Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: wittonwarrior on December 18, 2017, 05:13:14 PM

Title: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: wittonwarrior on December 18, 2017, 05:13:14 PM
Not all complimentary towards the police, but the main aspect was them having to deal with proper numpties bloose fans.

Surely the way forward if we play them next season would be to get the villa fans out first.  Food for thought though if we are again in the same division
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: Breezeblock on December 18, 2017, 06:05:52 PM
Link to the documentary (https://www.theguardian.com/football/video/2017/dec/18/football-fans-and-the-police-birmingham-city-aston-villa-video)

West midlands finest do not come out of that at all well.  I fail to see the logic of keeping the away fans (us, in this case) in. Surely the diminished numbers of away fans bent on causing trouble would be easier to police/disperse than the larger number of home fans bent on mayhem. As this video shows >:(
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: Fasth56 on December 18, 2017, 06:30:08 PM
What can you expect when this is the Blose reaction from SHA board, theey really are thick bastards, one bloke even blaming the police for being there.

https://www.that lot.com/read.php?1,2381412

Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: Ads on December 18, 2017, 06:39:03 PM
Very good policing from Bladen apparently.

He's a happy Dingle at the moment.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: Dougs Socks on December 18, 2017, 06:56:13 PM
What can you expect when this is the Blose reaction from SHA board, theey really are thick bastards, one bloke even blaming the police for being there.

https://www.that lot.com/read.php?1,2381412


Lets be honest, if they would of let us out, they would of been doing what they usually do, running away and hiding in the local supermarket. They are that thick, they actually believe the horse shit they are fed. I mean, they own the city lol. Wankers, each and every one them, and they know it too!
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: Ads on December 18, 2017, 07:07:55 PM
Hardmen wrapped in Burberry squealing like piggies when they're nicked. "My ribs!"
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: Dougs Socks on December 18, 2017, 07:11:22 PM
Hardmen wrapped in Burberry squealing like piggies when they're nicked. "My ribs!"


Haha! Know how that feels to my embarrasment! :-[
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: wittonwarrior on December 18, 2017, 10:04:56 PM
First of all how the heck have the police allowed this video to be broadcast.  Shows they didn't have a scooby.  Bladen appears to be a decent fella but he lacks any real say, that I think is obvious. 

As for the opposition.  There must be some decent bloose fans somewhere.  Appears that most inner city clubs have similar issues.  I am just happy that we are different. 
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: saunders_heroes on December 18, 2017, 11:12:34 PM
Link to the documentary (https://www.theguardian.com/football/video/2017/dec/18/football-fans-and-the-police-birmingham-city-aston-villa-video)

West midlands finest do not come out of that at all well.  I fail to see the logic of keeping the away fans (us, in this case) in. Surely the diminished numbers of away fans bent on causing trouble would be easier to police/disperse than the larger number of home fans bent on mayhem. As this video shows >:(

The only people to come out of that video badly are the Noses who deliberately stuck around looking for trouble. One copper described them as “animals”. It says it all really.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: Ad@m on December 18, 2017, 11:39:40 PM
First of all how the heck have the police allowed this video to be broadcast.  Shows they didn't have a scooby.  Bladen appears to be a decent fella but he lacks any real say, that I think is obvious. 

As for the opposition.  There must be some decent bloose fans somewhere.  Appears that most inner city clubs have similar issues.  I am just happy that we are different. 

All clubs have their dickhead fans - the Villa are no different.

Football would generally be better if fans concentrated on what they had in common rather than trying to beat the shit out of each other.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: tomd2103 on December 19, 2017, 12:36:19 AM
What can you expect when this is the Blose reaction from SHA board, theey really are thick bastards, one bloke even blaming the police for being there.

https://www.that lot.com/read.php?1,2381412


Lets be honest, if they would of let us out, they would of been doing what they usually do, running away and hiding in the local supermarket. They are that thick, they actually believe the horse shit they are fed. I mean, they own the city lol. Wankers, each and every one them, and they know it too!

If they had let the Villa fans out, you would have had innocent football fans being pelted with bottles and rocks in the way the police were. 
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 19, 2017, 12:48:06 AM
Not if they'd let us out first. We would have been gone in ten minutes and then their fans could have been released. Far better than making Villa fans wait two hours.

At the very least, they should be warned, via the media, the programme and their website, that failure to disperse in an orderly and prompt manner after the game will result in them being kept behind after future derbies.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: Pete3206 on December 19, 2017, 01:06:20 AM
What as disgraceful bunch of half wits.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: itbrvilla on December 19, 2017, 09:10:03 AM
The bit on 15:10 you can see a bloser picking up the sand bag off the road sign to use as a weapon.

We know they have a high percentage of arseholes but we were right up there for arrests at football matches http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42095049 (I know we a have larger crowds which skews it slightly).  They are not all bad and I'm sure most of us on here have family and friends who support them who are just normal people and football supporters. 
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 19, 2017, 10:32:27 AM
Of course, they're not all bad. I can't understand those that want to stay behind in the cold for an hour or more just to shout at some people for five minutes.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: Risso on December 19, 2017, 10:53:07 AM
Absolute sub-human vermin.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: tomd2103 on December 19, 2017, 10:54:30 AM
Not if they'd let us out first. We would have been gone in ten minutes and then their fans could have been released. Far better than making Villa fans wait two hours.

At the very least, they should be warned, via the media, the programme and their website, that failure to disperse in an orderly and prompt manner after the game will result in them being kept behind after future derbies.

I can see where you are coming from, but I'm guessing the mentality of those involved would mean they would just skip the game and still turn up after anyway. 
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on December 19, 2017, 11:12:36 AM
Fat people in shit clothes.

Have they no shame? You'd have thought they'd have made some sort of style statement if they wanted to show Villa fans where the balance of power lies in Brum.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 19, 2017, 11:24:09 AM
Not if they'd let us out first. We would have been gone in ten minutes and then their fans could have been released. Far better than making Villa fans wait two hours.

At the very least, they should be warned, via the media, the programme and their website, that failure to disperse in an orderly and prompt manner after the game will result in them being kept behind after future derbies.

I can see where you are coming from, but I'm guessing the mentality of those involved would mean they would just skip the game and still turn up after anyway.

I don't think so. Maybe a small, easy to disperse, minority.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: Dougs Socks on December 19, 2017, 11:57:53 AM
What can you expect when this is the Blose reaction from SHA board, theey really are thick bastards, one bloke even blaming the police for being there.

https://www.that lot.com/read.php?1,2381412



Lets be honest, if they would of let us out, they would of been doing what they usually do, running away and hiding in the local supermarket. They are that thick, they actually believe the horse shit they are fed. I mean, they own the city lol. Wankers, each and every one them, and they know it too!

If they had let the Villa fans out, you would have had innocent football fans being pelted with bottles and rocks in the way the police were.







I know >:(

Think the Police do the best they can, and any decision they make will upset somebody. As for the Troglodytes, picking on women and kids or lone fans in town, is the norm for them. Then proudly posting on their scummy sites how they ran the Vile.

Luckily, they wont be around for quite a while after this season 8)
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: London Villan on December 19, 2017, 12:05:20 PM
A constant shower of ice cold water would curb their enthusiasm, they'd soon get bored.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: Ad@m on December 19, 2017, 12:19:06 PM
A constant shower of ice cold water would curb their enthusiasm, they'd soon get bored.

You're advocating water cannon being used on football fans?!
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: chrisw1 on December 19, 2017, 12:31:13 PM
A constant shower of ice cold water would curb their enthusiasm, they'd soon get bored.

You're advocating water cannon being used on football fans?!
'Fans' no.  People who wait for an hour to hurl abuse and objects at innocent human beings?  Absolutely.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: in exile on December 19, 2017, 01:46:03 PM
Fat people in shit clothes...

You called?
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: Ad@m on December 19, 2017, 02:30:14 PM
A constant shower of ice cold water would curb their enthusiasm, they'd soon get bored.

You're advocating water cannon being used on football fans?!
'Fans' no.  People who wait for an hour to hurl abuse and objects at innocent human beings?  Absolutely.

Water cannon aren't the most discriminate of weapons.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: Des Little on December 19, 2017, 02:54:24 PM
The lads that waited over an hour for us to get let out & hurled bricks at police weren't waiting to exchange scarves.  Please don't confuse them with football fans.  They should be treated like any mob looking to cause disorder; if that means water cannons, so be it. 
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 19, 2017, 03:05:25 PM
Where will these water cannon come from?
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on December 19, 2017, 03:07:03 PM
Where will these water cannon come from?

Did Boris Johnson manage to flog the one he bought to use on Londoners a few years ago?
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 19, 2017, 03:08:20 PM
Where will these water cannon come from?

Did Boris Johnson manage to flog the one he bought to use on Londoners a few years ago?

At a loss, I believe.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: Ads on December 19, 2017, 03:09:18 PM
It would be quite amusing for comedy value.

Load of idiots giving it the pogo bounce shouting come on. Police vans part and a cannon hoses them all the way down the Coventry Road. "Me ribs, me ribs!" Only this time it would be us out of laughter.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: West Derby Villan on December 19, 2017, 04:38:05 PM
Where will these water cannon come from?


Water cannon r us ?
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: Dougs Socks on December 19, 2017, 04:44:04 PM

Sod the Water Cannon...a 50 Cal mounted on the top of riot van would be more apt lol
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: London Villan on December 19, 2017, 04:51:44 PM
I've no idea where they would come from, but soaked to the bone in freezing cold water (not even from water canon) would motivate a lot of idiots to go home.

Not ideal, but how would you suggest breaking up a 100 strong mob that are forcing 2000 football fans to be held against their will for hours?
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: ColinMac on December 19, 2017, 05:03:11 PM
I've no idea where they would come from, but soaked to the bone in freezing cold water (not even from water canon) would motivate a lot of idiots to go home.

Not ideal, but how would you suggest breaking up a 100 strong mob that are forcing 2000 football fans to be held against their will for hours?

Maybe i would do what was suggested in the video and start dispersing them as soon as the first few congregated, deal with the issue as soon as it starts.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: wittonwarrior on December 19, 2017, 05:40:42 PM
What the vid fails to relate is after waiting for the gates to open those of us who had to get back to the city centre were no safer than if we had been let out immediately- I just said to two youngsters who were frightened just come with me and hide your colours. For sure a bit of a cock up by wmp.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: Holte132 on December 19, 2017, 06:21:01 PM
They are saying that we keep phoning the police asking to be kept behind safely at the derby games!
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: cheltenhamlion on December 19, 2017, 06:43:48 PM
They are saying that we keep phoning the police asking to be kept behind safely at the derby games!

I don't like any glamourising of football violence. It is fucking stupid and I don't appreciate it when we sink to their level and people start posting nonsense about who is the hardest or took most liberties.

I do take particular umbrage with them and this bollocks though because it has become yet another myth of their own creation.

Whether that be that they are somehow singled out for poor treatment by the Police (presumably whilst we are chauffeured to our armour plated Land Rovers for a trip back to the countryside) or we are all so scared of even meeting one of them that we persistently call for protection from the army, what grinds my gears as how many of their fans you hear repeat this sort of thing as fact.

I am quite happy to walk out of any ground on 90 minutes and mingle with the opposition. Where it becomes an issue is where you persistently get hundreds of fucking idiots, standing round in the cold, throwing shit at the Police because they can't throw it our fans instead.

That so many revel in this being proof positive of an achievement da Vile cant match (and that includes otherwise quite pleasant and rational people) really does boggle the mind.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: russon on December 19, 2017, 07:03:29 PM
Where will these water cannon come from?
Water cannon r us ?
That the shop next door to Toys Am We?
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: jcsutv on December 19, 2017, 07:28:00 PM
The main blues fan the camera followed waited an hour and a half as he didn't know another way to his car from the ground. Says it all.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: cdbearsfan on December 19, 2017, 07:44:42 PM
In fairness, it's difficult to remember the way when you only attend matches once a season.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: luke95 on December 19, 2017, 08:35:37 PM
The main blues fan the camera followed waited an hour and a half as he didn't know another way to his car from the ground. Says it all.

He's an ex copper & wasn't it him who kicked up a bit of fuss over the police being a bit over the top on some blues outside?
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: Ads on December 19, 2017, 08:46:28 PM
I imagine he was was asked to wait to provide comment on the plod.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: stuart445 on December 19, 2017, 09:03:47 PM
A constant shower of ice cold water would curb their enthusiasm, they'd soon get bored.

That's out of order, you know having a wash is against their beliefs.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: PeterWithe on December 19, 2017, 10:52:22 PM
Given the state of the polyester clad fannies at the bottom of the road they should be glad the lads don’t get the tickets anymore.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: Dublin Villa on December 20, 2017, 07:54:35 AM
You could argue remove the police and majority of the disorder would disappear as the mouthy pavement dancers would run home, but the danger is always that  innocent fans who go for the football and do not have any  affinity to firms or football violence would be attacked as was often the case in the past.

The whole video was  ugly though.  2000 Villa fans falsely imprisoned because  a few hundred tnucs wouldn't go home. 

Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: Ads on December 20, 2017, 09:14:15 AM
I think the Prof. has it right, by waiting for them to gather you create a them and us. The police should have been scattered throughout the road asking people to move on in a none confrontational way, maybe even a van slowly driving up and down to force people to move. "Busses that way lads. Pubs in Digbeth are open, its only £2.80 pint" rather than "move or we will kosh you".

You tend to find that if you treat fans like animals you get the reaction you appear to seek.

Bladen does a good job as he's affable and approachable and comes across as a normal bloke even if he is in fancy dress. I can understand Sgt Wilkinson being a bit miffed as he's suffered two bumps to the head, but if your preconceived notion is the Noses are animals then its not helpful.

He knows full well that what he was facing wasn't their firm and that there wasn't a single Category C individual among them, so the real "animals" were drinking elsewhere. Just kids in bad designer clothes that ought to have been handled differently to disperse.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: Brend'Watkins on December 20, 2017, 10:27:30 AM
The thing is there weren't that many of them.  Most normal fans had made their way home or to town.  Had the Villa been let out sooner that lot would have scarpered pretty quickly.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: Canadian Villa on December 20, 2017, 08:38:28 PM
A constant shower of ice cold water would curb their enthusiasm, they'd soon get bored.

What about a large water pistol?

You're advocating water cannon being used on football fans?!
'Fans' no.  People who wait for an hour to hurl abuse and objects at innocent human beings?  Absolutely.

Water cannon aren't the most discriminate of weapons.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: Canadian Villa on December 20, 2017, 08:43:23 PM
What can you expect when this is the Blose reaction from SHA board, theey really are thick bastards, one bloke even blaming the police for being there.

https://www.that lot.com/read.php?1,2381412



It pains me to say that the majority of the poster on that thread seem decent. i'm off for a shower, or can someone shoot a water cannon at me.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: LeeB on December 20, 2017, 08:43:26 PM
Imagine the residue left behind if you blasted that lot with water cannons. They’d probably have to put a concrete lid over the site like they did with Chernobyl.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: Damo70 on December 20, 2017, 11:31:43 PM
Give them a cheap clapper toy, let them watch the club they are obsessed with for ninety minutes and then wash them down with a water cannon. It's a Small Heathen's dream day out.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: BC54 VFC on December 20, 2017, 11:53:17 PM
The main blues fan the camera followed waited an hour and a half as he didn't know another way to his car from the ground. Says it all.
The blonde who was with him has a very nice arse.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: The Left Side on December 21, 2017, 02:56:05 AM
The main blues fan the camera followed waited an hour and a half as he didn't know another way to his car from the ground. Says it all.
The blonde who was with him has a very nice arse.

Was that his daughter?
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: cheltenhamlion on December 21, 2017, 08:22:15 AM
The main blues fan the camera followed waited an hour and a half as he didn't know another way to his car from the ground. Says it all.
The blonde who was with him has a very nice arse.

Was that his daughter?

Yes.
Title: Re: Behind the scenes at the Birmingham derby - guardian online video
Post by: Walmley_Villa on December 21, 2017, 05:05:55 PM
The only problems I gather were round the Eagle and Tun and Millennium Point when the police left the Villa fans to it. The only issue in holding in the Villa fans is that the Blues that want to cause trouble will just leave earlier. Imagine we were winning comfortably, they would all of left already.
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