Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: thegreatdane on June 09, 2016, 03:14:40 PM

Title: Nathan Baker?
Post by: thegreatdane on June 09, 2016, 03:14:40 PM
I would personally have him back next season starting alongside who ... not sure.

What is everyone else's opinion, any other loan players you would want back featuring? Gardner?
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Clark W Griswold on June 09, 2016, 03:39:33 PM
Fuck that.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Phil from the upper holte on June 09, 2016, 03:44:54 PM
Fucking crap
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: aj2k77 on June 09, 2016, 04:07:18 PM
He's shit.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: ChicagoLion on June 09, 2016, 04:12:23 PM
I like him
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: ADVILLAFAN on June 09, 2016, 04:14:25 PM
He gives his all, but I don't think he's really good enough. Don't think he exactly shone for Bristol City last season.

Would give Gardner a go though.

Think Robinson struggled to make too much of an impact at Preston last year either.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: arnie66 on June 09, 2016, 04:14:51 PM
The Bristol City fans down here really rated him this season  - just sayin !!
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Dave P on June 09, 2016, 04:25:25 PM
I would welcome Baker back but its a big decision to who he would play with if he was back in favour.  Clark would be the obvious candidate but two left footers spells disaster.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: in exile on June 09, 2016, 04:28:07 PM
Would he want to come back or will he seek another loan move?
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Whiney MacWhineface on June 09, 2016, 04:33:21 PM
The Bristol City fans down here really rated him this season  - just sayin !!

My Brother-in-Law is a City fan and he tells me that he and all his mates loved him, thought he was mostly excellent, with the odd brain-fade...
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: KevinGage on June 09, 2016, 05:02:46 PM
He's not the Great White Hope, but he's not on the shit list either.

Baker, Gardner, Clark and Steer should all have a part to play next season. Though not necessarily guaranteed starters.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: andyh on June 09, 2016, 05:16:45 PM
I'd rather play him then either of those ****** Lescott and Richards.
Mind you, I'd rather play any one than them two.

Baker would provide half decent cover if he comes back. Probably just good enough in short bursts, until he invariably gets injured.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Leicester_Villian on June 09, 2016, 05:17:20 PM
I believe Baker would be fine either as first choice or back up in the Championship ....it is his level ...he proved this last year ....how many knockers saw him play?

It amazes me how many people don't rate Baker and yet Gardner who few will have seen much of is the saviour ......

Whilst I hope Gardner proves to be a hit so far he has not done it in a Villa shirt and at Forest from what I can gather did well but was nothing special
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: West Derby Villan on June 09, 2016, 05:26:59 PM
I would bring Baker back as back up at least. At least he is an honest defender, something that we were sadly missing last season. I realise he's reckless but he doesn't hide and gives his all, all of the time.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: OCD on June 09, 2016, 05:30:56 PM
It's probably a question of Baker or Clark but not both. If Clark has a release clause and there's interest then Baker will be back and he's probably fine as a first-teamer at this level and squad member in the Premier.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Zouch Villa on June 09, 2016, 05:34:28 PM
I would bring him back. I know he was prone to the occasional brain fade, but I'd much rather see him line up than Lescott or Richards, and at least he'd keep the beard quota up in the team.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: garyshawsknee on June 09, 2016, 05:35:59 PM
He certainly looks like a Championship player with the giant beard and 30s barrow boy haircut, probably has a sleeve tattoo as well. Would do a job at that level where a player can make the odd mistake and get away with it.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on June 09, 2016, 05:36:31 PM
Don't need him. We can spend some of the £50m war chest on someone better.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Witton Warrior on June 09, 2016, 05:39:33 PM
We could play the "when will Nathan Baker be stretchered off with an apparently life-threatening injury" game again!
His madcap head-to-boot/ball/block with me face lunacy made me wince...
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: West Derby Villan on June 09, 2016, 05:42:45 PM
We could play the "when will Nathan Baker be stretchered off with an apparently life-threatening injury" game again!
His madcap head-to-boot/ball/block with me face lunacy made me wince...

I particularly enjoyed that game, thank you very much
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: pooligan on June 09, 2016, 06:08:05 PM
In my book not good enough and injury prone as well .Only Villa could have given him a 4 year contract
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: GordonCowansisthegreatest on June 09, 2016, 06:21:27 PM
You'd sooner see him walk away on a free then?
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: paul_e on June 09, 2016, 06:27:06 PM
No other club in history has ever given one of their youth products who has played nearly a 100 games a long contract to see if the stability helps him settle, it's never been done, we're literally the only club that could have done it ...
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Mister E on June 09, 2016, 06:43:35 PM
Not a big fan of our Nath, but I'd keep for another season to see whether he has learned ought from his time in Bristol.
Gardner? - really not sure.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Phil from the upper holte on June 09, 2016, 07:00:22 PM
He's also made of glass. Gives the ball away too much
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Steve67 on June 09, 2016, 10:30:53 PM
He gives his all. That's the only positive though. He's a big bloke and should dominate much more for his size. Tactically unaware, loses his man too often, goes to ground too often. Championship player at best and can be relied on, like Clark, to make at least one major fuck up per game.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: manic-road on June 09, 2016, 10:41:29 PM
I'd keep him, I honestly don't think he's as poor as some people say.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: tomd2103 on June 09, 2016, 11:55:42 PM
In my book not good enough and injury prone as well .Only Villa could have given him a 4 year contract

Agree. Sell to Bristol City if they want him and promote Toner to back up.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: adrenachrome on June 10, 2016, 12:46:28 AM
He has the thunderous tackle in his locker, which can get the team and the crowd going at Villa Park, where we seem to like that class of thing.

I remain convinced, and I know I am in a tiny minority, that the kamikaze aerial challenges were at the behest of TSM2. If I had he energy and determination of some of our younger posters, I would quote Lambore's press interview and tie it up with Baker's more infelicitous interventions.

I think he could be useful if coached correctly and used when necessary.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: West Derby Villan on June 10, 2016, 12:52:20 AM
He gives his all. That's the only positive though. He's a big bloke and should dominate much more for his size. Tactically unaware, loses his man too often, goes to ground too often. Championship player at best and can be relied on, like Clark, to make at least one major fuck up per game.


Agree championship player.......
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: tomd2103 on June 10, 2016, 01:44:27 AM
He has the thunderous tackle in his locker, which can get the team and the crowd going at Villa Park, where we seem to like that class of thing.

I remain convinced, and I know I am in a tiny minority, that the kamikaze aerial challenges were at the behest of TSM2. If I had he energy and determination of some of our younger posters, I would quote Lambore's press interview and tie it up with Baker's more infelicitous interventions.

I think he could be useful if coached correctly and used when necessary.

His thunderous tackles are also red cards waiting to happen.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: KevinGage on June 10, 2016, 02:39:33 AM
He has the thunderous tackle in his locker, which can get the team and the crowd going at Villa Park, where we seem to like that class of thing.

Aside from a goal, a thunderous tackle is the best thing in football.

Fuck off Platini.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: villadelph on June 10, 2016, 03:01:35 AM
I like him and think he can help in the Championship if called upon. Aside from the own goals, head injuries and red cards he's a pretty good defender.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: PaulTheVillan on June 10, 2016, 06:06:57 AM
He's no worse than any others we've got. They've all got huge mistakes in them. Ideally we'd sign a whole new back 4 and goal keeper.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: brian green on June 10, 2016, 07:39:49 AM
I like him.  I like brave players.  He has two massive advantages.  He is not Lescott and he is not Richards.  If I have got to watch us lose, I would sooner watch players who are not good enough than players who have ability but don't  give a shit.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: passitsideways on June 10, 2016, 07:54:38 AM
He fits in the Westwood/Clark/Gil category for me - actively look for an upgrade, sell if we get a good offer, but no point giving him away cheaply (unless we really are splashing the cash on really good replacements), and no reason to be extremely upset if he's still around as cover come August.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: mattjpa on June 10, 2016, 08:11:50 AM
I think his recent drop in stock has been a symptom of the way the club has fallen from grace. I dont think breaking into the first team during the worst period in our recent history has helped and I think given a chance to play when we are on an upward curve would do him good.
Fuck ups can be coached out of players, I hate to say it but you only have to look at what a good defensive coach can do for a centreback - Look at what Pulis did for Shawcross previously or for Jonny Evans at West Brom. Look at what Big Sam did for Younes Kaboul last season, the guy was absolutely immense in their run in.

For me, lets give him a season under Steve Clarke and see what happens. If he doesnt develop then send him packing next summer. What would we get for him now? 1, maybe 2m? Hardly worth it. Keep
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Rioch is King on June 10, 2016, 08:15:20 AM
Like him. Really hope he has a long successful career with us
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Hookeysmith on June 10, 2016, 08:41:50 AM
Quote
If I have got to watch us lose, I would sooner watch players who are not good enough than players who have ability but don't  give a shit.

100% this
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Clampy on June 10, 2016, 08:53:27 AM
I like him as well, he'll be fine for the championship.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: VicMackey on June 10, 2016, 09:00:13 AM
He's a championship player.  We're a championship team.  We can't be too precious about this, that's our situation now - I think he could do a good job this season.  Capable of the odd fuck up sure but I'd prefer a committed Baker to a half-asleep Lescott.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: oldtimernow on June 10, 2016, 09:06:53 AM
I like him.  I like brave players.  He has two massive advantages.  He is not Lescott and he is not Richards.  If I have got to watch us lose, I would sooner watch players who are not good enough than players who have ability but don't  give a shit.

Agree with this.   Keep and get rid of Lescott and Richards who had more cock-ups in their cupboards.


Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: paul_e on June 10, 2016, 09:17:23 AM
I think I agree with Matt, if we were in the prem I'd probably say let him go but at this level I think he's worth keeping at will do a good enough job to save us having to replace too many in the squad.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: not3bad on June 10, 2016, 09:19:28 AM
Seems a decent championship player and was popular at Bristol, and as people have pointed out he's brave to a fault. It's a yes from me.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: peter w on June 10, 2016, 09:22:06 AM
if we play against any teams with a big bloke up front and who lump the ball up to him, he'll be pretty ideal. If we are looking to develop a footballing culture then he won't fit in.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: chrisw1 on June 10, 2016, 09:23:30 AM
I think his recent drop in stock has been a symptom of the way the club has fallen from grace. I dont think breaking into the first team during the worst period in our recent history has helped and I think given a chance to play when we are on an upward curve would do him good.
Fuck ups can be coached out of players, I hate to say it but you only have to look at what a good defensive coach can do for a centreback - Look at what Pulis did for Shawcross previously or for Jonny Evans at West Brom. Look at what Big Sam did for Younes Kaboul last season, the guy was absolutely immense in their run in.

For me, lets give him a season under Steve Clarke and see what happens. If he doesnt develop then send him packing next summer. What would we get for him now? 1, maybe 2m? Hardly worth it. Keep

very sensible.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Duncan Shaw on June 10, 2016, 09:27:15 AM
I think his recent drop in stock has been a symptom of the way the club has fallen from grace. I dont think breaking into the first team during the worst period in our recent history has helped and I think given a chance to play when we are on an upward curve would do him good.
Fuck ups can be coached out of players, I hate to say it but you only have to look at what a good defensive coach can do for a centreback - Look at what Pulis did for Shawcross previously or for Jonny Evans at West Brom. Look at what Big Sam did for Younes Kaboul last season, the guy was absolutely immense in their run in.

For me, lets give him a season under Steve Clarke and see what happens. If he doesnt develop then send him packing next summer. What would we get for him now? 1, maybe 2m? Hardly worth it. Keep

very sensible.
I agree.
This also intrigues me as to what Big Sam will do with Richards when he (inevitably) buys him this summer.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: thegreatdane on June 10, 2016, 09:51:29 AM
He's no worse than any others we've got. They've all got huge mistakes in them. Ideally we'd sign a whole new back 4 and goal keeper.

Amavi?
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: not3bad on June 10, 2016, 03:35:49 PM
He's no worse than any others we've got. They've all got huge mistakes in them. Ideally we'd sign a whole new back 4 and goal keeper.

Amavi?

He seems great though he didn't play enough games for us to know for sure.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Toronto Villa on June 10, 2016, 03:55:38 PM
Nathan Baker is a Championship level defender so he'll be just fine for us next season. He has every attribute that you want as a central defender in the PL aside from the intelligence required to be a regular starter at that level. But like one or two others in our squad they will fit in fine against other Championship players. We just cannot accommodate them when we go back up.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Chris Smith on June 10, 2016, 04:43:49 PM
My problem with Baker is that he is a reactive defender and his crowd pleasing thumping tackles are often as a result of him being caught out in the first place. Maybe he will cope better against lesser players but I would prefer not to have to find out.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Villafirst on June 10, 2016, 08:55:52 PM
Not good enough. If Xia has £50M to spend, the likes of Baker aren't good enough. We need to aim a lot higher with quality signings.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: mr underhill on June 11, 2016, 01:32:08 PM
I agree, the defence needs a complete makeover
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Steve67 on June 11, 2016, 01:59:05 PM
Could be worth keeping him this season, monitor, sell him when we go up if he's not up to it. Personally, I think he's got too many mistakes in him but I can see Matt's point.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: supertom on June 12, 2016, 04:49:43 PM
Lescott, Richards and Okore are probably all going to go. Baker is worth keeping for me. As is Clark(e). Nathan isn't the best but what he is, is a player who'll put himself on the line. Sometimes to his detriment, but you can never fault his commitment. He's fine at that level and will be a fine stand-in, as/when needed. Buy two new decent senior CH's.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Mister E on June 12, 2016, 04:55:24 PM
Lescott, Richards and Okore are probably all going to go. Baker is worth keeping for me. As is Clark(e). Nathan isn't the best but what he is, is a player who'll put himself on the line. Sometimes to his detriment, but you can never fault his commitment. He's fine at that level and will be a fine stand-in, as/when needed. Buy two new decent senior CH's.
Hopefully our sensible new management team will persuade Okore to stay.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: supertom on June 12, 2016, 04:57:28 PM
Lescott, Richards and Okore are probably all going to go. Baker is worth keeping for me. As is Clark(e). Nathan isn't the best but what he is, is a player who'll put himself on the line. Sometimes to his detriment, but you can never fault his commitment. He's fine at that level and will be a fine stand-in, as/when needed. Buy two new decent senior CH's.
Hopefully our sensible new management team will persuade Okore to stay.
I'm either way on Jores. He's decent enough, but whether his agent is gonna be causing him to play silly buggers is another matter. If he wants out, he'll have to go. His whole situation at the end of the season, regardless of the actual truth, was farcical.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 12, 2016, 05:03:48 PM
Baker isn't good enough.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: N'ZMAV on June 12, 2016, 05:26:54 PM
He's no worse than any others we've got. They've all got huge mistakes in them. Ideally we'd sign a whole new back 4 and goal keeper.

Amavi?
great going forward. Not sure about his defensive

 side.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Leicester_Villian on June 12, 2016, 05:55:59 PM
Baker is not good enough as a first choice in the Premiership ......

But we are not in that next season and he is fine at Championship level

We won't see anywhere near 50 million spent and what is spent there are many other areas to spend it on ....... it will be interesting if its a 50 million spend and if that includes those going out who might make up 30 million at a guess
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: PaulWinch again on June 12, 2016, 06:11:17 PM
Baker is not good enough as a first choice in the Premiership ......

But we are not in that next season and he is fine at Championship level

We won't see anywhere near 50 million spent and what is spent there are many other areas to spend it on ....... it will be interesting if its a 50 million spend and if that includes those going out who might make up 30 million at a guess

Does that paragraph not seem slightly odd to you?
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Mister E on June 12, 2016, 06:56:40 PM
Baker is not good enough as a first choice in the Premiership ......

But we are not in that next season and he is fine at Championship level

We won't see anywhere near 50 million spent and what is spent there are many other areas to spend it on ....... it will be interesting if its a 50 million spend and if that includes those going out who might make up 30 million at a guess

Does that paragraph not seem slightly odd to you?
"must try harder"
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Dante Lavelli on June 12, 2016, 07:05:03 PM
Baker is not good enough as a first choice in the Premiership ......

But we are not in that next season and he is fine at Championship level

We won't see anywhere near 50 million spent and what is spent there are many other areas to spend it on ....... it will be interesting if its a 50 million spend and if that includes those going out who might make up 30 million at a guess

last I read, it was more like £30m plus any revenue generated from sales.  All speculation mind.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Ian. on June 12, 2016, 07:11:54 PM
Baker is not good enough as a first choice in the Premiership ......

But we are not in that next season and he is fine at Championship level

We won't see anywhere near 50 million spent and what is spent there are many other areas to spend it on ....... it will be interesting if its a 50 million spend and if that includes those going out who might make up 30 million at a guess

Does that paragraph not seem slightly odd to you?
I have read that twice and I'm still none the wiser.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on June 12, 2016, 07:55:03 PM
Why do people keep going on about players who are "fine at championship level" like that is what we need?

Yes, fine if we're planning to hang around that level like Leeds, not so good if we want to get out of it quickly.

We need players who are too good for that level, not of that level.

We do not have some divine right to bounce back. We will need good players, not dross like Baker.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: rougegorge on June 12, 2016, 08:26:06 PM
Why do people keep going on about players who are "fine at championship level" like that is what we need?

Yes, fine if we're planning to hang around that level like Leeds, not so good if we want to get out of it quickly.

We need players who are too good for that level, not of that level.

We do not have some divine right to bounce back. We will need good players, not dross like Baker.

Exactly!  If we think that players are OK for the championship and accept them,  we will set the bar at a low level just like we did in the premier league under Lambert. We'll just accept mediocrity.

In the main, the players that took us down won't be good enough to get us back up and those we loaned out won't be either.



Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Dave Cooper please on June 12, 2016, 11:47:22 PM
Why do people keep going on about players who are "fine at championship level" like that is what we need?

Yes, fine if we're planning to hang around that level like Leeds, not so good if we want to get out of it quickly.

We need players who are too good for that level, not of that level.

We do not have some divine right to bounce back. We will need good players, not dross like Baker.

Yes, but we are unlikely to be able to get a whole team of "too good" in one or even two transfer windows, so we are going to have to get as many as we can afford and who will come here and then complement them with "good enough".

Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: peter w on June 13, 2016, 12:04:28 AM
Lescott, Richards and Okore are probably all going to go. Baker is worth keeping for me. As is Clark(e). Nathan isn't the best but what he is, is a player who'll put himself on the line. Sometimes to his detriment, but you can never fault his commitment. He's fine at that level and will be a fine stand-in, as/when needed. Buy two new decent senior CH's.
Hopefully our sensible new management team will persuade Okore to stay.

Hopefully they will fuck him right off.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: old man villa fan on June 13, 2016, 08:03:41 AM
The thing you have to look at is whether a player is going to improve given more experience and confidence of playing in a winning team.  I do not think Baker will as his major weakness is reading the game and being caught out of position.  At his age and number of games he has played, I do not think that this can be coached into him.

Baker would only be good enough as back up but then you put a block on developing young players coming behind him.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Villa in Denmark on June 13, 2016, 09:11:27 AM
Lescott, Richards and Okore are probably all going to go. Baker is worth keeping for me. As is Clark(e). Nathan isn't the best but what he is, is a player who'll put himself on the line. Sometimes to his detriment, but you can never fault his commitment. He's fine at that level and will be a fine stand-in, as/when needed. Buy two new decent senior CH's.
Hopefully our sensible new management team will persuade Okore to stay.

Hopefully they will fuck him right off.

Yet on another thread you'd give the king of the ******, Agbonlahor another chance?
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: peter w on June 13, 2016, 09:12:27 AM
Yet on another thread you haven't once again read my post properly.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: brian green on June 13, 2016, 09:13:41 AM
Don't bite, VID.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: peter w on June 13, 2016, 09:17:27 AM
Bite? Somebody clearly hasn't read what i posted and it is that person who shouldn't bite? Right, okay.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: brian green on June 13, 2016, 09:23:39 AM
From memory your post began something along the lines "I am a great fan of Agbonlahor". 
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: peter w on June 13, 2016, 09:30:50 AM
Let me help you with your memory then brian as the full post went like this:

I'm a big Gabby fan and think that with him properly coached and managed he could be a big player for us next season. However, I agree that his disgraceful behaviour last season may be something he can't and maybe shouldn't be allowed to come back from.

and then to respond to KevinGage remarking on his attitude last season:

His contract is the problem. Unless we can get someone to agree to take him on, and it's likely to be overseas, then the likelihood is that he'll be with us until his contract ends. He potentially has 2 years left (if that's how long he has on his contract) as a professional footballer. If that doesn't concentrate the mind then he's as good as done anywhere.



Now, you show me where I am willing to give Gabby another chance other than we may have no choice but to keep him? It is ViD trying to get bites out of me because I hope that Okore is dumped by the club. Something which he, probably given his current location, finds hard to accept.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Villa in Denmark on June 13, 2016, 09:34:35 AM
Bite? Somebody clearly hasn't read what i posted and it is that person who shouldn't bite? Right, okay.

I'll bite. 

Quote
However, I agree that his disgraceful behaviour last season may be something he can't and maybe shouldn't be allowed to come back from.

says to me that given the option you would give him yet another chance, but other circumstances dictate you couldn't, but a guy that possibly put 1 foot out of line in 3 years should be run out of town like some low life scum that's been harrasing your daughter.

I hope for the sake of the people you assess in your job that your a bit more objective in your assessments and reasoning than you are on here.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: peter w on June 13, 2016, 09:38:35 AM
Grow up.

Let's move this back to Nathan Baker, eh?
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Mister E on June 13, 2016, 09:56:18 AM
Lescott, Richards and Okore are probably all going to go. Baker is worth keeping for me. As is Clark(e). Nathan isn't the best but what he is, is a player who'll put himself on the line. Sometimes to his detriment, but you can never fault his commitment. He's fine at that level and will be a fine stand-in, as/when needed. Buy two new decent senior CH's.
Hopefully our sensible new management team will persuade Okore to stay.

Hopefully they will fuck him right off.
I'm hoping that young, hungry and decent players are given a chance. I put Okore in that bracket.
Your opinion of Okore is clearly different to mine.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: peter w on June 13, 2016, 10:08:11 AM
Lescott, Richards and Okore are probably all going to go. Baker is worth keeping for me. As is Clark(e). Nathan isn't the best but what he is, is a player who'll put himself on the line. Sometimes to his detriment, but you can never fault his commitment. He's fine at that level and will be a fine stand-in, as/when needed. Buy two new decent senior CH's.
Hopefully our sensible new management team will persuade Okore to stay.

Hopefully they will fuck him right off.
I'm hoping that young, hungry and decent players are given a chance. I put Okore in that bracket.
Your opinion of Okore is clearly different to mine.


Well I can see Baker as  more of a talker and Okore, wherever he ends up next season and of course I hope its not with us, needs that with us. I thought at times that baker would have been a better option for us at centre-half last season seeing what happened to the rest of them. Another point to remember, is that he had a seemingly good season for Bristol City in what was deemed a relatively good season for them. He is coming back from a good, happy dressing-room not tainted with everything that went on at Villa.

not sure how good this Elphick is, if he's any good, or which side he plays on, but we need to buy at least one right-sided centre-half. Someone who has experience and has been playing football. If Clark does stay, then we'd have him, Baker, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Lescott stay, either. That's very left-sided. And out of those 3 only Baker came out of last season with any credit - although in the lower level where we now find ourselves.

I hope Richards isn't around, and obviously Okore, so we need two more in there.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: saunders_heroes on June 13, 2016, 10:29:04 AM
Lescott, Richards and Okore are probably all going to go. Baker is worth keeping for me. As is Clark(e). Nathan isn't the best but what he is, is a player who'll put himself on the line. Sometimes to his detriment, but you can never fault his commitment. He's fine at that level and will be a fine stand-in, as/when needed. Buy two new decent senior CH's.
Hopefully our sensible new management team will persuade Okore to stay.

Hopefully they will fuck him right off.
I'm hoping that young, hungry and decent players are given a chance. I put Okore in that bracket.
Your opinion of Okore is clearly different to mine.


You must have been watching a different Okore to me since he arrived then. I think he's been overrated by a lot of fans and seems clumsy and lacking in concentration to me. Add that to his never ending injury problems and his refusal to play late last season and I think it's time to get rid before another long term injury means we're stuck with him.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: paul_e on June 13, 2016, 12:05:08 PM
Why do people keep going on about players who are "fine at championship level" like that is what we need?

Yes, fine if we're planning to hang around that level like Leeds, not so good if we want to get out of it quickly.

We need players who are too good for that level, not of that level.

We do not have some divine right to bounce back. We will need good players, not dross like Baker.

Yes, but we are unlikely to be able to get a whole team of "too good" in one or even two transfer windows, so we are going to have to get as many as we can afford and who will come here and then complement them with "good enough".


Exactly, ones who've not quite been good enough for where we were but can do a job in the squad for this season should be way down the list of people to replace.  Let the people who won't stay and the people who are hated go this summer and then revisit the likes of Westwood and Baker in Jan/next summer.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: tomd2103 on June 13, 2016, 12:36:30 PM
I'll be very disappointed if Baker is anywhere near the match day squad next season.  Said it before, but I would much prefer to sell him and use Toner as back up. 
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: saunders_heroes on June 13, 2016, 12:40:15 PM
I'll be very disappointed if Baker is anywhere near the match day squad next season.  Said it before, but I would much prefer to sell him and use Toner as back up. 

I agree. Baker is a car crash waiting to happen and we need to finally be rid of these players that have played their part in our downfall. A clean sweep please.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on June 13, 2016, 01:09:20 PM
At the start of last season most of us would have said Micah Richards would have been 'too good for Championship level.'  I don't see a clamour to keep him though and I am not one of them.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Oscar Arce on June 13, 2016, 02:51:39 PM
Nathan Baker did well for Bristol City last season and he is definately Championship standard.
Somebody mentioned he is a 'talker'..well he definately isn't and I wopuldn't be surprised if he goes, I like his commitment personally.
Richards must be binned, and the Bouyrnemouth lad is a good shout to be paired with someone like Baker.
Okore personally I'd persevere with, I think a good defender is in there, but the management need to find out if he wants to stay.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: cheltenhamlion on June 13, 2016, 05:19:19 PM
Why do people keep going on about players who are "fine at championship level" like that is what we need?

Yes, fine if we're planning to hang around that level like Leeds, not so good if we want to get out of it quickly.

We need players who are too good for that level, not of that level.

We do not have some divine right to bounce back. We will need good players, not dross like Baker.

Yes, but we are unlikely to be able to get a whole team of "too good" in one or even two transfer windows, so we are going to have to get as many as we can afford and who will come here and then complement them with "good enough".


Exactly, ones who've not quite been good enough for where we were but can do a job in the squad for this season should be way down the list of people to replace.  Let the people who won't stay and the people who are hated go this summer and then revisit the likes of Westwood and Baker in Jan/next summer.

That is my take as well. We can't buy a whole new squad of players that are miles better than anything in the Championship so you get 3 or 4 that would make all the difference and have squad players that can do a job but aren't fixtures in the team.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Risso on June 13, 2016, 07:01:22 PM
I understand Baker did OK for Bristol, and also stayed relatively fit, which in my opinion was always his biggest failing.  I'd like to see how he does after having a regular run with a regular partner.  He's a big, no nonsense sort of player, and I think he could be plenty good enough for a top 6 Championship player.  I'd certainly rather see him in a Villa shirt again than Richards, Lescott or Okore.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: cheltenhamlion on June 13, 2016, 07:27:47 PM
More importantly, if his form dips, you drop him for a couple of months.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: bill on June 13, 2016, 07:56:25 PM
Build a team for the Championship.....and that's where you might end up staying.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: paul_e on June 13, 2016, 08:14:59 PM
Build a team for the Championship.....and that's where you might end up staying.

Buy 20 new players and the same happens.

For that reason we need to keep our good players, replace our poor players (poor in skill or attitude) with other good players and then use the average players to fill out the squad.  I honestly believe that much more than 5-6 new players this summer would be a mistake but they need to be 5-6 players who are regulars in the team.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Dave Cooper please on June 13, 2016, 11:05:15 PM
Build a team for the Championship.....and that's where you might end up staying.

No one is saying that, but we are not going to get a squad of 25 "too good for the Championship" players in the two months left before the season starts. Obviously we need at least one, preferably two, better centre-halves than Baker and Clark but we aren't going to find and buy four of them in one go are we? Baker and Clark are good enough for the Championship and unless we go crazy ape-shit in this transfer window we are going to need a few of those in the squad.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 14, 2016, 09:43:10 AM
Would get rid of Clark but keep Baker.

Baker's one of those I wouldn't want to be starting every week but surely people can see he can do a job for certain games like Rotherham and Cardiff away on a Tuesday night.

People are forgetting it's quickfire down there, 46 games packed into the same period of time as a premier league season so far more Saturday-Tuesday-Saturday to contend with.

You need more than 16 players for that.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: old man villa fan on June 14, 2016, 11:45:54 PM
Would get rid of Clark but keep Baker.

Baker's one of those I wouldn't want to be starting every week but surely people can see he can do a job for certain games like Rotherham and Cardiff away on a Tuesday night.

People are forgetting it's quickfire down there, 46 games packed into the same period of time as a premier league season so far more Saturday-Tuesday-Saturday to contend with.

You need more than 16 players for that.

You also need defenders that are versatile.  We have hardly any that can play in more than one position.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: footyskillz on June 17, 2016, 12:01:48 AM
I'd like to keep baker. Depends on contract status but he's decent enough
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 17, 2016, 09:46:28 AM
Would get rid of Clark but keep Baker.

Baker's one of those I wouldn't want to be starting every week but surely people can see he can do a job for certain games like Rotherham and Cardiff away on a Tuesday night.

People are forgetting it's quickfire down there, 46 games packed into the same period of time as a premier league season so far more Saturday-Tuesday-Saturday to contend with.

You need more than 16 players for that.

You also need defenders that are versatile.  We have hardly any that can play in more than one position.

Baker and Clark played plenty of games for us at Left back?

Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Richard on June 17, 2016, 12:39:22 PM
They did but not convincingly !
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: paul_e on June 17, 2016, 01:03:12 PM
I agree that I'd really like to have a couple of versatile players back there, I don't mind central defenders being specialists but I think getting someone who can cover defensive midfield and full back on at least 1 side shouldn't be that tough.  Look at someone like Kyle Walker for example, I think he could quite easily adapt to playing central in a more box-to-box role.  I think Amavi probably fits that bill, he certainly wouldn't luck out of place on the left in the 4 and I think he's got enough about him to be able to come in field a little as well.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: SoccerHQ on June 17, 2016, 01:59:43 PM
They did but not convincingly !

Yes I know. The good news is we won't be facing any world class attackers in the championship at least.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Jon Crofts on June 17, 2016, 02:36:48 PM
They did but not convincingly !

Yes I know. The good news is we won't be facing any world class attackers in the championship at least.

Based on what we saw the past few years, Solihull Comprehensive U14s would have posed a threat to our defence.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: UK Redsox on September 17, 2016, 07:01:30 PM
Did anyone have 27 minutes in the Baker injury sweepstakes ?

I couldn't see what his injury was this time

Any news?
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: aj2k77 on September 17, 2016, 07:04:18 PM
It's becoming pointless owning him now, you can't have a centre back that can't last a couple of games. I'd be selling him asap before he's worthless.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: The Edge on September 17, 2016, 07:09:57 PM
It's becoming pointless owning him now, you can't have a centre back that can't last a couple of games. I'd be selling him asap before he's worthless.
I actually think he's a decent player.
Just saying.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Witton Warrior on September 17, 2016, 07:32:13 PM
It's becoming pointless owning him now, you can't have a centre back that can't last a couple of games. I'd be selling him asap before he's worthless.
I actually think he's a decent player.
Just saying.

He could be as good as God but if he's never available what's the point?
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Matt Collins on September 17, 2016, 08:03:45 PM
He played a lot last season
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: nodge on September 17, 2016, 08:37:04 PM
Has he ever played a full game?
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Ad@m on September 17, 2016, 08:40:07 PM
He played a lot last season

Quite.

There must be a reason our injury record has been so bad for so long. Especially when you see someone who's made of glass in a Villa shirt manage 36 games in one season in a Bristol City shirt.
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: saunders_heroes on September 17, 2016, 08:43:46 PM
He's an absolute waste of space. Why is he still at the club?
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Risso on September 17, 2016, 08:48:30 PM
How many times is that he's been injured in the first half playing for us? 
Title: Re: Nathan Baker?
Post by: Richard E on September 17, 2016, 08:51:17 PM
How many times is that he's been injured in the first half playing for us? 

Twice this season alone for a kick off.
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