Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Hookeysmith on April 21, 2016, 08:04:33 AM
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Spoke well of the club and made a few comments that only go to confirm the "Anarchy" behind the scenes.
Stated that he had spoken directly to Gabby about his lack of condition and was told arrogantly that he would look after his own conditioning - its obvious Gabby has a real attitude problem but it also shows that the likes of Sherwood and Wilkins were weak when it came to discipline and that is evident in the performances.
Adama - Stated by Wilkins that he felt Andre Green was a better prospect but he got injured in pre season and "the club" decided he was a better option - now on £60K per week with no relegation clause.
Why Wilkins feels he could say all this without shouldering any of the blame is pathetic but it gives an insight into how toxic it must have been at BMH. He said he visited last week and the atmosphere was a solemn one as so many know they are to be out of a job
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Used to enjoy listening to his thoughts on football, but since his time with us I can't listen to him any more. He's just in a long line of people who I don't want to hear talking about our plight.
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Another bitter ex
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I always liked Wilkins but his complete "It was not us guv" role in our demise I find quite sickening.
If cnuts like Gabby was a main culprit in the background issues at the club - why did him and Sherwood not say or do anything about it?
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Thanks for that Ray, so in other words you and Sherwood were not men enough to deal with the likes of Gabby, so you turned a blind eye / deaf ear to the problem....hoping it would go away!!!! Too much passing of the buck
Also I don't understand why we brought Adama, if Green is a better prospect, even if Green had of been fit he would never have played in 20+ games for us this season
Just another total disgrace and totally inept management
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I'm another who has no interest in what he has to say. First time Sherwood appeared as a pundit he stated that "'IF' they can get Agbonlahor fit and keep him fit they will be fine", wasn't it his job to make sure the players were fit in time for the start of the season?
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Even if it was 30-odd years ago, in this day and age it's going to be difficult to command respect in a dressing room if you were widely known as being "Butch".
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The thing that makes me smile just after he had been sacked along with Sherwood, he was saying what a fantastic bunch the players were, and he also praised the work of the fitness coaches!
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Always be cautious when a person addresses another with the word 'matey'
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Always be cautious when a person addresses another with the word 'matey'
Ha. Matey, brings back a memory of a brand of bath foam for kids when I was a nipper.
(http://www.simplyeighties.com/resources/Matey%20Bubble%20Bath%2070s.jpg.opt175x326o0,0s175x326.jpg)
Hello sailor.
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think this all a bit harsh on Wilkins and Sherwood.
Sherwood got us out of a hole last season and had his hands tied transfer wise. Coupled with players bombing out of the club at short notice not a lot he could do other than pander to the likes of fat Gabby.
As for Wilkins who actually knows his influence on the training pitch and the club.
Give me them two over the Frenchman any day.
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They should have been fining Gabby a weeks wages every time he turned up on a Monday unfit for purpose. Instead of being so weak that they let him get away with it.
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think this all a bit harsh on Wilkins and Sherwood.
Sherwood got us out of a hole last season and had his hands tied transfer wise. Coupled with players bombing out of the club at short notice not a lot he could do other than pander to the likes of fat Gabby.
As for Wilkins who actually knows his influence on the training pitch and the club.
Give me them two over the Frenchman any day.
Sorry - he had his hands tied transferwise?
He personally chose Richards, Gestede and Lescott. That's right - he thought Rudy Gestede was worth £5 million. And was in the press taking credit for the signings of Traore and Veretout - been tracking them for years apparently.
Who knows Wilkins' influence over the training pitch and club? Anyone who has watched Villa this season. He had no influence.
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think this all a bit harsh on Wilkins and Sherwood.
Sherwood got us out of a hole last season and had his hands tied transfer wise. Coupled with players bombing out of the club at short notice not a lot he could do other than pander to the likes of fat Gabby.
As for Wilkins who actually knows his influence on the training pitch and the club.
Give me them two over the Frenchman any day.
Really? The French man who saw the piss poor attitudes of the highly paid wankers and tried to change it.
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I think a lot of what has come out in recent weeks shows that the tail has been wagging the dog for quite some time.
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They should have been fining Gabby a weeks wages every time he turned up on a Monday unfit for purpose. Instead of being so weak that they let him get away with it.
That part I do agree with 100%
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Another bitter ex
I've handled plenty of those.
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Meh!
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Useless brown nose, Chelsea twat. Fuck off.
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Useless brown nose, Chelsea twat. Fuck off.
Not a fan then?
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Always be cautious when a person addresses another with the word 'matey'
100% this. It's a massive warning sign for me.
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Always be cautious when a person addresses another with the word 'matey'
100% this. It's a massive warning sign for me.
Never trust a man in a dressing gown.
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If anything the last couple of number 2's seemed to make us worse rather than helping us progress. Sherwood was horrendous with Wilkins on his team.
Garde's side seemed to get progressively shitter after Black joined.
Number 2's is the right way to describe them.
As for the Green thing. Wilkins sees these press stories about Arsenal being interested. Then claims he and Timmy could see the promise and no doubt he and Sherwood would claim some credit in the event an unlikely transfer did happen.
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think this all a bit harsh on Wilkins and Sherwood.
Sherwood got us out of a hole last season and had his hands tied transfer wise. Coupled with players bombing out of the club at short notice not a lot he could do other than pander to the likes of fat Gabby.
As for Wilkins who actually knows his influence on the training pitch and the club.
Give me them two over the Frenchman any day.
Sorry - he had his hands tied transferwise?
He personally chose Richards, Gestede and Lescott. That's right - he thought Rudy Gestede was worth £5 million. And was in the press taking credit for the signings of Traore and Veretout - been tracking them for years apparently.
Who knows Wilkins' influence over the training pitch and club? Anyone who has watched Villa this season. He had no influence.
Spot on let's not forget who brought those three in. I want to weep when anyone mentions Gestede and 5 million in the same sentence. Surely the worst business ever ??
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If Wilkins and Sherwood thought so much of Green then howcome he didn't get a fucking look in?
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think this all a bit harsh on Wilkins and Sherwood.
Sherwood got us out of a hole last season and had his hands tied transfer wise. Coupled with players bombing out of the club at short notice not a lot he could do other than pander to the likes of fat Gabby.
As for Wilkins who actually knows his influence on the training pitch and the club.
Give me them two over the Frenchman any day.
Sorry - he had his hands tied transferwise?
He personally chose Richards, Gestede and Lescott. That's right - he thought Rudy Gestede was worth £5 million. And was in the press taking credit for the signings of Traore and Veretout - been tracking them for years apparently.
Who knows Wilkins' influence over the training pitch and club? Anyone who has watched Villa this season. He had no influence.
Spot on let's not forget who brought those three in. I want to weep when anyone mentions Gestede and 5 million in the same sentence. Surely the worst business ever ??
I think it was more than 5m.
And that whole "yeah but Tim never wanted the French players" line is based on a misconception that they're the players who have let us down, rather than the likes of that fat ****** Agbonlahor, Lescott the pocket tweeter and Richards the useless fucking lump.
Those are the players most responsible for our demise, not the likes of Amavi, Ayew, Gana, Veretout.
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think this all a bit harsh on Wilkins and Sherwood.
Sherwood got us out of a hole last season and had his hands tied transfer wise. Coupled with players bombing out of the club at short notice not a lot he could do other than pander to the likes of fat Gabby.
As for Wilkins who actually knows his influence on the training pitch and the club.
Give me them two over the Frenchman any day.
Sorry - he had his hands tied transferwise?
He personally chose Richards, Gestede and Lescott. That's right - he thought Rudy Gestede was worth £5 million. And was in the press taking credit for the signings of Traore and Veretout - been tracking them for years apparently.
Who knows Wilkins' influence over the training pitch and club? Anyone who has watched Villa this season. He had no influence.
Spot on let's not forget who brought those three in. I want to weep when anyone mentions Gestede and 5 million in the same sentence. Surely the worst business ever ??
Yep.
Just for an added spot of misery, his quotes on his signings
On Richards
"I'm really pleased to get Micah on board and I'm sure he will prove to be an excellent signing for the football club. Micah is a winner. He helped Manchester City win their first Premier League title in 44 years, has won the FA Cup and has played in the Champions League.
On Gestede
"I've known about Rudy since he was at Cardiff and he is a player I've always admired," said Sherwood. "His goalscoring ratio last season was fantastic and he is someone who certainly knows how to find the back of the net."
On the players that he was 'forced to sign'
Traore - He's someone I have been tracking for a long time. He's physically a man - and he has been for some time.
Gueye - "I'm really pleased to have brought Idrissa on board. He's been one of the best young midfielders in France for the last few seasons and there were a lot of teams trying to sign him this summer.
Amavi - "It’s someone we’ve been tracking for a long time."
Crespo - "José is a player who has been on our radar for some time and we’re really pleased to secure his signature"
Ayew - “I’m really pleased to bring Jordan to the football club. He is a fantastic young player who is perfectly suited to the Premier League.”
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Did Tim choose players or did Reilly? .Did Butch coach or eat donuts in the canteen?
These are questions we will never know the answers to and frankly given the chaos revealed at our club in the past few days ut probably doesn't matter.
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Obviously, a few days is a long time in Sherwoodland
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Did Tim choose players or did Reilly? .Did Butch coach or eat donuts in the canteen?
These are questions we will never know the answers to and frankly given the chaos revealed at our club in the past few days ut probably doesn't matter.
I thought that the generally accepted sequence was, just like at pretty much all clubs:
1. Sherwood says something along the lines of "I need a left back, a centre midfield, a centre forward and someone who can play wide forward."
2. Riley has a look in his box of tricks and turns up a few players that fit the bill Sherwood has specified.
3. Sherwood picks the ones he wants based on scouting reports, footage, stats database profile. At that point in time he wouldn't be able to watch them live unless it was started well in advance of season end.
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It's common knowledge that the "recruitment staff" (paddy reilly)was far too influencial in the summer. It's been discussed at length on here. Gabby seems to have retired on full pay an unless the heigherarchy do something about it he is pretty much uncontrollable. It's all water under the bridge now. We need the current situation dealing with pronto. Sky sports reporting a 100M takeover being imminent so for me it's time to move on and reclaim our Aston Villa.
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think this all a bit harsh on Wilkins and Sherwood.
Sherwood got us out of a hole last season and had his hands tied transfer wise. Coupled with players bombing out of the club at short notice not a lot he could do other than pander to the likes of fat Gabby.
As for Wilkins who actually knows his influence on the training pitch and the club.
Give me them two over the Frenchman any day.
Sorry - he had his hands tied transferwise?
He personally chose Richards, Gestede and Lescott. That's right - he thought Rudy Gestede was worth £5 million. And was in the press taking credit for the signings of Traore and Veretout - been tracking them for years apparently.
Who knows Wilkins' influence over the training pitch and club? Anyone who has watched Villa this season. He had no influence.
Spot on let's not forget who brought those three in. I want to weep when anyone mentions Gestede and 5 million in the same sentence. Surely the worst business ever ??
I think it was more than 5m.
And that whole "yeah but Tim never wanted the French players" line is based on a misconception that they're the players who have let us down, rather than the likes of that fat c*** Agbonlahor, Lescott the pocket tweeter and Richards the useless fucking lump.
Those are the players most responsible for our demise, not the likes of Amavi, Ayew, Gana, Veretout.
Correct - Tim wanted Richards and Lescott I take it.
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It's common knowledge that the "recruitment staff" (paddy reilly)was far too influencial in the summer. It's been discussed at length on here.
Is it? If anything the "recruitment staff" seem to have recruited some of our more talented players of the incoming transfers - Amavi, Ayew, Gana, Traore, Veretout. The "football staff" seem to have landed us with Micah "The Big I Am" Richards, Joleon "Run? You must be joking" Lescott and a striker with the movement and ball skills of a lampost.
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Sherwood was hardly gonna announce those signings as "I didn't actually want him but I'll take him anyway" now was he?
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I reckon what ViD says is pretty much how it was. I don't believe for a second they signed players without input from Sherwood.
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Sherwood was hardly gonna announce those signings as "I didn't actually want him but I'll take him anyway" now was he?
No. So "He's a promising player and I'm sure he'll help the squad" would have been fine.
"I've been tracking him for years", "I tried to sign him for Tottenham" etc is a little different.
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I'm sure we signed players with input from Sherwood as well but I'm also sure we signed players without his input to, which is absolute madness and is always gonna end in tear eventually.
I don't like this 'moneyball system', I'd prefer a strong manager who chooses his players on his own judgement or people he trusts.
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Good job we never used the moneyball system then.
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I'm sure we signed players with input from Sherwood as well but I'm also sure we signed players without his input to, which is absolute madness and is always gonna end in tear eventually.
I don't like this 'moneyball system', I'd prefer a strong manager who chooses his players on his own judgement or people he trusts.
Veretout said, after Sherwood got sacked, that he never spoke to him.
Regardless of whether Sherwood chased Veretout for months, or Reilly signed him on the back of a weird dream, or that student in Australia 'scouted' him for us, for Sherwood to decide not to talk to a player we'd invested money in is criminal.
I recall at Spurs there were the exact same stories about him and Lamela.
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think this all a bit harsh on Wilkins and Sherwood.
Sherwood got us out of a hole last season and had his hands tied transfer wise. Coupled with players bombing out of the club at short notice not a lot he could do other than pander to the likes of fat Gabby.
As for Wilkins who actually knows his influence on the training pitch and the club.
Give me them two over the Frenchman any day.
Sorry - he had his hands tied transferwise?
He personally chose Richards, Gestede and Lescott. That's right - he thought Rudy Gestede was worth £5 million. And was in the press taking credit for the signings of Traore and Veretout - been tracking them for years apparently.
Who knows Wilkins' influence over the training pitch and club? Anyone who has watched Villa this season. He had no influence.
Spot on let's not forget who brought those three in. I want to weep when anyone mentions Gestede and 5 million in the same sentence. Surely the worst business ever ??
Yep.
Just for an added spot of misery, his quotes on his signings
On Richards
"I'm really pleased to get Micah on board and I'm sure he will prove to be an excellent signing for the football club. Micah is a winner. He helped Manchester City win their first Premier League title in 44 years, has won the FA Cup and has played in the Champions League.
On Gestede
"I've known about Rudy since he was at Cardiff and he is a player I've always admired," said Sherwood. "His goalscoring ratio last season was fantastic and he is someone who certainly knows how to find the back of the net."
On the players that he was 'forced to sign'
Traore - He's someone I have been tracking for a long time. He's physically a man - and he has been for some time.
Gueye - "I'm really pleased to have brought Idrissa on board. He's been one of the best young midfielders in France for the last few seasons and there were a lot of teams trying to sign him this summer.
Amavi - "It’s someone we’ve been tracking for a long time."
Crespo - "José is a player who has been on our radar for some time and we’re really pleased to secure his signature"
Ayew - “I’m really pleased to bring Jordan to the football club. He is a fantastic young player who is perfectly suited to the Premier League.”
Whether he was involved or not - what the fuck else is he going to say ?
I don't give our managers a free pass, but you have to look at the long track and decide if they were really the root cause or just another symptom.
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Whether he was involved or not - what the fuck else is he going to say ?
I don't give our managers a free pass, but you have to look at the long track and decide if they were really the root cause or just another symptom.
As I said in my previous post, there is a difference between 'he's a player with potential' and 'I tried to sign him for my previous club, I've been tracking him for years'. That's what he could have said.
Also, the comments highlighted regarding Gestede and Richards were almost the polar opposite to what we have come to find out about them.
I'm not sure if you have read back further, but the post was in reply to a poster saying we were being harsh on Sherwood, he had operated with his hands tied behind his back and he was much better than 'the Frenchman'. The point I was making was that Sherwood was firmly involved in constructing the squad, in particular purchasing two of the major causes of unrest in the dressing room, and was much more to blame for this season than Remi Garde.
I would question 'symptom' and rather say 'contributory cause'. No, Sherwood couldn't have made up for Lerner's poor management. But signing a striker rather than Gestede, and bringing influences like Lescott and Richards into the dressing room didn't help. Neither did ostracising the French players thus encouraging the obvious cliques that formed. Lerner didn't cause Sherwood to make those mistakes, Sherwood made them because he's a poor manager.
You're right, the result of the season is the end game of the mismanagement of the club. But taking this season in isolation, we would have been a damn sight better off without Sherwood's mistakes, Lerner or no Lerner.
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This is just what we're going to have to deal with. Everyone will have their side to the story: what we'll have to do is find all the bits they don't want us to know and piece then together to form one incompetent whole: that's the most likely to be true.
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This is just what we're going to have to deal with. Everyone will have their side to the story: what we'll have to do is find all the bits they don't want us to know and piece then together to form one incompetent whole: that's the most likely to be true.
Undoubtedly there's far more to come, isn't there? I have the feeling that over the next couple of months we'll be even more gobsmacked at some of the stuff that emerges.
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Ray Wilkins, captain of Hindsight United.
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Ray Wilkins, captain of Hindsight United.
I thought that. So desperate to reveal a scoop and maintain some sort of celebrity relevance he didn't seem to realise that he was basically criticising his own management.
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We can file Wilkins under the never ending list of fuckwits who have been associated with Villa in the last 5 years.
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It's common knowledge that the "recruitment staff" (paddy reilly)was far too influencial in the summer. It's been discussed at length on here.
Is it? If anything the "recruitment staff" seem to have recruited some of our more talented players of the incoming transfers - Amavi, Ayew, Gana, Traore, Veretout. The "football staff" seem to have landed us with Micah "The Big I Am" Richards, Joleon "Run? You must be joking" Lescott and a striker with the movement and ball skills of a lampost.
Oh ok then I must of got the wrong end of the stick. I thought the recruitment policy was a big fuck up in the summer. As it's been such a big success we need to carry on with it. The new manager will just have to live with it. Good old Paddy Reilly.
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It's common knowledge that the "recruitment staff" (paddy reilly)was far too influencial in the summer. It's been discussed at length on here.
Is it? If anything the "recruitment staff" seem to have recruited some of our more talented players of the incoming transfers - Amavi, Ayew, Gana, Traore, Veretout. The "football staff" seem to have landed us with Micah "The Big I Am" Richards, Joleon "Run? You must be joking" Lescott and a striker with the movement and ball skills of a lampost.
Oh ok then I must of got the wrong end of the stick. I thought the recruitment policy was a big fuck up in the summer. As it's been such a big success we need to carry on with it. The new manager will just have to live with it. Good old Paddy Reilly.
No, you didn't get the wrong end of the stick. It was just your opinion. As the above is mine.
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It's common knowledge that the "recruitment staff" (paddy reilly)was far too influencial in the summer. It's been discussed at length on here.
Is it? If anything the "recruitment staff" seem to have recruited some of our more talented players of the incoming transfers - Amavi, Ayew, Gana, Traore, Veretout. The "football staff" seem to have landed us with Micah "The Big I Am" Richards, Joleon "Run? You must be joking" Lescott and a striker with the movement and ball skills of a lampost.
Oh ok then I must of got the wrong end of the stick. I thought the recruitment policy was a big fuck up in the summer. As it's been such a big success we need to carry on with it. The new manager will just have to live with it. Good old Paddy Reilly.
No, you didn't get the wrong end of the stick. It was just your opinion. As the above is mine.
so is it your opinion that having a recruitment team selecting players for the manager instead of the traditional method of the manager identifying his own players a good thing? Gestede might be a big lump but we know that TS/RW wanted Lennon and Townsend. With them supplying the ball things might have turned out very differently this season.
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The recruitment last summer was an overall disaster. This does not mean that every purchase was a bad one.
The buying and selling did not go far enough. I'm still convinced that if we had spent another £20m in the right areas, we would have been ok. As it was, we were left with a hopelessly unbalanced squad and even short on numbers once some went out on loan. There were mistakes in some buys, both in ability and character.
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It's common knowledge that the "recruitment staff" (paddy reilly)was far too influencial in the summer. It's been discussed at length on here.
Is it? If anything the "recruitment staff" seem to have recruited some of our more talented players of the incoming transfers - Amavi, Ayew, Gana, Traore, Veretout. The "football staff" seem to have landed us with Micah "The Big I Am" Richards, Joleon "Run? You must be joking" Lescott and a striker with the movement and ball skills of a lampost.
Oh ok then I must of got the wrong end of the stick. I thought the recruitment policy was a big fuck up in the summer. As it's been such a big success we need to carry on with it. The new manager will just have to live with it. Good old Paddy Reilly.
No, you didn't get the wrong end of the stick. It was just your opinion. As the above is mine.
so is it your opinion that having a recruitment team selecting players for the manager instead of the traditional method of the manager identifying his own players a good thing?
That would be a bad thing, but that's not what happens. They're not "selecting" players they're suggesting players.
Sherwood says "I want a new winger, how about Townsend?" Recruitment team says "we're being quoted £15m and £80,000 per week which is more than we can afford. Here are a bunch of similar players who are inside what we can afford, here is what is good about them and bad about them - which one should we move forward with?"
The same way as nearly every other team in the league does it. Presumably you think that Leicester shouldn't be doing it this way either?
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I'm sure we signed players with input from Sherwood as well but I'm also sure we signed players without his input to, which is absolute madness and is always gonna end in tear eventually.
I don't like this 'moneyball system', I'd prefer a strong manager who chooses his players on his own judgement or people he trusts.
Do you really think that a gobshite like Sherwood would have gone all the way through the summer and well into the season without briefing against that sort of policy through his media mates.
This explanation / excuse was first floated once it was obvious we were in deep shit and a certain chancer was already eyeing his next move because this one was already FUBAR.
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It's common knowledge that the "recruitment staff" (paddy reilly)was far too influencial in the summer. It's been discussed at length on here.
Is it? If anything the "recruitment staff" seem to have recruited some of our more talented players of the incoming transfers - Amavi, Ayew, Gana, Traore, Veretout. The "football staff" seem to have landed us with Micah "The Big I Am" Richards, Joleon "Run? You must be joking" Lescott and a striker with the movement and ball skills of a lampost.
Oh ok then I must of got the wrong end of the stick. I thought the recruitment policy was a big fuck up in the summer. As it's been such a big success we need to carry on with it. The new manager will just have to live with it. Good old Paddy Reilly.
No, you didn't get the wrong end of the stick. It was just your opinion. As the above is mine.
so is it your opinion that having a recruitment team selecting players for the manager instead of the traditional method of the manager identifying his own players a good thing? Gestede might be a big lump but we know that TS/RW wanted Lennon and Townsend. With them supplying the ball things might have turned out very differently this season.
A traditional method that'a not been used above league 1 for years. (Apart from MON who didn't need a passport.) Keeping track of every player that might be suitable, now that you're potentially recruiting from around the world is a full time job for a number of people.
To be honest I'd be pretty pissed off if the manager was devoting time to that instead of preparing the team for the next game and checking who in the U-21s might be ready to step up.
And for all of this pisstaking about Riley, the one thing that's become abundantly clear over the last couple of months is that the biggest single problem at the club is a split dressing room and a general atmosphere of "mediocrity is something to aspire to", but don't worry, this a holiday camp, not a boot camp. Something that's been hanging around since the arse end of MON's days going on the reports of Agbonlahor returning from international calls ups.
For all we've missed the likes of Barry, Milner and Petrov, maybe even Ratus Ratus as footballers, we've missed them even more as professionals.
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It's common knowledge that the "recruitment staff" (paddy reilly)was far too influencial in the summer. It's been discussed at length on here.
Is it? If anything the "recruitment staff" seem to have recruited some of our more talented players of the incoming transfers - Amavi, Ayew, Gana, Traore, Veretout. The "football staff" seem to have landed us with Micah "The Big I Am" Richards, Joleon "Run? You must be joking" Lescott and a striker with the movement and ball skills of a lampost.
Oh ok then I must of got the wrong end of the stick. I thought the recruitment policy was a big fuck up in the summer. As it's been such a big success we need to carry on with it. The new manager will just have to live with it. Good old Paddy Reilly.
No, you didn't get the wrong end of the stick. It was just your opinion. As the above is mine.
so is it your opinion that having a recruitment team selecting players for the manager instead of the traditional method of the manager identifying his own players a good thing?
That would be a bad thing, but that's not what happens. They're not "selecting" players they're suggesting players.
Sherwood says "I want a new winger, how about Townsend?" Recruitment team says "we're being quoted £15m and £80,000 per week which is more than we can afford. Here are a bunch of similar players who are inside what we can afford, here is what is good about them and bad about them - which one should we move forward with?"
The same way as nearly every other team in the league does it. Presumably you think that Leicester shouldn't be doing it this way either?
What he said.
As for my opinion, my opinion is that the players who were signed using this method actually were mostly okay. The players who were signed last summer, and this summer from Sherwood's suggestions, were mostly shit.
Who have been our worst / most problematic players this year? Gabby, Richards, Lescott, Guzan, Bacuna, Gestede. None of them signings ascribed to being suggestions from the 'committee' such as it was/wasn't.
The problem with the recruitment last summer was two-fold in my view:
1. The failure to sign a first choice goalkeeper, and the failure to sign a first choice striker who wasn't Rudy Gestede (I class Ayew as more of a link-up forward, good player though he is).
2. The 'winners' who Sherwood brought in to provide experience and solid pros in the squad have proved actually to not be winners, but wankers of the highest order.
I'm not saying we would have won the league if the two points above had been addressed, obviously the club would still have been being run badly, but we would have been a sight closer to surviving.
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It's common knowledge that the "recruitment staff" (paddy reilly)was far too influencial in the summer. It's been discussed at length on here.
Is it? If anything the "recruitment staff" seem to have recruited some of our more talented players of the incoming transfers - Amavi, Ayew, Gana, Traore, Veretout. The "football staff" seem to have landed us with Micah "The Big I Am" Richards, Joleon "Run? You must be joking" Lescott and a striker with the movement and ball skills of a lampost.
Oh ok then I must of got the wrong end of the stick. I thought the recruitment policy was a big fuck up in the summer. As it's been such a big success we need to carry on with it. The new manager will just have to live with it. Good old Paddy Reilly.
No, you didn't get the wrong end of the stick. It was just your opinion. As the above is mine.
so is it your opinion that having a recruitment team selecting players for the manager instead of the traditional method of the manager identifying his own players a good thing? Gestede might be a big lump but we know that TS/RW wanted Lennon and Townsend. With them supplying the ball things might have turned out very differently this season.
Ahh yes, two former Tottenham players, how creative of Tim.
Apart from the fact that Lennon and Townsend aren't exactly pulling up tree's at their respective clubs, one of which is massively underperforming and the other is more than likely going to go down with us, the fee's and wages of both those players would have both been way too much for the budget that Sherwood would no doubt have been made aware of from the outset.
As we have seen this season, a good scouting network is worth its weight in gold, look at Leicester, Spurs, West Ham,all bought players very cheaply who have massively over performed this season in respect of their fees.
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The recruitment last summer was an overall disaster. This does not mean that every purchase was a bad one.
The buying and selling did not go far enough. I'm still convinced that if we had spent another £20m in the right areas, we would have been ok. As it was, we were left with a hopelessly unbalanced squad and even short on numbers once some went out on loan. There were mistakes in some buys, both in ability and character.
yep and someone like Cambiasso would have done us lots of good
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It's common knowledge that the "recruitment staff" (paddy reilly)was far too influencial in the summer. It's been discussed at length on here.
Is it? If anything the "recruitment staff" seem to have recruited some of our more talented players of the incoming transfers - Amavi, Ayew, Gana, Traore, Veretout. The "football staff" seem to have landed us with Micah "The Big I Am" Richards, Joleon "Run? You must be joking" Lescott and a striker with the movement and ball skills of a lampost.
Oh ok then I must of got the wrong end of the stick. I thought the recruitment policy was a big fuck up in the summer. As it's been such a big success we need to carry on with it. The new manager will just have to live with it. Good old Paddy Reilly.
No, you didn't get the wrong end of the stick. It was just your opinion. As the above is mine.
so is it your opinion that having a recruitment team selecting players for the manager instead of the traditional method of the manager identifying his own players a good thing? Gestede might be a big lump but we know that TS/RW wanted Lennon and Townsend. With them supplying the ball things might have turned out very differently this season.
Ahh yes, two former Tottenham players, how creative of Tim.
Apart from the fact that Lennon and Townsend aren't exactly pulling up tree's at their respective clubs, one of which is massively underperforming and the other is more than likely going to go down with us, the fee's and wages of both those players would have both been way too much for the budget that Sherwood would no doubt have been made aware of from the outset.
As we have seen this season, a good scouting network is worth its weight in gold, look at Leicester, Spurs, West Ham,all bought players very cheaply who have massively over performed this season in respect of their fees.
Well obviously a good scouting network
is vital if you are to be successful. The moneyball system which is what we are talking about is a totally flawed system. Managers dont just go on stats. It's about blending a bunch of players to form a team. Like Leicester have.
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It's common knowledge that the "recruitment staff" (paddy reilly)was far too influencial in the summer. It's been discussed at length on here.
Is it? If anything the "recruitment staff" seem to have recruited some of our more talented players of the incoming transfers - Amavi, Ayew, Gana, Traore, Veretout. The "football staff" seem to have landed us with Micah "The Big I Am" Richards, Joleon "Run? You must be joking" Lescott and a striker with the movement and ball skills of a lampost.
Oh ok then I must of got the wrong end of the stick. I thought the recruitment policy was a big fuck up in the summer. As it's been such a big success we need to carry on with it. The new manager will just have to live with it. Good old Paddy Reilly.
No, you didn't get the wrong end of the stick. It was just your opinion. As the above is mine.
so is it your opinion that having a recruitment team selecting players for the manager instead of the traditional method of the manager identifying his own players a good thing? Gestede might be a big lump but we know that TS/RW wanted Lennon and Townsend. With them supplying the ball things might have turned out very differently this season.
Ahh yes, two former Tottenham players, how creative of Tim.
Apart from the fact that Lennon and Townsend aren't exactly pulling up tree's at their respective clubs, one of which is massively underperforming and the other is more than likely going to go down with us, the fee's and wages of both those players would have both been way too much for the budget that Sherwood would no doubt have been made aware of from the outset.
As we have seen this season, a good scouting network is worth its weight in gold, look at Leicester, Spurs, West Ham,all bought players very cheaply who have massively over performed this season in respect of their fees.
Well obviously a good scouting network
is vital if you are to be successful. The moneyball system which is what we are talking about is a totally flawed system. Managers dont just go on stats. It's about blending a bunch of players to form a team. Like Leicester have.
So when Sherwood talked about having tracked and watched players for years, how does that fit into us using the moneyball system? Or only using stats?
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It's common knowledge that the "recruitment staff" (paddy reilly)was far too influencial in the summer. It's been discussed at length on here.
Is it? If anything the "recruitment staff" seem to have recruited some of our more talented players of the incoming transfers - Amavi, Ayew, Gana, Traore, Veretout. The "football staff" seem to have landed us with Micah "The Big I Am" Richards, Joleon "Run? You must be joking" Lescott and a striker with the movement and ball skills of a lampost.
Oh ok then I must of got the wrong end of the stick. I thought the recruitment policy was a big fuck up in the summer. As it's been such a big success we need to carry on with it. The new manager will just have to live with it. Good old Paddy Reilly.
No, you didn't get the wrong end of the stick. It was just your opinion. As the above is mine.
so is it your opinion that having a recruitment team selecting players for the manager instead of the traditional method of the manager identifying his own players a good thing?
That would be a bad thing, but that's not what happens. They're not "selecting" players they're suggesting players.
Sherwood says "I want a new winger, how about Townsend?" Recruitment team says "we're being quoted £15m and £80,000 per week which is more than we can afford. Here are a bunch of similar players who are inside what we can afford, here is what is good about them and bad about them - which one should we move forward with?"
The same way as nearly every other team in the league does it. Presumably you think that Leicester shouldn't be doing it this way either?
But it is what happened. The players bought in were not the ones Sherwood was after. If Leicester really did use that system then maybe it can work if it's done right. We did not do it right. That's why we will be in the championship next season.
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It's common knowledge that the "recruitment staff" (paddy reilly)was far too influencial in the summer. It's been discussed at length on here.
Is it? If anything the "recruitment staff" seem to have recruited some of our more talented players of the incoming transfers - Amavi, Ayew, Gana, Traore, Veretout. The "football staff" seem to have landed us with Micah "The Big I Am" Richards, Joleon "Run? You must be joking" Lescott and a striker with the movement and ball skills of a lampost.
Oh ok then I must of got the wrong end of the stick. I thought the recruitment policy was a big fuck up in the summer. As it's been such a big success we need to carry on with it. The new manager will just have to live with it. Good old Paddy Reilly.
No, you didn't get the wrong end of the stick. It was just your opinion. As the above is mine.
so is it your opinion that having a recruitment team selecting players for the manager instead of the traditional method of the manager identifying his own players a good thing? Gestede might be a big lump but we know that TS/RW wanted Lennon and Townsend. With them supplying the ball things might have turned out very differently this season.
Ahh yes, two former Tottenham players, how creative of Tim.
Apart from the fact that Lennon and Townsend aren't exactly pulling up tree's at their respective clubs, one of which is massively underperforming and the other is more than likely going to go down with us, the fee's and wages of both those players would have both been way too much for the budget that Sherwood would no doubt have been made aware of from the outset.
As we have seen this season, a good scouting network is worth its weight in gold, look at Leicester, Spurs, West Ham,all bought players very cheaply who have massively over performed this season in respect of their fees.
Well obviously a good scouting network
is vital if you are to be successful. The moneyball system which is what we are talking about is a totally flawed system. Managers dont just go on stats. It's about blending a bunch of players to form a team. Like Leicester have.
So when Sherwood talked about having tracked and watched players for years, how does that fit into us using the moneyball system? Or only using stats?
Well I'll just stick to agreeing with what Nigel Spink said on WM. "The recruitment policy was a disaster in the summer and ultimately that is the reason we are getting relegated"
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Wilkins is scraping the barrel for credibility by stating his fitness advice to agbonlahor was ignored. He was a useless coach with no authority at BMH or pitchside. He will be remembered for his failures at Villa. There is no credibility to be had when he is as responsible for where we are as sherwood was for the shambles at the start of the season
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I think the problem with the recruitment this summer was a lack of communication and understanding between Sherwood and everyone else.
The new structure wasn't properly thought through. We signed a load of players without apparently having given any thought to the system that they would be playing in.
If you're not going to let your manager pick all his own signings, you at the very least need to identify players that suit his style.
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Wilkins is scraping the barrel for credibility by stating his fitness advice to agbonlahor was ignored. He was a useless coach with no authority at BMH or pitchside. He will be remembered for his failures at Villa. There is no credibility to be had when he is as responsible for where we are as sherwood was for the shambles at the start of the season
Agreed
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I think the problem with the recruitment this summer was a lack of communication and understanding between Sherwood and everyone else.
The new structure wasn't properly thought through. We signed a load of players without apparently having given any thought to the system that they would be playing in.
If you're not going to let your manager pick all his own signings, you at the very least need to identify players that suit his style.
But Sherwood himself is on record saying that he signed off on all of them.
They not have been the first names he thought of, but he agreed to them.
As I said earlier, does anyone really think that a gobshite like Sherwood would have gone through the summer and into the season without briefing against the club if he was being forced to accept all of these players against his will?
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Wilkins is scraping the barrel for credibility by stating his fitness advice to agbonlahor was ignored. He was a useless coach with no authority at BMH or pitchside. He will be remembered for his failures at Villa. There is no credibility to be had when he is as responsible for where we are as sherwood was for the shambles at the start of the season
If I was him I would stop answering questions about Villa in the hope that it would be forgotten that I was ever there.
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I think the problem with the recruitment this summer was a lack of communication and understanding between Sherwood and everyone else.
The new structure wasn't properly thought through. We signed a load of players without apparently having given any thought to the system that they would be playing in.
If you're not going to let your manager pick all his own signings, you at the very least need to identify players that suit his style.
I dont think our recruitment last summer is the prime reason for our relegation this term.
Amavi surely suited Gestede, Traore I'm sure was meant to provide width. Veretout had plenty of assists in France and provided some again this season. Ayew was definitely an upgrade on Gabby/Weimann. Gueye would have been fine to complement Delph but lacked the character to replace him. Unfortunately lots of the newbies struggled to settle, the French league is played at a very pedestrian pace and our Frenchies in the main struggled with it.
even if Sherwood had signed Townsend and Lennon, neither of which have pulled up any trees this season, we would have been absolutely rinsed in midfield playing those two wide. Adebayor has been a joke at Palace too while Cleverley hasnt offered Everton anything. None of those would have replaced our two best players, Benteke and Delph.
to be fair to Sherwood and Garde they both identified that Guzan needed replacing but there didnt seem a plan B when Begovic went to Chelsea or the Croatian guy in Jan didnt work out. Also right back, starting the season with Bacuna was worrying. A clued in club would have known about Gabby's antics off the pitch but perhaps they tried to get rid. I'm sure Nzogbia would have gone if any club had shown interest
But the recruitment crew cant take responsibility for what was obviously a farce of a pre-season with shocking fitness levels throughout the squad. Nor the complete lack of structure in the team, lack of team spirit and cohesive play.
Timmy signings included:
Richards - signed as captain and centre half on a crazy four year contract despite having not played there in years and rarely competently in any position in recent years, disgrace of a professional who didnt try a leg when put to right back
Lescott - may have been signed as back up but legs were evidently gone in the cup game last season, disinterested and disruptive
Gestede - flop really though was a reasonable punt for the money paid I thought at the time
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^^^^^Nailed it there.^^^^^
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Love to see a stare out between him and mezut ozil
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^^^^^Nailed it there.^^^^^
Not sure I agree with that. Amavi is a player for sure, Ayew we will probably get money back but don't like his attitude at times, Traore, Wilkins suggested Lennon was the preferred choice but the choice was Traore. Wilkins was not complimentary and lets be honest, has he been worth 60k per week?
The Gabby comments were quite damning, he dont give a shit.
I dislike Wilkins now, but he talks some sense imho and we need to rid our club of this nonsense
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I think the problem with the recruitment this summer was a lack of communication and understanding between Sherwood and everyone else.
The new structure wasn't properly thought through. We signed a load of players without apparently having given any thought to the system that they would be playing in.
If you're not going to let your manager pick all his own signings, you at the very least need to identify players that suit his style.
I dont think our recruitment last summer is the prime reason for our relegation this term.
Amavi surely suited Gestede, Traore I'm sure was meant to provide width. Veretout had plenty of assists in France and provided some again this season. Ayew was definitely an upgrade on Gabby/Weimann. Gueye would have been fine to complement Delph but lacked the character to replace him. Unfortunately lots of the newbies struggled to settle, the French league is played at a very pedestrian pace and our Frenchies in the main struggled with it.
even if Sherwood had signed Townsend and Lennon, neither of which have pulled up any trees this season, we would have been absolutely rinsed in midfield playing those two wide. Adebayor has been a joke at Palace too while Cleverley hasnt offered Everton anything. None of those would have replaced our two best players, Benteke and Delph.
to be fair to Sherwood and Garde they both identified that Guzan needed replacing but there didnt seem a plan B when Begovic went to Chelsea or the Croatian guy in Jan didnt work out. Also right back, starting the season with Bacuna was worrying. A clued in club would have known about Gabby's antics off the pitch but perhaps they tried to get rid. I'm sure Nzogbia would have gone if any club had shown interest
But the recruitment crew cant take responsibility for what was obviously a farce of a pre-season with shocking fitness levels throughout the squad. Nor the complete lack of structure in the team, lack of team spirit and cohesive play.
Timmy signings included:
Richards - signed as captain and centre half on a crazy four year contract despite having not played there in years and rarely competently in any position in recent years, disgrace of a professional who didnt try a leg when put to right back
Lescott - may have been signed as back up but legs were evidently gone in the cup game last season, disinterested and disruptive
Gestede - flop really though was a reasonable punt for the money paid I thought at the time
The quality of the French signings is not really the issue here. There was a dressing room split from game one. I know for a fact that after the games Gabby & the rest sat at one end of the players lounge and the new players (all french) sat at the other and never speak to each other. Same goes at BH. A fractured dressing room is a disaster for any team at any level. That is what Sherwood found himself up against. Garde identified this problem straight away when he said he wanted only English spoken in the dressing room and at BH. Clearly this hasn't been resolved. Another reason why we're going down.
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A fractured dressing room is a disaster for any team at any level. That is what Sherwood found himself up against.
Poor chap. He should have asked somebody whose job it was to get that kind of thing sorted.
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A fractured dressing room is a disaster for any team at any level. That is what Sherwood found himself up against.
Poor chap. He should have asked somebody whose job it was to get that kind of thing sorted.
He did his best to solve it. I'm sure leaving the French players out and not talking to them helped matters tremendously.
In between leaving Gabby to sort out his own fitness and not talking to the new signings, I'm not sure how Sherwood and Wilkins had any time to work on anything else.
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A fractured dressing room is a disaster for any team at any level. That is what Sherwood found himself up against.
Poor chap. He should have asked somebody whose job it was to get that kind of thing sorted.
yeah your right poor chap.He gets a bunch of non English speaking players dropped on him. To my knowledge TS is not a multi lingual interpreter so getting a language barrier sorted was giving him extra problems he could of well done without.
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A fractured dressing room is a disaster for any team at any level. That is what Sherwood found himself up against.
Poor chap. He should have asked somebody whose job it was to get that kind of thing sorted.
yeah your right poor chap.He gets a bunch of non English speaking players dropped on him. To my knowledge TS is not a multi lingual interpreter so getting a language barrier sorted was giving him extra problems he could of well done without.
It would have also helped if the good old English players weren't so absolutely shit and fucking half-arsed.
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And fucking malevolent to boot.
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A fractured dressing room is a disaster for any team at any level. That is what Sherwood found himself up against.
Poor chap. He should have asked somebody whose job it was to get that kind of thing sorted.
yeah your right poor chap.He gets a bunch of non English speaking players dropped on him. To my knowledge TS is not a multi lingual interpreter so getting a language barrier sorted was giving him extra problems he could of well done without.
How then can an Italian manager inherit an already multi-lingual squad, add players from Austria, Japan, France, Switzerland and Tunisia and make the team better?
Surely all the those non English-speaking players mean that Leicester should have imploded?
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Well obviously a good scouting network
is vital if you are to be successful. The moneyball system which is what we are talking about is a totally flawed system. Managers dont just go on stats. It's about blending a bunch of players to form a team. Like Leicester have.
can you explain the moneyball system that you're referring to. I think your meaning might be different to my understanding.
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Well obviously a good scouting network
is vital if you are to be successful. The moneyball system which is what we are talking about is a totally flawed system. Managers dont just go on stats. It's about blending a bunch of players to form a team. Like Leicester have.
can you explain the moneyball system that you're referring to. I think your meaning might be different to my understanding. what it really means
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If you're not going to let your manager pick all his own signings, you at the very least need to identify players that suit his style.
I agree with that generally, but sherwood changed formation/tactics every 45 minutes so whatever player bought would have been either in/out depending on his mood. So waste was inevitable regardless of who identified the players.
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Well obviously a good scouting network
is vital if you are to be successful. The moneyball system which is what we are talking about is a totally flawed system. Managers dont just go on stats. It's about blending a bunch of players to form a team. Like Leicester have.
can you explain the moneyball system that you're referring to. I think your meaning might be different to my understanding. what it really means
Okay, my understanding is from that baseball film where they use statistic to identify players who have specific key attributes but are largely undervalued. I'm not sure how what we did could be described as money ball, however I'm no expert on the subject.
Arguably Liverpool may have used it with carroll and downing, but they paid top dollar for them (which mentally crippled the players) so they only used half the system.
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Well obviously a good scouting network
is vital if you are to be successful. The moneyball system which is what we are talking about is a totally flawed system. Managers dont just go on stats. It's about blending a bunch of players to form a team. Like Leicester have.
can you explain the moneyball system that you're referring to. I think your meaning might be different to my understanding. what it really means
Okay, my understanding is from that baseball film where they use statistic to identify players who have specific key attributes but are largely undervalued. I'm not sure how what we did could be described as money ball, however I'm no expert on the subject.
Some people have taken Moneyball to mean "before you sign a player, you look at statistics about them (like how many goals they score) first".
These people are wrong.
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A fractured dressing room is a disaster for any team at any level. That is what Sherwood found himself up against.
Poor chap. He should have asked somebody whose job it was to get that kind of thing sorted.
yeah your right poor chap.He gets a bunch of non English speaking players dropped on him. To my knowledge TS is not a multi lingual interpreter so getting a language barrier sorted was giving him extra problems he could of well done without.
How then can an Italian manager inherit an already multi-lingual squad, add players from Austria, Japan, France, Switzerland and Tunisia and make the team better?
Surely all the those non English-speaking players mean that Leicester should have imploded?
I said in a previous post that if done right maybe it can work. Like Leicester have shown. Our attempt at it was a bit of a fuck up don't you think?
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I've seen the film but I couldn't really explain exactly what it's all about as its applicable to baseball which is probably more suited to it than association football
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Well obviously a good scouting network
is vital if you are to be successful. The moneyball system which is what we are talking about is a totally flawed system. Managers dont just go on stats. It's about blending a bunch of players to form a team. Like Leicester have.
can you explain the moneyball system that you're referring to. I think your meaning might be different to my understanding.
Ok I'll give it a go. I think what you do is appoint someone like Paddy Reilly to look at all the stats from players everywhere on his computer. Using those stats you ignore what your manager says cos he's a mug and Paddy knows best. Then you bring in a bunch of players to replace the ones you sell at a much cheaper price cos the stats say this is a clever idea. Then you get relegated. Hope that helps.
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Well obviously a good scouting network
is vital if you are to be successful. The moneyball system which is what we are talking about is a totally flawed system. Managers dont just go on stats. It's about blending a bunch of players to form a team. Like Leicester have.
can you explain the moneyball system that you're referring to. I think your meaning might be different to my understanding.
Ok I'll give it a go. I think what you do is appoint someone like Paddy Reilly to look at all the stats from players everywhere on his computer. Using those stats you ignore what your manager says cos he's a mug and Paddy knows best. Then you bring in a bunch of players to replace the ones you sell at a much cheaper price cos the stats say this is a clever idea. Then you get relegated. Hope that helps.
The manager was a mug and the players brought in by Reilly happen to be a lot better than the useless, feckless Brits favoured by Sherwood.
Why do you hate thinking so much, TE?
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Well obviously a good scouting network
is vital if you are to be successful. The moneyball system which is what we are talking about is a totally flawed system. Managers dont just go on stats. It's about blending a bunch of players to form a team. Like Leicester have.
can you explain the moneyball system that you're referring to. I think your meaning might be different to my understanding.
Ok I'll give it a go. I think what you do is appoint someone like Paddy Reilly to look at all the stats from players everywhere on his computer. Using those stats you ignore what your manager says cos he's a mug and Paddy knows best. Then you bring in a bunch of players to replace the ones you sell at a much cheaper price cos the stats say this is a clever idea. Then you get relegated. Hope that helps.
So basically, not a clue.
Moneyball can't be used in football, the way it was used in baseball.
Every fielding position is a niche position with stats coming out of your eyeballs and you can, theoretically, plug holes in your team by picking up someone cheaply, with the skills that have been pointed out by the stats analysis, who's just competent enough at the other aspects of the game to make an overall improvement, but who's been overlooked by everyone else.
It also requires analysis of far less data than in football, as despite baseball seemingly having stats on everything down to how often Shorty Long pisses himself in the 3rd innings, it's a much shorter list of players that they're looking at.
What you're getting wound up about is statistical sorting of players to give a manager a short list of potential targets.
It may well that Sherwood hadn't seen any of the foreign recruits in the flesh, but when would have been appropriate to do a scouting tour of Europe under his short term in the hot seat?
It's quite simple.
Sherwood says I need a left footed centre back, good in the air, decent turn of pace.
I've £X million to spend.
Stats people go through their databases and records and turn up 5 or 6 possible candidates.
Sherwood looks at the list and says, "f##k that, I'm going with Lescott. I know what I'm getting with him."
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''Moneyball'' stats would say Idrissa Gueye is a fantastic midfielder. My eyes and brain tell me otherwise.
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''Moneyball'' stats would say Idrissa Gueye is a fantastic midfielder. My eyes and brain tell me otherwise.
I think Gueye is a decent player.
He's one of those that when he goes elsewhere next season will look a lot better.
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''Moneyball'' stats would say Idrissa Gueye is a fantastic midfielder. My eyes and brain tell me otherwise.
I think Gueye is a decent player.
He's one of those that when he goes elsewhere next season will look a lot better.
Can't pass wind though, poor touch and just as importantly has no heart and gives up very very quickly. Just my opinion but take out 5 or so games at the start of the season and he's looked terrible at £8m from then on.
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Well obviously a good scouting network
is vital if you are to be successful. The moneyball system which is what we are talking about is a totally flawed system. Managers dont just go on stats. It's about blending a bunch of players to form a team. Like Leicester have.
can you explain the moneyball system that you're referring to. I think your meaning might be different to my understanding.
Ok I'll give it a go. I think what you do is appoint someone like Paddy Reilly to look at all the stats from players everywhere on his computer. Using those stats you ignore what your manager says cos he's a mug and Paddy knows best. Then you bring in a bunch of players to replace the ones you sell at a much cheaper price cos the stats say this is a clever idea. Then you get relegated. Hope that helps.
The manager was a mug and the players brought in by Reilly happen to be a lot better than the useless, feckless Brits favoured by Sherwood.
Why do you hate thinking so much, TE?
Ok I'll try thinking more in future.
I don't think much of TS I think he was tactically useless. I think our player recruitment policy for this season has been a massive success. Replacing players like Benteke and Delph with cheaper sub standard alternatives has worked out just fine. Now I'm going for a lie down because all this thinking is making my brain hurt.
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The Benteke replacement was hardly Moneyball. He was replaced, by Sherwood, with Rudy Gestede. Perhaps we could have used more stats than 'he's scored some goals, bruv'.
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The Benteke replacement was hardly Moneyball. He was replaced, by Sherwood, with Rudy Gestede. Perhaps we could have used more stats than 'he's scored some goals, bruv'.
Who scores headed goals? Looks at stats, Gestede, buy him.
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The Benteke replacement was hardly Moneyball. He was replaced, by Sherwood, with Rudy Gestede. Perhaps we could have used more stats than 'he's scored some goals, bruv'.
Who scores headed goals? Looks at stats, Gestede, buy him.
Moneyball for morons, maybe.
The point is that everybody who's any good - EVERYBODY - uses 'stats' in the modern game now for scouting. Everybody. The way you dismiss them as some crazy wacky thing dreamed up in a lab by some fringe maniac scientist is so divorced from the real-world reality of the sport it's frightening. It's like you and The Edge have been cryogenically frozen since 1945.
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Correct Monty but they also need to do some homework on the characters of the players they are looking to purchase, stats are fine but crosschecks need also to be carried out.
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The Benteke replacement was hardly Moneyball. He was replaced, by Sherwood, with Rudy Gestede. Perhaps we could have used more stats than 'he's scored some goals, bruv'.
Who scores headed goals? Looks at stats, Gestede, buy him.
Not according to Sherwood. He said he'd been tracking him since he was at Cardiff.
And he still bought him, the tool.
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Correct Monty but they also need to do some homework on the characters of the players they are looking to purchase, stats are fine but crosschecks need also to be carried out.
Exactly, like actually watching them as well. I cannot believe anyone who watched Gestede for more than a couple of games would come to the conclusion that he could be the spear head of a Premier League forward line.
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The Benteke replacement was hardly Moneyball. He was replaced, by Sherwood, with Rudy Gestede. Perhaps we could have used more stats than 'he's scored some goals, bruv'.
Who scores headed goals? Looks at stats, Gestede, buy him.
Not according to Sherwood. He said he'd been tracking him since he was at Cardiff.
And he still bought him, the tool.
And I believe that as much as he'd been keeping his eye on Veretout, the bloke he never spoke to once he signed him.
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Correct Monty but they also need to do some homework on the characters of the players they are looking to purchase, stats are fine but crosschecks need also to be carried out.
This is true - but then we haven't had problems with the characters of any of the foreign players bought last season. It's the British based ones who've been involved in all the problems.
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Of course you need to watch them too, but your eyes can deceive you as much as - if not more than - just raw numbers can.
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Statistical analysis covers every aspect of a player's worth. Goals, assists, yards run, clean sheets, number of games lost through injury, red cards, yellow cards, number of cigarettes, units of alcohol, motoring offences, domestic disturbances, and so on and so forth. Multi million pound investments require a total examination of the facts as disclosed by the statistics. It is essential to avoiding the waste of money on players like Ivo Stas, Jordan Bowery and Libor Kozak.
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Correct Monty but they also need to do some homework on the characters of the players they are looking to purchase, stats are fine but crosschecks need also to be carried out.
And for these Moneyball (sic) signings like Traore, Veretout and Amavi, has there been any suggestion that the club didn't do "homework on their character"?
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Not saying they did not, but to get totally focused on the stats and stats alone that some people think are the only thing worth looking at.
When you bring any player into a club at the level we have been buying there is no such thing as a certainty, did the stats show that once his team are losing Gana has a tendency to drift out of a game and give up, who was responsible for doing the homework of character traits for the likes of Richards, Lescott.
Please dont say well they were Sherwood's buys, because whoever bought them the same amount of homework should be done.
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The first person in the UK to start looking at this seriously and doing something with the numbers was that utter dinosaur and last bastion of "pwoppa Inglisch football" Sam Allardyce when he took over at Bolton in '99
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The first person in the UK to start looking at this seriously and doing something with the numbers was that utter dinosaur and last bastion of "pwoppa Inglisch football" Sam Allardyce when he took over at Bolton in '99
Certainly was. His football might be boring, but it is thought-out.
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The first person in the UK to start looking at this seriously and doing something with the numbers was that utter dinosaur and last bastion of "pwoppa Inglisch football" Sam Allardyce when he took over at Bolton in '99
Funnily enough though, his Bolton side at theor best played some extremely good football, such as the time Jay Jay Okocha tore us a new one.
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Correct Monty but they also need to do some homework on the characters of the players they are looking to purchase, stats are fine but crosschecks need also to be carried out.
This is true - but then we haven't had problems with the characters of any of the foreign players bought last season. It's the British based ones who've been involved in all the problems.
Think the character of the imports is certainly open to question. Saw a report a couple of weeks ago saying Gueye had the most interceptions of any player across Europe's major leagues this term, more than Kante. However those stats don't excuse his complete lack of character as a man. That was evident early in the season, walking back after players, throwing in towel when we went behind etc.
veretout didn't try a leg in his more recent appearances. Traore didn't track back once, laughable professional. Amavi's jumping out of tackles cost us a number of critical goals early in the season. Ayew's red card at West Ham was a disgrace.
The imports should not be spared in any character assessments of the charlatan crew that represented AVFC this season.
My own take on it is that the culture at AVFC need a complete root and branch review as there is something fundementally wrong. The club is void of ambition and bare minimum seems the acceptable standard for years now. New players, academy players and management will continue to struggle without culture change.
Small steps but there should be a new written code of conduct that all players and management sign up to next season re fitness levels, social media, off field activities, alcohol bans, media leaks and a series of new off field initiatives that all players must sign up to re charity and supporter events.
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The Moneyball tag is balls, quite frankly.
But sinking so much of the available resources on French players last summer was risky at the time and has contributed to us going down. Not because they are poor players, but because -for reasons others are probably better placed than me to explain- French players seem to take a while to adapt to English football. Certainly compared to Scandinavian, Dutch and -weirdly- Belgian players.
Maybe it is down to the language barrier - Veretout barely had a word of it when he came over, for example. Whereas it would be odd to think of that applying to players from those other regions. Or it could purely be the pace of the league.
Ayew (who is Ghanaian, but brought up in France) really only got going from Oct/Nov onwards. Aside from a few flashes here and there, Vertout has never got going at all. Amavi looked the best of the bunch and Gueye has been a letdown. We needed the bulk of them to hit the ground running, and that didn't happen. Ayew and Veretout would have been the kind of players who could have been eased in gradually to a settled side but we didn't have that luxury.
It would be human nature for a group of ex pats to congregate together so they can't be blamed for that. But signing just two of that lot might have been easier, as far as integration is concerned. If the French players have been disappointing, the Ing-er-lund lot have been diabolical. If we ever get back to the topflight, I'd be reticent to sign any recent cast offs from Citeh (unless they are offering Aguero or De Bruyne plus cash for Gestede). They've usually done their chips as far as their career is concerned. And think they are doing us a favour just by turning up. (See also Richard Dunne).
Th focus needs to be on players on the way up who want to make their name at Aston Villa. The Paul Lambert approach in the early part of his time with us had merit- the execution was just poor.
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I'd go along with KG.
Others have also said it, recently and some much further back the statistics analysis can only be either a first filter to whittle 50 potential players down to 4 or 5, or to help inform a decisiion if you're stuck picking between 2.
The one thing that's been obvious from the start is that the players as individuals are OK, but there's no way on earth that anyone, at any point in time sat down and thought about how they'd fit together, not just on the pitch, but also as team mates off it.
I don't know what Richard's reputation within the game was before he signed, but it appears that a dressing room with him and Agbonlahor can only survive if it's made up of people who either go all in for, or are prepared to accept some kind of mid 80's to early 90's bullshit machismo, laced with a touch of xenophobia if you can't join in. With that background signing our Ligue 1 contingent was like throwing caged puppies in front of a train and seeing how many survived.
Agree about Man City cast off type signings as well. I'd add all of the current top 5/6 usual suspects to that. Look at Townsend at Newcastle. From the bits I've seen the most effort he's put in has been running to warm up before being subbed in with 20 minutes to go.
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I find it hard to believe that any club which employs data analysis to dissect player performances in their own side wouldn't do the same before deciding to sign a player from another.
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Football these days seems to be all around buying players. Whatever method you use and it is clearly not just relying on stats, whatever the media/pundits try telling us, there are risks of getting it wrong. Football is a team game and generally a player has to compliment others in the team (unless the player is Messi or the like). There is so much to consider when trying to assess whether a player will be a success.
With a high turnover of players, you are always running the risk of not knowing exactly what you are buying as things are happening so fast. So, why have Villa consistently neglected their youth players over the last 5 or 6 seasons. With a good youth policy you mould the player into what you want from a character point of view and you coach him to achieve his potential.
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The Benteke replacement was hardly Moneyball. He was replaced, by Sherwood, with Rudy Gestede. Perhaps we could have used more stats than 'he's scored some goals, bruv'.
Who scores headed goals? Looks at stats, Gestede, buy him.
Moneyball for morons, maybe.
The point is that everybody who's any good - EVERYBODY - uses 'stats' in the modern game now for scouting. Everybody. The way you dismiss them as some crazy wacky thing dreamed up in a lab by some fringe maniac scientist is so divorced from the real-world reality of the sport it's frightening. It's like you and The Edge have been cryogenically frozen since 1945.
My points aren't really aimed at the moneyball system. My point is about the club bringing in a bunch of players without proper involvement of the manager whilst ignoring players he had identified. Add to that a language barrier and the fact that Newcastle tried going for French replacements and look.how that turned out. Sherwood should have been trusted to build a team. Too much interference from people not qualified to do so has fucked us up.
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I wouldn't trust Sherwood to build a lego wall.
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I wouldn't trust Sherwood to build a lego wall.
we'll never know cos he wasn't given the chance
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I wouldn't trust Sherwood to build a lego wall.
we'll never know cos he wasn't given the chance
He'll get his chance to build his British or at least experienced, 110% in training, running around like headless chickens pwoper laaaaads team at some point and you'll find out the jingoistic prick hasn't got a clue.
#Bantz
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I wouldn't trust Sherwood to build a lego wall.
we'll never know cos he wasn't given the chance
He'll get his chance to build his British or at least experienced, 110% in training, running around like headless chickens pwoper laaaaads team at some point and you'll find out the jingoistic prick hasn't got a clue.
#Bantz
What are you basing your opinion on?
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I wouldn't trust Sherwood to build a lego wall.
we'll never know cos he wasn't given the chance
He was given half a chance. The ones he bought have been as bad, if not worse then the ones he supposedly had nothing to do with. Even though he bigged them up massively and was taking credit for them in all the media when bought. If Richards, Lescott and Gestade were the ones performing well each game, or if he had Grealish playing well or decided to actually get Gabby fit or decided to quell any dressing room troubles rather then fanning them, then your trust of him would have been justified.
There is also an argument that if Garde had been given the same chances Sherwood had to get the players in he wanted in January and maybe replace some of the dross we have left, then we might have strung results together and been safe. We were started to actually play like a team that cares again when we the board decided not to even try anything in the Jan transfer windows and the troublemakers decided they were safe to get another manager sacked who could do nothing about it but play them.
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Lescott, Richards and Gestede were his picks.
Andros Townsend and Adebayor aren't players I am distraught at missing out on either.
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I wouldn't trust Sherwood to build a lego wall.
we'll never know cos he wasn't given the chance
He was given half a chance. The ones he bought have been as bad, if not worse then the ones he supposedly had nothing to do with. Even though he bigged them up massively and was taking credit for them in all the media when bought. If Richards, Lescott and Gestade were the ones performing well each game, or if he had Grealish playing well or decided to actually get Gabby fit or decided to quell any dressing room troubles rather then fanning them, then your trust of him would have been justified.
There is also an argument that if Garde had been given the same chances Sherwood had to get the players in he wanted in January and maybe replace some of the dross we have left, then we might have strung results together and been safe. We were started to actually play like a team that cares again when we the board decided not to even try anything in the Jan transfer windows and the troublemakers decided they were safe to get another manager sacked who could do nothing about it but play them.
Well it's all water under the bridge now. Whoever comes in has got to be trusted to build a team of his if not we might as well just give up.
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I wouldn't trust Sherwood to build a lego wall.
we'll never know cos he wasn't given the chance
He'll get his chance to build his British or at least experienced, 110% in training, running around like headless chickens pwoper laaaaads team at some point and you'll find out the jingoistic prick hasn't got a clue.
#Bantz
What are you basing your opinion on?
The way he refers in many interviews the need for a British players because they 'understand' the league. The split in the dressing room as it was pretty evident he didn't fancy the weak little frenchies. There was a mention of Veretout on here apparently stating that Tim didn't speak to him. I haven't heard that but I wouldn't be surprised.
All round though, admittedly, a lot of it is hunch on the vibe he gives off. What isn't a hunch though is he is tactically inept.
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I wouldn't trust Sherwood to build a lego wall.
we'll never know cos he wasn't given the chance
He'll get his chance to build his British or at least experienced, 110% in training, running around like headless chickens pwoper laaaaads team at some point and you'll find out the jingoistic prick hasn't got a clue.
#Bantz
What are you basing your opinion on?
The way he refers in many interviews the need for a British players because they 'understand' the league. The split in the dressing room as it was pretty evident he didn't fancy the weak little frenchies. There was a mention of Veretout on here apparently stating that Tim didn't speak to him. I haven't heard that but I wouldn't be surprised.
All round though, admittedly, a lot of it is hunch on the vibe he gives off. What isn't a hunch though is he is tactically inept.
I posted the thing about Sherwood not speaking to Veretout - it was from an interview he (the player) gave shortly after Sherwood went.
Wilkins and Sherwood opining on our demise makes me want to puke up at least one kidney, and possibly both. Like they're impartial, uninvolved observers rather than the people who delivered four points from the first 30.
The gigantic pair of thundercunts.
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I wouldn't trust Sherwood to build a lego wall.
we'll never know cos he wasn't given the chance
He'll get his chance to build his British or at least experienced, 110% in training, running around like headless chickens pwoper laaaaads team at some point and you'll find out the jingoistic prick hasn't got a clue.
#Bantz
What are you basing your opinion on?
The way he refers in many interviews the need for a British players because they 'understand' the league. The split in the dressing room as it was pretty evident he didn't fancy the weak little frenchies. There was a mention of Veretout on here apparently stating that Tim didn't speak to him. I haven't heard that but I wouldn't be surprised.
All round though, admittedly, a lot of it is hunch on the vibe he gives off. What isn't a hunch though is he is tactically inept.
I posted the thing about Sherwood not speaking to Veretout - it was from an interview he (the player) gave shortly after Sherwood went.
Wilkins and Sherwood opining on our demise makes me want to puke up at least one kidney, and possibly both. Like they're impartial, uninvolved observers rather than the people who delivered four points from the first 30.
The gigantic pair of thundercunts.
I used to listen to Ray Wilkins whenever he was. I was neither here or there with him. I now don't listen to a single f**king word the uncle festa eye bulging (as you so aptly put) thundercunt says. It may have been you who said this as well I'm not sure but someone mentioned him basically saying 'not me guv' whenever he talks about us and that's exactly what he does. Winds me up no end.
Sherwood I disliked beforehand so nothing changed there. The 4pts from 30 thing... yeah but he would have kept them up... he would have been better than Garde. F**k off.
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The Paul Lambert approach in the early part of his time with us had merit- the execution was just poor.
As poor at the Lambert-executed "young and hungry"-method was, it was when we started to supplement the youngsters with senior "pros" like Richardson, Joe Cole, Senderos and Cissokho - and later Richards, Sinclair and Lescott.
No joke, maybe it was "youth" and "hunger" that saved us from relegation in Lambert's first season.
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The Paul Lambert approach in the early part of his time with us had merit- the execution was just poor.
As poor at the Lambert-executed "young and hungry"-method was, it was when we started to supplement the youngsters with senior "pros" like Richardson, Joe Cole, Senderos and Cissokho - and later Richards, Sinclair and Lescott.
No joke, maybe it was "youth" and "hunger" that saved us from relegation in Lambert's first season.
The mistakes used to drive us mad but wasn't Lowton-Clark-Baker-Bennett a better back four than Hutton-Richards-Lescott-Cissoko?
Lowton's about to be promoted past us with Burnley.
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Is that the back four that let in 20 odd goals in four matches in one of our record breaking runs?
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Both are those back fours were dire, the latest shouldn't have been though. On paper, that's a decent defensive platform.
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Is that the back four that let in 20 odd goals in four matches in one of our record breaking runs?
Yeah, good point. Still better than this season's though. ML-CC-NB-JB shipped 69 goals in 38 games. Current lot have managed that number in 35.
Both are those back fours were dire, the latest shouldn't have been though. On paper, that's a decent defensive platform.
You'd have thought so ...
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Is that the back four that let in 20 odd goals in four matches in one of our record breaking runs?
Yes, back in the halcyon days.
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I've just had the great pleasure of hearing Wilkins tout Mick Mac for the Manager's job c/o Talkshite. "He'd be a fantastic appointment" chimed Butch. 'Sake. ::)
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I always thought Wilkins spoke well about most things football wise - its only his complete and utter uselessness at VP that now makes me want to scream at the radio that he is a complete tool
Its all about the old boys networking for them
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I listened at 6am this morning and he said that Pearson would be a fantastic manager for us
If you mention any manager's name to Wilkins he would say he would be ideal for the Villa Job
He sits on the fence and never says anything other than what people want to hear, a bit like Brooking when used to co-commentate for the BBC
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I only caught 5 mins today but he still managed to piss me off how he talks of our demise without the self awareness to realise he may have played some small part in it.
He also said there's no way Moyes would consider Villa or Celtic as "he's a premiership manager, nothing less".
Twat.
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Stats fans (The Edge - stop reading now): I'm part way through a great book called 'Black Box Thinking' by The Bounce's Matthew Sayed. The crux of what I have read so far compares how doctors and pilots deal with failure. Lots of sexy talk about the benefits of statistical analysis.
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Stats fans (The Edge - stop reading now): I'm part way through a great book called 'Black Box Thinking' by The Bounce's Matthew Sayed. The crux of what I have read so far compares how doctors and pilots deal with failure. Lots of sexy talk about the benefits of statistical analysis.
Show us your GaussIan peak and your range, you deviant outlier.
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I wouldn't trust Sherwood to build a lego wall.
we'll never know cos he wasn't given the chance
He'll get his chance to build his British or at least experienced, 110% in training, running around like headless chickens pwoper laaaaads team at some point and you'll find out the jingoistic prick hasn't got a clue.
#Bantz
What are you basing your opinion on?
The way he refers in many interviews the need for a British players because they 'understand' the league. The split in the dressing room as it was pretty evident he didn't fancy the weak little frenchies. There was a mention of Veretout on here apparently stating that Tim didn't speak to him. I haven't heard that but I wouldn't be surprised.
All round though, admittedly, a lot of it is hunch on the vibe he gives off. What isn't a hunch though is he is tactically inept.
I posted the thing about Sherwood not speaking to Veretout - it was from an interview he (the player) gave shortly after Sherwood went.
Wilkins and Sherwood opining on our demise makes me want to puke up at least one kidney, and possibly both. Like they're impartial, uninvolved observers rather than the people who delivered four points from the first 30.
The gigantic pair of thundercunts.
i thought that was in the context of when he was in the process of being signed, not on a day to day basis in training etc?