Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Marton on December 19, 2015, 05:42:14 PM

Title: We've got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: Marton on December 19, 2015, 05:42:14 PM
...yet cant seem to make proper use of it.

Remember Albrighton? Weak, scrawny winger at Villa. Promising but stopped evolving.
Well if you watched Leicester lately they managed to turn that guy into a fast-paced tank...
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: tomd2103 on December 19, 2015, 06:19:19 PM
Gana and Sanchez continually give the ball away.  Awful stuff.
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: CT on December 19, 2015, 06:20:57 PM
I've been wondering for years what we do at this place during the week.
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: Deano's Mullet on December 19, 2015, 06:27:41 PM
Play the kids they can't do any worse ffs
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: ciggiesnbeer on December 19, 2015, 07:30:50 PM
I think the "excellent training facilities" thing has run its course. Its 8 years old and most clubs have facilities as good or near as good as we do these days.

Like much about our club its an old good news story that is rehashed simply because we dont have any newer ones.
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: Legion on December 19, 2015, 07:49:18 PM
BMH and the Academy coaching has gone steadily downhill in the last few years.
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: Fuse on December 20, 2015, 12:21:25 AM
BMH and the Academy coaching has gone steadily downhill in the last few years.

Funnily enough our academy hasn't been the same since BMH got upgraded
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: adrenachrome on December 20, 2015, 12:48:18 AM
BMH and the Academy coaching has gone steadily downhill in the last few years.

Funnily enough our academy hasn't been the same since BMH got upgraded

It would seem so, on the face of things.

Any theories on why this should be so?
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 20, 2015, 01:37:00 AM
I've been wondering for years what we do at this place during the week.

Record bad Santa videos
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: oswald funkletrumpet on December 20, 2015, 08:12:19 AM
BMH and the Academy coaching has gone steadily downhill in the last few years.

Funnily enough our academy hasn't been the same since BMH got upgraded

grealish apart who has come through our academy in the last 4 seasons?
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: PeterWithe on December 20, 2015, 08:22:51 AM
Might also be worth noting that players like Delph and Albrighton have bulked up a lot since leaving us, I reckon we've certainly been left behind in terms of fitness and strength the last few years.
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: Steve67 on December 20, 2015, 08:35:28 AM
It ain't what you do its the way that you do it. Put the right people in to run it properly and we might see an improvement.  Hopefully, Garde is that man.
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: Dante Lavelli on December 20, 2015, 09:39:47 AM
It ain't what you do its the way that you do it. Put the right people in to run it properly and we might see an improvement.  Hopefully, Garde is that man.

From what Tom Ross said the other week, the other chap Hendrik Almstadt is more likely to have this responsibility.

It's typical Randy, he spent a fortune on the training ground but then never put the knowledge/people in place to utilise the facilities.  At the very least Fox seems to be addressing this void, although only time will tell if he has selected the correct people.
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: saunders_heroes on December 20, 2015, 10:01:54 AM
You can have the best facilities in the world but if you're not going to invest in decent players then it won't make an iota of difference.
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: tomd2103 on December 20, 2015, 11:26:49 AM
BMH and the Academy coaching has gone steadily downhill in the last few years.

It may be on the verge of sacrilege, but maybe the time has come for a clean sweep of the academy set up. 
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: PaulMcGrathsNo5Shirt on December 20, 2015, 12:38:28 PM
BMH and the Academy coaching has gone steadily downhill in the last few years.

It may be on the verge of sacrilege, but maybe the time has come for a clean sweep of the academy set up. 

I think there is a great academy there, the problem is developing players from academy level to the first team, which let's be honest the return has been poor now over a number of years.
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: walsall villain on December 20, 2015, 12:46:56 PM
BMH and the Academy coaching has gone steadily downhill in the last few years.

It may be on the verge of sacrilege, but maybe the time has come for a clean sweep of the academy set up. 

I think there is a great academy there, the problem is developing players from academy level to the first team, which let's be honest the return has been poor now over a number of years.
I only watch the first team so this is a genuine question, do we have a playing style philosophy that runs through all levels? I'm guessing not? I think we need a manager and team of coaches who are consistent with what they expect so that as players move through the levels they know what is expected of them. This is hardly likely to happen with regular manager and coach hiring and firing.
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: class-of-82 on December 20, 2015, 06:28:11 PM
People saying that albrighton and snake have bulked and got more energy since they left,
Anyone whose goes to a gym will of heard of a legal supplement called creative.,it gives you so much power and energy it's unreal I have tried it a few times and the results are amazing.

First thing Arsenal wenger did when he took over at Arsenal was to put the first team on it and it didn't do Viera and co much harm did it

Get em all on it now remi
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: Legion on December 20, 2015, 06:29:22 PM
Gabby has shares in the company.
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: oswald funkletrumpet on December 22, 2015, 09:49:53 AM
People saying that albrighton and snake have bulked and got more energy since they left,
Anyone whose goes to a gym will of heard of a legal supplement called creative.,it gives you so much power and energy it's unreal I have tried it a few times and the results are amazing.

First thing Arsenal wenger did when he took over at Arsenal was to put the first team on it and it didn't do Viera and co much harm did it

Get em all on it now remi

creatine

I used it 15 years ago so hardly a new concept, having said that I imagine our training staff look with with wonder every morning at a light bulb whilst whispering that be magic
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: Jimbo on December 22, 2015, 10:28:45 AM
All the gear but no idea.
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: old man villa fan on December 22, 2015, 10:48:44 AM
I do not know what the set up is like or how long people have been around so cannot comment with background knowledge but I would be looking at motivation and whether things have become a bit to cosy.
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: Bad English on December 22, 2015, 11:40:13 AM
People saying that Albrighton and snake have bulked and got more energy since they left,

Aintgonnascore has already got the bulk; he just needs to leave in order to get more energy.
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: martin o`who?? on December 22, 2015, 01:09:57 PM
BMH and the Academy coaching has gone steadily downhill in the last few years.

Funnily enough our academy hasn't been the same since BMH got upgraded

grealish apart who has come through our academy in the last 4 seasons?
Quite a few have "come through" but being classed as a success - now thats another matter.
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: oswald funkletrumpet on December 22, 2015, 01:30:49 PM
BMH and the Academy coaching has gone steadily downhill in the last few years.

Funnily enough our academy hasn't been the same since BMH got upgraded

grealish apart who has come through our academy in the last 4 seasons?
Quite a few have "come through" but being classed as a success - now thats another matter.

Who?

baker and clark were playing in 2010
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: Boz on December 22, 2015, 01:43:58 PM
Great facilities but not matched by the quality of staff, lack of a cohesive strategy or a set of objectives to be measured against.
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: oswald funkletrumpet on December 22, 2015, 01:47:33 PM
Great facilities but not matched by the quality of staff, lack of a cohesive strategy or a set of objectives to be measured against.

Have to agree with that, after all they couldn't work out that westwoods corners were shit for 3 seasons or tell gabby how to create space
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: achilles on December 22, 2015, 02:16:16 PM
KMac has already shown how shit he is by his attempts at acting manager!
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: Gareth on December 22, 2015, 02:16:41 PM
Back in the day of the Moores' team winning the youth cup & through to Albrighton, Delfouneso etc we a) used to keep players too long and b) kept players at club to succeed at reserve team level when they needed to get out and play proper men's football.

When you watched our youngsters play the likes of Chelsea they went down the line of having a team of 18yr old 6ft+ athletes whilst we seemed to encourage the smaller players.  Different approaches who knows which is correct...

There's still a lot to be said for being able to introduce youngsters into either a good or at very least a functioning side.

i don't think there is any right or wrong way to run a youth system & whilst our end game is always to get players through to be 1st team regulars it is also about getting as many of the lads to be in a position to have a career at a level of football & supporting those that don't.  Have we succeeded in either of those
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: oswald funkletrumpet on December 22, 2015, 03:36:46 PM
case in point is Lewis Kinsella, left back where we have been struggling, the lad is 21 - if he ain't good enough now then get rid rid.

We will have players in the academy aged 30, married with a couple of kids and able to grow a full beard but they won't be quite ready for the first team.

Case in point is Adama, although not from the academy, still very raw but with a shitload of pace and potential who we are paying a rumoured 70k a week, but he's not ready so gets no game time or 5 mins.

It's not like we are setting the division alight so take a fucking chance instead of the same old same old bollocks and wondering why it always goes tits up.
Title: Re: We got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: villasjf on December 22, 2015, 04:01:40 PM
We should try and get some of Southamptons youth team trainers on board.They seem to have an excellent set up.
Title: Re: We've got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: Dave on December 22, 2015, 04:06:55 PM
We should try and get some of Southamptons youth team trainers on board.They seem to have an excellent set up.

They were mostly pinched by Fulham a couple of years ago I seem to remember.
Title: Re: We've got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: Dave on December 22, 2015, 04:25:31 PM
i don't think there is any right or wrong way to run a youth system & whilst our end game is always to get players through to be 1st team regulars it is also about getting as many of the lads to be in a position to have a career at a level of football & supporting those that don't.  Have we succeeded in either of those

Of the latter I reckon we must be up there with the best of them. Even when you consider random types like Bobby Olejnik and Zoltan Steiber forged a pretty solid professional career.

There must be a good three dozen of so former Villa youth teamers playing league football at the moment, I reckon there won't be many teams that have more.
Title: Re: We've got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: Clampy on December 22, 2015, 06:55:03 PM
case in point is Lewis Kinsella, left back where we have been struggling, the lad is 21 - if he ain't good enough now then get rid rid.

Get rid of a young player just because he hasn't had a crack in a team that's low on confidence and stranded at the bottom?
Title: Re: We've got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: oswald funkletrumpet on December 22, 2015, 07:38:52 PM
case in point is Lewis Kinsella, left back where we have been struggling, the lad is 21 - if he ain't good enough now then get rid rid.

Get rid of a young player just because he hasn't had a crack in a team that's low on confidence and stranded at the bottom?

case in point

if you are good enough you are old enough, did we say to gary shaw you cant play yet because youre too young?

we shoehorn bacuna in at left back but have a 21 year old left back in the reserves/u21s so why aint he playing? if he's not ready he should be on loan and if he's not good enough get rid.

it really is that simple.

if he has played for the under 21's for two years and cant get in the first team whem we have had the shittest start to a season in our history when we dont have a recognised left back then he has no future here
Title: Re: We've got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: Clampy on December 22, 2015, 07:54:07 PM
case in point is Lewis Kinsella, left back where we have been struggling, the lad is 21 - if he ain't good enough now then get rid rid.

Get rid of a young player just because he hasn't had a crack in a team that's low on confidence and stranded at the bottom?

case in point

if you are good enough you are old enough, did we say to gary shaw you cant play yet because youre too young?

we shoehorn bacuna in at left back but have a 21 year old left back in the reserves/u21s so why aint he playing? if he's not ready he should be on loan and if he's not good enough get rid.

it really is that simple.

if he has played for the under 21's for two years and cant get in the first team whem we have had the shittest start to a season in our history when we dont have a recognised left back then he has no future here

You think we should play him, but you also suggest he might not be good enough so get rid of him? Not sure I follow your logic. He's 20, he's got plenty of time.
Title: Re: We've got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: oswald funkletrumpet on December 22, 2015, 08:07:38 PM
he is 21 and has played for the under 21's for what two seasons? so playing for the u21's hasnt helped to prepare him for the first team

garde doesnt rate him as he would rather play bacuna who isnt a left back ahead of him

so playing for the under 21's is doing nothing for his development as he isnt deemed good enough for a team rock bottom of the league. when will he be ready then? 22? 23? 24?

he isnt progressing in the u21's so how else is he going to improve?

Title: Re: We've got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: Clampy on December 22, 2015, 08:16:52 PM
he is 21 and has played for the under 21's for what two seasons? so playing for the u21's hasnt helped to prepare him for the first team

garde doesnt rate him as he would rather play bacuna who isnt a left back ahead of him

so playing for the under 21's is doing nothing for his development as he isnt deemed good enough for a team rock bottom of the league. when will he be ready then? 22? 23? 24?

he isnt progressing in the u21's so how else is he going to improve?



He's already been out on loan and i'm sure at some point he will again. I think playing Bacuna there is the right thing to do for now given the position we're in. If we were mid-table, then i'd agree with you. He'll get his chance at some point and if he doesn't, then maybe he will move on.
Title: Re: We've got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: Salsa Party Animal on December 23, 2015, 12:49:31 AM
facilities is nothing if you don't have personnel to use it properly.
Title: Re: We've got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: SheffieldVillain on December 23, 2015, 02:44:40 AM
We should try and get some of Southamptons youth team trainers on board.They seem to have an excellent set up.

They're a very good example of having continuity in running the football side of the club - Les Reed as Head of Football Development since 2010 has headed up the youth set-up, scouting, sports science etc as well as being on the board. Then whatever happens with coaches/managers coming or going that structure stays in place. I guess (hope) that's what we're hoping to achieve by having Almstadt in a similar position.
Title: Re: We've got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 23, 2015, 02:41:16 PM
I think writing a player off at 20 or 21, given what Jamie Vardy has achieved this season would be a bit foolish. At 20/21 he was playing non-league football.
Title: Re: We've got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: oswald funkletrumpet on December 23, 2015, 02:58:30 PM
I think writing a player off at 20 or 21, given what Jamie Vardy has achieved this season would be a bit foolish. At 20/21 he was playing non-league football.

Totally different

Vardy was plying his trade in the lower leagues and hadn't been spotted

Kinsella for example has played for our U21's for 2 seasons and isn't deemed good enough to make the step up for the team that is stinking the division out.

Hopefully Garde will shift him out on loan at the same time he gets rid of some of the deadwood in January
Title: Re: We've got one of the best training facilities in the world...
Post by: mike on December 23, 2015, 07:15:46 PM
facilities is nothing if you don't have personnel to use it properly.
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