Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: aj2k77 on May 04, 2015, 08:56:16 AM
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Despite our decent run we are on we are still making lots of sloppy errors at the back and conceding a hell of a lot of goals. We've now conceded 180 goals in our last 111 games.
The general consensus is we have some decent defenders. Guzan, Vlaar, Okore, Clark, Hutton, Bacuna, all are getting good reviews but the goals are still flowing in.
So where are the improvements to be made and who will get dropped?
Vlaar I don't think has ever been the dominant centre back that we've needed, so I'd like to see us sign a big, dominant, vocal centre back this summer whether Vlaar stays or goes. Obviously the left back situation needs addressing Richardson is not good enough.
Would that be enough to see an immediate improvement?
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I think you sum it up when you say we make sloppy errors at the back. An argument can be made for all of our defenders in respect of them being good players, but as individuals and as a unit they have looked dodgy more often than not. Despite being underwhelmed when we signed him, Senderos looked good and Vlaar seemed happier alongside him. For me Vlaar would not be a massive loss and Baker and Clark should be squad cover as opposed to regulars. I wouldn't write off Cissokho, and the second coming of Hutton has been a plus but I don't rate Bacuna as a defender. I rate Okore. I think in the summer we need a right back, a left back, a centre half and a striker. So the bottom line is, I think we need to strengthen three out of four of our defensive positions.
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I think it's a combination of our new attacking approach and an ever changing back four. How many variations have we played this year due to injuries and suspension? At any one point we've lost our first choice from each position and that doesn't help a defence gel. If we can sort that, we'd have the makings of a very good side.
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That's the thing villa_cads, we have been chopping and changing all season have been unable to put out a settled back 4 - especially at centre-half. A few games of being together then one player invariably gets injured. Senderos, then Vlaar, then Baker, then Vlaar again, then Clark, then Baker again. Funnily enough the only one to have not got injured is Okore, who had mysteriously disappeared for the first part of the season following injury. The defensive cover is better than under Lambert but we need games together to get a good understanding between the players.
I think in between looking composed Vlaar has also looked nervy and off the game a little - not surprising given how long he's been out. Okore still makes blunders and needs more games next to Vlaar. If we had 10-15 games left I think we'd be fine. As it is Richardson has developed better recently but is not our long term solution to the left-back question that has seemingly set us back every season. I think next season we definitely need a new goalkeeper, left-back, and maybe experienced centre-half. The divisikn we're in will, obviously, be crucial but if Vlaar is fit he'd be worth keeping but we can't keep relying on him and then him breaking down.
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Chopping and changing doesn't help. Constant injuries. Even with Vlaar getting a run now, how long can he sustain it? Can he last another four games before the month is out? Not just in terms of avoiding injury, but after so many, can his legs take it? Okore has had a long hard season too. He's needed that, but he could run out of steam. But the injuries throughout this season in the middle have really seen us struggle to settle on a consistent pairing. Clark and Okore were getting that, but Clarks injury was desperately unfortunate.
At fullback we've had injuries and problems. Bacuna has probably done enough to see out the season as first choice, but his place in the side in that position was a case of needs must. As it happens he has adapted quite well. He's suspect defensively, but at the same time he has improved a fair bit in the department too. What he gives us going forward has been very positive though, but you take the good with the bad when it comes to attack minded fullbacks.
Left back has been the worst area as we've got no one really decent in that position. Right now Rico is filling a gap, but I don't think hes going to be an option there next season if we get the signings we need and avoid injuries. Cissokho is poor on the ball and okay defensively. He's worth keeping around as a back up and given our attacking prowess further forward we don't have to put much onus on him being attacking and creating.
In the goalkeeping positions I honestly think we'll be fine. We'd be lucky to find someone as good as Guzan without spending big. He's had a rough patch but he'll come back fine. Given is good as back up for his final year. If we need a new third option ahead of Steer, then so be it. But for me, if our budget is limited I'd leave the keeper position as it is and just have Brad work on his kicking, whilst also getting our defence to do him a favour in games and not give him pressurized back passes.
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Everton were the latest team to target Richardson. Nothing against the bloke, but I don't get the same feeling of dread when a winger is bearing down on Bacuna or Hutton.
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Everton were the latest team to target Richardson. Nothing against the bloke, but I don't get the same feeling of dread when a winger is bearing down on Bacuna or Hutton.
Leandro has actually handled some pretty good players and kept them quiet in recent games. He did so against Spurs with all their expensive attacking mids, and he gave Sterling almost no change for Liverpool.
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We were poor in defence as we got no Vikings like Mellberg or Laursen or warriors like Allan Evans, Shaun Teale or Ugo Ehiogu. We need to look at why our defenders are too soft with injuries and lack of clean sheet. From our line up I would keep Hutton and Clark and overhaul the rest.
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We were poor in defence as we got no Vikings like Mellberg or Laursen or warriors like Allan Evans, Shaun Teale or Ugo Ehiogu. We need to look at why our defenders are too soft with injuries and lack of clean sheet. From our line up I would keep Hutton and Clark and overhaul the rest.
Jores is worth keeping I think. And I think if we sort out the left side with someone solid we can afford to have Bacuna on the right (or Hutton in depending on opposition).
We definitely do need a really reliable new first choice though. Someone who isn't injury prone. Lets face it we bought Vlaar and Senderos, both of whom had a history of problems.
If we can get 10-15 games out of Senderos next season then we can keep him on to see out his contract (as I don't see offers forthcoming).
As well as Baker has done for us, I just wonder if now is the time to cash in. A promoted club might fancy taking him.
I would actually also consider selling Hutton. He's been very good this season and one of the few bright spots for Lamberts section. But he's got 2 years left of a deal and is 31 in November. While his stock is up I would cash in. But that's only if we've got quality lined up to replace him.
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How available has Cissokho been since Sherwood took over? Looks like he's played just once (if you don't count Leicester), but I don't know how much time he's spent being injured. I thought he'd be someone who might have been re-energised by Sherwood's arrival - he certainly was solid for a couple of months before dropping off like everyone else.
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How available has Cissokho been since Sherwood took over? Looks like he's played just once (if you don't count Leicester), but I don't know how much time he's spent being injured. I thought he'd be someone who might have been re-energised by Sherwood's arrival - he certainly was solid for a couple of months before dropping off like everyone else.
Like everyone he needs his chance to impress the new man, and there's the potential for improvement. We shall see. But an incoming left back this summer is still high on the priorities.
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How available has Cissokho been since Sherwood took over? Looks like he's played just once (if you don't count Leicester), but I don't know how much time he's spent being injured. I thought he'd be someone who might have been re-energised by Sherwood's arrival - he certainly was solid for a couple of months before dropping off like everyone else.
Like everyone he needs his chance to impress the new man, and there's the potential for improvement. We shall see. But an incoming left back this summer is still high on the priorities.
Just for a change, like.
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Personally I'd build the defence around Clark & Baker with okore as back up.
Hutton is fine but cissoko is back up for me .
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Personally I'd build the defence around Clark & Baker with okore as back up.
Hutton is fine but cissoko is back up for me .
I don't think Clark and Baker is a good combination - both left-sided/left-footed; neither has a lot of pace - I think the combos that work are Okore/Clark or Vlaar/Baker. Okore/Baker might also work, but I can't remember seeing them together for a full game.
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I think Vlaar is as good as gone, and I can't say I'm that bothered about it. He's decent, but that's it, and given his injury record I'm sure we could get 'decent' without the absence record.
I think Okore looks like he has the potential to be a excellent player, so I'd definitely keep him, and it would be between he and Clark for who gets the starting place alongside our new, experienced (but not past it!) centre-back. Baker has improved to the point where I don't worry about him being in the side if needed, and Senderos I would let go.
At full-back, if Hutton can keep up the form that got his new contract then I reckon we're alright there, with Bacuna a relatively sound alternative (although I still think he's a bit crap defensively). On the left I think Cissokho is probably fine, but he's hopeless going forward, whereby Richardson I think needs to be replaced, so along with a new centre-back I'd be after a new left-back too, with Cissokho kept as back-up.
After that, I think it's a case of hoping for an injury-free run for everyone and letting a clear first-choice defence settle in.
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Hutton Vlaar Senderos Cissokho is my back four. Although you lose some Bacuna attacking intent it is solid. Need them all fit though, match fit. Baker should be loaned out to develop, let him make his mistakes for another club then you have Clark who is versitle and Okore as back up.
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We've lost balance with Clark being out and quickly followed by Baker. Okore and Vlaar both prefer the right side and Vlaar hasn't looked as comfortable playing on the left. Couple that with Richardson and Bacuna being less than stellar defensively, Okore still learning and Guzan not being at his best it has led to some very poor goals being conceded.
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How many times have we conceded late into a half since Sherwood took over too? That can probably only be put down to a lack of concentration from them all.
Clark and Okore would be first choice centre pairing as they could form a partnership for years. Bacuna can get better defensively (though he's already decent) and is far too beneficial to our attacking play to not use (4 assists when he's started already). Left back we might need a new signing there.
As far as cover goes, Hutton, either Richardson or Bennett and Baker/Senderos. If Vlaar goes, we might need another due to injury track records. We might need a signing there unless there's someone coming through the ranks.
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Honestly, I'm pretty sure I need to let some air out of the balloon, because right now, I'm so confident in Sherwood's apparent ability to invigorate players that I expect Joe Bennett to come out of preseason possessing the best attributes of Ashley Cole and Roberto Carlos, thus solving our LB problem.
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The reason why we concede so many goals is that we lack experience defending. We have two attack minded players at fullback, midfield players that fail to track opposition players running into the box and forwards that do not know how to mark at set pieces. We constantly have too many players going for the same ball (see Vlaar's penalty on Saturday or the goals against Liverpool as examples). There needs to be a lot of defensive coaching in the summer.
As others have said, not having a settled central defensive partnership has not helped. Also not having an aggressive (not dirty) player in the middle of the defence has allowed us to get dominated at set-plays. More than anything else though, we lack experience in defence.
With the way Sherwood looks to want to play, I think we need two good fullbacks that can defend and also are good going forward. They will not come cheap though. As well as Hutton did in the first half of the season, I am not convinced with him being good enough going forward.
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How many times have we conceded late into a half since Sherwood took over too? That can probably only be put down to a lack of concentration from them all.
Clark and Okore would be first choice centre pairing as they could form a partnership for years. Bacuna can get better defensively (though he's already decent) and is far too beneficial to our attacking play to not use (4 assists when he's started already). Left back we might need a new signing there.
As far as cover goes, Hutton, either Richardson or Bennett and Baker/Senderos. If Vlaar goes, we might need another due to injury track records. We might need a signing there unless there's someone coming through the ranks.
We've lost the most points in the last 10 minutes this season so far, 10.
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When I look at how Sherwood sets up it is really a case of having to give something to get something. Unless we have full backs in the very top bracket who are essentially outstanding two way players, to be so aggressive will leave gaps. Couple of that in with all of the other uncertainties in our defence plus injuries it's no wonder we aren't as tight as we might otherwise be.
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25/26/27 year old, injury free, dependable, calm, Viking central defender needed. Beard a bonus.
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I read somewhere recently, that if QPR go down,Sherwood will be in for Steven Caulker ,who he jnows well from his Spurs day. He has been around a bit,but has looked a solid sort of defender wheni have seen him play
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I think caulker has looked awful for the last two years tho he was good at Spurs
I wonder how highly he rates okore. It's hard to plan for our defence because they keep getting injured, suggesting we will still need five centre backs. But that means one or two don't get on the bench when everyone is fit.
All of the tactical stuff about ful backs bombing on is true. But you'd still expect better defending from vlaar of late. Two daft penalties given away.
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I think that Vlaar's the weak link. If Senderos is fully fit, I'd prefer to see him alongside Okore.
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I think that Vlaar's the weak link. If Senderos is fully fit, I'd prefer to see him alongside Okore.
Vlaar goes up through the gears for the important games but in the day to day league matches he is too often fallible.
Also I think that Sherwood doesn't rate Okore highly but I could be wrong.
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The main weakness defensively is with the full backs, so much so that I'd prefer to keep with Bacuna and Richardson as they do at least offer something going forward. I dont rate either Hutton or Cissoko - they're both clumsy and make too many mistakes. Lowton and Bennett are proven over 2+ seasons to simply not be good enough.
As for the central defenders a few recent goals (Liverpool at Wembley, penalty on Saturday) have been down to indecision and not putting the ball into Row Z when they had the chance. Maybe that's down to not fully knowing or trusting your partner. That said all of them are good enough to play in an upper mid table side and on that basis your down to contract and injury issues as to whether you'd keep them or not.
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Think it is an issue to be sorted in the long term, at the moment because we are so much better attacking wise and doing enough to win matches then its no big issue, but yeah it does need working on over the summer.
We need a more settled back four. I like Vlaar but he just hasn't done it consistently. Think I would still have him in the squad, but then I don't know if he would be happy playing second fiddle so it might be time to move him on. Based on this season I would have Okore and Clark as the long term pairing. Think Bacua over time could stamp his mark on the full back spot, but I think we need something a bit different than Hutton he is too static for my liking.
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I think that Vlaar's the weak link. If Senderos is fully fit, I'd prefer to see him alongside Okore.
I don't think it would be that much different. Look at Vlaar vs Spurs, playing on the right side of the pairing with Clark or Baker and he looked imperious. Look at him on the left and he isn't remotely as comfortable.
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Left-back is still the absolute priority though surely. Cissoko just hasn't looked good enough, although as per the tongue-in-cheek Joe Bennett comments above I would like to see if Sherwood can make him a much better player than he was under Lambert. Rico is ok as backup but that's about it.
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Cissokho isn't a bad defender but he's not going to offer anything going forward which I think Sherwood will insist on from his full backs. I'd like to see Bacuna develop into that role but Richardson certainly needs to be upgraded.
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To be fair to Cissoko though, he's had little or no forward passing options when he's played. Coming back now he'll have give and go options and he'll no doubt look twice the player, like everyone else.
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As good as Hutton has been defensively this season, I still think his crossing let's him down badly. I kind of wish we could have a hybrid Hutton-Bacuna, then you would have the perfect right-back.
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To be fair to Cissoko though, he's had little or no forward passing options when he's played. Coming back now he'll have give and go options and he'll no doubt look twice the player, like everyone else.
yep true and maybe all he has to do is be a protector of that side of that pitch with Delph/Grealish running that side offensively. Certainly interested to see also how Bennett looks. Hell, even our Enda might have looked twice the player.
Ok...that might have been pushing it!
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To be fair to Cissoko though, he's had little or no forward passing options when he's played. Coming back now he'll have give and go options and he'll no doubt look twice the player, like everyone else.
Good call Lee. His main issue is his crossing (for which I remember reading a statistic suggesting it was worse than any other player in the league this season). If he is told to get forward when he can but not to do much more than pass to Grealish or Delph then I can't see why he can't be a useful asset.
It's not like Richardson's attacking prowess in the last few games has been anything to write home about so we're not really going to be losing anything.
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Personally I'd build the defence around Clark & Baker with okore as back up.
Hutton is fine but cissoko is back up for me .
I'd go with Clark and Okore, as they're a much more balanced combination. You have pace, power and class with those two.
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Personally I'd build the defence around Clark & Baker with okore as back up.
Hutton is fine but cissoko is back up for me .
I'd go with Clark and Okore, as they're a much more balanced combination. You have pace, power and class with those two.
And you avoid having one of two very left footed defenders playing on the right.
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To be fair to Cissoko though, he's had little or no forward passing options when he's played. Coming back now he'll have give and go options and he'll no doubt look twice the player, like everyone else.
Good call Lee. His main issue is his crossing (for which I remember reading a statistic suggesting it was worse than any other player in the league this season). If he is told to get forward when he can but not to do much more than pass to Grealish or Delph then I can't see why he can't be a useful asset.
It's not like Richardson's attacking prowess in the last few games has been anything to write home about so we're not really going to be losing anything.
When he wast at liverpool and he had plenty of passing opportunities. the biggest criticism Liverpool fans had of him was that he could defend but was pretty useless on the ball. I don't think his game under Lambert was affected to the point that he would suddenly improve exponentially under Sherwood.
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Just enjoy the attacking!
When was the last time we attacked teams regularly? Brian Little? Big Ron?
So long as we score one more than them, it don't really matter!