Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Villa Memories => Topic started by: castlefields_villan on August 23, 2016, 11:15:01 AM

Title: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: castlefields_villan on August 23, 2016, 11:15:01 AM
I know this has been discussed on here before, but I was chatting to a friend about this game a few days ago.

I seem to remember for an evening game, played in early August, we had a decent attendance of just under 30,000.  I remember sitting in the Trinity Road Enclosure and seeing so many players of years gone by.  My main memories are Brian Clough walking along the touchline and getting quite a reception from those near me and Ray Graydon missing two first half penalties and almost being "booed" by the Holte End.

Anybody else care to share in any memories of this evening/game ?
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: Rudy65 on August 23, 2016, 11:27:44 AM
I was 9. The match was played to celebrate our centenary

Gutted that my favourite player, RG missed two penalties. David Harvey saved one and the other went over the bar, as I recall

Leeds were reigning league champs and with Clough having just joined, their visit was a real attraction for success starved villa fans.

Villa scored in injury time and the rumour was the ref played over time to allow us to score.
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - Centenary Celebration 1974
Post by: castlefields_villan on August 23, 2016, 11:32:33 AM
I was 9. The match was played to celebrate our centenary

Gutted that my favourite player, RG missed two penalties. David Harvey saved one and the other went over the bar, as I recall

Leeds were reigning league champs and with Clough having just joined, their visit was a real attraction for success starved villa fans.

Villa scored in injury time and the rumour was the ref played over time to allow us to score.

Yes, I seem to remember the two penalties going how you said, JPA is the only other player I can think of who'se missed two penalties in the same game.  I remember we got a late consolation, but don't remember it being in injury time.  Although we lost, it was quite an occasion though.
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on August 23, 2016, 01:06:03 PM
Wasn't it one of Clough's only wins as manager of Leeds?
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: wittonwarrior on August 23, 2016, 08:31:06 PM
Have heard a number of times that Graydon was not a fans favourite for long periods of his tenure at Villa Park.  Not sure on that one, he was certainly one of my favourites.

On the other hand I could never quite understand how the likes Chico was highly rated by the fans.  Certainly Saunders never quite saw him as a top division player.  Am I being unfair?
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: Rudy65 on August 23, 2016, 08:36:53 PM
Have heard a number of times that Graydon was not a fans favourite for long periods of his tenure at Villa Park.  Not sure on that one, he was certainly one of my favourites.

On the other hand I could never quite understand how the likes Chico was highly rated by the fans.  Certainly Saunders never quite saw him as a top division player.  Am I being unfair?
Graydon was my favourite player and from memory well loved by us all. Given his high scoring rate, winner in the 75 LC, he is unlucky not to be compared to some of other heroes of that era, Little, Gray etc.

Hamiltion was on his last legs when Ron arrived in 74 although he stuck around for another 2 or 3 seasons. Hamilton was not a hard working player which wouldnt have endeared him to Ron. That and the long hair!
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: wittonwarrior on August 23, 2016, 08:42:20 PM
Rudy,

I would agree that Brian Little appears to get the highest of ratings from most Villa fans. 

He scored  big goals in big  matches so perhaps  deserved, he also had  some shocking outings like Stoke Away just after the Rangers friendly - Gray was injured and he had  lead  in his boots all afternoon.  We lost 1-0, missed a penalty on what was Shilton's debut for the clayheads.  Was going to say he was a poor man's player to someone else but I won't otherwise would get barred off his site xxx (even though I am sure many others probably agree).
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: martin o`who?? on August 24, 2016, 07:57:12 AM
Have heard a number of times that Graydon was not a fans favourite for long periods of his tenure at Villa Park.  Not sure on that one, he was certainly one of my favourites.

On the other hand I could never quite understand how the likes Chico was highly rated by the fans.  Certainly Saunders never quite saw him as a top division player.  Am I being unfair?
He was excellent in our 74-75 promotion season, and also scored the winner v Norwich in the 1975 League cup final (albeit from a rebound from a penalty). but did seem to find the step up to the "First Division" as it was called back then a bit too much, i remember a pre-season friendly where he shot wildly over the bar to jeers of "What the F******g hell was that" from the Holte, a bit unkind i thought at the time.
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: castlefields_villan on August 24, 2016, 10:01:24 AM
Yes, you're right, he was a little under rated but he was excellent in our 1974-75 surge back to the big time and he'd been good in the three years before that.  He also supplied the cross for Andy Gray's winning goal against Man Utd in November 1976.  That 76-77 would've been his last season with us - anyone know how many games he played that season ? I'd guess it was over 30.
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 24, 2016, 10:08:59 AM
Have heard a number of times that Graydon was not a fans favourite for long periods of his tenure at Villa Park.  Not sure on that one, he was certainly one of my favourites.

On the other hand I could never quite understand how the likes Chico was highly rated by the fans.  Certainly Saunders never quite saw him as a top division player.  Am I being unfair?
He was excellent in our 74-75 promotion season, and also scored the winner v Norwich in the 1975 League cup final (albeit from a rebound from a penalty). but did seem to find the step up to the "First Division" as it was called back then a bit too much, i remember a pre-season friendly where he shot wildly over the bar to jeers of "What the F******g hell was that" from the Holte, a bit unkind i thought at the time.

He was perfectly good until he was injured playing in a local derby. You'll never guess the opposition.
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: castlefields_villan on August 24, 2016, 10:42:24 AM
Have heard a number of times that Graydon was not a fans favourite for long periods of his tenure at Villa Park.  Not sure on that one, he was certainly one of my favourites.

On the other hand I could never quite understand how the likes Chico was highly rated by the fans.  Certainly Saunders never quite saw him as a top division player.  Am I being unfair?
He was excellent in our 74-75 promotion season, and also scored the winner v Norwich in the 1975 League cup final (albeit from a rebound from a penalty). but did seem to find the step up to the "First Division" as it was called back then a bit too much, i remember a pre-season friendly where he shot wildly over the bar to jeers of "What the F******g hell was that" from the Holte, a bit unkind i thought at the time.

He was perfectly good until he was injured playing in a local derby. You'll never guess the opposition.
[/b]

I don't remember that Dave, which is unusual for me as I normally remember anything that happened in the 1970s a lot better than what happened yesterday.

I seem to remember in 1976-77 we played Blues at home in September and away in May, and the Albion away in October/November and at home in May.  So I doubt it would've happened in either of the games at the end of the season ?
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on August 24, 2016, 12:30:09 PM
...did seem to find the step up to the "First Division" as it was called back then a bit too much...

Check Ray Graydons career stats here, a consistent 1 goal every 3 games scorer across all three divisions.

http://www.sporting-heroes.net/football/aston-villa-fc/ray-graydon-9866/league-appearances_a14892/



Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: martin o`who?? on August 24, 2016, 01:52:37 PM
I was 9. The match was played to celebrate our centenary

Gutted that my favourite player, RG missed two penalties. David Harvey saved one and the other went over the bar, as I recall

Leeds were reigning league champs and with Clough having just joined, their visit was a real attraction for success starved villa fans.

Villa scored in injury time and the rumour was the ref played over time to allow us to score.
Wasn't the programme (which contained a very high quality re-print of our first ever programme) voted programme of the season or somesuch, it was very good for its day.
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: castlefields_villan on August 24, 2016, 02:50:32 PM
I was 9. The match was played to celebrate our centenary

Gutted that my favourite player, RG missed two penalties. David Harvey saved one and the other went over the bar, as I recall

Leeds were reigning league champs and with Clough having just joined, their visit was a real attraction for success starved villa fans.

Villa scored in injury time and the rumour was the ref played over time to allow us to score.
Wasn't the programme (which contained a very high quality re-print of our first ever programme) voted programme of the season or somesuch, it was very good for its day.
[/b]

Yes, I remember that and I must have a couple of copies of it in the garage (where all my 30 years of Villa programmes are stored in a box).  I used to buy 2 programmes for each home game back in the day !
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: Pat McMahon on August 24, 2016, 05:46:11 PM
Have heard a number of times that Graydon was not a fans favourite for long periods of his tenure at Villa Park.  Not sure on that one, he was certainly one of my favourites.

On the other hand I could never quite understand how the likes Chico was highly rated by the fans.  Certainly Saunders never quite saw him as a top division player.  Am I being unfair?
He was excellent in our 74-75 promotion season, and also scored the winner v Norwich in the 1975 League cup final (albeit from a rebound from a penalty). but did seem to find the step up to the "First Division" as it was called back then a bit too much, i remember a pre-season friendly where he shot wildly over the bar to jeers of "What the F******g hell was that" from the Holte, a bit unkind i thought at the time.

He was perfectly good until he was injured playing in a local derby. You'll never guess the opposition.

I didn't go to that game but my dad did- in the Brummie Rd with Albion neighbours. He came back a bit pissed and angry - was it Cantello who fouled him (not generally a dirty player IIRC)?
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: Rudy65 on August 24, 2016, 07:39:53 PM
...did seem to find the step up to the "First Division" as it was called back then a bit too much...

Check Ray Graydons career stats here, a consistent 1 goal every 3 games scorer across all three divisions.

http://www.sporting-heroes.net/football/aston-villa-fc/ray-graydon-9866/league-appearances_a14892/

Good stats. Looks like his 12 goals in 75/76 was a big reason why we didnt get relegated
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: dave shelley on August 24, 2016, 07:59:11 PM
Ray Gradon was a perfect fit for Aston Villa and vice versa.  A great servant of the club, and  enjoyable to watch.  He owes us nothing.  A player that was exciting to watch as he got the ball and barreled goalwards.  Scored some fabulous goals and always gave 100%, with and ability to beat his man and conclude with a good cross.  I wish we had his like today.
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: four fornicholl on August 24, 2016, 08:11:06 PM
Ray Graydon cemented my wavering allegiance in the cup final of 75, I was only 8 but on that day the deal was done.
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: wittonwarrior on August 24, 2016, 08:37:07 PM
I think the way he slotted in for the 2nd replay says it all.  He was not a typical wide player he used to  love to use the width of the pitch.  Pity he was in his swansong years when we got promoted back to Division 1. 
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: steamer on August 25, 2016, 09:49:00 PM
One of my ever favourites.
I could not understand at the time why so many  fans would slag off Graydon.
O.K he was not the toughest of tacklers and would not jump into a last ditch tackle.
But as many have said his goals, crosses, were indispensable in our road back to the 1st Division.
1st season back ., I think (without checking) he scored 15 goals.
I was behind the goal at Wembley when he controlled the rebound and slotted the winner home.
Melvin, from the Holte enders in the sky and I and hugged danced together (nice one Melv)
Deserves a place in our Hall of Memory.
 
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: Pete on August 26, 2016, 12:40:06 PM
One of my ever favourites.
I could not understand at the time why so many  fans would slag off Graydon.
O.K he was not the toughest of tacklers and would not jump into a last ditch tackle.
But as many have said his goals, crosses, were indispensable in our road back to the 1st Division.
1st season back ., I think (without checking) he scored 15 goals.
I was behind the goal at Wembley when he controlled the rebound and slotted the winner home.
Melvin, from the Holte enders in the sky and I and hugged danced together (nice one Melv)
Deserves a place in our Hall of Memory.
 

First season back he was our top scorer, 12 league goals. He also scored our first ever goal in European competition I think, against Antwerp.
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on August 26, 2016, 03:02:21 PM
One of my ever favourites.
I could not understand at the time why so many  fans would slag off Graydon.
O.K he was not the toughest of tacklers and would not jump into a last ditch tackle.
But as many have said his goals, crosses, were indispensable in our road back to the 1st Division.
1st season back ., I think (without checking) he scored 15 goals.
I was behind the goal at Wembley when he controlled the rebound and slotted the winner home.
Melvin, from the Holte enders in the sky and I and hugged danced together (nice one Melv)
Deserves a place in our Hall of Memory.
 

First season back he was our top scorer, 12 league goals. He also scored our first ever goal in European competition I think, against Antwerp.

He did score our goal in Antwerp. Happy memories of that first trip watching us in Europe getting the old Dover- Ostend ferry, even if the tie was as good as over by half time in the 1st leg. I've got half a dozen copies of the big red and white programme for the game.

(http://cache1.asset-cache.net/gc/517980912-aston-villa-players-an-officials-leaving-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=X7WJLa88Cweo9HktRLaNXtPReKQuHPHr9TRPGZpxjss%2Bg%2BrhGvMMpPQ6QsJ%2FNqLjVZjem%2B5PzjEKa%2FTDTwpG%2Bw%3D%3D)
 
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on August 26, 2016, 09:44:41 PM
Who is the old fella next to Ron..I've seen him in quite a few pictures.
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 26, 2016, 09:49:08 PM
Who is the old fella next to Ron..I've seen him in quite a few pictures.

Pop Ward. He was a bit of a lucky mascot/confidante for the team. It's the one on his right I haven't got a clue about. 
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: MorrisNielson on September 10, 2016, 09:43:50 PM
Here’s a couple of match reports to jog the memory
(http://i.imgur.com/ZFpbnRa.jpg)
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: b23 on September 10, 2016, 10:15:42 PM
Trevor Cherry gave me his sock tabs after this game.
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: Jon Crofts on September 19, 2016, 05:33:44 PM
I went to this game, there was indeed a reprint in the programme of our first ever programme versus Blackburn Rovers in 1906.

I seem to remember Ron Saunders parading the Manager Of The Year award before the game?  I could be wrong!
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: Godfrey Brian on September 19, 2016, 08:30:02 PM
Who is the old fella next to Ron..I've seen him in quite a few pictures.

Pop Ward. He was a bit of a lucky mascot/confidante for the team. It's the one on his right I haven't got a clue about.

I think the guy on the extreme right of the photo may be Walter Cowans (Sid's old man) who was kit man for some time.
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: castlefields_villan on September 20, 2016, 09:27:07 AM
I went to this game, there was indeed a reprint in the programme of our first ever programme versus Blackburn Rovers in 1906.

I seem to remember Ron Saunders parading the Manager Of The Year award before the game?  I could be wrong!
[/b]

Didn't we play Leeds in the first game of the following season (back in the first division) I thought Ron was manager of the year for 1974-75, so would it have been this game ?
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: Rioch is King on September 20, 2016, 10:04:48 AM
Going back to players who were favorites with the fans… I reckon a lot of it was down to how they looked. Chico Hamilton, Willie Anderson, Pat McMahon and Brian Little all looked pretty cool (in a  Beatles/George Best kind of way) so the younger fans, like myself, cut them a lot of slack because they looked the ticket. Ray Graydon - who was a fine player and perhaps as instrumental in our resurgence as any of the aforementioned looked a bit like someones dad or uncle so he didn't get the adoration of the youngsters. 
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: castlefields_villan on September 20, 2016, 11:04:26 AM
Going back to players who were favorites with the fans… I reckon a lot of it was down to how they looked. Chico Hamilton, Willie Anderson, Pat McMahon and Brian Little all looked pretty cool (in a  Beatles/George Best kind of way) so the younger fans, like myself, cut them a lot of slack because they looked the ticket. Ray Graydon - who was a fine player and perhaps as instrumental in our resurgence as any of the aforementioned looked a bit like someones dad or uncle so he didn't get the adoration of the youngsters.

Spot on Bruce.
Title: Re: Villa v (Brian Clough's) Leeds - 1974
Post by: Jon Crofts on September 20, 2016, 04:46:03 PM
I went to this game, there was indeed a reprint in the programme of our first ever programme versus Blackburn Rovers in 1906.

I seem to remember Ron Saunders parading the Manager Of The Year award before the game?  I could be wrong!
[/b]

Didn't we play Leeds in the first game of the following season (back in the first division) I thought Ron was manager of the year for 1974-75, so would it have been this game ?

You're right it was the following season.
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