Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Sexual Ealing on June 07, 2018, 12:10:37 AM
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https://twitter.com/StanCollymore/status/1004339679431483394
I've seen that people have referred to Stan Collymore's tweets on this subject on other threads but I thought this might deserve one of its own.
Is this in any way worth looking at? I have no idea whether it's a starter but on the surface it seems like an attractive proposition.
Do the numbers add up in any way?
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He posted this
https://youtu.be/_NBzoq-nNF4
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If it is in any way viable, then I doubt that it would be Collymore's vision that delivers it, but I'm interested in the principle in general.
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Anything involving him is an automatic no.
Apart from that it would still be a no, there's good reasons that Portsmouth are the biggest club in this country to have gone down that route and they sold up after a few years. For me it's one of those great ideas in principle that would be a nightmare in reality.
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Hodgson and Collymore touting themselves to run it no doubt.
No thanks.
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Hodgson and Collymore touting themselves to run it no doubt.
No thanks.
But isn't the point that credible executives are appointed in a sort of elected dictatorship for a defined period of time, voted in by the members/shareholders at various intervals. A sort of Mick Crow, rather than a HH busybody scenario?
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Anything involving him is an automatic no.
Apart from that it would still be a no, there's good reasons that Portsmouth are the biggest club in this country to have gone down that route and they sold up after a few years. For me it's one of those great ideas in principle that would be a nightmare in reality.
I think fan ownership at Portsmouth stabilised the club somewhat, but there was a recognition that they needed more financial muscle if they were to move the club on.
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While it seems like utopia on the surface, if you've spent 5 minutes on Twitter or Facebook reading Villa related posts and tweets you would understand why this would be so difficult. The conversation can become incredibly toxic even though we all have good intentions. Would there be necessary credentials for supporters or certain exclusions to avoid trolls?
In all honesty, if £2,500 got me in the door.. I'd ask the wife for permission.
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He posted this
https://youtu.be/_NBzoq-nNF4
Why would any one take any notice of some one that can’t be bothered to get out of bed to do a broadcast.
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Makes some extremely good and valid points. Think it was filmed in the early hours which is why SVC was in bed.
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Getting 40k attendance in division 6, will surely be a world record!
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Anything involving him is an automatic no.
Apart from that it would still be a no, there's good reasons that Portsmouth are the biggest club in this country to have gone down that route and they sold up after a few years. For me it's one of those great ideas in principle that would be a nightmare in reality.
I think fan ownership at Portsmouth stabilised the club somewhat, but there was a recognition that they needed more financial muscle if they were to move the club on.
Yep and that's my point, they did a good job of stabilising the club but that was in division 4 with attendances 3, 4 or 5x higher than anyone else had. As soon as they'd stabilised it they sold up. I just don't see how it's workable at a club the size of ours.
You only have to think of the disagreements on here, often about very trivial Villa stuff. And this is one of the best Villa places, if not the best, for quality of posters. And if anyone thinks that's an exaggeration just go and spend an hour so in Villa Facebook groups, Twitter etc. I didn't realise just how bad some of it was until I joined a few groups for watching Villa games live.
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Why not a fan ownership or part ownership of the ground and training ground and we then lease the ground to the owners. The crown jewels are then always safe
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We had fan ownership in the past.
Quite a few on here defended the great custodian when he ended it.
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Anything involving him is an automatic no.
Apart from that it would still be a no, there's good reasons that Portsmouth are the biggest club in this country to have gone down that route and they sold up after a few years. For me it's one of those great ideas in principle that would be a nightmare in reality.
I think fan ownership at Portsmouth stabilised the club somewhat, but there was a recognition that they needed more financial muscle if they were to move the club on.
Yep and that's my point, they did a good job of stabilising the club but that was in division 4 with attendances 3, 4 or 5x higher than anyone else had. As soon as they'd stabilised it they sold up. I just don't see how it's workable at a club the size of ours.
You only have to think of the disagreements on here, often about very trivial Villa stuff. And this is one of the best Villa places, if not the best, for quality of posters. And if anyone thinks that's an exaggeration just go and spend an hour so in Villa Facebook groups, Twitter etc. I didn't realise just how bad some of it was until I joined a few groups for watching Villa games live.
This a hundred times over! made me delete facebook off my phone. I had no idea we had such a large portion of morons following us. The one silver lining about not going up is that the rules change next seasn and every game is shown on AVFC. for the sake of £5 its worth paying so not to hear streamers burping, farting, letting their kids scream in the corner and arguing with their wives.
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Makes some extremely good and valid points. Think it was filmed in the early hours which is why SVC was in bed.
It was rambling and soporific, and it sent me to bed within two minutes. Fucking drone, drone...
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Hodgson and Collymore touting themselves to run it no doubt.
No thanks.
But isn't the point that credible executives are appointed in a sort of elected dictatorship for a defined period of time, voted in by the members/shareholders at various intervals. A sort of Mick Crow, rather than a HH busybody scenario?
Depends who'd stand, would be a lottery. Hard to control etc.
The Ebbsfleet United example worked well!
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I would contribute if it was viable. Someone, somewhere needs to make a stand against this kind of mis-management - we all moan about it, so why not try?
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Because it would be a massive clusterfuck that's why. We just need a fucking decent, hard headed, savvy, businessman surrounded by experienced football people FFS. He doesn't even need to be a billionaire if he knows what he's doing. Instead we get Lerner, the dumbest Billionaire in history followed by this fucking chancer.
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When Ellis was around it was said 34% was too much for one man and we needed fan ownership. A billionaire rolled up and those who shouted loudest for the Barcelona model then demanded he be given total control.
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Surely even a small % of fan ownership is better than fuck all? At least then there's more chance of transparency? This last week has really proved that owners can do what the fuck they like whilst they string their 'customers' along like fools.
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Surely even a small % of fan ownership is better than fuck all? At least then there's more chance of transparency? This last week has really proved that owners can do what the fuck they like whilst they string their 'customers' along like fools.
We had that when we were a PLC but giving total control to Lerner was the only way forward, apparently.
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I would contribute if it was viable. Someone, somewhere needs to make a stand against this kind of mis-management - we all moan about it, so why not try?
Agree - I would 100% throw myself in also
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Surely even a small % of fan ownership is better than fuck all? At least then there's more chance of transparency? This last week has really proved that owners can do what the fuck they like whilst they string their 'customers' along like fools.
We had that when we were a PLC but giving total control to Lerner was the only way forward, apparently.
I've still got my single, token Villa share. I refused to return it when Lerner took over and I had it framed. Pointless but it felt symbolic at the time.
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I am in.
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Surely even a small % of fan ownership is better than fuck all? At least then there's more chance of transparency? This last week has really proved that owners can do what the fuck they like whilst they string their 'customers' along like fools.
Would that mean an annual public grilling of the chairman by a relatively minor shareholder like the days when Buck Chinn used to give Doug a really hard time?
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Is Ian Taylor still an official ambassador of the club? We could really do with reaching out with people like him if we are SERIOUS about proposing this
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Surely even a small % of fan ownership is better than fuck all? At least then there's more chance of transparency? This last week has really proved that owners can do what the fuck they like whilst they string their 'customers' along like fools.
We had that when we were a PLC but giving total control to Lerner was the only way forward, apparently.
One of the issues I see Dave with this model is lets say 20% of the club is owned by fans; given Xia was pumping x million in every month to keep the club afloat it's difficult to see the supporters who own the club pumping in 20% every month.
(I understand that's not the only aspect and facet of fan ownership but given the current issues is a pertinent one)
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collymore is worth £35 million . Thats a good start to throw in.
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Makes some extremely good and valid points. Think it was filmed in the early hours which is why SVC was in bed.
It was rambling and soporific, and it sent me to bed within two minutes. Fucking drone, drone...
Hahaha! Pop the video in your Youtube Library playlist folder and mark it Insomnia ;-) As we lurch from one crisis to another, passed from one supposed billionaire to another, at least you'll have something to help you sleep.
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Surely even a small % of fan ownership is better than fuck all? At least then there's more chance of transparency? This last week has really proved that owners can do what the fuck they like whilst they string their 'customers' along like fools.
We had that when we were a PLC but giving total control to Lerner was the only way forward, apparently.
There were a few of us on here swimming against the tide.
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Surely even a small % of fan ownership is better than fuck all? At least then there's more chance of transparency? This last week has really proved that owners can do what the fuck they like whilst they string their 'customers' along like fools.
We had that when we were a PLC but giving total control to Lerner was the only way forward, apparently.
There were a few of us on here swimming against the tide.
The only tangible difference is that with the Plc you got to go to the AGM and shout at the chairman. You can save the petrol and do that on Twitter now.
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Surely even a small % of fan ownership is better than fuck all? At least then there's more chance of transparency? This last week has really proved that owners can do what the fuck they like whilst they string their 'customers' along like fools.
We had that when we were a PLC but giving total control to Lerner was the only way forward, apparently.
One of the issues I see Dave with this model is lets say 20% of the club is owned by fans; given Xia was pumping x million in every month to keep the club afloat it's difficult to see the supporters who own the club pumping in 20% every month.
(I understand that's not the only aspect and facet of fan ownership but given the current issues is a pertinent one)
Companies the world over cope with this every day without issue.
Cash can be loaned or injected in return for equity. If the shareholders don't all invest they get diluted. But in theory the value of of their investment remains the same, ie a smaller share of a bigger pie.
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Surely even a small % of fan ownership is better than fuck all? At least then there's more chance of transparency? This last week has really proved that owners can do what the fuck they like whilst they string their 'customers' along like fools.
We had that when we were a PLC but giving total control to Lerner was the only way forward, apparently.
There were a few of us on here swimming against the tide.
The only tangible difference is that with the Plc you got to go to the AGM and shout at the chairman. You can save the petrol and do that on Twitter now.
Agreed but at least there is due process and they have to answer.
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Surely even a small % of fan ownership is better than fuck all? At least then there's more chance of transparency? This last week has really proved that owners can do what the fuck they like whilst they string their 'customers' along like fools.
We had that when we were a PLC but giving total control to Lerner was the only way forward, apparently.
One of the issues I see Dave with this model is lets say 20% of the club is owned by fans; given Xia was pumping x million in every month to keep the club afloat it's difficult to see the supporters who own the club pumping in 20% every month.
(I understand that's not the only aspect and facet of fan ownership but given the current issues is a pertinent one)
Companies the world over cope with this every day without issue.
Cash can be loaned or injected in return for equity. If the shareholders don't all invest they get diluted. But in theory the value of of their investment remains the same, ie a smaller share of a bigger pie.
I agree to an extent Oldhill but there are a few differences between a football club and other companies.
If I'd bought shares in a company and then didn't like the direction they were going in ethically I could just sell my shares. As a supporter of the club would I sell my shares if I didn't like the choice of manager. The list of minority investors in a football club is likely to be limited to fans only.
It's also likely that any power of voice that the fans have as owners is reduced when their share of the pie gets smaller and smaller.
Although looking at the German 50+1 model there is nothing I guess to stop the larger investors pumping more cash into the club and then recouping this more more fans over time using a crowd funding approach.
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Surely even a small % of fan ownership is better than fuck all? At least then there's more chance of transparency? This last week has really proved that owners can do what the fuck they like whilst they string their 'customers' along like fools.
We had that when we were a PLC but giving total control to Lerner was the only way forward, apparently.
I've still got my single, token Villa share. I refused to return it when Lerner took over and I had it framed. Pointless but it felt symbolic at the time.
I kept mine too but no idea where it is.
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Surely even a small % of fan ownership is better than fuck all? At least then there's more chance of transparency? This last week has really proved that owners can do what the fuck they like whilst they string their 'customers' along like fools.
We had that when we were a PLC but giving total control to Lerner was the only way forward, apparently.
I've still got my single, token Villa share. I refused to return it when Lerner took over and I had it framed. Pointless but it felt symbolic at the time.
Same here. It's framed too.
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‘Fan Ownership’? Maybe we can all buy shares in Legion
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I tend to agree with PWS and his early quotes on this thread. Fan ownership tends to only work as a short term, emergency measure and has a better chance of succeeding at the lower levels where the cash involved is a hell of a lot less than at the top level. By top level I am referring to the Premier league and Championship.
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The model seems to work in Germany but then it’s binding on all clubs there.
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Surely even a small % of fan ownership is better than fuck all? At least then there's more chance of transparency? This last week has really proved that owners can do what the fuck they like whilst they string their 'customers' along like fools.
We had that when we were a PLC but giving total control to Lerner was the only way forward, apparently.
I've still got my single, token Villa share. I refused to return it when Lerner took over and I had it framed. Pointless but it felt symbolic at the time.
Same here. It's framed too.
Yep, I've still got mine as well.
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The model seems to work in Germany but then it’s binding on all clubs there.
Yes, even though Bayern Munich's professional football club is a commercial "AG" (PLC), 75% of the shares are owned by the Bayern Munich "e.V." which is a registered club: a "club" in this sense is something specific but not easy to translate into English terms, Wikipedia calls it a voluntary association. So the members of this club basically own 75% of the Bayern football team and as far as I know anyone is free to join. Incidentally, the e.V. also includes basketball, handball and chess amongst others.
And speaking of well-run, Bayern have operated at a profit for the last 25 years I think, and their turnover is dominated by commercial revenue ie not totally dependant on broadcasting.
In an ideal world, if Villa were to be sustainable, wages should be covered by commercial and matchday revenue. TV and prize money could be used for transfers or infrastructural investments.
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Surely even a small % of fan ownership is better than fuck all? At least then there's more chance of transparency? This last week has really proved that owners can do what the fuck they like whilst they string their 'customers' along like fools.
We had that when we were a PLC but giving total control to Lerner was the only way forward, apparently.
I've still got my single, token Villa share. I refused to return it when Lerner took over and I had it framed. Pointless but it felt symbolic at the time.
Same here. It's framed too.
Yep, I've still got mine as well.
I've got mine - but think I sent it in to get my money back and they returned it to me once it was cancelled - so I have got it framed.
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What would it cost to buy Villa Park and "a" training ground (doesnt have to be Bodymoor Heath). It seems to me that a possible way for fans to have a stake in the club is to buy out its buildings and develop them for fan benefit , charge the team to use them. That way prices can be set to maximise attendance. The ground could also be used for concerts etc to supplement income.
Does the land the ground occupy hold significant value - its not really prime real estate. How much would it realistically be and is now a good opportunity as it looks like the team need the hard cash.
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I've still got my single, token Villa share. I refused to return it when Lerner took over and I had it framed. Pointless but it felt symbolic at the time.
Ha, me too- still hanging on the dining room wall at my dad's house :) Would never sell my part of the Villa, not for all the money in the world.
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What would it cost to buy Villa Park and "a" training ground (doesnt have to be Bodymoor Heath). It seems to me that a possible way for fans to have a stake in the club is to buy out its buildings and develop them for fan benefit , charge the team to use them. That way prices can be set to maximise attendance. The ground could also be used for concerts etc to supplement income.
Does the land the ground occupy hold significant value - its not really prime real estate. How much would it realistically be and is now a good opportunity as it looks like the team need the hard cash.
The bank hold the title over the ground.
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So we buy the bank, job done.
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Fan ownership surely can't do any worse than the last and current imbecile in charge? Again, Xia, has chosen to run the club remotely and not kept his eye on the ball. Directors at the club are mainly faceless and above all, useless.
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Fan ownership surely can't do any worse than the last and current imbecile in charge?
They could and probably would.
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Let say 100,000,000 for asking price. with say 50,000 fans and that is 2,000 each person. I don't think it is doable. or 10,000 each for 10,000 fans. Maybe Barcelona/Real Madrid Club membership policies might be a better idea.
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I think if (in a parallel universe) I'd been a successful businessman and made a nine figure or greater fortune, or achieved the same outcome by having an extraordinary talent in, say, music, if I'd bought a football club and then watched some waste of space like Micah Richards or Gabby Agbon sponge three million a year in return for very little then I'd possibly be feeling rather aggrieved. A fool and his money are easily parted, and all that.
I think I've concluded that the only people who buy football clubs in the modern era are fools and chancers.