Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Ivo Stas on February 21, 2016, 05:46:51 PM
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A rather relevant article, I reckon...
There are graphs and charts on the web page so I'll just paste the link (and not cut-and-paste over the text).
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3456453/Mind-gap-Premier-League-wages-soar-average-salaries-2014-15-season-1-7million-rest-creep-along.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3456453/Mind-gap-Premier-League-wages-soar-average-salaries-2014-15-season-1-7million-rest-creep-along.html)
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If ever an article rammed home the need for salary caps then that one is it, it would need backing from fifa and uefa and it won't happen because it would close the gap between the top sides and the rest but it's most definitely needed.
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Not really news to anyone i think. I'm not sure anyone at the club is currently on the 6k a week average reported there, even if they're subject to reductions for relegation. Lerner will have problems shifting any of them because the majority won't have any takers,and will dig their heels in and stay because, well.....they're not stupid. Makes it even more important to have a manager who can inspire the current squad.
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Not really news to anyone i think. I'm not sure anyone at the club is currently on the 6k a week average reported there, even if they're subject to reductions for relegation. Lerner will have problems shifting any of them because the majority won't have any takers,and will dig their heels in and stay because, well.....they're not stupid. Makes it even more important to have a manager who can inspire the current squad.
Given that you obviously don't rate Garde, who do you have in mind?
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Already said i'd go for eddie howe, but we need someone who can get something out of the current squad and the dead cat bounce of Garde's start doesn't fill me with confidence. Anyone who thinks there's going to be a big influx of new players this summer is living in cloud cuckoo land so we're stuck with the current lot. Best we can hope for is perhaps a few cheap replacements for any that leave,
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Not really news to anyone i think. I'm not sure anyone at the club is currently on the 6k a week average reported there, even if they're subject to reductions for relegation. Lerner will have problems shifting any of them because the majority won't have any takers,and will dig their heels in and stay because, well.....they're not stupid. Makes it even more important to have a manager who can inspire the current squad.
not sure I agree with that. Reckon there would be interest in several players from home and abroad and some wouldnt fancy life in the championship
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Not really news to anyone i think. I'm not sure anyone at the club is currently on the 6k a week average reported there, even if they're subject to reductions for relegation. Lerner will have problems shifting any of them because the majority won't have any takers,and will dig their heels in and stay because, well.....they're not stupid. Makes it even more important to have a manager who can inspire the current squad.
not sure I agree with that. Reckon there would be interest in several players from home and abroad and some wouldnt fancy life in the championship
whom? maybe richards, ayew and a few others would get interest from a premiership club but the rest? Maybe palm off off the likes of Lescott to the chinese league but really if your on the average of 32k a week according to that report, you are not going to want to move somewhere where your wages get more than halved are you?
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Already said i'd go for eddie howe, but we need someone who can get something out of the current squad and the dead cat bounce of Garde's start doesn't fill me with confidence. Anyone who thinks there's going to be a big influx of new players this summer is living in cloud cuckoo land so we're stuck with the current lot. Best we can hope for is perhaps a few cheap replacements for any that leave,
You might as well ask for Mourinho as Eddie Howe. Stay up or go down, he's nailed his colours to the mast on that one, and I don't envisage their board canning him if they just fail to stay up.
Bollocks to a big influx of new players, I'd settle for ridding the club of some the poison, which ironically enough will, for the most part, be those first out of the door of their own volition.
A goalkeeper, a right back, a centre forward who can move quicker than a tortoise and 2 new centre backs, assuming Lescott goes to the MLS and Okore finds a new deal elsewhere. Anything else is replacing squad filler we move on because there's a mutual understanding that time's up.
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Lescott saying he wants to stay at the club even if we go down.
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Already said i'd go for eddie howe, but we need someone who can get something out of the current squad and the dead cat bounce of Garde's start doesn't fill me with confidence. Anyone who thinks there's going to be a big influx of new players this summer is living in cloud cuckoo land so we're stuck with the current lot. Best we can hope for is perhaps a few cheap replacements for any that leave,
You might as well ask for Mourinho as Eddie Howe. Stay up or go down, he's nailed his colours to the mast on that one, and I don't envisage their board canning him if they just fail to stay up.
Bollocks to a big influx of new players, I'd settle for ridding the club of some the poison, which ironically enough will, for the most part, be those first out of the door of their own volition.
A goalkeeper, a right back, a centre forward who can move quicker than a tortoise and 2 new centre backs, assuming Lescott goes to the MLS and Okore finds a new deal elsewhere. Anything else is replacing squad filler we move on because there's a mutual understanding that time's up.
I agree, but the problem is even that little lot would probably cost the £40m if we are looking at decent players.
I've mentioned him before, but if Garde goes in the summer and Brighton don't go up, I would go for Hughton. An ex-Blues manager, but knows the Championship and has experience of managing at clubs with expectations. He also comes across well in the media and would be far more palatable than someone like Pearson.
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Already said i'd go for eddie howe, but we need someone who can get something out of the current squad and the dead cat bounce of Garde's start doesn't fill me with confidence. Anyone who thinks there's going to be a big influx of new players this summer is living in cloud cuckoo land so we're stuck with the current lot. Best we can hope for is perhaps a few cheap replacements for any that leave,
You might as well ask for Mourinho as Eddie Howe. Stay up or go down, he's nailed his colours to the mast on that one, and I don't envisage their board canning him if they just fail to stay up.
Bollocks to a big influx of new players, I'd settle for ridding the club of some the poison, which ironically enough will, for the most part, be those first out of the door of their own volition.
A goalkeeper, a right back, a centre forward who can move quicker than a tortoise and 2 new centre backs, assuming Lescott goes to the MLS and Okore finds a new deal elsewhere. Anything else is replacing squad filler we move on because there's a mutual understanding that time's up.
5 players is a big influx VID? Wouldn't you say? FWIW, I agree with you about not bringing in a load of players. I think a few clever signings might be a better option rather than the spray and pray approach that they gave us last summer. It was fun at the time but has proven a disaster. As for Garde being the right man to take them back up? I am concerned that he doesn't seem to be able to motivate as well as I would want him to. However, I think he's better than he's able to show at the moment and might be a sound Manager in the longer term. If he does go, I'd like David Moyes or Brendan Rodgers. The clubs aren't exactly lining up for them, so they might fancy waking up a giant.
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The problem with managers who 'know the Championship' is that they've spent a lot of time down there. I think we need someone who's horrified to be there and will move mountains to make sure he never has to be there again.
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Already said i'd go for eddie howe, but we need someone who can get something out of the current squad and the dead cat bounce of Garde's start doesn't fill me with confidence. Anyone who thinks there's going to be a big influx of new players this summer is living in cloud cuckoo land so we're stuck with the current lot. Best we can hope for is perhaps a few cheap replacements for any that leave,
You might as well ask for Mourinho as Eddie Howe. Stay up or go down, he's nailed his colours to the mast on that one, and I don't envisage their board canning him if they just fail to stay up.
Bollocks to a big influx of new players, I'd settle for ridding the club of some the poison, which ironically enough will, for the most part, be those first out of the door of their own volition.
A goalkeeper, a right back, a centre forward who can move quicker than a tortoise and 2 new centre backs, assuming Lescott goes to the MLS and Okore finds a new deal elsewhere. Anything else is replacing squad filler we move on because there's a mutual understanding that time's up.
Just can't see that unfortunately. Who's gonna take say Gabby? The average for a 1st team player is 32k a week according to that article so you need a club who a)wants him and b)will pay him enough to piss off. We all remember the deadwood MON bought that saw out their contracts so unless it suits them, no-one is gonna be in a hurry to quit Villa. Bottom line is this board are not going to ok spending on players if the players they're replacing are still here - we can't afford to have a bomb squad anymore - any new arrivals will be totally dependant on who leaves
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Already said i'd go for eddie howe, but we need someone who can get something out of the current squad and the dead cat bounce of Garde's start doesn't fill me with confidence. Anyone who thinks there's going to be a big influx of new players this summer is living in cloud cuckoo land so we're stuck with the current lot. Best we can hope for is perhaps a few cheap replacements for any that leave,
You might as well ask for Mourinho as Eddie Howe. Stay up or go down, he's nailed his colours to the mast on that one, and I don't envisage their board canning him if they just fail to stay up.
Bollocks to a big influx of new players, I'd settle for ridding the club of some the poison, which ironically enough will, for the most part, be those first out of the door of their own volition.
A goalkeeper, a right back, a centre forward who can move quicker than a tortoise and 2 new centre backs, assuming Lescott goes to the MLS and Okore finds a new deal elsewhere. Anything else is replacing squad filler we move on because there's a mutual understanding that time's up.
Just can't see that unfortunately. Who's gonna take say Gabby? The average for a 1st team player is 32k a week according to that article so you need a club who a)wants him and b)will pay him enough to piss off. We all remember the deadwood MON bought that saw out their contracts so unless it suits them, no-one is gonna be in a hurry to quit Villa. Bottom line is this board are not going to ok spending on players if the players they're replacing are still here - we can't afford to have a bomb squad anymore - any new arrivals will be totally dependant on who leaves
I think the wages that are being paid has meant a shift over the past few years. It used to be the case that players couldn't wait to leave a relegated club, but I think money means that isn't the case anymore. For every few ambitious players who want to stay in the top flight, you now probably have others who knows their wages can't be matched at other clubs so are more than happy to stay at a relegated side. Prime example, I was listening to a report on the radio yesterday from the Fulham game and heard the names Dembele and Parker pop up.
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The problem with managers who 'know the Championship' is that they've spent a lot of time down there. I think we need someone who's horrified to be there and will move mountains to make sure he never has to be there again.
Or that when they have been in the Championship, they have tended to get teams out of there pretty sharpish.
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The problem with managers who 'know the Championship' is that they've spent a lot of time down there. I think we need someone who's horrified to be there and will move mountains to make sure he never has to be there again.
Or that when they have been in the Championship, they have tended to get teams out of there pretty sharpish.
Who are you thinking of that we could realistically get?
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Neil Warnock.......
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The problem with managers who 'know the Championship' is that they've spent a lot of time down there. I think we need someone who's horrified to be there and will move mountains to make sure he never has to be there again.
Or that when they have been in the Championship, they have tended to get teams out of there pretty sharpish.
Who are you thinking of that we could realistically get?
I said a few posts back that I think Chris Hughton would be a good option if Brighton don't go up.
I would add at this point that I don't want Garde to leave, as I would like to see him given a chance with his own staff and players first.
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I think the wages that are being paid has meant a shift over the past few years. It used to be the case that players couldn't wait to leave a relegated club, but I think money means that isn't the case anymore. For every few ambitious players who want to stay in the top flight, you now probably have others who knows their wages can't be matched at other clubs so are more than happy to stay at a relegated side. Prime example, I was listening to a report on the radio yesterday from the Fulham game and heard the names Dembele and Parker pop up.
I don't really think that 19 year old, 2-games in the Premier League when he was 17 Moussa Dembele really makes your point* for you.
*Although your point is perfectly sound.
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The issue as always with appointing a manager that has "Champonship level knowledge" is that they don't come on one year deals. Neil Warnock is the perfect example. He might make a good go at promotion but then when we are sat bottom of the PL 10 games in we are firing him and starting again. I'm just not in favour of hiring any manager on the basis that he might have got a team promoted because if that's the case we should never have fired two time promotion legend Paul Lambert.
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The issue as always with appointing a manager that has "Champonship level knowledge" is that they don't come on one year deals. Neil Warnock is the perfect example. He might make a good go at promotion but then when we are sat bottom of the PL 10 games in we are firing him and starting again. I'm just not in favour of hiring any manager on the basis that he might have got a team promoted because if that's the case we should never have fired two time promotion legend Paul Lambert.
Exactly.
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I think the wages that are being paid has meant a shift over the past few years. It used to be the case that players couldn't wait to leave a relegated club, but I think money means that isn't the case anymore. For every few ambitious players who want to stay in the top flight, you now probably have others who knows their wages can't be matched at other clubs so are more than happy to stay at a relegated side. Prime example, I was listening to a report on the radio yesterday from the Fulham game and heard the names Dembele and Parker pop up.
I don't really think that 19 year old, 2-games in the Premier League when he was 17 Moussa Dembele really makes your point* for you.
*Although your point is perfectly sound.
Apologies, got my Dembeles mixed up!
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The issue as always with appointing a manager that has "Champonship level knowledge" is that they don't come on one year deals. Neil Warnock is the perfect example. He might make a good go at promotion but then when we are sat bottom of the PL 10 games in we are firing him and starting again. I'm just not in favour of hiring any manager on the basis that he might have got a team promoted because if that's the case we should never have fired two time promotion legend Paul Lambert.
Not sure I follow your logic there TV. I take your point about the likes of Warnock and that if you are already in the Premier League then getting a team promoted shouldn't really be a basis on which to hire a manager. If, however, you are relegated to the Championship and desperately need to get up at the first attempt, then surely a manager's record in that division comes into the thinking at some point?
Anyway, as I said before, I hope it's a decision we don't have to make in the summer.
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Stated before what we do not know is what sell on values the players have had put into their contracts, these relegation clauses are not just one sided, agents ensure their client is looked after, so dependent on that I should imagine will dictate the turnover of players.
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I don't buy the 'motivator' and 'dead cat bouncer' criterion for a manager for us in our current position. Of course the ability to crank up players and to drive them when necessary is an essential part of any successful manager's skill set but we have tried flooding the engine with EasyStart for the last five seasons now it is time for some serious repair work.
There have been many failures and shortcomings at the club in Lerner's ownership but for me the single biggest failure has been the lack of forward thinking and planning not the lack of John Gregory style hoarding kicking.
Fortunately for us the ones who have been least motivated in the dressing room seem to be those most likely to want to leave.
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If ever an article rammed home the need for salary caps then that one is it, it would need backing from fifa and uefa and it won't happen because it would close the gap between the top sides and the rest but it's most definitely needed.
That's the NFL model.
I like to wind up my friends in the American Colonies by describing the NFL's salary cap and revenue sharing as being Communist.
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As previously stated in another thread (see below), unless the senior players have a clause to drop their wages, then the clubs wage bill will only go down by losing all the younger players out of contract, and not using the extension clause available on some.
GO
Guzan - Value £7.5m Wages £30,000 per week
Siegrist - £300,000 £5,500 Out of contract end of season
Richards - £8m £50,000
Lescott - £925,000 £45,000
Richardson - £875,000 £22,500 Out of contract end of season
NZog - £3.4m £48,000 Out of contract end of season
Lewis Kinsella - £84,000 £1,500 Out of contract end of season, has contract extension clause
Janoi Donacien - £245,000 £3,000 Out of contract end of season
Callum Robinson - £625,000 £4,000 Out of contract end of season, has contract extension clause
GET RID IF WE CAN FIND A BUYER
Gabby - £ 7m £55,000
Gestede - £ 7.75m £30,000
Clark - £5.5m £30,000
Baker - £ 4.7m £ 25,000
Westwood - £ 7.25m £30,000
Bacuna - £4.9m £25,000
Sinclair - £6.5m £35,000
There are 19 other players out of contract at the end of the season, 8 of whom have extension clauses.
Out of contract players without extension clauses (including those in the GO list),would have a combined value of approximately £5,202,000 and a wage saving of approx. £88,500 per week.
Unfortunately, the players who aren't out of contract would require a combined total of over £ 71m in compensation, just to end their contracts,if we cannot find a buyer.
Sorry everyone, but Lerner aint gonna pay out that much, so apart from the 26 players who are out of contract ,who are mostly U21's and U18's, everyone else in the above lists (Go & Get Rid)will still be here next season.
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As previously stated in another thread (see below), unless the senior players have a clause to drop their wages, then the clubs wage bill will only go down by losing all the younger players out of contract, and not using the extension clause available on some.
GO
Guzan - Value £7.5m Wages £30,000 per week
Siegrist - £300,000 £5,500 Out of contract end of season
Richards - £8m £50,000
Lescott - £925,000 £45,000
Richardson - £875,000 £22,500 Out of contract end of season
NZog - £3.4m £48,000 Out of contract end of season
Lewis Kinsella - £84,000 £1,500 Out of contract end of season, has contract extension clause
Janoi Donacien - £245,000 £3,000 Out of contract end of season
Callum Robinson - £625,000 £4,000 Out of contract end of season, has contract extension clause
GET RID IF WE CAN FIND A BUYER
Gabby - £ 7m £55,000
Gestede - £ 7.75m £30,000
Clark - £5.5m £30,000
Baker - £ 4.7m £ 25,000
Westwood - £ 7.25m £30,000
Bacuna - £4.9m £25,000
Sinclair - £6.5m £35,000
There are 19 other players out of contract at the end of the season, 8 of whom have extension clauses.
Out of contract players without extension clauses (including those in the GO list),would have a combined value of approximately £5,202,000 and a wage saving of approx. £88,500 per week.
Unfortunately, the players who aren't out of contract would require a combined total of over £ 71m in compensation, just to end their contracts,if we cannot find a buyer.
Sorry everyone, but Lerner aint gonna pay out that much, so apart from the 26 players who are out of contract ,who are mostly U21's and U18's, everyone else in the above lists (Go & Get Rid)will still be here next season.
Sorry Eddie, but I think your miles off with some of your valuations there.
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Not really news to anyone i think. I'm not sure anyone at the club is currently on the 6k a week average reported there, even if they're subject to reductions for relegation. Lerner will have problems shifting any of them because the majority won't have any takers,and will dig their heels in and stay because, well.....they're not stupid. Makes it even more important to have a manager who can inspire the current squad.
Well, some of them probably aren't, or at least not their agents, but others.....
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£7m for Gabby? ;D
I imagine we'll take the hit just to get rid of players.
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I think if those valuations were accurate we wouldn't be sitting bottom of the table. If someone offered us £6.5m for Sinclair I wouldn't just bite their arm off I'd devour the entire torso.
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Siegrist - £300,000 £5,500 Out of contract end of season
A player who has never put on a 1st team shirt (in fact cannot remember his ever being a sub, even in cup games) is reputed to be on £5.5K per week
Fuck me that's a decent living for a none playing player
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Guzan - 7.5m - when a keeper we signed on a free has kept him out the side for half the season. Wow.
Westwood - 7.25m - hasn't pulled up any trees, would get interest from Championship clubs at best for no more than 1-2m.
Baker and Clark for a combined 10mill?!
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Already said i'd go for eddie howe, but we need someone who can get something out of the current squad and the dead cat bounce of Garde's start doesn't fill me with confidence. Anyone who thinks there's going to be a big influx of new players this summer is living in cloud cuckoo land so we're stuck with the current lot. Best we can hope for is perhaps a few cheap replacements for any that leave,
You might as well ask for Mourinho as Eddie Howe. Stay up or go down, he's nailed his colours to the mast on that one, and I don't envisage their board canning him if they just fail to stay up.
Bollocks to a big influx of new players, I'd settle for ridding the club of some the poison, which ironically enough will, for the most part, be those first out of the door of their own volition.
A goalkeeper, a right back, a centre forward who can move quicker than a tortoise and 2 new centre backs, assuming Lescott goes to the MLS and Okore finds a new deal elsewhere. Anything else is replacing squad filler we move on because there's a mutual understanding that time's up.
Just can't see that unfortunately. Who's gonna take say Gabby? The average for a 1st team player is 32k a week according to that article so you need a club who a)wants him and b)will pay him enough to piss off. We all remember the deadwood MON bought that saw out their contracts so unless it suits them, no-one is gonna be in a hurry to quit Villa. Bottom line is this board are not going to ok spending on players if the players they're replacing are still here - we can't afford to have a bomb squad anymore - any new arrivals will be totally dependant on who leaves
If you take the case of Gabby:
Signed a new contract within the last 18 months for reputedly less than the previously reported £65k/week.
Assume that the reduction was modest to say £60K/week.
Given that it's a recent contract, there should be a relegation clause in it. No one knows for sure how much, but given that our revenue is going to drop by around 60%, a 40% drop wouldn't be unreasonable, leaving Gabby on 60% of his £60K/week or £36K/week.
Suddenly you're not that far from "average" which means that some players are earning more, but you could certainly look at paying the difference down to say £30K/week without it being too painful.
Maybe Lambert would want him if he's still in charge at the chicken run come August. #preyforthis.
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The same point as above for Gabby applies to all the "hard to shift" players mentioned in eddie's list. Suddenly they look a lot more affordable to Championship (or even League 1) clubs. The question then becomes who wants them?
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ViD - That £32k average is for the Premiership. The Championship is just over £6k. I can't see that there's even a slight chance of anybody wanting to offer Gabby a deal that would even remotely match his terms at Villa, reduced by relegation or not.
Edit - In fact, I strongly believe that a large part of the rational for the Club not spending in January was the realisation that they're going to have to take a massive hit on the wage-bill next season.
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Of course they are. I can't see anything other than Gabby, Westwood and Bacuna being here until 2020 because they're on big contracts for years. Who's going to pay Bacuna £20k a week for another 4 years apart from us?
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ViD - That £32k average is for the Premiership. The Championship is just over £6k. I can't see that there's even a slight chance of anybody wanting to offer Gabby a deal that would even remotely match his terms at Villa, reduced by relegation or not.
Edit - In fact, I strongly believe that a large part of the rational for the Club not spending in January was the realisation that they're going to have to take a massive hit on the wage-bill next season.
Oops my mistake. :-[
Teach to comment whilst reading something else at the same time!
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ViD - That £32k average is for the Premiership. The Championship is just over £6k. I can't see that there's even a slight chance of anybody wanting to offer Gabby a deal that would even remotely match his terms at Villa, reduced by relegation or not.
Edit - In fact, I strongly believe that a large part of the rational for the Club not spending in January was the realisation that they're going to have to take a massive hit on the wage-bill next season.
Oops my mistake. :-[
Teach to comment whilst reading something else at the same time!
The pitfalls of H&V! :-)
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From another Mail article from November 2014.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/11/15/1416054063725_wps_10_NEW_WAGES_income_jpg.jpg)
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I'm guessing that the Chinese League has moved-up that list a few places since then?!
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Sorry Eddie, but I think your miles off with some of your valuations there.
As previously stated (on another thread), the valuations were as per pre-season on various websites.
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Sorry Eddie, but I think your miles off with some of your valuations there.
As previously stated (on another thread), the valuations were as per pre-season on various websites.
Which website thought that Scott Sinclair was worth £6.5m last summer when we signed him last summer for £2.5m?
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Sorry Eddie, but I think your miles off with some of your valuations there.
As previously stated (on another thread), the valuations were as per pre-season on various websites.
Which website thought that Scott Sinclair was worth £6.5m last summer when we signed him last summer for £2.5m?
www.martino'neillvaluations.co.uk
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Sorry Eddie, but I think your miles off with some of your valuations there.
As previously stated (on another thread), the valuations were as per pre-season on various websites.
Which website thought that Scott Sinclair was worth £6.5m last summer when we signed him last summer for £2.5m?
Cant remember the names of most sites, but Transfermarket was one of them. His current value on there is £2.63m, but I know it was a lot higher than that pre-season.
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Sorry Eddie, but I think your miles off with some of your valuations there.
As previously stated (on another thread), the valuations were as per pre-season on various websites.
Which website thought that Scott Sinclair was worth £6.5m last summer when we signed him last summer for £2.5m?
Cant remember the names of most sites, but Transfermarket was one of them. His current value on there is £2.63m, but I know it was a lot higher than that pre-season.
He wasn't he was £2.63 when he signed before he signed he was £2.25m, there's a valuation tracker on there. He was valued at £6m 4 years ago when he was still a footballer.