Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: villa `cross the mersey on November 22, 2015, 11:19:06 AM
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I no longer recognise the game ........
Yesterday was my first game of the season .... in fact, it was the first football game I have watched live, or otherwise since the cup final.
I have various contacts at Everton and I was able to get two tickets for the Upper Gwladys Stand – I have been travelling to this same venue for well over 40 years and have had some really great times in and around this now crumbling ground.
This was our 141st birthday and I had an air of optimism about me after a decent result against Man City – Jnr and I parked up and started walking to the ground – it was just turned 1pm and the place was deserted – I checked my ticket to see if I had misread the kick off time. We walked past the various pubs, chippy`s etc on County Road – they too were very quiet. We decided to walk around the stadium and look out for some of the familiar faces that travel with the Villa ... again very quiet.
It was a bit nippy so we went into the ground for a bite to eat and in search of “atmosphere”. All we found was more “Victorian surroundings” and poor seats and view of the pitch. Unusually for me I decided to remain quiet and certainly not crack on that I was a Villa fan. We watched the players warm up, witnessed the playing of the French National anthem and looked forward to a spirited display from the Villa.
The atmosphere was flat from the start and the Goodison crowd were quieter than normal .... they did not even given a rendition of their one and only song (Everton, Everton, Everton etc etc etc until the 33 rd minute !!). I could not believe how disinterested both sets of players looked ..... the guys sitting next to me commented on how deep Villa were sitting. Not surprisingly the inevitable happened and we were 1-0 down .... you only had to look at the players to realise it was game over .... heads were down, even at that early stage. A decent Everton side started to go through our midfield and defence like a knife through butter. Everton took their foot off the gas second half which saved us from a real caning.
I have witnessed some great and not so great performances at this ground but I have to say that yesterday was a complete capitulation. I really did not see any passion from most of the squad - I have been following this club for 5 decades and saw us languishing in the lower reaches of the old first and second divisions – we had some really poor squads but at least they showed some sprit – they just lacked the quality. I fear this squad have been thrown together and fail to understand just how vital it is we remain in the league. The club has no leader, on or off the pitch and faces an uncertain future if relegated ......
But what worried me yesterday was that for the first time the result didn`t hurt like it used too.... Once the goals started going in I was numbed to the pain. People around me sussed that I was a Villa fan and were almost sympathetic – there were comments about how sad it was to see a club like the Villa struggling. Lets face it Villa and Everton are comparable clubs in size, fan base and history. It can’t be right that clubs like us can no longer even dream about mounting a title challenge without the financial backing from mega rich owners.
The game has lost its soul and I am now very close to giving up attending.
Finally as a post script.....
I work in and around Everton and Anfield – just this week I visited a street where the houses were probably valued around £30K-£40K . Some players aged in their early 20`s drive up to the ground in cars valued at ten times that value whilst some even younger players could buy one such house a week !!!
That’s the type of inequality that is making me revalue views towards the game, or I am returning to my Socialist principles as I approach 60 !
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Getting to a stadium two hours before a game and expecting to see a mass of people and fellow villa fans was a bit odd. It was freezing and most fans were most likely still travelling or in the pub.
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OK Clampy, but what about his broader point?
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His broader point was that the game is not what it used to be but everyone knows that, a shame that it is.
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Just read this VCM and is very much in line with what I just posted on the post match thread. It was a eerily strange experience all round yesterday. WTF has happened to our game?
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My 18 year old daughter is always asking me what it was like in the 70's and 80's..I tell her some things are better now..I. e. Facilities and less trouble but somethings are worse..our form aside the atmosphere back then seemed more electric. I tell her that the cup game against the Albion was more like it used to be back in time. Perhaps I just remember the good bits ?
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Only thing I'm amazed about is VCTM says it's been going to Goodison for 40 years and yet is still amazed at how poor the view and facilities are.
I went last year and of course Goodison is a historic ground but the view or lack of it from the bottom tier is something else. When there's a corner down that side at the Gladwys again you can't see the corner taker at all.
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I think the reason some fans claim defeats don't hurt as much as they used to is down to the fact that we've come accustomed to losing most of our matches over the last 5 or so years.
Let's face it the fans have had a damn good kicking for years now and we're all becoming numb to it. It's bloody horrible.
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I couldnt sleep the other night about 4 a.m, stressing over things in my life , like we do.
I ended up watching the whole european cup final game which I attended with my grandfather and dad , all the players were being interviewed too.
Blimey, it made me cry , a bit of pride and sadness in the tears.
Times have changed in football and life and its horrible.
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The old adage things are not what they used to be is correct in my head.
Towards the end of last season when we had our Villa back it was like going back to the 70's football wise. Now we are looking at the mid 80's debarcle.
Looking at the fan base at Goodison quite a lot would have remembered the 70's but we were living in a bubble then. Ask a Chelsea or Tottenham fan about the late 70's and they would probably shoot your head off.
The one thing that has changed and we can do nothing about is that money does buy you success. In my era every team including Chelsea (wilkins), Tottenham (Ardilles) even QPR (Stan Bowles) had their superstar.
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Sounds like we are all roughly of the same vintage, and - yes - the game is totally different. It is compounded in our case by the last 5-6 years of unremitting shite. No wonder the VP atmosphere is so subdued ...
Fortress Villa; I don't think so!
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Being not of the required age, I would be intrigued to know any of the posters who were youngsters in the '70s and '80s remember if the "old-timers" of the time noticed a great difference then between the matchday / football experience of the '40s and '50s, for better or worse...
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Being not of the required age, I would be intrigued to know any of the posters who were youngsters in the '70s and '80s remember if the "old-timers" of the time noticed a great difference then between the matchday / football experience of the '40s and '50s, for better or worse...
The players were all bloody great jessies not like the old days what with their long hair and kissing each other after they scored.
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Being not of the required age, I would be intrigued to know any of the posters who were youngsters in the '70s and '80s remember if the "old-timers" of the time noticed a great difference then between the matchday / football experience of the '40s and '50s, for better or worse...
Difficult to gauge as there were no Internet forums or social media for us all to moan on in those days.
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Also not really comparing like for like. The team we had in the late 70s & early 80s was probably the best Villa side that my Dad, or even Grandad, could remember too!
Of course they had their favourite players and occasions from their own youth, but even the 57 cup final wouldn't really match up to The Villa I was lucky enough to be supporting in my teens.
So, they naturally wouldn't have been as nostalgic for the past as we might be now.
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Also not really comparing like for like. The team we had in the late 70s & early 80s was probably the best Villa side that my Dad, or even Grandad, could remember too!
Of course they had their favourite players and occasions from their own youth, but even the 57 cup final wouldn't really match up to The Villa I was lucky enough to be supporting in my teens.
So, they naturally wouldn't have been as nostalgic for the past as we might be now.
I bet they were.
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I do vaguely remember my Grandad talking about a player who used to play the piano in The Holte Pub or somewhere after the game and get so drunk he'd fall of the stool. So there was definitely the same sense that players had become disconnected than they had been 'in their day'.
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But what worried me yesterday was that for the first time the result didn't hurt like it used too....
Really? It stopped hurting a long time ago for me, losing/bad results has been a recurring theme for the last 5 and a half years, that's a long time.
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All this angsty stuff (and I am as bad as anyone) boils down to the fact that we have been awful for four or five years now.
It isn't the only cause but if we hadn't been laughably poor these last few years, it'd be much easier to shake off the gloom.
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On the whole I have become a lot less frustrated when we lose and probably numb to it. However standing in the pub yesterday listening to Sandwell fans laughing at us hurt..by Christ it fuckin hurt..so much so that I left and went home..it probably shouldn't have hurt that much but it did and the only positive I can draw from the pain of listening to those twas is that I still fuckin care...yes deep down I care a lot.
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All this angsty stuff (and I am as bad as anyone) boils down to the fact that we have been awful for four or five years now.
It isn't the only cause but if we hadn't been laughably poor these last few years, it'd be much easier to shake off the gloom.
The aim of football is to win matches , for 5 years we have been poor at doing this.Our recent form is one of constant losing it's no wonder we are all run down by it all.
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In older days players were footballers nowdays players are athletics who play football.
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Being not of the required age, I would be intrigued to know any of the posters who were youngsters in the '70s and '80s remember if the "old-timers" of the time noticed a great difference then between the matchday / football experience of the '40s and '50s, for better or worse...
The players were all bloody great jessies not like the old days what with their long hair and kissing each other after they scored.
Quite, there is an inevitable nostalgia as we move through the generations. It's obviously compounded by us being rubbish at the moment but people always miss their youth and by association the football. It's like listening to an oldies show on the radio and singing along to and knowing all the words to songs you hated when you were 17.
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"It were better in my day, I tell thee..."
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I do vaguely remember my Grandad talking about a player who used to play the piano in The Holte Pub or somewhere after the game and get so drunk he'd fall of the stool. So there was definitely the same sense that players had become disconnected than they had been 'in their day'.
That was probably Colin Gibson the winger in the early fifties.
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Problem is we have all got too used to losing, it stinks the club out and starts at the top. Lerner is not a winner and doesn't exude that aura, see Cleveland Browns. He is too 'nice' and that has without a doubt contributed to where we now find ourselves.
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Well I'm 61 on Boxing Day ( I know our record on this day is awful) and I know what we mean when. We say it doesn't hurt because we don't really know what winning feels like anymore.
I think it was the cup final that has killed us , travelling back from that utter humiliation brought home to me how far we have fallen as a club.
Compare that to the tears in my eyes from pride watching Chico Hamilton ,Bruce Rioch and co fight so bravely against Spurs in the league cup final in 1971 and even though we lost I couldn't have been any more proud.
Where do we get our pride / soul back ? Probably in the same way in a few years time when we are fighting to regain our status as a top flight club.
It does however still hurt otherwise e wouldn't be on here seeking solace with our brothers.
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wish i had gone ,,, it was nippy ,, so i wouldnt have walked round the ground or gone in early for something to eat ,
the pubs and chippys on county road sounded much more appealing
finally as a postscript
Robbie fowler is one of the UKs top property tycoons and one of the richest footballers ever
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I worry for the kids,our future fanbase.
as we get shitter and slip down the league,unless they have a family who wont let them support anybody else,
the temptation for them to follow a manc,scouse,london team may well be too strong to resist,
they may even end up following our unmentionable neighbours. the next 5 months are arguably the most
important in our clubs history
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Claret and blue blood...for all our differences of opinion we are still all brothers and sisters who follow the greatest football team on earth.
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But what worried me yesterday was that for the first time the result didn't hurt like it used too....
Really? It stopped hurting a long time ago for me, losing/bad results has been a reoccurring theme for the last 5 and a half years, that's a long time.
And me. Lovely post though Clive and I can buy into exactly what you are saying. Remember queuing outside the Holte for two hours before a game when Man Utd etc came to town? I used to love that so much. In my view, Lerner has ruined my club, an act for which he will never be forgiven. Set that within a wider ruining of the game which is not his fault and it's like a double whammy. I was out walking on Salisbury Plain yesterday with a friend and when I felt she wouldn't mind if I looked at the BBC website to see the score and we were already three down, I have to say it barely registered. Ten years ago, I would probably have been at Goodison and if not, it would have destroyed my weekend. Not any more, perhaps that's a good thing!
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As I believe Mr Chris Smith once said and paraphrasing. 'We appear to be suffering from an illness known as 'getting old.'
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Oh, the Third division, you know? Circa 1970? Broke the mould. Theory out the window. Free expression of football. Deadlydougable. Is that a word? It is now! You know? Far cry from small Alan Wrights in the park, jumpers for goalposts. Rush goalie. Two at the back, three in the middle, four up front, one's gone home for his tea. Beans on toast? Possibly, don't quote me on that. Marvellous.
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As I believe Mr Chris Smith once said and paraphrasing. 'We appear to be suffering from an illness known as 'getting old.'
I'm actually getting younger. There's nothing I can do, the government know.
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I've been going down since 1967 as a seven year old and yes the 70s early 80s was magical times but for me every defeat still hurts. But because it's been happening for so long it's not that we don't care i think we all do but there's no light at the end of the tunnel in fact I can't even see the tunnel anymore.
Those days when players would run through a brick wall for the club are long gone how many players at this level would do that now and care about the defeat for me maybe mark noble at West Ham but after that I'm struggling.
The line in the original post about the west brom cup game was what it used to be like was so true we used to sing every players name before kick off but now ????
Maybe all that died with a generation that was used to the good times in the 70s and early 80s.
But if anyone would of said to me coming out of Wembley with my grandad after the Spurs game when I was so proud to be a villa fan despite the defeat that in just over 10 years that club that made me so proud would be CHAMPIONS OF EUROPE and don't forget that after beating Barca in the super cup we actually ruled half the footballing world then there is always hope.
we don't need a Russian billionaire or an oil sheikh because money cannot buy our history or tradition or support.
So let's make the home game v Watford the first stepping stone back to where we should be.
Villa till I die
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Being not of the required age, I would be intrigued to know any of the posters who were youngsters in the '70s and '80s remember if the "old-timers" of the time noticed a great difference then between the matchday / football experience of the '40s and '50s, for better or worse...
In the late 60s and through the 70s I can well remember my grandad and uncles always telling me football's not the same as it used to be. they'd tell me how it used to be played by real men ("not these overpaid long haired players who looked and played like girls") and watched by hard-working men ("unlike all these long-haired layabouts and yobbos you get at games now").
My dad used to take me but even for him football never as good as the days of Stanley Matthews, George Cummings etc. once I was old enough to go on my own he stopped going and despite our glory years of the early 80s he lost a lot of interest - yet the last ten years or so he's got hooked again and talks and worries more about Villa than I ever do.
I still love football and the Villa as much as I used to even though there are many things about the modern game that really bug me -Ticket prices and treatment of fans being top of that list, although I don't think the game has ever looked after fans well.
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I agree with a lot of what VCM is saying, had the chance of a ticket yesterday but turned it down as cash was short & half expected that result,worst part was my 6year old lad went
with his evertonian grandad to the game told him to stay quiet if we scored should of known no fecking chance!Feel for him living up here following us. >:(
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The best period of my life supporting Villa was during the first SGT reign, I hardly missed a game home or away, I repeated this to a lesser degree under the BFR era. Even as late as that, the fans had a bond with the players and vice versa and that simply doesn't exist to the extent it did, token handclapping of sodden away support after yet another turgid performance doesn't even begin to come close. Having said all of that, I do think we wouldn't notice half of these soulless situations if there was a successful side on the pitch to look forward to watching every week.
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Football is great. It is relevant to the times in which we live. It is not some ossified exhibit in the Museum of Social Science. Villa are rubbish just now but it is only temporary. Football is great.
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Football has to have some redeeming feature. If the team is unremittingly shit, you'll keep going back for the atmosphere, the culture or a laugh with your mates.
But when the football's shit, the atmosphere is flat, fewer of your mates bother going, and it costs a small fortune - when what you're watching is 22 millionaires, who can't wait to get back in their nice, plush Lamborghinis, strolling around the pitch without giving a fuck, and actually being awful at their jobs - it's hard to find anything to like.
I suppose it's a mixture of loyalty and habit that keeps people hooked. Either way, I salute them.
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The old adage things are not what they used to be is correct in my head.
Towards the end of last season when we had our Villa back it was like going back to the 70's football wise. Now we are looking at the mid 80's debarcle.
Looking at the fan base at Goodison quite a lot would have remembered the 70's but we were living in a bubble then. Ask a Chelsea or Tottenham fan about the late 70's and they would probably shoot your head off.
The one thing that has changed and we can do nothing about is that money does buy you success. In my era every team including Chelsea (wilkins), Tottenham (Ardilles) even QPR (Stan Bowles) had their superstar.
if that's the case (and I completely agree with you) how do we explain fucking Leicester being top of the league?
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The old adage things are not what they used to be is correct in my head.
Towards the end of last season when we had our Villa back it was like going back to the 70's football wise. Now we are looking at the mid 80's debarcle.
Looking at the fan base at Goodison quite a lot would have remembered the 70's but we were living in a bubble then. Ask a Chelsea or Tottenham fan about the late 70's and they would probably shoot your head off.
The one thing that has changed and we can do nothing about is that money does buy you success. In my era every team including Chelsea (wilkins), Tottenham (Ardilles) even QPR (Stan Bowles) had their superstar.
if that's the case (and I completely agree with you) how do we explain fucking Leicester being top of the league?
and we was 2 nil up at their place a couple of months ago ,,,,and after the way everton and liverpool played yesterday ,,,,,i cant believe we beat them both about 6 months ago,,,,
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But what worried me yesterday was that for the first time the result didn't hurt like it used too....
Really? It stopped hurting a long time ago for me, losing/bad results has been a reoccurring theme for the last 5 and a half years, that's a long time.
Yep, I think a lot of us have become immune to it now. The Bradford debacle was the turning point for me. I still to this day can't believe we lost to a League Two side over two legs and apart from losing to non league opposition, nothing can be as bad as that.
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I gave up being a season ticket holder after O'Leary, I still went a number of games under McLeish but eventually it kicked the shit out of me. The stupid wages, irregular kick off times and young family meant I got my football fix watching non-league football at 3pm every Saturday. I watch the Villa when it's on the internet on Sundays or Mondays, every time I watch them I feel my decision to walk away is justified. Average players 'earning' obscene amounts of money for sterile, ineffective, dull. boring football at £25+ a week...forget it, I can have entry to a non league game between two teams who both attack each other and try to score whilst standing with a beer in my hand throughout the game and spend the same if not less.
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, I can have entry to a non league game between two teams who both attack each other and try to score whilst standing with a beer in my hand throughout the game
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5b/Wealdstone_Raider.jpeg)
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Where has the soul of the club gone, it probably started with Ellis who after stating categorically that no one person would ever own Ason Villa then went and did the opposite and made a fortune, no doubt he loves the Villa but he loves money more. Then we had a new owner who new nothing of the workings of the premier league had a history of failure at a previous sporting club and proceeded to give a lot of money to a succession of poor managers who paid a fortune for in the majority not very good players.
We are left with a dysfuntional club whos players appear to readily accept defeat, they have become de-sensitised to the embarrassment while the owner, only too happy to be at Villa Park in the early promising days now hides away from the fans and the smell that hangs over a once great club.
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I read the posts with interests but hope. If only coz the spirit showed against man city shows something. Granted for too long there's been a somewhat lifelessness but against man city and the start of first and second half Everton there was some organization and some spirit. That one win will do everything for the players. Watford at home is a catalyst as well as decent fixtures coming up. Realistically man city and Everton games nothing more than a point expected and that was prob v Everton. So who is to say what can happen. Will it be a case villa solid at home but now weak in travels ? I really see where we are all coming from and actually its not reactionary to the lifeless Everton display its the build up of the average and barely satisfactory results . This coupler with performances less than satisfaction means where's the optimism . The going thru the motions seems to be the ownership rather than the managers at least initially. Then what appears to happen is it seeps to the coaching and playing side of things. The vibrancy we wish for may not come more than short term until new ownership and investment are in place. I think that's one thing is clear for all to see.
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Sorry to be a complete misery arse Footy but there was very little organisation or spirit against Everton, as soon as the first goal went in the heads dropped and they gave up. We were steamrollered.
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Organization ? Allowances for 10 mins at start of each half? I don't want to let go of my straws
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I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:
'My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away
That applies to the sentiment of the OP, but hopefully not Aston Villa Football Club.
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I'd have the Greek in my goal - as barmy as Burridge would make a good keeper.
Foxy and the steamers in defence well they are getting on - would be in the referee's face all night.
C-crew in midfield and up front they always went the xtra mile
Danny would be the manager good organiser - see clay oven.
Doubt we would have 11 on the pitch by half time though.