Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: flybo on November 21, 2016, 08:05:50 PM
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All over Facebook that today 21st Nov is our clubs birthday.
Who decided on this date?
And is there anything to back it up?
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If in doubt use Wikipedia and then make it up
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It was tied in with that 140th anniversary thing two years ago. It's a nice story but there's no evidence to suggest there was a gaslight meeting at any time, least of all 21st November 1874.
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In the post-truth era does it matter?
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I'd sooner any date other than this. 21 November 1974 is the date of the pub bombings.
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What difference does the truth make ... after all according to Sky football wasnt even invented until 1992
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I heard it was at 7.30 PM. That's why all evening games used to kick off at 7.30 :D
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Calling Trevor Fisher to the thread! I am sure he has the definitive answer!
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In the post-truth era does it matter?
Very good.
As others have said, just make it up. If enough people believe you it becomes the truth anyway.
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In the post-truth era does it matter?
Very good.
As others have said, just make it up. If enough people believe you it becomes the truth anyway.
People have been bull-shitting for years and getting away with it.
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In the post-truth era does it matter?
Very good.
As others have said, just make it up. If enough people believe you it becomes the truth anyway.
People have been bull-shitting for years and getting away with it.
aka Twitter
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I doubt people would be standing under gaslights in November when it's freezing, wouldn't they just go to somebody's house or a local pub?
Sometime around when the cricket season finished seems more likely as all of the players would've been in one place.
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I doubt people would be standing under gaslights in November when it's freezing, wouldn't they just go to somebody's house or a local pub?
Sometime around when the cricket season finished seems more likely as all of the players would've been in one place.
Or perhaps discuss it with each other during the match they were watching?
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I doubt people would be standing under gaslights in November when it's freezing, wouldn't they just go to somebody's house or a local pub?
Sometime around when the cricket season finished seems more likely as all of the players would've been in one place.
They wouldn't have gone to a pub as they were a Methodist group and most lived in lodgings so that was unlikely as well. Most likely they met at a bible classs or similar.
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This time of year for founding Aston Villa FC seems to fit with the first matches being played in January 1875 against Aston Unity FC, by a team from Aston Villa cricket club. A month or so to get fit, run off the Christmas turkey and then; new year, new sport, new team!
They could have stood under the nearest lamp to write down the names of everybody interested or who they were going to recruit, after watching a game in the park on their way to bible class.
'That looks good, why don't we do it and play other teams like Aston Unity?'
'It would keep us fit'
' And no broken fingers like rugby'
' Let's do it. Who's in? I'll make a list. Oooh, it's dark early on, I can't see.'
'There's a lamppost over there...'
'Make sure Jack's down as captain or he won't get the cocoa in'
It's too good a story not to have some truth in it.
1874. Make it so.
( Historical bits from my Aston Villa Miscellany)
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It's likely to have been sometime from September onwards given that it was a bunch of cricketers looking for something to do in the winter. So, it is more likely that it would have been decided upon at the end of a season with the onset of winter, rather than at the beginning of the cricket season. Not giving any credence to 21st November but I don't think it'd be too far off. I could as easily say September 4th 1874 and there would be equally no concrete proof.
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They were still involved in cricket matches up to the end of September 1874 so it would have to be in October, early November ,December or early January 1875.
Couldn't be from 15th November to the end of November as there was a big gas explosion and leakage in Villa Road which affected the area and it took some time to sort that one out. That is,of course, if you believe the story about gas lamps and "meeting in conference" to discuss what to do etc etc which I don't by the way. John "Jack" Hughes is down in print as saying "the club was formed in 1875" which may or not be true. We may well find the definitive answer in time, new information will become available to our club researchers as time moves on.
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There would have to be a meeting of some kind 'in conference', because otherwise, a single man in acacia avenue decided, ' I think I'll form Aston Villa'.
That is far more unlikely than a bunch of lads (under or near a street lamp) forming a team in Oct, Nov or December.
The captain might well have recorded the match when he thought they got serious, a few months later.
I look forward to more findings about the origins of our brilliant and inspirational club.
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More importantly, were they an honest bunch of lads?
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Sorry, lahds.
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I doubt people would be standing under gaslights in November when it's freezing, wouldn't they just go to somebody's house or a local pub?
Sometime around when the cricket season finished seems more likely as all of the players would've been in one place.
They wouldn't have gone to a pub as they were a Methodist group and most lived in lodgings so that was unlikely as well. Most likely they met at a bible classs or similar.
I thought the meeting was under gaslight... ie, outside?
I'm sure one of the Villa books I've got had a chapter called "From Gaslight to Glory".
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Well if it was winter I'd be surprised if they thought standing around on a cold street would have been a good idea. Unless the central heating was broken in the British Legion, I guess.
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Sorry, lahds.
:)
A nod to the old Victorian Astonian accent there. Well done!
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I doubt people would be standing under gaslights in November when it's freezing, wouldn't they just go to somebody's house or a local pub?
Sometime around when the cricket season finished seems more likely as all of the players would've been in one place.
They wouldn't have gone to a pub as they were a Methodist group and most lived in lodgings so that was unlikely as well. Most likely they met at a bible classs or similar.
I thought the meeting was under gaslight... ie, outside?
I'm sure one of the Villa books I've got had a chapter called "From Gaslight to Glory".
I wouldn't take much notice of Villa books. They make most of it up.
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ITS ARE BERTHDAY!!!
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I doubt people would be standing under gaslights in November when it's freezing, wouldn't they just go to somebody's house or a local pub?
Sometime around when the cricket season finished seems more likely as all of the players would've been in one place.
They wouldn't have gone to a pub as they were a Methodist group and most lived in lodgings so that was unlikely as well. Most likely they met at a bible classs or similar.
I thought the meeting was under gaslight... ie, outside?
I'm sure one of the Villa books I've got had a chapter called "From Gaslight to Glory".
I wouldn't take much notice of Villa books. They make most of it up.
Someone seems to have taken notice of them. There are gaslights by the Holte End!
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Overall, I think we should abandon the pretence that November 21st is our birthday. If the evidence was incontrovertible, then so be it. But it is flimsy at best.
I'd rather not celebrate our 150th birthday on the same day we mourn the 50th anniversary of the Birmingham Pub Bombings and I'd rather we didn't share a birthday with Fabian fucking Delph.
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This is the earliest description of our formation that I have (look under the sub heading – The Winning Team, and as a Brucie Bonus - the match report of our first FA Cup win).
No mention of Lampposts!
(http://i.imgur.com/lsNbVHW.jpg)