Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Villa Memories => Topic started by: dave.woodhall on February 08, 2015, 02:02:51 PM
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Was it better?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-30699020
The best bit is at the end.
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An interesting article, Dave, and good to see you being quoted at the end. Your second quote is very true. Living in Handsworth Wood I used to regularly see Tony Brown and, later, Cyrille Regis.
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Was football better in the "old days"? If you're 16 and your team have just won the League Championship ten years after being in the third tier, of course it was.
If you're freezing on some crumbling terrace, having been marched there by the local constabulary for your own protection, watching Norton, Kerr, Ormsby et al going through the motions, no it wasn't.
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Was football better in the "old days"? If you're 16 and your team have just won the League Championship ten years after being in the third tier, of course it was.
If you're freezing on some crumbling terrace, having been marched there by the local constabulary for your own protection, watching Norton, Kerr, Ormsby et al going through the motions, no it wasn't.
You look at some of the crowds in the mid-eighties and marvel at how low they are. Then you remember what we had to put up with and you marvel that they were so high.
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I well remember watching football in the 70s and being told by older relatives that "football's not what it used to be". Comments about it being played by "girls"with long hair like George Best or our own Chico Hamilton and Willie Anderson, earning far too much money!
Dave's right in that we all basically want to have our youth back.
There's lots I miss about football from back then, particularly the atmosphere. It's hard to explain to younger fans what real atmosphere is - that buzz around the ground in the build up to kick off, or when an attack or pressure builds. Singing or chanting can contribute or even spoil an atmosphere but fans nowadays think it is atmosphere.
It would be stupid to suggest that modern comfortable family friendly grounds are in any way a negative compared to back then, but losing that real buzz is a side-affect of it all.
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Its the lack of competitiveness I really miss.
In the 70's a good manager with a keen eye for a player could bulld a squad from nothing and win the league. Derby, Forest etc. Teams did dominate, like leeds but they didnt win everything. There was a wide mix of teams winning the trophies.
I also think that football was more entertaining but maybe my memory just concentrates on the great teams we had in the 70's and early 80's
Football also seemed more exciting because there was less to see and beey little on TV. Going to a game was a real treat
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Asa Hartford is mentioned in 'players living round the corner'. He lived in my aunts road in Lichfield at one point. Noel Cantwell lived next door to my mum and dad's friends who we used to visit in Coventry. John Deehan lived with his parents a few minutes away from me and my parents. I remember being impressed with his TR7. I can remember watching that Leicester v Shrewsbury cup tie with the different keepers in 1982 on MOTD or Star Soccer. Around that time I also remember Star Soccer making a big fuss of the Stoke keeper Peter Fox being sent off in the early days of the professional foul rule. And an Everton v Liverpool game around the same time that was shown live and Glen Keeley on loan from Blackburn got sent off early for a professional foul. I think it ended 0-5 and was the only time he pulled on an Everton shirt.
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I well remember watching football in the 70s and being told by older relatives that "football's not what it used to be". Comments about it being played by "girls"with long hair like George Best or our own Chico Hamilton and Willie Anderson, earning far too much money!
Dave's right in that we all basically want to have our youth back.
There's lots I miss about football from back then, particularly the atmosphere. It's hard to explain to younger fans what real atmosphere is - that buzz around the ground in the build up to kick off, or when an attack or pressure builds. Singing or chanting can contribute or even spoil an atmosphere but fans nowadays think it is atmosphere.
It would be stupid to suggest that modern comfortable family friendly grounds are in any way a negative compared to back then, but losing that real buzz is a side-affect of it all.
I think you've hit on something there. Back in t'old days you could tell what was happening with your eyes closed. There was an enveloping background noise that rose and fell with the action. I was at the Newcastle match earlier this season. I closed my eyes for a moment and got nothing. That said, nothing happened in that match and I was in the Doug Ellis.
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I well remember watching football in the 70s and being told by older relatives that "football's not what it used to be". Comments about it being played by "girls"with long hair like George Best or our own Chico Hamilton and Willie Anderson, earning far too much money!
Dave's right in that we all basically want to have our youth back.
There's lots I miss about football from back then, particularly the atmosphere. It's hard to explain to younger fans what real atmosphere is - that buzz around the ground in the build up to kick off, or when an attack or pressure builds. Singing or chanting can contribute or even spoil an atmosphere but fans nowadays think it is atmosphere.
It would be stupid to suggest that modern comfortable family friendly grounds are in any way a negative compared to back then, but losing that real buzz is a side-affect of it all.
I think you've hit on something there. Back in t'old days you could tell what was happening with your eyes closed. There was an enveloping background noise that rose and fell with the action. I was at the Newcastle match earlier this season. I closed my eyes for a moment and got nothing. That said, nothing happened in that match and I was in the Doug Ellis.
Witton Lane.
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SIR Doug Ellis. ;)
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I well remember watching football in the 70s and being told by older relatives that "football's not what it used to be". Comments about it being played by "girls"with long hair like George Best or our own Chico Hamilton and Willie Anderson, earning far too much money!
Dave's right in that we all basically want to have our youth back.
There's lots I miss about football from back then, particularly the atmosphere. It's hard to explain to younger fans what real atmosphere is - that buzz around the ground in the build up to kick off, or when an attack or pressure builds. Singing or chanting can contribute or even spoil an atmosphere but fans nowadays think it is atmosphere.
It would be stupid to suggest that modern comfortable family friendly grounds are in any way a negative compared to back then, but losing that real buzz is a side-affect of it all.
I think you've hit on something there. Back in t'old days you could tell what was happening with your eyes closed. There was an enveloping background noise that rose and fell with the action. I was at the Newcastle match earlier this season. I closed my eyes for a moment and got nothing. That said, nothing happened in that match and I was in the Doug Ellis.
Witton Lane.
Thought I'd get away with that, posting in what I calculated were the wee small hours back in the UK. I'm now pretty sure you are some sort of cyborg who doesn't sleep.
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Asa Hartford is mentioned in 'players living round the corner'. He lived in my aunts road in Lichfield at one point. Noel Cantwell lived next door to my mum and dad's friends who we used to visit in Coventry. John Deehan lived with his parents a few minutes away from me and my parents. I remember being impressed with his TR7. I can remember watching that Leicester v Shrewsbury cup tie with the different keepers in 1982 on MOTD or Star Soccer. Around that time I also remember Star Soccer making a big fuss of the Stoke keeper Peter Fox being sent off in the early days of the professional foul rule. And an Everton v Liverpool game around the same time that was shown live and Glen Keeley on loan from Blackburn got sent off early for a professional foul. I think it ended 0-5 and was the only time he pulled on an Everton shirt.
I sat next to John Deehan at church when I was young. He had a Motty style sheepskin coat IIRC.
Graham Lovett's parents lived next door to my cousins in Garrett's Green.
Seems like a different world and it beacuse it was nearly 4 decades ago
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A contrast to the current mood: when he was on loan at Wolves, Michael Mancienne rented the house next door to my youngest brother. When he moved out, he left everything. Wardrobes of designer clothes, games consoles, plasma televisions, the lot. Dunno they're born these days.
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Its the lack of competitiveness I really miss.
In the 70's a good manager with a keen eye for a player could bulld a squad from nothing and win the league. Derby, Forest etc. Teams did dominate, like leeds but they didnt win everything. There was a wide mix of teams winning the trophies.
I also think that football was more entertaining but maybe my memory just concentrates on the great teams we had in the 70's and early 80's
Football also seemed more exciting because there was less to see and beey little on TV. Going to a game was a real treat
Pretty much this.
On the pitch the quality of football, the skill, technique and athleticism of the players is many many times higher. You're guaranteed to see at least one incredible world class goal every week in the Premier League.
The facilities are much better, the threat of getting your head kicked in is pretty much gone.
However, the thing I miss is the (nearly always misguided) belief at the start of every season that this could be Villa's year. I already know that Chelsea, Man City or Man Utd will win it, with perhaps Arsenal or Liverpool having a go at it.
I was 9 when Villa won the League; and I don't think I'll live long enough to see Villa win it again.
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Its the lack of competitiveness I really miss.
In the 70's a good manager with a keen eye for a player could bulld a squad from nothing and win the league. Derby, Forest etc. Teams did dominate, like leeds but they didnt win everything. There was a wide mix of teams winning the trophies.
I also think that football was more entertaining but maybe my memory just concentrates on the great teams we had in the 70's and early 80's
Football also seemed more exciting because there was less to see and beey little on TV. Going to a game was a real treat
Pretty much this.
On the pitch the quality of football, the skill, technique and athleticism of the players is many many times higher. You're guaranteed to see at least one incredible world class goal every week in the Premier League.
The facilities are much better, the threat of getting your head kicked in is pretty much gone.
However, the thing I miss is the (nearly always misguided) belief at the start of every season that this could be Villa's year. I already know that Chelsea, Man City or Man Utd will win it, with perhaps Arsenal or Liverpool having a go at it.
I was 9 when Villa won the League; and I don't think I'll live long enough to see Villa win it again.
I was -2 if it makes you feel any better.
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Well if you live to be 100 you might live to see the financial collapse of the Premier League, along with the introduction of salary caps/transfer fee caps.
I do think it's going to take something like that to level the playing field once again - perhaps Sky pulling out, and no-one else being rich enough to step in; or the UK leaving the European Union and then imposing limits on foreign players.
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Asa Hartford is mentioned in 'players living round the corner'. He lived in my aunts road in Lichfield at one point. Noel Cantwell lived next door to my mum and dad's friends who we used to visit in Coventry. John Deehan lived with his parents a few minutes away from me and my parents. I remember being impressed with his TR7. I can remember watching that Leicester v Shrewsbury cup tie with the different keepers in 1982 on MOTD or Star Soccer. Around that time I also remember Star Soccer making a big fuss of the Stoke keeper Peter Fox being sent off in the early days of the professional foul rule. And an Everton v Liverpool game around the same time that was shown live and Glen Keeley on loan from Blackburn got sent off early for a professional foul. I think it ended 0-5 and was the only time he pulled on an Everton shirt.
I sat next to John Deehan at church when I was young. He had a Motty style sheepskin coat IIRC.
Graham Lovett's parents lived next door to my cousins in Garrett's Green.
Seems like a different world and it beacuse it was nearly 4 decades ago
I went to the same junior/infant and comprehensive schools as John Deehan but he was long gone by the time I followed in his footsteps. Graham Lovett's brother Terry had a sports shop in Acocks Green and my old man rented a side building from him with a view to opening an electrical shop but ended up just using it to store stuff until my mum put her foot down and cancelled the agreement.
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When I had a paper round I delivered the Daily Express to John Wile's house. He never once gave me a Christmas tip. I'd like to think the captain of a Premier League side in 2015 might be a bit more generous, but then again you'd never get the paper through the security gates of their mansion.
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When I had a paper round I delivered the Daily Express to John Wile's house. He never once gave me a Christmas tip. I'd like to think the captain of a Premier League side in 2015 might be a bit more generous, but then again you'd never get the paper through the security gates of their mansion.
Most of em cant read!
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Although I can't moan too much as I'm a big watcher of Sky games, but Saturday afternoon at 3pm is the fixture you want to see your team play in.
Used to be great listening to the results being read by James Alexander-Gordon on the way back from the match.
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Tony Butler, his prayer mat and the horn when a goal was scored. If I wasnt at VP I would be playing subutteo on the dining room floor whilst listening to Tony on a Saturday afternoon.
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I enjoyed that article, thanks for posting Dave.
There's a lot of good from the old days I miss, maybe more bad though not missed. Violence being the main worry. Saying that was only a spell in the 70's and 80's. My old man used to take my mom to Molineux regular in the late 50's. She told me she used to have to wear her high heels so she could see, but then she would sink in the mud! They used to get 40-50k as well.
I loved the Old Holte End, I could never see anything being the midget that I am, but the atmosphere was amazing. I'd lose my dad or my uncle depending who took me.
We used to have Wolves players on our estate when I lived in Wolverhampton, growing up between 1978-83 before I moved to Devon. Me and my brother used to ask to wash there cars on the drive.
The biggest shame of all is the lack of competition if your not in the elite band of rich clubs, this is the World over now. If Man City do not win the league, or Man Utd they will just throw another 100-200 million at it.
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When I had a paper round I delivered the Daily Express to John Wile's house. He never once gave me a Christmas tip. I'd like to think the captain of a Premier League side in 2015 might be a bit more generous, but then again you'd never get the paper through the security gates of their mansion.
Most of em cant read!
Wasn't it the Daily Express who sponsored the old six a sides competition? Sportsnight used to dedicate a programme to it. If I remember right it was played at Wembley Arena just before Christmas. Then it became the Attari Soccer Sixes and moved to the NEC and was played after Christmas.
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Its the lack of competitiveness I really miss.
In the 70's a good manager with a keen eye for a player could bulld a squad from nothing and win the league. Derby, Forest etc. Teams did dominate, like leeds but they didnt win everything. There was a wide mix of teams winning the trophies.
I also think that football was more entertaining but maybe my memory just concentrates on the great teams we had in the 70's and early 80's
Football also seemed more exciting because there was less to see and beey little on TV. Going to a game was a real treat
Pretty much this.
On the pitch the quality of football, the skill, technique and athleticism of the players is many many times higher. You're guaranteed to see at least one incredible world class goal every week in the Premier League.
The facilities are much better, the threat of getting your head kicked in is pretty much gone.
However, the thing I miss is the (nearly always misguided) belief at the start of every season that this could be Villa's year. I already know that Chelsea, Man City or Man Utd will win it, with perhaps Arsenal or Liverpool having a go at it.
I was 9 when Villa won the League; and I don't think I'll live long enough to see Villa win it again.
I was -2 if it makes you feel any better.
I was -3
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When I had a paper round I delivered the Daily Express to John Wile's house. He never once gave me a Christmas tip. I'd like to think the captain of a Premier League side in 2015 might be a bit more generous, but then again you'd never get the paper through the security gates of their mansion.
Most of em cant read!
Wasn't it the Daily Express who sponsored the old six a sides competition? Sportsnight used to dedicate a programme to it. If I remember right it was played at Wembley Arena just before Christmas. Then it became the Attari Soccer Sixes and moved to the NEC and was played after Christmas.
I am pretty certain of the Daily Express and Sportsnight thing Damo. I even had the Subbuteo 6 a side game. Attari means absolutely nothing to me.
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The best thing about Vinnie Jones tackle on Steve McMahon was the way Macca picked himself up & got on with it.
What I hate about today's game is seeing players faking injury, man the f*ck up.
I think that's why us middle aged fans like rugby.
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Its the lack of competitiveness I really miss.
In the 70's a good manager with a keen eye for a player could bulld a squad from nothing and win the league. Derby, Forest etc. Teams did dominate, like leeds but they didnt win everything. There was a wide mix of teams winning the trophies.
I also think that football was more entertaining but maybe my memory just concentrates on the great teams we had in the 70's and early 80's
Football also seemed more exciting because there was less to see and beey little on TV. Going to a game was a real treat
Pretty much this.
On the pitch the quality of football, the skill, technique and athleticism of the players is many many times higher. You're guaranteed to see at least one incredible world class goal every week in the Premier League.
The facilities are much better, the threat of getting your head kicked in is pretty much gone.
However, the thing I miss is the (nearly always misguided) belief at the start of every season that this could be Villa's year. I already know that Chelsea, Man City or Man Utd will win it, with perhaps Arsenal or Liverpool having a go at it.
I was 9 when Villa won the League; and I don't think I'll live long enough to see Villa win it again.
I was -2 if it makes you feel any better.
1980 I get born
1981 Villa win league
1982 Villa win European Cup
Winter 1983 Villa win European Super Cup
Autumn 1983 Adam gets born, Villa stop winning things.
Not that I blame you...
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I'm not sure anything could match the excitement of the Christmas we got a VHS video recorder and a Teletext TV. I can clearly remember the first time I followed a Villa away game on Teletext. It was at my uncle's and we lost 3-0 at Newcastle in one of Graham Turner's last games. The first March transfer deadline day of having Teletext was also memorable.
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What I marvel at is that I still love Football, and most of all our club. Perhaps what might help is that when I first started going we were crap (early 60s) then got worse, but I still went as often as I could because of who we were and the game, despite knowing we'd no chance of winning anything.
The good years were, of course, brilliant. But somehow tinged with unreality as I'd grown up supporting a bunch of wonderful losers. Even so, I now had new expectations, up to the end of the O'Neill years.
Now I seem to be back where I started. I love the club, the game but have little expectation of any success. The difference now is that I'm thst much more knowing and therefore that much more numb.
Where are you now Ron Saunders? And yes, where the heck is my youth?
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I think the shitter we get, the more I care about the club. It's like I think it needs me more then?
Conversely a new bazillionaire owner, massive success and global renown, and I'd probably stop bothering.
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I loved the Villa from when I felt there was no hope whatsoever, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to change now.
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its all about money now. You can confidently determine your end position in the league before a ball is kicked largely worked out by your financial clout.
There were divers around back in the 70's but it has become like the foreign football we all hated.
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Its the lack of competitiveness I really miss.
In the 70's a good manager with a keen eye for a player could bulld a squad from nothing and win the league. Derby, Forest etc. Teams did dominate, like leeds but they didnt win everything. There was a wide mix of teams winning the trophies.
I also think that football was more entertaining but maybe my memory just concentrates on the great teams we had in the 70's and early 80's
Football also seemed more exciting because there was less to see and beey little on TV. Going to a game was a real treat
Pretty much this.
On the pitch the quality of football, the skill, technique and athleticism of the players is many many times higher. You're guaranteed to see at least one incredible world class goal every week in the Premier League.
The facilities are much better, the threat of getting your head kicked in is pretty much gone.
However, the thing I miss is the (nearly always misguided) belief at the start of every season that this could be Villa's year. I already know that Chelsea, Man City or Man Utd will win it, with perhaps Arsenal or Liverpool having a go at it.
I was 9 when Villa won the League; and I don't think I'll live long enough to see Villa win it again.
I was -2 if it makes you feel any better.
1980 I get born
1981 Villa win league
1982 Villa win European Cup
Winter 1983 Villa win European Super Cup
Autumn 1983 Adam gets born, Villa stop winning things.
Not that I blame you...
Autumn?!?! I was born in August.
And I think you're forgetting the Inter-TOTO Cup....
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Its the lack of competitiveness I really miss.
In the 70's a good manager with a keen eye for a player could bulld a squad from nothing and win the league. Derby, Forest etc. Teams did dominate, like leeds but they didnt win everything. There was a wide mix of teams winning the trophies.
I also think that football was more entertaining but maybe my memory just concentrates on the great teams we had in the 70's and early 80's
Football also seemed more exciting because there was less to see and beey little on TV. Going to a game was a real treat
Pretty much this.
On the pitch the quality of football, the skill, technique and athleticism of the players is many many times higher. You're guaranteed to see at least one incredible world class goal every week in the Premier League.
The facilities are much better, the threat of getting your head kicked in is pretty much gone.
However, the thing I miss is the (nearly always misguided) belief at the start of every season that this could be Villa's year. I already know that Chelsea, Man City or Man Utd will win it, with perhaps Arsenal or Liverpool having a go at it.
I was 9 when Villa won the League; and I don't think I'll live long enough to see Villa win it again.
I was -2 if it makes you feel any better.
1980 I get born
1981 Villa win league
1982 Villa win European Cup
Winter 1983 Villa win European Super Cup
Autumn 1983 Adam gets born, Villa stop winning things.
Not that I blame you...
Autumn?!?! I was born in August.
And I think you're forgetting the Inter-TOTO Cup....
My favourite thing about the Inter Toto cup is people who call it 'the Inter Two Bob cup' and then snort with laughter and look very proud of themselves as if they are the first person to think of calling it that for a laugh.
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It really was crap though, it looked and was the same size as an egg cup.
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When I had a paper round I delivered the Daily Express to John Wile's house. He never once gave me a Christmas tip. I'd like to think the captain of a Premier League side in 2015 might be a bit more generous, but then again you'd never get the paper through the security gates of their mansion.
Most of em cant read!
Or give a shit about the real world.
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Its the lack of competitiveness I really miss.
I remember sitting down with my Dad in early August sometime in the late 70s and we'd go through the teams and we'd come up with 11 (ELEVEN) teams that realistically stood a chance of winning the league. Now it's either Chelsea or Man City. It would take a freak season for anybody else to win it now.
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I'm not sure anything could match the excitement of the Christmas we got a VHS video recorder and a Teletext TV. I can clearly remember the first time I followed a Villa away game on Teletext. It was at my uncle's and we lost 3-0 at Newcastle in one of Graham Turner's last games. The first March transfer deadline day of having Teletext was also memorable.
God how I miss Teletex. We are with Virgin and Lady Ron decided we would have their Tivo service as it was free to add. Their news information is dreadful in the extreme. Slow and ponderous doesn't describe it.
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I'm not sure anything could match the excitement of the Christmas we got a VHS video recorder and a Teletext TV. I can clearly remember the first time I followed a Villa away game on Teletext. It was at my uncle's and we lost 3-0 at Newcastle in one of Graham Turner's last games. The first March transfer deadline day of having Teletext was also memorable.
God how I miss Teletex. We are with Virgin and Lady Ron decided we would have their Tivo service as it was free to add. Their news information is dreadful in the extreme. Slow and ponderous doesn't describe it.
I stick the BBC text on occasionally for old times sake and a quick look at the news, sport and showbiz pages.
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I'm not sure anything could match the excitement of the Christmas we got a VHS video recorder and a Teletext TV. I can clearly remember the first time I followed a Villa away game on Teletext. It was at my uncle's and we lost 3-0 at Newcastle in one of Graham Turner's last games. The first March transfer deadline day of having Teletext was also memorable.
God how I miss Teletex. We are with Virgin and Lady Ron decided we would have their Tivo service as it was free to add. Their news information is dreadful in the extreme. Slow and ponderous doesn't describe it.
I stick the BBC text on occasionally for old times sake and a quick look at the news, sport and showbiz pages.
It is probably better than their website which is now laughably shit.
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It really was crap though, it looked and was the same size as an egg cup.
To be fair I think the old Jules Rimet trophy was the only trophy that was the same size in real life as the Subbuteo replica.
To this day I am not sure why I got the Jules Rimet trophy instead of the modern trophy with my World Cup Subbeteo set in the late seventies.
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If I couldn't make it to an away game , I'd be outside the newsagent about 6 waiting for the sports argus to be delivered so I could read the report on the game..There would probably be a dozen blokes waiting for the argus to turn up.
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I remember being at a wedding reception in the early eighties and some bloke coming in and going round selling The Argus.
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I remember being at a wedding reception in the early eighties and some bloke coming in and going round selling The Argus.
Lucky you. I had to go and hunt down an Argus seller at my own wedding reception on 27th February 1971.
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E.I.Adio, were you pissed or just excited ?
2oth of feb 71 we drew away to Bury, 26th of feb 72 we beat Port Vale 2-0 I hope the wedding was a good one.
I was at the Vale game, it was a good one.
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I was at the Bury one.
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20th September 1980 was a good wedding day - we beat Wolves during a great run for us - only home game I missed that season.
Remember being elated at the result...can't remember my speech, my brother's (best man) or anything else about it except for the round of applause we got from the invited guests prompted by the wonderful old priest who had a real soft spot for us.
Then my Villa mates arrived for the evening do...one of them with a copy of the Argus for me!
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The Bury game was shite awful. A 3-1 tanking at the snothole at the end of the universe. The most interesting part of the day was travelling through a place called Besses o'th' Barn on the train from Manchester.
I was at the game on the 27th too. I hope the result didn't cool your ardour too much EIA.
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20th September 1980 was a good wedding day - we beat Wolves during a great run for us - only home game I missed that season.
Remember being elated at the result...can't remember my speech, my brother's (best man) or anything else about it except for the round of applause we got from the invited guests prompted by the wonderful old priest who had a real soft spot for us.
Then my Villa mates arrived for the evening do...one of them with a copy of the Argus for me!
tight arse...could he not just buy a toaster ?
UTV
the Doc
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One of the things i liked back in the old days,is you knew in advance when,where and what time you would be playing at the start of the season and could plan in advance.These days,i don't know until maybe a month or so before the match.