Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Legion on September 05, 2017, 08:07:30 PM
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Keith Wyness (https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2017/09/05/the-big-interview-keith-wyness)
The Big Interview:
Wyness on the Villa Engine, Villa Park expansion plans and acquiring satellite clubs abroad
- Club in discussions to purchase several teams abroad
- Villa Park set for 60,000 capacity after Premier League return
- New football philosophy – the “Villa Engine” – being championed at Bodymoor Heath
- Moves for two Premier League big-hitters come close in transfer window
Keith Wyness has packed a lot into his life already.
Our amiable CEO starred in BBC’s University Challenge, persuaded FIFA to bring in the referee vanishing spray, won the USA version of The Price is Right and survived Hurricane Andrew.
But he stresses he’s never been more excited as he looks to help re-establish Aston Villa as one of the biggest names in world football.
Wyness chats the week after the close of the summer transfer window and he’s buoyant at what the club has been able to do.
But he’s not just looking at the short-term of getting back to the Premier League.
He’s relishing the introduction of the “Villa Engine” – a football philosophy being championed by Director of Football Steve Round.
“I have been very pleased with our business in this window.
“I know there’ll have been a big rush of fans saying on Deadline Day evening ‘oh we didn’t do anything.’ Well I am pleased we didn’t need to do anything. I don’t want to have to do things on the last day. I think a lot of clubs who are scrambling around on the last day have got it wrong in many ways.
“We did a lot of our business last January, never mind this transfer window.
“So we have now got the squad balanced. We know it hasn’t been the start we had hoped for but I do believe we are in a very good position now to really push on.
“In terms of Deadline Day and outgoings, it went right until 11pm. We didn’t get things across the line that we had hoped.
“In terms of potential incomings, there were a couple of big names in the mix. We’re not going to divulge their names.
“There were two big Premier League names that we were in discussions with. But it’s difficult to get things across the line. I am afraid I will have to tease everybody with that information.
“People would be amazed by it all. I think the ratio is that if you are working on six deals, one might come through. If we say we did seven ins and nine outs, that’s 16 deals, you times that by six, that means we probably worked on approximately 100 deals during this window. That gives you an idea.
“Each one is unique too. It has different pressures, different variables, different people involved – balancing 100 deals over the window is an interesting time. That’s why we are all relieved when it closes.
“My phone is ringing off the hook during the window. On Deadline Day, it started at 5am and with Dr Tony in China we’re talking through the night.
“I remember the last summer transfer window, I maybe had one or two hours of sleep per night for three weeks. It was like that. It does run hot.
“On the football side, it all starts in us getting back to the Premier League. I think everyone can see that there’s a short-term strategy in place in terms of experience to get us back.
“But that’s certainly not the long-term strategy.
“Then we want to see the Villa Engine start to take shape. We are very far advanced in our thinking on this. We have given it a lot of thought and we absolutely have the vision.
“We know where we want to get to but we’re also living in the present moment and understand the reality of getting out of the Championship.
“Steve Round is crucial for this vision going-forward.
“He’s one of the brightest young thinkers in the game today. I really enjoy working with him.
“He’s not only helped with the transfer window and being the major player within the initial phases of all the deals, he’s the one tasked with making sure the Villa Engine is starting to be developed throughout the academy.
“That’s everything – elite coaching, sports science, health and nutrition. Everything is linked together through Steve Round as we look for the right recipe for us to go forward.
“Long-term, I want to see a clear direction of the club in terms of style of play – and generating youngsters…in other words a clear youth direction for the club.
“We want to be seen as an unbelievably attractive club to come and play for.
“Steve Round has been an invaluable sounding board for Steve Bruce too. He’s had 20 unbroken years of coaching in the top level. He’s worked for Man Utd and England. He’s one of the great brains of the game at the moment. He and Steve have a great relationship. They are talking football day in and day out.
“It’s also vital the club has that vital anchor that, if god forbid, we do have a management change, Steve would be the continuum in that we know how to carry on going-forward.
“That’s something we have never had before. Whenever we have changed managers, it’s been total chaos and lurching from one crisis to another one.
“We are now trying to make sure we have a balanced progression no matter what happens and I think that’s important for the future.
“I am excited about the Villa Engine – and it’s not just about style of football. It’s a whole philosophy about playing for Villa.
“It’s an overarching system of what type of players we will be recruiting and the personalities we are recruiting. Of course, it has style of football at its heart but that’s not the be all and end all, it’s actually about who you are as Aston Villa.
“Steve Round has done a lot of work on it. It will go through all the age groups and it will, hopefully, produce an Aston Villa team that will play in a certain style and also have the same character and personality and values whatever the age group.
“It’s about pride, passion and purpose – that one goal that goes through the whole club.”
Fast-forward to a point in time when the Villa Engine is purring through the gears and the stars of tomorrow could be playing in an advanced Villa Park stadium as Wyness reveals long-term plans to expand the ground – and develop the surrounding area.
Wyness is looking at bringing Villa Park up to a 60,000 capacity, with six solutions on the table.
“We would be looking to take the stadium up to a 60,000 capacity. We are in initial discussions about how that could possibly be done. We are in the very early stages at present.
“We’re certainly looking to regenerate the whole area.
“We have groups working on that right now to try and bring a whole different level of attraction here – and redeveloping the whole area around the whole vicinity of Villa Park to improve it.
“We have some clever thoughts on what the area redevelopment would look like. There would be some sporting themes.
“There’s a lot going on behind the scenes, working with the City Council on this.
“In terms of 60,000, I don’t see us pushing the button on that until we were back in the Premier League. These things can take between three-five years too.
“There are six different solutions to make this come to be. We are looking at all of them. North Stand would be the key area to be redeveloped. Other parts of Doug Ellis – and some parts of even the Holte End – would need to be redeveloped to in increase its capacity. But there are so many variables that we have to look into.
“Even though it’s a great piece of land with good access, it’s still landlocked to a great degree and there are big traffic implications to increasing to 60,000. Things like the stations might be need to increase in size.
“There was a lot of work done previously by Randy Lerner and his team. We are reviewing all of that. But we also have our own thoughts in where we want to take it.
“It needs to be updated to keep it as that jewel it has always been.
“We have the utmost respect for the ground and what it means to our supporters and any changes would be in-keeping with that. But it needs to be increased if we are to be commercially successful long-term.”
As well as glimpsing up at a modern Villa Park, the claret and blue star of tomorrow could also see opportunities to play abroad, with Wyness currently in negotiations to increase the Aston Villa brand overseas.
Just as Man City have teams in Australia and USA, Villa are also looking at acquiring clubs far and wide.
News on these could come soon, according to Wyness.
“The strengthening of the Aston Villa brand abroad is very much on the agenda. It’s something I keep a close eye on. I have had several discussions with some groups overseas.
“I think what we have learnt is that you need to get the “mothership” right first – which is Aston Villa Football Club. It’s about getting it right here before we go out and acquire.
“It’s important to have that good structure here so we can then go out and teach those clubs how to run it from the mothership.
“It could be any time soon that we dabble into those markets. It’s not Premier League dependent. We already have contacts and advanced negotiations on a number of areas but nothing absolutely concrete just yet.”
Wyness is still working hard on getting the “mothership” of Aston Villa right – but he’s come a long way.
He’s proud of the work that’s been done in the last year.
“When we took over, the club had just been relegated and we’d had a big redundancy exercise of staff. Times were very tough.
“The first thing you have to do is assess what are the core needs of the club. From that, you then build a team of staff that you are sure are going to go with you for the journey forward. You have to make sure they are looked after, have clear direction and are motivated – we basically build a clearer structure for those people.
“Then things can start to grow again once you have that core of people following you.
“It’s bringing things back to basics and changing the culture and starting off again with a very strong group of people.
“In terms of a turnaround, it’s been as big as Everton. Everton was experiencing tough times when I arrived there.
“That was a big turnaround – but it was done successfully. Villa has other issues and different areas to be addressed but it was just as big and I think the rewards will be even bigger as we get the club back up to where it should be.”
Wyness loves his role as the club’s lynchpin, managing it day-to-day – and he believes his background in business has been vital in his first 12 months in charge.
“The job of a CEO at a football club, you’re a jack of all trades – and you have to be master of all of them.
“One day I am running a retail business, the next day I am running a top restaurant, the next day I am trading for players and then the following day, I am considering property deals.
“You’re covering a whole myriad of business skills. You can’t slip up on any of them.
“It’s vital that you have a very big background in general business and not just football. I would say that 70% of the business I do is outside of football.
“The transfer window is a major part of it and you do need to know your football inside-out. But you have to know everything in business because a football club touches every single part of it. It’s very broad.”
If it’s business experience you’re looking for, Wyness is perfect for the role at Aston Villa.
Here’s a guy who started his career at British Airways as a young graduate – and within a few years he was working on the Concorde project and setting up what is now known as the Executive Club Card.
Even during those six years, his mind was bubbling with ideas.
“Even at BA, I saw at that time the growth of the cruise industry.
“I went off with a business partner to the USA and set up a cruise line in Miami. We started off with a drawing on a napkin and went out with a begging bowl around Wall Street and raised $125m and built the world’s first twin hold cruise ship.
“We started the cruise line which we eventually sold to Radisson Hotels.”
Then it was into football with Aberdeen and Everton, experience which eventually led him to Dr Tony Xia and Aston Villa.
“There was a group who had already been in touch with Dr Tony and had seen he was interested in buying a club. They had known of me from my time at Everton. I think they wanted someone who had a background of doing a turnaround.
“They were the experts in doing the transaction while I was seen as the right person who could come in longer-term to manage the business. That’s how it happened.
“I got to know Dr Tony during the transaction and he’s a very quick judge of people. He decided he wanted me and liked me and here I am today.
“Dr Tony is the brightest man I have ever met and dealt with in business. His academic record shows you that.
“He has a wicked sense of humour and he loves his football without shadow of doubt. He is always looking to the future and can always analyse issues with a speed that is very rare. He has a huge talent for that. But he’s always looking at the vision, we are constantly talking about that. He’s at least two or three years ahead.
“But he also lives in the present and he’s backed us as we look to get back to the Premier League.
“There are FFP limits. I know some fans think that doesn’t exist. But I can assure them, it exists very, very clearly. We have to submit papers to the Football League every year and we are very clear of the sanctions if we were to breach FFP. There are limits. We have adhered to them. We are right on the red line with them but we will be okay.
“Dr Tony has backed us as far as he could do. His thoughts are very welcome but he hasn’t started to dictate. He listens to reasoned argument. We make the right decisions as a group. As chairman of course he has the final say. But he has been wonderful to work with.”
Another man who has been wonderful to work with has been boss Steve Bruce.
Like Dr Tony, Wyness loves Bruce’s honest approach – and ebullient personality.
“He’s revered in football. His black book is second to none. He is well respected. That’s because he’s a good man.
“What you see is what you get. That’s the thing about Steve – he’s a very true character. I speak to him openly and honestly – we have a very clear communication, there’s no game-playing. That’s been fantastic. It’s the best relationship I’ve had with a manager in all my years in football.
“Perhaps younger managers coming into the game, in their own development phase, they might feel they need to protect their own thoughts and are not as good at communicating as they should be.
“I think it all comes out with age and experience that the best way is honesty and sincerity.”
These are two traits undoubtedly shining through with Wyness as he continues to steer the mothership Aston Villa into clearer waters.
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All sounds good. Now get us out of this bloody league!
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6 pages. Reasonable expectation.
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An interesting read. It was interesting what he said about doing most of our business in January. I thought it was a good idea at the time and still do.
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If we are going to really develop a style of football, we should be bringing in a full young coaching set up below the first team that mirrors how the first team works. They could work with developing the football with the younger players without the pressure and spotlight of the first team. They would be allowed to make mistakes in being adventurous without it hurting us. At some point, the coaching set up could then move up to the first team under a general manager.
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Interesting read, not sure if we would ever fill a 60,000 seater stadium even if we were to be successful for a sustained period of time.
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Interesting read, not sure if we would ever fill a 60,000 seater stadium even if we were to be successful for a sustained period of time.
Nobody would of said that about Citeh 10 years ago neither. Talks cheap though.
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Interesting read, not sure if we would ever fill a 60,000 seater stadium even if we were to be successful for a sustained period of time.
Nobody would of said that about Citeh 10 years ago neither. Talks cheap though.
I don't think city fill it now 😨😊
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If I say the 'L' word, does everyone promise not to immediately jump up and down? Right then:
When Lerner took over we peaked with an average attendance of just over 40,000 in 2007-08 and despite another two top six finished gates slipped from then on. I don't think, as it stands, we could make the next jump towards making a 60,000 seater or anything like that stadium viable. Realistically, it would mean getting over 50,000 at least half a dozen times a year (which we've done in the past) and over forty the rest of the time (which we never have).
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If I say the 'L' word, does everyone promise not to immediately jump up and down? Right then:
When Lerner took over we peaked with an average attendance of just over 40,000 in 2007-08 and despite another two top six finished gates slipped from then on. I don't think, as it stands, we could make the next jump towards making a 60,000 seater or anything like that stadium viable. Realistically, it would mean getting over 50,000 at least half a dozen times a year (which we've done in the past) and over forty the rest of the time (which we never have).
Agree completely, but what have Citeh got that we haven't.? Money?
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If I say the 'L' word, does everyone promise not to immediately jump up and down? Right then:
When Lerner took over we peaked with an average attendance of just over 40,000 in 2007-08 and despite another two top six finished gates slipped from then on. I don't think, as it stands, we could make the next jump towards making a 60,000 seater or anything like that stadium viable. Realistically, it would mean getting over 50,000 at least half a dozen times a year (which we've done in the past) and over forty the rest of the time (which we never have).
Agree completely, but what have Citeh got that we haven't.?
Money. And a ground that was built for them.
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If I say the 'L' word, does everyone promise not to immediately jump up and down? Right then:
When Lerner took over we peaked with an average attendance of just over 40,000 in 2007-08 and despite another two top six finished gates slipped from then on. I don't think, as it stands, we could make the next jump towards making a 60,000 seater or anything like that stadium viable. Realistically, it would mean getting over 50,000 at least half a dozen times a year (which we've done in the past) and over forty the rest of the time (which we never have).
Agree completely, but what have Citeh got that we haven't.? Money?
Fabian Delph.
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If I say the 'L' word, does everyone promise not to immediately jump up and down? Right then:
When Lerner took over we peaked with an average attendance of just over 40,000 in 2007-08 and despite another two top six finished gates slipped from then on. I don't think, as it stands, we could make the next jump towards making a 60,000 seater or anything like that stadium viable. Realistically, it would mean getting over 50,000 at least half a dozen times a year (which we've done in the past) and over forty the rest of the time (which we never have).
The gates under Lerner were on an upward trajectory until it became apparent the ambition wasn't there. If clubs like Man City, West Ham and Newcastle can regularly get over 50k I'm sure Villa can.
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An interesting read. It was interesting what he said about doing most of our business in January. I thought it was a good idea at the time and still do.
Belting idea to leave us with one left back.
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If I say the 'L' word, does everyone promise not to immediately jump up and down? Right then:
When Lerner took over we peaked with an average attendance of just over 40,000 in 2007-08 and despite another two top six finished gates slipped from then on. I don't think, as it stands, we could make the next jump towards making a 60,000 seater or anything like that stadium viable. Realistically, it would mean getting over 50,000 at least half a dozen times a year (which we've done in the past) and over forty the rest of the time (which we never have).
The gates under Lerner were on an upward trajectory until it became apparent the ambition wasn't there. If clubs like Man City, West Ham and Newcastle can regularly get over 50k I'm sure Villa can.
No they weren't. They peaked in his second season and went down after that. Nobody can say that the ambition wasn't still there in 2008-09; we signed the then-England centre-forward for gawd's sake.
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Reads very well. Fingers crossed it all comes to fruition. The difficulty is though that it all hinges on us getting out of the league and I'm not convinced we will do that this season. if we don't, then terry, samba, jedinak, whelan, Johnstone, snodgrass, Onomah will be close to or will need replacing for age/loan reasons next season which will make it tough to mount a challenge and could leave us as the next Leeds, Forrest, Wednesday club
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If I say the 'L' word, does everyone promise not to immediately jump up and down? Right then:
When Lerner took over we peaked with an average attendance of just over 40,000 in 2007-08 and despite another two top six finished gates slipped from then on. I don't think, as it stands, we could make the next jump towards making a 60,000 seater or anything like that stadium viable. Realistically, it would mean getting over 50,000 at least half a dozen times a year (which we've done in the past) and over forty the rest of the time (which we never have).
The gates under Lerner were on an upward trajectory until it became apparent the ambition wasn't there. If clubs like Man City, West Ham and Newcastle can regularly get over 50k I'm sure Villa can.
No they weren't. They peaked in his second season and went down after that. Nobody can say that the ambition wasn't still there in 2008-09; we signed the then-England centre-forward for gawd's sake.
If that's Heskey you're talking about then thats exactly the point many Villa fans realised the downwards curve was about to start.
Heskey ffs.
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Nobody disses Emile on my watch.
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If that's Heskey you're talking about then thats exactly the point many Villa fans realised the downwards curve was about to start.
Heskey ffs.
We signed Luke Young as well. What more did you want?
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It was Marlon Harewood for me. That was the point when I thought, "hang on a minute..."
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If I say the 'L' word, does everyone promise not to immediately jump up and down? Right then:
When Lerner took over we peaked with an average attendance of just over 40,000 in 2007-08 and despite another two top six finished gates slipped from then on. I don't think, as it stands, we could make the next jump towards making a 60,000 seater or anything like that stadium viable. Realistically, it would mean getting over 50,000 at least half a dozen times a year (which we've done in the past) and over forty the rest of the time (which we never have).
The gates under Lerner were on an upward trajectory until it became apparent the ambition wasn't there. If clubs like Man City, West Ham and Newcastle can regularly get over 50k I'm sure Villa can.
No they weren't. They peaked in his second season and went down after that. Nobody can say that the ambition wasn't still there in 2008-09; we signed the then-England centre-forward for gawd's sake.
My memory of the time was that the Barry transfer request (along with signings that weren't of perceived top four quality) started to make some people lose belief in the new regime. Lerner simply couldn't maintain the initial positive momentum of the takeover and O'Neill appointment thus the quick upturn in attendances melted away. Finishing sixth on successive occasions was also greeted with a groans of failure by some of the Villa faithful - top four was what it was all about.
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My memory of that time was that the Barry transfer request (along with signings that weren't of perceived top four quality) started to make some people lose belief in the new regime. Lerner simply couldn't maintain the initial positive momentum of the takeover and O'Neill appointment and the quick upturn in attendances just as quickly melted away.
My memory is that in January 2009 we were convinced we were about to put in a proper challenge for the title and the Champions League was a formality. The crowds still went down, as they did the year after when we were still in top four contention for much of the season and still spending big money. No-one, at least on here, was talking lack of ambition then.
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How long is Wyness visiting earth for?Villa Engine?
It might as well be Thomas the Tank engine.
We have gambled twice on 2 managers, the latest being a meat and potatos guy without any discernible style or strategy. The transfer activity follows this lack of footballing identity and we are discussing if 60,000 capacity is realistic.
We are near the bottom of the second division having having assembled an eclectic and random squad which has just been matched by a team that cost 10 quid.
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How long is Wyness visiting earth for?Villa Engine?
It might as well be Thomas the Tank engine.
We have gambled twice on 2 managers, the latest being a meat and potatos guy without any discernible style or strategy. The transfer activity follows this lack of footballing identity and we are discussing if 60,000 capacity is realistic.
We are near the bottom of the second division having having assembled an eclectic and random squad which has just been matched by a team that cost 10 quid.
Yeah, that all reads as hot air to me.
Talk of 100 deals and 2 hrs sleep a night through the transfer window, Villa 'engine' and 'mothership' just feels like someone trying to hard to impress. I will reserve judgement for what is achieved on the field.
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I'll start to worry when the former commandant of the PLAMC signs up on here.
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He seems a bit too cosy with Bruce. That he mentions we're implementing a system where we still have a consistent philosophy regardless of manager is encouraging but a bit meaningless if Steve "God forbid he leaves" Bruce stays as long as Wyness/Round.
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If I say the 'L' word, does everyone promise not to immediately jump up and down? Right then:
When Lerner took over we peaked with an average attendance of just over 40,000 in 2007-08 and despite another two top six finished gates slipped from then on. I don't think, as it stands, we could make the next jump towards making a 60,000 seater or anything like that stadium viable. Realistically, it would mean getting over 50,000 at least half a dozen times a year (which we've done in the past) and over forty the rest of the time (which we never have).
I love it when talk of ground expansion takes place and people quote what we can't / won't achieve, I've always been uber optimistic on this one . I think there are something like 10 million people within a 1.5 hour travelling time from our stadium , and it feels like 1 million people in the West Midlands are wearing glory hunting kits that have nothing to do with our region's teams. We'll only ever know what we're capable of when we have some sustained success on the pitch. Not flirting with top six finishes- actually picking up the big prizes. No disrespect to the league cup but as much as I've loved seeing us win it it isn't a major trophy as I keep telling Bluenoses they've yet to win a major prize !
Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal have the fan bases they have due to their sustained success from 1950 onwards , all of them winning more since then than us in our 143 year history . But despite our lack of recent success and being one of the worst teams to watch over he last five years we have a fantastic fan base to build upon.
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I don't know about a 60,000 capacity, but there's a possibility the Premier League crowds of the future could look quite different to the crowds of today and yesterday. It might not just be home and away fans any more.
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I don't know about a 60,000 capacity, but there's a possibility the Premier League crowds of the future could look quite different to the crowds of today and yesterday. It might not just be home and away fans any more.
Aliens ? 😱
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I don't know about a 60,000 capacity, but there's a possibility the Premier League crowds of the future could look quite different to the crowds of today and yesterday. It might not just be home and away fans any more.
Aliens ? 😱
Birmingham City will never get into the Premier League again.
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I was impressed reading that. Some joined up thinking at last. Some real communication at last. Does it guarantee success on or off the pitch, of course not. But if he can pull off most of what he is aiming for we will be in a far healthier state. We complain about lack of communication in the past and then pick holes with a guy who has stated clear goals and explained himself as much as possible. Without feeling the need to mention those mates of Randy's who we never saw. The Summanites or something like that. The way he spoke I thought he was about to sell the club to them. Maybe they didn't bother coming down from the mountain or wherever they lived.
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If that's Heskey you're talking about then thats exactly the point many Villa fans realised the downwards curve was about to start.
Heskey ffs.
We signed Luke Young as well. What more did you want?
All that money Lerner spent, and other than Ashley Young, not a single bums on seats player, just lots of ok £7m workers.
I felt sorry for him on that front.
Our home form under MON meant we'd always struggle with crowds, and signings like Heskey won't have shifted a single ticket.
Did we even break our record signing under Lerner?
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If I say the 'L' word, does everyone promise not to immediately jump up and down? Right then:
When Lerner took over we peaked with an average attendance of just over 40,000 in 2007-08 and despite another two top six finished gates slipped from then on. I don't think, as it stands, we could make the next jump towards making a 60,000 seater or anything like that stadium viable. Realistically, it would mean getting over 50,000 at least half a dozen times a year (which we've done in the past) and over forty the rest of the time (which we never have).
Agree completely, but what have Citeh got that we haven't.? Money?
Fabian Delph.
But they keep him well hidden.
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If that's Heskey you're talking about then thats exactly the point many Villa fans realised the downwards curve was about to start.
Heskey ffs.
We signed Luke Young as well. What more did you want?
All that money Lerner spent, and other than Ashley Young, not a single bums on seats player, just lots of ok £7m workers.
I felt sorry for him on that front.
Our home form under MON meant we'd always struggle with crowds, and signings like Heskey won't have shifted a single ticket.
Did we even break our record signing under Lerner?
Darren Bent says hello.
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I was with him till I got to "He's a good man" as that reminded me of Trump's favourite saying followed by the good man disappearing.
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Our record signing when Lerner took over was JPA at about 9.5m, 4 times we spent more than that under Lerner. Young, Milner, Downing and Bent.
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Davies and Cuellar weren't far off that, either.
We do never seem to sign a glamour signing from a position of strength. Partly MON's fault. I reckon the Villa version of Juninho signing for Boro or Klinsmann joining Tottenham could add a decent number to the gate.
If would be going some to envisage a time where we could come close to packing 60,000 in, mind. But I welcome the ambition.
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I don't know about a 60,000 capacity, but there's a possibility the Premier League crowds of the future could look quite different to the crowds of today and yesterday. It might not just be home and away fans any more.
Aliens ? 😱
Shape shifting lizards.
They'll fit right in at Stamford Bridge.
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Our amiable CEO starred in BBC’s University Challenge, persuaded FIFA to bring in the referee vanishing spray, won the USA version of The Price is Right and survived Hurricane Andrew.
Well we have that in common. Although I evacuated INTO the center of it (it turned south at the last moment following me with uncanny accuracy) :)
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Davies and Cuellar weren't far off that, either.
We do never seem to sign a glamour signing from a position of strength. Partly MON's fault. I reckon the Villa version of Juninho signing for Boro or Klinsmann joining Tottenham could add a decent number to the gate.
If would be going some to envisage a time where we could come close to packing 60,000 in, mind. But I welcome the ambition.
Or simply someone who could've turned into a top player, and given the club one or two seasons at that sort of level - I mean, Milner, Barry, Petrov, Downing, Young were all quality players, but not exactly cream of the crop.
I'm not sure whether those Falcao rumours were ever actually true, but imagine him being supplied crosses by Young and Milner for a couple of seasons.
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The cosmopolitan make up of the West Midlands will dictate the bigger crowds. 40k Villa fans and 10/20k daytrippers coming to see a successful team.
We just have to suffer watching us huff and puff our way out of this league first.
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If I say the 'L' word, does everyone promise not to immediately jump up and down? Right then:
When Lerner took over we peaked with an average attendance of just over 40,000 in 2007-08 and despite another two top six finished gates slipped from then on. I don't think, as it stands, we could make the next jump towards making a 60,000 seater or anything like that stadium viable. Realistically, it would mean getting over 50,000 at least half a dozen times a year (which we've done in the past) and over forty the rest of the time (which we never have).
I love it when talk of ground expansion takes place and people quote what we can't / won't achieve, I've always been uber optimistic on this one . I think there are something like 10 million people within a 1.5 hour travelling time from our stadium , and it feels like 1 million people in the West Midlands are wearing glory hunting kits that have nothing to do with our region's teams. We'll only ever know what we're capable of when we have some sustained success on the pitch. Not flirting with top six finishes- actually picking up the big prizes. No disrespect to the league cup but as much as I've loved seeing us win it it isn't a major trophy as I keep telling Bluenoses they've yet to win a major prize !
Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal have the fan bases they have due to their sustained success from 1950 onwards , all of them winning more since then than us in our 143 year history . But despite our lack of recent success and being one of the worst teams to watch over he last five years we have a fantastic fan base to build upon.
I agree. When you look at the population within travelling distance to the ground then it's definitely possible. Also consider the lack of local glamourous alternatives even more so. The only question is why it hasn't happened previously.
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I was impressed reading that. Some joined up thinking at last. Some real communication at last. Does it guarantee success on or off the pitch, of course not. But if he can pull off most of what he is aiming for we will be in a far healthier state. We complain about lack of communication in the past and then pick holes with a guy who has stated clear goals and explained himself as much as possible.
That's the way it is i'm afraid for some people. I thought it was an interesting read and no, a lot of what we're planning might not come off, well not yet anyway because of where we are but at least there's some forward thinking. For some though, everything has to happen now, or it won't happen at all because everything's shit. Oh well.
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With regards to Villa Park, I was once always in the knowledge that it was one of the biggest and best stadiums in Britain and was the envy of other clubs, held semi finals etc. This may be unpopular but I now think its a good but not necessarily a great stadium and is perhaps looking a bit tired and has been left behind. In terms of capacity you can now name and quite a number of clubs with [much] larger grounds instead of about 3 as once was.
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More new fans come with success. Thats the harsh truth. Start winning things and you get more fans, keep doing that for a decade or two and you can fill any stadium you like.
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Interesting read, not sure if we would ever fill a 60,000 seater stadium even if we were to be successful for a sustained period of time.
I think we would. Bigger crowds have been inside VP when it was standing and there was less people to target then. The product and the price need to be right though which they currently are not.
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The days of Villa Park as the big stadium and venue of choice for the FA cup semis has long gone. There was only old Trafford to compete with in the past now a number of stadiums such as Emirates, tax payers, new spurs, redeveloped Anfield, Manchester council house, stadium of light and St James park offer more capacity and better facilities. Our unique location in the centre of the country is just about the only advantage left.
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Nice words - time will tell I guess.
"The Villa Engine". Same as "Der Hamburger Weg" etc? Whether its a fundamental and sustained vision that everyone works towards or simply corporate bullsh&t that changes as soon as the manager changes; I'm not so sure.
In terms of 60K? Interesting. The current American model seems to be build smaller, but rake more cash in from the punters that are present (better concession stands etc). Not sure if that approach wouldn't be better?
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I was impressed reading that. Some joined up thinking at last. Some real communication at last. Does it guarantee success on or off the pitch, of course not. But if he can pull off most of what he is aiming for we will be in a far healthier state. We complain about lack of communication in the past and then pick holes with a guy who has stated clear goals and explained himself as much as possible.
That's the way it is i'm afraid for some people. I thought it was an interesting read and no, a lot of what we're planning might not come off, well not yet anyway because of where we are but at least there's some forward thinking. For some though, everything has to happen now, or it won't happen at all because everything's shit. Oh well.
Next year Rodders were going to be mirrionaires.
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Interesting read, not sure if we would ever fill a 60,000 seater stadium even if we were to be successful for a sustained period of time.
I think we would. Bigger crowds have been inside VP when it was standing and there was less people to target then. The product and the price need to be right though which they currently are not.
We had 54000+ for a friendly against Santos, what a night that was.
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Really looking forward to the development of the ground and surrounding area. We are in a dream location and setting that we've never really sussed how to utilise. Five minutes from Spaghetti, two train stations, not far from city centre, massive catchment area both local and slightly further afield.
What we need for it all to come to fruition is a team that can compete with anybody, regularly qualifies for the CL, wins trophies at least every two or three years and has players Sanchez, Silva, Hazzard etc. who we can keep from wanting to jump ship at the first sign of a club perceived as more glamorous making eyes at them.
Barry wanting to go to Liverpool was kind of the death of Lerner's dream in some respects, followed by all the others like Milner and Young. Next time we have a team like that, or Sir Brian's or BFR's, or players like Platt, they must be kept and added to. This would be a post-war first for us and only then will we know for certain our full potential.
I don't see why people are so sure we can't get 60k every week. Do they really think we wouldn't if we were throwing money around like PSG or Man City, or caught up again with the histories of Liverpool or Man Utd?
We have won 1 league title and 1 FA Cup in nearly a hundred years and we still have fantastic support IMO.
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What I do like is the flagged messages and directions on lamp posts starting from the express way bridge on Aston Hall road/Witton/Trinity. Saw them for the very first time as I drove past last night as normally my approach is from Bevintgton road side. Nice touch.
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Really looking forward to the development of the ground and surrounding area. We are in a dream location and setting that we've never really sussed how to utilise. Five minutes from Spaghetti, two train stations, not far from city centre, massive catchment area both local and slightly further afield.
What we need for it all to come to fruition is a team that can compete with anybody, regularly qualifies for the CL, wins trophies at least every two or three years and has players Sanchez, Silva, Hazzard etc. who we can keep from wanting to jump ship at the first sign of a club perceived as more glamorous making eyes at them.
Barry wanting to go to Liverpool was kind of the death of Lerner's dream in some respects, followed by all the others like Milner and Young. Next time we have a team like that, or Sir Brian's or BFR's, or players like Platt, they must be kept and added to. This would be a post-war first for us and only then will we know for certain our full potential.
I don't see why people are so sure we can't get 60k every week. Do they really think we wouldn't if we were throwing money around like PSG or Man City, or caught up again with the histories of Liverpool or Man Utd?
We have won 1 league title and 1 FA Cup in nearly a hundred years and we still have fantastic support IMO.
The above paragraph highlights the main issue. For the Wyness dream to become reality requires a successful team, AVFC are a football club first and foremost and on the back of that, all the commercial razzmatazz follows.
There's lots of good stuff in this plan, but there's a lot of improvement required at the team level first and I don't see Bruce being the manager to inspire this. He might be a good and sincere guy, but he's not a manager for the future IMO.
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If I say the 'L' word, does everyone promise not to immediately jump up and down? Right then:
When Lerner took over we peaked with an average attendance of just over 40,000 in 2007-08 and despite another two top six finished gates slipped from then on. I don't think, as it stands, we could make the next jump towards making a 60,000 seater or anything like that stadium viable. Realistically, it would mean getting over 50,000 at least half a dozen times a year (which we've done in the past) and over forty the rest of the time (which we never have).
The driver to 60,000 crowds is regular Chumps League football. That guarantees a high TV presence both in the UK and globally whcih brings in all the occasional fans that make up the differfence between the loyal local numbers and the tourists.
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Let's be honest regardless of owners everytime we have been on the fringe of something good we have managed to turn the other way and pull out rather than ramming home our advantage. This happened in 1990, 1993, 1996 and in 2009/10. We just didn't do what was necessary to make a very good team into a great team and regressed.😥
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Nobody can say that the ambition wasn't still there in 2008-09; we signed the then-England centre-forward for gawd's sake.
Emile Heskey? I wouldn't say that was a sign of ambition, more that Martin O'Neill had lost what was left of his marbles.
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If I say the 'L' word, does everyone promise not to immediately jump up and down? Right then:
When Lerner took over we peaked with an average attendance of just over 40,000 in 2007-08 and despite another two top six finished gates slipped from then on. I don't think, as it stands, we could make the next jump towards making a 60,000 seater or anything like that stadium viable. Realistically, it would mean getting over 50,000 at least half a dozen times a year (which we've done in the past) and over forty the rest of the time (which we never have).
The driver to 60,000 crowds is regular Chumps League football. That guarantees a high TV presence both in the UK and globally whcih brings in all the occasional fans that make up the differfence between the loyal local numbers and the tourists.
Be careful what you wish for and all that. I’m not sure how comfortable I’d be sitting in a stadium with 60,000 silent fans ( like they are every week at Old Trafford, The Emirates, whatever Man City’s ground is called these days, Stamford Bridge, West Ham etc) all having paid a £1500 for their season tickets, waiting to be entertained by a team of mercenaries. My idea of Hell
It might just be me being an old stick in the mud but I’d sooner sit with 35,000 real Villa fans.
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Really looking forward to the development of the ground and surrounding area. We are in a dream location and setting that we've never really sussed how to utilise. Five minutes from Spaghetti, two train stations, not far from city centre, massive catchment area both local and slightly further afield.
What we need for it all to come to fruition is a team that can compete with anybody, regularly qualifies for the CL, wins trophies at least every two or three years and has players Sanchez, Silva, Hazzard etc. who we can keep from wanting to jump ship at the first sign of a club perceived as more glamorous making eyes at them.
Barry wanting to go to Liverpool was kind of the death of Lerner's dream in some respects, followed by all the others like Milner and Young. Next time we have a team like that, or Sir Brian's or BFR's, or players like Platt, they must be kept and added to. This would be a post-war first for us and only then will we know for certain our full potential.
I don't see why people are so sure we can't get 60k every week. Do they really think we wouldn't if we were throwing money around like PSG or Man City, or caught up again with the histories of Liverpool or Man Utd?
We have won 1 league title and 1 FA Cup in nearly a hundred years and we still have fantastic support IMO.
The above paragraph highlights the main issue. For the Wyness dream to become reality requires a successful team, AVFC are a football club first and foremost and on the back of that, all the commercial razzmatazz follows.
There's lots of good stuff in this plan, but there's a lot of improvement required at the team level first and I don't see Bruce being the manager to inspire this. He might be a good and sincere guy, but he's not a manager for the future IMO.
Agree. We would need Manchester City's / Chelsea's recent levels of success over a sustained period to build up those sort of crowds and that means we would need the level of investment those two clubs have had in that period, if not more.
As others have said he is saying the right things and reading between the lines, Bruce is very much viewed as a short term option to get us up,
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long term football strategy and playing style with the 'Villa engine' driving us forward
i'm looking forward to that happening
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The engine stuff is the only important bit of that for me right now, the commercial stuff is all important and needs to happen alongside those improvements but if we get the playing side wrong then no amount of commercial improvements will help.
The comments about Bruce worry me because he seems far too chummy with him. Bruce has to be seen as an employee first and foremost and has to have very strict criteria that he's judged against, we can't afford for him to slip up because if he does then most of that interview is hot air.
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He's said all the right things I would like it if everything he's said comes to fruition that would mean we have been a successful football club on and off the pitch which is what we all want.
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So just wondering whether the current villa engine is from a princess or an allegro? Maybe Keith could confirm?
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So just wondering whether the current villa engine is from a princess or an allegro? Maybe Keith could confirm?
It'll be the Austin Maestro, surely.
sorry about the link
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/12/31/article-2255282-096FB105000005DC-740_634x378.jpg
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Or maybe a Jaguar, Aston Martin or Morgan?
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So just wondering whether the current villa engine is from a princess or an allegro? Maybe Keith could confirm?
It'll be the Austin Maestro, surely.
sorry about the link
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/12/31/article-2255282-096FB105000005DC-740_634x378.jpg
at least des and Gary look mildly happy with their cars. The rest of them look like they're immediately going to drive away and park them in the cut underneath spag Jcn. Classic pic though Chico - well done!
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So just wondering whether the current villa engine is from a princess or an allegro? Maybe Keith could confirm?
It'll be the Austin Maestro, surely.
sorry about the link
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/12/31/article-2255282-096FB105000005DC-740_634x378.jpg
at least des and Gary look mildly happy with their cars. The rest of them look like they're immediately going to drive away and park them in the cut underneath spag Jcn. Classic pic though Chico - well done!
Ken McNaught sent his back because he couldn't fit his dogs in the boot
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Sounds like a 'my gates wouldn't open' type of excuse
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A bit late, didn't read it until 10 minutes ago. Comes over very well and a good read, but... well we will see
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Interesting read but short term can't they sort out the seats in the North stand. Very little room up there.
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If I say the 'L' word, does everyone promise not to immediately jump up and down? Right then:
When Lerner took over we peaked with an average attendance of just over 40,000 in 2007-08 and despite another two top six finished gates slipped from then on. I don't think, as it stands, we could make the next jump towards making a 60,000 seater or anything like that stadium viable. Realistically, it would mean getting over 50,000 at least half a dozen times a year (which we've done in the past) and over forty the rest of the time (which we never have).
The driver to 60,000 crowds is regular Chumps League football. That guarantees a high TV presence both in the UK and globally whcih brings in all the occasional fans that make up the differfence between the loyal local numbers and the tourists.
Be careful what you wish for and all that. I’m not sure how comfortable I’d be sitting in a stadium with 60,000 silent fans ( like they are every week at Old Trafford, The Emirates, whatever Man City’s ground is called these days, Stamford Bridge, West Ham etc) all having paid a £1500 for their season tickets, waiting to be entertained by a team of mercenaries. My idea of Hell
It might just be me being an old stick in the mud but I’d sooner sit with 35,000 real Villa fans.
I'm not advocating it, Chico; just trying to undersrtand it.
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If I say the 'L' word, does everyone promise not to immediately jump up and down? Right then:
When Lerner took over we peaked with an average attendance of just over 40,000 in 2007-08 and despite another two top six finished gates slipped from then on. I don't think, as it stands, we could make the next jump towards making a 60,000 seater or anything like that stadium viable. Realistically, it would mean getting over 50,000 at least half a dozen times a year (which we've done in the past) and over forty the rest of the time (which we never have).
The driver to 60,000 crowds is regular Chumps League football. That guarantees a high TV presence both in the UK and globally whcih brings in all the occasional fans that make up the differfence between the loyal local numbers and the tourists.
Be careful what you wish for and all that. I’m not sure how comfortable I’d be sitting in a stadium with 60,000 silent fans ( like they are every week at Old Trafford, The Emirates, whatever Man City’s ground is called these days, Stamford Bridge, West Ham etc) all having paid a £1500 for their season tickets, waiting to be entertained by a team of mercenaries. My idea of Hell
It might just be me being an old stick in the mud but I’d sooner sit with 35,000 real Villa fans.
I'm not advocating it, Chico; just trying to undersrtand it.
Unfortunately, you can't have one without the other. Even in the O'Neill days of 40,000 gates there were plenty of "Where's the Holte end" fans around.
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Interesting read but short term can't they sort out the seats in the North stand. Very little room up there.
Yes, why not put Armchairs or sofas in... The DFS Stand (or DFS Sit)
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Right now I'd say the engine is on a work bench and the mechanics are stood around with spanners scratching their heads.
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The engine stuff is the only important bit of that for me right now, the commercial stuff is all important and needs to happen alongside those improvements but if we get the playing side wrong then no amount of commercial improvements will help.
The comments about Bruce worry me because he seems far too chummy with him. Bruce has to be seen as an employee first and foremost and has to have very strict criteria that he's judged against, we can't afford for him to slip up because if he does then most of that interview is hot air.
The comments about Bruce didn't come across as chummy to me. I think he was just pointing out that they had a good working relationship and that he enjoyed working with him, which is good. If the time comes that they have to move Bruce on, the fact that Wyness likes him won't have any bearing on Dr Tony's decision.
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I hope this Steve Round fella is good, or we're buggered.
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The engine stuff is the only important bit of that for me right now, the commercial stuff is all important and needs to happen alongside those improvements but if we get the playing side wrong then no amount of commercial improvements will help.
The comments about Bruce worry me because he seems far too chummy with him. Bruce has to be seen as an employee first and foremost and has to have very strict criteria that he's judged against, we can't afford for him to slip up because if he does then most of that interview is hot air.
The comments about Bruce didn't come across as chummy to me. I think he was just pointing out that they had a good working relationship and that he enjoyed working with him, which is good. If the time comes that they have to move Bruce on, the fact that Wyness likes him won't have any bearing on Dr Tony's decision.
Really?
Wyness loves Bruce’s honest approach – and ebullient personality.
“He’s revered in football. His black book is second to none. He is well respected. That’s because he’s a good man.
He's honest, he's got good contacts, he's respected, he's a good man (all things I'd agree with) but nothing about his record at the club or how his management skills are making us a better team, that's why it seems to chummy, it's about him as a person not about him as an employee.
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The engine stuff is the only important bit of that for me right now, the commercial stuff is all important and needs to happen alongside those improvements but if we get the playing side wrong then no amount of commercial improvements will help.
The comments about Bruce worry me because he seems far too chummy with him. Bruce has to be seen as an employee first and foremost and has to have very strict criteria that he's judged against, we can't afford for him to slip up because if he does then most of that interview is hot air.
The comments about Bruce didn't come across as chummy to me. I think he was just pointing out that they had a good working relationship and that he enjoyed working with him, which is good. If the time comes that they have to move Bruce on, the fact that Wyness likes him won't have any bearing on Dr Tony's decision.
Really?
Wyness loves Bruce’s honest approach – and ebullient personality.
“He’s revered in football. His black book is second to none. He is well respected. That’s because he’s a good man.
He's honest, he's got good contacts, he's respected, he's a good man (all things I'd agree with) but nothing about his record at the club or how his management skills are making us a better team, that's why it seems to chummy, it's about him as a person not about him as an employee.
I'm sure they would have sacked him by now if they had any doubts on that score.
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long term football strategy and playing style with the 'Villa engine' driving us forward
i'm looking forward to that happening
For a long term strategy I'd like us to develop a style of play that is discernible for 90 mins, for just one game.
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long term football strategy and playing style with the 'Villa engine' driving us forward
i'm looking forward to that happening
For a long term strategy I'd like us to develop a style of play that is discernible for 90 mins, for just one game.
the long term playing strategy engine will not happen under Bruce as he has never had a defined style in his entire managerial career
that's why i'm looking forward to it happening
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Keith Wyness (https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2017/09/05/the-big-interview-keith-wyness)
“I have been very pleased with our business in this window.
“I know there’ll have been a big rush of fans saying on Deadline Day evening ‘oh we didn’t do anything.’ Well I am pleased we didn’t need to do anything. I don’t want to have to do things on the last day. I think a lot of clubs who are scrambling around on the last day have got it wrong in many ways.
“We did a lot of our business last January, never mind this transfer window.
“So we have now got the squad balanced. We know it hasn’t been the start we had hoped for but I do believe we are in a very good position now to really push on.
“In terms of Deadline Day and outgoings, it went right until 11pm. We didn’t get things across the line that we had hoped.
“In terms of potential incomings, there were a couple of big names in the mix. We’re not going to divulge their names.
I know it's a fluff piece, but this sort of talk concerns me, if I'm honest. Firstly, you were happy you didn't have to do things on the last day, but you were trying anyway? And I don't care about "big names", I care about good players.
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long term football strategy and playing style with the 'Villa engine' driving us forward
i'm looking forward to that happening
For a long term strategy I'd like us to develop a style of play that is discernible for 90 mins, for just one game.
the long term playing strategy engine will not happen under Bruce as he has never had a defined style in his entire managerial career
that's why i'm looking forward to it happening
John e, I'm with you John, can't see it happening anytime soon which is what I was alluding to, Bruce has had virtually a season with the team and I've still no idea how we play. We may suddenly move the ball around for a period but it is never sustained over 90 mins never mind 2 -3 games or even longer.
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Sounds good but its a case of show me do not tell me please utv
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So just wondering whether the current villa engine is from a princess or an allegro? Maybe Keith could confirm?
It'll be the Austin Maestro, surely.
sorry about the link
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/12/31/article-2255282-096FB105000005DC-740_634x378.jpg
at least des and Gary look mildly happy with their cars. The rest of them look like they're immediately going to drive away and park them in the cut underneath spag Jcn. Classic pic though Chico - well done!
Ken McNaught sent his back because he couldn't fit his dogs in the boot
I saw Peter Withe driving his in Solihull once.
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Villa employee in talking sense shock. It's good to hear they have a vision and are working to implement it. But it's quite another story to put it into practice and make it work. At least he seems to know what is required, unlike the previous regimes.
It's hard to say if we could fill a 60k stadium. It's not that long ago that clubs like Man City, Newcastle weren't attracting great crowds - even Arsenal pre-Wenger would not have anticipated too many over 50k gates. In most cases a combination of a sustained period of entertaining football, bums on seats players, and successes have helped to increase demand, especially among football "tourists" and glory hunters, but also next generation fans. The three 6th place finishes under pubehead never really delivered great entertainment, bums on seats players (Heskey? Harewood?) or, in my view, the promise of a genuine challenge at the CL. I think people could see the approach and players brought in meant there was a glass ceiling in terms of both style and achievement. Villa, along with other Midlands clubs, have consistently failed to realise the potential of the club or exploit the potential market and fan base - which is huge, even locally.
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I think we've been here before with each of the last three owners - ambitious plans to increase & improve VP, yet the day we bring down the North Stand is as far away as it has ever been. Like us all on here, I'd much rather see a team playing winning football regularly before we even think about expanding a ground we barely ever fill as it stands. If we ever do get to the stage whereby the demand is there for a 60k stadium, we'll have to sacrifice a fair bit of what many feel is the core staples of being a Villa fan are, ie dyed-in-the-wool long suffering believers, and instead embrace the integration of the 'global customer' en masse ... and I'm not too sure I want to see people taking selfies/photos when corners are being taken - not to mention a sharp increase in half & half scarves. I guess it's a case of be careful what you wish for...
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As mentioned above re:Bruce, this is the bit that concerns me...
Steve Round has been an invaluable sounding board for Steve Bruce too. He’s had 20 unbroken years of coaching in the top level. He’s worked for Man Utd and England. He’s one of the great brains of the game at the moment. He and Steve have a great relationship. They are talking football day in and day out.
Steve Bruce is one the great brains of the game? Really?! REALLY???!!!
edit: my mistake...it looks as though he's actually talking about Steve Round being one of the great brains of the game as he's coached at Man Utd and England (didn't know this until I just Googled him!).
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The engine stuff is the only important bit of that for me right now, the commercial stuff is all important and needs to happen alongside those improvements but if we get the playing side wrong then no amount of commercial improvements will help.
The comments about Bruce worry me because he seems far too chummy with him. Bruce has to be seen as an employee first and foremost and has to have very strict criteria that he's judged against, we can't afford for him to slip up because if he does then most of that interview is hot air.
The comments about Bruce didn't come across as chummy to me. I think he was just pointing out that they had a good working relationship and that he enjoyed working with him, which is good. If the time comes that they have to move Bruce on, the fact that Wyness likes him won't have any bearing on Dr Tony's decision.
Really?
Wyness loves Bruce’s honest approach – and ebullient personality.
“He’s revered in football. His black book is second to none. He is well respected. That’s because he’s a good man.
He's honest, he's got good contacts, he's respected, he's a good man (all things I'd agree with) but nothing about his record at the club or how his management skills are making us a better team, that's why it seems to chummy, it's about him as a person not about him as an employee.
I'm sure they would have sacked him by now if they had any doubts on that score.
If he wasn't so matey with Wyness the Doc would have binned Bruce already.
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long term football strategy and playing style with the 'Villa engine' driving us forward
i'm looking forward to that happening
For a long term strategy I'd like us to develop a style of play that is discernible for 90 mins, for just one game.
the long term playing strategy engine will not happen under Bruce as he has never had a defined style in his entire managerial career
that's why i'm looking forward to it happening
Exactly John. How can you can have a plan for a continued style, when you have an old-school manager with no defined style of player. There's very little thought behind transfers, formations and style of play at the moment.
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If all the other stuff is true then they see Bruceand his signings as a short term answer to a short term problem. I would prefer us to start the engine now, rather than shoving it in the boot of a car, driving it to where you might start it and then realise there are teething problems with the engine.
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I think we've been here before with each of the last three owners - ambitious plans to increase & improve VP, yet the day we bring down the North Stand is as far away as it has ever been. Like us all on here, I'd much rather see a team playing winning football regularly before we even think about expanding a ground we barely ever fill as it stands. If we ever do get to the stage whereby the demand is there for a 60k stadium, we'll have to sacrifice a fair bit of what many feel is the core staples of being a Villa fan are, ie dyed-in-the-wool long suffering believers, and instead embrace the integration of the 'global customer' en masse ... and I'm not too sure I want to see people taking selfies/photos when corners are being taken - not to mention a sharp increase in half & half scarves. I guess it's a case of be careful what you wish for...
When it comes to selfies, photos of the ground and videos being taken during corners, free kicks and any attack on goal, all of those horses bolted a fair while back.
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It's great to have ambition but don't tell me, show me. 60,000, yes please! But please show me.
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It's great to have ambition but don't tell me, show me. 60,000, yes please! But please show me.
Much as it pains me to ask the question, is there enough inherent support in the Midlands for a team (which would have to be us) getting regular 50,000+ crowds? The area hasn't had regular success in decades, with nearly all titles going to London or the North West.
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Personally if I worked at Villa I'd be concentrating on us being able to take a throw in to one of our own players before we worry too much about how big the car park has to be for the new North Stand.
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Personally if I worked at Villa I'd be concentrating on us being able to take a throw in to one of our own players before we worry too much about how big the car park has to be for the new North Stand.
Ha those throw ins are a mystery aren't they
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After year after year of falling out of love with modern foo£ball in general, on top of year after year of the club in particular that I love kicking me continually in the guts and completely and utterly taking away all hope and optimism it is good to have all of my faith now restored with the concept of the "Villa Engine". Thanks.
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If all the other stuff is true then they see Bruceand his signings as a short term answer to a short term problem. I would prefer us to start the engine now, rather than shoving it in the boot of a car, driving it to where you might start it and then realise there are teething problems with the engine.
We're driving through salt water marshland at the moment. Corrosive to a finely tuned V8 and the bodywork. A rugged 3L diesel is what's required to plough our way out.
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If all the other stuff is true then they see Bruceand his signings as a short term answer to a short term problem. I would prefer us to start the engine now, rather than shoving it in the boot of a car, driving it to where you might start it and then realise there are teething problems with the engine.
We're driving through salt water marshland at the moment. Corrosive to a finely tuned V8 and the bodywork. A rugged 3L diesel is what's required to plough our way out.
Shame we've got a Honda Jazz doing 50mph in the middle lane.
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It's great to have ambition but don't tell me, show me. 60,000, yes please! But please show me.
Much as it pains me to ask the question, is there enough inherent support in the Midlands for a team (which would have to be us) getting regular 50,000+ crowds? The area hasn't had regular success in decades, with nearly all titles going to London or the North West.
I don't think there is. I think this is total cloud cuckoo land.
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Interesting read but short term can't they sort out the seats in the North stand. Very little room up there.
Only by giving it the long overdue bulldozer treatment
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It's great to have ambition but don't tell me, show me. 60,000, yes please! But please show me.
Much as it pains me to ask the question, is there enough inherent support in the Midlands for a team (which would have to be us) getting regular 50,000+ crowds? The area hasn't had regular success in decades, with nearly all titles going to London or the North West.
I don't think there is. I think this is total cloud cuckoo land.
You think a team in Birmingham with support all over the city and the wider region that averaged 40k a few years ago for a 6th placed team with, as has been said on here, no bums-on-seats players, couldn't attract over 50k with the type of players and success Man City and Chelsea have? Because they often got worse crowds than us when they were as shit as we are.
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We could do it but we would need CL every year, regular trophies etc. We get 30K+ as a mediocre division 2 side, so not that hard to imagine 50K if we're regularly top 2 or 3 and winning cups. Getting to that level is another matter as it would mean sustained success that we haven't managed for a century.
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A little while ago both Chelsea and Man City had not had much, in fact any, success for well over a century.
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It's easy to spout these words and have a plan in place, however these kind of statements conveniently ignore what all the other clubs are doing...particularly those that occupy the top 6 or 7 positions in the league year in year out. It's going to be a mammoth task, huge investment, a large turnover of players, a new manager and a lot of time to even get close to where they aspire to get to. There are no shortcuts when our opponents are investing and developing at a greater rate than we are.
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On reflection I am happy Wyness is talking about a Villa way of playing football or "engine" I am also happy he is bigging up the idea of us expanding.
Sure they may look foolish in a year but you know what it beats the drum beat of cost cutting and balancing the books we have heard for years.
I will take Brummie Dortmund or some such.
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It's easy to spout these words and have a plan in place, however these kind of statements conveniently ignore what all the other clubs are doing...particularly those that occupy the top 6 or 7 positions in the league year in year out. It's going to be a mammoth task, huge investment, a large turnover of players, a new manager and a lot of time to even get close to where they aspire to get to. There are no shortcuts when our opponents are investing and developing at a greater rate than we are.
Indeed. When Lerner said he was going to take us back to the top I said it would cost him hundreds of millions of pounds for years and years. It appears that while most of us knew that, he appeared surprised by it.. Or maybe it was the collapse in his fortune that did for us.
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I had a couple of Leeds fans taking the piss about a 60k stadium last night ... they think they are a shoe-in for promotion this season.
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The difference with Citeh and Chelsea has been having an almost bottomless pit of money, ditto United from a different source. We would have to do it more organically like Arsenal did and more recently Spurs - who were no better than us 6 years ago. Everton are looking to do something similar with investment on the pitch and in a bigger stadium. It will be interesting to see how they do in a smaller city if it comes off.
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If all the other stuff is true then they see Bruceand his signings as a short term answer to a short term problem. I would prefer us to start the engine now, rather than shoving it in the boot of a car, driving it to where you might start it and then realise there are teething problems with the engine.
That is the thing. I understand the vision, but why not start it now? Southampton and Swansea both implemented their 'blueprint' in what is now League One and it was an approach that took them to and has kept them in the top flight (though they might be in trouble this season). There is a lot of talk in that interview about a new vibrant approach, but I just don't see how Bruce and some of the current players fit into that philosophy.
I guess the iikes of Bruce, Terry, Whelan etc. are seen very much as short term options to get us up and we may see a different approach after that.
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After year after year of falling out of love with modern foo£ball in general, on top of year after year of the club in particular that I love kicking me continually in the guts and completely and utterly taking away all hope and optimism it is good to have all of my faith now restored with the concept of the "Villa Engine". Thanks.
Can't decide if your being genuine or sarcastic
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I had a couple of Leeds fans taking the piss about a 60k stadium last night ... they think they are a shoe-in for promotion this season.
leeds utd- oo are dey?
Idea for a milk marketing ad. Save a bit of cash and go with a proven formula.
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I had a couple of Leeds fans taking the piss about a 60k stadium last night ... they think they are a shoe-in for promotion this season.
They've been saying that for years. As for the 60,000 stadium idea tell them bollocks! I'm convinced that a period of sustained success at Aston Villa would draw very big crowds. Personally I'd be happy with a redeveloped North Stand bringing the capacity closer to 50,000 with the option to expand the Witton Lane stand. I think you'll have the last laugh over those cocky Leeds fans. How often do they fill that shit hole stadium of theirs?
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The only Villa Engine I'm interested in is the one being revved up by the African Car Reverser.
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Whatever we've been able to average crowd wise in the past is irrelevant. To be a success in the future you need to both project the image of being a 'big club' and to have the finances to support it. To that end you need to have both a stadium of 60k and to be able to fill it. It's the board's job to find a way of doing it.
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If Dr Tony is serious about getting into the Champions League there may be an argument to redevelop the North Stand now before the crowds start flooding in.
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In the coming decades, you might not need to be regular winners of silverware or be in the Champions League to sell out a 60k capacity stadium enough times a season against successful opposition to make it worth building.
You might only need a reasonable side able to put up a decent show against the top six or eight clubs in the country - clubs that pull in crowds of people who just want to see the stars of the Premier League on a fitting stage. For those matches unlikely to sell out, a section of the ground could be closed, just as we have closed off the upper Trinity for the Championship.
A mate of mine lives in London, but tickets for PL games in London were either too expensive or too scarce. He's not a massive fan of a particular team but likes football. So when Villa were in the PL, he would occasionally buy tickets to watch us against the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea, etc. He could always find a cheap train up here. The beer and food is cheaper than London. VP is a great ground. It's a day out for him. Well, it was.
When HS2 is ready, it will only increase options from the capital to Birmingham. And then there's the catchment area around the Midlands. And then there's tourists from China.
I wouldn't be surprised to see neutral areas at some PL grounds in the future, for people who come to enjoy the whole spectacle, to watch the opposing fans do their singing, to eat pies, wear half-and-half scarves, take selfies and enjoy the game whoever wins. If it's Villa Park, they might use the proposed facilities and attractions around the ground, visit a stately home, venture into the city, make a weekend of it?
I could be wrong, but I wonder if Dr Tony's thinking for the long term might be along these lines?
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All this talk of 60k capacity and Champions League is great, but I dream of a VP where you can get a pint at half time without having to start queuing on 35 minutes and actually get served before the teams re-appear. I live in hope.
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In the coming decades, you might not need to be regular winners of silverware or be in the Champions League to sell out a 60k capacity stadium enough times a season against successful opposition to make it worth building.
You might only need a reasonable side able to put up a decent show against the top six or eight clubs in the country - clubs that pull in crowds of people who just want to see the stars of the Premier League on a fitting stage. For those matches unlikely to sell out, a section of the ground could be closed, just as we have closed off the upper Trinity for the Championship.
A mate of mine lives in London, but tickets for PL games in London were either too expensive or too scarce. He's not a massive fan of a particular team but likes football. So when Villa were in the PL, he would occasionally buy tickets to watch us against the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea, etc. He could always find a cheap train up here. The beer and food is cheaper than London. VP is a great ground. It's a day out for him. Well, it was.
When HS2 is ready, it will only increase options from the capital to Birmingham. And then there's the catchment area around the Midlands. And then there's tourists from China.
I wouldn't be surprised to see neutral areas at some PL grounds in the future, for people who come to enjoy the whole spectacle, to watch the opposing fans do their singing, to eat pies, wear half-and-half scarves, take selfies and enjoy the game whoever wins. If it's Villa Park, they might use the proposed facilities and attractions around the ground, visit a stately home, venture into the city, make a weekend of it?
I could be wrong, but I wonder if Dr Tony's thinking for the long term might be along these lines?
I think the opportunities in Birmingham were always part of his overall plan.
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In the coming decades, you might not need to be regular winners of silverware or be in the Champions League to sell out a 60k capacity stadium enough times a season against successful opposition to make it worth building.
You might only need a reasonable side able to put up a decent show against the top six or eight clubs in the country - clubs that pull in crowds of people who just want to see the stars of the Premier League on a fitting stage. For those matches unlikely to sell out, a section of the ground could be closed, just as we have closed off the upper Trinity for the Championship.
A mate of mine lives in London, but tickets for PL games in London were either too expensive or too scarce. He's not a massive fan of a particular team but likes football. So when Villa were in the PL, he would occasionally buy tickets to watch us against the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea, etc. He could always find a cheap train up here. The beer and food is cheaper than London. VP is a great ground. It's a day out for him. Well, it was.
When HS2 is ready, it will only increase options from the capital to Birmingham. And then there's the catchment area around the Midlands. And then there's tourists from China.
I wouldn't be surprised to see neutral areas at some PL grounds in the future, for people who come to enjoy the whole spectacle, to watch the opposing fans do their singing, to eat pies, wear half-and-half scarves, take selfies and enjoy the game whoever wins. If it's Villa Park, they might use the proposed facilities and attractions around the ground, visit a stately home, venture into the city, make a weekend of it?
I could be wrong, but I wonder if Dr Tony's thinking for the long term might be along these lines?
Like it or not I think the half and half scarf brigade are a necessity for clubs to reach the top end of the sport. I remember reading something a couple of years back that was basically saying that when you account for merchandising and the package (all purchased from the club) a fan coming from somewhere like China to watch 1 game is worth more than a season ticket holder.
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One of the things I learned hanging around street corners on matchday is that once a Villa Park crowd gets above 35k the number of Villa supporters doesnt go up much.
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If Brum is confirmed as the Commonwealth Games city for 2022 (as today it was chosen for U.K. choice over Liverpool), will VP development be a required or will the board want it ready for the games? Anyone know?
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All this talk of 60k capacity and Champions League is great, but I dream of a VP where you can get a pint at half time without having to start queuing on 35 minutes and actually get served before the teams re-appear. I live in hope.
Great point.
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It's great to have ambition but don't tell me, show me. 60,000, yes please! But please show me.
I take your point but if they were not telling us there would be others complaining about a lack of communication.
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One of the things I learned hanging around street corners on matchday is that once a Villa Park crowd gets above 35k the number of Villa supporters doesnt go up much.
It's a good point and it's likely that the teams who get big crowds are similar. We'd certainly have people wearing claret and blue (maybe in half and half scarves) but they'd be glory hunters too. Not many teams get big crowds unless they are having a decent level of success...
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When I was regularly sitting in the Upper Trinity it never ceased to amaze me how many tourists were up there, and not just for the 'glamour' games, for Wigan, Blackpool type games as well. And they'd often be decked out in newly bought Villa merchandise with more than carrier 1 bag full of stuff from the Villa shop.
And as Dave says, from standing outside for a couple of hours selling the fanzine you really do realise how many day trippers, trips for junior football teams, neutrals etc, were at Villa games.
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Absolutely and the number of Scandinavian visitors too for particular games is something.
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If Brum is confirmed as the Commonwealth Games city for 2022 (as today it was chosen for U.K. choice over Liverpool), will VP development be a required or will the board want it ready for the games? Anyone know?
Probably isn't really needed, there's no football at the Commonwealth Games so there's only really the rugby 7's that could be played there.
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They've already said that Alexander Stadium will be temporarily expanded to accommodate 40,000 for the main events. Villa Park is just hosting the Rugby Sevens.
No plans yet for St Andrews. I'm sure they could organise a car boot sale or something.
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The Olbiyun prick that works for me is often bemoaning their away support. He won't concede ours is far better obviously but some of his comments are interesting.
Their away followings are terrible. And I don't blame them for that. Watching Pulis set out a team to time waste from the first minute must be hard on the soul.
The interesting bit was that a fair number are not Olbiyun fans at some games. They will sell tickets to any bugger that wants one and he has been agog at how that in tandem with the £30 price cap means they end up with shit loads of "EPL" day trippers in the away end when they go to London or the more successful clubs. Funnily enough, they find it hard to beef out their allocation with these sales when they go to Burnley.
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If Brum is confirmed as the Commonwealth Games city for 2022 (as today it was chosen for U.K. choice over Liverpool), will VP development be a required or will the board want it ready for the games? Anyone know?
Probably isn't really needed, there's no football at the Commonwealth Games so there's only really the rugby 7's that could be played there.
Yeah, just read that it will be the rugga. Maybe Tone wants to improve the stadium to show it off on a big stage.
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They've already said that Alexander Stadium will be temporarily expanded to accommodate 40,000 for the main events. Villa Park is just hosting the Rugby Sevens.
No plans yet for St Andrews. I'm sure they could organise a car boot sale or something.
Permanently improved and expanded to 25000ish and then temporary expansion to 40-50000 was in the bid.
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The only Villa Engine I'm interested in is the one being revved up by the African Car Reverser.
Great
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My memory of that time was that the Barry transfer request (along with signings that weren't of perceived top four quality) started to make some people lose belief in the new regime. Lerner simply couldn't maintain the initial positive momentum of the takeover and O'Neill appointment and the quick upturn in attendances just as quickly melted away.
My memory is that in January 2009 we were convinced we were about to put in a proper challenge for the title and the Champions League was a formality. The crowds still went down, as they did the year after when we were still in top four contention for much of the season and still spending big money. No-one, at least on here, was talking lack of ambition then.
Did they Dave?
Games from January 2009 that season:
West Brom- 41, 757, full house.
Wigan- 41, 766, full house and very good crowd considering Wigan would've probably taken less than 1k.
Chelsea- 42, 585, full house.
Stoke, 39, 641, O.k a bit of a dip but that was I think from memory a Sunday lunchtime game and it was 3 days after Moscow and possibly a few fans had been hacked off by how we treated that game.
Spurs, 41, 205. Back up to a virtual sell out.
Everton, 40, 100. Not quite a sell out but this was an Easter Sunday game.
West Ham, 39, 535. Season starting to drift now but nearly 40k for West Ham was still good go. At this point we'd won 1 game in about 11 games I think.
Hull, 39, 607. Surprised how high this attendance was as I remember they changed this game very late to a Monday night and so I couldn't go as I was back at Uni at the time.
Newcastle, 42, 585. Back to a complete sell out to see Newcastle relegated.
So even though our season dramatically collapsed over that time and we only won three of those home games we still had 40k + crowds in all but three of them and the others were 39k.
For the record I struggle to see us selling 60k much even if we were ridiculously successful, 52k is more debatable.
We would do neither if we were 8-10th in the premier league. Ticket price costs would also be important, our fanbase isn't as affluent as many London clubs obviously. Both Manchester clubs keep their matchday prices relatively low.
I'm pleased the ambition is there at least. Many clubs are increasing capacity so when we get back to the prem 42k will actually be seen as one of the smaller capacities.
It will all fall apart if it dosen't translate onto the pitch of course so I reserve judgement given the hard work we're making of even attempting a promotion challenge at this level.
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The only Villa Engine I'm interested in is the one being revved up by the African Car Reverser.
Great
The African Car Reverser is carrying the flag for Botswana at the opening ceremony.
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The only Villa Engine I'm interested in is the one being revved up by the African Car Reverser.
Great
The African Car Reverser is carrying the flag for Botswana at the opening ceremony.
Wearing a claret shirt. That would work.
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Re:60k attendance...I doubt we'd sell out every game, but if we were consistently in the top 6 with a team full of top players then I could easily see attendances over 50k each week. I would imagine there would be a strong promotional campaign, cheaper tickets and a rebrand required to support this though.
One of the things that I do like about going away to Man City is that they have a full match day experience going on outside the ground...from entertainment to bars to quality fast food outlets to stores. The whole set up is very consumer friendly, and these things easily translate to a day out and a much better match day experience.
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Re:60k attendance...I doubt we'd sell out every game, but if we were consistently in the top 6 with a team full of top players then I could easily see attendances over 50k each week. I would imagine there would be a strong promotional campaign, cheaper tickets and a rebrand required to support this though.
One of the things that I do like about going away to Man City is that they have a full match day experience going on outside the ground...from entertainment to bars to quality fast food outlets to stores. The whole set up is very consumer friendly, and these things easily translate to a day out and a much better match day experience.
Yet that's what we had only a few years ago and still struggled to sell all our tickets.
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Football has moved on a lot even since a few years back and we didn't have a team full of top players under MON. We need to become "fashionable", be consistently challenging for honours, playing an attractive style of football, have genuine top quality International players and the image/branding of the club needs to be improved significantly. That's a long way off where we were a few years ago with the string of 6th placed finishes.
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Yep, Mellberg, Laursen, Barry, Hendrie, Baros, Carew and Petrov was a shit set of players at that time.
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I think you're missing my point completely Drummond...I'm not arguing that they weren't any good (obviously as we wouldn't have finished so high up) but they weren't bums on seats types of players which is what we need to attract that size of crowd.
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Football has moved on a lot even since a few years back and we didn't have a team full of top players under MON. We need to become "fashionable", be consistently challenging for honours, playing an attractive style of football, have genuine top quality International players and the image/branding of the club needs to be improved significantly. That's a long way off where we were a few years ago with the string of 6th placed finishes.
I disagree. The media loves us for a while, we had a team full of cracking players, and the fans flocked to the games. Sadly it ended in tears.
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Yep, Mellberg, Laursen, Barry, Hendrie, Baros, Carew and Petrov was a shit set of players at that time.
Many of those were inherited.
Point being made is we needed to lift us from 6th a sort of match winner we could hang our hat on to win tight games instead of drawing 7/8 a season in those times. Our "star" signing in 2009 was Stewart Downing with a broken leg.
Spurs finished 4th in 2010 and then went and signed Van Der Vaart. Around that time we MON confirmed we wanted Snejider but he went to Inter Milan and won the treble.
I imagine Dave was tongue in cheek but Heskey was well past his peak when he signed as we saw with being lumbered with him for 3 and a half years.
We have signed big names but they've tended to be years past their best (Ginola, Schmeichel,Terry, Micah Richards, Lescott) or up and coming players like Young.
Darren Bent was probably the last big name we signed in his peak. If we can get back to top half in the prem in the next few years can we go out and buy a couple of established internationals in the 25-28 age range who can lift the team up in mentality and ability.
Man. City finished 5th in 2010, signed Yaya Toure and David Silva that summer and won the league two years later.
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Again, you're missing the point which is the type of players required to bridge the gap between 40k to 60k.
edit: that was in reply to SH.
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Yep, Mellberg, Laursen, Barry, Hendrie, Baros, Carew and Petrov was a shit set of players at that time.
And none were the type of player that alone would sell season tickets. Collymore is probably the closest we've made in my time. We've signed lots of good players, some have become great with us, but we've never made a 'marquee' signing in my 40+ years.
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Again, you're missing the point which is the type of players required to bridge the gap between 40k to 60k.
edit: that was in reply to SH.
You've got to walk before you can run and all that.
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At least you get it PWS ;)
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Again, you're missing the point which is the type of players required to bridge the gap between 40k to 60k.
edit: that was in reply to SH.
You've got to walk before you can run and all that.
You should email that to Wyness ;)
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For the level we're at Terry was a marquee signing.
A lot of us didn't like him coming in but he unquestionable sold a few more season tickets and shirts.
Harder to do that the higher you go up as the going rate would be minimum 100-150k a week for good international players but when you think of the wages we've paid to bog standard players I wouldn't have an issue with it.
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Not really, he's 38 and rarely played for a year. That would be a marquee signing for Rotherham, not Aston Villa imo. A marquee signing is a top class player at or near his peak. He's raised the media interest but that doesn't make him a marquee player for me. His name might be on a lot of shirts, but the vast majority would have bought a shirt anyway I reckon.
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Yep, Mellberg, Laursen, Barry, Hendrie, Baros, Carew and Petrov was a shit set of players at that time.
And none were the type of player that alone would sell season tickets. Collymore is probably the closest we've made in my time. We've signed lots of good players, some have become great with us, but we've never made a 'marquee' signing in my 40+ years.
I guess you're right; McGrath, Bent, Angel, Ginola, Merson, Carbone, Terry, Milner are the sort that were probably expected to by the top brass but the reality is that they don't. Terry has clearly sold a lot of letter Rs though.
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Bent is an interesting one, a great goalscorer and our record signing but not the type of player that would sell lots of season tickets.
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Current capacity is 42,500 with 26,500 in Holte End and Trinity and other half holding 16,000.
To get to 60,000 I would mirror the size of the existing stands to get to 53,000 and join up the right side corner of the Holte End with the new McGrath stand to add a further 5000. Add some boxes in the opposite corner and screens where they are now.
The ground to retain look and feel of separate stands but with common design features. Currently feels half completed. Outside use predominantly brick and claret and blue metalwork as a highlight not great sheets of warehouse cladding.
Holte and McGrath cheap and cheerful villa, trinity for prawn sandwiches and kids, north end away fans and day trippers.
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with the cladding I am sure we could mask this with Murals of villa Legends
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Bent is an interesting one, a great goalscorer and our record signing but not the type of player that would sell lots of season tickets.
It got people massively excited at the time. Same feeling for me on the night we signed Carew and Ashley Young. Hardly any signings since have had the same impact.
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I'm very disappointed that the "Big" in the thread title isn't in capital letters.
Legion would never make a tabloid journalist.
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Easy. New Holte End like Dortmund. 20,000 ( back
to its c rightful capacity) . That's now up to c50,000. Then if needed new North Stand to add another 6,000. I think 56,000. That's about right.
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Bent is an interesting one, a great goalscorer and our record signing but not the type of player that would sell lots of season tickets.
It got people massively excited at the time. Same feeling for me on the night we signed Carew and Ashley Young. Hardly any signings since have had the same impact.
Most really liked the signing, I doubt we sold many ST though just because Darren Bent was a Villa player.
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Really looking forward to the development of the ground and surrounding area. We are in a dream location and setting that we've never really sussed how to utilise. Five minutes from Spaghetti, two train stations, not far from city centre, massive catchment area both local and slightly further afield.
What we need for it all to come to fruition is a team that can compete with anybody, regularly qualifies for the CL, wins trophies at least every two or three years and has players Sanchez, Silva, Hazzard etc. who we can keep from wanting to jump ship at the first sign of a club perceived as more glamorous making eyes at them.
Barry wanting to go to Liverpool was kind of the death of Lerner's dream in some respects, followed by all the others like Milner and Young. Next time we have a team like that, or Sir Brian's or BFR's, or players like Platt, they must be kept and added to. This would be a post-war first for us and only then will we know for certain our full potential.
I don't see why people are so sure we can't get 60k every week. Do they really think we wouldn't if we were throwing money around like PSG or Man City, or caught up again with the histories of Liverpool or Man Utd?
We have won 1 league title and 1 FA Cup in nearly a hundred years and we still have fantastic support IMO.
Agree 100% Percy, I remember saying to a scouser some years back who was bragging about size of club that if we'd won the league 17 times in something like 30 years like they had we'd need a stadium that held 110,000 like the great man Rinder planned pre WW1
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Bent is an interesting one, a great goalscorer and our record signing but not the type of player that would sell lots of season tickets.
It got people massively excited at the time. Same feeling for me on the night we signed Carew and Ashley Young. Hardly any signings since have had the same impact.
Most really liked the signing, I doubt we sold many ST though just because Darren Bent was a Villa player.
Probably because of when he was signed and the reason for it. If it had been in the summer, when we were trying to push on from 6th, rather than trying to avoid relegation in January....
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Really looking forward to the development of the ground and surrounding area. We are in a dream location and setting that we've never really sussed how to utilise. Five minutes from Spaghetti, two train stations, not far from city centre, massive catchment area both local and slightly further afield.
What we need for it all to come to fruition is a team that can compete with anybody, regularly qualifies for the CL, wins trophies at least every two or three years and has players Sanchez, Silva, Hazzard etc. who we can keep from wanting to jump ship at the first sign of a club perceived as more glamorous making eyes at them.
Barry wanting to go to Liverpool was kind of the death of Lerner's dream in some respects, followed by all the others like Milner and Young. Next time we have a team like that, or Sir Brian's or BFR's, or players like Platt, they must be kept and added to. This would be a post-war first for us and only then will we know for certain our full potential.
I don't see why people are so sure we can't get 60k every week. Do they really think we wouldn't if we were throwing money around like PSG or Man City, or caught up again with the histories of Liverpool or Man Utd?
We have won 1 league title and 1 FA Cup in nearly a hundred years and we still have fantastic support IMO.
Agree 100% Percy, I remember saying to a scouser some years back who was bragging about size of club that if we'd won the league 17 times in something like 30 years like they had we'd need a stadium that held 110,000 like the great man Rinder planned pre WW1
The point is though we haven't, which is why I think the average Brummie is less enthused about football in general than the average Scouser. You'd have to be in your late 20s to even remember our last League Cup win.
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I thought signing Stan was a mega event and a genuine superstar of that time but it didn't work out. Later on when Dion, Carbone and Mersen came along it was a real exciting era but we died in the 2000 cup final😥
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Dean Saunders was probably the last time we signed a 'marque' player from a big club. ie one who wasn't on the downward spiral, too old etc.
Stan Staunton arguably too - but no-one gets excited about signing a left back really (Roberto Carlos, Dani Alves aside I suppose).
60K seats or 60K incl. standing area? Now that would be something.
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Dean Saunders was probably the last time we signed a 'marque' player from a big club. ie one who wasn't on the downward spiral, too old etc.
Stan Staunton arguably too - but no-one gets excited about signing a left back really (Roberto Carlos, Dani Alves aside I suppose).
60K seats or 60K incl. standing area? Now that would be something.
Imagine the bottom half of the Holte safe standing. Yes please!
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Make Lower Holte all safe standing, build new North Stand and I'd say we'd have all we'll ever need no matter how successful we got.
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Make Lower Holte all safe standing, build new North Stand and I'd say we'd have all we'll ever need no matter how successful we got.
This. It'd look great too if the North stand was done properly.
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Make Lower Holte all safe standing, build new North Stand and I'd say we'd have all we'll ever need no matter how successful we got.
What? - with your feet?
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I'm pretty sure the safe standing option in parts of the ground would be part of their plans to boost the capacity rather than 60k all seater.
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Make Lower Holte all safe standing, build new North Stand and I'd say we'd have all we'll ever need no matter how successful we got.
This. It'd look great too if the North stand was done properly.
Ive changed my mind. New North Stand and McGrath stand to mirror the Holte and Trinity takes you to 53k. Knock the top bit off the Holte and extend and rebuild it as a single tier standing with capacity increased from 13k seated to 25k standing to pip the Sudtribune as the largest end stand in the world.
The other stuff about 4 seperate stands, brick etc all stands.
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I doubt we can do much with Witton Lane, we can't build over the road like we did with the Trinity so we're stuffed.
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Whenever we have this discussion I always say we should make the Holte one tier, it would add so much to the atmosphere. Safe standing the whole thing would be fantastic.
Knock down the North and rebuild with safe standing bottom tier and seated upper tier. No need to touch Trinity or Witton Lane.
All that should have us at 60ish.
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Whenever we have this discussion I always say we should make the Holte one tier, it would add so much to the atmosphere. Safe standing the whole thing would be fantastic.
Knock down the North and rebuild with safe standing bottom tier and seated upper tier. No need to touch Trinity or Witton Lane.
All that should have us at 60ish.
When the new Holte was being built it was found that a single tier stand of such capacity would have sightlines too far away from the pitch to meet regulations. And yes, St James Park...
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I would be interested what the regulations are and whether they are applied to the sudtribune as well. Does anyone have an idea what capacity of existing Holte would be as safe standing, ie like German standing areas ?
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Dortmund reduce capacity my about 15,000 so at a guess, it's 7-8000 more standing than seating. Lower Holte has 8,000 so you'd probably get an extra 2,000-3500 in there.
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If the North Stand is completely rebuilt I'd imagine some of that would be set aside for safe standing.
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Heard all the same crap from various directors (or whatever) over the years. I'll believe a corner has been turned when it happens.
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Whenever we have this discussion I always say we should make the Holte one tier, it would add so much to the atmosphere. Safe standing the whole thing would be fantastic.
Knock down the North and rebuild with safe standing bottom tier and seated upper tier. No need to touch Trinity or Witton Lane.
All that should have us at 60ish.
When the new Holte was being built it was found that a single tier stand of such capacity would have sightlines too far away from the pitch to meet regulations. And yes, St James Park...
I don't know for sure, but Spurs are building a single tier stand of a similar if not larger scale, so I would be surprised if this was the case. A single tier that is gently curved (or perhaps faceted) to get steeper towards the top and provide better sight lines wouldn't be a bad thing in my opinion. You would still have the experience in the stand of being part of an immense mass of humanity - in fact you would be able to see the other parts of the stand and therefore be perhaps more aware of it. However, I do like the unreconstructed (in the other sense) simplicity of a sheer single tier stand. I do like the brutal simplicity of Kaiserslautern's stadium:
(http://www.stadionbetreiber.de/uploads/pics/Fritz_Walter_Stadion_Kaiserslautern_4.jpg)
There is no point trying to compete with completely new stadiums like Tottenham, Arsenal, Man City etc. in terms of being a perfectly implemented stadium concept. The redevelopment at Anfield is a better model in my opinion. It is perhaps obvious that Fenway Sports Group's experience with Fenway Park will have influenced this. Better to see Villa Park as a Fenway Park or Wrigley Field, and acknowledging what makes it special and distinctive and trying to enhance that is the important thing - part of this is the four individual stands. There is no doubt that recent developments have lowered the quality/ distinctiveness of the ground, even if there is an argument that they were necessary to meet contemporary expectations. I would like to see future redevelopment increase capacity whilst improving the quality of the architecture and enhancing the distinctiveness. I don't automatically trust Xia/ Wyness to do this, but then I wouldn't have trusted Doug to do it either.
I can't believe that Xia/ Wyness would start increasing the capacity to 60k immediately on promotion. I think Wyness is just saying that to make it sound like there is a lot going on behind the scenes. There is an enormous gap between initial thoughts about redevelopment, and actually having concrete plans. I agree with him that regenerating the area around the ground will be important. For a start it will help all of the other activities that go on at the ground through the rest of the week, and that are needed to make it viable. The previous regime were waiting to see if there was sufficient demand before investing in the ground - but it didn't materialise, even with significant (but misplaced) investment in the team. However, it feels like we have been making ourselves irrelevant over the part 20 years, and are now so far behind the clubs that should be our peers that it is difficult to make comparisons.
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All seems a bit redundant now.
Wyness must have really believed that his faith in Bruce was about to be repaid to be involved in that level of hyperboll.
What an idiot.
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All seems a bit redundant now.
Wyness must have really believed that his faith in Bruce was about to be repaid to be involved in that level of hyperboll.
What an idiot.
A prize part, full of shit. Get the fucking basics right.
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How's that engine looking, Keith?
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Run out of steam engine
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I think the Fat Controller has run it into the buffers.
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Wyness's words are utterly pointless when you're in our position, its actions and points that count.
It's like Del Boy telling Rodney this time next year we'll be millionaires....
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And then they were.
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Here's hoping! But it's all a bit 'jam tomorrow'.