Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: dave.woodhall on August 13, 2017, 07:27:03 PM
-
And still they come.
http://thebirminghampress.com/2017/08/2/
-
Welsh de-presser. And the knives are out because yesterday was abject, not a thrilling, hard fought game where we got pipped to the finish line. We got thoroughly humiliated. One more of them and Bruce will be binned, if not physically by the club, mentally by the remainder of the fans who still are willing to give him a shot.
-
Every manager eventually has a game where you realise they can't turn it around. Big Ron it was Coventry, RDM it was Preston, Bruce was Cardiff.
He has no answers.
-
We know who were are and we are a lot better than getting thrashed in the second division by a poor warnock side.
I am glad the (imaginary obviously) knives are out. Villa fans are rightfully impatient and refuse to accept this latest decline.
If you are going to play ugly football then when you start losing then you have very little good will to fall back on no matter how pleasant and intelligent a person you are (and Bruce is both).
Xia needs to make the change now. Lets get it done. Nobody needs to be hurling abuse at Bruce, its just not worked out and he needs to go with a handshake and his payoff. Lets move on and get a progressive and technical manager who can rebuild this club.
-
Melancholy stuff. Deeply sad.
-
A couple of years ago I sensed the same malaise surrounding the club that lead to the 70s wilderness. At the time my comments were described as OTT. Nothing I have seen in the interim has altered my opinion . Back then we were regularly described as 'a sleeping giant'. We need to be careful this time that the giant doesn't fall into a coma.
-
Good read as usual Dave. That last bit is quite sobering, us winning at Reading will be seen as a surprise, us losing to Cardiff wasn't really one.
-
Excellent piece Dave. I have said it before and I say it again, I hope those who run the club actually read your articles. We are often quick to jump the gun but you offer a voice of reason and one that represents us Villa fans, therefore, Wyness and Xia really do need to take note.
-
Very good - balanced but dejected. I agree the stuff about Bruce being outdated is ludicrously overdone. I wonder if this is how Leeds have felt for a while. There's a malaise that has both a clear route cause (bad financial decisions) yet is also impossible to pin down.
There's just no way that Bruce's track record and that of the bulk of our squad suggests we should be anywhere near this bad
-
Sometimes managers do lose it, and it can be pretty quickly. Moyes, Super Ron and Brian are just a few who went downhill fast.
-
Should a manager’s future be in doubt after two games? Probably not, but Villa haven’t done logic since about 2009 so I doubt we’re going to start now.
Ordinarily I'd agree with this, but it's not just two games is it? There's been a pattern here for some while, and the pre-season (that I for one was all for giving him) has borne nothing.
Nice title btw!
-
I think this particular paragraph definitely has some resonance:
Should a manager’s future be in doubt after two games? Probably not, but Villa haven’t done logic since about 2009 so I doubt we’re going to start now. Twelve months ago perceived wisdom was that we needed a manager who knew the Championship. We eventually got one whose record at this level is second to none but now, it seems, his methods are outdated. He got promoted five months before getting the Villa job and I’m not aware of any tectonic shift in football between May and October 2016 yet Bruce has rarely looked capable of doing what he was employed for. As the modern saying goes – you had one job…
I think the answer to the first question of course should be no, but he is being judged on more than two games. I would have definitely expected to see some improvements from last season, but there haven't been in the first two games and alarmingly the same problems that dogged us last season are still apparent. As for his record in the Championship, well it seems that not only are British managers with a more traditional approach being squeezed one-by-one out of the Premier League, it seems that they are also being squeezed out of the higher reaches of the Championship as well.
-
For me the hull game was still an improvement on last year
But Saturday was as bad as the very worst of last season
I'm expecting better v reading but whether we take our chances is another point
-
This current collection of players don’t deserve us. And we certainly don’t deserve them.
Nail on head, again, Dave .
-
In fairness, I think Dave knows he's being judged on more than two games hence the mention of no major changes in football tactics between summer and autumn last year ie during his spell between his current and last jobs. Just that two games of the current season happen to have gone.
-
The point about the 2 games though is that we've stuck with him for the summer and allowed him to have a pre season with them and tweak the squad some more, so whilst it's not 'starting again' it is a kind of 'new beginning'. That's why it would seem a bit rash to get rid now, but it's also why someone like me who has always been prepared to give him time is now starting to have serious doubts because we actually look like we've gone backwards after the summer. As pointed out, why bring in centre backs and a defensive midfielder when we looked good there, and not sign real quality attacking midfielders which we're completely devoid of? Players that could get the best from Hogan and chip in with goals themselves. If Terry and Whelan were 'extra insurance' after getting those players in fair enough but we also now look like we should have held onto Baker as well.
-
Spot on Dave.
-
For me the hull game was still an improvement on last year
But Saturday was as bad as the very worst of last season
I'm expecting better v reading but whether we take our chances is another point
The Hull game fell into the same pattern: Bright first half, took an early lead and failed to take a number of chances to put the game to bed before half-time. Second half: let Hull take control for 20 minutes, sit deep with no tactics to counter this and, inevitably, concede the equaliser. No change at all from last season.
-
In fairness, I think Dave knows he's being judged on more than two games hence the mention of no major changes in football tactics between summer and autumn last year ie during his spell between his current and last jobs. Just that two games of the current season happen to have gone.
I wasn't having a go at Dave at all, just pointing out that on the face of it two games into the new season would be early to judge a manager and I'm sure had he gone after the game on Saturday then there would have been uproar in the media with an assortment of ex-pros and pundits saying how ridiculous it was to sack a manager at that point.
What I was trying to say though was that there hasn't been any noticeable improvement in the two games from last season, which I'm sure we would all agree wasn't good enough. Therefore he should be judged on his whole time here rather than the two games. If it was clear he was trying to implement a new style of play then fair enough, he would need time to do so, but it is apparent that very little has changed, apart from the long punts are directed towards Elmohamady. The majority of his January signings are looking no better after a full pre season and we yet again are fielding a starting XI with Hutton and Agbonlahor in the side, many years after both should have been moved on.
The most concerning thing for me is that when you hear him talk in post match interviews, it's almost if he is as bewildered as the rest of us as to why we are so poor.
-
In fairness, I think Dave knows he's being judged on more than two games hence the mention of no major changes in football tactics between summer and autumn last year ie during his spell between his current and last jobs. Just that two games of the current season happen to have gone.
I wasn't having a go at Dave at all, just pointing out that on the face of it two games into the new season would be early to judge a manager and I'm sure had he gone after the game on Saturday then there would have been uproar in the media with an assortment of ex-pros and pundits saying how ridiculous it was to sack a manager at that point.
What I was trying to say though was that there hasn't been any noticeable improvement in the two games from last season, which I'm sure we would all agree wasn't good enough. Therefore he should be judged on his whole time here rather than the two games. If it was clear he was trying to implement a new style of play then fair enough, he would need time to do so, but it is apparent that very little has changed, apart from the long punts are directed towards Elmohamady. The majority of his January signings are looking no better after a full pre season and we yet again are fielding a starting XI with Hutton and Agbonlahor in the side, many years after both should have been moved on.
The most concerning thing for me is that when you hear him talk in post match interviews, it's almost if he is as bewildered as the rest of us as to why we are so poor.
And if that's true, what hope is there he can turn it around??
-
My fear is he will make us retreat into our she'll even more which will inevitably result in tears all round.