Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Bad English on January 02, 2017, 05:00:11 PM
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Fucking bollocks!
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Lower the flag BE
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SB picked a shite team to start
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Teams who want to get promoted don't get outplayed at cardiff.
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Utterly embarrassing and unacceptable.
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Dreadful midfield to start with. Let's hope that pairing is never seen in the claret and blue again.
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I am starting to think SB is not up to the task.
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That starting 11 gave us no chance. Dreadful team selection.
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Let the clear out begin.
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Bunn, Hutton, Gardner and Flabby should never play again.
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That was unacceptable from both the management and the players today.
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Dreadful midfield to start with. Let's hope that pairing is never seen in the claret and blue again.
How many times has this been said?
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The goal was a ridiculous one to give away, so so sloppy. First half sounded dreadful but slightly better from us in the second half although I've not seen it so it's hard to say. One to take on the chin and hopefully we'll have some new blood in before the Wolves game.
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Bunn, Hutton, Gardner and Flabby should never play again.
However, they will...
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Norwich revisited when the manager and the players are equally culpable.
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Useless wankpuffins like Hutton, Flabby & Bacuna are why we are where we are, just fuck them off, cancel their contracts, do whatever it takes so they never ever pull a Villa shirt on again.
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Think we need to forget about the play offs. Barring a miraculous run of form we will never make up any ground. The squad has some decent players but the decisions made in the summer by RDM have cost us dearly. Losing Gayer and failing to replace him was a major flaw, the midfield was neglected and not matter how many strikers you sign they aren't going to score if we never get a grip of a game.
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Happy New Year everyone...
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Dreadful midfield to start with. Let's hope that pairing is never seen in the claret and blue again.
How many times has this been said?
I think 4 of them were from last season's useless squad.
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Completely missed all coverage. Shit. I take it we were rubbish??
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Let the clear out begin.
Sickenthing to have to hear considering how much we've already spent. Never seems to be a structured plan.
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Nothing surprising about this result, but we might have had a better chance without that shit starting midfield.
We need to strengthen while we can and accept this is a proper rebuilding job we have on our hands. Like Dresden style. Promotion will have to wait.
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We are now firmly entrenched as a Championship side. Full of shite players that would flounder even if we did get anywhere near the PL ever again.
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Couple be a blessing in disguise at the start of the transfer window. There's no way they won't sort the midfield out now, and Bruce seemed to identify our problems there at half-time.
Stay in touch until end of the Afcon, bring in new blood, go on a run and sneak top six. Still doable, despite today.
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Bruce got it completely wrong today. Westwood and Gardner simply aren't good enough even at this level - playing either of them is a risk, playing them as a pair is plain stupid. At least he took them off at half time by which time we could easily have been 3-0 down. And what was the point of going to great lengths to keep Ayew for this game and then putting Flabby and RHM on ahead of him? Played better in the second half and created a number of chances and could have come away with a point, but I think we can wave tara-a-bit to the playoffs - without Kodjia we don't carry any real threat.
And as for Colin Wanker - instructs his players to kick lumps out of Jack, then at Villa Park waits in the tunnel to berate him for getting his players booked, and gives his players the exact same instructions for this game. Vile man
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That was unacceptable from both the management and the players today.
Although we could all see it needed to happen before the game started, I give Bruce credit for changing Westwood and Gardner at half time......he realised his fuck up and hopefully that will be the end of them playing again.
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Completely missed all coverage. Shit. I take it we were rubbish??
Right now rubbish would be a big step up. I dream of us being rubbish.
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And Neil Warnock is still a ******.
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I said the other day, Bunn did exactly the same last year. He came in and did well for a couple of games and nosedived thereafter. It's exactly the same pattern again this time around. The bloke is an accident waiting to happen (and no, I have,t seen the goal).
Goalkeeping errors are one of the big factors as to why we are currently 7 points off the play offs. Thank God it looks like we have a replacement ready for the next league game. He can't give as many goals away as the 2 keepers thus far this season.
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We got lucky against Burton and Leeds, that was unlikely to stretch for 3 games.
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Watching that Periscope feed was awful. Those poor buggers who travelled to Cardiff...
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I wonder how many more times we will have to see the Gardner / Westwood pairing?
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All that money spent to play like that. Again. I'm not only pissed off that we lost, but that we lost looking like we can't really cope with this league. What exactly was the point of August-December?
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On the plus side, if we did make playoffs it would mean we're on a monumental run of form and should therefore breeze through them.
Unfortunately we won't!
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The second half at Brighton remains our only good performance under Bruce. We have been crap/average/lucky in every other game.
When you play Westwood and Gardner, and bring Agbonlahor on then you're destined for mid table.
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Bruce made some very poor decisions today. That was a serious regression if I had ever seen one.
Starting both Westwood and Gardner is UNACCEPTABLE at this point. Any manager that thinks they can do a job is deluded. It's unbelievable that Westwood is still a factor. His inclusion improves nothing.
I am so irritated.
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Need some new backbone.. and soon
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I think Dr Xia will spend big now in this window - we simply have to bolster all areas of the squad, particularly in midfield. Shows how much we rely on Kodjia.
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Having watched some of the Arsenal game yesterday it scared me shitless to think that we'd be playing Arsenal next season IF we got promoted, they play a different sport altogether, we'd come straight down again before Christmas guaranteed with some of these clowns masquerading as professional footballers.
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A Gardner Westwood pairing ever again should be cause for instant dismissal for Bruce. And I like the bloke. You can add Agbonlahor to that as well if he ever treads on a blade of grass wearing a Villa shirt.
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I am afraid chaps that we have got ourselves another stubborn manager.
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No shape. No shape. No shape. How many times does it have to be said? The team has no shape, and that's due largely to our lack of a midfield. We could carry a Hutton, Amavi or a Bunn if we had a midfieled that does its job: a stopper, an enforcer, a box-to-box type and a creator. Every time we flounder in the middle, we put pressure on the defence and leave strikers isolated. Promotion won't happen until we get rid of shit like Westwood, get some competent midfielders in and get some shape.
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I've simply lost count of the times we've collectively said never again should the usual suspects pull on the shirt yet in true groundhog day fashion they do. please Dr X once and for all get the funds in place to give us a competitive midfield
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In his very quiet, very reasonable voice Bruce will say I pick the team, then proceed to pick Gardner and Westwood and bring Gabby off the bench.
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I am afraid chaps that we have got ourselves another stubborn manager.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" comes to mind after every game.
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Spot on Crofty!
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That is the main problem for me. I honestly thought we now had a manager with insight. The pairing of Westwood and Gardner was amateurish and we were always going to struggle with them in
The starting line up. Problem is that, if we can see it as just fans what do the management team see in these players that we don't!!!
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Thought we dominated second half just lacked that bit of quality to make it count. Bacuna isn't a number six anyway and McCormack doesn't suit us at all. Agreed on general theme re team selection. Far too one paced in midfield and up top. Tshibola and Gabby improved things. Grealish played well in the main but needs to grow a pair, idiotic yellow card and whinged at the ref constantly. Good players get kicked at this level get used to it.
All tried hard second half but too many average players even at this level to pick up a run of wins and luck went against us today.
Bunn 4, Hutton 6, Chester 6, Baker 6, Amavi 5, Adamoah 7, Gardner 4, Westwood 5, Bacuna 6, Grealish 7, McCormack 5. Gabby 6, Tshibola 7,
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I'm undecided on what I want Bruce to achieve this season. We could squeak into the play-offs and go up, which would be great from a financial point of view, but this squad is nowhere near good enough to stay up. To be honest, I'd rather see us play consistently well and cream everyone next season instead. We seem so far from that at the moment that I don't know if I'll see it this time around.
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Other than put Tshibola in from the start (which he probably should have done), i'm not sure what other options he had.
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The honeymoon period is well and truly over
Some hard decisions are going to have to be made about every single player who are simply not good enough for our club.
the transfer window is going to be Crucial for us
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Think we need to forget about the play offs. Barring a miraculous run of form we will never make up any ground. The squad has some decent players but the decisions made in the summer by RDM have cost us dearly. Losing Gayer and failing to replace him was a major flaw, the midfield was neglected and not matter how many strikers you sign they aren't going to score if we never get a grip of a game.
Losing Gueye, Sanchez and Veretout (I know they wanted to move on) and leaving Westwood, Bacuna and Gardner was a major step down in quality and the reason we are not doing very well. All too similar players in that they are physically weak. Tshibola looked the right type of player but is very inexperienced and you would question whether he has the stamina to play consistently for 90 minutes. Managing your involvement in the game is not an easy thing for a young player. I think he was bought half for this season and half for the future. Jedinak was the right type to buy but not if the other players stand around and expect him to do everything. Otherwise you end up with Sanchez Mk2 and the player being dead after 60 minutes, with the inevitable mistakes of a tired player (tired physically = tired mentally = too many mistakes).
We have to get midfield players in that work the ball through the middle of the field. What is the point of playing sideways to the fullbacks and then hitting a diagonal cross into the box when we have nobody that can win it in the air. Fair enough if you can get to the bye-line and pull it back or put in very accurate crosses but we are not capable of that.
We are so predictable with our play of playing square from one side and then back again. I look back to last year to the Norwich match when Veretout played that ball through to Gabby for his goal. How often does Westwood look for that type of ball by playing it instinctively knowing that the player is going to be there because you are aware of positioning and movement of other players.
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Exactly. there's a lot of hysteria on here. We're building for the long-term, and Bruce will succeed...
Other than put Tshibola in from the start (which he probably should have done), i'm not sure what other options he had.
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We struggled at home against wigan and burton and constructive critisism was poo pooed because we were winning
against a manager who has been around the block it was easily sussed out and playing gardner and westwood against a dirty physical side is insanity
I hope bruce has at least 5 players lined up as another season in this pisspot league will see our 3/4 decent players fuck off and the teams relegated will have stronger squads than we did when we came down and more parachute money
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"They can do it my way or I'll find a team that want to play my way". Bruce sounding the end for one or two?
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7 away goals all season. If only we'd spent nearly £30m on strikers in the summer...
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Perspective please. With Jedinak out, other than Tshibola, there are NO replacements for Westwood, Gardner and Bacuna. Bruce had no choice. That's what also boils my piss. The lack of options. The squad overall isn't strong enough for a sustained challenge on promotion this season. I expected defeat today with that shit team selection. I hope Bruce has irons in fires with incomings, and it will take more than Sam Johnstone coming in.
Hutton, Bacuna, Westwood, Richards, Agbonlahor, Bunn (who wasn't at fault for the goal today, but fails to inspire confidence whatever), Cissokho, Gestede, Elphick, all not even good enough for a promotion push. One or two might be ok in a decent squad. The jury is also still out on Ayew, Amav, Gollinii, Baker, McCormack and Grealish too. At the moment, only Chester, Adomah, Kodjia, Jedinak seem to be guaranteed a start. It won't all happen this window so the very best I hope for now is to lay foundations for a real push next season.
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"They can do it my way or I'll find a team that want to play my way". Bruce sounding the end for one or two?
I hope not
It needs to be four or five
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I was post off with the selection, especially the two together in centre mid and Bunn ahead of Gollini is mystifying. However, lets give Bruce a transfer window at least before writing him off. Got to say that some of the performances, even when we have won, have been depressing
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In the 66th minute against Leeds I said well done Westwood for winning a tackle
I honestly cannot remember saying that in the last 2-3 seasons and that sums up the team that he continually plays
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Other than put Tshibola in from the start (which he probably should have done), i'm not sure what other options he had.
I'd agree and that's why two midfielders, a right back, a forward and a goalkeeper are absolutely essential. Honestly anyone who thinks Bunn is a better option than Gollini is nuts.
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Just watched the Sky 'highlights' pretty dire back passes at times. We were a bit unlucky to hit the bar twice, although Cardiff hit it as well. I'd say not as bad as Norwich - we had 67% possession today?
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I watched the Bruce interview on Facebook Villa page. He spoke very well and helped me feel he knows what he wants and is very determined to get it. We aren't quite good enough even with Kodja and the Jedi but without them we are a long way off. Let's see what the January Sales brings.
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Listening to Bruce post match, once again you hear him nail it, sees it as most of us, today even questioned his own team selection. I just can't help thinking he's also part of the problem. Yes, the players let him down but 3 - 4 months on we still appear to have little in the way of a plan. Other managers with far less resources seem not to have that problem. It will be interesting to see who he brings in this month as he isn't willing to have any player at the club that won't do what he's told. It's his way or out the door they go.
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Our performances are very upsetting. At my age I should know better and by god I try to not let it effect me , but it does and I find myself drinking more and more alcohol to try to make it stop/make me feel better about it.
Early this season (Norwich away) I commented that RDM should resign after spending £50,000,000 and not being able to win any games. On reflection I was pissed and I was glad that no one commented as I am usually an optimist and was a little embarrassed to be calling for a Manager to be sacked so early.
I have had a good few again today and although I feel Bruce has earned a bit of leeway with his results I am not pleased with our performances under him and have grave doubts that He will sort out the problems we have.
I believe that Football success is all about money spent. Obviously we have the odd aberration such as Leicester but in general the more you spend on Transfer Fees and wages the more successful you will be.
That works with every club in the World except one.
Top spenders in England, Scotland, Spain, France, Germany etc will always be up at the top.
Why do we have to be the exception ? Our reserve GK probably cost more than Cardiff's starting Team.
How can we be dominated at Home against Burton Albion ?
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Listening to Bruce post match, once again you hear him nail it, sees it as most of us, today even questioned his own team selection. I just can't help thinking he's also part of the problem. Yes, the players let him down but 3 - 4 months on we still appear to have little in the way of a plan. Other managers with far less resources seem not to have that problem. It will be interesting to see who he brings in this month as he isn't willing to have any player at the club that won't do what he's told. It's his way or out the door they go.
I fear his way is not the right way for us.
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i want to be the woman who always asked SB the questions
Why the fuck did you start with Westwood and Gardner ?
I hope you will now replace Hutton?
why is agbonlahor getting time on the pitch?
what was the point of Ayew on the bench?
could you have at least had Rudy on the bench and let him go for talks tomorrow?
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Lowlights (http://www.skysports.com/football/cardiff-vs-a-villa/358402)
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Didn't see the game as I was travelling this afternoon, and so I'm just catching up now. I agree that the line-up doesn't look great, but agree with the point already made, that with the exception of Tshibola, who else at Bruce's disposal would have improved things? Presumably Ayew was left on the bench due to a potential transfer. It's pretty shocking have to remove both central midfielders at half time - quite a damning indictment.
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Haven't seen the game, so can't comment on that.
My thoughts on Bruce are simply that these are not his men, well some of them. It's always been a disjointed top heavy squad. He's done very well to get results. My only disappointment is that of Tshibola. Today doesn't help, he gambled on that midfield (a long range strike from Gardner and/or a tap in by McCormack) against a lesser opponent and lost.
It's obvious, the RDM hangover is still in effect, too many gaping holes in the squad to pad out 46 games plus the cups.
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Another very very frustrating day at the office. Bruce did as he admitted picked the wrong side however the display of many is just typical of the season.
Bruce has improved our points count but our performances haven't really improved. We rarely put in a 90 minute display only the odd decent move and for the money we have spent is simply not good enough. We have wasted a lot of money for me.
Bruce is the right man for the job as he is working out that most of these players are not up to it and is demanding more. Many of these players lack the desire passion to play at this level and we cannot afford to carry more than one luxury player in this team and at the moment we have too many of them e.g. Ayew, Grealish, McCormack, Kodija, Adomah. We are still not a team all working for one goal we have far too many individuals.
We are for me an 8th-10th team at best this season but we must stick with Bruce until summer 2018 where I hope we will go up
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Just watched the Sky 'highlights' pretty dire back passes at times. We were a bit unlucky to hit the bar twice, although Cardiff hit it as well. I'd say not as bad as Norwich - we had 67% possession today?
Nowhere near as bad as Norwich. We owned the ball today admittedly against a poor side. Whenever we went direct we lost it against their giants. Bruce needs to take a lot of flack today for his starting team. No pace or presence in midfield or up top. Ayew must have a move lined up
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Didn't see the game as I was travelling this afternoon, and so I'm just catching up now. I agree that the line-up doesn't look great, but agree with the point already made, that with the exception of Tshibola, who else at Bruce's disposal would have improved things?
Jordan Lyden is for me the automatic replacement for Jedi. In the few games that he's played, he never let us down nor failed to put his foot in.
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I don't think Lyden is fit. I haven't seen him play for the reserves this season.
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A combined nine 9 touches for Westwood and Gardner today if the text I just got is correct. I havent seen it mind. I was at the cinema watching Star Wars.
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Bruce will expect his midfielders to compete in every department, not choose which bits they participate in. And I think I can work out who he is directing his comments towards.
Westwood's not interested in the battle. He's only willing to run around a bit and pass sideways should someone be foolish enough to give him the ball. He might baloon the ball into orbit sometimes, by way of a pastiche of a shot. But has anyone ever seen him head a football? Take an effective set piece? Kick a football properly?
The equivalent of this would be a coal miner who's only prepared to go down the pit and crawl around down there for a bit before getting in the lift and coming back up to wash the coal dust off his knees. He'd be told to fuck off after about 20 minutes, which is what the charlatan Westwood should have been told years ago.
Ok, it's not just him. But he's been clinging to the toilet bowl that is Aston Villa like an unfeasibly greasy turd for fucking years now, shirking his responsibilities, stinking the place out and costing us points. He's a millionaire thanks to us. For the love of the screaming Christ, fuck him off IMMEDIATELY.
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How weak is their goal - why was nobody on the post?
As for that midfield, has there been a worse one in our recent history?
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On way home. Very poor first half, much better second and deserved at least a point. Simple for me we need two more in midfield. Get this right and we can still make the playoffs.
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A combined nine 9 touches for Westwood and Gardner today if the text I just got is correct. I havent seen it mind. I was at the cinema watching Star Wars.
According to whoscored.com Westwood had 3 touches, Gardner 6. In comparison Tshibola had 47 touches.
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Late December back in '74 we lost at Cardiff. Then lost one more game all season to get back to Division 1. Deja vu?
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Couple be a blessing in disguise at the start of the transfer window. There's no way they won't sort the midfield out now, and Bruce seemed to identify our problems there at half-time.
Stay in touch until end of the Afcon, bring in new blood, go on a run and sneak top six. Still doable, despite today.
Im starting to think it don't us to make the play offs. Even if we got promoted this squad would be smashed straight back down again. You can't rebuild a squad in the transfer window. We have got too many sub standard players that need to be replaced but it will take time.
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Today was the first time I feel that Bruce can be justifiably criticized. Admittedly his selection was limited but as the second half changes showed we were more than capable of completing physically. The first half the midfield weren't interested in the physical battle and that was down to the players he picked in there
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It's now 2017 and we've still got Hutton, Westwood, Agbonlahor and Gardener playing for us. This situation has been ongoing for years and until someone deals with it i can't see how we can move forward.
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Late December back in '74 we lost at Cardiff. Then lost one more game all season to get back to Division 1. Deja vu?
No.
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Can anyone that was actually at the match give us a full blow by blow account please ?
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A combined nine 9 touches for Westwood and Gardner today if the text I just got is correct. I havent seen it mind. I was at the cinema watching Star Wars.
I saw that stat as well. 9 touches, zero tackles, zero interceptions.
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I remember watching lyden play right back against Wycombe and thinking he looked a Tidy player who knew what he was doing. Compare that to Hutton who looks like he''s been pulled out of the pub, given some speed and then pointed in the direction of the pitch.
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A combined nine 9 touches for Westwood and Gardner today if the text I just got is correct. I havent seen it mind. I was at the cinema watching Star Wars.
I saw that stat as well. 9 touches, zero tackles, zero interceptions.
I could barely believe that when I saw it, had to check it myself. For central midfielders at ANY level, let alone the Championship, that is worse than embarrassing. You'd expect two CMs in a pub game having it lumped over their head for 90 minutes to at least TOUCH the ball more than 9 times!
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It's now 2017 and we've still got Hutton, Westwood, Agbonlahor and Gardener playing for us. This situation has been ongoing for years and until someone deals with it i can't see how we can move forward.
Dont forget Gardner's new contract
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A combined nine 9 touches for Westwood and Gardner today if the text I just got is correct. I havent seen it mind. I was at the cinema watching Star Wars.
According to whoscored.com Westwood had 3 touches, Gardner 6. In comparison Tshibola had 47 touches.
3 fucking touches? The fucking ballboy would have had more contact. What an out and out fucking wanker.
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We need a nasty bastard in midfield who everyone hates. We're a soft touch, too nice and too easy to play against.
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Lack of touches by a midfielder = taking no responsibility.
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It's now 2017 and we've still got Hutton, Westwood, Agbonlahor and Gardener playing for us. This situation has been ongoing for years and until someone deals with it i can't see how we can move forward.
Dont forget Gardner's new contract
And the fact that we still employ Richards, Bunn, Cissokho, Ayew, and Kozak!!WTF!!!
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Joey Barton.
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Joey Barton.
Ideal for a few betting tips.
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Didn't see the game as I was travelling this afternoon, and so I'm just catching up now. I agree that the line-up doesn't look great, but agree with the point already made, that with the exception of Tshibola, who else at Bruce's disposal would have improved things?
Jordan Lyden is for me the automatic replacement for Jedi. In the few games that he's played, he never let us down nor failed to put his foot in.
Jedi is an excellent player if deployed in a lowsitting defensive role. I think Morrison played just like that for Cardiff today. Bruce however tries to force him up the pitch and he becomes a liability with bad passes and non-extant pace. Especially if we are supposed to dominate the game. Bruce does however sometimes realize his error and tries to compensate by subs and position changes (like Wigan and Leeds recently). Bruce has done many this to improve Villa but he is also showing some signs that he is stubborn in some ways and lacks the ability to be flexible. In midfield he has admitted that Tshibola (and other midfileders) havnt gotten a fair chance yet due to the excellent play of the current midfielders.
Just who is he talking about that are doing so well?
Jedi did very well is the early tough games for Bruce (Reading, Brighton etc). But this is when he was sitting low and had two energetic players in front. Bruce have ended up pulling Jedi a couple of times where he has been pretty bad (and playing up pitch) and every time this has been an improvement. Most effective is when Bacuna and/or Grealish have replaced the starting midfielders. Yet when Bruce talks about players that been keeping Tshibola out its not Bacuna and Grealish he is referring too. Its hard to interpreter this as anything but that he rates Westwood and Gardner above every other central midfielder. I find that scary. There is even a risk that if we DO get new midfielders in January that Bruce STILL dont play them if they are not "industrious" enough.
So what happens if we buy a new bunch of players and STILL we end up starting Westwood every week?
I never seen him play a better game then last weekend against Leeds and that is based entirely on him backtracking on behalf a slow Jedinak. He still offered nothing forward on his best day. Tonight he was back to failing in every direction...but maybe thats ok...he is probably "industrious" in training tomorrow and earn a shirt at next game....
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These are transitional, short-term times. Don't rule anything in or out. A means to an end, and all that....
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Other than put Tshibola in from the start (which he probably should have done), i'm not sure what other options he had.
Why was Ayew kept back from joining his national team?
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Well we are a terrible team. Almost relegation fodder away from home but have managed to climb up to mid table through some very fortunate results at home despite playing total dross. I am not expecting anything this season such as play offs. Just need to sort ourselves out over this coming TW and the summer break.
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Other than put Tshibola in from the start (which he probably should have done), i'm not sure what other options he had.
Why was Ayew kept back from joining his national team?
Hopefully he had transfer discussions after the game
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Bruce said Gabby gave us a spark and was excellent. Deary me. What's his fascination with him? He should be nowhere near our squad.
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Bruce said Gabby gave us a spark and was excellent. Deary me. What's his fascination with him? He should be nowhere near our squad.
How did he play when he came on?
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Bruce said Gabby gave us a spark and was excellent. Deary me. What's his fascination with him? He should be nowhere near our squad.
Bit like your fascination with attendances Quinton ;)
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Agree aftab but are our picks in this window going to be any better than past purchases? We not only have bad players we have bad judges of players.
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Joey Barton.
Ideal for a few betting tips.
And just re-signed for Burnley.
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Bruce said Gabby gave us a spark and was excellent. Deary me. What's his fascination with him? He should be nowhere near our squad.
Bit like your fascination with attendances Quinton ;)
Chokes on cuppa
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As I have said before, Gabby is being put in the shop window. Bruce is riding to orders.
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BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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I said the other night that Bruce has a small group of match-day squad players in mind. All he is doing is chopping and changing them but does not go outside this group. Would Tshibola and RHM have got a look in if Jedinak had been fit or Kodjia available. Players come in and have a reasonable game, he plays them again and they let him down, then the cycle is then repeated.
The squad needs a shake up and sometimes you need to bring young players in for their enthusiasm to stir the other players up. Does Bruce have the confidence to tactically train young players or does he always rely on old heads?
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Bruce said Gabby gave us a spark and was excellent. Deary me. What's his fascination with him? He should be nowhere near our squad.
How did he play when he came on?
Fat.
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Late December back in '74 we lost at Cardiff. Then lost one more game all season to get back to Division 1. Deja vu?
No , Frankie Valli & The Four Seasons.
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Not great today, especially given the results above us have been wasted. Oh and my PNE supporting in-laws able to gloat again now they are back above us.
I still think we are close to having a decent team though, if only Bruce can find the players in positions that can allow us to get the best out of our underperforming but decent players.
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The best place for gabby would be in a fuckin shop window...marks and Spencer in Truro rather than villa park.
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Bruce said Gabby gave us a spark and was excellent. Deary me. What's his fascination with him? He should be nowhere near our squad.
How did he play when he came on?
Fat.
I watched the highlights and thought the video kept going into slow-mo every time Gabby got near the ball. I kept thinking John Woo had directed and cut the highlights and wondered if a pair of doves were gonna fly out of Gabby's fat fucking arse at some point.
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Late December back in '74 we lost at Cardiff. Then lost one more game all season to get back to Division 1. Deja vu?
No , Frankie Valli & The Four Seasons.
No. It was late December back in '63, and back in December '63 we were riding high in the first division then it fucking snowed!
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The best place for gabby would be in a fuckin shop window...marks and Spencer in Truro rather than villa park.
M&S wouldn't have him. He is past his sell-by date.
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How did Gabby play today (as in how well)? In the last Cardiff game I thought he did pretty well despite hitting their keeper in a one on one.
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But why give players a new contract, like Gardner, exactly what has he shown to deserve one? As regards transfers, from what i've read, SB had virtually got two players to sign on the dotted line. We really need 3/4 in before our match with Wolves.
I can still see us making the play offs but, NOT with the current midfield,
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The best place for gabby would be in a fuckin shop window...marks and Spencer in Truro rather than villa park.
M&S wouldn't have him. He is past his sell-by date.
Leave him out for the skip rats then.
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A combined nine 9 touches for Westwood and Gardner today if the text I just got is correct. I havent seen it mind. I was at the cinema watching Star Wars.
According to whoscored.com Westwood had 3 touches, Gardner 6. In comparison Tshibola had 47 touches.
If that stat is right it's staggering.
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You can imagine the conversation between SB and The doctor.....how many ??? HOW FUCKIN MUCH ?????
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How did Gabby play today (as in how well)? In the last Cardiff game I thought he did pretty well despite hitting their keeper in a one on one.
Decent enough, couple of good shots and added some much needed presence up there. Dribbling skills have long deserted him though, tries to turn a lad and ends up falling over quite a bit.
Still looks as if he needs to shift weight mind, McCormack too
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The time to give Bruce any stick is when he's had a chance to bring in players, are people forgetting how abysmal we've been for years? Di Matteo was happy with the midfielders we had and for that reason alone he should never manage a club again. Hutton is one of the worst players I've ever seen in a Villa shirt but who could play right back instead?
If by February we still have Westwood and Gardner as first team regulars then I'll probably join in with those who seemingly never wanted Bruce to succeed but until that moment arrives he needs to be given the chance to sort the mess out.
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We were lucky to get a win against Burton and lucky to get a draw against Leeds, I did think we could at least manage a draw against a struggling side. How naive of me.
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Just watched the highlights. Should have been four down at half time but could have easily finished 1-1.
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Joey Barton.
Ideal for a few betting tips.
And just re-signed for Burnley.
Good. I wouldn't want him anywhere Villa Park.
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It's still going to take time to sort the mess which started 5 years ago. The January transfer window and particularly next summer will be crucial. Steve Bruce needs time to bring in HIS own players! I'll trust him after getting 4 teams promoted previously.
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Chris, I'm not one to give SB any stick at this stage but, as a season ticket holder and, having watched all the home matches and quite a few of the away matches, the standard of play has still been nowhere like good enough. Also, I have been scratching my head at most of his starting line ups. I think his idea is still to hope to keep at 0-0 up to half time and then bring on some of the big guns from the bench. That to me is not the way to do it. Pick your strongest team always, put the opponents under pressure, score a couple of goals and then shut up shop in last 10/15 minutes. With his starting selections we rarely look like scoring which I think is the main problem.
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Einstein once defined "idiocy" as doing the same thing twice expecting different results...
.....Aston Villa has now done the Westwood-thing 146 times expecting any result...
...would Einstein even have a name for that behavior?
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didn't see the game but just watched the highlights and it looked like we had loads of chances and were a bit unlucky. Agbonlahor had a great chance which was deflected over.
We need to bring in some premiership players who are not getting games for their current clubs who will hit the ground running. Midfielders for sure. Brucie must surely know Gardner and Westwood are not what we need.
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According to a certain 'whoscored' stat website Ashley Westwood had just 3 touches of the ball today. Surely that's not true, even for someone as appalling as him?
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According to a certain 'whoscored' stat website Ashley Westwood had just 3 touches of the ball today. Surely that's not true, even for someone as appalling as him?
And 2 of those were in the warm up.
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According to a certain 'whoscored' stat website Ashley Westwood had just 3 touches of the ball today. Surely that's not true, even for someone as appalling as him?
What would Gary Neville and the Sky panel have made about that?
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According to a certain 'whoscored' stat website Ashley Westwood had just 3 touches of the ball today. Surely that's not true, even for someone as appalling as him?
Wasn't there an article the other week listing a number of goalkeepers who had touched the ball with their feet more than Westwood had on that day?
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9 touches of the ball between both Westwood and Gardner. Truly abysmal if true.
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How did Gabby play today (as in how well)? In the last Cardiff game I thought he did pretty well despite hitting their keeper in a one on one.
Decent enough, couple of good shots and added some much needed presence up there. Dribbling skills have long deserted him though, tries to turn a lad and ends up falling over quite a bit.
Still looks as if he needs to shift weight mind, McCormack too
Thanks. Maybe the club are trying to put him in the shop window.
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9 touches of the ball between both Westwood and Gardner. Truly abysmal if true.
No wonder they both got subbed early on. Absolutely dreadful pair of wasters.
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9 touches of the ball between both Westwood and Gardner. Truly abysmal if true.
No wonder they both got subbed early on. Absolutely dreadful pair of wasters.
Just unbelievable. We just have to get a new midfield. No excuses.
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Just home after match. Team selection, especially the midfield 2 put us on the back foot. 1st half awful, 2nd half better. We can't afford to give teams a 45min head start. Brontebilly earlier summed up Gabby. I would only add he had no link up play and lost every header to Bamba. For all Hutton's faults he was the only player who attempted to drive Villa on in the 1st half. Tish did well when he came on begging the question why hasn't he been used in the last 2+ months? Away form may cost us chance of a play-off spot.
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9 touches of the ball between both Westwood and Gardner. Truly abysmal if true.
No wonder they both got subbed early on. Absolutely dreadful pair of wasters.
If correct, there is no condemnation strong enough.
2 central midfielders with 9 touches between them!!!
It truly beggars belief.
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https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1085112/LiveStatistics/England-Championship-2016-2017-Cardiff-Aston-Villa
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Shocking first half and it can be no surprise with that midfield. That has to be the last time we see Westwood and Gardner.
We stood off them and let them physically bully us. We were so slow in moving the ball, it was just frustrating beyond belief against a dire side.
We need balance. I don't know why Tshibola didn't start, as he is a better option than the gruesome twosome.
We were better second half. Created two or three good chances, hit the post and made their keeper make a few good saves, while we got in good positions.
The level of protection or lack thereof for Grealish is scandalous. Warnock will be in line to replace Gatland when he finally leaves Wales. They're a proper bunch of thugs.
They didn't do a thing second half, but clearly we didn't do enough, although I thought we should have picked up a point.
The goal was shocking. What was Bunn doing to give the corner away in the first place? Then to let the ball bounce and bobble like that, embarrassing. We had a moment of chaos as well where they could have scored once or twice more.
Things had to change second half. Thought Tshibola did ok. Physically strong and picks a better forward pass than Westwood.
McCormack can't play up front on his own and it made no sense knocking balls into the channel for him. Hutton is the most guilty individual for this. Such a pity De Laet got injured, as him, Bunn, Westwood and Gardner need to be bit part players at the very most.
Time to get the cheque book out and sort that fucking midfield before we blow our chance of the Play offs. Thank goodness results were OK for us today.
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Listening to Bruce post match, once again you hear him nail it, sees it as most of us, today even questioned his own team selection. I just can't help thinking he's also part of the problem. Yes, the players let him down but 3 - 4 months on we still appear to have little in the way of a plan. Other managers with far less resources seem not to have that problem. It will be interesting to see who he brings in this month as he isn't willing to have any player at the club that won't do what he's told. It's his way or out the door they go.
Only problem there is he said the exact same things after Norwich and here we are 3 weeks later putting in another mediocre away performance.
As much as I back SB I've been really disappointed with how he continually sets us up away from home. Seemingly the plan is to keep it tight for an hour and then nick it 1-0. It worked at an awful QPR but not at Leeds or Norwich.
We can't just rely on our home form to get top 6. One away win in 3 months says it all. 7 away goals is laughable considering what we've spent
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Late December back in '74 we lost at Cardiff. Then lost one more game all season to get back to Division 1. Deja vu?
We played Cardiff in January this time. ;)
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I don't know what to make of those stats. It looks outrageously bad, but was this because both sides were lumping it long first half? Tshibola, coming on second half has 10 times the number of touches than Westwood / Gardener?!?
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Just home and not read the thread yet but here goes. First half was disgraceful, and if those stats are true re GG & AW then they should both be discarded. Second half was a marked improvement but we played into their hands way too often - long balls that was meat and drink to their defence. In fairness, I thought Gabby did well...he's still far from what he was but he put a shift in and had two decent shots, which is more than I can recall for years.
The bottom line is that we need practically a whole new midfield, and Bruce surely has to see to this and quick. We can forget the play offs that's for sure.
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According to a certain 'whoscored' stat website Ashley Westwood had just 3 touches of the ball today. Surely that's not true, even for someone as appalling as him?
I can't get my head around that
I'm refusing to believe it based on it must be virtually impossible to only touch the ball 3 times in a whole half of football, impossible
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According to a certain 'whoscored' stat website Ashley Westwood had just 3 touches of the ball today. Surely that's not true, even for someone as appalling as him?
I can't get my head around that
I'm refusing to believe it based on it must be virtually impossible to only touch the ball 3 times in a whole half of football, impossible
[/quoteAsk Gary Fucking Nevile
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Agree aftab but are our picks in this window going to be any better than past purchases? We not only have bad players we have bad judges of players.
I am hoping Bruce would choose better however I have little confidence. I think he may well cobble up a team to get us promoted but his record at building teams for top division is poor.
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Late December back in '74 we lost at Cardiff. Then lost one more game all season to get back to Division 1. Deja vu?
We played Cardiff in January this time. ;)
Did we have two mannequins in midfield back then as well?
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I don't know what to make of those stats. It looks outrageously bad, but was this because both sides were lumping it long first half? Tshibola, coming on second half has 10 times the number of touches than Westwood / Gardener?!?
If the game had been some sort of bizarre tennis match using those two as the net, you'd still expect them to have had more touches than that in 45 minutes.
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even Gabby had 8 touches in that infamous match at WHL and he's a striker so just 3 touches for a midfielder (using the term loosely) I still think is impossible
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We stood off them and let them physically bully us. We were so slow in moving the ball, it was just frustrating beyond belief against a dire side.
We have been all along since Bruce came in and, in my opinion, that's something you can address in training. My concern is that Bruce either doesn't care because the results have generally been ok (although 3 defeats in the last 4 away games is shocking and needs to be addressed) or he decided that he'd take the 'easy' option and let the players take the blame until the window. I don't want him to fail (no matter how many times people suggest it) but I won't give him a free pass for the mistakes he makes that's why I'm negative about him, right now I see a honeymoon period (which a lot of people have missed because we haven't had them the last few times) that I'm worried is wearing thin.
Clampy has, a few times on this thread, suggested that he didn't really have the options to do anything different. I disagree. He's had nearly 3 months to give tish and lyden a chance but he's chosen to stick with 'tried and tested' Westwood and Gardner. He's had all that time to get the players working on looking like they train as a group and trust each enough to play and receive the ball, he's chosen to not do it. The first half today, both Leeds games, Norwich, Burton, Blues all games where he's sent us out to try to not concede rather than to try to win. All of you slag off managers who've done this in the past so why is it fine when Bruce does it?
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9 touches between them? Mind-boggling. And one of Westwood's three touches was blazing a "shot" high over the bar. We literally had no midfield first half.
I said during the game I'd never seen a player fouled as much in one game as Jack was. They'd obviously targeted him and the ref offered him no protection, meaning it just went on and on.
On the way home I had the misfortune to catch the talksport phone in where a Cardiff fan rang in specifically to talk about Grealish. He called Jack an embarrassment to football, who dived throughout the game, and needs to man up and deal with the Championship. Just shows that their fans are falling for Colin Wanker's bullshit.
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Christ, is that correct?
Westwood touched the ball three times and Gardner six?
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Christ, is that correct?
Westwood touched the ball three times and Gardner six?
On the plus side they could only give it back to the opposition a maximum nine times between them.
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Christ, is that correct?
Westwood touched the ball three times and Gardner six?
And completed 3 of 4 passes. 4 fucking passes!
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it's got to be fake news
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That's twice now this season that Westwood has been brought off at half time. I just cannot understand how his game has deteriorated so much over the last couple of seasons. When you look at his stats this season, they are embarrassing for a player with his experience. He has lost all confidence in himself and looks as though he is hiding in games. People said that he played fairly well against Leeds but even in that game I thought he was a passenger in the 1st half and it was only when Jedinak went off that he started to get into the game.
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I don't know what to make of those stats. It looks outrageously bad, but was this because both sides were lumping it long first half? Tshibola, coming on second half has 10 times the number of touches than Westwood / Gardener?!?
If the game had been some sort of bizarre tennis match using those two as the net, you'd still expect them to have had more touches than that in 45 minutes.
Given they were the two sitters you'd expect one of them at least to offer themselves short as an easy pass when the CBs had the ball. Westwood does at least usually do this.
Also suggests to me neither were getting to the 50/50s.
Gardner-Westwood as a combo is piss poor, we saw that earlier on in the season.
I would judge this transfer window as a success if from Feb 1st Gardner, Westwood and Hutton are no longer starting games for us. It should've happened long ago.
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I think three good midfielders are a minimum this month.
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That's twice now this season that Westwood has been brought off at half time. I just cannot understand how his game has deteriorated so much over the last couple of seasons. When you look at his stats this season, they are embarrassing for a player with his experience. He has lost all confidence in himself and looks as though he is hiding in games. People said that he played fairly well against Leeds but even in that game I thought he was a passenger in the 1st half and it was only when Jedinak went off that he started to get into the game.
Him at Preston was one of the worst performances from a Villa midfielder I'd ever seen.
What I find bizarre is since then he's still started about 10 games for us. Tshibola had a dodgy game v Wolves and we haven't seen him for three months.
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the positive is that Bruce has seen how poor some of these cowards in our team are; now he can bomb them out and replace them. The poorest ones are the ones that have been rotting our club for a while.
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Tshibola and his agent act the goat. Westwood keeps it zipped and trains hard. Westwood gets on the team sheet Tshibola doesn't.
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Got up at 6.30 this morning to get to Brum for coach etc .
At 2pm wondered why I bothered .
Pathetic midfield selection - which has been shown up for what it was by the 6 and 3 stats .
Time for Bruce to show if he can be ruthless or not .
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Polishing a turd, some from last season, some from the summer. Only Baker worth his place in the back four, Chester hopeless as a leader and underperforming but should work long term. Midfield shambolic - Grealish and Mccormack as a No 10 and work from there, clear out all the others, too poor even for Championship level, it's obvious now. Up front a head scratcher during the African Nations but Gabby (drinking the dregs in the last chance saloon) H-murphy and a new signing (please, if Gestede has gone, there must be surely). But watching the last few games, we're lucky still to be mid table. Bruce now must earn his money.
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We stood off them and let them physically bully us. We were so slow in moving the ball, it was just frustrating beyond belief against a dire side.
Clampy has, a few times on this thread, suggested that he didn't really have the options to do anything different. I disagree. He's had nearly 3 months to give tish and lyden a chance but he's chosen to stick with 'tried and tested' Westwood and Gardner. He's had all that time to get the players working on looking like they train as a group and trust each enough to play and receive the ball, he's chosen to not do it. The first half today, both Leeds games, Norwich, Burton, Blues all games where he's sent us out to try to not concede rather than to try to win. All of you slag off managers who've done this in the past so why is it fine when Bruce does it?
I haven't mentioned it a few times tonight at all, I've mentioned it once and it was valid point and a few others have agreed but if you feel the need to single me out then err...fine. A bit creepy but fine.
Tshibola has been nowhere near the squad and should have been. Someone mentioned the possibility of Lyden being injured as he's not played for the U23's but not too many others have been clamouring for his inclusion anyway.
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That's twice now this season that Westwood has been brought off at half time. I just cannot understand how his game has deteriorated so much over the last couple of seasons. When you look at his stats this season, they are embarrassing for a player with his experience. He has lost all confidence in himself and looks as though he is hiding in games. People said that he played fairly well against Leeds but even in that game I thought he was a passenger in the 1st half and it was only when Jedinak went off that he started to get into the game.
It's like he's slowly but steadily completely forgotten how to play football over three years - he had 6(!) assists in his first season with us, and the season after he averaged as many key passes per game as Milner had in his final season with us. Outside of Barry and Milner, I don't think we've had anyone with that sort of creative output from centre midfield in the past decade or so (Stan was superb obviously, but never a creative player), but that side of the game has completely and utterly deserted him, when that was really the key to him being a useful player given the limitations he has elsewhere.
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What if Tshib and Jordan are worse though?
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What if Tshib and Jordan are worse though?
That's hard to both believe and achieve.
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What if Tshib and Jordan are worse though?
They might be but based on today I think that's a tough ask. However that still doesn't address the fact that he hasn't even tried them and only 1 of our midfielders has looked worthy of the title since Bruce came in (and he's the one who is effectively a central defender playing 10 yards further forward)
I haven't mentioned it a few times tonight at all, I've mentioned it once and it was valid point and a few others have agreed but if you feel the need to single me out then err...fine. A bit creepy but fine.
Yep, once sorry, still a pretty strange thing to say (although you did at least hint that you think he made a mistake). I singled you out because when I made some criticism after the Leeds game you singled me out for it so don't act like it's some massive surprise that I paid attention to what you h\ad to say today. I quoted ads as well because he was arguing about it just as much only to today make a similar observation to one I've made a few times int he last few months which is that we play the ball through midfield very slowly. The other day I suggested that a big problem was that we backed off and let them dominate, today we didn't even start well and just let them dominate from the off.
The midfield options aren't perfect but we're worse than the sum of our parts in there and he has to be held responsible for that as the guy who sets the tactics and runs the training.
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What a joke goal that was to concede....exactly like the one v Leeds. Not good we're suddenly looking weak again from corners defensively.
Very much an off day from the defence looking at the highlights.
Gabby unlucky not to score.
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Christ, is that correct?
Westwood touched the ball three times and Gardner six?
Afraid so, and one of Westwood's (three) was a shot that ended up in Row ZZ of the home end!
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How weak is their goal - why was nobody on the post?
As for that midfield, has there been a worse one in our recent history?
That's exactly what I said when Leeds scored. Kodjia was supposed to be on the post but wandered off. If he had stayed there, he would have cleared the ball off the line. Same today. McCormack was supposed to be there but he wandered too. Result - another goal that could have been prevented.
This to me is pretty basic stuff so why in McGrath's name has it happened in two consecutive games?
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Christ, is that correct?
Westwood touched the ball three times and Gardner six?
Afraid so, and one of Westwood's (three) was a shot that ended up in Row ZZ of the home end!
... at Swansea.
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What a joke goal that was to concede....exactly like the one v Leeds. Not good we're suddenly looking weak again from corners defensively.
Very much an off day from the defence looking at the highlights.
Gabby unlucky not to score.
Bunn's just not a very good goalkeeper and he should never be starting for us.
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I was lucky enough to be invited to the match today from the chairman and owner of Cardiff, really hospitable guys. Even when I rocked up wearing a Villa tie and sat in between them they were cool and accommodating.
They were mega surprised and delighted to have won the match and were being as polite as they could towards Villa but it was easy to see that even they were expecting a better side to show up against them.
The Villa table next to me with Wyness, Little, Round and Tayls on it were ashen faced from the off. I commented after the match that we'd be bloody lucky to get anywhere near the plays offs playing like that at the end at to a man they all looked down at their shoes.
Bad day at the office.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again.This is the worst squad of players I can recall at Villa. Quite how SB can address this in a mid season window eludes me.
We are very fortunate to be in a relatively safe position in the league.
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Someone mentioned the possibility of Lyden being injured as he's not played for the U23's but not too many others have been clamouring for his inclusion anyway.
A couple of games for the U21s, new 2 year contract in September and still further problems with his injury keeping him out 'until Christmas'. Considering the lack of news about him anywhere on the net, it's hardly a surprise not too many were 'clamouring for his inclusion'.
I'm hoping that the stories I read about Bruce having no faith in the kids at all his previous clubs is just BS. From what he said post-match, if you're willing to put in a shift he'd consider anybody from the U11s upwards.
Doubt it will sort out our lack of height though. It will be interesting how he now approaches the problem. No point hoofing it up front for the big lads anymore.
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Can the away fans explain why they gave Agbonlahor a burst of his song? Did he deserve such an honour?
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I certainly don't think he's done anywhere near enough to warrant an outburst of 'his' song but to his credit the effort was there today and he was certainly our best forward player on the pitch
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Jedinak was clearly missed today. He cannot be expected to play every game.
Get Sanchez back.
The pair of them covering the defence would be great. Or at least one of them.
First team players will be arriving soon.
63 points to be fought for.
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Nine touches between two so called Central Midfielders is tantamount to actually stealing money from the club.
People questioning Bruce and these two put in that sort of battling performance. He only could've picked Tshibola instead and he corrected that at Half Time.
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I think three good midfielders are a minimum this month.
And a goal keeper, a right back and a proper centr forward.
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9 touches of the ball between both Westwood and Gardner. Truly abysmal if true.
Having being at the game today it's safe to say this can be filed under the fake news category. Both passed back to the centre halves on a number of occasions. Gardner in particular was horrible, any kind of pressure on him and he starts looking very leggy with the ball at his feet. Westwood too is safety first pass always. Both as soft as shite too so not a partnership you want in there against their hackers.
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Get Sanchez back
Oi, put the glue down mate
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9 touches of the ball between both Westwood and Gardner. Truly abysmal if true.
Having being at the game today it's safe to say this can be filed under the fake news category. Both passed back to the centre halves on a number of occasions. Gardner in particular was horrible, any kind of pressure on him and he starts looking very leggy with the ball at his feet. Westwood too is safety first pass always. Both as soft as shite too so not a partnership you want in there against their hackers.
Had a look at both Whoscored and Squawka, both of them confirmed that dismal total unfortunately.
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9 touches of the ball between both Westwood and Gardner. Truly abysmal if true.
Having being at the game today it's safe to say this can be filed under the fake news category. Both passed back to the centre halves on a number of occasions. Gardner in particular was horrible, any kind of pressure on him and he starts looking very leggy with the ball at his feet. Westwood too is safety first pass always. Both as soft as shite too so not a partnership you want in there against their hackers.
Had a look at both Whoscored and Squawka, both of them confirmed that dismal total unfortunately.
They are just not very good players. Sadly.
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So, a H&V poster actually present at the game dismisses the 'no more than 9 touches' story as fake news, only to be told that a couple of football stat websites 'confirmed the dismal total'. Absolutely brilliant.
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Sanchez should be bought back as should veretout both are far better than Westwood and Gardner
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I think that 9 touch story is wrong too. They touched it more than 9 times in a spell where we passed it side ways for a few minutes, while they were also collecting it from the centre halves.
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We are getting like the Americans and reducing sport to numbers. Only the result is numbers. How many times players do or don't touch the ball is not the problem. The problem is that the elephant in the room when Bruce wrote out the team sheet was the fact that Warnock would tell his players to kick lumps out of us. Neither Westwood nor Gardner has the physical strength or courage to deal with a Warnock managed Cardiff side. Tshibola's off field antics have upset Bruce so the team sheet is used to discipline him. Lyden is young and inexperienced so Bruce by nature and habit ignores him. Lyden is hard and brave and is no way worse than Westwood or Gardner. RHM is young and inexperienced so is forced behind multi, multi, multi under performing Gabby in pitch time to prove himself. We put out unbalanced, misfiring teams time and again because we place too much faith in known failures than unproven potential winners getting their chance.
Like Mr Woodhall, my mood is sombre. I can see what I have said above being the yardstick of transfer business and we will get Premiership bottom six thirty something year old bench warmers when we need young, athletic players with good engines trying to make names for themselves in the game.
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I think Lyden is injured.
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I stand corrected.
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We are getting like the Americans and reducing sport to numbers. Only the result is numbers. How many times players do or don't touch the ball is not the problem. The problem is that the elephant in the room when Bruce wrote out the team sheet was the fact that Warnock would tell his players to kick lumps out of us. Neither Westwood nor Gardner has the physical strength or courage to deal with a Warnock managed Cardiff side. Tshibola's off field antics have upset Bruce so the team sheet is used to discipline him. Lyden is young and inexperienced so Bruce by nature and habit ignores him. Lyden is hard and brave and is no way worse than Westwood or Gardner. RHM is young and inexperienced so is forced behind multi, multi, multi under performing Gabby in pitch time to prove himself. We put out unbalanced, misfiring teams time and again because we place too much faith in known failures than unproven potential winners getting their chance.
Like Mr Woodhall, my mood is sombre. I can see what I have said above being the yardstick of transfer business and we will get Premiership bottom six thirty something year old bench warmers when we need young, athletic players with good engines trying to make names for themselves in the game.
I suppose you could argue that we went with unproven winners under Lambert and it didn't get us anywhere. I don't think anyone really knows the calibre of player Bruce will bring in and while we can speculate that he'll bring in thirty year old bench warmers, there's a chance he might not. Given his track record of getting teams up, he'll obviously know the type of player that he wants.
I do agree about RHM though.
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I think we'll be ok once he brings his own players in. he's doing pretty ok with the deadwood he inherited from last season plus the new signings he didnt buy. We've earnt a lot of points from his 13 or so games without playing well in a fair few of them which shows he has some talent from getting results out of this team which for several years has had a downer mentality. Had he been here in August we'd in those play off places at least. I agree we will do well to get promoted this season but i never once thought it would be a straight return and from the mess we were in end of last seasons its a lot healthier and happier place now. Fine tune that team and we'll be ok in this division. Once we do go back up - however long that takes - then the Premier League would be a whole different matter altogether.
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we are light years away from PL standard. I would much rather another season in the Chumps getting the balance of the squad right . How successive managers have failed to do this is beyond egregious
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Sanchez should be bought back as should veretout both are far better than Westwood and Gardner
Sanchez was horrendous let's be honest, Veretout thought he was too good for the second division
Time to move on, time for Westwood to move on too
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We are getting like the Americans and reducing sport to numbers. Only the result is numbers. How many times players do or don't touch the ball is not the problem. The problem is that the elephant in the room when Bruce wrote out the team sheet was the fact that Warnock would tell his players to kick lumps out of us. Neither Westwood nor Gardner has the physical strength or courage to deal with a Warnock managed Cardiff side. Tshibola's off field antics have upset Bruce so the team sheet is used to discipline him. Lyden is young and inexperienced so Bruce by nature and habit ignores him. Lyden is hard and brave and is no way worse than Westwood or Gardner. RHM is young and inexperienced so is forced behind multi, multi, multi under performing Gabby in pitch time to prove himself. We put out unbalanced, misfiring teams time and again because we place too much faith in known failures than unproven potential winners getting their chance.
Like Mr Woodhall, my mood is sombre. I can see what I have said above being the yardstick of transfer business and we will get Premiership bottom six thirty something year old bench warmers when we need young, athletic players with good engines trying to make names for themselves in the game.
I suppose you could argue that we went with unproven winners under Lambert and it didn't get us anywhere. I don't think anyone really knows the calibre of player Bruce will bring in and while we can speculate that he'll bring in thirty year old bench warmers, there's a chance he might not. Given his track record of getting teams up, he'll obviously know the type of player that he wants.
I do agree about RHM though.
I don't think you can argue that for Lambert at all. He went for players who he'd scouted as having the potential to improve but I don't think any of them were particularly highly regarded or with a particularly outstanding record (Okore being the oddity in this). Players like Green and RHM are different, they're youngsters at the club who, like Grealish, have been 'best in class' at pretty much every level they've played for us.
Aside from that trusting youngsters to change our fortunes in the premier league is very different to bringing them in to replace shite like Gabby now. The key thing we need in the team is pace and power, we're lightweight and everything happens too slowly. That's why people want to see more of Tish, he's a big lad with a bit of pace.
As for the '30 year old bench warmers' last summer he signed Ryan Taylor and Shaun Maloney who both fit that bill perfectly. That's not me saying he'll do it now, I'm just highlighting why some people think that's the route he'll follow.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again.This is the worst squad of players I can recall at Villa. Quite how SB can address this in a mid season window eludes me.
We are very fortunate to be in a relatively safe position in the league.
We are playing at a woeful level though let's be honest, Joe Bennett who bombed for us was one of Cardiffs best yesterday for example. Steve Sidwell dominates for Brighton and we know how crap he is.
Bruce should be able to get us playing to some kind of standard. It was hard to know yesterday what kind of football we were trying to play even in the second half. When we kept it down the wings we looked decent but why is Hutton given a free reign to bomb forward but Amavi never does? It was hard to know which of Bacuna or Tshibola was the holding/attacking midfielder and neither attempted to break into the box to attack a cross. Just seems like the players are not well drilled on what Bruce expects of them on the pitch.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again.This is the worst squad of players I can recall at Villa. Quite how SB can address this in a mid season window eludes me.
We are very fortunate to be in a relatively safe position in the league.
We are playing at a woeful level though let's be honest, Joe Bennett who bombed for us was one of Cardiffs best yesterday for example. Steve Sidwell dominates for Brighton and we know how crap he is.
Bruce should be able to get us playing to some kind of standard. It was hard to know yesterday what kind of football we were trying to play even in the second half. When we kept it down the wings we looked decent but why is Hutton given a free reign to bomb forward but Amavi never does? It was hard to know which of Bacuna or Tshibola was the holding/attacking midfielder and neither attempted to break into the box to attack a cross. Just seems like the players are not well drilled on what Bruce expects of them on the pitch.
Exactly right, I want to see some evidence of what we do in training because the only thing that's improved since he arrived is the concentration at the end of games. That's a big thing to improve and it's he's got us from struggling at the wrong end to eyeing up the play offs but there needs to be some work on our play style as well.
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On the Amavi/Hutton thing, my guess will be that Hutton's getting forward more because he's allowed to. Oppos know that Amavi is more of a threat and concentrate on denying him space - and you can't run forward into no space. Bruce should probably be working on ways of getting space for Amavi, but that is pretty hard when you've got no midfielders.
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I don't think Hutton has been as bad this season as in previous ones. I've always thought Bacuna has done a reasonable job at right back when he's played there.
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We don't have a terrible squad we are just weak in key areas, i.e. central midfield and sticks.
We are one player short of a very decent defence for this league and a better keeper would probably have us in the playoff places at this point even after our terrible start and our shockers against Norwich, Cardiff, Leeds.
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On the Amavi/Hutton thing, my guess will be that Hutton's getting forward more because he's allowed to. Oppos know that Amavi is more of a threat and concentrate on denying him space - and you can't run forward into no space. Bruce should probably be working on ways of getting space for Amavi, but that is pretty hard when you've got no midfielders.
My take on the situation too. The whole thing collapses on our lack of effective midfielders, and we're failing to get the best out of considerable talent in other areas because of it.
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No protection for the defense, no support for the attack. Just a big gaping whole of nothingness. We play most games with 9 men.
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On the Amavi/Hutton thing, my guess will be that Hutton's getting forward more because he's allowed to. Oppos know that Amavi is more of a threat and concentrate on denying him space - and you can't run forward into no space. Bruce should probably be working on ways of getting space for Amavi, but that is pretty hard when you've got no midfielders.
If you are going to use fullbacks to get forward, the last thing you want is two wide midfield players in a 4-4-2 sitting just in front of the defence. As you say, they need space.
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I've just seen the Cardiff goal. Words fail me.
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I've just seen the Cardiff goal. Words fail me.
Same. Special mention for Ross somehow shepherding it in, and then turning to complain, when he could have taken the grand total of two steps forward and twatted it into their half.
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I too have just seen the goal for the first time. What a bunch of flaccid quimstakes!
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No protection for the defense, no support for the attack. Just a big gaping whole of nothingness. We play most games with 9 men.
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k149/jr7m1o6b/midfield_zpsqqo7pf3i.jpg)
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I too have just seen the goal for the first time. What a bunch of flaccid quimstakes!
Brilliant!
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Anyone who still thinks we can be promoted this season is delusional. This amalgam of poseurs, journeymen and dilettanti are much more likely to get us demoted again.
Norm.
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Anyone who still thinks we can be promoted this season is delusional. This amalgam of poseurs, journeymen and dilettanti are much more likely to get us demoted again.
Norm.
What absolute guff. Promotion this season will be tough but in truth we only need 1 decent run and we're right back in the mix for the playoffs, we have enough quality in the squad to do that if we can find a way to get the most out of it.
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Cardiff was a wake up call. We have stumbled our way through the last month, winning three and drawing one, but losing three away without scoring. We were found out by a mediocre meat-and-potatoes lower-half-of-the-table outfit on the day when elsewhere the likes of Reading and Brighton showed their mettle and showed us up by coming from behind to win away. After Cardiff we should be under no illusion that we are anywhere near good enough for the play offs as we are currently configured. We got out of jail late against the likes of Wigan and Burton, but the truth is that if we have any pretensions to be promotion material we should be winning games against these sorts of teams far more comfortably. It couldn't carry on, and at Cardiff, we got what we deserved, leaving us now over the half way mark in the season and still sitting behind the likes of Preston and Barnsley in the table. Having said all that, I believe that it wouldn't take too much to turn us into something far, far better. As has been set out very clearly right through this thread, we are carrying passengers. Gardner, Westwood, Bacuna, Gabby and Hutton ain't good enough. Never have been, never will be. They were some of the chief culprits last season, and they hang around us like a dead weight this season. They need to be discarded urgently. Get some strength and belief in the midfield by introducing a couple of decent box-to-box type midfielders that can win the ball, hold the ball, direct traffic and set an example, and we'd see more from the players around them. The injection of new enthusiasm could turn things around and propel us up the table.
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Well said, Paul.
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I've just seen the Cardiff goal. Words fail me.
It was like a scene from a chuckle brothers sketch. Pathetic, someone just deal with it and put a fucking boot through it properly, the problem is half of our players kick like Westwood and seem to struggle to kick a ball properly in a direction of their choice.
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more sadly who was the idiots who decided to attack the family section at cardiff lock them all up and throw away the key
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I've just seen the Cardiff goal. Words fail me.
It was like a scene from a chuckle brothers sketch. Pathetic, someone just deal with it and put a fucking boot through it properly, the problem is half of our players kick like Westwood and seem to struggle to kick a ball properly in a direction of their choice.
Having mustered the courage to watch a re-run of that fuck fest of a goal im almost lost for words. It's as calamitous as anything we've seen in the last few seasons. For a start the delivery was Westwoodesque. Amavi had an easy clearance Bunn did a passable impression of Guzan at his most clown like then some ping pong erupted followed by a lucky deflected goal!!!! Fucking hell...... no way can SB turn things around that much for us to take on the Premier league next season. We would be smashed back into the championship in embarrassing fashion. He needs to be given time to build a team capable of a Championship assault next season. Then we might be ready for the premier league. Just put this season down to experience.
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I have seen that the post match stats have been adjusted
30 touches for Westwood and 41 for Gardner apparently. As they only had half a game that was a higher rate of involvement than most of the team for the time they were on.
Clearly they were hauled off at half time for generic ineffectiveness, but I think it's still relevant to put the '9 touches between them' stat to bed.
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I have seen that the post match stats have been adjusted
30 touches for Westwood and 41 for Gardner apparently. As they only had half a game that was a higher rate of involvement than most of the team for the time they were on.
Clearly they were hauled off at half time for generic ineffectiveness, but I think it's still relevant to put the '9 touches between them' stat to bed.
These people also want to ignore Westwood's impressive pointing statistics. Very unfair.
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Let's just put them to bed full stop and sell the useless pair this January, Forest might buy Gardner for a few quid and maybe Crewe will take the other clown back.
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more sadly who was the idiots who decided to attack the family section at cardiff lock them all up and throw away the key
Tell us more. Obviously you were there.
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Anyone who still thinks we can be promoted this season is delusional. This amalgam of poseurs, journeymen and dilettanti are much more likely to get us demoted again.
Norm.
Delusional of Erdington here. We will make the top 6.
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We don't have a terrible squad we are just weak in key areas, i.e. central midfield and sticks.
This. We only half a decent spine.
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I don't think Hutton has been as bad this season as in previous ones. I've always thought Bacuna has done a reasonable job at right back when he's played there.
I must have forgotten how bad Hutton was in previous seasons. Because to my mind this season he is the worst player I have seen play for Villa.
He is just so stupid, his positioning is non existent.
I went to the Burton game where to be fair I concentrated on him a fair bit (but so the opposition with good reason). He is constantly on the edge of the opposition penalty area whether we or they are attacking. You can see teams are being coached to leave him in loads of space in the hope one of his team mates passes him the ball. It is almost better than a tackle for them as they know he is going to do nothing and they don't have to lose their shape. He will be out of position leaving a gaping hole where we should be playing a right back as the opposition build another attack based on him losing possession.
He is just not a footballer.