Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: IQLowe 33 on May 23, 2016, 06:36:04 PM
-
Ok I'm a bluenose but I try to be objective as possible and I find myself rather baffled by Villa's transformation to a team that deservedly beat Liverpool in the semis, lost very unfortunately to Man C around that period to a team that finished with 17 points over an entire season. When I watched Villa at the early part of the season I thought "not bad" they're going through a bad patch but they probably have enough to get themselves out of it.
SO what happened that caused the absymal collapse against Liverpool? It was all quite inexplicable (and I won't pretend I didn't enjoy it) but I'm still a little puzzled by the swiftness of the decline. Where was the turning point? I'm sure youve all analysed it to death but all the same I'm somewhat intrigued.
-
A serious question: why are you so obsessed with us?
-
I'm not. I go on a lot of other forums too. Sad, maybe, but true.
-
The problem with your question is that we've analyzed it to death. Should you really want to know read any one of the many threads in Heroes discussion and you'll get an answer.
-
Will do. Perhaps your forum buddy might learn a trick from you.
-
It's a perfect example of what happens when there is no leadership from the top, and the players are overpaid pre-madonnas.
Where's the punishment if someone acts unprofessional...... a stint training with the kids, and an absence from the playing squad. They still pick up their salary
Until football gets to the bottom of this, many clubs will go through the same process.
-
We sold Benteke, without whose goals we would've dropped in any of the previous three seasons.
We bought in a lot of players but no real stars anywhere near the Benteke level.
Some were promising, others less so.
They needed looking after and integrating slowly. We had a manager who was interested in doing neither. We kept picking the same dross who seemed to find favour under Sherwood regardless of form.
We had the tiniest chance of getting out of it had we acted decisively but we dithered. Sherwood stayed for an extra couple of games, and a couple of defeats, when we should've sacked him during the international break. We then suffered a couple more defeats under MacDonald who was, if anything, even more incompetent than Sherwood.
Garde came in. He may prove to be a decent manager somewhere in the future but it was too big a task. The players never took to him and he had no chance to stamp his authority having being left with the poisonous dressing room he inherited.
In the transfer window the Board showed that they had given up. The players already seemed to have done so.
I don't think the squad was good enough go stay up, but they were easily good enough to get more than seventeen points. The lack of character and piss-poor attitudes of many of the players, particularly the most senior ones, were shockingly bad.
-
The failure to get anywhere near replacing the player whose goals kept us up the last few years, that was for me the biggest contributing issue.
Not even trying to stay up in the January window was another. That was humiliating, the limp, pathetic surrender.
-
Honestly, I think we started badly because we were disorganised, Sherwood had no idea how to prepare a team for the season. We got rid and replaced with Garde who wanted the team to be much fitter and was trying to focus on that but was struggling with the lack of professionalism of some of our players. In January he seemed to get something out of them but when he didn't get players in the window he seemed to lose a bit of focus and that translated to the players who, for me, saw him as a deadman walking and eased back on training, etc. That led to us taking a couple of beatings and him getting sacked. Finally Black acted up as caretaker and decided to try to defend his way to some points but with our ropey defence that was just a terrible decision.
-
Basically it's like one of those videos where some idiot is putting his arm in and out of an alligators open jaws. He keeps doing it over and over, thinking he can get away with it each time. And then the video ends with him getting his arm dislocated when the gator gets a grip of him and rolls.
Randy made error upon error and didn't learn from it. We're far too big a club to have been scraping over the line every year. The outcome was inevitable, and the odd run of form, or standout game, such as Liverpool in the Semi, papered over a lot of cracks.
-
Why don't you f**k off back to the Alliance website with all the other mongrels who are wetting themselves over the takeover and hoping beyond all hope that we end up in a situation your shite club.
-
Any need? He doesn't seem to have behaved too badly.
-
You think we would be treated with any respect on a nose forum. I would say that is mild to what would be said to us. This is a Villa website for Villa fans if I'm not mistaken.
-
Honestly, I think we started badly because we were disorganised, Sherwood had no idea how to prepare a team for the season. We got rid and replaced with Garde who wanted the team to be much fitter and was trying to focus on that but was struggling with the lack of professionalism of some of our players. In January he seemed to get something out of them but when he didn't get players in the window he seemed to lose a bit of focus and that translated to the players who, for me, saw him as a deadman walking and eased back on training, etc. That led to us taking a couple of beatings and him getting sacked. Finally Black acted up as caretaker and decided to try to defend his way to some points but with our ropey defence that was just a terrible decision.
I was talking to a client on Friday (Spurs fan) who met Kyle Walker, Aaron Lennon and Danny Rose in a casino not long after Pochettino arrived at WHL. He said Walker ignored him, Lennon was an actual knob but Rose was pretty sound and chatty. He asked him (Rose) what life was like under Poch. Rose said it was different, intense and there was a bit of ambivalence as there was no evidence at the time that the hard work would pay off. He apparently added 'it's very different to Tim Sherwood. He just let us do what we wanted."
I think that's what went wrong for us.
-
You think we would be treated with any respect on a nose forum. I would say that is mild to what would be said to us. This is a Villa website for Villa fans if I'm not mistaken.
what does that matter? The rule on here (as far as I'm aware) has always been that if you don't act like a complete dick trying to cause arguments you'll be allowed to stay. IQ hasn't been particularly annoying and he's asking a reasonably sensible question here so I don't see the need to send him away.
-
You think we would be treated with any respect on a nose forum. I would say that is mild to what would be said to us. This is a Villa website for Villa fans if I'm not mistaken.
Give it a rest, why don't you?
-
You think we would be treated with any respect on a nose forum. I would say that is mild to what would be said to us. This is a Villa website for Villa fans if I'm not mistaken.
Give it a rest, why don't you?
What?
You think we would be treated with any respect on a nose forum. I would say that is mild to what would be said to us. This is a Villa website for Villa fans if I'm not mistaken.
Give it a rest, why don't you?
-
You think we would be treated with any respect on a nose forum. I would say that is mild to what would be said to us. This is a Villa website for Villa fans if I'm not mistaken.
This is a forum for anyone willing to obey the rules, which on this thread you are the only one not doing.
-
its the thin end of the wedge, you'll have all the under dogs and bitters on this oh so liberal site soon.
Were Doomed.
-
Honestly, I think we started badly because we were disorganised, Sherwood had no idea how to prepare a team for the season. We got rid and replaced with Garde who wanted the team to be much fitter and was trying to focus on that but was struggling with the lack of professionalism of some of our players. In January he seemed to get something out of them but when he didn't get players in the window he seemed to lose a bit of focus and that translated to the players who, for me, saw him as a deadman walking and eased back on training, etc. That led to us taking a couple of beatings and him getting sacked. Finally Black acted up as caretaker and decided to try to defend his way to some points but with our ropey defence that was just a terrible decision.
I was talking to a client on Friday (Spurs fan) who met Kyle Walker, Aaron Lennon and Danny Rose in a casino not long after Pochettino arrived at WHL. He said Walker ignored him, Lennon was an actual knob but Rose was pretty sound and chatty. He asked him (Rose) what life was like under Poch. Rose said it was different, intense and there was a bit of ambivalence as there was no evidence at the time that the hard work would pay off. He apparently added 'it's very different to Tim Sherwood. He just let us do what we wanted."
I think that's what went wrong for us.
I think that's exactly what it was. We gave over our pre-season preparation to a complete chancer.
-
its the thin end of the wedge, you'll have all the under dogs and bitters on this oh so liberal site soon.
Were Doomed.
They were. Now we are too.
-
its the thin end of the wedge, you'll have all the under dogs and bitters on this oh so liberal site soon.
Were Doomed.
We had Stoke fans once, or was it Sunderland, anyroad, they were so nice it soon got boring.
-
its the thin end of the wedge, you'll have all the under dogs and bitters on this oh so liberal site soon.
Were Doomed.
We had Stoke fans once, or was it Sunderland, anyroad, they were so nice it soon got boring.
Both, DaveyB was the mackem and I seem to recall the stoke fan was bunny or something. There wasa west ham fan who was ok for a while as well and Liam from the baggies has always come across as a decent enough guy.
-
Well behaved away fans add something to the board, the Stoke and Sunderland ones were just dull, just sharing niceities with that fella who flounced off. Can't mind his name.
-
Well behaved away fans add something to the board, the Stoke and Sunderland ones were just dull, just sharing niceities with that fella who flounced off. Can't mind his name.
Eastie
-
"give peace a chance, all we are saying is, give peace a chance"
on the other hand, fuck the, windey windey you know the answer, sod off back to SHA and take your crappy moniker with you. ;D
-
"give peace a chance, all we are saying is, give peace a chance"
on the other hand, fuck the, windey windey you know the answer, sod off back to SHA and take your crappy moniker with you. ;D
If the majority of your comrades can reply civilly and informatively then why can't you?
As far as my moniker goes I think it's quite funny. You don't have to, of course.
-
Honestly, I think we started badly because we were disorganised, Sherwood had no idea how to prepare a team for the season. We got rid and replaced with Garde who wanted the team to be much fitter and was trying to focus on that but was struggling with the lack of professionalism of some of our players. In January he seemed to get something out of them but when he didn't get players in the window he seemed to lose a bit of focus and that translated to the players who, for me, saw him as a deadman walking and eased back on training, etc. That led to us taking a couple of beatings and him getting sacked. Finally Black acted up as caretaker and decided to try to defend his way to some points but with our ropey defence that was just a terrible decision.
That's pretty much as I remember it. The only thing I would add is that we went into the season with 5 new recruits from abroad, 4 of whom were first choice starters. Whilst they were good purchases, the best for quite a few transfer windows, but it was unduly optimistic to rely on them to be up and running from the off - especially as it is generally considered that imports take a good 6 months to get up to speed.
I don't subscribe to the notion that we went down because we missed Benteke's goals. We scored only 4 few goals compared to last season. What did for us was defence - we conceded 19 more.
-
I prefer not too look back, lets look forward. And despite half of Birmingham having pant explosions at our demise, im really looking forward to a season of second city derbies again. Seeing a nose on here reminded me how much I enjoyed the cup game last year. I just hope that after the pleasure we gave your lot last year by being so shit every week, you all take it in good grace when we do the double over you and smash the championship a new one! ;)
Birmingham City give me lots of hope for the coming season, a par for the course Championship club who made us look alot better than we are. Makes me think the gulf in quality between the two leagues is a bit bigger than we think....
-
The failure to get anywhere near replacing the player whose goals kept us up the last few years, that was for me the biggest contributing issue.
Not even trying to stay up in the January window was another. That was humiliating, the limp, pathetic surrender.
I think the above was the final nail in the coffin, however I'd add that a culture had developed at the club where there was limited accountability due to the absent owner.
I think that existed from top to bottom so for anyone to raise themselves above that 'meh' culture needed to have huge personal and professional pride. Sherwood's ego did that for a while (then backfired spectacularly) and Delph and Benteke maintained it for a few seasons but - that pride - probably made them more determined to leave once they'd got exhausted repeatedly watching others not matching their efforts.
-
There's more bluenoses on here than on Smallheathbutbigchipalliance these days.
-
There's more bluenoses on here than on Smallheathbutbigchipalliance these days.
There's more bluenoses on here than people on tbar.
-
Honestly, I think we started badly because we were disorganised, Sherwood had no idea how to prepare a team for the season. We got rid and replaced with Garde who wanted the team to be much fitter and was trying to focus on that but was struggling with the lack of professionalism of some of our players. In January he seemed to get something out of them but when he didn't get players in the window he seemed to lose a bit of focus and that translated to the players who, for me, saw him as a deadman walking and eased back on training, etc. That led to us taking a couple of beatings and him getting sacked. Finally Black acted up as caretaker and decided to try to defend his way to some points but with our ropey defence that was just a terrible decision.
That's pretty much as I remember it. The only thing I would add is that we went into the season with 5 new recruits from abroad, 4 of whom were first choice starters. Whilst they were good purchases, the best for quite a few transfer windows, but it was unduly optimistic to rely on them to be up and running from the off - especially as it is generally considered that imports take a good 6 months to get up to speed.
I'm not sure that is really the case. Fuchs, Kante and Okazaki seemed fine coming in at Leicester. Payet, Lanzini and Ogbonna had no problems at West Ham.
I don't really see it as much more than a convenient excuse.
I'm still pretty sure that if circumstance and better management had allowed Amavi, Ayew, Veretout, Gana and Traore to settle into the team then the season would have been considerably better than it was.
-
Amavi getting ACL knack in October, or whenever, was just stinking bad luck. Defensive duties aside he was comfortably our best player up until then.
-
Lads lads lads... A Birmingham City supporter 'innocently' poses the question 'Please explain to me why you are so rubbish?' (as if he doesn't have a clue). What follows are lots and lots of polite replies from Villa supporters detailing why indeed we were sh*t and describing in detail our sh*tness. Bet he's laughing his head off.. Easy trolling.
Come lads and lasses of H&V. Focus, Don't lose your shape, Clear your lines. This lot are easy to beat but you've got to concentrate. Don't get distracted or fooled. Be ruthless. Focus focus focus
-
There's more bluenoses on here than on Smallheathbutbigchipalliance these days.
Thank you for making me laugh, yet again, Herbert !
-
Honestly, I think we started badly because we were disorganised, Sherwood had no idea how to prepare a team for the season. We got rid and replaced with Garde who wanted the team to be much fitter and was trying to focus on that but was struggling with the lack of professionalism of some of our players. In January he seemed to get something out of them but when he didn't get players in the window he seemed to lose a bit of focus and that translated to the players who, for me, saw him as a deadman walking and eased back on training, etc. That led to us taking a couple of beatings and him getting sacked. Finally Black acted up as caretaker and decided to try to defend his way to some points but with our ropey defence that was just a terrible decision.
That's pretty much as I remember it. The only thing I would add is that we went into the season with 5 new recruits from abroad, 4 of whom were first choice starters. Whilst they were good purchases, the best for quite a few transfer windows, but it was unduly optimistic to rely on them to be up and running from the off - especially as it is generally considered that imports take a good 6 months to get up to speed.
I'm not sure that is really the case. Fuchs, Kante and Okazaki seemed fine coming in at Leicester. Payet, Lanzini and Ogbonna had no problems at West Ham.
I don't really see it as much more than a convenient excuse.
I'm still pretty sure that if circumstance and better management had allowed Amavi, Ayew, Veretout, Gana and Traore to settle into the team then the season would have been considerably better than it was.
That's what I meant by having a manager who had no idea how to prepare the team for the season. We started last unfit, with the team split into cliques and with no plan for how to approach games and we saw a couple of months of what was, effectively, Sherwood throwing things at the wall to see what would stick. Even though he kept us up the year before I firmly believe Sherwood is easily the worst manager we've had in my time watching the club.
-
Lads lads lads... A Birmingham City supporter 'innocently' poses the question 'Please explain to me why you are so rubbish?' (as if he doesn't have a clue). What follows are lots and lots of polite replies from Villa supporters detailing why indeed we were sh*t and describing in detail our sh*tness. Bet he's laughing his head off.. Easy trolling.
Come lads and lasses of H&V. Focus, Don't lose your shape, Clear your lines. This lot are easy to beat but you've got to concentrate. Don't get distracted or fooled. Be ruthless. Focus focus focus
This.
-
Amavi getting ACL knack in October, or whenever, was just stinking bad luck. Defensive duties aside he was comfortably our best player up until then.
It was, but I remember moaning before the transfer window closed that we should've signed an extra left-back as cover. The previous year we ended up with Richardson playing there and then loaned out Bennett and Cissokho. It was foolhardy not to sign an extra option.
-
Honestly, I think we started badly because we were disorganised, Sherwood had no idea how to prepare a team for the season. We got rid and replaced with Garde who wanted the team to be much fitter and was trying to focus on that but was struggling with the lack of professionalism of some of our players. In January he seemed to get something out of them but when he didn't get players in the window he seemed to lose a bit of focus and that translated to the players who, for me, saw him as a deadman walking and eased back on training, etc. That led to us taking a couple of beatings and him getting sacked. Finally Black acted up as caretaker and decided to try to defend his way to some points but with our ropey defence that was just a terrible decision.
I was talking to a client on Friday (Spurs fan) who met Kyle Walker, Aaron Lennon and Danny Rose in a casino not long after Pochettino arrived at WHL. He said Walker ignored him, Lennon was an actual knob but Rose was pretty sound and chatty. He asked him (Rose) what life was like under Poch. Rose said it was different, intense and there was a bit of ambivalence as there was no evidence at the time that the hard work would pay off. He apparently added 'it's very different to Tim Sherwood. He just let us do what we wanted."
I think that's what went wrong for us.
I think that's exactly what it was. We gave over our pre-season preparation to a complete chancer.
Bingo. Complete lack of preseason for a squad that mostly needed to be firing on all cylinders to stand a chance compared to half a season in north London with a squad that could pretty much have sleepwalked into top 8.
-
Amavi getting ACL knack in October, or whenever, was just stinking bad luck. Defensive duties aside he was comfortably our best player up until then.
I think that and Adama getting injured really took the wind out of our sails. They both looked really promising.
-
Amavi getting ACL knack in October, or whenever, was just stinking bad luck. Defensive duties aside he was comfortably our best player up until then.
I think that and Adama getting injured really took the wind out of our sails. They both looked really promising.
Sorry but our overseas supporters are from Shanghai and Beijing now. Your posts will no longer be read.
-
Honestly, I think we started badly because we were disorganised, Sherwood had no idea how to prepare a team for the season. We got rid and replaced with Garde who wanted the team to be much fitter and was trying to focus on that but was struggling with the lack of professionalism of some of our players. In January he seemed to get something out of them but when he didn't get players in the window he seemed to lose a bit of focus and that translated to the players who, for me, saw him as a deadman walking and eased back on training, etc. That led to us taking a couple of beatings and him getting sacked. Finally Black acted up as caretaker and decided to try to defend his way to some points but with our ropey defence that was just a terrible decision.
That's pretty much as I remember it. The only thing I would add is that we went into the season with 5 new recruits from abroad, 4 of whom were first choice starters. Whilst they were good purchases, the best for quite a few transfer windows, but it was unduly optimistic to rely on them to be up and running from the off - especially as it is generally considered that imports take a good 6 months to get up to speed.
I'm not sure that is really the case. Fuchs, Kante and Okazaki seemed fine coming in at Leicester. Payet, Lanzini and Ogbonna had no problems at West Ham.
I don't really see it as much more than a convenient excuse.
I'm still pretty sure that if circumstance and better management had allowed Amavi, Ayew, Veretout, Gana and Traore to settle into the team then the season would have been considerably better than it was.
The settling in period has been debated here before. You either subscribe to it or not I suppose. Looking at the physicality and lack of fitness in the PL compared to other countries, I'd say it has legs. And yes, there will always be contradictory examples either way.
I'd say Gana and Ayew in particular took a while to bed in. It's anyone's guess as to whether a different manager would have made it any easier for them but, for example, the Ayew that finished the season was a much more influential player than the one that started it, and he doesn't strike me as the kind of player that needs excuses.
The imports are all good players, I am glad we have them - but taking them all in one go and expecting them to perform from the off was an enormous risk.