Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: CorkVilla on May 10, 2017, 05:43:33 PM

Title: Steve McClaren
Post by: CorkVilla on May 10, 2017, 05:43:33 PM
Apologies if this has already been discussed. Apparently 'we' cost Steve McClaren the Villa job:

https://www.balls.ie/football/aston-villa-364675
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: Taylor on May 10, 2017, 05:50:38 PM
To be perfectly honest I would have preferred him to Mcleish.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: cheltenhamlion on May 10, 2017, 06:07:51 PM
Was McLaren not actually in the running when Houllier got the job or am I getting confused?
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: West Derby Villan on May 10, 2017, 06:37:17 PM
No McLeish I think
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: PeterWithesShin on May 10, 2017, 06:53:35 PM
I'm sure it's been said from decent sources that it's bollocks and McLaren fecked up his interview and talked himself out of the job. Fan power against him doesn't stand up to any scrutiny considering they appointed McLeish instead.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: Steve67 on May 10, 2017, 07:00:00 PM
Well said PWS. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story eh brolly Wally?
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: SoccerHQ on May 10, 2017, 08:20:35 PM
To be perfectly honest I would have preferred him to Mcleish.

Given the job he did at Newcastle he'd have probably struggled to even get the 38 points TSM did.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: joe_c on May 10, 2017, 09:34:26 PM
I'm sure it's been said from decent sources that it's bollocks and McLaren fecked up his interview and talked himself out of the job. Fan power against him doesn't stand up to any scrutiny considering they appointed McLeish instead.

Yes, I heard similar, came across as desperate for the job.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: olaftab on May 10, 2017, 11:33:04 PM
Yesh datsch right Schtefe.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: The_Rev1 on May 11, 2017, 12:46:25 AM
Agreed with all the previous comments, I remember it being somewhat newsworthy at the time but it seems Martinez was first choice and then the board made it perfectly clear upon appointing McLeish they didn't give a crap about either footballing philosophy (how can you go directly from Martinez to McLeish with the same squad? They are polar opposites in how their teams play) or what the fans thought.  That said, I met McLeish once and he came across as the most charming man in the world, he's a genuinely lovely bloke.  I'm guessing he interviews very well and he aced the interview and got the job, but he should never have been on the shortlist.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: ciggiesnbeer on May 11, 2017, 02:30:18 AM
Yup and yup. What PWS and others have said. We had nothing to do with it. Sorry Mr. McClaren, if you want someone to blame for your career decline take a look in the mirror.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: alftitimus on May 11, 2017, 03:43:02 AM
The Lerner regime faced more of an "Oh Jasus..." --- sigh when it was leaked that McClaren was shortlisted.
I believe he never reached the Interview stage.

With McLeish however, it was more than a sigh, it was almost mutiny.
Placards and Bedsheets on the steps, social media comments going viral.

BUT -- the Lerner Regime saw fit to appoint McLeish in face of the biggest backlash from fans in our History. So that actually proves that "fan-power" was not a factor.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: Nelly on May 11, 2017, 11:21:59 AM
Would it have been worth it for the inevitable Brummie accent from 'Stoive' Mclaren?

No. Probably a decent coach and he did do well with Middlesbrough but that was a long time ago.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: SoccerHQ on May 11, 2017, 11:27:21 AM
In context at the time he'd won the Dutch league with Twente in 09/10 and then was sacked from Wolfsburg in January 2011 after an underwhelming spell.

Just another poor name on the shortlist though. Our previous four seasons we'd finished 6th, 6th, 6th and 9th. Oh to have on the board back then someone with the nous Southampton did who could attract Koeman and Pochettino when they were fighting relegation battles and selling half their team to Liverpool.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: Jon Crofts on May 11, 2017, 12:32:10 PM
Yes, but just imagine what he could have done with Randy's money.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: Mister E on May 11, 2017, 01:36:33 PM

BUT -- the Lerner Regime saw fit to appoint McLeish in face of the biggest backlash from fans in our History. So that actually proves that "fan-power" was not a factor.

There was virtually no backlash to TSM's appointment other than the assertion his record demonstrated that he was not up to the job. The backlash from fans only really manifested itself at Wigan away - in the February - when the team played particualrly poorly (and Bent got the injury from whcih he never really recovered as a Villa player).
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: PeterWithesShin on May 11, 2017, 02:19:07 PM
Once he was here he was supported by fans but when he was appointed there was a backlash. Only appointment in my time that has led to fans protesting at the ground.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: KRS on May 11, 2017, 02:26:32 PM
Yet according to the media, we were all anti-TSM and didn't support him throughout his time at the club.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: PeterWithesShin on May 11, 2017, 02:38:44 PM
As Mister E says, the support didn't start to turn on him until Wigan and Blackburn away, which were end of Feb and beginning of March. Home fans turned after Bolton, the 35th game of the season. But it's easier for the media to say we were always against him and turned because he was a nose, nothing to do with winning 4 of our last 27 league games under him, and only 7 league wins all season.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: LeeB on May 11, 2017, 03:36:05 PM
Yes, but just imagine what he could have done with Randy's money.

Lol. Improved his weetabix thatch?
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: peter w on May 11, 2017, 05:48:30 PM
it's more shredded wheat I think.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: LeeB on May 11, 2017, 05:52:03 PM
Yep, you're probably right there.

Fuck off.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: peter w on May 11, 2017, 08:02:04 PM
Whatever happened to shredded wheat?
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: papa lazarou on May 11, 2017, 09:23:18 PM
Its his hair island (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFPbCByEFUY), his hair island.

Courtesy Athletico Mince
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: OCD on May 14, 2017, 10:59:48 PM
I heard similar at the time. McClaren was a strong candidate, word got out which ruled him out and it got down to it either being Houllier or Curbishley. I put bets on both at the time to hedge my bets. Sadly I made money off McLeish being named manager too, as well as O'Neill leaving.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: Steve67 on May 14, 2017, 11:17:23 PM
As Mister E says, the support didn't start to turn on him until Wigan and Blackburn away, which were end of Feb and beginning of March. Home fans turned after Bolton, the 35th game of the season. But it's easier for the media to say we were always against him and turned because he was a nose, nothing to do with winning 4 of our last 27 league games under him, and only 7 league wins all season.

Didn't we have quite a decent start under TSM too? 5 or 6 games before we lost at the beginning of his tenure?
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: PeterWithesShin on May 14, 2017, 11:24:21 PM
Started the season W2 D5 L0.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 15, 2017, 09:39:49 AM
I don't think we were particularly brilliant, though. I remember we were joking in the pub that we were aiming to be the "shittest Invincibles ever". Obviously, the run ended as soon as we played someone good. We had already lost at home to Bolton in the League Cup during our unbeaten phase, too.

Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: SoccerHQ on May 15, 2017, 11:32:32 AM
I heard similar at the time. McClaren was a strong candidate, word got out which ruled him out and it got down to it either being Houllier or Curbishley. I put bets on both at the time to hedge my bets. Sadly I made money off McLeish being named manager too, as well as O'Neill leaving.

Just to recap we'd just finished 6th three times on the trot and all we could muster on the shortlist was Curbishley who hadn't worked since September 2008 and Houllier who last managed at Lyon in 2007. McClaren was the next summer.

I know MON walking out when he did caught them out on the hop and probably soured Lerner's "affection" for us but we were still in a reasonably strong position as a side regularly finishing in the top 6 could be and we really should've waited until a decent manager became available even if it meant keeping McDonald as caretaker until xmas.

That period really annoys me, our slide down the football wasn't inevitable if we'd have football nous on the board. Everton finishing in bottom half last two years and then going and getting Koeman from Southampton with minimum of fuss is a case in point.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: berneboy on May 15, 2017, 11:47:57 AM
Agreed with all the previous comments, I remember it being somewhat newsworthy at the time but it seems Martinez was first choice and then the board made it perfectly clear upon appointing McLeish they didn't give a crap about either footballing philosophy (how can you go directly from Martinez to McLeish with the same squad? They are polar opposites in how their teams play) or what the fans thought.  That said, I met McLeish once and he came across as the most charming man in the world, he's a genuinely lovely bloke.  I'm guessing he interviews very well and he aced the interview and got the job, but he should never have been on the shortlist.

My son met Mr McLeish for some charity match and said the same - a thoroughly decent man.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: dave.woodhall on May 15, 2017, 11:50:30 AM
I always got the feeling that after being shafted by two managers within twelve months, Randy wanted someone he could trust and McLeish fitted the bill. I also think that Randy was the only man at Villa who didn't believe that it would end in tears.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: brian green on May 15, 2017, 12:45:15 PM
Welgar the manufacturers of Shredded Wheat decided to change the name to Brillo and sell them as pan scourers.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: mr underhill on May 15, 2017, 12:52:20 PM
and jolly effective they are too, according to Mrs U.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: OCD on May 15, 2017, 04:41:15 PM
I heard similar at the time. McClaren was a strong candidate, word got out which ruled him out and it got down to it either being Houllier or Curbishley. I put bets on both at the time to hedge my bets. Sadly I made money off McLeish being named manager too, as well as O'Neill leaving.

Just to recap we'd just finished 6th three times on the trot and all we could muster on the shortlist was Curbishley who hadn't worked since September 2008 and Houllier who last managed at Lyon in 2007. McClaren was the next summer.

I know MON walking out when he did caught them out on the hop and probably soured Lerner's "affection" for us but we were still in a reasonably strong position as a side regularly finishing in the top 6 could be and we really should've waited until a decent manager became available even if it meant keeping McDonald as caretaker until xmas.

That period really annoys me, our slide down the football wasn't inevitable if we'd have football nous on the board. Everton finishing in bottom half last two years and then going and getting Koeman from Southampton with minimum of fuss is a case in point.

That just sums Lerner's tenure up though. No idea about how to build the infrastructure of a football club. Just appointed someone who had previously headed a call centre and left him to run it until we appointed someone who had previously been a commercial director. It's no wonder we went down and having to find our feet again.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: adrenachrome on May 16, 2017, 02:39:03 AM
and jolly effective they are too, according to Mrs U.

You mean you have never applied elbow grease to a serious scouring operation on a burned cooking vessel? The Brillo Pad is the tool for job, FFS.

   
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: brian green on May 16, 2017, 08:48:47 AM
It also serves very well as an emergency toupee.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: mr underhill on May 16, 2017, 10:29:56 AM
I've never scoured a pan in my life
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: in exile on May 16, 2017, 12:07:11 PM
I've never scoured a pan in my life

Get you, Macho Man!
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on May 16, 2017, 12:56:23 PM
I've never scoured a pan in my life

Get you, Macho Man!

Criticising someone because they have never scoured a pan is unlikely to stick.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: West Derby Villan on May 16, 2017, 01:39:38 PM
I've never scoured a pan in my life

Get you, Macho Man!

Criticising someone because they have never scoured a pan is unlikely to stick.

The truth will out once you've scratched the surface
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: Axl Rose on May 16, 2017, 01:51:52 PM
I've never scoured a pan in my life

Get you, Macho Man!

Criticising someone because they have never scoured a pan is unlikely to stick.

The truth will out once you've scratched the surface

You've lifted the lid on that mystery.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on May 16, 2017, 03:15:00 PM
Haven`t you lot got any wok to do?
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: brian green on May 16, 2017, 03:28:10 PM
I have got lots of wok to do.  My lettuces are being destroyed.  I need a wok to kill that wabbit.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on May 16, 2017, 03:29:19 PM
Haven`t you lot got any wok to do?

Are you trying to stir it up ?
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: West Derby Villan on May 16, 2017, 04:22:05 PM
Haven`t you lot got any wok to do?

Are you trying to stir it up ?

Or is that just Chinese whispers?
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: mr underhill on May 18, 2017, 07:11:42 AM
McClaren was shamelessly pimping himself  for a new job  last night as co commentator on the Wednesday v Huddersfield play off second leg. Apparently offered a Director of Football role at Huddersfield, but wants to remain a coach/manager.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: MoetVillan on May 18, 2017, 08:19:52 AM
Pimping himself is an appropriate term, he used the word penetration 20+ times in the commentary
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: Duncan Shaw on May 18, 2017, 08:52:20 AM
He also said what an excellent tactical move it was to replace Fletcher with Rhodes, as he had more pace to exploit more space Udddersfield were leaving.  Despite it being obvious that was the point they lost control of the game and all the Sky pundits (I'd got home by then!!) said it was puzzling as the ball stopped sticking up front at that point.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: eamonn on May 19, 2017, 04:05:42 PM
Poor Rhodesy wasn't feeling up to taking a penalty either. Surely you'd have more regrets from your team losing and you not having taking one than taking one and missing it.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: Gareth on May 19, 2017, 04:14:30 PM
I'd say we dodged a bullet on Rhodes, like McCormack he is a Scottish striker who scores goals but hardly gets a game in a dreadful Strachan side.  Couldn't get a game at Boro, joined a side where daddy is on the staff then bottles a penalty....hope Wednesday kept the receipt
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: cheltenhamlion on May 19, 2017, 05:32:40 PM
I'd say we dodged a bullet on Rhodes, like McCormack he is a Scottish striker who scores goals but hardly gets a game in a dreadful Strachan side.  Couldn't get a game at Boro, joined a side where daddy is on the staff then bottles a penalty....hope Wednesday kept the receipt

See, this is another thing that concerns me about Bruce. We tried hard to get Rhodes in January when what we need given how Bruce sets up is a big lump the ball sticks to.

Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: brian green on May 19, 2017, 06:04:27 PM
Or a skinny lump the ball sticks to like Davis.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: cheltenhamlion on May 19, 2017, 06:09:01 PM
Or a skinny lump the ball sticks to like Davis.

I want to see us use the kids more next season Brian but he ain't going to do 46 decent games in that role. If we are going to play like Bolton under Allardyce we may as well sign our own version of Kevin Davies.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: cheltenhamlion on May 19, 2017, 07:05:42 PM
Or a skinny lump the ball sticks to like Davis.

I want to see us use the kids more next season Brian but he ain't going to do 46 decent games in that role. If we are going to play like Bolton under Allardyce we may as well sign our own version of Kevin Davies.

In fact, I would say, if we are to play the lump, Davis is fine cover. We just need an older, bigger, lump with form for scoring set pieces as your starting lump.

Davis can be the younger, thinner, reserve lump for when main lump gets tired.

Murphy at Newcastle would be the perfect lump.

And we should be off to Exeter to ask what they want for Ollie Watkins. Who looks like a lump but is quick, physical and can finish with both feet. A poor man's Dele Alli if you will.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: brian green on May 19, 2017, 07:36:22 PM
I like the non lump physique of Skinny Davis.  When Gabby challenges he just goes up vertically misses the ball completely or it skids off the top of his bald patch to a defender.  Hogan's upper body goes up a fair distance because he tries very hard but he only has little legs so  he is starting at a disadvantage.  Weimann was the same.  Remember the picture of CB's goal against Sunderland when Weimann at full leap had his head at Benteke's waist?

Davis jumps like a tree creature, all arms and legs and elbows and knees, bent at the waist to stick his arse into the centre back.  Just like Peter Withe used to do.  He mixes it.  Jack playing behind him thinks he has died and gone to heaven.  Plus he looks as tough as old boots.

Our election agent in Cambridge supports and advises Exeter.  I will ask him about Ollie Watkins. 
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: brian green on May 19, 2017, 07:46:46 PM
Just called party HQ.  Ollie Watkins is the new Bastin I am assured.  Stand name after him and they sold him to the Arse at 17.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: cheltenhamlion on May 19, 2017, 08:59:29 PM
Just called party HQ.  Ollie Watkins is the new Bastin I am assured.  Stand name after him and they sold him to the Arse at 17.

Watkins looks a bloody steal at, say 750k, plus a bit of sell on. He is only young but physically a bully like the young Rooney. And he can play off both feet. I would add him to our squad tomorrow.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: cheltenhamlion on May 19, 2017, 09:01:38 PM
I like the non lump physique of Skinny Davis.  When Gabby challenges he just goes up vertically misses the ball completely or it skids off the top of his bald patch to a defender.  Hogan's upper body goes up a fair distance because he tries very hard but he only has little legs so  he is starting at a disadvantage.  Weimann was the same.  Remember the picture of CB's goal against Sunderland when Weimann at full leap had his head at Benteke's waist?

Davis jumps like tree creature, all arms and legs and elbows and knees, bent at the waist to stick his arse into the centre back.  Just like Peter Withe used to do.  He mixes it.  Jack playing behind him thinks he has died and gone to heaven.  Plus he looks as tough as old boots.

Our election agent in Cambridge supports and advises Exeter.  I will ask him about Ollie Watkins. 

A tree creature? From now on, I shall think of him as the Ent!
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: adrenachrome on May 20, 2017, 05:59:26 PM
In other words, the big lump doesn't clock that we need a big lump. Probably lump averse because he doesn't want the lump in question dropping the nut on him.


Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: brian green on May 20, 2017, 07:31:40 PM
Stu, I was tempted to write 'monkey' but Kelvin McKenzie has poisoned that well of vocabulary so I wrote 'tree creature".
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: Neil Hawkes on May 21, 2017, 07:54:49 AM
Stu, I was tempted to write 'monkey' but Kelvin McKenzie has poisoned that well of vocabulary so I wrote 'tree creature".
Tree creature is a much more evocative description, bravo. As previous posters have commented we will forever label a footballer in the air waving a mass of arms, legs and various body parts as a tree creature.
Title: Re: Steve McClaren
Post by: cheltenhamlion on May 24, 2017, 06:04:30 PM
Stu, I was tempted to write 'monkey' but Kelvin McKenzie has poisoned that well of vocabulary so I wrote 'tree creature".

Gotcha. I would take Watkins like a shot. He is a kid with a physique to bully people. Think a mobile version of Tom Huddlestone.
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