Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Off Topic => Sports Arena => Topic started by: Dave Cooper please on June 04, 2016, 07:41:50 AM
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If ever a person deserved his own thread it's Muhammad Ali.
RIP
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:(RIP to the true king sadly the world will never see the likes of that man again
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Stand aside God, the Greatest is on his way.
Typical Ali:
"I would like to be remembered as a man who won the heavyweight title three times, who was humorous and who treated everyone right. As a man who never looked down on those who looked up to him...who stood up for his beliefs...who tried to unite all humankind through faith and love.
"And if all that's too much, then I guess I'd settle for being remembered only as a great boxer who became a leader and a champion of his people. And I wouldn't even mind if folks forgot how pretty I was."
RIP Great man
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An icon, a legend, an inspiration and the Greatest sporting personality of all time. A very sad day. RIP Muhammed.
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An icon, a legend, an inspiration and the Greatest sporting personality of all time. A very sad day. RIP Muhammed.
Apologies Muhammad.
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He was a great champion and and a great man, definitely "The Greatest".
I thought he would live forever, but RIP Champ, we will never see the likes of you again.
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When I was growing up in the 60's he was a mythical figure - the most recognisable human being in the world for decades - probably only second to Nelson Mandela today. Although I never particularly liked boxing I have watched most of his fights just because of the intense atmosphere his mere presence generated - what a guy - and pretty!
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I'm pretty sure that it was Edward de Bono who described Ali as the perfect example of humanity. A true great, and head and shoulders above those who believe that they deserve the same accolade. I feel truly grateful that I was able to witness Ali in all his pomp, a man of incredible self belief and drive, simply The Greatest.
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So much more than just a boxer. Simply the Greatest
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Farewell Muhammad, great boxer, great man and great inspiration.
I am the man this poem’s about,
I’ll be champ of the world, there isn’t a doubt.
Here I predict Mr. Liston’s dismemberment,
I’ll hit him so hard; he’ll wonder where October and November went.
When I say two, there’s never a third,
Standin against me is completely absurd.
When Cassius says a mouse can outrun a horse,
Don’t ask how; put your money where your mouse is!
I AM THE GREATEST!
"I am the Greatest" (1964)
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To the greatest. I count myself fortunate enough to be around during your lifetime. Never to be repeated. Never to be forgotten. RIP.
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I think I will watch " When we were Kings" tonight, an absolutely brilliant film about the Rumble in the Jungle.
"Ali, Boma Ye"
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One person who really did "know what you are".
Greatest sportsman of all time? I can't think of one better.
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Saw a fight between Floyd Patterson and Sonny Liston on tv and they announced a number of famous boxers before the fight, including Sugay Ray Robinson and Cassius Clay. All the fighters were called by into the ring and shaking hands with Patterson and Liston, when Ali came into the ring he shook Patrerson's hand and took one look at Liston and pretended to run away terrified.
Just love the way he was able to get into people's heads.
Had skill, pace, power and most of all brains.
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One person who really did "know what you are".
Greatest sportsman of all time? I can't think of one better.
We've done this before. It's Bradman. By a mile.
But, Ali was the greatest boxer. You forget how fast he was, they just showed him finishing off a British boxer called London. He must've thrown about twenty punches in two seconds.
Some fighter.
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Only interest I had in boxing as a kid was Ali through his fights and appearance on chat shows. The only sportsman who I've read up on and bought countless biographies, amazing character and sportsman. Wonder how many first became aware of Islam through Ali?
The Greatest.
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One person who really did "know what you are".
Greatest sportsman of all time? I can't think of one better.
We've done this before. It's Bradman. By a mile.
But, Ali was the greatest boxer. You forget how fast he was, they just showed him finishing off a British boxer called London. He must've thrown about twenty punches in two seconds.
Some fighter.
I think to define Ali as merely a sportsman is to miss the point completely. He was much more than a brilliant boxer.
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Lucky enough to remember him in the late 70a and even then I was aware of the magnitude of the man. He transcended life like only the very few - Martin Luther King, Adolf Hitler, Nelson Mandela, Albert Einstein - and he has been sorely missed for many years. I usually detest the fall out from cynical TV producers when a celebrity dies but I'm going to 'enjoy' the next few days and weeks.
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Transcended his sport to become one of the most well known people on the planet. Saying that, it has to be remembered that he was a brilliant boxer first and foremost.
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There's not much that hasn't been said already. The greatest. And then some.
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I think to define Ali as merely a sportsman is to miss the point completely. He was much more than a brilliant boxer.
"I'll tell you how I'd like to be remembered: As a black man who won the heavyweight title - Who has humorous and who never looked down on those who looked up to him - A man who stood for freedom, justice and equality - And I wouldn't even mind if folks forgot how pretty I was." - Muhammad Ali
Is that the correct quote ? I've seen a couple of variations this morning
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TRUE LEGEND, SUPERB BOXER, BRILLIANT ENTERTAINER, WONDERFUL AND CLASSY.R.I.P
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Lucky enough to remember him in the late 70a and even then I was aware of the magnitude of the man. He transcended life like only the very few - Martin Luther King, Adolf Hitler, Nelson Mandela, Albert Einstein - and he has been sorely missed for many years. I usually detest the fall out from cynical TV producers when a celebrity dies but I'm going to 'enjoy' the next few days and weeks.
That's exactly the sort of company he should be discussed in relation to, add Ang San Su Kii, Stephen Hawkin, Jimi Hendrix, Mother Teresa... Paul Weller ( ;D)
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There's not much that hasn't been said already. The greatest. And then some.
Perfectly put.
One of my favourite quotes from him
'If you even dream of beating me you'd better wake up and apologise'.
A true hero.
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I'm so fast when I flip the light, I'm in bed before the room gets dark.
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I'm so fast when I flip the light, I'm in bed before the room gets dark.
Did Ali say that about himself?
That was also a comment by Satchel Paige about Cool Papa Bell
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Lucky enough to remember him in the late 70a and even then I was aware of the magnitude of the man. He transcended life like only the very few - Martin Luther King, Adolf Hitler, Nelson Mandela, Albert Einstein - and he has been sorely missed for many years. I usually detest the fall out from cynical TV producers when a celebrity dies but I'm going to 'enjoy' the next few days and weeks.
I'll be interested to see/hear from Trump
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One person who really did "know what you are".
Greatest sportsman of all time? I can't think of one better.
We've done this before. It's Bradman. By a mile.
But, Ali was the greatest boxer. You forget how fast he was, they just showed him finishing off a British boxer called London. He must've thrown about twenty punches in two seconds.
Some fighter.
Greatest boxer without any doubt and greatest sportsman in my book too. Bradman as brilliant as he was is only relevant to the cricketing world. His name would hardly register in mainland Europe, China, The far east, Russia, America and so on....Ali would be known the world over and quite rightly so.
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Bradman was the best, but Ali was the greatest.
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RIP Champ
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Sad news, but not unexpected. Rest easy Ali.
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Rest In Peace Muhammad Ali, the Greatest.
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Greatest boxer without any doubt and greatest sportsman in my book too. Bradman as brilliant as he was is only relevant to the cricketing world. His name would hardly register in mainland Europe, China, The far east, Russia, America and so on....Ali would be known the world over and quite rightly so.
We've done this several times before. I'd say that Ali is the most important sportsperson (Jackie Robinson and Billie-Jean King would be next on my list of social importance), probably the greatest boxer (but that's not a sport that I know anything about) but not necessarily the greatest sportsperson. Others have been more dominant in one sport in comparison to their peers; eg Bradman and Ruth. Then there's the multi-sport athletes to look at; eg Jim Thorpe
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I don't care for boxing but Ali transcended mere sport, he was one of the greatest cultural icons of the latter half of the century
How many sportsmen do we hear speaking like this?
“Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go 10,000 miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on Brown people in Vietnam while so-called Negro people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights? No I’m not going 10,000 miles from home to help murder and burn another poor nation simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of the darker people the world over. This is the day when such evils must come to an end. I have been warned that to take such a stand would cost me millions of dollars. But I have said it once and I will say it again. The real enemy of my people is here. I will not disgrace my religion, my people or myself by becoming a tool to enslave those who are fighting for their own justice, freedom and equality. If I thought the war was going to bring freedom and equality to 22 million of my people they wouldn’t have to draft me, I’d join tomorrow. I have nothing to lose by standing up for my beliefs. So I’ll go to jail, so what? We’ve been in jail for 400 years.”
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I'm too young to see his fights on TV, but I feel very sad with his loss. As much of a man, as he was as a boxer, we were lucky to live in the same time as him. R.I.P Champ.
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"......for how fortunate we all are that The Greatest chose to grace our time".
Obama
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Ali, without doubt the greatest boxer I've ever seen, but pound for pound a lot of the older boxing pundits, reckon Sugar Ray Robinson is the greatest.
In other sports the greatest, IMO, are golf Nicklaus, football Pele, tennis Federer and in cricket, yes Bradman, obviously the greatest batsman, but greatest all rounder Sobers.
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The thing for me that made him great was his intellect. I'm sure that being smarter than his opponents was what defeated them. He had great ability and athleticism, but his mind was brilliant.
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My dad used to wake me up in the early 1970's on a Saturday night to watch match of the day. Many a time I got to see Parkinson part way through, as it was on before the football, and that is the stand out memory for me of Ali, in that great interview with Parky.
I remember my mom was never keen on Ali as she felt he was way too big headed, but that was part of the appeal for me. Arrogance with talent and highly entertaining.
Like all boxers he kept coming back and I seem to remember the fight aginst Larry Holmes was embarrassing.
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Thomas Hauser's book about Ali is a great read.
Muhammad Ali: His Life and Times.
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The greatest showman in boxing but not the best boxer.But without him boxing wouldn't be where it is today.
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I don't care for boxing but Ali transcended mere sport, he was one of the greatest cultural icons of the latter half of the century
How many sportsmen do we hear speaking like this?
“Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go 10,000 miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on Brown people in Vietnam while so-called Negro people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights? No I’m not going 10,000 miles from home to help murder and burn another poor nation simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of the darker people the world over. This is the day when such evils must come to an end. I have been warned that to take such a stand would cost me millions of dollars. But I have said it once and I will say it again. The real enemy of my people is here. I will not disgrace my religion, my people or myself by becoming a tool to enslave those who are fighting for their own justice, freedom and equality. If I thought the war was going to bring freedom and equality to 22 million of my people they wouldn’t have to draft me, I’d join tomorrow. I have nothing to lose by standing up for my beliefs. So I’ll go to jail, so what? We’ve been in jail for 400 years.”
That would have been my post on what I liked most about Ali.
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I don't care for boxing but Ali transcended mere sport, he was one of the greatest cultural icons of the latter half of the century
How many sportsmen do we hear speaking like this?
“Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go 10,000 miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on Brown people in Vietnam while so-called Negro people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights? No I’m not going 10,000 miles from home to help murder and burn another poor nation simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of the darker people the world over. This is the day when such evils must come to an end. I have been warned that to take such a stand would cost me millions of dollars. But I have said it once and I will say it again. The real enemy of my people is here. I will not disgrace my religion, my people or myself by becoming a tool to enslave those who are fighting for their own justice, freedom and equality. If I thought the war was going to bring freedom and equality to 22 million of my people they wouldn’t have to draft me, I’d join tomorrow. I have nothing to lose by standing up for my beliefs. So I’ll go to jail, so what? We’ve been in jail for 400 years.”
That would have been my post on what I liked most about Ali.
This is what makes Ali stand apart and alone from any other sports person. He was so much more than just a boxer.
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Having just watched the Beeb's tribute to Mohamed Ali - The Greatest..not only does it make me think how quick has time passed but reminds me the greatest did have his flaws, which doesn't in anyway impinge on his greatness.
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Sporting intelligence! Shifting to the rope-a-dope after one round in Zaire!!
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He was the perfect balance of a showman who had great courage.
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I'll leave it at the best heavyweight. I can't think of anyone who missed the prime years and was still That Good.
Ray Robinson probably best boxer though one or two others could lay claim.
As others said though the Most Influential Sportsman and doubt anyone will ever surpass him in that sense.
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Prob not the best thread for this, but not even sure he's the best heavyweight.
Rocky Marciano, Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis have phenomenal records -at a time when boxing was much harder. Mike Tyson before he went off the rails would have to be in contention. The speed at which he'd just bulldoze opponents will probably never be repeated.
If boxing is the art of hitting and not getting hit, Ali falls down on that as well. Sugar Ray Leonard and Floyd Maywether were consistently at the top of the tree during their time, and rarely even got cut, never mind put down.
But they would have both said Ali is the greatest. And aside from Joe Louis -who galvanized a nation against the Nazis with his success in the late 30s - no other boxer has had such a popular impact on popular culture as Ali.
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Trump >:(
(http://i65.tinypic.com/29lzsps.jpg)
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Here (hopefully) is the story of why Ali was a frequent visitor to a council estate in Abingdon, Oxfordshire, including some great photographs.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-16630467
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Prob not the best thread for this, but not even sure he's the best heavyweight.
Rocky Marciano, Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis have phenomenal records -at a time when boxing was much harder. Mike Tyson before he went off the rails would have to be in contention. The speed at which he'd just bulldoze opponents will probably never be repeated.
If boxing is the art of hitting and not getting hit, Ali falls down on that as well. Sugar Ray Leonard and Floyd Maywether were consistently at the top of the tree during their time, and rarely even got cut, never mind put down.
But they would have both said Ali is the greatest. And aside from Joe Louis -who galvanized a nation against the Nazis with his success in the late 30s - no other boxer has had such a popular impact on popular culture as Ali.
A boxing pundit on the radio yesterday was saying that Marciano and Tyson at their peak would have beaten Ali at his. His ability as a boxer was only part of his appeal though.
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Prob not the best thread for this, but not even sure he's the best heavyweight.
Rocky Marciano, Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis have phenomenal records -at a time when boxing was much harder. Mike Tyson before he went off the rails would have to be in contention. The speed at which he'd just bulldoze opponents will probably never be repeated.
If boxing is the art of hitting and not getting hit, Ali falls down on that as well. Sugar Ray Leonard and Floyd Maywether were consistently at the top of the tree during their time, and rarely even got cut, never mind put down.
But they would have both said Ali is the greatest. And aside from Joe Louis -who galvanized a nation against the Nazis with his success in the late 30s - no other boxer has had such a popular impact on popular culture as Ali.
A boxing pundit on the radio yesterday was saying that Marciano and Tyson at their peak would have beaten Ali at his. His ability as a boxer was only part of his appeal though.
His opinion. Marciano and Tyson were sluggers with huge firepower. Ali would have treated both with distain just as he did Liston and Foreman who were also
huge punchers. Tyson would have hit low when he found he couldn't knock Ali out and got himself disqualified.
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He struggled with Joe Frazier who was nowhere near the level of Marciano or Tyson.
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He struggled with Joe Frazier who was nowhere near the level of Marciano or Tyson.
Frazier would have beaten them both.
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Ahem no.
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Ahem no.
Very definitely yes. Unless you can tell me any opponent either of them beat who at the time was as good as Frazier's wins.
EDIT: I should probably have said "could" rather than "would" beat but the point remains that Frazier's best wins were much better than the other two's and at the very least he was at their level, which is to say behind the Greatest.
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Sadly missed. Fantastic sportsman.
Never sat right with me, the build up to the Frazier fight in Manilla, that went beyond trash talk. Still a unique personality we won't see the like of again.
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Here (hopefully) is the story of why Ali was a frequent visitor to a council estate in Abingdon, Oxfordshire, including some great photographs.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-16630467
Lovely story...the last quote, "he was greater outside the ring than he was in it" hits the nail on the head. Arguing about who was the greatest boxer is irrelevant, Ali was the greatest sportsman.
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He struggled with Joe Frazier who was nowhere near the level of Marciano or Tyson.
Frazier would have beaten them both.
And Ali was not at his peak when he met Frazier.
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Bradman was the best, but Ali was the greatest.
Not sure I agree. Bradman was dominating a sport essentially played by two countries, England and Australia, whilst cricket in West Indies , India and South Africa was still developing. Even if you count them cricket was not and still is not a world sport. There are other better examples to do a comparison on the best sportsman in my opinion.
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Ali was the first sportsman to really go from the back pages to the front. Even those who dislike boxing had their lives touched by thus man in some way.
So sad that he continued to fight on long after he should have called time, though that was probably as much to do with the people around him as himself. If only he'd heeded the warnings of his doctor Ferdie Pacheco.
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He was beautiful in every sense of the word and the world is a sadder place for his going.
Take it easy, Ali. You were, are and always will be, The Greatest.
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Sadly missed. Fantastic sportsman.
Never sat right with me, the build up to the Frazier fight in Manilla, that went beyond trash talk. Still a unique personality we won't see the like of again.
Agree with that. Also arguably the Foreman fight with his talk of uncle toms and all that. He was a great sportsman who did a lot of good but no saint either.
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Also, if you haven't read it yet it's well worth getting hold of the fight by Norman Mailer. Easily the best book written on the subject of sport IMO. I read it before I saw full footage of the Kinshasa fight which I then watched straight afterwards, and it adds so many dimensions. Gives you a taste of the magnitude of the fight, and the outcome, at the time.
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Also, if you haven't read it yet it's well worth getting hold of the fight by Norman Mailer. Easily the best book written on the subject of sport IMO. I read it before I saw full footage of the Kinshasa fight which I then watched straight afterwards, and it adds so many dimensions. Gives you a taste of the magnitude of the fight, and the outcome, at the time.
Couldn't agree more. It's a great read.
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Ahem no.
He definitely would.
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A slight tangent but I have a recollection as a kid in the 80's of a programme called "Who is the Greatest" which essentially had 2 celebrities arguing over who was better in that chosen sport. I am sure one was Ali vs Marciano and Ted Rogers was batting for Marciano.
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Dusty Bin for Ali?
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A slight tangent but I have a recollection as a kid in the 80's of a programme called "Who is the Greatest" which essentially had 2 celebrities arguing over who was better in that chosen sport. I am sure one was Ali vs Marciano and Ted Rogers was batting for Marciano.
Didn't Jimmy Greaves present it ? I have vague memories of the programme too.
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The Greatest- Muhammad Ali
A true sporting icon.
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A slight tangent but I have a recollection as a kid in the 80's of a programme called "Who is the Greatest" which essentially had 2 celebrities arguing over who was better in that chosen sport. I am sure one was Ali vs Marciano and Ted Rogers was batting for Marciano.
This?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Super_Fight
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Alas, we were never allowed to see The Great Man at his best...
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A slight tangent but I have a recollection as a kid in the 80's of a programme called "Who is the Greatest" which essentially had 2 celebrities arguing over who was better in that chosen sport. I am sure one was Ali vs Marciano and Ted Rogers was batting for Marciano.
Didn't Jimmy Greaves present it ? I have vague memories of the programme too.
It was shit. They had Brian Moore hosting and Eamonn Andrews represented Marciano as he had commented for Beeb RRadio for some of his latter fights. Can't remember who did Ali.
Ali won.
They did others Laver v McEnroe was another. Maybe Botham v Sobers (which bearing in mind Sober batting record was a non starter and he was also a more varied bowler)
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A slight tangent but I have a recollection as a kid in the 80's of a programme called "Who is the Greatest" which essentially had 2 celebrities arguing over who was better in that chosen sport. I am sure one was Ali vs Marciano and Ted Rogers was batting for Marciano.
This?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Super_Fight
I think Marciano won. 13th round ko but it was shown after his death
Not sure if it's an urban myth but when Marciano died in the plane crash none of his bones were broken and he died of a heart attack.