Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Ivo Stas on January 10, 2015, 05:28:27 PM

Title: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: Ivo Stas on January 10, 2015, 05:28:27 PM
I have a suspicion that Ian Culverhouse was the brains behind the Lambert operation and that we have noticeably declined since his dismissal. My theory is based thus:

1) I think that Ian Culverhouse (and Karsa) only teamed up with Lambert at Colchester (and followed him to Norwich). Prior to Colchester, Lambert (I believe) had a pretty poor record as a manager (certainly he resigned from both Livingstone and Wycombe).

2) If I remember correctly, Culverhouse was still assistant manager for our last good performance (the 1-0 home win over Chelsea) and since he left we have been woeful.

3) Whilst Culverhouse was here, we did have a clear tactical approach - direct counterattacking football that didn't always work very well but, when Benteke or Kozak were fit, sometimes did. Since he left I had no idea what our tactics were until Lambert suddenly switched to playing a possession-based passing-out-from-the-back game after, apparently, visiting Guardiola at Bayern and basically trying to copy what he saw there. Which in my opinion has made us worse results-wise (if a bit prettier on the eye).

4) I'm sure I read Lambert saying in the early days, when we were buying young players from the lower leagues, that Culverhouse was the driving force behind signing Westwood. Certainly, this summer, the approach changed completely to buying aging crocks instead.

It staggered me at the time that Lambert would let his two assistants (Culverhouse and Karsa) be forced out. Can you imagine Martin O'Neill letting the players choose his staff? Personally, I think, if their behaviour was so reprehensible, that he should have taken responsibility and resigned. After all, it wasn't one individual but both his assistants. (And now, after Roy Keane also went, I wonder if there is too much player-power going on.)

Anyhow, I think Culverhouse may have been the backseat driver and now Lambert is just going around in circles lost.

Who wants to shoot my theory down..?
Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: Rudy65 on January 10, 2015, 05:32:29 PM
Given we were crap when Culverhouse was here I fail to see any logic to your views
Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: Ger Regan on January 10, 2015, 05:33:06 PM
I don't know, that theory relies on everything being fine before that Chelsea game, when it wasn't. We've also had some decent results since then. I really don't think there's any one reason why we are in the situation we find ourselves, either.
Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: N'ZMAV on January 10, 2015, 05:34:41 PM
Or how about this for a theory - we was only any good under Lambert when Sylla was in the team, at the end of his first season. ;)
Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 10, 2015, 05:34:43 PM
Let's face it, we were dire when Culverhouse was here too.
Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: N'ZMAV on January 10, 2015, 05:36:30 PM
Shit then, shit now, shit always. Lambert is consistent.
Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: dekko on January 10, 2015, 05:36:34 PM
Or how about this for a theory - we was only any good under Lambert when Sylla was in the team, at the end of his first season. ;)

Bring him back, make him player manager!
Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: Ivo Stas on January 10, 2015, 05:55:12 PM
I'm sticking to my guns. I'm not a fan of Culverhouse and Karsa but when they were here at least I knew what we were trying to do (i.e. build a "young and hungry" team and play Martin-O'Neill-style counterattacking football). In our first season, we were both hot and cold. In the second, we struggled due to injuries to Benteke and Kozak. Yes, we were often dire but at least I could see a plan. Since Culverhouse and Karsa left, I have no idea what we are trying to do. My point being that Lambert was part of a team and when two-thirds of that team left, he should have gone too.
Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: mr woo on January 10, 2015, 06:56:10 PM
I recall Norwich fans saying that Culverhouse was the brains of the operation right from the time it became clear Lambert was leaving them to come to us. The set up they had meant Culverhouse took training and worked on tactics while Lambert turned up on matchless and did a bit of tub thumping.

The point about us being crap while Culverhouse was here is a valid one, but if things are structured as above then surely the equation suggests that Lambert - minus a proven coaching team - equals....well.....pretty much fuck all.
Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: levico on January 10, 2015, 07:39:53 PM
What is the f***ing point of this thread?

Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: Monty on January 10, 2015, 07:42:26 PM
I think it's a good theory, and one which shows how bad things are. Culverhouse was indeed the brains of the operation - and he's an idiot.
Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: saunders_heroes on January 10, 2015, 07:44:03 PM
We've got enough on our plate without making up nonsense like this.
Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: Ian. on January 10, 2015, 07:48:17 PM
Jesus! If he was the brains before and going by your theory, we are well and truely doomed now.
Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: silhillvilla on January 10, 2015, 07:49:15 PM
We were shit with culverhouse too.
Silly theory.
Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: Ivo Stas on January 10, 2015, 09:14:13 PM
Quote
What is the f***ing point of this thread?

My point is this:

We hired Lambert-Culverhouse-Karsa on the basis that their success at Colchester and (especially) Norwich qualified them to take on the job of managing Aston Villa. They put in place a plan (signing young players and playing on the break), tried it for a couple of years, it didn't work so we sacked them. As per standard practice.

But, wait a moment, rewind there. We didn't sack them. We sacked two-thirds of them. And kept Lambert who, in my opinion, had the least input and has no managerial success on his own. So, in effect, we have gone into this season with a rookie manager who is making it up as he goes along. Hence first time he is exposed to someone else's different philosophy (Guardiola's during a visit to Bayern), he suddenly changes our whole style of play mid-season. And that is something unprecedented, in my opinion. For instance, I remember Houllier refusing to change the way (zonal or man-to-man) we defended corners mid-season, preferring to imbed new ideas during pre-season.

So the point is not to simply say "Lambert is crap" but to analyse why has he been such a disappointment. And this is my theory. Without Culverhouse and Karsa to set the tactics, he has simply poached the Bayern Munich philosophy without understanding about the "move" in pass-and-move.

In my opinion, the Aston Villa job should always go to a proven experienced manager, never a rookie.
Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: silhillvilla on January 10, 2015, 09:16:27 PM
It's depressing enough reading about lambert
I really just want to erase culverhouse and the other idiot from my memory
Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: Rudy65 on January 10, 2015, 09:22:53 PM
Quote
What is the f***ing point of this thread?

My point is this:

We hired Lambert-Culverhouse-Karsa on the basis that their success at Colchester and (especially) Norwich qualified them to take on the job of managing Aston Villa. They put in place a plan (signing young players and playing on the break), tried it for a couple of years, it didn't work so we sacked them. As per standard practice.

But, wait a moment, rewind there. We didn't sack them. We sacked two-thirds of them. And kept Lambert who, in my opinion, had the least input and has no managerial success on his own. So, in effect, we have gone into this season with a rookie manager who is making it up as he goes along. Hence first time he is exposed to someone else's different philosophy (Guardiola's during a visit to Bayern), he suddenly changes our whole style of play mid-season. And that is something unprecedented, in my opinion. For instance, I remember Houllier refusing to change the way (zonal or man-to-man) we defended corners mid-season, preferring to imbed new ideas during pre-season.

So the point is not to simply say "Lambert is crap" but to analyse why has he been such a disappointment. And this is my theory. Without Culverhouse and Karsa to set the tactics, he has simply poached the Bayern Munich philosophy without understanding about the "move" in pass-and-move.

In my opinion, the Aston Villa job should always go to a proven experienced manager, never a rookie.

Pointless thread. We need to move forward not look back on the likes of Culverhouse who will be totally forgotten  very quickly
Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: adrenachrome on January 10, 2015, 09:30:09 PM
Quite a few Norwich fans hold the view expressed in the OP. I remember somebody posting a link in this forum very early on in PL's tenure.

Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: b23 on January 10, 2015, 09:39:11 PM
The last time i posted about those two, the internet nearly melted.

Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: Des Little on January 10, 2015, 09:42:14 PM
Horseshit. Lambert out.
Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: dcdavecollett on January 10, 2015, 10:33:07 PM
I seem to recall Lambert taking Wycombe to the LC SF while he was there.

That doesn't sound like failure to me.
Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: Des Little on January 10, 2015, 11:46:25 PM
Lambert has been a total and utter failure as our manager, and that's what matters. Time to sling it.
Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: KevinGage on January 10, 2015, 11:56:00 PM
A part of me died the day we ditched Culverhouse.

A prophet is never recognised in his own land.

Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: mark west on January 11, 2015, 12:02:17 AM
Lambert has been a total and utter failure as our manager, and that's what matters. Time to sling it.

Good point, Des. Straight to the point. Lambert must go. He must be our worst ever manager.
Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: ozzjim on January 11, 2015, 12:12:23 AM
To have not appointed an assistant is very strange. Very. Especially if we are struggling for creativity, a really top coach in as assistant might actually help matters!
Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: mr underhill on January 11, 2015, 07:09:45 AM
but the underlying problem will remain. The only answer now is to take the hard decision and sack him; Randy's got to wake up to the fact that the Lambert love-in hasn't suddenly stopped working, but rather it's never worked, and never will.
Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: Damo70 on January 11, 2015, 11:04:18 AM
I seem to recall Lambert taking Wycombe to the LC SF while he was there.

That doesn't sound like failure to me.

On that basis we should appoint Phil Parkinson, Dave Smith, Lawrie Sanchez or Nigel Clough.
Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: dcdavecollett on January 11, 2015, 10:40:53 PM
Not really sure why you've posted that.

I was just pointing out that most people would regard a fourth division team reaching that stage of a major competition as a fine achievement. Especially for a manager lacking his 'special' coaches.
Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: frankmosswasmyuncle on January 11, 2015, 10:51:27 PM
I seem to recall Lambert taking Wycombe to the LC SF while he was there.

That doesn't sound like failure to me.

On that basis we should appoint Phil Parkinson, Dave Smith, Lawrie Sanchez or Nigel Clough.
Management by committee. (Worked in the old days!!! ;-))
Perhaps we make the most of our money and play them too?

Couldn't do much worse than the shite we turn out most games.
Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: Small Rodent on January 11, 2015, 11:04:21 PM
Wouldn't it have been easier to have spentvall those words and imagination writing a Sci-Fi short story?
Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: adrenachrome on January 11, 2015, 11:41:16 PM
Easier but no more useful.
Title: Re: The Culverhouse theory
Post by: Pat McMahon on January 11, 2015, 11:43:40 PM
I seem to recall Lambert taking Wycombe to the LC SF while he was there.

That doesn't sound like failure to me.

On that basis we should appoint Phil Parkinson, Dave Smith, Lawrie Sanchez or Nigel Clough.

Not Phil Parkinson. He lost at Villa Park.
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