Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: remy on January 12, 2015, 05:00:12 PM
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Firstly is it Tom Fox ?
Telling RL that "take my advice" and this guy (after 4 games) is worth holding onto for another 4 years.
or
Is it RL himself who just looks at us in 13th limping along and thinks - bottom line, we're in the prem holding on just doing enough, grab the £40m and the fans and their entertainment can go hang.
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Lerner. Close thread.
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Isn't partly our fault for asking for him?
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Who's to blame...
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Lerner. Close thread.
This.
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Isn't partly our fault for asking for him?
Not really
We tried him
Never worked
And should have been sacked after the sheff urd game
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Fox wasn't in post for the Lambert contract was he?
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I still think this is payback for the pre TSM protest.
Along the lines of ' I gave you what you wanted and you still ain't happy'.
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But Lambert was the best we could get at the time
I'm sure if there had been a 50 million budget , we would have got alot better than Lambert i.e Benitez
So Lerner is now to blame for giving that contract , as Lambert should be doing better with the players he has had .
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I cant remember exact details but didn't our esteemed leader DW (yes you) allude to the fact Faulkner left because he wanted to sack Lambert?
If this is the case are we not stuck with the present situation? I dont believe Tom Fox has a remit for the team, he is here for advertising/sponsorship alone.
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Faulkner didn't choose to leave.
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Isn't partly our fault for asking for him?
I never wanted him.
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Lerner, if Doug was in charge their would have been protests at the ground and then Lambert would have been fired. Lerner gets an unbelievably easy ride sat at home not even bothering to see how his investment is crumbling.
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I cant remember exact details but didn't our esteemed leader DW (yes you) allude to the fact Faulkner left because he wanted to sack Lambert?
If this is the case are we not stuck with the present situation? I dont believe Tom Fox has a remit for the team, he is here for advertising/sponsorship alone.
No.
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Lambert is pretty much doing the job Randy has asked him to. Until new investment arrives the outlook is bleak.
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I'm not sure he is
Three more defeats on a trot , were in the bottom three, its going to be really hard to get the morale going to get us out of the bottom three.
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Even if we 'asked' for Lambert (a conceit which winds me up; as if the recruitment process starts and ends with who will make Randy Lerner look like a good guy), why do some have the sense that we have to put up with it, like we're shackled to someone we were warned time and again about? He's a crap manager, a proven failure. If we did indeed sway his appointment, we as fans were wrong, as people are. Get rid.
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Lambert wasn't my first choice to be manager but when he arrived he made all the right noises and I was quite enthused. So I do feel kind of partly responsible.
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You weren't alone in wanting him to succeed. But don't lose any sleep over any perceived loyalty.
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3rd successive season of struggle which sees us sink further and further down. If Lerner was 'onsite' he would be closer to the anger. Comical Lambert would be long gone. I blame Lerner 100% for this mess and still keeping him in charge.
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I think we, the fans must take some share of the blame that he is still here. I do not expect anybody to agree with me but I have always felt that the termination of TSM was such an outpouring of anger by us that there is a great reluctance to do the same to his replacement. It's like having two kids who have both been as naughty as each other and you smack the first one's bum but you feel guilty so the second one only gets a good telling off. Witness the fact that there are still a tenth of the fans who still want to give him more time. We the fans, collectively never gave Vic Crowe or Tommy Cummings, or Josef Venglos or Graham Turner or Billy McNeill or David O'Leary anything like the degree of latitude which has been extended to Paul Lambert who I personally rate as worse in most key aspects of team management and coaching than any of them. We must take our share of the blame because, as I have said on here many times, you get what you are prepared to put up with.
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I think we, the fans must take some share of the blame that he is still here. I do not expect anybody to agree with me but I have always felt that the termination of TSM was such an outpouring of anger by us that there is a great reluctance to do the same to his replacement. It's like having two kids who have both been as naughty as each other and you smack the first one's bum but you feel guilty so the second one only gets a good telling off. Witness the fact that there are still a tenth of the fans who still want to give him more time. We the fans, collectively never gave Vic Crowe or Tommy Cummings, or Josef Venglos or Graham Turner or Billy McNeill or David O'Leary anything like the degree of latitude which has been extended to Paul Lambert who I personally rate as worse in most key aspects of team management and coaching than any of them. We must take our share of the blame because, as I have said on here many times, you get what you are prepared to put up with.
100% correct Brian.
Lambert has got away with murder, he's had an easy ride due to the previous manager's dalliance with the dark side.
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I think we, the fans must take some share of the blame that he is still here. I do not expect anybody to agree with me but I have always felt that the termination of TSM was such an outpouring of anger by us that there is a great reluctance to do the same to his replacement. It's like having two kids who have both been as naughty as each other and you smack the first one's bum but you feel guilty so the second one only gets a good telling off. Witness the fact that there are still a tenth of the fans who still want to give him more time. We the fans, collectively never gave Vic Crowe or Tommy Cummings, or Josef Venglos or Graham Turner or Billy McNeill or David O'Leary anything like the degree of latitude which has been extended to Paul Lambert who I personally rate as worse in most key aspects of team management and coaching than any of them. We must take our share of the blame because, as I have said on here many times, you get what you are prepared to put up with.
100% correct Brian.
Lambert has got away with murder, he's had an easy ride due to the previous manager's dalliance with the dark side.
And you would think in the days of social media, some sort of protest would be a lot easier to organise? I think everyone is a bit apathetic about AVFC and football in general including me.
In the Ellis days, we were protesting so we could challenge for honours. Now we are protesting in the hope we finish mid table at best. Winning anything is beyond most clubs these days. The league cup doesn't really count, although i would take that right now!
Also having an absent owner makes it more difficult to protest as there is nothing actually. Visible to protest against. In the old days Ellis would be leaving the ground and would be made well aware in the car park what the fans thought. Cant happen these days and even lambert isn't an easy target aside from the matches themselves.
Pitiful situation we are in and all inflicted by our absent owner
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I think we, the fans must take some share of the blame that he is still here. I do not expect anybody to agree with me but I have always felt that the termination of TSM was such an outpouring of anger by us that there is a great reluctance to do the same to his replacement. It's like having two kids who have both been as naughty as each other and you smack the first one's bum but you feel guilty so the second one only gets a good telling off. Witness the fact that there are still a tenth of the fans who still want to give him more time. We the fans, collectively never gave Vic Crowe or Tommy Cummings, or Josef Venglos or Graham Turner or Billy McNeill or David O'Leary anything like the degree of latitude which has been extended to Paul Lambert who I personally rate as worse in most key aspects of team management and coaching than any of them. We must take our share of the blame because, as I have said on here many times, you get what you are prepared to put up with.
Largely agree Brian.
I think we've become easy to please and grateful for small mercies based on a succession of crisis situations...MON's walk out, MacDonald's attempt to save the situation, Gerard's illness, McAllister's stepping in, TSM's disastrous appointment and sacking. Lambert came along as a bright young thing who most fans seemed to favour very clearly and thought would herald a period of stability. We could see some hope towards the end of the first campaign and fans were prepared to be patient to see if things could pick up again. But it's been a pretty much downhill trend since with little or no sign of plan, approach or philosophy of how Lambert believes the game/his team should be played.
The protests have been a long time coming but they're here now and I think will only get louder. The media are starting to take note and comment - 5Live tonight again had focus on us and how poor things are on and off the field. Pat Murphy was not as bad as I expected but was pretty honest in his views with a nod to "lots of angry Villa fans".
The conclusion was though, that Lambert seems to be here to stay as Lerner has given him a few million quid to spend on unknown/unreliable hopefuls.
I see it as yet another plan - more crisis management - that Lambert/Lerner are using to buy time.
Like a number of others on here have expressed in other threads, I hope the new personnel work out because I want Aston Villa to do better, get out of trouble, climb the table, "succeed".
But I have just about had it with Lambert and his shite tactics ruining the reputation of the club I love and I will be joining in with the "Lambert Out" chants at the end of games where he has mismanaged the team yet again.
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If I understand it correctly, our negative reaction to the McLaren idea played no part in Lerner deciding to take things no further. That being the case, I find it difficult to believe that he took much notice of some fans' support for Lambert pre-appointment. Similarly I doubt if he'll pay much attention to most fans' desire for someone else to be brought in.
I'm afraid to say it seems as if the club is currently being run, and in fact has been run for some time, in the best interests of Lerner himself than the team.
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Let's say, for the sake of argument, that people weren't too apathetic to protest. What would those protests look like, and what would you hope that they achieve?
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Sorry, meant to quote Rudy65's post above.
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Are these people talking about the same person? Albeit, this article is from June 2012.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/18293457
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The main problem is that we have brought into Lerner's downgrading of our ambitions, while also being bombarded by the fact that it is the Sky 4,5 or 6, this week 2 Chavski, Abu City , who are the only ones in the league that have a chance of success.
We now class staying in the league as the be all and end all, even accepting someone like Tony Penis regardless of the style, as long as he keeps us up. The disconnect that Lerner has been a major factor in happening, is nearly fully accepted.
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The main problem is that we have brought into Lerner's downgrading of our ambitions, while also being bombarded by the fact that it is the Sky 4,5 or 6, this week 2 Chavski, Abu City , who are the only ones in the league that have a chance of success.
We now class staying in the league as the be all and end all, even accepting someone like Tony Penis regardless of the style, as long as he keeps us up. The disconnect that Lerner has been a major factor in happening, is nearly fully accepted.
Arranging a press conference for a player that cost £3 million quid in an attempt to appease the fans sums up where the club is at the moment. Pathetic!
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The main problem is that we have brought into Lerner's downgrading of our ambitions, while also being bombarded by the fact that it is the Sky 4,5 or 6, this week 2 Chavski, Abu City , who are the only ones in the league that have a chance of success.
We now class staying in the league as the be all and end all, even accepting someone like Tony Penis regardless of the style, as long as he keeps us up. The disconnect that Lerner has been a major factor in happening, is nearly fully accepted.
Arranging a press conference for a player that cost £3 million quid in an attempt to appease the fans sums up where the club is at the moment. Pathetic!
There were lots of Press Conferences in Graham Turner's days to announce new signings. Most of them didn't work out all that well.
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I think teams always have press conferences to announce new signings. That's a bizarre stick to attempt to beat the club with.
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We are not to blame for Lambert being recruited - that is a decision for the board of directors who IIRC would have preferred OGS and Roberto Martinez.
The fact that most of us were happy / relieved when he was appointed following 2 years of footballing calamity is irrelevant as the appointment has not worked out.
Lambert has had a very easy ride from fans so he should be very careful in talking us in O'Learyesque terms.
Managers who leave the Villa do not go on to manage anything or anyone bigger or better. That is a fact.
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The main problem is that we have brought into Lerner's downgrading of our ambitions, while also being bombarded by the fact that it is the Sky 4,5 or 6, this week 2 Chavski, Abu City , who are the only ones in the league that have a chance of success.
We now class staying in the league as the be all and end all, even accepting someone like Tony Penis regardless of the style, as long as he keeps us up. The disconnect that Lerner has been a major factor in happening, is nearly fully accepted.
Arranging a press conference for a player that cost £3 million quid in an attempt to appease the fans sums up where the club is at the moment. Pathetic!
Why is a press conference an 'attempt to appease the fans'?
Is anybody going to 'appeased' by a couple of blokes from the Mail asking him the usual questions rather than Jack Woodward doing it and the quotes just appearing on the OS as normal?
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I thought Lambert was a great appointment at the time, but after his second season I wanted him gone. I still do but I guess its an easy decision when its not your money.
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The main problem is that we have brought into Lerner's downgrading of our ambitions, while also being bombarded by the fact that it is the Sky 4,5 or 6, this week 2 Chavski, Abu City , who are the only ones in the league that have a chance of success.
We now class staying in the league as the be all and end all, even accepting someone like Tony Penis regardless of the style, as long as he keeps us up. The disconnect that Lerner has been a major factor in happening, is nearly fully accepted.
Arranging a press conference for a player that cost £3 million quid in an attempt to appease the fans sums up where the club is at the moment. Pathetic!
Why is a press conference an 'attempt to appease the fans'?
Is anybody going to 'appeased' by a couple of blokes from the Mail asking him the usual questions rather than Jack Woodward doing it and the quotes just appearing on the OS as normal?
Perhaps 'appease the fans' is the wrong wording. Maybe having a press conference (which lets be honest is a little unusual for a new signing) is designed to deflect attention from what's going on with people calling for Lambert's head. Maybe the idea of seeing him sat there with a brand new Spanish winger next to him might be be done with the intention of giving fans renewed hope. It's just a thought, I might be wrong.
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I thought Lambert was a great appointment at the time, but after his second season I wanted him gone. I still do but I guess its an easy decision when its not your money.
I think most people thought he was going to go after Spurs last season. "Lambert's Last Stand" they called it.
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The last game certainly had the feel that he would be gone. He was getting a load of stick and the songs were very much gallows humour.
"You're nothing special, we lose every week" and "how shit must you be? You've only scored three!" were quite apt songs belted out by the vast majority.
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The main problem is that we have brought into Lerner's downgrading of our ambitions, while also being bombarded by the fact that it is the Sky 4,5 or 6, this week 2 Chavski, Abu City , who are the only ones in the league that have a chance of success.
We now class staying in the league as the be all and end all, even accepting someone like Tony Penis regardless of the style, as long as he keeps us up. The disconnect that Lerner has been a major factor in happening, is nearly fully accepted.
Arranging a press conference for a player that cost £3 million quid in an attempt to appease the fans sums up where the club is at the moment. Pathetic!
They've managed to cock that up as well it seems
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I was pleased too when Lambert was appointed. I genuinely wanted him to succeed with the young and hungry plan.
The pastings we took in that first season was a "learning curve" for the players I took it as. Lowton, Westwood, Weimann all showed tremendous promise after that first year for us to kick on in the second. All 3 thought they have "made it" and havent reached nowhere near the heights of that year.
2nd season my patience was running out with some appalling performances before a look-thru-my-fingers at a close call relegation survival.
3rd season he's still here despite record after record of atrocious football and attitude from the players.
Here we are - January and everybody wants us to go down because of how shit we are.
I want Lambert and Lerner gone - and my club back.
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I was pleased too when Lambert was appointed. I genuinely wanted him to succeed with the young and hungry plan.
The pastings we took in that first season was a "learning curve" for the players I took it as. Lowton, Westwood, Weimann all showed tremendous promise after that first year for us to kick on in the second. All 3 thought they have "made it" and havent reached nowhere near the heights of that year.
2nd season my patience was running out with some appalling performances before a look-thru-my-fingers at a close call relegation survival.
3rd season he's still here despite record after record of atrocious football and attitude from the players.
Here we are - January and everybody wants us to go down because of how shit we are.
I want Lambert and Lerner gone - and my club back.
We hear a lot about this "wanting our club back". What does it mean and how do you think it's going to happen?
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I think teams always have press conferences to announce new signings. That's a bizarre stick to attempt to beat the club with.
Agreed.
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Any idea when we actually last got a quote from Lerner regarding Villa? Never mind a full interview.
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no, but he isn't alone in being guarded and protecting his privacy - I half caught a piece on the TV this morning about the Glazers and their MO is identical according to American journalists in Florida who were speaking about the family's interest in the Tampa Bay Buccaneers
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I think we, the fans must take some share of the blame that he is still here. I do not expect anybody to agree with me but I have always felt that the termination of TSM was such an outpouring of anger by us that there is a great reluctance to do the same to his replacement. It's like having two kids who have both been as naughty as each other and you smack the first one's bum but you feel guilty so the second one only gets a good telling off. Witness the fact that there are still a tenth of the fans who still want to give him more time. We the fans, collectively never gave Vic Crowe or Tommy Cummings, or Josef Venglos or Graham Turner or Billy McNeill or David O'Leary anything like the degree of latitude which has been extended to Paul Lambert who I personally rate as worse in most key aspects of team management and coaching than any of them. We must take our share of the blame because, as I have said on here many times, you get what you are prepared to put up with.
Well said Brian. I honestly think some of our fans have become affected by the 'F' word since that idiot O'Leary first (incorrectly) accused us of it, and are afraid to protest for fear of once again being given that label. Then there are fans who think it is detrimental to the team to protest at games. This view fails to consider the bigger picture, that sometimes a bit of pain is required for longer term gain. Then there are those that espouse the view that you support your team no matter what. Again misguided in my view and again failing to see the bigger picture wherein sometimes you need to remove elements from the club that are damaging it. That does not make you a bad, disloyal supporter, it marks you out as someone who is willing to say enough is enough and something has to change. It is noticeable that the fans of quite a few other clubs are nowhere near as shy about venting their feelings as Villa's seem to be. Despite claims to the contrary, it does seem that Lerner responded to both the negative response to McLaren, and the outpouring of anger against McLeish. He hasn't really responded to much else.
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Agreed KT. I was listening to the Guardian podcast today, and there was a feeling of great sympathy with us, and even surprise that we weren't more vocal about how immiserating it must be to watch the Villa at the moment. We need have no cringe about this as regards the 'F' word.
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When it comes down to it, our history since O’Neill grabbed his Action Man from the pram and flounced out of Villa Park, is seen as a litany of poor decision making. If Lerner or anyone else making the decisions at the club is guilty of anything, it will be in their decision-making process. However, if we look objectively at the facts since O’Neill went, I do have a certain amount of sympathy though with Lerner and co.
Houllier – Came with a fantastic CV and a reputation at Liverpool that was based on talent spotting and developing youth. His career had been curtailed by illness and he was anxious to get back into management. He seemed to tick all the boxes for us and no doubt seemed a good fit for Lerner, who was anxious to turn the tide quickly on the excesses of O’Neill that had nearly bankrupted us.
McLeish – Putting aside the obvious employer, the fact is that he had just won them a trophy and landed them their highest league finish in eons. It strikes me that when they were going through this managerial hiring process, they had been struggling with a shortlist and decided to enlist the wizened opinion of the most successful manager of our generation. It still seems an insane appointment, but looking at it purely objectionably, they were clearly trying to utilize expert judgment and best practice to the process.
Lambert – Despite his record now, the simple fact is that he came with an impressive CV and had been schooled in the Dortmund model. His appointment was universally welcomed here and his appointment was seen as the right step for us.
I cannot help wonder if the Lerner and co have been so burnt by the appointment process since O’Neill and how they have panned out, that they have been simply frozen into inaction. Put yourself in their position, they are painted as fools and idiots on here, but I genuinely believe that they did try to apply the right decision-making process into this and had any of the three aforementioned managers shown the potential, it would be a different debate.
I, like many others, loved Lambert’s appointment, am bitterly disappointed that he cannot show his potential and am worried that those running our club would not get it right once more; were he to be removed. Maybe they are just bloody unlucky, but should he go, I really worry that what would follow would be nowhere near our expectations.
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A cheese sandwich in charge would struggle to do any worse!
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When it comes down to it, our history since O’Neill grabbed his Action Man from the pram and flounced out of Villa Park, is seen as a litany of poor decision making. If Lerner or anyone else making the decisions at the club is guilty of anything, it will be in their decision-making process. However, if we look objectively at the facts since O’Neill went, I do have a certain amount of sympathy though with Lerner and co.
Houllier – Came with a fantastic CV and a reputation at Liverpool that was based on talent spotting and developing youth. His career had been curtailed by illness and he was anxious to get back into management. He seemed to tick all the boxes for us and no doubt seemed a good fit for Lerner, who was anxious to turn the tide quickly on the excesses of O’Neill that had nearly bankrupted us.
McLeish – Putting aside the obvious employer, the fact is that he had just won them a trophy and landed them their highest league finish in eons. It strikes me that when they were going through this managerial hiring process, they had been struggling with a shortlist and decided to enlist the wizened opinion of the most successful manager of our generation. It still seems an insane appointment, but looking at it purely objectionably, they were clearly trying to utilize expert judgment and best practice to the process.
Lambert – Despite his record now, the simple fact is that he came with an impressive CV and had been schooled in the Dortmund model. His appointment was universally welcomed here and his appointment was seen as the right step for us.
I cannot help wonder if the Lerner and co have been so burnt by the appointment process since O’Neill and how they have panned out, that they have been simply frozen into inaction. Put yourself in their position, they are painted as fools and idiots on here, but I genuinely believe that they did try to apply the right decision-making process into this and had any of the three aforementioned managers shown the potential, it would be a different debate.
I, like many others, loved Lambert’s appointment, am bitterly disappointed that he cannot show his potential and am worried that those running our club would not get it right once more; were he to be removed. Maybe they are just bloody unlucky, but should he go, I really worry that what would follow would be nowhere near our expectations.
The other side of the story being that we appointed a man with a history of serious illness who had been out of club management for a while, followed by a man who had relegated our neighbours twice in three seasons, followed by a man who had one seasons top flight experience.
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yes, expressed that way you could summarise the last few years decision making as Dumb, Dumb and Dumber
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I don't buy in to the Lambert having Dortmund philosophies and models that he's picked up and uses. He spent 12 months their and played less than 50 games, that's it. It wasn't a lifes work of study he did, he played one season and fuck all he's shown me suggests he's picked up any kind of mentality from that time.
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NeilH I understand where you are coming from but whilst I think trying Houllier was risky but not without merit, the McLeish appointment was pure insanity on every level. As for Lambert, you cant really argue too much with appointing him as he looked one of the most promising young managers around - that's not saying too much as the general standard of management and coaching in this country looks pretty poor to me. The problem with Lambert is that they either won't admit or realise that it hasn't worked, and is probably never going to work, and he should be booted out.
That said, from Lerner's point of view, it probably has worked and is working, in that he has set the bar so low that Lambert is meeting requirements.
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It's not working for Randy though, kt. Everything about Lambert makes it so much harder to find a buyer. Apart from the lack of entertainment, points, best players leaving for nothing, declining attendances, nobody will even look at us until they know what division we'll be playing in next season.
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I was pleased too when Lambert was appointed. I genuinely wanted him to succeed with the young and hungry plan.
The pastings we took in that first season was a "learning curve" for the players I took it as. Lowton, Westwood, Weimann all showed tremendous promise after that first year for us to kick on in the second. All 3 thought they have "made it" and havent reached nowhere near the heights of that year.
2nd season my patience was running out with some appalling performances before a look-thru-my-fingers at a close call relegation survival.
3rd season he's still here despite record after record of atrocious football and attitude from the players.
Here we are - January and everybody wants us to go down because of how shit we are.
I want Lambert and Lerner gone - and my club back.
We hear a lot about this "wanting our club back". What does it mean and how do you think it's going to happen?
Wanting our club back - my definition - a manager motivating and coaching players representing Aston Villa Football Club to play attacking, flowing, exciting football.
Players playing for the club feeling honoured and privileged to wear the shirt, putting in a shift.
Current custodian of the club to actually take notice of the fans and be present so we have a feeling of leadership.
Paying £38 through nose knowing I will be entertained not depressed and ripped off.
We will get our club back once comical lambert is relieved of his spoof managerial act and our absent owner whose name now escapes me relinquishes control after his misguided foray into soccerball.
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Wanting our club back - my definition - a manager motivating and coaching players representing Aston Villa Football Club to play attacking, flowing, exciting football.
But we haven't had that for over 15 years.
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I was pleased too when Lambert was appointed. I genuinely wanted him to succeed with the young and hungry plan.
The pastings we took in that first season was a "learning curve" for the players I took it as. Lowton, Westwood, Weimann all showed tremendous promise after that first year for us to kick on in the second. All 3 thought they have "made it" and havent reached nowhere near the heights of that year.
2nd season my patience was running out with some appalling performances before a look-thru-my-fingers at a close call relegation survival.
3rd season he's still here despite record after record of atrocious football and attitude from the players.
Here we are - January and everybody wants us to go down because of how shit we are.
I want Lambert and Lerner gone - and my club back.
We hear a lot about this "wanting our club back". What does it mean and how do you think it's going to happen?
Wanting our club back - my definition - a manager motivating and coaching players representing Aston Villa Football Club to play attacking, flowing, exciting football.
Players playing for the club feeling honoured and privileged to wear the shirt, putting in a shift.
Current custodian of the club to actually take notice of the fans and be present so we have a feeling of leadership.
Paying £38 through nose knowing I will be entertained not depressed and ripped off.
We will get our club back once comical lambert is relieved of his spoof managerial act and our absent owner whose name now escapes me relinquishes control after his misguided foray into soccerball.
So you want the same as every supporter of every club everywhere and you think it's going to happen by magic.
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I think you really know what remy means Dave.
A sense that we are doing something positive and that the owner, manager, players, fans are united in a desire to make happen.
We saw something of that towards the end of Lambert's first season and we looked forward to something resembling steady progress with the promising younger, hungry, and overseas players that Lambert had brought in. I don't think any of us expected that we would be runaway winners of the PL but we would at least give a good account of ourselves with those new players making progress individually and collectively. It didn't happen and it still isn't happening.
Some personnel and "tactics" have changed - performances and results haven't.
4 games against teams below us - which we all believed would have resulted in points gained (implied by the manager) - have resulted in no wins, 2 0-0 draws, 2 losses, no goals and a total of 2 points. " 2 points from a possible 12. In anybody's terms, way below what every supporter of every club wants: just a reasonable level of performance from a reasonable level of ability - Lambert's and the players'.
But we are not getting it.
Lambert isn't using his players in a way to achieve it.
And we can all see it.
It's bordering on the insulting.
"This is what I do. It doesn't work. We'll carry on doing the same until it somehow miraculously works."
The press seem to have suddenly cottoned on to the fact that all is not rosy in Lambert's garden and that it might have something to do with Lambert.
Last week he had a bit of a go at fans...who, you must agree, have been incredibly patient at times when they don't know which way to look for some kind of confidence or leadership. (What must the players be thinking?).
Like all of us, remy wants to see some sense of hope, of purpose and intent on the pitch to genuinely get our club out of the situation it finds itself in. (That Lambert has got us into?). And that we can all buy in to, embrace and support.
All fans, of all clubs, will want something similar.
For some it won't be enough.
For some it will be expected, regardless.
For us, I think it's become something we dream of.
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I was pleased too when Lambert was appointed. I genuinely wanted him to succeed with the young and hungry plan.
The pastings we took in that first season was a "learning curve" for the players I took it as. Lowton, Westwood, Weimann all showed tremendous promise after that first year for us to kick on in the second. All 3 thought they have "made it" and havent reached nowhere near the heights of that year.
2nd season my patience was running out with some appalling performances before a look-thru-my-fingers at a close call relegation survival.
3rd season he's still here despite record after record of atrocious football and attitude from the players.
Here we are - January and everybody wants us to go down because of how shit we are.
I want Lambert and Lerner gone - and my club back.
We hear a lot about this "wanting our club back". What does it mean and how do you think it's going to happen?
Wanting our club back - my definition - a manager motivating and coaching players representing Aston Villa Football Club to play attacking, flowing, exciting football.
Players playing for the club feeling honoured and privileged to wear the shirt, putting in a shift.
Current custodian of the club to actually take notice of the fans and be present so we have a feeling of leadership.
Paying £38 through nose knowing I will be entertained not depressed and ripped off.
We will get our club back once comical lambert is relieved of his spoof managerial act and our absent owner whose name now escapes me relinquishes control after his misguided foray into soccerball.
So you want the same as every supporter of every club everywhere and you think it's going to happen by magic.
Not by magic but by a turn of events that begins with a change of manager. I've only supported Villa since 1987/1988 season and since that time I cannot remember a manager who has been as bad as comical and surviving so long. Also the management to allow us to be crap for so long.
I had to wait 20 years for my kids to be born so I could take them down the match and make it a family affair, it breaks my heart that they don't want to go anymore.
All because of bad decision after bad decision that pummels away at AVFC.
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Not by magic but by a turn of events that begins with a change of manager. I've only supported Villa since 1987/1988 season and since that time I cannot remember a manager who has been as bad as comical and surviving so long. Also the management to allow us to be crap for so long.
I had to wait 20 years for my kids to be born so I could take them down the match and make it a family affair, it breaks my heart that they don't want to go anymore.
All because of bad decision after bad decision that pummels away at AVFC.
I'll repeat what I said before. You want what every supporter wants - a successful team. This modern cliche of "We want our *insert name here* back" is just a glib phrase that means nothing except to purvey some vague inclining of entitlement.
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Fans feel a sense of "ownership" regardless of the nuts and bolts of owning/limited companies etc.
Contexts count. I think Most Villa fans would be very happy with some sense of stability at the moment and hope that a team that includes Guzan, our solid defence this season, Sanchez, Delph, Agbonlahor, and Benteke could do better than 15th.
I doubt that equals "a successful team" in most fans' views.
It's glib out of context.
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Fans feel a sense of "ownership" regardless of the nuts and bolts of owning/limited companies etc.
Contexts count. I think Most Villa fans would be very happy with some sense of stability at the moment and hope that a team that includes Guzan, our solid defence this season, Sanchez, Delph, Agbonlahor, and Benteke could do better than 15th.
I doubt that equals "a successful team" in most fans' views.
It's glib out of context.
It strikes me as the sort of thing that gets said at clubs like Spurs with some nonsensical sense of tradition in order to put across some even more nonsensical sense of entitlement. Yes, we all want to see a team that combines the flair of BFR with the ruthless winning mentality of 1980-81 but to tie it up with wanting "our" Villa back and saying that it'll happen as soon as we get a new owner and/or manager just seems a bit daft.
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Fans feel a sense of "ownership" regardless of the nuts and bolts of owning/limited companies etc.
Contexts count. I think Most Villa fans would be very happy with some sense of stability at the moment and hope that a team that includes Guzan, our solid defence this season, Sanchez, Delph, Agbonlahor, and Benteke could do better than 15th.
I doubt that equals "a successful team" in most fans' views.
It's glib out of context.
It strikes me as the sort of thing that gets said at clubs like Spurs with some nonsensical sense of tradition in order to put across some even more nonsensical sense of entitlement. Yes, we all want to see a team that combines the flair of BFR with the ruthless winning mentality of 1980-81 but to tie it up with wanting "our" Villa back and saying that it'll happen as soon as we get a new owner and/or manager just seems a bit daft.
"Our club" should certainly not be perennial relegation strugglers that's for sure, but that's what we've become under Lerner and Lambert. Competing in the top half of the Premier League should be the bare minimum for Aston Villa, not the shit we've become over the last 5 seasons.
Don't see anything controversial in saying that.
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Fans feel a sense of "ownership" regardless of the nuts and bolts of owning/limited companies etc.
Contexts count. I think Most Villa fans would be very happy with some sense of stability at the moment and hope that a team that includes Guzan, our solid defence this season, Sanchez, Delph, Agbonlahor, and Benteke could do better than 15th.
I doubt that equals "a successful team" in most fans' views.
It's glib out of context.
It strikes me as the sort of thing that gets said at clubs like Spurs with some nonsensical sense of tradition in order to put across some even more nonsensical sense of entitlement. Yes, we all want to see a team that combines the flair of BFR with the ruthless winning mentality of 1980-81 but to tie it up with wanting "our" Villa back and saying that it'll happen as soon as we get a new owner and/or manager just seems a bit daft.
"Our club" should certainly not be perennial relegation strugglers that's for sure, but that's what we've become under Lerner and Lambert. Competing in the top half of the Premier League should be the bare minimum for Aston Villa, not the shit we've become over the last 5 seasons.
Don't see anything controversial in saying that.
It's still a meaningless phrase, particularly if you want to build a revolution around it.
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The only time I felt it wasn't my Villa in my time was the tail end of MON. We were Martin O'Neill's Villa and no one elses.
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Fans feel a sense of "ownership" regardless of the nuts and bolts of owning/limited companies etc.
Contexts count. I think Most Villa fans would be very happy with some sense of stability at the moment and hope that a team that includes Guzan, our solid defence this season, Sanchez, Delph, Agbonlahor, and Benteke could do better than 15th.
I doubt that equals "a successful team" in most fans' views.
It's glib out of context.
It strikes me as the sort of thing that gets said at clubs like Spurs with some nonsensical sense of tradition in order to put across some even more nonsensical sense of entitlement. Yes, we all want to see a team that combines the flair of BFR with the ruthless winning mentality of 1980-81 but to tie it up with wanting "our" Villa back and saying that it'll happen as soon as we get a new owner and/or manager just seems a bit daft.
"Our club" should certainly not be perennial relegation strugglers that's for sure, but that's what we've become under Lerner and Lambert. Competing in the top half of the Premier League should be the bare minimum for Aston Villa, not the shit we've become over the last 5 seasons.
Don't see anything controversial in saying that.
It's still a meaningless phrase, particularly if you want to build a revolution around it.
Perhaps it is but at the very least it's a start and a way of drawing attention to what Lerner and Lambert are doing to the club. It's about time the fans started to speak up.
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The only time I felt it wasn't my Villa in my time was the tail end of MON. We were Martin O'Neill's Villa and no one elses.
Oh please!
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Perhaps it is but at the very least it's a start and a way of drawing attention to what Lerner and Lambert are doing to the club. It's about time the fans started to speak up.
In a way that's guaranteed to make us look clueless at best.
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Perhaps it is but at the very least it's a start and a way of drawing attention to what Lerner and Lambert are doing to the club. It's about time the fans started to speak up.
In a way that's guaranteed to make us look clueless at best.
I agree it's a bit lame, but we're football fans and we're never going to have a sophisticated protest. If it draws attention to what Lerner has done to us over these last 5 seasons then I'm all for it though. The media are starting to take an interest at last.
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Perhaps it is but at the very least it's a start and a way of drawing attention to what Lerner and Lambert are doing to the club. It's about time the fans started to speak up.
In a way that's guaranteed to make us look clueless at best.
I agree it's a bit lame, but we're football fans and we're never going to have a sophisticated protest. If it draws attention to what Lerner has done to us over these last 5 seasons then I'm all for it though. The media are starting to take an interest at last.
It doesn't need to be particularly highbrow but the people behind it should at least be able to answer the question "What do you want?"
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I think some sense of pride in what we stand for - and we have plenty in that department, but none on the pitch - is what is meant. As I stated earlier: a sense of direction, purpose and intent. Lambert's first season many consider a disaster, but we could also see that there was some sense of purpose and a plan by May. That has simply disappeared.
I don't think we do expect BFR's flair and Saunders' ruthless winning mentality.
We simply expect the Villa manager and players to work hard for each other, the team, the club, the owner and the fans with some sense of pride in their collective efforts.
Leicester showed that on Saturday.
We were embarrassing by comparison.
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"We want a our club back" - may be glib when put into the context of spuds and their sense of entitlement.
For me it resonates because I have a different interpretation.
Me wanting my club back doesnt mean I have a sense of entitlement to be sitting in the top 4 because we won the EC in 1982.
I dont expect a hybrid of the class of 81 and 92 and for us to be top 4 regulars. I am a realist. Somewhere in the top 10 with the odd cup run thrown in based on the resources we have at our disposal.
What I dont expect is for us to be perennially shite for so long and allowed to carry on still. I was at VP last week and the whole atmosphere felt toxic. The staff were miserable, the fans are miserable, our reputation is in tatters, 3 points off relegation, one goal in the last 6 league games, ad nauseum.
Where is the knowledge that whoever is in charge is HERE and has the best interests of AVFC at heart.
The players dont look up for it - manager at fault.
The tactics, substitutions, team selection - manager at fault.
Same monotone, deluded after match analysis from the manager.
However it happens, me wanting my club back means:
I'd expect to walk in to Villa Park to buy a ticket for an upcoming game knowing that ok they might be better than us but we'll give them a game not hoping Guzan will keep their score down.
I'd expect to play a 4th division team in the cup over 2 legs and expect to beat them not wondering whether that 7-1 odds is too good to resist year after year.
I'd expect to be beaten 8-0 by a World XI not Chelsea.
I'd expect not to be at VP in the 55th minute and be 3-0 down to Wigan. Wigan!
Me wanting my club back is for the players to care about playing for us, a manager to show balls and to know what he is doing. If it isnt working then the guys in charge to relieve him and bring the next one in.
I want the club to tell the fans about the plan they have for AVFC and to communicate with us. I want the club to know when the fans arent happy and to do something about it.
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You want your team to be doing better. There's nothing wrong with that - as I keep saying, it's what every supporter in the word wants but you still haven't said anything about how it's going to happen.
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You want your team to be doing better. There's nothing wrong with that - as I keep saying, it's what every supporter in the word wants but you still haven't said anything about how it's going to happen.
Persuading the chairman to stop running the club on a bloody shoestring would be a start.
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I don't know if it's happened yet but it should. Have a short list drawn up of targets to take over should things get worse or continue along the same path.
If the manager is 100% bullet proof no matter what then how is that a healthy situation for the club to be in.
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Without wishing to piss on everyone chips, I am really struggling with this concept of wanting the club back and its key goal. It’s a known fact that Lerner wants to sell up and it’s a known fact that until he does we are totally and utterly stuck in limbo. Given that he is going to spend the bare minimum until such time as we can be sold, I simply fail to see how a protest or indeed any other action about wanting our club back would be beneficial. Surely it’s a fact that until we get a buyer for the club, no matter how loud we scream and shout, nothing whatsoever will change. It’s a horrible and totally unpalatable truth, but it’s where we are right now.
As regards Lambert, as I pointed out yesterday, he’s been a total and utter letdown, even though the sentiment for hiring him was sound. It’s obvious that we should be in a better position than where we are, but to me it’s also equally obvious that given the paucity of funds and a great reluctance to spend any more on payoffs (see above), we are stuck with him for at least this season. I genuinely believe that the aim of the club is to maintain the status quo until such time as a buyer is in the offing. Up to now, Lambert has just managed to achieve this (just) and has ticked all of Lerner’s requirements.
I’ve said before, that I firmly believe that the club has provisions in place already for a relegation, as the risk of us going down is simply too high to ignore. Little has been done to arrest the declining crowds and I suspect an even greater decline would also prompt a change in tack. Bottom line is that the infrastructure is in place, the support base remains there and would almost certainly come back in the event of a new owner, so why rock the boat. As a fan it’s extremely hard to write this, as it goes against every principle of a football club and is painful for the club I love. I suspect that Lerner has long stopped caring though about the state of play on the field and has simply instructed his advisors to sell up and keep a steady ship at minimum cost until it’s done.
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You want your team to be doing better. There's nothing wrong with that - as I keep saying, it's what every supporter in the word wants but you still haven't said anything about how it's going to happen.
Persuading the chairman to stop running the club on a bloody shoestring would be a start.
How?
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You want your team to be doing better. There's nothing wrong with that - as I keep saying, it's what every supporter in the word wants but you still haven't said anything about how it's going to happen.
Persuading the chairman to stop running the club on a bloody shoestring would be a start.
How?
Indeed, if Lerner is desperate to sell us and has lost all interest in us, why would he spend more money? A shoestring is surely all we can expect until he is gone.
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You want your team to be doing better. There's nothing wrong with that - as I keep saying, it's what every supporter in the word wants but you still haven't said anything about how it's going to happen.
Persuading the chairman to stop running the club on a bloody shoestring would be a start.
How?
By protesting.
It's better than sitting there doing nothing. Even if it doesn't work at least we've bloody tried.
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You want your team to be doing better. There's nothing wrong with that - as I keep saying, it's what every supporter in the word wants but you still haven't said anything about how it's going to happen.
Persuading the chairman to stop running the club on a bloody shoestring would be a start.
How?
By protesting.
It's better than sitting there doing nothing. Even if it doesn't work at least we've bloody tried.
For some reason that rallying call put me in mind of Gene Hackman in The Posiedon Adventure.
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You want your team to be doing better. There's nothing wrong with that - as I keep saying, it's what every supporter in the word wants but you still haven't said anything about how it's going to happen.
Persuading the chairman to stop running the club on a bloody shoestring would be a start.
How?
By protesting.
It's better than sitting there doing nothing. Even if it doesn't work at least we've bloody tried.
For some reason that rallying call put me in mind of Gene Hackman in The Posiedon Adventure.
Yeah, from one sinking ship to another.
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You want your team to be doing better. There's nothing wrong with that - as I keep saying, it's what every supporter in the word wants but you still haven't said anything about how it's going to happen.
Persuading the chairman to stop running the club on a bloody shoestring would be a start.
How?
By protesting.
It's better than sitting there doing nothing. Even if it doesn't work at least we've bloody tried.
Will you be joining in the protest on Saturday out of interest?
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Without wishing to piss on everyone chips, I am really struggling with this concept of wanting the club back and its key goal. It’s a known fact that Lerner wants to sell up and it’s a known fact that until he does we are totally and utterly stuck in limbo. Given that he is going to spend the bare minimum until such time as we can be sold, I simply fail to see how a protest or indeed any other action about wanting our club back would be beneficial. Surely it’s a fact that until we get a buyer for the club, no matter how loud we scream and shout, nothing whatsoever will change. It’s a horrible and totally unpalatable truth, but it’s where we are right now.
As regards Lambert, as I pointed out yesterday, he’s been a total and utter letdown, even though the sentiment for hiring him was sound. It’s obvious that we should be in a better position than where we are, but to me it’s also equally obvious that given the paucity of funds and a great reluctance to spend any more on payoffs (see above), we are stuck with him for at least this season. I genuinely believe that the aim of the club is to maintain the status quo until such time as a buyer is in the offing. Up to now, Lambert has just managed to achieve this (just) and has ticked all of Lerner’s requirements.
I’ve said before, that I firmly believe that the club has provisions in place already for a relegation, as the risk of us going down is simply too high to ignore. Little has been done to arrest the declining crowds and I suspect an even greater decline would also prompt a change in tack. Bottom line is that the infrastructure is in place, the support base remains there and would almost certainly come back in the event of a new owner, so why rock the boat. As a fan it’s extremely hard to write this, as it goes against every principle of a football club and is painful for the club I love. I suspect that Lerner has long stopped caring though about the state of play on the field and has simply instructed his advisors to sell up and keep a steady ship at minimum cost until it’s done.
By the fans instigating CHANGE (of manager) through protest AFTER the game, online through social media, letters, emails to the club, petitions, banners, contacting the press, blogs, Radio WM phone ins, Birmingham Mail poll etc.
The Aston Villa fans dont want Paul Lambert in charge anymore. Give the fans what they want. They cant keep ignoring us.
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You want your team to be doing better. There's nothing wrong with that - as I keep saying, it's what every supporter in the word wants but you still haven't said anything about how it's going to happen.
Persuading the chairman to stop running the club on a bloody shoestring would be a start.
How?
By protesting.
It's better than sitting there doing nothing. Even if it doesn't work at least we've bloody tried.
Will you be joining in the protest on Saturday out of interest?
Yeah I'll be doing the 8 minute thing. At the very least it'll register the fans disgust at the way this club has been plunged into decline over the last 5 seasons. It's about time we stood up to be counted.
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I personally don't get how anyone can keep expecting a chairman to keep splashing the kind of cash that Lerner did when he first joined. I'm glad we're not paying £6m for the average likes of Sidwell and Luke Young anymore. It had to stop at some point.
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I personally don't get how anyone can keep expecting a chairman to keep splashing the kind of cash that Lerner did when he first joined. I'm glad we're not paying £6m for the average likes of Sidwell and Luke Young anymore. It had to stop at some point.
Damn right, O’Neill nearly bankrupted us and I would be intrigued to know how close we came to catastrophe once the reality kicked in of our costs vs revenue.
The argument has always been that it is the speed at which Lerner pulled the brake that hurt us so much. Whilst from an outsiders point of view, it clearly was drastic, I can’t help wondering in hindsight if this decision was taken in the wake of some dire predictions.
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I personally don't get how anyone can keep expecting a chairman to keep splashing the kind of cash that Lerner did when he first joined. I'm glad we're not paying £6m for the average likes of Sidwell and Luke Young anymore. It had to stop at some point.
Damn right, O’Neill nearly bankrupted us and I would be intrigued to know how close we came to catastrophe once the reality kicked in of our costs vs revenue.
The argument has always been that it is the speed at which Lerner pulled the brake that hurt us so much. Whilst from an outsiders point of view, it clearly was drastic, I can’t help wondering in hindsight if this decision was taken in the wake of some dire predictions.
I'm sure Risso and the other financial bods on here will correct me but at one point we were making annual losses of £50m and were in debt to Randy for about £120m. For a company turning over about £80m at the time it was financial suicide without top 4.
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Who's to blame ?
Everyone that went to Norwich on the last day of the season, you know who you are.
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Yeah, we crucified Doug for years, for not having a speculate to accumulate policy. As has been said many times before, Randy was very, very close to breaking through that closed shop of the top four in his first three years. For whatever reason it didn't come off and now, in a similar way to Leeds a few years back, we have to pay the price. I don't really hold any malice to the owner for that, he tried and it failed. Shit happens.
Not that he's beyond criticism though, because as far as I'm concerned, it's the manager that's come up short and my real problem is with the men in power not acting (I'm assuming through misguided loyalty as the statistics cannot be argued against) by sacking him while they had the chance and allowing the two best available candidates to toddle off into other jobs.
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Yeah, we crucified Doug for years, for not having a speculate to accumulate policy. As has been said many times before, Randy was very, very close to breaking through that closed shop of the top four in his first three years. For whatever reason it didn't come off and now, in a similar way to Leeds a few years back, we have to pay the price. I don't really hold any malice to the owner for that, he tried and it failed. Shit happens.
Not that he's beyond criticism though, because as far as I'm concerned, it's the manager that's come up short and my real problem is with the men in power not acting (I'm assuming through misguided loyalty as the statistics cannot be argued against) by sacking him while they had the chance and allowing the two best available candidates to toddle off into other jobs.
Two best candidates? I'm guessing Pulis but struggling for the other. Pardew?
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Moyes was the other. Whether he'd have been interested I wouldn't like to say.
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Who's to blame ?
Everyone that went to Norwich on the last day of the season, you know who you are.
I was too drunk to remember, so I'm exempt from blame.
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Moyes was the other. Whether he'd have been interested I wouldn't like to say.
I think he would have been. I'm not sure he is suited to working abroad.
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Do the words ' Ad nauseam ' mean anything to you guys ?.....Godzvilla!
( A discussion that has continued so long that it has continued "to [the point of] nausea" ) .
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any Lambert thread will go on until he's gone
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any Lambert thread will go on until he's gone
It is what he would want.
'We go again.'
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Do the words ' Ad nauseam ' mean anything to you guys ?
I think we were shouting it a lot when we were protesting against Ads and his mismanagement of the football club.