Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Legion on November 05, 2014, 09:28:35 PM

Title: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: Legion on November 05, 2014, 09:28:35 PM
(https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/1505524_956006664426892_6443920593525502808_n.jpg?oh=9fdade8e9d6c860c15a725ce3ff8cfb6&oe=54E11D75)
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: Legion on November 05, 2014, 09:29:05 PM
(https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1920030_956006711093554_6902302654090644078_n.jpg?oh=cfe38a35c803d463bdb5f0e6f2d3263a&oe=54E4CCE4)
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: Legion on November 05, 2014, 09:29:57 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/1379542_956006647760227_7835211451217156472_n.jpg?oh=06c715a9bb0f2b1060170ffd0a500fab&oe=54EE1BCF&__gda__=1424891918_cd504c3ca58d26867e9f10eb6449a6c7)
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: Legion on November 05, 2014, 09:30:39 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/1377137_956006694426889_6707931080595298873_n.jpg?oh=b26348f90c528c1c4352763314901f6e&oe=54DF1664&__gda__=1424256026_0c576520e34a6dca734df5ddae7c6b79)
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: Legion on November 05, 2014, 09:31:05 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/1506511_956006584426900_5874758791931202739_n.jpg?oh=a18107d006d85b8e9bd9f70270b00a03&oe=54F249BB&__gda__=1423852666_b5c2c31be77329d9ae713a48b64448be)
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: Legion on November 05, 2014, 09:31:40 PM
(https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1535498_956006697760222_3836933066024885773_n.jpg?oh=b05a2e29413e835593bfd78dffe481fa&oe=54DE9B00)
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 05, 2014, 09:34:19 PM
There's been quite a lot of work done on the churchyard and Ramsay's grave is in remarkable condition considering it's been neglected for decades. Now it can be seen and accessed properly the Trust are going to pay for it to be repaired soon.
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: saunders_heroes on November 05, 2014, 11:36:46 PM
I know where McGregor's grave is, but where is Ramsay's?
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 05, 2014, 11:41:44 PM
I know where McGregor's grave is, but where is Ramsay's?

Level with the bottom of the boating lake island there's a path running up the hill. The top photo was taken from between the seventh and eighth trees on the left. That's Peter Warrilow standing next to the grave.
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: saunders_heroes on November 05, 2014, 11:56:13 PM
Credit to the Trust for repairing the grave (even though it still looks pretty good). Its something to be rightfully proud of.
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 06, 2014, 12:03:00 AM
Credit to the Trust for repairing the grave (even though it still looks pretty good). Its something to be rightfully proud of.

Yes, it was surprising how it's born up when a lot of the ones around it have totally collapsed. I also noticed that the lettering on Ramsay's (almost eighty years old) is wearing as well as McGregor's (less than three years). They built 'em to last in those days.
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: saunders_heroes on November 06, 2014, 12:15:26 AM
Credit to the Trust for repairing the grave (even though it still looks pretty good). Its something to be rightfully proud of.

Yes, it was surprising how it's born up when a lot of the ones around it have totally collapsed. I also noticed that the lettering on Ramsay's (almost eighty years old) is wearing as well as McGregor's (less than three years). They built 'em to last in those days.

Perhaps it's because it's smaller and robust  and not as open to the wind and rain etc, but it certainly stood the test of time.
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: brian green on November 06, 2014, 06:36:35 AM
Sorry to be thick, but are both graves in the same cemetery/graveyard?   If plants or bulbs or anything like that are required by the Trust please let me know, I will gladly supply any quantity free of charge.
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: villasjf on November 06, 2014, 09:37:50 AM
I am so glad they havent been desicrated by fans of other clubs.
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: Tom_Mc9? on November 06, 2014, 11:25:58 AM
I know we take the mick out of the other fans, but I don't think any of them are as bad as damaging people's graves.
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: Tony Erdington on November 06, 2014, 11:33:40 AM
Maybe we should explain to Randolf this is the esteem we hold our people in, Aston Villa are for life and beyond.

Holte Enders in the Sky!
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: amfy on November 06, 2014, 11:58:40 AM
to be fair - The Villa heritage part is what Randy does well. Its the football bit he seems to struggle with.
The McGregor statue was a Trust initiative, but it was with big thanks to Randy that it came to fruition.
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 06, 2014, 12:11:10 PM
Randy has shown more respect for our history in eight years than his predecessor showed in forty.
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: MarkM on November 06, 2014, 12:29:51 PM
Randy has shown more respect for our history in eight years than his predecessor showed in forty.

Just a shame about the present!
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: UK Redsox on November 06, 2014, 01:05:43 PM
I know we take the mick out of the other fans, but I don't think any of them are as bad as damaging people's graves.

The incident of that nature that I can think of involved the NFL rather than football and even then, there wasn't any actual damage as such

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/05/man-pees-art-modell-grave-charges_n_5652837.html
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: BC54 VFC on November 07, 2014, 12:29:45 AM
Sorry to be thick, but are both graves in the same cemetery/graveyard?   

Yes, Brian, they're both at St. Mary's Parish Church, Hamstead Road, Handsworth.
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 07, 2014, 12:38:07 AM
Sorry to be thick, but are both graves in the same cemetery/graveyard?   

Yes, Brian, they're both at St. Mary's Parish Church, Hamstead Road, Handsworth.

And whoever has tidied the place up has done a wonderful job.
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: brian green on November 07, 2014, 08:17:41 PM
I must go and take a look.   See if I can find a spot for a pocketfull of claret crocuses and blue crocuses.
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: silhillvilla on November 07, 2014, 08:22:12 PM
Great pics Legion thanks.
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: brian green on November 07, 2014, 09:00:47 PM
Yes, very Halloweenesque.
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: Legion on November 08, 2014, 10:09:07 AM
I simply uploaded them as a favour for Mr Woodhall. I did not take these. I took the ones at the commemorative ceremony a few years ago.

Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: Legion on November 08, 2014, 10:11:17 AM
(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u149/HVLegion/HandV/McGregor%20grave/IMGP0203.jpg) (http://s167.photobucket.com/user/HVLegion/media/HandV/McGregor%20grave/IMGP0203.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: Legion on November 08, 2014, 10:11:43 AM
(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u149/HVLegion/HandV/McGregor%20grave/IMGP0202.jpg) (http://s167.photobucket.com/user/HVLegion/media/HandV/McGregor%20grave/IMGP0202.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: Legion on November 08, 2014, 10:12:14 AM
(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u149/HVLegion/HandV/McGregor%20grave/IMGP0201.jpg) (http://s167.photobucket.com/user/HVLegion/media/HandV/McGregor%20grave/IMGP0201.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: Legion on November 08, 2014, 10:12:42 AM
(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u149/HVLegion/HandV/McGregor%20grave/IMGP0200.jpg) (http://s167.photobucket.com/user/HVLegion/media/HandV/McGregor%20grave/IMGP0200.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: Legion on November 08, 2014, 10:13:28 AM
(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u149/HVLegion/HandV/McGregor%20grave/IMGP0199.jpg) (http://s167.photobucket.com/user/HVLegion/media/HandV/McGregor%20grave/IMGP0199.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: Matt Collins on November 08, 2014, 11:56:14 AM
Sorry to be thick, but are both graves in the same cemetery/graveyard?   

Yes, Brian, they're both at St. Mary's Parish Church, Hamstead Road, Handsworth.

And whoever has tidied the place up has done a wonderful job.

Along with Joseph Priestley, James watt and (I think) Matthew bolton.

Fantastic period in Birmingham's history. Comfortably the peak.
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: brian green on November 08, 2014, 07:01:35 PM
Any less modest city would have used the resting places of such giants of industry to create a themed cemetery for tourists.
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 08, 2014, 08:56:58 PM
Jack Hughes (first captain and goalscorer) is buried there as well.
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: LeeB on November 08, 2014, 09:17:43 PM
(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u149/HVLegion/HandV/McGregor%20grave/IMGP0199.jpg) (http://s167.photobucket.com/user/HVLegion/media/HandV/McGregor%20grave/IMGP0199.jpg.html)

"She was like a daughter to me...."
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: BC54 VFC on November 08, 2014, 10:44:59 PM
Sorry to be thick, but are both graves in the same cemetery/graveyard?   

Yes, Brian, they're both at St. Mary's Parish Church, Hamstead Road, Handsworth.

And whoever has tidied the place up has done a wonderful job.

Thanks, Dave, I'll pass your kind comments on to the Church Wardens.

I can also exclusively reveal that following the long, and still current, interregnum resulting from the retirement of the Rev. Brian Hall, a new vicar will soon be announced for the Parish, and is likely to start his duties after next Easter.
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 08, 2014, 10:50:44 PM
Sorry to be thick, but are both graves in the same cemetery/graveyard?   

Yes, Brian, they're both at St. Mary's Parish Church, Hamstead Road, Handsworth.

And whoever has tidied the place up has done a wonderful job.

Thanks, Dave, I'll pass your kind comments on to the Church Wardens.

I can also exclusively reveal that following the long, and still current, interregnum resulting from the retirement of the Rev. Brian Hall, a new vicar will soon be announced for the Parish, and is likely to start his duties after next Easter.

That's good news. I spoke to one of the Wardens last week. I trust the new man will be aware of the heritage he's being entrusted with.
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: martin o`who?? on November 09, 2014, 04:35:47 PM
Are probably being turned in right now.
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: DesBremner on November 10, 2014, 01:40:54 PM
An article from the League Managers magazine

Hall of Fame George Ramsey


http://www.themanager-magazine.com/issue21/#62

Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 10, 2014, 03:01:48 PM
An article from the League Managers magazine

Hall of Fame George Ramsey


http://www.themanager-magazine.com/issue21/#62



And no mention of Joe Grierson.
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: Ron Manager on November 10, 2014, 04:09:02 PM
An article from the League Managers magazine

Hall of Fame George Ramsey


http://www.themanager-magazine.com/issue21/#62



And no mention of Joe Grierson.

Difficult to find out much about Joe Grierson Dave. I thought there may be something in the Archie Hunter book. There isnt. Next time I am in Birmingham I will have a look through the newspapers of that time. They are all on computer so its possible something might show up.
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 10, 2014, 04:16:26 PM
An article from the League Managers magazine

Hall of Fame George Ramsey


http://www.themanager-magazine.com/issue21/#62



And no mention of Joe Grierson.

Difficult to find out much about Joe Grierson Dave. I thought there may be something in the Archie Hunter book. There isnt. Next time I am in Birmingham I will have a look through the newspapers of that time. They are all on computer so its possible something might show up.


I've hardly seen anything about him, even in Si Page's 1897 book which was pretty definitive. This recent myth about Ramsay the manager completely ignores that fact that Grierson trained the team, which makes me wonder if he might have been the only one of his kind in the country. And if you're looking through contemporary papers, try to find the Birmingham Morning News of 16th March 1875, which reportedly contains a match report from aston Brook St Mary's. I've never been able to locate it.
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: Ron Manager on November 25, 2014, 04:41:21 PM
Had a look today. The Birmingham Morning News for that period Mar 1875 is missing unfortunately. The Library people said the papers must have been destroyed by accident or something along those lines. Had a look at 1874 but once again the relevant period is missing. I am afraid the report of Villa's first ever match is lost forever.
Title: Re: Ramsay and McGregor's Graves
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 25, 2014, 05:21:20 PM
Had a look today. The Birmingham Morning News for that period Mar 1875 is missing unfortunately. The Library people said the papers must have been destroyed by accident or something along those lines. Had a look at 1874 but once again the relevant period is missing. I am afraid the report of Villa's first ever match is lost forever.

There is a copy that contains a match report from 2nd January 1875, which was between Aston Unity FC and what their records calls Aston Villa but which the contemporary report says was a scratch side, adding that Aston Villa were unable to field a team. This begs the question that, if this was due to be our first game, why the fact wasn't mentioned in the report. Someone has seen the March report because the Soccer History magazine had an article about it; getting a copy might at least prove one thing beyond doubt. 
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal