Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Colhint on December 03, 2014, 12:11:28 PM
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I have been doing a little research on our Injuries over the last few years. It seems as though we are cursed. Now I can't link all of the stats, as they come from different sources. Sporting Intelligence, Talksport, Guardian and Physioroom. Basically I just googled Premier League Injuries 2012-13, then 13-14 and this season. No one place had all the info. However if you took it as a table with the least injuries being Champions and the most being relegated, and I can only show those at risk of relegation because of the lack of stats it looks as follows
2112-13 13-14 this season
position
15 Fulham 15 Man U 15 Everton
16 Man U 16 Newcastle 16 Villa
17 QPR 17 Everton 17 Stoke
18 Villa 18 Villa 18Arsenal
19 Wigan 19 Spurs 19 Man U
20 Newcastle 20 Arsenal 20 Newcastle
Now you could probably draw many conclusions from that.
We have the worst and newcastle second.
We would have been relegated twice
Our best positon is 2 places above relegation
Of the teams who have finished bottom half in the Last few season only us and Newcastle have appeared in that list more than once
3 teams on that list have been relegated.
I am not using this to defend Lambert, some of his tactics leave me wondering sometimes. However perhaps he hasn't had much luck. The reason I looked into this was I read a comment a while back, which sort of said, well every team has injuries. Well yes they do, just not as many as us. Its a bit like goals, every team scores goals It's just most score more than us.
I doubt if he has had to put his best squad out 3 games running in that period, and I doubt if he has been able to put the same team out 5 games in a row. If you compare that to say Southampton this season, I think they have only used 14 players.
Anyway is it as Napoleon said I want lucky Generals?
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When you consistently have so many injuries, which post O Neill we have done, then you can't really put it purely down to luck. Some of it is desperately unfortunate, but I don't think our fitness/physio and medical teams are quite cutting it.
Plus Lambert has signed players like Cole, Vlaar, Richardson and Senderos, all who have had questionnable injury records. Likewise McLeish in all his wisdom signed Jenas. Sometimes you're asking for trouble.
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We expend a lot of energy too and all this desperate defending, outstretched legs, diving for blocks etc, also contributes to injuries. Cole did his hamstring stretching to block a cross. Of course that's Cole, but the point still stands. We spend too much time chasing the ball or making last ditch blocks and tackles. We're asking for it.
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When you see teams get loads of injuries consistently, and not necessarily always to the same players, you can't help but wonder if it's not by luck but by bad design.
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When you see teams get loads of injuries consistently, and not necessarily always to the same players, you can't help but wonder if it's not by luck but by bad design.
Agreed. Appearing once in that list is bad luck, three times suggests there are bigger problems. As others have said, it could be how hard the players work, could be some of the players we've signed, some of it could our training methods.
Didn't Wenger decide this season that enough was enough and order an overhaul of the training facilities and methods?
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When you see teams get loads of injuries consistently, and not necessarily always to the same players, you can't help but wonder if it's not by luck but by bad design.
Agreed. Appearing once in that list is bad luck, three times suggests there are bigger problems. As others have said, it could be how hard the players work, could be some of the players we've signed, some of it could our training methods.
Didn't Wenger decide this season that enough was enough and order an overhaul of the training facilities and methods?
Yep and that list doesn't include 10-11 which was pretty bad too. Particularly mid-season when we were decimated and it was clearly in part caused by Houlliers double training sessions.
Conversely Martin O Neill was pretty blessed for four years in terms of injuries.
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Wenger did, and it's working to some extent. Moyes always got a lot of injuries at Everton, and always at the same time of year as well, and I'd be amazed if it had nothing to do with his style of play and training methods.
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You only have to look at Delph's career to see how injuries can stack up - http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/players/2738/fabian_delph_injury.html
The bottom one was his long term injury in his first season and then you see 2 years of regular related injuries, the lack of fitness and the mental caution combine to make picking up additional knocks all the more likely.
When you look at the conditioning of the likes of Nzogbia and Bent my concern is that the summer upheavals of the last 4-5 seasons (the only summer that was 'normal' was 2013) have meant that not enough care has been taken to get the players fitness levels right in pre-season. I'm not blaming Lambert for this, I think we looked much fitter in 13-14 and a lot of the injuries that year were, like the Delph ones, a result of players taking one knock after another or were 'freak' injuries (Nzogbia, Okore, Kozak and Benteke all got serious injuries in pretty tame circumstances) I think we just need to review it before next season and make sure the right focus is put on that side of things.
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I have just Looked at Lamberts time and Norwich, he didn't seem to have it so bad then
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What worries me as much as the number of injuries is the length of time it seems to take for our players to come back. Obviously you can understand serious injuries like those of Benteke, Delph and Kozak, but when the likes of Vlaar, Senderos and Baker have 'no return date' for weeks on end after the initial injury I do wonder whether it's bad injury management or just bad luck.
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http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/clubs/2/aston_villa_injuries.html
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If we play with the ball and pass and keep it better, there will be less injuries. I wonder how do Barcelona compare on injuries front.
Any news about Kozak's recovery as he had been out almost 11 months.
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once again the curse strikes we have just moved into the bottom 4. So 2 Central midfielders this week, on top of one last week. So playing 3 central midfielders and having 4 out injured is crap. Luck has got to turn soon
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I can't see anything anywhere so here seems a good place, is there any news on Westwood yet?
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Delph was back in training Friday and Vlaar and Cleverley may be back for the next game, so things are clearing up a little.
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I can't see anything anywhere so here seems a good place, is there any news on Westwood yet?
Rumoured to be out for 4 months!!! Ouch
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Gutted for Westwood.
For me, a real bright spot this season. Doesn't influence games as much as he should, but has made the step up from Crewe and doesn't look out of place in the Premiership.
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Hope the 4 month rumour isn't true, that would be a real shame. Any official word?
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Hope the 4 month rumour isn't true, that would be a real shame. Any official word?
It wouldn't surprise me if this is right, it was a horrible tackle that should've been a straight red, the main pressure is right on the outside of his knee, it's the kind of tackle that opens up the joint and damages the ACL or PCL, both of which are long term injuries.
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Fingers crossed it's not four months, we'll miss him more than we expect too I reckon.
Bloody injuries we've had the last 3 years are silly now.
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Is no news bad news?
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I hope I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure I saw the "pivot shift" phenomenon occur on the Match of the Day footage - where the thigh bone slips out of place on the shin bone and then suddenly clunks back into place. That would indicate ACL injury.
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I can't help thinking it's going to be a fairly lengthy lay off. He was due to have a scan today and i'd have thought if it was minor we'd have said something.
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I hope I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure I saw the "pivot shift" phenomenon occur on the Match of the Day footage - where the thigh bone slips out of place on the shin bone and then suddenly clunks back into place. That would indicate ACL injury.
Exactly my thinking as above, I was livid about the injury yesterday.
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From the Telegraph:
Aston Villa midfielder Ashley Westwood ruled out until the New Year with twisted knee
Westwood was stretchered off during Villa's 2-1 win over Leicester and will miss at least four matches
Ashley Westwood is out until 2015 with a twisted knee
Aston Villa midfielder Ashley Westwood is set to miss the rest of the year after suffering a twisted knee.
Westwood will be ruled out until January in another blow for Paul Lambert, though Villa are relieved after initial fears he could be sidelined for months.
The 24-year-old was stretchered off in the first half of Villa’s win over Leicester City on Sunday after a foul by striker Jamie Vardy.
And after a scan at the training ground on Monday, Westwood is expected to miss a minimum of three weeks, which will include games against West Bromwich Albion, Manchester United, Swansea and Sunderland.
Westwood joins Fabian Delph, Ron Vlaar, Nathan Baker and Libor Kozak on the injury list at Villa while Tom Cleverley is also struggling with a foot problem.
It leaves Lambert facing a dilemma over his midfield ahead of Saturday’s trip to the Hawthorns but there is a sense of relief that Westwood’s injury is not serious.
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Can we called Gardner back or is he at Brighton for as set period of time ?
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Westwood is our most underrated player by a mile - at least by villa fans
All the independent pundits rate him. Jonathan Pearce has been touting him for an england call. Victim of the same mentality that means someone like carrick is underrated
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Westwood is our most underrated player by a mile - at least by villa fans
All the independent pundits rate him. Jonathan Pearce has been touting him for an england call. Victim of the same mentality that means someone like carrick is underrated
I think there is some truth in that, begs the question why is he occasionally so anonymous in games? Potentially the system/team-mates not getting the best out of him. I'd love to see him take control of games a bit more often and look for a forward pass because I think he has the range of passing to pull it off. Wishing him a full and speedy recovery.
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if it is 4 matches than that is great news.
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Westwood is our most underrated player by a mile - at least by villa fans
All the independent pundits rate him. Jonathan Pearce has been touting him for an england call. Victim of the same mentality that means someone like carrick is underrated
I think there is some truth in that, begs the question why is he occasionally so anonymous in games? Potentially the system/team-mates not getting the best out of him. I'd love to see him take control of games a bit more often and look for a forward pass because I think he has the range of passing to pull it off. Wishing him a full and speedy recovery.
To be honest, I think that has a lot to do with the lack of movement in front of him. The three in midfield play pretty flat, so he doesn't really have a lot in front of him.
As for him being out, I think Sanchez should be able to fill that role in his absence.
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If Vlaar is able to return next match they could put him in central defence and play Clark as a defensive midfielder. Then there's Bacuna - I noticed he was very keen when he came on on Saturday.
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I reckon he will just bring in Richardson.
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If Vlaar is able to return next match they could put him in central defence and play Clark as a defensive midfielder. Then there's Bacuna - I noticed he was very keen when he came on on Saturday.
I'm surprised we've not really tried Bacuna as a defensive midfielder at any point. He can pass, he's mobile, energetic and might even get the odd shot away.
His tackling can be a bit suspect, but then Westwood is hardly the new Roy Keane in that area himself.
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The one injury that always sticks out for me is Laursen. We pretty much disintegrated the season we lost him after the West Brom game (when we were 3rd), Moscow followed shortly after then came the draw against Stoke, 4 consecutive defeats and then three draws.
He was our captain and talisman, how many other teams have had to cope with completely losing such a player like that? Imagine if Liverpool had lost Gerrard in 2009 for example. We were doing so well that season till he got injured again. And then to lose Petrov as well not long after? Both were hammer blows.
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The defense was literally all over the place without Laursen that season.
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If Vlaar is able to return next match they could put him in central defence and play Clark as a defensive midfielder. Then there's Bacuna - I noticed he was very keen when he came on on Saturday.
I'm surprised we've not really tried Bacuna as a defensive midfielder at any point. He can pass, he's mobile, energetic and might even get the odd shot away.
His tackling can be a bit suspect, but then Westwood is hardly the new Roy Keane in that area himself.
A big part of being a good defensive midfielder comes down to positional awareness and discipline though, especially when one lacks the physicality/athleticism capable of covering such deficiencies, and I've never felt Bacuna has had that kind of sense in him (obviously I'm not saying he's as thick as molasses though.)
Still, you're right in saying that Westwood was hardly pulling up trees defensively either, and if we're going to continue with this new-fangled "attacking" tactic on the weekend, having two quick, energetic midfielders in Richardson and Bacuna playing in front of Sanchez and capable of getting up the pitch to support Benteke looks useful, at least on paper.
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If Vlaar is able to return next match they could put him in central defence and play Clark as a defensive midfielder. Then there's Bacuna - I noticed he was very keen when he came on on Saturday.
I'm surprised we've not really tried Bacuna as a defensive midfielder at any point. He can pass, he's mobile, energetic and might even get the odd shot away.
His tackling can be a bit suspect, but then Westwood is hardly the new Roy Keane in that area himself.
A big part of being a good defensive midfielder comes down to positional awareness and discipline though, especially when one lacks the physicality/athleticism capable of covering such deficiencies, and I've never felt Bacuna has had that kind of sense in him (obviously I'm not saying he's as thick as molasses though.)
Still, you're right in saying that Westwood was hardly pulling up trees defensively either, and if we're going to continue with this new-fangled "attacking" tactic on the weekend, having two quick, energetic midfielders in Richardson and Bacuna playing in front of Sanchez and capable of getting up the pitch to support Benteke looks useful, at least on paper.
That's the selection I'd go with, too.
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Westwood out for 3 to 4 weeks apparently.
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Beeb
Aston Villa midfielder Ashley Westwood will miss three to four weeks with medial knee ligament damage suffered during Sunday's 2-1 win over Leicester.
Westwood was injured towards the end of the first half of the Premier League match at Villa Park when he was fouled by Leicester forward Jamie Vardy.
The 24-year-old, who set up Villa's equaliser, had a scan on Monday.
"He wouldn't go down unless it was serious," said Villa manager Paul Lambert immediately after the match.
Before being stretchered off, Westwood provided the assist for Ciaran Clark to level after Leonardo Ulloa had put the Foxes ahead.
Alan Hutton's first Villa goal then secured three points for the home side that, coming on the back of the 1-0 victory away to Crystal Palace on Tuesday, moved Lambert's side up to 12th in the table.
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Would be good to have Delph back for the Man. United game as its going to be Sanchez and Richardson in the middle otherwise.
Delph started non contact training last week apparently so it's an outside chance he could be back in contention.
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Westwood is our most underrated player by a mile - at least by villa fans
All the independent pundits rate him. Jonathan Pearce has been touting him for an england call. Victim of the same mentality that means someone like carrick is underrated
When we get loads of time and space on the ball he can look decent.
However when things get physical or time and space is at a premium then Westwood is a passenger like at Palace.
The likes of Leon Britton and Leon Osman have had their cheerleaders before, Westwood belongs firmly in this camp imo
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I agree westwood struggled v palace and he's not been in great form of late. But he's one of our better players in my view
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I agree westwood struggled v palace and he's not been in great form of late. But he's one of our better players in my view
Agreed.
He does a great deal of fetching and carrying which is vital. Somebody has to do that job. He does it well - better, imho, than anyone else in the team.
He doesn't make Hollywood passes...great that Sanchez occasionally does!
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He's not bad for someone playing in league 1 a couple of years back.
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I'm guessing it will be sanchez holding with bacuna and richardson either side v west brom?
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What's the news on Cole?
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He has been re-named Fernandez-Versini!
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The official AVFC Twitter feed is saying we're hoping to have Delph/Vlaar back in contention for the Baggies game and Clevers will be fitness tested on his foot before being declared fit.
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At the moment I'd have Vlaar no more than fourth choice, which was unthinkable in August.
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That's good. As long as Delph is back for the ManYoo game when we definitely won't have Cleverley that's the main thing.
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Yeah I wasn't expecting Delph fit again pre-Xmas so either of these two games would be a bonus, you're right though, especially when TC is out.
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At the moment I'd have Vlaar no more than fourth choice, which was unthinkable in August.
Yep Okore has to start for me and Clark has earned his place.
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At the moment I'd have Vlaar no more than fourth choice, which was unthinkable in August.
Yep Okore has to start for me and Clark has earned his place.
For me you shouldn't have first, etc choice defenders as such, at least not ones that are guaranteed to come straight back in. More so than midfield and attack the defence is about building a coherent unit, and if that happens to include players who on paper aren't so high on the pecking order then so be it. In that respect the current back 4 should stay together for now until one of them deserves to be left out.
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At the moment I'd have Vlaar no more than fourth choice, which was unthinkable in August.
Yep Okore has to start for me and Clark has earned his place.
For me you shouldn't have first, etc choice defenders as such, at least not ones that are guaranteed to come straight back in. More so than midfield and attack the defence is about building a coherent unit, and if that happens to include players who on paper aren't so high on the pecking order then so be it. In that respect the current back 4 should stay together for now until one of them deserves to be left out.
We should hopefully soon be in a position where we can adopt a 'horses for courses' approach with our Centre-backs. For example, I'm more than happy to leave Okore and Clark in the side for the next few games, but the next time we come up against a Crouch/Carroll type striker I think we need to be looking to use 2 of Senderos, Vlaar and Baker.
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At the moment I'd have Vlaar no more than fourth choice, which was unthinkable in August.
Yep Okore has to start for me and Clark has earned his place.
For me you shouldn't have first, etc choice defenders as such, at least not ones that are guaranteed to come straight back in. More so than midfield and attack the defence is about building a coherent unit, and if that happens to include players who on paper aren't so high on the pecking order then so be it. In that respect the current back 4 should stay together for now until one of them deserves to be left out.
Absolutely.