Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Dave on December 26, 2014, 04:53:57 PM
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Disappointing result, but we didn't play particularly badly.
Poor refereeing, 1-1 would probably have been a fair result.
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Felt we deserved a point to be fair
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It's all just going round in ever-decreasing circles isn't it? What's the bladdy point..
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Crying out for that number 10, a composed player who looks forward and picks out Benteke with some finesse.
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Deserved a point.
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Oh fuck off, Villa.
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Typical Boxing Day.
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same old, same old. We just don't do boxing days do we .
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Merry fuckin Xmas. Just cannot string a sequence of results together under lambert.
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Plucky losers eventually get relegated. We have find a way to score and win.
Gabby and Cleverley were abysmal.
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We have played a lot worse this season.Unlucky not to get a point.
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No quality in the last third, Gabby, Weimann just not good enough.
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Deserved a result I thought. Just lacking that bit of quality in the final third still. A year ago it was 27% possession at home to Swansea, today it was 57% away.
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2 wins in 14 games. Failed to score in 50% of our games. Bored of Lambert. Bored of listening to excuses for him. We passed the ball a bit today, but we are where we should have been 2 years ago under him, not just discovering a new system, called football.
It's shit under him.
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We played really well at times against a side that have been playing this way for along time, buying players and employing coaches to try and master it. At times we completely outplayed Swansea. In the end what has let us down is the all elusive creative talent in midfield and effect movement from our forwards. That said, Fabianski pulled off some very good saves from Benteke and Gabby. 1-1 would have been the right result.
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The first half was abysmal - wasted playing a stupid formation that no sensible manage should ever countenance. But I thought we played really well in the second half. Grealish and Weimann both caused Swansea problems with some good running.
We were unlucky not to get something, but it's getting tiresome watching Lambert having to correct tactical mistakes so blindingly obvious that they should never have been made in the first place.
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Plucky losers eventually get relegated. We have find a way to score and win.
Gabby and Cleverley were abysmal.
The pair need to be dropped
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11 goals in 18 league games.
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Created our best chances in the first 2 minutes of injury time. Sums our season up; obvious lack of creativity and flair, no goals from midfield because they don't get in the box enough. I still remember Lambert claiming our team were full of goals with players like Richardson and N'Zogbia. There's not enough goals in Weimann and Gabby let alone our midfield.
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Not good enough. No Gabby next game thank god, brainless player,
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Crying out for that number 10, a composed player who looks forward and picks out Benteke with some finesse.
It'd be interesting to see Joe Cole and Benteke get a run of games together.
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Plucky losers eventually get relegated. We have find a way to score and win.
Gabby and Cleverley were abysmal.
The pair need to be dropped
To be replaced by who?
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Against the Olbion Berahino was the difference, today Sigurdsson was the difference.Until we buy a creative player, who can committ, go past players, or pick a pass in the final 1/3rd, then we are not going to beat teams we should.
Where was Gabby playing 2nd half?, far too deep for me, and CB too isolated.
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Deserved a result I thought. Just lacking that bit of quality in the final third still. A year ago it was 27% possession at home to Swansea, today it was 57% away.
Last year we got a point and this a big fat zero. Possession doesn't win prizes.
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Against the Olbion Berahino was the difference, today Sigurdsson was the difference.Until we buy a creative player, who can committ, go past players, or pick a pass in the final 1/3rd, then we are not going to beat teams we should.
Where was Gabby playing 2nd half?, far too deep for me, and CB too isolated.
I think Grealish can do that job. At the end there, he was committing Swansea defenders and getting into the box with the ball at his feet. He needs much more match experience, but he's got the ability to control the ball with his head up.
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Deserved a result I thought. Just lacking that bit of quality in the final third still. A year ago it was 27% possession at home to Swansea, today it was 57% away.
Last year we got a point and this a big fat zero. Possession doesn't win prizes.
And yet it was used as a stick to beat the team and manager.
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Not good enough. No Gabby next game thank god, brainless player,
Scored three in his last four games against Sunderland, though - two of them the winner at the Stadium of Light.
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Thought we deserved at least a point but were robbed by a shocking refereeing decision and some great saves at the death. How the shove on Gabby by Williams wasn't a penalty and a red card I just can't fathom.
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Deserved a result I thought. Just lacking that bit of quality in the final third still. A year ago it was 27% possession at home to Swansea, today it was 57% away.
Last year we got a point and this a big fat zero. Possession doesn't win prizes.
And yet it was used as a stick to beat the team and manager.
Rightly or wrongly, I'd rather be sitting here discussing a 27% draw today than a defeat.
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Deserved a point.
Frustrating, not least because of the result but as every time we threaten to build up a head of steam, we take a step backwards again.
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Disappointing but fairly standard.
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This is just heartbreaking to see this great club being slowly strangled to death. Just get lost Lambert
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11 goals in 18 league games.
Truly pathetic.
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Not good enough. No Gabby next game thank god, brainless player,
Scored three in his last four games against Sunderland, though - two of them the winner at the Stadium of Light.
Didn't he do well against Swansea recently? Didn't see that ensuring a great performance today. Gabby has forgotten what made him look half decent in the first place. When he's not running down the channels or running into space you might as well stick a sack of Maris Piper in his shirt.
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A very frustrating result. It could be argued two free kicks were the difference, had Benteke's gone in and they had missed theirs...but there's no point musing on the what ifs. Overall,it was a good performance against a decent side. Let's get three points next game.
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This is just heartbreaking to see this great club being slowly strangled to death. Just get lost Lambert
But we know that's not going to happen any time soon, Lerner is the problem, Lambert is just a symptom of his shocking running of the club.
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Deserved a result I thought. Just lacking that bit of quality in the final third still. A year ago it was 27% possession at home to Swansea, today it was 57% away.
Rightly or wrongly, I'd rather be sitting here discussing a 27% draw today than a defeat.
Last year we got a point and this a big fat zero. Possession doesn't win prizes.
And yet it was used as a stick to beat the team and manager.
Would you? Because we have all seen that playing 27% possession is very limited in the success it brings. We can win games with that approach but giving the ball to our opponents 70% of the time ends up in one place long term. I would much rather lose games trying to dominate possession because the long term benefits will be evident by seasons end. Now we need a couple of players that will enhance this new approach. Our failure today was because after Sanchez and Delph the midfield and front line is weak as a unit. Benteke cannot get the service he needs so we must address that.
I am never going to hammer the manager for trying to play a style that we all wanted to see. We will improve and we must never go back to the hit and hope nonsense we had become accustomed to.
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This is just heartbreaking to see this great club being slowly strangled to death. Just get lost Lambert
No over-reaction there at all.
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Deserved a result I thought. Just lacking that bit of quality in the final third still. A year ago it was 27% possession at home to Swansea, today it was 57% away.
Last year we got a point and this a big fat zero. Possession doesn't win prizes.
And yet it was used as a stick to beat the team and manager.
For me there's a pattern of development.
Stage one - able to retain the ball better and have much better possession stats (finally signs of us being here)
Stage two - continued good possession stats but start creating more chances with it
Stage three - good possession, creating more chances and goals not a problem (where you start looking a good side and in with a shout of things like cups, Europe etc.)
Beyond that, it's the same but with continuing degrees of quality
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Benteke. Very sloppy today, moans too much
Cleverley. What does he do awful.
Delph. Excellent.
Sanchez. Good but too casual lost the ball a few times.
Hutton. A few mistakes overall good.
Clark. Solid, he was good going forward as well.
Vlaar. Good.
Okore. Dodgy first 45 redeemed himself in the second.
Gabby. Get rid awful.
Cissokho. Defended ok but he cannot cross to save his life.
Guzan. At fault for the goal by letting Bony's push affect his judgement.
Weimann. Looked lively, we were better with him on.
Grealish. Made some good movement and linked up well for 10 or so mins.
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Keeping possession and making it profitable will only happen with players better than we have. We have very few players that commit the opposition or can pick a decisive pass. 70% possession between the defenders achieves nothing.
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Not good enough. No Gabby next game thank god, brainless player,
Scored three in his last four games against Sunderland, though - two of them the winner at the Stadium of Light.
I think we'll score maybe 2 or more without him on Sunday.
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11 goals in 18 league games.
Truly pathetic.
Yep , absolute shite. Pretty much half a season gone and we've scored 11 goals .
Quite honestly , It's absolutely atrocious.
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First half was shit. Second half less so but one of those games where we never looked like scoring despite long periods of domination. Okore was all over the place. On the plus side they largely adapted well to the conditions and finally carved a couple of good chances out at the death but the inability to string decent performances together continues to frustrate.
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11 goals in 18 league games.
Truly pathetic.
Yep , absolute shite. Pretty much half a season gone and we've scored 11 goals .
Quite honestly , It's absolutely atrocious.
And why I can not understand why people want to persevere with this Manager.
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Plucky losers eventually get relegated. We have find a way to score and win.
Gabby and Cleverley were abysmal.
The pair need to be dropped
To be replaced by who?
Maybe the two players that looked the most likely to score in the last game. Bacuna and N'Zogbia.
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The amount of stupid bookings we are picking up are more of a worry for me than the performance.
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11 goals in 18 league games.
Truly pathetic.
Yep , absolute shite. Pretty much half a season gone and we've scored 11 goals .
Quite honestly , It's absolutely atrocious.
Scored about the same in an 18 game run under BFR.
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We had 2 good minutes in injury time, plenty of endeavour but ultimately nowhere near good enough.
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Not good enough. No Gabby next game thank god, brainless player,
Scored three in his last four games against Sunderland, though - two of them the winner at the Stadium of Light.
I think we'll score maybe 2 or more without him on Sunday.
Us score 2? Not going to happen, very rarely does. To recap, that has happened 3 times in 34 games. Just digest that for a bit. Truly fucking hopeless.
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Predictable sadly . As in most games we leave it the last few minutes to throw men forward looking to score. 11 goals in 19 league and cup matches is pathetic
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PWS re BFR , I didn't realise that, still that has nothing to do with the here and now and the ghastly shite lambert is serving up.
For Sunday is like Robbo in for Gabby, Weimann for Cleverly and Grealish for Vlaar and go 442
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Not good enough. No Gabby next game thank god, brainless player,
Scored three in his last four games against Sunderland, though - two of them the winner at the Stadium of Light.
I think we'll score maybe 2 or more without him on Sunday.
Maybe this will be the new Lambert strategy, "we have been working on it in training and we are now going to try to score some goals"
Us score 2? Not going to happen, very rarely does. To recap, that has happened 3 times in 34 games. Just digest that for a bit. Truly fucking hopeless.
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Not good enough. No Gabby next game thank god, brainless player,
Scored three in his last four games against Sunderland, though - two of them the winner at the Stadium of Light.
I think we'll score maybe 2 or more without him on Sunday.
Us score 2? Not going to happen, very rarely does. To recap,
that has happened 3 times in 34 games. Just digest that for a bit. Truly fucking hopeless.
I'm aware of that stat as I made a comment about it last match. Totally agree though it's extremely dire.
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It could be worse. I could be sat on a coach for the next 3 hours, after spending the best part of 2 hours being soaked to the skin.
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United game was another in the many false dawns under this manager. He has a good team assembled, but it just isn't happening for him. How many chances does he need to get it right. How long does he need to get the footballing philosophy that he wants into the club. We need change.
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Frustrating today. We deserved a point on balance. Good free kick from them and I am not sure they've done anything else in the game.
We need a link between the midfield and the attack, as we had a lot of the ball and in the end created enough chances to have at least equalised, but with a creative midfielder we would have won that and won it well.
We tried to keep the ball and I have no issue with that, even the playing it short as we eventually would feed it into the midfield. It sometimes looks a bit dicy, but the only time we did knock it long we have it away. Benteke went very close too, but it was pretty even in biblical rain.
I thought we bossed the second half and should have equalised. Our movement and passing was slick and good to see, but when we did get in behind them, which we did a number of times, the final cross wasn't there. The delivery from set pieces wasn't up to it either.
In the end though Fabianski has made two excellent saves and we had them penned in around their own box. Andi was too honest and shouldn't have stayed on his feet, Grealish either, while Bony pushed Benteke at the end.
A frustrating day and I don't think I will dry out until the M5, but despite the loss, I am pleased that we treated the ball with more respect, how our movement is improving off the ball and that we have the opportunity to add some real penetration from the midfield in January.
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On another day Guzan saves the free kick and Benteke or Gabby score their headers and we win. As much as I want Lambert out he's not at fault today, he changed things at half time, we improved. He made subs, we improved. Today was one of those days in football when it just doesn't quite happen. There are lots of positives to take from that game but you only see them if you can get past the increasingly frequent desire to see everything below standard and ignore anything that is good.
Where we really lack as a team are the players who will get into the box after the forwards Far too often is there a ball in the opposition penalty area and our midfield are still 30 yards out. It makes it very easy for defenders who only have two players to worry about. A couple more players arriving in the box would see our goal tally increase.
The last few games have proven we have players that can play football. We need a gaffer that can bring them together and inject a clear plan and system that will see us create and convert chances.
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Nobody is judging lambert on today alone, it's the half season we've endured so far on the back of the crapness of his first 2 seasons.
We need change.
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We need much more creativity in these types of games, Swansea aren't the easiest team to score against and ultimately they're a bit better than us, a top 10 standard team.
Seems like we played o.k but oh for a player of Sigurdsson's guile in our team.
Let's see what the two home games bring and how we look trying to break down the defences. Would love all 6 but think 4 is a more realistic and decent target.
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Having read this thread I think the reaction is a bit surprising. And for clarification, we got smashed 4-1 last season and didn't earn a point.
There is plenty to build on, we are finally playing football as it should be and looking better for it. Everybody knows we're a player or two creatively short and it's important we can get somebody, even a loan to fill the gap.
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We need much more creativity in these types of games, Swansea aren't the easiest team to score against and ultimately they're a bit better than us, a top 10 standard team.
Seems like we played o.k but oh for a player of Sigurdsson's guile in our team.
Let's see what the two home games bring and how we look trying to break down the defences. Would love all 6 but think 4 is a more realistic and decent target.
Sigurdsson would be perfect. Love that Eriksson at Spurs too. Both way out of our transfer league but there are others out there. If nothing else with a bit of money we have found some real gems. Lambert/Fox and co need to find those players before someone else does.
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Since there's little chance of s going down, I'm willing to see what support we get from RL in the market and until Easter to see if this 'new change' can see us take some steps forward. Problem we have is come the summer we could/probably be without Delph, Vlaar and Benteke and we're back to square one unless we get investment.
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Having read this thread I think the reaction is a bit surprising. And for clarification, we got smashed 4-1 last season and didn't earn a point.
There is plenty to build on, we are finally playing football as it should be and looking better for it. Everybody knows we're a player or two creatively short and it's important we can get somebody, even a loan to fill the gap.
Ultimately what we have is a constituent that is tired of losing and staying rational even when there are positives is naturally going to be more difficult for some than others. That said, there were positives today and getting close to 60% possession is one of them. If our models, at least in the short to medium term in Swansea or Southampton then we have to stick to this and not deviate because of a couple of defeats
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We lost the game with the first half tactics and a shocking decision by the referee in the second.
It was boys against men first half as we failed to do anything in their half but credit to Lambert even he saw how poor we were and changed it. Second half we looked a different side and really deserved an equaliser. One thing that continues to bug me is we still refuse to put crosses into the box with any regularity. Towards the end of the game we finally put a string of crosses it and were unlucky not to score from one of them. Once we do it on a more regular basis the goals will come.
I wouldn't put too much blame on Jores, he had little protection second half as Hutton played a far more advanced role, almost as a winger, frequently getting himself in advanced positions. It was a risk worth taking.
Playing Gabby so deep in the first half was a ridiculous decision from Lambert. How did he think we'd ever get players into the box to score. Our best two efforts were from set pieces.
Guzan should have done better for their goal but found himself wrong footed with too much to do. I'd still like to see him control more his 6 yard box. He's becoming very Given-like with his glued to the line approach.
Benteke will come godd but right now, maybe it was the conditions but he'd struggle to trap a bag of cement, very poor control today.
Delighted that the real Delph turned up second half as in the first he was like a lost schoolboy.
Overall, not too disappointed PROVIDED we can learn from today. There are signs we can actually be a good side, equally there are signs we'll remain crap. Sunderland at home is an ideal place to decide on the more positive approach.
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We need much more creativity in these types of games, Swansea aren't the easiest team to score against and ultimately they're a bit better than us, a top 10 standard team.
Seems like we played o.k but oh for a player of Sigurdsson's guile in our team.
Let's see what the two home games bring and how we look trying to break down the defences. Would love all 6 but think 4 is a more realistic and decent target.
Sigurdsson would be perfect. Love that Eriksson at Spurs too. Both way out of our transfer league but there are others out there. If nothing else with a bit of money we have found some real gems. Lambert/Fox and co need to find those players before someone else does.
I guess Sigurdsson was always going to go back to Swansea once they were interested but I'm pretty sure he only cost them 7m so equivilant to what we were going to sign Cleverley for in August before it broke down.
We need more creativity in midfield, not Cleverley. We have enough workhorses in midfield.
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If we're going to play with wing-backs then the three at the back need to be coached into playing the ball amongst themselves somewhere near the half-way line and not across the penalty area. If the opposition presses us into that area then a couple of long balls now and again might make them drop a little deeper.
Whatever system we do play Cleverley seems unable to contribute anything other than running around a bit. Maybe he's content just killing time before his Bosman. (cf Delph and Vlaar). Weimann is played in positions where he's neither fish nor fowl. Gabby looks lost as well.
We're halfway towards the forty points. Clark, Grealish and Guzan continue to boost their potential transfer fees. So Lambert's on top of his brief.
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Another game, another defeat, another clean sheet for the opposition. Standard Lambert result basically. It's been the same story since his first game, sometimes we keep the ball ok, sometimes we go more direct, but the fact is we lose half the time and rarely score however we try to play.
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Since there's little chance of us going down
Really?
5 points off the bottom 3, having scored 11 goals in 18 matches? What would you say if Palace turned us over, reducing that to 2 points?
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We should have got a point today and made the keeper make two good saves at the end, while we got into enough good positions in their box to have done a lot better, with the final ball letting us down. If you think that is anyway similar to West Ham August 2012, then I would disagree strongly.
The progression from there to the new style of play that has been decided upon recently has been anything but linear anyway.
I can understand people being annoyed we lost, I am too and I have really wet shoes to go with it. But these macro sweeping points have nothing to do with a mid-table Villa side actually showing enough ability to out football Swansea at Swansea for a solid 45 minutes. That gives me confidence that there is a future, as long as there is the necessary addition(s) of the attacking players we know we need.
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What good is all that possession if you can't create clear cut chances and put the ball away? Apart from the last couple of minutes, our forward play was terrible. Caster Troy's comment above is spot on.
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I like the way we play now. I hate losing but I would sooner lose playing this way than the old.
Still, merry bloody christmas from Villa and all that.
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I didn't see any of it so I can't say a great deal but i'm surprised he put Cleverley back in. Maybe leaving Weimann in there or giving Grealish a run might have been the better option.
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The possession saw Andi and Hutton get in behind them two or three times, Grealish get in behind them too, but fail to put in the final killer ball. Weimann had the opportunity to pick out three players unmarked inside the six yard box, but gave it straight to Fabianski. That epitomised the frustrations, as we did create clear cut chances, more so than the home side.
We created nothing in August 2012 at West Ham and got deservedly beat. We should have got a point today having played the game correctly, but didn't. Caster Troy is wrong.
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Don't read too much into it. Villa's Boxing Days record is dreadful. Possibly a lack of disciplined focus on Christmas Days with their families.
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I didn't see any of it so I can't say a great deal but i'm surprised he put Cleverley back in. Maybe leaving Weimann in there or giving Grealish a run might have been the better option.
I imagine was to stop our midfield from being overrun which in fairness it wasn't. They didn't create that many chances. But because Cleverley is more a link player than anything more dynamic along with Delph and Sanchez it really lacks any kind of creativity. We looked better in the second with Andi on Delph being told to push forward.
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Talk of possession really is a red herring when the bulk of ours consists of Guzan going backwards to a FB near the corner flag then 45 seconds of nerve jangling short balls around our box followed by the eventual hoof.
We need change.
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Since there's little chance of us going down
Really?
5 points off the bottom 3, having scored 11 goals in 18 matches? What would you say if Palace turned us over, reducing that to 2 points?
We beat enough of the teams around us. 7 points from Burnley, Leicester and Palace for instance.
We will be o.k but really we should be doing better than that now.
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Just great. Yet another season hoping for teams below us to lose instead of those above. Thanks, Paul.
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I don't think that's the case at all. SHQ is right, we aren't going to get relegated and you can look at it two ways; via our own mid table endeavour or by seven or more sides inability to match that level.
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I hope we don't get relegated but I am still hoping those below us lose as we are hardly safe.
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We're not safe yet, but I don't think we will be involved in a relegation battle. We will be above Everton again come Sunday evening.
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Can't understand how we deserved a point. We were piss poor. The only real chances we had were in the injury time. We were second best to every ball.
I cannot believe Villa are fielding inferior team to Swansea year after year and this is seen as acceptable.
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Can't understand how we deserved a point. We were piss poor. The only real chances we had were in the injury time. We were second best to every ball.
I cannot believe Villa are fielding inferior team to Swansea year after year and this is seen as acceptable.
With all due respect what game were you watching?
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Can't understand how we deserved a point. We were piss poor. The only real chances we had were in the injury time. We were second best to every ball.
I cannot believe Villa are fielding inferior team to Swansea year after year and this is seen as acceptable.
The club have chipped away and chipped away and managed to lower expectations to a very low level
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Can't understand how we deserved a point. We were piss poor. The only real chances we had were in the injury time. We were second best to every ball.
I cannot believe Villa are fielding inferior team to Swansea year after year and this is seen as acceptable.
You must have switched off at half-time then. Because we dominated them for most of the second half. There were periods where they couldn't get the ball off us. And this is the amazing Welsh Barcelona we're talking about.
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If you say so, I might have watched a different one. Still didn't see anything of notice until the 90+. I think we are safe, but still think with these players we should be much more confident and surely higher up the table.
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Can't understand how we deserved a point. We were piss poor. The only real chances we had were in the injury time. We were second best to every ball.
I cannot believe Villa are fielding inferior team to Swansea year after year and this is seen as acceptable.
The club have chipped away and chipped away and managed to lower expectations to a very low level
Nobody's said that.
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Can't understand how we deserved a point. We were piss poor. The only real chances we had were in the injury time. We were second best to every ball.
I cannot believe Villa are fielding inferior team to Swansea year after year and this is seen as acceptable.
With all due respect what game were you watching?
The first half and then repeated for 45 minutes is my guess.
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Can't understand how we deserved a point. We were piss poor. The only real chances we had were in the injury time. We were second best to every ball.
I cannot believe Villa are fielding inferior team to Swansea year after year and this is seen as acceptable.
The club have chipped away and chipped away and managed to lower expectations to a very low level
Your posts have chipped away and chipped away and reached the same result.
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Can't understand how we deserved a point. We were piss poor. The only real chances we had were in the injury time. We were second best to every ball.
I cannot believe Villa are fielding inferior team to Swansea year after year and this is seen as acceptable.
With all due respect what game were you watching?
The first half and then repeated for 45 minutes is my guess.
And even in the pretty dreadful first half we still had more meaningful shots than they did.
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Can't understand how we deserved a point. We were piss poor. The only real chances we had were in the injury time. We were second best to every ball.
I cannot believe Villa are fielding inferior team to Swansea year after year and this is seen as acceptable.
With all due respect what game were you watching?
The first half and then repeated for 45 minutes is my guess.
And even in the pretty dreadful first half we still had more meaningful shots than they did.
And I am guessing this wasn't an observation that he made just a short while ago
Second half we looked a different side and really deserved an equaliser.
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:'(
OK. I apologize! My stream must have been different.
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Each to their own. All opinions are valid and welcome.
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Game is of small margins. on another day we would have won this 3 or 4 one. No worries we go again on Sunday.
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Just great. Yet another season hoping for teams below us to lose instead of those above. Thanks, Paul.
There's no chance of us going down. The league table is pretty irrelevant to anybody who isn't in the moneybags four anymore, so at least Lambert has stopped serving up eye-bleedingly boring football and is attempting to make it a bit more palatable.
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We're not safe yet, but I don't think we will be involved in a relegation battle. We will be above Everton again come Sunday evening.
Think Everton will beat Newcastle.
I think that's a good indication for the second half of the season actually. Everton have a better squad than we do but for whatever reason it isn't clicking for them and no one will convince me Newcastle have a better squad than we do so we should be reasonably close to and challenge those two for finishing positions imo.
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We must contrive to cancel next season's Boxing Day fixture if Lambert is in charge - 3 defeats to date and we have yet to score under him.
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The Europa league hasn't helped them. Which makes you wonder sometimes is it worth getting high enough in the table to get into it only for the following seasons league campaign to take a battering. The most nonsensical tournament format ever.
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We must contrive to cancel next season's Boxing Day fixture if Lambert is in charge - 3 defeats to date and we have yet to score under him.
You could pick a 3 game patch out of any part of Lambores era and find we haven't scored to be fair.
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Just great. Yet another season hoping for teams below us to lose instead of those above. Thanks, Paul.
There's no chance of us going down. The league table is pretty irrelevant to anybody who isn't in the moneybags four anymore, so at least Lambert has stopped serving up eye-bleedingly boring football and is attempting to make it a bit more palatable.
There's always a chance and currently still a chance. Hopefully unlikely, though.
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Weimann had time to roll it across to Clark to slide in at the far post. Pretty basic really. He failed absymally and players of that standard hold us back from progressing upwards.
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In my eyes Swansea are a no frills top 10 standard team as they usually have a goal in them and don't concede a huge amount apart from the odd game. They won't trouble the top 6 apart from the occasional match but there aren't 10 better team in this league than them.
As much as I hate to use the phrase "this is the level at which we aspire to be" I would like a season sooner or later where we do what Swansea do.
Never in danger of relegation, always in the top 10 and not too far off the top 6 and play decent football. That to me is the only way we can really progress and get people interested in us again rather than just finishing 15th year in year out and hoping some Oligarch or Middle East consortium will bail us out.
The league position isn't disastrous by any means and we have some winnable fixtures coming up in the next month so there's still an opportunity to do this in the second half of the season. I ain't holding my breath on that though.
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Can't understand how we deserved a point. We were piss poor. The only real chances we had were in the injury time. We were second best to every ball.
I cannot believe Villa are fielding inferior team to Swansea year after year and this is seen as acceptable.
With all due respect what game were you watching?
The first half and then repeated for 45 minutes is my guess.
And even in the pretty dreadful first half we still had more meaningful shots than they did.
We didn't get a shot on target first Half .
And we are still the only PL side after half a season who has failed to score after the 76 min mark.
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I'll take the 2 attempts we had over a couple of on target shots that trickle slowly to the keeper that he can throw his cap on.
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The key is to replace Weimann's role as a creative force with a genuine attacking midfielder. The same for Gabby and N'Zogbia too.
Dyer is a runt of Ashley Young ill with an inability to stay on his feet, but Swansea have three decent wingers/attacking midfielders which with a player like Bony up front, sees them right.
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Can't understand how we deserved a point. We were piss poor. The only real chances we had were in the injury time. We were second best to every ball.
I cannot believe Villa are fielding inferior team to Swansea year after year and this is seen as acceptable.
With all due respect what game were you watching?
The first half and then repeated for 45 minutes is my guess.
And even in the pretty dreadful first half we still had more meaningful shots than they did.
We didn't get a shot on target first Half .
I didn't say that we did. I said that we had more meaningful shots than they did. Which is true.
Gabby and Benteke's very decent shots which both missed by a couple of inches were far better attempts than if we'd had a couple of potshots which dribbled into Fabianski's arms.
Even if the latter would have made your boring statistic look more favourable.
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The most important thing now is how we bounce back v Sunderland and palace . We need a win and a draw minimum.
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Ron Vlaar played very well both halves. Jores was dreadful in the first half but improved in the second half.
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Can't understand how we deserved a point. We were piss poor. The only real chances we had were in the injury time. We were second best to every ball.
I cannot believe Villa are fielding inferior team to Swansea year after year and this is seen as acceptable.
With all due respect what game were you watching?
The first half and then repeated for 45 minutes is my guess.
And even in the pretty dreadful first half we still had more meaningful shots than they did.
We didn't get a shot on target first Half .
I didn't say that we did. I said that we had more meaningful shots than they did. Which is true.
Gabby and Benteke's very decent shots which both missed by a couple of inches were far better attempts than if we'd had a couple of potshots which dribbled into Fabianski's arms.
Even if the latter would have made your boring statistic look more favourable.
More meaningful shots ? What than Sigurdsons ?
Gloss over it if you like but today is another goalless defeat with minimal threat on their goal.
11 in 18 may be boring but it's a fact.
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More meaningful shots ? What than Sigurdsons ?
*checks*
Yep, two is definitely a higher number than one.
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We must contrive to cancel next season's Boxing Day fixture if Lambert is in charge - 3 defeats to date and we have yet to score under him.
What a thoroughly depressing thought, another year with him in charge!
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We must contrive to cancel next season's Boxing Day fixture if Lambert is in charge - 3 defeats to date and we have yet to score under him.
What a thoroughly depressing thought, another year with him in charge!
Contractually it's 4 more minimum.
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Another defeat, another clean sheet for the opposition. Why does the song from the remake of "Annie" spring to mind. The sun will come out tomorrow, bet your bottom dollar. However bad it gets large numbers of us delude ourselves that the worst is over. Can't see it personally.
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More meaningful shots ? What than Sigurdsons ?
*checks*
Yep, two is definitely a higher number than one.
Hang on , so you're saying 2 misses are more "meaningful" than 1 goal ? Not following the logic on that .
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I didn't see the game today but I understand we played reasonably well. But 11 goals from 18 games is piss poor.
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The key is to replace Weimann's role as a creative force with a genuine attacking midfielder. The same for Gabby and N'Zogbia too.
Dyer is a runt of Ashley Young ill with an inability to stay on his feet, but Swansea have three decent wingers/attacking midfielders which with a player like Bony up front, sees them right.
Just having a Sigurdsson in our team would make a world of difference, it really would. They don't all cost 15m either.
Hopefully one day Grealish could be that player but not now.
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More meaningful shots ? What than Sigurdsons ?
*checks*
Yep, two is definitely a higher number than one.
Hang on , so you're saying 2 misses are more "meaningful" than 1 goal ? Not following the logic on that .
No, I'm saying that two shots are more shots than one shot is.
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The key is to replace Weimann's role as a creative force with a genuine attacking midfielder. The same for Gabby and N'Zogbia too.
Dyer is a runt of Ashley Young ill with an inability to stay on his feet, but Swansea have three decent wingers/attacking midfielders which with a player like Bony up front, sees them right.
Just having a Sigurdsson in our team would make a world of difference, it really would. They don't all cost 15m either.
Hopefully one day Grealish could be that player but not now.
Agree.
In fact if we had Sigurdsson, and Benteke had played as many games as Bony has this season, I have little doubt we'd be 6th or 7th now.
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"We've changed the way we play." is his new "We go again."
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Paul Lambert was upbeat following the 1-0 loss to Swansea because of the manner of his team's performance at the Liberty Stadium.
Gylfi Sigurdsson won the game for the hosts with a well-struck 13th minute shot.
Despite the defeat, Villa played cohesive, attractive, attacking football and should have been rewarded after creating several chances after the break.
Andi Weimann fired straight at Lukasz Fabianski when well-placed, Gabby Agbonlahor chipped wide under pressure from Ashley Williams, Christian Benteke had a late header kept out by the keeper and Agbonlahor saw another header scrambled away by the legs of the former Arsenal stopper.
None of the efforts went the way of the visitors but Lambert was positive at full-time.
He said: "I was very pleased with the way we played. I thought we were fantastic the whole game.
"I thought we deserved to take something from the game. I thought we were excellent.
"Coming here, we did to them what they do to most teams.
"We looked the better side. They scored the goal, albeit Brad will probably blame himself.
"But Brad has kept us in games before with massive saves. He's maybe taken a step to his right.
"He will be disappointed with himself. But Brad has been brilliant for me since I have been here.
"Their goalkeeper kept them in the game at the end.
"But I was really happy with how we played.
"We've changed the way we played over the last three or four weeks. There's new things we're working on. The lads have been really good with it, they really have.
"It's something I have asked them to do and they have been excellent at it. They are comfortable with it. The way we are playing is really, really pleasing at the minute.
"The lads are enjoying the way they play. They are enjoying their football, the way we have asked them to do it.
"Sometimes you come off the pitch really disappointed because you haven't played well. But today I am proud of them because of the way they have played.
"I am disappointed to lose the game but I was proud of the way they played."
Lambert pointed to Fabianski's late stopping masterclass as the reason for the barren haul heading back to B6.
He continued: "It was a terrific save from Christian - and then just after that.
"Christian did everything with the header. He put it across the goal. The keeper made the save - and he made another one with his foot. But that's his job."
Agbonlahor was pleading for a penalty as he went flying under the heavy challenge of Williams as the second period saw continued pressure from the claret and blues.
Lambert admitted it could have been given.
Unfortunately, to make matters worse - due to a late booking - Agbonlahor will now miss the Sunderland game on Sunderland.
He added: "I have not seen it on the re-run. I thought Gabby's game today was excellent.
"He was causing them all sort of problems. Have I seen them given? Yes possibly. But I have also seen them not given.
"It's a hard call for the referee. But Gabby did well to get in that position.
"Losing Gabby for the next game is a blow because he's playing well. Today he was an absolute handful. You just have to take it."
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"We've changed the way we play." is his new "We go again."
Is it not accurate of him to have said that?
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All so predictable.
Slice and dice whatever way 11 goals in the League is pitiful.
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Lambert would espouse the proliferation of extra ice available for drinks in the event he steered the Titanic to the Iceberg.
Deluded.
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"We've changed the way we play." is his new "We go again."
Is it not accurate of him to have said that?
It also somewhat of another excuse. Now we aren't fully coherent because it's a new style of playing that will take time. Then something else will come along with him that will take time, like all the other things before.
Anything to deflect away from the fact his results are shit and this is a results business. Jam tomorrow.
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"It's something I have asked them to do and they have been excellent at it. They are comfortable with it. The way we are playing is really, really pleasing at the minute.
He's asked professional footballers to play football. Whatever next asking the physio to nurse injuries.
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Paul Lambert was upbeat following the loss to *********because of the manner of his team's performance at the *********
Lambert was positive at full-time.
He said: "I was very pleased with the way we played. I thought we were fantastic the whole game.
"I thought we deserved to take something from the game. I thought we were excellent.
"We looked the better side.
"But I was really happy with how we played.
" The lads have been really good with it, they really have.
" The way we are playing is really, really pleasing at the minute"
" But today I am proud of them because of the way they have played.
"I am disappointed to lose the game but I was proud of the way they played"
He added: "I thought Gabby's game today was excellent.
"Today he was an absolute handful. "
Same comments every game and every loss and there are plenty of those with Lambert in charge.
Just fill in the ******* and enter whichever team that beats us and We go again.
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"We've changed the way we play." is his new "We go again."
Is it not accurate of him to have said that?
It also somewhat of another excuse. Now we aren't fully coherent because it's a new style of playing that will take time. Then something else will come along with him that will take time, like all the other things before.
Anything to deflect away from the fact his results are shit and this is a results business. Jam tomorrow.
It's another stick to beat him with. We all wanted to see a better style of football and we are starting to see it. Let's not be critical of him for doing that. You can argue that it took far too long to arrive. That can't be contested and the football for much of that time was horrible. But we the change in style and the possession stats which was all the talk for ages, but we don't have the play in the final third to go with it. The creative piece is a huge miss on his part be with this style of play or anything else he has tried. That simply must be addressed to make best use of the possession stat.
If anyone expected a change in style to automatically generate flowing football and buckets of goals then that's deluded. But if he is going to be manager then we may as play attractive football as we seek to address the other areas that need improving.
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His whole 'new way of playing' bollocks makes me laugh.
So, he' s had some sort of fucking epiphany and has hit upon a whole new way of playing?
It might be nice when it starts to bring results.
It's not difficult, lots of us have been telling him answer for ages.
Get some frigging width in the team.
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He has been a manager for long enough to work out that passing the football to a team mate is not a bad idea.
I think this new way of playing is just bull shit. What the hell has he been doing the last 2 1/2 years?
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His whole 'new way of playing' bollocks makes me laugh.
So, he' s had some sort of fucking epiphany and has hit upon a whole new way of playing?
It might be nice when it starts to bring results.
It's not difficult, lots of us have been telling him answer for ages.
Get some frigging width in the team.
Could not agree more, the "chancer" label could not be more accurate.
He does not have a clue yet some people are fooled by this rubbish.
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He's right. I am a lot more confident going into the next game following this defeat at Swansea, than I was after last seasons mauling there. Even more so than the 2-2 draw where, without hyperbole, we could have found ourselves 5 down in the first half.
We are attacking players short, but it was pleasing to see us play decent football. Even without them, we still should have earnt a point.
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His whole 'new way of playing' bollocks makes me laugh.
So, he' s had some sort of fucking epiphany and has hit upon a whole new way of playing?
It might be nice when it starts to bring results.
It's not difficult, lots of us have been telling him answer for ages.
Get some frigging width in the team.
Could not agree more, the "chancer" label could not be more accurate.
He does not have a clue yet some people are fooled by this rubbish.
I'm sure they all bow down to your superior knowledge and intellect.
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Boxing Day MOTD running order: WBA/ManC, Che/WHU, ManU/New, Ars/QPR, Sun/Hull, Lei/Tot, CP/Sou, Bur/Liv, Eve/Sto, Swa/AV
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Stat pack
Fabian Delph and Carlos Sanchez were Villa's best players when the figures were analysed following the defeat to Swansea.
Despite the loss, Delph and Sanchez ranked highest in a host of post-match categories.
Gabby Agbonlahor and Ciaran Clark also produced good statistics.
Delph was No.1 for passes with 88 successful from 99 in total. Sanchez was No.2 with 73 successful from 80 in total. Jores Okore was No.4 with 56 successful from 59 in total.
Delph was No.1 for attacking third passes with 20 successful from 27 in total. Alan Hutton was No.3 with 13 successful from 17 in total. Tom Cleverley was No.5 with 12 successful from 14 in total.
Delph was No.1 for chances created, alongside Christian Benteke, with two. Hutton was No.3 with one.
Agbonlahor was No.1 for take-ons with three successful from six in total. Andi Weimann was No.2 with three successful from three in total. Delph was No.5 with two successful from two in total.
Delph was No.1 for ball recoveries with 11. Sanchez was No.2 with nine. Okore was No.3 with seven.
Sanchez was No.1 for tackles with seven successful from seven attempted. Clark was No.2 with four successful from five attempted. Cleverley was No.3 with three successful from four attempted.
Agbonlahor was No.2 for shots with four in total and one on target. Benteke was No.3 with three in total and one on target. Weimann was No.5 with one in total and one on target.
Okore was No.1 for interceptions with three. Hutton was No.4 with two.
Sanchez was No.1 for blocks with one, alongside Clark.
Clark was No.2 for clearances with seven successful from seven attempted. Okore was No.3 with six successful from six attempted.
Benteke was No.1 for aerial duels with four successful from six in total. Clark was No.4 with two successful from four attempted.
Delph, Benteke and Agbonlahor were No.1 for fouls suffered with three.
Sanchez to Delph was No.1 pass combination in the match with 18. Okore to Delph was No.2 with 17. Hutton to Delph was No.3 with 16. Delph to Hutton was No.4 with 14.
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With all due respect to those who support Lambert, we may have a new way of playing, we may have more possession in games, yet we are still losing games and still not scoring goals. The use of the term 'brilliant' might indicate that we got a more positive result today and will wind some people up. It takes time to bed in any new style, hopefully, the next two games will yield a better outcome.
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With all due respect to those who support Lambert, we may have a new way of playing, we may have more possession in games, yet we are still losing games and still not scoring goals. The use of the term 'brilliant' might indicate that we got a more positive result today and will wind some people up. It takes time to bed in any new style, hopefully, the next two games will yield a better outcome.
That's more or less my way of thinking. I think the difference is that whereas after QPR I couldn't see any hope of improvement, I now think that there's not much wrong that a couple of wins and a decent signing or two won't put right.
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Whatever way you dress it up, 11 goals in 18 games is shocking. Lerner: just get rid of Lambert pronto - wake up!!
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Brilliant, fantastic, excellent , all words used by lambert post match. The man is deluded .
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With all due respect to those who support Lambert, we may have a new way of playing, we may have more possession in games, yet we are still losing games and still not scoring goals. The use of the term 'brilliant' might indicate that we got a more positive result today and will wind some people up. It takes time to bed in any new style, hopefully, the next two games will yield a better outcome.
That's more or less my way of thinking. I think the difference is that whereas after QPR I couldn't see any hope of improvement, I now think that there's not much wrong that a couple of wins and a decent signing or two won't put right.
The problem is under Lambert, we have been saying that since he's been here.
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Whatever way you dress it up, 11 goals in 18 games is shocking. Lerner: just get rid of Lambert pronto - wake up!!
Absolutely. Some of his acolytes seem to be suggesting that the future under Lambert is bright because we are not losing quite so badly as we once did. Losing is losing to me.
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I'm sure when Swansea started playing like Barcelona they didn't start winning every game instantly.
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I'm sure when Swansea started playing like Barcelona they didn't start winning every game instantly.
Lambert bangs on about this new way of playing as though we've cracked it, he's cracked it ? An increase in possession stats means little to me when all we do is nervously pass sideways around our own box and ultimately play ourselves into trouble.
We need to be playing football in the opposition half and around their box not ours .
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And we did for large periods of the second half. The other option is we could have stayed playing the way we were before which made many of us, quite rightly, question Lambert for sticking to the same unsuccessful formula.
He's now changed it and we've had some promising, if not perfect, results. A set back today is not the end of the world as long as we keep improving.
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With all due respect to those who support Lambert, we may have a new way of playing, we may have more possession in games, yet we are still losing games and still not scoring goals. The use of the term 'brilliant' might indicate that we got a more positive result today and will wind some people up. It takes time to bed in any new style, hopefully, the next two games will yield a better outcome.
That's more or less my way of thinking. I think the difference is that whereas after QPR I couldn't see any hope of improvement, I now think that there's not much wrong that a couple of wins and a decent signing or two won't put right.
I agree. However, I also think that Lambert needs to be honest with himself and realise that Cleverly and Delph, whilst good players, are not creative enough and he needs to find someone who can get beyond the attackers. The new way of playing is more attractive to the eye but the signings, if there are any, need to be an uplift from said players. I'd love for him to bring in at least one wide player in the window, to get the ball into the box more, but the three central midfielders need to offer something more than they currently offer.
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Can't argue with that I suppose. What we really need is creativity and width . I'd play Grealish and hope we have money for a playmaker in Jan window.
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The football I was most happy to watch us playing under Lambert was the last 3 months of 12/13, some great goals scored, lots of goals and exciting games and a good few wins. Even in defeats we played well like Chelsea and Liverpool at home.
That was more counter attacking than possession based but begs the question if we could do all that on the verge of relegation, why is it so difficult to replicate in mid table?
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I agree about the width. Surely Benteke would thrive from crosses into the box. We don't seem to do them, ever.
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It's been 'jam tomorrow' since Houllier. I've lost count of the number of times I've read 'we're one or two players short of a good side'.
We've been on a downward trajectory since O'Neill left and have a very thin squad. The last two seasons in particular have been desperate. It's going to take a lot more than one or two players to turn the club around. I can't see anything changing significantly until we are sold and / or Lambert moves on.
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Boxing Day MOTD running order: WBA/ManC, Che/WHU, ManU/New, Ars/QPR, Sun/Hull, Lei/Tot, CP/Sou, Bur/Liv, Eve/Sto, Swa/AV
2015 next week, so as regards hoping for better for the 5th successive year We Go Again. After all, We've Changed The Way We Play.
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I agree about the width. Surely Benteke would thrive from crosses into the box. We don't seem to do them, ever.
Utterly true and absolutely what worked under O'Neill. Young or Milner to Carew. Goal.
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It's been 'jam tomorrow' since Houllier. I've lost count of the number of times I've read 'we're one or two players short of a good side'.
We've been on a downward trajectory since O'Neill left and have a very thin squad. The last two seasons in particular have been desperate. It's going to take a lot more than one or two players to turn the club around. I can't see anything changing significantly until we are sold and / or Lambert moves on.
Unfortunately, that is absolutely spot on.
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With all due respect to those who support Lambert, we may have a new way of playing, we may have more possession in games, yet we are still losing games and still not scoring goals. The use of the term 'brilliant' might indicate that we got a more positive result today and will wind some people up. It takes time to bed in any new style, hopefully, the next two games will yield a better outcome.
That's more or less my way of thinking. I think the difference is that whereas after QPR I couldn't see any hope of improvement, I now think that there's not much wrong that a couple of wins and a decent signing or two won't put right.
What about having an inept manager?
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With all due respect to those who support Lambert, we may have a new way of playing, we may have more possession in games, yet we are still losing games and still not scoring goals. The use of the term 'brilliant' might indicate that we got a more positive result today and will wind some people up. It takes time to bed in any new style, hopefully, the next two games will yield a better outcome.
That's more or less my way of thinking. I think the difference is that whereas after QPR I couldn't see any hope of improvement, I now think that there's not much wrong that a couple of wins and a decent signing or two won't put right.
I was very positive before today and our side looked the strongest it has for a long time. It was disappointing to lose but we looked so much better. I just hope we can add just a little spark in January just to boost us and give us some edge other than Benteke.
It's definitely better and a win and an exciting signing could transform our season.
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The style of play, retention of the ball & defending is miles better than what we saw 12 months ago. But, we never look like scoring, everything goes through the middle, no width & no creativity. Gabby & Weimann need some serious competition for their places, they've done next to nothing for some considerable time.
We'll be OK this season but I'm convinced we'll be without Vlar, Delph & Benteke by the start of next season. That's going to be a big gap to fill.
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Brilliant, fantastic, excellent , all words used by lambert post match. The man is deluded .
It really depends if you take him seriously.
There was plenty to be positive about today, seconf half, obviously but it was a massive turn around against a team that made us look like children first half in the way they were organised and passed the ball around. My glass is half full tonight, even knowing Lambert's our manager and more than likely to fcuk up in the very near future. More importantly, we have a squad of players that are far better than they've pretended to be.
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I thought we were good for most of the game. The passing, far far better than I've seen for some time. Benteke wasn't great, the crossing wasn't great but overall we looked good. Swansea are a decent side and we looked better than them. We'll easily be okay this season if we continue like this.
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With all due respect to those who support Lambert, we may have a new way of playing, we may have more possession in games, yet we are still losing games and still not scoring goals. The use of the term 'brilliant' might indicate that we got a more positive result today and will wind some people up. It takes time to bed in any new style, hopefully, the next two games will yield a better outcome.
That's more or less my way of thinking. I think the difference is that whereas after QPR I couldn't see any hope of improvement, I now think that there's not much wrong that a couple of wins and a decent signing or two won't put right.
What about having an inept manager?
I still want him gone but I think we are stuck with him. The job is too big for him and he seems to lack creativity etc but, a good transfer window and the right Assistant Manager appointed might persuade me otherwise.
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I had to check the result and that we had actually lost and failed to score yet again after listening to our manager post match interview We were "fantastic" and "excellent" and we outplayed Swansea and i was "proud of the boys" As someone said in a earlier comment ,he is deluded
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I've stopped listening to his post match mumbling now. None of it seems to relate to the match that's just taken place and it just makes me angry.
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More meaningful shots ? What than Sigurdsons ?
*checks*
Yep, two is definitely a higher number than one.
Hang on , so you're saying 2 misses are more "meaningful" than 1 goal ? Not following the logic on that .
No, I'm saying that two shots are more shots than one shot is.
To be fair, you did specify 'meaningful'. Their shot meant two points, our two meant fuck all. So I'd have to agree with my fellow Silhillian there.
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One of those strange games where we could have won, should have drawn and yet we lost it.
We are keeping the ball better and with more purpose, we are creating chances and generally looking a better side. Obviously we need goals but to go to Swansea and out pass them for large parts of the match is very encouraging.
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We desperately need some creativity purchases in January. A creative "nr 10", a new winger, another striker.
We did well to nullify Bony yesterday and yet we are undone by a single goal as we have no response options once we go a goal down.
We won't get all those players in Jan , we will probably muster a loan signing from somewhere but I'd send cleverly back and use that money on the above.
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I'd keep Cleverley and bring in Redmond. I'd also possibly look at Jordan Rhodes to bring in,too.
We have the beginnings of a decent squad here; not convinced that Lambert can exploit it but he's who we've got for the time being, I fear.
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How many times does the word "hope" appear in the posts of those who want Lambert to stay or be given yet more time? The observation that the club has been in decline since the departure of MON and the subsequent, justified reaction not to waste money is exactly true. Stand back and see the big picture. Hope has been peddled as a substitute for forward planning.
During the Man U game my son (37 years on the Holte) pointed out how little atmosphere there was compared with past games against the same team. We immediately agreed that it was due to the overwhelming success of a policy by the club through its managers and players to drive down expectations.
Put out more flags. We only lost one nil at Swansea. Strike up the band. We are passing the ball. Kill the fatted calf. We are 5 points above the relegation positions.
This mind set about our current plight would be understandable if we were Swindon Town or Barnsley but we are Aston Villa and I look at 11 goals scored in 18 games and I hear our manager using words like "brilliant" and "fantastic" and it breaks my heart at what has happened to us. You and me, the fans. What a bunch of manipulated pussies we have become.
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Watching Ashley Young this morning sending in crosses of velocity and accuracy this morning I kept thinking Benteke should be on the end of those scoring with consumate ease.... every time!
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The passing stats are interesting. Given we dominated possession it won't surprise anybody that we made more short passes than Swansea, but also significantly fewer long balls, bu the criticism that we only pass sideways at the back isn't accurate.
391 short passes were made forwards, compared to 325 and 301 passes left or right, with most passes made in the second third of the pitch, 354 compared to 160 in the final third (that includes Weimann's bloody rubbish cross when it was easier to pick out any one of three Villa players!) and 118 in the defensive third.
Clearly we need to mix the options that supply Benteke up, although we did create enough to win the game, but it does beg a question; how or why has it taken so long to start playing football, when we can out Swansea the "South Wales Barca" after a few weeks at it? The players are capable and clearly always have been. It's a bit odd really.
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Whilst I can't enthuse Lambertesquely about our performance, I do think that a fundamental change is in place and if we'd have picked up a point yesterday it would've been a lot easier to see.
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I think it's more a case Swansea got their goal and then sat back and let us have some meaningless possession fully knowing we'd do feck all with it whilst they conserved some batteries for Sunday.
11 goals in 18 games ! Enough said.
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I think it's more a case Swansea got their goal and then sat back and let us have some meaningless possession fully knowing we'd do feck all with it whilst they conserved some batteries for Sunday.
11 goals in 18 games ! Enough said.
Indeed!
They pretty much did a (better) Villa on us.
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I think it's more a case Swansea got their goal and then sat back and let us have some meaningless possession fully knowing we'd do feck all with it whilst they conserved some batteries for Sunday.
11 goals in 18 games ! Enough said.
Indeed!
They pretty much did a (better) Villa on us.
We got mugged off i think by Gary Monks tactics.
We are busy lauding it up for out passing / possessioning Swansea and they walk off with 3 easy points and a clean sheet .
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I think it's more a case Swansea got their goal and then sat back and let us have some meaningless possession fully knowing we'd do feck all with it whilst they conserved some batteries for Sunday.
11 goals in 18 games ! Enough said.
We'd already gone close twice before they scored so I don't think that suggestion holds any water. In fact for any manager to adopt that approach with a striker as good as Benteke playing against them would be downright stupidity.
We clearly have an issue with not scoring enough goals but we are now at least playing in a way that gets into positions were we might create the opportunities.
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Are we actually improving / creating more though ? In 18 games I've seen no real difference ?
Game 1-Stoke away - 37%, 7 shots (1 on target) 8 corners
Game 3 - hull home - 55%, 9 shots (3 on target) 7 corners
Game 9- QPR away - 65%, 15 shots (6 on target) 4 corners
Game 16 - WBA away - 51%, 7 shots (2 on target) 2 corners
Game 18- Swansea away 57% 11 shots (3 on target ) 0 corners
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Swansea were forced back second half because of how we played. We didn't have meaningless possession, we were just wasteful in the final third.
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Are we actually improving / creating more though ? In 18 games I've seen no real difference ?
Game 1-Stoke away - 37%, 7 shots (1 on target) 8 corners
Game 3 - hull home - 55%, 9 shots (3 on target) 7 corners
Game 9- QPR away - 65%, 15 shots (6 on target) 4 corners
Game 16 - WBA away - 51%, 7 shots (2 on target) 2 corners
Game 18- Swansea away 57% 11 shots (3 on target ) 0 corners
Those stats only tell a partial story. Yesterday, for instance, we got into good positions behind the full back only to waste the cross by putting it too close to the keeper or both strikers going far when it needed one of them to get across the front.
I think from where we were a few weeks ago when there was almost universal despair with the way we were playing we are now seeing a more purposeful approach. It is what most of us were asking for, pass and move rather than hit and hope.
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I think it's more a case Swansea got their goal and then sat back and let us have some meaningless possession fully knowing we'd do feck all with it whilst they conserved some batteries for Sunday.
11 goals in 18 games ! Enough said.
Yes you are bang on as usual. They did give us (obviously given not taken as no one is worse than Villa) meaningless possession however just forgot that on another day in that period they could have and should have conceded 4 goals but hey let's not bother with how the match was played out when it's more miserable to turn around any stat to rubbish our team.
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Really thought we could nick a point yesterday and we came very close, I think there is a tiny bit of improvement in our overall play but it is not being turned into anything meaningful, 11 goals in 18 league games is a very sobering stat, Gabby's suspension will probably lead to the return of Nzogbia rather than Grealish as Lambert is always conservative with his selections, maybe we will get the playmaker we need in January but if not I expect us to hang around 14th looking over our shoulders till the end of the season.
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I was reading a Swansea forum last night and there seemed to be more than a few of them saying they were lucky to win, and could easily have lost.
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I was reading a Swansea forum last night and there seemed to be more than a few of them saying they were lucky to win, and could easily have lost.
That's fair enough then and perhaps on this occasion I'm being a bit harsh on the lads. Just getting so fed up of all these games where we rarely threaten and draw a blank.
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Didn't know you could read Welsh?
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We're okay until the final third. I just think we still lack someone who can float between the lines and make something happen. The 5-3-2 should be used sparingly, and probably only against other sides playing it.
Cleverley is fucking shit. And that's a polite way of putting it.
Grealish made a difference when he came on I felt. He actually floated, looked to make things happen and got closer to Benteke. He also didn't look frightened to get in the box.
We're work in progress but I suppose in some regards we're getting better. We don't look as rushed or frightened on the ball. Still though, we're creating next to nothing. We didn't test their keeper until the 90th minute really. That said Guzan had very little to do beside pluck a freekick out of his net.
This goalscoring problem is huge though. Waiting for a moment of Benteke magic isn't a tactic really. Gabby and/or Weimann need replacing ASAP. Cleverley is poor. I'd give Grealish a run of games now. Give him a chance.
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I wonder if our brand spanking new and improved style of play will convince Delph and Vlaar to stay on? And for Benteke not to want to leave?
I'm not worried about going down this year, which is odd because I usually am. I'm already worried about next season. I know, futile and a waste of emotional energy.
I'll try and enjoy this new style of play he's figured out. He does sound happy with himself getting them to play a way which should have been the very fundamentals anyway. And before anyone says 'he can't win', and 'damned if he does ...', you're right. I'm not ashamed of it either. He shouldn't have been putting on a shower of shit for 2 years.
Let's hope he uses his new manual to get more crosses into the box. I think this invention will get Benteke loads of goals.
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I'm still a bit nervous about this season. Two wins now though would improve matters. My fear is anything happens to Benteke and we really are in the shite. These next 2 games 6 points and some goals please !!
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The words excellent and losing don't go together :(
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They do where Paul Lambert is concerned, constantly.
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The words excellent and losing don't go together :(
Or brilliant or fantastic ?! Unless you are Paul Lambert
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I really do think the criticism of Cleverley is harsh - he may not have been amazing, but I do believe that his presence has helped the team to develop this improving style of football. I hope we sign him permanently in January.
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My problem, and it is my problem for which I blame nobody but myself, is that when Andi Weimann has a good, clear shot on goal to win a game for us, he throws his head back and slashes the ball into the Holte Upper. When I see that I see Frankie Broome, Trevor Ford, Johnnie Dixon, Tommy Thomson, Gerry Hitchens, Peter McParland, Tony Hately, Andy Gray, Alan McInnally, Mark Walters, Brian Little, Gary Shaw, Tony Morley and Dwight Yorke burying the ball in the net.
The longer this pursuit of mid table mediocrity remains our only dream, more and more old dodgers like me will die off and only the recollection of rubbish will remain
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4 away goals so far this season.
Awful
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4 away goals so far this season.
Awful
Three away wins.
Decent
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I really do think the criticism of Cleverley is harsh - he may not have been amazing, but I do believe that his presence has helped the team to develop this improving style of football. I hope we sign him permanently in January.
I agree. I thought he was decent yesterday
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Although its been said a million times the only attribute both Weimann and Cleverley have in their favour is that they both put in a huge shift for the team, When you look at the likes of N'Zogbia and Agbonlahor this goes down well with the support. Its not enough though. Lambert needs to bring in
a skilfull midfielder/winger someone along the lines of Ray Graydon. He also,as a matter of urgency, must get a partner for Benteke up front to take the pressure off the big man.
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My problem, and it is my problem for which I blame nobody but myself, is that when Andi Weimann has a good, clear shot on goal to win a game for us, he throws his head back and slashes the ball into the Holte Upper. When I see that I see Frankie Broome, Trevor Ford, Johnnie Dixon, Tommy Thomson, Gerry Hitchens, Peter McParland, Tony Hately, Andy Gray, Alan McInnally, Mark Walters, Brian Little, Gary Shaw, Tony Morley and Dwight Yorke burying the ball in the net.
The longer this pursuit of mid table mediocrity remains our only dream, more and more old dodgers like me will die off and only the recollection of rubbish will remain
You appear to have forgotten Peter Withe, Brian......and Wally Hazelden!!
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I really do think the criticism of Cleverley is harsh - he may not have been amazing, but I do believe that his presence has helped the team to develop this improving style of football. I hope we sign him permanently in January.
I am aghast at this comment. He did nothing of note.
Receive ball, run 5 yards, turn around with back facing the goal, pass the ball back. Repeat until substituted.
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My omission of Peter Withe Ron was deliberate. I have him filed in a different part of my treasure chest of Villa memories. He is under G for Giant not G for Goals. I also omitted JPA whom I adored because he too would throw his head back and slash at the ball in front of goal.
I was in my mid forties when we won the EC. My guess is that most of the posters on H and V are about that age. I just want them to enjoy what I enjoyed at their age. It is their heritage and should not be sacrificed for some self defeating mission to balance the books and arse lick round the owner.
The penny of attacking to defend a lead seems (I hope) to have dropped. What we now need is the penny to drop about investing money in good players being good business, in bad players is bad business.
It is like that advert for VW cars where the dad is choosing a shark cage for his son to go diving. He rents the rickety one because it is cheap, The moral is simple. You get what you pay for.
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Against Manure,the 2 obvious players who need to be replaced with quality were Gabby and Weiman,not bad players or servants to our club,but they are holding down positions which need to be filled by a better class of player.Do that and we might start scoring a few goals and winning a few games ,the shot into the Holte and his run yesterday ending in a feeble effort both by Weiman demonstrate this.
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Against Manure,the 2 obvious players who need to be replaced with quality were Gabby and Weiman,not bad players or servants to our club,but they are holding down positions which need to be filled by a better class of player.Do that and we might start scoring a few goals and winning a few games ,the shot into the Holte and his run yesterday ending in a feeble effort both by Weiman demonstrate this.
This, this and this again. It's been obvious since the start of last season. Neither has the technical or tactical awareness to play these roles.
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I really do think the criticism of Cleverley is harsh - he may not have been amazing, but I do believe that his presence has helped the team to develop this improving style of football. I hope we sign him permanently in January.
He shouldn't be taking free kicks, he's terrible from a dead ball. If Lambert pays £7m for him it's wasted money.
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I was in my mid forties when we won the EC. My guess is that most of the posters on H and V are about that age.
Most posters in their seventies, Mr Green? I'm a young whippersnapper of 60! Sir Brian's age but not rank.
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I really do think the criticism of Cleverley is harsh - he may not have been amazing, but I do believe that his presence has helped the team to develop this improving style of football. I hope we sign him permanently in January.
I am aghast at this comment. He did nothing of note.
Receive ball, run 5 yards, turn around with back facing the goal, pass the ball back. Repeat until substituted.
Aghast?! Really?
Anyway, I would suggest that the fact that, as you point out, he a) received the ball and then b) passed the ball to a team-mate is fairly supportive of the point I was making, really.
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I was in my mid forties when we won the EC. My guess is that most of the posters on H and V are about that age. I just want them to enjoy what I enjoyed at their age. It is their heritage and should not be sacrificed for some self defeating mission to balance the books and arse lick round the owner.
Do you also want them to enjoy what you enjoyed in your 30s, division 3 football and 8 years out of the top flight and 14 straight seasons of never finishing top 10? Lets not pretend it was all great back in the day. There have been some great highs, but 1 league title and 2 FA Cups in the last 100 years is the (sad) reality of following Villa.
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1 European Cup.
1 European Super Cup.
Do the Inter-Toto and Peace Cups count?
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Can't say I've read much of this thread so this may have been raised already but I'm a bit annoyed that the new passing style seems to mostly consist of passing it around in defence. That's not the change we needed, yes it's easier on the eye but it still involves keeping men behind the ball and playing safe, which is the key issue. To score goals we need to find space in the box, getting runners from midfield and people involved in play higher up the pitch gives you more chance to do that. What we're doing now, at its heart, is no different to the rest of the season. It's all about holding a defensive shape and hoping to spring a quick attack.
Towards the end we committed a few more forward and created chances but it came too late. He really needs to let us attack before we're chasing the game.
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Still not sure what to make of yesterday. Very frustrated by the first half performance. Unlike the Utd game the 352 just looked all wrong and no one seemed to know what the hell they were supposed to be doing. Second half I thought we controlled the game but just couldn't quite find that quality pass or cross to make it count. I was very frustrated with the Beast throughout. He tried flick after flick when I thought he needed to hold the ball turn and run at the Swansea defence. Still thought we deserved at the very least a draw. As many have already, we need to take advantage of the next two games.
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Possession football needs an end product.
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Yes PWS I would take all that and I did take all that. I don't know how much of it you were there for but I can assure you without fear of contradiction that the spirit of the fans burned just as fiercely in the 3rd division as it did when we were in the first.
I really should not have to repeat the point but it keeps being ignored. In all the time I have followed the club there was never ever a time, unlike now, when we did not believe we would rise again the very top. You can be as sniffy as you like about me singling out the European Cup as something I want younger fans to enjoy but the fact that we had been so long in the depths before that glorious time served only to make it more joyous for me and those like me.
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I didn't ask if you did it, it was if you wanted the current generation to 'enjoy' it as well as it's as much a part of their heritage as winning the European Cup and the double is. It's crap at the moment, it was shit back then. Maybe in 10 years we'll win the league and European Cup again. But just like then, when living through the crap times, we have no idea what the future will hold.
As you know how old I am having met me and i've said on here often enough, you know I wasn't there then so not sure why you ask how much I was there for.
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I was in my mid forties when we won the EC. My guess is that most of the posters on H and V are about that age. I just want them to enjoy what I enjoyed at their age. It is their heritage and should not be sacrificed for some self defeating mission to balance the books and arse lick round the owner.
Do you also want them to enjoy what you enjoyed in your 30s, division 3 football and 8 years out of the top flight and 14 straight seasons of never finishing top 10? Lets not pretend it was all great back in the day. There have been some great highs, but 1 league title and 2 FA Cups in the last 100 years is the (sad) reality of following Villa.
I just want younger supporters to have the pleasure of enjoying something week in week out. Older supporters like me have seen intermittent glories in the past. At this present time it doesn't seem likely that those times will come round again.
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There's always the FA Cup. We have to win it at some point. I'm going for 2017.
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I'd keep Cleverley and bring in Redmond. I'd also possibly look at Jordan Rhodes to bring in,too.
We have the beginnings of a decent squad here; not convinced that Lambert can exploit it but he's who we've got for the time being, I fear.
I like both Redmond and Rhodes - but, I can see their clubs asking a fortune. Blackburn paid £8mil for Rhodes a few seasons back - so, I imagine they'll want at least £12mil approx? Redmond too, maybe something similar? Silly money.
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We made significantly more passes forwards than backwards and more passes in both the middle and final third as opposed to along the back line.
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We made significantly more passes forwards than backwards and more passes in both the middle and final third as opposed to along the back line.
Goals scored = 0
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I know we didn't score. I am addressing the argument that "we only keep the ball at the back".
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We made significantly more passes forwards than backwards and more passes in both the middle and final third as opposed to along the back line.
Goals scored = 0
Corners = 0
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As someone else pointed out lets see how the next 3 games go. All winnable. And sče whether Lambert's latent tactical genius transformation bears fruit.
Starting today. Poyet is already getting his excuses in.
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We made significantly more passes going forwards than backwards. Is this what it's come to.
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We made significantly more passes going forwards than backwards. Is this what it's come to.
Well if you want to defend the joke manager we have you can't resort to goals, possession, shots, style, excitement, tempo, passion, organisation... our expecatation went from scoring some goals, gradually down to having more shots and currently lies at how many times do we pass the ball forward.
Lambert is a clown.
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We really didn't, a lot of the possession was cycling the ball around in midfield, which is okay if it goes somewhere, but for 85 minutes it just didn't go anywhere anything like often enough. If I'm honest the side we reminded me of most was the baggies side from a few years back who went down having fannied about with the ball but created nothing for an entire season.
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If we've scored 22 goals by the time we've played 36 games I would suggest we will be in serious trouble.
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The lowest we've ever scored is 36 so the clown has to conjure up another 26 goals in 20 games to avoid breaking another record.
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We made significantly more passes going forwards than backwards. Is this what it's come to.
It's things like this that make arguing about stuff on the internet a fairly pointless exercise.
"We hardly ever passed forward. It was always backwards and to the side"
"Actually we made more passes forward than either back or to the side"
"AND THAT MAKES EVERYTHING ALRIGHT DOES IT?!?!?"
"sigh"