Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: pauliewalnuts on November 30, 2014, 11:57:48 PM
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Does anyone else find themselves worried by the amount of uncertainty we seem to have behind the scenes? Even if you don't focus on the on-pitch stuff, the amount of "churn" going on behind the scenes seems to suggest a certain amount of instability, to say the least.
Sometimes when clubs go down, they do so with a similar level of off-pitch unsettledness, and I have to say, looking at events here in the last twelve months, then looking at the utter guff on the pitch, I do wonder if we're starting to resemble relegation season Newcastle.
In the last year or so ...
The manager's two trusted lieutenants, Karsa and Culverhouse, not only leave the club, but do so having been sacked - something which never seems to happen to football people usually. Rumours of bullying abound.
The chairman comes out and admits he wants to sell the club (and in doing so talks about the Shummanite).
One of the bomb squad, Shay Given, finds himself not only let back into the fold, but on the bench as part of an impromptu coaching team.
The CEO, who has worked with the chairman for years, leaves the club.
The media manager leaves and goes to Everton.
Roy Keane, the new assistant manager arrives and leaves within a couple of months, citing the inability to combine the two jobs, despite Ireland having two matches in the next ten months, the next of which isn't until March.
The rest of the bomb squad, ostracised from the main squad and forced to play frisbee with the youth team for an entire season or more now find themselves brought back.
If it were just a matter of looking at the utter rubbish on the pitch, it'd be easier to understand, but looking at all the above, I start to wonder if there isn't something seriously wrong at the heart of the club. Something looks like it isn't right.
If any one of the above had happened, you might just write it off as one of those things, but there seems to be a serious amount of instability.
Why?
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1) the chairmans lack of leadership and arms length fiddling
2) the managers lack of ability
3) the lack of Footballing nous on the board
4) the lack of a clear football structure at the club
5) coaching and medical inadequacies
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I think when a club starts to make bad decisions and fortunes decline then eventually the brighter talent (on or off the pitch, behind the scenes or whatever) moves away to be replaced by lesser talent. So the decision making gets worse: as walnuts points out, our list of bad decisions is as long as your arm. And then inevitably the decline gathers pace until it reaches a point where it seems unstoppable. The net effect of that I think is that it reduces morale and motivation to negligible levels and, at a time when the club desperately needs good, swift decisions, it finds its best people are long gone.
So I don't think there's anything particularly rotten at the heart of the club, it's just that there doesn't seem to be anybody left with much common sense, decisiveness, impetus, bravery, you name it. Or money. But, as has been said before, the club is in such a state that even if we did have money we'd probably do something ridiculous with it.
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It's mistake after mistake. It just keeps adding up and piling on to what has become a very unappealing heap. It's not one thing its several. If the football was better the background stuff is hidden more. Let's face it, it's not as if everything was rosy even we sat near the top of the table. This was always going to happen because the primary components causing the problems are still at the club. It won't end until everything has changed which might not happen for a good while yet. This is looking every bit as bleak as the dark days of McLeish. Maybe worse.
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There's no drive, initiative, target. I reckon someone has probably decided that we are good enough to survive this season. The apathy has filtered out to many of our fellow supporters and the media couldn't give a flying fuck. The owner has to take responsibility but we know he's not overly concerned, perpetuating the current banality. There won't be a change until we have a new owner with a plan and a few shillings. Could be a while.
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I think when a club starts to make bad decisions and fortunes decline then eventually the brighter talent (on or off the pitch, behind the scenes or whatever) moves away to be replaced by lesser talent. So the decision making gets worse: as walnuts points out, our list of bad decisions is as long as your arm. And then inevitably the decline gathers pace until it reaches a point where it seems unstoppable. The net effect of that I think is that it reduces morale and motivation to negligible levels and, at a time when the club desperately needs good, swift decisions, it finds its best people are long gone.
So I don't think there's anything particularly rotten at the heart of the club, it's just that there doesn't seem to be anybody left with much common sense, decisiveness, impetus, bravery, you name it. Or money. But, as has been said before, the club is in such a state that even if we did have money we'd probably do something ridiculous with it.
I do and it is going to take something drastic to change it.
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I think you are absolutely right Mr Walnuts. These events are indicative of an organisation that has lost its way and is in serious decline. No direction, no ambition, no plan and completely devoid of Leadership.
Unless Lerner shows some leadership (because I think we can forget about new owners any time soon) then the inevitable will happen. I don't think sacking Lambert will be enough unless this is part of a new plan and strategy for the club.
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I have thought this is the case for some time. I think I used the phrases "permanent transition", "the mother of all transitions" and "total flux".
As I said to a bemused chap in the concourse of the upper witton on Monday, "if this experimentation continues unabated we will soon be digging up the dead body of Joe Mercer and resurrecting him with high voltage and putting Gary Glitter and Rolf Harris in charge of the kids".
Randy Lerner came with good intentions but the club is now a metaphorical Frankenstein lurching from one disaster to the next.
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I'm not sure what will happen if randy is here another summer. Benteke, delph, vlaar and perhaps even guzan will be gone.
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Its said to say but I'm kind of use to a rudderless ship at the club now,seems to have been the norm for far too long .
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We're doomed .....I tell you...we're doomed....
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looking at all the above, I start to wonder if there isn't something seriously wrong at the heart of the club. Something looks like it isn't right.
You should be a detective.
Or the Villa chairman.
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There is one element that is consistent with HDE's final years as Chairman: the absence of a discernible guiding philosophy; a clear lack of strategic direction; an apparent unwillingness to think and act for the long term.
As hilts says, when things get tough in organisations, those that can leave (i.e. those with market value and demonstrable capability) normally do, leaving a rump of people for whom it's harder to up and go. We're seeing this now at VP to an extent.
The solution is a leader (chairman) who has the commitment and long term perspective to rally people to a credible cause ...
... We're still waiting for the sale of the club.
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I was hoping Tom Fox was going to steady the ship a bit but it may have gone too far for a quick turnaround. He may be merely "rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic".
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There is one element that is consistent with HDE's final years as Chairman: the absence of a discernible guiding philosophy; a clear lack of strategic direction; an apparent unwillingness to think and act for the long term.
As hilts says, when things get tough in organisations, those that can leave (i.e. those with market value and demonstrable capability) normally do, leaving a rump of people for whom it's harder to up and go. We're seeing this now at VP to an extent.
The solution is a leader (chairman) who has the commitment and long term perspective to rally people to a credible cause ...
... We're still waiting for the sale of the club.
In hindsight I don't think that there's been one since the day he walked through the door.
Plan A. Throw money at it with a manager everybody keeps telling me is the puppies plums.
Plan B. Oh f&%k, we've used the budget, what do we do now? "Don't panic Mr Mainwaring!"
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Once Lamberts stratedgy of geeting young promising players from the lower divisions blew up in his face then Randy should have sacked him, to give him a four year extension after three or four decent games was mind blowing incompetence.
Does anyone believe that Lerner is capable of replacing Lambert without us looking ridiculous, as i've stated before we probably have the only billionaire owner that is genuinely dumb, he must be because nobody makes as many mistakes as he has without having an intelligence deficit.
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The word 'clusterfuck' was invented for our current plight. And it all has its roots in one man.
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One of the things I really hate about our situation is how we're now one of those basket case clubs that we used to look at and say 'thank God that's not us'. You look at Leeds, Newcastle, Portsmouth, Doncaster - the list goes on - and I never really felt like Villa could be one of those clubs that implode, making joke decisions and angering their fan base spectaularly. And look at us. An institution, eroding.
I suspect a lot of people won't give a shit about how we 'look' to the wider world. But we ought to. We're the only ones who care enough about how things are going. Nobody's going to sympathise when we go - they'll laugh, because that's what happens when you're the joke.
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One of the things I really hate about our situation is how we're now one of those basket case clubs that we used to look at and say 'thank God that's not us'. You look at Leeds, Newcastle, Portsmouth, Doncaster - the list goes on - and I never really felt like Villa could be one of those clubs that implode, making joke decisions and angering their fan base spectaularly. And look at us. An institution, eroding.
I suspect a lot of people won't give a shit about how we 'look' to the wider world. But we ought to. We're the only ones who care enough about how things are going. Nobody's going to sympathise when we go - they'll laugh, because that's what happens when you're the joke.
We've become the new old Man City.
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It's not really turmoil, it's just slow decline. We're circling the drain in the same way Coventry were in the 90s. One year - and it might be this year - we won't get lucky and we'll go down. Nobody outside the Villa fanbase will care, just as they didn't about Coventry, as we've really done nothing to inspire anybody neutral for a long time.
What happens after that is anyone's guess. 1987 style root and branch reform and revival hopefully, but I think continued stagnation is more likely.
If Randy pulls the plug or becomes less fussy about who he sells to, something worse is possible, although improbable IMHO.
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I was hoping Tom Fox was going to steady the ship a bit but it may have gone too far for a quick turnaround. He may be merely "rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic".
Who is to say that he isn't doing a full review of the operations top to bottom?? its not something that would happen overnight & equally would not be something that would be publicised.
Saying that, it would require balls of steel if they weren't concerned with the league position
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It's not really turmoil, it's just slow decline. We're circling the drain in the same way Coventry were in the 90s.
That's been my take on it for a long time. Everything about the club right now stinks of decay and decline. I was standing looking at the newly installed lamp post-Soton game and all I could think it that our club is turning into a dusty old museum piece that used to mean something once, but has long since been consigned to the display case near the fire hydrant and the emergency exit. If one day it breaks, no-one will care much about fixing it, it will simply get chucked into the cellar and forgotten.
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The word 'clusterfuck' was invented for our current plight. And it all has its roots in one man.
Or even 'omnishambles'
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It's quite simple, when you start making the right decisions, everything else starts to fall into place. When you keep making bad decisions on top of bad decisions it just compounds the problems. An example being the expulsion of Hutton for two years & then turning around to give him a new contract.
Until Lerner starts making good decisions, employs someone capable of making the decisions for him or he sells up we are, at best, treading water. No one expects us to compete with the top few but the level of incompetence and apathy surrounding the whole club is staggering. Have we gone back to being run like a corner shop?
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I was hoping Tom Fox was going to steady the ship a bit but it may have gone too far for a quick turnaround. He may be merely "rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic".
Who is to say that he isn't doing a full review of the operations top to bottom?? its not something that would happen overnight & equally would not be something that would be publicised.
I think that's fair comment, we can't really make any judgment on what Fox is doing, because he hasn't been here that long, certainly not long enough to have major decisions attributed to him.
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Fair enough re Fox but I know someone who has met and spoken with him and the very clear feel he got was that he knows little about football. I hope he proves me wrong though.
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I think that Lerner has been neglectful and inept, but I honestly do hold Lambert accountable for most of the current problems.
The revolving door on our playing squad and coaching set-up is undoubtedly his responsibility. As is the lack of leadership and character within the team. In a footballing sense, we're completely planless. Collymore hit the nail on the head when he described our set-up as "hoping" instead of "coaching." Yes, hes had to work within some tough constraints and amid uncertainty over the clubs' ownership, but he's still had enough time and money to do a much better job than he has. Had we had a Tony Pulis or a Steve Mclaren (2 Managers that 90% of us would have turned our noses up at given the choice) in place for the last few seasons, I'd wager we'd be in a much better place than we currently are, and the off-field situation would be more of a frustration that an actual concern.
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I think that Lerner has been neglectful and inept, but I honestly do hold Lambert accountable for most of the current problems.
The revolving door on our playing squad and coaching set-up is undoubtedly his responsibility. As is the lack of leadership and character within the team. In a footballing sense, we're completely planless. Collymore hit the nail on the head when he described our set-up as "hoping" instead of "coaching." Yes, hes had to work within some tough constraints and amid uncertainty over the clubs' ownership, but he's still had enough time and money to do a much better job than he has. Had we had a Tony Pulis or a Steve Mclaren (2 Managers taht 905 of us would have turned our noses up at given the choice) in place for the last few seasons, I'd wager we'd be in a much better place than we currently are, and the off-field situation would be more of a frustration that an actual concern.
Valid points. Agreed that he has worked under constraints, but the fayre served up should be a whole lot better
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The media silence about Lambert's incompetence is something else. The Graun mentioned us in their Ten Things We Learned From The Weekend blog, to the effect merely that 1) Lambert might start to lose popularity and 2) maybe its our fault anyway, as the team plays with 'greater freedom' away from home. The idea that the general fan position on Lambert is anything other than overwhelmingly negative has failed to penetrate the general mediasphere, as have his amazing statistics accrued during his time here.
On Tom Fox, who knows, he might be the next Billy Beane or whatever, but coming from Arsenal doesn't necessarily suggest someone used to knowing when to fire a manager, or with experience of hiring a new one (though it might have left him with a certain minimum standard as to how modern top-flight football should be played, which would be something).
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I was hoping Tom Fox was going to steady the ship a bit but it may have gone too far for a quick turnaround. He may be merely "rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic".
Tom Fox's appointment isn't going to arrest a dire situation. The slide that set in during 2010 has gathered pace this season and will see the club finally relegated to the Championship. Two questions: Have we scored a single goal in the second half of any game this season? and, what was the last goal scored by a Villa player at the Holte End?
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I was always told as a child that 'a fox smells his own hole'.
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The media silence about Lambert's incompetence is something else. The Graun mentioned us in their Ten Things We Learned From The Weekend blog, to the effect merely that 1) Lambert might start to lose popularity and 2) maybe its our fault anyway, as the team plays with 'greater freedom' away from home. The idea that the general fan position on Lambert is anything other than overwhelmingly negative has failed to penetrate the general mediasphere, as have his amazing statistics accrued during his time here.
On Tom Fox, who knows, he might be the next Billy Beane or whatever, but coming from Arsenal doesn't necessarily suggest someone used to knowing when to fire a manager, or with experience of hiring a new one (though it might have left him with a certain minimum standard as to how modern top-flight football should be played, which would be something).
I don't think it is overwhelmingly negative though. The majority perhaps and a vocal one at that but I don't think the opposition is at pitchforks and blazing torches level yet. It was only very late against Burnley that the Lambert out chants began and the same was the case at West Ham. Any anger at the Spurs result was largely towards the officials though I can't comment on the Southampton game as I wasn't there but did it happen? I accept that there will be an element of supporting the team first and foremost before turning your ire towards the manager at the end rather than let rip from the beginning.
Lambert for me is in a curious limboland where he's not good enough to do the job but not doing badly enough to warrant the sack. I can't bring myself to actively want us to lose to bring about his dismissal. I'd accept it if it happened, shrug my shoulders and say it's probably for the best but I would much rather we started winning.
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I suppose what I mean is that, if you asked the fans if he should go, there'd probably be a large majority in favour of him going and going now. It's not as active as it was with McLeish, let alone DOL, but I think the consensus is there. I suppose the AVST survey will tell us.
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I was hoping Tom Fox was going to steady the ship a bit but it may have gone too far for a quick turnaround. He may be merely "rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic".
Tom Fox's appointment isn't going to arrest a dire situation. The slide that set in during 2010 has gathered pace this season and will see the club finally relegated to the Championship. Two questions: Have we scored a single goal in the second half of any game this season? and, what was the last goal scored by a Villa player at the Holte End?
Sorry, but this is a complete and utter non statistic. The same was said last year about goals at the Witton End. There's not a lot of control we have over the toss and one won or lost the other way will mean goals at the opposite end. Granted that the goals scored total is pitiable but this is just looking for more stuff to moan about.
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Lambert for me is in a curious limboland where he's not good enough to do the job but not doing badly enough to warrant the sack. I can't bring myself to actively want us to lose to bring about his dismissal. I'd accept it if it happened, shrug my shoulders and say it's probably for the best but I would much rather we started winning.
Oh, don't get me wrong - if I could wave a magic wand it would be in order to get us playing well and winning under the current set-up (and I include Lerner in that). I just don't see how, after all of this time and the consistency of our poor footballing performances, anything other than a change of manager is going to make a difference.
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It may not be as irrelevant as you think. We tend to kick towards the Holt in the second half. So, without doing the research I'd guess it means we very rarely score in the second half at home, which may be a pointer to one of our footballing / tactical problems? Ie - get our noses in front, sit back, concede late, go home frustrated.
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Can we not use the phrase 'noses in front' please?
It makes me feel bilious.
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Lambert for me is in a curious limboland where he's not good enough to do the job but not doing badly enough to warrant the sack. I can't bring myself to actively want us to lose to bring about his dismissal. I'd accept it if it happened, shrug my shoulders and say it's probably for the best but I would much rather we started winning.
I agree with the second bit but not the first.
I reckon Lambert has had several times when he has put together periods like this which would have got just about any other manager the sack, I think he is very lucky (if that is the right word) to still be in a job. His record, even when compared to the mediocrity of lots of other Villa managers, is awful.
He has lost 49 of the 102 (or is it 103 now?) matches he has been our manager for.
But, despite all of that, I entirely agree with you on the wanting us to start winning thing. If it were up to me, I'd sack Lambert today. If I had the choice between that (which would mean all the usual wasting money on compensation) and us starting to be something even approaching acceptable in terms of results, I'd go for the latter.
The problem is, over two and a bit years, I just can't see anything like enough evidence to suggest he knows how to do that.
At various points he has pulled out a performance and a result that has been extremely impressive. unfortunately, he then tends to put together a run which is far, far worse than what came before, which makes the brief spark of improvement pretty worthless.
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There comes a point where something has to be done, before it's too late. My fear is the present board won't see this or don't want to see this point in time. Then it's too late. Not May teams survive the drop once you're in the bottom 3 around dec / jan time.
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It may not be as irrelevant as you think. We tend to kick towards the Holt in the second half. So, without doing the research I'd guess it means we very rarely score in the second half at home, which may be a pointer to one of our footballing / tactical problems? Ie - get our noses in front, sit back, concede late, go home frustrated.
Absolutely - and here is that research.
Since we played Cardiff at the start of November last year we've scored two goals in the second half of league matches at Villa Park (Benteke's consolation against Arsenal and Delph's winner against Chelsea). It goes up to a whopping three if we include Helenius' in the cup defeat to Sheffield Utd.
That can definitely put in the 'not good enough' file.
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Baker & Kelly - The University of Turmoil
http://www.internettreehouse.co.uk/audio/turmil.mp3
http://www.internettreehouse.co.uk/audio/turml.mp3
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It may not be as irrelevant as you think. We tend to kick towards the Holt in the second half. So, without doing the research I'd guess it means we very rarely score in the second half at home, which may be a pointer to one of our footballing / tactical problems? Ie - get our noses in front, sit back, concede late, go home frustrated.
Absolutely - and here is that research.
Since we played Cardiff at the start of November last year we've scored two goals in the second half of league matches at Villa Park (Benteke's consolation against Arsenal and Delph's winner against Chelsea). It goes up to a whopping three if we include Helenius' in the cup defeat to Sheffield Utd.
That can definitely put in the 'not good enough' file.
Grant Holt scored in front of the Holte in the second half of the match against Fulham. Doesn't make it much better though!
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Lambert for me is in a curious limboland where he's not good enough to do the job but not doing badly enough to warrant the sack. I can't bring myself to actively want us to lose to bring about his dismissal. I'd accept it if it happened, shrug my shoulders and say it's probably for the best but I would much rather we started winning.
I can't think of another club at any professional level, where the current run wouldn't have got him the sack.
Or the run at the end of last season.
Or the run over Christmas in his first season.
Or the accumulated picture that from around the time of the Chelsea game last year, results have got progressively worse and we're now in a nosedive.
I think that Christmas in his first season broke him. He kept doing the same thing as earlier in the season because he couldn't think what else to do (rabbit in headlights.)
He took stock that first summer, basically shit himself at how close we'd come, resolved that we'd be tighter defensively with the 18 months of banging heads against walls that have followed (rabbit in headlights again)
I think he could get us playing half decent stuff based on the odd glimpses we see and what we saw at Norwich. Unfortunately he no longer trusts himself or his players.
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It may not be as irrelevant as you think. We tend to kick towards the Holt in the second half. So, without doing the research I'd guess it means we very rarely score in the second half at home, which may be a pointer to one of our footballing / tactical problems? Ie - get our noses in front, sit back, concede late, go home frustrated.
Absolutely - and here is that research.
Since we played Cardiff at the start of November last year we've scored two goals in the second half of league matches at Villa Park (Benteke's consolation against Arsenal and Delph's winner against Chelsea). It goes up to a whopping three if we include Helenius' in the cup defeat to Sheffield Utd.
That can definitely put in the 'not good enough' file.
Now that *is* a proper statistic. And a damning one at that. My point was more that the end is irrelevant as it depends on the toss which end we play towards in each half. Looking through the rsults over the last year or so it occurred to me that the last Villa player to score at the Holte End might be Jordan Bowery before realising that it was in fact Aly Cissokho.
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It also shows how teams perceive us these days, how they rarely make us play to the Holte first half, we have not surely won every toss over the last year.
UTV
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There seems to have been a general downgrading of expectations when it comes to Villa in recent seasons, and it's infected the media too. This idea that Lerner has reined in the spending seems to have convinced everyone outside Villa that the constant stream of terrible performances and setting of dire new records is somehow to be expected.
I think the "lack of funds" argument has become a convenient cover that serves to deflect deserved criticism of poor performances.
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It may not be as irrelevant as you think. We tend to kick towards the Holt in the second half. So, without doing the research I'd guess it means we very rarely score in the second half at home, which may be a pointer to one of our footballing / tactical problems? Ie - get our noses in front, sit back, concede late, go home frustrated.
Absolutely - and here is that research.
Since we played Cardiff at the start of November last year we've scored two goals in the second half of league matches at Villa Park (Benteke's consolation against Arsenal and Delph's winner against Chelsea). It goes up to a whopping three if we include Helenius' in the cup defeat to Sheffield Utd.
That can definitely put in the 'not good enough' file.
Grant Holt scored in front of the Holte in the second half of the match against Fulham. Doesn't make it much better though!
As was Benteke's penalty winner against the Baggies.
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It may not be as irrelevant as you think. We tend to kick towards the Holt in the second half. So, without doing the research I'd guess it means we very rarely score in the second half at home, which may be a pointer to one of our footballing / tactical problems? Ie - get our noses in front, sit back, concede late, go home frustrated.
Absolutely - and here is that research.
Since we played Cardiff at the start of November last year we've scored two goals in the second half of league matches at Villa Park (Benteke's consolation against Arsenal and Delph's winner against Chelsea). It goes up to a whopping three if we include Helenius' in the cup defeat to Sheffield Utd.
That can definitely put in the 'not good enough' file.
Grant Holt scored in front of the Holte in the second half of the match against Fulham. Doesn't make it much better though!
As was Benteke's penalty winner against the Baggies.
Interesting how certain "stats" get fabricated.
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How about these, then?
(https://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/p526x296/10806466_969820216378870_4575755757511542955_n.jpg?oh=90ffe15e53cbda4486006752530e00fe&oe=55071A38)
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How about these, then?
[img width=400 height=299]https://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/p526x296/10806466_969820216378870_4575755757511542955_n.jpg?oh=90ffe15e53cbda4486006752530e00fe&oe=55071A38[/imago
Happy days...
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It may not be as irrelevant as you think. We tend to kick towards the Holt in the second half. So, without doing the research I'd guess it means we very rarely score in the second half at home, which may be a pointer to one of our footballing / tactical problems? Ie - get our noses in front, sit back, concede late, go home frustrated.
Absolutely - and here is that research.
Since we played Cardiff at the start of November last year we've scored two goals in the second half of league matches at Villa Park (Benteke's consolation against Arsenal and Delph's winner against Chelsea). It goes up to a whopping three if we include Helenius' in the cup defeat to Sheffield Utd.
That can definitely put in the 'not good enough' file.
Grant Holt scored in front of the Holte in the second half of the match against Fulham. Doesn't make it much better though!
As was Benteke's penalty winner against the Baggies.
Interesting how certain "stats" get fabricated.
Is it? That a quick scan down the BBC results page meant I missed two goals which I thought were in the first half. I'm not sure that it is all that interesting really.
Do you feel that scoring four second half goals at home in the last thirteen months rather than two is therefore nothing to be concerned about?
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How about these, then?
(https://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/p526x296/10806466_969820216378870_4575755757511542955_n.jpg?oh=90ffe15e53cbda4486006752530e00fe&oe=55071A38)
Fuck.
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It may not be as irrelevant as you think. We tend to kick towards the Holt in the second half. So, without doing the research I'd guess it means we very rarely score in the second half at home, which may be a pointer to one of our footballing / tactical problems? Ie - get our noses in front, sit back, concede late, go home frustrated.
Absolutely - and here is that research.
Since we played Cardiff at the start of November last year we've scored two goals in the second half of league matches at Villa Park (Benteke's consolation against Arsenal and Delph's winner against Chelsea). It goes up to a whopping three if we include Helenius' in the cup defeat to Sheffield Utd.
That can definitely put in the 'not good enough' file.
Grant Holt scored in front of the Holte in the second half of the match against Fulham. Doesn't make it much better though!
As was Benteke's penalty winner against the Baggies.
Interesting how certain "stats" get fabricated.
I think we can all agree that 4 goals at home this season (two of which were in one game) is not good enough.
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Lambert for me is in a curious limboland where he's not good enough to do the job but not doing badly enough to warrant the sack. I can't bring myself to actively want us to lose to bring about his dismissal. I'd accept it if it happened, shrug my shoulders and say it's probably for the best but I would much rather we started winning.
I can't think of another club at any professional level, where the current run wouldn't have got him the sack.
Or the run at the end of last season.
Or the run over Christmas in his first season.
Or the accumulated picture that from around the time of the Chelsea game last year, results have got progressively worse and we're now in a nosedive.
I think that Christmas in his first season broke him. He kept doing the same thing as earlier in the season because he couldn't think what else to do (rabbit in headlights.)
He took stock that first summer, basically shit himself at how close we'd come, resolved that we'd be tighter defensively with the 18 months of banging heads against walls that have followed (rabbit in headlights again)
I think he could get us playing half decent stuff based on the odd glimpses we see and what we saw at Norwich. Unfortunately he no longer trusts himself or his players.
I think he was fearless in that first season, he stuck to his principles, players got into the team on merit ( granted in many cases is was down to rivals being utter dross) and it was eventually rewarded as we not only stayed up but were vibrant if naive.
Then after a decent start, the loss of Okore seemed to derail the whole thing in hindsight, he shit himself and retreated, found most of his new recruits were shit and since then it's been a succession of injuries and clustersfucks.
The about turn in policy itself would have undermined his credibility in itself with the current squad, and that would soon enough be transferred to new players, let alone the back room shennanigans, and if that was agreed what was needed then another man should have been appointed to carry it out.
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That graphic is pretty terrifying.
If you put a league table together based on final 10 games of last seasons through to now I can imagine where we'd be too.
Still, the boss 'doesn't believe in stats' does he?
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How about these, then?
(https://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/p526x296/10806466_969820216378870_4575755757511542955_n.jpg?oh=90ffe15e53cbda4486006752530e00fe&oe=55071A38)
Fuck.
There is no limboland... he's been shit. Come down VP to be entertained.
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How about these, then?
(https://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/p526x296/10806466_969820216378870_4575755757511542955_n.jpg?oh=90ffe15e53cbda4486006752530e00fe&oe=55071A38)
Yet not 20th in the most important position, and yet win pick up four points this week we are mid-table.
But hey, I'm planted.
UTV
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How about these, then?
[img width=400 height=299]https://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/p526x296/10806466_969820216378870_4575755757511542955_n.jpg?oh=90ffe15e53cbda4486006752530e00fe&oe=55071A38[/imago
Happy days...
We were table toppers back then. Table toppers. Inverse ones, admittedly, but hey ho.
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How about these, then?
(https://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/p526x296/10806466_969820216378870_4575755757511542955_n.jpg?oh=90ffe15e53cbda4486006752530e00fe&oe=55071A38)
Yet not 20th in the most important position, and yet win pick up four points this week we are mid-table.
But hey, I'm planted.
UTV
The problem is, at the rate we accrue points, those four points would take about a month for us to get them, and not only that, we'd need to be hoping everyone between us and mid table picks up no points in the meantime.
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I think he was fearless in that first season, he stuck to his principles, players got into the team on merit ( granted in many cases is was down to rivals being utter dross) and it was eventually rewarded as we not only stayed up but were vibrant if naive.
I agree entirely.
In as much as Westley (I don't want to single him out, but he's the only one making the point) feels that Lambert is not getting the support he deserves, it is worth noting that, at the end of the first season on here, Lambert had immense support levels.
It was last season that he started to really let us down.
I can't speak for anyone else, but although i want us to sack him ASAP, I will still be pretty gutted about it. I really, really wanted it to work out for him, and supported him for ages, so as gutted it hasn't worked, but it hasn't. And not only that, it seems to be getting worse.
Lambert has had immense levels of support. I can't think of many clubs where the fans would have been behind him as much as we were after the first season.
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It may not be as irrelevant as you think. We tend to kick towards the Holt in the second half. So, without doing the research I'd guess it means we very rarely score in the second half at home, which may be a pointer to one of our footballing / tactical problems? Ie - get our noses in front, sit back, concede late, go home frustrated.
Absolutely - and here is that research.
Since we played Cardiff at the start of November last year we've scored two goals in the second half of league matches at Villa Park (Benteke's consolation against Arsenal and Delph's winner against Chelsea). It goes up to a whopping three if we include Helenius' in the cup defeat to Sheffield Utd.
That can definitely put in the 'not good enough' file.
Grant Holt scored in front of the Holte in the second half of the match against Fulham. Doesn't make it much better though!
As was Benteke's penalty winner against the Baggies.
Interesting how certain "stats" get fabricated.
Like us being 20th in every attacking aspect of the game. :-[ :-[
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How about these, then?
(https://scontent-b-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/p526x296/10806466_969820216378870_4575755757511542955_n.jpg?oh=90ffe15e53cbda4486006752530e00fe&oe=55071A38)
That stat is so last week,
since we scored on Saturday and had loads of attempts we would have moved up to at least err.......19th maybe on one of the categories
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Is that graphic still current ?? Small consolation I know but I thought we'd soared above hull to 19th in 1 or 2 areas ?
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Can you imagine if Lambert was Newcastle manager, with these results and performances? The Geordies would have burned down
St James' the Sports Direct Arena by now...
Not saying the Byker Grurve brigade are the sort of supporters we should be emulating, of course. But still, I think Lambert's been given a very fair crack of the whip by those saintly lot who stump up their hard-earned cash to go to games.
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Is that graphic still current ?? Small consolation I know but I thought we'd soared above hull to 19th in 1 or 2 areas ?
I think it was from before the Burnley game.
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Graham Taylor was mentioned in another thread, it really needs someone like him to sort it all out. It seems like an avalanche at the moment, gathering downhill motion, getting worse. Action is required but Randy is fiddling whilst Rome burns. He'll be selling the club at a song when we go down. I want our Villa back.
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I really do think short of us going into administration or something like that we're in about as much of a shambles as I can remember us being.
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My fear is if we drop into the bottom 3 we won't get out. Not with the current set up anyway.
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I am not normally a supporter of simple reasons and simple solutions but in this case I see a core malaise, namely the owner never being on the premises or so rarely that it is not significant,. The old adage about the mice playing while the cat is away fitting the situation perfectly. With no head to the structure the culture of office and career politics takes hold and the direction of the organization is lost in a welter of point scoring and staff vendettas.
I do confess however that in moments of black despair for the club I fantasize that like in Cold Comfort Farm, there is something nasty in the woodshed at Villa Park. This fantasy was given substance by the revelation of the bullying but the chaos continues post C and K so it can't be that. I did hear a vague whisper from the fan of another club that certain Villa players were gambling very heavily and losing heavily but no substantiation of the rumour materialized so I drifted back to my first idea outlined above. We are in a horrible muddle because the owner does not care that we are in a horrible muddle. He is demob happy and somebody else will have to clean his mess up.
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Lerner has been the biggest long term problem with his instant austerity and dreadful appointments but Lambert has, unfortunatley, turned into a greater short term problem.
He simply must go or I really think we'll get relegated. We're getting worse the longer he stays here.
Trouble is, with a dumb, absentee owner who just want to sell it suits him to keep Lambert to hold the reins till we get sold. We know that's crazy but that's how Lerner seems to think.
In short, we're Donald Ducked.
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You know, the most bizarre thing in the Lambert era - a time where he has had extraordinary backing from owner and fans - is the way players have been favourited or ostracised. I say this because there several times on Saturday when I thought Bacuna would have been a perfect player to bring (not least when we had a free kick just outside the box, with about 15 mins to go). Bacuna has been almost completely defted by Lambert.
He is not the manger I thought we were getting when he came from Naarwich.
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He is not the manager he was at Norwich by a long chalk. With us he has made a lot of failed knee jerk gambles, the young and hungry theory, the bomb squad, the cultivation of a favourites mentality, the ostracizing of those who oppose him, the bullying - these mistakes have, quite correctly, put his job on the line. To cling to his job he has had to grovel to Lerner and Faulkner and now Fox to convince them he is the man for the job. His line of pleading to them is the same as his line of pleading to the media, to whit, Look how much money I am saving you getting in players like Grant Holt and Joe Cole and shaving down the squad with loan-outs, and they buy it and he goes again.
In reality he has turned himself into a manager whose first priority is not the success of his team but his own survival.
It is like buying a sheepdog then selling all your sheep and using the collie to fetch your newspaper from the corner shop.
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I was wary of him being MON mark 2 when we were linked and didn't want him at first but was won over by Norwich fans adoration and the German learning route. He is just as odd as mad Martin and actually less effective by miles. Just a shambolic manager. Any other chairman would have sacked him by now. Lerner is going to get a very very sharp shock when we are relegated and hurtling towards administration. We are currently one of those games golf balls nestled against a big front wall of a bunker. No chance of escape and you wince looking at us.
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Problem is if/when Lambert leaves it's not like the turmoil will be abated. We need someone like Graham Taylor? Yes we do, but who could do a job like that now. He may well be out there somewhere, sure, but to be on Lerner's radar he'd need to have a reccomendation letter. More likely even when Lambert goes, it will have the same effect on Villa's slide as when Graham Turner left in the 80s.
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what about the bearer of the recommendation letter himself? One last challenge for SAF?
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At least we're not Leeds.
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Im sure there have been worse times in The history of Aston Villa,
Before I can remember in the 60's and stuff
But since I have been following Villa from the mid 70's, I can't think of a worse prolonged time of incompetence and general doom and gloom
Like others have said we desperately need a Saunders, Taylor even a Big Ron but we really do need something to change at the Villa for all our sakes
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It worries me purely because we need to have a clear direction reguardless of who the manager is. I don't think it affects what happens on the pitch too much, but for the club to move forward both on and off the pitch we need more of a long term plan.
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Im sure there have been worse times in The history of Aston Villa,
Before I can remember in the 60's and stuff
But since I have been following Villa from the mid 70's, I can't think of a worse prolonged time of incompetence and general doom and gloom
Like others have said we desperately need a Saunders, Taylor even a Big Ron but we really do need something to change at the Villa for all our sakes
john the mid 80's were really bad and had the internet existed back then would it have felt even worse. Let's face it having a place like this to collectively gripe in addition to the 24hr reminders via various forms of media make bad situations feel even worse.
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Im sure there have been worse times in The history of Aston Villa,
Before I can remember in the 60's and stuff
But since I have been following Villa from the mid 70's, I can't think of a worse prolonged time of incompetence and general doom and gloom
Like others have said we desperately need a Saunders, Taylor even a Big Ron but we really do need something to change at the Villa for all our sakes
john the mid 80's were really bad and had the internet existed back then would it have felt even worse. Let's face it having a place like this to collectively gripe in addition to the 24hr reminders via various forms of media make bad situations feel even worse.
True, but this is 4 years of prolonged shitness though,
with no end in sight at the moment
We did go down in the 80's but then had a ball in the second div, came straight back up and I can't remember the fog of doom lasting quite so long back then,
but like you say I might have my rose tinted glasses on