Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on September 19, 2017, 09:30:02 PM
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It's over now...
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Winning trophies is overrated and so last century. And I guess we won't be taking the piss out of sha for their LC attendances for a while.
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Pathetic, completely changing the line up was suicude. As said on another thread it could also lead to a divide in the squad that won't help build a team spirit. It's not the result tonight, it's the utter surrender.
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If they get 7 points from the next three games I won't care. I will if they don't.
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Sounds shit
But unlike others I don't really care if we win on Saturday
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Fired if we lose Saturday after that.
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That line up was shite. It's like Moscow away all over again. He should take all 11k to Nando's.
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Any positives to take from this game ??
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If they get 7 points from the next three games I won't care. I will if they don't.
The time for dropping points has past. We need to put a string of wins together, so 9 points from 9 please.
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Any positives to take from this game ??
No traffic for those heading home.
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You'd swear footballers hate playing football. There was no need to make wholesale changes against a side that would beat us every second game.
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He should have been sacked already. Hysteria my arse. Incompetent knob dribble.
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As it will probably be asked again, By my reckoning, last time we had a crowd this low was v Forest in the ZDS in Nov 1991. 7,859. We had 12,433 in the LC 2nd round v Wigan in 1993.
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What was the attendance?
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This was like O'Neil in Moscow and Houlier at Man city. Abject surrender.
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Disappointed 😔 should take the cup seriously, build momentum, winning games is a good habit
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I can't get my head around not being bothered about going out a cup. Even if we had no chance of actually winning the thing, I want Villa to be busting a gut to get as far as possible. The fact that our second string looked about as useful as tits on a fish is a side issue but is also slightly sickening.
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Now don't let's start getting hysterical and criticising the manager. You know it's not his fault.
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What was the attendance?
11,197
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Post match interview prediction.
'I thought we were right in it until the sending off. Tommy was a bit unlucky with that. The penalty changes the game. Then we get caught with a su''er punch trying to force an equaliser. That can happen when you're chasing the game. I've said it before we're the big scalp in this league I mean competition. I wanted to give the fringe players a chance and now we've lost it's off with me head again is it? The mass hysteria will be back I suppose.' (Smirk on face).
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I'm kind of tired with the League Cup being used as a free pass to mug off the fans. Based on the attendance I guess that view is shared.
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Bruce, like his team selection is shit.
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I think we should all get' I am hysterical about the villa " shirts
There is money in that.
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£15 to watch what is basically a glorified reserve game these days, no wonder fans are bailing on the early rounds of the LC, not just us but for most sides. If the clubs and managers don't take it seriously why should the fans.
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We should be playing Wednesday, it would of made all the difference!!
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6600 at Palace
12700 Wolves
8700 Reading
Are a few others tonight
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11,000 ;D
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We should be playing Wednesday, it would of made all the difference!!
Wednesday,United,City-doesn't matter who we play.
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i feel sorry for the 11k that went....
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If I was the chairman, I would make it very clear that we pick the best team to win every match in every competition, and I would support a squad to enable that.
Changing the entire bloody team for the sake of it is a joke, and an insult to paying spectators.
If it guaranteed a result against Forest on Saturday I could understand it but we all know it doesn't. In fact surrendering tends to have a negative impact.
I don't care who the chairman or manager is, I will never support this policy.
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I think we should all get' I am hysterical about the villa " shirts
There is money in that.
"Yes, Steve. We are all hysterical. About our Villa."
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Any positives to take from this game ??
Not really.
I am so pissed off. We didn't lose this until late in the second half.
What were the players and SB thinking?
Ah well, we're out. I am upset we've lost the Cup.
But teams lose.
So, the squad have to come back on Saturday. I'll expect a riot. Complete devastation.
And, if we don't win on Saturday, SB is in deep shit.
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Haha! Decided to throw the match then....
Think it's safe to call that Bruce is completely incapable of reacting to what is going on in front of him - when you have 2 centre halves who can't pass water surely occasionally you have a central midfielder play deep to take the ball from them rather than just hump it at the head of the little striker! Brainless! Whelan would have run that game
Kids did fine, experienced players did nothing - ElThick poor, Samba is shot, Hutton was Hutton ran around did nowt, still waiting for Lansbury to turn up in a Villa shirt, Hogan ran as ever but might as well not bother if everything goes at his head.
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After nearly 8 months you'd think Bruce would have learnt that lumping it up to Hogan doesn't work.
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Are we all missing something with these high balls to Hogan ?
Is there a master plan ???
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Dr Tone should have someone stay behind overnight to have all Bruce's stuff packed up into boxes so that all he has to do in the morning when he comes in is pick them up, put them in his car and fuck off!
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Oh dear this is depressing. The result doesn't bother me too much. Partly because I think we need to focus on the league. But it does highlight that when we don't play our full strength side we are well short. Am still to see the value in Ephick.
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Are we all missing something with these high balls to Hogan ?
Is there a master plan ???
Maybe whenever he looks at Hogan he doesn't think he's small, just really far away?
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Are we all missing something with these high balls to Hogan ?
Is there a master plan ???
Maybe whenever he looks at Hogan he doesn't think he's small, just really far away?
Superb
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Spurs got 23,000 at 90,000 Wembley. The League Cup is on it's arse.
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Even three first teamers would have seen us through. Really poor, we may as well not bother entering. Elphick - oh dear, lookedshot after 30 mins.
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In shock news akin to "bears shit in the woods" Aston Villa shoot themselves in the foot and lose.
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Hogan did try to point that out to Bruce as he was dragged off.
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That line up was shite. It's like Moscow away all over again. He should take all 11k to Nando's.
It was much the same line up that played the last round.
People said they wanted to see the kids play in the league games. You got to see Doyle-Hayes and O'Hare. Hogan started etc.
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Even three first teamers would have seen us through. Really poor, we may as well not bother entering. Elphick - oh dear, lookedshot after 30 mins.
Entering the season with Elphick and Samba as the backup centre halves says a lot for Bruce's forward planning.
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Can't say I am too upset about tonight. The manager wasn't concerned, the majority of match going fans also. The league is the priority.
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What was the attendance?
11,197
They really need to lower the prices drastically from now on for cup games against non-prem teams (and even bottom half teams wouldn't be that attractive for a night game).
People just haven't got the money anymore to spend 20 quid on top of their season ticket particularly for opposition we saw seven days ago and a weakened team.
Should be a maximum of a tenner anywhere in the ground.
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Hogan did try to point that out to Bruce as he was dragged off.
Which probably means he'll be offloaded at the first opportunity* to a club that will play him in a team that utilises his skills to the maximum where he'll continue where he left off at Brentford, scoring goals for fun.
* unless Villa wake up and get shot of Bruce.
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Talking of Spurs...they are looking to challenge for the league and champions league, plus the FA Cup. Tonight they played Barnsley at home in the League Cup and they have West Ham away Saturday.
Their line up included Vertonghan, Alli, Son, Trippier, Winks and Dembele. On the Bench were Kane, Dier, Eriksson, Alderweirald....It's a tactical balancing act.
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It's not so much the result - I can take a loss if you put the graft in but get beaten - but it's the collective idea from the manager downwards that it doesn't matter. Winning is the only thing that matters, no matter what the status of the game is. Losing is a bastard of a bad habit to break.
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He must realise he's on borrowed time. Hence the selection. For example I would've at least had kodija on the bench for game time. The bloke is frightened of his own shadow.
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We're into Lambert territory. The odd decent result even though the football is largely clueless, and a catchphrase to boot. Get him to the Noses before they chance upon a decent manager.
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Talking of Spurs...they are looking to challenge for the league and champions league, plus the FA Cup. Tonight they played Barnsley at home in the League Cup and they have West Ham away Saturday.
Their line up included Vertonghan, Alli, Son, Trippier, Winks and Dembele. On the Bench were Kane, Dier, Eriksson, Alderweirald....It's a tactical balancing act.
Makes me realise how little other football I watch that I haven't got a clue as to most names you mention. Kind of liberating.
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I just can't be bothered to be outraged.
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I just can't be bothered to be outraged.
I've tried that, it don't work for me.
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It's not so much the result - I can take a loss if you put the graft in but get beaten - but it's the collective idea from the manager downwards that it doesn't matter. Winning is the only thing that matters, no matter what the status of the game is. Losing is a bastard of a bad habit to break.
I don't know that it doesn't matter to them; I think it does.
Therefore, on Saturday I expect a goal fest.
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I'm not at all bothered by the cup this year. It would have been nice to keep the momentum, but that didn't help against Bristol.
If he had played Kodjia and he got crocked I'm sure he would have got dogs abuse on here. He played the kids and fringe players who did well last outing and needed a run out.
We had a goal disallowed and lost after going down to 10 men.
Not a good performance, but in the scheme of things not a disaster either.
The key game is Forrest. If we win that then great. Another poor performance and it's probably time for the bullet.
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Are we all missing something with these high balls to Hogan ?
Is there a master plan ???
No, we aren't all missing something.
No there isn't a master plan.
I'm not sure there is any kind of plan.
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It's not so much the result - I can take a loss if you put the graft in but get beaten - but it's the collective idea from the manager downwards that it doesn't matter. Winning is the only thing that matters, no matter what the status of the game is. Losing is a bastard of a bad habit to break.
I don't know that it doesn't matter to them; I think it does.
Therefore, on Saturday I expect a goal fest.
If we put one more goal in the net than the opposition, then the result tonight is largely forgotten. But it's a big risk for Bruce to take given we haven't strung two decent performances together at all this season.
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So when does the "We're not hysterical we just don't like you" banner appear?
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Both teams had wholesale changes but nobody really stepped up to the plate. The game matched the atmosphere with little energy or enthusiasm and they weren't any better than us until the penalty and red card.
They did then generally show it was comfortable to play against 10 men although we we were told last week it's one of the hardest things to do.
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just home after two M6 diversions. Total shite - Thor can't possibly be a professional footballer.
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As usual top video for the post match interview https://www.facebook.com/pg/avfcofficial/videos
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We got a smaller crowd than Burnley, Wolves and Bristol City ;D I think the stadium expansion can wait a while yet.
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Chris, sorry but we didn't have a goal disallowed.I was right in line with the play and called offside before the lino had his flag up as it wasn't even close to being onside. If we had all been let in for free then I can understand people saying it doesn't matter but, I feel as if I've been well and truly ripped off. It all seemed so half hearted as well from the players. I didn't like the original line up but, setting that aside, surely we should have at least a couple of players on the bench that could be given half hour or so to try to change the game.
If we don't win on saturday, we are back to square one.
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Bruce reckons it was onside. Then again we know how accurate he is.
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Just home. If ever there was a case to make it a tenner tops (it wasn't worth that) and kids for a quid that was it. Close all top tiers too.
As for the game, no real surprises really. The players that we thought were shit still are, and the inability to play through midfield and place a decisive forward pass was bleeding obvious all night. Some of this lot should be bombed out in January - if there's anyone daft enough to take them.
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Bruce reckons it was onside. Then again we know how accurate he is.
His actual words were 'it was clearly at least six months onside.'
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Bruce reckons it was onside. Then again we know how accurate he is.
He also thinks he's only been here for about four weeks.
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Get rid Tony. Laughing stock Manager. Pathetic excuses, crap football, disrespectful.
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Apologies Chris, Bruce said it was defo onside and the sending off changed everything. However, I think those two things he said in the interview were just to cover his arse yet again
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That was fucking rubbish.
That's the lowest crowd I've been in since that 8k me and 35,000 others attended against Southampton that time. It was a weird 'atmosphere'.
On the bright side, left on final whistle, straight into a cab and back in pub in jewellery quarter in less than 15 minutes
My disappointment is really about us not realising the importance of maintaining a bit of a high between now and Saturday.
That Bamford is a ****** but was the best player in the pitch by miles.
Of our lot, McCormack was a shambling embarrassment, and Bjarnasson is one of the worst players I've seen turn out for us in at least twenty years.
There's a deeply unpleasant stink of decline about the club at the moment. Tonight was really just another reminder of this.
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When we went down to ten I thought great - after all Bruce said only last week how hard it was to play against ten men so we now must surely go on to win. And how, in Bruce's mind, do you achieve that - you take a striker off and put a midfielder on to protect the 0-1. Having said that he started with a midfielder up front so it's no surprise really. The only plus tonight was there was no traffic after the game and got home in record time in spite of Park Circus being closed. I don't even get angry any more.
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11k at the Villa. Haven't seen a crowd that low since the mid 80s.
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Undoubted highlight was the Boro fans singing 'just a shit Robbie Savage' at Bjarnasson - I know I shouldn't have laughed out loud but it was so apt
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Undoubted highlight was the Boro fans singing 'just a shit Robbie Savage' at Bjarnasson - I know I shouldn't have laughed out loud but it was so apt
He's not even that good. He's up there with Salifou, Balaban, Osbourne, Tonev etc.
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Bjarnasson strikes me as the kind of player that is used to one system and one role. The fact that even he doesn't seem to know what that is suggests Basel saw us coming.
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Bjarnasson strikes me as the kind of player that is used to one system and one role. The fact that even he doesn't seem to know what that is suggests Basel saw us coming.
Who was responsible for recruiting him, Round?
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Bjarnasson strikes me as the kind of player that is used to one system and one role. The fact that even he doesn't seem to know what that is suggests Basel saw us coming.
Who was responsible for recruiting him, Round?
Bjarnasson is totally and utterly out of his depth even at this level. Nothing else to say really.
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It's just pathetic now. I'm sure he's got his excuses all fucking lined up. We're going to concentrate on the league, we don't have the squad depth, injuries, the fans don't understand.
Steve, you are a useless fucking wanker. You are just not qualified for this job. Fuck off to some poxy little club where you belong. Aston Villa and all that comes with it is way too big for you.
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I was expecting more from JDH but the biggest disappointment for me (non-Mad Tom category) was Onomah.
He looked great in his early appearances but is now just as meh as the rest of them
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I was expecting more from JDH but the biggest disappointment for me (non-Mad Tom category) was Onomah.
He looked great in his early appearances but is now just as meh as the rest of them
Bruce and co have bludgeoned all enthusiasm out of him. He has this magical ability to turn diamonds into turds.
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I was expecting more from JDH but the biggest disappointment for me (non-Mad Tom category) was Onomah.
He looked great in his early appearances but is now just as meh as the rest of them
Just like Bertrand, Traore, Okore, Amavi...
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It's just pathetic now. I'm sure he's got his excuses all fucking lined up. We're going to concentrate on the league, we don't have the squad depth, injuries, the fans don't understand.
Steve, you are a useless fucking wanker. You are just not qualified for this job. Fuck off to some poxy little club where you belong. Aston Villa and all that comes with it is way too big for you.
Given you very rarely lose your temper I am taking this as the moment you well and truly turned mate :) Cant say I blame you.
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just home after two M6 diversions.
Me, too - and they were more entertaining than the game.
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Bruce reckons it was onside. Then again we know how accurate he is.
It was well offside and Middlesbrough scored again near the end. The ball hit the bar and was clearly over the line before being cleared. Goal line technology would have proved it.
Middlesbrough treated the game more seriously putting out a stronger side so the result was inevitable. Very few of that team will play on Saturday. McCormack and Elphick should never play in a Villa shirt again.
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Wasn't just team & manager who were off their game tonight....at 87 mins when people were flooding out in the DE Upper the door police were stood at all exits directing everyone to the last door which when you went down the stairs was a turnstile controlled exit, one at a time - was an accident waiting to happen.
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Wasn't just team & manager who were off their game tonight....at 87 mins when people were flooding out in the DE Upper the door police were stood at all exits directing everyone to the last door which when you went down the stairs was a turnstile controlled exit, one at a time - was an accident waiting to happen.
There were only 12 people up there.
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Bjarnasson looks like a competition winner.
I can't believe he's actually paid to play football.
In the early stages Onomah was the only one who looked like he could create something up front.
So Bruce moved him thirty yards deeper and removed any chance of him creating anything.
From that point we were clearly not going to score.
I don't understand him, he's just such a fucking negative manager.
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Went out for a drink after the game so only just got back in. Still pretty angry about that to be honest. There is an international break coming up in three games time and they have only played three games since the last one. There was absolutely no need to field a side as weak as that tonight and we've gone out with a whimper.
Someone asked about positives earlier in the thread, well I thought O'Hare was a real positive despite being shunted out to the wing. Doyle-Hayes did OK in midfield and reminded me very much of Steven Davis when he was coming through. He probably isn't quite ready just yet, but O'Hare really impressed. Lansbury was doing OK until he got injured and was replaced by the lesser spotted McCormack.
Negatives - Steer got caught in no man's land for the second goal, Elphick was a red card waiting to happen after he got booked for a rash tackle early on, De Laet's distribution was poor, Hutton and Bjarnason did not look at ease on the left, Onomah looked a bit rusty and Hogan made zero impact on the game yet again.
Two observations - we are in trouble if Taylor is out for a period of time, as we have no decent cover there. Elphick and a McCormack really should have been shifted in the last window.
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When we went down to ten I thought great - after all Bruce said only last week how hard it was to play against ten men so we now must surely go on to win. And how, in Bruce's mind, do you achieve that - you take a striker off and put a midfielder on to protect the 0-1. Having said that he started with a midfielder up front so it's no surprise really. The only plus tonight was there was no traffic after the game and got home in record time in spite of Park Circus being closed. I don't even get angry any more.
I didn't. As soon as they scored that penalty it was game over.
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Bruce reckons it was onside. Then again we know how accurate he is.
It was well offside and Middlesbrough scored again near the end. The ball hit the bar and was clearly over the line before being cleared. Goal line technology would have proved it.
Middlesbrough treated the game more seriously putting out a stronger side so the result was inevitable. Very few of that team will play on Saturday. McCormack and Elphick should never play in a Villa shirt again.
Agreed that Boro 3rd was over the line and should have stood however Elphick was NOT offside and as that would have been the opening goal can not be balanced out by Boro over/not over the line effort.
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It's just pathetic now. I'm sure he's got his excuses all fucking lined up. We're going to concentrate on the league, we don't have the squad depth, injuries, the fans don't understand.
Steve, you are a useless fucking wanker. You are just not qualified for this job. Fuck off to some poxy little club where you belong. Aston Villa and all that comes with it is way too big for you.
I wish you wouldn't fanny about with your words and come out and say what you mean.
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When we went down to ten I thought great - after all Bruce said only last week how hard it was to play against ten men so we now must surely go on to win. And how, in Bruce's mind, do you achieve that - you take a striker off and put a midfielder on to protect the 0-1. Having said that he started with a midfielder up front so it's no surprise really. The only plus tonight was there was no traffic after the game and got home in record time in spite of Park Circus being closed. I don't even get angry any more.
Good point.
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It's just pathetic now. I'm sure he's got his excuses all fucking lined up. We're going to concentrate on the league, we don't have the squad depth, injuries, the fans don't understand.
Steve, you are a useless fucking wanker. You are just not qualified for this job. Fuck off to some poxy little club where you belong. Aston Villa and all that comes with it is way too big for you.
I wish you wouldn't fanny about with your words and come out and say what you mean.
Exhausted by it all Olly. I'm tired as a fan of being taken for a fucking mug by this plonker. The football is utterly shit and so are his reasons game after game justifying why we should keep putting up with it. He's won the fucking lottery landing at Aston Villa. At least McLeish accepted that and throughout his tenure, as poor as it was never insulted our intelligence. This fucker acts like we owe him gratitude for having him. Like fuck we do.
You're a lucky bastard Steve Aston Villa still pays you.
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Yes I know what you mean. He counts his 2 club promotions when it suits him but doesn't mention relegations. He doesn't care much about us just concentrating on building his pension nest eggs
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To be honest, this is all just collateral damage for where we find ourselves - a mid table Championship side that desperately needs to have a good run in the league to kick start the season.
The LC was always going to be an under strength side largely full of the rabble that we've amassed over the last few seasons - with the likes of Richards and McCormack not even able to get in the second string starting line up. They really should be ashamed of that! But they wont be.
I hate to admit it but it IS all about the league at the moment and with the extra games you get in the Championship these are games we can do without. Like is say, the LC early rounds are just the inevitable collateral damage imo.
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we never looked interested and that is unpardonable
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Disappointing not to have gone a bit further in the cup as it keeps the season ticking along. Fair play to everyone who went along, it didn't sound great at all.
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I applauded the idea of playing the kids. I liked the opportunity to give de Laet, Hogan and McGate a run-out. I hoped Onomah would be a driving force.
However: the whole set-up and 100% changes from Saturday seemed to be counterproductive and unnecessary.
Last evening proved that we may have a big squad but it is imbalanced (c.f. The CB situation) and contains too much dead weight (Richards, McGate, Flabby). After 11 months, one can argue convincingly that this is down to the manager and to Round.
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When we went down to ten I thought great - after all Bruce said only last week how hard it was to play against ten men so we now must surely go on to win. And how, in Bruce's mind, do you achieve that - you take a striker off and put a midfielder on to protect the 0-1. Having said that he started with a midfielder up front so it's no surprise really. The only plus tonight was there was no traffic after the game and got home in record time in spite of Park Circus being closed. I don't even get angry any more.
There's a difference between playing against 10 men who are on level terms and just shutting up shop and being in a 10 men team who need a goal to get back into the game. Can't you see that?
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I applauded the idea of playing the kids. I liked the opportunity to give de Laet, Hogan and McGate a run-out. I hoped Onomah would be a driving force.
However: the whole set-up and 100% changes from Saturday seemed to be counterproductive and unnecessary.
Last evening proved that we may have a big squad but it is imbalanced (c.f. The CB situation) and contains too much dead weight (Richards, McGate, Flabby). After 11 months, one can argue convincingly that this is down to the manager and to Round.
I kind of understood why he did it. We have got 3 league games in 8 days starting Saturday so that may have been in his thinking but yes, 100% changes was probably too much.
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Bjarnasson looks like a competition winner.
I can't believe he's actually paid to play football.
In the early stages Onomah was the only one who looked like he could create something up front.
So Bruce moved him thirty yards deeper and removed any chance of him creating anything.
From that point we were clearly not going to score.
I don't understand him, he's just such a fucking negative manager.
Bruce brings on a striker for an injured midfielder and it's "fucking negative"
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When we went down to ten I thought great - after all Bruce said only last week how hard it was to play against ten men so we now must surely go on to win. And how, in Bruce's mind, do you achieve that - you take a striker off and put a midfielder on to protect the 0-1. Having said that he started with a midfielder up front so it's no surprise really. The only plus tonight was there was no traffic after the game and got home in record time in spite of Park Circus being closed. I don't even get angry any more.
I didn't. As soon as they scored that penalty it was game over.
Tom was being tongue in cheek. He was referring to Bruce's lame excuses after Middlesbrough went down to 10 men after 4 minutes in the league game.
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I applauded the idea of playing the kids. I liked the opportunity to give de Laet, Hogan and McGate a run-out. I hoped Onomah would be a driving force.
However: the whole set-up and 100% changes from Saturday seemed to be counterproductive and unnecessary.
Last evening proved that we may have a big squad but it is imbalanced (c.f. The CB situation) and contains too much dead weight (Richards, McGate, Flabby). After 11 months, one can argue convincingly that this is down to the manager and to Round.
I kind of understood why he did it. We have got 3 league games in 8 days starting Saturday so that may have been in his thinking but yes, 100% changes was probably too much.
If that's the case then the club should be charging a fiver for adults and free for kids. It does nobody any favours playing to an empty stadium.
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I applauded the idea of playing the kids. I liked the opportunity to give de Laet, Hogan and McGate a run-out. I hoped Onomah would be a driving force.
However: the whole set-up and 100% changes from Saturday seemed to be counterproductive and unnecessary.
Last evening proved that we may have a big squad but it is imbalanced (c.f. The CB situation) and contains too much dead weight (Richards, McGate, Flabby). After 11 months, one can argue convincingly that this is down to the manager and to Round.
I kind of understood why he did it. We have got 3 league games in 8 days starting Saturday so that may have been in his thinking but yes, 100% changes was probably too much.
If that's the case then the club should be charging a fiver for adults and free for kids. It does nobody any favours playing to an empty stadium.
I agree. £15 was too much especially when we've got two homes games before the end of the month. I think a tenner for adults and a fiver for the kiddywinks would have been better.
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Bjarnasson looks like a competition winner.
I can't believe he's actually paid to play football.
In the early stages Onomah was the only one who looked like he could create something up front.
So Bruce moved him thirty yards deeper and removed any chance of him creating anything.
From that point we were clearly not going to score.
I don't understand him, he's just such a fucking negative manager.
Bruce brings on a striker for an injured midfielder and it's "fucking negative"
People see what they want to see Matt.
It was obviously a poor performance, but without the disallowed goal and red card who knows?
I'm not happy with the performance or Bruce's performance in general since he joined - I'm pretty much in the get rid camp now. But I'll judge him on the games that matter and given we won well on Saturday, the next league game is all that really matters to me, not what the B team do.
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I applauded the idea of playing the kids. I liked the opportunity to give de Laet, Hogan and McGate a run-out. I hoped Onomah would be a driving force.
However: the whole set-up and 100% changes from Saturday seemed to be counterproductive and unnecessary.
Last evening proved that we may have a big squad but it is imbalanced (c.f. The CB situation) and contains too much dead weight (Richards, McGate, Flabby). After 11 months, one can argue convincingly that this is down to the manager and to Round.
I kind of understood why he did it. We have got 3 league games in 8 days starting Saturday so that may have been in his thinking but yes, 100% changes was probably too much.
If that's the case then the club should be charging a fiver for adults and free for kids. It does nobody any favours playing to an empty stadium.
Don't you think people pretty much knew what they would get given it's exactly what we did (and got praised for) in the last round? But yes, I'm all for cheaper prices for these games.
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i feel sorry for the 11k that went....
I went on a free ticket and I still feel mugged off! I feel sorry for those who parted with £15
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I applauded the idea of playing the kids. I liked the opportunity to give de Laet, Hogan and McGate a run-out. I hoped Onomah would be a driving force.
However: the whole set-up and 100% changes from Saturday seemed to be counterproductive and unnecessary.
Last evening proved that we may have a big squad but it is imbalanced (c.f. The CB situation) and contains too much dead weight (Richards, McGate, Flabby). After 11 months, one can argue convincingly that this is down to the manager and to Round.
I kind of understood why he did it. We have got 3 league games in 8 days starting Saturday so that may have been in his thinking but yes, 100% changes was probably too much.
If that's the case then the club should be charging a fiver for adults and free for kids. It does nobody any favours playing to an empty stadium.
Don't you think people pretty much knew what they would get given it's exactly what we did (and got praised for) in the last round? But yes, I'm all for cheaper prices for these games.
I agree that people pretty much knew what they would get. That's why the ground was empty
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When we went down to ten I thought great - after all Bruce said only last week how hard it was to play against ten men so we now must surely go on to win. And how, in Bruce's mind, do you achieve that - you take a striker off and put a midfielder on to protect the 0-1. Having said that he started with a midfielder up front so it's no surprise really. The only plus tonight was there was no traffic after the game and got home in record time in spite of Park Circus being closed. I don't even get angry any more.
There's a difference between playing against 10 men who are on level terms and just shutting up shop and being in a 10 men team who need a goal to get back into the game. Can't you see that?
It was a tongue in cheek comment more pointed at Bruce's comments last week. Surprised you can't see that
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Didn't follow any of the coverage last night and not at all surprised by the result given the team he selected. Bruce made it obvious that he was going to play a weak team, but I thought he may have at least given much needed game time to the likes of Kodjia, Snodgrass and Anomah, and that bit of quality could have made a difference in the performance and result. Shocking attendance, but fairplay to those that could be arsed to go to the game.
He needs a win against Forest without any excuses.
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I don't know why so many people were so surprised at the line up, given the fact that there was only 10k odd Villa fans there, it was clear that was the line up the the majority of fans were expecting and why they decided to stay away.
Yes I believe he should have played more of the regulars, but this month we are playing 7 games in 21 days, which is a heavy schedule.
Agree with those , who are saying max £10 to get in and kids for free.
Thought Onomah was class at times, although went off in the 2nd half. Good to see O'Hare and Doyle given some game time and would have liked to have seen more of Blackett Taylor, but what little bit I did see I was impressed.
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Maybe next year (http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/competitions/carabao-cup/11044063/aston-villa-0-2-middlesbrough)
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Doesn't show from the highlights and a few ppl disagreeing on here, but was Elphicks header definitely offside? Also what was his first booking for? Ridiculous challenge for the sending off even though he claimed he touched the ball in the process of taking out their player.
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Elphicks goal looked onside to me, although it was tight.
All one way traffic otherwise.
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Doesn't show from the highlights and a few ppl disagreeing on here, but was Elphicks header definitely offside? Also what was his first booking for? Ridiculous challenge for the sending off even though he claimed he touched the ball in the process of taking out their player.
The first booking was reckless lunge on the touchline when he had no hope of getting the ball. Definite yellow. He was a red card waiting to happen after that.
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When we went down to ten I thought great - after all Bruce said only last week how hard it was to play against ten men so we now must surely go on to win. And how, in Bruce's mind, do you achieve that - you take a striker off and put a midfielder on to protect the 0-1. Having said that he started with a midfielder up front so it's no surprise really. The only plus tonight was there was no traffic after the game and got home in record time in spite of Park Circus being closed. I don't even get angry any more.
I didn't. As soon as they scored that penalty it was game over.
Tom was being tongue in cheek. He was referring to Bruce's lame excuses after Middlesbrough went down to 10 men after 4 minutes in the league game.
I know mate!! Was more a comment to say that as soon as the penalty went in, it was game over.
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I didn't go last night not because I knew he wouldn't bother with playing anything like a decent team but due to other commitments however I do feel sorry for supporters who paid good money to be there. Supporters forking out their hard earned cash deserve better.
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Sounds like he's just automatically doubled the pressure on the team to win the next few games. That may result in more intensity and us getting 6 more league points. Or it may hasten his departure if we fail to beat Forest. Big gamble and at face value, an uneccesary one to take at this early stage. We'll see. Seems as if he's clinging on now- the players will sense it. If they back him, they'll perform, if they don't they won't and he could be away by early October.
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Clueless, potato-headed m*therf*cker
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I know, from the pre-match comments yesterday, that some of you are content that we are out of the cup, and can concentrate on the league, but I'm still gutted this morning.
I spent 25% of my weekly take home pay to travel 200+ miles there and back, and what I saw was a very poor attempt at trying to win a home cup match. If that's the way this club intends to go with the cups - as it seems to make no difference which division we are in or what squad we have - then 11,000 people turning up is more than they deserve.
11 changes is a complete piss take, especially when you decide to have nothing of any quality on the bench. If the club intend to do that they should charge everyone what they charge fans for going to see the 'reserves'. People like me, who have to spend on travel, will probably not bother, but they might get a lot more locals and their children.
However poor we were as a first team, I always thought we would try to win things and do our best. Yes, I know "it's modern football", but copying 'the big clubs' in pretending we can pick and chose which games we try to win has not done us any good at all, from what I can see.
These days we're not only a very poor side, we're doing things that make me dislike the club. Something I, naively perhaps, thought would never happen.
It seems as though we were, yet again, going for the 'all out league assault, or bust' approach. We know how that normally turns out.
Oh well. I can do an extra night shift to claw back the money I threw down the drain last night, and promise myself not to make the same mistake in the FA Cup come January.
Rant over.
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In terms of cost. Why not make it free for season ticket holders. They knew sales were poor and this would have encouraged more to attend. Bring a friend for free and see if they can get them interested in going regularly. Surely extra pints/pies etc would have been worth it.
Dreadful performance.
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In terms of cost. Why not make it free for season ticket holders. They knew sales were poor and this would have encouraged more to attend. Bring a friend for free and see if they can get them interested in going regularly. Surely extra pints/pies etc would have been worth it.
Dreadful performance.
Probably because we still have to pay the money to Boro. It's easy to say the club should write off about £100K, which is probably approx last night's gate receipts, when it's not our 100K. And it's worth remembering there were hardly loads more last round when it was free to ST holders. It should have been £10/5 last night I reckon, but not sure if there's a rule on a minimum admission price to stop going lower than that possible, there is in the FA Cup. From the first round proper it has to be at least £10 a ticket.
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I'm all in favour of blooding a few youngsters in these games but see no reason why Bruce felt the need to rest the entire first team with Saturday's game in mind. This merely creates the same pressure on him to get a result as M'ON did when he took the opportunity to play a reserve side v Moscow with the Stoke game coming up.
The only difference being we were challenging for the Champions League places then and now we aren't challenging for anything!
Saw the Bruce interview post match and he didn't seem overly bothered - whether he looks so relaxed post match Saturday evening will depend entirely on the result I think. He's almost made the game must win with these changes
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I'm all in favour of blooding a few youngsters in these games but see no reason why Bruce felt the need to rest the entire first team with Saturday's game in mind. This merely creates the same pressure on him to get a result as M'ON did when he took the opportunity to play a reserve side v Moscow with the Stoke game coming up.
The only difference being we were challenging for the Champions League places then and now we aren't challenging for anything!
Saw the Bruce interview post match and he didn't seem overly bothered - whether he looks so relaxed post match Saturday evening will depend entirely on the result I think. He's almost made the game must win with these changes
If you don't think we're challenging for anything, why is the game a must win?
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It's easy to say the club should write off about £100K, which is probably approx last night's gate receipts, when it's not our 100K.
Agreed but they allowed that numpty to pick a shit side and to play awful disjointed football which means we miss out on any "big name" draw in the next round.
For what its worth
Steer - awful on both crosses for goal and for one that hit bar
DeLaet - more comfortable on left than Hutton so played on right
Samba - so 1 dimensional and slow
Elphick - Disaster waiting to happen everytime he is near the ball
Hutton - Oh dear - his positional play and defending ability in his rightful position is garbage - at LB? Took being shit to a new level - truly terrible footballer
Lansbury - I keep waiting for the player who was so rated to appear - its not happened yet
Doyle-Hayes - tenacious and good vision, not afraid of wanting the ball - would pick him over Whelan now!
Onomah - some good some bad - not seen anything that others have raved about as yet
O'Hare - busy but not that effective - could be decent in the future although we will probably never find out
Hogan - I have supported him and thought it was a lot of bad luck but I might be wrong and he might be shit - it is unfair that he is not played in his favoured way
Bjork - seriously one of the worst footballers I have ever seen at VP (and there have been many shit ones) - what is his position? What are his key attributes? I cannot find one
Lyden - chased shadows
Taylor - as above
McCormack - Hogan had no support and 40 yard punts in the air - Ross was no different
Honest question
He had a LB on the bench (Clark) who played pretty well last game - why have 4 RB's in the squad and play the worst one at LB. And then choose the have that worst LB behind the worst LM in history. I don't want to just bash Bruce for the sake of it - he just makes criticising his decisions so easy. WTF does he and his "coaching team" see in training - because I cannot fathom out some of his choices. As for coaching, why did Boro look slicker, faster and moved the ball better than us? Our tempo is terrible and there seems no urgency at any point in the game.
All of this is the remit of the Manager and its crap
Oh and stop having sarcastic digs back at supporters - ask DOL how that worked out for him. You have done fuck all yet to be even the slightest big smug about
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I'm all in favour of blooding a few youngsters in these games but see no reason why Bruce felt the need to rest the entire first team with Saturday's game in mind. This merely creates the same pressure on him to get a result as M'ON did when he took the opportunity to play a reserve side v Moscow with the Stoke game coming up.
The only difference being we were challenging for the Champions League places then and now we aren't challenging for anything!
Saw the Bruce interview post match and he didn't seem overly bothered - whether he looks so relaxed post match Saturday evening will depend entirely on the result I think. He's almost made the game must win with these changes
If you don't think we're challenging for anything, why is the game a must win?
I don't believe we are challenging for anything but Bruce clearly does; that's why I believe he has made the game must win
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I'm all in favour of blooding a few youngsters in these games but see no reason why Bruce felt the need to rest the entire first team with Saturday's game in mind. This merely creates the same pressure on him to get a result as M'ON did when he took the opportunity to play a reserve side v Moscow with the Stoke game coming up.
The only difference being we were challenging for the Champions League places then and now we aren't challenging for anything!
Saw the Bruce interview post match and he didn't seem overly bothered - whether he looks so relaxed post match Saturday evening will depend entirely on the result I think. He's almost made the game must win with these changes
If you don't think we're challenging for anything, why is the game a must win?
I don't believe we are challenging for anything but Bruce clearly does; that's why I believe he has made the game must win
Of course he does, why wouldn't he?
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I'm all in favour of blooding a few youngsters in these games but see no reason why Bruce felt the need to rest the entire first team with Saturday's game in mind. This merely creates the same pressure on him to get a result as M'ON did when he took the opportunity to play a reserve side v Moscow with the Stoke game coming up.
The only difference being we were challenging for the Champions League places then and now we aren't challenging for anything!
Saw the Bruce interview post match and he didn't seem overly bothered - whether he looks so relaxed post match Saturday evening will depend entirely on the result I think. He's almost made the game must win with these changes
If you don't think we're challenging for anything, why is the game a must win?
I don't believe we are challenging for anything but Bruce clearly does; that's why I believe he has made the game must win
Of course he does, why wouldn't he?
I'm struggling to get your point - I believe the next game is almost a must win because of Bruce's team selection last night - he decided to write off the cup because we 'need' those players for Saturday - fail to win the game on Saturday now and he will be under even more pressure. Given the money spent, start to the season and time he has been here (plus lack of real progress) and he may even face the chop.
Whether or not I think we are challenging for anything (or if SB thinks we are) is irrelevant isn't it?
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A win last night would have continued confidence all round and we would be looking forward to a good home draw in the next round against a team like Liverpool or Man Utd which would mean a bigger crowd and thus more income for the club. Bruce threw all that away last night and most of us are in despair again. A win on Saturday of course and all this will be forgotten but I suspect not for long as he continues to have no idea how to pick a good formation from the players at his disposal. His tactics are bleak and he finds it impossible to adjust to injuries and changes in tactics by the opposition. At least he hasn't got Bacuna to put first on his teamsheet every time.
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I'm all in favour of blooding a few youngsters in these games but see no reason why Bruce felt the need to rest the entire first team with Saturday's game in mind. This merely creates the same pressure on him to get a result as M'ON did when he took the opportunity to play a reserve side v Moscow with the Stoke game coming up.
The only difference being we were challenging for the Champions League places then and now we aren't challenging for anything!
Saw the Bruce interview post match and he didn't seem overly bothered - whether he looks so relaxed post match Saturday evening will depend entirely on the result I think. He's almost made the game must win with these changes
If you don't think we're challenging for anything, why is the game a must win?
I don't believe we are challenging for anything but Bruce clearly does; that's why I believe he has made the game must win
Of course he does, why wouldn't he?
I'm struggling to get your point - I believe the next game is almost a must win because of Bruce's team selection last night - he decided to write off the cup because we 'need' those players for Saturday - fail to win the game on Saturday now and he will be under even more pressure. Given the money spent, start to the season and time he has been here (plus lack of real progress) and he may even face the chop.
Whether or not I think we are challenging for anything (or if SB thinks we are) is irrelevant isn't it?
Of course we're challenging for promotion. It's our absolute No1 priority and rightly so. Whether we are likely to achieve it or not is a moot point, but to suggest we're not challenging is just silly.
I think he would have been under pressure if we don't be Forrest on Sat anyway (and rightly so), whatever the B team did last night.
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A win last night would have continued confidence all round and we would be looking forward to a good home draw in the next round against a team like Liverpool or Man Utd which would mean a bigger crowd and thus more income for the club.
We're not Walsall.
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Of course we're not, but extra prize money for winning last night, potential for being on TV and say an approx 30K crowd if we drew one of the 'big' clubs at home is probably worth around half a million. Not to be sneezed at when FFP is weighing you down.
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A win last night would have continued confidence all round and we would be looking forward to a good home draw in the next round against a team like Liverpool or Man Utd which would mean a bigger crowd and thus more income for the club. Bruce threw all that away last night and most of us are in despair again. A win on Saturday of course and all this will be forgotten but I suspect not for long as he continues to have no idea how to pick a good formation from the players at his disposal. His tactics are bleak and he finds it impossible to adjust to injuries and changes in tactics by the opposition. At least he hasn't got Bacuna to put first on his teamsheet every time.
I take it you are kidding with that comment?
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It would mean a bigger crowd and more income. I think Liverpool lost, though.
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We'd normally, rightly, scoff about the 'bigger crowd' stuff, but normally we aren't a division 2 side fecked by FFP. So half a million plus would be more than a tad handy.
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We'd normally, rightly, scoff about the 'bigger crowd' stuff, but normally we aren't a division 2 side fecked by FFP. So half a million plus would be more than a tad handy.
Pays the wages for Terry for a couple of months.
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Of course we're not, but extra prize money for winning last night, potential for being on TV and say an approx 30K crowd if we drew one of the 'big' clubs at home is probably worth around half a million. Not to be sneezed at when FFP is weighing you down.
If anything encapsulates the "how far have we sunk" comment that people joke about, then its a bleeding comment like the one I quoted. We're not some League 2 shite looking for a fucking pay day.
Christ on the Cross.
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We'd normally, rightly, scoff about the 'bigger crowd' stuff, but normally we aren't a division 2 side fecked by FFP. So half a million plus would be more than a tad handy.
Maybe the club could have produced some half and half scarves as well.
Coor blimey I cannot believe I missed out on a big club like Manchester United or Liverpool or Chelsea coming to Villa Park with all their amazing players. Wowzers, I'd have had my face painted and worn a foam hand too. I'd have had to have bought an SLR so I could have taken a picture everytime a Premier League great from such a big club came to take a corner near the Holte End.
We could have had a commemorative match day programme too.
It wouldn't have mattered about the result either, what an honour it would have been.
Just think, I could tell my children I was there.
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I know, from the pre-match comments yesterday, that some of you are content that we are out of the cup, and can concentrate on the league, but I'm still gutted this morning.
I spent 25% of my weekly take home pay to travel 200+ miles there and back, and what I saw was a very poor attempt at trying to win a home cup match. If that's the way this club intends to go with the cups - as it seems to make no difference which division we are in or what squad we have - then 11,000 people turning up is more than they deserve.
11 changes is a complete piss take, especially when you decide to have nothing of any quality on the bench. If the club intend to do that they should charge everyone what they charge fans for going to see the 'reserves'. People like me, who have to spend on travel, will probably not bother, but they might get a lot more locals and their children.
However poor we were as a first team, I always thought we would try to win things and do our best. Yes, I know "it's modern football", but copying 'the big clubs' in pretending we can pick and chose which games we try to win has not done us any good at all, from what I can see.
These days we're not only a very poor side, we're doing things that make me dislike the club. Something I, naively perhaps, thought would never happen.
It seems as though we were, yet again, going for the 'all out league assault, or bust' approach. We know how that normally turns out.
Oh well. I can do an extra night shift to claw back the money I threw down the drain last night, and promise myself not to make the same mistake in the FA Cup come January.
Rant over.
I can walk to the ground from where I live and I really wish I hadn't bothered to last night. It was utterly shite and we got the result we deserved. Or rather the result Steve Bruce deserved for his shambolic and mind numbing team selections which are too numerous for me to be bothered to go over. You deserve a medal for your efforts my friend.
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We are currently a division 2 club that has little money to spend due to FFP whether you like it or not. Although i'm curious what business in the world treats a potential half a million as though it's nothing. Still, we'll brass it eh Danny.
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A win last night would have continued confidence all round and we would be looking forward to a good home draw in the next round against a team like Liverpool or Man Utd which would mean a bigger crowd and thus more income for the club. Bruce threw all that away last night and most of us are in despair again. A win on Saturday of course and all this will be forgotten but I suspect not for long as he continues to have no idea how to pick a good formation from the players at his disposal. His tactics are bleak and he finds it impossible to adjust to injuries and changes in tactics by the opposition. At least he hasn't got Bacuna to put first on his teamsheet every time.
I take it you are kidding with that comment?
Why should I be kidding?
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From what I have been watching lately, we're far closer to becoming like Walsall than any PL club.
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We are currently a division 2 club that has little money to spend due to FFP whether you like it or not. Although i'm curious what business in the world treats a potential half a million as though it's nothing. Still, we'll brass it eh Danny.
Did you see the side we put out? The club gave not a single fuck.
Fingers crossed we can get a big club in the FA Cup. Maybe the BBC can film us watching the draw so we can celebrate getting a Premier League side down here. It would be lovely to see the big stars down here. Maybe we could build a temporary stand so we can pack some more people in?
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A win last night would have continued confidence all round and we would be looking forward to a good home draw in the next round against a team like Liverpool or Man Utd which would mean a bigger crowd and thus more income for the club. Bruce threw all that away last night and most of us are in despair again. A win on Saturday of course and all this will be forgotten but I suspect not for long as he continues to have no idea how to pick a good formation from the players at his disposal. His tactics are bleak and he finds it impossible to adjust to injuries and changes in tactics by the opposition. At least he hasn't got Bacuna to put first on his teamsheet every time.
I take it you are kidding with that comment?
Why should I be kidding?
As you support Aston fucking Villa.
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A win last night would have continued confidence all round and we would be looking forward to a good home draw in the next round against a team like Liverpool or Man Utd which would mean a bigger crowd and thus more income for the club. Bruce threw all that away last night and most of us are in despair again. A win on Saturday of course and all this will be forgotten but I suspect not for long as he continues to have no idea how to pick a good formation from the players at his disposal. His tactics are bleak and he finds it impossible to adjust to injuries and changes in tactics by the opposition. At least he hasn't got Bacuna to put first on his teamsheet every time.
I take it you are kidding with that comment?
Why should I be kidding?
As you support Aston fucking Villa.
and the relevance of that comment is......?
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We may still be Aston Villa, but we're currently in the bottom half of division 2, spent the summer signing cheap or free players as we can't spend much money and just pulled 11k for the first time in over a quarter of a century.
It's in part thinking that just being Aston Villa is enough that's led us to this shite situation that we're struggling to get ourselves out of. Just as the same thinking led to the mess we found ourselves back in the late 60s. And it was the cup runs as a lower league side in 70/71 and 74/75 that helped us achieve what we did in 77-83. If we didn't have that cup run in 74/75 then there's a decent chance we wouldn't have signed at least 1 of Mortimer or Gray. If we don't sign one of those there may well have been no '77 and/or 80-82.
I very much doubt any of us like the reality of where we are at the moment, doesn't mean we can just ignore it either.
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A win last night would have continued confidence all round and we would be looking forward to a good home draw in the next round against a team like Liverpool or Man Utd which would mean a bigger crowd and thus more income for the club. Bruce threw all that away last night and most of us are in despair again. A win on Saturday of course and all this will be forgotten but I suspect not for long as he continues to have no idea how to pick a good formation from the players at his disposal. His tactics are bleak and he finds it impossible to adjust to injuries and changes in tactics by the opposition. At least he hasn't got Bacuna to put first on his teamsheet every time.
I take it you are kidding with that comment?
Why should I be kidding?
As you support Aston fucking Villa.
and the relevance of that comment is......?
You appear to have forgotten.
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We may still be Aston Villa, but we're currently in the bottom half of division 2, spent the summer signing cheap or free players as we can't spend much money and just pulled 11k for the first time in over a quarter of a century.
It's in part thinking that just being Aston Villa is enough that's led us to this shite situation that we're struggling to get ourselves out of. Just as the same thinking led to the mess we found ourselves back in the late 60s. And it was the cup runs as a lower league side in 70/71 and 74/75 that helped us achieve what we did in 77-83. If we didn't have that cup run in 74/75 then there's a decent chance we wouldn't have signed at least 1 of Mortimer or Gray. If we don't sign one of those there may well have been no '77 and/or 80-82.
I very much doubt any of us like the reality of where we are at the moment, doesn't mean we can just ignore it either.
We may still be Aston Villa, but we're currently in the bottom half of division 2, spent the summer signing cheap or free players as we can't spend much money and just pulled 11k for the first time in over a quarter of a century.
It's in part thinking that just being Aston Villa is enough that's led us to this shite situation that we're struggling to get ourselves out of. Just as the same thinking led to the mess we found ourselves back in the late 60s. And it was the cup runs as a lower league side in 70/71 and 74/75 that helped us achieve what we did in 77-83. If we didn't have that cup run in 74/75 then there's a decent chance we wouldn't have signed at least 1 of Mortimer or Gray. If we don't sign one of those there may well have been no '77 and/or 80-82.
I very much doubt any of us like the reality of where we are at the moment, doesn't mean we can just ignore it either.
Well said. I wonder if Ads will tear you apart! Just think we could have drawn Spurs at Wembley in the last 16 with a win last night. No doubt more than 11k would have gone to that and, as you say, it could have been the springboard we needed.
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We may still be Aston Villa, but we're currently in the bottom half of division 2, spent the summer signing cheap or free players as we can't spend much money and just pulled 11k for the first time in over a quarter of a century.
It's in part thinking that just being Aston Villa is enough that's led us to this shite situation that we're struggling to get ourselves out of. Just as the same thinking led to the mess we found ourselves back in the late 60s. And it was the cup runs as a lower league side in 70/71 and 74/75 that helped us achieve what we did in 77-83. If we didn't have that cup run in 74/75 then there's a decent chance we wouldn't have signed at least 1 of Mortimer or Gray. If we don't sign one of those there may well have been no '77 and/or 80-82.
I very much doubt any of us like the reality of where we are at the moment, doesn't mean we can just ignore it either.
Spent the summer signing Premier League players on low fees and big wages to augment a bloated squad, that any other club in the division would like to dip their mucky hand into the proverbial pot and scoop out 4 or 5 who would instantly improve their lot.
Being proud that we're Aston Villa and not some fucking two bit shit house club who pine for missing out on playing a big club in the next round, has absolutely fuck all to do with why we are where we are.
Its not the 1970s. Its 2017 where we can afford to pay John Terry £60k a week. People talk about Bruce being lost to the game, such is the shift in two years. Whether that has any relevance or not, your comments are so far removed, we may as well be talking about a different sport. You're talking as if 1992/93 did not happen and the quarter of a century that has followed.
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We may still be Aston Villa, but we're currently in the bottom half of division 2, spent the summer signing cheap or free players as we can't spend much money and just pulled 11k for the first time in over a quarter of a century.
It's in part thinking that just being Aston Villa is enough that's led us to this shite situation that we're struggling to get ourselves out of. Just as the same thinking led to the mess we found ourselves back in the late 60s. And it was the cup runs as a lower league side in 70/71 and 74/75 that helped us achieve what we did in 77-83. If we didn't have that cup run in 74/75 then there's a decent chance we wouldn't have signed at least 1 of Mortimer or Gray. If we don't sign one of those there may well have been no '77 and/or 80-82.
I very much doubt any of us like the reality of where we are at the moment, doesn't mean we can just ignore it either.
We may still be Aston Villa, but we're currently in the bottom half of division 2, spent the summer signing cheap or free players as we can't spend much money and just pulled 11k for the first time in over a quarter of a century.
It's in part thinking that just being Aston Villa is enough that's led us to this shite situation that we're struggling to get ourselves out of. Just as the same thinking led to the mess we found ourselves back in the late 60s. And it was the cup runs as a lower league side in 70/71 and 74/75 that helped us achieve what we did in 77-83. If we didn't have that cup run in 74/75 then there's a decent chance we wouldn't have signed at least 1 of Mortimer or Gray. If we don't sign one of those there may well have been no '77 and/or 80-82.
I very much doubt any of us like the reality of where we are at the moment, doesn't mean we can just ignore it either.
Well said. I wonder if Ads will tear you apart! Just think we could have drawn Spurs at Wembley in the last 16 with a win last night. No doubt more than 11k would have gone to that and, as you say, it could have been the springboard we needed.
I am being trolled here fucking surely. Jesus titty fucking H Christ.
Well played, you've got me.
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And we both know our summer dealings would have been very different if we weren't hampered by FFP. There's a difference between being proud to be Villa, and thinking that just being Villa is enough to win promotion and not worry about finances and FFP. When you're in division 2, 92/93 may as well not have happened as down here you are still massively dependent on club generated income rather than TV money. We received less than £7m last season for prize and TV money. If we were in the top flight no one would give a shite apart from it's yet another missed chance at a trophy.
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I'm with ADS here. Pining for a big draw against a big club like Liverpool or Spurs to boost the coffers is fucking ridiculous.
Bruce couldn't give a shit about the cup this season and rightly so when all that really matters is promotion. So he picked a side to protect the first team who have 3 matches in 8 days next week and to give much needed game time to the fringe players and kids.
It didn't pan out, but if we get 7-9 points from those games then it will have been worth it.
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Decent effort by Surrey Villain, he reeled me in too. Fair play.
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There's difference between pining for it and seeing the benefits of it. If we'd have got through i'd have wanted a home draw against the shittest team left in it, same as I always do.
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There's difference between pining for it and seeing the benefits of it. If we'd have got through i'd have wanted a home draw against the shittest team left in it, same as I always do.
I'm not sure the benefits outweigh keeping the first team fresh for a massively important run of games and giving the fringe players a run out. And if Elphicks goal had been given things may have been different anyway.
There's lots of things to criticise Bruce about at the moment and for me he is right on the brink, but last nights selection isn't one of them as far as I'm concerned.
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We can't play ourselves, though.
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I'm all in favour of blooding a few youngsters in these games but see no reason why Bruce felt the need to rest the entire first team with Saturday's game in mind. This merely creates the same pressure on him to get a result as M'ON did when he took the opportunity to play a reserve side v Moscow with the Stoke game coming up.
The only difference being we were challenging for the Champions League places then and now we aren't challenging for anything!
Saw the Bruce interview post match and he didn't seem overly bothered - whether he looks so relaxed post match Saturday evening will depend entirely on the result I think. He's almost made the game must win with these changes
If you don't think we're challenging for anything, why is the game a must win?
I don't believe we are challenging for anything but Bruce clearly does; that's why I believe he has made the game must win
Of course he does, why wouldn't he?
I'm struggling to get your point - I believe the next game is almost a must win because of Bruce's team selection last night - he decided to write off the cup because we 'need' those players for Saturday - fail to win the game on Saturday now and he will be under even more pressure.
Regardless of whatever team he'd put out last night, he would have been under pressure to win on Saturday anyway. He hasn't put himself under any extra presure, it's been on him since he's been here. Last night's team selection makes not a jot of difference, even if we'd won the game.
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Last time we were in the second division we played Liverpool at home in the cup and it was a massive occasion. Live on telly, full house, fantastic atmosphere, fantastic manager. Back in the days when the Cup meant something and every team went out to win every game. Nobody thought about a cup run affecting our promotion, everyone just wanted to win something. Feel sorry for people who never got to enjoy such experiences
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I haven't overly disagreed with the selection apart from picking both Samba and Elphic which had disaster written all over it. I've disagreed with the viewpoint that a club screwed by FFP should turn their nose up at half a million.
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We can't play ourselves, though.
Pity there isn't a 'like' button on here like Facebook so you can just click and not have to write something.
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Last time we were in the second division we played Liverpool at home in the cup and it was a massive occasion. Live on telly, full house, fantastic atmosphere, fantastic manager. Back in the days when the Cup meant something and every team went out to win every game. Nobody thought about a cup run affecting our promotion, everyone just wanted to win something. Feel sorry for people who never got to enjoy such experiences
That was the last time we had 46K for a game.
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Last time we were in the second division we played Liverpool at home in the cup and it was a massive occasion. Live on telly, full house, fantastic atmosphere, fantastic manager. Back in the days when the Cup meant something and every team went out to win every game. Nobody thought about a cup run affecting our promotion, everyone just wanted to win something. Feel sorry for people who never got to enjoy such experiences
That was the last time we had 46K for a game.
Was it also the game where we all held up a red card before the kick off? the "say no to ID cards" campaign? or am I getting mixed up? Jesus, how much things have changed
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it was the game where ray Houghton took a free kick about 20 yards from where the foul was for liverpools first goal
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We can't play ourselves, though.
Both teams would find a way to lose embarrassingly
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it was the game where ray Houghton took a free kick about 20 yards from where the foul was for liverpools first goal
That was the season after.:
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it was the game where ray Houghton took a free kick about 20 yards from where the foul was for liverpools first goal
I'm sure that was the league game early in the next season.
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Last time we were in the second division we played Liverpool at home in the cup and it was a massive occasion. Live on telly, full house, fantastic atmosphere, fantastic manager. Back in the days when the Cup meant something and every team went out to win every game. Nobody thought about a cup run affecting our promotion, everyone just wanted to win something. Feel sorry for people who never got to enjoy such experiences
That was the last time we had 46K for a game.
Didn't we have 46k for the Holtes last stand?
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it was the game where ray Houghton took a free kick about 20 yards from where the foul was for liverpools first goal
That was the season after.:
Another starstruck referee who should of never reffed another game after that.
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There's difference between pining for it and seeing the benefits of it. If we'd have got through i'd have wanted a home draw against the shittest team left in it, same as I always do.
Yes and there is a difference between competing properly in a cup competition building a winning mentality and wishing for a big draw so that we can put a few ££'s in the till. Aston Villa FC should be doing the former and not concerned about the latter.
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Last time we were in the second division we played Liverpool at home in the cup and it was a massive occasion. Live on telly, full house, fantastic atmosphere, fantastic manager. Back in the days when the Cup meant something and every team went out to win every game. Nobody thought about a cup run affecting our promotion, everyone just wanted to win something. Feel sorry for people who never got to enjoy such experiences
That was the last time we had 46K for a game.
Didn't we have 46k for the Holtes last stand?
Yes we did. 92'' wasn't it? Who can forget Ronnie Rosenthals miss in front of the Holte?
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It would have been 1994. I thought there was 40 plus on the gate.
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Holte's last stand 45000 from memory. Scousers FA Cup 87/88 46000.
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Regardless of whatever team he'd put out last night, he would have been under pressure to win on Saturday anyway. He hasn't put himself under any extra presure, it's been on him since he's been here. Last night's team selection makes not a jot of difference, even if we'd won the game.
I totally disagree with this.
I don't give a flying fuck about who we might have got in the next round, so all that doesn't bother me, but the fact is we had a rare win at the weekend, and the chance to build some confidence or momentum.
If he'd have put out a less laughable team last night, we might have made it look at least like a game. Instead, he didn't, and we put out a surrender team. The result of that is a great big kick in the bollocks whereas even losing respectably might have been enough to maintain some sort of momentum.
He has been under pressure since he's been here - yes, you're right about that - but he has now needlessly added more pressure.
That's what drives me nuts about this bloke, he needlessly makes things more fucking difficult and complicated than they need be.
He's quite clearly not going to get us up. We don't get up this season, we are financially fucked. We do not have the time and money to be patient with this one, I'm afraid. Lose at the weekend, and he has to go.
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He should have been replaced weeks/months ago. Nice enough bloke but not suited to the job of our manager. We're not hysterical, we just don't rate you.
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From official site,
(http://thumb.ibb.co/mYVoKQ/IMG_0434.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mYVoKQ)
On this day in 1994, Villa Park’s famous Holte End was used as a terrace for the final time.
There was a carnival mood as 19,210 supporters – each of whom received a certificate to mark the occasion – stood on the Holte to watch the last home game of the season against Liverpool. Appropriately all three goals were scored at that end, Dwight Yorke’s second-half brace giving Villa a 2-1 win after the visitors had led through Robbie Fowler at the interval.
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I'm going to guess 45724 for the holtes last stand.
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Any positives to take from this game ??
No traffic for those heading home.
It didn't rain & Callum O'Hare !
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Regardless of whatever team he'd put out last night, he would have been under pressure to win on Saturday anyway. He hasn't put himself under any extra presure, it's been on him since he's been here. Last night's team selection makes not a jot of difference, even if we'd won the game.
I totally disagree with this.
I don't give a flying fuck about who we might have got in the next round, so all that doesn't bother me, but the fact is we had a rare win at the weekend, and the chance to build some confidence or momentum.
If he'd have put out a less laughable team last night, we might have made it look at least like a game. Instead, he didn't, and we put out a surrender team. The result of that is a great big kick in the bollocks whereas even losing respectably might have been enough to maintain some sort of momentum.
He has been under pressure since he's been here - yes, you're right about that - but he has now needlessly added more pressure.
That's what drives me nuts about this bloke, he needlessly makes things more fucking difficult and complicated than they need be.
He's quite clearly not going to get us up. We don't get up this season, we are financially fucked. We do not have the time and money to be patient with this one, I'm afraid. Lose at the weekend, and he has to go.
Your very last line proves my point really. People have been saying that for the last few matches. Do you really think a strong line up and a place in the next round of the cup would have changed that?
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Holte's last stand was 45,347.
FA Cup was 46,324
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And anyone who was at that Liverpool game with all the excitement that surrounded it being in the 2nd tier as we were at the time and flying will realise what a cup run as well as a good promotion can mean for feelgood factors and momentum.
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And anyone who was at that Liverpool game with all the excitement that surrounded it being in the 2nd tier as we were at the time and flying will realise what a cup run as well as a good promotion can mean for feelgood factors and momentum.
The atmosphere was fantastic that match, but it was hardly a cup run, it was the fourth round. We've played more matches in the League Cup this year. It would be interesting to see what would happen if we drew a team like Liverpool in the FA Cup this year. The message from the top is pretty obvious though - promotion is the sole priority.