Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Dave on August 29, 2015, 04:51:55 PM
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Not great, but there are signs of a team coming together.
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Not good enough, we won't play a poorer side than that. Gil looked good when he came on, but Clark's error for the second was dreadful. We desperately need another forward, because Gestede looks a bit short of quality.
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I thought we were ok. Better than I expected given the personnel
We've got to get a centre fed tho
Gestede was appallingly bad
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At least the games are exciting this year. So frustrating not to win though. Kozak needs to feature more and defensively we look poor. Better going forward, arguably worse at the back?
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Anyone who thinks we won't be in a relegation scrap this year needs to think again.
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Luck is not on our side. But signs of a team. New signings look good. Gestede maybe not so much yet.
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gestede is too static
gil should have started
every game teams exploit the space between the centre halfs and the full backs
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Note to self.
Avoid match thread until after Xmas, ridiculous some of the nonsense posted today.
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Really disappointed
I'd be pretty pissed off if I was kozak.
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Frustrating result, because we deserved to win. But the very fact that we deserved to win is encouraging in itself.
When the players have got to know each other better and everyone's settled, we're going to be a pretty decent side.
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No excuses. Not beating Sunderland at home is totally unacceptable. It says a lot that even with the amount of work done in the Summer that we are still well short.
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Sunderland are shocking. They won't pick up many points playing like that.
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We won't dominate a game more this season and not win. In fact we'll win games with far less possession and chances. Throw in Traore and Grealish and you have to think we'd have won that. Very frustrating but it is a side that is maturing. Tough though this is but we need to be patient. And after so many years of gash there isn't much patience left in the tank.
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very dissapointing, Clark not good enough, Westward wastefull, unable to beat a very poor Sunderland team at home
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We have looked reasonable in our last 2 games but then again they have been at home to Notts County and Sunderland. Much better movement in the final third today but we should be winning games like this. Odd that Tim didn't use his subs again today.
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Blimey, after the eye-bleeding bollocks served up by McLeish and Lambert in recent seasons, I'm a bit surprised at the way people are laying into that performance. I thought it was OK!
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Either Veretout needs to settle in fast, or Westwood has to get better when he has the ball in advanced positions. He was decent overall and it's good to see him getting into such positions, but we really needed him to bury that chance which Gestede laid onto him. Gueye looks a quality player, but it's not his game to go looking for goals; same with Sanchez, who broke up play very well.
Gil showed some good signs when he came on; Bacuna was largely wasteful; Amavi terrifies me but I suppose it's in a good way; Clark and Gestede were disappointing. I wonder if Sherwood was seriously thinking about another change - Ayew, Kozak, Veretout?
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No excuses. Not beating Sunderland at home is totally unacceptable. It says a lot that even with the amount of work done in the Summer that we are still well short.
This
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We could and probably should have won this game easily. We had some really good moments particularly in the first half where we could have scored plenty but again we failed to capitalise.
There were however several times where they could have scored and we were lucky to get away with it. I honestly believe that we should have replaced Guzan, he doesn't command the area or in my opinion give the defenders any confidence.
Both a defender and goalkeeper should be brought in before the close of the transfer window.
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A point on the board. We don't know if the flu bug was still in some the guys out there today and with Grealish not playing who lets be honest is our most creative force then I'll take that. Any other day I think we would of put 4 past them, Micah should of put one away.
Evolution not revolution.
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we had key players out but should have won. Unless we have our strongest side out week in week out we are in for a long slog. More needed before the transfer window slams shut!
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No excuses. Not beating Sunderland at home is totally unacceptable. It says a lot that even with the amount of work done in the Summer that we are still well short.
This post brought to you in association with Hyperbole Today.
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We battered them. Plenty of positives.
Sanchez, Gana and Amavi all excellent. I agree with Matt about Gestede.
We are not going to be in a relegation scrap based off of this match, we played very well.
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Poor home record continues.
We really should have won that game
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Why does it seem like a few changes by the opposition manager seems to turn the game on it's head?
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I thought we played well. Lack a bit of class up front, but not too disappointed.
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What we don't know from today is how much the sick bug affected us and who was good enough to start. We've not had much luck on that front so far this season.
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Negatives:
Gestede is not the answer.
Gil should of been on from the start and not Bacuna.
Positives:
Sanchez and Ghana look good together.
Sinclair should now be Agbonlahor's replacement permanently.
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Is Gestede better than Kozak? I feel Libor is far and away better with his feet and certainly plays stronger.
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No excuses. Not beating Sunderland at home is totally unacceptable. It says a lot that even with the amount of work done in the Summer that we are still well short.
This post brought to you in association with Hyperbole Today.
True
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fucking hell, we signed a whole team and lots of people, correctly, said it was going to take a while for people to settle and yet we're apparently in a relegation battle after 4 games, some people really need to chill out.
Today Amavi, Sinclair, Gueye and Westwood were superb, Richards, Sinclair and Hutton were very good and Gil was very good when he came on. On top of that Guzan had nothing to do. Yes there was a bad mistake by Clark for their equaliser which is a concern and Gestede looked static but there's plenty of positives and we're clearly improving so lets give it a rest on the doom mongering for a couple of weeks.
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fucking hell, we signed a whole team and lots of people, correctly, said it was going to take a while for people to settle and yet we're apparently in a relegation battle after 4 games, some people really need to chill out.
Today Amavi, Sinclair, Gueye and Westwood were superb, Richards, Sinclair and Hutton were very good and Gil was very good when he came on. On top of that Guzan had nothing to do. Yes there was a bad mistake by Clark for their equaliser which is a concern and Gestede looked static but there's plenty of positives and we're clearly improving so lets give it a rest on the doom mongering for a couple of weeks.
Claps
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Ok, we played quite well, but it is hard to accept not to win at home with Sunderland that - apart from Defoe - appeared a very poor team.
I have always the impression that, despite our great tradition, our marvellous fans, our beautiful stadium, etc., for one thing or another we are nit able to reach the level that other teams like Palace, West Ham, Swansea and similar reach without problems.
That's frustrating....
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No excuses. Not beating Sunderland at home is totally unacceptable. It says a lot that even with the amount of work done in the Summer that we are still well short.
This
Is
Why
I
Shall
Avoid
The
Match
Thread
For
A
Few
Months
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Some real hilarity in the match thread today.
Genuinely struggling to believe anyone actually thinks we are deep in it and playing must-win games in August.
Absolutely risible.
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Blimey, after the eye-bleeding bollocks served up by McLeish and Lambert in recent seasons, I'm a bit surprised at the way people are laying into that performance. I thought it was OK!
I feel much the same mate. There's unnecessary gloominess at times from some.
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Why couldn't they have kept Cattermole on? Bastards.
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Note to self.
Avoid match thread until after Xmas, ridiculous some of the nonsense posted today.
I agree.
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Gil should have come on sooner. Bacuna was horrific.
I thought we largely did okay until the final third. Their second goal was woeful from Clark. We've got to cut out the stupid errors.
Gestede had a game to forget, albeit he improved in the second half. I think he's too slow to be anything other than a potential impact player. Kozak is different in as much as he finds pockets of space in the box and is an instinctive finisher. Of the two my preference would be Libor, but much depends on how his legs hold up.
I think the game today was crying out for Grealish and Troare. We'd probably have mauled them with those two. Grealish just draws defenders to him and opens space for others, whilst Traore would have had a field day against their left back.
I do think there's some good signs though. Gana and Amavi look quality. Sanchez looks like he's up to the league now. We just need a bit of luck in being able to put out our strongest 11.
Another striker is an absolute must though. We need a target man who has some mobility.
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No excuses. Not beating Sunderland at home is totally unacceptable. It says a lot that even with the amount of work done in the Summer that we are still well short.
This post brought to you in association with Hyperbole Today.
True
Also mentions "all the work done in the summer" straight after saying there are "no excuses" without spotting the enormous link between those two lines.
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I thought we look a really good team in patches. There is much to able, we pay nice football work hard and the midfield is very decent, but we need a centre half and a striker by Tuesday desperately.
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Ok, we played quite well, but it is hard to accept not to win at home with Sunderland that - apart from Defoe - appeared a very poor team.
I have always the impression that, despite our great tradition, our marvellous fans, our beautiful stadium, etc., for one thing or another we are nit able to reach the level that other teams like Palace, West Ham, Swansea and similar reach without problems.
That's frustrating....
Yes frustrating but don't you think this is the most complete the side has looked so far this season. And that's even without two of our most potent attacking threats in Traore and Grealish. There are going to be games like this and ones where we play worse and win. This side will get better and better as the season goes on. This time last year we were sitting top of the table and it got worse and worse. It's not how you start it's what happens in the middle and end that matters.
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I thought we were ok. Better than I expected given the personnel
We've got to get a centre fed tho
Gestede was appallingly bad
Need a keeper, centre back, right back and a forward. Clark has regressed from last season, Bacuna and Hutton are mediocre and Gestede not ready.
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I guess August is just a month of throwaway games? :o
In any of the last five years a few extra points in August would've changed the entire complexion of the campaign. We need to win when we are supposed to. We seem to have gelled if I'm honest. The midfield plays with great flow and continuity and the backs did well today except for Clark.
Today is a home match we had to win.
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What do people think about the challenge by Clark that got him his yellow? Necessary or unnecessary? Because I think that was decisive in their equaliser, in the sense that if he wasn't on a yellow, there's no way he would've allowed Lens to get past him - would've just hauled him down just outside the penalty area and challenged someone to uncork another freeick.
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I expect we're going to see a mixed bag of opinions on this thread tonight andif so, I can totally understand why.
On one hand, that was easily our best, most cohesive performance of the season so far. On the other we were playing a truly atrocious Sunderland who will be there or thereabouts in the relegation shake up come May.
No question we should have won, but as I said last week, I have no confidence in our defensive organisation at all. I just cannot see what many others see in 'our best defender ' Clark.
And if Gestede and Bacuna are premier league footballers I'll eat my headgear.
good to see Gil back, looked a little rusty but the little magic man's a class act. Why the hell Sherwood didn't bring another attacker on with 15 to go is a mystery. Possibly because it would've meant taking Westwood off which seems loathe to do these days, for some reason.
In conclusion, I'm encouraged and concerned in equal measures. Lescott will help I think, but if we don't get a striker in the next few days we really will struggle. It was THE most critical thing we needed to do after Benteke and early signs are, we've spunked 16million quid up the wall.
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Played well, clapped off. OP summed it up. Unlucky.
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I thought we look a really good team in patches. There is much to able, we pay nice football work hard and the midfield is very decent, but we need a centre half and a striker by Tuesday desperately.
Don't you think Libor might be the one who could bag a few....if Tim gives him a chance?
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I guess August is just a month of throwaway games? :o
In any of the last five years a few extra points in August would've changed the entire complexion of the campaign. We need to win when we are supposed to. We seem to have gelled if I'm honest. The midfield plays with great flow and continuity and the backs did well today except for Clark.
Today is a home match we had to win.
There are no "have to win" games in August.
At least not in football.
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I guess August is just a month of throwaway games? :o
In any of the last five years a few extra points in August would've changed the entire complexion of the campaign. We need to win when we are supposed to. We seem to have gelled if I'm honest. The midfield plays with great flow and continuity and the backs did well today except for Clark.
Today is a home match we had to win.
Right, because getting all those points last season sure set up the rest of our campaign.
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I thought overall Amavi, Gueye, Sanchez and Sinclair did well. But we need to be a lot more clinical and Bacuna isn't good enough to play wing forward. Clark has got to be better as well.
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I guess August is just a month of throwaway games? :o
In any of the last five years a few extra points in August would've changed the entire complexion of the campaign. We need to win when we are supposed to. We seem to have gelled if I'm honest. The midfield plays with great flow and continuity and the backs did well today except for Clark.
Today is a home match we had to win.
There are no "have to win" games in August.
At least not in football.
With all due respect I completely disagree, when 38 points is all you can count on.
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A valiant attempt, but not really good enough against a weak team.
Sinclair, Gana and Richards were the stand-outs. Special mentions for Hutton, Westwood, Gil and Sanchez.
I wouldn't be upset if Bacuna didn't play another game for us this season, he can go and join Gabby watching from the stands. Clark needs to step it up too, let's hope Lescott is an upgrade.
Kozak should have replaced Gestede after 60mins.
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Disappointed that we didn't win, but it's a new team that will gel in time. Back above Chelsea in the league.
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Gil should have come on sooner. Bacuna was horrific.
I thought we largely did okay until the final third. Their second goal was woeful from Clark. We've got to cut out the stupid errors.
Gestede had a game to forget, albeit he improved in the second half. I think he's too slow to be anything other than a potential impact player. Kozak is different in as much as he finds pockets of space in the box and is an instinctive finisher. Of the two my preference would be Libor, but much depends on how his legs hold up.
I think the game today was crying out for Grealish and Troare. We'd probably have mauled them with those two. Grealish just draws defenders to him and opens space for others, whilst Traore would have had a field day against their left back.
I do think there's some good signs though. Gana and Amavi look quality. Sanchez looks like he's up to the league now. We just need a bit of luck in being able to put out our strongest 11.
Another striker is an absolute must though. We need a target man who has some mobility.
This sums it up perfectly for me.
Whilst disappointed by todays result - I think its a vast improvement on recent seasons and overall I think we were unlucky today not to take all 3 pts.
Hoping we go get Charlie Austin now.
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I guess August is just a month of throwaway games? :o
In any of the last five years a few extra points in August would've changed the entire complexion of the campaign. We need to win when we are supposed to. We seem to have gelled if I'm honest. The midfield plays with great flow and continuity and the backs did well today except for Clark.
Today is a home match we had to win.
There are no "have to win" games in August.
At least not in football.
With all due respect I completely disagree, when 38 points is all you can count on.
"38 points is all you can count on"?
What does that even mean?
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Grealish and Traore do things that none of our players can do. And we were missing that exact bit of magic today to finish Sunderland off.
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No excuses. Not beating Sunderland at home is totally unacceptable. It says a lot that even with the amount of work done in the Summer that we are still well short.
This post brought to you in association with Hyperbole Today.
Sunderland are bloody awful. If we want to be clear of trouble, we have to be taking maximum points from games like this.
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Blimey, after the eye-bleeding bollocks served up by McLeish and Lambert in recent seasons, I'm a bit surprised at the way people are laying into that performance. I thought it was OK!
Every post match Thread is the same for a few pages if we don't win. People can't see past the result. We were reasonable against a bad team and created loads of chances. The problems were at either end of the pitch. Gestede is an option but he isn't the man to lead the line all season.
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I guess August is just a month of throwaway games? :o
In any of the last five years a few extra points in August would've changed the entire complexion of the campaign. We need to win when we are supposed to. We seem to have gelled if I'm honest. The midfield plays with great flow and continuity and the backs did well today except for Clark.
Today is a home match we had to win.
There are no "have to win" games in August.
At least not in football.
With all due respect I completely disagree, when 38 points is all you can count on.
So what is the upshot, then, of having drawn a match rather than won it with 34 league games left?
There must be some dreadful consequence with it being a must win game that we haven't won?
Don't want to single you out, and I am normally at the half empty rather than half full end of the scale myself, but some of the overreaction today is amongst the most nuts stuff I've seen on here in years
"Deep n trouble", " right in it ", " must win game".
In August? Sorry but that is hilarious
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No excuses. Not beating Sunderland at home is totally unacceptable. It says a lot that even with the amount of work done in the Summer that we are still well short.
This post brought to you in association with Hyperbole Today.
Sunderland are bloody awful. If we want to be clear of trouble, we have to be taking maximum points from games like this.
I'm with you.
I don't think we played bad at all, but three points is why we play. That was always going to be one of the easiest home matches of the year. Had to win.
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I would love to see this side given a chance when they are all fit and up to speed.
Guzan
Hutton Richards Clark/Lescott Amavi
Sanchez Ghana
Adama Gil Grealish
Ayew
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Yet again I've left VP feeling entertained. Positive signs of a team there. Frustrating that we get punished for errors but on another day we'd have scored 5 or 6.
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I thought we played well for the most part today but in the end were carrying too many concrete blocks to get over the line.
Sherwood - This was no day to come over all O'Neill/McLeish/Labert and shit a brick when writing out the team sheet. If Carles Gil cannot get a start at home in a game like this, when does he? Again we see the opposition make an adjustment and there is no response at all.
Gestede - Looks totally out of it. What little he has to offer is disappearing fast as his confidence goes out of the window. I could make out whether he missed an own goal from 6 inches out or actually clearing a goalbound shot on behalf of the opposition.
Hutton - Saw so much of the ball in space and yet did so little with it. All Sunderland had to do was clog up the other flank and it was all but job done. Amavi had a much harder job yet stuck at it and still worked a couple of potentially match winning positions.
Luck - Another shot that is easily covered by Guzan gets deflected out of his reach. Thank you God.
It's not a bad point truth be told, and for the most part a good performance, but we do need a credible striker very quickly.
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I guess August is just a month of throwaway games? :o
In any of the last five years a few extra points in August would've changed the entire complexion of the campaign. We need to win when we are supposed to. We seem to have gelled if I'm honest. The midfield plays with great flow and continuity and the backs did well today except for Clark.
Today is a home match we had to win.
There are no "have to win" games in August.
At least not in football.
With all due respect I completely disagree, when 38 points is all you can count on.
So what is the upshot, then, of having drawn a match rather than won it with 34 league games left?
There must be some dreadful consequence with it being a must win game that we haven't won?
Don't want to single you out, and I am normally at the half empty rather than half full end of the scale myself, but some of the overreaction today is amongst the most nuts stuff I've seen on here in years
"Deep n trouble", " right in it ", " must win game".
In August? Sorry but that is hilarious
Not what I said or even implied.
Sunderland at home this campaign (I don't care if it's in August, December or May) is a game we have to win. The point value and importance of victory doesn't change. Don't treat August like preseason, that is incredibly naive.
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I doubt we'll face poorer opposition all season so it's a concern we didn't win it. Doesn't matter how much you dominate or how well you play, if you are going to gift goals away through piss poor defending you aint going to win many. We pretty much gifted two to Palace last week and one today. Clark has been at fault for two of them. I've never understood how people rate the bloke, I think he's way out of his depth. He's too weak and too slow for the PL and his decision making is poor. That "challenge" today was sub-schoolboy error standard, just awful. At least there were signs of some attacking cohesion coming together and we were a bit unlucky with the one that came back off the post.
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I think there is plenty to be positive about from that performance - albeit we didn't get the win that I thought we probably did enough to deserve.
Richards looks like a very handy centre-back, and Amavi seems like he could be extremely good indeed, and he's doing pretty well already. Hutton was largely untroubled at right-back, and these days he seems like a fairly reliable option there.
Gana and Sanchez is potentially a very solid base for our midfield. They are both mobile, tenacious and (usually, in Sanchez's case) good with a pass - Gana's pass for the second goal was excellent, as an example.
Scott Sinclair is really finding some form…without seemingly doing too much! He's a classy player, I think, in that he is frequently in just the right place. He is much better than Agbobnlahor.
The way we are trying to play, and are getting better at doing, is good. We look a lot better than we have at most points during the last few seasons and even if results might not be as we hope, the style of play is getting there. Slick passing, entertaining goals, actual honest-to-God movement from our players….we actually look like a Premier League team this season.
So, disappointing not to win, but I think we'll do OK. As others have mentioned, we have a lot of new players, and a brand new coaching team. We have to be patient for things to 'click'.
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I would love to see this side given a chance when they are all fit and up to speed.
Guzan
Hutton Richards Clark/Lescott Amavi
Sanchez Ghana
Adama Gil Grealish
Ayew
Im afraid you can only pick eleven.Sanchez and an entire country would be unfair...and the ref would possibly notice.!
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Sorry when you said it was a "must win game " I thought you meant it was a must win game
I don't like not taking chances either but going into hyperbolic panic mode with 34 games left to play is just absurd
Sunderland at home is not a game we have to win, either. There aren't any such games until you start running out of matches left to play.
I assume Bournemouth away was not on this have to win list, mind, so imagine you'll be balancing this result out with that one?
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I would love to see this side given a chance when they are all fit and up to speed.
Guzan
Hutton Richards Clark/Lescott Amavi
Sanchez Ghana
Adama Gil Grealish
Ayew
Great. Are you going to be the one to explain that to Scott Sinclair?
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Sorry when you said it was a "must win game " I thought you meant it was a must win game
I don't like not taking chances either but going into hyperbolic panic mode with 34 games left to play is just absurd
Sunderland at home is not a game we have to win, either. There aren't any such games until you start running out of matches left to play.
I assume Bournemouth away was not on this have to win list, mind, so imagine you'll be balancing this result out with that one?
What a terrible approach.
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General agreement on the train home is frustrating, but there's something coming together.
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I'm a bit confused as to why Gil is having such a hard time getting game time and what does Kozak need to do to catch a break?!
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General agreement on the train home is frustrating, but there's something coming together.
The midfield already looks pretty "gelled"
Gana, Westwood and Sanchez knock it around very well, and having Amavi and Hutton getting involved also is a huge plus.
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Sorry when you said it was a "must win game " I thought you meant it was a must win game
I don't like not taking chances either but going into hyperbolic panic mode with 34 games left to play is just absurd
Sunderland at home is not a game we have to win, either. There aren't any such games until you start running out of matches left to play.
I assume Bournemouth away was not on this have to win list, mind, so imagine you'll be balancing this result out with that one?
What a terrible approach.
That's not remotely at all what he implied. And especially in August. It's reality though that when games run out you need points for various reasons not just staying up. But right now clearly we are building something and coming together. I don't think that's hard to see irrespective of today's result. The perfomance was very encouraging.
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No excuses. Not beating Sunderland at home is totally unacceptabledisappointing. It says a lot that even with the amount of work done in the Summer that we are still well short. it's amazing that we're close to looking like a team already.
Close to the correct answer. B-
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We're a work in progress and that can be very frustrating, but I think the signs are that we'll settle down as the season progresses and become a much better team than we have been for these last few years. I know stats can be misleading, but when was the last time we had 21 shots recorded on goal in one game?
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We're a work in progress and that can be very frustrating, but I think the signs are that we'll settle down as the season progresses and become a much better team than we have been for these last few years. I know stats can be misleading, but when was the last time we had 21 shots recorded on goal in one game?
I think it took us until late December last season to get to 20 shots on goal.
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We're a work in progress and that can be very frustrating, but I think the signs are that we'll settle down as the season progresses and become a much better team than we have been for these last few years. I know stats can be misleading, but when was the last time we had 21 shots recorded on goal in one game?
That might well be more than we managed in Lambert's last 38 games together.
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Sorry when you said it was a "must win game " I thought you meant it was a must win game
I don't like not taking chances either but going into hyperbolic panic mode with 34 games left to play is just absurd
Sunderland at home is not a game we have to win, either. There aren't any such games until you start running out of matches left to play.
I assume Bournemouth away was not on this have to win list, mind, so imagine you'll be balancing this result out with that one?
What a terrible approach.
But still miles better than the wailing loudly and long that we're all doomed to inevitable relegation just because we're only twelfth in the league.
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I felt a bit sorry for our front two today as we were so predictable in throwing crosses into the box and the Sunderland defence won the vast majority. Only on the very odd occasion when we played it on the deck and ran at them did we ever look like scoring. Sinclair's second being the perfect example. Neither Sinclair or Gestede were in the match much but that was more down to tactics than anything else. There was an improvement when Gil came on but over 90 minutes we made it very difficult for both to get involved in the game.
On a positive note, Sanchez and Gueye look to be forming a great partnership though it did look like Gueye was tiring for the last 15 minutes, as did Amavi who had a great first half again but never manages to repeat it 2nd half. As much as I appreciate Westwood, he's no attacking midfielder and today it showed, wasting a couple of the few real opportunities we created. Bacuna should thank his lucky stars he's got a new contract. Not his best today bu a very long way.
Hutton put in a real shift, getting forward plenty of times and still managing to take care of his defensive duties. The two alongside him still worry me though. Clark was at fault for one of their goals and Richards still doesn't fill me with confidence. Both need to learn how to dominate their space.
Overall a draw was a fair result despite us having plenty of the ball we didn't really do much with it. Sunderland always looked more threatening in attack but overall they're a pretty poor side. They got lucky that we played to their strengths with our tactics.
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Sorry when you said it was a "must win game " I thought you meant it was a must win game
I don't like not taking chances either but going into hyperbolic panic mode with 34 games left to play is just absurd
Sunderland at home is not a game we have to win, either. There aren't any such games until you start running out of matches left to play.
I assume Bournemouth away was not on this have to win list, mind, so imagine you'll be balancing this result out with that one?
What a terrible approach.
But still miles better than the wailing loudly and long that we're all doomed to inevitable relegation just because we're only twelfth in the league.
I said we played well? I think bringing up we're 12th in August is worse than complaining about a result that should've been a victory.
Wailing loudly, though? Ha, I guess I left caps lock on or something?
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Have any of the bookmakers paid out on our relegation after the result today?
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Compare how we look going forward today to how we looked last time at home to Sunderland. We have the potential for this to be a more than decent side.
As for Gil, after not playing for a while was probably too much of an ask to start today after Tuesday. I'm interested in seeing the 'dive' again. And quality time wasting from them starting pretty much when they equalised. How it tookcso long to book the keeper is beyond me.
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Frustrated at the draw, but yes, there are lots of positive signs, and we were missing Adama and Grealish. And we might even strengthen us a bit more in the coming days.
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Sorry when you said it was a "must win game " I thought you meant it was a must win game
I don't like not taking chances either but going into hyperbolic panic mode with 34 games left to play is just absurd
Sunderland at home is not a game we have to win, either. There aren't any such games until you start running out of matches left to play.
I assume Bournemouth away was not on this have to win list, mind, so imagine you'll be balancing this result out with that one?
What a terrible approach.
But still miles better than the wailing loudly and long that we're all doomed to inevitable relegation just because we're only twelfth in the league.
I said we played well? I think bringing up we're 12th in August is worse than complaining about a result that should've been a victory.
I quite agree - it's ridiculous to even suggest that the league table matters at the moment, just like describing anything as a "must-win game" in August would be absolutely daft.
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Meh result against a crap side. Quite liked the way we played though.
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I tell you Sunderland will consider this a massive point gained because for all intents and purposes they are fucking awful
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How we didn't win this I'll never know.
They're fucking awful.
Going forward we looked quite good (though Gestede only bothered with 15/20 to go.
Great second goal. That's how we should be playing more often. Quick movement and passing.
Really can't believe we didn't win that.
Promising, but obviously could do better.
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Sorry when you said it was a "must win game " I thought you meant it was a must win game
I don't like not taking chances either but going into hyperbolic panic mode with 34 games left to play is just absurd
Sunderland at home is not a game we have to win, either. There aren't any such games until you start running out of matches left to play.
I assume Bournemouth away was not on this have to win list, mind, so imagine you'll be balancing this result out with that one?
Yes 'must win' at this stage is utter nonsense. It's a disappointing result, but that's principally because we should have won. Sinclair, Gueye, Amavi and Sanchez did well overall. Clark and Gestede need to up their game. Gil had a positive cameo.
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I really enjoy watching Amavi,Sanchez and Gana. They seem to know what they are doing. You will find Veretout does as well when he gets used to the pace of our game.
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Sorry when you said it was a "must win game " I thought you meant it was a must win game
I don't like not taking chances either but going into hyperbolic panic mode with 34 games left to play is just absurd
Sunderland at home is not a game we have to win, either. There aren't any such games until you start running out of matches left to play.
I assume Bournemouth away was not on this have to win list, mind, so imagine you'll be balancing this result out with that one?
What a terrible approach.
But still miles better than the wailing loudly and long that we're all doomed to inevitable relegation just because we're only twelfth in the league.
I said we played well? I think bringing up we're 12th in August is worse than complaining about a result that should've been a victory.
I quite agree - it's ridiculous to even suggest that the league table matters at the moment, just like describing anything as a "must-win game" in August would be absolutely daft.
How do you figure? I thought collecting points was the name of the game, no?
Are February points worth more than August points? Or do points only matter when you really need them?
I'd like to avoid the desperation, you seem content with it.
And for the record, as I stated before, I'm not saying exclusively that August games are must win. I am simply saying against an absolutely awful Sunderland side at home its a must win no matter when it is.
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Compare how we look going forward today to how we looked last time at home to Sunderland. We have the potential for this to be a more than decent side.
As for Gil, after not playing for a while was probably too much of an ask to start today after Tuesday. I'm interested in seeing the 'dive' again. And quality time wasting from them starting pretty much when they equalised. How it tookcso long to book the keeper is beyond me.
Did not look like a dive to me, he left his foot there.
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Should be winning that being 2-1 up at half time. Sunderland weren't that awful but I'd be surprised if there's three poorer teams in the league than them.
For me the key was Sherwood simply not reacting to the two Sunderland changes, Defoe suddenly dropping deep and collecting the ball and a sloppy goal where Clark went to ground far too quickly.
That's why we struggle to finish high up the league, we simply don't win enough home games, two gone already we haven't won.
We need better than Gestede upfront aswell, just don't see it with him, he's mediocre controlling and laying off the ball.
Get in a decent striker, Lescott and hope Grealish and Traore can stay fit and play in the same 11 and we can have a decent season.
No new striker and continual injuries and it will be a struggle up to xmas.
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14m on Gestede and Ayew isn't looking like a wise investment right now - although I'm sure both with contribute over the season. We need an experienced goal scorer in before the deadline and as vocal as I have been about him, Adebayor would improve us provided he's fit and committed to the cause.
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It's a shame Clark has had a couple of poor matches. After a torrid time I was beginning to think he could be a really solid defender, but I always have this nagging feeling that he would easily be replaced and improved upon. I don't really know who by, though, although it might turn out to be Lescott.
I know it tends to be looked on as favourable having a left-footer on the left of the defence, but I still feel that Okore is the better player.
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Gestedes movement made Gabby look like Mo Farah.
Bacuna is an appalling footballer and should be nowhere near the first team . Madness to give him a longer contract .
Sherwood is as tactically inept as General Custer at Little Bighorn . Out thought twice in two weeks by managers making subs at half time .
Minimum requirements this week - new goalkeeper - new forward. We will get another defender .
Not happy .
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Gestedes movement made Gabby look like Mo Farah.
Bacuna is an appalling footballer and should be nowhere near the first team . Madness to give him a longer contract .
Sherwood is as tactically inept as General Custer at Little Bighorn . Out thought twice in two weeks by managers making subs at half time .
Minimum requirements this week - new goalkeeper - new forward. We will get another defender .
Not happy .
Massive overreaction. Sherwood wasn't tactically out thought. Their equaliser came from a terrible defensive error. We completely dominated the second half and should have won.
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I'll ignore the hyperbole
With grealish and traore I think we win that. With benteke we definitely do
Guzan 7
Hutton 7
Richards 7
Clark 6 (I couldn't really tell what happened with the goal)
Amavi 7
Westwood 6
Sanchez 7
Gueye 8
Bacuna 5
Gestede 4
Sinclair 8
Gil 7
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No excuses. Not beating Sunderland at home is totally unacceptable. It says a lot that even with the amount of work done in the Summer that we are still well short.
This
this
think that is 4 wins in 19 at home which is appalling. this time next year we will be millionaires.
oh and sunderland are really shit
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Sorry when you said it was a "must win game " I thought you meant it was a must win game
I don't like not taking chances either but going into hyperbolic panic mode with 34 games left to play is just absurd
Sunderland at home is not a game we have to win, either. There aren't any such games until you start running out of matches left to play.
I assume Bournemouth away was not on this have to win list, mind, so imagine you'll be balancing this result out with that one?
What a terrible approach.
But still miles better than the wailing loudly and long that we're all doomed to inevitable relegation just because we're only twelfth in the league.
I said we played well? I think bringing up we're 12th in August is worse than complaining about a result that should've been a victory.
I quite agree - it's ridiculous to even suggest that the league table matters at the moment, just like describing anything as a "must-win game" in August would be absolutely daft.
How do you figure? I thought collecting points was the name of the game, no?
Are February points worth more than August points? Or do points only matter when you really need them?
I'd like to avoid the desperation, you seem content with it.
And for the record, as I stated before, I'm not saying exclusively that August games are must win. I am simply saying against an absolutely awful Sunderland side at home its a must win no matter when it is.
Sunderland were abysmal. I'm stunned that so many seem content with a point. Yes it is work on progress, but we still look vulnerable at the back and have only Sinclair who looks like scoring. That's AFTER spending over 40 million.
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Where have you found anyone content with a point? There are just some of us who haven't jumped off a bridge like you.
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Aston Villa manager Tim Sherwood: "Anyone who watched that game knows that we should have won. We had 22 shots, the keeper has pulled off a 'worldy' save and we should have had a penalty. We have been robbed.
"It definitely should have been a penalty. Younes Kaboul pulls out but there's contact - it is a penalty. My team couldn't have done any more today."
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Gestedes movement made Gabby look like Mo Farah.
Bacuna is an appalling footballer and should be nowhere near the first team . Madness to give him a longer contract .
Sherwood is as tactically inept as General Custer at Little Bighorn . Out thought twice in two weeks by managers making subs at half time .
Minimum requirements this week - new goalkeeper - new forward. We will get another defender .
Not happy .
He wasn't tactically out thought at all. Sorry to criticise but that's just a classic knee jerk response
Sunderland had two genuine chances. We had about 8, including many in the second half.
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On any other day with 22 shots were scoring a few of them. Creating chances is critical and we are doing that. That will lead to goals and wins this season.
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It'd be great if we could field a stable side, but we can't. Thought there were some very good signs: Sanchez, Gana, Amavi, Sinclair, Richards, Westwood.
A better cutting edge? Yes, definitely, and we have a couple to come back in.
Fewer gaffs at the back? Oh yes. Lescott should improve that.
Could have been a much better start to the season, but with all that's happened in the Summer, could be worse. Cautiously optimistic.
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He didn't react to the two half time subs, Sunderland only had a 10 minute spell but it was enough for the equaliser and two points dropped, another home game we don't win and we need to start winning them if we want to start moving up the league.
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Nobody is happy with a point. But I'm reasonably happy with the performance. Albeit with massive concerns on the number 9 role. It's like they're auditioning not to play.
I'd have definitely brought Kozak on.
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As for Gil, after not playing for a while was probably too much of an ask to start today after Tuesday.
True but why the hell was he playing so deep? Gil to Sanchez must have been his most played ball. I'd have loved to have seen him further up the pitch where his skill and vision can hurt teams.
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Where have you found anyone content with a point? There are just some of us who haven't jumped off a bridge like you.
No one is jumping off a bridge. Whether we are two points off Europe or survival every game is important. Should've won the game, could've won the game.. gave them a point.
Worse team in the league by far, at home.
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On any other day with 22 shots were scoring a few of them. Creating chances is critical and we are doing that. That will lead to goals and wins this season.
Yep I do think we need another forward though.
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Not good enough, we won't play a poorer side than that. Gil looked good when he came on, but Clark's error for the second was dreadful. We desperately need another forward, because Gestede looks a bit short of quality.
Kozak should have replaced Gestede at the same time as Gil on for Bacuna
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When I saw the line up I wasn't expecting anywhere near that many chances
But Sunderland were terrible apart from Lens. They're going down I think. We need a striker or we risk following them.
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How did Bacuna start that game? He's had an easy ride recently, going under the radar whilst all the Gabby bashing was happening, but as FFD rightly states, he is an awful player. Slow of thought, poor timing and weight of pass, poor delivery from dead balls. How on earth did he get in ahead of Gil?
The good news is that there is plenty of quality in the squad now, despite the one or two passengers we still carry. We would have won with either Traore or Grealish (or both) in the starting line-up. If we can get those two fit and in the team, and at the same time dropping Bacuna and Gestede, I fancy us to beat Leicester and the Baggies in the next two fixtures, which will set us up for a more comfortable season.
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Where have you found anyone content with a point? There are just some of us who haven't jumped off a bridge like you.
When we can't beat the poorest side in the division at home, don't be surprised if people might be a little annoyed. It's a poor result whatever way you look at it.
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Hopefully we get all of our players fit after this upcoming international break. I would love to see Adama and Jack be in the side to face Leicester.
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Where have you found anyone content with a point? There are just some of us who haven't jumped off a bridge like you.
When we can't beat the poorest side in the division at home, don't be surprised if people might be a little annoyed. It's a poor result whatever way you look at it.
Annoyed yes. Frustrated sure. What you said, no. I'm sorry it just isn't as horrific as you are making it out to be.
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Where have you found anyone content with a point? There are just some of us who haven't jumped off a bridge like you.
No one is jumping off a bridge. Whether we are two points off Europe or survival every game is important. Should've won the game, could've won the game.. gave them a point.
Worse team in the league by far, at home.
I think Chelsea might just have beaten us to that one, this week.
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Where have you found anyone content with a point? There are just some of us who haven't jumped off a bridge like you.
No one is jumping off a bridge. Whether we are two points off Europe or survival every game is important. Should've won the game, could've won the game.. gave them a point.
Worse team in the league by far, at home.
I think Chelsea might just have beaten us to that one, this week.
I think Palace will have a good season though, and finish between 7-10th. Sunderland however, good god they are just flat out terrible.
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Sanchez and Gana very good, again.
All Clark had to do was stay on his feet and the chap would never have got his shot off.
Unsure if it was a free kick for their first, but nothing anyone could do about the strike itself.
Was it a 2nd half penalty on Gil? Couldn't see from my position.
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Sanchez and Gana very good, again.
All Clark had to do was stay on his feet and the chap would never have got his shot off.
Unsure if it was a free kick for their first, but nothing anyone could do about the strike itself.
Was it a 2nd half penalty on Gil? Couldn't see from my position.
I thouht Guzan positioned himself badly for the first.
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The dissapointing thing is the fact that we should have won the game easily.Westwood Gestede Clark Bacuna all poor.
Gil Sinclair Gana Richards Amavi Sanchez all very good.
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I'll ignore the hyperbole
Sinclair 8
He took his penalty superbly and made a great run to get in the right place to tap his goal in but other than his shot/cross to Richards, he was hardly in the game. Not his fault, as I've explained earlier but 8 points I can only assume are for the goals as you give Gestede 4.
Sinclair is far more suited to playing centrally, he's no winger but we need to find ways of getting him more involved in games.
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I couldn't tell re the penalty. But he had plenty of time to shoot before that. When you think we had
- 2 Sinclair goals
- Richards open goal
- Gestede two pulled shots from great positions
- Gil great chance and potential penalty
- Westwood chance
- gana chance first half
I take into account how shit Sunderland are. But that just isn't a bad all round performance.
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Sanchez and Gana very good, again.
All Clark had to do was stay on his feet and the chap would never have got his shot off.
Unsure if it was a free kick for their first, but nothing anyone could do about the strike itself.
Was it a 2nd half penalty on Gil? Couldn't see from my position.
I thouht Guzan positioned himself badly for the first.
agree he was too far over and rooted, also seemed slow to react, it was not exactly in the top corner.
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I'll ignore the hyperbole
Sinclair 8
He took his penalty superbly and made a great run to get in the right place to tp his goal in but other than his shot/cross to Richards, he was hardly in the game. Not his fault, as I've explained earlier but 8 points I can only assume are for the goals as you give Gestede 4.
Sinclair is far more suited to playing centrally, he's no winger but we need to find ways of getting him more involved in games.
Are you for real? He's scored five in two games and you want him more involved?
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Where have you found anyone content with a point? There are just some of us who haven't jumped off a bridge like you.
No one is jumping off a bridge. Whether we are two points off Europe or survival every game is important. Should've won the game, could've won the game.. gave them a point.
Worse team in the league by far, at home.
I think Chelsea might just have beaten us to that one, this week.
I think Palace will have a good season though, and finish between 7-10th. Sunderland however, good god they are just flat out terrible.
There's not a lot to cheer there, that's for sure. They haven't won any of their games yet.
And then, there was Liverpool today :D
Without illness and with some finishing firepower to complement Sinclair, I think we shape up to be a lot better than last season already.
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I felt a bit sorry for our front two today as we were so predictable in throwing crosses into the box and the Sunderland defence won the vast majority. Only on the very odd occasion when we played it on the deck and ran at them did we ever look like scoring. Sinclair's second being the perfect example. Neither Sinclair or Gestede were in the match much but that was more down to tactics than anything else. There was an improvement when Gil came on but over 90 minutes we made it very difficult for both to get involved in the game.
On a positive note, Sanchez and Gueye look to be forming a great partnership though it did look like Gueye was tiring for the last 15 minutes, as did Amavi who had a great first half again but never manages to repeat it 2nd half. As much as I appreciate Westwood, he's no attacking midfielder and today it showed, wasting a couple of the few real opportunities we created. Bacuna should thank his lucky stars he's got a new contract. Not his best today bu a very long way.
Hutton put in a real shift, getting forward plenty of times and still managing to take care of his defensive duties. The two alongside him still worry me though. Clark was at fault for one of their goals and Richards still doesn't fill me with confidence. Both need to learn how to dominate their space.
Overall a draw was a fair result despite us having plenty of the ball we didn't really do much with it. Sunderland always looked more threatening in attack but overall they're a pretty poor side. They got lucky that we played to their strengths with our tactics.
Good summary.
The constant worry is that Sherwood is unable to put a shape on the side, our offside trap is an absolute mess since the start of the season and shows no sign of improvement. Clark made two very poor errors today one which cost us the goal but there is a general unease about us at the back. Midfield while some of our players individually did well today, where was Bacuna supposed to be playing? Westwood as you have said is playing too far forward, we had other options on the bench better suited to those roles so why cant the manager see that? Gil proved that after his introduction but why set up with a daft starting line up and allow Sunderland 15mins to settle in with their subs after half time before making the change?
We were unlucky not to get the win in fairness, Richards miss was hard to fathom. Sinclair when he went up top showed good movement, to be honest he doesnt seem to want the ball with his back to goal so he struggles on the left. Intelligent runs off the ball though from him, in marked contrast to GA. Gestede was decent after the break I thought, a lot didnt come off for him but held the ball up quite well at times. only getting a point at home to that Sunderland side is a disappointing result. Some positives for sure but ongoing worries re the shape of the team for me. Sherwood's struggles re substitutions and timing of them continue.
Guzan 6, Hutton 7, Richards 6, Clark 4, Amavi 8, Bacuna 5, Sanchez 7, Westwood 7, Gueye 7, Sinclair 7, Gestede 6 . Gil 7
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If Defoe's first touch was better we could of easily lost that, on the other hand if our final third ball making decisions were also better, we also could of won it.
Lots of aimless crosses for Gestede were food and drink for their keeper, when an extra touch or a better pass from us would of been better.
Hutton's crosses in the first half were awful.
Bacuna is not a very good player.
Too many players not getting into the box (lazy strolling) apart from the last 14 mins.
Gil should of started (ironic crowd cheers when he came on)
Gestede looks very slow, with a poor first touch.
Guzan looks really dodgy, his poor distribution and decisions will cost us more points.
4 points from 12, considering the teams we've played is a poor return.
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I would love to see this side given a chance when they are all fit and up to speed.
Guzan
Hutton Richards Clark/Lescott Amavi
Sanchez Ghana
Adama Gil Grealish
Ayew
This is a great shout if you ignore the fact that you have left out our biggest attacking threat and the man that has scored 5 goals in 5 days. For me, Sinclair would go left and Grealish into the centre
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I wonder if some of the Chelsea fans are on the same bridge as some of ours? Oh and Liverpool for that matter!
I'm still not too concerned, we played well at times and should really have won. It will click, I'm sure. We could have done with a fit Gil, Jack or Traore today to pick them apart.
Clark I still really like but he could have done a tad better with being completely done for for their equalising goal.
Again it's also a shame Kozak is not quite fit enough as Ruddy looks like he needs to settle into this side, a bit like Jordan Ayew.
Once all fit and settled we'll be a good team for sure.
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Encouraged. Bit of confidence and a settled side and we'll do well
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One of our biggest failures is that as a team we can't concentrate for 90 mins. Too many times players switch off and it always seems to cost us.
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I'll ignore the hyperbole
Sinclair 8
He took his penalty superbly and made a great run to get in the right place to tp his goal in but other than his shot/cross to Richards, he was hardly in the game. Not his fault, as I've explained earlier but 8 points I can only assume are for the goals as you give Gestede 4.
Sinclair is far more suited to playing centrally, he's no winger but we need to find ways of getting him more involved in games.
Are you for real? He's scored five in two games and you want him more involved?
Erm.. yes. Don't you or do you think he's playing to his limit and getting great service?
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Sanchez and Gana very good, again.
All Clark had to do was stay on his feet and the chap would never have got his shot off.
Unsure if it was a free kick for their first, but nothing anyone could do about the strike itself.
Was it a 2nd half penalty on Gil? Couldn't see from my position.
Looked like it. I thought there should've been one for Gestede a few minutes later as well when O'shea clearly pushed him whilst he was in mid-air, the ball went over his head anyway but there's nothing in the rules to say you can't be fouled 'off the ball', was just a poor second half from the ref.
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I'll ignore the hyperbole
Sinclair 8
He took his penalty superbly and made a great run to get in the right place to tp his goal in but other than his shot/cross to Richards, he was hardly in the game. Not his fault, as I've explained earlier but 8 points I can only assume are for the goals as you give Gestede 4.
Sinclair is far more suited to playing centrally, he's no winger but we need to find ways of getting him more involved in games.
Are you for real? He's scored five in two games and you want him more involved?
Erm.. yes. Don't you or do you think he's playing to his limit and getting great service?
I think he's playing well, and his goalscoring record bears this out.
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I agree my 8 for Sinclair was generous. Probably too much. He did score two and set up an absolute sitter though
My wife gave me a lovely surprise and brought me up to the game. Purnells later
She thought Gestede was awful too. His hold up play did improve a bit but his touch and shooting. Oh dear. Oh dear oh dear
Hopefully it's partly confidence and will improve
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Where have you found anyone content with a point? There are just some of us who haven't jumped off a bridge like you.
When we can't beat the poorest side in the division at home, don't be surprised if people might be a little annoyed. It's a poor result whatever way you look at it.
Annoyed yes. Frustrated sure. What you said, no. I'm sorry it just isn't as horrific as you are making it out to be.
I said not winning at home to them is unacceptable and that we still have to improve the squad. Dont see what's wrong that that view.
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I agree my 8 for Sinclair was generous. Probably too much. He did score two and set up an absolute sitter though
My wife gave me a lovely surprise and brought me up to the game. Purnells later
She thought Gestede was awful too. His hold up play did improve a bit but his touch and shooting. Oh dear. Oh dear oh dear
Hopefully it's partly confidence and will improve
I agree. I like Rudy but it seems he is struggling to cope with the technical requirements of the Prem. I hope he can find his feet. That said, Kozak certainly should have gotten a couple minutes today. I fail to understand his lack of appearances.
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I'll ignore the hyperbole
Sinclair 8
He took his penalty superbly and made a great run to get in the right place to tp his goal in but other than his shot/cross to Richards, he was hardly in the game. Not his fault, as I've explained earlier but 8 points I can only assume are for the goals as you give Gestede 4.
Sinclair is far more suited to playing centrally, he's no winger but we need to find ways of getting him more involved in games.
Are you for real? He's scored five in two games and you want him more involved?
Erm.. yes. Don't you or do you think he's playing to his limit and getting great service?
I think he's playing well, and his goalscoring record bears this out.
All the more resaon to get him more involved and give him better service, I'd have thought.
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some positive signs of a team growing, we need to be patient for 10/12 games while the team is forming, we looked more of a bunch of guys thrown together than a team. We must be patient........
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LTA, Villadelph, if we play this game in a month or 2 we win easily, today we did easily enough to win but there were still a few things where we haven't quite settled. For that reason not getting the 3 points we deserved was frustrating but you've both overreacted to a ridiculous extent which is why so many people are calling you out on it.
Rudy, I think Sinclair is fine, right now our best 11 would be him up front on his own with adama, gil and grealish behind him, pick that front 4 and I think you'll see him a lot more invovled and he'd score plenty.
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Where have you found anyone content with a point? There are just some of us who haven't jumped off a bridge like you.
When we can't beat the poorest side in the division at home, don't be surprised if people might be a little annoyed. It's a poor result whatever way you look at it.
Annoyed yes. Frustrated sure. What you said, no. I'm sorry it just isn't as horrific as you are making it out to be.
I said not winning at home to them is unacceptable and that we still have to improve the squad. Dont see what's wrong that that view.
LTA on Today at 11:41:43 AM
We are in deep trouble this season. This is a game you have to win if you want to be clear of trouble.
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I would love to see this side given a chance when they are all fit and up to speed.
Guzan
Hutton Richards Clark/Lescott Amavi
Sanchez Ghana
Adama Gil Grealish
Ayew
This is a great shout if you ignore the fact that you have left out our biggest attacking threat and the man that has scored 5 goals in 5 days. For me, Sinclair would go left and Grealish into the centre
Yeah...you are right. Sinclair in goal scoring form and all that.
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I agree my 8 for Sinclair was generous. Probably too much. He did score two and set up an absolute sitter though
My wife gave me a lovely surprise and brought me up to the game. Purnells later
She thought Gestede was awful too. His hold up play did improve a bit but his touch and shooting. Oh dear. Oh dear oh dear
Hopefully it's partly confidence and will improve
I agree. I like Rudy but it seems he is struggling to cope with the technical requirements of the Prem. I hope he can find his feet. That said, Kozak certainly should have gotten a couple minutes today. I fail to understand his lack of appearances.
Sherwood doesnt rate Kozak, would have brought him on for Gestede for last 10 mins too.
Worrying for Ayew that he didnt see game time on a day when Gabby, Traore and Grealish werent fit
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Sanchez and Gana very good, again.
All Clark had to do was stay on his feet and the chap would never have got his shot off.
Unsure if it was a free kick for their first, but nothing anyone could do about the strike itself.
Was it a 2nd half penalty on Gil? Couldn't see from my position.
I thouht Guzan positioned himself badly for the first.
How?
The wall covered the left side 1/3 Guzan the other 2/3, which I reckon is about right.
The shot went around the wall not up and over, have to say it was an excellent free kick, Dave.
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I'm confused now, is Sinclair not enough fart now he's providing the err, shit?
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LTA, Villadelph, if we play this game in a month or 2 we win easily, today we did easily enough to win but there were still a few things where we haven't quite settled. For that reason not getting the 3 points we deserved was frustrating but you've both overreacted to a ridiculous extent which is why so many people are calling you out on it.
Rudy, I think Sinclair is fine, right now our best 11 would be him up front on his own with adama, gil and grealish behind him, pick that front 4 and I think you'll see him a lot more invovled and he'd score plenty.
Nah. Just nah.
I'm not overreacting at all. I said we played well, I said we deserved to win.. but we didn't get the result we deserved. This is a fixture that was a must win for us, really don't care what anyone else thinks.
We looked gelled aside from Rudy. Midfield played with great continuity and cohesion. Defense, barring Clark's lapse, was above average. We don't get many easy home matches, this was one of them and a fixture we have to win.
Maybe I'm just competitive? I'm not content with underperforming or dropped points. When the season kicks off every game is a must win. I'm not happy to be in the league, I want to strive for success.
You seem set that we'll be better in two months. I thought the same thing last year. You need to collect points when you can.
Again, I thought we played well but results are what matter. I want to win every single game, but more than anything win the games we are supposed to win.
Start hunting before you go hungry.
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Rudy, I think Sinclair is fine, right now our best 11 would be him up front on his own with adama, gil and grealish behind him, pick that front 4 and I think you'll see him a lot more invovled and he'd score plenty.
Very true. I think when we have Grealish and Adama back with Gil in the hole we'll have so many options teams won't know where to hide. Add to that a solid defensive midfield of Sanchez and Gueye and we start to look a completely different team.
Today was frustrating as we kept going with the same tactic of throwing in balls from wide positions in the hope Gestede would get his head on one of them. Despite missing Grealish and Adama, it was still a case of us being our own worst enemy as there were players on the pitch that could have mixed it up.
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We should be honest with ourselves ....we will not play many teams worse than Sunderland.
I think its fair to say tonite we will be at best in the bottom six which is very disappointing
Didn't understand the manager today ....one change ....what does Kozak need to do to get time on the pitch
While we have a central midfield of the three we did today we are never going to create enough clear chances or score from those players
The balance of the team is not right and the players missing Jack and Adama are both wide men not central players who create - remember Jack has yet to score
Next couple of days are massive in the transfer window with at least 3 first team players needed
So disappointed to write the above as I do not generally moan but today was poor and I don't recall 22 shots !
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I'm confused now, is Sinclair not enough fart now he's providing the err, shit?
He's plopping like a trooper now he's not isolated out on the wing, Chris.
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I'm confused now, is Sinclair not enough fart now he's providing the err, shit?
He he!! The poor fella just can not win!
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I hope Timmy has got a goal scorer lined up by close of business on Monday.
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We obviously aren't where we want to be yet, but we are only 4 games in with this side. Reason i'm satisfied with the performance is based on where we've come from, not where we want to be. Go back 8 months to Sunderland at home end of 2014, we were truly dire, the nil we got flattered us. We are a significant step on from that imo, and that's the main thing. I think we are heading in the right, long term, direction.
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i kept seeing Sinclair making runs off the ball offensively and getting across to cover defensively.
With his 2 goals I am not sure what more we can expect. I like what Ihave seen of him and we do not have a better finisher in the squad.
I think he could play through the middle with Grealish, Gil and Adama supporting.
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If this Saturday's now devoid of fun,
feeling miffed cos we shoulda won.
Before you make suicidal plans,
spare a thought for those poor Chelsea fans.
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My opinion - TS got it wrong today.
Why didn't Kozak replace Gestede for the last 30 minuets?
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Without sounding harsh, we need better than Clark & westwood to kick on.
Simply not PL level.
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If this Saturday's now devoid of fun,
feeling miffed cos we shoulda won.
Before you make suicidal plans,
spare a thought for those poor Chelsea fans.
Nice rhyme but fuck 'em
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LTA, Villadelph, if we play this game in a month or 2 we win easily, today we did easily enough to win but there were still a few things where we haven't quite settled. For that reason not getting the 3 points we deserved was frustrating but you've both overreacted to a ridiculous extent which is why so many people are calling you out on it.
Rudy, I think Sinclair is fine, right now our best 11 would be him up front on his own with adama, gil and grealish behind him, pick that front 4 and I think you'll see him a lot more invovled and he'd score plenty.
Nah. Just nah.
I'm not overreacting at all. I said we played well, I said we deserved to win.. but we didn't get the result we deserved. This is a fixture that was a must win for us, really don't care what anyone else thinks.
We looked gelled aside from Rudy. Midfield played with great continuity and cohesion. Defense, barring Clark's lapse, was above average. We don't get many easy home matches, this was one of them and a fixture we have to win.
Maybe I'm just competitive? I'm not content with underperforming or dropped points. When the season kicks off every game is a must win. I'm not happy to be in the league, I want to strive for success.
You seem set that we'll be better in two months. I thought the same thing last year. You need to collect points when you can.
Again, I thought we played well but results are what matter. I want to win every single game, but more than anything win the games we are supposed to win.
Start hunting before you go hungry.
Every team, ever, has games where things don't go their way, today was one of those. Sherwood was absolutely spot on with the comment that was posted, we did more than enough to win the game but it just didn't happen. at this point of the season I'm more bothered about how we look as a team than I am about points. Last August we had 10 points by this point but I didn't think we could keep up the performances and didn't think we were creating enough chances. 2 months later that was proven to be correct and we all know how that ended up. This August I've seen a lot more for us to be positive about so I'm convinced that when we start seeing the 'groups' form in the table we'll be in the midtable one rather than in the relegation one.
It's frustrating to watch a game like today and not have 3 points but the longer view looks much better than the last few years, that's why focusing on the result and calling it a must win game is over-reacting.
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Without sounding harsh, we need better than Clark & westwood to kick on.
Simply not PL level.
Hate to agree SV but you are right. Both are OK when we don't have anyone better but Westwood was like a square peg in a round hole in that position today and Clark was awful for their equaliser.
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LTA, Villadelph, if we play this game in a month or 2 we win easily, today we did easily enough to win but there were still a few things where we haven't quite settled. For that reason not getting the 3 points we deserved was frustrating but you've both overreacted to a ridiculous extent which is why so many people are calling you out on it.
Rudy, I think Sinclair is fine, right now our best 11 would be him up front on his own with adama, gil and grealish behind him, pick that front 4 and I think you'll see him a lot more invovled and he'd score plenty.
Nah. Just nah.
I'm not overreacting at all. I said we played well, I said we deserved to win.. but we didn't get the result we deserved. This is a fixture that was a must win for us, really don't care what anyone else thinks.
We looked gelled aside from Rudy. Midfield played with great continuity and cohesion. Defense, barring Clark's lapse, was above average. We don't get many easy home matches, this was one of them and a fixture we have to win.
Maybe I'm just competitive? I'm not content with underperforming or dropped points. When the season kicks off every game is a must win. I'm not happy to be in the league, I want to strive for success.
You seem set that we'll be better in two months. I thought the same thing last year. You need to collect points when you can.
Again, I thought we played well but results are what matter. I want to win every single game, but more than anything win the games we are supposed to win.
Start hunting before you go hungry.
Every team, ever, has games where things don't go their way, today was one of those. Sherwood was absolutely spot on with the comment that was posted, we did more than enough to win the game but it just didn't happen. at this point of the season I'm more bothered about how we look as a team than I am about points. Last August we had 10 points by this point but I didn't think we could keep up the performances and didn't think we were creating enough chances. 2 months later that was proven to be correct and we all know how that ended up. This August I've seen a lot more for us to be positive about so I'm convinced that when we start seeing the 'groups' form in the table we'll be in the midtable one rather than in the relegation one.
It's frustrating to watch a game like today and not have 3 points but the longer view looks much better than the last few years, that's why focusing on the result and calling it a must win game is over-reacting.
I agree, the future is brighter than ever but you don't think playing the worst team in the league at home is must win? Any more so than playing a Top 4 side in the last few games to assure survival? It's all the same point tally. FFS, be a competitor.
In the grand scheme of things the "longer view" is get the results, get the points. Who cares when or how, get the result. The season has started.
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When was the last time a manager said this about us?
Sunderland manager Dick Advocaat: "We had to work very hard to get one point - and I'm pleased with the point. We had no real problem in the beginning when we led 1-0 but then we gave an easy penalty away and that allowed Villa to control the first half. We had some problems with the movement of the Villa front players - they did very well."
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For the second game on the trot Tim didn't react to substitutions made by the opposition manager and again that cost us. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt this week because clearly the bug going round the camp had a big impact. Amavi and Gana were dead on their feet for the last 10 minutes and in any other circumstances Veretout and Bennett should have come on with fresh legs, and Gil should have been on for Bacuna much sooner - by about 70 minutes. A fully fit squad and we'd have walked that - Sunderland were poor for the most part and it was definitely 2 points dropped.
As for the goals - good free kick for their first but I thought Guzan was poorly positioned - too far to the other side so no chance of getting to the free kick; clear penalty for our first, well taken by Sinclair; superb move for our second; we should have gone on to win but missed chances (how Richards fail to score still baffles me, Gestede should have at least hit the target, as should Westwood, and we should have had a second pen instead of a yellow for Gil); and Clark was at fault for their second.
Hope Lescott comes in (apparently he played for them today) to provide more stability at the back, and hopefully we'll get a decent striker in before the window closes - not convinced by Gestede or Ayew tbh. And if Sherwood starts Gabby ahead of Sinclair (5 goals in two games), he needs more than his bumps felt. And sadly I think it's time we found a replacement for Guzan
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We will be a decent team with a fully fit squad to choose from. Need another striking option and Lescott would be a decent addition. It's coming together.
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A very frustrating day. At time we were brilliant but wasteful in the final third. We need more quality in 3/4 positions but overall very good performance. I have just seen the stats and they completely back up the match I saw at VP. We will get better and Tim had managed to gather real quality in Gana and Amavi add that to Grealish, Sinclair and Gil and we could be awesome. Sanchez was my MOTM today. Getting very close to Mr Reliable the sort we have missed since Barry and Petrov.
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Without sounding harsh, we need better than Clark & westwood to kick on.
Simply not PL level.
Clark seems to have regressed from his high standards last season.
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A very frustrating day. At time we were brilliant but wasteful in the final third. We need more quality in 3/4 positions but overall very good performance. I have just seen the stats and they completely back up the match I saw at VP. We will get better and Tim had managed to gather real quality in Gana and Amavi add that to Grealish, Sinclair and Gil and we could be awesome. Sanchez was my MOTM today. Getting very close to Mr Reliable the sort we have missed since Barry and Petrov.
Pretty much as I saw the game mate.
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For the second game on the trot Tim didn't react to substitutions made by the opposition manager and again that cost us.
Yes I was screaming at him in the first 5 mins of the second half. Advacaat did well and the tall blond guy dominated the midfield. He should have switched Westwood back in centre alongside Sanchez to see out their surge but.....
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My opinion - TS got it wrong today.
That may be the case but we have to remember how inexperienced he is and he's still learning his trade. The biggest adavantage he has is that unlike Lambert, he's a very willing student. He's set himself a massive task by bringing in so many new players, something even the most experienced manager would struggle with.
Saying that, I won't judge him by comparing him to Lambert as it's a pointless measurement. We need to judge him purely as what he does with his team. Right now there are some encouraging signs.
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The rotation of the midfield, including wide forwards, was so much better than under lambert. So much better
All in all I feel pretty positive apart from one massive issue - the number 9. We need to give the new guys time but I'm not confident at all. Ayew has lived up to the reports and Gestede may improve but he still doesn't look at all the sort of guy to play as a lone striker and feed on clever balls through that our attacking midfielders want to play.
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We should be honest with ourselves ....we will not play many teams worse than Sunderland.
I think its fair to say tonite we will be at best in the bottom six which is very disappointing
Didn't understand the manager today ....one change ....what does Kozak need to do to get time on the pitch
While we have a central midfield of the three we did today we are never going to create enough clear chances or score from those players
The balance of the team is not right and the players missing Jack and Adama are both wide men not central players who create - remember Jack has yet to score
Next couple of days are massive in the transfer window with at least 3 first team players needed
So disappointed to write the above as I do not generally moan but today was poor and I don't recall 22 shots !
totally agree about changes,sherwood seems unable to react during the game.
sunderland bought that bid number 20 on at half time and he helped tighten up their central midfield.
gil comes on and was playing so deep he was next to sanchez
gestede was getting nowhere but didnt get a lot of support so what not chuck kozak on or ayew just to shake things up? he did exactly the same last week when he took sanchez off and left gabby on
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first half we were superb Gana and Hutton were excellent. Bacuna was the weak link in the team.
I thought it was a soft free kick for the goal my initial thought was to blame Guzan but I'll wait till I see it again.
Shame Gil did'nt start instead of Bacuna.
Gestede is what he is. A back to goal striker who'll flick it on and lay it off. He will never get you 20 goals. He looks like a carthorse if you hit it for him to chase and he has the turning circle of a car ferry.
I keep saying it but we really need to bring in Austin from QPR especially if Gil and Grealish are going to thread precision passes through for a striker to run on to.
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The result was much the same as the past five years, but the performance was the other way round. Usually against poor sides like Sunderland we fall to their level; we become static and create very little, but this was different.
We dominated for 90% of the game, showed good movement, good running and created plenty, yet we badly lack that goal scorer who would have seen us rattle 3 or 4 more in.
Pantiliamon should have been sent off for the most ridiculous of time wasting, I also thought we should have had another penalty and Richards missed the sitter of the season.
Amavi, Gana and Westwood impressive; what a shame that Traore wasn't available. Hutton was able to push right onto their left back, with Defoe not arsed in tracking. Traore overlapping would have created bedlam.
In light of late chuck always last and this season, the fact we got the point isn't all that bad, but still, it feels like a poor result against a side who will almost certainly prop the table up come May.
If we can bring a goal scorer in, then we will have a comfortable season. If not, then too many poor results (if not performances) like that at home may leave us more worried than we would like. But with Sinclair scoring, the window still open, Jack and Traore to come back, I reckon we will be fine.
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Sanchez and Gana very good, again.
All Clark had to do was stay on his feet and the chap would never have got his shot off.
Unsure if it was a free kick for their first, but nothing anyone could do about the strike itself.
Was it a 2nd half penalty on Gil? Couldn't see from my position.
I thouht Guzan positioned himself badly for the first.
Agreed.
Logic would say you cover the nearest post to the free kick taker yourself and tempt him to beat you at the furthest post from him, thus giving you more time to scramble across, as the ball has to travel further to reach the net.
Science lesson over.
That apart, worth a watch again on MOTD tonight, I also suspect someone in the wall wasn't prepared to get hurt there, I'm not sure it was that far from being 'blockable'.
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The result was much the same as the past five years, but the performance was the other way round. Usually against poor sides like Sunderland we fall to their level; we become static and create very little, but this was different.
We dominated for 90% of the game, showed good movement, good running and created plenty, yet we badly lack that goal scorer who would have seen us rattle 3 or 4 more in.
Pantiliamon should have been sent off for the most ridiculous of time wasting, I also thought we should have had another penalty and Richards missed the sitter of the season.
Amavi, Gana and Westwood impressive; what a shame that Traore wasn't available. Hutton was able to push right onto their left back, with Defoe not arsed in tracking. Traore overlapping would have created bedlam.
In light of late chuck always last and this season, the fact we got the point isn't all that bad, but still, it feels like a poor result against a side who will almost certainly prop the table up come May.
If we can bring a goal scorer in, then we will have a comfortable season. If not, then too many poor results (if not performances) like that at home may leave us more worried than we would like. But with Sinclair scoring, the window still open, Jack and Traore to come back, I reckon we will be fine.
What he said. Spot on. Crazy that four games in there have still only been 7 home wins all season (must be about 7 in 36 games now.
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A very frustrating day. At time we were brilliant but wasteful in the final third. We need more quality in 3/4 positions but overall very good performance. I have just seen the stats and they completely back up the match I saw at VP. We will get better and Tim had managed to gather real quality in Gana and Amavi add that to Grealish, Sinclair and Gil and we could be awesome. Sanchez was my MOTM today. Getting very close to Mr Reliable the sort we have missed since Barry and Petrov.
Pretty much as I saw the game mate.
Same for me. Oft criticism of Westwood on my part was undone somewhat today. Sinclair miles n
better than Gabby,
Lied to have see the BigMan getbthe last 10 mins.
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The people saying Gestede is not the answer after two games in which he has started are ridiculous. He held up the ball and distributed it pretty well and got himself in scoring positions. He needed to do better with the end product, but every striker has better and worse shots. People on here need to relax.
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I agree, the future is brighter than ever but you don't think playing the worst team in the league at home is must win?
No. What is the consequence of not winning that game? Are we going to get relegated because we didn't win it?
If it's a "must-win" game, then it's a game-that-you-must-win. As in there are significant implications to not winning it. It's a phrase you hear a lot at the end of the season because there are clear and defined repercussions from not doing so. There aren't any from today.
Unless I'm wrong and you can tell us the direct consequences from not winning today?
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The way I see it you don't win league titles by drawing at home to Sunderland, the last time we won it, Sunderland were routed 4-0 at Villa Park.
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So you think we're not going to win the league?
Bullshit.
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The people saying Gestede is not the answer after two games in which he has started are ridiculous. He held up the ball and distributed it pretty well and got himself in scoring positions. He needed to do better with the end product, but every striker has better and worse shots. People on here need to relax.
I think Gestede should be an option from the bench rather than starting right now but I'm in no way writing him off, I just think he needs to learn how to fit in with the club and I think the confidence bashing he'll take from games like today won't help him do that.
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The way I see it you don't win league titles by drawing at home to Sunderland, the last time we won it, Sunderland were routed 4-0 at Villa Park.
Youre right we may just miss out this year.
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Considering Sunderland at home is a must-win game, I want to know how not beating them affected Everton last season. They couldn't even draw with them. What unavoidable fate befell them as a result of their failure to win this absolutely imperative game?
What's that? Fuck all? It didn't mean a FUCKING THING?
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I agree, the future is brighter than ever but you don't think playing the worst team in the league at home is must win?
No. What is the consequence of not winning that game? Are we going to get relegated because we didn't win it?
If it's a "must-win" game, then it's a game-that-you-must-win. As in there are significant implications to not winning it. It's a phrase you hear a lot at the end of the season because there are clear and defined repercussions from not doing so. There aren't any from today.
Unless I'm wrong and you can tell us the direct consequences from not winning today?
Its a collective process!
For Christ's sake. Can you be that daft to honestly believe that starting strong and finishing strong are what it takes to compete in this league?
With your logic it's okay to make a mistake on the first ten minutes of a game because there is plenty of time to redeem it. Come on man. If we were to go down on the last day it's not because we didn't win the final game. What absolutely absurd logic.
Like I said, go hunting before you are hungry.
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The people saying Gestede is not the answer after two games in which he has started are ridiculous. He held up the ball and distributed it pretty well and got himself in scoring positions. He needed to do better with the end product, but every striker has better and worse shots. People on here need to relax.
I think Gestede should be an option from the bench rather than starting right now but I'm in no way writing him off, I just think he needs to learn how to fit in with the club and I think the confidence bashing he'll take from games like today won't help him do that.
For what it's worth, it took Traore 5 minutes to prove his worth and show his class. He's a kid and Rudy is certainly not.
Edit: I guess Rudy did win us Bournemouth.
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The people saying Gestede is not the answer after two games in which he has started are ridiculous. He held up the ball and distributed it pretty well and got himself in scoring positions. He needed to do better with the end product, but every striker has better and worse shots. People on here need to relax.
I'd never taken notice of or even seen Gestede play, until Blackburn played the Bindippers in the FA cup last year. He was absolutely fantastic. Probably the best player on the pitch, he won everything in the air, bullied their defence and frightened them to death.
When the rumour went round that we were buying him I did a bit more research. As you do.
7 goals in 50 games in France, 7 goals in 50 odd games for Cardiff? Cardiff sold him to Blackburn for 200K a year ago? Now 26 years old? All facts that dont quite add up with the apparent world beater I'd seen.
And now it all makes sense.
Footballs all about opinions mate, but if you think he held up the ball and distributed it pretty well and got himself in scoring positions, you were watching from a different view point from me. If anything I reckon Blackburn are sniggering into their bank books right now.
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absolutely absurd logic.
A handy and accurate summary of all your posts on this thread. Thanks.
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Oh, and a couple of asides - apart from giving Gil a yellow instead of a penalty, and leaving it so late to show Pantilimon a yellow for time wasting, is there any other referee that would allow a team to persistently foul so much without showing more cards? And great to see Sir Brian there today
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absolutely absurd logic.
A handy and accurate summary of all your posts on this thread. Thanks.
;D
I thought Tim was doing a good job of ridding our losing mentality.
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With your logic it's okay to make a mistake on the first ten minutes of a game because there is plenty of time to redeem it. Come on man. If we were to go down on the last day it's not because we didn't win the final game. What absolutely absurd logic.
Well yes, if you can't understand things like "words" or "common sense" then it would be seen as absurd. Nobody has said that drawing at home to Sunderland is a good thing, or something to aspire to, it's just not the hellish catastrophe that you're painting it as.
Would you prefer to go one goal down after ten minutes (to pick up your example above) or after 92 minutes?
Surely you can see that the first, while annoying (like today) is better than the latter? And that they're not exactly the same as each other.
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My real take on it is that it's a disappointing result but compared to the utter dirge under lambet this is great football and you can see signs of something developing. Plus I have just looked at the table and it doesn't look bad especially as spuds southampton and a few others have yet to win a game.
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With your logic it's okay to make a mistake on the first ten minutes of a game because there is plenty of time to redeem it. Come on man. If we were to go down on the last day it's not because we didn't win the final game. What absolutely absurd logic.
Well yes, if you can't understand things like words then it would be seen as absurd. Nobody has said that drawing at home to Sunderland is something to aspire to, it's just not the hellish catastrophe that you're painting it as.
Would you prefer to go one goal down after ten minutes (to pick up your example above) or after 92 minutes?
Surely you can see that the first, while annoying (like today) is better than the latter? And that they're not exactly the same as each other.
For the fifth time man, I'm not painting this as a catastrophe. I said we played well, I said we have a bright future, I said our midfield was great.
To go back to your analogy, would I rather give up a 10th or 92nd minute goal.. it doesn't matter, it's the same result. That is what I am concerned with. Get the result.
I believe we should be thumping the worst team in the league in Sunderland at home no matter what month it is. A team that couldn't put up a fight against Leicester and Norwich.
What do you not get?
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I agree, the future is brighter than ever but you don't think playing the worst team in the league at home is must win?
No. What is the consequence of not winning that game? Are we going to get relegated because we didn't win it?
If it's a "must-win" game, then it's a game-that-you-must-win. As in there are significant implications to not winning it. It's a phrase you hear a lot at the end of the season because there are clear and defined repercussions from not doing so. There aren't any from today.
Unless I'm wrong and you can tell us the direct consequences from not winning today?
Its a collective process!
For Christ's sake. Can you be that daft to honestly believe that starting strong and finishing strong are what it takes to compete in this league?
With your logic it's okay to make a mistake on the first ten minutes of a game because there is plenty of time to redeem it. Come on man. If we were to go down on the last day it's not because we didn't win the final game. What absolutely absurd logic.
Like I said, go hunting before you are hungry.
Yes, it's a collective process, not getting 3 points at home to Sunderland therefore isn't as important as you're making it out to be. if we get 50 points across the entire season then I'm happy, you sound like you're going to be disappointed if we don't win the league.
As for the mistake thing lets turn it about, would you rather go 1-0 down in the first minute or the last?
The problem is that you used the term must-win, if we win 10 in a row from now will anyone care that we dropped 2 points here? Where as if it's the last game of the season and a win means we get 4th/get europe/stay up it matters. Yes the points are worth but 1 is must win the other is want to win, that's the difference that you're refusing to see.
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With your logic it's okay to make a mistake on the first ten minutes of a game because there is plenty of time to redeem it. Come on man. If we were to go down on the last day it's not because we didn't win the final game. What absolutely absurd logic.
Well yes, if you can't understand things like words then it would be seen as absurd. Nobody has said that drawing at home to Sunderland is something to aspire to, it's just not the hellish catastrophe that you're painting it as.
Would you prefer to go one goal down after ten minutes (to pick up your example above) or after 92 minutes?
Surely you can see that the first, while annoying (like today) is better than the latter? And that they're not exactly the same as each other.
For the fifth time man, I'm not painting this as a catastrophe. I said we played well, I said we have a bright future, I said our midfield was great.
So, given the above, today wasn't a "must-win game"? If was a game that we would hope, even expect to win? And that the fact that we didn't is a bit of a pisser, but in the grand scheme of things probably not going to result in our relegation? And that with our great midfield and bright future that you're so happy with we'll pick up points elsewhere?
Any of that you disagree with?
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Early days I know, but the one thing that was really winding me up about Gestede was his lack of movement. So much so that I started to watch him when the full backs and midfielders had the ball. He barely moved once. The amount if times the ball went back when we were desperate for someone to hit the space but he just wouldn't budge.
Hugely disappointing performance from him, made worse by the fact TS left him on for the entire game. He should have been off after 60 mins. I hope Sherwood not utilising his Subs isn't going to become a regular occurrence.
Thought Gueye was excellent and was always looking to drive forward and Carlos Sanchez too, always breaking up play and starting moves up. Shame there was no Grealish or Traore because we would have won that.
Sunderland were awful, as was the ref who somehow couldn't see the keeper already starting to waste time 15 minutes into the second half. By the time he booked him he'd already done in 5 or 6 times.
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I agree, the future is brighter than ever but you don't think playing the worst team in the league at home is must win?
No. What is the consequence of not winning that game? Are we going to get relegated because we didn't win it?
If it's a "must-win" game, then it's a game-that-you-must-win. As in there are significant implications to not winning it. It's a phrase you hear a lot at the end of the season because there are clear and defined repercussions from not doing so. There aren't any from today.
Unless I'm wrong and you can tell us the direct consequences from not winning today?
Its a collective process!
For Christ's sake. Can you be that daft to honestly believe that starting strong and finishing strong are what it takes to compete in this league?
With your logic it's okay to make a mistake on the first ten minutes of a game because there is plenty of time to redeem it. Come on man. If we were to go down on the last day it's not because we didn't win the final game. What absolutely absurd logic.
Like I said, go hunting before you are hungry.
Yes, it's a collective process, not getting 3 points at home to Sunderland therefore isn't as important as you're making it out to be. if we get 50 points across the entire season then I'm happy, you sound like you're going to be disappointed if we don't win the league.
As for the mistake thing lets turn it about, would you rather go 1-0 down in the first minute or the last?
The problem is that you used the term must-win, if we win 10 in a row from now will anyone care that we dropped 2 points here? Where as if it's the last game of the season and a win means we get 4th/get europe/stay up it matters. Yes the points are worth but 1 is must win the other is want to win, that's the difference that you're refusing to see.
That's all subjective. It's the toughest league in the world, every game is must win. Hopefully we do better in the future to drown out this result..? How about we just take the points?
Who are you people? You sound like a bunch of play for fun Sunday leaguers.
Write it off guys, sweep it under the rug. No matter.
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Yeah I agree. I can accept a player taking a while to bed in. But if you play one up he's got to have mobility and get in behind. I just don't think Gestede has the tools for that.
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Was I the only one who thought Pantilimon didn't actually have that many saves to make, aside from Westwood's shot I'm struggling to think of anything else he had to do.
We had lots of pressure as you'd expect in a home game v Sunderland but not sure it was quite a hammering.
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I thought there was some really good signs today of a slow ascent out of the chaos of the last five years.
All the players played really well, with the plaudits particularly for Gana, Sanchez and Westwood. Homourable mentions to Richards and Sinclair.
Bacuna was - sadly - very poor: frustrating because he got himself into good positions. Gestede was also poor; a lad trying to find his feet in an unforgiving environment: he was bullied by Kaboul.
Clark unfortunately dropped another clanger: after being beasted by Dann last week, he allowed himself to get mugged by Lens. I'm beginning to lose my faith in his apparent improvement.
Cautiously, I think we are going to be okay this season.
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With your logic it's okay to make a mistake on the first ten minutes of a game because there is plenty of time to redeem it. Come on man. If we were to go down on the last day it's not because we didn't win the final game. What absolutely absurd logic.
Well yes, if you can't understand things like words then it would be seen as absurd. Nobody has said that drawing at home to Sunderland is something to aspire to, it's just not the hellish catastrophe that you're painting it as.
Would you prefer to go one goal down after ten minutes (to pick up your example above) or after 92 minutes?
Surely you can see that the first, while annoying (like today) is better than the latter? And that they're not exactly the same as each other.
For the fifth time man, I'm not painting this as a catastrophe. I said we played well, I said we have a bright future, I said our midfield was great.
So, given the above, today wasn't a "must-win game"? If was a game that we would hope, even expect to win? And that the fact that we didn't is a bit of a pisser, but in the grand scheme of things probably not going to result in our relegation? And that with our great midfield and bright future that you're so happy with we'll pick up points elsewhere?
Any of that you disagree with?
There are no guarantees with the club. Get points, stay out of the shit.
I don't think we'll be in a relegation battle, fingers crossed, but a lot of others do. Was today a six pointer? Doesn't matter I guess, it's August.
When does the league actually start then? When we start depending on wins for survival? If it comes to that.
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The thing is, almost all teams have brought in some very good players. Teams won't be able to be as bad as villa, Sunderland and Leicester were for most of last season and stay up (in my view)
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It's the toughest league in the world, every game is must win.
Fine, you could have just made this whole post-match thread much easier if you'd just said that you were talking in meaningless clichés the whole time.
Unless you actually believe that if you don't win every game in the league then you've got a problem? If you don't think that, stop calling things "must-win" when they're patently not.
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Gestede + Ayew = Charlie Austin
Just saying like
But I think with Austin we would have had 4 more points
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Oh, and a couple of asides - apart from giving Gil a yellow instead of a penalty, and leaving it so late to show Pantilimon a yellow for time wasting, is there any other referee that would allow a team to persistently foul so much without showing more cards? And great to see Sir Brian there today
I've said it somewhere, the ref had a terrible 2nd half, they were time wasting for 40minutes and were largely allowed to get away with it, they got all the 50/50s. The one that frustrated me the most was the body check on our left just before m'vila put defoe in (and defoe's touch was shit). I think it was Fletcher who just ran into Amavi with no attempt to win the ball and the ref just let it go.
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It's the toughest league in the world, every game is must win.
Fine, you could have just made this whole post-match thread much easier if you'd just said that you were talking in meaningless clichés the whole time.
Unless you actually believe that if you don't win every game in the league then you've got a problem? If you don't think that, stop calling things "must-win" when they're patently not.
What?!
We play to win the game. FS.
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Without sounding harsh, we need better than Clark & westwood to kick on.
Simply not PL level.
Hate to agree SV but you are right. Both are OK when we don't have anyone better but Westwood was like a square peg in a round hole in that position today and Clark was awful for their equaliser.
Westwood wouldn't normally be expected to be the attacking thrust. Typically we'd have Grealish there. After that I'd expect Gil and Vertout to also get selected ahead of him once they're more settled. I think it's a bit unfair to put blame on Westwood today when he's, as you say, a square peg in a round hole, but ultimately taking one for the team by playing out of position.
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For the second game on the trot Tim didn't react to substitutions made by the opposition manager and again that cost us.
Yes I was screaming at him in the first 5 mins of the second half. Advacaat did well and the tall blond guy dominated the midfield. He should have switched Westwood back in centre alongside Sanchez to see out their surge but.....
For all this talk that Advocaat made some genius changes and Tim couldnt react, i thought most of our problems in that early 2nd half period were of our own making by individual errors on the pitch. Sunderland replaced the completely ineffective Graham for the slightly more effective Fletcher, and the horrendous Cattermole for Toivonen, yet i honestly didnt see any major tactical issues from that. It wasnt like Sunderland were suddenly camped around our box, its just they now actually had the ball in our half for more than 10 seconds.
Fletcher had a header from a deep cross (clark was weak here) and then the goal - we had the ball on the halfway line, comfortable in possession. Westwood pings it into Gestede whos loses his 1 on 1 battle, Sanchez is weak and loses his 1 on 1 battle, and the less said about Clarks defending the better. Entirely preventable if each player does his job. After that i think they had the Defoe chance where Hutton went to sleep, but apart from that we dominated and should have scored again, and more than once really.
When a team has most of the possession, most of the attacking threat and most of the chances over the full 90 mins, i tend to think the manager has got it right in terms of set up and tactics. Where i think Sherwood can be critisised is that we came out for the 2nd half with far too a careless attitude. It happened last week, and you could argue it happened in the first half today and also midweek. We are showing a lack of concentration and good chances or goals against are happening early on because of it, and that means we are constantly having to find our way back into the game.
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Was I the only one who thought Pantilimon didn't actually have that many saves to make, aside from Westwood's shot I'm struggling to think of anything else he had to do.
We had lots of pressure as you'd expect in a home game v Sunderland but not sure it was quite a hammering.
I think poor finishing was a part of that. Bacuna had a couple of good opportunities but fluffed his shots both times. Westwood fired wide in a good position when he should have worked the keeper. Gestede had that turn and shot, the one time I really mugged Kaboul today, but fired disappointingly wide.
I think we had about 20 attempts and only 6 on target.
Richards open goal miss was huge too. How that didn't go in, I have no idea.
We dominated for the most part but whilst we do need to create more clear cut openings, we need to improve our finishing. I still think a new front man is required. However I'm quite happy with the attacking blend we have aside. They will click soon enough and we need Grealish, Gil and Traore fit.
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Without sounding harsh, we need better than Clark & westwood to kick on.
Simply not PL level.
Hate to agree SV but you are right. Both are OK when we don't have anyone better but Westwood was like a square peg in a round hole in that position today and Clark was awful for their equaliser.
Westwood wouldn't normally be expected to be the attacking thrust. Typically we'd have Grealish there. After that I'd expect Gil and Vertout to also get selected ahead of him once they're more settled. I think it's a bit unfair to put blame on Westwood today when he's, as you say, a square peg in a round hole, but ultimately taking one for the team by playing out of position.
Westwood ran his socks off today and I thought he did okay. I don't think he's a world beater but I also don't think he's a weak link.
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Without sounding harsh, we need better than Clark & westwood to kick on.
Simply not PL level.
Hate to agree SV but you are right. Both are OK when we don't have anyone better but Westwood was like a square peg in a round hole in that position today and Clark was awful for their equaliser.
Westwood wouldn't normally be expected to be the attacking thrust. Typically we'd have Grealish there. After that I'd expect Gil and Vertout to also get selected ahead of him once they're more settled. I think it's a bit unfair to put blame on Westwood today when he's, as you say, a square peg in a round hole, but ultimately taking one for the team by playing out of position.
Westwood is a squad option for me. He'll have his uses but he shouldn't play every game. I think the game today showed, at home at least, we can get by with Sanchez and Gana anchoring midfield. Veretout would then be an option in place of either of them, or possibly pushed up to the number 10 role.
Put 3 of Sinclair, Gil, Grealish, or Traore in front of them and a striker up top, and we'll score more.
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My real take on it is that it's a disappointing result but compared to the utter dirge under lambet this is great football and you can see signs of something developing. Plus I have just looked at the table and it doesn't look bad especially as spuds southampton and a few others have yet to win a game.
Yes I was disappointed given who we were playing but it wasn't boring.
Gana looks to have something and Amavi too though he needs to cut out careless mistakes. We should've helped Hutton more down the right where Van Aanholt has struggled.
We don't seem to be able to eradicate costly errors. I said to the bloke next to me that the free kick was heading to Guzan's left, the gap was so big, especially as it looked odds on a right footed kick. Meanwhile Clark got a lot of praise on here last season and when he signed an extension but he can still be rash or go to ground early.
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It's the toughest league in the world, every game is must win.
Fine, you could have just made this whole post-match thread much easier if you'd just said that you were talking in meaningless clichés the whole time.
Unless you actually believe that if you don't win every game in the league then you've got a problem? If you don't think that, stop calling things "must-win" when they're patently not.
What?!
We play to win the game. FS.
Yes and sometimes you don't get the win even though you deserved it, sometimes you win games where you've been shit, this is part of the sport. The way you're acting is as if you've never actually watched football.
Once again, getting early points is good but good performances are far more important at this time of the season. You only have to go back 1 season to see the truth of that.
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It's the toughest league in the world, every game is must win.
Fine, you could have just made this whole post-match thread much easier if you'd just said that you were talking in meaningless clichés the whole time.
Unless you actually believe that if you don't win every game in the league then you've got a problem? If you don't think that, stop calling things "must-win" when they're patently not.
What?!
We play to win the game. FS.
Yes and sometimes you don't get the win even though you deserved it, sometimes you win games where you've been shit, this is part of the sport. The way you're acting is as if you've never actually watched football.
Once again, getting early points is good but good performances are far more important at this time of the season. You only have to go back 1 season to see the truth of that.
Are both not attainable? Is it unrealistic to have an expectation to play well and defeat a club in a state such as Sunderland at home?
I'm acting as if I've never watched football before.. hmm?
Sorry, I guess I'm one of the few left with expectation. You just sound soft. A part of the 'it's just a game' crowd maybe. This whole "football only matters when you're desperate" idea is ludicrous.
The season has started, we played well. Well enough to win.
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If we started with Gil instead of Bacuna, we would've won that game. Gestede had a poor game too. I'm no fan of Kozak, but he had an impact on Tuesday, so why not give him half an hour today?
Overall, I'm pretty disappointed by the result, but the performance was better than it has been so far this season.
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Not sure if it's been mentioned enough but what an absolute beautiful piece of football our second goal was. I think it was Richards that won the ball and gave it to Gueye who played an amazing slide rule pass from the half way line to the advancing Amavi down the left. His perfect cross just needed the simplest of touches from Sinclair who had timed his run to perfection to tap it in. That alone gives me a little more faith in Sherwood and helps relieve the frustration of not picking up the three points today.
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Was hoping for all 3 points and the performance attacking wise at times was just right and merits a victory. I felt there was a lack of width apart from the full backs amavi and Hutton and that Clark was sold to easily for the equaliser. The system relies too much on full backs but looking at positives they got forward all be it against tow of the weakest opposing defenders in league.
I not sure how Richards missed from excellent Sinclair and that a change in las 15 mins was needed apart from Gil who was on the ball and dictating play. I would have liked to see kozak and we really struggled without gabbys pace up top with gestde who was mixed at holding it up but was at times very problematic ijn air. The ref didn't add on the time at the end which was rather scandalously bad as pantimllion was time wasting outrageously. That said the lacking fnishing by Westwood in particular who often seemed to be in good positions to score ment villa didn't get the points.
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The people saying Gestede is not the answer after two games in which he has started are ridiculous. He held up the ball and distributed it pretty well and got himself in scoring positions. He needed to do better with the end product, but every striker has better and worse shots. People on here need to relax.
I think Gestede should be an option from the bench rather than starting right now but I'm in no way writing him off, I just think he needs to learn how to fit in with the club and I think the confidence bashing he'll take from games like today won't help him do that.
To be fair Traore is an exceptional kid, so I don't think he should be used as an example.
For what it's worth, it took Traore 5 minutes to prove his worth and show his class. He's a kid and Rudy is certainly not.
Edit: I guess Rudy did win us Bournemouth.
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Was I the only one who thought Pantilimon didn't actually have that many saves to make, aside from Westwood's shot I'm struggling to think of anything else he had to do.
We had lots of pressure as you'd expect in a home game v Sunderland but not sure it was quite a hammering.
I think poor finishing was a part of that. Bacuna had a couple of good opportunities but fluffed his shots both times. Westwood fired wide in a good position when he should have worked the keeper. Gestede had that turn and shot, the one time I really mugged Kaboul today, but fired disappointingly wide.
I think we had about 20 attempts and only 6 on target.
Richards open goal miss was huge too. How that didn't go in, I have no idea.
We dominated for the most part but whilst we do need to create more clear cut openings, we need to improve our finishing. I still think a new front man is required. However I'm quite happy with the attacking blend we have aside. They will click soon enough and we need Grealish, Gil and Traore fit.
Didn't go today, gave up the ticket to my nephew in advance as I had tickets for the cricket. Gotta say, on top of a bloke netting 5 for us in as many days, having 4 other players mentioned regarding fluffing chances is kinda heartening after some of the turgid bollocks dished up in recent years. Onwards and upwards.
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Just home. Disappointing. I wonder if Libor has upset Sherwood by turning down the loan move to Celtic. Warming Kozak up for ten minutes or more then still not giving Gestede the hook, struck me as very queer. Libor is one of our few players who is savvy and instinctively comfortable in the box. I would have brought him and Carles on at half time.
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The people saying Gestede is not the answer after two games in which he has started are ridiculous. He held up the ball and distributed it pretty well and got himself in scoring positions. He needed to do better with the end product, but every striker has better and worse shots. People on here need to relax.
I think Gestede should be an option from the bench rather than starting right now but I'm in no way writing him off, I just think he needs to learn how to fit in with the club and I think the confidence bashing he'll take from games like today won't help him do that.
To be fair Traore is an exceptional kid, so I don't think he should be used as an example.
For what it's worth, it took Traore 5 minutes to prove his worth and show his class. He's a kid and Rudy is certainly not.
Edit: I guess Rudy did win us Bournemouth.
Yeah, I see what you mean. That's why is tried to throw a fwiw in there. Traore's pedigree is unrivaled.
I just don't want to see us become dependent on striker who we hope comes good. We could do with some assurance up top. I hate to say Rudy is old, but I guess we're just young-ish now.
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The way I see it you don't win league titles by drawing at home to Sunderland, the last time we won it, Sunderland were routed 4-0 at Villa Park.
Youre right we may just miss out this year.
Yes not thrashing Sunderland combined with the fact that we are 8 points behind mancity already makes me think you both could be right however remember we still have to play them home and away and that's 6 points!
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Was I the only one who thought Pantilimon didn't actually have that many saves to make, aside from Westwood's shot I'm struggling to think of anything else he had to do.
We had lots of pressure as you'd expect in a home game v Sunderland but not sure it was quite a hammering.
I think poor finishing was a part of that. Bacuna had a couple of good opportunities but fluffed his shots both times. Westwood fired wide in a good position when he should have worked the keeper. Gestede had that turn and shot, the one time I really mugged Kaboul today, but fired disappointingly wide.
I think we had about 20 attempts and only 6 on target.
Richards open goal miss was huge too. How that didn't go in, I have no idea.
We dominated for the most part but whilst we do need to create more clear cut openings, we need to improve our finishing. I still think a new front man is required. However I'm quite happy with the attacking blend we have aside. They will click soon enough and we need Grealish, Gil and Traore fit.
Maybe add Altidore too to the mix
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I haven't seen any of the game but the 7-5 score over the past two games is what I expected when Sherwood took over, glad Sinclairs banging them in, as previously stated I really like him and think he's vastly under rated by a lot of our fans.
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I haven't seen any of the game but the 7-5 score over the past two games is what I expected when Sherwood took over, glad Sinclairs banging them in, as previously stated I really like him and think he's vastly under rated by a lot of our fans.
He looks 10 times the player Gabby has been recently.
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I haven't seen any of the game but the 7-5 score over the past two games is what I expected when Sherwood took over, glad Sinclairs banging them in, as previously stated I really like him and think he's vastly under rated by a lot of our fans.
He looks 10 times the player Gabby has been recently.
I agree, his movement and ability too be in the right place at the right time is excellent, a snip at £3m or whatever we payed for him.
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Considering Sunderland at home is a must-win game, I want to know how not beating them affected Everton last season. They couldn't even draw with them. What unavoidable fate befell them as a result of their failure to win this absolutely imperative game?
What's that? Fuck all? It didn't mean a FUCKING THING?
I'll tell you what that is. It's a fucking disgrace, that's what it is.
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I was really encouraged today by the way we played the majority of the game. As a couple of others have said, a whole match of Gil instead of Bacuna and we'd have won. They had a bit of pressure when they brought Toivonen on and it took us a while to seize the initiative back. If we gel more and get more clinical in front of goal this could be a good season. I thought Westwood was really good today but agree that when everyone is fit Sanchez, Gana and a more creative player may get the nod. It was a late decision to come today and my kids first visit to Villa Park (two shirts purchased as well as the tickets!) and I left really frustrated but in a completely different way than my last visit, when we were truly awful. We are getting there.
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Disappointed we couldn't beat a poor Sunderland team but it was an entertaining game. Impressed with the midfield, Sanchez in particular. Our second goal was beautifully constructed, like something the BFR team might have scored. Got to agree with negative comments about Gestede. He's not even that special in the air from what I've seen of him. Bacuna also had a poor game.
Did Gil really dive when he was one on one with the keeper? Looking forward to seeing the incident on MOTD.
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Nirog 72 Quote : "We are getting there"
Can I ask where that is?
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For the second game on the trot Tim didn't react to substitutions made by the opposition manager and again that cost us.
Yes I was screaming at him in the first 5 mins of the second half. Advacaat did well and the tall blond guy dominated the midfield. He should have switched Westwood back in centre alongside Sanchez to see out their surge but.....
For all this talk that Advocaat made some genius changes and Tim couldnt react, i thought most of our problems in that early 2nd half period were of our own making by individual errors on the pitch. Sunderland replaced the completely ineffective Graham for the slightly more effective Fletcher, and the horrendous Cattermole for Toivonen, yet i honestly didnt see any major tactical issues from that. It wasnt like Sunderland were suddenly camped around our box, its just they now actually had the ball in our half for more than 10 seconds.
Fletcher had a header from a deep cross (clark was weak here) and then the goal - we had the ball on the halfway line, comfortable in possession. Westwood pings it into Gestede whos loses his 1 on 1 battle, Sanchez is weak and loses his 1 on 1 battle, and the less said about Clarks defending the better. Entirely preventable if each player does his job. After that i think they had the Defoe chance where Hutton went to sleep, but apart from that we dominated and should have scored again, and more than once really.
When a team has most of the possession, most of the attacking threat and most of the chances over the full 90 mins, i tend to think the manager has got it right in terms of set up and tactics. Where i think Sherwood can be critisised is that we came out for the 2nd half with far too a careless attitude. It happened last week, and you could argue it happened in the first half today and also midweek. We are showing a lack of concentration and good chances or goals against are happening early on because of it, and that means we are constantly having to find our way back into the game.
Toivonen pushed up on Sanchez, containing his influence and gave them a link man with Fletcher and Defoe. Sunderland also had joy in the second half attacking the channels on both sides between our full backs and centre backs. We got very lucky with Defoe's chance, didnt see the replay but surely Hutton should have pushed up and played him offside. They certainly changed their approach in the second half and were much better for it. It took us until Gil's introduction to get back into the second half.
Both Graham and Cattermole were lucky to last even until half time, think Cattermole was taken off after 30 mins in one of the earlier games. Sunderland are really poor, both full backs awful, particularly the gutless Van Aanholt. Rodwell, a complete passenger. M'Villa great freekick but did he kick the ball apart from that. O'Shea and Kaboul are still ok in the air but their legs are gone. Will be a fair achievement to keep that side in the league
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I don't get the blaming of Guzan's starting position for their first goal. Surely, if he carries any blame it is because he positioned the wall badly. The wall is supposed to prevent those curlers around the side and protect the near post, while the keeper covers the middle of the goal and the far post.
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Such tactical genius that they spent the remaining 35 minutes of the second half defending and barely crossing their halfway line?
Poor finishing cost us.
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Toivonen pushed up on Sanchez, containing his influence and gave them a link man with Fletcher and Defoe.
Yes that's it and I thought Sherwood was not flexible by making a slight adjustment straightaway to provide more support for Sanchez.
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Such tactical genius that they spent the remaining 35 minutes of the second half defending and barely crossing their halfway line?
I thought that was due to us making a recovery post the first 10 minutes however they did seize up in the last 10.
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I don't get the blaming of Guzan's starting position for their first goal. Surely, if he carries any blame it is because he positioned the wall badly. The wall is supposed to prevent those curlers around the side and protect the near post, while the keeper covers the middle of the goal and the far post.
I am not sure where you were sitting but from my seat middle and middle of North Upper he was at fault. Far too much to his right almost offering the chap to put it in the net to his left. I was screaming at him to move over but I guess he didn't hear me! I thought the ball went up and over and ended up crossing the goal about 4 feet from Guzans LH post?
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I don't get the blaming of Guzan's starting position for their first goal. Surely, if he carries any blame it is because he positioned the wall badly. The wall is supposed to prevent those curlers around the side and protect the near post, while the keeper covers the middle of the goal and the far post.
We are sat directly behind the goal but elevated above it right at the back of the Lower Holte and I said before the kick was taken that Guzan was too far over to the right of his goal, and so it proved. It was a good strike but given you knew he was going to take it right-footed which would naturally curve it around the wall towards the top left corner (if he got it right, which he did) then I thought Guzan should've positioned himself more centrally to cover that more likely possibility. It would've had to have been a Ronaldo-esque strike to have beaten him as far over to the right of the goal as he was standing. The most likely option was the one which played out, so for me, I agree with others who have said that Guzan's positioning was poor for the free kick.
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VCTM - 'there' is (hopefully) playing much better football, creating good chances and winning more games. We should be aiming for beyond 'there' but I'll settle for 'there' at the moment. In my opinion we are now a proper striker away from being top half. It may be that the £16m spent on Ayew and Gestede may have been better spent on one striker (Austin is the only name that pops into my head at the moment) but who knows how good or otherwise they will turn out right now? Importantly also I think we are on our way to becoming more solid and difficult to overrun which we saw quite a lot last season and before.
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I don't get the blaming of Guzan's starting position for their first goal. Surely, if he carries any blame it is because he positioned the wall badly. The wall is supposed to prevent those curlers around the side and protect the near post, while the keeper covers the middle of the goal and the far post.
We are sat directly behind the goal but elevated above it right at the back of the Lower Holte and I said before the kick was taken that Guzan was too far over to the right of his goal, and so it proved. It was a good strike but given you knew he was going to take it right-footed which would naturally curve it around the wall towards the top left corner (if he got it right, which he did) then I thought Guzan should've positioned himself more centrally to cover that more likely possibility. It would've had to have been a Ronaldo-esque strike to have beaten him as far over to the right of the goal as he was standing. The most likely option was the one which played out, so for me, I agree with others who have said that Guzan's positioning was poor for the free kick.
Guzan is a professional GK who took up the position he thought best. He left that space as he thought the wall would cover it. It was a great free-kick. As far as I can see, his only problem as a GK is his kicking.
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Agreed NRog, we played some decent stuff and you could see the midfield moving and finding space as we rarely do at home. Having our two 19 year starlets, who happen to be our most threatening options would help, but with Benteke up top, we'd have scored 7 today.
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It's the toughest league in the world, every game is must win.
Fine, you could have just made this whole post-match thread much easier if you'd just said that you were talking in meaningless clichés the whole time.
I must say I worked that out the first time he said it was a 'must-win' game.
The plum.
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Whilst I hate the term "transition season", I think we are genuinely going to have one. It's fairly clear already it's going to be another long bumpy journey. I'd take 14th .
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It's the toughest league in the world, every game is must win.
Fine, you could have just made this whole post-match thread much easier if you'd just said that you were talking in meaningless clichés the whole time.
I must say I worked that out the first time he said it was a 'must-win' game.
The plum.
The next game is a really must win game otherwise we will either draw or lose it.
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i like plums plums are nice they are my favourite
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We must win our next 34 league games, and if you don't agree then you just don't care enough!
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It's the toughest league in the world, every game is must win.
Fine, you could have just made this whole post-match thread much easier if you'd just said that you were talking in meaningless clichés the whole time.
I must say I worked that out the first time he said it was a 'must-win' game.
The plum.
The next game is a really must win game otherwise we will either draw or lose it.
Seriously though, Leicester next.. I mean we have to win that one right? These are the stats we bitch about come April. How we couldn't beat those around us or losing to XYZ FC.
Baggies after that, must win right?
Doesn't matter guys.. early days. Keeps my blood pressure low, whatever.
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VCTM - 'there' is (hopefully) playing much better football, creating good chances and winning more games. We should be aiming for beyond 'there' but I'll settle for 'there' at the moment. In my opinion we are now a proper striker away from being top half. It may be that the £16m spent on Ayew and Gestede may have been better spent on one striker (Austin is the only name that pops into my head at the moment) but who knows how good or otherwise they will turn out right now? Importantly also I think we are on our way to becoming more solid and difficult to overrun which we saw quite a lot last season and before.
Thanks for responding buddy - I agree about Ayew and Gestede - whether Austin would have been a better option is open to debate.
I am frustrated that once again survival seems to be the goal rather than aiming for top ten. Sherwood is attempting major surgery and his patient will need plenty of time to recover ... yes we need to be patient also but after so many years of abject home performances I am perhaps yet to be convinced that he is the man to take the club forward .... draws at home to a very poor Sunderland side dont inspire me
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do I watch the magnificent aston villa on snf scrape a draw or Liverpool get fucked? decisions decisions
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i like plums plums are nice they are my favourite
Your favourite what?
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I'm pretty disappointed after that. I find myself agreeing with numerous posts above, both negative and positive.
I really think we have shot ourselves in the foot defensively today - for the first goal Amavi gave away a soft free kick and Guzan was too far to the right ( like Aftab, I was urging him to move left a bit). The second seemed like a catalogue of errors from my seat in the Holte but I may be wrong.
Going forward Sinclair showed good movement and our second goal was from a lovely move. I was majorly chuffed that Amavi picked out Sinclair and didn't just pump it in the air for Gestede to attack.
Positive signs elsewhere were Sanchez and Gueye in midfield, plus Hutton defensively ( I may be in a minority here) and I thought Amavi was good for an hour, though his positional play needs work.
On the infuriating side I thought our shooting was shite, as was our crossing, Bacuna had a poor game and Gestede didn't hold the ball up well enough . To his credit, I thought Gestede had a better second half and didnt hide, but I can't see him being a big threat yet. My biggest gripe was that I have seen the stats of 22 shots with 6-8 on target but I can't remember their keeper making proper saves. I certainly don't recall the worldy that Tim referred to. I thought the atmosphere was pretty flat too. And I nearly forgot, but I was frothing at Gil's dive as I thought he should have got a shot away before throwing himself to the ground. A definite yellow in my view.
I completely understand many of the frustrations by previous posters tonight - to improve on the past few seasons we need to be beating Sunderland at home as there will be much harder games to come. We missed a really good chance today to pick up 3 points against one of the poorer teams in the league and improve our abysmal home record.
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I'm going to watch MOTD, I want to see again Guzan for the freekick, plus our cracking second goal, and also the 'dive'. That i'll sea Chelsea and Liverpool dicked at home is an added bonus.
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i like plums plums are nice they are my favourite
Your favourite what?
my favourite.... please?
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(http://sadmoment.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Sad-Deweys-Low-Expectations-Are-Never-Met-On-Malcolm-In-The-Middle-Gif.gif)
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For those knocking Gestede, he has actually started in very similar manner to Benteke. Like Benteke, he scored as a substitute on debut but also like Benteke, he looks a little clumsy at the moment while settling in. That said, I thought he improved as the game went on and his hold up play was pretty good. He was involved in most of out better moves, and he rolled Kaboul for the chance that he snatched at as well. I think he will be fine.
As others have said, Traore, Gil or Grealish for 90 minutes wins us that game. To have all three out at the same time is bloody unlucky.
It's hard to judge the performance really. Some players looked good, but they were up against an awful Sunderland side so I am not sure how much you can read into it. Sanchez was probably the pick of the bunch, Marvin had a storming second half and Gil looked lively when he came on too. Awful dive mind, surprised Sherwood defended it.
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ts is obviously playing rudy so he gets used to the prem.
we will be fine this season with what weve got.
a decent cup run,dont know which.acouple of cracking results,
and a mid table finish
live the dream UTV
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Hull & Kingston Rovers have had rather a bad day.
Rugby scores always sound comical compared to 'association football' results, but even so.
50 - nil. Nowhere to hide, really.
But Leeds are happy, so that's all right then.
Now looking forward to watching Chelsea and Liverpool on MOTD. :)
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i like plums plums are nice they are my favourite
Your favourite what?
my favourite.... please?
That's better. Manners cost nothing.
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I'd even be happy with Adebayor now.
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i like plums plums are nice they are my favourite
Your favourite what?
my favourite.... please?
That's better. Manners cost nothing.
I've enjoyed this bit of banter.
It has caused me a problem however. I chuckled and had to try and explain to my wife why i found it so funny. It's not easy!
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i like plums plums are nice they are my favourite
Your favourite what?
my favourite.... please?
That's better. Manners cost nothing.
I've enjoyed this bit of banter.
It has caused me a problem however. I chuckled and had to try and explain to my wife why i found it so funny. It's not easy!
I often had to explain my H&V chuckles to my ex...possibly why she's now my ex.
The shithouse thread lead to many a bewildered stare from her.
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I don't get the blaming of Guzan's starting position for their first goal. Surely, if he carries any blame it is because he positioned the wall badly. The wall is supposed to prevent those curlers around the side and protect the near post, while the keeper covers the middle of the goal and the far post.
We are sat directly behind the goal but elevated above it right at the back of the Lower Holte and I said before the kick was taken that Guzan was too far over to the right of his goal, and so it proved. It was a good strike but given you knew he was going to take it right-footed which would naturally curve it around the wall towards the top left corner (if he got it right, which he did) then I thought Guzan should've positioned himself more centrally to cover that more likely possibility. It would've had to have been a Ronaldo-esque strike to have beaten him as far over to the right of the goal as he was standing. The most likely option was the one which played out, so for me, I agree with others who have said that Guzan's positioning was poor for the free kick.
Guzan is a professional GK who took up the position he thought best. He left that space as he thought the wall would cover it. It was a great free-kick. As far as I can see, his only problem as a GK is his kicking.
Doesn't mean he can't make a mistake. I'm not questioning his general ability as a goalkeeper (kicking aside as you point out) just that on this occasion I thought he got it wrong. It was a very good strike but I think if he was more central he would have probably saved it.
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My first live look at our new look team. Ahead of the game I thought it would be high scoring due to both sides poor defences.
I have to say however I was reasonably impressed with Villa's first half performance and was not surprised that Sunderland put there no. 20 on Sanchez in the second half to stop him dictating Villas play.
Villa are a work in progress but some progress appears to be taking place.
Probably sensible not to be making snap judgements on the new players yet as we are only four games in and even some of the top sides take 8 to 10 games to get into their stride.
Definitely signs of the makings of a decent team though.
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Only seen it on TV but I thought it was quite low into the goal and catchable if Guzan had positioned himself properly.
Guzan is worrying me.
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Before the season, if we had been asked to predict the amount of points we'd have after these four games, I think most people would have gone with 4-5. We're at that exact spot, despite having all these players to integrate. Yeah, we probably should've been beating Sunderland regardless; but on the same basis, maybe we "shouldn't have" been beating Bournemouth away in their first PL game, yet we did.
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It's the toughest league in the world, every game is must win.
Fine, you could have just made this whole post-match thread much easier if you'd just said that you were talking in meaningless clichés the whole time.
I must say I worked that out the first time he said it was a 'must-win' game.
The plum.
The next game is a really must win game otherwise we will either draw or lose it.
Seriously though, Leicester next.. I mean we have to win that one right? These are the stats we bitch about come April. How we couldn't beat those around us or losing to XYZ FC.
Baggies after that, must win right?
Doesn't matter guys.. early days. Keeps my blood pressure low, whatever.
i wouldn't say Leicester is a 'must win'. I think we'll do well to beat them and I'd be fairly happy with a draw to be honest. If you're talking about must-wins then albion probably classifies as such, as does blues in the cup.
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We've gone from a manager that played dire negative football to one that believes in attacking and scoring goals so thats a plus.
We played well with some of our new players really looking like they have played in the premiership for years, yes there are obvious weaknesses and we need to strengthen in a couple of areas but i see a lot of positives. Gestede still looks a bit lost and we do need a stiker to give him time to settle, Clark makes too many mistakes for my liking and Bacuna should be nowhere near the starting line up. We have good players to come back in and if we get say Adebeyor then we will do well.
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I don't get the blaming of Guzan's starting position for their first goal. Surely, if he carries any blame it is because he positioned the wall badly. The wall is supposed to prevent those curlers around the side and protect the near post, while the keeper covers the middle of the goal and the far post.
We are sat directly behind the goal but elevated above it right at the back of the Lower Holte and I said before the kick was taken that Guzan was too far over to the right of his goal, and so it proved. It was a good strike but given you knew he was going to take it right-footed which would naturally curve it around the wall towards the top left corner (if he got it right, which he did) then I thought Guzan should've positioned himself more centrally to cover that more likely possibility. It would've had to have been a Ronaldo-esque strike to have beaten him as far over to the right of the goal as he was standing. The most likely option was the one which played out, so for me, I agree with others who have said that Guzan's positioning was poor for the free kick.
Guzan is a professional GK who took up the position he thought best. He left that space as he thought the wall would cover it. It was a great free-kick. As far as I can see, his only problem as a GK is his kicking.
Doesn't mean he can't make a mistake. I'm not questioning his general ability as a goalkeeper (kicking aside as you point out) just that on this occasion I thought he got it wrong. It was a very good strike but I think if he was more central he would have probably saved it.
i get that everybody makes mistakes. I was never a goalkeeper, it's a largely thankless task. But with all their training - and guzan's no fresh newcomer, he's been around a bit and is a decent keeper- so you would expect better positioning from a free kick from there. If people in the crowd can predict what's going to happen, how can he get it so wrong from where he's standing? I'm not wanting to kick him, as I think he's more than worth his place in the side for all the times he's pulled us out of the shit in the last few seasons. But it does seem like he needs to focus a bit more and cut out the errors a bit better.
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Re Guzan - i don't get the criticism. That's the side the wall is protecting isn't it?
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Not ready to slit my throat just yet, thought more pluses than minuses. I think with Rudy if he was going to take him off, he needed to do it at half time as I thought he came into the game second half. Gana looks a player and a half, Sanchez growing better each game, Amavi still a little worry there. I thought Hutton had a decent game, Westwood I am not sure about, Sinclair covered a hell of alot of ground tracking back, as well as I have seen a forward at the Villa for years, plus he is a natural goal scorer and probably the only one we have on the books, so that need for a goal scorer still needs addressing.
Down points, Clark all he had to do was push him wide. but the only thing he did was push himself passed the player and made it very easy, but also a deflection took it passed Guzan.
I think the free kick was a mixture of the wall and the goalie, but Guzans responsibility for both, I think he lined the wall up incorrectly and also his positioning where he placed himself then was also poor. The only player I was really disappointed with was Bacunna, just not top league quality.
Second goal from the Villa was a thing of beauty and something we have not seen down at Villa park for a long long time, to bloody long. A work in progress.
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It was a cracking game, I actually went home feeling like I'd been entertained, which to put it mildly hasn't always been the case in recent seasons.
I thought Sanchez was excellent for us, this season we will hopefully see the best of him now he's acclimatised to this League.
We were unlucky not to win. On another day we will play worse than that and take the 3 points.
Sunderland need to be relegated just so there is no danger of having to spend 90 minutes looking at that hideous away kit ever again.
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Re Guzan - i don't get the criticism. That's the side the wall is protecting isn't it?
when i was 13 and played in goal i got told that even though you have a wall its not going to stop the ball coming over it so stand in the middle of the goal. guzans positioning was schoolboy stuff a bit like his distribution
if we as a team are ever going to progress we have to stop accepting mediocraty
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Guzan is a real cause for concern. Occasional fans do not see the deterioration of a player. "Good old Brad. Saved our sorry arses loads of time in the past" is the entirely understandable reaction. However, he like Good Old Gabby, is not addressing the areas of his game that are deteriorating. I like him a lot and he is a good Villa man but he is making too many mistakes for top flight football.
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It was a cracking game, I actually went home feeling like I'd been entertained, which to put it mildly hasn't always been the case in recent seasons.
I thought Sanchez was excellent for us, this season we will hopefully see the best of him now he's acclimatised to this League.
We were unlucky not to win. On another day we will play worse than that and take the 3 points.
Sunderland need to be relegated just so there is no danger of having to spend 90 minutes looking at that hideous away kit ever again.
It really was pretty fun wasn't it?
I am really warming to Richards. His amazing header save was awesome and his miss only happened because he created the entire move from robbing fletcher and charging up field. I like him.
Sunderland away kit? Poor mans Norwich. :)
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Guzan is a real cause for concern. Occasional fans do not see the deterioration of a player. "Good old Brad. Saved our sorry arses loads of time in the past" is the entirely understandable reaction. However, he like Good Old Gabby, is not addressing the areas of his game that are deteriorating. I like him a lot and he is a good Villa man but he is making too many mistakes for top flight football.
I reckon you are right. I thought Sherwood was crazy for dropping him and (allegedly) looking for a replacement this summer but maybe he just had the benefit of an outsiders perspective.
Sad to say but I saw Pantilimon deliver far better distribution under pressure than Brad did when he had all the time in the world.
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No excuses. Not beating Sunderland at home is totally unacceptable. It says a lot that even with the amount of work done in the Summer that we are still well short.
This post brought to you in association with Hyperbole Today.
Sunderland are bloody awful. If we want to be clear of trouble, we have to be taking maximum points from games like this.
Did Chelsea get relegated last season then as they didn't get maximum points against Sunderland?
Nor did Tottenham, Southampton or Man U.
Must've been a brilliant relegation battle last season with all those teams involved.
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Agree cigs but I still don't know he did not score. Looked unmissable from where we sit. Third bench from the left Aston Hall rose garden.
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heh, yeah I have no idea either, I think the pace of the cross (which was excellent) and the power of his header somehow conspired for the ball to bounce the wrong way. Strange miss.
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Guzan is a real cause for concern. Occasional fans do not see the deterioration of a player. "Good old Brad. Saved our sorry arses loads of time in the past" is the entirely understandable reaction. However, he like Good Old Gabby, is not addressing the areas of his game that are deteriorating. I like him a lot and he is a good Villa man but he is making too many mistakes for top flight football.
100% agree
guzan, gabby, bacuna, bunn not good enough
as far as guzan goes his distribution is poor so why doesnt he practice it? it isnt that difficult is it?
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One big plus we have is the muscularity of our new line up. I don't think we will be bullied this season the way we have in the past. Richards is the original brick shithouse and Sanchez is the same.
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Can't shake the feeling of 2 big points dropped. Should have won that game. If Adama and Grealish had been fit then that would have made the difference.
Richards fast becoming my favourite player, absolutely colossus
Sanchez had a cracking game
Gana - was everywhere. If only we have a striker version of him.
On the negative, the side selection. At home against teams like Sunderland I do not see why we have to play a midfield 3 of Westwood, Gana and Sanchez. For me, Veretout in place of Westwood for home matches like this. On play, Sanchez is more valuable than Westwood
Gestede - hope he settles in quickly. Frustrating at best today, showed some nice touches/layoffs but then let himself down with poor control a times and movement.
Imo - we need a striker badly before deadline. Would happily take Ade it possible. Other than him I can't see any other striker links......
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Guzan is a real cause for concern. Occasional fans do not see the deterioration of a player. "Good old Brad. Saved our sorry arses loads of time in the past" is the entirely understandable reaction. However, he like Good Old Gabby, is not addressing the areas of his game that are deteriorating. I like him a lot and he is a good Villa man but he is making too many mistakes for top flight football.
100% agree
guzan, gabby, bacuna, bunn not good enough
as far as guzan goes his distribution is poor so why doesnt he practice it? it isnt that difficult is it?
I'm pretty sure he does practice it.
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I know that not everyone will agree with the post above, but this gives me great heart about this season. Four games in and things look to be coming together. Ok only a point, but better than none and the performance good enough for some people to walk away feeling like they've had their money's worth.
I've got a spurs mate who was giving me heaps at the start of the season- I just texted him earlier: have you won any games yet? We'll be more than fine this season.
Sorry - not the post above. Richard E's post from the last page.
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robbo1874 we have some proper exciting footballers in our team. Players with vision, skill and guile. We are no longer full of barely functional donkeys who were there to run and sweat and little else. Let's see how it all comes together over the next few games.
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Based on the early season games I don't think there are too many teams that id say I think we look much better than - maybe Sunderland, Watford.
But there are plenty that I think we are roughly equal to. I think there's plenty more to come in an attacking sense. Hopefully including new striker signing
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Guzan is a real cause for concern. Occasional fans do not see the deterioration of a player. "Good old Brad. Saved our sorry arses loads of time in the past" is the entirely understandable reaction. However, he like Good Old Gabby, is not addressing the areas of his game that are deteriorating. I like him a lot and he is a good Villa man but he is making too many mistakes for top flight football.
100% agree
guzan, gabby, bacuna, bunn not good enough
as far as guzan goes his distribution is poor so why doesnt he practice it? it isnt that difficult is it?
I'm pretty sure he does practice it.
not enough!
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That is the trouble Oswald, he does practice it endlessly but when the pressure is on he seems to panic. Before the game yesterday with the two coaches he was kicking the moving ball first with his favoured left foot then with is right with precision over the half way line. In the game he will always put the ball on his left foot then because that has taken half a second he rushes the kick and our target man has to run to try to flick on the ball to some effect. Identifying the problem is the easy part. Getting the player to correct the fault in play is the hard part. The list of uncoachable faults is endless. Bannan's Hollywood passes, KEA running behind his opponent, Marc's wild tackles, Charlie not looking where he is running, Brad Guzan's distribution.
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Re-Guzan i thought he had taken a position inviting the taker to go to that side and that as it was being taken he would move one pace across. Cannot believe he left that much space.
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Yesterday reminded me of Palace a bit last week. They came out in the second half, made a couple of changes and it took us a while to cope with it. Overall I think we deserved to win though with the chances we had and if Grealish and Traore had been fit, it might have been different, especially given the amount of space Hutton had on the right hand side in the first half.
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My observations of the day
Sanchez was my MOTM thought he was excellent he does stick out because of his hair so you notice him a bit more for good or for bad
Few mistakes made here and there but the only player to have a poor game for me was Gestede he doesnt look quite there yet
Having been less than lukewarm in the past about Sinclair thought he played really well yesterday,it's my first live match of the season and you notice the amount of work he puts in a bit more, seems to be regaining his quality
We should have won , but that's football, I came away feeling as though we had lost and had to keep reminding myself that we had drawn, although it still felt like 2 points thrown away
Sunderland are poor, I think they will drop, but have great support they deserve better but I'm not that arsed about them really
I'm not keen on Plums
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I also thought we lost the 2 points in the first 10 minutes of the second half,
we didn't react to their subs, we let them get back into the game instead of killing them off, you could see and sense we weren't at it at the start of the 2nd period Until they equalised,
Sherwood needs to be aware of this
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That is the trouble Oswald, he does practice it endlessly but when the pressure is on he seems to panic. Before the game yesterday with the two coaches he was kicking the moving ball first with his favoured left foot then with is right with precision over the half way line. In the game he will always put the ball on his left foot then because that has taken half a second he rushes the kick and our target man has to run to try to flick on the ball to some effect. Identifying the problem is the easy part. Getting the player to correct the fault in play is the hard part. The list of uncoachable faults is endless. Bannan's Hollywood passes, KEA running behind his opponent, Marc's wild tackles, Charlie not looking where he is running, Brad Guzan's distribution.
good point brian, i am going to get there early for the bitters game and what the warm up
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Sanchez and Gana very good, again.
All Clark had to do was stay on his feet and the chap would never have got his shot off.
Unsure if it was a free kick for their first, but nothing anyone could do about the strike itself.
Was it a 2nd half penalty on Gil? Couldn't see from my position.
I thouht Guzan positioned himself badly for the first.
Agreed.
Logic would say you cover the nearest post to the free kick taker yourself and tempt him to beat you at the furthest post from him, thus giving you more time to scramble across, as the ball has to travel further to reach the net.
Science lesson over.
That apart, worth a watch again on MOTD tonight, I also suspect someone in the wall wasn't prepared to get hurt there, I'm not sure it was that far from being 'blockable'.
It's an easier free kick that way, as the ball has more distance to get up, down, bend, whatever.
If you watched MotD you will see there was nothing wrong with Guzans position, as I mentioned before, the ball went around the wall, not up and over. Hutton actually stuck his head sideways a good foot to try and deflect it.
It was an excellent free kick.
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It's an easier free kick that way, as the ball has more distance to get up, down, bend, whatever.
If you watched MotD you will see there was nothing wrong with Guzans position, as I mentioned before, the ball went around the wall, not up and over. Hutton actually stuck his head sideways a good foot to try and deflect it.
It was an excellent free kick.
I don't agree Nigel, by standing where he did, Guzan gave the taker all sorts of opportunities. It was a good free kick of course, but then when you give the opponent a huge amount of space to aim at, they've always got a chance of rifling one in.
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It's an easier free kick that way, as the ball has more distance to get up, down, bend, whatever.
If you watched MotD you will see there was nothing wrong with Guzans position, as I mentioned before, the ball went around the wall, not up and over. Hutton actually stuck his head sideways a good foot to try and deflect it.
It was an excellent free kick.
I don't agree Nigel, by standing where he did, Guzan gave the taker all sorts of opportunities. It was a good free kick of course, but then when you give the opponent a huge amount of space to aim at, they've always got a chance of rifling one in.
But let's face it Risso, you got a bee in your bonnet about Guzan,
he's not ever going to do anything you like and the only thing your going to do for the rest of his time here is pick at the negative bits of his game all the time
The lad could save 3 penalties in a game and you would pick fault somehow,
I know how it goes, I was the same with NRC, Downing and N'zog, they never did anything of worth in my view
You just have to admit it
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I also thought that there were distinct similarities with the Palace game. We played well and dominated the first half. Pardew shuffled the deck at half time and took the momentum out of us and Advocaat did the same yesterday. Sunderland took the initiative and until we brought on Carles Gil they forced us into playing less constructively. For a critical twenty minutes Gestede's head became the out ball choice. The half time shake up has become very much part of the game and a very viable alternative to using substitutes only for impact purposes late in a game. For what it is worth I would have brought on Gil for Bacuna and Kozak for Gestede at half time. Apart from anything else the opposition manager makes his half time changes based on the opposition remaining unchanged. Sherwood duly obliged.
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It's an easier free kick that way, as the ball has more distance to get up, down, bend, whatever.
If you watched MotD you will see there was nothing wrong with Guzans position, as I mentioned before, the ball went around the wall, not up and over. Hutton actually stuck his head sideways a good foot to try and deflect it.
It was an excellent free kick.
I don't agree Nigel, by standing where he did, Guzan gave the taker all sorts of opportunities. It was a good free kick of course, but then when you give the opponent a huge amount of space to aim at, they've always got a chance of rifling one in.
There were punters blaming Shay Given for the goal scored by Sanchez in the Cup Final. There appears to be unjust critisism of Guzan at the moment. He and he only is responsible for every goal we concede. Sometimes you have to admit that the dead ball experts on the opposition sides are very very good at their job. We have Ashley Westwood who plainly is not.
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Some good highlights here http://www.safc.com/news/team-news/2015/august/highlights-aston-villa-v-sunderland
Gestede looked a touch better than I thought at the game (ie not quite as shit)
Amavi looks great going forwards.
Don't agree it was bad Guzan positioning.
Noticeable that Bacuna is nowhere to be seen in the highlights
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Bacuna rightly getting stick for a poor performance in midfield, but I think he'd have done a lot more than Hutton if he'd played right back. Maybe they were both a couple of the ones not affected by the flu bug.
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Bacuna rightly getting stick for a poor performance in midfield, but I think he'd have done a lot more than Hutton if he'd played right back.
I was thinking that during the game. There didn't seem to be any need for them both to be on the pitch.
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I don't get the blaming of Guzan's starting position for their first goal. Surely, if he carries any blame it is because he positioned the wall badly. The wall is supposed to prevent those curlers around the side and protect the near post, while the keeper covers the middle of the goal and the far post.
Having watched MOTD, Guzans is positioned to far over. He is just asking to beaten from there. good free kick though.
Sometimes you wonder whether it would be better not have any wall at all so Guzan can see where the ball is going, or at least have a better view
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Re Guzan - i don't get the criticism. That's the side the wall is protecting isn't it?
And the wall didnt jump either which would have helped
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It's an easier free kick that way, as the ball has more distance to get up, down, bend, whatever.
If you watched MotD you will see there was nothing wrong with Guzans position, as I mentioned before, the ball went around the wall, not up and over. Hutton actually stuck his head sideways a good foot to try and deflect it.
It was an excellent free kick.
I don't agree Nigel, by standing where he did, Guzan gave the taker all sorts of opportunities. It was a good free kick of course, but then when you give the opponent a huge amount of space to aim at, they've always got a chance of rifling one in.
But let's face it Risso, you got a bee in your bonnet about Guzan,
he's not ever going to do anything you like and the only thing your going to do for the rest of his time here is pick at the negative bits of his game all the time
The lad could save 3 penalties in a game and you would pick fault somehow,
I know how it goes, I was the same with NRC, Downing and N'zog, they never did anything of worth in my view
You just have to admit it
I like Guzan but I think he was at fault. Once that shot went past the wall it was a goal - there was no way he could have saved it from a starting position so far over.
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Very impressed with Sinclair today, without doubt the best striker on our books, admittedly not saying very much. Gabby would never have scored a goal like his second, as he would never have been in that position in the first place.
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Agree cigs but I still don't know he did not score. Looked unmissable from where we sit. Third bench from the left Aston Hall rose garden.
If he gets come criticism it that he was virtually positioned in the goal when the cross came over he needed to hang back a little for an easy tap in.
Richards played well though and started the move for the miss and our second goal
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Dissapointed with the draw after the way we played for most of the game. I think if Adama and GRealish had been fit we we would of looked a lot more dangerous with the space Sunderland gave us. Desperately need a striker before the deadline.
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A very entertaining game made even better by several beers before and after the game in the Aston Tavern.
Guzan, at fault for their first as discussed already
Hutton, played well but can deliver decent crosses when in good attacking positions
Richards. Impressive. Started move for our first goal. Very athletic and solid. Great signing
Clark. He commits himself to easy for their second and the defence then part like the Red Sea. Still inconsistent.
Amavi. Whats not to like. Could be a really good player. Very tricky and skilful. Slightly frustrated he didnt seem to want to get forward more in the last 10 mins
Westwood. Decent but would like to see his passing range become more attacking and offensive
Sanchez. Played well. He has grown on me. Always gets a foot in and can play with the ball as well
Gana. Very impressive. Athletic and skilful. Fabian who?
Bacuna. I have never been a fan. Inconsistent. Can deliver a decent cross but little else. Bizarre we have given him such a long contract. One to offload if we are too improve
Sinclair. Looks the part when playing more central. Made some great runs yesterday which weren't always picked up. Gabby wouldn't have scored the second because he wouldn't have gambled and made the run like Sinclair did
Gestade. Looks lost but improved in the second half. His strength is in the air but he needs service. Traore may provide this. If he doesn't work out we can move him on and get most of the £6m back. However, he needs time to adapt but I doubt will make double figures this year
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Regarding Gestede, I think he should've done better with some of his chances, but his link up play in the second half was good and he grew into the game as it went on. I'd still be playing Kozak instead but then again I'm a fully paid up member of the Kozak Fan Club.
Glad Sanchez is playing well too, I've been telling everyone who'd listen that he'd have a good season.
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Ok
Thought he played some great football but they are terrible of course but lamberts team would not have produced that.
Very disappointed with bacuna, just isn't good enough. He can sometimes do something really good but not often enough , how Gill doesn't get a start against these .
I don't know why Libor didn't come on for 25 minutes at least for Rudy.
It shows Gabby has to be benched .
I thought Gana , amavi ,Sinclair and Sánchez were really good , just Westwood finishing lets him down.
And if Clark is slow , take your man out at least (unless he had been booked before) but he was so poor then.I think lescott needs to come in .
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Carlos Sanchez started second half very slowly and wasn't initially as impressive as his first half showing. He lost out to the player and ball for the second. In fact I felt villa struggled initially with double dick changes . He had a player on Sanchez stopping him from picking up ball .
Because in the first half the second villa scored was a great team goal and having seen again its guzan who took the chance and passed to Sanchez who moved ball on.
Regards the free kick it been highlighted about wall being positioned incorrectly and guzan being over to far however also its noted that it was an excellent technique free kick.
The end product by villa was missing and for me Gil dived no penalty ! The first was without doubt
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Guzan is a concern ...he has been for 2 seasons now .......... trouble is we don't have a quality back up
I was surprised we didn't go in for Heaton from Burnley who I didn't think would have been that expensive
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Guzan is a concern ...he has been for 2 seasons now .......... trouble is we don't have a quality back up
I was surprised we didn't go in for Heaton from Burnley who I didn't think would have been that expensive
I agree with the second bit!!! Heaton yes.
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On the free kick, I cast my mind back to zidane against England in euro 2004. Very similar position. James does exactly what many of you are saying Guzan should have done and positions himself more centrally so he has a chance if zidane whips it into the near post. Zidane flips it the other way and everyone criticises James on the basis that it was 'his side' and that you just need to let the wall protect the near post.
I don't think I've spotted any criticism of Guzan in the printed press or media?
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Comparing Gestede with Benteke is a tad unfair and there were plenty of games when the latter did not perform. However, what I firmly believe now is that we can adapt the style of play even during a game. We have got to think the future will be to use the full 15 players available to us and that at home, especially, we get players on to win. Bizarrely we may be in a position where we have a surplus of riches. I am struggling to name 'the perfect 11' but here's my stab at it based on what I've seen so far:-
Guzan
Crespo?/Hutton Richards Clark Amavi
Sanchez
Gil Gana Grealish
Traore
Sinclair
Subs:- Veretout, Westwood, Gestede, Ayew, Bacuna , Bunn, Baker
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Very good performance from Ghana yesterday. Impressed! The same applies to Carlos Sanchez! Two automatic starters in the middle now.
It was fantastic to see Charles Gil get on the pitch yesterday. It's been far too long in the league! If he's fit, he should play! So comfortable on the ball. A joy to watch. He offers us a through ball which we've been lacking for years.
I like him, a solid performer but Ashley Westwood would have to make way.
I've written about Rudy Gestede on his separate thread. Worried!
Leandro Bacuna was very poor yesterday also. He's not a midfielder, he not a full back. What is he? That five year deal is looking very suspect.
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Lots of good things and a few not so good. Exactly what you would expect from a team that has had such a massive turn over in players.
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Comparing Gestede with Benteke is a tad unfair and there were plenty of games when the latter did not perform. However, what I firmly believe now is that we can adapt the style of play even during a game. We have got to think the future will be to use the full 15 players available to us and that at home, especially, we get players on to win. Bizarrely we may be in a position where we have a surplus of riches. I am struggling to name 'the perfect 11' but here's my stab at it based on what I've seen so far:-
Guzan
Crespo?/Hutton Richards Clark Amavi
Sanchez
Gil Gana Grealish
Traore
Sinclair
Subs:- Veretout, Westwood, Gestede, Ayew, Bacuna , Bunn, Baker
How is comparing Benteke to his replacement unfair? Seems pretty logical to me.
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On the free kick, I cast my mind back to zidane against England in euro 2004. Very similar position. James does exactly what many of you are saying Guzan should have done and positions himself more centrally so he has a chance if zidane whips it into the near post. Zidane flips it the other way and everyone criticises James on the basis that it was 'his side' and that you just need to let the wall protect the near post.
I don't think I've spotted any criticism of Guzan in the printed press or media?
Matt, I remember that goal really well and the criticism that went with it.
I remember Schmeichel saying that James was in the right position, had placed his wall well, but then took a step to the right before diving to the left and that step away cost him an extra yard in his dive, leading to a goal. The twat.
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Scratching my head thinking why Westwood continues to take our set pieces. Surely we have another player in the squad who is better than him? I'm sick to death of seeing him waste free kicks and corners.
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I left slightly disappointed as they were there for the taking
First time seen live this season and delighted with Richards Amavi and Gueye though he tired in the last twenty mins or so
Bacuna was getting in some good positions first half but lacked the quality to create anything
Gestede poor first half, improved afterwards
Sinclair should start every week
Sanchez is some player but we don't need him Gueye and Westwood for these sort of games
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Scratching my head thinking why Westwood continues to take our set pieces. Surely we have another player in the squad who is better than him? I'm sick to death of seeing him waste free kicks and corners.
Scratching my head thinking why Westwood continues to take our set pieces. Surely we have another player in the squad who is better than him? I'm sick to death of seeing him waste free kicks and corners.
Grealish normally takes our corner when he plays but I agree.
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Some good highlights here http://www.safc.com/news/team-news/2015/august/highlights-aston-villa-v-sunderland
Gestede looked a touch better than I thought at the game (ie not quite as shit)
Amavi looks great going forwards.
Don't agree it was bad Guzan positioning.
Noticeable that Bacuna is nowhere to be seen in the highlights
TV can't watch this because he's considered a foreign type. TV is sad :(
Seriously though why can't AVTV get this up as fast? Those highlights were available last night.
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TV can't watch this because he's considered a foreign type. TV is sad :(
TV need VPN.
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TV can't watch this because he's considered a foreign type. TV is sad :(
TV need VPN.
(http://images.rapgenius.com/10d24685d8bebe250e7ecb11d232e3b8.500x281x12.gif)
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TV should come home and not help other Countries economies by drinking huge amount of Molson using his hard earned money ;)
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Scratching my head thinking why Westwood continues to take our set pieces. Surely we have another player in the squad who is better than him? I'm sick to death of seeing him waste free kicks and corners.
We do have. Amavi who played and Veretout who didn't but Sherwood appears to like Sherwood.
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Scratching my head thinking why Westwood continues to take our set pieces. Surely we have another player in the squad who is better than him? I'm sick to death of seeing him waste free kicks and corners.
We do have. Amavi who played and Veretout who didn't but Sherwood appears to like Sherwood.
Definitely some truth to Sherwood liking Sherwood
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On the free kick, I cast my mind back to zidane against England in euro 2004. Very similar position. James does exactly what many of you are saying Guzan should have done and positions himself more centrally so he has a chance if zidane whips it into the near post. Zidane flips it the other way and everyone criticises James on the basis that it was 'his side' and that you just need to let the wall protect the near post.
I don't think I've spotted any criticism of Guzan in the printed press or media?
I don't think you will, Matt.
People just have to accept it was a great strike from the player.
The fact it went around, not up and over, the wall made it more unstoppable
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Guzan was a little to far over but it was a fantastic strike too.
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Scratching my head thinking why Westwood continues to take our set pieces. Surely we have another player in the squad who is better than him? I'm sick to death of seeing him waste free kicks and corners.
We do have. Amavi who played and Veretout who didn't but Sherwood appears to like Sherwood.
Definitely some truth to Sherwood liking Sherwood
Well at least the wood was right!!
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On the free kick, I cast my mind back to zidane against England in euro 2004. Very similar position. James does exactly what many of you are saying Guzan should have done and positions himself more centrally so he has a chance if zidane whips it into the near post. Zidane flips it the other way and everyone criticises James on the basis that it was 'his side' and that you just need to let the wall protect the near post.
I don't think I've spotted any criticism of Guzan in the printed press or media?
I don't think you will, Matt.
People just have to accept it was a great strike from the player.
The fact it went around, not up and over, the wall made it more unstoppable
Goals on sunday were critical of Guzan and Hutton for not jumping high enough
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Any other day we would of beat these 5-2, they was a disgrace with there keepers time wasting, it's slowly coming together when Adana is back to fitness then a front three of Sinclair Adana and gestede/ayew will look pretty good.
Richards for England surely it got to happen with the way he is playing
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Any other day we would of beat these 5-2, they was a disgrace with there keepers time wasting, it's slowly coming together when Adana is back to fitness then a front three of Sinclair Adana and gestede/ayew will look pretty good.
Richards for England surely it got to happen with the way he is playing
I'd rather he didn't. Every time one of ours gets in the England set-up they're as good as sold.
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I am surprised nobody noticed that after Guzan set the wall up he then pointed to move it right. It was a good strike but a wall should be positioned to cover that type of shot. You take the chance that a for a right footer to curl it up and over the wall into the top left it would be some goal.
Annoyed with the ref when their goalkeeper was time wasting in added time and the ref signalled that he was going to add time and then blew up 2 seconds after 4 minutes.
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Guzan - 5 - thought at the time he got the wall wrong. M'Vila could only really go for that side of the goal so an extra man on the end of the wall or would have made M'Vila have to bend it outrageously. As it was he hit it well but it wasn't as if it snuck in just past the post. Unlucky for the second, though. That's 4 points we've lost to deflections.
Hutton - 6 - Willing runner but no quality in the final third. Did his defending job well enough.
Richards - 6 - Nothing he could do for the goal that should have been. Thought he defended well. Please don't get injured soon.
Clark - 5 - Thought he did okay until he got turned too easily for the goal.
Amavi - 6 - Good first half and promising start to the second but looked knack erred as the half wore on and the overlapping runs stopped; the skinning attempts stopped and he needs more time to get fully fit.
Bacuna - 5 - Willing runner but poor
Sanchez - 7 - Good on the ball and if he lost it or was in a cul-de-sac he always seem to get the ball back or manoeuvre it to another player. Looked bright and promising.
Westwood - 7 - As above. He tried to keep things ticking over and made more runs into the box. Unlucky with his shot late on.
Gana - 7 - Bright and promising. Always looking to carry the ball. Would have taken him off with 10-15 mins to go though as he was another who tired.
Sinclair - 8 - For the goals and for being able to take a penalty.
Gestede - 6 - slow and off the pace to begin with but I think he grew into the game as the second half wore on. Held the ball better, laid it off better, and his flicks started to come off. Should have scored late on.
Subs:
Gil - 5 - Poor for me. Went sideways too often and offered little to suggest Jack has competition or Vertout will struggle to get in the team when he's up and running. What disappointed me was his decision making. Too slow on the ball and the penalty decision wasn't one that needed to have been taken as the ball broke to him in the box with a lot of space for him to have hit it first time. He didn't and the opportunity turned into a yellow card.
We are promising and it was nice to see us on top against a team. It is only August so we will still take time to get it all together and hopefully not too many will be away over the international weekend as we still need to keep working on the training pitch. I hope that these types of game will soon become what we haven't had for a long time; a routine home win.
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Pretty good assessment Peter, i'd agree with most of that.
I think a top class keeper would have been a bit disappointed with the first goal, but it wasn't a howler by any means. Bacuna (who i like) was our least effective player. Sinclair MOM for the goals, Sanchez gets better and could be a star. Clark is good at blocking stuff (particularly crosses) but time and time again lets us down with odd moments of atricious positional play. Happened once in both halves and he paid the price in the second half. Gill struggled a bit coming on and his touch was poor which led to the yellow as you say. I think he'll offer a lot this season though. Gestede is limited but if we play to his strengths he'll be very effective. I would stick with him and Sinclair as the first choice pair unless we are able to get Austin.
2 goals should be enough to beat Sunderland, so the problem for me was more at the other end and despite us missing a couple of our best attacking players.
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History is just repeating itself.
Like history just tends to do.
Repeatedly.
And we're here to witness it.
It's Andy Gray...then David Platt...and now Christian Benteke.
Sell our mega-star player and the result is a whole lot of fun...
(the resulting sort of fun is, of course, variable.)
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Far. Out. Man.
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I am with you on the matter of time wasting OMVF. It is now so ingrained in the game, along with stealing yards which their keeper was up to all the time, it is called Game Management and has only come about through weak and self opinionated refereeing. Regarding the time wasting the referee eventually carded the keeper but he instantly went back to doing it immediately he was shown the card. The take appears to be I have paid the price of my time wasting so I am free to go on doing it. No, it should be red for not stopping time wasting. If a player gets yellow for an outburst of foul language at the ref is he then permitted to carry on doing it? No he will get red because it upsets the ref. Time wasting and yards stealing and all the other cheating only upsets the fans and they don't matter.
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I don't care about players getting cards for time-wasting and neither do they. I want the time back. It should be punished with an extra two minutes added on, that would stop it.
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I don't care about players getting cards for time-wasting and neither do they. I want the time back. It should be punished with an extra two minutes added on, that would stop it.
Precisely.
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I am with you on the matter of time wasting OMVF. It is now so ingrained in the game, along with stealing yards which their keeper was up to all the time, it is called Game Management and has only come about through weak and self opinionated refereeing. Regarding the time wasting the referee eventually carded the keeper but he instantly went back to doing it immediately he was shown the card
Not to mention that while Pantilimon was doing it he was holding his watch in the air to show that he was adding on the time for it, yet still blew for full time at 94 minutes on the dot.
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That's not a bad idea Percy. You could end up with games regularly going for 100 mins as opposed to 94 though? The players will have to get even fitter! Maybe also a scenario of the losing team ( or drawing team on top) deliberately time wasting to get an extra couple of minutes. Or would it only apply to the side who is winning? Hmm - maybe needs a bit of thought
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Strict additional time keeping is only upheld when one the Champions League clubs needs it.
It's one of many grey areas which are kept to allow enough room for the big boys to exploit in their favour.
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Take the time keeping away from the ref like in Rugby, any time wasting or injury the clock stops for all to see,
Then get a big horn to blow for full time, not a poxy little whistle a big massive horn blow is what is needed
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I don't care about players getting cards for time-wasting and neither do they. I want the time back. It should be punished with an extra two minutes added on, that would stop it.
or a free kick could be awarded to the other team. Maybe from the centre spot
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I understand the view that time wasting can be nullified by the length of the game being extended but that in my opinion is simply more of the manipulations called Game Management. If you take away the punishment of a potential red card, players will simply take the piss and games will routinely take 100 minutes or more. In addition games like the Sunderland game if extended for Sunderland's time wasting gives them more time to snatch a 3-2 win with a breakaway goal. So much that is bad about current refereeing has come about from the rules being blurred and muddled by referees taking "initiatives" the rules of the game clearly say are not permitted.
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The thing that annoyed me most was them deliberately pretending to take a free kick from the wrong place, knowing the crowd would react and bring it to the attention of the ref. They then go through the rigmarole of taking it back to the correct place and another minute is wasted. From our point of view it would have been better to ignore it.
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Yes to that Chris but to add insult to cheating they would steal twenty yards, the crowd would react, the referee would wave an arm limply, the player would take the ball back three feet then when the referee had his back turned the ball would go another five yards further upfield. It is cheating, pure and simple and the fact that virtually all referees turn a blind eye to it demeans and impoverishes the game. See also Throws, foul.
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I'm so glad we don't timewaste
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I wish we did sometimes. It's a way a breaking the flow of the game up in the last 5/10 mins. So many games we have need to do this, but we end up inviting pressure.
Is it right... probably not, but I'd rather have the few extra points disrupting the end of games like this than being the nice guys all the time.
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Their total lack of ambition after the equaliser is pathetic really. I'd be pissed off if I were a Sunderland fan. Teams should be targeting our defensive weakness. After they started brightly and got their second we could well have been there for the taking. But to start timewasting after 60 minutes? Pathetic. Very negative indeed. If we were Man City I could understand it but we're a side who finished below them last season and has struggled to get going at the start of this while players bed in.
All that bollocks from their keeper was ridiculous. It must have wound up their own fans too, surely?
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Sunderland were more than weak ! Is there an English word for this. I think they are going to have. A season of struggle if anything the midfield is non existent. It is frustrating there wasn't a victory and that's more to do with villa than Sunderland earning the point- time wasting aside.
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Febrile is the word I think you are looking for footy.
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I've just had an awesome home-made chicken vindaloo, so my head's tripping a bit, less bothered about opposition teams timewasting right now!
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Having just watched the AVTV highlights I'd only add:
Some of our passing moves were really very good, especially involving Gana
I didn't think Amavi had a brilliant game but he was still very involved
Gestede had a couple of moments that were better than I'd realised - he still should have scored though.
The openness for their second was very bad. Bad by Clark. Poor by Sanchez. Amavi too far up the pitch
Looking at it it seemed like Sinclair practically played up top with bacuna often I'm behind the forwards. It looked like more of a 433 at the game
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Post match comments from TS suggested that we aren't playing with a fixed formation so our shape is naturally going to change from 4231 to 433 to 442 to 41212 depending on when you look at it...the emphasis seems to be on our midfield 4 or 5 rotating with lots of movement and passing which can't be a bad thing as long as they know where their supposed to be when we haven't got the ball and cover each other.
Clark was at fault diving in for their second...he should have known that Amavi and Richards behind him were both out of position so he should never have committed himself to allow their player to cut in and have a free shot at goal. Also made a couple of rash challenges sliding in allowing their players to literally skip past him down the wing as he goes flying off the pitch. He needs to learn to be patient and stay on his feet.
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Yeah the rotation is really good. I'm really happy with our midfield.
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I'm so glad we don't timewaste
i`ll take all the timewasting we can get away with if we`re 1-0 up 5 minutes from time.
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Guzan has done some quality time wasting for us over the years.
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Guzan has done some quality time wasting for us over the years.
Are you not confusing time wasting with being a fucking waste of time?
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Yes to that Chris but to add insult to cheating they would steal twenty yards, the crowd would react, the referee would wave an arm limply, the player would take the ball back three feet then when the referee had his back turned the ball would go another five yards further upfield. It is cheating, pure and simple and the fact that virtually all referees turn a blind eye to it demeans and impoverishes the game. See also Throws, foul.
Foul throws are my feckin bugbear. If anyone doesn't pay attention to it you watch the thrower in just about every Premier League game you will see and at some point you'll see at least unbelievably foul throw. There are so many occasions where the thrower is like a bloody shot putter and its very rare the referee or the the assistant spot it or pull it up.
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Sunderland were more than weak ! Is there an English word for this.
American coffee?
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Sunderland were more than weak ! Is there an English word for this.
American coffee?
Footling
It includes time wasting!
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Only just got round to watching the extended highlights. How the hell we didn't win I'll never know. We missed so many chances and on another day we could have won 5/6-2.
The two goals we conceded weren't very good and the Clarke non challenge and/or closing down for their second goal was piss poor in my opinion. I like Clarke but that was terrible defending.
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Clark.
I like some of the ideas on here for clamping down on timewasting.
My thoughts are that for excessive TW, warn the perpetrator; subsequent offences result in the award of an indirect free-kick for ungentlemanly conduct.
Imagine! A goal-kick suddenly becomes a free-kick to the attacking side on your six-yard box!
Any thoughts?