Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: PeterWithesShin on December 29, 2016, 09:41:01 PM
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Phew.
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Deserved overall.
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I'm not sure we deserved that point, but very grateful for it. We have to improve if we've got eyes on the playoff spots.
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A draw, as expected, but forget promotion this season.
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Relieved.
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Millions spent.....millions wasted.
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Phew. Westwood did ok, Ayew and Amavi V V suspect. One thing you have to say is we never give up now. Exciting match and could be a decent point in the long term, especially if we beat Cardiff.
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We're still a bit shit aren't we.
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Pretty poor and largely clueless in second half. In the second half we looked like a team of individuals.
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Could have won it, but just as easily could have lost it. Amavi's defending was awful in the final stages.
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Unlucky, u wouldn't say shit
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We keep creeping upwards.
We do make hard work of it, Leeds were bobbins for most of the game and somehow we made them look good.
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phew, lucky point there. We really need to score when we're on top!
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Good and bad.Villa Park becoming a fortress again is very pleasing.Liking Chester as our captain a lot.
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Next time I bump into Andy Garratt walking his beagles in Clayhanger I shall give him a pat on the back from each & every one of us.
Amavi had a mare tonight, hopefully a 1 off for him. Need more ruthlessness to back up the promising build up play.
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Only followed on text from Perth
The impression I have is that we fought hard and could have scored more. But overall got very lucky with them hitting woodwork twice and missing an easy one on one
Midfield still the biggest problem and Jedinak seems to be wavering again after a handful of excellent performances. We know the rest aren't good enough
Still don't think we're good enough to get promoted this season. Still only two wins against the top 18 all season.
Good to keep the unbeaten home run going
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Jedinak and Ayew were poor, Amavi was awful at times defensively. Westwood did well overall.
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If we want to battle for promotion we need a right back and a midfield.
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Yet we started well and if we'd got a goal might have turned the screw on them. We're just fatally lacking in bottle and confidence. We are the ultimate don't-like-it-up-em team. Concede and we throw our hands in the air and lose our shit.
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Glad we've got enough about us to battle for a draw when we weren't very good again. Too many average performances.
Happy with a draw, for a lot of that second half I thought we were done for.
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Jedinak and Ayew were poor, Amavi was awful at times defensively. Westwood did well overall.
You're not allowed to say that about Westwood apparently
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A draw, as expected, but forget promotion this season.
You do know we are only 5pts off playoffs and have just drawn against the form team in the league in a game we could have so easily won with two v good late chances (I know we could have also lost) I fail to see how you can write off promotion with a multi millionaire owner, a manager that has done it four times before and half the season left to go
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I don't want to see Ayew again, he is a luxury player we can't afford and I hope we sell him. Other players were below par tonight too including Jedinak and Amarvi who had a shocker I thought. Bruce needed to change things earlier than he did, but made the right calls I thought.
Special mention to Jansson, who is the most annoying opposition player I can remember for a good long while. Took Grealish out and the ref didn't even give a free kick - that happens in the premier league and it's at least a booking.
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Our biggest problem is that our defence, midfield and attack appear to act as completely separate unrelated units. There is no common cohesion.
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We keep creeping upwards.
We do make hard work of it, Leeds were bobbins for most of the game and somehow we made them look good.
I thought second half they were much the better team and played some decent stuff albeit through our left side where Amavi was awful.
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Fair play to Bruce for turning it around.
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Leeds have been absolutely fucking awful in the two games against us and ended up taking 4 points.
Kodjia's decision making is so bad, he squares that chance at the end and McCormack rolls it into an empty net, he tries way to much.
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we only played with 10 men westwood and hutton are half each
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Miles off being a top 6 side right now. That was largely hopeless.
As for Amavi, he was shocking all game. If we really did have a 25 million bid come in, we should snap their fucking hands off. Though on todays display we'll be lucky to get two pence.
Kodjia will be a huge miss.
Adomah made a difference when he came on.
McCormack couldn't hack playing so soon after boxing day (even coming on for less than half a game).
We need 3-4 solid performers in January if we've got any hope of breaking the top 6. As it stands we're not good enough.
Cash in on the Jordans. Buy a few solid performers. Defenders who can defend. Attacking players who might not be loaded with skill but deliver a 7/10 every game. Someone like Brady would be good. We need a second Adomah too. He creates chances. He does his job well. He won't always have the greatest game, but he'll still make things happen. Ayew did naff all today. Grealish just sauntered and did nothing. He's got to up his game.
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Amazing that we are sitting 9th, on 35 points with no midfield.
I include Jedinak in that, He has a few qualities, and is someone you maybe want when you are under the cosh and need to head or hack the ball away any which way you can.
But when you need to set the tempo and control a game at home, forget it.
Lucky tonight. Season starts now.
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Could have won it in the end. We battled well. I don't think Leeds were the better team, Rob green kept them in it.
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I don't want to see Ayew again, he is a luxury player we can't afford and I hope we sell him. Other players were below par tonight too including Jedinak and Amarvi who had a shocker I thought. Bruce needed to change things earlier than he did, but made the right calls I thought.
Special mention to Jansson, who is the most annoying opposition player I can remember for a good long while. Took Grealish out and the ref didn't even give a free kick - that happens in the premier league and it's at least a booking.
The sort of player we could use.
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Happy with that as after they scored we looked like we were going to completely capitulate. Looking forward to seeing penalty as couldn't look .
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Gestede gave us something at the end but we were outplayed for most of the second half, still not seeing any cohesion between the midfield and forwards. Jedinak should have been off earlier he was knackered and Adomah earlier. I don't know about Gestede he really became a focal point and Leeds defence were under a lot of pressure when the ball was put in the box. The result keeps our home record and gives Bruce a chance to strengthen, if we had lost then the impetus would have been lost.
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This was a good barometer of where we are. We've struggled twice against a bog standard, workmanlike, playoff places team and failed to beat them at home. Ergo we're not good enough for the playoffs with this squad.
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Big plus is that we're approaching the window in touching distance of the top 6 despite not being able to score goals, giving everyone an 11 game head start, having no real midfield, and rather erratic full backs.
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we only played with 10 men westwood and hutton are half each
Worse than amavi and Jedinak today?
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Well with a manager that has promoted clubs willy nilly, and so far hasn't chosen any of these shit players I guess I have to be content with that, but the clock is now ticking. He has 4 weeks to sort us out or I want Gary Monk in!
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Not playing well and picking up points and showing resilience we weren’t earlier in the season ... will only take marginal gains now to kick start us playing the football that we want.
Bruce has done wonders to be fair in the time with us on so many levels ... its now time to kick on and use this window to shape and mould the team into a promotion winning one ... plenty of time yet albeit the most likely route through the playoffs.
We need full backs / wingers and a midfield to finish the jigsaw and get our attacking players into the game more often.
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You know you're crap when Westwood is your best player.
Ayew is atrocious. Head down, runs into players, slows everything down.
Amavi can't defend.
Overall we were very lucky again. Luckily for us you need to play very, very badly to lose in this league. We haven't played well for weeks but are on a decent run which says more about the standard of opponents.
We were slow, predictable, boring and play with no tempo at all. We looked better when Adomah and Gestede came on, which begs the question; are they good subs from Bruce or is he picking the wrong starting 11?
Hate to say it but Leeds look well ahead of us and can count themselves very unlucky.
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Jedinak and Ayew were poor, Amavi was awful at times defensively. Westwood did well overall.
You're not allowed to say that about Westwood apparently
I dont know about "well" but he was definitely better than Jedinak, Ayew, Amavi, Hutton and (sad to say) Grealish who really was poor even before he was clobbered.
We are REALLY going to miss Kodjia.
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If you believe the papers we could get around 30 million for Amavi and Gestede. Ayew must be at least 10 on market rates. 40 odd mill for players who have done the square root of sod all in two different divisions for us is crazy. Cash in on them. Re-invest into buying some solid players. Bruce needs a talisman, like he had with Huddles-Tonne.
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A draw, as expected, but forget promotion this season.
You do know we are only 5pts off playoffs and have just drawn against the form team in the league in a game we could have so easily won with two v good late chances (I know we could have also lost) I fail to see how you can write off promotion with a multi millionaire owner, a manager that has done it four times before and half the season left to go
I can by watching performances like that week in week out. We need to be winning, and scoring, more than we do. I'll be delighted to be proved wrong, however.
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Our biggest problem is that our defence, midfield and attack appear to act as completely separate unrelated units. There is no common cohesion.
Maybe they just work on fitness and set pieces all week.
Nothing else looks like it gets much attention. We rely on individual brilliance for the majority of our goals. Fine if Kodjia bangs in that first one first half, or a similar effort in the second half. Take that out of the equation and we offer little else.
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This was a good barometer of where we are. We've struggled twice against a bog standard, workmanlike, playoff places team and failed to beat them at home. Ergo we're not good enough for the playoffs with this squad.
100% agree
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Don't agree Leeds were poor. Only saw second half but they broke with purpose and incisiveness, though helped by really weak Amavi defending... so all in all glad to see the fortress intact. Bert was good when he came on.
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Ayew has looked pretty turgid everytime he has started a game in this league, he only looks decent as a 20 minute impact sub.
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Poor once again.
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Good start, looked beaten after their goal, effective subs, deserved point.
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We did have a few chances in retrospect but so did they. They hit the woodwork twice I think. The worry for me was that Leeds looked a decent team, they passed it better than we did, looked more incisive. We didn't really show any cohesion and when looked at over the last five or so games, it's an uncomfortable trend.
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Shame we didnt get Gerrard as player coach
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Thought we were slightly the better team in the first half but nothing much to write home about. Second half very poor though. We got out of jail really.
Open that chequebook in January please.
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I don't want to see Ayew again, he is a luxury player we can't afford and I hope we sell him. Other players were below par tonight too including Jedinak and Amarvi who had a shocker I thought. Bruce needed to change things earlier than he did, but made the right calls I thought.
Special mention to Jansson, who is the most annoying opposition player I can remember for a good long while. Took Grealish out and the ref didn't even give a free kick - that happens in the premier league and it's at least a booking.
The sort of player we could use.
Not to mention he denied us the early goal when their other DC screwed up and scored their goal. Best thing out of Sweden since Mellberg and emulate his fighting. Not wanted in Torino so gifted to Leeds who love him.
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You know you're crap when Westwood is your best player.
Ayew is atrocious. Head down, runs into players, slows everything down.
Amavi can't defend.
Overall we were very lucky again. Luckily for us you need to play very, very badly to lose in this league. We haven't played well for weeks but are on a decent run which says more about the standard of opponents.
We were slow, predictable, boring and play with no tempo at all. We looked better when Adomah and Gestede came on, which begs the question; are they good subs from Bruce or is he picking the wrong starting 11?
Hate to say it but Leeds look well ahead of us and can count themselves very unlucky.
Westwood was decent tonight. Why not give him some credit
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Just like me Bruce didn't watch the penalty he listened for the crowd response.
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No way did we deserve to get a point from that, Leeds torn us apart at times 2nd half. Only a daft penalty given away by the defender saved us. Having said that we could have won it at the end.
Offer for Amavi has been reduced from £25m to £2.5m
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That last 15 minutes was outstanding end to end football.
Amavi had a real poor game, £25m? call them back. If Hutton has to play he needs to be banned from going forward, absolute shite.
Ayew.. apart from a couple of very good blocks he's too inconsistent going forward. Baker has improved overall but his long balls are shocking!
We looked so much more threatening with McCormack, Adomah and Gestede on. It would be a mistake getting rid of Rudy, he's a good choice in this league as a sub.
We were definitely a bit fortunate but in the end, they were hanging on as well.
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This was a good barometer of where we are. We've struggled twice against a bog standard, workmanlike, playoff places team and failed to beat them at home. Ergo we're not good enough for the playoffs with this squad.
100% agree
But they've won 8 of last 10 coming into tonight and the inform team. Bruce has had a good period of time to assess the squad and will know how to strengthen and I'm optimistic about second half of the season
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Shame we didnt get Gerrard as player coach
We have enough slow midfielders.
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No way did we deserve to get a point from that, Leeds torn us apart at times 2nd half. Only a daft penalty given away by the defender saved us. Having said that we could have won it at the end.
Offer for Amavi has been reduced from £25m to £2.5m
V harsh to say we didn't deserve a point. We were well on top against a form side until they scored. When they did they seemed to find bit more confidence and attacked us more, the woodwork saved us twice but I honestly think we deserved a point. Both teams seemed wide open at the end and both sides could have won.
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We are trying to win games in the last ten minutes, rather than trying not to lose them. We can get better. We have half the season still to play, and we're in touch with the play-off places at the start of the transfer window.
Excuse me if I don't haul down our colours and surrender just yet.
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Don Goodman doesn't like Aston Villa very much does he.
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Once Gestede was on the game plan was simple get the ball into the box, Adoma did exactly that and it put them under pressure. We have players who want to hold on to the ball too much, this is the Championship.
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Don Goodman doesn't like Aston Villa very much does he.
I thought he was very fair from what he said on TV. We've said worse about Villa tonight on here! :)
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We are trying to win games in the last ten minutes, rather than trying not to lose them. We can get better. We have half the season still to play, and we're in touch with the play-off places at the start of the transfer window.
Excuse me if I don't haul down our colours and surrender just yet.
100% agree. It's like getting half way round Aintree in 8th!
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Adomah should have started. Very disjointed second half but then we all know why, that midfield is maddening. But you know what, Westwood did ok. He's never going to drive the game on which is the problem, but he kept the ball and did well defnisvley.
Kodjia could have had 5. Can't believe the referee didn't see the hand ball.
Leeds were shite first half, better second but unless Amavi is slipping them through they create fuck all from.open play. Soft goal.
Deserved a point, but go forth Bruce and buy some midfielders.
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Reminded me of the Wolves game earlier in the season. They were pacy on the break second half, ripped us open several times but couldn't kill us off by finding the right final ball. They look a much better unit than us and a lot more balanced.
We haven't played well since a 30 minute spell away at Brighton, and we didn't even win that game. Our style of play is slow and boring, you can tell the crowd are bored after 15 minutes. There's no tempo, no pressing and we create very little.
We need to spend in January to get near the play offs, otherwise our luck will run out and these draws and narrow wins will turn into defeats.
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BBC show either biase, or basic bad journalism as even before the game had finished, and after it had finished still had
'Relive Leeds' win at Aston Villa as it happened' and is still there, at 22:10
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38400138
Though I would have taken a draw at the start.
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Don Goodman doesn't like Aston Villa very much does he.
I thought he was very good, one of the best studio experts I've seen for a while.
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What a signing James Chester was.
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Decent battling performance from one down. Adomah made the difference when he came on.
Could've lost, could've won. You can't complain about value for money either way. Superb game.
Oh and, whisper it, I thought Westwood had a decent game.
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Reminded me of the Wolves game earlier in the season. They were pacy on the break second half, ripped us open several times but couldn't kill us off by finding the right final ball. They look a much better unit than us and a lot more balanced.
We haven't played well since a 30 minute spell away at Brighton, and we didn't even win that game. Our style of play is slow and boring, you can tell the crowd are bored after 15 minutes. There's no tempo, no pressing and we create very little.
We need to spend in January to get near the play offs, otherwise our luck will run out and these draws and narrow wins will turn into defeats.
I was about to say....I also thought of the Wolves game in that we were probably a bit fortunate to get a point but also could've nicked it at the end, Leeds didn't put us under as much pressure as Wolves do but they are resillent at the back for the first time in about 5 years (Pontus Jansson was a great pick up for them).
I'm not too concerned....we can't win every game for the rest of the season and today were our first dropped points at home since October so there are plenty of positives if you chose to look at them.
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Don Goodman doesn't like Aston Villa very much does he.c
I thought he was very good, one of the best studio experts I've seen for a while.
Agree a very good pundit.
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Leeds looked good second half...mainly because they had a mobile midfield that could play a bit. Until we get a midfield, if he plays any other way than two wide men and Gestede up top with one off him, then he needs shooting imo. Adomah and Gestede (and Ross to a lesser extent)changed the game, that's when we looked threatening and space started opening up.
Personally I like Ayew, but where do you play him? He's not a wide player. I'd play him up top in a 442 with Kodija and two wide men. But to do that you need a better midfielder than Westwood or Gardner.
Big transfer window for us this is. The squad is totally unbalanced and hopefully Bruce will rectify that.
Got out of jail I think tonight...could have nicked it, but could have been 2 or 3 down before the pen.
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What a signing James Chester was.
My man of the match.
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Don Goodman doesn't like Aston Villa very much does he.
Yeah I thought that as well. Never a good word to say about us, and I suppose that's because of his links with lesser clubs in this area.
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What a signing James Chester was.
My man of the match.
Agreed. And we should appeal that yellow card as well. It was a bloody good tackle.
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What a signing James Chester was.
My man of the match.
Agreed. And we should appeal that yellow card as well. It was a bloody good tackle.
Totally. Silly decision. Not sure what got into the refs head there.
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What a signing James Chester was.
My man of the match.
Agreed. And we should appeal that yellow card as well. It was a bloody good tackle.
A real "Ken McNaught-er"
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Waiting in mega traffic on Bev Road. Really pleased we kept out unbeaten home run going. Can't win them all so a point is good.
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Well done to Mr.Bruce for improving us thus far. We are unremarkable but tenacious and hard to beat. I like the way his post match comments nearly always make sense, reflecting the game I have witnessed. His next test is whether his efforts in the transfer window match the rectifications discerning Villa fans realise are necessary. I have no reason to doubt him.
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We are going to miss Kodjia massively. Even if he's having a bad game he still looks like making something happen and will create a chance for himself. The ones behind him, Ayew and Grealish are massively overrated. They don't influence the game and create nothing.
We desperately need a proper creative midfielder.
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What a signing James Chester was.
My man of the match.
Agreed. And we should appeal that yellow card as well. It was a bloody good tackle.
A real "Ken McNaught-er"
In the old days that would have been lauded as a great tackle, but not any more. Sort of makes sense in the EPL, but a little peculiar in this division where the officials let a lot go by.
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We've won games we probably didn't deserve to recently but I think we deserved something out of that tonight. We're showing resilience which is good. Like PWS, I'm also happy going into the new year within touching distance of the play offs after the start we made. It's all to play for.
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This was a good barometer of where we are. We've struggled twice against a bog standard, workmanlike, playoff places team and failed to beat them at home. Ergo we're not good enough for the playoffs with this squad.
100% agree
But they've won 8 of last 10 coming into tonight and the inform team. Bruce has had a good period of time to assess the squad and will know how to strengthen and I'm optimistic about second half of the season
And we went to the league leaders and were the better side.
Think a draw was fair tonight and once Bruce gets a chance to fix the midfield we'll be fine. Jedinak hasn't got the legs for 2 games in a week.
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Jedinak is doubledged sword. On the one hand he sometimes is the enforces that shored up the back 4 when he doesn't cross the midline playing just ahead of Baker and Chester. On the other hand if playing regular MC, then he becomes a Rudiesq, swaying drifting tower that again and again gets bypassed and left for dead up the pitch. (Wonder who is slowest..Rudy, Jedi or Elphick).
Never thought I say it but today Westwood bailed him out a number of times defensively. He is still useless creatively but he ran like his career depended on it today. In the current on the other side of a bewildered Jedinak-slowrolling stone however ... Amavi read that he was worth 25M and didn't have to be bothered playing a defender today.
Bacuna and Ross did well. Alright, Westwood too...he still can't kick ball but his desire today you cant fault.
Jedinak, Ayew, Grealish and Amavi bad. Hutton and Bunn screwed up at their goal. However I noticed that Baker usually marked Jansson at sets.
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I wonder when we last went into the New Year unbeaten at home?
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Please buy a Keeper, right back, snap their hands off for £25m or anything even close to that for Amavi, two midfielders and a central striker. If anyone offers daftish money for Jordan 4 touches Ayew then take that as well.
Stole a point there, terrible second half. Bruce's luck holds firm.
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Baker lost his man for the goal. Hutton was trying to cover. Gollini would be getting pelters if he'd have let that one in.
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Those last 10-15 minutes were horrible. Exciting but horrible. Not used to seeing that kind of attacking play at VP.
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Deserved point.
If you'd told me back in March we'd end 2016 unbeaten at home in the new season I'd have thought you utterly bonkers.
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My local didn't show the game so had to make do with 5Live. Does anybody have links to the highlights?
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Looked like we were going to shit the bed after they scored so a point is a good result. Crazy game after our equaliser, both missing gilt edged chances. I would always play Adomah over Ayew.
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What a signing James Chester was.
My man of the match.
Agreed. And we should appeal that yellow card as well. It was a bloody good tackle.
Under the new rule I think you can only appeal, if the offence was for simulation.
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First 10 mins we were good, last 15 we looked decentish.
Amavi had a mare, but to be fair to him, he had their best player and full-back attacking him.
Adomah has to start all matches.
Jedniak is now officially the worst midfielder at the club. Which is impressive considering we have Westwood and Gardner.
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My local didn't show the game so had to make do with 5Live. Does anybody have links to the highlights?
Best I can do Pat (http://www.skysports.com/football/a-villa-vs-leeds/358386)
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Steve Bruce has done a fantastic job so far. He took over a team of individuals with low confidence and even less resilience. He has got them playing as a team and got results. Some may complain that it isn't pretty but I don't care, we needed points and he has delivered. We have moved up the table and are within touching distance of the play off positions and now he has now got a transfer window to sort out our shortcomings.
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First 10 mins we were good, last 15 we looked decentish.
Amavi had a mare, but to be fair to him, he had their best player and full-back attacking him.
Adomah has to start all matches.
Jedniak is now officially the worst midfielder at the club. Which is impressive considering we have Westwood and Gardner.
Nonsense.
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Enjoyed that, end to end for large patches and could have gone either way.
Wont miss Ayew if he gets sold, or Amavi who clearly is not worth £25m.
Think I'd like to see McCormack behind Kodjia or Gestede for the rest or the season, with Adomah and Grealish on the wing and two new midfielders. The defence is OK apart from Amavi.
Need a better Keeper though.
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Westwood was probably our best tonight, should be getting a lot more credit on here
Fair play to the players, dug out a point against a superior team and had chances to win at the end, could Kodija have squared that chance to McCormack for a tap in?
Leeds looked vastly superior on their second half display tonight than they did at Elland Road. Isolated Amavi all second half with clever passing, Green was outstanding, very solid at the back and used the ball well in midfield. They really looked a well drilled outfit, we looked a collection of individuals, plenty of spirit particularly after the subs came in but devoid of any structure in the team. I'd be wary of giving Bruce too much money in Jan... let him wheel and deal instead. Players still don't appear to know their roles on the pitch which Bruce should have sorted by now.
Some of our lot were diabolical tonight, Jedinak, a traffic cone in midfield, Hutton a ball retention disaster zone, Amavi zero defensive instincts, Baker hoofing it away, Grealish and Ayew, invisible. Gestede showed plenty of fight when he came in but he ain't the answer either. McCormack was very bright initially when he came on, seemed to disappear though late on. A point in the circumstances not a bad result. Very entertaining last 30 mins too
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He does make good substitutions. I just wish he would do them sooner.
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I'm pleased Adomah missed out on the AFCON rather than Ayew! We urgently need two central midfielders. That will make a huge difference. We also need a consistent goalkeeper.
A fair result despite Leeds being more incisive with the ball. Kodjia could have won it but for a great save from Green.
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We have now played a game more than everyone else.
More than likely 8 points off a playoff place once everyone has played this weekend.
At the start of the season would we have been happy to be 8 points off the playoff places after Christmas?
I think most would have hoped we would be closer.
Still, let's hope we are buying a midfield in January.
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This was a good barometer of where we are. We've struggled twice against a bog standard, workmanlike, playoff places team and failed to beat them at home. Ergo we're not good enough for the playoffs with this squad.
100% agree
But they've won 8 of last 10 coming into tonight and the inform team. Bruce has had a good period of time to assess the squad and will know how to strengthen and I'm optimistic about second half of the season
How does this work? From the 8 teams above us we have lost to Two of them. Drawn 5 and won 2 of them. A few correct additions in Jan, continue or points ratio since Bruce came in then we WILL make the playoffs
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Jedinak is doubledged sword. On the one hand he sometimes is the enforces that shored up the back 4 when he doesn't cross the midline playing just ahead of Baker and Chester. On the other hand if playing regular MC, then he becomes a Rudiesq, swaying drifting tower that again and again gets bypassed and left for dead up the pitch. (Wonder who is slowest..Rudy, Jedi or Elphick).
Never thought I say it but today Westwood bailed him out a number of times defensively. He is still useless creatively but he ran like his career depended on it today. In the current on the other side of a bewildered Jedinak-slowrolling stone however ... Amavi read that he was worth 25M and didn't have to be bothered playing a defender today.
Bacuna and Ross did well. Alright, Westwood too...he still can't kick ball but his desire today you cant fault.
Jedinak, Ayew, Grealish and Amavi bad. Hutton and Bunn screwed up at their goal. However I noticed that Baker usually marked Jansson at sets.
Baker lost his man and Hutton only just failed to get to Jansen before he headed the goal. Very harsh to blame Hutton in any shape or form for this.
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A drawn game is a fair reflection.
Leeds should have won/Rob Green had a blinder.
Sell Amavi and Ayew.
Play Cissokho, get Sanchez and Gil back.
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At half time you'd have been disappointed with a point, at full time you'd have been relieved. I thought Leeds were there for the taking in the first half but they really went for it after the break and looked as good as any team we've played at Villa Park this season. How the hell the referee didn't immediately spot the penalty, it was one of the most blatant handballs I've ever seen.
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What does Grealish do? Genuine question. What position is he meant to be playing? He creates barely anything and has very little impact on most games. Hugely overrated because he's a Villa fan.
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I wonder when we last went into the New Year unbeaten at home?
We managed it in 73/74, although there were quite a few draws.
11v11 (http://www.11v11.com/teams/aston-villa/tab/matches/season/1974/)
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A drawn game is a fair reflection.
Leeds should have won/Rob Green had a blinder.
Sell Amavi and Ayew.
Play Cissokho, get Sanchez and Gil back.
Or don't, because they're shit or one paced or no better than what we already have.
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A drawn game is a fair reflection.
Leeds should have won/Rob Green had a blinder.
Sell Amavi and Ayew.
Play Cissokho, get Sanchez and Gil back.
Sell Amavi for a lot of money, yes, but not sell him for being crap, because he's not. One bad game doesn't make you crap.
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I wonder when we last went into the New Year unbeaten at home?
We managed it in 73/74, although there were quite a few draws.
11v11 (http://www.11v11.com/teams/aston-villa/tab/matches/season/1974/)
And without checking, in 1990-91.
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Jedinak is doubledged sword. On the one hand he sometimes is the enforces that shored up the back 4 when he doesn't cross the midline playing just ahead of Baker and Chester. On the other hand if playing regular MC, then he becomes a Rudiesq, swaying drifting tower that again and again gets bypassed and left for dead up the pitch. (Wonder who is slowest..Rudy, Jedi or Elphick).
Never thought I say it but today Westwood bailed him out a number of times defensively. He is still useless creatively but he ran like his career depended on it today. In the current on the other side of a bewildered Jedinak-slowrolling stone however ... Amavi read that he was worth 25M and didn't have to be bothered playing a defender today.
Bacuna and Ross did well. Alright, Westwood too...he still can't kick ball but his desire today you cant fault.
Jedinak, Ayew, Grealish and Amavi bad. Hutton and Bunn screwed up at their goal. However I noticed that Baker usually marked Jansson at sets.
Baker lost his man and Hutton only just failed to get to Jansen before he headed the goal. Very harsh to blame Hutton in any shape or form for this.
I stand corrected, I just saw Hutton on the wrong side of him trying to catch up but also confused about why Hutton would mark any of their DCs.
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Looked like we were going to shit the bed after they scored so a point is a good result. Crazy game after our equaliser, both missing gilt edged chances. I would always play Adomah over Ayew.
We will have no choice on Monday.
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What does Grealish do? Genuine question. What position is he meant to be playing? He creates barely anything and has very little impact on most games. Hugely overrated because he's a Villa fan.
He's about the only player with genuine attacking class at the club.
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A drawn game is a fair reflection.
Leeds should have won/Rob Green had a blinder.
Sell Amavi and Ayew.
Play Cissokho, get Sanchez and Gil back.
Sell Amavi for a lot of money, yes, but not sell him for being crap, because he's not. One bad game doesn't make you crap.
is it only me who thought Amavi was quite good most of the match against, comfortably, their best player. Having said that, his brain farts for the last 10mins were pretty atrocious!
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Some bad news, Ghana have given Ayew permission to play against Cardiff.
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Some bad news, Ghana have given Ayew permission to play against Cardiff.
If China wang Ayew is let him go in a heartbeat. Only seems to perform as an impact sub. Can't carry players like that
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I wonder when we last went into the New Year unbeaten at home?
We managed it in 73/74, although there were quite a few draws.
11v11 (http://www.11v11.com/teams/aston-villa/tab/matches/season/1974/)
Nice one. I figured it was a while ago as I couldn't remember us doing it in my time.
Our last home game that season was Forest. They finished 7th and we were 14th, I wonder what odds you'd have got that over the next 8 years between us there'd be 2 titles, 3 European Cups, 4 League Cups and 2 Super Cups.
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How awful was Leed's goal. Free header and the keeper muffs it, absolutely atrocious defending for a corner. Glad to come away with a point and well done Villa for pulling it back so late in the game, shows good spirit and determination. Hutton needs crossing practice, Ayew needs a transfer, Jedinak is just a beard on stilts.
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I wonder when we last went into the New Year unbeaten at home?
We managed it in 73/74, although there were quite a few draws.
11v11 (http://www.11v11.com/teams/aston-villa/tab/matches/season/1974/)
And without checking, in 1990-91.
Correct! Forgot about that although it was 'only' 8 games before the New Year. Bizarrely, both times mentioned it was Luton that won at VP to break the run.
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could Kodija have squared that chance to McCormack for a tap in?
Yes, he should have, he's an all or nothing player though, quality and infuriating at the same time, did exactly the same at home to Wolves aswell.
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Can I keep doing match threads because we didn't lose?
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we only played with 10 men westwood and hutton are half each
This may be your general opinion, but has no context to this game as they both did ok. What's the point of commenting on a match thread if all your going to do is trot out the same old pre-conceived opinions that bear no resemblance to what happened on the field.
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Hutton did ok, apart from the crossing. Jeeze it was bad tonight. Very frustrating as he makes some excellent runs and gets into great positions and then puts in awful crosses.
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Entertaining game on a cold night. Started off well, finished well, but rode our luck in between with them hitting the bar twice. Barely deserved the point but yet again we scored late in the game rather than conceding, and we remain undefeated at home. I could get used to this.
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Hutton was OK as usual solid apart from wasteful in good attacking positions. Westwood was alright too although I can't stand seeing Westwood in the team.
Our defence has been pretty good since Bruce arrived, and with a more solid keeper I think it would be as good as any defence in this league.
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I like Kodjia but the guy needs to learn to pass if there's a man free in space. That's two certain goals (possible game changers) missed because he wanted the glory instead of doing what's best for the team. McCormack must be fuming..
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I had a feeling our run at Villa Park would end tonight but we fought hard and got a point against an in form team.
I thought we dropped off when Grealish went off. It was interesting watching him in the hole I didn't think he did enough to keep the shirt.
Sako gave Amavi a tough game at Elland Road and he did the same tonight. he was powerful and tricky Amavi was up against it he doesn't have much cover with Ayew in front of him.
I thought he played better tonight than he did at Elland Road however he did make a crucial mistake which led to them hitting the bar. I'm not writing him off tho none of them are the finished article.
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I like Kodjia but the guy needs to learn to pass if there's a man free in space. That's two certain goals (possible game changers) missed because he wanted the glory instead of doing what's best for the team. McCormack must be fuming..
He won't pass with 4/5 players on him, so Ross shouldn't take it personally.
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It was interesting watching him in the hole I didn't think he did enough to keep the shirt.
(https://media.balls.ie/uploads/2014/01/york.gif)
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Hutton was OK as usual solid apart from wasteful in good attacking positions. Westwood was alright too although I can't stand seeing Westwood in the team.
Our defence has been pretty good since Bruce arrived, and with a more solid keeper I think it would be as good as any defence in this league.
There was a moment when Westwood was given the ball in space, had a bad touch, tried to pass it, the did his jumpy tackle/pull out a tackle all is one swift movement
He offers nothing. Tish must be horrendous to not get a kick above Westwood or Gardner
The best thing Westwood did all night was track back after a shit cross
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Considering what a shambles of a club we were when Southampton came here and put 4 past us in April, I'd have been very surprised if someone would have told me after that game that we wouldn't lose at home again in 2016.
Still a long way to go but steady improvements are being made
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Can I keep doing match threads because we didn't lose?
OK one more match to save your job.
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Hutton was OK as usual solid apart from wasteful in good attacking positions. Westwood was alright too although I can't stand seeing Westwood in the team.
Our defence has been pretty good since Bruce arrived, and with a more solid keeper I think it would be as good as any defence in this league.
There was a moment when Westwood was given the ball in space, had a bad touch, tried to pass it, the did his jumpy tackle/pull out a tackle all is one swift movement
He offers nothing. Tish must be horrendous to not get a kick above Westwood or Gardner
The best thing Westwood did all night was track back after a shit cross
I appreciate it's just me, but no matter how well Westwood and Bacuna play, I struggle to see it and I really struggle to give them praise. They are the absolute depiction of average for me. Lovely goal from Bacuna against the pubmen but that's about it. They offer so very little, same as Gardner, that replacements surely can't be too tough to locate?
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Pleased with a point, we desperately need a midfield did we win any second balls? Only an hour back to Wilmslow and in the front door for 11pm.
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could Kodija have squared that chance to McCormack for a tap in?
Yes, he should have, he's an all or nothing player though, quality and infuriating at the same time, did exactly the same at home to Wolves aswell.
Which one? The one at the end he had about 3 Leeds players around him so I don't think you can describe it as a tap in for McCormack.
The other was actually a good shot but Green did very well to stand up straight and block it...he dives early and the ball goes over him. Given Kodjia had just scored he wasn't doing anything but shooting in that situation.
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Definitely a point gained. They did a proper job on us and we were extremely lucky to come away with a point. I said before the game it would be won and lost in midfield, and whilst we didn't lose, our shortcomings were plain to see. Bruce needs at least two proven midfielders and a striker as a matter of urgency, otherwise we can forget the play offs.
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Some bad news, Ghana have given Ayew permission to play against Cardiff.
Have they called up Adomah?
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No. Albert will stay in Aston where he feels more at home.
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We don't have enough consistent performers. Apart from Chester, Baker and usually Amarvi the rest are in and out and not cementing their places.
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I'll say it again like after the Boxing Day game, we've got no leader in the team. We go a goal down and just look really sorry for ourselves. At times someone needs to be pointing fingers and generally rallying the team. Please no Westwood pointing jokes.
I think Steve will be pretty chuffed where we are with the players he's inherited as I think a few certainly won't be starters come the window closing January 31st.
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I have no problem with Kodjia's "I am going to score" mentality every time he gets the ball. He only ever thinks of one thing, thats fine by me in a striker with his power.
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Loved the first 4 minutes. Best we've played all season. After that, Leeds contained us until half time.
Second half, there was only one team in it. We did well to regroup when Rudy came on but like the rest of the game we were only ever going to score from a set piece. We're still completely pointless from open play.
Couple of other points:
We are a small midfield/attack, so why expect the long ball to work. Yes, Leeds can play it on the floor but hopefully so can we.
Our best chances came from mistakes from Leeds defenders. Why did we suddenly stop pressing them.
Finally, I hope tonight was the last time we see both Grealish and Awew start. It doesn't work, Steve. Stop it!
MOTM: Chester. Majestic.
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I have no problem with Kodjia's "I am going to score" mentality every time he gets the ball. He only ever thinks of one thing, thats fine by me in a striker with his power.
And the reason why we have 1 point instead of 3.
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Loved the first 4 minutes. Best we've played all season. After that, Leeds contained us until half time.
Second half, there was only one team in it. We did well to regroup when Rudy came on but like the rest of the game we were only ever going to score from a set piece. We're still completely pointless from open play.
Couple of other points:
We are a small midfield/attack, so why expect the long ball to work. Yes, Leeds can play it on the floor but hopefully so can we.
Our best chances came from mistakes from Leeds defenders. Why did we suddenly stop pressing them.
Finally, I hope tonight was the last time we see both Grealish and Awew start. It doesn't work, Steve. Stop it!
MOTM: Chester. Majestic.
I don't agree. Leeds scored with their first on target due to a combination of errors and it shook us a bit so I am not sure how you can say that? May be your seat was in different position from mine!
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Not been up the Villa for a couple of years, found other things to do on a Saturday that aren't as painful. Went tonight, took the lad and enjoyed it, a fabulous crowd considering it was freezing and on tv only three days after a sell out. I got the feel that the Villa still clearly has a long way to go to get to former glories but the feeling of decline has been replaced with a feeling of hope. I think in the main the fans seem clear in the knowledge it's a long road too and despite being a goal down stayed with the team instead of the atmosphere turning poisonous on my last visit two years ago.
As for the players, harsh to judge them on one game admittedly but my thoughts.
Bunn - Didn't really have much to do but from where I was in the ground I thought he could have done better with the goal.
Hutton - This is his level I feel and looked decent until he got to the last third and failed to deliver enough quality from the flank. In the main defensively ok
Chester - I met him actually a couple of years ago when he was at Smethwick, a nice chap who told me as a kid he was a Man Utd fan - I'd imagine him blossoming under Bruce. I think he'll get better with a better/more dominant keeper behind him
Baker - Looked composed and in the main did what a big strapping central defender should do.
Amavi - Really like him on the ball, looks composed, picks a pass well and glides across the pitch. However, when going backwards he looks like he's had 10 cans of stella, poor decision making and judgement. Can't he play further forward?
Bacuna - Did pretty well I thought, a couple of times he gave the ball away when trying to make the simple pass, worked hard and kept the ball ticking over well.
Westwood - Great tracking run and clearance in the second half, mostly retained the ball but at times struggles, I sensed that once Jedinak's legs went and the options to have the ball off him started to go, he started to struggle.
Jedinak - Won most headers, was big and strong. He reminded me of a bigger kid in a school football match who dominates everything, then when he's played for 10 minutes and is up against someone quicker/fitter he is looks gangly, awkward, uncoordinated and poor
Ayew - I really like his ability, good feet but didsn't do enough for me, is that due to the fact we couldn't get the ball to him, or get support to him enough.
Grealish - Looked dangerous, was expecting to see him wide but playing in the middle allowed the Leeds defensive midfielders to physically dominate him and they did.
Kodija - Looks a right handful, and perhaps if he had a little more support would have been more of a threat. Held the ball at times a little too long but he rarely had choice of where to pass the ball.
McCormack - Came on and livened us up. Doesn't really look like he has a position though? Is he a striker, winger, attacking midfielder?
Gestede - Caused panic - he needs crosses to score from what I've seen so we need better quality wide if he's ever going to be successful, perhaps that's why he might be off to Boro.
Adomah - Did well, was positive in trying to drive us forward.
I thought both sides could lay claim to winning the game, Green made two match winning saves for them and the bar saved us twice. Shame we didn't score in the first 10 minutes when we didn't let them out of their half.
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Yes, SB has clearly decided that if we press high up the pitch for too long, we will be hit on the break. So we we only do it in spells. That is why he doesn't like 4-3-3 either.
As expected, our defensive resilience has come at a price.
We have far better attacking players than most of this division, but so do Norwich.
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My local didn't show the game so had to make do with 5Live. Does anybody have links to the highlights?
Best I can do Pat (http://www.skysports.com/football/a-villa-vs-leeds/358386)
Cheers Dave.
Watching that chance at the death McCormack's movement is excellent. If Kodjia had squared the ball it would almost certainly have been a goal ( though I can see why he shot having just scored). The chance Kodjia missed early on was far worse as he should have shielded the ball from the defender who came from his left side.
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Loved the first 4 minutes. Best we've played all season. After that, Leeds contained us until half time.
Second half, there was only one team in it. We did well to regroup when Rudy came on but like the rest of the game we were only ever going to score from a set piece. We're still completely pointless from open play.
Couple of other points:
We are a small midfield/attack, so why expect the long ball to work. Yes, Leeds can play it on the floor but hopefully so can we.
Our best chances came from mistakes from Leeds defenders. Why did we suddenly stop pressing them.
Finally, I hope tonight was the last time we see both Grealish and Awew start. It doesn't work, Steve. Stop it!
MOTM: Chester. Majestic.
I don't agree. Leeds scored with their first on target due to a combination of errors and it shook us a bit so I am not sure how you can say that? May be your seat was in different position from mine!
It may have been but my eyes were open. They moved the ball around in a way that right now we can only dream of. There was a purpose to their play; with us it's like every Villa team over the last 5-10 years. Leeds are no where the finished article but for a squad bought on a shoestring, they're looking serious promotion candidates - even possible Top 2 if they can buy a few this January. They're strong, both physically (against our midgets) and have a plan that worked again with patience.
I'm more than happy stealing a point tonight.
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I have no problem with Kodjia's "I am going to score" mentality every time he gets the ball. He only ever thinks of one thing, thats fine by me in a striker with his power.
And the reason why we have 1 point instead of 3.
Possibly. However if we are arguing that then its equally true we would have had 1 point instead of 3 at QPR if he was a less goal focused player.
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We didn't steal it we deserved it and with a bit of luck would have won it. Leeds are OK and have been on a great run but should have gone back with nothing.
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We didn't steal it we deserved it and with a bit of luck would have won it. Leeds are OK and have been on a great run but should have gone back with nothing.
I think we had more than our fair share of luck Aftab, with them hitting the bar when it was easier to score....twice.
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My take was that we were better in the first half and could have been a couple up in the first 15 minutes or so, but they were the better side in the second half.
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I don't want to see Ayew again, he is a luxury player we can't afford and I hope we sell him. Other players were below par tonight too including Jedinak and Amarvi who had a shocker I thought. Bruce needed to change things earlier than he did, but made the right calls I thought.
Special mention to Jansson, who is the most annoying opposition player I can remember for a good long while. Took Grealish out and the ref didn't even give a free kick - that happens in the premier league and it's at least a booking.
...the irony being that Roger East is a Premier League referee.
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Given that Villa have no brains in midfield (where is Tshibola?), they need strength so Adomah should start otherwise there is no link to the strikers and too much long ball results. The other main problem is the lack of a decent goalkeeper. This needs to be addressed in January.
But despite the pressure the team kept fighting and won a point that they wouldn't have won in the last few seasons.
Nice to see a referee who acts on a linesman's flag other than for offsides.
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Rob Green made several brilliant saves, kept them in it.
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Our midfield looks so limited for options, especially once Grealish went off. Jedinak looked poor at time, winning a few headers but his distribution is dreadful, and Westwood is, well Westwood.
This has to be the focus in the transfer window for me. We put pressure on ourselves as we allow teams to push their way through, and we don't have the drive to create overlapping runs with our front line.
And I thought McCormack looked well off the pace tonight, at times seemingly unsure of his position. I know there's a good player there somewhere, but we've only seen it in very brief flashes so far.
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Draw was a fair result as both teams could, and should, have won it at the end. We were very disjointed though 2nd half, we absolutely must get a midfielder with brains to calm us own and be that link between the midfield and our forward line, I wonder how Gill would've gone in this division? He looked a class above when we played lower leagues in cup games.
If we need to sell to buy I'd be cashing in on Gestede, Ayew and Amavi if we could get in £45 million and re-invest. Saying that Rudy and Adomah saved us a point tonight so kudos to them and Bruce, his subs got us that point.
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Draw was def the correct result IMHO, Leeds are the most compact & organised side I've seen us play this season so not a disgrace. We were better first half they were second, good to get that equaliser.
Jedinak looked tired 2nd half, we really have to get him some quality assistance in the centre of the pitch else he will be burnt out in no time. Actually thought Westwood did ok tonight with pressing the opposition but we do need a significant upgrade on him to get a solid base in there.
Hutton yet again got forward well without actually doing anything once he got there...as for Amavi that's successive performances that say 'not getting hurt' - 25m is fantasy land, if someone came in with 10m I'd break their arms to accept.
Chester superb again, looks like Baker was iffy for the goal but he isn't that Ricket a game merchant he was before.
If Gollini had conceded such a soft finish he would have been getting pelters - def need a proper goalkeeper because Bunn is nowhere near the answer.
Ayew-hope Ghana win the ACON so he is gone for a month, just don't get the fuss over him, doesn't contribute anything like enough for his supposed talent.
Disgustingly incompetent refereeing to be looking right at Gestede & the defender jumping for the ball & not seeing the handball...thankfully lino actually broke the unwritten rule & got involved in the game.
Don't know what others experiences have been but the bigger crowds of the last week have brought out a few morons, foul mouthed negative arses behind me, absolutely no appreciation that there is actually an opposition on the pitch trying to play & win the game....just slaughtering our players for anything & everything eff this, eff that, effing c's & all sorts
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we only played with 10 men westwood and hutton are half each
This may be your general opinion, but has no context to this game as they both did ok. What's the point of commenting on a match thread if all your going to do is trot out the same old pre-conceived opinions that bear no resemblance to what happened on the field.
Its not preconceived it's when people think that he did ok, that's the best he's ever going to be for us. So he did ok in a game, I cant remember him playing good. I certainly can't think either have won a man of the match for us. That must rub off one the other players not having confidence in their team mates to go on runs which would leave them exposed
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We didn't steal it we deserved it and with a bit of luck would have won it.
I'm beginning to love Steve Bruce. His football may be ugly but have we ever had such a lucky manager? Long may it continue.
I haven't heard his post-match but if the way he got us out the traps in the first 4 minutes, he may not need to be so lucky. Disappointing game but for the first time since Brighton, a tiny glimmer of hope other than a team prepared to work hard.
I wonder if giving the captaincy to Jedi would improve us. Chester is amazing but I'd look to see out bearded monster screaming and shouting. I just get the feeling he's a little constrained not being allowed to bite off heads.
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Four weirdos in seats H158-161 of the Lower Doug Ellis. A chap not much younger than me sat in seat H160 for the first-half. I've never seen someone so drunk at a football match; early in the game he tried to stand up and fell on top of a guy in seat G159 who promptly turned around and threatened to smash his teeth in (he didn't but I don't blame him for the threat). The four returned late for the second-half and sat in different seats. The drunkard had smuggled in a bottle of Heineken which the youngest of the four took off him, and the other three shared swigs for the remainder of the half. The youngest, who I suspect had also had a few drinks, decided to shout at Robert Green for the last half hour, telling him what a crap keeper he was; I really think he thought Green could hear him. I hope they're not there for the next match.
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Draw was def the correct result IMHO, Leeds are the most compact & organised side I've seen us play this season so not a disgrace. We were better first half they were second, good to get that equaliser.
Jedinak looked tired 2nd half, we really have to get him some quality assistance in the centre of the pitch else he will be burnt out in no time. Actually thought Westwood did ok tonight with pressing the opposition but we do need a significant upgrade on him to get a solid base in there.
Hutton yet again got forward well without actually doing anything once he got there...as for Amavi that's successive performances that say 'not getting hurt' - 25m is fantasy land, if someone came in with 10m I'd break their arms to accept.
Chester superb again, looks like Baker was iffy for the goal but he isn't that Ricket a game merchant he was before.
If Gollini had conceded such a soft finish he would have been getting pelters - def need a proper goalkeeper because Bunn is nowhere near the answer.
Ayew-hope Ghana win the ACON so he is gone for a month, just don't get the fuss over him, doesn't contribute anything like enough for his supposed talent.
Disgustingly incompetent refereeing to be looking right at Gestede & the defender jumping for the ball & not seeing the handball...thankfully lino actually broke the unwritten rule & got involved in the game.
Don't know what others experiences have been but the bigger crowds of the last week have brought out a few morons, foul mouthed negative arses behind me, absolutely no appreciation that there is actually an opposition on the pitch trying to play & win the game....just slaughtering our players for anything & everything eff this, eff that, effing c's & all sorts
Re your last paragraph, Gareth, I agree.
Uberfan John who left this forum to start TBAR always maintained that the home support was better these days when it was reduced to the hard core, and he was probably right.
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Jedinak would have little moral authority as captain bollocking people for mistakes with his consistently woeful distribution.
Do as I say, not as I do.
I like Chester. Probably won't be anywhere near the top 10 Villa centre halves by the time his stint with us is over. But keeps it simple and uncomplicated and doesn't look like he'll sink us with a moment of pure idiocy.
That might not sound a lot, but compared to some of the flakes we have had in that position in recent seasons, he's an absolute prince.
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I thought Westwood played well tonight, he kept the ball moving and was pretty tidy. He also hustled well and made a possible goal saving tackle at the Holte End.
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For all this guff about Leeds, they created one chance of their own from open play, immediately after the goal when a brief panic had set in. There other chance was when Amavi stuck Sakho through.
I like the way when we play shite, our manager is clueless. When Leeds play badly, as they did first half where they were abysmal, they contain us.
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You're probably right, KG but a few needed a bollocking first half. Bacuna only appeared after half time.
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I like the way when we play shite, our manager is clueless. When Leeds play badly, as they did first half where they were abysmal, they contain us.
However you want to look at it, they've taken 4 from 6 points from us. I wish we were that abysmal. First half I thought they were here for a point. They created our best chances with some shocking defence play. Second half they wanted all 3.
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Got a feeling that if we do make the playoffs, this Leeds will be pain facing there. Hope they get culled a bit in January. They don't need Pontus Jansson, Wood or Sacko in the playoffs....
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What is nice is that after what seems like years of consistently conceding late equalisers or opposition winners (see RDM's reign) Bruce seems to have got us into the habit of scoring late winners or equalisers. I used to dread the 80+ minutes mark as it was almost inevitably doom time. Imagine what we could do if we buy a midfield/right back/Keeper.
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I thought Westwood played well tonight, he kept the ball moving and was pretty tidy. He also hustled well and made a possible goal saving tackle at the Homte End.
Yes, I agree. I'm a major critic if his, but that's the best hrs played since the cup semi final. He tracked back, he competed.
Ayew was a major disappointment. He needs to play off Kodjia, or off the bench.
I'm happy with a point, as Leeds played well. They're exciting, without a cutting edge.
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I've just watched the highlights
Have to say I didn't really see that late kodjia chance as one where he should have passed to McCormack. It happened quickly and the ball was bouncing
Unless it was a difference chance we're talking about
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37,078 attendance. Well done to all those that went, it looked bloody cold.
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I thought Westwood played well tonight, he kept the ball moving and was pretty tidy. He also hustled well and made a possible goal saving tackle at the Homte End.
I think this misses the point about how ineffectual he is in terms of securing the middle of the field.
It is not just his fault but what I keep seeing is every time we lose the ball in an offensive position (which happens to often) the opposition are immediately attacking our penalty area.
We appear to be rushed and closed down in the middle of the pitch but the opposition seem to have time to pick passes and attack at will.
Our midfield is crap.
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Westwood's goal saving tackle came about after he miscontrolled it as we were attacking too. Credit for getting back the way he did but that whole scenario shouldn't have even happened. I seem to remember him taking a poor touch on the edge of our box in another game earlier in the season that we then conceded from. Everyone makes mistakes but I feel like we're all now watching Westwood for either his ineffectiveness or for him to botch an attack. Maybe we should have a song for him to help bring him out of this rut.
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As has been said elsewhere their best player was Rob Green.
I thought we played ok in patches.
Ayew just doesn't look like a starting player to me, our attacking threat increased once he was taken off.
The trouble is we seem to have a lot of players who are "impact players" and not enough who will see the game through from start to finish attacking wise. Adomah, Grealish, Gestede, McCormack, none have impressed for a full 90 minutes, they have in the last 20 minutes or even the second half of games when they have appeared from the bench, but otherwise drift in and out of the game doing what you would consider to be simple things poorly with frustrating regularity.
the exception in the attacking third is Kodjia, who runs his socks off every game. He played well last night i thought, looked to get in the right places and to give others space.
The left side of the attack really does need looking at though. S
o often when we get into wide positions and manage to get the ball in [so Hutton isnt crossing it] there's just space all around with players queuing up on the right hand side.
That maybe something that Bacuna playing more regularly has added as hes a midfielder who does get into the box [unlike Westwood, Gardiner and Jedi - who've got the same combined goal total this season as Bacuna] but it needs to be addressed and quickly.
Chester looks so much more comfortable with Baker alongside.
I would have taken a point before the game, Leeds were on a decent run, had not been shown up against Liverpool in the League Cup and were only having points taken off them by the better sides in this division.
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By the way we shouldnt forget we should have been awarded three penalties in that game not one. Leeds probably should have had one as well mind.
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I thought Westwood played well tonight, he kept the ball moving and was pretty tidy. He also hustled well and made a possible goal saving tackle at the Homte End.
I think this misses the point about how ineffectual he is in terms of securing the middle of the field.
It is not just his fault but what I keep seeing is every time we lose the ball in an offensive position (which happens to often) the opposition are immediately attacking our penalty area.
We appear to be rushed and closed down in the middle of the pitch but the opposition seem to have time to pick passes and attack at will.
Our midfield is crap.
I agree that was probably Westwoods best game for us but if that's his best then he's not good enough. Played plenty of neat passes but not enough in the way of creating chances. Oh and this might be over critical of him but if he had been braver when Green parried the ball towards him in front of the Holte he could of been a hero. He should of thrown himself at the ball but instead he turned away from it and closed his eyes. It's all about desire.
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I like the way when we play shite, our manager is clueless. When Leeds play badly, as they did first half where they were abysmal, they contain us.
However you want to look at it, they've taken 4 from 6 points from us. I wish we were that abysmal. First half I thought they were here for a point. They created our best chances with some shocking defence play. Second half they wanted all 3.
I'd love to believe we're better than Leeds, but we've failed to beat them home and away, and they're seven points ahead of us in the table going into the new year. Things may change after January if we get a new midfield, a right back and a keeper, but despite our growing resilience, we're a disjointed side with poor shape and little attacking authority. If we make the playoffs we're going to come up against a team like Leeds.
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I like the way when we play shite, our manager is clueless. When Leeds play badly, as they did first half where they were abysmal, they contain us.
However you want to look at it, they've taken 4 from 6 points from us. I wish we were that abysmal. First half I thought they were here for a point. They created our best chances with some shocking defence play. Second half they wanted all 3.
Kodjia could have scored 4 such were the chances at the start and end of the game. First half they certainly appeared to come for a point as their first attempt on goal was a wild volley in the 45th minute having done little else but recycle the ball under pressure.
Grealish going off made a difference to our ball retention I felt. I hope his knock isn't serious.
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I like the way when we play shite, our manager is clueless. When Leeds play badly, as they did first half where they were abysmal, they contain us.
However you want to look at it, they've taken 4 from 6 points from us. I wish we were that abysmal. First half I thought they were here for a point. They created our best chances with some shocking defence play. Second half they wanted all 3.
I'd love to believe we're better than Leeds, but we've failed to beat them home and away, and they're seven points ahead of us in the table going into the new year. Things may change after January if we get a new midfield, a right back and a keeper, but despite our growing resilience, we're a disjointed side with poor shape and little attacking authority. If we make the playoffs we're going to come up against a team like Leeds.
If we'd have had Bruce since June we'd be above them. Only 7 points when you've had an 11 game head start?
Villa's gonna get ya.
What happened to the chuck it in your own net merchant that Green used to be? He looks a decent keeper again.
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I don't get the comment that if we make the play offs we will come up against a team like Leeds. If we make Top 6 we will have no one to fear as we will have proved we are good enough and whoever we play will fear us just as much if not more especially with Bruce's record.
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First match I've watched this season. Would have settled for a point before the match. Thought we played quite well the first half and thought we might win for a while. Grealish going off changed the game. Subs worked though, but I thought we should've made them 5-10 mins earlier.
Quite an entertaining match all in all. Not brilliant, but better than I expected. We've definitely improved, it's mainly the final ball and the finishing that's still letting us down. Midfield started well, but as I said above grealish going off fucked us. Both sides had chances to win it. I'm happy with a point. The biggest difference from when I saw us play last season is that players no longer seem to be scared and hiding. Players are showing for the ball now and we have options and seem to be playing with a bit more confidence. When we go behind we look capable of turning things round instead of imploding.
We'll do well to go up this season, but next season is nailed on I reckon.
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If. If we get the right players, find some shape, start playing really well on a consistent basis, score lots of goals and batter teams to get into the playoffs, then the likes of Leeds would be right to fear us.
If we continue as we are, with disjointed performances, no shape and few goals, and just scrape into the playoffs, maybe teams like Leeds will fancy their chances against us? After all, why should they fear a team that handed them four points?
I don't think promotion is impossible, of course, but from what I've seen, and from what I know about Villa, I'd be gobsmacked - and utterly delighted, needless to say - if it happened this season.
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After all, why should they fear a team that handed them four points?
That's a meaningless statistic. We've taken a point of Brighton, Derby, Newcastle, so far this season - if we beat those in the return fixtures does that make us not have to 'fear' them?
I think Bruce's comments were spot on after the game. In summary - It was a decent Leeds team, on a good run of form. There's still a lot of work to do with us, but we're heading in the right direction.
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Yet another game when the opposition have retained, passed and moved the ball much better than us - yet once again we get at least a share of the points. And another manager who must have gone away from playing us scratching his head wondering how they didn't get more.
We've become a difficult team to beat and fair play to Bruce for that, it's not just luck - but wouldn't it be nice to see a Villa team that could pass or cross a ball and have a midfielder who could shoot.
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A draw was probably right; we we were better in the first half but they were on top after their goal until the subs changed things.
As has been said many times we have decent players but the squad is unbalanced, if he is able to sort that out in January then I think we can have a good go at reaching the play offs. An energetic, box to box, central midfield player would make such a difference to us but have no idea who might be available.
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Yet another game when the opposition have retained, passed and moved the ball much better than us - yet once again we get at least a share of the points. And another manager who must have gone away from playing us scratching his head wondering how they didn't get more.
We've become a difficult team to beat and fair play to Bruce for that, it's not just luck - but wouldn't it be nice to see a Villa team that could pass or cross a ball and have a midfielder who could shoot.
Here's a quote from Bruce
"We can’t just walk into Aston Villa and say ‘right we are going to play sparkling football.’ We have to lay something down."
He has done a remarkable job in turning us around . I am convinced we will improve greatly in the second half of the season with two or three additions in the transfer window.
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Another point towards safety.
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I reckon Bruce will have a bit to spend, butdoubt we'll get 3 new players in. Xia keeps surprising us though, so we'll see.
I've been reading a book on Cloughie last few weeks on and off, called Provided you don't Kiss Me. Oh for a manager like that right now. Sad how it all ended, but a manager in his pomp like Cloughie would walk the league with these players at Villa right now.
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37,078 attendance. Well done to all those that went, it looked bloody cold.
It was much colder than it looked😟
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37,078 attendance. Well done to all those that went, it looked bloody cold.
It was much colder than it looked😟
I didn't think it was that bad to be honest. I expected it to be colder than it was.
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After all, why should they fear a team that handed them four points?
That's a meaningless statistic. We've taken a point of Brighton, Derby, Newcastle, so far this season - if we beat those in the return fixtures does that make us not have to 'fear' them?
It depends what we mean by 'fear'. I don't mean standing in the tunnel biting our nails, knees knocking. Psychologically, if we've already got the better of a team you could say we might feel more confident when it comes to playing them in the playoffs. More likely, it'll be a bit of a lottery anyway, but if we go into it without significant strengthening and improvement, I know who I'd be putting my money on out of all the teams you mention.
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37,078 attendance. Well done to all those that went, it looked bloody cold.
It was much colder than it looked😟
I didn't think it was that bad to be honest. I expected it to be colder than it was.
I didn't think it was as cold as that even, but I took the heated seat option on my season ticket application
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Well done to all those that went, it looked bloody cold.
It was much colder than it looked😟
I didn't think it was that bad to be honest. I expected it to be colder than it was.
Hells bells, is this a late contender for most banal thread exchange* of 2016! It's like listening to three old women at the laundrette.
*my contributions excluded
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I keep on reading one player or another plays better coming off the bench. Is that because they have more space and they are fresher. Or is it because when they start, they are asked to play a position that does not suit them and we start the game too conservatively. Take Ayew as an example starting wide left and deep in a 442 or coming on late and playing further forward and more central.
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Well done to all those that went, it looked bloody cold.
It was much colder than it looked😟
I didn't think it was that bad to be honest. I expected it to be colder than it was.
Hells bells, is this a late contender for most banal thread exchange* of 2016! It's like listening to three old women at the laundrette.
*my contributions excluded
there's a Laundrette opened up in my town this year, and its doing well
my misses uses it to do the big sheets and duvets in super quick time
(its not cold in there either, quite warm in fact)
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(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__fc6F8OHOqE/TAOEEE2hqcI/AAAAAAAABTU/LJNwQam0LaA/s1600/mrs_brady_old_lady.jpg)
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should of been out of sight by half time highlighted how badly we need quality midfielders who can put a foot on the ball and look composed
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I keep on reading one player or another plays better coming off the bench. Is that because they have more space and they are fresher. Or is it because when they start, they are asked to play a position that does not suit them and we start the game too conservatively. Take Ayew as an example starting wide left and deep in a 442 or coming on late and playing further forward and more central.
My guess is that coming into a game where the defence has got used to how we are playing they offer something different. Ayew on Monday, for example, popped up on an overlap that was not picked and was able to cross for the goal last night it was Adomah running at them that caused problems. Added to the fact that they are fresher against tiring defenders and it demonstrates the advantage of having players who can make a difference on the bench and is hopefully something that will help us even more as the season goes on.
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I'm not sure we deserved that point, but very grateful for it. We have to improve if we've got eyes on the playoff spots.
Of course we did.
Had it not been for Rob Green and a last ditch tackle we'd had gone in at HT 2 up, and as good as Leeds were in the second half I doubt very much they'd have come back from that.
Fair result on reflection.
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I don't really get this "Leeds were shit" stuff. They were very organised, especially in defence. We didn't "make them look good" because they are good. We managed to snatch a point because we found another gear in the latter stages that finally caused some panic in their backline. Following that, as has been observed, we might have won it but we could just as easily have lost it.
As we are we're not good enough to go up, but our aim was to stay in contact with the top 6 until the transfer window. Job done. Now we need to make the window work for us.
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Highlights (http://www.skysports.com/football/a-villa-vs-leeds/358386)
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Fair result, but I thought Leeds were the better side overall. I hope Mr Bruce is working on getting some midfielders in.
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If we continue as we are
Then we will get 70 odd points and make the Play Offs.
That's as we are, an abomination to hear some talk. When we strengthen in January and I'm not sure anybody thinks we won't back the manager in his first window, then we will get stronger.
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A drawn game is a fair reflection.
Leeds should have won/Rob Green had a blinder.
Sell Amavi and Ayew.
Play Cissokho, get Sanchez and Gil back.
Sell Amavi for a lot of money, yes, but not sell him for being crap, because he's not. One bad game doesn't make you crap.
is it only me who thought Amavi was quite good most of the match against, comfortably, their best player. Having said that, his brain farts for the last 10mins were pretty atrocious!
Have to agree. He was constantly up against two players with zero help from Aye. A couple of slips at the end because he was properly knackered.
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Well done to all those that went, it looked bloody cold.
It was much colder than it looked😟
I didn't think it was that bad to be honest. I expected it to be colder than it was.
Hells bells, is this a late contender for most banal thread exchange* of 2016! It's like listening to three old women at the laundrette.
*my contributions excluded
Disgraceful comment disparaging lively conversation on current affairs😡
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Worth a second post just to say Westwood had a good game. I've been happy to criticise so credit where its due and double credit for having to play around the lighthouse which was Jedinak.
Didn't get it when we bought him and haven't seen anything to make me change my mind. The worst thing is for a tall "hard" midfielder he never puts himself about - powder-puff tackling (when he eventually gets there) and looses loads of headers. If we can get some muscles on Gardner (or get his brother to explain how to tackle in midfield) he may be a better option but otherwise we need to buy.
Not sure about McCormack either, his mobility and movement for a centre-forward seem lacking, he only scored on Monday because the ball came to him
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I have never seen my son celebrate a Villa goal on the television as much as he did last night. He went from depths of despair from all the messages he was getting on his phone to dancing round the living room. He didn't bother responding to any of the messages even after we scored showing a bit of class.
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A draw was a fair result. Even though we had the better of the first half the two Amavi screw ups at the back could easily have cost us. Then we had Jedinak with his passing into no mans land which he manages a couple of in most games. He really needs to cut this part of his game out sharpish. 2nd half Leeds were pretty much in control and looked far more organised than we were. Even so, Bunn didn't have too much to do for all the possession They had. He was dreadful for the goal mind, that should be routine stuff for any keeper. The one very pleasing thing about last night is our Manager's ability to make the changes to get us back in the game. Bruce is a good manager.
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A draw was a fair result. Even though we had the better of the first half the two Amavi screw ups at the back could easily have cost us. Then we had Jedinak with his passing into no mans land which he manages a couple of in most games. He really needs to cut this part of his game out sharpish. 2nd half Leeds were pretty much in control and looked far more organised than we were. Even so, Bunn didn't have too much to do for all the possession They had. He was dreadful for the goal mind, that should be routine stuff for any keeper. The one very pleasing thing about last night is our Manager's ability to make the changes to get us back in the game. Bruce is a good manager.
I agree with all of this, although I think Amavi had more than a couple of screw ups, committing himself in no-man's land and then leaving the wide player free or constantly trying to shepherd the ball out.
The organisation was key; they were more organised especially in the second half. We have some good players but they don't join up the dots consistently enough.
Bringing on Adomah changed the game as Hutton and Bacuna never really combined all evening to any effect.
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Bacuna and Grealish are the only two midfielders who give us movement and ball retention so we need another two to win and distribute. We will need that to get anywhere close to winning promotion.
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Well done to all those that went, it looked bloody cold.
It was much colder than it looked😟
I didn't think it was that bad to be honest. I expected it to be colder than it was.
Hells bells, is this a late contender for most banal thread exchange* of 2016! It's like listening to three old women at the laundrette.
*my contributions excluded
Our kettle needs fixing.
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I think yesterday showed why Bruce can do a decent job at this level but also why he's failed at the next level up. We started brilliantly and showed that if we pressed their defence and midfield high up the pitch they'd make mistakes and gift us chances and then instead of pushing on that exposed weakness we backed off and kept our shape for an hour to keep the game tight and ended up being fairly lucky to take a point. That lack of flexibility to change the approach when we stumble on something effective is a big concern. If we'd kept the defensive line high and really pressed them for the entire first half I think we'd have gone in 1-2 to the good and with huge support in the stands, we didn't and instead they used half time to get themselves up and battered us for most of the 2nd half.
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Why is Bruce a failure in the top flight?
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I think most of us agree yesterday wasn't great. Have not been able to get to VP this season due to ill heath, but have watched all the tele games and read reports on the other matches as well as the H & V post match threads. I can think of only 2 matches that you could say we played really well, talking here about the majority of the 90 mins, not just 1 half and that's the Rotherham and Brighton matches.
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I'd still like to see Tshibola given a chance. A complete mystery as to why he's not even making the bench....
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Why is Bruce a failure in the top flight?
being relegated twice and sacked for being in a third relegation battle is a fairly good indicator.
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Another point towards safety.
How many will see us safe? 42? 43? Worrying times.
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Why is Bruce a failure in the top flight?
being relegated twice and sacked for being in a third relegation battle is a fairly good indicator.
Relegated with those titans of football Small Heath and Hull, who he put there and kept up there for a time? That's why he's a failure?
Because a big club stole Sunderlands best player mid way through the season when they were in 10th place?
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I didn't watch the game. It sounded like a dreadful first half and they upped it in the 2nd before we came back. On that basis a draw seemed right. One thing I have noticed is the sudden media fawning over Leeds United again. After their first decent half season in about 10 years.
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What's the point in even arguing it, you clearly won't accept any criticism of him so lets leave it and how about you actually comment on the main point of what I posted instead of arguing about a single word that you disagree with.
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If you don't want to discuss it, that's up to you. You said he was a failure, I asked you to qualify it. I don't think you have done that still.
The beauty of the forum is the users prerogative to argue about what they disagree with.
I disagree with his lack of flexibility to change; Adomah came on, we became more direct and profited from it.
Do you accept that you're wrong? Cuz if not, then what was the point in even arguing it?!11!!
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Let me start by saying I am no fan of Westwood as a player. For me, a midfield player is either a defensive one that can win the ball in midfield and, break up the opponents play or an offensive midfielder who can thread some useful forward passes to the strikers. Sadly, Westwood does not come into either of those categories. Rarely puts in a tackle of note and usually plays the ball sideways or backwards.
I think, the main problem for us at the moment is that we play as 3 seperate units and, not much link up play with a lot of "hit & miss" passes. However, on a really bright note, I also think SB knows exactly what we require from the transfer window and, once he addresses our midfield issues, we will look like the team we as fans also want to see.
Not all is lost and, I really think that if we do make the play offs, I would fancy our chances against any of the teams we have played in the league so far.
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Jedinak is a big part of the problem. Can't pass a decent ball forward. Ayew is truly all fart and no shit. Those two I would sell. But definitely need two midfielders asap.
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Let me start by saying I am no fan of Westwood as a player. For me, a midfield player is either a defensive one that can win the ball in midfield and, break up the opponents play or an offensive midfielder who can thread some useful forward passes to the strikers. Sadly, Westwood does not come into either of those categories. Rarely puts in a tackle of note and usually plays the ball sideways or backwards.
I think, the main problem for us at the moment is that we play as 3 seperate units and, not much link up play with a lot of "hit & miss" passes. However, on a really bright note, I also think SB knows exactly what we require from the transfer window and, once he addresses our midfield issues, we will look like the team we as fans also want to see.
Not all is lost and, I really think that if we do make the play offs, I would fancy our chances against any of the teams we have played in the league so far.
I disagree.
I find Westwood very much an offensive midfield player. It offends me every time I see him in the starting eleven
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I've read reports of the game on two of today's papers. Both mentioned a controversial penalty in their headline. Both articles then went on to say that the handball was obvious, so it seems the controversy was just that the ref didn't give it straight away! Ridiculous headline. If anything was controversial it was the referee's initial decision.
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If you don't want to discuss it, that's up to you. You said he was a failure, I asked you to qualify it. I don't think you have done that still.
The beauty of the forum is the users prerogative to argue about what they disagree with.
I disagree with his lack of flexibility to change; Adomah came on, we became more direct and profited from it.
Do you accept that you're wrong? Cuz if not, then what was the point in even arguing it?!11!!
I'm not wrong, you think relegations don't count as failures if they're with average clubs, I disagree but we're obviously not going to agree so there's no point discussing it. You see bringing Adomah on when we're a goal behind as being flexible, I see it as either reactionary or part of pre-determined plan to keep thing tight until the last 20 minutes and then go for it. I see the latter as the approach that Bruce has taken in almost every game regardless of who we're playing or how the game is going and I therefore see it as his main tactic and I'm not even criticising it in most games because it's been effective for where we are. However I do think that if you're dominating a team and they're making mistakes and gifting you chances then if you stop doing that to slow the game down then it's a tactical error.
The first 5-10 minutes yesterday was the Villa I want to see, trying to play killer passes around the edge of the box, hurrying defenders and midfielders and moving the ball quickly on the floor, Grealish, Bacuna, Ayew and Kodjia were all in their element in that little spell and then they got a little break away and we reverted to defending deep with the midfield sticking deep as well and the huge gap between kodjia and the rest of the team opened up again for an hour. I've seen various comments on multiple threads about strikers looking good off the bench but rubbish when they start, is that the fault of the players or is it because in the last 20 minutes they have people around them and can do something other than try to create a miracle goal from nothing?
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I think part of the issue is to do with how we started the season and the silly late goals conceded, in order to counter that and rebuild confidence Bruce seems to trying to ensure we finish strongly by having good players on the bench and rotating forwards to keep them fresh. That is why I assume he rested a couple yesterday as it was the second game in a week and we have the Cardiff game to come.
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If you don't want to discuss it, that's up to you. You said he was a failure, I asked you to qualify it. I don't think you have done that still.
The beauty of the forum is the users prerogative to argue about what they disagree with.
I disagree with his lack of flexibility to change; Adomah came on, we became more direct and profited from it.
Do you accept that you're wrong? Cuz if not, then what was the point in even arguing it?!11!!
I'm not wrong, you think relegations don't count as failures if they're with average clubs, I disagree but we're obviously not going to agree so there's no point discussing it. You see bringing Adomah on when we're a goal behind as being flexible, I see it as either reactionary or part of pre-determined plan to keep thing tight until the last 20 minutes and then go for it. I see the latter as the approach that Bruce has taken in almost every game regardless of who we're playing or how the game is going and I therefore see it as his main tactic and I'm not even criticising it in most games because it's been effective for where we are. However I do think that if you're dominating a team and they're making mistakes and gifting you chances then if you stop doing that to slow the game down then it's a tactical error.
The first 5-10 minutes yesterday was the Villa I want to see, trying to play killer passes around the edge of the box, hurrying defenders and midfielders and moving the ball quickly on the floor, Grealish, Bacuna, Ayew and Kodjia were all in their element in that little spell and then they got a little break away and we reverted to defending deep with the midfield sticking deep as well and the huge gap between kodjia and the rest of the team opened up again for an hour. I've seen various comments on multiple threads about strikers looking good off the bench but rubbish when they start, is that the fault of the players or is it because in the last 20 minutes they have people around them and can do something other than try to create a miracle goal from nothing?
Do you count Sean Dyche as a failure?
As for the first 15-20 minutes of last night's game, we were excellent but no team is going to keep up that kind of tempo for 90 minutes.
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If you don't want to discuss it, that's up to you. You said he was a failure, I asked you to qualify it. I don't think you have done that still.
The beauty of the forum is the users prerogative to argue about what they disagree with.
I disagree with his lack of flexibility to change; Adomah came on, we became more direct and profited from it.
Do you accept that you're wrong? Cuz if not, then what was the point in even arguing it?!11!!
I'm not wrong, you think relegations don't count as failures if they're with average clubs, I disagree but we're obviously not going to agree so there's no point discussing it. You see bringing Adomah on when we're a goal behind as being flexible, I see it as either reactionary or part of pre-determined plan to keep thing tight until the last 20 minutes and then go for it. I see the latter as the approach that Bruce has taken in almost every game regardless of who we're playing or how the game is going and I therefore see it as his main tactic and I'm not even criticising it in most games because it's been effective for where we are. However I do think that if you're dominating a team and they're making mistakes and gifting you chances then if you stop doing that to slow the game down then it's a tactical error.
The first 5-10 minutes yesterday was the Villa I want to see, trying to play killer passes around the edge of the box, hurrying defenders and midfielders and moving the ball quickly on the floor, Grealish, Bacuna, Ayew and Kodjia were all in their element in that little spell and then they got a little break away and we reverted to defending deep with the midfield sticking deep as well and the huge gap between kodjia and the rest of the team opened up again for an hour. I've seen various comments on multiple threads about strikers looking good off the bench but rubbish when they start, is that the fault of the players or is it because in the last 20 minutes they have people around them and can do something other than try to create a miracle goal from nothing?
Do you count Sean Dyche as a failure?
As for the first 15-20 minutes of last night's game, we were excellent but no team is going to keep up that kind of tempo for 90 minutes.
At premier league level? Yes, of course he is.
EDIT to answer the 2nd bit.
It's not just the tempo, I agree with you on that bit, my problem is the areas of the pitch that we're playing in. They did a graphic during the game that after about 12 minutes 40% of the play had been in the leeds final third. We had complete territorial dominance and we just gave it away.
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Why is it a failure for a club like Small Heath, Hull or Burnley to be relegated? They're dwarves in comparison to their peers and had no real business being at the top table in the first place.
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Why is it a failure for a club like Small Heath, Hull or Burnley to be relegated? They're dwarves in comparison to their peers and had no real business being at the top table in the first place.
You mean clubs like the current premier league champions?
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Burnley have the won the league more often than we have in the last 100 years.
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Yes, clubs like Leicester. It's what made their achievement all the more remarkable and their inevitable relegation in the next two or three years little more surprising than it ought to have been.
Presumably the sword cuts both ways and Pep or Klopp will be failures should they not win the title or the European Cup in the car of Pep.
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What does Grealish do? Genuine question. What position is he meant to be playing? He creates barely anything and has very little impact on most games. Hugely overrated because he's a Villa fan.
He's about the only player with genuine attacking class at the club.
With one assist all season
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Following the succession of bloody awful managers we have had I can't understand why anyone would want to spend much time moaning about Steve Bruce?
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Following the succession of bloody awful managers we have had I can't understand why anyone would want to spend much time moaning about Steve Bruce?
Probably because it's Steve Bruce and no, neither can I.
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I can only echo that. It's been years, half a decade, of relentless shite, the manager is getting three or four managers players to actually play and get an average of 2 points per game. I can't see why he's getting any stick as of yet.
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How many of the anti Westwood brigade were actually at the game last night? Reading 16 pages of posts there is little praise of a player who had a good game last night
He retained the ball .... we commented where we were sat that in the first 10 minutes he made about 6 passes to other Villa players whereas Gardner simply gives it away
When players have good games lets give praise rather than just because he was on the pitch state he was poor
Exactly the same comments apply to Hutton ...not the most talented but I don't believe he had a poor game last night either
Lets be fair on the players !
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I'm not a fan of Westwood at all but he was ok last night. He's still not good enough though.
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Most people have said Westwood was decent last night, as was Hutton apart from his crossing which was truly awful.
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Westwood was decent. It's unfortunate that Jedinak was awful and therefore the impact was counteracted. If Westwood can perform like that and add a bit more incision to his play he'd be useful.
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Westwood was decent. It's unfortunate that Jedinak was awful and therefore the impact was counteracted. If Westwood can perform like that and add a bit more incision to his play he'd be useful.
That's the problem though. He has a decent game every now and again but ultimately, he's not good enough.
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What does Grealish do? Genuine question. What position is he meant to be playing? He creates barely anything and has very little impact on most games. Hugely overrated because he's a Villa fan.
He's about the only player with genuine attacking class at the club.
With one assist all season
What about the goals he's scored and the penalties he's won, or the fact he can hold onto the ball when most of our other players give it away for fun. Like it or not he has genuine talent which can only get better.
Yeah, feck that, let's sell him.
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Following the succession of bloody awful managers we have had I can't understand why anyone would want to spend much time moaning about Steve Bruce?
Probably because it's Steve Bruce and no, neither can I.
We very nearly lost a game that we needed to win to really push into the play off mix and you can't see any reason to think we missed out? Against the same team a few weeks back we put in a performance as bad as any from the last 5-6years that you're all so mindful of and complaining about that wasn't fair either. If we don't get promotion this season it will it be nothing to do with Bruce because he didn't get the full season and didn't pick every player? I didn't want Bruce because I knew a lot of games would go this way where we played for the draw and then hoped for something special to turn it into a win, it's the same approach that McLeish had and yet because we're a league lower I'm supposed to now think it's brilliant and rosey and be all happy clappy about watching us play some of the most tedious football in the league?
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Following the succession of bloody awful managers we have had I can't understand why anyone would want to spend much time moaning about Steve Bruce?
Probably because it's Steve Bruce and no, neither can I.
We very nearly lost a game that we needed to win to really push into the play off mix and you can't see any reason to think we missed out? Against the same team a few weeks back we put in a performance as bad as any from the last 5-6years that you're all so mindful of and complaining about that wasn't fair either. If we don't get promotion this season it will it be nothing to do with Bruce because he didn't get the full season and didn't pick every player? I didn't want Bruce because I knew a lot of games would go this way where we played for the draw and then hoped for something special to turn it into a win, it's the same approach that McLeish had and yet because we're a league lower I'm supposed to now think it's brilliant and rosey and be all happy clappy about watching us play some of the most tedious football in the league?
As Mr.Bruce rightly acknowledges, you don't go from terminal velocity shit to scintillating in one step. Suck it up.
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Following the succession of bloody awful managers we have had I can't understand why anyone would want to spend much time moaning about Steve Bruce?
Probably because it's Steve Bruce and no, neither can I.
We very nearly lost a game that we needed to win to really push into the play off mix and you can't see any reason to think we missed out? Against the same team a few weeks back we put in a performance as bad as any from the last 5-6years that you're all so mindful of and complaining about that wasn't fair either. If we don't get promotion this season it will it be nothing to do with Bruce because he didn't get the full season and didn't pick every player? I didn't want Bruce because I knew a lot of games would go this way where we played for the draw and then hoped for something special to turn it into a win, it's the same approach that McLeish had and yet because we're a league lower I'm supposed to now think it's brilliant and rosey and be all happy clappy about watching us play some of the most tedious football in the league?
I think you've just confirmed what I said, thank you.
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No one is saying to be 'happy clappy' and act like we've turned into a hybrid of Barcelona and Brazil '70, just that some don't seem to want to enjoy winning more often than not, mainly because it's Steve Bruce. Which after 5 years of utter shit and rarely winning seems a bit weird to me.
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No one is saying to be 'happy clappy' and act like we've turned into a hybrid of Barcelona and Brazil '70, just that some don't seem to want to enjoy winning more often than not, mainly because it's Steve Bruce. Which after 5 years of utter shit and rarely winning seems a bit weird to me.
And me
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Following the succession of bloody awful managers we have had I can't understand why anyone would want to spend much time moaning about Steve Bruce?
Probably because it's Steve Bruce and no, neither can I.
We very nearly lost a game that we needed to win to really push into the play off mix and you can't see any reason to think we missed out? Against the same team a few weeks back we put in a performance as bad as any from the last 5-6years that you're all so mindful of and complaining about that wasn't fair either. If we don't get promotion this season it will it be nothing to do with Bruce because he didn't get the full season and didn't pick every player? I didn't want Bruce because I knew a lot of games would go this way where we played for the draw and then hoped for something special to turn it into a win, it's the same approach that McLeish had and yet because we're a league lower I'm supposed to now think it's brilliant and rosey and be all happy clappy about watching us play some of the most tedious football in the league?
I think you've just confirmed what I said, thank you.
So you think my criticism of us not commiting players to attack and not putting teams under pressure is purely because it's Bruce and has absolutely no grounding in our performances? Why don't you just outright accuse me of not liking him because he's ex-blues and get it over with, I know it's bullshit, but if it makes you feel a little happier about something just get it out of the way.
Moving on, I'm not happy that we're about the worst team to watch in a league full of teams that cost less than 5% of what we spent but apparently I should be grateful because all of that money was wasted and we've got a shit squad that can't outplay Burton fucking Albion. I don't believe that, I refuse to because, as Gana has shown with his performances under a decent manager we've had players capable of competing but we've had bad managers who haven't been able to get anything like the sum of their parts out of the squad. I don't think Bruce is getting value from it either but, asI've said repeatedly, the results are good enough up til now for him to earn the opportunity to try to improve things and maybe if he can get a couple of players that can link things together he can do that but refusing to hear a bad word against him after some of the performances in the last month is just weird.
No one is saying to be 'happy clappy' and act like we've turned into a hybrid of Barcelona and Brazil '70, just that some don't seem to want to enjoy winning more often than not, mainly because it's Steve Bruce. Which after 5 years of utter shit and rarely winning seems a bit weird to me.
Yes they are, that's the problem, I pointed out what I saw as a tactical flaw from the game where we were totally on top and by our own actions we let them back into the game to the point where they went ahead and were inches away from putting us to bed before Bruce reacted. That's fair criticism and yet a few people refuse to even acknowledge it as such.
Utter shit but winning is a step up from utter shit and not winning but it's not a state I want to stay at for long and the last few weeks have just backed up my opinion that Bruce is more than happy for this to be our style. Let's see who he buys, if he focuses on a striker and goalkeeper as I suspect he's going to then it's just a sign that he sees nothing wrong with the complete lack of control we have in midfield. I think we'll get a midfielder but I suspect it will be someone a lot more similar to Jedinak than we want.
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Westwood was decent. It's unfortunate that Jedinak was awful and therefore the impact was counteracted. If Westwood can perform like that and add a bit more incision to his play he'd be useful.
That's the problem though. He has a decent game every now and again but ultimately, he's not good enough.
That pretty much sums it up.
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No one is saying to be 'happy clappy' and act like we've turned into a hybrid of Barcelona and Brazil '70, just that some don't seem to want to enjoy winning more often than not, mainly because it's Steve Bruce. Which after 5 years of utter shit and rarely winning seems a bit weird to me.
And me
And me
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What does Grealish do? Genuine question. What position is he meant to be playing? He creates barely anything and has very little impact on most games. Hugely overrated because he's a Villa fan.
He's about the only player with genuine attacking class at the club.
With one assist all season
What about the goals he's scored and the penalties he's won, or the fact he can hold onto the ball when most of our other players give it away for fun. Like it or not he has genuine talent which can only get better.
Yeah, feck that, let's sell him.
Didnt say we should sell him. Just think he is average and inconsistent
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After 5 years of crap football and a mess of appointing 4 different managers, yes I'm glad we're winning games and being competitive again (even if we haven't always played well), and if that makes me 'happy clappy', then so be it, as patronising as it was to say.
You carry on being miserable about the performances, and i'll carry on watching my team win and trying to get back up. In the meantime, put the razor blades away and happy new year.
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I didn't want Bruce anywhere near the club, but he arrived, and even though the performances aren't the best the results have improved immensely which I'm pleased with. I'm looking forward to see what he does in the transfer market to undo the madness of RDM last summer. The play-offs are still getable.
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No they aren't. No matter how often you say it Paul, no one is saying don't say that we played crap. They are saying, well I certainly am, that some people don't seem to want enjoy winning or want to give Bruce any credit for turning round a club that had forgotten how to win.
According to many, if not most for at least one of them, we don't have a reliable goalkeeper, we have dodgy fullbacks, a crap midfield and an underperforming set of attackers. And yet despite that and not having signed any players, the manager keeps getting wins, to me that's worthy of at least some praise.
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No one is saying to be 'happy clappy' and act like we've turned into a hybrid of Barcelona and Brazil '70, just that some don't seem to want to enjoy winning more often than not, mainly because it's Steve Bruce. Which after 5 years of utter shit and rarely winning seems a bit weird to me.
And me
And me
And me.
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After 5 years of crap football and a mess of appointing 4 different managers, yes I'm glad we're winning games and being competitive again (even if we haven't always played well), and if that makes me 'happy clappy', then so be it, as patronising as it was to say.
You carry on being miserable about the performances, and i'll carry on watching my team win and trying to get back up. In the meantime, put the razor blades away and happy new year.
I purposely went with patronising because you decided to start it by saying I'm unhappy because it's Bruce rather than because I find us incredibly hard to watch right now. The razor blades comment is pretty pathetic as well, I'm more than capable of seeing a problem with our style of play without being suicidal. I like that we're winning games, I just don't particularly want to watch how we do it.
Look at the player ratings people post in the post match threads and all the criticism of players, most people are as unhappy as I am, but for some reason loads of people have decided to direct that at Westwood/Ayew/RM/Grealish/Amavi rather than realising we have lots of players who like to play quick attacking football and we're choosing to play a style that doesn't suit them.
I honestly think something needs to give because it can't carry on all season like this. He either needs to accept that these players don't work for him and try to replace them in this window or he needs to find a way to get them playing somewhere near their ability playing poorly and winning is a perk not a style and my concern is that if it isn't addressed we'll regret it.
It should be no shock that I'm a big rugby fan and for anyone who was involved in the various threads when Lancaster was in charge my opinion of some of his tactical decisions even when we were winning games was fairly consistent, my argument then and now is that playing a style to get where you want to be that is not going to be good enough when you get there is a really dangerous thing to do because it's easy to get distracted by a few good results and forget the problems. If you do that things like the 2015 Rugby world cup happen.
Fundamentally Bruce needs to find a way to stop our strikers being isolated for 60-70 minutes, either by a change of style or a change of personnel. If he doesn't believe he can do it without new signings then so be it and hopefully we'll have 2-3 new players in the next month that stop us looking so disjointed but it does need to be addressed this month or the play offs are a pipe dream.
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Like I've already said, we've not played great in some games and I think most people would agree with that but you're making out as if it's going horribly wrong. You're suggesting that the players might not be working for him? What utter drivel, seriously. If you really think that, I would stick to watching rugby.
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We're playing pretty crap but the team is more organised and therefore giving away less free goals and we are getting the results because of it. Whilst our team is lopsided I will take grinding out results any day of the week.
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No they aren't. No matter how often you say it Paul, no one is saying don't say that we played crap. They are saying, well I certainly am, that some people don't seem to want enjoy winning or want to give Bruce any credit for turning round a club that had forgotten how to win.
According to many, if not most for at least one of them, we don't have a reliable goalkeeper, we have dodgy fullbacks, a crap midfield and an underperforming set of attackers. And yet despite that and not having signed any players, the manager keeps getting wins, to me that's worthy of at least some praise.
Go back and re-read what started this. I said that I think the reason he has 'failed' (but lets reword it to not achieved anything) in the premier league is because he starts the game with a plan and he doesn't change from that if the game is going differently to his expectations. I think it was a mistake to back off and let them get into the game so easily after our start but rather than discussing that or disagreeing with even I had people accusing me of just not liking him. I don't get how me highlighting a tactical error shows that I somehow don't want to be happy with results under Bruce. I am happy with the results, I'm just not convinced that how we're getting them is sustainable and I see very little evidence of Bruce doing anything to address the problems with the performances. For some people him coming out after a bad performance and saying it wasn't very good is enough, and that's an opinion they're can stick with if they choose, but it's not for me.
Like I've already said, we've not played great in some games and I think most people would agree with that but you're making out as if it's going horribly wrong. You're suggesting that the players might not be working for him? What utter drivel, seriously. If you really think that, I would stick to watching rugby.
Bold bit - suggesting I should stop watching football because I don't share your opinion is dickishness of the highest order.
As for utter drivel why not spend ten minutes going through player threads in this forum and see what's being said about individual players. Do you honestly think Ayew, who was our best player for his time at club until Bruce arrived, has suddenly become shit and Bruce is nothing to do with that? What I mean by working for him is that if you want a left sided midfield who helps his fullback, sticks to his position an dkeeps things tight but can get the odd cross in then you don't pick Ayew or Kodjia there, they're square pegs in round holes and right now this forum is blaming the players who are out of position and doing a job they're not suited to for not doing it very well which I think is totally unfair.
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We're playing pretty crap but the team is more organised and therefore giving away less free goals and we are getting the results because of it. Whilst our team is lopsided I will take grinding out results any day of the week.
I don't disagree, I just don't think we shouldn't talk about what the lopsided problems are or absolve Bruce from any part in those problems.
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We're playing pretty crap but the team is more organised and therefore giving away less free goals and we are getting the results because of it. Whilst our team is lopsided I will take grinding out results any day of the week.
I don't disagree, I just don't think we shouldn't talk about what the lopsided problems are or absolve Bruce from any part in those problems.
Ooh, ooh. I absolve him with Papal enthusiasm.
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Considering I commented about Burnley I know full well what started it.
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By the same token, Baker and Grealish have improved under him and we just look more organised than we did under RDM which is exactly what we needed and we're also showing character getting ourselves back into games which is also good.
We were so utterly woeful last season, it was always possibly going to take baby steps to get us back to where we were and despite some unconvincing performances, we're going in the right direction hopefully. We're within touching distance of the play offs going into the new year which after the start we made is a bonus. Yes it could be better but it could be a whole lot worse. I'm more than happy enough with the job he's done so far.
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In 7.6 billion years time the sun will reach its maximum size, and its surface will extend beyond Earth's orbit by 20 percent. Our planet will be engulfed by continuous nuclear fusion and all life will be extinguished.
I want to know what Bruce is going to do about it
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We're playing pretty crap but the team is more organised and therefore giving away less free goals and we are getting the results because of it. Whilst our team is lopsided I will take grinding out results any day of the week.
I don't disagree, I just don't think we shouldn't talk about what the lopsided problems are or absolve Bruce from any part in those problems.
Our problems seem to stem from not having a midfield. The only thing I can see Bruce could have done differently is playing Bacuna more often in midfield and the situation with Tshibola. Bacuna is Bacuna, very very average and often goes missing himself and lord knows what the situation is with Tish.
Controversial but I think pound for pound our performances under Di Matteo were overall a better quality but often so lacking in concentration we were kings of our own downfall. Bruce has brought concentration, organisation and maybe instills more belief in the players. We know what we are getting with Bruce, I'm happy, it's a huge step up from the laughing stock we've been.
Also not getting dicked or sucker punched fortnightly at home feels nice.
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In 7.6 billion years time the sun will reach its maximum size, and its surface will extend beyond Earth's orbit by 20 percent. Our planet will be engulfed by continuous nuclear fusion and all life will be extinguished.
I want to know what Bruce is going to do about it
Bring Adomah on.
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By the same token, Baker and Grealish have improved under him and we just look more organised than we did under RDM which is exactly what we needed and we're also showing character getting ourselves back into games which is also good.
We were so utterly woeful last season, it was always possibly going to take baby steps to get us back to where we were and despite some unconvincing performances, we're going in the right direction hopefully. We're within touching distance of the play offs going into the new year which after the start we made is a bonus. Yes it could be better but it could be a whole lot worse. I'm more than happy enough with the job he's done so far.
The problem is that you seem to think that the bold bit isn't an opinion I share, it is, I've said all along that he can get us into the playoffs and I stand by that. What I disagree with is the idea that because the results are going pretty well we shouldn't care about the performances. Last night was particularly frustrating because we put probably the best team he's started with for about a month (my only change would be Adomah in for Westwood and play Bacuna in the centre) and they played high pressing with flair and tempo for 10 minutes and decided to switch back to long ball. I want us to play like that and I'm frustrated that we got a glimpse of it before going back to the defend deep and punt it long style that we've seen fore the last month or so.
We're better organised at the back (but still make too many mistakes) and we're not conceding in the last 5minutes every week which is great and the results in general are good. From that view it's a step I can accept but where the balance was ok in Bruce's first few games, with only really the blues game as a 'slip' in the middle, we seem to have taken a step back in the last 6 games and the poorer points return from them and 2 defeats does back that up.
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In 7.6 billion years time the sun will reach its maximum size, and its surface will extend beyond Earth's orbit by 20 percent. Our planet will be engulfed by continuous nuclear fusion and all life will be extinguished.
I want to know what Bruce is going to do about it
Bring Adomah on.
with about 20 minutes to go.
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Suliman would be a better choice. His first name is Jesus.
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In 7.6 billion years time the sun will reach its maximum size, and its surface will extend beyond Earth's orbit by 20 percent. Our planet will be engulfed by continuous nuclear fusion and all life will be extinguished.
I want to know what Bruce is going to do about it
"We'll pick wor selves up off the floor and disperse rapidly across the galaxy in the form of carbon"
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In 7.6 billion years time the sun will reach its maximum size, and its surface will extend beyond Earth's orbit by 20 percent. Our planet will be engulfed by continuous nuclear fusion and all life will be extinguished.
I want to know what Bruce is going to do about it
Well that's why he is paid a million trillion pounds so he better sort it out in this transfer window.😡
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I didn't watch the game. It sounded like a dreadful first half and they upped it in the 2nd before we came back. On that basis a draw seemed right. One thing I have noticed is the sudden media fawning over Leeds United again. After their first decent half season in about 10 years.
i noticed this. What really pissed me off was when the commentator said (twice) 'these two clubs have 10 league titles between them.' Yes and seven of them are ours you muppet!
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We have two European Cups between us too don't we?
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By the same token, Baker and Grealish have improved under him and we just look more organised than we did under RDM which is exactly what we needed and we're also showing character getting ourselves back into games which is also good.
We were so utterly woeful last season, it was always possibly going to take baby steps to get us back to where we were and despite some unconvincing performances, we're going in the right direction hopefully. We're within touching distance of the play offs going into the new year which after the start we made is a bonus. Yes it could be better but it could be a whole lot worse. I'm more than happy enough with the job he's done so far.
The problem is that you seem to think that the bold bit isn't an opinion I share, it is, I've said all along that he can get us into the playoffs and I stand by that. What I disagree with is the idea that because the results are going pretty well we shouldn't care about the performances. Last night was particularly frustrating because we put probably the best team he's started with for about a month (my only change would be Adomah in for Westwood and play Bacuna in the centre) and they played high pressing with flair and tempo for 10 minutes and decided to switch back to long ball. I want us to play like that and I'm frustrated that we got a glimpse of it before going back to the defend deep and punt it long style that we've seen fore the last month or so.
We're better organised at the back (but still make too many mistakes) and we're not conceding in the last 5minutes every week which is great and the results in general are good. From that view it's a step I can accept but where the balance was ok in Bruce's first few games, with only really the blues game as a 'slip' in the middle, we seem to have taken a step back in the last 6 games and the poorer points return from them and 2 defeats does back that up.
Is it really that much different to what MON had us playing....strong at the back, getting the ball quicker into the corners....we just had better players in those days to execute the tactics but to me the style of play isn't a whole world away.
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By the same token, Baker and Grealish have improved under him and we just look more organised than we did under RDM which is exactly what we needed and we're also showing character getting ourselves back into games which is also good.
We were so utterly woeful last season, it was always possibly going to take baby steps to get us back to where we were and despite some unconvincing performances, we're going in the right direction hopefully. We're within touching distance of the play offs going into the new year which after the start we made is a bonus. Yes it could be better but it could be a whole lot worse. I'm more than happy enough with the job he's done so far.
The problem is that you seem to think that the bold bit isn't an opinion I share, it is, I've said all along that he can get us into the playoffs and I stand by that. What I disagree with is the idea that because the results are going pretty well we shouldn't care about the performances. Last night was particularly frustrating because we put probably the best team he's started with for about a month (my only change would be Adomah in for Westwood and play Bacuna in the centre) and they played high pressing with flair and tempo for 10 minutes and decided to switch back to long ball. I want us to play like that and I'm frustrated that we got a glimpse of it before going back to the defend deep and punt it long style that we've seen fore the last month or so.
We're better organised at the back (but still make too many mistakes) and we're not conceding in the last 5minutes every week which is great and the results in general are good. From that view it's a step I can accept but where the balance was ok in Bruce's first few games, with only really the blues game as a 'slip' in the middle, we seem to have taken a step back in the last 6 games and the poorer points return from them and 2 defeats does back that up.
Is it really that much different to what MON had us playing....strong at the back, getting the ball quicker into the corners....we just had better players in those days to execute the tactics but to me the style of play isn't a whole world away.
Would you have him back?
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Hasn't Bruce acknowledged that the performances and style have to improve. I think he has just found a way of getting results with the limitations that he has. I certain he'll be looking to change things up in January if the right type of player becomes available.
Remember when Brian little room over from big Ron our performances where pretty shocking for the remainder of that season but given a few signings and a pre season we came back a totally different team.
I think we are certainly going to need a bit of patience. I don't see the style changing much until he can address the midfield with the type of player that's needed
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We have had nearly 80000 supporters watching the last two games. The football isn't great. He is working with what he has got. Yet we are winning. The academy has been shot to bits by previous manager(s) preferring to buy cheap poor imports who were probably no better than what we had and were subject to Lambert's coaches being sacked.
Since TSM1 was appointed (and signed Hutton) surely there was a right back who could hold his position, pass the ball, have awareness and head the ball, (Hutton 1 out of 4 ) who passed through the system.
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Hasn't Bruce acknowledged that the performances and style have to improve. I think he has just found a way of getting results with the limitations that he has. I certain he'll be looking to change things up in January if the right type of player becomes available.
Remember when Brian little room over from big Ron our performances where pretty shocking for the remainder of that season but given a few signings and a pre season we came back a totally different team.
I think we are certainly going to need a bit of patience. I don't see the style changing much until he can address the midfield with the type of player that's needed
If you're saying he can only work with what he's got, I agree, of course.
It makes this January transfer window very interesting because of the speculation about what a Steve Bruce team might look like, given his backing and his ultimate target for this season.
Will he be thinking beyond that, I wonder, and should he be, at this stage?
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After 5 years of crap football and a mess of appointing 4 different managers, yes I'm glad we're winning games and being competitive again (even if we haven't always played well)...
We've rarely played well, which is the issue for Paul, myself and a few others.
Baby steps, I know. After the complete turd that is the past five years. But with the quality of player we were able to keep in in the summer combined with the financial clout that enabled us to buy some of the best players in this division, we should be more convincing at this level. Even with the well documented weaknesses in certain positions.
Our style of play shouldn't be viewed as an optional extra either; the icing on the cake or something to merely provide additional entertainment. It's weird, but the better a team plays in terms of creating chances and controlling the game in general, the more matches they tend to win.
We are scratching out results at the moment. And there is a place for that too. But it creates a feeling that we can't keep on getting away with it.
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Working with what you've got is great, my concern is there is that he'd rather reintegrate Gabby than give RHM or Green a chance, he'd rather play Westwood who the crowd are booing than give Tish a chance and he appears determined to bin Gollini and replace him with a loanee. As above it's all a bit MON and that, in hindsight, was a massive missed opportunity, I just really don't want us to do the same thing again.
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After 5 years of crap football and a mess of appointing 4 different managers, yes I'm glad we're winning games and being competitive again (even if we haven't always played well)...
We've rarely played well, which is the issue for Paul, myself and a few others.
Baby steps, I know. After the complete turd that is the past five years. But with the quality of player we were able to keep in in the summer combined with the financial clout that enabled us to buy some of the best players in this division, we should be more convincing at this level. Even with the well documented weaknesses in certain positions.
Our style of play shouldn't be viewed as an optional extra either; the icing on the cake or something to merely provide additional entertainment. It's weird, but the better a team plays in terms of creating chances and controlling the game in general, the more matches they tend to win.
We are scratching out results at the moment. And there is a place for that too. But it creates a feeling that we can't keep on getting away with it.
agree with most of what you posted KG. Hence my Cloughie post earlier.
There are definite signs of recovery and improvement though, or 'green shoots' as SB puts it.
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blimey are we never happy as supporters? I have yet to see Villa defeated at home this season - how tedious is that!
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In 7.6 billion years time the sun will reach its maximum size, and its surface will extend beyond Earth's orbit by 20 percent. Our planet will be engulfed by continuous nuclear fusion and all life will be extinguished.
I want to know what Bruce is going to do about it
"We'll pick wor selves up off the floor and disperse rapidly across the galaxy in the form of carbon"
And 'go again' if Lambert was in charge
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The penalty came about because of the pressure Gestede applied, my worry is that without the option of
that kind of player we will struggle up forward.
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We have two European Cups between us too don't we?
No. Leeds have never won the European Cup.
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The penalty came about because of the pressure Gestede applied, my worry is that without the option of
that kind of player we will struggle up forward.
I'm surprised we're willing to let him go at the moment to be honest. I'm not a massive fan of him but like you said, he's a good option to bring on if we're chasing or need to win a game.
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We have two European Cups between us too don't we?
No. Leeds have never won the European Cup.
That's not how they tell it.
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The penalty came about because of the pressure Gestede applied, my worry is that without the option of
that kind of player we will struggle up forward.
I'm surprised we're willing to let him go at the moment to be honest. I'm not a massive fan of him but like you said, he's a good option to bring on if we're chasing or need to win a game.
Me too but Bruce said the other day that he has too many strikers and he is a bit part player who he can get some money for so I guess he is willing to sacrifice that IF he can use it to strengthen elsewhere.
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Could I just say a big thank you to the family who run the car park on Trinity Road.
My 12 year old thought he we had transported ourselves to Barbados in June, deciding that a villa top with a flimsy hoodie would suffice. Me thinking he had the brains he was born with didn't check he'd got his coat - so we were just about to go back to Lichfield.
We park behind one of the houses on the Trinity and have done regularly for years. The lad collecting the money heard out somewhat heated discussion about hyperthermia and gave him a coat to keep him warm for the game.
Fantastic kids, wouldn't take extra for the loan of the coat. Thank you.
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The penalty came about because of the pressure Gestede applied, my worry is that without the option of
that kind of player we will struggle up forward.
I'm surprised we're willing to let him go at the moment to be honest. I'm not a massive fan of him but like you said, he's a good option to bring on if we're chasing or need to win a game.
Me too but Bruce said the other day that he has too many strikers and he is a bit part player who he can get some money for so I guess he is willing to sacrifice that IF he can use it to strengthen elsewhere.
I don't think Dr.T is obliged to throw much more money into the playing squad next month. IMO we need to release more players than we bring in, replacing dross who barely/don't contribute with astute signings. If SB believes the money he can recoup from sales is better spent then good for him. I prefer the policy of buying emerging talent already performing with distinction at this level who see Villa as the next step. Throw in an experienced head whose level of professionalism is undiminished and doesn't see us as an easy payday and we are getting somewhere.
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Could I just say a big thank you to the family who run the car park on Trinity Road.
My 12 year old thought he we had transported ourselves to Barbados in June, deciding that a villa top with a flimsy hoodie would suffice. Me thinking he had the brains he was born with didn't check he'd got his coat - so we were just about to go back to Lichfield.
We park behind one of the houses on the Trinity and have done regularly for years. The lad collecting the money heard out somewhat heated discussion about hyperthermia and gave him a coat to keep him warm for the game.
Fantastic kids, wouldn't take extra for the loan of the coat. Thank you.
Lovely story.
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Oh fuck, "happy clappy" has made an appearance? Surely should result in a two match ban whoever brought that old chestnut back.
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We have two European Cups between us too don't we?
No. Leeds have never won the European Cup.
That's not how they tell it.
Just looked it up. The Fairs cup was not much to shout about and not recognised by fifa as a European trophy. But im sure Leeds fans will claim it as the European cup which is laughable really. And Leeds do seem to have a lot of media friends who can wait to get over excited about them.
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We have two European Cups between us too don't we?
No. Leeds have never won the European Cup.
That's not how they tell it.
Just looked it up. The Fairs cup was not much to shout about and not recognised by fifa as a European trophy. But im sure Leeds fans will claim it as the European cup which is laughable really. And Leeds do seem to have a lot of media friends who can wait to get over excited about them.
It's more to do with their sense of injustice at losing 2-0 to Bayern in the '75 final, which at the time they took in the only manner fitting, smashing the place up.
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The Edge, I was taking the mick, I know they've not won the European Cup, the sad twats.
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We have two European Cups between us too don't we?
No. Leeds have never won the European Cup.
That's not how they tell it.
Just looked it up. The Fairs cup was not much to shout about and not recognised by fifa as a European trophy. But im sure Leeds fans will claim it as the European cup which is laughable really. And Leeds do seem to have a lot of media friends who can wait to get over excited about them.
Wasnt the fairs cup basically open to all of the big cities in europe with no qualifcation required hence small heath playing in it
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We have two European Cups between us too don't we?
No. Leeds have never won the European Cup.
That's not how they tell it.
Just looked it up. The Fairs cup was not much to shout about and not recognised by fifa as a European trophy. But im sure Leeds fans will claim it as the European cup which is laughable really. And Leeds do seem to have a lot of media friends who can wait to get over excited about them.
Wasnt the fairs cup basically open to all of the big cities in europe with no qualifcation required hence small heath playing in it
Only for the first few years. From 1968 it was based on league position.
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The Edge, I was taking the mick, I know they've not won the European Cup, the sad twats.
Oh ok. Fair enough
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The Inter City Fairs Cup was for cities not individual sides at first.
The Noses represented Birmingham rather than BCFC. We told them to fuck off.
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After 5 years of crap football and a mess of appointing 4 different managers, yes I'm glad we're winning games and being competitive again (even if we haven't always played well)...
We've rarely played well, which is the issue for Paul, myself and a few others.
Baby steps, I know. After the complete turd that is the past five years. But with the quality of player we were able to keep in in the summer combined with the financial clout that enabled us to buy some of the best players in this division, we should be more convincing at this level. Even with the well documented weaknesses in certain positions.
Our style of play shouldn't be viewed as an optional extra either; the icing on the cake or something to merely provide additional entertainment. It's weird, but the better a team plays in terms of creating chances and controlling the game in general, the more matches they tend to win.
We are scratching out results at the moment. And there is a place for that too. But it creates a feeling that we can't keep on getting away with it.
I'm with you and paul_e in that I am pleased we are getting results but worried that we are not improving and every game seems to be on a knife-edge. We are having a bit of good fortune at the moment which we didn't have earlier in the season (how many times did we hit the woodwork) but it could easily go the other way.
The weaknesses I see in the team at the moment are (i) poor distribution from the back (ii) poor use of the ball from right back when in very good positions (iii) giving the ball away too easily in the middle of the park by misplaced passes, over ambitious passes, playing easy balls to players in worse positions that then puts them under pressure and simply by bad control of the ball (iv) not being able to work the ball through the middle of the pitch (v) not getting players into the box when we are attacking (vi) poor crossing (vii) not being able to hold the ball up in central forward positions. Those weaknesses have been with us all season and I am not seeing us improving on them. The one thing I have seen an improvement on is being tighter at the back which I put down to having the right foot and left foot combination in central defence, Amavi's pace that gets us out of trouble at times and Jedinak adding protection in front of the back four (he is not brilliant but has plugged a hole which Westwood was never strong enough to do).
It is difficult to buy players of the right quality in January and I think it will be very hard for Bruce. Yes, he can buy players but I fear he may buy for the sake of it, rather than buying in crucial areas that significantly improves us. Midfield has to be the first priority, followed buy a right back. I believe that these two positions can significantly improve us and improve the performances of other players in the team. It may be easier to bring in higher quality players on loan rather than buying and then think again at the end of the season.
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After 5 years of crap football and a mess of appointing 4 different managers, yes I'm glad we're winning games and being competitive again (even if we haven't always played well)...
We've rarely played well, which is the issue for Paul, myself and a few others.
Baby steps, I know. After the complete turd that is the past five years. But with the quality of player we were able to keep in in the summer combined with the financial clout that enabled us to buy some of the best players in this division, we should be more convincing at this level. Even with the well documented weaknesses in certain positions.
Our style of play shouldn't be viewed as an optional extra either; the icing on the cake or something to merely provide additional entertainment. It's weird, but the better a team plays in terms of creating chances and controlling the game in general, the more matches they tend to win.
We are scratching out results at the moment. And there is a place for that too. But it creates a feeling that we can't keep on getting away with it.
The weaknesses I see in the team at the moment are (i) poor distribution from the back (ii) poor use of the ball from right back when in very good positions (iii) giving the ball away too easily in the middle of the park by misplaced passes, over ambitious passes, playing easy balls to players in worse positions that then puts them under pressure and simply by bad control of the ball (iv) not being able to work the ball through the middle of the pitch (v) not getting players into the box when we are attacking (vi) poor crossing (vii) not being able to hold the ball up in central forward positions. Those weaknesses have been with us all season and I am not seeing us improving on them. The one thing I have seen an improvement on is being tighter at the back which I put down to having the right foot and left foot combination in central defence, Amavi's pace that gets us out of trouble at times and Jedinak adding protection in front of the back four (he is not brilliant but has plugged a hole which Westwood was never strong enough to do).
But despite all those weakness you mentioned, we're still in touch with the play off after a dodgy start. As for suggesting Bruce might buy players for the sake of it, what evidence do you have of that?
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After 5 years of crap football and a mess of appointing 4 different managers, yes I'm glad we're winning games and being competitive again (even if we haven't always played well)...
We've rarely played well, which is the issue for Paul, myself and a few others.
Baby steps, I know. After the complete turd that is the past five years. But with the quality of player we were able to keep in in the summer combined with the financial clout that enabled us to buy some of the best players in this division, we should be more convincing at this level. Even with the well documented weaknesses in certain positions.
Our style of play shouldn't be viewed as an optional extra either; the icing on the cake or something to merely provide additional entertainment. It's weird, but the better a team plays in terms of creating chances and controlling the game in general, the more matches they tend to win.
We are scratching out results at the moment. And there is a place for that too. But it creates a feeling that we can't keep on getting away with it.
The weaknesses I see in the team at the moment are (i) poor distribution from the back (ii) poor use of the ball from right back when in very good positions (iii) giving the ball away too easily in the middle of the park by misplaced passes, over ambitious passes, playing easy balls to players in worse positions that then puts them under pressure and simply by bad control of the ball (iv) not being able to work the ball through the middle of the pitch (v) not getting players into the box when we are attacking (vi) poor crossing (vii) not being able to hold the ball up in central forward positions. Those weaknesses have been with us all season and I am not seeing us improving on them. The one thing I have seen an improvement on is being tighter at the back which I put down to having the right foot and left foot combination in central defence, Amavi's pace that gets us out of trouble at times and Jedinak adding protection in front of the back four (he is not brilliant but has plugged a hole which Westwood was never strong enough to do).
But despite all those weakness you mentioned, we're still in touch with the play off after a dodgy start. As for suggesting Bruce might buy players for the sake of it, what evidence do you have of that?
Improve on some of those weaknesses and we would easily be in the play-off position. Improve on all and we would be pushing for automatic promotion. There is always room for improvement but we seem to have hit a plateau in our improvement.
Quite clearly I have no evidence of Bruce doing that as he hasn't bought anybody yet. Top managers are clearly focused on how to improve their teams but as we have seen for too long at Villa, managers have not addressed which position should be the first to be addressed. From memory, MON's purchase of Young and Carew was probably the last time this happened, other than when we bought Bent.
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But despite all those weakness you mentioned, we're still in touch with the play off after a dodgy start. As for suggesting Bruce might buy players for the sake of it, what evidence do you have of that?
Being in touching distance of the play offs is great and Bruce deserves credit for the results to get us there, no one is denying that. What I'm saying, and think omvf and kevin agree, is that now we're moving into January he needs to address performances because we can't play as badly as we have done recently for the rest of the season if we want to force our way into a chance of promotion. I get that some people are willing to separate results from performances so long as the results keep coming, I understand that view and I can see the value to it but I can't do that. I see performances as a 'guarantee' of getting results and my concern is that we don't seem to have any guarantees right now.
I think there's also some misunderstanding on here of what I mean by performances. I don't expect us to turn into barca, I'm not sure I even want us to but I do want us to play the numbers. I want us to make chances, I want us to have players in the box when we put crosses in, I want us to have the ball in areas of the pitch where teams are scared to put tackles in (especially on Jack who is comfortably the most fouled player in the league).
We are where we are with loads of problems to address, lets start working on some of them and see how much further we can go, we all know (or at least should) that most of this squad is too good to not be challenging for automatic promotion so until our form is consistently top 2-3 in the league we're not reaching our potential.
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But despite all those weakness you mentioned, we're still in touch with the play off after a dodgy start. As for suggesting Bruce might buy players for the sake of it, what evidence do you have of that?
Being in touching distance of the play offs is great and Bruce deserves credit for the results to get us there, no one is denying that. What I'm saying, and think omvf and kevin agree, is that now we're moving into January he needs to address performances because we can't play as badly as we have done recently for the rest of the season if we want to force our way into a chance of promotion. I get that some people are willing to separate results from performances so long as the results keep coming, I understand that view and I can see the value to it but I can't do that. I see performances as a 'guarantee' of getting results and my concern is that we don't seem to have any guarantees right now.
I think there's also some misunderstanding on here of what I mean by performances. I don't expect us to turn into barca, I'm not sure I even want us to but I do want us to play the numbers. I want us to make chances, I want us to have players in the box when we put crosses in, I want us to have the ball in areas of the pitch where teams are scared to put tackles in (especially on Jack who is comfortably the most fouled player in the league).
We are where we are with loads of problems to address, lets start working on some of them and see how much further we can go, we all know (or at least should) that most of this squad is too good to not be challenging for automatic promotion so until our form is consistently top 2-3 in the league we're not reaching our potential.
But Bruce himself has said after some games that we've been lucky. Even the other night, I think he said a winner for us would have been unjust.
We needed points on the board when he came in and we've got them. For me, that was the most important thing going into January. No, we haven't played well in every game, but we played better football under RDM and where did it get him?
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After 5 years of crap football and a mess of appointing 4 different managers, yes I'm glad we're winning games and being competitive again (even if we haven't always played well)...
We've rarely played well, which is the issue for Paul, myself and a few others.
Baby steps, I know. After the complete turd that is the past five years. But with the quality of player we were able to keep in in the summer combined with the financial clout that enabled us to buy some of the best players in this division, we should be more convincing at this level. Even with the well documented weaknesses in certain positions.
Our style of play shouldn't be viewed as an optional extra either; the icing on the cake or something to merely provide additional entertainment. It's weird, but the better a team plays in terms of creating chances and controlling the game in general, the more matches they tend to win.
We are scratching out results at the moment. And there is a place for that too. But it creates a feeling that we can't keep on getting away with it.
The weaknesses I see in the team at the moment are (i) poor distribution from the back (ii) poor use of the ball from right back when in very good positions (iii) giving the ball away too easily in the middle of the park by misplaced passes, over ambitious passes, playing easy balls to players in worse positions that then puts them under pressure and simply by bad control of the ball (iv) not being able to work the ball through the middle of the pitch (v) not getting players into the box when we are attacking (vi) poor crossing (vii) not being able to hold the ball up in central forward positions. Those weaknesses have been with us all season and I am not seeing us improving on them. The one thing I have seen an improvement on is being tighter at the back which I put down to having the right foot and left foot combination in central defence, Amavi's pace that gets us out of trouble at times and Jedinak adding protection in front of the back four (he is not brilliant but has plugged a hole which Westwood was never strong enough to do).
But despite all those weakness you mentioned, we're still in touch with the play off after a dodgy start. As for suggesting Bruce might buy players for the sake of it, what evidence do you have of that?
Improve on some of those weaknesses and we would easily be in the play-off position. Improve on all and we would be pushing for automatic promotion. There is always room for improvement but we seem to have hit a plateau in our improvement.
Quite clearly I have no evidence of Bruce doing that as he hasn't bought anybody yet. Top managers are clearly focused on how to improve their teams but as we have seen for too long at Villa, managers have not addressed which position should be the first to be addressed. From memory, MON's purchase of Young and Carew was probably the last time this happened, other than when we bought Bent.
Asking Bruce to push for automatic promotion was always going to be a tough ask after the start we made.
Someone made a good point elsewhere. Every time time some people looks at the league table and see's us still mid-table, they blame Bruce rather than the start we made.
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But despite all those weakness you mentioned, we're still in touch with the play off after a dodgy start. As for suggesting Bruce might buy players for the sake of it, what evidence do you have of that?
Being in touching distance of the play offs is great and Bruce deserves credit for the results to get us there, no one is denying that. What I'm saying, and think omvf and kevin agree, is that now we're moving into January he needs to address performances because we can't play as badly as we have done recently for the rest of the season if we want to force our way into a chance of promotion. I get that some people are willing to separate results from performances so long as the results keep coming, I understand that view and I can see the value to it but I can't do that. I see performances as a 'guarantee' of getting results and my concern is that we don't seem to have any guarantees right now.
I think there's also some misunderstanding on here of what I mean by performances. I don't expect us to turn into barca, I'm not sure I even want us to but I do want us to play the numbers. I want us to make chances, I want us to have players in the box when we put crosses in, I want us to have the ball in areas of the pitch where teams are scared to put tackles in (especially on Jack who is comfortably the most fouled player in the league).
We are where we are with loads of problems to address, lets start working on some of them and see how much further we can go, we all know (or at least should) that most of this squad is too good to not be challenging for automatic promotion so until our form is consistently top 2-3 in the league we're not reaching our potential.
But Bruce himself has said after some games that we've been lucky. Even the other night, I think he said a winner for us would have been unjust.
We needed points on the board when he came in and we've got them. For me, that was the most important thing going into January. No, we haven't played well in every game, but we played better football under RDM and where did it get him?
Don't you agree though, that we are at a point when performances should be improving as the players have now had half a season to get up to speed with playing with each other. RDM did not have this luxury and everything was on the fly.
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But despite all those weakness you mentioned, we're still in touch with the play off after a dodgy start. As for suggesting Bruce might buy players for the sake of it, what evidence do you have of that?
Being in touching distance of the play offs is great and Bruce deserves credit for the results to get us there, no one is denying that. What I'm saying, and think omvf and kevin agree, is that now we're moving into January he needs to address performances because we can't play as badly as we have done recently for the rest of the season if we want to force our way into a chance of promotion. I get that some people are willing to separate results from performances so long as the results keep coming, I understand that view and I can see the value to it but I can't do that. I see performances as a 'guarantee' of getting results and my concern is that we don't seem to have any guarantees right now.
I think there's also some misunderstanding on here of what I mean by performances. I don't expect us to turn into barca, I'm not sure I even want us to but I do want us to play the numbers. I want us to make chances, I want us to have players in the box when we put crosses in, I want us to have the ball in areas of the pitch where teams are scared to put tackles in (especially on Jack who is comfortably the most fouled player in the league).
We are where we are with loads of problems to address, lets start working on some of them and see how much further we can go, we all know (or at least should) that most of this squad is too good to not be challenging for automatic promotion so until our form is consistently top 2-3 in the league we're not reaching our potential.
But Bruce himself has said after some games that we've been lucky. Even the other night, I think he said a winner for us would have been unjust.
We needed points on the board when he came in and we've got them. For me, that was the most important thing going into January. No, we haven't played well in every game, but we played better football under RDM and where did it get him?
Don't you agree though, that we are at a point when performances should be improving as the players have now had half a season to get up to speed with playing with each other. RDM did not have this luxury and everything was on the fly.
I've already said that we haven't played as well in some games as we should and Bruce will probably tell you that himself. As it is, we're in there with a shout going into the second half of the season and that's really all that mattered when Bruce came in.
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But despite all those weakness you mentioned, we're still in touch with the play off after a dodgy start. As for suggesting Bruce might buy players for the sake of it, what evidence do you have of that?
Being in touching distance of the play offs is great and Bruce deserves credit for the results to get us there, no one is denying that. What I'm saying, and think omvf and kevin agree, is that now we're moving into January he needs to address performances because we can't play as badly as we have done recently for the rest of the season if we want to force our way into a chance of promotion. I get that some people are willing to separate results from performances so long as the results keep coming, I understand that view and I can see the value to it but I can't do that. I see performances as a 'guarantee' of getting results and my concern is that we don't seem to have any guarantees right now.
I think there's also some misunderstanding on here of what I mean by performances. I don't expect us to turn into barca, I'm not sure I even want us to but I do want us to play the numbers. I want us to make chances, I want us to have players in the box when we put crosses in, I want us to have the ball in areas of the pitch where teams are scared to put tackles in (especially on Jack who is comfortably the most fouled player in the league).
We are where we are with loads of problems to address, lets start working on some of them and see how much further we can go, we all know (or at least should) that most of this squad is too good to not be challenging for automatic promotion so until our form is consistently top 2-3 in the league we're not reaching our potential.
But Bruce himself has said after some games that we've been lucky. Even the other night, I think he said a winner for us would have been unjust.
We needed points on the board when he came in and we've got them. For me, that was the most important thing going into January. No, we haven't played well in every game, but we played better football under RDM and where did it get him?
and as is often quoted on here "don't tell me, show me". Him seeing that things aren't going well is a step up from from Lambert but until he starts address the problems (and not all of them had to wait for the transfer window) he's really doing little more than confirming what we can see. It's a start and the results are earning him the time to fix things but they don't stop those things from needing to be fixed.
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But despite all those weakness you mentioned, we're still in touch with the play off after a dodgy start. As for suggesting Bruce might buy players for the sake of it, what evidence do you have of that?
Being in touching distance of the play offs is great and Bruce deserves credit for the results to get us there, no one is denying that. What I'm saying, and think omvf and kevin agree, is that now we're moving into January he needs to address performances because we can't play as badly as we have done recently for the rest of the season if we want to force our way into a chance of promotion. I get that some people are willing to separate results from performances so long as the results keep coming, I understand that view and I can see the value to it but I can't do that. I see performances as a 'guarantee' of getting results and my concern is that we don't seem to have any guarantees right now.
I think there's also some misunderstanding on here of what I mean by performances. I don't expect us to turn into barca, I'm not sure I even want us to but I do want us to play the numbers. I want us to make chances, I want us to have players in the box when we put crosses in, I want us to have the ball in areas of the pitch where teams are scared to put tackles in (especially on Jack who is comfortably the most fouled player in the league).
We are where we are with loads of problems to address, lets start working on some of them and see how much further we can go, we all know (or at least should) that most of this squad is too good to not be challenging for automatic promotion so until our form is consistently top 2-3 in the league we're not reaching our potential.
But Bruce himself has said after some games that we've been lucky. Even the other night, I think he said a winner for us would have been unjust.
We needed points on the board when he came in and we've got them. For me, that was the most important thing going into January. No, we haven't played well in every game, but we played better football under RDM and where did it get him?
and as is often quoted on here "don't tell me, show me". Him seeing that things aren't going well is a step up from from Lambert but until he starts address the problems (and not all of them had to wait for the transfer window) he's really doing little more than confirming what we can see. It's a start and the results are earning him the time to fix things but they don't stop those things from needing to be fixed.
The fact that he knows that we've been lucky in some games is good, like you said. As for the problems he needs addressing, there's not that many of them really. Fine tuning and some more convincing wins is what's needs, along with some new players.
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But despite all those weakness you mentioned, we're still in touch with the play off after a dodgy start. As for suggesting Bruce might buy players for the sake of it, what evidence do you have of that?
Being in touching distance of the play offs is great and Bruce deserves credit for the results to get us there, no one is denying that. What I'm saying, and think omvf and kevin agree, is that now we're moving into January he needs to address performances because we can't play as badly as we have done recently for the rest of the season if we want to force our way into a chance of promotion. I get that some people are willing to separate results from performances so long as the results keep coming, I understand that view and I can see the value to it but I can't do that. I see performances as a 'guarantee' of getting results and my concern is that we don't seem to have any guarantees right now.
I think there's also some misunderstanding on here of what I mean by performances. I don't expect us to turn into barca, I'm not sure I even want us to but I do want us to play the numbers. I want us to make chances, I want us to have players in the box when we put crosses in, I want us to have the ball in areas of the pitch where teams are scared to put tackles in (especially on Jack who is comfortably the most fouled player in the league).
We are where we are with loads of problems to address, lets start working on some of them and see how much further we can go, we all know (or at least should) that most of this squad is too good to not be challenging for automatic promotion so until our form is consistently top 2-3 in the league we're not reaching our potential.
But Bruce himself has said after some games that we've been lucky. Even the other night, I think he said a winner for us would have been unjust.
We needed points on the board when he came in and we've got them. For me, that was the most important thing going into January. No, we haven't played well in every game, but we played better football under RDM and where did it get him?
and as is often quoted on here "don't tell me, show me". Him seeing that things aren't going well is a step up from from Lambert but until he starts address the problems (and not all of them had to wait for the transfer window) he's really doing little more than confirming what we can see. It's a start and the results are earning him the time to fix things but they don't stop those things from needing to be fixed.
The fact that he knows that we've been lucky in some games is good, like you said. As for the problems he needs addressing, there's not that many of them really. Fine tuning and some more convincing wins is what's needs, along with some new players.
i respect your optimism but I listed what I believe to be 6 fundamental weaknesses. My worry is that Bruce only sees it as fine tuning and does not address enough of the issues to get us promoted and have a platform for the PL, only get us to the play-offs. Convincing wins will only come from a vastly improved midfield.
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The fact that he knows that we've been lucky in some games is good, like you said. As for the problems he needs addressing, there's not that many of them really. Fine tuning and some more convincing wins is what's needs, along with some new players.
My feeling is that we're a decent midfielder away from making lot more click, so for example someone who can link up with McCormack and bring him more into the game.
And yes, I know we've spent (seemingly) eternity just one or two players away from breaking out - with the exception of the last few years when we've mostly been 11 players away from breaking out. But we're a long way from playing the worst football ever.
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The fact that he knows that we've been lucky in some games is good, like you said. As for the problems he needs addressing, there's not that many of them really. Fine tuning and some more convincing wins is what's needs, along with some new players.
My feeling is that we're a decent midfielder away from making lot more click, so for example someone who can link up with McCormack and bring him more into the game.
And yes, I know we've spent (seemingly) eternity just one or two players away from breaking out - with the exception of the last few years when we've mostly been 11 players away from breaking out. But we're a long way from playing the worst football ever.
This is the bit that worries me, as a club we've let managers get away with doing very little to improve players by always having the opinion that "we'll fix it in the next window" it's the sentiment that let MON buy defences 2 windows running, that let Lambert buy half a team every summer and let Sherwood and RDM buy an pretty much a new team in the last 2 summers. That turnover is unsustainable.
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Our defence and forward lines are very respectable. The reason we are hard to beat but only grind out positive results by the finest of margins is because our central midfield is woeful. I reckon Mr.Bruce knows this. This time we really are 1-2 marquee signings away from a decent side. I'm excited to see how he gets on.
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Then lets see if we get marquee signings in midfield, Hourihane is the only player we've been linked to who could possibly be classed as that though. Rhodes and James in particular are links that worry me, I hope they're just paper talk.
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Then lets see if we get marquee signings in midfield, Hourihane is the only player we've been linked to who could possibly be classed as that though. Rhodes and James in particular are links that worry me, I hope they're just paper talk.
We've got a manager who has turned our fortunes steadily around. He makes a lot of sense when interviewed. It doesn't sound a lot for a club of our size but after the calamitous few years we've had I'll take it. I accept the fact you have a more discerning approach but to criticise him for things yet to pass is a bit much. You give the indication that you don't like him much.
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Then lets see if we get marquee signings in midfield, Hourihane is the only player we've been linked to who could possibly be classed as that though. Rhodes and James in particular are links that worry me, I hope they're just paper talk.
We've got a manager who has turned our fortunes steadily around. He makes a lot of sense when interviewed. It doesn't sound a lot for a club of our size but after the calamitous few years we've had I'll take it. I accept the fact you have a more discerning approach but to criticise him for things yet to pass is a bit much. You give the indication that you don't like him much.
You do get the impression that some people are waiting for Bruce to fail rather than wanting them to.
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Then lets see if we get marquee signings in midfield, Hourihane is the only player we've been linked to who could possibly be classed as that though. Rhodes and James in particular are links that worry me, I hope they're just paper talk.
We've got a manager who has turned our fortunes steadily around. He makes a lot of sense when interviewed. It doesn't sound a lot for a club of our size but after the calamitous few years we've had I'll take it. I accept the fact you have a more discerning approach but to criticise him for things yet to pass is a bit much. You give the indication that you don't like him much.
That not what I intended rather I just flipped the argument. Your argument was, effectively, that we're not playing well but when he signs a couple of good midfielders we'll be fine. I just countered that by saying what if he doesn't and picking a couple of names from the press that I'd count as being the wrong type of signings (Rhodes because I don't think he's an improvement, James because I don't think he's much cop and both would come in not match fit which doesn't help us fill the Kodjia gap).
Clampy it's not about waiting for him to fail, or wanting him to fail, or disliking him, or anything else like that. It's that I've seen enough of his teams to be concerned that what we're seeing now isn't a temporary style but it's actually what we'll get from him. I can enjoy the results and be relieved that we finally seem to be heading up rather than down but also not particularly enjoy watching us play, those opinions aren't exclusive. I really want to watch games and know, after an hour, that the result is in the bag rather than going into the last half hour praying for a winner/equaliser every week. Just because those prayers are being answered more often than not doesn't mean I can't wish we didn't need to feel that way quite so often.
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Then lets see if we get marquee signings in midfield, Hourihane is the only player we've been linked to who could possibly be classed as that though. Rhodes and James in particular are links that worry me, I hope they're just paper talk.
We've got a manager who has turned our fortunes steadily around. He makes a lot of sense when interviewed. It doesn't sound a lot for a club of our size but after the calamitous few years we've had I'll take it. I accept the fact you have a more discerning approach but to criticise him for things yet to pass is a bit much. You give the indication that you don't like him much.
That not what I intended rather I just flipped the argument. Your argument was, effectively, that we're not playing well but when he signs a couple of good midfielders we'll be fine. I just countered that by saying what if he doesn't and picking a couple of names from the press that I'd count as being the wrong type of signings (Rhodes because I don't think he's an improvement, James because I don't think he's much cop and both would come in not match fit which doesn't help us fill the Kodjia gap).
Clampy it's not about waiting for him to fail, or wanting him to fail, or disliking him, or anything else like that. It's that I've seen enough of his teams to be concerned that what we're seeing now isn't a temporary style but it's actually what we'll get from him. I can enjoy the results and be relieved that we finally seem to be heading up rather than down but also not particularly enjoy watching us play, those opinions aren't exclusive. I really want to watch games and know, after an hour, that the result is in the bag rather than going into the last half hour praying for a winner/equaliser every week. Just because those prayers are being answered more often than not doesn't mean I can't wish we didn't need to feel that way quite so often.
I can only reiterate my belief that we are 1-2 mobile, dynamic central midfielders away from a much more cohesive side. I know our stock has fallen of late but Mr.Bruce has never previously managed a side of our size, with our expectations. He has excelled iin taking teams to promotion or keeping smaller clubs punching above their weight. To achieve this he's done whatever
it takes. I am guessing he knows in time we'll want a return to a level commensurate with a club of our stature but for the time at least he has to get us moving forward. He's done that.