Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: adrenachrome on February 21, 2015, 12:38:11 AM
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Mirror (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/aston-villa-owner-randy-lerner-5200722)
Aston Villa owner Randy Lerner should slash asking price to save club, insists former boss Graham Taylor
The ex-England manager says the club is a 'rudderless ship' and it may be too late to save them from relegation after a dismal season
Former Aston Villa boss Graham Taylor says billionaire owner Randy Lerner has to put up or sell up if the club is to be saved from relegation.
Lerner has appointed Tim Sherwood, his fifth manager in nine years, but Taylor thinks it might be too late.
The former England boss rebuilt Villa the last time they were relegated 28 years ago, getting the club promoted in his first season and then turning them into title contenders.
But after five years of constant struggle they are again in the Premier League’s bottom three and without a league win for 10 games.
Sherwood watched Villa’s FA Cup win over Leicester and takes his first game as boss at home to Stoke tomorrow.
But although Lerner flew in for his first face-to-face meeting with his new manager on Tuesday he hasn’t stayed around to support him in his first game.
“Aston Villa is a rudderless ship,” said Taylor, who also had a second spell as manager and served on the board. “It is all over the shop.
“When Randy Lerner took over I was impressed. I thought he was going to show me that these billionaires could come in and successfully run the show.
“I thought Villa had done well and there was a plan. He has put a lot of his own money into Villa, but I began to be disturbed when people like Steve Stride, the best football club secretary I have ever worked with, left.
“At that point I thought something had gone wrong. Changes have been made that have not been for the good of the club.”
Lerner, 52, bought Villa for £64million and has added over £100m to the bill since but runs things via internet and phone from his home in New York and rarely goes to games.
The Villa owner put the club up for sale in May saying: ”I owe it to Villa to move on, and look for fresh, invigorated leadership, if in my heart I feel I can no longer do the job.”
He was looking to break even, but would now take £150m – with Taylor encouraging him to slash even that price for the good of the club.
“They are nice people at Villa, but they are not football people,” said Taylor whose family home is only a few miles from Villa Park.
“You have non-football people making the appointments. Do they understand what they are doing?’
Lerner’s right hand man is chief executive Tom Fox whose background is in business after five years as Arsenal’s chief commercial officer.
Doug Ellis, who is 91, sold the club to Lerner and Taylor said: “I worked for Doug Ellis and whatever one says about him, he cannot be described as a non-football person. You cannot run a football club by phone from the other side of the Atlantic and that is what Lerner is trying to do.
“I don’t know who is on Aston Villa’s board, how it’s run, no one does.
“All I can ask is that things are sorted out quickly. You’ve brought somebody in, but it might be too late Mr Lerner.”
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Mirror (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/aston-villa-owner-randy-lerner-5200722)
Aston Villa owner Randy Lerner should slash asking price to save club, insists former boss Graham Taylor
The ex-England manager says the club is a 'rudderless ship' and it may be too late to save them from relegation after a dismal season
Former Aston Villa boss Graham Taylor says billionaire owner Randy Lerner has to put up or sell up if the club is to be saved from relegation.
Lerner has appointed Tim Sherwood, his fifth manager in nine years, but Taylor thinks it might be too late.
The former England boss rebuilt Villa the last time they were relegated 28 years ago, getting the club promoted in his first season and then turning them into title contenders.
But after five years of constant struggle they are again in the Premier League’s bottom three and without a league win for 10 games.
Sherwood watched Villa’s FA Cup win over Leicester and takes his first game as boss at home to Stoke tomorrow.
But although Lerner flew in for his first face-to-face meeting with his new manager on Tuesday he hasn’t stayed around to support him in his first game.
“Aston Villa is a rudderless ship,” said Taylor, who also had a second spell as manager and served on the board. “It is all over the shop.
“When Randy Lerner took over I was impressed. I thought he was going to show me that these billionaires could come in and successfully run the show.
“I thought Villa had done well and there was a plan. He has put a lot of his own money into Villa, but I began to be disturbed when people like Steve Stride, the best football club secretary I have ever worked with, left.
“At that point I thought something had gone wrong. Changes have been made that have not been for the good of the club.”
Lerner, 52, bought Villa for £64million and has added over £100m to the bill since but runs things via internet and phone from his home in New York and rarely goes to games.
The Villa owner put the club up for sale in May saying: ”I owe it to Villa to move on, and look for fresh, invigorated leadership, if in my heart I feel I can no longer do the job.”
He was looking to break even, but would now take £150m – with Taylor encouraging him to slash even that price for the good of the club.
“They are nice people at Villa, but they are not football people,” said Taylor whose family home is only a few miles from Villa Park.
“You have non-football people making the appointments. Do they understand what they are doing?’
Lerner’s right hand man is chief executive Tom Fox whose background is in business after five years as Arsenal’s chief commercial officer.
Doug Ellis, who is 91, sold the club to Lerner and Taylor said: “I worked for Doug Ellis and whatever one says about him, he cannot be described as a non-football person. You cannot run a football club by phone from the other side of the Atlantic and that is what Lerner is trying to do.
“I don’t know who is on Aston Villa’s board, how it’s run, no one does.
“All I can ask is that things are sorted out quickly. You’ve brought somebody in, but it might be too late Mr Lerner.”
Interesting read. His last point I agree with. But he does not know the ins and outs of Learners dealings so can't know for sure that his price has been too high. Clearly Learner just wants out at this point so I can't see him being too fussy about price.
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Lerner.
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Lerner.
Yeah that was really worth wasting a post on.... I should misspell something on purpose just to get you to waste another one.
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I love the man but I wish he could have held his fire a while. There is a bit of a feel good factor around the club this week and Lerner reducing price would do nothing between now and the end of the season anyway. Lerner has acted on management, I think its better for everyone to rally around the flag the next few months.
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Easy to ask someone to slash the price when it's not your tens of millions your suggesting should be written off. And by slashing the price you encourage the likes of Yeung, the chicken farmers etc to sniff around.
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You could argue should we stay up, the price should be going up in light of the new PL deal. A mid table finish will net well north of £120m per annum
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I love the man but I wish he could have held his fire a while. There is a bit of a feel good factor around the club this week and Lerner reducing price would do nothing between now and the end of the season anyway. Lerner has acted on management, I think its better for everyone to rally around the flag the next few months.
I agree. A rare lapse in judgement and timing from the great man.
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You could argue should we stay up, the price should be going up in light of the new PL deal. A mid table finish will net well north of £120m per annum
Not sure a mid-table finish is going to happen this season. You never know given how tight things are and if Sherwood hits the ground running, but I think we are in the dog fight all the way now. But you are right with the new money involved it should attract a few more people.
Don't quite get this feel good factor from supporters. I am reliefed that Lambert has gone and the Cup at least is looking like it might offer something, but we have taken a big gamble with the new manager, and may well still go down. I am reserving judgement, but still don't see too much to be cheery about...
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I love the man but I wish he could have held his fire a while. There is a bit of a feel good factor around the club this week and Lerner reducing price would do nothing between now and the end of the season anyway. Lerner has acted on management, I think its better for everyone to rally around the flag the next few months.
I agree. A rare lapse in judgement and timing from the great man.
Agreed, he should have held fire to see how Sherwood does in the next few games. Perhaps someone at B6 has upset GT
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I'm not on about mid table this season, we will do well to finish 17th
I'm on about when the new deal kicks in 2017
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Lerner.
There is quite a good argument for calling calling him 'Learner' as regards his time running the club.
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I love the man but I wish he could have held his fire a while. There is a bit of a feel good factor around the club this week and Lerner reducing price would do nothing between now and the end of the season anyway. Lerner has acted on management, I think its better for everyone to rally around the flag the next few months.
I agree. A rare lapse in judgement and timing from the great man.
Agreed, he should have held fire to see how Sherwood does in the next few games. Perhaps someone at B6 has upset GT
They have.
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The most telling point GT makes is that the people running the club are non-football people. Madness to get rid of Steve Stride.
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The most telling point GT makes is that the people running the club are non-football people. Madness to get rid of Steve Stride.
I thought he stayed until 2007 and then resigned?
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“When Randy Lerner took over I was impressed. I thought he was going to show me that these billionaires could come in and successfully run the show.
“I thought Villa had done well and there was a plan. He has put a lot of his own money into Villa, but I began to be disturbed when people like Steve Stride, the best football club secretary I have ever worked with, left.
“At that point I thought something had gone wrong. Changes have been made that have not been for the good of the club.”
Stride left about a month after Lerner left. So according to GT, things have been going wrong since 2006. Even Randolph's harshest critics on here would cut him some slack up until at least 2010.
New broom, wanting to bring in their own people. Not that unusual really, is it?
Also, at the time, I seem to recall that it was Stride who decided he wanted to quit anyway. So unless Krulak put him under house arrest, I don't see how he could have been coerced into staying.
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“When Randy Lerner took over I was impressed. I thought he was going to show me that these billionaires could come in and successfully run the show.
“I thought Villa had done well and there was a plan. He has put a lot of his own money into Villa, but I began to be disturbed when people like Steve Stride, the best football club secretary I have ever worked with, left.
“At that point I thought something had gone wrong. Changes have been made that have not been for the good of the club.”
Stride left about a month after Lerner left. So according to GT, things have been going wrong since 2006. Even Randolph's harshest critics on here would cut him some slack up until at least 2010.
New broom, wanting to bring in their own people. Not that unusual really, is it?
Also, at the time, I seem to recall that it was Stride who decided he wanted to quit anyway. So unless Krulak put him under house arrest, I don't see how he could have been coerced into staying.
He left a year later, which is when he said he wanted to go. They may not have made as much effort to keep him as they could have, and they definitely missed him from then on, but he's gone and now he's been out of football for almost a decade.
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Steve Stride left through choice, under his own terms and when he wanted to.
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Easy to ask someone to slash the price when it's not your tens of millions your suggesting should be written off. And by slashing the price you encourage the likes of Yeung, the chicken farmers etc to sniff around.
A better way to encourage investment (and the right kind) would be to stabilise the club and getting it heading in the right direction on and off the pitch to make it attractive again. Between Fair Play and 4 straight seasons where there's been a very real possibility of relegation would put anyone off.
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I'll say it again: There are no football people at board level. GT would be ideal.
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Reading between the lines it looks as though Sir Graham isn't that impressed with the appointment of Tim Sherwood - or at the very least the amount of time he's been given to save us from the drop.
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I'll say it again: There are no football people at board level. GT would be ideal.
I agree with the first point but not the second. He's retired and in his seventies; club ambassador yes, but not anything day to day.
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Why don't randy from a business point of view sell a controlling stake.
Someone buys that stake we stay up and his remaining say 25% is worth considerbly more.
Then sell his remaining stake
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Why don't randy from a business point of view sell a controlling stake.
Someone buys that stake we stay up and his remaining say 25% is worth considerbly more.
Then sell his remaining stake
No buyers at any price I would imagine. The Hull owner openly said he will give away the club and yet he can't. At least 3 other clubs are widely known to be up for sale. No buyers.
Why would you? The FFP racket means it is now next to impossible to invest in a team to challenge for the top spots. That means any buyer is getting a club that it is impossible to grow beyond mid table because the FFP fix is in place. Thats a rather unattractive option for someone wanting to buy a club to win things.
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The most telling point GT makes is that the people running the club are non-football people. Madness to get rid of Steve Stride.
I thought he stayed until 2007 and then resigned?
I think you are right. Graham Taylor was upset that Mr Lerner didn't seem interested in his views.
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I've no doubt that Steve Stride was an extremely good football administrator, but not having him isn't what's caused the mess of the last few years, and I doubt he'd have survived very long with Martin O'Neill in charge in any case.
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No buyers at any price I would imagine. The Hull owner openly said he will give away the club and yet he can't.
He has said that, but he's very much from the Ellis school of saying things that make him look newsworthy that he doesn't mean.
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I've no doubt that Steve Stride was an extremely good football administrator, but not having him isn't what's caused the mess of the last few years, and I doubt he'd have survived very long with Martin O'Neill in charge in any case.
I'm not sure because one of Steve's many talents was knowing when to keep quiet.
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Steve Stride was a proper Villa man and he ensured things were kept in house
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I've no doubt that Steve Stride was an extremely good football administrator, but not having him isn't what's caused the mess of the last few years, and I doubt he'd have survived very long with Martin O'Neill in charge in any case.
I'm not sure because one of Steve's many talents was knowing when to keep quiet.
Which is another sign of a good admin person, but not one who makes any strategic difference.
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I've no doubt that Steve Stride was an extremely good football administrator, but not having him isn't what's caused the mess of the last few years, and I doubt he'd have survived very long with Martin O'Neill in charge in any case.
I'm not sure because one of Steve's many talents was knowing when to keep quiet.
Which is another sign of a good admin person, but not one who makes any strategic difference.
He knows. or rather knew, everyone in football. I think he was frustrated that the new board wouldn't listen to his caution; whether they might have paid more attention as time went on is a moot point but he would have certainly been able to work with O'Neill.
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Didn't Randy have to drop the price of the Brown's for a sell?
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Why don't randy from a business point of view sell a controlling stake.
Someone buys that stake we stay up and his remaining say 25% is worth considerbly more.
Then sell his remaining stake
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Didn't Randy have to drop the price of the Brown's for a sell?
He got a billion dollars.
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I love the man but I wish he could have held his fire a while. There is a bit of a feel good factor around the club this week and Lerner reducing price would do nothing between now and the end of the season anyway. Lerner has acted on management, I think its better for everyone to rally around the flag the next few months.
I agree. A rare lapse in judgement and timing from the great man.
Agreed, he should have held fire to see how Sherwood does in the next few games. Perhaps someone at B6 has upset GT
They have.
What upset him?
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Mirror (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/aston-villa-owner-randy-lerner-5200722)
Aston Villa owner Randy Lerner should slash asking price to save club, insists former boss Graham Taylor
The ex-England manager says the club is a 'rudderless ship' and it may be too late to save them from relegation after a dismal season
Former Aston Villa boss Graham Taylor says billionaire owner Randy Lerner has to put up or sell up if the club is to be saved from relegation.
Lerner has appointed Tim Sherwood, his fifth manager in nine years, but Taylor thinks it might be too late.
The former England boss rebuilt Villa the last time they were relegated 28 years ago, getting the club promoted in his first season and then turning them into title contenders.
But after five years of constant struggle they are again in the Premier League’s bottom three and without a league win for 10 games.
Sherwood watched Villa’s FA Cup win over Leicester and takes his first game as boss at home to Stoke tomorrow.
But although Lerner flew in for his first face-to-face meeting with his new manager on Tuesday he hasn’t stayed around to support him in his first game.
“Aston Villa is a rudderless ship,” said Taylor, who also had a second spell as manager and served on the board. “It is all over the shop.
“When Randy Lerner took over I was impressed. I thought he was going to show me that these billionaires could come in and successfully run the show.
“I thought Villa had done well and there was a plan. He has put a lot of his own money into Villa, but I began to be disturbed when people like Steve Stride, the best football club secretary I have ever worked with, left.
“At that point I thought something had gone wrong. Changes have been made that have not been for the good of the club.”
Lerner, 52, bought Villa for £64million and has added over £100m to the bill since but runs things via internet and phone from his home in New York and rarely goes to games.
The Villa owner put the club up for sale in May saying: ”I owe it to Villa to move on, and look for fresh, invigorated leadership, if in my heart I feel I can no longer do the job.”
He was looking to break even, but would now take £150m – with Taylor encouraging him to slash even that price for the good of the club.
“They are nice people at Villa, but they are not football people,” said Taylor whose family home is only a few miles from Villa Park.
“You have non-football people making the appointments. Do they understand what they are doing?’
Lerner’s right hand man is chief executive Tom Fox whose background is in business after five years as Arsenal’s chief commercial officer.
Doug Ellis, who is 91, sold the club to Lerner and Taylor said: “I worked for Doug Ellis and whatever one says about him, he cannot be described as a non-football person. You cannot run a football club by phone from the other side of the Atlantic and that is what Lerner is trying to do.
“I don’t know who is on Aston Villa’s board, how it’s run, no one does.
“All I can ask is that things are sorted out quickly. You’ve brought somebody in, but it might be too late Mr Lerner.”
I do respect Graham Taylor a lot, But we live in an age where technology means you don't have to be somewhere 24/7 to know what is going on every second of everyday. It's not like the old days where if you were in the USA all you had to connect you to the UK was a phone. These days anyone of us can rig up cameras in our home here in the UK and view the footage on our phones whilst holidaying in Australia, so I'd imagine Randy Lerner has a lot more sophisticated systems.
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The problem is that this is largely irrelevant to our immediate situation. Clearly Lerner needs to sell or have a complete change of opinion and understanding of the game. But if we were sold to great owners tomorrow it probably wouldn't help much. We need the staff in place now to save us.
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I love the man but I wish he could have held his fire a while. There is a bit of a feel good factor around the club this week and Lerner reducing price would do nothing between now and the end of the season anyway. Lerner has acted on management, I think its better for everyone to rally around the flag the next few months.
I agree. A rare lapse in judgement and timing from the great man.
Agreed, he should have held fire to see how Sherwood does in the next few games. Perhaps someone at B6 has upset GT
They have.
What upset him?
It was said a couple of years ago that when we were looking for a new manager (post-O'Neill I believe) a meeting was arranged between Sir Graham and the directors only to be cancelled after he'd been kept hanging around for ages.
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Whatever has happened, no excuse for the players under performing yet again.
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I imagine the now incontrovertible story that we bid for Ricky Lambert on the last day of the transfer window may have caused Sir Graham to raise an eyebrow. Probably gave it the full Roger Moore.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MOzVsiLbq6k/UHRyPPXabqI/AAAAAAAAAIg/im2aZwGkcZw/s1600/Roger-Moore.png)
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Yes, it is all Randy Lerners fault, no it isnt IMO. I think Houllier would have really sorted the club out, a really good manager and then he became ill. Mcleish, awful appointment, was never going to work and felt sorry for a real nice bloke. Paul Lambert was a bloke we all wanted, I really dont know what wnt wrong. He had been at clubs like Celtic and Dortmund, why would he feel Aston Villa was a smaller club? The players have to show some balls and they have not done that at all.
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Yes, it is all Randy Lerners fault, no it isnt IMO. I think Houllier would have really sorted the club out, a really good manager and then he became ill. Mcleish, awful appointment, was never going to work and felt sorry for a real nice bloke. Paul Lambert was a bloke we all wanted, I really dont know what wnt wrong. He had been at clubs like Celtic and Dortmund, why would he feel Aston Villa was a smaller club? The players have to show some balls and they have not done that at all.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MOzVsiLbq6k/UHRyPPXabqI/AAAAAAAAAIg/im2aZwGkcZw/s1600/Roger-Moore.png)
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Mirror (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/aston-villa-owner-randy-lerner-5200722)
Aston Villa owner Randy Lerner should slash asking price to save club, insists former boss Graham Taylor
The ex-England manager says the club is a 'rudderless ship' and it may be too late to save them from relegation after a dismal season
Former Aston Villa boss Graham Taylor says billionaire owner Randy Lerner has to put up or sell up if the club is to be saved from relegation.
Lerner has appointed Tim Sherwood, his fifth manager in nine years, but Taylor thinks it might be too late.
The former England boss rebuilt Villa the last time they were relegated 28 years ago, getting the club promoted in his first season and then turning them into title contenders.
But after five years of constant struggle they are again in the Premier League’s bottom three and without a league win for 10 games.
Sherwood watched Villa’s FA Cup win over Leicester and takes his first game as boss at home to Stoke tomorrow.
But although Lerner flew in for his first face-to-face meeting with his new manager on Tuesday he hasn’t stayed around to support him in his first game.
“Aston Villa is a rudderless ship,” said Taylor, who also had a second spell as manager and served on the board. “It is all over the shop.
“When Randy Lerner took over I was impressed. I thought he was going to show me that these billionaires could come in and successfully run the show.
“I thought Villa had done well and there was a plan. He has put a lot of his own money into Villa, but I began to be disturbed when people like Steve Stride, the best football club secretary I have ever worked with, left.
“At that point I thought something had gone wrong. Changes have been made that have not been for the good of the club.”
Lerner, 52, bought Villa for £64million and has added over £100m to the bill since but runs things via internet and phone from his home in New York and rarely goes to games.
The Villa owner put the club up for sale in May saying: ”I owe it to Villa to move on, and look for fresh, invigorated leadership, if in my heart I feel I can no longer do the job.”
He was looking to break even, but would now take £150m – with Taylor encouraging him to slash even that price for the good of the club.
“They are nice people at Villa, but they are not football people,” said Taylor whose family home is only a few miles from Villa Park.
“You have non-football people making the appointments. Do they understand what they are doing?’
Lerner’s right hand man is chief executive Tom Fox whose background is in business after five years as Arsenal’s chief commercial officer.
Doug Ellis, who is 91, sold the club to Lerner and Taylor said: “I worked for Doug Ellis and whatever one says about him, he cannot be described as a non-football person. You cannot run a football club by phone from the other side of the Atlantic and that is what Lerner is trying to do.
“I don’t know who is on Aston Villa’s board, how it’s run, no one does.
“All I can ask is that things are sorted out quickly. You’ve brought somebody in, but it might be too late Mr Lerner.”
I do respect Graham Taylor a lot, But we live in an age where technology means you don't have to be somewhere 24/7 to know what is going on every second of everyday. It's not like the old days where if you were in the USA all you had to connect you to the UK was a phone. These days anyone of us can rig up cameras in our home here in the UK and view the footage on our phones whilst holidaying in Australia, so I'd imagine Randy Lerner has a lot more sophisticated systems.
An absent owner will only work when he has an excellent and experienced team running the business on a day to day basis. The problem is we didn't / haven't with Faulkner or Fox
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It is not as simple as dropping the price, making it more attractive for individuals to subsequently make a quick profit is no answer.
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It is not as simple as dropping the price, making it more attractive for individuals to subsequently make a quick profit is no answer.
Agreed a bargain price just opens it out to a whole new world of shysters
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I am afraid Randy is stuck with us and even worse we are stuck with him!
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Exactly, and with Lerners judgement the dumb fuck would probably sell us to Ray Ranson.
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Agreed dropping the price might let the club open to a world of shysters but they would have to pass a fit and proper test like the Leeds owner didn't.
Also with the mess we are in and does it really matter if your an American shyster or a Thai or Russian one.
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I don't often pick holes in anything SGT says, but wasn't Elton John a 'non football person' who ran the club from the end of the phone most of the time? Although, admittedly I can't recall the exact structure at Watford and who else was in senior positions.
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I don't often pick holes in anything SGT says, but wasn't Elton John a 'non football person' who ran the club from the end of the phone most of the time? Although, admittedly I can't recall the exact structure at Watford and who else was in senior positions.
It was a different world back then - Sir Graham probably did the lot.
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I don't often pick holes in anything SGT says, but wasn't Elton John a 'non football person' who ran the club from the end of the phone most of the time? Although, admittedly I can't recall the exact structure at Watford and who else was in senior positions.
No he used to be there ,saw him on the pitch one Villa game,all suited up with a hat on and a very long purple pony tail,got stick off the Villa fans but he was there a lot more than Lerner is,mind you Lord Lucan is as likely to be at Villa Park these days.
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I don't often pick holes in anything SGT says, but wasn't Elton John a 'non football person' who ran the club from the end of the phone most of the time? Although, admittedly I can't recall the exact structure at Watford and who else was in senior positions.
No he used to be there ,saw him on the pitch one Villa game,all suited up with a hat on and a very long purple pony tail,got stick off the Villa fans but he was there a lot more than Lerner is,mind you Lord Lucan is as likely to be at Villa Park these days.
Again, it's a different world. I'm not bothered where the owner is provided the people running the club know what they're doing but it seems that again we've made an overnight change, this time going from community-focused to corporate.
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I don't often pick holes in anything SGT says, but wasn't Elton John a 'non football person' who ran the club from the end of the phone most of the time? Although, admittedly I can't recall the exact structure at Watford and who else was in senior positions.
No he used to be there ,saw him on the pitch one Villa game,all suited up with a hat on and a very long purple pony tail,got stick off the Villa fans but he was there a lot more than Lerner is,mind you Lord Lucan is as likely to be at Villa Park these days.
Again, it's a different world. I'm not bothered where the owner is provided the people running the club know what they're doing but it seems that again we've made an overnight change, this time going from community-focused to corporate.
I agree. That's ultimately the flaw in Sir Graham's argument about Lerner. There are plenty of owners who aren't at the game very often (Lewis, Mansoor, Henry etc). But they have competent people day to day to make good decisions. Maybe that is the structure they are talking about and trying to build now, but not having any kind of structure to talk of over the past number of years has really hurt the club.
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The structure is a big worry, if we go down, we do not seem equipped to bounce back, nor do we have anyone who knows what to do.
Sherwood is certainly way down the list to dig you out of the Champ.
The likelihood is that Lerner will just draw in his horns again, and we end up like the Venkys and Blackburn
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Re: SGT's time at Watford under Elton John, wasn't Bertie Mee there upstairs in some capacity?
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Re: SGT's time at Watford under Elton John, wasn't Lambert Mee there upstairs in some capacity?
Your right. I'm not sure if he was officially classed as a general manager but he was certainly around to advise.
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Re: SGT's time at Watford under Elton John, wasn't Lambert Mee there upstairs in some capacity?
The word filter strikes again.
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Lerner will probably sell us to the Batti brothers ! He,s f---ed everything else up.
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Before the experts start i know that,s not how you spell Bhatti
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You could also learn the difference between a comma and an apostrophe.
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thanks genius,can i have a lesson.
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I doubt you'd be able to understand.
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Tell me Risso,is that short for arse hole?
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Tell me Risso,is that short for arse hole?
Any time you want to get banned, just say the word.
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Tell me Risso,is that short for arse hole?
35 posts, going to struggle to add another 30.
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I remember when some fans said Steve Stride was just a puppet for Doug and did as he was told.
The lack of success on the pitch has meant fans are looking at the club and how it is run. Winning team and nobody cares.
The only thing I find hard to understand is why the club asked to speak to Sir Graham and then left him hanging around and then cancelled. No way to treat a very experienced manager who still thinks of his previous employers as "us".
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Do it Dave! I wanted to discuss the Villa not,puntuation marks.,:;?
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Posted elsewhere..TODAY...
The Secret Footballers tweets that Lerner has agreed to sell us to the American Phoenix Group.
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Posted elsewhere..TODAY...
The Secret Footballers tweets that Lerner has agreed to sell us to the American Phoenix Group.
Hope they do a better job than they did at Longbridge.
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Posted elsewhere..TODAY...
The Secret Footballers tweets that Lerner has agreed to sell us to the American Phoenix Group.
Huh. Just seen that - it's the 'real' Secret Footballer's account as well. Followed by all the journos and everything.
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I remember when some fans said Steve Stride was just a puppet for Doug and did as he was told.
That rings a bell.
I remember attending a Literary Lions evening in north London in 2001. One of the authors / speakers was telling me that the Villa directors (presumably including Steve Stride) were like meek mice when Doug was around and for some reason was contrasting them with the Sunderland board, who he reckoned were all friendly, outgoing chappies.
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Posted elsewhere..TODAY...
The Secret Footballers tweets that Lerner has agreed to sell us to the American Phoenix Group.
Huh. Just seen that - it's the 'real' Secret Footballer's account as well. Followed by all the journos and everything.
How is he likely to be privy to that information?
If Dave Kitson or Nicky Shorey or whoever it is supposed to be is telling us what being involved in a transfer is really like or what difference a new manager has on squad morale then that's worth listening to.
But I'm assuming that he doesn't have Lerner or Fox on speed-dial for the latest on the Villa takeover.
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Well reading his book, it's surprising how well connected Dave Kitson (for it is Dave Kitson) is. Not that he is definitely right about this, but he's got no particular reason to risk his reputation on this unless he really thinks it's true.
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Posted elsewhere..TODAY...
The Secret Footballers tweets that Lerner has agreed to sell us to the American Phoenix Group.
Huh. Just seen that - it's the 'real' Secret Footballer's account as well. Followed by all the journos and everything.
How is he likely to be privy to that information?
If Dave Kitson or Nicky Shorey or whoever it is supposed to be is telling us what being involved in a transfer is really like or what difference a new manager has on squad morale then that's worth listening to.
But I'm assuming that he doesn't have Lerner or Fox on speed-dial for the latest on the Villa takeover.
Clutching at straws, but a few footballers have gone into the world of corporate finance after their careers finished (eg Ramon Vega) so it's a teensy bit possible that somebody might have got a snippet and passed it on. 99.9999999999% likely to be not the case though.
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Posted elsewhere..TODAY...
The Secret Footballers tweets that Lerner has agreed to sell us to the American Phoenix Group.
Hope they do a better job than they did at Longbridge.
That was UK (in fact Longbridge and Cowley) based Phoenix Venture Holdings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Venture_Holdings).
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Posted elsewhere..TODAY...
The Secret Footballers tweets that Lerner has agreed to sell us to the American Phoenix Group.
Hope they do a better job than they did at Longbridge.
That was UK (in fact Longbridge and Cowley) based Phoenix Venture Holdings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Venture_Holdings).
I thought Longbridge and Cowley was a short lived sequal to The Professionals.
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Posted elsewhere..TODAY...
The Secret Footballers tweets that Lerner has agreed to sell us to the American Phoenix Group.
Hope they do a better job than they did at Longbridge.
That was UK (in fact Longbridge and Cowley) based Phoenix Venture Holdings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Venture_Holdings).
I thought Longbridge and Cowley was a short lived sequal to The Professionals.
Martin Shaw was born in Erdington but isn't a Villa fan. Supported Everton when we played them and he was working on stage in a Bill Kendrick production.
Fracking thespian.
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Saw this earlier and have had "Welcome to the Phoenix Club" followed by the theme tune going around my head all day
All hail Brian Potter
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Martin Shaw went to school with my aunt. In Sutton Coldfield I think.
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Went to Phoenix Nights Live a couple of weeks ago, loved it. Be great if Ray Von could get on the decks before the games to whip up an atmosphere!
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Jo Enright from Phoenix Nights is a Villa fan.
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Posted elsewhere..TODAY...
The Secret Footballers tweets that Lerner has agreed to sell us to the American Phoenix Group.
Huh. Just seen that - it's the 'real' Secret Footballer's account as well. Followed by all the journos and everything.
How is he likely to be privy to that information?
If Dave Kitson or Nicky Shorey or whoever it is supposed to be is telling us what being involved in a transfer is really like or what difference a new manager has on squad morale then that's worth listening to.
But I'm assuming that he doesn't have Lerner or Fox on speed-dial for the latest on the Villa takeover.
Clutching at straws, but a few footballers have gone into the world of corporate finance after their careers finished (eg Ramon Vega) so it's a teensy bit possible that somebody might have got a snippet and passed it on. 99.9999999999% likely to be not the case though.
As Monty says, in his book there are references to him attempting to carve out a post retirement niche for himself as being the football face heading a corporate takeover of a club so it's not as simple to dismiss it as an ex pro making out he has his finger on the pulse, there may be some substance in it.
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Jo Enright from Phoenix Nights is a Villa fan.
She is also St Edmund Campion alumni like Villa legends Gabby Agbonlahor, Mark Burke and me.
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Saw this earlier and have had "Welcome to the Phoenix Club" followed by the theme tune going around my head all day
All hail Brian Potter
Well if we become the Phoenix club I am keeping my grandson away from any Potter devised family fun days
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The only thing I find hard to understand is why the club asked to speak to Sir Graham and then left him hanging around and then cancelled. No way to treat a very experienced manager who still thinks of his previous employers as "us".
Well, Mr Fear fell foul of the same treatment by our Mr Fox in recent times, so, y'know, happens to the best of 'em.
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At this moment in time, our club will be hard to sell. It's not certain where we'll be next season.
I bet, if we get relegated a hoard of investors will come to light as we'll be at some £millions lower than we would be as a solid Prem League outfit.
Lerner Jnr is not as cute as the late Lerner Snr -indeed the latter would probably not have bought us in the first place !
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Jo Enright from Phoenix Nights is a Villa fan.
Didn't know that. Love her even more now then. She's in the best ever PN episode (S1, Ep4). Rose for the lady? "F off"
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Indykalia on Twitter - Exclusive: We understand Aston Villa are in talks with investors to buy club. Meetings taking place today & tomorrow. #AVFC
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Indykalia on Twitter - Exclusive: We understand Aston Villa are in talks with investors to buy club. Meetings taking place today & tomorrow. #AVFC
That bloke/woman/child/prisoner really needs to either get a job or have their internet connection cut off.
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Jo Enright from Phoenix Nights is a Villa fan.
She is also St Edmund Campion alumni like Villa legends Gabby Agbonlahor, Mark Burke and me.
I told Jo Enright a joke once which made her laugh. She's sound is Jo.
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-sale-150m-massive-5224048
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FUBAR.
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-sale-150m-massive-5224048
Similar stories last year. :(
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Martin Shaw went to school with my aunt. In Sutton Coldfield I think.
Martin Shaw and myself have something in commom, we were both taught by a teacher named Tom Knowles (Drama and French) Shaw is two or three years younger than me so maybe Tom Knowles moved shools, i went to Great Barr Comprehensive.
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I think Martin Shaw attended Riland Bedford school in Sutton Colfield. It is now called Plantsbrook.
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As the previous poster declared - Great Barr Comprehensive was the education corner stone of Mr Shaw, as it was for Steve Winwood
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-sale-150m-massive-5224048
Similar stories last year. :(
Yeah I thought the same thing myself.
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I cant see it elsewhere but SGT was featured on Jeremy Vine's R2 What makes us Human slot this afternoon, as ever he was fantastic, if anyone is interested you can listen again here.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02kszvb
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caught some of that and he was very listenable
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Nice opinion piece here (http://www.football365.com/profile365/9776344/F365-Says). Mainly focusing on Watford, but thought it might be of interest:
Graham Taylor: An Unfairly Tainted Reputation
In a game of Graham Taylor word association, the word 'turnip' will come up pretty quickly. That unfairly dismisses a lovely man, and brilliant manager...
Here's a piece of free advice; don't become England manager. Granted, that little piece of sage wisdom will not apply to most of you, but it's worth keeping in mind in case something improbable happens, or if you are a professional football manager. You might think you can do a decent job, but it will almost certainly not be decent enough.
For the England gig makes monkeys of the best men. Or, shall we say, it makes perceived monkeys of the best men. Bobby Robson was so sick of the way he was treated in the press that he binned it off before Italia 90, a successful tournament that, if Bobby wasn't such a lovely bloke, you would think was just one colossal 'f**k you' to the men from the papers. Steve McClaren became defined by an entirely sensible item of weather protection, Sven Goran Eriksson by Little Sven and Glenn Hoddle by some reprehensible views about karma and so forth. Even Fabio Capello, iron man of European football, couldn't be arsed by the whole thing in the end. It is, as the old documentary said, an impossible job.
The subject of said documentary is probably the worst example of the whole thing. Graham Taylor was, as you'll remember, reduced to a root vegetable on the front of the Sun after some admittedly abysmal showings in the World Cup qualifiers, his reaction to which was unfortunately captured on film for future generations to laugh at..
And, in fairness, watching a man who resembled a minor local councillor sidle up to a linesman to say "Tell your pal he's just cost me my job" was, on some levels, quite funny. The problem is that this sort of thing has a habit of taking over the common image of person, to throw their previous achievements onto a bonfire like it's some sort of schadenfreudean rewriting of history and become the predominant perception of them.
Because Taylor was, before being gobbled up by the dignity mincer that was and still is the England job, a seriously brilliant manager. His gig before being called to Lancaster Gate (ask your parents) was with Aston Villa, who he took from the Second Division to damn near winning the league in three seasons. But it is his time at Watford that should really define the man.
Taylor took over at Vicarage Road in 1977 when the Hornets were in the Fourth Division, having turned down top flight West Brom basically because they were rude in the manner they approached him. He told Elton John, who had recently become chairman of his boyhood club, that if he could get them to the First Division within ten years, that would represent success. He managed it in five.
And, once there, they implausibly finished second in their first season, only behind Bob Paisley's Liverpool, irritating all and sundry along the way with their rather direct style of play. The following years saw them reach the third round of the UEFA Cup, make the FA Cup final in 1984 and the semi-final a couple of years later.
Taylor found a club in a mess, who had been bottom of the entire Football League in the season before he arrived, had no training ground and had to share billing with a greyhound track that encircled the pitch, which he promptly got rid of. "It's either the dogs or me," he told John. In a decade he took them to Wembley, Europe and close to the league title, finally leaving them ninth in the top flight, some 66 places higher than when he arrived. You'll not find many people in Watford whose primary memory of Taylor is "Do I not like that."
As well as all this though, Taylor just seems like a lovely bloke. In Lionel Birnie's wonderful book 'Enjoy The Game', about Watford in the 1980s, there are countless stories that paint a picture of a kind, generous and generally just a sensationally pleasant human being.
One that stands out is the time the club's clapped-out Fiat Panda, used by the scouts to travel the country, finally gave in because someone forgot to put oil in the engine. Taylor called a staff meeting, at which the four scouts assumed they would be given a bill for the repair of the car, so they pre-emptively decided to split the £1,000 cost. They were handed four envelopes, but instead of invoices they contained plane tickets and reservations for a swanky hotel in Portugal. "This is just a thank you from the club for all your work," said Taylor. "Take a break, take your wives, and enjoy yourselves." Taylor even offered to look after their children for the week while they went away.
And there are so many more. After one rather chastening defeat, Taylor trained his players hard with double sessions for three days, before arriving to the training ground on the Thursday. "I was talking to Rita (his wife) last night," he told his team, "and she thought perhaps I was being a bit hard on you and I agreed. So, get yourselves changed into your tracksuits and meet me at the hotel for a Champagne breakfast on me." He threw in some jugs of lager to lighten the mood, too.
On another occasion, instead of a pre-season training session he took his players for a walk with their dogs before a pub lunch. When Watford sold Luther Blissett to AC Milan (a deal which involved a bloke who owned a local Italian restaurant as a go-between) for a then-hefty £1million in 1983, Taylor hugged the forward who'd been with him from the start and tears were shed. Paul Atkinson, a midfielder signed from Oldham, chose Watford over Nottingham Forest partly because Taylor knew all about his game and spent a long time explaining how he'd fit into his side, whereas Brian Clough gave him a drink and said Forest were "going to the Reeperbahn on our pre-season trip. You're not a poof lad, are you?"
We could go on, with any number of stories about his managerial skills and simple good eggery. But for now, before England play and we watch the latest poor whelp flail in the pitiless seas of the national job, just enjoy these, and remember that Taylor wasn't a punchline, and he certainly wasn't a turnip.
Nick Miller
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A fantastic read. He really should have something named after him down Villa Park. The job he did is sometimes forgotten.
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He reminds me of Vic Crowe in that regard.
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Brian Clough gave him a drink and said Forest were "going to the Reeperbahn on our pre-season trip. You're not a poof, lad, are you?"
No doubt his failure to manage Justin Fashanu wasn't something he cared to try and repeat. The mad old bigot.
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It might be heresy in some corners, but I couldn't stand Brian Clough. The sozzled old homophobe.
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I honestly think he's the greatest British manager, ever.
I don't care that others won more, look what he did with an absolute nothing club like Nottingham Forest back then.
Having said that, as a person, he probably did leave a lot to be desired.
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I wish GT still had a role at VP.
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I honestly think he's the greatest British manager, ever.
I don't care that others won more, look what he did with an absolute nothing club like Nottingham Forest back then.
Having said that, as a person, he probably did leave a lot to be desired.
Agreed, with the addition of what he did at Derby as well.
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Mr Shaw went to Great Barr Comp I believe and supported the Villa
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Some of my favourite times watching Villa under Taylor first time around. Who knows what might have happened had England not come calling. I think we might have won the league if he had turned england down. Don't blame him at all though for taking on the challenge.
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I honestly think he's the greatest British manager, ever.
I don't care that others won more, look what he did with an absolute nothing club like Nottingham Forest back then.
Having said that, as a person, he probably did leave a lot to be desired.
Look at what Ferguson did with a nothing club like Man U!
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Certainly the greatest English manager. A few Scots have some good claims.
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I honestly think he's the greatest British manager, ever.
I don't care that others won more, look what he did with an absolute nothing club like Nottingham Forest back then.
Having said that, as a person, he probably did leave a lot to be desired.
Look at what Ferguson did with a nothing club like Man U!
Ferguson was brilliant no doubt but he did have the added luck and advantage of probably the best group of kids to come thorugh any youth system at the same time together. Any manager would have had success with those players at their disposal. Given Man U's size, the money then flooding into the game, their success it would have been harder for Ferguson to fail.
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I'd vote for Herbert Chapman. Quite apart from the Huddersfield achievements, until he got there Arsenal had won precisely nothing.
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Clough is no doubt outstanding, but I'd put Ferguson above him. Not like Man U were dominating everything when he came in and he took over the finished product, like maybe Pep at Bayern. He came in, and in real terms, not very long corrected things and started winning. Not only did he win things but it was his ability to constantly reinvent the side through various players, styles and systems. Yes, he is at Man U and that affords him immense resources but he took advantage of those resources. The most impressive thing for me wasn't winning the league with great players it's that he also won at a canter with pretty average ones too. It's also the culture he created which we all saw and everyone despised. The culture of intimidation and fear which many great teams or managers have had. That they can find ways to influence the game or officials, be it during or game or in the days before or after. They were a big team before but they are what they are today because of him. And taking it running with it isn't as easy as it looks when you consider they money spent by Moyes and LVG since.
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Great manager, Clough, but he was corrupt - he was the original "brown envelope in a motorway service station" and transfer backhander merchant. Crook. And Ronnie Fenton
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I honestly think he's the greatest British manager, ever.
I don't care that others won more, look what he did with an absolute nothing club like Nottingham Forest back then.
Having said that, as a person, he probably did leave a lot to be desired.
Agreed, with the addition of what he did at Derby as well.
And I think everyone enjoyed his time at Leeds too.
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I honestly think he's the greatest British manager, ever.
I don't care that others won more, look what he did with an absolute nothing club like Nottingham Forest back then.
Having said that, as a person, he probably did leave a lot to be desired.
Look at what Ferguson did with a nothing club like Man U!
Ferguson was brilliant no doubt but he did have the added luck and advantage of probably the best group of kids to come thorugh any youth system at the same time together. Any manager would have had success with those players at their disposal. Given Man U's size, the money then flooding into the game, their success it would have been harder for Ferguson to fail.
he also won the Scottish league with Aberdeen and beat Real Madrid in a European final with them
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And Ferguson also had every possible assistance from every outside source. I'm not one for conspiracy theories but I do truly believe that outside influences played a part in 1992-93.
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What Clough did at provincial clubs like Forest and Derby was an amazing achievement.
What Don Revie did at Leeds was no small achievement either. The '92 title is the only thing they've win without him as manager, '96 is the only cup final they've been to without him. Before he arrived, Leeds were less successful than small heath. One FA Cup QF and one top 7 finish (5th).
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And Ferguson also had every possible assistance from every outside source. I'm not one for conspiracy theories but I do truly believe that outside influences played a part in 1992-93.
What sort of outside influences? The Cantona signing?
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The media were willing Manure to win it. I have a sneaky feeling that Sky, the FA etc also preferred them to win the inaugural title than Villa. Much more marketable.
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And Ferguson also had every possible assistance from every outside source. I'm not one for conspiracy theories but I do truly believe that outside influences played a part in 1992-93.
What sort of outside influences? The Cantona signing?
Things like our games kicking off 15 minutes before theirs and with a referee who supported them. Newspapers with the headline 'CHAMPIONS' before they were. Mysterious seven minute stoppage times. Those sort of things.
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The media were willing Manure to win it. I have a sneaky feeling that Sky, the FA etc also preferred them to win the inaugural title than Villa. Much more marketable.
Looking back, this was the most relevant factor.
We all know that Villa are a huge club with a great following, however they must have been shitting themselves at $KY when the marketable premiership was nearly won in its inaugural season by unfashionable Aston Villa. How would Murdoch have got the return on investment from the far east contingent then!!
For me the inability to move by Worthington in that Manure - Wednesday game with the inexplicable amount of added time will always raise my blood pressure.
Particularly as we were playing Coventry on the same day who took delight when Manure won their match and we managed a 0-0 draw with them.
Feck em
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I'll always remember those Cov twats celebrating like they'd won the league at full time because they'd got a 0-0. Small time twats. It was still 1-0 at Manure when I left VP. It wasn't until we'd walked back to a mate's whose student place was near the Bartons that I knew they'd won. That day still royally fucks me off.
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I'll always remember those Cov twats celebrating like they'd won the league at full time because they'd got a 0-0. Small time twats. It was still 1-0 at Manure when I left VP. It wasn't until we'd walked back to a mate's whose student place was near the Bartons that I knew they'd won. That day still royally fucks me off.
Me too, oh how different it all could have been.
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I'll always remember those Cov twats celebrating like they'd won the league at full time because they'd got a 0-0. Small time twats. It was still 1-0 at Manure when I left VP. It wasn't until we'd walked back to a mate's whose student place was near the Bartons that I knew they'd won. That day still royally fucks me off.
Me too, oh how different it all could have been.
It should have been a lot different. The league was ours to lose... and boy did we lose it. The 10 point margin in no way reflected that season at all.
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That day for ever I will never forget even watching motd when that Scottish twat and was it Brian Kidd on his knees when they scored the winner.
I seen us go down to the 3rd and Spurs beat us at Wembley and other games to numerous to mention.
But those manc twats just seemed to have everything loaded in there favour
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And Ferguson also had every possible assistance from every outside source. I'm not one for conspiracy theories but I do truly believe that outside influences played a part in 1992-93.
What sort of outside influences? The Cantona signing?
Things like our games kicking off 15 minutes before theirs and with a referee who supported them. Newspapers with the headline 'CHAMPIONS' before they were. Mysterious seven minute stoppage times. Those sort of things.
this
in 50 years time when they release the official secret act papers for the world to see this will be revealed
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We had our chances; Cov, Blackburn, Norwich, Oldham, we didn't take them and it still stings to this day.
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Abloke with a thousand pound in his pocket, has got more chance of winning a £100 than a bloke with a £100 doubling his money.
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The title was there for the taking. We fooked it up and Utd took advantage.
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We had our chances; Cov, Blackburn, Norwich, Oldham, we didn't take them and it still stings to this day.
Aye. They had a reputation for bottling it, and if we have pushed them a bit harder, I reckon they would have wobbled again.
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Sheff Weds game was the turning point. If that 7 minutes doesn't appear they'd have been 1 win in 6. Instead that was 2 wins in a row and they rattled off 5 more to end the season with 7 straight wins. Bastards.
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And Ferguson also had every possible assistance from every outside source. I'm not one for conspiracy theories but I do truly believe that outside influences played a part in 1992-93.
care to elaborate?
Sorry- I now see you have already
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We had our chances; Cov, Blackburn, Norwich, Oldham, we didn't take them and it still stings to this day.
It hurts to admit it but on the final lap they went up to fifth gear and we dropped down to third gear. I would suggest that any team in a close two horse title race in any given season who wins their last seven games will win their league. As for the Sheffield Wednesday game at Old Trafford, as much as it rankles I am sure someone did some research a while back and the time added on was not only justified but should actually have been a little bit longer. I can;t remember now where I read that.
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We had our chances; Cov, Blackburn, Norwich, Oldham, we didn't take them and it still stings to this day.
It hurts to admit it but on the final lap they went up to fifth gear and we dropped down to third gear. I would suggest that any team in a close two horse title race in any given season who wins their last seven games will win their league. As for the Sheffield Wednesday game at Old Trafford, as much as it rankles I am sure someone did some research a while back and the time added on was not only justified but should actually have been a little bit longer. I can;t remember now where I read that.
the Norwich loss was gutting. Sunday evening game I think wasn't it? It's funny how little things stick in your mind. Think I was getting a lift with a mate back to London and noticed the M1 road signs with Houghton-Regis and Olney and thinking maybe it's not going to happen for us
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We lost to Norwich away aswell I recall 0-1 which was a midweek game. Had an overnight stay there.
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We crumbled in the run in and they didn't. As much as we'd like there to be a conspiracy theory there wasn't.
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We lost to Norwich away aswell I recall 0-1 which was a midweek game. Had an overnight stay there.
A game we should have won. Parker missed a sitter if I remember rightly.