Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: stuart r on December 02, 2015, 11:38:23 AM

Title: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: stuart r on December 02, 2015, 11:38:23 AM
The usual rubbish... Here is the bit you'll probably be scrolling through for:

"We start in England’s second city, and the pretty intense brouhaha between the generally more blue collar Birmingham City and Aston Villa, who draw some of their support from well to do areas of the city such as Sutton Coldfield. Villa, the bigger club (sorry Blues), have registered more wins in the Second City derby. But on the other hand, Birmingham have a few trophies to show for it. They beat Villa in the final of the 1963 League Cup to win their first ever major trophy, Ken Leek their two-goal hero in a 3-1 aggregate win over two legs. Then in December 2010, Nikola Zigic scored late at St Andrews to beat Villa in the League Cup quarter finals; they went on to win their second major trophy against Arsenal in the 2011 final."

And here's the full thing: http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/nov/27/a-brief-guide-to-the-complex-rivalries-of-midlands-football
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: OzVilla on December 02, 2015, 11:43:59 AM
That is just utter, embarresing, garbage. Written by the same person that wrote the "Bolton fan letter" no doubt.  How does this shit even get into print?
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: itbrvilla on December 02, 2015, 11:52:09 AM
The class thing is utter horse shit.
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: Dave on December 02, 2015, 11:57:56 AM
That is just utter, embarresing, garbage. Written by the same person that wrote the "Bolton fan letter" no doubt.  How does this shit even get into print?

It's not really.

Quote
[Villa and West Brom] contested the 1887, 1892 and 1895 FA Cup finals. West Brom were hot favourites for the first, but were defeated 2-0, losing the place completely after Dennis Hodgetts scored an unchallenged opener from an offside position. Having expected the referee to stop play before Hodgetts netted, or at least rule the goal out, the Baggies threw a three-minute tantrum. The referee didn’t budge. They never budge.

Five years later it was Villa’s turn as hot favourites. Sure enough, the result again went the other way, West Brom battering their Midlands rivals 3-0. John Reynolds was man of the match, and was absurdly accused by his own board of only putting in a shift at the big events, in the hope of getting a transfer. Reynolds, understandably piqued, left in high dudgeon. No guesses who he signed for: yep, Villa. Also plumping for the “bugger this” option was Villa keeper Jimmy Warner, who left England for good after being accused of throwing the Cup final on purpose, having bet heavily on West Brom.

Another three years on, and the 1895 final was decided in the first minute, the ball pinballing around the Albion area and clanking off a surprised John Devey. Reynolds was in the Villa winning side, a fact presumably noted by the Baggies board. Villa then proudly put the FA Cup on display in the window of local cobbler William Shillock, only for it to be stolen and never seen again, melted down for coins.

I don't think you'll see articles talking about Villa's FA Cup finals of the late 1800s on the websites of many other newspapers.
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: Richard E on December 02, 2015, 12:01:28 PM
An even briefer guide:-

Villa are ace.

Albion are garbage.
Blose are garbage.
Wolves are garbage.
Every other Midlands team is garbage.

Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: joe_c on December 02, 2015, 12:01:44 PM
The class thing is utter horse shit.

He only said "blue collar" because he couldn't spell Lumpenproletariat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumpenproletariat).
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: castlefields_villan on December 02, 2015, 12:22:36 PM
The usual rubbish... Here is the bit you'll probably be scrolling through for:

"We start in England’s second city, and the pretty intense brouhaha between the generally more blue collar Birmingham City and Aston Villa, who draw some of their support from well to do areas of the city such as Sutton Coldfield. Villa, the bigger club (sorry Blues), have registered more wins in the Second City derby. But on the other hand, Birmingham have a few trophies to show for it. They beat Villa in the final of the 1963 League Cup to win their first ever major trophy, Ken Leek their two-goal hero in a 3-1 aggregate win over two legs. Then in December 2010, Nikola Zigic scored late at St Andrews to beat Villa in the League Cup quarter finals; they went on to win their second major trophy against Arsenal in the 2011 final."

And here's the full thing: http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/nov/27/a-brief-guide-to-the-complex-rivalries-of-midlands-football

Did they win a trophy for beating us in the quarter final 5 years ago then ??
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: Ads on December 02, 2015, 12:25:22 PM
How can there be a rivalry when there's only one club in the Midlands?
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 02, 2015, 12:28:23 PM
They missed out this bit.

Villa fans: Spend their lives obsessed with Villa.
SHA: Spend their lives obsessed with Villa.
Bitters: Spend their lives obsessed with Villa.
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: Malandro on December 02, 2015, 12:30:00 PM

Every other Midlands team is garbage.



What about Walsall?
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: AVH87 on December 02, 2015, 12:42:11 PM
'The behemoth, whether rival fans like it or not, and regardless of how they’re doing right now, is Aston Villa' - true.

'Birmingham have a few trophies to show for it' 'Nikola Zigic scored late at St Andrews to beat Villa in the League Cup quarter finals; they went on to win their second major trophy' - If they are going to mention Blues beating us on the way to winning the LC though, surely they should mention us beating Blues on the way to winning the LC in the 90s.

'Generally more blue collar Birmingham City' - Have to dispute this, I'd replace blue collar with jobless fans, if they all work so hard, where are they when it comes to spending their wages on matches on a Saturday afternoon?
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: castlefields_villan on December 02, 2015, 12:48:19 PM
'The behemoth, whether rival fans like it or not, and regardless of how they’re doing right now, is Aston Villa' - true.

'Birmingham have a few trophies to show for it' 'Nikola Zigic scored late at St Andrews to beat Villa in the League Cup quarter finals; they went on to win their second major trophy' - If they are going to mention Blues beating us on the way to winning the LC though, surely they should mention us beating Blues on the way to winning the LC in the 90s.

'Generally more blue collar Birmingham City' - Have to dispute this, I'd replace blue collar with jobless fans, if they all work so hard, where are they when it comes to spending their wages on matches on a Saturday afternoon?

Oh yes - the two 1-0 wins home and away - thanks for reminding me - I'd actually forgotten about that.
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: Ad@m on December 02, 2015, 01:02:47 PM
'Generally more blue collar Birmingham City' - Have to dispute this, I'd replace blue collar with jobless fans, if they all work so hard, where are they when it comes to spending their wages on matches on a Saturday afternoon?

Working shifts, aren't they!!
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 02, 2015, 02:34:48 PM
It seems a very longwinded way of saying "Everybody hates Villa".
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: castlefields_villan on December 02, 2015, 02:49:04 PM
That's only everybody in the west midlands though isn't it Dave ?

I've known and still do know a lot of big club fans - Man United / Citeh / Liverpool / Everton etc.. who, when we're not actually playing them acknowledge us as a club they respect.
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: nigel on December 02, 2015, 03:57:25 PM
It seems a very longwinded way of saying "Everybody hates Villa".

The one bit they got right  :)
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: levico on December 02, 2015, 04:13:22 PM
Even Villa fans hate the current Villa.
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: Ads on December 02, 2015, 04:17:23 PM
It seems a very longwinded way of saying "Everybody hates Villa".

Does anybody else have a warm and fuzzy feeling their stomach knowing that is true?
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 02, 2015, 04:23:00 PM
Even Villa fans hate the current Villa.

Speak for yourself.
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: Dr Butler on December 02, 2015, 04:27:51 PM
Even Villa fans hate the current Villa.

someone on here and a lot wiser than I once said...

"I love you Villa, but at this moment I just don't like you"

UTV
The Doc
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: Hillbilly on December 02, 2015, 11:10:15 PM
My benchmark when I started reading was if it picked the Cov-Leicester hatred. It failed.
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: tomd2103 on December 02, 2015, 11:26:17 PM
It certainly has a nose tinted angle.  Includes the old nose myth of Villa fans coming from more well to do areas, which is absolute rubbish.  Yes our fan base stretches right across the West Midlands and beyond (a lot of that has to do with previous generations moving out of certain areas of Birmingham) but there are still big numbers in places like Great Barr, Kingstanding and Erdington.
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: russon on December 03, 2015, 08:20:21 AM
The claim that Villa & Coventry don't get on is only 50% correct in that they don't like us but we couldn't give two hoots about them.

And someone needs to tell him it was Staunton not Mellberg (not that this makes the memory any more palatable).
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: Jimbo on December 03, 2015, 08:51:17 AM
It certainly has a nose tinted angle.  Includes the old nose myth of Villa fans coming from more well to do areas, which is absolute rubbish.  Yes our fan base stretches right across the West Midlands and beyond (a lot of that has to do with previous generations moving out of certain areas of Birmingham) but there are still big numbers in places like Great Barr, Kingstanding and Erdington.

They need something to cling onto in the face of their many inadequacies.

1) Da bloos are proppa werkin klass Brummiz.
2) Da bloos are da ones wiv da pashun.
3) Da vile all live in cassuls in Wussta an Lishfeeuld.

To which, we may counter:

1) Then why do you live in Solihull?
2) Then how come there are only about 15,000 knuckledraggers that can be bothered to attend their shithole of a ground?
3) Given that there are no Villa fans in a city of over 1million people, go to 2).
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: Dave on December 03, 2015, 09:06:58 AM
And someone needs to tell him it was Staunton not Mellberg (not that this makes the memory any more palatable).

It was definitely Mellberg.
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: joe_c on December 03, 2015, 10:23:29 AM
And someone needs to tell him it was Staunton not Mellberg (not that this makes the memory any more palatable).

It was definitely Mellberg.

Olof not Olaf though.
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: castlefields_villan on December 03, 2015, 02:56:42 PM
It certainly has a nose tinted angle.  Includes the old nose myth of Villa fans coming from more well to do areas, which is absolute rubbish.  Yes our fan base stretches right across the West Midlands and beyond (a lot of that has to do with previous generations moving out of certain areas of Birmingham) but there are still big numbers in places like Great Barr, Kingstanding and Erdington.

I grew up in Great Barr (by the Post House) and my brother still lives not far from the Scott Arms - Birmingham Road side - whenever I go there to see him, I only see Villa tops.
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: russon on December 03, 2015, 04:49:12 PM
And someone needs to tell him it was Staunton not Mellberg (not that this makes the memory any more palatable).

It was definitely Mellberg.
Blimey I never knew! Have never brought myself to watch it again. You'll be telling me Father Christmas doesn't exist next.
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: West Derby Villan on December 03, 2015, 06:55:08 PM
I also grew up in Great Barr and it was divided between Villa and Albion with the odd delusional nose
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: Duncan Shaw on December 03, 2015, 07:21:55 PM
And someone needs to tell him it was Staunton not Mellberg (not that this makes the memory any more palatable).

It was definitely Mellberg.
Blimey I never knew! Have never brought myself to watch it again. You'll be telling me Father Christmas doesn't exist next.
Still boils my piss that Encklman didn't just calmly pick the ball out of the net and throw it towards the corner.  Just shows the value of players actually knowing the rules, had he done that and shouted corner, the ref would have realised the error.  Still, made them happy for a couple of years.  This will be the best season since then for them, if we go down.
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: curiousorange on December 03, 2015, 08:16:30 PM
And someone needs to tell him it was Staunton not Mellberg (not that this makes the memory any more palatable).

It was definitely Mellberg.
Blimey I never knew! Have never brought myself to watch it again. You'll be telling me Father Christmas doesn't exist next.
Still boils my piss that Encklman didn't just calmly pick the ball out of the net and throw it towards the corner.  Just shows the value of players actually knowing the rules, had he done that and shouted corner, the ref would have
realised the error.  Still, made them happy for a couple of years.  This will be the best season since then for them, if we go down.

I always understood it to have stood because it brushed the bottom of Enckleman's boot on the way across the line; if it had been chucked in by Mellberg without a touch it wouldn't have counted.
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: Meanwood Villa on December 03, 2015, 10:26:10 PM
And someone needs to tell him it was Staunton not Mellberg (not that this makes the memory any more palatable).

It was definitely Mellberg.
Blimey I never knew! Have never brought myself to watch it again. You'll be telling me Father Christmas doesn't exist next.
Still boils my piss that Encklman didn't just calmly pick the ball out of the net and throw it towards the corner.  Just shows the value of players actually knowing the rules, had he done that and shouted corner, the ref would have
realised the error.  Still, made them happy for a couple of years.  This will be the best season since then for them, if we go down.

I always understood it to have stood because it brushed the bottom of Enckleman's boot on the way across the line; if it had been chucked in by Mellberg without a touch it wouldn't have counted.

That may be the case but the ref was 50 yards away with his back turned so how could he know?
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: joe_c on December 04, 2015, 01:10:13 AM
And someone needs to tell him it was Staunton not Mellberg (not that this makes the memory any more palatable).

It was definitely Mellberg.
Blimey I never knew! Have never brought myself to watch it again. You'll be telling me Father Christmas doesn't exist next.
Still boils my piss that Encklman didn't just calmly pick the ball out of the net and throw it towards the corner.  Just shows the value of players actually knowing the rules, had he done that and shouted corner, the ref would have
realised the error.  Still, made them happy for a couple of years.  This will be the best season since then for them, if we go down.

I always understood it to have stood because it brushed the bottom of Enckleman's boot on the way across the line; if it had been chucked in by Mellberg without a touch it wouldn't have counted.

That may be the case but the ref was 50 yards away with his back turned so how could he know?

Because it was David Sodding Elleray.
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on December 04, 2015, 01:54:29 AM
And someone needs to tell him it was Staunton not Mellberg (not that this makes the memory any more palatable).

It was definitely Mellberg.
Blimey I never knew! Have never brought myself to watch it again. You'll be telling me Father Christmas doesn't exist next.
Still boils my piss that Encklman didn't just calmly pick the ball out of the net and throw it towards the corner.  Just shows the value of players actually knowing the rules, had he done that and shouted corner, the ref would have
realised the error.  Still, made them happy for a couple of years.  This will be the best season since then for them, if we go down.

I always understood it to have stood because it brushed the bottom of Enckleman's boot on the way across the line; if it had been chucked in by Mellberg without a touch it wouldn't have counted.

That may be the case but the ref was 50 yards away with his back turned so how could he know?

Because it was David Sodding Elleray.

Even if he'd been looking in the right direction I don't know how Elleray could have been sure Enckelman made contact with the ball - as he should have been to award the goal. I haven't watched it in years, but I remember it was impossible to say from all the action replays that there was any contact. If there was it was so minimal as to be practically invisible. It's almost as if Elleray was an incompetent git who crumbled under pressure. To be fair, had he disallowed it he probably would have been assaulted on the pitch by one of their apes.
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: ktvillan on December 04, 2015, 12:50:02 PM
And someone needs to tell him it was Staunton not Mellberg (not that this makes the memory any more palatable).

It was definitely Mellberg.
Blimey I never knew! Have never brought myself to watch it again. You'll be telling me Father Christmas doesn't exist next.
Still boils my piss that Encklman didn't just calmly pick the ball out of the net and throw it towards the corner.  Just shows the value of players actually knowing the rules, had he done that and shouted corner, the ref would have
realised the error.  Still, made them happy for a couple of years.  This will be the best season since then for them, if we go down.

I always understood it to have stood because it brushed the bottom of Enckleman's boot on the way across the line; if it had been chucked in by Mellberg without a touch it wouldn't have counted.

That may be the case but the ref was 50 yards away with his back turned so how could he know?

Because it was David Sodding Elleray.

Still by far the biggest c*** ever to have been allowed to referee.
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: rob_bridge on December 04, 2015, 01:01:10 PM
They missed out this bit.

Villa fans: Spend their lives obsessed with Villa.
SHA: Spend their lives obsessed with Villa.
Bitters: Spend their lives obsessed with Villa.

That is the best summary.

All else is of little consqequence.
Title: Re: A brief guide to the complex rivalries of Midlands football
Post by: not3bad on December 04, 2015, 03:18:00 PM
An even briefer guide:-

Villa are ace.

Albion are garbage.
Blose are garbage.
Wolves are garbage.
Every other Midlands team is garbage.



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