Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Dave on September 13, 2015, 05:55:48 PM
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How to effortlessly turn three points into zero points.
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F.U.C.K
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Two up and Sherwood cocked it up.
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Capitulation. Gutless
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Tim Sherwood lost us that match. 2-0 up, not playing well 2nd half, shut up shop and defend it out.
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Sherwood you cocksocket.
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Utter bollocks after we went two up. This team has a lot to learn.
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Nothing left to say really, it's all been said before.
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Shit manager.
No support from me anymore.
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Normally happens vs Man Utd but Leicester City?
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Sherwood cost us the game there with his utterly shit substitutions.
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Stunningly bad last 30 mins. Absolutely staggering. Our team seems completely physically underprepared and taxtically naive. Guzan looks absolutely hopeless.
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0-2 up, keep the ball, slow the game, simple.
Monumental fuck up by Sherwood there, it takes a massive fuck up too throw that away.
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Ah bollocks.
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Absolute garbage for the last half an hour. We didn't need four attackers when ahead by two. Really really poor result.
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See you in May for the annual points scrabble.
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Saw an hour of great potential followed by half an hour of the reality unfortunately
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Showed absolutely no composure in the final 20 minutes.
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Too early for Sherwood out? Never thought he was up to it.
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So fucking sick of throwing points away. Absolutely sick of seeing the team, who in fair had been pretty good for an hour, collapse so spinelessly.
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Biggest fucking joke.
Horrible substitutions, Jack didn't even touch the ball second half, don't see it with ayew honestly, Bacuna was on edge the whole game.
What the hell are we doing?
This again. :-\
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Richards and Lescott at CB and we still conceded 3 in 20 Mins, where do you go from here?
I think Sanchez is a great player but he doesn't half make some fucking mistakes.
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This is going to be another long old season again isn't it? All that early optimism is fast evaporating.
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This twat is a clueless cockney chancer - I have been saying it for months .
His substitutions are mystifying - he hasn't got a clue .
And Ray Wilkins is obviously a massive help .....
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Have not felt this angry for ages .
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Shocking and with this capitulation I agree with those who say we are in for a relegation battle again.
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Gutted. Why was it he took Gil off? Ayew is worse than fucking useless.
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Resisting the urge to throw the phone at the TV.
Saw out the storm early 1st half and got the 2nd. Gabby should of stayed on as his running was holding them back. Gestede needs players around him so useless having him try and hold the ball up on his own.
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Look, I appreciate this buccaneering approach. It's a breath of fresh air to some extent.
But when you're 2-0 up away from home, you SHUT UP FUCKING SHOP.
It's worrying when the fans' tactics look better than the manager's.
That doubt I have is nagging very fucking hard tonight.
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Fucking garbage, as usual. Tim needs to wise up, and fast. Anyone who thinks a result against the knuckledraggers is a formality needs to prepare themselves for a shock.
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Sherwood - good general manager, good man manager. A turgid piece of fucking anal discharge when it comes to changing the course of a game. Seriously, something must go on in that brain of his that tells him it is a good idea to do something that really, really fucking isn't. What a donkeys nutsack. Deserves a slap.
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Sherwood keeps costing us games.
That was truly pathetic, and far from the first time, it just keeps on happening. Opposition change something, we ignore it, then when we do change it, we do so by making brainless subs.
Guzan looks like Scott Carson to me.
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It only took 17 minutes.
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Second half dreadful, Bacuna should have come off sooner, and Ayew on was a disaster - Veretout and we'd have won...
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Our back line is cursed. No matter who we put in there, they're crap.
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ayew for gil
maybe gil had an injury but bring a midfield on at least
Bacuna ,` Guzan are not good enough and other than gabbys assist he aint much better
I am worried about Ayew , but to be fair we were getting hammered . To to give the ball away at 2-2 is criminal.
sherwood you seriously boobed and what a shame as our two goals were beautys
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Gutted. Tictacs Time cost us 3 points there. Gil was tiring so needed to come off - but Ayew on instead? Just why? He looks totally lost at this level, and we needed to shore up the middle not bring a striker on - Veretout was the obvious choice. All the good work of the first half laid to waste in that one substitution. Going to be another long season I'm afraid.
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That last 30 minutes was as bad as anything in the last 5 years.
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It just needed Clark to come on for Bacuna with Richards going to right back. Veretout for Gil, with Gestede for Agbonlahor.
It really was as simple as that.
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so fucking naive. It truly beggars belief. I'm sick of it.
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Some real awful performances starting with Sherwood- his decisions and lack of them cost us the game.
Bacna an absoloute liability the whole match- Decision leave him on til 85 minutes
Ayew has shown enough to say not nearly good enough
Guzan garaunteed a fuck up every game.
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For all our fuck ups that Mahrez was the real difference though. We'd have won that game if it wasn't for him taking the game by the scruff of the neck. Just wish our players could have done some of that in the second half.
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Second half dreadful, Bacuna should have come off sooner, and Ayew on was a disaster - Veretout and we'd have won...
Bet he was sitting there wondering why he'd chosen us over them.
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Manager to blame, wrong sub and failure to react to the opposition changes. Feel for Richards as he was immense on the whol and didn't deserve to be on the losing side.
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What kind of fucking clueless twat replaces midfieldres with strikers when we are two up? Tim fucking Sherwood, thats who! I am so angry I could shit a live pitbull!
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Thrown away a game again. This happens far too often and the manager needs to take responsibility for this one. Sort it out and bloody quick Tim.
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Too early for Sherwood out? Never thought he was up to it.
Jesus...
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Clark and Vertout on at 2-0 for Gil and Gabby and we see it out 2-0 without trouble. I mean really. Defies fucking thought.
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I hate football. Fucking hate it. It just goes from bad to worse each week these last four years and you wonder where its going to end. Mr Sherwood might be a breath of fresh air but he tactically hasn't got a clue. Laughing stock - again!
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This twat is a clueless cockney chancer - I have been saying it for months .
His substitutions are mystifying - he hasn't got a clue .
And Ray Wilkins is obviously a massive help .....
Yep, nail on head
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Fucking rubbish again from the manager, it's only 5 games in but how many stupid fucking substitutions have we made already? A start of Palace, Bournemouth, Sunderland and Leicester and we've got 4 fucking points. More late goals, more throwing away of points and fucking comebacks, I'm sick of the same old shit.
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Well that's ruined tea-time in our house
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Just tired of being embarrassed..
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Someone said we did nothing to combat their changes. We actually changed things to help them.
At 2-0 up, we take a midfielder off for a forward. Okay, Gil not great defensively, but why not bring Veretout on? Change the balance of the team to slightly more solid instead of slightly more attacking? Again at 2-0 up Hutton for Bacuna is the obvious one.
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When was the last time we had a manager that realised a match lasts for ninety fucking minutes?
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Gil was running the game ! Ayew don't even resemble a footballer , joke sub
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What I find remarkable is that Sherwood couldn't see that we were being physically dominated and didn't try to sure up the midfield. I do find it bizarre quite how badly Sanchez drops off the pace in a game.
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Bacuna is never going to make it as a right back
Westwood and Sanchez were over run so I'm not blaming them as much
Grealish great goal but not strong enough yet to run midfield
Shocking substitutions Veretout and even Richardson should have come on
Ayew Sinclair Gestede Gabby whoever was up front totally failed to hold the ball up
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What an appalling 2nd half capitulation when we should have had that game sewn up in the first half. Honestly it's been fuckin torture watching Villa for the last 5 years.
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Our back line is cursed. No matter who we put in there, they're crap.
Then it must be the midfield who simply cannot keep other teams at arm's length. Teams with their tails up just waltz through us at ease.
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Fucking rubbish again from the manager, it's only 5 games in but how many stupid fucking substitutions have we made already? A start of Palace, Bournemouth, Sunderland and Leicester and we've got 4 fucking points. More late goals, more throwing away of points and fucking comebacks, I'm sick of the same old shit.
Said the same thing last week and people got angry at me. We are just pissing away points.
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New look Villa team same old fuck ups as the last God knows how many teams. Why, when you have the game almost in the bag change things? Ayew for Gil, what was that all about? Don't start me on Bacuna. But Guzan. The one thing you had to do was collect that ball but you bottled it agains a midget.
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I blame DIM TIM
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Gil was fucked, fair enough bringing him off.
We lacked leadership and character those last minutes, plenty of experienced players there but Leicester wanted it far more than we did.
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What I find remarkable is that Sherwood couldn't see that we were being physically dominated and didn't try to sure up the midfield. I do find it bizarre quite how badly Sanchez drops off the pace in a game.
Absolutely. I'm still mystified by our fitness levels. We seem to be at a real disadvantage in the latter stages of games.
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Sherwood really has a lot to answer for - yes the style and play in general is better, but points for style don't count. That was a fuckin horrible substitution, one an amateur would not make. Cost us 3 points.
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Don't think I can take much more of this humiliation
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Too early for Sherwood out? Never thought he was up to it.
Jesus...
Expand please.
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Someone needs to explain to me why you would replace Gil with Ayew instead of Veretout. Gil was struggling but we needed then to consolidate what we had rather than go for a glory win. Inexperience from the Manager and one he should learn from otherwise we will be in trouble.
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Game lost when he takes Gil off & puts on Ayew, 2-0 up with 30 mins to got you kill the game. Basic decision making from Tim cost us the game. Midfield was overrun & he does nothing to address it. Naivity doesn't even begin to describe it.
Smallest guy on the pitch should never beat Guzan to that cross.
Sanchez is always fucked after 60 mins, if he can't last 90 he shouldn't be a premiership footballer.
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Tactics Tim (oxymoron) and his magical substitutions strike again. He's showing week after week that he's completely out of his depth. And welcome back stupid Villa, let's give the opposition as many helping hands as we can.
Amavi is talented but stupid and reckless. Bacuna ditto but minus the talent
Why can everyone except Sherwood see that Sanchez is great for 65-70 minutes and then turns into the biggest liability on the pitch, a slow-motion ball repellant.
Ayew is yet to show he is worth 10 bob let alone 10m.
Sherwood can just fuck off back to London.
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Our back line is cursed. No matter who we put in there, they're crap.
Then it must be the midfield who simply cannot keep other teams at arm's length. Teams with their tails up just waltz through us at ease.
They were two against five in the second half. Tim, instead of helping them, sends on Gestede and Ayew, two players couldn't keep hold of the ball if you velcroed it to them.
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3 fucking league games in a row, Sherwood has been horrifically outperformed by the opposing manager at half time.
It's not fucking acceptable. What the fuck is Wilkins doing??!! Surely he can see how monumentally stupid Sherwood is being game after game, yet nothing fucking changes. Amavi played Mahrez out of the game in the first half, so Ranieri made the rather obvious move of making him more central. It should have been simple for Tim to realise, especially at 2-0, that another midfielder was needed to combat the threat?
Sherwood definitely appears to have a limit. He's got passion, and was right for the situation last season, but tactically is nowhere near a premier league standard manager.
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I don't blame Sherwood, I blame the players. Doesn't matter what tactics or formation you use, to bottle it from 0-2 and cruising is 100% down to them. We need a proper captain because every time we find ourselves in a pickle and needing some leadership we just find 11 shrinking violets. Absolutely pathetic.
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For all our fuck ups that Mahrez was the real difference though. We'd have won that game if it wasn't for him taking the game by the scruff of the neck. Just wish our players could have done some of that in the second half.
I agree, he's really flying
But in that situation you don't say - good luck with that chaps. you bring on a third central midfielder to protect the space better. Especially when 2-0 up
I'm really furious. We threw it away. They're not a good team. They've got a fantastic crowd and a great player in Mahrez.
Fucking hell Sherwood.
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I'd rather drop than go through many more seasons of being humiliated every weekend and stinking up the lower reaches of the league. Genuinely.
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WE FUCKING OLÉ'D.
How embarrassing is that?
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why the fuck does guzan do that and let sneezy score with an header - twat
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Too early for Sherwood out? Never thought he was up to it.
Jesus...
I think Chelsea have bought him and will send him out on loan for experience.
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i am seriously worrried about Sherwood as manager.
It wass so fuckin obvious what we needed to do to take home 3 points but he obviously can not seee it.
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we didn't have a midfield but that twat
mahrez was on fire
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I'd rather drop than go through many more seasons of being humiliated every weekend and stinking up the lower reaches of the league. Genuinely.
Yep starting to agree with that mentality
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Oh for fucks sake. Fuck football. Fuck this shit. I need a break.
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I don't blame Sherwood, I blame the players. Doesn't matter what tactics or formation you use, to bottle it from 0-2 and cruising is 100% down to them. We need a proper captain because every time we find ourselves in a pickle and needing some leadership we just find 11 shrinking violets. Absolutely pathetic.
Nonsense. When they put Mahrez in the middle with two wide man, and the left back in particular bombing on - and you're 2-0 up - you put the players on the pitch who can cope with that.
Ayew, Gestede and Sinclair, with Grealish alongside a tiring Westwood and Sanchez. That's not what you do. That really isn't.
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I don't blame Sherwood, I blame the players. Doesn't matter what tactics or formation you use, to bottle it from 0-2 and cruising is 100% down to them. We need a proper captain because every time we find ourselves in a pickle and needing some leadership we just find 11 shrinking violets. Absolutely pathetic.
I don't think Micah shrunk to be fair. He had a pretty good game and I was proud of his play and commitment. Bacuna and Ayew however, I don't know wtf they are doing.
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I don't know if it's too soon for Sherwood out, but I do think he's crap.
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Why in God's name did we give Bacuna a 5 year deal?
Totally naive from Sherwood for the third game running. He's got us playing better than we did under Lambert, but he has to shut up shop when your 2 up away from home.
Anyone who thinks this is not a relegation battle needs to wake up.
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Yorke can fuck off as well the grinning camel toe trousered bellend.
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He should get a ban for his disgraceful effort to get Amavi sent off though. Good as he was, he is a cheating bastard.
And Vardy playing for England is as sickening as Terry, nasty scroat.
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I don't blame Sherwood, I blame the players. Doesn't matter what tactics or formation you use, to bottle it from 0-2 and cruising is 100% down to them. We need a proper captain because every time we find ourselves in a pickle and needing some leadership we just find 11 shrinking violets. Absolutely pathetic.
The players fell apart in the second half. But that is 3 league games in a row where the opposition has made a simple change and Tim has been fucked because of it.
That is definitely more on Sherwood
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Unbelievable.
Fuck off Villa.
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Guzan looks like Scott Carson to me.
Enckelman more like.
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Nathan Dyer HEADED the winner between two defenders and a goalie.
Only Villa.
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And this wankfest in the media over Lesta is also really rubbing it in.
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What a sickening kick in the bollocks
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Someone said we did nothing to combat their changes. We actually changed things to help them.
At 2-0 up, we take a midfielder off for a forward. Okay, Gil not great defensively, but why not bring Veretout on? Change the balance of the team to slightly more solid instead of slightly more attacking? Again at 2-0 up Hutton for Bacuna is the obvious one.
Exactly.
Sherwood is his own worst enemy. He has just cost us the game, and not for the first time.
What on earth was he thinking? Was he actually watching the match?
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I don't blame Sherwood, I blame the players. Doesn't matter what tactics or formation you use, to bottle it from 0-2 and cruising is 100% down to them
The players clearly aren't faultless in this scenario, but when you have a manager who appears to make decisions to actively make their jobs harder it's easy to see why they react badly to it.
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Just massively disappointing, but I can't get so angry anymore. It just feels all too familiar.
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I don't know if it's too soon for Sherwood out, but I do think he's crap.
He is clearly not though, as in most games this season we have been much the better side. So he can set a team up, even build one, that is clearly good enough. What he can't do, which is killing him, is react when the opposition impose themselves on the game. It is not rocket science, but to Tim it clearly fucking is.
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terrible management, if you take Gil off it has to be to bring on Veretout and strengthen the middle of the park, we just looked so open after the change which gave them the chance to get back into it.
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I'd rather drop than go through many more seasons of being humiliated every weekend and stinking up the lower reaches of the league. Genuinely.
Yep starting to agree with that mentality
That was far better than last years performance at Leicester.
Let's not be silly
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Nathan Dyer HEADED the winner between two defenders and a goalie.
5 ft 5. An inch taller than Alan Wright.
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Why did we look so knackered as a team after an hour compared to Leicester?
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Utterly depressing.
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I'm struggling to think of poorer substitutions in a match. Sherwood has really, really fucked up here. How he couldn't see that our midfield was desperately struggling is beyond me.
To bring on Ayew when we went 2-0 up is at best naive, at worst it is unbelievably cocky.
To have Veretout on the bench, a defensive midfielder no less and one of some renown, and to leave him unused is baffling.
*Deep breath*
Alright, there was loads to be positive about in the first half, and we are clearly capable of playing good stuff.
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Just seen the 3rd again. Guzan. Just take everything out!
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Someone said we did nothing to combat their changes. We actually changed things to help them.
At 2-0 up, we take a midfielder off for a forward. Okay, Gil not great defensively, but why not bring Veretout on? Change the balance of the team to slightly more solid instead of slightly more attacking? Again at 2-0 up Hutton for Bacuna is the obvious one.
Exactly.
Sherwood is his own worst enemy. He has just cost us the game, and not for the first time.
What on earth was he thinking? Was he actually watching the match?
I said in the game, when we were 2 up, that he must watch a different one to us. It is way more frustrating than under Lambert, because we are actually a decent team now, and should be able to change it for the better.
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Guzan looks like Scott Carson to me.
Enckelman more like.
More inexperience from Tim. Undermine a good but not great keeper and fail to get a credible alternative in. Now we've got a busted flush in sticks. How many games did he keep us in last season?
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Two super goals and f-all to show for it. Ridiculously open and invited them to attack down the wings. How many times did they bypass our midfield?
But tbh, when they scored the first we all knew what the outcome was going to be, it was inevitable.
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I don't blame Sherwood, I blame the players. Doesn't matter what tactics or formation you use, to bottle it from 0-2 and cruising is 100% down to them. We need a proper captain because every time we find ourselves in a pickle and needing some leadership we just find 11 shrinking violets. Absolutely pathetic.
Nonsense. When they put Mahrez in the middle with two wide man, and the left back in particular bombing on - and you're 2-0 up - you put the players on the pitch who can cope with that.
Ayew, Gestede and Sinclair, with Grealish alongside a tiring Westwood and Sanchez. That's not what you do. That really isn't.
At what point does a professional footballer take responsibility and be accountable? Granted the formation may not assist, but hells bells our players need to grow a pair of sphericals, show some courage and concede only over their dead bodies. Leicester's first goal was because the scorer was hungrier to get to the ball, same with the third and the second they just danced around our shadows. Players need to stand up and be counted.
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I'm struggling to think of poorer substitutions in a match. Sherwood has really, really fucked up here. How he couldn't see that our midfield was desperately struggling is beyond me.
To bring on Ayew when we went 2-0 up is at best naive, at worst it is unbelievably cocky.
To have Veretout on the bench, a defensive midfielder no less and one of some renown, and to leave him unused is baffling.
*Deep breath*
Alright, there was loads to be positive about in the first half, and we are clearly capable of playing good stuff.
I fear you are spot on with cocky. I thought it was bordering on arrogance. You do this and we can still do this kind of reaction.
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He's trying to be too clever for his own good with these weird tactical substitutions. It's right pissing me off, 5 years of complete shite, 5 bastard years, week in week out stupid decisions, gormeless players, epic comebacks against us, late goals against us, lower league losses. It's getting to the point where there is zero enjoyment from this crap every week, even when we're 1 or 2 up I just expect us to spunk it up the wall.
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Now Tim. Here's your final question for the big prize.
You're winning 2-0 against a team who have so far dominated the 2nd half. Do you a) Bring on an extra midfielder to slow them down..?
Or b) bring on a lump of a centre forward who has no more chance of touching the ball than I have from the sofa in my living room..?
Think carefully now Tim. b) you say..? That's your final answer? Oh Tim... look at what you could have won..!
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Yorke and Niall Quinn confirming they thought Sherwood's subs were a bit naieve.
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I don't blame Sherwood, I blame the players. Doesn't matter what tactics or formation you use, to bottle it from 0-2 and cruising is 100% down to them
The players clearly aren't faultless in this scenario, but when you have a manager who appears to make decisions to actively make their jobs harder it's easy to see why they react badly to it.
I totally agree, yes ok Tim had something in mind with the subs but quite honestly the players bottled it. Pretty sure if Gana was playing that wouldn't have happened. Midfield as too similar to last years losers
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Two super goals and f-all to show for it. Ridiculously open and invited them to attack down the wings. How many times did they bypass our midfield?
But tbh, when they scored the first we all knew what the outcome was going to be, it was inevitable.
Sad that I felt the same way. We did everything we could to lose that game. Can't even get out of our own way.
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The substitutions were atrocious. We've pissed 3 points up the wall. Tim - why not just not make any substitutions at all unless a player is injured, as your ability to read the game appears to be abysmal.
If we do get into the same heap of mess as we did last year, we could very well come to rue today.
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Sherwood seems to be playing to a mentality that a game lasts an hour, tops. It's all very well saying we were the better team etc, but we deserve nothing if we can't see out a game, whether we're winning or drawing. I despise those last fifteen minutes where it lasts hours if we're ahead and seconds if we're behind. Almost as much as I despise the whistle to kick off a second half.
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Just massively disappointing, but I can't get so angry anymore. It just feels all too familiar.
This is exactly right.
New players, new coaching staff, same shit.
Palace and Leicester have both done a second half job job on us by upping the tempo, putting pressure on us in our own half and playing like they just KNOW they will score and win the game.
They both created an impetus that we were unable to cope with.
In reality, it seems that our game plan is knock it around across the back and then try and hit on the break.
Depressingly familiar.
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As good as Sherwood was to have us play the way we did in the first half, he was equally awful for not being able to make adjustments in the second half as needed.
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There even slating Tim for his subs on skysports
It was a scandolous decision. Gil had to stay on for at least 10 mins. Then as people have said bring on Clark etc sure it up . I'm sure gil confidence will be dented after that.
Positives are we did play better than under Lambert the play flowed! Gana and traoee will also help! The starting 11 did ok. Richards was solid.
Guzan decision at 2-2 was also terrible.
sherwood needs to get a grip and bloody quick his subs have cost a lot of points and he needs to learn quick
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Just seen the 3rd again. Guzan. Just take everything out!
Exactly, he's trying to catch it off Dyers head rather than punch the fucking thing away.
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I don't blame Sherwood, I blame the players. Doesn't matter what tactics or formation you use, to bottle it from 0-2 and cruising is 100% down to them. We need a proper captain because every time we find ourselves in a pickle and needing some leadership we just find 11 shrinking violets. Absolutely pathetic.
Nonsense. When they put Mahrez in the middle with two wide man, and the left back in particular bombing on - and you're 2-0 up - you put the players on the pitch who can cope with that.
Ayew, Gestede and Sinclair, with Grealish alongside a tiring Westwood and Sanchez. That's not what you do. That really isn't.
Exactly you bring on one or two at least of Richards/Clark/Veretout block up the midfield and frustrate the shit out of them. And for once maybe even leave Gabby on as a pace outlet and to stop their defenders pushing up too much. Sherwood seems to want to go shit or bust every game and you can't do that in the PL, as is being proven. I do agree that some of the players lack bottle and fight though. Westwood and Grealish looked like they had given up after their first goal and Leicester were first to every loose ball for the last 30. I just wish I had the gumption to start betting on my hunches with Villa cos as soon as the first Leicester goal went in I just knew we'd throe it away.
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Gil was running the game ! Ayew don't even resemble a footballer , joke sub
Gil was tired, him being substituted wasn't a problem it's not subbing him for a midfielder that was the problem.
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What I don't get is when he tells Wilkins he's - frankly bizarrely - thinking of taking Gil off and bringing Ayew on, what the fuck does Wilkins say?
"great idea, Tim"?
Really?
The players have their share of the blame but Sherwood scares me to death with some of these shit decisions.
I was far from convinced by him before the season started but am less so, week on week.
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What I don't get is that Ray Wilkins has coached at the top level for years. Why the hell can't he see these boneheaded decisions and amateur tactics are costing us?
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Gil was running the game ! Ayew don't even resemble a footballer , joke sub
Gil was tired, him being substituted wasn't a problem it's not subbing him for a midfielder that was the problem.
the only thing I can think of it he put on a player lacking a bit of confidence at a point in the game where he would be under a little less pressure. I realize I am massively clutching at straws with that theory.
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This sums up dim Tim perfectly: https://vine.co/v/eFDqThpYEQO
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That was a sickener. Terrible decision making from Sherwood.
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Arrogant management from Sherwood. Anybody winning 2-0 closes the game out, not bring on more attacking players. Not too worried about the team.
The manager has a lot of work to do on his own performance to win me back.
He is now in the "meh" category for me.
I've always liked Ranieri.
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What I don't get is that Ray Wilkins has coached at the top level for years. Why the hell can't he see these boneheaded decisions and amateur tactics are costing us?
Because he's the assistant and the manager can change to go with it or as is his right go with his own thinking. When you are assisting Ancelotti the manager's decisions are generally sound and on a very different advanced level. Fact remains he's still just the assistant.
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I would have taken Gil off too - actually before the goal, so fair play to him on that front
there wasn't one sub he could have done that was "right" - but there were loads of options. Hutton for Gil and Bacuna to stop Schlupp's runs; Veretout to strengthen the midfield. Clark to play left back with Amavi on front. A back three.
We were fucking two nil up, and we knew what Leicester were going to do because they'd already started doing it as soon as the second half started.
The subs were so weird that it makes me question him more than I've done before. It was shocking stuff.
It's not like we're even bringing on forwards who we know are in form and can nick a third. They've both been awful so far. PUT A FUCKING BODY IN MIDFIELD MAN!
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he's blaming player errors, not his own tactics!
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its weird how some one you once worshipped can
become someone you really really despise
step forward Dwight fucking yorke
that stupid gawpy grin for starters
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Gil was running the game ! Ayew don't even resemble a footballer , joke sub
Gil was tired, him being substituted wasn't a problem it's not subbing him for a midfielder that was the problem.
the only thing I can think of it he put on a player lacking a bit of confidence at a point in the game where he would be under a little less pressure. I realize I am massively clutching at straws with that theory.
We were absolutely under the cosh and, seconds before, had scored against the run of play. That interpretation doesn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny.
It was proper brainlessness. And not for the first time.
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Gil was running the game ! Ayew don't even resemble a footballer , joke sub
Gil was tired, him being substituted wasn't a problem it's not subbing him for a midfielder that was the problem.
Absolutely right Paul. Why on gods earth did our manager not bring on Jordan Veretout....why?. Tim Sherwood lost us this game and what influence does Wilkins have? None it would seem.
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its weird how some one you once worshipped can
become someone you really really despise
step forward Dwight fucking yorke
that stupid gawpy grin for starters
he's speaking sense though.
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What I don't get is when he tells Wilkins he's - frankly bizarrely - thinking of taking Gil off and bringing Ayew on, what the fuck does Wilkins say?
"great idea, Tim"?
Really?
The players have their share of the blame but Sherwood scares me to death with some of these shit decisions.
I was far from convinced by him before the season started but am less so, week on week.
Wilkins must be like the assistant manager from the Mike Bassett film, otherwise He'd give Tim a clip round his head to knock some sense in to him.
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Sherwood's subs weren't naive, they were incompetent beyond belief. Leicester had already got the upper hand when we went 2-0, the midfield was already looking ragged. Of course Mahre was going to play well. We gave up the ball so willingly and allowed him to run at tired midfielders. What else was going to happen?
Sherwood made two big mistakes. 1) Playing a very open and risky team selection with only two specialist central midfielder in the 11 and few options on the bench if change were needed 2) Not playing what few cards he had given himself. Stupid.
Like opposition managers before him, Ranieri must think it's christmas. How fkin easy was that ?
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we've shuffled the pack big time over the summer and at the moment, we're still a busted flush. This needs sorting quickly Tim.
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he's blaming player errors, not his own tactics!
It's worrying. It's not as if they scored from their only three chances. They were coming at us wave after wave.
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What I don't get is that Ray Wilkins has coached at the top level for years. Why the hell can't he see these boneheaded decisions and amateur tactics are costing us?
Because he's the assistant and the manager can change to go with it or as is his right go with his own thinking. When you are assisting Ancelotti the manager's decisions are generally sound and on a very different advanced level. Fact remains he's still just the assistant.
I understand that, but why have an assistant otherwise? Even if you take all the responsibility, an assistant is there to run ideas past, to back you up, or to see things you can't in the heat of the moment. I'm not expecting him to push Sherwood into his seat, but what the hell do they say to each other?
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1st half was OK. Despite Sherwood's clusterfuck subs, those players should be capable of holding out at 2-0 up. Sanchez played like a clown and grealish disappeared. And, another rush of blood to the head from guzan.
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Gil was running the game ! Ayew don't even resemble a footballer , joke sub
Gil was tired, him being substituted wasn't a problem it's not subbing him for a midfielder that was the problem.
the only thing I can think of it he put on a player lacking a bit of confidence at a point in the game where he would be under a little less pressure. I realize I am massively clutching at straws with that theory.
That's a good theory. All as I can add is that Ayew must be pretty special in training and goes to pieces when on the pitch. He looked to me like someone who could barely run. Shit control, shit positioning, easily knocked off the ball. I fear we've bought a dud, a 'George Weah's' brother/cousin in the making if there is to be another one.
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Fucking fed up of this garbage week after week. That result will knock the stuffing out of a young inexperienced team and will set the tone for the season I'm afraid.
Bacuna was a disgrace in the last 20 and Westwood and Sanchez just couldn't get a grip
Feels to me that imploding is now in our dna. We've shown we've got the attacking threat but no bottle and I'm pretty sure now it'll be a relegation fight again
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Sherwood still doesn't get it. He's just said the game was won at 2-0. His complete arrogance and stupidity to bring on Ayew to get some game time is unmatched. He blames the players for giving the ball away but fails to understand it was his tactics that put unnecessary pressure on them to begin with.
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Totally understood Gill going off but thought Clark into midfield would have made it tight
But bacuna again ...sorry but Hutton must start .......he is totally clueless ....today he was worse than against sunderland
How on earth Guzan failed to get to the ball on the 3rd is beyond mw
At 2-0 I was thinking how good and solid we looked but then most the players on the pitch simply stopped doing what they had for 60 minutes
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Sanchez and Grealish were completely non-existant in the second half.
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Wilkins might have said no but Tim overruled?
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Tim's already sounding a bit like TSM2
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Hutton's not the greatest fullback we've had but he's a damn sight more solid than that fucker Bacuna.
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If we take a step back there are positives. They are in great form and yet we could easily have had four goals. That first half performance grew into a very good one. And two amazing goals. We've got three very talented attacking midfielders (maybe four with Veretout). I think Richards is doing really well and Lescott looked good though he did fuck up for the corner they scored from.
But the negatives are as expressed elsewhere. Such a needless defeat.
I never want to hear villa fans singing Ole again. Especially not against Leicester.
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he's blaming player errors, not his own tactics!
Then the Guy is as fukin ddelusional as Lambert became, we go again
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This sums up why I've stopped bothering with the Villa like I used to. Thank goodness I've stopped checking the score until the end. We are the new Wigan and one year we will go down. Difference is that Wigan were a club that did well to play at that level and can be proud of staying up so long. Well done to Swansea, Stoke, Palace, Leicester, Southampton etc because you have had none of the massive advantages Villa have had - money, stadium, training facilities, fan base - but you've built a solid team which will most likely finish above the mighty Villa.
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If we take a step back there are positives. They are in great form and yet we could easily have had four goals. That first half performance grew into a very good one. And two amazing goals. We've got three very talented attacking midfielders (maybe four with Veretout). I think Richards is doing really well and Lescott looked good though he did fuck up for the corner they scored from.
But the negatives are as expressed elsewhere. Such a needless defeat.
I never want to hear villa fans singing Ole again. Especially not against Leicester.
I agree we should have had 4 goals. It's probably the only way we could have won this game as we were spent after 60 mins.
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Aston Villa manager Tim Sherwood, speaking to BBC Sport: " I’ve never felt this bad. Ever. There was a lot of bad play there in the last half hour. The only way you can stop the momentum is to stop the opposition. We turned it over stupidly.
"What can I say? I’m gutted for everyone who’s associated with the football club. We have to stop letting in soft goals.Who cares if we played well? We lost. Totally lost.
"The players are as disappointed as I am. They are a good group.We just have to stop the errors - sooner rather than later. We’ve got two big derbies coming up, so we’ll make sure we are right for them.We played some good stuff but we've come away with nothing."
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What I don't get is when he tells Wilkins he's - frankly bizarrely - thinking of taking Gil off and bringing Ayew on, what the fuck does Wilkins say?
"great idea, Tim"?
Really?
The players have their share of the blame but Sherwood scares me to death with some of these shit decisions.
I was far from convinced by him before the season started but am less so, week on week.
I thought we were getting Wilkins. It looks more like we ended up with Phil Neal.
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It was won at 2-0. Shut up shop, bore them to tears, waste time, make some subs. We had 27 minutes to see out and hold on. Shouldn't be too difficult.
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This sums up why I've stopped bothering with the Villa like I used to. Thank goodness I've stopped checking the score until the end. We are the new Wigan and one year we will go down. Difference is that Wigan were a club that did well to play at that level and can be proud of staying up so long. Well done to Swansea, Stoke, Palace, Leicester, Southampton etc because you have had none of the massive advantages Villa have had - money, stadium, training facilities, fan base - but you've built a solid team which will most likely finish above the mighty Villa.
They've all made solid managerial appointments mate.
We've gone from a relegated manager, to someone out of football with heart problems, to someone with 1 yr experience with a small club in the top flight, to someone with 6 months experience in the top flight.
For a club who have been in the top flight for a long time, with a huge stadium, good income, big fan base and fantastic honours list we don't half act like a fucking two bob club sometimes with how low we aim on the managerial tree.
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Sanchez and Grealish were completely non-existant in the second half.
I thought Grealish was one of the worst out there second half. Casually gave the ball away countless times and as for Bacuna, the less said the better.
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Sherwood still doesn't get it. He's just said the game was won at 2-0. His complete arrogance and stupidity to bring on Ayew to get some game time is unmatched. He blames the players for giving the ball away but fails to understand it was his tactics that put unnecessary pressure on them to begin with.
If that is what he genuinely believes then the same thing will happen again and again.
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Very poor retention of the ball in the 2nd half.
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If Carlos Sanchez was a better player we'd have win. And obviously if Sherwood was a better manager we'd have won.
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Aston Villa manager Tim Sherwood, speaking to BBC Sport: " I’ve never felt this bad. Ever. There was a lot of bad play there in the last half hour. The only way you can stop the momentum is to stop the opposition. We turned it over stupidly.
"What can I say? I’m gutted for everyone who’s associated with the football club. We have to stop letting in soft goals.Who cares if we played well? We lost. Totally lost.
"The players are as disappointed as I am. They are a good group.We just have to stop the errors - sooner rather than later. We’ve got two big derbies coming up, so we’ll make sure we are right for them.We played some good stuff but we've come away with nothing."
Tip for you here Tim. Don't play Bacuna in the local derbies he's a fucking headless pansy. We need to be solid in them and give nothing away.
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Pity Gana was injured today. I'd certainly play Okore at RB when fit - those 2 will make us a lot more solid. Nevertheless, he should have brought Clark or Veretout on for Gil not Ayew.
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I am starting to have doubts about Sherwood. Well, it is one doubt really. His ego gets in the way of his judgement. It is very common for people who make bad mistakes on a regular basis to do so because they think wrongly that they have innate good judgement. There is no such thing. The facts are the facts, the circumstances are the circumstances. A decision is not a good decision just because you made it. I think what Tim Sherwood needs more than anything else is a massive dose of humility. I suspect Wilkins does try to tell him but he ignores him. If Sherwood wants to think about just one thing, he should think about all the flannel he came out with when he came to us about "a defeatist mentality" and "constant relegation battles". You are the man in charge now Mr Sherwood, show us how you are better than managers of the recent past. Shut your gob, stop looking for Redknapp style media arse licking and make the simple basic things a formality.
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The midfield two completely lost it second half, in so much as daft errors cost us yet again. Far too deep and let them run off them time and again second half.
Momentum is huge. They play 100 mph football, back to front as quick as they can, they're on a great run, so don't gift them space or gift them easy goals.
Absolutely chucked it away.
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The midfield two did lose it. But they needed help. They were knackered.
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Thing is the substitutions did kill us, but we were faltering before that. There was some really poor play from Sanchez, Bacuna and Guzan in particular.
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As soon as the ole's start we are fucked. At the time all I could think of was when we were 4-1 up against the same team and drew. At least we got a point that time.
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This is relegation form ,infact we have been shit since the Liverpool cup win.
Bacuna what the actual fuck is he doing in the team , he looks dodgy every time the ball is near him.He is an accident waiting to happen he is only in ahead of Hutton as Time wants attacking full backs ..well news flash he is offering fuck all attacking wise as well.
Guzan ...disgraceful you simply as a keeper have to either take everyone out and win the ball or stay on your line.Now maybe ,maybe if the striker is like Benteke or lukaku a tall big lump good in the air then maybe you could of gotten unlucky ..but 5ft 5 Dyer ..jog the fuck on .not acceptable not even close.
Sherwood first he takes off Sanchez and lose's game to Palace and now repeats the feat here.Ayew was an awful sub he is clearly not up to speed yet and a game being played as this one was ,wasn't the time to give him game time.The individual mistakes he commented on after the game should include his choice and timing of subs.
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Whilst I lay the blame of defeat with Sherwood, he's also the guy who sorted the tactics and team for the first half. He need to quickly learn how to change things appropriately.
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The midfield two did lose it. But they needed help. They were knackered.
But I want to know why they're so knackered. Look at Leicester's players. They ran all game and they did plenty of ball chasing in the first half. There's no excuse for our lack of fitness.
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The game was entertaining and played with heart and skill, but we fuc*ed it up from the 0-2, and it is all fault of Sherwood and the always more pathetic Guzan.
It is incredible how Sherwood is tactically inept. Ranieri, that is not Pep Guardiola, but knows the ABC of football, destroyed him.
With his crazy substitutions TS gave the key of the midfield to Leicester.
Ayew for Gil was abysmal. Ayew is useful like an ass without hole or a third tit for a woman. He got the wrong sport, he can not even keep the ball.
It is quite clear that the 16 millions spent for him and Gestede have been thrown away.
And we needed a decent keeper.
Anyhow, with Gil, Grealish and Adama (plus Guana and Veretout) we have a lot of talent in the midfield, and if only Sherwood improved we can still do something good. At least we play an entertaining, passing football, much better than under Lambert.....
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The midfield two did lose it. But they needed help. They were knackered.
Felt sorry for Westwood and Sanchez in the last 25 minutes. Ayew, Grealish and Sinclair gave them zero support and were the worst culprits at giving the ball away. A change of shape to 4-5-1 and better cover for the full backs and it was won. It looked more like 4-2-4 the amount of space they had in our half.
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In Westwood and Sanchez we should have had enough midfield cover, they were both poor second half.
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Similarities with Sunderland really; same result of last season, but achieved in a completely different manner.
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I must of done something terrible in a previous life for this keep on happening
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The midfield two did lose it. But they needed help. They were knackered.
Felt sorry for Westwood and Sanchez in the last 25 minutes. Ayew, Grealish and Sinclair gave them zero support and were the worst culprits at giving the ball away. A change of shape to 4-5-1 and better cover for the full backs and it was won. It looked more like 4-2-4 the amount of space they had in our half.
You only missed out Amavi who seems to have a habit of having one brilliant first half followed by a second where he looks like a headless chicken. And people wonder why Sanchez and Westwood looked knackered.
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When they got the first goal back you knew we were in trouble. I think we have some nice creativity now but need to learn when to shut up shop. Both manager and players
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That was a comically shit collapse. All started by us fannying around in defence with Villa fans singing "we're taking the piss". Sometimes you just have too hoof it. Instead we never cleared it, they made it 2-1 and we fell apart.
Seems a lot longer driving back than it did going!
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In Westwood and Sanchez we should have had enough midfield cover, they were both poor second half.
hasn't Sanchez just returned from the U.S.? - first half, Richards, Lescott and Sanchez were tight as a duck's arse. Leicester were going nowhere.
Second half, Veretout should have come in to stiffen the CMF; and Bacuna was pasted so Hutton should have come on earlier, with Bacuna moving upfield.
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Really do think we need to have Hutton back in, perverse as it sounds after five years of miserable football but we need a bit more solidity.
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It's even more frustrating because we actually have the basis of an outfit to be proud of. Today we'd done the hard work with 2 fantastic goals and then we (yet again) concede bog standard Sunday league goals. You'd be hard pressed to find another team in the league that would do that from the position we were in.
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The game was entertaining and played with heart and skill, but we fuc*ed it up from the 0-2, and it is all fault of Sherwood and the always more pathetic Guzan.
It is incredible how Sherwood is tactically inept. Ranieri, that is not Pep Guardiola, but knows the ABC of football, destroyed him.
With his crazy substitutions TS gave the key of the midfield to Leicester.
Ayew for Gil was abysmal. Ayew is useful like an ass without hole or a third tit for a woman. He got the wrong sport, he can not even keep the ball.
It is quite clear that the 16 millions spent for him and Gestede have been thrown away.
And we needed a decent keeper.
Anyhow, with Gil, Grealish and Adama (plus Guana and Veretout) we have a lot of talent in the midfield, and if only Sherwood improved we can still do something good. At least we play an entertaining, passing football, much better than under Lambert.....
Agree with everything Archie except am I alone in being somewhat intrigued at the thought of a third tit?
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I just didn't understand the sub just after we went 2-0 up. For a midfielder to see the game out then fine, but for another striker? I think today was a learning curve for Timbo.
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I'm afraid that we have seen it all before. As soon as the first goal went in I feared the worst. As daft as it sounds I thought Richards had a very good game and I like Lescott and Amavi. He can't play Grealish & Gill in the same side as we are not strong enough to carry both.
In view of all the players that we have bought I am amazed Sanchez & Bacuna are in the side. I keep hearing that Sanchez is a good player but every time I see him he gives the ball away time and time again. Bacuna was a liability today and is simply not good enough again giving cheap possession away throughout the game.
However, the biggest worry for me is the fact that we have spent the best part of 20 million quid on 2 strikers and they cannot get in the team ahead of Gabby. I know he set up the second goal but he is not good enough. He didn't hold the ball up and when he did get into a great position early on to put Sinclair in for a tap-in, but his final ball was poor as is so often the case.
Gestede looks like an impact player to bring on late in the game when you want to go route one. Ayew looks terrible...I'm not sure what he does. He lacks pace & physical presence. I can't believe Swansea got his brother for free!
Another relegation battle for us again I'm afraid.
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That was a comically shit collapse. All started by us fannying around in defence with Villa fans singing "we're taking the piss". Sometimes you just have too hoof it. Instead we never cleared it, they made it 2-1 and we fell apart.
My anger was such and is still as such that I fail to see any comedy from the way it happened.
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The midfield two did lose it. But they needed help. They were knackered.
Felt sorry for Westwood and Sanchez in the last 25 minutes. Ayew, Grealish and Sinclair gave them zero support and were the worst culprits at giving the ball away. A change of shape to 4-5-1 and better cover for the full backs and it was won. It looked more like 4-2-4 the amount of space they had in our half.
You only missed out Amavi who seems to have a habit of having one brilliant first half followed by a second where he looks like a headless chicken. And people wonder why Sanchez and Westwood looked knackered.
There were a couple times Amavi had me like :o
Everyone out there was hit and miss today. I really hope we're not in trouble, I can't handle another uncontrollable downward spiral.
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Wanted Veretout on for Gabby , not Gestede.
Poor subs, yes - but those wanting Sherwood out already need to just hold on a minute.
A lot of players really let us down in that last 20 minutes, especially Bacuna and Guzan. Neither should be near the first team - Hutton MUST play against Albion next week.
Gutted, absolutely gutted.
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Maybe shows that, early as it is, how important our missing number 8 was. Not sure we'd have given up the midfield with him there.
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Players have to take responsibility for letting their opposition run off them. Westwood and Sanchez cost us the game by consistently failing to pick runners up, while being sat as deep as they were.
That said if Lescott and Bacuna just play a percentage ball, then the first goal doesn't come about. You're 20 minutes from the end, slow it down, break it up, especially against a team whose style is all about momentum.
They're are lots of positives, genuinely, but it's frustrating that individual mistakes and our own dippyness is costing us.
I'm not sure I agreed with the subs, Gabby being the main one. With him off, you had no pace up there.
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I thought our two center backs performed well. Gil too until he tired. Gabby the pass for the Gil goal apart did nothing of note.
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I think we're in for more relegation fight drama this season based on what we've seen so far. Throw games like that away and we'll deserve to be in the shit, too.
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Agree with everything Archie except am I alone in being somewhat intrigued at the thought of a third tit?
Nice touch, mate! ;D
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I think our collapse started with Lescott dithering on the ball for their 1st goal. He had about 3 occasions to clear the ball but ended up giving it away and the rest is history. It's a shame because that first half I was think of just how well our defence looked.
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The problem was arrogance from the players & manager who thought the game was won at 2-0.
Sherwood should have known that he just needed to kill the game & take the score as it was. Naive doesn't come close to describing it.
Bacuna is not a right back, Gil (despite a nice goal) was giving him fuck all cover. Vertout for Gil was the first sub, Hutton for Bacuna the second sub & Clarke for Grealish the third. Game won.
Guzan should have floored Dyer.
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Gana would have made a huge difference.
Leicester are so Mickey Mouse with those clappers and what is it with their camp accent?
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I think our collapse started with Lescott dithering on the ball for their 1st goal. He had about 3 occasions to clear the ball but ended up giving it away and the rest is history. It's a shame because that first half I was think of just how well our defence looked.
Just clear the damned ball.
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I think the projection for things going forward will depend on how people feel about the team's ability to cut out the idiocy going forward. It's already cost us points in 3 out of our 5 games (and nearly did against Bournemouth, thinking about Clark's foul at the end of the first half.) If we make progress there, there's enough talent to keep away from relegation. If not though, we'll be in the shit.
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fitness cost us
pure and simple
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Agree with everything Archie except am I alone in being somewhat intrigued at the thought of a third tit?
Nice touch, mate! ;D
I would be baffled as to what to do with it.
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Special mention to Guzan, what a pathetic incident at the end which cost us a point. How he convinced so many he's a top keeper remains one of life's great mysteries. The sooner we're rid of him the better.
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Special mention to Guzan, what a pathetic incident at the end which cost us a point. How he convinced so many he's a top keeper remains one of life's great mysteries. The sooner we're rid of him the better.
Agreed, he just doesn't inspire any confidence whatsoever.
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fitness cost us
pure and simple
Is my opinion too.So many sloppy, individual errors borne out of tiredness.This is inexcusable .
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Sherwood knows Guzan is in the grip of a massive loss of form and confidence yet he still picks him. I assume that at two nil up he wants to play God and send Ayew on to get a third and snap out of his run of bad form. It is just managerial arrogance.
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Special mention to Guzan, what a pathetic incident at the end which cost us a point. How he convinced so many he's a top keeper remains one of life's great mysteries. The sooner we're rid of him the better.
Agreed, he just doesn't inspire any confidence whatsoever.
I love Brad but that attempt to punch the ball away was embarrassing. He didn't even get close to it.
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Guzan, Westwood, Bacuna. Not good enough for a club trying to move forward. Very poor last 20 minutes from pretty much all of them.
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Chuffing hell, I am fuming. You know, this messageboard sees a lot of fans from of different ages, from different places, different countries and with different worries in life come together. Most of us don't know each other yet you know that for the entirety of the second half we were all to a man and woman sat there screaming for a defensive change. How can the manager not see the problem? Leicester won in a very English way, with the sort of style that has seen European teams overwhelmed in Europe over the years. They saw that we were better technically and just hounded us into submission using high energy and pace, we didn't respond. Even before Gil put us 2-0 up I thought we needed a change, Hutton for one of the front four would have done, push Bacuna up, allow someone to pick up Mahrez full time.
But, no. Tim send on Ayew when we are 2-0 up and then Gestede at 2-1. Madness!
I promised myself at half time that whatever happened second half I wouldn't forget the fact that we clearly have some wonderful footballers in Grealish, Gil, Amavi, Westwood, Sanchez et all. It's hard right now but they really were fantastic first half. Grealish will learn from this, he barely had a kick second half. Sanchez looks immense for 60 or 70 minutes and then completely shagged for 20 or 30. Not sure how that 'adjustment' to the pace of the English game is still happening.
Sherwood lost us the game though. And sadly in doing so, he has attracted a lot of negative attention for Ayew. I can see Villa fans on the internet claiming it's his fault. It wasn't. He should NEVER have been sent on in that situation.
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fitness cost us
pure and simple
Is my opinion too.So many sloppy, individual errors borne out of tiredness.This is inexcusable .
It's early in the season. Yes we've bought in players who were on a different seasonal cycle with the continental leagues starting in September, but how can so many look so knackered now? Especially as we've just come out of an international break!!!
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Guzan, Westwood, Bacuna. Not good enough for a club trying to move forward. Very poor last 20 minutes from pretty much all of them.
Westwood was one of our best players.
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meet the new boss....
southampton shit
burnley shit
arsenal disgrace
bournemouth rode our luck
man ure tactically wrong
palace tactically wrong
sunderland tactically wrong
leicester tactically wrong
i think the bloke is a chancer and what the fuck is wilkins doing?
im a halfwit and even i know bacuna is shit and not a full back yet he persists
fuck me the bitters, the heathens then sturke he needs to fucking shape up
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Agree with everything, we were not good.
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One final observation, the front 6 today were all here pre-Sherwood. You can see how well they can play together, which makes a mockery of Lambert. In fact, they were all here at the end of last season yet we have lost 3 of the regular front 6 since then (Benteke, Delph, Cleverley) and one other (N'Zogbia) has been ostracised. You can see how well we can attack, and that makes a mockery of Lambert as much as the second half collapse makes a mockery of Sherwood. We just can't put defence and attack together to make a cohesive team.
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Agreed x2 SH. Guzan is a poor player.
There is a rush to put the knife into Sherwood and over analyse his tactics; players have an individual responsibility; Lescott and Guzan are as much to blame today, as Amavi and Guzan at Palace, as any substitution by Sherwood.
You cannot carry these errors with the regularity we do. Play the percentage ball and we win the game, Lescott doesn't and we give the ball away from which they score.
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Special mention to Guzan, what a pathetic incident at the end which cost us a point. How he convinced so many he's a top keeper remains one of life's great mysteries. The sooner we're rid of him the better.
Agreed, he just doesn't inspire any confidence whatsoever.
I love Brad but that attempt to punch the ball away was embarrassing. He didn't even get close to it.
Quite. I strongly disagreed (and still do) with the assertion that he cost us goals earlier in the season, but that one was fully down to him. Why he thought that Richards and Lescott needed him there as well to deal with 5 ft 5 Nathan Dyer is beyond me.
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One thing's for sure - there are two huge games now to kickstart the season. You get Ayew or Gestede scoring in either and it could be the start of something impressive. But Sherwood has to get a ninety minute performance out of the team in one if not both, because our confidence at the moment must be heading quickly in the wrong direction.
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That last 30 mins after Gil went off is up there as the worst villa performance I've seen. And I'm not over dramatising matters it was totally abysmal .
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and what the fuck is going on with our fitness?
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It's depressing to think that we spent Ł50 million+ this summer and Westwood and Gabby are still first team regulars.
Gabby was decent once, but he's too fat and comfortable now.
Players like Westwood should be nowhere near the Aston Villa starting XI.
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Guzan has done a Carson. It's sad but we've seen plenty of evidence.
Bacuna is awful. Technically, he's our worst player. He's truly hopeless at right back.
The manager to me still looks like the chancer I thought he was when he came here. He can spot a player, can talk a good match, and seems to inspire players quite well.
He just hasn't got a clue tactically. He either does nothing when we are obviously getting our arses handed to us, or he does batshit mental stuff like today.
It is going to take time for the players to gel properly, yes, but Sherwood keeps making the same mistakes. I'd like to think we won't struggle this season, and I am not saying we will - the problem is, I haven't seen anything yet this season to suggest we won't.
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Maybe shows that, early as it is, how important our missing number 8 was. Not sure we'd have given up the midfield with him there.
He's our best midfielder by a mile. Sanchez is good for an hour, needs to be routinely subbed in games for now. You can see when he's 'gone' I think - he seems to stop seeing simple passes and starts dwelling on the ball and getting us into trouble. If we can get Veretout contributing and Gana fit we'll have a decent midfield with options.
For all his sins Gabby occupies centre-halves and brings a structure that Sinclair, Adama, Jack and Gil can work around, and thankfully there appears to be a goal threat emerging from those players.
Okore/Ilori/Crespo at right-back will hopefully be looked at. I still like Bacuna more than Hutton, I can just see him losing it in the derbies.
Fuck knows what we're gonna do about Guzan.
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Oh, and Tim needs to go through his sub options pre-game with the coaching staff, so they've got ideas and principles to go to given certain situations. Maybe they do this but it doesn't look like it.
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If I was being rational about this, I would say that Leicester are just the latest team to benefit from the early silly-season momentum. We play this game in January and we probably win it. I mean, they won't finish in a European place and Chelsea won't finish bottom half.
But the way in which we rolled over from the get-go in the second half defies rationality. The subs made it worse and they scented blood. It was just an awful afternoon from five pm onwards. It's fair to say Sunday dinner was a bit of a washout in our house.
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I quite like the idea of a third tit
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Seriously why the fuck is anyone slagging off Westwood above other players after that? Easy target? He was a huge part of our excellent first half performance and it's not really his fault he was in a midfield that got massively overrun in the second half while Sanchez was totally fucked.
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Guzan, Westwood, Bacuna. Not good enough for a club trying to move forward. Very poor last 20 minutes from pretty much all of them.
I was gutted to see them stay at the club this summer when I thought we'd be finally rid of them. They should not be part of our club's future.
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Seriously why the fuck is anyone slagging off Westwood above other players after that? Easy target? He was a huge part of our excellent first half performance and it's not really his fault he was in a midfield that got massively overrun in the second half while Sanchez was totally fucked.
Part of the reason might be that he's one of the familiar faces now, been part of some real shambolic performances for years now and when you see his face again, after you've just fucked up again, you vent and rage and pick him as a target. If he was a new signing we would probably be looking for positives from some of his play, like those nice 5 yard sideways balls he excels in.
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Special mention to Guzan, what a pathetic incident at the end which cost us a point. How he convinced so many he's a top keeper remains one of life's great mysteries. The sooner we're rid of him the better.
He is very much part of the losing culture that has become ingrained at the club. He makes me nervous every time the ball goes near him.
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You can go out and bet your mortgage that we will beat Small Heath. It's what we now do. We win games with no points at stake, everybody says whoopee, we beat the noses and our relentless pursuit of relegation goes on apace. We have completely lost the ability to play league football. Every game is a cup tie. Shit or bust. Wow, we are in the draw for the next round. Yes and we are falling through the Premiership trapdoor so fast we will not touch the sides. Assemble points, achieve security, build for the future. This is a make or break season for Villa and the signs are not good.
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I'd bring Hutton back in for Bacuna.
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Just got completely overrun in midfield in the second half, we were lucky to even go 2 up as Leocester had more energy and wer putting us on the back foot more and more. Should have bought Veretout on for Gil and Hutton for Bacuna to give us more solidty through the middle and at the back. What not to do is leave two midfielders with 4 forwards on the pitch.
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The manager to me still looks like the chancer I thought he was when he came here.
Exactly how I described him as well. My only question was whether he'd be a lucky chancer or not. It would appear that his luck is fading.
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Brian Clough bought Peter Shilton on the basis that a decent keeper gets you ten points a season. I make it four Guzan has had a hand in costing us so far, in five games.
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Special mention to Guzan, what a pathetic incident at the end which cost us a point. How he convinced so many he's a top keeper remains one of life's great mysteries. The sooner we're rid of him the better.
He is very much part of the losing culture that has become ingrained at the club. He makes me nervous every time the ball goes near him.
That's what I'm most nervous about. The losing mentality. I thought we had gotten enough fresh faces to put that to bed but it seems like we just can't do ourselves a favor.
Soon enough the pressure is going to mount on these new young players.
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Positives? I think we have the kernel of a good squad for an emergency manager to make use of in the run in.
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Guzan, Westwood, Bacuna. Not good enough for a club trying to move forward. Very poor last 20 minutes from pretty much all of them.
I was gutted to see them stay at the club this summer when I thought we'd be finally rid of them. They should not be part of our club's future.
agree with this
barring benteke you only have to look where our players end up
weimann at derby
herd at chesterfield
lowton at burnley
bannan at bolton
tonev wherever
luna wherever
bacuna, guzan, baker, bennett, westwood all mediocre and we cant keep struggling year in year out
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Special mention to Guzan, what a pathetic incident at the end which cost us a point. How he convinced so many he's a top keeper remains one of life's great mysteries. The sooner we're rid of him the better.
Only three new players started today, and only one of those can be described as 'young'.
Of course Ayew will get a lot of the blame, Gestede too to a lesser extent. That's the manager's fault. Richardson and Hutton would have been much better substitutions.
He is very much part of the losing culture that has become ingrained at the club. He makes me nervous every time the ball goes near him.
That's what I'm most nervous about. The losing mentality. I thought we had gotten enough fresh faces to put that to bed but it seems like we just can't do ourselves a favor.
Soon enough the pressure is going to mount on these new young players.
Only three new players started today, two are former League winners and the other one is the only one who can be classed as young.
Ayew and Gestede coming on will get a lot of criticism but it's the manager's fault, not theirs.
That game could define Ayew's Villa career, he needs a lot of character to bounce back from that. Sherwood has to take complete responsibility for shoving him into that situation.
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What was Guzan doing there when there were two defenders around to deal with Dyer?
Jeez I am depressed. Was hoping for a good send off as I disappear to India for couple of weeks but there we are.....
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Thought we are struggling even before our second goal. Both full backs hopeless, seriously when will Amavi learn that repeatedly taking on a player inside our half or kicking his opponent down next to the corner flag is a good idea. If Bacuna went to clear the second goal with his left foot he would have cleared it, gutless.
We were calling out for a third player to come into midfield. Sanchez was out on his feet after 70, playing him and Westwood together in a two man midfield is asking for trouble but manager somehow was watching another game.
Two brilliant goals but no gumption or leadership throughout the side. We are a soft touch and other teams know it. Special mention to Ayew who must be adopted as he doesn't look related to a footballer
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Maybe shows that, early as it is, how important our missing number 8 was. Not sure we'd have given up the midfield with him there.
He's our best midfielder by a mile. Sanchez is good for an hour, needs to be routinely subbed in games for now. You can see when he's 'gone' I think - he seems to stop seeing simple passes and starts dwelling on the ball and getting us into trouble. If we can get Veretout contributing and Gana fit we'll have a decent midfield with options.
For all his sins Gabby occupies centre-halves and brings a structure that Sinclair, Adama, Jack and Gil can work around, and thankfully there appears to be a goal threat emerging from those players.
Okore/Ilori/Crespo at right-back will hopefully be looked at. I still like Bacuna more than Hutton, I can just see him losing it in the derbies.
Fuck knows what we're gonna do about Guzan.
Guzan needs replacing in January. He should have been chopped in the Summer. Awful keeper who should be nowhere near a premier league starting 11.
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I don't entirely blame Guzan for his own collapsing standards. As I said elsewhere Tim has fucked up there as well by fatally undermining a player we are now forced to rely on because of the lack of alternatives. He's not great but a good pro and has been a rare positive many a time over the last few shitty years. But he plays in a position where confidence is all important and he's only going to go one way now under TS, unfortunately,
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Thought we are struggling even before our second goal. Both full backs hopeless, seriously when will Amavi learn that repeatedly taking on a player inside our half or kicking his opponent down next to the corner flag is a good idea. If Bacuna went to clear the second goal with his left foot he would have cleared it, gutless.
We were calling out for a third player to come into midfield. Sanchez was out on his feet after 70, playing him and Westwood together in a two man midfield is asking for trouble but manager somehow was watching another game.
Two brilliant goals but no gumption or leadership throughout the side. We are a soft touch and other teams know it. Special mention to Ayew who must be adopted as he doesn't look related to a footballer
We were definitely struggling. Our second was completely against the run of play.
That substitution just defied belief.
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Another thumbs up for the third tit.
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In half an hour Sherwood has destroyed what remained of Ayew's career. I cannot see him recovering from that. It was not his fault but he will inevitably carry the can. Ayew will finish up with Tonev at Rowzed FC.
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Another thumbs up for the third tit.
No two tits are enough to deal with.
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In half an hour Sherwood has destroyed what remained of Ayew's career. I cannot see him recovering from that. It was not his fault but he will inevitably carry the can. Ayew will finish up with Tonev at Rowzed FC.
To be fair he was pretty awful.
I mean.. the saggy basketball shorts and lackadaisical effort. Couldn't trap a ball or hold up play to garner support. I wouldn't trust him up top alone, might as well give that to Sinclair. Not to mention with Adama and Gueye fit can you make an argument he'd be frozen out?
Lorient is probably still counting their money. How on earth was his fee so high?
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Is Ayew getting a run out for the reserves? Seems like he needs fitness and confidence.
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Thought we are struggling even before our second goal. Both full backs hopeless, seriously when will Amavi learn that repeatedly taking on a player inside our half or kicking his opponent down next to the corner flag is a good idea. If Bacuna went to clear the second goal with his left foot he would have cleared it, gutless.
We were calling out for a third player to come into midfield. Sanchez was out on his feet after 70, playing him and Westwood together in a two man midfield is asking for trouble but manager somehow was watching another game.
Two brilliant goals but no gumption or leadership throughout the side. We are a soft touch and other teams know it. Special mention to Ayew who must be adopted as he doesn't look related to a footballer
First time I've laughed since Gil was substituted. Great day out with UKR, PWS and Freddy totally ruined by one of the most inept 20 minutes I've seen us put together.
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I was so depressed and angry earlier that I decided not to post. I've calmed down a bit now. I maintain that TS bought well in the summer, with the exception of Ayew. These players still need to get up to speed.
In the past three games we have shown that we can play strong attacking football, and in every case stupid errors have cost us. Guzan being the main culprit. Sherwood made mistakes today and will learn from these mistakes I am sure, though I'm not sure why Wilkins isn't advising him (was he there today I didn't see him on the TV?).
I think we'll be OK. We need to drop Guzan though.
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On a slightly brighter note, that was a beautiful goal by Gil. Thought he had a decent 60 minutes.
Playing Gil and Grealish was great offensively but the amount of cover they gave the full backs deteriorated as the game went on. Not only did Sherwood not see this, he actually managed to make it worse with his first substitution. Inexcusable really - we are in real trouble if he can't see this himself.
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Grealish: https://vine.co/v/eFpEFOxjKYV
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Gil: https://vine.co/v/eFDA1nmWx6K
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Just back from the game...havent read any comments so far but imagine it will make interesting reading once I'm calmed down. Very pissed off and frustrated at throwing away 3 points...in addition to the 2 against Sunderland, thats 5 points dropped in the last 2 games.
We looked excellent in the first half...controlled the game and dominated possession without creating many chances but the game was clearly ours for the taking, and outplayed Leicester in their back yard. Both the team and Jack deserved the goal. We should have been more than 1-0 up at half time though.
The second half is where we show ourselves to be Jekyll and Hyde...for the second game running, the opposition make changes, come out the blocks fast and we look completely lost. Our second goal (can't wait to see it again!) was against the run of play but we deserved it, but a few minutes later TS substitutes Gil and replaces him with Ayew...WTF???!!! I spent the next 5-10 minutes trying to work out what and why he made that decision...I'm still none the wiser. I have no idea why he took Gil off...if he was carrying a knock then surely the obvious change is to bring on Veretout and do whatever it takes to shut up shop in order to take 3 points away from home...you don't bring on Ayew and Gestede...seriously WTF is that all about?!
I heard TS on the radio blaming the players for making mistakes and conceding possession in bad areas...personally I blame TS for not seeing Sanchez was dead on his arse, not making the necessary changes to protect a 2-0 lead and making yet more stupid substitutions.
Looking at the positives...we played some awesome football and were the best team by a long way for at least an hour..."we're Aston Villa...we're taking the piss"...it hurts to have that thrown back in your face after the team capitulate so badly. Absolutely gutted at the moment but this team has shown the signs that they can be a very very good side.
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I thought for the first half we were mostly very good, and the decision to play both Gil and Grealish was a bold one, and it mostly worked. However, it was inevitable that they'd come back into it, and that's where Veretout or Clark could have come on to shore things up a bit. But to be 2-0 up with 20 minutes left, and then to lose is inexcusable, and while I've been a big fan of Sherwood's, he go it utterly wrong today. Playing the furious boss unwilling to give a proper interview afterwards as well doesn't work when it's mostly your fault we've lost.
We've still got too many underwhelming players who just aren't good enough for the Premier League, e.g. Guzan, Westwood and Bacuna.
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Great goal by Jack, magic goal by Gil. Almost worth watching MOTD2 for. And to see if and where the pundits apportion the blame. Hopefully they get someone on who knows enough about us to do a decent analysis. I'm not holding my breath.
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Just got home. Thank you to Redsox and Leeg for a great day apart from that 20 mins.
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It's rare that pretty much every post is in agreement! Very obvious what went wrong today
Do think Amavi is going to cost us a few.
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One of the worrying things was that at the crucial time, at 2-1, we had all the players on the field we needed, if it were Clark and Baker at CH then it could be argued that we only needed a bit more experience to see us stop conceding silly goals, we only need a decent defensive midfielder to protect them etc, etc.
Today we had all we thought we needed and still came up well short.
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I honestly think going 2 up was the worst thing that could've happened to us as funny as it sounds. I honestly though Sherwood at that point thought the game was won, we were on easy street and he could start giving minutes to some of our attackers.
I can't believe at 1 up and under the cosh he would've maybe the same changes. Would we have held on at 1-0, maybe not but those subs were ridiculous.
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One of the worrying things was that at the crucial time, at 2-1, we had all the players on the field we needed, if it were Clark and Baker at CH then it could be argued that we only needed a bit more experience to see us stop conceding silly goals, we only need a decent defensive midfielder to protect them etc, etc.
Today we had all we thought we needed and still came up well short.
Okay I take back my point about everyone being in agreement. I don't think we had everyone on the pitch we needed in the slightest. That was the problem
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and what the fuck is going on with our fitness?
they just seem to want to play for Sherwood
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My tweet at 0-2.
I know villa too well to get excited just yet #avfc
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Sherwood is just a mockney chancer isn't he, tactically he's fucking clueless .
I don't ever want to see Bacuna at RB ever again. That was ghastly 85 mins from him. Guzan is a busted flush at this level .
Sanchez makes such horrendous personal errors I'm not sure we can risk playing him .
Westwood has not improved in 3 years , he came from League one and that's his true level. He is also the latest in a long line of shite floaty nothing corner takers.
Ayew looks as I've always thought absolute dross. He doesn't even resemble a football player .
The whole team for that last 30 mins lost their heads, lost all shape, purpose, composure, you name it they lost it . Sherwood though is 100% at fault for this today. Absolutely embarrassed yet again.
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One of the worrying things was that at the crucial time, at 2-1, we had all the players on the field we needed, if it were Clark and Baker at CH then it could be argued that we only needed a bit more experience to see us stop conceding silly goals, we only need a decent defensive midfielder to protect them etc, etc.
Today we had all we thought we needed and still came up well short.
Okay I take back my point about everyone being in agreement. I don't think we had everyone on the pitch we needed in the slightest. That was the problem
We had experience and players who could, or should, be able to retain the ball and see that game out, all over the field. We lacked desire, not sure if that can be coached.
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westwood's level is not league 1
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for desire replace fitness?
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Sherwood is just a mockney chancer isn't he, tactically he's fucking clueless .
I don't ever want to see Bacuna at RB ever again. That was ghastly 85 mins from him. Guzan is a busted flush at this level .
Sanchez makes such horrendous personal errors I'm not sure we can risk playing him .
Westwood has not improved in 3 years , he came from League one and that's his true level. He is also the latest in a long line of shite floaty nothing corner takers.
Ayew looks as I've always thought absolute dross. He doesn't even resemble a football player .
The whole team for that last 30 mins lost their heads, lost all shape, purpose, composure, you name it they lost it . Sherwood though is 100% at fault for this today. Absolutely embarrassed yet again.
agree totally 6 defeats in 8, 5 games in a same old shit
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westwood's level is not league 1
It's definitely not premier league .
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That last 20 minutes was as bad as anything i've seen in the last 5 years. The defence was ripped to bits at will. I dread to think what the score would have been if there was more time left.
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Maybe, Sanchez was the one struggling most. He looked fucked most of last season and I put that down to coming into the pace of our football, he looked much better recently but maybe there are underlying fitness issues.
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The Westwood criticism remains ridiculous.
What are people basing it on today? He has a great first half (like most of them) and the gets completely overrun second half because his manager doesn't respond to the opposition's changes and his partner (also excellent first half) dies on his arse.
League two my arse, at least 7 or 8 players are more culpable than him today. Easy target.
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The Westwood criticism remains ridiculous.
What are people basing it on today? He has a great first half (like most of them) and the gets completely overrun second half because his manager doesn't respond to the opposition's changes and his partner (also excellent first half) dies on his arse.
League two my arse, at least 7 or 8 players are more culpable than him today. Easy target.
He was our joint worst player 1st half . Far from "great"
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Completely agree re Westwood. I was in the pub today with various fans of other clubs and they all said they rate him
He's definitely better in a three. But Leicester had two wingers, plus marauding full backs, plus mahrez running non stop at us. And he and a guy who's never looked that fit and was playing in New York on Wednesday were holding the fort alone there
I still think gueye is first choice, but Westwood was far from our worst player
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lets keep our heads high
if we play like we did (1st half)
and tim reads this thread(im sure he will)
well be fine
UTV
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The goals were excellent. At times we look like we can play some good football.
BUT... As has been said many times today, it was quite obvious that we were going to lose our grip on the game. We've been shit for so long and it seems hard for us to shake off. Guzan and Bacuna have gone backwards. Lescott and Richards were okay, but seem to fall into the Aston Villa way of making unnecessary errors; Amavi looks like he will be good; Sanchez wasn't great; Westwood okay; the front three of the midfield were good in fits and starts and Gabby was okay without looking like he'd ever score, ever.
I'm sure we will improve but it's frightening that we are so often so bad in the second half of games and have a superb ability to clutch defeat from the jaws of victory time and time again.
Being shit for so long is taking its toll. It's always so fucking miserable.
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Completely agree re Westwood. I was in the pub today with various fans of other clubs and they all said they rate him
He's definitely better in a three. But Leicester had two wingers, plus marauding full backs, plus mahrez running non stop at us. And he and a guy who's never looked that fit and was playing in New York on Wednesday were holding the fort alone there
I still think gueye is first choice, but Westwood was far from our worst player
Agreed. I'd be surprised if you can find a worse outfield player than Bucuna. Never looks comfortable on the ball and kept playing the ball into dangerous areas due to his lack of technical ability. Him and Guzan just ain't good enough I'm afraid.
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I can't see them holding onto Mahrez (sp?) for too long, he was magnificent.
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Completely agree re Westwood. I was in the pub today with various fans of other clubs and they all said they rate him
He's definitely better in a three. But Leicester had two wingers, plus marauding full backs, plus mahrez running non stop at us. And he and a guy who's never looked that fit and was playing in New York on Wednesday were holding the fort alone there
I still think gueye is first choice, but Westwood was far from our worst player
Agreed. I'd be surprised if you can find a worse outfield player than Bucuna. Never looks comfortable on the ball and kept playing the ball into dangerous areas due to his lack of technical ability. Him and Guzan just ain't good enough I'm afraid.
N'Zogbia.
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Well four hours later still bitterly disappointed. I'm sure that TS and his team have seen enough of these players to anticipate; what's going to happen when we get into the tiring last third of games ,so like many on this site I'm baffled. So where do we go from here Guzan is getting deserved criticism is Bunn any Better? Imho no I think the Baggins are going to scent blood here we go again.
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Opportunity next week. Wins over the Baggies and Blues will a lot to improve spirits around the place, like Baggiesx2 last season.
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Completely agree re Westwood. I was in the pub today with various fans of other clubs and they all said they rate him
He's definitely better in a three. But Leicester had two wingers, plus marauding full backs, plus mahrez running non stop at us. And he and a guy who's never looked that fit and was playing in New York on Wednesday were holding the fort alone there
I still think gueye is first choice, but Westwood was far from our worst player
Agreed. I'd be surprised if you can find a worse outfield player than Bucuna. Never looks comfortable on the ball and kept playing the ball into dangerous areas due to his lack of technical ability. Him and Guzan just ain't good enough I'm afraid.
I haven't really been with the anti-Bacuna thing as much as most, I can see how there is a case for his versatility making him more useful.
However, today, he was utterly atrocious. He looked technically dreadful, the least technically able of our players today by a long way, but as a full back he is terrible. Several times just stood there as their man went past him like he didn't exist.
He is an obvious weak link. Hutton isn't great and brings his own problems, but I'd have him there ahead of Bacuna any day of the week.
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The Westwood criticism remains ridiculous.
What are people basing it on today? He has a great first half (like most of them) and the gets completely overrun second half because his manager doesn't respond to the opposition's changes and his partner (also excellent first half) dies on his arse.
League two my arse, at least 7 or 8 players are more culpable than him today. Easy target.
He was our joint worst player 1st half . Far from "great"
No he bloody wasn't.
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We've spent Ł15m of the Benteke money on Ayew & Gestede & I can't see anything that justifies either.
Bacuna has had enough chances & is NEVER going to be good enough defensively at right back.
Guzan has flattered to deceive for 2-3 years.
Despite these, if Sherwood makes the right calls, at the right time, we'd still have won.
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Even the goals are a cause for concern if you're feeling super pessimistic, which I am, as we had to score 2 worldies despite despite dominating possession.
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Just in and very pissed off. All I say is this. We have changed the manager, the coaching staff and practically the whole team yet that was classic Aston Villa. It's in our DNA. Unbelievable.
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15M on ayew and gestede makes me shiver
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The Westwood criticism remains ridiculous.
What are people basing it on today? He has a great first half (like most of them) and the gets completely overrun second half because his manager doesn't respond to the opposition's changes and his partner (also excellent first half) dies on his arse.
League two my arse, at least 7 or 8 players are more culpable than him today. Easy target.
He was our joint worst player 1st half . Far from "great"
No he bloody wasn't.
No way. We dominated possession. He was prominent in that. It's just nonsense
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Ranieri clearly recognised the weakness at right back so flung on Dyer and then had Schlupp doubling up but why no response? There was little appearance of stopping the ball to Mahrez either when we'd done well against him in the first half.
I was hoping Albrighton would stay on as he was so ineffective but again Ranieri spotted it whereas our substitutions just made things worse.
I've seen some abject surrenders, but coming away afterwards that seemed like one of the worst after such a promising hour.
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So, we have previously accepted that as a club we have slipped behind the likes of Swansea and Southampton.
Are we now slipping behind the likes of Palace and Leicester?
And I don't mean just because of the recents defeats, but because of the way they have beaten us.
Aggressive, pacy, high tempo football, with the ability to build up an impetus which creates a belief that they CAN and WILL score.
We haven't played like that since I don't know when, and I honestly think that at times we have found ourselves scoring or in the lead more by luck than judgement.
I don't want to get too downhearted just yet but fuck me, we have been shit for what is it, 10 games now ?
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The Westwood criticism remains ridiculous.
What are people basing it on today? He has a great first half (like most of them) and the gets completely overrun second half because his manager doesn't respond to the opposition's changes and his partner (also excellent first half) dies on his arse.
League two my arse, at least 7 or 8 players are more culpable than him today. Easy target.
He was our joint worst player 1st half . Far from "great"
No he bloody wasn't.
No way. We dominated possession. He was prominent in that. It's just nonsense
Stay in denial then. He's crap and has been part and parcel of 3 years of crapness with him (and plenty of others ) around
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Didn't even realise Albrighton was on the pitch until it was mentioned above.
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I don't want to get too downhearted just yet but fuck me, we have been shit for what is it, 10 games now ?
I'd say it's more like 110.
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An attempt at objective ratings
Guzan - 6 but a massive mistake
Bacuna - 5 very poor
Richards - 8 I think he looks great. Fantastic
Lescott - 6 good to begin with but fucked up for the goal
Amavi - 6 decent first half but struggles a bit
Westwood 6 - good first but then over ran
Sanchez 6 - as above but more so. Erratic passing later on
Gil 7 - in and out but classy
Sinclair - 5 didn't think he did much
Grealish 6 - classy moments but not his best game
Gabby 5 - two good moments but poor overall
You can add 1 to our attacking players for their first half performance
Tim - 5 the right team and the wrong subs
Overall a massive frustration. Plenty of positives but some real concerns
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Didn't even realise Albrighton was on the pitch until it was mentioned above.
the only time that I noticed him was when he was booked.
I was worried that he'd rip Bacuna apart but it never happened
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Yeah albrighton did nowt
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Ranieri clearly recognised the weakness at right back so flung on Dyer and then had Schlupp doubling up but why no response?
That's what worries me.
It's not like this is a new thing with Sherwood, how often have we seen him change nothing when an opponent changes stuff and the match starts to move against us? If it isn't that, then it is making the wrong changes.
I've just seen on twitter that he's standing by his changes.
That scares the shit out of me.
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One of our main issues is the amount of players that still don't look match fit. It's mid September FFS!
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What the second half needed was some James Collins hoofs upfield.
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Spurs fans biggest gripe about sherwood was his limited tactical awareness.
Very worrying.
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Warning signs were there in the first 2 minutes of the 2nd half carried on through the rest of the half, making the subs he did were shockers.
Time & time again were still making the same silly mistakes,looks like another long season unless players & management can sort this out.
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I was hoping this would be offset by results that came from his motivational abilities. Seems the scales are not as balanced as I hoped on this.
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I think he's picked some good teams, been far more than a 442 merchant which is what I feared
But his game management has been generally really bad. We change our plan a from game to game but stick with it throughout the game.
We keep three defensive midfielders on the pitch when we're all over Sunderland. We refuse to put a third one in there when defending a lead away from home
Explain that one
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I do worry Ray Wilkins is probably not helping the situation but merely adding to the confusion.
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It's still early on. And let's remember we played bloody well first half in a game we were 4-1 to win
Almost any other team and stadium than today and we win today
We've got problems but we've got lots of opportunities too.
Need to win the next two.
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I don't want to get too downhearted just yet but fuck me, we have been shit for what is it, 10 games now ?
More like 200. Almost non stop bullshit football with tiny patches of competency in the last 5 years.
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Almost any other team and stadium than today and we win today
Eh ? Really don't see that
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I don't want to get too downhearted just yet but fuck me, we have been shit for what is it, 10 games now ?
More like 200. Almost non stop bullshit football with tiny patches of competency in the last 5 years.
I know how long it's been over the years, I suppose I meant how long we have been shit since the new (false?) dawn of Sherwoods arrival.
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Almost any other team and stadium than today and we win today
Eh ? Really don't see that
I don't, either.
We were all over them in the first half. The degree to which we fucked it up in the second suggests it wouldn't really require a crack side - and this was Leicester, FFS - to beat us.
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We must have conceded more last minute goals than any other PL club ever.
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Almost any other team and stadium than today and we win today
Eh ? Really don't see that
I don't, either.
We were all over them in the first half. The degree to which we fucked it up in the second suggests it wouldn't really require a crack side - and this was Leicester, FFS - to beat us.
Agree it was such a dire last 30 mins we'd have struggled against any side
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Dear Father Christmas
All i want for Christmas is a Decent Right Back and a Goalie with a Brain.
Yours Sincerely
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When does the 'winning mentality' bit start?
I'm getting a bit fed up with waiting.
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I will defend Sherwood, who I think is still in the infancy of his management career (40 games so far maybe?), but what we seem to have is an imbalance between too many attacking midfielders when all are fit and holding players. His changes today were puzzling but what did he have to steady the ship on the bench - maybe Richardson or Clark. His error to me hasn't been about not trying to transform Villa from the dormant state he inherited - 4 goals in our last 2 games for 1 point shows we have tons more about us - it has been about not identifying the weaknesses of Sanchez and Westwood and having AN Other ready to drop in alongside them. I know it is old hat but we have lacked real bite in midfield since (depending on your age) Taylor, McMahon or Mortimer. We need a striker but I would argue we need a man who bleeds Villa when he pulls the team together when under the cosh like today even more
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My point was that Leicester are almost unique in the way the crowd just roars on a relentless and very direct style. I think that from a 2-0 position against other sides we'd have been fine. Maybe
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We must have conceded more last minute goals than any other PL club ever.
It's getting ridiculous this second half thing now.
Just looked it up and we've scored 52 and conceded 110 during the second half the last 3 years. 39 goals conceded in the last 10 minutes and only 13 scored. Fucking crap.
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If the players melted because of the noise at Leicester we are fucked
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Worrying we've dominated halves of football so convincingly and yet have 1 point out of 9 v Leicester, Palace and Sunderland.
Sunderland will be bottom 3, Palace will be fine and I reckon if Leicester had lost today that would've started their rapid downward spiral, delayed by the comeback now.
Not even the better teams in the league and we're struggling to get points on the board when we're properly dominating. Concerning.
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To be honest I was a lot more concerned on 10th January when we were fortunate not to ship six against Leicester.
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We miss Benteke
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That was amazing! Aston Villa looked in control after two delightful goals from Jack and Gil (sorry!) but Leicester never quit and, inspired by the incredible Riyad Mahrez, they reeled Villa in, who lost their way when Tim Sherwood replaced Gil and Agbonlahor with Ayew and Gestede, leaving Grealish in a three-man midfield that was asking to be punished.
From the guardian.
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My point was that Leicester are almost unique in the way the crowd just roars on a relentless and very direct style. I think that from a 2-0 position against other sides we'd have been fine. Maybe
Mate that's nonsense.
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I don't think it is. They were absolutely relentless.
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I don't think it is. They were absolutely relentless.
So what . It was Leicester FFS not the Nou Camp
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My point was that Leicester are almost unique in the way the crowd just roars on a relentless and very direct style. I think that from a 2-0 position against other sides we'd have been fine. Maybe
Mate that's nonsense.
We went quiet at 3-2, could have been a big factor.
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I don't think it is. They were absolutely relentless.
I was there, as soon as we scored they were shit until we gifted them the first goal. They weren't impressive before their goal either with those wanky clapper things. Knobs.
Any set of fans are going to make some noise when your team is coming from behind against a side that is obviously committing footballing suicide.
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That was amazing! Aston Villa looked in control after two delightful goals from Jack and Gil (sorry!) but Leicester never quit and, inspired by the incredible Riyad Mahrez, they reeled Villa in, who lost their way when Tim Sherwood replaced Gil and Agbonlahor with Ayew and Gestede, leaving Grealish in a three-man midfield that was asking to be punished.
From the guardian.
Sadly, this is true. Great player and lovely goal but I fear, not a player for rolling his sleeves up and being combative, same as the ever so rated Ashley Westwood.
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Sanchez was pretty solid upto about 60 mins then morphed into Sanchez 2014 model, loose passing, no awareness, monumental errors. It was painful viewing.
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I don't think it is. They were absolutely relentless.
I was there, as soon as we scored they were shit until we gifted them the first goal. They weren't impressive before their goal either with those wanky clapper things. Knobs.
Any set of fans are going to make some noise when your team is coming from behind against a side that is obviously committing footballing suicide.
Agreed. I only watched it on telly, but the commentators were going on about the great atmosphere without realising it was all coming from the Villa fans.
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Sanchez was pretty solid upto about 60 mins then morphed into Sanchez 2014 model, loose passing, no awareness, monumental errors. It was painful viewing.
He's struggling with fitness still. I just worry whether he'll ever get up to the level required to go 90 minutes every game. I have to give the benefit of doubt at the moment because he was late back to pre-season without much of a break, and he's just been on international duty. I would hope come Oct/Nov he won't be dying on his arse at 60 minutes.
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Just got back, can't believe we lost it. I'm fucking fuming actually, the way we collapsed was disturbing. Need to fucking sort it out
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Post game even Dwight Yorke managed to flag the Gil/Ayew swap as the turning point . Even Niall Quinn nodded in agreement. Sherwood needs to up his game sharpish.
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Just got back, can't believe we lost it. I'm fucking fuming actually, the way we collapsed was disturbing. Need to fucking sort it out
Back about 2 hours ago and read every post on this thread in a bit of a daze...you've summed it up for me Phil without me agonising over expressing my complex, fuc*ed up feelings through my pathetic vocabulary.
Cheers mate.
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Leicester fans didn't make any noise until they scored and then went quiet again until they got the equaliser...admittedly the Villa fans went quiet at 2-2 whilst watching our team fall apart in front of our eyes after being 2-0 up, and they were singing in delight after completing our "2-0 up and fucked it up".
Did anyone else feel that stand bouncing up and down? Not sure football stadiums are supposed to be that flexible!
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Leicester fans didn't make any noise until they scored and then went quiet again when they got the equaliser...Villa fans went quiet at 2-2 whilst watching our team fall apart in front of our eyes after being 2-0 up.
Did anyone else feel that stand bouncing up and down? Not sure football stadiums are supposed to be that flexible!
Yep, you have to up near the back but fuck me it was moving! It felt more like being stood on a mattress than concrete.
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Sunday's are bad enough without bullshit like this afternoons shenanigans.
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Yeah I was in row MM a few rows from the back...there were a few concerned faces around me wondering if the stand was about to collapse!
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I was KK. Leeg and Redsox were further forward and couldn't feel it.
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I'm so pissed off with that today. Gutted.
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What the second half needed was some James Collins hoofs upfield.
Or a Baker special on Vardy.
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Mahrez is a cracking player isn't he? But for the final goal, he picks it up thirty yards out and there's nobody within ten yards of him. That's why you put an extra man in midfield Tim
Guzan had done really well until the end
But what a fuck up
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Sherwood could try Tiago Ilori at RB, or when fit Jores Okore. Gana should be back soon in the middle. And, of course, Adama Traore - which is frustrating with him trying to overcome an ankle injury.
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Goal 1 Bacuna massive fuck up
Goal 2 Ayew fuck up
Goal 3 Guzan
Overall sherwood tactical fucking shambles
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Allardyce just summed it up pretty well. Hopefully Tim will learn
I think motd could have at least celebrated our goals a bit
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Allardyce just summed it up pretty well. Hopefully Tim will learn
I think motd could have at least celebrated our goals a bit
From the "highlights" it looked like Leicester had 99% possession and 4 million chances and we had 2 lucky breakaways.
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Sam Allardyce called it, regarding the substitution of Gil, but stopped short of actually criticising Sherwood.
Gutted we lost that.
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May be worth a mention to the fans that 'taking the piss' and ole's with every pass are best kept to times when even we can't fuck it up. Otherwise we end up looking a bit silly.
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I don't know about anyone else but it feels really painful tonight ,it really hurts
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Allardyce just summed it up pretty well. Hopefully Tim will learn
I think motd could have at least celebrated our goals a bit
From the "highlights" it looked like Leicester had 99% possession and 4 million chances and we had 2 lucky breakaways.
I really get your point and we were excellent in the first half....but, to be fair.
I don't recall their goalie actually making a single save, and other than the Gil goal we were barely in their half after half time.
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Sanchez was pretty solid upto about 60 mins then morphed into Sanchez 2014 model, loose passing, no awareness, monumental errors. It was painful viewing.
He's struggling with fitness still. I just worry whether he'll ever get up to the level required to go 90 minutes every game. I have to give the benefit of doubt at the moment because he was late back to pre-season without much of a break, and he's just been on international duty. I would hope come Oct/Nov he won't be dying on his arse at 60 minutes.
Yes his lack of stamina is very worrying but in fairness Westwood and himself should never ever play in a 2 man midfield. Thought Grealish and Sinclair went missing for us too in the second half. Not good enough.
Wasn't all that impressed with the Richards, Lescott combo either. All in all we descended into an absolute rabble, made infinitely worse by the subs. Hutton was pretty shite too but not sure why he was dropped as was one of our better players v Sunderland.
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I do worry Ray Wilkins is probably not helping the situation but merely adding to the confusion.
I said at the time of his appointment that he has a moderate record as an assistant and manager. He is so nice and polite. He is never going to rock the boat and challenge tim
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I don't know about anyone else but it feels really painful tonight ,it really hurts
I never ever thought over a football game I would replay that fa cup game when we lost to Yanited in b6 despite being 2 up with 8 mins to go. And losing.
Today is that feeling again it's horrid.
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Amavi probably had the worst last 20 mins, and there is a lot of competition for that 'honour'. I was expecting him to get a red as he seemed to lose all composure.
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Sanchez was pretty solid upto about 60 mins then morphed into Sanchez 2014 model, loose passing, no awareness, monumental errors. It was painful viewing.
He's struggling with fitness still. I just worry whether he'll ever get up to the level required to go 90 minutes every game. I have to give the benefit of doubt at the moment because he was late back to pre-season without much of a break, and he's just been on international duty. I would hope come Oct/Nov he won't be dying on his arse at 60 minutes.
How can he not be fit. Its bloody ridiculous of a prem footballer
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Allardyce just summed it up pretty well. Hopefully Tim will learn
I think motd could have at least celebrated our goals a bit
From the "highlights" it looked like Leicester had 99% possession and 4 million chances and we had 2 lucky breakaways.
I really get your point and we were excellent in the first half....but, to be fair.
I don't recall their goalie actually making a single save, and other than the Gil goal we were barely in their half after half time.
Yes andy that's my point...we were very good in the first half, after the first 10 minutes...and agreed, it seemed as if we were allergic to the ball in the second...some credit must go to Leicester for that...and our set-up, or lack of it, seemed to play into their hands.
Still feel bloody sick though mate...clutching at wotsits for any crumb of comfort, injustice or Mike Dean being their 12th man!!!
;-)
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Simply cannot blame the ref.
The Bacuna / Vardy tangle, my initial reaction was fuck that's a pen. Was amazed he waved it away.
Dean was good today and we cannot blame him at all
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Amavi probably had the worst last 20 mins, and there is a lot of competition for that 'honour'. I was expecting him to get a red as he seemed to lose all composure.
He's been falling apart every game second half. World class first half but it's like watching two different players each half.
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Amavi probably had the worst last 20 mins, and there is a lot of competition for that 'honour'. I was expecting him to get a red as he seemed to lose all composure.
He's been falling apart every game second half. World class first half but it's like watching two different players each half.
He's clearly got some talents but at the moment he's like a crap version of Ashley Cole.
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I looked at the subs bench and there wasn't one player that could come on and make a difference. Thought we dominated them for seventy minutes then went to water once they had scored, very little backbone in the team i'm afraid and there are quite a few that cannot see out a game. Bacuna has to go
he was our weak point in defence and they exploited it. a great pity because the two goals we scored were pure quality.
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Guzan played twice last week and traveled back and fro so I was concerned about his concentration levels. This proved ultimately costly with a rash error at the end against a the shortest player on the pitch. What I also saw were subs that didn't make much of an impact and two great goals by villa today. One thing I don't find great is Sherwood's immature reaction in his interviews when they lose. It happens in football and yes I felt the same but I don't like a manager to be so despondent and somewhat ignorant to claim villa had won game after 60minutes at 2-0. Also just like the fa cup he again refuses to take personal responsibility and he's going to end up the hard way. That game was there for the taking and I'm afraid the management have to take some responsibility in that defeat as Tim loves to go on about individual errors and blame everyone but himself.
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Simply cannot blame the ref.
The Bacuna / Vardy tangle, my initial reaction was fuck that's a pen. Was amazed he waved it away.
Dean was good today and we cannot blame him at all
I wasn't blaming Dean...just trying to avoid admitting how shit my team was and looking to blame anyone/anything/everything else.
btw silhill, took your advice and parked at Saffron Lane Sports Centre....good call mate - 10 minute walk to the ground and easy to get away after the game while I contemplated various forms of suicide.
Cheers.
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Simply cannot blame the ref.
The Bacuna / Vardy tangle, my initial reaction was fuck that's a pen. Was amazed he waved it away.
Dean was good today and we cannot blame him at all
I wasn't blaming Dean...just trying to avoid admitting how shit my team was and looking to blame anyone/anything/everything else.
btw silhill, took your advice and parked at Saffron Lane Sports Centre....good call mate - 10 minute walk to the ground and easy to get away after the game while I contemplated various forms of suicide.
Cheers.
Hi frank, glad you enjoyed that car park . It's a breeze in and out from there. Fair play to you and all those who went today, sound from away end was amazing at times.
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Sherwood doesn't know his best team, formation and its all work in progress. Before match he said lets not getting away if we win the next 3 matches or if we lose the next 3 matches . our performances need to be married by the points. And yes I somewhat agree but its the naiveity that's annoying me in not getting the desired results. That said improvement will follow and think can match a lot of teams this season once we settle down. I wish villa park fans were loud like Leicester city palace and stoke who's get it going. Tbh most English clubs dont have a party, rocking atmosphere but credit to palace , stoke and Leicester who give it some.
Bacuna is not a right back and its unfair to play him there. Grealish started well and scored a deserved goal. Gabby made some decent runs Sinclair should have scored one or two and was anon second half. Gil was a mixture but took goal well. Sanchez should have come off and Clark or Hutton on with Bacuna moving to midfield. Gestede did very little. Ayew isn't interested today and needs a run in team but will have to fight for his place
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Fuck. We go again.
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Guzan has been iffy since at least the midway part of the season, but Hutton wasn't too clever for that third.
He was ropey in the recent European Qualifiers for Scotland too, so Bacuna/ Hutton isn't going to make a whole pile of difference either way on current form.
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The negative (most of the second half) has been focussed on, understandably, tonight so I'm going to comment on the positive.
I saw a lot of promising things in the first half. We saw our way through a difficult start and then controlled the rest of the half, playing some good football at times. There were signs of an experienced centre back pairing giving the side composure, Westwood and Sanchez got on top of the game and Grealish/Gil gave some creativity. In future windows, the centre forward position will need to be nailed down and maybe we can add Adebayor now he's a free agent. He's not everyone's cup of tea but he could be valuable short-term - maybe a one year deal can be done, with an option.
We never really got started in the second half but Gil's goal illustrated the threat on the counter attack that we tend to possess and that looks no different.
After that, I agree with a lot of what has already been said. I could understand the decision to take Gil off at the time because Schlupp was getting forward and Gil couldn't track him, evidently because of injury. Changing to a 4-3-3 with Veretout coming on would have been sensible. I imagine he's struggling to adapt but then if he is, Ayew certainly is.
The final third of the game was a mess and embarrassing. I hope we can learn some valuable lessons and play more like we did in the first half going forward.
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To be honest, there were warning signs before Gil scored and I still cannot understand the logic of the substitution at that point. It was clear Gil was tiring and struggling to get back, so when he went off I thought Veretout or maybe even Hutton (slot in at RB and push Bacuna into midfield) would be standing there waiting to come on. I was really surprised to see Ayew come on at that point and he just went on to confirm what I already suspected after watching him a few times - he isn't ready for the Premier League yet.
Saying that, we still looked very comfortable up until Lescott and Bacuna got in a mix up and they scored from the resulting corner. Once they scored, the equaliser was inevitable, but to go and lose the game in that manner was a real blow.
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Chuffing hell, I am fuming. You know, this messageboard sees a lot of fans from of different ages, from different places, different countries and with different worries in life come together. Most of us don't know each other yet you know that for the entirety of the second half we were all to a man and woman sat there screaming for a defensive change. How can the manager not see the problem? Leicester won in a very English way, with the sort of style that has seen European teams overwhelmed in Europe over the years. They saw that we were better technically and just hounded us into submission using high energy and pace, we didn't respond. Even before Gil put us 2-0 up I thought we needed a change, Hutton for one of the front four would have done, push Bacuna up, allow someone to pick up Mahrez full time.
But, no. Tim send on Ayew when we are 2-0 up and then Gestede at 2-1. Madness!
I promised myself at half time that whatever happened second half I wouldn't forget the fact that we clearly have some wonderful footballers in Grealish, Gil, Amavi, Westwood, Sanchez et all. It's hard right now but they really were fantastic first half. Grealish will learn from this, he barely had a kick second half. Sanchez looks immense for 60 or 70 minutes and then completely shagged for 20 or 30. Not sure how that 'adjustment' to the pace of the English game is still happening.
Sherwood lost us the game though. And sadly in doing so, he has attracted a lot of negative attention for Ayew. I can see Villa fans on the internet claiming it's his fault. It wasn't. He should NEVER have been sent on in that situation.
Very true regarding Ayew I think
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Ranieiri bought on 2 midfielders during the second half to make sure they kept winning the ball against our flagging ones. How Wilkins, Sherwood, Brown and Robson, all stood there watching, did not draw the conclusion that a couple of pairs of fresh legs in the middle of the park and shoring up the wide areas that they were now doubling up on was a good plan god only knows. Lunacy.
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The reason I went for a season ticket this year was simply down to Tim Sherwood. Unfortunately, I'm fast losing confidence in him as, it appears, he is totally clueless in his substitutions and, when I now look back since the start of the season, we should have at least 6 points more than we have all due to his very very poor decision making when carrying out substitutions.
Today, he took Gil off immediately after he had scored an outstanding goal. Tim, if you're reading this, I was a striker at a good standard of football so, I will give you some free advice - NEVER, NEVER take someone off when they have just scored and coupled with the fact that Ayew isn't going to cut it in this league as, I've now had a chance to see him play enough. He does not have anything in his locker to be a top striker and, ditto for Gestede. I think if you played these two all season I doubt they would score 10 between them.
I know Tim said in his interview that Gil was injured but, it didn't look that way to me and, the game turned on it's head as soon as the substitution had been made.
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Almost any other team and stadium than today and we win today
Eh ? Really don't see that
I don't, either.
We were all over them in the first half. The degree to which we fucked it up in the second suggests it wouldn't really require a crack side - and this was Leicester, FFS - to beat us.
leicester are a decent side. Whilst I thought we'd win, it was always going to be a tough match. They're not second in the league now by a fluke.
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Snatched defeat out of the jaws of victory, grrrrr!
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A few concerns:
1. the comments from TS are starting to mirror those when he publicly criticised his players at Spurs. It will end very badly if he doesn't start to accept responsibility for his mistakes...if players like Sanchez and Grealish are making mistakes then ask yourself why and do something about it. Clue: affective use of available substitutes...and professional footballers should be able to last 90 minutes so do something in training to improve the overall fitness and stamina of these players for fucks sake.
2. Ayew and Gestede aren't PL quality. Approx Ł15m spent on 2 average at best players that will either take time to adjust or get to the standard...personally I dont think they have it in them to reach the standard and we dont have the time to give. We need a goalscorer or a new game plan to supply them with clear cut chances otherwise you may as well play Sinclair or Gabby up front. In hindsight, Austin should have been signed (thats if we are one of the few PL teams that Austin reckons approached him and he declined).
3. Adebayor has now being released from his contract at Spurs and is likely to make an appeal so he can play for another PL club. He's clearly completely batshit crazy but he's a much better option than any of our current CF options and could be the missing link. SSN have linked him to Villa again on the basis that we were in for him on deadline day...if the appeal is not successful then our current options are a genuine concern for me.
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We had the game won and blew it. A combination of the wrong substitutions and stupid mistakes cost us.
I hope all concerned, players and manager, learn from this because there is the makings of a decent side there. We just need to become a little more professional and composed in how we see out games.
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Tim got it wrong with his subs, Guzan should have stayed on his bloody line and left Hutton and I think Richards to deal with it.
A midfield of Gill, Grealish, Carlos and Westwood will always over 90 minutes get over run, as apart from Carlos there is not a tackle between them.
We know from last year and without a full pre- season, which he has not had, that you have to get Carlos off after 60 to 65 minutes, so if you do want to play him you need cover for his position on the bench.
Biggest concern not just over Carlos is the whole team seemingly lacking the fitness levels of a professional outfit, very very hard to correct that problem once the season has started and also maybe a reason for our continual niggly injury list.
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Sherwood does seem to be getting outdone with other teams subs, and has been making a few odd ones of his own. If Gil was injured, then fine but bringing on another striker was madness. The game was won, we didn't need to go and win it. Let''s hope it's a lesson we learn from next time we go 2-0.
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Apart from the worrying fitness levels Sherwood has got to find the correct balance between graft and guile. I believe that if Gana had been playing yesterday then the capitulation in Midfield would not have happened. A team can carry the likes of Grealish and Gil if they are allowed to focus on what they are good at. Sanchez and Gana should be able to give the team the backbone it obviously needs.
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I need to see it again but the first goal came about from Lescott faffing about on the ball now was that coz he had no options or the option he had Bacuna he didnt trust to pass too ?
What is also clear that despite changing players and mangers Villa as a whole still has an issue that we cant see out games or deal with teams pressurizing us.
Sticking Ayew on when we need to keep the ball was as poor a sub as you will see.Was Ayew brought so Nzogbia wouldnt be the most useless sub 10mil player in the squad ...
The players made individual mistakes because they were under pressure all second half and the managers job is to change the course of the game.Ranneri sid it and Pardew did it a few weeks ago.I dont buy this Sherwood is still learning crap either ..he has been in the game decades and is in his mid 40s i dare say it there are people on this site in thier 20s or younger who's could see the issues and that the subs where not going to work..if he cant ( and he says his subs were right ) then that is a big worry.
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Piss poor substitutes, real lack of vision from Tim.
Everybody watching the game could see what needed to happen after our second goal.
I'm tired and about had enough of football, after following villa for 31 years, I honestly feel I cannot watch anymore.
I can see us pulling a draw on Saturday and we are getting beaten by the knuckledraggers.
Let's face facts, we have a manager who wears his heart on his sleeve, but has the tactics of a chimpanzee lumping turds.
I can't believe I'm saying it, I've given myself the following day to calm down, but I'm done.
I ain't spending anymore of my hard earned money and time on this team.
Absolutely disgraceful, think Tims going to frustrate many fans thus season.
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I'm not sure how you can give up on a new team, new manager after 5 or so games.
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Yes a total shambles of a second half. We should have won the game from the position we were in, or at least held out for a point. I think the players were found out again with very sloppy mistakes and like last season we seem to struggle to play well consistently throughout a game. The manager too was found out. I actually think taking Gabby off may have been the biggest error. Anyway Sherwood sounded deflected after the game, but he is the one who has to pick them up so the next couple of weeks will be a big test.
The pressue will be on to beat West Brom and the Blues at home, if we get those results then maybe we can build from there, if not then things might start looking a bit desparate again.
Think we are not too far off attacking wise, we have a nice balance with the creative and pacy players, we do need more a clinical striker, but the main issues seem still to be controlling the game better in midfield and shutting a game out. We need to cut out those sloppy mistakes at the back too. If we don't improve in those areas then I think we will be down there again this season.
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I wonder if the double training sessions that TS spoke about the other week are having a detrimental effect on the players physical condition during the final 20-30 minutes of each game, woke up this morning still feeling like shit after watching our collapse yesterday.
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I wonder if the double training sessions that TS spoke about the other week are having a detrimental effect on the players physical condition during the final 20-30 minutes of each game, woke up this morning still feeling like shit after watching our collapse yesterday.
Doubt it. I don't buy the lack of fitness angle anyway. Its more down to sloppy mistakes and lack of leadership for me.
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6 defeats in the last 8 games. Sherwood's luck is running out fast. Why take off Gil after he scored that goal? Scared he might get another and have no excuse not to play him regularly?
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6 defeats in the last 8 games. Sherwood's luck is running out fast. Why take off Gil after he scored that goal? Scared he might get another and have no excuse not to play him regularly?
Is that a serious question?
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6 defeats in the last 8 games. Sherwood's luck is running out fast. Why take off Gil after he scored that goal? Scared he might get another and have no excuse not to play him regularly?
Sherwood said on the official site that Gil was feeling his recent knock a little bit. Could be true, could be Sherwood trying to protect his own back knowing he got the sub totally wrong.
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I'm with warleyboy here; irrespective of team, tactics, formation or manager we've been shite for five years. A perpetual groundhog day of mediocrity.
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it is always going to be easier for a manager to make substitutions to correct a game that is going badly, than during one that is going well. When things are going badly, there is a concrete vision of what needs to change. This is at least the second time recently that I have seen an opposition manager make the necessary adjustments at around the half way mark - having had half an hour or so to think about it - and Sherwood fail to respond appropriately, probably because his response has to be more immediate. It is harder, but clearly not a unique position for a manager - clearly, other managers do see games out when they are on top & so has Sherwood on occasion.
A clear example for me (without even starting on substitutions) is that I watched us play the ball out of defence in intricate deft little triangles in the first half, and found it both brilliant and terrifying at the same time. My response as a Leicester fan would be 'FFS - Get into them!' - and I am pretty sure some paraphrase of that would also be in Ranieri's half time instructions - certainly in the second half they did just that. At the same time I think the Villa players possibly not only became physically tired, but mentally tired, and their concentration was no longer good enough to play like this. This is the point where we had a 2 goal lead, the imperative to build attacks from the back was no longer there because we had our lead. A 'safety first' approach should have come into play - hoof it up the pitch or into row Z if necessary, if nothing else it wastes 30 seconds at a time (and is physical recovery time) Of course the ball comes back in, but high where we have a chance of picking up the bits. If we are losing the ball on the ground because we are pissing about trying to be Barcelona in our own third when it is no longer working, the ball can be in our own net far too quickly.
...so overall, he needs to think beyond how he wants us to play, and be looking at the opposition bench & team when we are on top and thinking 'What would I do if I was him, and what will I do when he does that?' - He doesn't appear to be doing that at the moment. I think that could be termed complacency.
On the other hand - pre season we all looked at all the changes and thought we would need to be patient, and that the team would take time to gel, and after 5 games it seems many are worried how long it is going to take. Personally - I always thought in terms of November/Christmas, so I find the panic amongst us after 5 games fairly baffling. For me, the clear positive is very much that they actually do seem to have gelled. For 45 minutes yesterday we looked very good, and very co-ordinated. This didn't look like a team waiting to be introduced to each other, they actually seemed to instinctively know where each other were, and were able to move the ball very quickly and effectively. I really do wonder whether mental rather than physical tiredness is a factor in holding this together for 90 minutes, and it may sort itself about as this comes more naturally to them. The dodgy collapses clearly have to be sorted, but I think this worries me less than if they were still just looking as disjointed as I thought they'd be at this stage (more frustrating though!)
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Sanchez was pretty solid upto about 60 mins then morphed into Sanchez 2014 model, loose passing, no awareness, monumental errors. It was painful viewing.
He's struggling with fitness still. I just worry whether he'll ever get up to the level required to go 90 minutes every game. I have to give the benefit of doubt at the moment because he was late back to pre-season without much of a break, and he's just been on international duty. I would hope come Oct/Nov he won't be dying on his arse at 60 minutes.
Yes his lack of stamina is very worrying but in fairness Westwood and himself should never ever play in a 2 man midfield. Thought Grealish and Sinclair went missing for us too in the second half. Not good enough.
Wasn't all that impressed with the Richards, Lescott combo either. All in all we descended into an absolute rabble, made infinitely worse by the subs. Hutton was pretty shite too but not sure why he was dropped as was one of our better players v Sunderland.
Got no problems with any 2-man combination of Gueye/Westwood/Sanchez - but - you have to have to bring on fresh legs after about an hour.
We saw it all last season, and I didn't even need to see yesterdays game to know that on hearing the headline 'Leicester overturn 2 goal defecit' that the 2 holding midfielders had been over run and left the defence exposed.
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haven't posted on here since the final whistle, felt more gutted and disappointed than when we had the no show at Wembley, it was hard to take
if you had to explain to someone who new nothing about football what supporting Villa was like over the last 20 years you could just show that match and say that's what its like in a nutshell
I don't know why but we just cant take pressure,
its been the same for years, we just collapse when we have been doing ok, good players seem to lose all sense of their football ability and turn into worrying numties, the whole team not just one or two, everyone collectively making bad decisions on the pitch
after Leicester had scored their 3rd goal, we barely created a chance, can you imagine that the other way around, we would have endured 10 minutes of bombardment, stress levels through the roof, nail biting shit that we would all suffer, they didn't, they strolled it
the subs and individual mistakes all over the pitch have been covered on here to death, I agree with all that,
but the tragedy is for about an hour we were playing great football controlling the game, and I said at the time 3 points away to Leicester and it will really kick start the season, only to be plunged back into gloom and doom 30 minutes later
Mahrez just took the piss, and we let him
lots to be positive about in the first hour, lots to be really pissed of about in the last 25 minutes
both of our goals were crackers, especially Gills
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TS blaming the players for mistakes and failing to keep possession does not impress me. He really needs to take a good look at himself. Fat Sam said as much on MOTD2. By all accounts TS thinks he made the right decisions yesterday! Worrying!
He shows no signs of learning from his many mistakes which he keeps repeating. There were enough options on the bench to shore up the midfield,and so protect the defence. For example he could have gone 4-5-1 and yes all formations should have been worked out and practised on the training pitch by now!
It was the dreadful substitutions that created pressure on defenders leading to inevitable errors and goals. 25 minutes to go, 2-0 up with an already going-ho starting eleven only a mentalist tactician brings on 2 out of form/not good enough strikers! Especially when it is clear for all to see the midfielders are tiring and being increasingly over run. Not rocket science, but it clearly is for TS!
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Sanchez was pretty solid upto about 60 mins then morphed into Sanchez 2014 model, loose passing, no awareness, monumental errors. It was painful viewing.
He's struggling with fitness still. I just worry whether he'll ever get up to the level required to go 90 minutes every game. I have to give the benefit of doubt at the moment because he was late back to pre-season without much of a break, and he's just been on international duty. I would hope come Oct/Nov he won't be dying on his arse at 60 minutes.
Yes his lack of stamina is very worrying but in fairness Westwood and himself should never ever play in a 2 man midfield. Thought Grealish and Sinclair went missing for us too in the second half. Not good enough.
Wasn't all that impressed with the Richards, Lescott combo either. All in all we descended into an absolute rabble, made infinitely worse by the subs. Hutton was pretty shite too but not sure why he was dropped as was one of our better players v Sunderland.
Got no problems with any 2-man combination of Gueye/Westwood/Sanchez - but - you have to have to bring on fresh legs after about an hour.
We saw it all last season, and I didn't even need to see yesterdays game to know that on hearing the headline 'Leicester overturn 2 goal defecit' that the 2 holding midfielders had been over run and left the defence exposed.
You have to put fresh legs on after an hour especially when the opposition have already done that and are caring you open at will.
The team basically lost all shape in that final 20 mins we somehow managed to
- Not be able to hold the ball upfront
- Leave space in the middle
- Leave the fullbacks exposed
What is confusing is that we have 3 defensive subs on the bench but at 2-0 he use's none of them and the first defensive sub doesn't come on untill its far too late.I guess his idea was refresh the attackers who can hold the ball up field unfortunately Ayew and Gestede had zero effect and just made things worse.
I would have sent Clark on and told him take yellow and clobber Mahrez just to break the momentum up.
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Piss poor substitutes, real lack of vision from Tim.
Everybody watching the game could see what needed to happen after our second goal.
I'm tired and about had enough of football, after following villa for 31 years, I honestly feel I cannot watch anymore.
I can see us pulling a draw on Saturday and we are getting beaten by the knuckledraggers.
Let's face facts, we have a manager who wears his heart on his sleeve, but has the tactics of a chimpanzee lumping turds.
I can't believe I'm saying it, I've given myself the following day to calm down, but I'm done.
I ain't spending anymore of my hard earned money and time on this team.
Absolutely disgraceful, think Tims going to frustrate many fans thus season.
I can't believe you're saying it. Yes the 2nd half capitulation yesterday was a disgrace, but to give up on the new team after 5 games I find amazing.
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Amfy I think you make some very good points.
I think some people panic as its been season after season of dross. I was speaking at half time with a couple of Villa who go everywhere too and we all concluded that the football we had played and the way that we had bossed the game was the best we’d seen in a very long time. It really should have been 3.
What I don’t quite fathom is that how willingly people are to gerrymander statistics to suit a particular point of view, yet ignore the fact we were utter bilge last season and finished 17th. It will, as you say, take time.
Not in a Lambert lets be hopeful that this defensive nihilism will work or this pointless triangle passing in our own final third will some how lead to us scoring, but in a we’re playing good football, but still making daft errors sort of way.
Organisation is easier to come by than a means of breaking the opposition down.
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Why can't I be one of those blokes who doesn't like football? My weekends would probably be so much more enjoyable. Thing is as soon as we went 2-0 up I actually said we still won't win, it just doesn't surprise me any more. Our record in the final ten minutes of games over the past couple of years must be shocking. We nearly always look out on our feet in the last twenty minutes which begs the question are they fit enough? We've always got a mistake in us aswell though and seem terrified as soon as a team puts us under any kind of pressure.
We've got some decent talent but we're carrying too many who aren't good enough I think. Guzan is massively overrated and when you think about it probably wouldn't even be in the top ten in the league. Bacuna is not a right back. Sanchez for me still goes missing and offers little protection. Gabby is Gabby and has been a lump for years now. Ayew although it's early stages looks horrendous. Throw in a manager who makes Kevin Keegan look like a tactical genius and it's easy to see why we struggle.
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I'm just as pissed off today as I was last night. That was a proper kick up the bollocks and I just hope they all - Sherwood included - learn from it, and quickly. Six defeats from 8 games is woeful form. I think yesterday taught us that we'll be fighting the drop yet again this season, when many of us naively thought that we would push on. It's going to be another long winter unless things change.
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Why do we keep harping back to last season? Why not make it 6 from 10? or 7 from 11? What relevance does getting walloped in the Cup Final with the likes of Benteke, Delph, Vlaar, Cleverley, Richardson and N'Zogbia, have to do with this season?
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If Gil had to come off, Hutton should have come on, letting Bacuna play in front of him, covering Schlupp.
They played some good stuff, and there are some good players among them, but right-back and centre-forward are two glaring areas of weakness which then unbalance the whole side.
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If Gil had to come off, Hutton should have come on, letting Bacuna play in front of him, covering Schlupp.
They played some good stuff, and there are some good players among them, but right-back and centre-forward are two glaring areas of weakness which then unbalance the whole side.
Yes - that is the change I would have initially made. I would have put Sinclair up front too when Gabby was taken off (should have been Clark on for Gabby).
Ironically they scored each of their goals after each of our substitutions....
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A agree about that Hutton should have come on to play behind Bacuna when Gil went off but I'd have also brought Richardson on for Gabby to play left side of midfield
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As depressing as this was, I would be very surprised if both the manager and team has not learnt anything from it. At 2-0 up with 30mins to go, no matter what the substitutions were, the players on the pitch should have had the gumption to see out the game, professionals I believe they are called (and get handsomely rewarded for it too).
Cast your mind back to many moons ago, playing a team called Leicester at Villa Park, with one of the greatest players to grace our club in charge as one of our best managers in recent times and we managed to throw away a 4 goal lead; had extra time be used as much as it is these days we would also have lost that match. We didn't, it was a sharp kick in the nuts and we ended up pretty reasonable throughout the rest of the season - we learnt our lesson that day; let's hope the same is true from yesterday.
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Having slept on it before posting, the positives are we were excellent for an hour yesterday. Lescott, Richards and Amavi looked composed, strong and organised in defence, protected by Westwood and Sanchez, and the three creative players gave us something I've not seen from a Villa midfield for a very long time.
As has been alluded to, Tim blew it tactically. Once we scored against the run of play to go two up he should have shut up shop. Instead he bought on two strikers who haven't showed me that they will actually make it in the Premier League. We failed miserably to hold the ball up front and invited constant pressure until we inevitably cracked.
Tim has to wake up and see what we can all see, that Bacuna and Gabby aren't good enough to be starting at this level. I'd take Hutton at right back every time, and surely Kozak is worth giving an opportunity to up front. He at least has the composure and instinct to benefit from the creativity we now possess and score goals. I have no confidence in Gabby in front of goal at all.
And we still wouldn't have lost that game if Guzan hadn't been such a pussy coming for that ball in the last minute. He was challenging Nathan Dyer for fuck's sake! It should have been no contest.
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If you look at the close up photos in the papers, it shows Guzan with his eyes shut as he goes up for the ball.
Show a bit of commitment Brad.
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As depressing as this was, I would be very surprised if both the manager and team has not learnt anything from it. At 2-0 up with 30mins to go, no matter what the substitutions were, the players on the pitch should have had the gumption to see out the game, professionals I believe they are called (and get handsomely rewarded for it too).
Cast your mind back to many moons ago, playing a team called Leicester at Villa Park, with one of the greatest players to grace our club in charge as one of our best managers in recent times and we managed to throw away a 4 goal lead; had extra time be used as much as it is these days we would also have lost that match. We didn't, it was a sharp kick in the nuts and we ended up pretty reasonable throughout the rest of the season - we learnt our lesson that day; let's hope the same is true from yesterday.
Actually, we collapsed after that game and were lucky to stay up.
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I can't see them holding onto Mahrez (sp?) for too long, he was magnificent.
yes hes good
the top four wont go for him but looks typical spurs signing
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As depressing as this was, I would be very surprised if both the manager and team has not learnt anything from it. At 2-0 up with 30mins to go, no matter what the substitutions were, the players on the pitch should have had the gumption to see out the game, professionals I believe they are called (and get handsomely rewarded for it too).
Cast your mind back to many moons ago, playing a team called Leicester at Villa Park, with one of the greatest players to grace our club in charge as one of our best managers in recent times and we managed to throw away a 4 goal lead; had extra time be used as much as it is these days we would also have lost that match. We didn't, it was a sharp kick in the nuts and we ended up pretty reasonable throughout the rest of the season - we learnt our lesson that day; let's hope the same is true from yesterday.
Actually, we collapsed after that game and were lucky to stay up.
Oh, my memory of the season is not as good as the memory of the game! (One I was unfortunate to attend at the time).
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I think the subs were a mistake, but i've seen Villa lose leads like that no matter what the manager did at the time
if he had made different changes it would have been a different result, but we don't know, because we don't calculate the total uselessness of the team to withstand pressure, and even when we have 'shut up shop' in the past we've still lost
if Veretout comes on and Hutton earlier and we still lose its blamed on 'shutting up shop' to early, 'inviting pressure' instead of going for another goal
the bottom line is you should never lose a two goal lead and when you do its always the changes that were made that's the problem, no matter what you do it was wrong,
don't forget we have been here loads of times before when we have made all the same sort of changes we are now calling for, and still lost
its part of the Villa DNA no matter what players we bring in they have a complete inability to cope with pressure
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I have no problem with Gil coming off but another midfielder would have been the way .
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Having slept on it before posting, the positives are we were excellent for an hour yesterday. Lescott, Richards and Amavi looked composed, strong and organised in defence, protected by Westwood and Sanchez, and the three creative players gave us something I've not seen from a Villa midfield for a very long time.
As has been alluded to, Tim blew it tactically. Once we scored against the run of play to go two up he should have shut up shop. Instead he bought on two strikers who haven't showed me that they will actually make it in the Premier League. We failed miserably to hold the ball up front and invited constant pressure until we inevitably cracked.
Tim has to wake up and see what we can all see, that Bacuna and Gabby aren't good enough to be starting at this level. I'd take Hutton at right back every time, and surely Kozak is worth giving an opportunity to up front. He at least has the composure and instinct to benefit from the creativity we now possess and score goals. I have no confidence in Gabby in front of goal at all.
And we still wouldn't have lost that game if Guzan hadn't been such a pussy coming for that ball in the last minute. He was challenging Nathan Dyer for fuck's sake! It should have been no contest.
kozak is a strange one . Im sure he could have held it up better than Ayew the last 20 minutes and would be ok defending corners.
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At least one thing must have got through to Sherwood, is that Gil has gotta be one of the first names on this team sheet.
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Some on here touched on this yesterday but you would have though either Wilkins or Parkes might have said to Sherwood 'a midfielder might be a better idea that Ayew'. He really was the last player that should have come on. A game is never won at 2-0 with 30 minutes to go.
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...so overall, he needs to think beyond how he wants us to play, and be looking at the opposition bench & team when we are on top and thinking 'What would I do if I was him, and what will I do when he does that?' - He doesn't appear to be doing that at the moment. I think that could be termed complacency.
Richards mentioned that the team possibly got complacent when we went 2-0 in his interview on AVTV. May be some of that stemmed from the Villa fans as it was a jubilant atmosphere in the away end for the majority of the game.
On the subject of the crowd, I'm really not getting this love in for the Leicester fans that created an amazing "atmosphere"...from where I was standing, they made very little noise until they scored and the Villa fans spent most the time taking the piss out of them and out singing them.
A couple of words about the game...Bacuna and Guzan. Seriously WTF are they on?! So many mistakes from Bacuna yesterday...he got away with not conceding a penalty with that clumsy challenge on Vardy, played a part in gifting the corner that lead to their first goal, lost his man from the subsequent corner for their first goal, should have cleared the cross in the box for their second (but theres no way that Mahrez should have been allowed to run past 4 players in the first place!!!), and attempted a suicidal high square ball to Sanchez which almost resulted in another goal. Guzan...well he repeatedly showed that he still isn't comfortable clearing his lines, orchestrates these risky passing movements from the back (which again almost cost us when we lost possession in the first half), and was obviously massively at fault for their third goal.
I said it before the transfer window closed that we needed strengthening in 4 positions...CF, CB, RB and GK...we got Lescott but there are 3 positions that need urgent attention and will ultimately cost us points this season.
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Calmed down now and am pretty much over it but when that third goal went in it's the angriest I've felt watching football in years, probably since the Everton 3-2 in Lambert's first season I think it was.
Gabby did OK I thought as well, should have set up Sinclair for a goal and nice work for our second.
We have managed to drop five points from our last two games and this needs to be sorted quick time. Three losses on the bounce now. Starting to feel like another relegation battle is coming.
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Im sure lliori will be the rB
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I think he will be too.
As an aside we scored two goals from midfield. Two more and we equal last seasons record.
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Fucking Less-tuh.
Nothing more to add.
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I know. They should be relegated for having those fruity clappers, the racist loving, camp bumpkins.
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Sad but true, I found it very difficult to get to sleep last night after what happened yesterday. The script seemed to be that Villa would romp to victory and we would all be celebrating Jack (and Gil)'s first Premier League goals for the club. It wasn't to be and the final result was painful but, as others have said, a day later, one can look back and reflect on what happened with a slightly more clear head.
For sixty-seventy minutes I thought Villa were fantastic. Carles Gil was, for me, head and shoulders the best player on the park during that spell and his goal was nothing short of beautiful. Likewise, Jack's goal was top notch. The signs were there, all over the pitch, that a very decent Villa side seems to be taking shape. I'm not going to be doom and gloom about this defeat, as painful as it was, because, hopefully, every single one of the squad, staff and supporters will have learned something from it about where this new look Villa is as a team: clearly there is currently a naivety and lack of steel to see a win through to the end. Hopefully as the team gels we will see that steel emerge and all being well the pain of yesterday will speed that process along.
I read on a Crystal Palace forum that some of their fans reckoned Villa were the best team they have faced this season and I wouldn't be surprised if the Leicester fans are saying the same thing about us today. There are things to be positive about but with no points to show for it it is very hard to take. I hope we look back to what happened yesterday as some kind of turning point/learning curve/catalyst for the season.
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I know. They should be relegated for having those fruity clappers, the racist loving, camp bumpkins.
Post of the day. Thanks for cheering me up!
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I'm taking solace from the fact that you learn from your mistakes, and teams need to feel the pain of defeat in scenarios to become stronger and develop as a team. Unfortunately as fans we've seen and felt it all before, but its all part of the learning process for both the new players and management.
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Ouch!
https://twitter.com/gishuvski/status/643089226817519616
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Some on here touched on this yesterday but you would have though either Wilkins or Parkes might have said to Sherwood 'a midfielder might be a better idea that Ayew'. He really was the last player that should have come on. A game is never won at 2-0 with 30 minutes to go.
Richardson and Veretout were hardly stand out options though.
I agree with the general sentiment that the subs were questionable, but the bench options were very limited. John E is quite right, if he had gone for shutting up shop (Richardson & Hutton) we may still have lost and Sherwood would have been castigated for that - as has happened countless times with previous managers.
I thought Gil was starting to struggle (notwithstanding the goal). Ayew turned out to be a poor choice, but Veretout could just have easily have had the game pass him by. Was Richardson the dream answer to the problem? Hardly.
Personally I would have put Hutton on and moved Bacuna forward. But the truth is the options were extremely limited, Leicester were always going to pile forward and in my view the palyers on the pitch lost the game not Sherwood, who would probably have been damned whatever decision he made.
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Been mulling the game over in my mind since yesterday; trying to look at it as rationally as possible.
First 60 minutes, I was really pleased. We didn't look like losing, particularly the first half. Plenty of good movement up front, Sanchez breaking up play well in the middle. The defence looked comfortable too; thought Amavi didn't put a foot wrong in that period, while Lescott and Richards looked tidy.
Like everyone else, I was surprised we didn't shut up shop after the second and also thought Ayew had a nightmare, but I'm not overly concerned. I thought we played some really good stuff and the game should probably have been out of sight. There was a period from about then 10th to the 25th minutes of the first half, when we looked capable of scoring every time we attacked and were really taking the game to them. It's a big difference to sitting back, soaking up the pressure and hitting on the break. Ranieri was forced to change how they were set-up to compensate for it and they had to slow the game down a bit.
As for the substitutions, plenty has been said about them already and I would have tightened things up, too. But I imagine he was looking for Gestede to hold the ball up as an out-ball and for Ayew to use his pace to try and force Leicester to have to sit a few yards deeper, opening up the field a bit and relieving some of the pressure. Obviously didn't work out like that, of course. He played his hand and it didn't work. To be honest, the only thing that I didn't really understand about the substitutions was his bringing on Hutton when they had a set-piece; what was it a corner or a free-kick or am I just imagining it? I was taught, since playing as a kid, that you never made a substitution when defending a corner or a free-kick as it can make a mess of the defensive organisation. Hutton came on and didn't seem to know who to pick up, with various players shouting at him telling him he was out of position. It didn't contribute to a sense of organisation.
All that said, I think we'll be alright. We can score goals and I think the team has plenty of promise. We threw it away yesterday, but they'll learn from it.
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TT: "Gor blimey Ray would you Adam & Eve it we're 2 up wadya recon?"
Ray: "Well boss those two very nice young men we have playing at full back are getting overrun. I would politely suggest you get two of our equally nice young men off the bench to give them some cover"
TT: "Are you ' avin a giraffe, they worry abaat us not the other way raand. Gestede and Ayew get stripped off you're on for Gabby and Gil. We'll show em who the Kings of the F#$@King Power Stadium are"
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Watching Vardy's equaliser, I'm shocked just how poor Lescott and especially Richards were.
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Some on here touched on this yesterday but you would have though either Wilkins or Parkes might have said to Sherwood 'a midfielder might be a better idea that Ayew'. He really was the last player that should have come on. A game is never won at 2-0 with 30 minutes to go.
Richardson and Veretout were hardly stand out options though.
I agree with the general sentiment that the subs were questionable, but the bench options were very limited. John E is quite right, if he had gone for shutting up shop (Richardson & Hutton) we may still have lost and Sherwood would have been castigated for that - as has happened countless times with previous managers.
I thought Gil was starting to struggle (notwithstanding the goal). Ayew turned out to be a poor choice, but Veretout could just have easily have had the game pass him by. Was Richardson the dream answer to the problem? Hardly.
Personally I would have put Hutton on and moved Bacuna forward. But the truth is the options were extremely limited, Leicester were always going to pile forward and in my view the palyers on the pitch lost the game not Sherwood, who would probably have been damned whatever decision he made.
At leastWatching Vardy's equaliser, I'm shocked just how poor Lescott and especially Richards were.
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See that goal, it was all about desire. Vardy bust a fucking gut to get to that ball whilst our two centre backs were fannying around.
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Ouch!
https://twitter.com/gishuvski/status/643089226817519616
Bacunas was particularly oafish looking and not at all surprising.
Must say though, that Mahrez player looks the mutts nuts. Very impressive so far this season.
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Vardy Goal Fuck Up 1:
Lescott got caught out of position but I was more concerned by that Mayrez was allowed to run so far unchallenged with the ball and take Ayew, Jack, Amavi and Sanchez out of the game, and then lay off the ball to be crossed with their man having also moved in to space with none of them tracking his run.
Vardy Goal Fuck Up 2:
Both Richards and Bacuna failing to get a foot on the low cross allowing Vardy to tap in past Guzan glued to his goal line.
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Late to the thread so haven't read through it but the Griffin view was:
We played really well for an hour. First half we pulverised them and played some great attacking stuff. Should have been further ahead. Whilst they were always going to come at us second half, we handled the pressure well initially and looked a danger on the counter which was where the second goal came from. So to capitulate as we did was shocking.
I don't know how many occasions we sloppily gave the ball away and invited pressure on ourselves. Nor do I know why Guzan didn't clean the pygmy that scored out for their winner.
Mahrez dragged them back in to the game but is a cheating little shit with his efforts to get Westwood I think sent off. Rolling round, holding his face when he got clipped on the ankle the cock.
Whilst I have pointed out some individual errors though, the manager has to take a fair chunk of the blame yesterday. He always sets us up well but has no plan B and is too slow to react to the opposition changing up on us. It has happened 3 games in a row now.
The subs were fucking crazy. Gil off? Fine. For Ayew? Utterly bonkers. That we conceded the midfield and allowed them to pour through at will when he had Clark, Richardson and Veretout on the bench could confound the world's greatest minds. Tim needs to wise up and quickly. We should have shut up shop.
What also concerned me was how we couldn't stand up to the rough stuff. Leicester tried to kick themselves into the games last year and it surfaced again yesterday. With us next up against a Pulis side there is no doubt how they will approach the game.
I really hope Gueye is back for the next one.
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Mahrez dragged them back in to the game but is a cheating little shit with his efforts to get Westwood I think sent off. Rolling round, holding his face when he got clipped on the ankle the cock.
Indeed. Ref and assistant on their right wing were conned a good bit in the 2nd half. Vardy was itching for a fight too and probably would've nutted someone if Villa had gone up 3-0
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I can't stand Vardy. He works but is a niggly, dirty little shit, who every time I see him seems to spend a fair chunk of the game trying to goad the opposition into clocking him. Frankly, I am fed up of hearing about this marvellous football from Leicester. Under the attacking veneer they are still Stoke-lite.
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I can't see them holding onto Mahrez (sp?) for too long, he was magnificent.
yes hes good
the top four wont go for him but looks typical spurs signing
Why not make him a target for us? He might not even have to relocate if he is living in Midlands and Villa is still considered a step up from Leicester, isnt it?
He is kinda in Traores spot but as we saw yesterday Mahrez got fucking unplayable after he was moved in centre as an attacking central midfielder...
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He wasn't unplayable, he had far too much room and should have got a proper boot after his efforts to get Westwood sent off. Give the twat something to complain about.
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First half good second half capitulation terrible disappointed with the way we let them win the game we really need to do better.
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Anyone watching MNF on Sky would just have seen Carragher give us a proper schooling on tactical naivety at 2-1 up... Westwood so recklessly attack-minded it's illogical, gap to Sanchez huge and meant our individual errors in giving balls away for 2nd and 3rd goals were compounded. That's where Wilkins on board should be our strength, recognising and preventing that
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Can't we just sub-contract out to Carragher?
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Piss poor substitutes, real lack of vision from Tim.
Everybody watching the game could see what needed to happen after our second goal.
I'm tired and about had enough of football, after following villa for 31 years, I honestly feel I cannot watch anymore.
I can see us pulling a draw on Saturday and we are getting beaten by the knuckledraggers.
Let's face facts, we have a manager who wears his heart on his sleeve, but has the tactics of a chimpanzee lumping turds.
I can't believe I'm saying it, I've given myself the following day to calm down, but I'm done.
I ain't spending anymore of my hard earned money and time on this team.
Absolutely disgraceful, think Tims going to frustrate many fans thus season.
I can't believe you're saying it. Yes the 2nd half capitulation yesterday was a disgrace, but to give up on the new team after 5 games I find amazing.
Unfortunately, that is how I feel, and I am still in that frame of mind.
I cannot imagine how much I have pumped into Villa, I'm just tired of it all.
Yes, they will need time to gel, I'm not naive, but yesterday was ludicrous.
TS is starting to worry me with his reading of a game of football, substitutions being the major cause for concern.
He won't get long from the villa faithful if this keeps happening.
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We've got enough coaches on board I firmly believe during game one of them should be sat up in the stands to get a better view of the play than being sat in the dugout where let's face it you can't see brilliantly the bigger picture.
I'd rather Robson or Wilkins in the stands with an earpiece into the dugout.
I'm still bloody fuming over this one. Pathetic.
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Vardy Goal Fuck Up 1:
Lescott got caught out of position but I was more concerned by that Mayrez was allowed to run so far unchallenged with the ball and take Ayew, Jack, Amavi and Sanchez out of the game, and then lay off the ball to be crossed with their man having also moved in to space with none of them tracking his run.
Vardy Goal Fuck Up 2:
Both Richards and Bacuna failing to get a foot on the low cross allowing Vardy to tap in past Guzan glued to his goal line.
I agree with the first point. The constant them was them running at us from deep unchallenged.
But once you whip a ball across the six yard box from that close in, it's incredibly difficult to defend. Similar with the third. People are blaming Richards, but Mahrez had all the time in the world to pick a pass from thirty yards out. In that situation it's incredibly difficult to defend a good defence splitting pass to a guy making a run from deep.
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Having read through the whole thread it is interesting to gauge reactions and comments. After defeat you will always get the 1 hour after final whistle bitter criticisms which can be knee-jerk reaction, with it settling down later with some sensible positive comments. However disappointed I may be with a result, I try not to get drawn in to posting comments and ending up in a battle of the posts with others on who did what or, usually, who didn't do what.
People always have their favourites and have to have somebody to be the fall guy but football is a team game which includes not only those on the pitch but the players and management on the sidelines. I do not think anybody came out of the match with any credit for the last 20 minutes. Leicester are not a team of exceptional players but they play with desire, enthusiasm and at pace when they can see a chance. You have to kill them off when you have the chance and Sherwood was right in saying that the game was won at 70 minutes. He clearly did not mean it literally but at 2-0, you should not be losing it.
As somebody else commented, we were caught yesterday with not good options from the bench. Having lost Gana, we had no defensive midfield cover for Sanchez and Westwood who would tire as the game progressed. Sherwood should have had a plan for this eventuality as it would have been a high probability. Rightly in my opinion, somebody commented that Veretout being thrown on in that position would have been the equivalent of throwing Ayew into the game. We are still short in central midfield when we have injuries, so there has to be another plan. One that could have been used was to bring on Clark and go with 3 centre backs, allowing the fullbacks to push out wider and a bit further forward. We have also seen Clark playing defensive midfield earlier in his career and either him or Ilori should be considered as players sitting infront of the defence when we need to try and close the game up.
One of our main problems is that we are too lightweight. We have too few players that can put their foot in and we are liable to be got at defensively as we were yesterday. When they start to tire physically and mentally it is the likes of Grealish, Gill, Sinclair and even Westwood drift out of the game.
I am not convinced at all with Bacuna at right back for the reasons others have mentioned and I do not see Hutton being the answer. Defensively, he lose concentration and allows players to get goalside of him from crosses. He was as much at fault as Guzan for the 3rd goal as he allowed Dyer to get in front of him. Hutton is a big bloke and will not be knocked off the ball if he gets himself in the right position first. The same thing happened at home to Stoke last season. I know the next two matches are high pressure derby games but I would be inclined to give Ilori a go there if he is up to speed with fitness.
Sherwood was right in that all 3 goals came from individual errors, either directly in the finish or in the build up. Mistakes are not the manager's fault, other than him drumming into players that they should not mess around with the ball, although even somebody of Lescott's experience was guilty of it, so it is easier said than done. Sherwood had been trying to talk up Gabby's confidence all week and I was disappointed that he didn't take on the chance rather than playing that poor pass across goal to Sinclair.
As I said earlier, nobody came out with any credit for the final 20 minutes but as long as they all learn from it, we can move on. We should not lose sight of the positives from the first half when we dominated the game and with a bit more composure, we could have gone in a couple of goals ahead.
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There were plenty of options better than what we did.
Hutton at right back with Bacuna in front of him
Clark at left back with Amavi ditto. Clark as a third centre back for the last 10 mins. Veretout in midfield - at least he'd have run around and worked hard, and known the position.
TBH even Richardson would have been a more logical choice than Ayew or Gestede.
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Bringing Ayew on was pure self indulgence from sherwood .
Stupid beyond belief.
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Bringing Ayew on was pure self indulgence from sherwood .
Stupid beyond belief.
A mistake on what was needed, yes but self indulgence is just rubbish.
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I think it's all been said about TS bizarre choice of substitutions and tactical naivety when staring victory in the face. I'd just like to register my opinions on a couple of players. Firstly Guzan. Sherwood knew he couldn't trust him after his calamitous performance v man c last year, used Given thereafter yet for some reason chose not to replace in the summer.Guzan repaid his manager by allowing a fuckin midget to mug him off for the winner v Leicester.Second Sanchez. 99% a quality player but again T'S knows he can't trust him not to make a costly mistake EVERY game. Thirdly.Ayew.He @ 12 m? WTF?
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I think it's all been said about TS bizarre choice of substitutions and tactical naivety when staring victory in the face. I'd just like to register my opinions on a couple of players. Firstly Guzan. Sherwood knew he couldn't trust him after his calamitous performance v man c last year, used Given thereafter yet for some reason chose not to replace in the summer.Guzan repaid his manager by allowing a fuckin midget to mug him off for the winner v Leicester.Second Sanchez. 99% a quality player but again T'S knows he can't trust him not to make a costly mistake EVERY game. Thirdly.Ayew.He @ 12 m? WTF?
Is Bono as much of a ****** in real life as he is on the TV?
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Richardson should have come on and been told to sit on Mahrez, simple as that. I didn't realise he was on the bench to be honest, but since I saw that he was, I am convinced that was the logical choice. He could have played in that channel where Mahrez was doing the damage. It was clearly a better shot that throwing on a couple of forwards who are still finding their feet.
I have seen a lot of people in the media (plus Richards) saying we are a new team and it will take a time. It's worth pointing out that the entire front six were all here under Lambert, and only three players who arrived in the summer started. Two were the centre backs, who most would agree weren't the problem (especially Richards) and they have also played together before so shouldn't have too bad a case of new player syndrome. Of course our slightly dim manager threw on a couple of new players at the wrong time, when he had two or three experienced players he could have turned to instead. I like Sherwood but it was absolutely idiotic, and I am still angry.
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Yep Veretout or Richardson could have done a job man marking Mahrez in the middle of the park...they are both fit enough to bust a gut for half hour and would have nullified most of their attacking threat. Clark and Hutton should have also been utilised to see out the game leaving either Gabby or Sinclair as the pace outlet up front. Hindsight is a bitch.
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Anyone watching MNF on Sky would just have seen Carragher give us a proper schooling on tactical naivety at 2-1 up... Westwood so recklessly attack-minded it's illogical, gap to Sanchez huge and meant our individual errors in giving balls away for 2nd and 3rd goals were compounded. That's where Wilkins on board should be our strength, recognising and preventing that
To be honest its ok being in a studio 24 hrs after the event and having the wisdom of probably an army of backroom analysts creating your script. Its not the same as standing in a ground level dug out is it in real time. These ex pro's do my head in and reminds me of the old adage
"Those that can, do
those that can't , teach"
Although the game I must admit was lost due to managerial errors we have to accept that Sherwood is as new and inexperienced as half of the team are playing together - time will tell if he learns from the mistakes
Overall I much prefer watching this brand of football that the shite we had to endure for the last 4 years
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Piss poor substitutes, real lack of vision from Tim.
Everybody watching the game could see what needed to happen after our second goal.
I'm tired and about had enough of football, after following villa for 31 years, I honestly feel I cannot watch anymore.
I can see us pulling a draw on Saturday and we are getting beaten by the knuckledraggers.
Let's face facts, we have a manager who wears his heart on his sleeve, but has the tactics of a chimpanzee lumping turds.
I can't believe I'm saying it, I've given myself the following day to calm down, but I'm done.
I ain't spending anymore of my hard earned money and time on this team.
Absolutely disgraceful, think Tims going to frustrate many fans thus season.
I can't believe you're saying it. Yes the 2nd half capitulation yesterday was a disgrace, but to give up on the new team after 5 games I find amazing.
Unfortunately, that is how I feel, and I am still in that frame of mind.
I cannot imagine how much I have pumped into Villa, I'm just tired of it all.
Yes, they will need time to gel, I'm not naive, but yesterday was ludicrous.
TS is starting to worry me with his reading of a game of football, substitutions being the major cause for concern.
He won't get long from the villa faithful if this keeps happening.
Why would something start to worry you if you've given up on it?
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Sherwood guilty as charged on this one. The subs were beyond comprehension. Really really concerning as I don't think a single person watching the game made sense of them. Another few managerial moments like this and the TS is a chancer camp will have proved thier case.
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I think it's all been said about TS bizarre choice of substitutions and tactical naivety when staring victory in the face. I'd just like to register my opinions on a couple of players. Firstly Guzan. Sherwood knew he couldn't trust him after his calamitous performance v man c last year, used Given thereafter yet for some reason chose not to replace in the summer.Guzan repaid his manager by allowing a fuckin midget to mug him off for the winner v Leicester.Second Sanchez. 99% a quality player but again T'S knows he can't trust him not to make a costly mistake EVERY game. Thirdly.Ayew.He @ 12 m? WTF?
Is Bono as much of a c*** in real life as he is on the TV?
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Couldn't give a shit about Bono. All I care about is AVFC
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We've got enough coaches on board I firmly believe during game one of them should be sat up in the stands to get a better view of the play than being sat in the dugout where let's face it you can't see brilliantly the bigger picture.
I'd rather Robson or Wilkins in the stands with an earpiece into the dugout.
I'm still bloody fuming over this one. Pathetic.
Been saying this for donkeys years. The perspective of how things are panning out on the pitch must be so much clearer from a seat higher up then being stood at ground level. It doesn't have to be the manager, as he can still be stood down there shouting at the players, but could be the trusted lieutenant who can then relay his views down to the manager. If I recall JG when he got his touchline ban said it opened his eyes sitting up there and gave him a completely different insight into what was happening on the pitch. However, all managers are actors really and think they have to be in the public eye at all times so you won't see many in the stands.
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Couldn't give a shit about Bono. All I care about is AVFC
Might be worth changing your username as it will cause havoc on here with people's internal jukeboxes.
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As somebody else commented, we were caught yesterday with not good options from the bench. Having lost Gana, we had no defensive midfield cover for Sanchez and Westwood who would tire as the game progressed. Sherwood should have had a plan for this eventuality as it would have been a high probability. Rightly in my opinion, somebody commented that Veretout being thrown on in that position would have been the equivalent of throwing Ayew into the game. We are still short in central midfield when we have injuries, so there has to be another plan.
How is that then? If you're happy to accept that we were missing additional presence in central midfield, why would putting a highly-rated, energetic central midfielder on be the equivalent of putting a wide-forward on?
Clark (as you mention) and Richardson have both played that position for us in the past as well. Ayew didn't come on because there was no central midfield options on the bench, he came on because Sherwood didn't think that the central midfield needed strengthening.
And a minor point - we didn't necessarily need to replace either Sanchez or Westwood, we needed to give them additional help. Veretout running around or even Richardson just chasing Mahrez would have made things much easier for them. See West Ham last night. 2-0 up after an hour, take off Lanzini and stick another defensive midfielder on. See the game out at 2-0.
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Just as I was calming down I saw a quote from Sherwood congratulating Ranieri on "making the changes". I'm sure Leicester feel the same way about Sherwood.
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We've got enough coaches on board I firmly believe during game one of them should be sat up in the stands to get a better view of the play than being sat in the dugout where let's face it you can't see brilliantly the bigger picture.
I'd rather Robson or Wilkins in the stands with an earpiece into the dugout.
I'm still bloody fuming over this one. Pathetic.
Been saying this for donkeys years. The perspective of how things are panning out on the pitch must be so much clearer from a seat higher up then being stood at ground level. It doesn't have to be the manager, as he can still be stood down there shouting at the players, but could be the trusted lieutenant who can then relay his views down to the manager. If I recall JG when he got his touchline ban said it opened his eyes sitting up there and gave him a completely different insight into what was happening on the pitch. However, all managers are actors really and think they have to be in the public eye at all times so you won't see many in the stands.
I'd had 6 pints and was stood right at the back of the stand and even I could see the problem.
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I think it's all been said about TS bizarre choice of substitutions and tactical naivety when staring victory in the face. I'd just like to register my opinions on a couple of players. Firstly Guzan. Sherwood knew he couldn't trust him after his calamitous performance v man c last year, used Given thereafter yet for some reason chose not to replace in the summer.Guzan repaid his manager by allowing a fuckin midget to mug him off for the winner v Leicester.Second Sanchez. 99% a quality player but again T'S knows he can't trust him not to make a costly mistake EVERY game. Thirdly.Ayew.He @ 12 m? WTF?
Is Bono as much of a c*** in real life as he is on the TV?
Sanchez was doing two peoples jobs in the middle of the park after Leicester brought another winger on. All the more reason why we should have brought Veretout on. I still don't see why Westwood is getting regular football.
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Anyone watching MNF on Sky would just have seen Carragher give us a proper schooling on tactical naivety at 2-1 up... Westwood so recklessly attack-minded it's illogical, gap to Sanchez huge and meant our individual errors in giving balls away for 2nd and 3rd goals were compounded. That's where Wilkins on board should be our strength, recognising and preventing that
I've recorded it. I had a feeling we'd get slated.
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Couldn't give a shit about Bono. All I care about is AVFC
Might be worth changing your username as it will cause havoc on here with people's internal jukeboxes.
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It's a nickname. Relates to my surname. It's never been a problem before. I might have told change it rather keep answering non Villa related questions. ;)
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It's a nickname. Relates to my surname. It's never been a problem before. I might have told change it rather keep answering non Villa related questions. ;)
Yeh. Why not change it to Bono?
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cut it out U2.
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cut it out U2.
Please
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cut it out U2.
made me chortle
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Cos he's a nob an I'd get more stupid questions
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Cos he's a nob an I'd get more stupid questions
How's the drummer?
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Cos he's a nob an I'd get more stupid questions
How's the drummer?
Barry Mullet Sr isn't it?
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Cos he's a nob an I'd get more stupid questions
How's the drummer?
Da drummer is foine
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As somebody else commented, we were caught yesterday with not good options from the bench. Having lost Gana, we had no defensive midfield cover for Sanchez and Westwood who would tire as the game progressed. Sherwood should have had a plan for this eventuality as it would have been a high probability. Rightly in my opinion, somebody commented that Veretout being thrown on in that position would have been the equivalent of throwing Ayew into the game. We are still short in central midfield when we have injuries, so there has to be another plan.
How is that then? If you're happy to accept that we were missing additional presence in central midfield, why would putting a highly-rated, energetic central midfielder on be the equivalent of putting a wide-forward on?
Clark (as you mention) and Richardson have both played that position for us in the past as well. Ayew didn't come on because there was no central midfield options on the bench, he came on because Sherwood didn't think that the central midfield needed strengthening.
And a minor point - we didn't necessarily need to replace either Sanchez or Westwood, we needed to give them additional help. Veretout running around or even Richardson just chasing Mahrez would have made things much easier for them. See West Ham last night. 2-0 up after an hour, take off Lanzini and stick another defensive midfielder on. See the game out at 2-0.
The comment was meant as a new player not yet up to speed as opposed to positional (midfield compared with forward).
Again, I didn't say replace Sanchez or Westwood, I said cover them as they tired i.e. strengthen the position.
I think where we struggle with the squad is that most of our players are one position players or if they can play other positions, they are quite a bit weaker. This means that we tend to replace like for like.
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Veretout/Richardson were the obvious choices to bring on to help the MFs already there but struggling with the increase in Leicester numbers.
Bringing Ayew on put more pressure on players who were already under pressure.
We didn't play well for 60/70 minutes as a few have said...we were under pressure from the 46th minute...our 2nd goal came very much against the run of play...what was it that Sherwood couldn't see?
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Anyone watching MNF on Sky would just have seen Carragher give us a proper schooling on tactical naivety at 2-1 up... Westwood so recklessly attack-minded it's illogical, gap to Sanchez huge and meant our individual errors in giving balls away for 2nd and 3rd goals were compounded. That's where Wilkins on board should be our strength, recognising and preventing that
That made interested viewing particularly when Lescott seems to have a word with Westwood not to go bombing up the pitch. Sanchez was literally stranded as our only midfielder at times with both Westwood and Jack being closer to Ayew, Sinclair and Gestede. The question has to be asked whether that was an attempt by TS to grab a third rather than see the game out or the players being naive...if it was the latter then why didn't TS identify and rectify it; if it was the first then its naivety at its most extreme.
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Just watched the first half of the game recorded on Sky...we pretty much dominated the game in terms of possession and chances, silenced their happy clappy fans and scored a fantastic goal...but any one would think that Leicester were Barcelona so much was the love in and bias commentary/punditry.
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Veretout/Richardson were the obvious choices to bring on to help the MFs already there but struggling with the increase in Leicester numbers.
Bringing Ayew on put more pressure on players who were already under pressure.
We didn't play well for 60/70 minutes as a few have said...we were under pressure from the 46th minute...our 2nd goal came very much against the run of play...what was it that Sherwood couldn't see?
the pitch obviously