Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Villa Memories => Topic started by: Dr Butler on October 20, 2015, 04:39:48 PM
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Ray speaks about the Villa and this bit about those stripey tossers did not surprise me
Q] What was your worst injury?
A] I was pretty lucky in that I didn't have too many problems but there was one that stood out was after a tackle by Albion's Len Cantello.
He came in behind me, went through me and I suffered damaged knee ligaments.
I was in plaster from the tip of my toe up to my groin and it took longer than a broken leg to repair.
http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~5080255,00.html
UTV
The Doc
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Class player for us alongside Keith Leonard up front what a great pairing for us in an era when a players performance for the team was never in doubt.
Also another reason why I hate those stripes shits so much
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He is still my all time favourite player. Scored the only goal in my first ever Villa game. I met him when I played in a charity game at Villa Park and I was absolutely speechless. Still my biggest Villa regret is not getting his autograph and/or a photo.
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Graydon was the middle one of 3 players whose careers the stripey filth effectively ended in the 60s and 70s.
First was John Woodward who was purchased from Stoke in anticipation of Hateley's imminent departure to Chelsea. In only his third game, at the Hawthorns on 15/10/67, Doug Fraser did him. Woodward had scored 2 goals in the previous game in a 3-0 win. Whether Woodward would have been any good long term we shall never know. Certainly his come back attempts at Villa failed. Went onto Walsall I think.
Then Graydon on 10/11/76 at the Hawthorns. Len Cantello did him.
Last but not least Alex Cropley on 10/12/77 at VP courtesy of Alistair Brown.
I was at the games for Woodward and Cropley but not Graydon.
Add to this the gloating from their fans in 1959 when we were relegated, no wonder I hate them with a vengeance.
Should you live by, work with or know any of their supporters and we go down, they will be every bit as obnoxious, probably more so, than any bluenose rag.
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My fave player of the mid 70's. Had a number 7 on the back of my shirt.
He used to live close to my parents and I remember knocking on the door to ask for his autograph as a 10 year old. He duly obliged and I went away a very happy boy
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I really enjoyed Ray Graydon's time at the Villa. Ray had genuine pace, he could go past defenders, he was a good crosser of the ball and he had a great shot on him. A great asset to Aston Villa during his time here. I was disappointed when he left; which was remarkable in a way as, before he signed, I'd never heard of him.
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I'd never heard of him when he joined us - didn't we exchange him for Brian Godfrey (with perhaps a bit of cash going to Bristol Rovers as well) ? I was always an admirer of Godfrey and if anything was a tad disappointed when we first let him go.
Ray Graydon was a player who progressed with the club through the good times of the early to mid 1970s and played well for us in all 3 divisions. A good hard working professional who I believe had earlier become a qualified electrician.
(However I'm struggling to think of another player who missed 2 penalties within about 15 minutes or so of each other - RG v Leeds - Centenary Celebration Match - 1974). I'll give 2 points for anyone who can tell me :)
A) The opposition and the score
B) The opposing Manager
(No google allowed !)
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I'd never heard of him when he joined us - didn't we exchange him for Brian Godfrey (with perhaps a bit of cash going to Bristol Rovers as well) ? I was always an admirer of Godfrey and if anything was a tad disappointed when we first let him go.
Ray Graydon was a player who progressed with the club through the good times of the early to mid 1970s and played well for us in all 3 divisions. A good hard working professional who I believe had earlier become a qualified electrician.
(However I'm struggling to think of another player who missed 2 penalties within about 15 minutes or so of each other - RG v Leeds - Centenary Celebration Match - 1974). I'll give 2 points for anyone who can tell me :)
A) The opposition and the score
B) The opposing Manager
(No google allowed !)
Leeds, 2-1 I think (might have been 1-0), Brian Clough.
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Watched Ray from '74 onwards - he slowed down towards the end of his career with us and some of the lads referred to him as "the crab" due to more sideways movement! I remmeber him going and us not having a dedicated winger - there were chants of "we want a winger" when things weren't going well for a couple of seasons until Mr Morley caught fire.
Was lucky enough to meet him at Walsall one day when I was on a training course - I didn't ask him about the '75 Final but his run for the cross very early in the 2nd half when we beat Manure 3-2 (76/77?) - was the ball out? He laughed and said it didn't matter as we beat them - top man...
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I'd never heard of him when he joined us - didn't we exchange him for Brian Godfrey (with perhaps a bit of cash going to Bristol Rovers as well) ? I was always an admirer of Godfrey and if anything was a tad disappointed when we first let him go.
Ray Graydon was a player who progressed with the club through the good times of the early to mid 1970s and played well for us in all 3 divisions. A good hard working professional who I believe had earlier become a qualified electrician.
(However I'm struggling to think of another player who missed 2 penalties within about 15 minutes or so of each other - RG v Leeds - Centenary Celebration Match - 1974). I'll give 2 points for anyone who can tell me :)
A) The opposition and the score
B) The opposing Manager
(No google allowed !)
Leeds, 2-1 I think (might have been 1-0), Brian Clough.
(http://www.collectsoccer.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/a/s/AstonVilla-Leeds-07.08.74-L.jpg)
any of you learned fellows know why were Leeds are opponents that night ?
UTV
The Doc
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They were league champions, I suppose.
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They were league champions, I suppose.
cheers Dave, I must be getting confused in my fat old age as I thought the Champions were Derby County.
UTV
The Doc
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Spot on guys - we lost 2-1 to Leeds and the game was during Brian Clough's 44 day reign as their manager - funny how I can't remember any mention of that game during the film about his time there - that was one game that they won !!
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Spot on guys - we lost 2-1 to Leeds and the game was during Brian Clough's 44 day reign as their manager - funny how I can't remember any mention of that game during the film about his time there - that was one game that they won !!
It's mentioned in the book by David Peace I think.
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Watched Ray from '74 onwards - he slowed down towards the end of his career with us and some of the lads referred to him as "the crab" due to more sideways movement! I remmeber him going and us not having a dedicated winger - there were chants of "we want a winger" when things weren't going well for a couple of seasons until Mr Morley caught fire.
Was lucky enough to meet him at Walsall one day when I was on a training course - I didn't ask him about the '75 Final but his run for the cross very early in the 2nd half when we beat Manure 3-2 (76/77?) - was the ball out? He laughed and said it didn't matter as we beat them - top man...
We had a definite hold on Manure at VP - at that time - correct me if I'm wrong but as I remember
1974-75 (Second Division) Won 2-0
1975-76 Won 2-1
1976-77 Won 3-2
1977-78 Won 2-1
how nice that would be these days
also if I remember correctly we lost a two goal lead to only draw in 1978-79 and lost during a particularly bad spell for us 0-3 the following year, but I won't dwell on that.
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Juan Pablo Angel missed two penalties at Fulham in 2005, we pissed all over them and finally got a goal until the 90th minute when Lee Clark equalised. It was also the Djemba twins debut.
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I'd never heard of him when he joined us - didn't we exchange him for Brian Godfrey (with perhaps a bit of cash going to Bristol Rovers as well) ? I was always an admirer of Godfrey and if anything was a tad disappointed when we first let him go.
Ray Graydon was a player who progressed with the club through the good times of the early to mid 1970s and played well for us in all 3 divisions. A good hard working professional who I believe had earlier become a qualified electrician.
(However I'm struggling to think of another player who missed 2 penalties within about 15 minutes or so of each other - RG v Leeds - Centenary Celebration Match - 1974). I'll give 2 points for anyone who can tell me :)
A) The opposition and the score
B) The opposing Manager
(No google allowed !)
Yes, I was there. Both pens at the Witton End. I was in the Holte. Only Villa no competitive game ive been to before or since. I was 9 years old but recall Leeds were two up and the ref played extra minutes at the end to allow us to score. Cant recall who scored
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For his goals and "assists" in our promotions from the old 3rd and 2nd divisions, and helping stabilise us in our first season back in the 1st, Ray Graydon remains a hugely important player in our history. 82 goals in 226 appearances (+ 5 as sub) - hugely impressive for a winger.
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We all have a bunch of iconic Villa memories, and for myself few better than those memories of Graydon and Gidman being blown down the right wing by the Holte.
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The Grader.
A great player for us, remember well his crosses for Keith Leonard and Chico Hamilton to power in headers into the roof of the Holte End net to beat the Stripeyfilth 3-1 in our promotion season. Won us the League Cup, storming runs and crosses, always a scorer of vital goals.
Graydon got 27 goals in that season, 74-75, the best season I remember supporting Villa, we were unstoppable.
Happy, happy days.
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He was a great right winger for us at that time, got him from Bristol Rovers if my old recollection is correct and was brilliant for us. Always remember being behind the goal at Wembley for the penalty v Kevin Keelan, who had been brilliant. When he knocked the rebound in it was an amazing feeling for a 13 year old on his first visit to Wembley.
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He was a great right winger for us at that time, got him from Bristol Rovers if my old recollection is correct and was brilliant for us. Always remember being behind the goal at Wembley for the penalty v Kevin Keelan, who had been brilliant. When he knocked the rebound in it was an amazing feeling for a 13 year old on his first visit to Wembley.
"Jesus Saves but Graydon knocks in rebounds"
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He was a great right winger for us at that time, got him from Bristol Rovers if my old recollection is correct and was brilliant for us. Always remember being behind the goal at Wembley for the penalty v Kevin Keelan, who had been brilliant.
That's one of the very first things I can remember watching on television.
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He was a great right winger for us at that time, got him from Bristol Rovers if my old recollection is correct and was brilliant for us. Always remember being behind the goal at Wembley for the penalty v Kevin Keelan, who had been brilliant.
That's one of the very first things I can remember watching on television.
It was a brilliant day, first time I ever went to London nd to be fair it was a crap game but who cares lol
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One of the few who was a regular first teamer for us through from the 3rd to the 1st.
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one of my Heroes, I was also behind the goal when be caught the rebound at Knee height, let it drop and whacked it in.
I could be totally wrong on that but it is my minds eye memory.
What does Bernie say ?
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one of my Heroes, I was also behind the goal when be caught the rebound at Knee height, let it drop and whacked it in.
I could be totally wrong on that but it is my minds eye memory.
What does Bernie say ?
That's about how I remember it- I can still live that split second as Keelan saved it thinking we'd missed our chance. A great Villa man, Ray.
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Does anyone remember what a great header it was from Chris Nicholl that lead to the handball for the penalty? I have to say, it was a great save from Mel Machin? for the penalty, a save most goalkeepers would have been proud of. I felt sorry for Nicholl after the game as that header deserved a goal and he'd been great.
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Does anyone remember what a great header it was from Chris Nicholl that lead to the handball for the penalty? I have to say, it was a great save from Mel Machin? for the penalty, a save most goalkeepers would have been proud of. I felt sorry for Nicholl after the game as that header deserved a goal and he'd been great.
one of my Heroes, I was also behind the goal when be caught the rebound at Knee height, let it drop and whacked it in.
I could be totally wrong on that but it is my minds eye memory.
What does Bernie say ?
That's about how I remember it- I can still live that split second as Keelan saved it thinking we'd missed our chance. A great Villa man, Ray.
I was behind the goal as well, to the right corner as the old stadium went round (block C if I remember correctly.
I thought Nicholl's header was in as well - obviously Mel Machin would get more than just a booking for his "save" these days - although I remember a similar tremendous goal line save from Fred Turnbull in a game against Notts County in the 3rd Division winning season.
I, actually couldn't watch the penalty and I was looking down at the ground when I heard about 25,000 people around me gasping a huge intake of breath, obviously then that made me look up and my recollection was seeing Ray Graydon whacking the ball in at the second attempt - my friend with me then had to tell me what had actually happened.
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Funny what time does innit?
Clearly remember the penalty, the save, the rebound being whacked in (we were quite low down to the right of the goal)...emotions all over the shop in about 2 seconds!
But completely forgot how we got the penalty in the first place until ds mentioned it - the Chris Nicholl header and the Machin save....again emotions going mad!
Met Chris Nicholl at an awards do a year later with my mate who was at Wembley with me on the day. He was a massive hero for us, as was Ray Graydon.
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isn't funny I always thought I saw this game live on TV on the Saturday but according to the web they only showed highlights, sadly we could not make the final that day.
League Cup Final
Sat 1st Mar Aston Villa 1 (Graydon) Norwich City 0
ITV Highlights
Brian Moore
*This was the only time an FA Cup or League Cup final was contested by two non-top flight clubs (there were no top flight clubs in the Semi-finals of this season's competition either!). It was third time lucky for Villa boss Ron Saunders who'd managed the two previous League Cup runners-up (including Norwch), Ray Graydon was Villa's match winner - following up his saved penalty to score from the rebound late in the game. All regions's (except ATV who had their own "Star Soccer" programme) showed LWT's coverage which was broadcast in the London area on Sunday 2-3pm.
includes semi final, the Nicholl header and the penalty.
UTV
The Doc
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Does anyone remember what a great header it was from Chris Nicholl that lead to the handball for the penalty? I have to say, it was a great save from Mel Machin? for the penalty, a save most goalkeepers would have been proud of. I felt sorry for Nicholl after the game as that header deserved a goal and he'd been great.
Now you mention it, and having looked at the clip, big Chris' header does come back to me. He had his moment at Old Trafford just over 2 years later though!
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Does anyone remember what a great header it was from Chris Nicholl that lead to the handball for the penalty? I have to say, it was a great save from Mel Machin? for the penalty, a save most goalkeepers would have been proud of. I felt sorry for Nicholl after the game as that header deserved a goal and he'd been great.
Now you mention it, and having looked at the clip, big Chris' header does come back to me. He had his moment at Old Trafford just over 2 years later though!
I'll never forget that moment either, I was on the side almost level with where he shot from and I remember thinking "you'll never score from there"!
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I remember the Grader. Don't think he was one if the Villa greats but will never forget being behind the goal at Wembley when he banged the rebound in.
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Does anyone remember what a great header it was from Chris Nicholl that lead to the handball for the penalty? I have to say, it was a great save from Mel Machin? for the penalty, a save most goalkeepers would have been proud of. I felt sorry for Nicholl after the game as that header deserved a goal and he'd been great.
Now you mention it, and having looked at the clip, big Chris' header does come back to me. He had his moment at Old Trafford just over 2 years later though!
I'll never forget that moment either, I was on the side almost level with where he shot from and I remember thinking "you'll never score from there"!
Me too, we were about level with him on the opposite side to the dugouts and as he received the ball, I said to my mates that we really needed to score soon or we were gone. I never believed he could(would) score from there. Cue pandemonium.
Strangely enough, and I've posted this before, I've never before or since heard noise like when Brian Little scored his first goal shortly afterwards, and that includes his winner. It was like a lightening Bolt exploding directly overhead. Happy days.
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Does anyone remember what a great header it was from Chris Nicholl that lead to the handball for the penalty? I have to say, it was a great save from Mel Machin? for the penalty, a save most goalkeepers would have been proud of. I felt sorry for Nicholl after the game as that header deserved a goal and he'd been great.
Now you mention it, and having looked at the clip, big Chris' header does come back to me. He had his moment at Old Trafford just over 2 years later though!
I'll never forget that moment either, I was on the side almost level with where he shot from and I remember thinking "you'll never score from there"!
Me too, we were about level with him on the opposite side to the dugouts and as he received the ball, I said to my mates that we really needed to score soon or we were gone. I never believed he could(would) score from there. Cue pandemonium.
Strangely enough, and I've posted this before, I've never before or since heard noise like when Brian Little scored his first goal shortly afterwards, and that includes his winner. It was like a lightening Bolt exploding directly overhead. Happy days.
What I also remember about that as well was - after Brain Little put us 2-1 up (2 goals in a minute) Lyons equalising for them and as we were singing "we shall not be moved" the fact they'd levelled didn't subdue the singing - I remember Everton supporters in the stand singing it as well - was the only occasion I recall both sets of supporters singing it at the same time !!
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I was right behind the goal in line with Nichols shot and it just seemed to keep coming and coming straight at me absolute mayhem when it hit the back of the net
Oh happy days
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Graydon was a good winger who could score goals as well as make them but I don't recall him being a particular fan favourite a lot of the time.
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Graydon was a good winger who could score goals as well as make them but I don't recall him being a particular fan favourite a lot of the time.
He was in the enclave where I stood down the Witton End BDE. I genuinely cannot remember anyone ever getting on his back giving him stick. He would; and did, give his all everytime I saw him play.
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from that clip there is a link to the whole game.
I was 18 then and had been in London since Friday afternoon. probably saw more on the youtube recording than I remember from the game.
some great second half performances from "Saunders Heroes "
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Graydon was a good winger who could score goals as well as make them but I don't recall him being a particular fan favourite a lot of the time.
He was in the enclave where I stood down the Witton End BDE. I genuinely cannot remember anyone ever getting on his back giving him stick. He would; and did, give his all everytime I saw him play.
He came back with Coventry for a boxing day game around 1978 and was serenaded with "Ray Graydon - shit" which really upset me.
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It would have upset me also, I think there was a minority who always moaned and slagged off Graydon.
The opposite was Chico, the Villa Park Faithfull loved him and he could do no wrong !
Yet when we played away, he was often, missing in action.
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I thought Graydon was terrific for the Villa. He was not what you call an orthodox winger he would dribble side to side and this was totally confusing for the opposition. Remember this was before back to back football on TV and video so teams had less preparation skills available to them for games.
I always thought he was held in high regard by Villains and certainly cannot recall any poor form singing when he returned to Villa Park.
Time causing all sorts of issues with memories but I am surprised just how little he did play in 1976/77 - he was immense in the 2nd replay at Old Trafford. Thanks for the memories RG.
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I thought Graydon was terrific for the Villa. He was not what you call an orthodox winger he would dribble side to side and this was totally confusing for the opposition. Remember this was before back to back football on TV and video so teams had less preparation skills available to them for games.
I always thought he was held in high regard by Villains and certainly cannot recall any poor form singing when he returned to Villa Park.
Time causing all sorts of issues with memories but I am surprised just how little he did play in 1976/77 - he was immense in the 2nd replay at Old Trafford. Thanks for the memories RG.
Time is causing me all sorts of issues with memories as well - I know Dixie Deehan played no.9 in the 2nd replay - but was Ray Graydon playing due to Andy Gray's absence ?
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I thought Graydon was terrific for the Villa. He was not what you call an orthodox winger he would dribble side to side and this was totally confusing for the opposition. Remember this was before back to back football on TV and video so teams had less preparation skills available to them for games.
I always thought he was held in high regard by Villains and certainly cannot recall any poor form singing when he returned to Villa Park.
Time causing all sorts of issues with memories but I am surprised just how little he did play in 1976/77 - he was immense in the 2nd replay at Old Trafford. Thanks for the memories RG.
Time is causing me all sorts of issues with memories as well - I know Dixie Deehan played no.9 in the 2nd replay - but was Ray Graydon playing due to Andy Gray's absence ?
Gray and Frank CArrodus both got injured the week before at Derby.
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Cheers (again) Dave
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What I also remember about that as well was - after Brain Little put us 2-1 up (2 goals in a minute) Lyons equalising for them and as we were singing "we shall not be moved" the fact they'd levelled didn't subdue the singing - I remember Everton supporters in the stand singing it as well - was the only occasion I recall both sets of supporters singing it at the same time !!
Blues and Albion singing SOTV
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What I also remember about that as well was - after Brain Little put us 2-1 up (2 goals in a minute) Lyons equalising for them and as we were singing "we shall not be moved" the fact they'd levelled didn't subdue the singing - I remember Everton supporters in the stand singing it as well - was the only occasion I recall both sets of supporters singing it at the same time !!
Blues and Albion singing SOTV
that's not so much a song, more an anthem for that pair of poxy fans.
UTV
The Doc
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My thoughts exactly.
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I'm surprised that doesn't turn into - quote "We hate Villa more than you"
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I remember the Grader. Don't think he was one if the Villa greats but will never forget being behind the goal at Wembley when he banged the rebound in.
He was 2nd top scorer behind Lochhead with 14 goals when we were promoted from the 3rd division in 1971/2. He was 2nd top scorer with 19 goals, just one behind Brian Little, when we promoted from the 2nd division in 1974/5. All this from a winger.
In my opinion those statistics show he contributed as much as any other player in getting us back from the 3rd to the 1st and makes him a true Villa great in our history.
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Of the old guns the only one who was capable of playing at the top level. Aitken was an old man when he played at Arsenal in the 0-0, Hamilton not good enough for top division, apparently Cumbes wasn't, although I thought he was decent enough, Saunders and myself though had similar ideas about Evans - wouldn't call Leighton Phillips as one of the old guns before his name gets a mention.
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a great image of Ray...
(http://i2.birminghammail.co.uk/incoming/article408634.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/villa-chester%20(16).jpg)
UTV
The Doc
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a great image of Ray...
(http://i2.birminghammail.co.uk/incoming/article408634.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/villa-chester%20(16).jpg)
UTV
The Doc
Was the photo the Semi Final against Chester?
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yep it was wittonwarrior...
UTV
The Doc
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The goals from this game are on the Villa video released around 1989-90, however it's a shame there's nothing anywhere from the home leg (which we won 3-2 - and in which Chester came from 2-0 down to level 2-2)
I remember coming in from this game to watch the highlights of the other semi final which was Norwich beating Man Utd. Strange to think the three teams promoted from the 2nd division that season all reached the League Cup semis.
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The goals from this game are on the Villa video released around 1989-90, however it's a shame there's nothing anywhere from the home leg (which we won 3-2 - and in which Chester came from 2-0 down to level 2-2)
I remember coming in from this game to watch the highlights of the other semi final which was Norwich beating Man Utd. Strange to think the three teams promoted from the 2nd division that season all reached the League Cup semis.
I still remember a cartoon in the Mirror, with some carol singers knocking on a door singing "Silent night, holy night, not a first division team in sight"