Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: not3bad on February 16, 2016, 01:11:23 PM

Title: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: not3bad on February 16, 2016, 01:11:23 PM
Aston Villa’s dreadful, dreary, disgraceful 6-0 loss to Liverpool this weekend re-opened the wounds of an awful season. Marooned at the bottom of the table, this result simply served as a timely reminder that the club are doomed, whilst simultaneously wiping away any budding optimism regarding survival.

Heading into the game, only three Premier League clubs had picked up more points than Villa in the last five matches. They’d accrued more than their opponents, Liverpool (eight compared to five), and had managed two wins in that period. Things were, definitively, on the up.

But Villa, while admittedly awful, were extremely unfortunate to be the first side this season to face Philippe Coutinho, Roberto Firmino and Daniel Sturridge on the same pitch at the same time. The first team to do that were near-guaranteed to take a beating, and Villa drew the shortest of straws here.

That fact must be recognised when panning Villa. The team gave up at 3-0 and some of the lifeless performances stand inexcusable, but the hosts were on a hiding to nothing the moment Coutinho, Firmino and Sturridge were all named starters.

Some of the criticism of the club that has followed the result has been, quite frankly, nonsensical; it’s been completely over the top in many areas—not least from Sky Sports, who covered the game, and aired Jamie Carragher’s extreme, over-the-top views on Super Sunday.

“They are an embarrassment and they have been for a few years.”

Labelling a team “an embarrassment” is strong, and it should be noted Villa staved off relegation in three successive seasons despite wage cuts and a complete lack of funds for transfers while reaching an FA Cup in 2015. That’s not the form of an “embarrassing” side.

“If that team is in the Championship it will be closer to the bottom than the top – there’s no doubt about that.”

Any team lacking confidence this severely, as Villa are, would struggle in any league. This squad of players’ morale has been crushed over the course of a torrid six months, and it’s probably unfair to speculate on how they’d do in a different division given all of the factors influencing play would be different. If this team started the season in the Championship, they’d be chasing promotion— there’s no doubt about that.

“I can’t imagine one Premier League manager looking at that team and thinking there’s one player there he’d want to take into his squad. That’s how poor they are.”

This is actual nonsense, sadly. It’s difficult to tell the true talent level of any Villa player due to fragile mentality of this beaten team, but to suggest no Premier League club would touch any of the players? All that statement has done is reinforce the strong belief that, regrettably, you haven’t paid enough attention to Villa this season.

Jordan Ayew has shown desire, determination, genuine ability and the propensity to score a wondergoal; his red card threat is a small price to pay for such a talent. Jordan Veretout is a good player who could flourish in the right environment, Idrissa Gueye is a workhorse many would snap up without question, and Jack Grealish’s stellar form under Tim Sherwood proves there’s a player in there one manager could truly benefit from.

It’s easy to level scathing comments at a side in such a poor league position following such a poor result, but it must be made clear that there any many mistruths to Carragher’s comments. This is not to absolve a poor Villa side of a shocking performance and season—no one in their right mind would attempt it—but the post-match punditry went past “over-the-top” and breached “inaccuracy” territory.

It’s a shame, because Carragher’s comments will (falsely) shape millions of opinions on Villa’s predicament and assets.

http://www.umaxit.com/index.php/columns/aston-villa-criticism-over-the-top-factually-inaccurate?
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: VillaAlways on February 16, 2016, 01:24:04 PM
Even though those players were back I don't think Liverpool played brilliantly,they didn't need to we gifted them all the goals.

And for a club of our size, stature and history we are an embarrassment and I'm glad he said it as it draws the media attention to the hopelessness of our current owner.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: old man villa fan on February 16, 2016, 01:37:41 PM
What was sadly lacking (and has been for a number of years) is when it went to 2-0 there was not one player pulling the players together and giving them encouragement/rollicking or whatever. The Team Captain and Club Captain are not worthy of the position. You may not like him (and I certainly don't) but just imagine John Terry in a similar position.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: eamonn on February 16, 2016, 01:43:32 PM
This article is a lot closer to the truth than Caragher's lazy analysis on Sunday. "People say those Derby and Sunderland teams were worse...I can't remember them. This Villa team is the worst"...he's meant to be measured, not sensationalist. Playing to the gallery while Henry giggled like a preening schoolkid. Valencia might not love ya Gary Neville but we appreciate you. 
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: Mister E on February 16, 2016, 01:50:26 PM
Forget the comments of so-called expert summarisers: most are inarticulate and inerudite.
However, the article printed in the OP hides some uncomfortable truths: we gave Liverpool too much space, too much possession and insufficient 'heat'. Our players were lethargic and unstructured, with concentration lapses not acceptable at the top level of a professional sport. Too many players were simply 'there', rather than emotionally, cognitively and physically engaged.

And that's why we're probably going down.

(https://image-store.slidesharecdn.com/7a50da62-9c21-42eb-b1a3-5d171ecd5982-original.jpeg)
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: aj2k77 on February 16, 2016, 01:54:25 PM
I don't agree that the first team to face Firmino, Sturridge and Coutinho were going to get a hiding at all.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: ChicagoLion on February 16, 2016, 02:08:34 PM
I don't agree that the first team to face Firmino, Sturridge and Coutinho were going to get a hiding at all.
Same here, any team that gives them the luxury of posession without any attempt to win the ball and watches a player who had been out injured walk in to the centre of the penalty area unchallenged is on a hiding to nothing.
The complete and total lack of fight was there for all to see.
I have no idea what preceded the players walking on to the field of play but something was not right.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: Boz on February 16, 2016, 02:12:52 PM
Forget the comments of so-called expert summarisers: most are inarticulate and inerudite.
However, the article printed in the OP hides some uncomfortable truths: we gave Liverpool too much space, too much possession and insufficient 'heat'. Our players were lethargic and unstructured, with concentration lapses not acceptable at the top level of a professional sport. Too many players were simply 'there', rather than emotionally, cognitively and physically engaged.

And that's why we're probably going down.

(https://image-store.slidesharecdn.com/7a50da62-9c21-42eb-b1a3-5d171ecd5982-original.jpeg)

Don't think probably comes into it
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: Billy Walker on February 16, 2016, 02:15:12 PM
"But Villa, while admittedly awful, were extremely unfortunate to be the first side this season to face Philippe Coutinho, Roberto Firmino and Daniel Sturridge on the same pitch at the same time. The first team to do that were near-guaranteed to take a beating..."

Hmm, certainly Sturrridge is a very decent goalscorer on his day but when did these three suddenly become Messi, Suarez and Neymar?
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: Chris Jameson on February 16, 2016, 02:15:38 PM
while Henry giggled like a preening schoolkid.   

I've not seen or heard much of Henry but whenever I have he's behaved as you described.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: themossman on February 16, 2016, 02:43:00 PM
I half agree. What wound me up on Sunday was all this talk about how we were making a poor Liverpool team look world class. In reality, they are world class in terms of profile, spend, squad, manager. It underlined the gulf in class that our best player from recent years, by miles, was on their bench amid tiresome jokes about cows' arses and banjos. Having said all that, we should have put up a much better fight but let's not lose sight of the fact that on paper they should be stuffing us.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: aj2k77 on February 16, 2016, 02:49:47 PM
They're midtable and had lost 8 and won 9 before playing us, they shouldn't be stuffing us at all. We should at the very least be making them work. This defeatist talk is bollocks. Now we're not even expecting us to be in a game against midtable teams.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on February 16, 2016, 02:51:16 PM
I think we have enough to concern ourselves about without worrying what Jamie Carragher thinks about us.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: themossman on February 16, 2016, 03:00:35 PM
They're midtable and had lost 8 and won 9 before playing us, they shouldn't be stuffing us at all. We should at the very least be making them work. This defeatist talk is bollocks. Now we're not even expecting us to be in a game against midtable teams.

Tell me one player we have who would get in their team, including subs.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: aj2k77 on February 16, 2016, 03:01:43 PM
They're midtable and had lost 8 and won 9 before playing us, they shouldn't be stuffing us at all. We should at the very least be making them work. This defeatist talk is bollocks. Now we're not even expecting us to be in a game against midtable teams.

Tell me one player we have who would get in their team, including subs.

Tell me one player who would get in the Liverpool team from Newcastle?
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: aj2k77 on February 16, 2016, 03:04:55 PM
You're just continuing the process of downgrading expectations to the degree where now a thumping should be expected as the norm in those type of games. I can't be having that.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: Skerra on February 16, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
I've been a supporter for more years that I care to remember and, I've never seen a Villa squad as toothless as this one.

Sadly, I have to disagree with the OP as, people like Jamie Carragher should be neutral and, just telling it like it is without having rose coloured specs to look through. I agree with all his points, as much as it hurts me to say that and, everything  he said is nothing that a lot of our own supporters feel deep down.

As I say, it really grieves me to say any of the above. I would much rather like to say, things are not going well just now but, they will soon be put right - can't see it myself though. Hope I'm 100% wrong.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: themossman on February 16, 2016, 03:46:59 PM
Well Newcastle is not a team I would aspire to be like particularly. They are capable of gutless, gormless displays as well.

Plus, there is a difference between saying 'we have been driven into the ground by Lerner to the extent that thrashings by Liverpool are to be expected', which is realistic, and 'we deserve to be beaten by Liverpool so we should lie down and accept it', which is clearly not my stance.

Basically, you can't get a squad like ours to beat a squad like theirs by motivating them and setting them up in clever formations. 'Try harder' is not applicable here.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: He wears a magic hat on February 16, 2016, 04:19:40 PM
In fairness Carragher has got a point. It always difficult to compare as we don't see enough of other team in depth but certainly from a Villa perspective I can not remember a more disgraceful performance in over 40 years of following us.

There is no excuse what so ever for that display, when you allow the opposition to bring the ball unopposed into our half and still not one player can make the effort to sprint 3-5 yards to close down then that to me say that says the team couldn't give a flying F*ck and were clearly to a man not trying. Totally and utterly unforgiveable
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: Ormy Droid on February 16, 2016, 04:21:14 PM
I know it's impossible but you really shouldn't take what the pundits say too seriously. Their job is to spout hyperbole, so we are THE WORST PREMIER LEAGUE TEAM EVER!, even though the Derby, Wolves, Swindon teams were probably even worse, but they're not playing at the moment and can't be RIDICULED.

Similarly, this might be the WORST VILLA TEAM EVER!, though the one that dropped into the third must've been pretty bad, I didn't see them myself, but I did see a lot of the 87 vintage and they were bloody awful, but didn't get paid too much by current standards. So while they were crap, I can't quite bring myself to hate them like the current lot. David Norton wouldn't have photocopied and held up a picture of his Montego would he?
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: clash city rocker on February 16, 2016, 04:35:07 PM
If we are largely stuck next season with the nucleus of the squad we have this season then we are in the shit. For a lot of championship sides playing us will be like a cup tie to them. Their players will raise their games against us.How many of our squad will raise their game when the chips are down ?
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: supertom on February 16, 2016, 04:35:30 PM
Derby in 08 were a genuinely poor side, hideously out of their depth. They tried hard but did not have any sort of quality to compete in this league.
Now we may be woefully short on quality but we've got a number of established Premiership players in our side and a few talent youngsters. We've also spent 50 odd million in the summer on players. The fact of the matter is, that we've shown no heart or desire for the vast majority of the season. The effort from many of the players, regardless of their ability, has been well below what's expected. No one seems to care. What of Mr Villa, Gabby? Horrible, horrible fucking c**t (that's being kind). Lescott had come in and shown a bit of form of late but that tweet bollocks shows he doesn't particularly give a toss. He's just coasting toward retirement or a cushty MLS move.

We're a little more comparable to Newcastle a few years back and the Sunderland side under McCarthy. Sides who should have done better given what was at their disposal. Sides were a lack of pride in the shirt, and players underperforming just hammered the nails in the coffin.

We're right up there with the worst sides to have shitted up this league and the attitude is perhaps the shittiest of all.

Fuck the fuckers. Pretty much every last one of the bastards. And as others mentioned, this lot have to rank as the crappiest, most detestable squad we've ever assembled.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: TelfordVilla on February 16, 2016, 05:14:25 PM
None of the sunderland team would get in the liverpool team either, but they drew 2-2. They didnt stroll around without a care in the world dreaming of driving home in their shiny new Bentley as soon as this pointless 90 minutes of 'work' was done.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: AV89 on February 16, 2016, 05:25:32 PM
In fairness to Derby and Sunderland they were newly promoted clubs who were Ill equipped for the league.

We've been a top flight club for 3 decades.  It's inexcusable for us to be as ill prepared as we have become.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: old man villa fan on February 16, 2016, 05:32:56 PM
The problem is once a couple stop putting the effort in, it is beyond the other players to make up for it. The others then become dispirited and it looks like they are not putting effort in as well.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: Nunkin1965 on February 16, 2016, 06:37:31 PM
In all honesty I am completely fed up of excusing the team for this or that reason.
Playing opposition that on paper is better doesn't mean we've lost before we start. If this were the case we'd just predict correct scores every time.

I watched a Villa team stand off and admire from minute 1.
I watched a Villa team with no passion, desire or commitment.
I could pick anybody but  Ashley Westwood got a booking at 0-4 and was in the refs ear at 0-5 after Clynes tackle on Veretout. So where is this passion at 0-0??
A majority of the team gave up.

I would suggest that some of the team had lost that game even before a ball was kicked.

I'm not buying this "We'll cope with the Championship " argument. We are miles away from competing to get back with this squad.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: john e on February 16, 2016, 06:39:53 PM
I'm not one of the sites pessimists,
 but I agree with Carragher more than I agree with the article sadly
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: saunders_heroes on February 16, 2016, 06:40:30 PM
In fairness to Derby and Sunderland they were newly promoted clubs who were Ill equipped for the league.

We've been a top flight club for 3 decades.  It's inexcusable for us to be as ill prepared as we have become.

Hear hear. It takes a unique kind of fuckwittery to relegate a club as big as Aston Villa. Our PL infrastructure has been hacked away for 6 seasons now and it's taken that long for it to finally crumble. We've been sabotaged by Randy Lerner.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: Ron Manager on February 16, 2016, 07:07:41 PM
I don't agree that the first team to face Firmino, Sturridge and Coutinho were going to get a hiding at all.

and neither do I. In fact that statement is patently ridiculous.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: aj2k77 on February 16, 2016, 07:24:27 PM
I don't agree that the first team to face Firmino, Sturridge and Coutinho were going to get a hiding at all.

and neither do I. In fact that statement is patently ridiculous.

As well that the expectation should be that we get a hiding off Liverpool, what are we on about when there's feelings like that? Complete surrender, lying down like a mat. I'm a realist and I know we are shit but there's no fucking way I'd ever expect the Villa to take a gutless hammering from anyone and I certainly won't be talking up Firmino like he's some reborn Maradonna.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: Nunkin1965 on February 16, 2016, 07:53:09 PM
They're midtable and had lost 8 and won 9 before playing us, they shouldn't be stuffing us at all. We should at the very least be making them work. This defeatist talk is bollocks. Now we're not even expecting us to be in a game against midtable teams.

Tell me one player we have who would get in their team, including subs.

Tell me one player who would get in the Liverpool team from Newcastle?

Tell me 1 player who gets into the Man Utd team from Sunderland?

Did they go into that game with the right attitude? The result suggests yes. Not going to happen every week I accept but not happening any week with us.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: Locko on February 16, 2016, 07:58:27 PM
In fairness to Derby and Sunderland they were newly promoted clubs who were Ill equipped for the league.

We've been a top flight club for 3 decades.  It's inexcusable for us to be as ill prepared as we have become.

Hear hear. It takes a unique kind of fuckwittery to relegate a club as big as Aston Villa. Our PL infrastructure has been hacked away for 6 seasons now and it's taken that long for it to finally crumble. We've been sabotaged by Randy Lerner.

The hide and seek grand master with his witless appointments and dereliction of duty has led us to this sorry state of affairs. As wretched as our players are, this whole sorry debacle has to be laid solely at the door of our brain donor owner. A pox on his house, gutless wanker that he is...
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: The Edge on February 16, 2016, 08:00:09 PM
I don't agree that the first team to face Firmino, Sturridge and Couthino were going to get a hiding at all.
But it's a fact that the first team to face that trio was us and we did lose?......By a landslide.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: saunders_heroes on February 16, 2016, 08:01:45 PM
I don't agree that the first team to face Firmino, Sturridge and Couthino were going to get a hiding at all.
But it's a fact that the first team to face that trio was us and we did lose?......By a landslide.

Well let's see if the next team they play away from home get thrashed and humiliated as well then.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: The Edge on February 16, 2016, 08:05:54 PM
I don't agree that the first team to face Firmino, Sturridge and Couthino were going to get a hiding at all.
But it's a fact that the first team to face that trio was us and we did lose.......By a landslide.

Well let's see if the next team they play away from home get thrashed and humiliated as well then.
probably not. I just think it was the perfect storm and that trio returning on the same day for the first time this season compounded things.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: ldavfc4eva on February 16, 2016, 08:07:00 PM
From the Geordies team, Krul? wijnaldum? sissoko. They have a few decent players Newcastle but all seem to be attackers, they remind me of the old Newcastle back in the mid nineties but without the same amount of quality (Shearer/Ferdinand/Ginola)

Sunderland have a lot of experienced players who are well past it,O'Shea/Brown and also players who have come from big clubs but haven't fulfilled there potential Johnson/Rodwell.

I couldn't give a toss about the other teams who are near us though and what the various reasons for  them being shit are, I would just like to see some commitment to the cause from whoever pulls on the claret and blue on a Saturday afternoon and not a single player showed that against Liverpool.

I genuinely think some of our lot are "on the beach" already and are just waiting for the season to end so they can find another club to move to or in Lescotts case retire to.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: The Edge on February 16, 2016, 08:09:43 PM
In fairness to Derby and Sunderland they were newly promoted clubs who were Ill equipped for the league.

We've been a top flight club for 3 decades.  It's inexcusable for us to be as ill prepared as we have become.

Hear hear. It takes a unique kind of fuckwittery to relegate a club as big as Aston Villa. Our PL infrastructure has been hacked away for 6 seasons now and it's taken that long for it to finally crumble. We've been sabotaged by Randy Lerner.

The hide and seek grand master with his witless appointments and dereliction of duty has led us to this sorry state of affairs. As wretched as our players are, this whole sorry debacle has to be laid solely at the door of our brain donor owner. A pox on his house, gutless wanker that he is...
Well put mate. I did hear that Randy Lerner was the world's first surviving brain transplant donor.
And the guy who called it "fuckwittery"....
..Brilliant!
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: Locko on February 16, 2016, 08:12:01 PM
From the Geordies team, Krul? wijnaldum? sissoko. They have a few decent players Newcastle but all seem to be attackers, they remind me of the old Newcastle back in the mid nineties but without the same amount of quality (Shearer/Ferdinand/Ginola)

Sunderland have a lot of experienced players who are well past it,O'Shea/Brown and also players who have come from big clubs but haven't fulfilled there potential Johnson/Rodwell.

I couldn't give a toss about the other teams who are near us though and what the various reasons for  them being shit are, I would just like to see some commitment to the cause from whoever pulls on the claret and blue on a Saturday afternoon and not a single player showed that against Liverpool.

I genuinely think some of our lot are "on the beach" already and are just waiting for the season to end so they can find another club to move to or in Lescotts case retire to.
They've thrown the towel in, but the owner did six years ago, the tone is set from the very top.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: SirSteveUK on February 16, 2016, 08:18:28 PM
Another place you can find stupid,  grossly uninformed comments from people who have no ******g idea about our season is the BBC live coverage page on match day.  Full of cretins who just want top appear witty - and morons who only read the tabloids.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: olaftab on February 16, 2016, 08:33:31 PM
I like that article however do not agree that the mentioned Liverpool 3 will be unplayable for any opposition.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: wince on February 16, 2016, 11:00:53 PM
Disagree with the article as it shows that we expect to lose as soon as the big teams come a knocking. There should be no games that we write off. What our team is suffering from, aside from the ability to look like subbuteo men, is shattered confidence. I am in no doubt that they know how shit they are. With no players on the pitch with a football mind and the skills to match, it was inevitable and I believe Stoke will turn us over because our team is beyond help. However, there is enough quality with the right mindset to create a team that can win. I have to believe that and come stoke, it will be expect to lose but hope to win
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: themossman on February 16, 2016, 11:06:01 PM
Another place you can find stupid,  grossly uninformed comments from people who have no ******g idea about our season is the BBC live coverage page on match day.  Full of cretins who just want top appear witty - and morons who only read the tabloids.

God those tweets from the public they put on there piss me right off. They all have the flavour of those Facebook Manu vs Liverpool bantz page bellends. Know fuck all about football, 'support' big 4 teams, endlessly recycling unfunny jokes about hitting stable doors, players in pockets, terry shagging wives. Oh my sides. Waste of oxygen ******.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: passport1 on February 16, 2016, 11:22:14 PM
If this article had been written by Villas PR Dept. they could not have done a better job. anyway I feel a whole lot better now knowing that any criticism by former professionals who have played the game at the highest level was factually inaccurate and over the top.

 "If this team started the season in the Championship, they’d be chasing promotion— there’s no doubt about that." I'm really looking forward to next season now Sam Tighe has put me straight.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 16, 2016, 11:30:52 PM
Something happened behind the scenes in the dressing room last week in my opinion.  Just how else do you explain the complete and utter lack of application during Sunday's game.  Who are they trying to kid - lescott had it right there was no commitment which is professional negligence in my view.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: themossman on February 16, 2016, 11:41:02 PM
Garde was pretty vocal about the poor performance against Norwich. Did that rattle cages?
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 16, 2016, 11:42:46 PM
I certainly don't see much warmth towards the manager from the player a lot of the time.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: sickbeggar on February 16, 2016, 11:45:21 PM
I can only go on the scousers opinions and those i know didn't think they played that well or think Liverpool 2016 at full strength is a particulary frightening prospect. It was like some semi-pro boxer faced with some overweight middle-aged drunk picking a fight with them. Quiet satisfaction they knocked him out, but they're not going to brag about it
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: tomd2103 on February 17, 2016, 12:02:39 AM
Derby in 08 were a genuinely poor side, hideously out of their depth. They tried hard but did not have any sort of quality to compete in this league.


Funny you should mention them, as Sunday was very reminiscent of this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e9guiLTciHk/youtube
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: The Edge on February 17, 2016, 12:22:49 AM
Garde was pretty vocal about the poor performance against Norwich. Did that rattle cages?
more like they spat out their diamonte dummies out.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: The Left Side on February 17, 2016, 03:01:22 AM
Derby in 08 were a genuinely poor side, hideously out of their depth. They tried hard but did not have any sort of quality to compete in this league.


Funny you should mention them, as Sunday was very reminiscent of this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e9guiLTciHk/youtube

God that is sad to watch, just looking at the players we had... Barry, Young, Mellberg, Carew, Bouma, etc.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: pbavfckuwait on February 17, 2016, 05:41:49 AM
We did not go into this game on a bad run so the confidence should have been flowing, but from minute one we never looked like we were going to compete, whether that is because something had happened during the week and it was the nucleus of the side said "Up yours Garde", which I happen to believe to be very near the mark, as it also showed in Remis seemingly lack of reaction, as if he was nearly expecting it.
Whatever the course, please please , please Liverpool were only middling average, the one thing we are guaranteed, if we are not on the top of our game, because of the dirth of quality and lack of creativity and a goal scorer we are gonna get beat.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: Hoppo on February 17, 2016, 06:33:44 AM
I've heard the players were sulking Sunday because an overseas trip to the sun was cancelled., cost cutting.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: ldavfc4eva on February 17, 2016, 07:13:29 AM
I watched a programme on channel 5 last night, based on British people who live or holiday on the cheap to Benidorm.

The place that featured was called "Villa Mare", that's about the level our players deserve as an overseas trip if anyone else watched it.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: Mister E on February 17, 2016, 07:45:24 AM
I've heard the players were sulking Sunday because an overseas trip to the sun was cancelled., cost cutting.
If it was cancelled for cost reasons, then the club are totally barmy (Sunderland, I note, have gone off to the sun; interesting to see how their form goes in two week' time). And, it does not augur well for the future if the club are cutting costs in this way.
Equally, the players are completely smallminded if that leads them to effectively withdraw their labour for an important game.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: The Edge on February 17, 2016, 08:55:42 AM
I've heard the players were sulking Sunday because an overseas trip to the sun was cancelled., cost cutting.
If it was cancelled for cost reasons, then the club are totally barmy (Sunderland, I note, have gone off to the sun; interesting to see how their form goes in two week' time). And, it does not augur well for the future if the club are cutting costs in this way.
Equally, the players are completely smallminded if that leads them to effectively withdraw their labour for an important game.
[/quote
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: The Edge on February 17, 2016, 09:04:28 AM
I've heard the players were sulking Sunday because an overseas trip to the sun was cancelled., cost cutting.
If it was cancelled for cost reasons, then the club are totally barmy (Sunderland, I note, have gone off to the sun; interesting to see how their form goes in two week' time). And, it does not augur well for the future if the club are cutting costs in this way.
Equally, the players are completely smallminded if that leads them to effectively withdraw their labour for an important game.
[/quote
I  have no inside info on this but find it completely plausible. Our team is in at a freezing cold Bodymoor heath while others are training in the sunshine on a break /team bonding exercise. I heard that Leicester are in Vegas?  Look what team spirit has achieved for them this season. God knows we need that spirit more than anyone right now.  So yet more dimwit money saving decisions by the clowns running our once mighty football club.
 
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: The Edge on February 17, 2016, 09:05:53 AM
I know. I'm having a mare.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: passport1 on February 17, 2016, 09:27:48 AM
Looks like the bean counter Hollis has got his feet under the table then.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: Dr Butler on February 17, 2016, 09:33:27 AM
I've heard the players were sulking Sunday because an overseas trip to the sun was cancelled., cost cutting.

sulking before or after that pathetic performance ?  the poor loves...

UTV
The Doc
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: LeeB on February 17, 2016, 09:33:40 AM
I've heard the players were sulking Sunday because an overseas trip to the sun was cancelled., cost cutting.
If it was cancelled for cost reasons, then the club are totally barmy (Sunderland, I note, have gone off to the sun; interesting to see how their form goes in two week' time). And, it does not augur well for the future if the club are cutting costs in this way.
Equally, the players are completely smallminded if that leads them to effectively withdraw their labour for an important game.
[/quote
I  have no inside info on this but find it completely plausible. Our team is in at a freezing cold Bodymoor heath while others are training in the sunshine on a break /team bonding exercise. I heard that Leicester are in Vegas?  Look what team spirit has achieved for them this season. God knows we need that spirit more than anyone right now.  So yet more dimwit money saving decisions by the clowns running our once mighty football club.
 

Fuck them, they can train in the cold.

They've run less than any other team and got themselves relegated before the trees blossom, they can fuck off with their mid season trip to Dubai.

Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: PaulTheVillan on February 17, 2016, 09:38:12 AM
Liverpool fan at work just had a chat with me. He's always had a soft spot for us.

He said ability can be excused when replaced with effort. Not a single Villa player came off with a sweaty shirt.

Not fit to wear the shirt.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: Phil from the upper holte on February 17, 2016, 10:37:35 AM
I said at the time on the post match thread I think, Carragher can go fuck himself and I STILL stand by those comments, I actually miss Neville I think his comments would have been a lot better informed and balanced.

That said I don't give a shit who started for them the team played like a bunch of uninterested players that had been out on the piss saturday night and not a leader in sight
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: Fasth56 on February 17, 2016, 10:44:30 AM
They're midtable and had lost 8 and won 9 before playing us, they shouldn't be stuffing us at all. We should at the very least be making them work. This defeatist talk is bollocks. Now we're not even expecting us to be in a game against midtable teams.

Tell me one player we have who would get in their team, including subs.

I would get in their team over Jordan Henderson, also if I needed another reason to dislike the wingeing whineing scousers, Carragher has given it me.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: VillaAlways on February 17, 2016, 11:02:03 AM
I've heard the players were sulking Sunday because an overseas trip to the sun was cancelled., cost cutting.
If it was cancelled for cost reasons, then the club are totally barmy (Sunderland, I note, have gone off to the sun; interesting to see how their form goes in two week' time). And, it does not augur well for the future if the club are cutting costs in this way.
Equally, the players are completely smallminded if that leads them to effectively withdraw their labour for an important game.
[/quote
I  have no inside info on this but find it completely plausible. Our team is in at a freezing cold Bodymoor heath while others are training in the sunshine on a break /team bonding exercise. I heard that Leicester are in Vegas?  Look what team spirit has achieved for them this season. God knows we need that spirit more than anyone right now.  So yet more dimwit money saving decisions by the clowns running our once mighty football club.
 

Fuck them, they can train in the cold.

They've run less than any other team and got themselves relegated before the trees blossom, they can fuck off with their mid season trip to Dubai.


What he said
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: The Edge on February 17, 2016, 11:09:01 AM
I've heard the players were sulking Sunday because an overseas trip to the sun was cancelled., cost cutting.
If it was cancelled for cost reasons, then the club are totally barmy (Sunderland, I note, have gone off to the sun; interesting to see how their form goes in two week' time). And, it does not augur well for the future if the club are cutting costs in this way.
Equally, the players are completely smallminded if that leads them to effectively withdraw their labour for an important game.
[/quote
I  have no inside info on this but find it completely plausible. Our team is in at a freezing cold Bodymoor heath while others are training in the sunshine on a break /team bonding exercise. I heard that Leicester are in Vegas?  Look what team spirit has achieved for them this season. God knows we need that spirit more than anyone right now.  So yet more dimwit money saving decisions by the clowns running our once mighty football club.
 

Fuck them, they can train in the cold.

They've run less than any other team and got themselves relegated before the trees blossom, they can fuck off with their mid season trip to Dubai.
I know what your saying and I feel your pain. But if a trip abroad during a 2 week break is what it takes to inject some team spirit into the fuckers then I'd pay for it myself.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: aj2k77 on February 17, 2016, 11:52:38 AM
What do they think they've done to deserve anything but pissing down rain and hard work? They're currently in the middle of the worst season results wise in the history of the club the ******.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on February 17, 2016, 11:58:33 AM
Honestly these players are so far removed from anything remotely resembling reality these days.  What do they expect from supporters and management alike when they can't even be arsed to close down properly for 90 minutes against a decent side.  I saw Joe Hart on some chat show last week and he was saying that he doesn't know the way to anywhere really, he just gets on the bus every week and has no clue in which direction they are going in, it is all taken care of, all he has to do is get himself to the training ground to be picked up.  Clueless.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: aj2k77 on February 17, 2016, 12:06:01 PM
Is it safe to assume that there will be no end of season awards again?
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: ROBBO on February 17, 2016, 12:06:54 PM
The fact that they have as a unit covered less ground than any other team in the league clearly points to our downfall, they are a disgrace.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: aj2k77 on February 17, 2016, 12:11:19 PM
Early goal and late goals as well point to a lack of concentration and not being up for it from the off. They're fannies, the lot of them. They can all do one post season for all I care.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: The Edge on February 17, 2016, 12:11:37 PM
What do they think they've done to deserve anything but pissing down rain and hard work? They're currently in the middle of the worst season results wise in the history of the club the c***s.
They don't DESERVE a break. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that if taking them away on a break can help team bonding then bring it on. The manager has worked them hard on the training ground. That doesn't seem have done the trick does it? 
 
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: aj2k77 on February 17, 2016, 12:17:57 PM
It's mid February. We are bottom of the league. We are going to be relegated. A large portion of the squad aren't fit to wear the shirts they get to grace each week. A large portion of the squad will be gone in the summer, possibly the manager too. It's too late to pamper them and nurture a team spirit, that should have been done in the summer and over the season. The game is up and we are fucked. We'd have to be complete fucking morons to be sending them off on another all expenses paid shin dig in the situation we are in. Fuck me we might as well offer them some more bonuses whilst we are at it and see if that works.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: LeeB on February 17, 2016, 12:22:27 PM
What do they think they've done to deserve anything but pissing down rain and hard work? They're currently in the middle of the worst season results wise in the history of the club the c***s.
They don't DESERVE a break. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that if taking them away on a break can help team bonding then bring it on. The manager has worked them hard on the training ground. That doesn't seem have done the trick does it? 
 


No, they've sulked about it, but the fact is they collectively work less than any other team.

And thats not an opinion, it's a damming fact.

I'd take them to the fucking Faroe Islands for training.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: clash city rocker on February 17, 2016, 12:23:57 PM
If I didn't perform well at work I'm sure my boss wouldn't send me of to the sun for a couple of weeks. I would be down the road muttering.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: Jimbo on February 17, 2016, 12:28:28 PM
The club has thrown the towel in, now the players have too, and the manager will be next. Maybe it's towels we should be throwing onto the pitch instead of scarves?
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: PaulTheVillan on February 17, 2016, 12:45:27 PM
Our players deserve a sunny warm weather break

Head first straight into the sun.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: AVH87 on February 17, 2016, 12:50:33 PM
Back to the OP, it's just Carragher being sensationalist. He said a season or two ago on Sky something like 'Villa have massive potential, they should be top 8 as a minimum'.

Lying down against upper mid-table Liverpool is inexcusable though, they really aren't all that, even Newcastle beat them 2-0 not so long ago.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: The Edge on February 17, 2016, 01:07:21 PM
If I didn't perform well at work I'm sure my boss wouldn't send me of to the sun for a couple of weeks. I would be down the road muttering.
Ok you tell me how they're going to build a team spirit. The fuckers don't even speak to each other after a game.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: OzVilla on February 17, 2016, 01:13:04 PM
Back to the OP, it's just Carragher being sensationalist. He said a season or two ago on Sky something like 'Villa have massive potential, they should be top 8 as a minimum'.


IIRC it was him and Stevie G that said Villa woud be a really strong team in a few years time, once the younger players matured, yes that was Clark, Baker, Lowton, Bennett, Bannan, Albrighton etc.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: martin o`who?? on February 17, 2016, 01:18:04 PM
Is it safe to assume that there will be no end of season awards again?
Yes, an award for being the Shittest. (is that a word? if not then i just invented it).
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: OzVilla on February 17, 2016, 01:20:26 PM
Is it safe to assume that there will be no end of season awards again?
Yes, an award for being the Shittest. (is that a word? if not then i just invented it).

Christ that really is a toughie.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: martin o`who?? on February 17, 2016, 01:20:30 PM
And getting back to the core subject of this thread, it is my honest opinion that no Criticism of this whole sorry saga can be "Over the top".
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: The Edge on February 17, 2016, 01:21:41 PM
Is it safe to assume that there will be no end of season awards again?
Yes, an award for being the Shittest. (is that a word? if not then i just invented it).
It is a word. I looked it up under Birmingham City.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: gpbarr on February 17, 2016, 01:26:22 PM
In all honesty, does it really matter - who cares what the media has to say, agreeable or not? Water off a ducks back.

The fact is we are a club drowning under an ocean of garbage, and its getting worse month to month. Attention and energy ought be focused on what the fans want to do about that, as opposed getting distracted by pundits who will say anything to try justify their profession. 
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: martin o`who?? on February 17, 2016, 01:31:55 PM
Is it safe to assume that there will be no end of season awards again?
Yes, an award for being the Shittest. (is that a word? if not then i just invented it).
It is a word. I looked it up under Birmingham City.
Heh! - Heh! you naughty boy!!..
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: SavosLeftFoot on February 17, 2016, 02:11:37 PM
Someone was bound to write an article like this as it goes against the prevailing opinion about Villa at the moment. To a certain extent it has worked for the author who has been shared around various media formats and forums. At the end of the day football is about nuanced opinions and retrospective foresight (.."I would have never done that.."). Therefore it is not a "fact" we were on a hiding to nothing as soon as the three players mentioned were named in the lineup.

I think, as so many seem to, that it is more the lack of any effort from players that is oh so galling. Giving time/space, not closing the ball down and having no real leaders on the pitch organising/influencing each other or the game. Next season will require more than anything acquiring some tough tackling no nonsense leaders.   
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: cdward on February 17, 2016, 02:52:35 PM
I was watching Champions League highlights on TV3 (irish channel) here last night, with Neil Lennon and Kevin Kilbane as guests/analysts.

They talked about Chelsea and Eden Hazards apathy and lack of effort. The point was made that during the poor run that Chelsea had at the start of the season, the players would probably be have been talking amongst themselves saying that if things didn't improve they would probably be looking around for a new team, much the same way that any team of individuals would talk.

The point they were making was that it would not be a surprise if Eden Hazard, Costa et al were looking for a move away from Chelsea, as at the start of the season the whole team were probably looking for a way out.

It struck me that this is the situation at Villa. It wouldn't be a surprise if a lot of the players were talking about leaving, it would certainly explain the recent behaviours of Richards, Lescott, Guzan, N'Zog etc', and the comments from Okore, if they were all standing around the water cooler discussing how they could get away from a club that will be relegated.

I suppose it would be just like working in a company that were performing below targets, and being run by idiots, you would want out as well.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: john e on February 17, 2016, 02:56:26 PM
I was watching Champions League highlights on TV3 (irish channel) here last night, with Neil Lennon and Kevin Kilbane as guests/analysts.

They talked about Chelsea and Eden Hazards apathy and lack of effort. The point was made that during the poor run that Chelsea had at the start of the season, the players would probably be have been talking amongst themselves saying that if things didn't improve they would probably be looking around for a new team, much the same way that any team of individuals would talk.

The point they were making was that it would not be a surprise if Eden Hazard, Costa et al were looking for a move away from Chelsea, as at the start of the season the whole team were probably looking for a way out.

It struck me that this is the situation at Villa. It wouldn't be a surprise if a lot of the players were talking about leaving, it would certainly explain the recent behaviours of Richards, Lescott, Guzan, N'Zog etc', and the comments from Okore, if they were all standing around the water cooler discussing how they could get away from a club that will be relegated.

I suppose it would be just like working in a company that were performing below targets, and being run by idiots, you would want out as well.

they wont be getting away while they are on hefty contracts, look at Nzog he will go this time only because we will stop paying him

no one will want a bunch of useless relegated has beens, and even less likely will pay decent wages for them in which case they will do exactly what Nzog has done

unfortunately we are stuck with most of them
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: Ads on February 17, 2016, 05:56:11 PM
None of them will ever play for a club as big as Aston Villa if they played until the rapture.
Title: Re: Aston Villa Criticism Post-Liverpool: Over The Top & Factually Inaccurate
Post by: Louzie0 on February 17, 2016, 06:07:35 PM
None of them will ever play for a club as big as Aston Villa if they played until the rapture.

And then they'd be left back....
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