Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: robleflaneur on January 07, 2018, 02:31:52 PM
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Early this season I expressed the view that Adomah wasn't good enough for a promotion chasing team.Clearly I was wrong and I think in general we tend to be a bit too dismissive of the squad's quality.Hogg and Lowton were reserves in struggling Villa sides but both have gained promotion to the Premiership with their teams.Other reserves,Lichaj (Forest),Johnson and Robinson (Preston)are prospering in this league.Of our acquisitions in the
Championship,no one doubts the quality of Johnstone,Chester,Terry and Adomah ! Have to exclude Kodjia through injury.Of the others ,Elmo,Elphick,Taylor ,De Laet and Lansbury (twice ,with Norwich and West Ham)have also been players in teams getting promoted to the Premiership.And the rest,Onomah ,U21 international and has represented England at every age group,Bjarnason ,a member of succesful Iceland and Basel teams and has also played in Serie A.Hourihane..Barnsley's best player and winning accolades as one of the best midfielders in the league.Hogan,a better than 1 in 2 goal ratio at Brentford.Jedinak does what it says on the tin and captain of a WC qualifying team.Steer,excellent back up keeper and Bree as a teenager was a regular in the Championship.Whelan,back up for Jedinak.Add to that Hutton,Grealish and some promising youngsters.
Yes,we can rightly criticise individuals,count me in if you want to have a go at Taylor but this squad should be more than capable of achieving promotion.
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I forgot Snodgrass,another who gained promotion with his club.
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Individually, the players should be but collectively not due to the tactics, style and approach to management by all involved in the coaching role.
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We won the last game 5-0 against promotion rivals and we had important players unavailable. The squad is easily good enough, they just have to believe it themselves.
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The squad is good enough. You don't usually swap it so much (ten players) so one or two coming in ought to be good enough.
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Hard to say without the right coaching/tactics
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The squad is plenty good enough.
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The squad is plenty good enough.
Unfortunately the manager and coaching staff aren't
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The squad is plenty good enough.
Unfortunately the manager and coaching staff aren't
This.
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The squad is plenty good enough.
Unfortunately the manager and coaching staff aren't
You might need to qualify that, as he's got 4 to his name.
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If Bruce is able to remove the shackles of his own conservatism, caution and sense of a martyr syndrome then he and the squad are more than good enough for promotion. He's shown it sporadically, but given the quality of the league isn't outstanding we have enough about us to get 2nd place. The challenge for Bruce will always be tactically bold, to let us play and be expressive. Something that long term will be his undoing.
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I certainly would't have said his end of last season but yes depending on Adomah and Grealish. Take these two out of the equation and I doubt it.
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I'd say Hogan and the January loanee striker are the most critical.
If the new 4141 system with the pace we played it at against Bristol City is a sign of what's to come, then Hogan has a chance if getting 12-15 goals. If he does that, we will finish 2nd.
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Yes.
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The squad is plenty good enough.
Unfortunately the manager and coaching staff aren't
You might need to qualify that, as he's got 4 to his name.
Are you Bruce in again or still out? Not taking the piss, genuinely interested.
In response to the OP, we have the strongest squad in the league. Wolves have more individual flair but we really should be second place at worst by the end of the season. Anything less and Bruce hasn't done a good enough job.
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Boro and Bristol surprised me. I thought we were looking at another run like last January. I didn't think we were capable of a result like Bristol or a performance or rather we weren't capable of unleashing the overwhelming quality we have.
So who knows. We ought to win the next 4.
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Rowett to Stoke would help.
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Yes. Rowett to us would be even better
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Manager holding us back due to lack of flair. Squad needs a firing Kodjia to go up. Let's see what the window brings.
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To get promoted? Yes.
To stay up? No.
This team is solid and built on some excellent loans and high quality veterans who are in their swansong. If we go up we absolutely need to sign better players in each of those positions.
Bruce should be getting credit for assembling a promotion worthy squad out of loans and older players, as well as blame if he doesnt do it.
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To get promoted? Yes.
To stay up? No.
Completely agree.
This team is solid and built on some excellent loans and high quality veterans who are in their swansong. If we go up we absolutely need to sign better players in each of those positions.
Bruce should be getting credit for assembling a promotion worthy squad out of loans and older players, as well as blame if he doesnt do it.
Can't quite agree with this part - assembling a promotion worthy squad out of loans and older players? He spent £15m on Hogan, and considerable fees by Championship standards for Lansbury, Hourihane, Bjarnason etc.
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Watford got promoted with a team full of loans and made wholesale changes since going up. We have a decent core, and Xia has already indicated we’ll have to spend a good amount once up. My concern is giving that responsibility to Bruce.
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My concern is the balance of the squad, especially taking into account injuries. Spoilt for choice in some areas of the pitch and not so in others.
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I maintain that Bruce will be gone at the end of the season regardless. Either failure if we're still here or thanks if we go up. Tony will want a new beginning.
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Yes.
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I maintain that Bruce will be gone at the end of the season regardless. Either failure if we're still here or thanks if we go up. Tony will want a new beginning.
Not a hope in hell of Bruce walking out on this job if he gets us up in May, nor will Xia sack him. Bruce has been waiting for a job like Villa all his career and he’s gonna fight tooth and nail to keep it. The only way he’ll leave is If we struggle in the PL next season and he gets sacked. Other than that is just fantasy stuff.
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I maintain that Bruce will be gone at the end of the season regardless. Either failure if we're still here or thanks if we go up. Tony will want a new beginning.
Not a hope in hell of Bruce walking out on this job if he gets us up in May, nor will Xia sack him. Bruce has been waiting for a job like Villa all his career and he’s gonna fight tooth and nail to keep it. The only way he’ll leave is If we struggle in the PL next season and he gets sacked. Other than that is just fantasy stuff.
Yep completely agree. My concern is who are the types of player will he bring to the club, and he will have money to spend. We will at the very best be a mid table side in the PL if all things go well, but it will be a slog at times. I just don't trust Bruce to be the man to buy the players or long term be the manager. But there's no chance at all he'll be fired if we go up.
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I maintain that Bruce will be gone at the end of the season regardless. Either failure if we're still here or thanks if we go up. Tony will want a new beginning.
Not a hope in hell of Bruce walking out on this job if he gets us up in May, nor will Xia sack him. Bruce has been waiting for a job like Villa all his career and he’s gonna fight tooth and nail to keep it. The only way he’ll leave is If we struggle in the PL next season and he gets sacked. Other than that is just fantasy stuff.
Yep completely agree. My concern is who are the types of player will he bring to the club, and he will have money to spend. We will at the very best be a mid table side in the PL if all things go well, but it will be a slog at times. I just don't trust Bruce to be the man to buy the players or long term be the manager. But there's no chance at all he'll be fired if we go up.
I want him to get us up and put some firm foundations down in the PL. He’s a limited manager, he’s, but there’s not many others out there with a better record of getting teams out of this league.
Basically what I’m saying is that we should worry about the PL when we get there, not now.
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A sign of our squads depth tonight was that Lansbury was Forests best player when we played them last year, but tonight he was never likely to get off our bench. We're one of a few teams good enough for promotion and should at least get into the play offs. I've got a feeling we might even be able to reel Cardiff and Derby in. But we'd be in deep shit in the premier league.
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The squad is certainly enough to get promoted, obviously we will need strengthening IF and WHEN we get there and we will. What we have to do is get there first and then we can concern ourselves about the future.
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We are addressing some of our issues as we go and will make the play offs with ease in the end I think. Derby are very strong though so 2nd is beyond us I think. If we go up, we need 6 first team and in my opinion 8 be faces in total, all better than what we have.
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If we're promoted we'll need to sign a keeper, a centre back, a defensive midfielder, and 2 wide players as a minimum and we'd probably want 2-3 more on top of that. That's just replacing the loans and the guys who's legs had gone at that level before we signed them.
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We are addressing some of our issues as we go and will make the play offs with ease in the end I think. Derby are very strong though so 2nd is beyond us I think. If we go up, we need 6 first team and in my opinion 8 be faces in total, all better than what we have.
It’s 5 points Ozz and Derby’s recent run will end at some point. They won’t keep winning. We have to ensure we pick up points if they don’t and especially when they visit Villa Park.
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We are addressing some of our issues as we go and will make the play offs with ease in the end I think. Derby are very strong though so 2nd is beyond us I think. If we go up, we need 6 first team and in my opinion 8 be faces in total, all better than what we have.
What are they, 5 points ahead with 19 games to play? We have to play them at Villa Park as well. They’re well catchable.
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The current top three are Wolves, Derby and Cardiff, all of whom have to come to Villa Park. Let's see how many points we can take from those fixtures.
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We are addressing some of our issues as we go and will make the play offs with ease in the end I think. Derby are very strong though so 2nd is beyond us I think. If we go up, we need 6 first team and in my opinion 8 be faces in total, all better than what we have.
It’s 5 points Ozz and Derby’s recent run will end at some point. They won’t keep winning. We have to ensure we pick up points if they don’t and especially when they visit Villa Park.
We are capable of throwing in some proper shitty results though. December, and the start of the season. I can see us having another 3-4 game winless spell. Derby I can't, they look well set up and have some good experience through the side. Cardiff will fall away further I am sure, but Derby will go up with Wolves.
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We are addressing some of our issues as we go and will make the play offs with ease in the end I think. Derby are very strong though so 2nd is beyond us I think. If we go up, we need 6 first team and in my opinion 8 be faces in total, all better than what we have.
It’s 5 points Ozz and Derby’s recent run will end at some point. They won’t keep winning. We have to ensure we pick up points if they don’t and especially when they visit Villa Park.
We are capable of throwing in some proper shitty results though. December, and the start of the season. I can see us having another 3-4 game winless spell. Derby I can't, they look well set up and have some good experience through the side. Cardiff will fall away further I am sure, but Derby will go up with Wolves.
Well the proof will be in the pudding of course but Derby must also be capable of some shitty results because if they weren’t then they wouldn’t be just 5 points in front of us.
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I think it’s easy to be inwardly critical but the fact that despite some very unconvincing results this season we are sitting in 4th, 5 points off second suggests either we aren’t as bad as we might think and others (maybe Wolves aside) aren’t as good we think. All teams will drop points, us and Derby very much included. Over the next 19 games we need to drop 6 less than them. It’s far from impossible.
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I think you're both missing the context for Derby, They had a bad start, little better than we had last season in fact. Since the start of October they've been almost as consistent as Wolves.
They may well have another run like that but I think they're quite clearly the favourites for 2nd right now. If they keep their form up then what we really should be aiming for is to stop the gap getting wider before we play them, if we're in touching distance then that game becomes a genuine must-win.
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I think it’s easy to be inwardly critical but the fact that despite some very unconvincing results this season we are sitting in 4th, 5 points off second suggests either we aren’t as bad as we might think and others (maybe Wolves aside) aren’t as good we think. All teams will drop points, us and Derby very much included. Over the next 19 games we need to drop 6 less than them. It’s far from impossible.
Derby are capable of spending a few quid this month with Chris Martin likely to leave.
You would have to think Rowett got some assurance regarding transfers for knocking back Stoke's interest.
Cardiff got back to winning ways today but you would have to think/hope they will keep falling back to the pack.
Really should be Wolves, Derby and ourselves pushing forward until the end of the season.
Fulham on a bit of a charge of late, their manager was threatening to leave not too long ago...
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I think you're both missing the context for Derby, They had a bad start, little better than we had last season in fact. Since the start of October they've been almost as consistent as Wolves.
They may well have another run like that but I think they're quite clearly the favourites for 2nd right now. If they keep their form up then what we really should be aiming for is to stop the gap getting wider before we play them, if we're in touching distance then that game becomes a genuine must-win.
Exactly. They have been very good for about 3 months now. They are also exceptionally good away from home, won 6 and drawn 2 of the last 8 away I think. Maybe they have had an easy run of it and they have a sticky run of fixtures to come, but they look pretty daunting form wise.
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I think you're both missing the context for Derby, They had a bad start, little better than we had last season in fact. Since the start of October they've been almost as consistent as Wolves.
They may well have another run like that but I think they're quite clearly the favourites for 2nd right now. If they keep their form up then what we really should be aiming for is to stop the gap getting wider before we play them, if we're in touching distance then that game becomes a genuine must-win.
Exactly. They have been very good for about 3 months now. They are also exceptionally good away from home, won 6 and drawn 2 of the last 8 away I think. Maybe they have had an easy run of it and they have a sticky run of fixtures to come, but they look pretty daunting form wise.
Annoying that we lost at their place as we would now be above them if we’d won. And although we didn’t play well I don’t think they were much to shout about. Our squad is better but I suspect their manager is better
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They're exceptionally good, but beat them at Villa Park and it's down to two points difference.
In the 17 games between now and then there will be some more ebb and flow.