Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: SoccerHQ on March 07, 2017, 10:58:24 PM
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Anyone got a spare five minutes...get the stats up for this season.
It shows a huge disparity between us winning/drawing when we score the first goal and us losing when we don't.
In 20 years of supporting I've never known a Villa team so fragile and so dependant on scoring first to get a result from the game.
We showed more fight at prem level, it's ridiculous.
No chance of promotion unless we sort that out next season.
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Most teams struggle going one nil down 2nd half
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Most teams struggle going one nil down 2nd half
We hardly ever seem to pick up even a point though.
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By my reckoning
Under RDM
If we scored first we were W1 D3 L1
if they scored first we were W0 D2 L2
Under SB
If we score first W9 D4 L1
if they score first W1 D1 L9
For a total of
We score W10 D7 L2
they score W1 D3 L11
Plus there's been two 0-0 games.
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Most teams struggle going one nil down 2nd half
Have a look at some of the Reading/Huddersfield comebacks when they've been a goal down with 20 minutes left.
That's why they're both comfortably in the top 6 and our season is over.
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Its not even the fact that we can't get back into it, its the fact that we look as if we aren't even trying, our confidence, mentality or whatever the fuck you want to call it is so brittle.
We don't even attempt to throw the washing up liquid, let alone even think about going near the kitchen sink.
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Not sure if you've watched the game, not even trying? Utter nonsense.
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Naaaa you're right, I've imagined the Sheffield Wednesday, Bristol City, Luton, Norwich, Wolves, Cardiff, Spurs, Brentford, Ipswich, Leeds, Newcastle and Preston performances.
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Tonight we put in a lot of effort and smothered their press and stopped them playing football. The game had few chances in it, they're no mugs for sure, but what was created came from us.
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The thing for me is that once we go a goal down I don't even think for a minute that we'll get back into it. We don't even look like scoring once we go 1-0 down. That's the trouble with playing negative football and hoping to nick a 1-0, if you concede your game plan is out of the window. McLeish was the same, go 1-0 down and he didn't have a plan B. I don't think Bruce has got a plan B either, and his plan A is basic, negative stuff to begin with. He's also got what I like to call Martin O'Neill syndrome, he hates making subs and when he does it's the wrong one with 5 minutes left.
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Thats not being disputed anywhere, the point is that we don't look like getting back into games when we go behind.
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I think I'm right in saying that every time we've conceded first away from home this season we've lost the game without scoring?
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I think I'm right in saying that every time we've conceded first away from home this season we've lost the game without scoring?
Yep, just checked. That's piss poor.
Stats if we concede the first goal away from home
W0 D0 L9 GF0
And it's 10 if you include Spurs.
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We created enough chances in the first half to have gone in a couple of goals up but we maybe don't create enough over the course of the game. To say we don't even try though is ridiculous.
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Not even sure this is something that will improve next season under Bruce. It's a mentality thing for me, and if he hasn't managed to improve it in nearly 6 months, I'm not sure why he will in the next 6. The way he plays means that if we concede, because our mentality was cautious to start with, we struggle to change even though we need to.
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We created enough chances in the first half to have gone in a couple of goals up but we maybe don't create enough over the course of the game. To say we don't even try though is ridiculous.
Chances created before we have conceded are irrelevant in the context of this thread. I'd also say we don't try hard enough when we go behind, considering we haven't picked up a single point away from home all season when it's happened.
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We created enough chances in the first half to have gone in a couple of goals up but we maybe don't create enough over the course of the game. To say we don't even try though is ridiculous.
Chances created before we have conceded are irrelevant in the context of this thread.
Well not really. The thread title does say 'scoring the first goal' which in most away games as been our problem.
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Other teams when losing throw the shackles off and play like they've got nothing to lose, look at Preston at VP. We just continue to play in the same manner, we never seem to just go hell for leather and throw everything at it.
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We created enough chances in the first half to have gone in a couple of goals up but we maybe don't create enough over the course of the game. To say we don't even try though is ridiculous.
Chances created before we have conceded are irrelevant in the context of this thread.
Well not really. The thread title does say 'scoring the first goal' which in most away games as been our problem.
OK but if we are relying on taking the lead in our away games to get anything out of them we will never really progress. The bigger concern for me is having no plan whatsoever how to get back into these games when we go behind, as I'd guess that the away side goes behind in over 50% of games.
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We created enough chances in the first half to have gone in a couple of goals up but we maybe don't create enough over the course of the game. To say we don't even try though is ridiculous.
Chances created before we have conceded are irrelevant in the context of this thread.
Well not really. The thread title does say 'scoring the first goal' which in most away games as been our problem.
OK but if we are relying on taking the lead in our away games to get anything out of them we will never really progress. The bigger concern for me is having no plan whatsoever how to get back into these games when we go behind, as I'd guess that the away side goes behind in over 50% of games.
I agree. Not taking our chances though is also costing us though like it has done a few times this season.
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Not sure if you've watched the game, not even trying? Utter nonsense.
TBF Ads first half was one of our best away halves of the season.
My point though is once we go 1 nil down....where are the shots hitting the post, corners being cleared off the line, even a succession of corners which we had at the end of the first half. All building up the pressure to get an equaliser and maybe even a winner.
I just don't understand how the team can offer so little when we go 1 down....there were still about 25 minutes left when Huddersfield scored.
Such a brittle mentality that needs to change next season.
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The last time we scored an equalizer in an away match......................................Newcastle December 2015!
Other teams do it all the time at Villa Park. Bruce has inherited this problem (not yet solved it). Since O'Neil left we have been even flakier than an Arsenal team facing Bayern Munich in the Champions League.
Once we fall behind in an away match, even if it's early on, you may as well ask the stewards the way out the away end and to the nearest pub because Villa will not get a result.
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Not even sure this is something that will improve next season under Bruce. It's a mentality thing for me, and if he hasn't managed to improve it in nearly 6 months, I'm not sure why he will in the next 6. The way he plays means that if we concede, because our mentality was cautious to start with, we struggle to change even though we need to.
The sit deep, fill the midfield and keep it at nil is a mentality thing.
Then we concede and you know the rest.
As Mike Tyson said, "every body has a strategy until you punch them in the face"
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We created enough chances in the first half to have gone in a couple of goals up but we maybe don't create enough over the course of the game. To say we don't even try though is ridiculous.
Chances created before we have conceded are irrelevant in the context of this thread.
Well not really. The thread title does say 'scoring the first goal' which in most away games as been our problem.
OK but if we are relying on taking the lead in our away games to get anything out of them we will never really progress. The bigger concern for me is having no plan whatsoever how to get back into these games when we go behind, as I'd guess that the away side goes behind in over 50% of games.
I agree. Not taking our chances though is also costing us though like it has done a few times this season.
The problem at this level is the conversion rate of chances. These are not PL level players. Yes, you can get lucky (or in our case, unlucky when the opposition score from one or two chances) but most of the time you are going to need more chances.
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where are the actual statistics? This thread is talking about stats that are not available. You need to give a link to the figures you are using or the rest of us are in the dark and cannot comment.
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4th post
By my reckoning
Under RDM
If we scored first we were W1 D3 L1
if they scored first we were W0 D2 L2
Under SB
If we score first W9 D4 L1
if they score first W1 D1 L9
For a total of
We score W10 D7 L2
they score W1 D3 L11
Plus there's been two 0-0 games.
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where are the actual statistics? This thread is talking about stats that are not available. You need to give a link to the figures you are using or the rest of us are in the dark and cannot comment.
Unless you have a bad memory surely you can just think of at least 5 away games off the top of your head when we've conceded first and lost....e.g goal down at Newcastle, PNE, Leeds, last night, Cardiff, Wolves, Norwich and we've lost.
And all those times at VP when we've scored first and gone onto win like the last two home games.
As far as I'm aware the only games that have bucked the trend this season were scoring away first at Forest and Bristol and we lost both and conceding first at home to Blackburn and winning that.
I have to say winning just one game after falling behind this season at the level we're at and what we've invested is totally staggering.
We won an FA cup semi final after failing behind with an awful premier league team to give some perspective.
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And as Des said, we've conceded first in 9 away games this season and lost all 9 without scoring. 10 if you include Spurs. To not even score 1 goal away from home after going 1-0 down is piss poor.
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Other teams when losing throw the shackles off and play like they've got nothing to lose, look at Preston at VP. We just continue to play in the same manner, we never seem to just go hell for leather and throw everything at it.
It reminds me of McLeish settling for low scoring defeats rather than trying for an equaliser.
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We are carrying too many poor footballers in the team to be chasing equalisers. With the likes of Elphick we can't push up and play a high line to squeeze teams in their own half. Jedinak is a passenger if we go behind and the likes of Hutton and Baker guarantee a prompt return of the ball to the opposition. Kodjia doesn't appear to try a leg when we go direct either. Up until recently anyway, we weren't getting any midfielders breaking into the box and our set piece threat is negligble.
Ideally Lansbury and Hourihane would be a bit braver to keep demanding the ball to feet. They have the technical ability but I'm not sure about their application to be honest. Both appear to prefer picking up handy ball. Shelvey on the other hand drops deep constantly to get Newcastle moving, Mooy likewise for Huddersfield.
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You're not sure about Lansbury's application? He an incredibly hard working player. Him and Hourihane ran none stop on Tuesday.
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Another game we score first....another game we win.
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It's not really about conceding first, more about not conceding. We keep up this sort of form we've shown over the last five games, being very difficult to score against let alone beat and we will find ourselves going up automatically next year.