Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: dave shelley on May 11, 2015, 09:08:50 PM
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Given the on-going love-in now that Steven Gerard has come to the end of his Liverpool career, it set me thinking about the players who have been given the title talisman. If you can divorce yourselves from the fact that he was a cheating, dirty fecker at times, he really was a talisman for them. He could rally the team (as he did in Istanbul), he could pop up with a match determining goal when it looked as though the game was going away from them. He could work a dodgy free-kick or penalty and, was the player his team-mates always seemed to look to for inspiration.
It made me think that, in all the years I've been following the Villa, I can't really recall us having any player that we could genuinely call a talisman in the sense that Gerard was for Liverpool. Manure had Bryan Robson as a talisman, and, dare I say it; Chelski have Terry *spit*. Supporters of clubs up and down the country will all be able to tell you of players they thought were talismen for their clubs but, I'm really finding it difficult to put my finger on anyone who could have been ours. I think Delph has the makings but needs to add more goals to his game. I always thought George Curtis was inspirational but, talisman? So I ask you, do/did we have a player who could be described thus? I ask you to offer suggestions of players you have seen and not, players from back in the day of Charlie Athersmith et al. And finally, does Gerard deserve to be remembered as a Liverpool Talisman?
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Gerrard has been the very opposite of a talisman the last couple of seasons!
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That's not the point though is it? Two seasons out of how many? I'm no Gerard lover, it's what he brings to his team and the fact that I can't recall us ever having anyone like that.
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I think the word 'talisman' could often be interchangeable with 'referee's mate'.
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I've clarified it a bit.
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That's not the point though is it? Two seasons out of how many? I'm no Gerard lover, it's what he brings to his team and the fact that I can't recall us ever having anyone like that.
No I understand the point you're making, I just think it's hilarious that in their best chance of the title for 20 odd years, it was his slip that started the rot.
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We've had scarce few players who have stayed long enough to be considered a talisman. Only gabby has been in the team long enough yet throughout his period - at best - he has been an understudy to other fan favourites: carew > Barry > Milner > Benteke have all stolen his thunder.
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Brian Little (as a player) was before my time - but he's revered, a one-club man, and a flair player - but was he talismanic?
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That's not the point though is it? Two seasons out of how many? I'm no Gerard lover, it's what he brings to his team and the fact that I can't recall us ever having anyone like that.
No I understand the point you're making, I just think it's hilarious that in their best chance of the title for 20 odd years, it was his slip that started the rot.
Without him they wouldn't have been challenging though.
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God? Took us within sniffing distance of two league titles and got us two league cups. Impeccable at the back, even when his legs were well gone. 7 years at the club and always excellent (player of the year in 93 too).
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Steve Staunton had 'talisman' potential - but he chose to walk away....
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McGrath certainly
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I think our glory years in my lifetime have been due to a superb team ethic, hence no stand out Talisman as such. Perhaps God in his time. Maybe Benteke will become it over the next 5 years as he spearheads us to glory?
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That's not the point though is it? Two seasons out of how many? I'm no Gerard lover, it's what he brings to his team and the fact that I can't recall us ever having anyone like that.
No I understand the point you're making, I just think it's hilarious that in their best chance of the title for 20 odd years, it was his slip that started the rot.
Without him they wouldn't have been challenging though.
Gerrard has been an unbelievable player for them, he has contributed so much to the club. For a start, he stayed there his entire career, dodging a much higher trophy count (including the league title, obv).
He's an absolute ****** of the highest order, I hate his face and his starfish diving as much as the next man, but you can't deny he has been one of the best players of the PL era, especially for Liverpool. Impressive for an Everton fan.
However, having said that, Risso is absolutely right. That's part of football - every fan of every single other team will have been absolutely pissing themselves laughing at that slip. It is moments like that that contribute almost as much to being a football supporter as watching your actual team does (esp for the likes of us in recent years).
The last year or two, esp this year (and our semi was a great example), they've allowed themselves to be overtaken by emotion and played him when he shouldn't have been anywhere near the team.
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That's not the point though is it? Two seasons out of how many? I'm no Gerard lover, it's what he brings to his team and the fact that I can't recall us ever having anyone like that.
No I understand the point you're making, I just think it's hilarious that in their best chance of the title for 20 odd years, it was his slip that started the rot.
Without him they wouldn't have been challenging though.
I'm not sure about that. 13 goals and 13 assists is impressive, but I'm pretty sure a majority of them came from penalties that Suarez won and from set-pieces. Beyond that, he spent all season being a laughable excuse for a defensive midfielder, as shown by how the worst midfield we've had in many years managed to stroll past him time and time again in that draw at Anfield until Lucas showed him how to do his job properly.
Great player in his time and I agree about the talisman thing, but I was really confident that we'd win the semi the moment I saw his name on the teamsheet.
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Gabby is the man for me. He never goes missing in big games and more often than not he delivers when the pressure is on. True, he doesn't have that voice or media presence but he's 100% synonymous with Villa.
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"He could pop up with a match determining goal when it looked as though the game was going away from them.
He could work a dodgy free-kick or penalty and, was the player his team-mates always seemed to look to for inspiration."
Dwight Yorke, Paul Merson, Ashley Young.
I don't think you could call any of them a talisman in the same way Gerrard was for Liverpool, but they certainly fulfilled some of that criteria in their time here.
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The first person that sprang to mind from all of my time watching Villa was Peter Withe. As for this team it would have to be Benteke for me. The MON teams had a few candidates like Mellberg, Laursen, Barry, Milner, Young, Gabby and Carew. Under Gregory it was probably Merson. Before that, under Little it was Yorke. BFR had McGrath, Teale, Richardson (who was vastly under rated in my opinion) and Saunders. Under SGT it would have been Platt along with Cowans and McGrath. As well as Withe the early eighties side had Evans and Mortimer. I think the best sides have more than one. I would say the great Liverpool side of the early eighties had Souness and Dalglish. Chelsea have had Terry, Lampard and Drogba in the same great team. Earlier Arsenal teams had Adams and later they had Henry. Blackburn had Shearer. The old stand out talisman in a very good side was Cantona. Gerrard, to be fair has looked the best player in good sides and still looked good in lesser sides, both for club and country.
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What about Delph or Grealish?
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It's Sid for me. Over 400 appearances, more than 50 goals, spells as academy coaach, first team coach and assistant manager.
One of the best players to ever wear the shirt, probably the best I've seen.
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I know what he means, when I played every now and then you would end up in a team with such a player.
Even though it looked felt like we were going to lose, he is the player that says No I am not having it and drives the rest on the team on through deeds. They are pretty rare but I did see Mortimer as that player I felt that it was him that the rest of the team looked to.
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Wiflred Bouma would have been a talisman if he'd stayed longer. Then there's Mellberg and Laursen?
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Villa have tended to be team oriented and rarely seem to have stand-out individual players who can be described as talismanic. Platt, McGrath and Yorke were top class players but either didn't stay around long enough or were not really the central hub or driving force of the team like say Shearer was at Newcastle. Even the early 80s team didn't really have one stand out personality. Benteke is the closest we have at the moment.
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Carew, Barry, Young, Yorke, Merson, Grealish soon if not already, maybe? McGrath, Laursen, Mellberg, Platt. I think we've had more than our fair share of talismanic players, though they maybe weren't always here for long, for whatever reason.
Also Ian Taylor. For me, all of these have had that ability to raise themselves to get Villa going.
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Carew, Barry, Young, Yorke, Merson, Grealish soon if not already, maybe? McGrath, Laursen, Mellberg, Platt. I think we've had more than our fair share of talismanic players, though they maybe weren't always here for long, for whatever reason.
Also Ian Taylor. For me, all of these have had that ability to raise themselves to get Villa going.
Surprised it took that long for Taylor to get a mention, he's the perfect choice for the title for me.