Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: dave.woodhall on November 22, 2015, 11:31:41 PM
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http://thebirminghampress.com/2015/11/a-tale-of-two-city-clubs/
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Can't argue with any of the points made.
At the time, anybody who said Martinez had turned us down were castigated. He had not turned us down, he had just declined to be interviewed, or he was showing loyalty to their chairman, or he had to stay in and watch the box set of The Wire.
The fact that he turned us down should have set alarm bells ringing, but then, he did not turn us down. No need for alarm.
Somebody will soon write an article on all the signs which should have set alarm bells ringing and it will read like the script for The Titanic.
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The last line literally made me shudder.
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Maybe the reason why we are not at Everton's level now are due to some of the signings MON made. Has been discussed many times before but we needed to move forward and didn't. Lerner has fecked up, but he took over the club at a shite time and gave MON lots of money
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Can't argue with any of the points made.
At the time, anybody who said Martinez had turned us down were castigated. He had not turned us down, he had just declined to be interviewed, or he was showing loyalty to their chairman, or he had to stay in and watch the box set of The Wire.
The fact that he turned us down should have set alarm bells ringing, but then, he did not turn us down. No need for alarm.
Somebody will soon write an article on all the signs which should have set alarm bells ringing and it will read like the script for The Titanic.
so did martinez turn us down or not
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Can't argue with any of the points made.
At the time, anybody who said Martinez had turned us down were castigated. He had not turned us down, he had just declined to be interviewed, or he was showing loyalty to their chairman, or he had to stay in and watch the box set of The Wire.
The fact that he turned us down should have set alarm bells ringing, but then, he did not turn us down. No need for alarm.
Somebody will soon write an article on all the signs which should have set alarm bells ringing and it will read like the script for The Titanic.
so did martinez turn us down or not
Not. Villa wouldn't meet the buyout clause in his contact with wigan.
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Maybe the reason why we are not at Everton's level now are due to some of the signings MON made. Has been discussed many times before but we needed to move forward and didn't. Lerner has fecked up, but he took over the club at a shite time and gave MON lots of money
The team MON left finished 6th, got to a league cup final and fa cup semi. It also went on to finish 9th, the following season albeit with one big player missing from the year before, but with a £24m striker added. He left at a bad time, spent money he was given perhaps not the best, but to say it's down to him is more than a bit daft considering the glaring cock ups those behind the manager of the team since then.
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Can't argue with any of the points made.
At the time, anybody who said Martinez had turned us down were castigated. He had not turned us down, he had just declined to be interviewed, or he was showing loyalty to their chairman, or he had to stay in and watch the box set of The Wire.
The fact that he turned us down should have set alarm bells ringing, but then, he did not turn us down. No need for alarm.
Somebody will soon write an article on all the signs which should have set alarm bells ringing and it will read like the script for The Titanic.
so did martinez turn us down or not
Not. Villa wouldn't meet the buyout clause in his contact with wigan.
Do you have any proof of this, as I've not seen it anywhere else.
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This is what happened.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2002091/Roberto-Martinez-turns-Aston-Villa.html
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Can't argue with any of the points made.
At the time, anybody who said Martinez had turned us down were castigated. He had not turned us down, he had just declined to be interviewed, or he was showing loyalty to their chairman, or he had to stay in and watch the box set of The Wire.
The fact that he turned us down should have set alarm bells ringing, but then, he did not turn us down. No need for alarm.
Somebody will soon write an article on all the signs which should have set alarm bells ringing and it will read like the script for The Titanic.
so did martinez turn us down or not
he did by not wanting to talk to us which for me was worse than him being interviewed and then refusing the job.
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He showed a tremendous loyalty to Wigan right up until the point they were relegated.
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Maybe the reason why we are not at Everton's level now are due to some of the signings MON made. Has been discussed many times before but we needed to move forward and didn't. Lerner has fecked up, but he took over the club at a shite time and gave MON lots of money
The team MON left finished 6th, got to a league cup final and fa cup semi. It also went on to finish 9th, the following season albeit with one big player missing from the year before, but with a £24m striker added. He left at a bad time, spent money he was given perhaps not the best, but to say it's down to him is more than a bit daft considering the glaring cock ups those behind the manager of the team since then.
He deserves plenty of stick but one thing that seems to get overlooked is the amount of money that was recouped.
The man to blame is the owner. It was his investment, his final say. When he decided he'd had enough he ripped the guts out of the squad.
Its been one fuck up after another. Madcap ideas and no leadership.
Blame the managers and feel resentment about the fans.
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Can't argue with any of the points made.
At the time, anybody who said Martinez had turned us down were castigated. He had not turned us down, he had just declined to be interviewed, or he was showing loyalty to their chairman, or he had to stay in and watch the box set of The Wire.
The fact that he turned us down should have set alarm bells ringing, but then, he did not turn us down. No need for alarm.
Somebody will soon write an article on all the signs which should have set alarm bells ringing and it will read like the script for The Titanic.
so did martinez turn us down or not
he did by not wanting to talk to us which for me was worse than him being interviewed and then refusing the job.
Decent managers are put off by the fact Lerner runs us on a relative shoestring. They take one look at the budget and reply with a polite "thanks but no thanks". That's the story of the last 5 years and that's the sole reason for our decline, in my opinion
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Can't argue with any points made in that Article.
I Like Martinez but could he have saved us?
Dave rightly makes the comparison between ourselves and Everton, but we've slipped so far behind in recent seasons that I find myself comparing us to Wigan.
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Maybe the reason why we are not at Everton's level now are due to some of the signings MON made. Has been discussed many times before but we needed to move forward and didn't. Lerner has fecked up, but he took over the club at a shite time and gave MON lots of money
The team MON left finished 6th, got to a league cup final and fa cup semi. It also went on to finish 9th, the following season albeit with one big player missing from the year before, but with a £24m striker added. He left at a bad time, spent money he was given perhaps not the best, but to say it's down to him is more than a bit daft considering the glaring cock ups those behind the manager of the team since then.
He deserves plenty of stick but one thing that seems to get overlooked is the amount of money that was recouped.
The man to blame is the owner. It was his investment, his final say. When he decided he'd had enough he ripped the guts out of the squad.
Its been one fuck up after another. Madcap ideas and no leadership.
Blame the managers and feel resentment about the fans.
He didn't rip the guts or anything like - a couple of players wanted to leave and we got a daft offer for a third. We got good money for them all; how it was spent was the problem.
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Can't argue with any of the points made.
At the time, anybody who said Martinez had turned us down were castigated. He had not turned us down, he had just declined to be interviewed, or he was showing loyalty to their chairman, or he had to stay in and watch the box set of The Wire.
The fact that he turned us down should have set alarm bells ringing, but then, he did not turn us down. No need for alarm.
Somebody will soon write an article on all the signs which should have set alarm bells ringing and it will read like the script for The Titanic.
so did martinez turn us down or not
he did by not wanting to talk to us which for me was worse than him being interviewed and then refusing the job.
Decent managers are put off by the fact Lerner runs us on a relative shoestring. They take one look at the budget and reply with a polite "thanks but no thanks". That's the story of the last 5 years and that's the sole reason for our decline, in my opinion
Agree with that and to think we could have had benitez
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Those words could regrettably apply to the money we got for Delph and Benteke. Hope not but it is becoming a distinct possibility.
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Good read Dave I also think the same way about the Watford game.
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Good read Dave I also think the same way about the Watford game.
Boom! Darren nails it.
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Does he ever not nail it?
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Yes Excellent article Dave I could not agree more. Everton are a great Barometer of where we were and should be. Before the game on Saturday (and even more so after), it occurred to me that I do not think Everton would have swapped a single Villa Player in their 11 as opposed to one of their own. It shows the scale of our demise in such a short space of time.
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We'll never know how Martinez would have done with us but I remain certain he'd have been preferable to McLeish.
How they lurched from chasing a manager like Martinez to landing on McLeish will forever remain one of the great mysteries of our time.
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Darren's already said most of what I wanted to say.
But just one further point: the tone reflects very accurately how many of us feel. We are at the tipping point. No win against Watford and most of us will be resigned to going down.
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The legend has it that Randy was so pissed off by the unsuccessful pursuit of Martinez he jumped in his plane, flew to Corsica and did the deal personally with TSM1. Don't know how true it is.
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We'll never know how Martinez would have done with us but I remain certain he'd have been preferable to McLeish.
How they lurched from chasing a manager like Martinez to landing on McLeish will forever remain one of the great mysteries of our time.
At the time Mcleish had not long won the Carling cup final against Arsenal ,,,,,whereas at the time Martinez had won nothing
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We'll never know how Martinez would have done with us but I remain certain he'd have been preferable to McLeish.
How they lurched from chasing a manager like Martinez to landing on McLeish will forever remain one of the great mysteries of our time.
They were ticking them off in alphabetical order, if McLeish had said no Gary Megson was next.
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Potentially we are a much bigger Club than Everton - we have one thing in common both clubs have a fickle fan base. We really should be punching at a much higher rate given the fact that we are the biggest team in the 2nd biggest British City. I have always likened Everton to the unwashed, you don't seem to find a lot of youngsters supporting either team, both live in the shadow of their more successful neighbour, both teams play in a dump, although Goodison was once a better than average stadium.
True both clubs have financial constraints just that Everton manage theirs a hell of a lot better. Just wait till the likes of Coleman, Stones, Lukaku have their heads turned, it will be like a swimmer struggling to turn in deep water.
We are in proper trouble no doubt, but it is a unique issue postmarked to B6 - don't really go alone with comparisons to other clubs.
As for other managers Garde would not have been my first choice neither was Sherwood but that's the hand we have been dealt lets just get on with it. We could have Bertie Mee, Bill Shankly, Busby Mercer when he was successful we would struggle with nil investment.
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Can't argue with any of the points made.
At the time, anybody who said Martinez had turned us down were castigated. He had not turned us down, he had just declined to be interviewed, or he was showing loyalty to their chairman, or he had to stay in and watch the box set of The Wire.
The fact that he turned us down should have set alarm bells ringing, but then, he did not turn us down. No need for alarm.
Somebody will soon write an article on all the signs which should have set alarm bells ringing and it will read like the script for The Titanic.
so did martinez turn us down or not
he did by not wanting to talk to us which for me was worse than him being interviewed and then refusing the job.
Decent managers are put off by the fact Lerner runs us on a relative shoestring. They take one look at the budget and reply with a polite "thanks but no thanks". That's the story of the last 5 years and that's the sole reason for our decline, in my opinion
Agree with that and to think we could have had benitez
Every cloud and all that.
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Can't argue with any of the points made.
At the time, anybody who said Martinez had turned us down were castigated. He had not turned us down, he had just declined to be interviewed, or he was showing loyalty to their chairman, or he had to stay in and watch the box set of The Wire.
The fact that he turned us down should have set alarm bells ringing, but then, he did not turn us down. No need for alarm.
Somebody will soon write an article on all the signs which should have set alarm bells ringing and it will read like the script for The Titanic.
so did martinez turn us down or not
he did by not wanting to talk to us which for me was worse than him being interviewed and then refusing the job.
Decent managers are put off by the fact Lerner runs us on a relative shoestring. They take one look at the budget and reply with a polite "thanks but no thanks". That's the story of the last 5 years and that's the sole reason for our decline, in my opinion
Agree with that and to think we could have had benitez
Every cloud and all that.
Even Uri Gela would have a problem getting us out of this mess.
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We'll never know how Martinez would have done with us but I remain certain he'd have been preferable to McLeish.
How they lurched from chasing a manager like Martinez to landing on McLeish will forever remain one of the great mysteries of our time.
We'd proably still have been left lumbered with N'Zogbia had Martinez come and brought him too. *Clutching at hindsight-straws*
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Potentially we are a much bigger Club than Everton - we have one thing in common both clubs have a fickle fan base. We really should be punching at a much higher rate given the fact that we are the biggest team in the 2nd biggest British City. I have always likened Everton to the unwashed, you don't seem to find a lot of youngsters supporting either team, both live in the shadow of their more successful neighbour, both teams play in a dump, although Goodison was once a better than average stadium.
True both clubs have financial constraints just that Everton manage theirs a hell of a lot better. Just wait till the likes of Coleman, Stones, Lukaku have their heads turned, it will be like a swimmer struggling to turn in deep water.
We are in proper trouble no doubt, but it is a unique issue postmarked to B6 - don't really go alone with comparisons to other clubs.
As for other managers Garde would not have been my first choice neither was Sherwood but that's the hand we have been dealt lets just get on with it. We could have Bertie Mee, Bill Shankly, Busby Mercer when he was successful we would struggle with nil investment.
cant see any comparison between everton and blues myself. I always see more of their fans in Liverpool when visiting. Much bigger crowds in a poor city. I actually like their ground as well. Prefer a trip there than an field
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Out of interest, what is the second most played top flight fixture? Is there a possibility us v everton will be overtaken in the next year or so if the unthinkable happens?
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Out of interest, what is the second most played top flight fixture? Is there a possibility us v everton will be overtaken in the next year or so if the unthinkable happens?
Second most is Everton vs Liverpool.
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Very good article, Dave, and all depressingly true
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Everton are nothing like small heath. 9 titles, 5 FA Cups and CWC. Only once since the end of WWI have they averaged less than 20K.
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Really can't see us beating Watford, that's how low expectations are now. A complete disaster under Mr Lerner. I can Villa doing a Wolves and dropping straight through to League one. Club is bereft of any heart or passion.
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Really can't see us beating Watford, that's how low expectations are now. A complete disaster under Mr Lerner. I can Villa doing a Wolves and dropping straight through to League one. Club is bereft of any heart or passion.
Little ray of sunshine
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Really can't see us beating Watford, that's how low expectations are now. A complete disaster under Mr Lerner. I can Villa doing a Wolves and dropping straight through to League one. Club is bereft of any heart or passion.
That's nothing, I can see us dropping out of the league altogether, filing for bankruptcy and Villa Park being sold for landfill.
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Really can't see us beating Watford, that's how low expectations are now. A complete disaster under Mr Lerner. I can Villa doing a Wolves and dropping straight through to League one. Club is bereft of any heart or passion.
That's nothing, I can see us dropping out of the league altogether, filing for bankruptcy and Villa Park being sold for landfill.
Pfft.
I think our descent will be so rapid it will warp space and time itself, cause a tear in the space time continuum, and propel us into a parrallel universe where Birmingham City are the most decorated team in the land.
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Really can't see us beating Watford, that's how low expectations are now. A complete disaster under Mr Lerner. I can Villa doing a Wolves and dropping straight through to League one. Club is bereft of any heart or passion.
That's nothing, I can see us dropping out of the league altogether, filing for bankruptcy and Villa Park being sold for landfill.
Pfft.
I think our descent will be so rapid it will warp space and time itself, cause a tear in the space time continuum, and propel us into a parrallel universe where Birmingham City are the most decorated team in the land.
I was with you all the way until you came up with that ridiculous stuff about Birmingham City,
I mean that's just far fetched
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Really can't see us beating Watford, that's how low expectations are now. A complete disaster under Mr Lerner. I can Villa doing a Wolves and dropping straight through to League one. Club is bereft of any heart or passion.
That's nothing, I can see us dropping out of the league altogether, filing for bankruptcy and Villa Park being sold for landfill.
Rubbish,we will file for bankruptcy,get bought by Honk Kong Hairdresser, be merged with the filth and Villa Park will be sold to ISIS