Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Villa Memories => Topic started by: The Laughing Policeman on July 08, 2015, 10:23:22 AM
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Two clips have been put on the new BFI Player of the Villa v Blackburn and Preston in 1904 & 05.
Blacburn (http://player.bfi.org.uk/film/watch-blackburn-rovers-v-aston-villa-1904-1904/) Preston (http://player.bfi.org.uk/film/watch-preston-north-end-v-aston-villa-1905-1905/)
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Fantastic. I love that kind of thing.
I know very little about old kit design but what fabric is the kit I wonder? Is it knitted even, I'd pay plenty for that pattern and someone to knit it up if so.
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If the footage is from 1905 then Jack Grealish's Great-Great (great?) Granddad may well be playing for us.
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If the footage is from 1905 then Jack Grealish's Great-Great (great?) Granddad may well be playing for us.
Billy Garratty played centre forward in both games . We lost 4-0 to Blackburn in 1904 and 2-0 to Preston in 1905
Happy Days!!
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If the footage is from 1905 then Jack Grealish's Great-Great (great?) Granddad may well be playing for us.
Billy Garratty played centre forward in both games . We lost 4-0 to Blackburn in 1904 and 2-0 to Preston in 1905
Happy Days!!
I wish I'd never found them now. :'(
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Truly wonderful stuff!
Love the fact that the keepers wear the same kit as the outfield players but distinguish themselves as the keeper by wearing a cap!
Tomorrow, I am going to get my haircut, centre parting brilliantined to my scalp, start growing a tash and ask the lady next door to knit me a 1905 Villa jumper.
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I noticed the Villa goalie in the Preston game was wearing gloves. When I was a kid, I don't ever recall goalies wearing them until sometime in the sixties.
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I noticed the Villa goalie in the Preston game was wearing gloves. When I was a kid, I don't ever recall goalies wearing them until sometime in the sixties.
Our huge goalie in the both games was one of our greatest players, Billy George. Team photos from that time show him literally dwarfing everybody else.
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I noticed the Villa goalie in the Preston game was wearing gloves. When I was a kid, I don't ever recall goalies wearing them until sometime in the sixties.
No I don't either Dave. But in earlier years it was commonplace. I have seen pictures of Elisha Scott of Liverpool (who played in the twenties) wearing gloves and also socks pulled up over his knees for protection.
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Anorak Alert.
Has anyone looked closely at the players as they walk past the camera in these two clips?
The Blackburn match is odd because six of players are from the double team (Jas Cowan, Athersmith, Wheldon, Smith, Crabtree, & Spencer). I thought it odd that Spencer didn’t lead the team out which he should do as he was captain in 1904-05. Instead, the team is lead out by Jas Cowan instead, which is a bit unfortunate as he retired in 1903! Also, Charlie Athersmith left for Small Heath in 1901 aswell as Fred Wheldon who left for WBA in 1900. Therefore, I don’t think the match took place on 10/09/1904.
Looking through various Blackburn games around that time I believe it is the 0-0 from 18/03/1899.
It would also explain how Garraty & George look much younger (in George’s case slimmer and Garraty without his massive waxed moustache)
If you cross reference the players in the film and team photos from the 2010 complete record book, the team of the Blackburn match as they walk past the camera is:
Cowan (carrying a ball, presumably captain), Athersmith, Bowman, Wheldon, Johnson, Smith, Crabtree, Spencer, Aston (by process of elimination), Garraty, George (with cap in hand).
I am the only one sad enough to notice this?
For Preston match on 11/11/1905, the players walk past the camera in this order:
Spencer (captain), Pearson, George, Bache, Evans, Hall, Hadley (I think?), Hampton, Leake, Allen (by process of elimination), and finally Garraty.
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Anorak Alert.
Has anyone looked closely at the players as they walk past the camera in these two clips?
The Blackburn match is odd because six of players are from the double team (Jas Cowan, Athersmith, Wheldon, Smith, Crabtree, & Spencer). I thought it odd that Spencer didn’t lead the team out which he should do as he was captain in 1904-05. Instead, the team is lead out by Jas Cowan instead, which is a bit unfortunate as he retired in 1903! Also, Charlie Athersmith left for Small Heath in 1901 aswell as Fred Wheldon who left for WBA in 1900. Therefore, I don’t think the match took place on 10/09/1904.
Looking through various Blackburn games around that time I believe it is the 0-0 from 18/03/1899.
It would also explain how Garraty & George look much younger (in George’s case slimmer and Garraty without his massive waxed moustache)
If you cross reference the players in the film and team photos from the 2010 complete record book, the team of the Blackburn match as they walk past the camera is:
Cowan (carrying a ball, presumably captain), Athersmith, Bowman, Wheldon, Johnson, Smith, Crabtree, Spencer, Aston (by process of elimination), Garraty, George (with cap in hand).
I am the only one sad enough to notice this?
For Preston match on 11/11/1905, the players walk past the camera in this order:
Spencer (captain), Pearson, George, Bache, Evans, Hall, Hadley (I think?), Hampton, Leake, Allen (by process of elimination), and finally Garraty.
Great spot MN. Two other bits of supporting observation.Blackburn are wearing a light coloured halved shirt with dark belts on their shorts.In 1899 they had light blue halved shirts with red belts.By 1904 they were in dark blue halves which would have been shown clearly as dark on this film, they also did not have belts on their shorts by then. Finally the trees behind the stand have no leaves which would have been the case up north in March, in September they would have been in full leaf. So I think you are right - top sleuthing!
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Really sharing the anorak now ! Those pitch markings 'goal area arcs' were obsolete by 1902 when they were replaced with rectangle goal areas minus penalty arcs.
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So , if the film is the 1898/99 March fixture, then this is the first moving footage of a league championship winning Villa side! Six weeks later the team , which in this game were on a five match run of no wins, went on to take the title at home to Liverpool.
The first known football footage was at Blacburn'so ground earlier that season.The then current champions , Sheffield United, don'the seem to have featured in moving film until much later so this is probably the first footage of league champions ever.
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Dammit! I can't watch because I'm outside the UK.
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You can't say dwarf any more Ron. Ken Dodd has been given pelters for commenting about Pluto the dwarf planet that he can't see any dwarves on it.
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Brilliant deduction but doesn't the ball end up in our net at the end of the footage? Doesn't mean it was given but it took a lot to have a goal chalked off back then.
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doesn't the ball end up in our net at the end of the footage? Doesn't mean it was given but it took a lot to have a goal chalked off back then.
I thought that too, so I looked up the match report in the Argus and ten minutes into the second half Blackburn had a goal disallowed for an infringement by a player under the posts. Late into the game Blackburn were awarded a penalty, which George saved. It was retaken as he 'moved too early'. George saved that one aswell! Its as shame there is no footage of it (it was late into the game so they may have ran out of film as the disallowed goal is the last piece of footage).
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Before this thread disappears I've written to the BFI quoting MN's great research and asking them to change their notes and category-it's Victorian football now!
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What a brilliant thread. Love it.
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doesn't the ball end up in our net at the end of the footage? Doesn't mean it was given but it took a lot to have a goal chalked off back then.
I thought that too, so I looked up the match report in the Argus and ten minutes into the second half Blackburn had a goal disallowed for an infringement by a player under the posts. Late into the game Blackburn were awarded a penalty, which George saved. It was retaken as he 'moved too early'. George saved that one aswell! Its as shame there is no footage of it (it was late into the game so they may have ran out of film as the disallowed goal is the last piece of footage).
Great digging. Villa in 1899. Wow. Can't stop looking at each and every one of them as they run out. These were our legends.