Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: trevor fisher on May 22, 2016, 01:13:10 PM

Title: fit and proper test
Post by: trevor fisher on May 22, 2016, 01:13:10 PM
The latest report on Tony Xia via MOMS says he has claimed in a TV interview to have and manager who has been offered the villa job, and this will wait for a week. MOMs says "this suggests that the 'fit and proper' ownership tests should be completed by then.

Does anyone have a clear guide to what the tests consist of? As far as I can see they are only about finance, after Michael Knighton tried to take over at Man United and was found not to have the money. So the rules came in. But they don't seem to cover other key issues, as Hicks and Gillett showed at Liverpool. Does anyone know what the tests are and where they can be found - and if they can be done in 10 days?

Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: robbyfvillain on May 22, 2016, 01:16:01 PM
The latest report on Tony Xia via MOMS says he has claimed in a TV interview to have and manager who has been offered the villa job, and this will wait for a week. MOMs says "this suggests that the 'fit and proper' ownership tests should be completed by then.

Does anyone have a clear guide to what the tests consist of? As far as I can see they are only about finance, after Michael Knighton tried to take over at Man United and was found not to have the money. So the rules came in. But they don't seem to cover other key issues, as Hicks and Gillett showed at Liverpool. Does anyone know what the tests are and where they can be found - and if they can be done in 10 days?
From Wikipedia
The Premier League has tighter restrictions than the rest of the Football League and Football Conference. In general, a businessman will fail the test if:

They have power or influence over another Football League club
They hold a significant interest in another Football League club
They become prohibited by law from being a director
They are filing for bankruptcy
They have been director of a club while it has suffered two or more unconnected events of insolvency
They have been a director of two or more clubs of which, while they have been director, has suffered an event of insolvency
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: aj2k77 on May 22, 2016, 01:18:36 PM
He's not going to fail the fit and proper test, he may turn out to be a nutter/dreamer/or get involved where he shouldn't but it appears he isn't a criminal and has some money.
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: Witton Warrior on May 22, 2016, 01:26:11 PM
The latest report on Tony Xia via MOMS says he has claimed in a TV interview to have and manager who has been offered the villa job, and this will wait for a week. MOMs says "this suggests that the 'fit and proper' ownership tests should be completed by then.

Does anyone have a clear guide to what the tests consist of? As far as I can see they are only about finance, after Michael Knighton tried to take over at Man United and was found not to have the money. So the rules came in. But they don't seem to cover other key issues, as Hicks and Gillett showed at Liverpool. Does anyone know what the tests are and where they can be found - and if they can be done in 10 days?
From Wikipedia
The Premier League has tighter restrictions than the rest of the Football League and Football Conference. In general, a businessman will fail the test if:

They have power or influence over another Football League club
They hold a significant interest in another Football League club
They become prohibited by law from being a director
They are filing for bankruptcy
They have been director of a club while it has suffered two or more unconnected events of insolvency
They have been a director of two or more clubs of which, while they have been director, has suffered an event of insolvency

I'm surprised there is nothing about any form of fraudulent activity, none payment of taxes or pending criminal charges?
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 22, 2016, 02:10:21 PM
Looks like he could walk that test. Then again, so could I. And I have zero money.
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: Davkaus on May 22, 2016, 03:14:23 PM
The latest report on Tony Xia via MOMS says he has claimed in a TV interview to have and manager who has been offered the villa job, and this will wait for a week. MOMs says "this suggests that the 'fit and proper' ownership tests should be completed by then.

Does anyone have a clear guide to what the tests consist of? As far as I can see they are only about finance, after Michael Knighton tried to take over at Man United and was found not to have the money. So the rules came in. But they don't seem to cover other key issues, as Hicks and Gillett showed at Liverpool. Does anyone know what the tests are and where they can be found - and if they can be done in 10 days?
From Wikipedia
The Premier League has tighter restrictions than the rest of the Football League and Football Conference. In general, a businessman will fail the test if:

They have power or influence over another Football League club
They hold a significant interest in another Football League club
They become prohibited by law from being a director
They are filing for bankruptcy
They have been director of a club while it has suffered two or more unconnected events of insolvency
They have been a director of two or more clubs of which, while they have been director, has suffered an event of insolvency

I'm surprised there is nothing about any form of fraudulent activity, none payment of taxes or pending criminal charges?

There is, there are all sorts of things not listed there, who'd have thought Wikipedia wouldn't be thorough and accurate?!

There's all sorts of convictions they're not allowed to have. The full test can be found if you search for the Football League Owners and directors test, I'm not allowed to link things yet, there's an excerpt below, but it covers quite a lot more. Nothing about money though, other than not being bankrupt.

Quote
I hereby declare that:
(i) I am not either directly or indirectly involved in or have power to determine or influence the
management or administration of another Football Club;
(ii) I am not subject to a disqualification order as a director of a UK registered company under
the Company Directors’ Disqualification Act 1986 (as amended);
(iii) I have not been convicted of any of the following offences, or where I have, this conviction
is now considered spent under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974;
OWNERS’ AND DIRECTORS’ TEST 2015-2016 311
(a) an offence involving a Dishonest Act;
(b) corruption;
(c) perverting the course of justice;
(d) committing a serious breach of any requirement under the Companies Act 1985
or 2006 or any statutory modification or re-enactment thereof;
(e) dishonestly receiving a programme broadcast from within the UK with intent to
avoid payment under Section 297 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988;
(f) admitting spectators to watch a football match at unlicensed premises under
Section 9 of the Football Spectators Act 1989;
(g) ticket touting under Section 166 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1964;
(h) conspiracy to commit any of the offences set out in paragraphs (a) to (g) above;
(i) any conviction for a like offence to any of the above offences by a competent court
having jurisdiction outside England and Wales.
(j) I am not currently the subject of any current criminal proceedings for any of the
offences detailed at items (a) to (i) above;
(iv) I am not a Registered Offender and am not required to notify personal information pursuant
to Part 2 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003;
(v) I am not subject to a banning order in accordance with Schedule 1 of the Football Spectators
Act 2000;
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: godzvilla on May 22, 2016, 04:11:47 PM
Perhaps because I live abroad I don´t understand this:
  (e) dishonestly receiving a programme broadcast from within the UK with intent to
avoid payment under Section 297 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988;


Is it something to do with the TV Licence , or hookey DVDs ?, would someone be so kind as to enlighten me, please?....Godzvilla!

Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 22, 2016, 04:39:02 PM
I'd guess it's to do with protecting the broadcasting rights of the FL. Not sure though.
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: Dave Cooper please on May 22, 2016, 08:07:08 PM
Is there any particular reason why you can't add your comments to an existing thread Trevor? We are discussing the takeover in a thread which has "takeover" in the title.
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: eamonn on May 22, 2016, 08:14:25 PM
Yes, it's a frownable offence if some of us are too lazy to wade through a thread and create new topics willy-nilly.
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: cdbearsfan on May 22, 2016, 08:20:52 PM
Is there any particular reason why you can't add your comments to an existing thread Trevor? We are discussing the takeover in a thread which has "takeover" in the title.

In fairness, this one was arguably worthy of its own thread and at least he's stopped signing his posts.
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: olaftab on May 23, 2016, 09:03:05 AM
Is there any particular reason why you can't add your comments to an existing thread Trevor? We are discussing the takeover in a thread which has "takeover" in the title.
Takeover what's this about takeover?
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: Ron Manager on May 23, 2016, 09:42:16 AM
Is there any particular reason why you can't add your comments to an existing thread Trevor? We are discussing the takeover in a thread which has "takeover" in the title.
Takeover what's this about takeover?
Keep up Aftab. Doug's thinking of selling!
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: trevor fisher on May 23, 2016, 10:27:40 PM
when Bob Dylan wrote "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows" he did not know about English football. I started this thread not to comment on the takeover but to get information on what the rules are. And the comments have been very useful.

I still don't understand the rules, but a couple of things are now clearer. The Premiership rules don't seem to apply, so I looked at the Financial Regulation section of the FA. I would welcome any views on what they mean, as they seem to me obscure, so perhaps the government is right to complain about the FA. But for us, as the Football League now beckons, The Leagues Owners and Directors Test has some clues, so that is probably the place to start. But I doubt Xia will have any problems as the rules stand, so the big issue is no longer the rules. As I am not a lawyer that is merely an opinion. The next few days will probably see Xia confirmed, but if not, then time to look at the rules more closely
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: Sexual Ealing on May 23, 2016, 11:21:52 PM
when Bob Dylan wrote "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows" he did not know about English football.

But what about when Falco wrote "Er war ein Virtuose. War ein Rockidol"? What about that, Trevor? WHAT ABOUT THAT?!
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: PeterWithe on May 23, 2016, 11:26:38 PM
Is there any particular reason why you can't add your comments to an existing thread Trevor? We are discussing the takeover in a thread which has "takeover" in the title.

You're simply, and knowingly, refusing to acknowledge how important Trevor is. For shame.
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: trevor fisher on May 24, 2016, 07:13:46 AM
If we are going to talk German pop artists, then Nena's 99 Red Balloons is the most relevant. Like the song says, its hard to tell the difference between 99 Red Balloons and the start of a nuclear attack. What is happening at Villa could be the start of a new era, or the slide into administration. I simply can't tell if Tony Xia has the resources to take us to #3 in the world.
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: brian green on May 24, 2016, 07:28:11 AM
Yes, that is all very well but before German pop art GMW Turner painted masterpieces in burnt umber and yellow ochre BECAUSE THEY WERE CHEAPER than cobalt blue and aquamarine.
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: Malandro on May 24, 2016, 10:12:44 AM
Yes, that is all very well but before German pop art GMW Turner painted masterpieces in burnt umber and yellow ochre BECAUSE THEY WERE CHEAPER than cobalt blue and aquamarine.

I buy Johnstones paint instead of Farrow & Ball for the same reason
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: Dave Javu on May 24, 2016, 10:25:14 AM
Lotus Health manufacture MSG. MSG also = Michael Schenker Group - dodgy 80s group featuring a quite mad German guitarist.

It all makes sense now.
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: Malandro on May 24, 2016, 10:30:03 AM
Lotus Health manufacture MSG. MSG also = Michael Schenker Group - dodgy 80s group featuring a quite mad German guitarist.

It all makes sense now.

This site constantly makes my brain hurt, but that must be healthy.
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: in exile on May 24, 2016, 02:01:47 PM
Lotus Health manufacture MSG. MSG also = Michael Schenker Group - dodgy 80s group featuring a quite mad German guitarist.

It all makes sense now.
Still going with just Schenker as the original member.
They played The Robin 2 in Bilston recently
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on May 24, 2016, 02:11:30 PM
If we are going to talk German pop artists, then Nena's 99 Red Balloons is the most relevant. Like the song says, its hard to tell the difference between 99 Red Balloons and the start of a nuclear attack.

I remember her hairy armpits as much as the song
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: adrenachrome on May 24, 2016, 04:01:14 PM
when Bob Dylan wrote "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows" he did not know about English football.

But what about when Falco wrote "Er war ein Virtuose. War ein Rockidol"? What about that, Trevor? WHAT ABOUT THAT?!

Zimmerman trumped that sheeaat with " He not busy being born is busy dying."
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: Villa in Denmark on May 24, 2016, 10:39:16 PM
Lotus Health manufacture MSG. MSG also = Michael Schenker Group - dodgy 80s group featuring a quite mad German guitarist.

It all makes sense now.

Particularly when you add in his stint in UFO, as some of the shit we come out with can only be the product of minds damaged by alien abductions.

(https://i.imgflip.com/7n1tj.jpg)

Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: trevor fisher on May 25, 2016, 10:17:37 AM
meanwhile, back at Villa, I am told that the PRemier League as well as the Football League are investigating Tony. However as we are only a PRemier League club till June 1st, they have to make a decision by then. So expect to know the PL view by June 1st.

Whether the Football League have to accept the decision I do not know. To go back to the core issue, the Fit and Proper Person Test is obscure, and the phrase is not used in the documents I have seen. So if anyone can find it, that would throw light on the processes.

The PL should make a decision by June 1st, if they are investigating as reported. But why should they report? The processes are as clear as mud
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on May 25, 2016, 10:34:20 AM
Lotus Health manufacture MSG. MSG also = Michael Schenker Group - dodgy 80s group featuring a quite mad German guitarist.

It all makes sense now.

Did they ever play Madison Square Garden? (MSG)
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: Dave on May 25, 2016, 11:17:18 AM
meanwhile, back at Villa, I am told that the PRemier League as well as the Football League are investigating Tony. However as we are only a PRemier League club till June 1st, they have to make a decision by then. So expect to know the PL view by June 1st.

Whether the Football League have to accept the decision I do not know. To go back to the core issue, the Fit and Proper Person Test is obscure, and the phrase is not used in the documents I have seen. So if anyone can find it, that would throw light on the processes.

Why not just look at reply #5 on this thread? Davkaus lays out the very clear and easily available criteria that they are using.
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on May 25, 2016, 11:23:31 AM
Thanks Trevor Fisher.  I would also like to know what criteria they are using for this test, if anyone can help with that, I would be grateful.
KV2
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: DaveD on May 25, 2016, 12:01:41 PM
"Fit and proper person" is standard terminology, we use it at Licensing. Each body will have its own detailed definition of what that means in their particular context.
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: Bottom Right 89 on May 25, 2016, 01:13:52 PM
A bit like when you need a passport in a hurry can Tony not just take his id and bank statements to the nearest FA office and get this test done and dusted? Its getting farcical now, each day that passes is another day we lose versus the competition in identifying new players and sorting out from the current squad who to keep, who to sell and who needs to go in a bin bag to the charity shop.
Title: Re: fit and proper test
Post by: Villa in Denmark on May 25, 2016, 02:00:09 PM
A bit like when you need a passport in a hurry can Tony not just take his id and bank statements to the nearest FA office and get this test done and dusted? Its getting farcical now, each day that passes is another day we lose versus the competition in identifying new players and sorting out from the current squad who to keep, who to sell and who needs to go in a bin bag to the charity shop.

Why is it getting farcical now?
We're in the hands of two organisations who love the chance to showboat a bit of bureaucracy, one of which can't officially begin processing the case before next Thursday.
 
If they approved him next Friday, there'd be uproar in some quarters that the process was a farce (it is anyway but that's another story). Not only must they go through the process, they need to be seen to go through the process. Middle of week after next is my guess.
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