Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: SoccerHQ on May 30, 2015, 07:55:00 PM
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What is the problem then? Why do we not at least compete in these finals and give the opposition something to worry about?
Three major finals I've watched us play in my lifetime and in the three games we probably didn't even have 5 shots in total in the games.
I think Dave Woodhall has alluded to this on a few occasions, on cup final days we have a lower league mentality of turning up and happy to be there rather than rolling our sleeves up and getting on with winning. Today the first 15-20 minutes totally set the tone for the match.
2000 and today were embarrassing, 2010 less so as at least that was close. You're talking about three totally different squads though over that period. We just don't have that winning mentality on cup final days I'm afraid, I worried at the time that the win over Liverpool seemed our "cup final victory" and so it proved.
I'll finish by totally exonerating our fans, I thought they were brilliant from the first minute up to 3-0 as tbh the team gave them nothing to work with.
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Of the last 5 haven't we won 3? I know it's over a long span of time but that's a decent return isn't it?
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Of the last 5 haven't we won 3? I know it's over a long span of time but that's a decent return isn't it?
I can only comment on the ones I've seen and lived through. I was too young to remember the league cup wins. It seems to have become an issue since the 90s finished anyway as in our last three appearances we've had what about 4 shots on target in total.
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It would be nice not to be the underdog for once. I think I am right in saying that of the last 5 finals stretching back to 82 we have been the underdog every time. The fact that we are says more about us as a club than the eventual performance or result. And the fact we have won three of those games despite it is remarkable if you think about the odds being against us.
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1996 we were favourites
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It would be nice not to be the underdog for once. I think I am right in saying that of the last 5 finals stretching back to 82 we have been the underdog every time. The fact that we are says more about us as a club than the eventual performance or result. And the fact we have won three of those games despite it is remarkable if you think about the odds being against us.
Yes it would be nice one of these years to say have a Cardiff or something like Portsmouth did in 2008 although seeing our recent in recent years we'd probably fcuk that up aswell.
Might get a few shots on target though.
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It would be nice not to be the underdog for once. I think I am right in saying that of the last 5 finals stretching back to 82 we have been the underdog every time. The fact that we are says more about us as a club than the eventual performance or result. And the fact we have won three of those games despite it is remarkable if you think about the odds being against us.
We weren't the underdogs against Leeds, but the rest I agree,
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We've snugly settled into a losing mentality. More often than not we can't even be bothered to fight against it.
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It would be nice not to be the underdog for once. I think I am right in saying that of the last 5 finals stretching back to 82 we have been the underdog every time. The fact that we are says more about us as a club than the eventual performance or result. And the fact we have won three of those games despite it is remarkable if you think about the odds being against us.
All well and good. Today we played like losers and lost. No belief. None.
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1994 we were a good side on our day but man utd were the best team in the country.
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1996 we were favourites
Were we? Leeds under Wilkinson had a decent side back then. It's possible my mind is playing tricks but I didn't think we were favourites back then. Leeds had won the league only 4 years prior.
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The FA cup will always remain the holy grail and sadly looks like it will always remain unachievable for us.
We should be attempting to win the league cup at least again on occasions as that competition has fewer rounds, isn't taking as seriously by bigger teams so you get more mixed finals in terms of participation from different teams and we'd have even reached it with Lambert in charge if he hadn't totally screwed up the Bradford tie.
I could live with that, I just long to see us win a proper trophy again. It would make all this worthwhile.
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1996 we were favourites
Were we? Leeds under Wilkinson had a decent side back then. It's possible my mind is playing tricks but I didn't think we were favourites back then. Leeds had won the league only 4 years prior.
Very much so.
Leeds were a couple of years away from putting together their good turn-of-the-century team and we were expected to dick them.
Edit: this was their team that day:
GK 1 England John Lukic
RWB 2 Republic of Ireland Gary Kelly
CB 5 South Africa Lucas Radebe Substituted off 65'
CB 6 England David Wetherall
CB 12 England John Pemberton
LWB 11 Wales Gary Speed
CM 4 England Carlton Palmer
CM 22 England Mark Ford Substituted off 46'
CM 10 Scotland Gary McAllister (c)
CF 27 Scotland Andy Gray
CF 21 Ghana Tony Yeboah
Mark Ford? John Pemberton? Andy Gray, an 18 year old child making his debut and following it with a career in the lower leagues?
We were definitely expected to win.
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1996 we were favourites
Were we? Leeds under Wilkinson had a decent side back then. It's possible my mind is playing tricks but I didn't think we were favourites back then. Leeds had won the league only 4 years prior.
We were favourites. They were in poor poor form and only had yeboah. Tomas brolin was a laughing stock. We were fourth and in two cups.
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That entire period is a bit of a blur. I'd just moved to the U.S. in 1995. The Internet didn't really exist and getting to watch Villa games was a challenge. I certainly wasn't watching football on TV as I can today. It just wasn't available. So ok 1 final in 5 we were favoured to win and we won 3.
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From watching that final on DVD and reading a few of the reports around that time, Leeds set up that day like we did. One player isolated upfront and no urge to commit men forward.
We had a very good team in those days let's not forget. Bozzy, Ugo, Southgate, Staunton, Townsend, Ian Taylor, GOD, Yorke, Savo, not all of them likeable but lots of winners and real quality there. That was backed up by us regularly finishing in the top 6 in those days and it was considered underachievement when we did actually finish 5th in 1996/97.
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We've snugly settled into a losing mentality. More often than not we can't even be bothered to fight against it.
Pretty much what sherwood said after the match. I like the guy, he speaks well and will be interesting to see what he does in the summer but he will need lots of cash to turn us around
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Thing is if Arsenal played at their best we were always going to struggle. But our level
of performance was an utter disgrace.
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Of the last 5 haven't we won 3? I know it's over a long span of time but that's a decent return isn't it?
Woop de fucking do
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Of the last 5 haven't we won 3? I know it's over a long span of time but that's a decent return isn't it?
Woop de fucking do
That raised half a smile and half a tear.
Still, more of a smile than I've had for the last five hours so thanks for that.
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Of the last 5 haven't we won 3? I know it's over a long span of time but that's a decent return isn't it?
Woop de fucking do
Have we? today and Man Ure and Chelsea are our last three aint they :-(
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Of the last 5 haven't we won 3? I know it's over a long span of time but that's a decent return isn't it?
Woop de fucking do
Have we? today and Man Ure and Chelsea are our last three aint they :-(
Five of seven, I reckon. Today, manure, manure, Leeds, bayern, Everton, Norwich.
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I've said it so often I sound like a cracked record but every time we ever appear on the big stage we behave like day trippers happy to have a nice day out and never expecting it to last. The only time we've ever had the "This is where we belong" mentality was Leeds in 1996, reinforced by fifth the following year being a disappointment.
Two ex- managers sum it up:
"The hardest job at this club is persuading it that it can win trophies" - BFR.
"Why do people keep asking me when will it go wrong? Crack that mentality and I've cracked this club." - John Gregory.
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I've said it so often I sound like a cracked record but every time we ever appear on the big stage we behave like day trippers happy to have a nice day out and never expecting it to last. The only time we've ever had the "This is where we belong" mentality was Leeds in 1996, reinforced by fifth the following year being a disappointment.
Two ex- managers sum it up:
"The hardest job at this club is persuading it that it can win trophies" - BFR.
"Why do people keep asking me when will it go wrong? Crack that mentality and I've cracked this club." - John Gregory.
and in the 1971 League Cup Final where we took the game to Spurs from the kick off....and still lost!
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Of the last 5 haven't we won 3? I know it's over a long span of time but that's a decent return isn't it?
Woop de fucking do
Have we? today and Man Ure and Chelsea are our last three aint they :-(
Five of seven, I reckon. Today, manure, manure, Leeds, bayern, Everton, Norwich.
I've pretty much wiped 2000 from my mind as well. Give it a few years and I think we'll all assume that today didn't happen either.
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Of the last 5 haven't we won 3? I know it's over a long span of time but that's a decent return isn't it?
Woop de fucking do
Have we? today and Man Ure and Chelsea are our last three aint they :-(
Five of seven, I reckon. Today, manure, manure, Leeds, bayern, Everton, Norwich.
I've pretty much wiped 2000 from my mind as well. Give it a few years and I think we'll all assume that today didn't happen either.
Hadn't we all agreed that it never happened?
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Of the last 5 haven't we won 3? I know it's over a long span of time but that's a decent return isn't it?
Woop de fucking do
Have we? today and Man Ure and Chelsea are our last three aint they :-(
Five of seven, I reckon. Today, manure, manure, Leeds, bayern, Everton, Norwich.
I've pretty much wiped 2000 from my mind as well. Give it a few years and I think we'll all assume that today didn't happen either.
Hadn't we all agreed that it never happened?
What never happened?
*looks around anxiously*
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We were 2nd best today, all week I've said I just want us to give it a go and we didn't, that's what hurts
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That and £90 for a ticket
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I've said it so often I sound like a cracked record but every time we ever appear on the big stage we behave like day trippers happy to have a nice day out and never expecting it to last. The only time we've ever had the "This is where we belong" mentality was Leeds in 1996, reinforced by fifth the following year being a disappointment.
Two ex- managers sum it up:
"The hardest job at this club is persuading it that it can win trophies" - BFR.
"Why do people keep asking me when will it go wrong? Crack that mentality and I've cracked this club." - John Gregory.
Yes that was the point I was getting at. I knew you'd said that before on here so I apologise for stealing your lines Dave.
(Nice cameo on before kick off btw, Amfy, who else was on there Legion?)
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I've never seen us win a trophy. I never will.
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58 years and counting.
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We've only scored from open play on one of last five visits to Wembley by my reckoning.
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To be honest, no complaints about the result.
What revs me is the fact that arsenal clearly wanted it so much more than our team. That hurts. No fight, no ambition, and no ideas.
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I've said it so often I sound like a cracked record but every time we ever appear on the big stage we behave like day trippers happy to have a nice day out and never expecting it to last. The only time we've ever had the "This is where we belong" mentality was Leeds in 1996, reinforced by fifth the following year being a disappointment.
Two ex- managers sum it up:
"The hardest job at this club is persuading it that it can win trophies" - BFR.
"Why do people keep asking me when will it go wrong? Crack that mentality and I've cracked this club." - John Gregory.
Yes that was the point I was getting at. I knew you'd said that before on here so I apologise for stealing your lines Dave.
(Nice cameo on before kick off btw, Amfy, who else was on there Legion?)
I saw Cheltenhamlion, too. And Woodhall, obv.
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I think the coaching seriously needs to be looked at. I never understand when we have the ball in a wide position, 3 or 4 players head towards the corner flag rather than in to the box.
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1996 we were favourites
Were we? Leeds under Wilkinson had a decent side back then. It's possible my mind is playing tricks but I didn't think we were favourites back then. Leeds had won the league only 4 years prior.
Definitely. We were in the top four all season while Leeds were lower half. They were frankly shit. Any time with Brian Deane on the wing . .
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I think the coaching seriously needs to be looked at. I never understand when we have the ball in a wide position, 3 or 4 players head towards the corner flag rather than in to the box.
Many of these players have been coached by 2/3 different managerial teams. The common denominator is the shite players. There's about 6 I'd keep from the current squad. We're talking 50m of investment just to compete with stoke and swansea. It's bleak
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1996 we were favourites
Were we? Leeds under Wilkinson had a decent side back then. It's possible my mind is playing tricks but I didn't think we were favourites back then. Leeds had won the league only 4 years prior.
Very much so.
Leeds were a couple of years away from putting together their good turn-of-the-century team and we were expected to dick them.
Edit: this was their team that day:
GK 1 England John Lukic
RWB 2 Republic of Ireland Gary Kelly
CB 5 South Africa Lucas Radebe Substituted off 65'
CB 6 England David Wetherall
CB 12 England John Pemberton
LWB 11 Wales Gary Speed
CM 4 England Carlton Palmer
CM 22 England Mark Ford Substituted off 46'
CM 10 Scotland Gary McAllister (c)
CF 27 Scotland Andy Gray
CF 21 Ghana Tony Yeboah
Mark Ford? John Pemberton? Andy Gray, an 18 year old child making his debut and following it with a career in the lower leagues?
We were definitely expected to win.
I think Leeds were favourites until news came through Carlton Palmer had passed a fitness test and then the odds shifted. ;)
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We were a top four team in '96. Leeds were midtable wasteland. Dicked them as we should, like Arsenal did yesterday.
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Of the last 5 haven't we won 3? I know it's over a long span of time but that's a decent return isn't it?
2 from 5. Leeds and Yanited 96 & 94. Defeats to Chelsea, ManUre and Arse this century.
3 from 6. Above plus Bayern.
Supercups, Intertwobobs and Hong Kong 7s omitted. Maybe time to enter that Midlands trophy thing that Cooper is always banging on about.
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I just don't like the 'at least we got there' guff which I have seen from a lot of fans and even a player or two (Hutton I think), that reinforces the daytripper mentality. Unfortunately, that is a view definitely pedalled by fans younger than I am, the ones in their 20s. You can see it on social media, many of them will be very quick to compare us to our neighbours as well.
If we had put in a performance and lost then I would congratulate them on getting there. However, to use all that energy to get to a final and then play with absolutely no energy on the day just undermines the whole Cup run for me. I didn't see enough hurt from the players after the goals went in, some of whom may never play on a stage like that again and they seriously blew it.
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I just don't like the 'at least we got their guff' which I have seen from a lot of fans and even a player or two (Hutton I think), that reinforces the daytripper mentality. Unfortunately, that is a view definitely pedalled by fans younger than I am, the ones in their 20s. You can see it on social media, many of them will be very quick to compare us to our neighbours as well.
If we had put in a performance and lost then I would congratulate them on getting there. However, to use all that energy to get to a final and then play with absolutely no energy on the day just undermines the whole Cup run for me. I didn't see enough hurt from the players after the goals went in, some of whom may never play on a stage like that again and they seriously blew it.
Spot on. It's like the banner at the sty. Totally embarrassing and makes us look very small time, particularly as they did it to us when they went to league cup final.
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What does at least we got their guff mean? I genuinely have no idea.
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I've never seen us win a trophy. I never will.
you will tugby, don't know when and what....but you will
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There was a guy on Midlands today who they interviewed after the game who said pretty much the same, he didn't care about the result and was just happy he had a day out at Wembley. I too don't get that attitude either although it's no excuse for the team to have it aswell, they should be above that.
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What does at least we got their guff mean? I genuinely have no idea.
I have corrected it, clearly still hungover in more ways than one when I wrote that. A Cup final defeat is one thing, but shoddy grammar is quite another.
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What does at least we got their guff mean? I genuinely have no idea.
I just don't like the "at least we got there" guff
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Thanks Dave, I've let myself down. I would have expected an angry PM from Bad English for that back in 2005.
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Coming second is nothing to ashamed of -not that it excuses such a disappointing performance.
I certainly prefer it to being knocked out by the Blades in round 3!