Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Tokyo Sexwhale on May 27, 2015, 10:48:35 PM
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Interesting interview:
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/may/27/john-gregory-aston-villa-fa-cup-final-2000
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Good stuff.
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Tim Sherwood reminds me a lot of JG. I said a few weeks back I think we as a club need charismatic managers in, they connect with the fanbase more and get us in the media regularly as we don't have the exciting image others like Newcastle, Spurs and West Ham have cultivated over the years despite not winning anything like us.
The Gregory years were a rollercoaster, the first two at least, so many dramatic matches (again up to the 2000 final when it became very mundane thereafter), top of the league...then down to 7th 6 weeks later, yet more false dawns and missed opportunities.
I do make Doug right though, Muzzy Izzet certainly wouldn't have won us the league or got us top 4. Another very expensive british player coming up to 30 JG liked to sign.
Still interesting days back then. I think we need to be cautious on Saturday but that dosen't mean we should fear crossing the halfway line like in 2000.
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Whatever happens Saturday i just hope TS has a go and we leave with our heads held high unlike 2000. That was awful and followed a tedious SF as well
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Always liked John Gregory. Can't understand why others don't despite that awful cup final.
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His biggest error was changing a winning team & brining his old favourites in for the cup final team. I loved him like Tim now for his almost maverick style, but that day - for whatever reason - he chose to play safe.
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To give him his due, in a world of "he loves the club, he does" nonsense applied to anyone who is half decent and stays anywhere a reasonable amount of time, Gregory clearly does love the club.
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Whatever happens Saturday i just hope TS has a go and we leave with our heads held high unlike 2000. That was awful and followed a tedious SF as well
In all honesty, we were lucky to win that semi final. Eidur Gudjohnsen gave our defence a torrid time and they missed an absolute sitter in extra time.
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That's a great interview, and JG knows as much as we do that he was within one good attacking performance of being an all time Villa hero. Okay so he and his team bottled it, doesn't take away the fact that he got us there, or that we topped the league under him for weeks on end.
When we are slagging off Villa managers, despite the 2000 cup final and his handling of Collymore, JG still gets a pass.
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Whatever happens Saturday i just hope TS has a go and we leave with our heads held high unlike 2000. That was awful and followed a tedious SF as well
In all honesty, we were lucky to win that semi final. Eidur Gudjohnsen gave our defence a torrid time and they missed an absolute sitter in extra time.
I doubt there has been many final cup runs which haven't involved luck at some point.
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Whatever happens Saturday i just hope TS has a go and we leave with our heads held high unlike 2000. That was awful and followed a tedious SF as well
In all honesty, we were lucky to win that semi final. Eidur Gudjohnsen gave our defence a torrid time and they missed an absolute sitter in extra time.
I doubt there has been many final cup runs which haven't involved luck at some point.
That is true, but that semi-final outlined the method of play for the final. JG, once the glittering prize was within realistic grasp, reverted to safety first and the percentage game.
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“I always remember I criticised our training ground once, before they rebuilt Bodymoor Heath, and Doug told me: ‘Bill Shankly said that’s the best training ground he had ever seen’ – which Bill Shankly had said. But he said it 25 years before.
Classic. That rings true :)
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“I had 40,000 Villa fans there that day and as I walked out the tunnel, in what was the old Wembley, all the Villa fans were at that end of the stadium. The sight was beautiful. It wasn’t just ‘wow’, it was a thing of beauty: ‘This is my team.’ I can see it all now still, it was just washed in claret and blue."
I always liked Gregory, he lost the plot a bit towards the end, but his heart was in the right place. I really thought we'd win that final the run that we'd had and the great team we had then.
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If you want to have a few bad words about ex-Villa managers save them for someone other than JG. We have had so many duffers recently, TSM, TSM2 and the worst of the bunch Dolly.
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Don't forget pube-head.
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JG is Mr Aston Villa imo
Great read, I don't know about muzzi izzet if he would or wouldn't have made the diference, typical egotistic doug, then doug signs ginola wtf I knew then and said then he wont work. Doug held this fantastic club back for decades.
John Gregory was and still is a great Man UTV
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I remember going to Bodymoor Heath and him calling me over to give me his initialed beanie hat.
Very similar to Sherwood, British with his heart on his sleeve.
His Book is also well worth a read
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Whatever happens Saturday i just hope TS has a go and we leave with our heads held high unlike 2000. That was awful and followed a tedious SF as well
In all honesty, we were lucky to win that semi final. Eidur Gudjohnsen gave our defence a torrid time and they missed an absolute sitter in extra time.
I doubt there has been many final cup runs which haven't involved luck at some point.
True, but we had a huge slab of it in that semi final. Holdsworth's miss (I think it was him) in extra time was an absolute sitter.
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Good read I like Gregory top man.
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I always liked John, I met him once at the ground, really sarcastic and dry sense of humour, I still think he got the final 100% wrong but I'll forgive him
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I also wasn't convinced that izzet was the man
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Got a lot of time for Gregory. We had some excellent moments under him. Some good sides. It wasn't always the prettiest but we were well organised and had a few mercurial players like Merson and Hendrie who could provide entertainment, if the rest of the side was more regimented.
He did spend a lot, but Dougy always seemed to spend 5-6 months after the point we genuinely could have done with another player or too. We desperately missed Ugo when he got injured, around the time we were top one year. We needed a replacement but didn't bring on in. Ehiogu was playing as well as any CH in the league at that point.
The cup final was monumentally disappointing and as gutted as any of us are, I don't there's anyone who will have felt, and still feels it, as much as JG. He clearly absolutely loves the club. If we offered him a job in the canteen he'd probably take it. Top guy.
Always good entertainment for a quote too. I might have a search for one of his quotes on Gustavo Bartelt. That was funny.
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For all his flaws as a manager, he remains a Villa man to the core. Glad to hear he is on the road to recovery.
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It's one of those sliding doors moments, isn't it?
What if we had actually gone for it in the second half at Wembley.
What if we hadn't bulldozed the Trinity for an extra 4000 seats (that we've rarely filled).
Can't blame Gregory for the latter, but those events that occurred within a few weeks of each other in 2000 damaged the club in different ways.
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I always liked Gregory as well and I thought he did a decent enough job for us considering his lack of managerial experience.
Not sure about that team photo on the pitch after we beat Southampton at The Dell to go top though. Not one of his better ideas.
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I was never a fan, but fuck it, he's one of us and I can't be bothered opening old wounds.
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Always liked Johnny Grecian and always will. Flawed, but a top bloke.
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The 2000 final was a tragedy seeing that Chelsea were bloody awful too and a bit more adventurousness would have got them on the back foot.
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His biggest error was changing a winning team & brining his old favourites in for the cup final team. I loved him like Tim now for his almost maverick style, but that day - for whatever reason - he chose to play safe.
Fear of failure. He's quote said it all - the sight of 40,000 Villa fans and that they've got to come past these so make sure you don't lose. That fear probably came through to the players on the day. You imagine Sherwood would see it the other way, commenting on the crowd and then saying 'go win it for them'. Don't lose becomes go and win it - it sets the right mental attitude and instead of looking really nervous, they're then playing with freedom.
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It's one of those sliding doors moments, isn't it?
What if we had actually gone for it in the second half at Wembley.
What if we hadn't bulldozed the Trinity for an extra 4000 seats (that we've rarely filled).
Can't blame Gregory for the latter, but those events that occurred within a few weeks of each other in 2000 damaged the club in different ways.
in some ways similar to "what if Sir Graham hadn't taken the England job". That still kills me to think what might have been?
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Villa's "what might have been" is a massive thread in itself.
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Villa's "what might have been" is a massive thread in itself.
it would require a team of head doctors to moderate it otherwise there will be grown men crying uncontrollably and others threatening to jump off bridges throughout the thread.
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It's one of those sliding doors moments, isn't it?
What if we had actually gone for it in the second half at Wembley.
What if we hadn't bulldozed the Trinity for an extra 4000 seats (that we've rarely filled).
Can't blame Gregory for the latter, but those events that occurred within a few weeks of each other in 2000 damaged the club in different ways.
in some ways similar to "what if Sir Graham hadn't taken the England job". That still kills me to think what might have been?
My sliding doors moment was always Andy Lochhead's tame shot at Wembley in 1971.
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It's one of those sliding doors moments, isn't it?
What if we had actually gone for it in the second half at Wembley.
What if we hadn't bulldozed the Trinity for an extra 4000 seats (that we've rarely filled).
Can't blame Gregory for the latter, but those events that occurred within a few weeks of each other in 2000 damaged the club in different ways.
in some ways similar to "what if Sir Graham hadn't taken the England job". That still kills me to think what might have been?
My sliding doors moment was always Andy Lochhead's tame shot at Wembley in 1971.
Mine will always be the 0-0 against Coventry... Things could have been oh so different now!
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The 2000 final was a tragedy seeing that Chelsea were bloody awful too and a bit more adventurousness would have got them on the back foot.
I thought they were just better than us all round. And if you look at the likes of Deschamps, Weah, Desailly, Zola you can see why. They cranked it up in the second half and we were unable to do much about it. We were definitely too timid but they had some class players. An awful day.
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The 2000 final was a tragedy seeing that Chelsea were bloody awful too and a bit more adventurousness would have got them on the back foot.
I thought they were just better than us all round. And if you look at the likes of Deschamps, Weah, Desailly, Zola you can see why. They cranked it up in the second half and we were unable to do much about it. We were definitely too timid but they had some class players. An awful day.
You're right about some of the talent on their side but it was much more than that. We had very good players too, but we set up all week in training to stop them playing and not look at ways to take advantage of our strengths. It was all so negative, from the manager down and once the game was being played it was too late. The players didn't believe and it showed. That is what Gregory probably regrets the most. Is that he created a situation that didn't need to exist. In essence it's what Lambert became and couldn't break himself of.
I can take us losing this weekend. I just hate it when we set up not to win and play for a jammy goal, or something on the break and park the bus tactics. Arsenal are a really good side so we will need to both adventurous yet disciplined. Give them too much room and they will carve us up. But they are not unbeatable and their defence and goalkeeper aren't the best. And their manager's own insecurity can transmit to the team so we need to get into them and frustrate them. It should be a tremendous contest if we get our plans and importantly heads right this week.
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His biggest error was changing a winning team & brining his old favourites in for the cup final team. I loved him like Tim now for his almost maverick style, but that day - for whatever reason - he chose to play safe.
Fear of failure. He's quote said it all - the sight of 40,000 Villa fans and that they've got to come past these so make sure you don't lose. That fear probably came through to the players on the day. You imagine Sherwood would see it the other way, commenting on the crowd and then saying 'go win it for them'. Don't lose becomes go and win it - it sets the right mental attitude and instead of looking really nervous, they're then playing with freedom.
wat
You’ve got to come back past this lot and back into the dressing room. Make sure you win.
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It's one of those sliding doors moments, isn't it?
What if we had actually gone for it in the second half at Wembley.
What if we hadn't bulldozed the Trinity for an extra 4000 seats (that we've rarely filled).
Can't blame Gregory for the latter, but those events that occurred within a few weeks of each other in 2000 damaged the club in different ways.
in some ways similar to "what if Sir Graham hadn't taken the England job". That still kills me to think what might have been?
My sliding doors moment was always Andy Lochhead's tame shot at Wembley in 1971.
Mine will always be the 0-0 against Coventry... Things could have been oh so different now!
If sodding Phil sodding Dowd had sent off Vidic I'm near certain we'd have won the League Cup in 2010.
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It's one of those sliding doors moments, isn't it?
What if we had actually gone for it in the second half at Wembley.
What if we hadn't bulldozed the Trinity for an extra 4000 seats (that we've rarely filled).
Can't blame Gregory for the latter, but those events that occurred within a few weeks of each other in 2000 damaged the club in different ways.
in some ways similar to "what if Sir Graham hadn't taken the England job". That still kills me to think what might have been?
My sliding doors moment was always Andy Lochhead's tame shot at Wembley in 1971.
Mine will always be the 0-0 against Coventry... Things could have been oh so different now!
If sodding Phil sodding Dowd had sent off Vidic I'm near certain we'd have won the League Cup in 2010.
Yes but we would still have pube head as a manager. Just papering over the cracks with mostly bullshit signings.
In 93 we had a chance to really launchpad the club, but we missed out... big time.
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It's one of those sliding doors moments, isn't it?
What if we had actually gone for it in the second half at Wembley.
What if we hadn't bulldozed the Trinity for an extra 4000 seats (that we've rarely filled).
Can't blame Gregory for the latter, but those events that occurred within a few weeks of each other in 2000 damaged the club in different ways.
in some ways similar to "what if Sir Graham hadn't taken the England job". That still kills me to think what might have been?
My sliding doors moment was always Andy Lochhead's tame shot at Wembley in 1971.
Mine will always be the 0-0 against Coventry... Things could have been oh so different now!
A recent one is probably that Stoke game where we were miles ahead of Arsenal in the race for fourth and we blew it. Never got back in our stride and the season(s) subsequently petered out.
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It's one of those sliding doors moments, isn't it?
What if we had actually gone for it in the second half at Wembley.
What if we hadn't bulldozed the Trinity for an extra 4000 seats (that we've rarely filled).
Can't blame Gregory for the latter, but those events that occurred within a few weeks of each other in 2000 damaged the club in different ways.
in some ways similar to "what if Sir Graham hadn't taken the England job". That still kills me to think what might have been?
My sliding doors moment was always Andy Lochhead's tame shot at Wembley in 1971.
Mine will always be the 0-0 against Coventry... Things could have been oh so different now!
I'm with you on that one. I remember Leigh Jenkinson twatting about wasting time before taking a throw in before the end & getting as livid as I've ever got at any Villa match. Piss poor pro & instantly forgettable, but if I ever bumped into him...
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John G did his best but couldn't take the next step. Still love the bloke he's one of us. Always was always will be, hope he has a full recovery. Real football personality and as far as I'm concerned a proper Villan
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JG is live on Midlands Today this evening.
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It's one of those sliding doors moments, isn't it?
What if we had actually gone for it in the second half at Wembley.
What if we hadn't bulldozed the Trinity for an extra 4000 seats (that we've rarely filled).
Can't blame Gregory for the latter, but those events that occurred within a few weeks of each other in 2000 damaged the club in different ways.
in some ways similar to "what if Sir Graham hadn't taken the England job". That still kills me to think what might have been?
My sliding doors moment was always Andy Lochhead's tame shot at Wembley in 1971.
Mine will always be the 0-0 against Coventry... Things could have been oh so different now!
I'm with you on that one. I remember Leigh Jenkinson twatting about wasting time before taking a throw in before the end & getting as livid as I've ever got at any Villa match. Piss poor pro & instantly forgettable, but if I ever bumped into him...
Nothing smarts more than them Cov twats celebrating like they'd won the league when the Manure/Sheff Wednesday score came in. Horrible w@nkers
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It's one of those sliding doors moments, isn't it?
What if we had actually gone for it in the second half at Wembley.
What if we hadn't bulldozed the Trinity for an extra 4000 seats (that we've rarely filled).
Can't blame Gregory for the latter, but those events that occurred within a few weeks of each other in 2000 damaged the club in different ways.
in some ways similar to "what if Sir Graham hadn't taken the England job". That still kills me to think what might have been?
My sliding doors moment was always Andy Lochhead's tame shot at Wembley in 1971.
Mine will always be the 0-0 against Coventry... Things could have been oh so different now!
I'm with you on that one. I remember Leigh Jenkinson twatting about wasting time before taking a throw in before the end & getting as livid as I've ever got at any Villa match. Piss poor pro & instantly forgettable, but if I ever bumped into him...
You've reassured me that there was actually once a player called Leigh Jenkinson and I'm not going senile. I was beginning to think I'd imagined him.
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You've reassured me that there was actually once a player called Leigh Jenkinson and I'm not going senile. I was beginning to think I'd imagined him.
I remember him well playing for Hull. He was very quick indeed. There was some TV programme where they organised 100m sprint races for players in footy kit and boots, and I think he got to the final, maybe even won it.
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And Paul Merson's take on it
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/columnists/paul-merson/445104/Paul-Merson-Aston-Villa-Arsenal-leave-Wembley-regrets
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And Paul Merson's take on it
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/columnists/paul-merson/445104/Paul-Merson-Aston-Villa-Arsenal-leave-Wembley-regrets
Many of us felt like Merse after the Chelsea final. It was such a waste not to have a go especially with the eyes of the world on us as Wembley was about to go. I can't see Timbo playing it so cautiously.
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To give him his due, in a world of "he loves the club, he does" nonsense applied to anyone who is half decent and stays anywhere a reasonable amount of time, Gregory clearly does love the club.
It's why I love him. Still got my old programmes from around 1978 and one or two have him on the front.