Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: richardhubbard on September 02, 2014, 06:56:22 PM
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Who our best 11 when fit?
Mine
Guzan
Hutton Vlaar Senderos Sissoko
Delph Sanchez
Cleverley
Grealish Weimann
Benteke
Subs Given, Bacuna, Okore, Richardson , Ngzobia, Kozak, Gabby
That the strongest villa side in a while
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For me:
Guzan
Hutton Vlaar Senderos Sissokho
Westwood
Delph Cleverly
Gabby Weimann
Benteke
In tougher games take out Gabby or Weimann for Sanchez to sit in front of the back 4
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Westwood has to be in the squad at least. Quietly been one of our best three players this season so far.
Guzan
Hutton Vlaar Senderos Cissokho
Delph Westwood
Weimann Cleverley Grealish
Benteke
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Guz
Hutton
Vlaar
Okore (tough as Senderos deserves it atm, just really like what I saw of Okore last season)
Cissokho
Sanchez
Delph
Cleverley
Weimann
Benteke
Grealish (imo when he finally starts for us he'll stay starting for us such will be his impact)
From that our bench will potentially have some game turning options aswell, N'zogbia, Joe Cole, Gabby and Kozak all on there.
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Could now go to a diamond formation of:
Guzan
Hutton Senderos Vlaar Sissokho
Sanchez
Cleverley Delph
Grealish
Benteke Gabby
Could play Richardson on the left of the three and move Delph further forward, or could play Cole or N'Zogbia in that position if they can find some form.
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------------Guzan
Hutton Okore Vlaar Sissokho
-----------Sanchez
-------Westwood Delph
Cleverley --------- Richardson
-----------Benteke
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Guzan
Hutton Okore Vlaar Cissokho
Sanchez
Cleverley Delph
Grealish
Kozak Benteke
Subs Given Senderos Richardson Westwood N'Zogbia Gabby Weimann
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Guzan
Hutton Okore Vlaar Cissokho
Sanchez
Cleverley Delph
Grealish
Kozak Benteke
Subs Given Senderos Richardson Westwood N'Zogbia Gabby Weimann
We should try that asap
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Guzan
Hutton
Vlaar
Okore/Senderos
Cissokho
Delph
Westwood
N'Zogbia
Grealish
Sanchez
Benteke
Given
Cleverley
Agbonlahor
Weimann/Kozak
Bacuna
Richardson
Senderos/Okore
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that's the deepest Villa squad in a good while and a lot of different options. I just hope Lambert rotates the squad a bit and starts playing according to the opposition. We have the luxury of doing so now and need to take advantage of that.
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For me the key thing here is that we have options on the bench that we can rely upon.
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It's nice to be able to play at this at a time when the team is doing OK! Anyway, as it stands I think I'd go for:
Guzan
Hutton Vlaar Senderos Cissokho
Cleverley Westwood Delph
Grealish N'Zogbia
Agbonlahor
But then when everyone is fit and up to speed:
Guzan
Hutton Vlaar Okore Cissokho
Cleverley Sanchez Delph
Grealish N'Zogbia
Benteke
But even then, and I never thought I'd say this, that seems pretty harsh on Senderos on his current performances. And Westwood's been pretty good, too.
Blimey! Them's honest to goodness options!
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Everyone plumping for young Jack despite him barely playing for us yet. No pressure, kid.
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Everyone plumping for young Jack despite him barely playing for us yet. No pressure, kid.
In the next few weeks he'll start a game for us in the PL, it's building up to that with his increased sub appearences.
If it's an Albrighton type full debut then he'll be in the team for a while although I hope unlike Albrighton we don't keep playing him to death and take him out to rest him when neccesary.
Albrighton was overplayed imo in 10/11 especially as we were playing Young behind the striker at the time which was ridiculous.
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I don't think he will. He will be used as an impact sub.
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He'll start a game for us sometime before he hits 30 I reckon. ;)
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Everyone plumping for young Jack despite him barely playing for us yet. No pressure, kid.
It's probably the result of what is looking like it might turn out to be be the only transfer mistake of the summer - the signing of Joe Cole. If Cole was up to speed and doing well (and I for one hope he soon is) then Jack Grealish could be brought on gradually. Saying that, some players have been first team regulars at the age of 18, so it might be time to put him in if it's felt he is ready.
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Westwood has to be in the squad at least. Quietly been one of our best three players this season so far.
Guzan
Hutton Vlaar Senderos Cissokho
Delph Westwood
Weimann Cleverley Grealish
Benteke
I'm with you on this, with Sanchez for Cleverley if we need a bit more grunt cover in the centre.
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Guzan
Hutton Vlaar Senderos Cissokho
Sanchez Westwood
Cleverley Delph
Weimann
Benteke
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The best thing for me is that for the first time in a long time we actually have a squad. The best 11 can be determined on a game to game basis according to players' form and the tactics we want to use against the opponent.
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I made the point last night, Lambert's u-turn on players has seen nine of his signings leave, with the ones coming in (or being promoted from the bomb squad) all having Premiership experience. Glad he has done it, pity it's taken two years and too many horror performances to do it.
Onwards and upwards!
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Westwood has to be in the squad at least. Quietly been one of our best three players this season so far.
Guzan
Hutton Vlaar Senderos Cissokho
Delph Westwood
Weimann Cleverley Grealish
Benteke
I'm with you on this, with Sanchez for Cleverley if we need a bit more grunt cover in the centre.
Seeing the games on Wednesday on Sunday, I personally think that we can only really have one of Sanchez or Westwood in midfield, as they both do the same job. Sanchez or Westwood with Cleverley and Delph either side for me.
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I made the point last night, Lambert's u-turn on players has seen nine of his signings leave, with the ones coming in (or being promoted from the bomb squad) all having Premiership experience. Glad he has done it, pity it's taken two years and too many horror performances to do it.
Onwards and upwards!
He does desrve credit for that and t shows he is learning. Only speculating, but maybe it has taken Keane to come in and tell him a few truths that PL maybe couldn't or maybe didn't want to see about players he had bought. Then there is also the question of the role the departed Chief Executive had in it all.
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Westwood has to be in the squad at least. Quietly been one of our best three players this season so far.
Guzan
Hutton Vlaar Senderos Cissokho
Delph Westwood
Weimann Cleverley Grealish
Benteke
I'm with you on this, with Sanchez for Cleverley if we need a bit more grunt cover in the centre.
Seeing the games on Wednesday on Sunday, I personally think that we can only really have one of Sanchez or Westwood in midfield, as they both do the same job. Sanchez or Westwood with Cleverley and Delph either side for me.
I think when we've got a tricky away fixture, we could play Sanchez and Westwood together to protect the defence.
Or they could play together but with Westwood being more license to get forward. I think he might be more suited to that and could get a few more assists and goals by doing that.
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Westwood has to be in the squad at least. Quietly been one of our best three players this season so far.
Best three players? You do know we've got 4 defenders who have been terrific so far, right?
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Not many picking Richardson. He's been first class.
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Not many picking Richardson. He's been first class.
Might revert to a wide position perhaps? If not then I'm sure we rotate in midfield and he will get his chances.
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I reckon we'll see Richardson as this year's Bacuna. Filling in at left-back, left-midfield, centre-midfield, number ten (as Lambert likes to call them)...
He'll play most games and see most of the pitch while doing so.
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First time in a good while it's actually tough to pick the team.
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Not many picking Richardson. He's been first class.
Hah! I completely forgot about Richardson, he's been impressive too so far. Maybe I'll put him in ahead of Grealish for the time being.
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This is the first time for years this has been tricky. If we can have an injury free run as per the MON years we can tinker with the team a wee bit depending who we play. We might even be able to leave someone out if there form dips. Crikey.
Thinking about Lambert's reign, actually since MON left injuries have been a massive problem here. To think we have had Petrov's illness, Okore, Benteke, Kozak, Nzogia, Gardener and Bent with terrible long term injuries it's no wonder we have struggled. Then you have the cutting of the wage bill. What a nightmare.
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Guzan
Hutton. Vlaar Senderos Aly
Sanchez Delph Richardson
Cleverley gabby/Charlie
Bentekkers
Westwood, given, Bacuna, wiseman, okore, Kozak/bent on bench. Much better squad. I hope for at least a mid way finish.
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I don't think he will. He will be used as an impact sub.
If Lambert was planning to start Jack, he wouldn't have brought in Cleverley.
I just hope that Jack isn't sent out on loan.
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Home games
Guzan
Sissoku Senderos Vlaar hutton
Sanchez
Richardson Delph Cleverley
N'zogbia
Benteke
away games
Guzan
Sissoku Senderos Vlaar hutton
Delph Sanchez Westwood
Agbonlahor Benteke Weimann
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Why change the formation just because of the venue?
Play the best formation for the team
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Why change the formation just because of the venue?
Play the best formation for the team
I figured we have more of the ball in our home games, so go positive.
Away games I tried to pick a hard working team with pace on the break.
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Why should we have more of the ball at home than away?
Two teams playing each other on the same size pitch with the same size ball. The only difference might be kit colour.
I can't get my head around why teams think they have to play differently depending on the venue.
Was the game always like this or is this concept something that only came in with Sky?
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Guzan
Hutton Vlaar Senderos Cissokho
Sanchez
Cleverley Delph
Weimann Agbonlahor
Benteke
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Why should we have more of the ball at home than away?
Two teams playing each other on the same size pitch with the same size ball. The only difference might be kit colour.
I can't get my head around why teams think they have to play differently depending on the venue.
Was the game always like this or is this concept something that only came in with Sky?
Because some teams rock up at villa park and are content to play for a point?
In those games the onus is usually on us to break the opposition down.
Wolves at home a few years ago springs to mind.
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Not many picking Richardson. He's been first class.
Could not agree more. First half at the weekend the number of times he was our furthest player forward, simply though making lung bursting runs from right to left was brilliant. It was the best example of an attacking midfielder really having a positive effect on the front line I have seen in a villa shirt in a while, and Delph was joining in too. Those 2 for me give us so much running and energy that they are very, very tough to drop right now.
Guzan
Hutton
Vlaar
Senderos (he has the shirt until form, injury or suspension allows someone in)
Cissokho
Westwood (Like Monty, I think he has started the season really well, almost in the form of the back end of his first season)
Delph
Cleverley
Richardson
Gabby
Benteke
Subs: Weimann, Kozak, Grealish, Sanchez, NZogbia, Okore, Given
Isn't it nice to actually have to think about the team you would pick though!
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Hmmmm the smell of optimism is in the air.
Now that has been sorely missed around these parts in recent years, long may it continue.
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Guzan
Hutton
Senderos
Vlaar
Cissokho
Westwood
Delph
Cleverley
Ricardson
Gabby
Benteke
christ, I had to think about this. Makes a change.
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Everyone to their own, but i just don't see how people can keep putting gabby and especially weimann out wide in an attacking 3 when we are choosing our best 11. Don't we all keep saying weimann is useless if not playing through the middle?
As Lambert doesn't do 'wingers' I'd personally go diamond.
------------Guzman-----------
Baldy---Baldy2----Baldy3---Bitoffuzz
------------Sanchez-----------
-------TC23--------Delph------
------------Grealish------------
-------Benteke-----Weimann------
Arguments could be made for jack being too young, so replace with cole/Zog or change formation and bring Richardson in/play TC23 further forward etc. Weimann could easily be replaced with Kozak depending on form although i think he links well with the beast. Gabby needs to go some way in proving to me he's still up to it. The Hull game was a very good start but I've seen it too often from him. Harsh on Westwood, come in for cleverley if he's shite, he's not strong enough to be our DM in my humble opinion.
We do actually have options and now actually have the opportunity to completely disagree with each other. Kushty.
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I am not liking all the hairist comments and blatant hairism regarding Villa's defence.
Having said that, I like Edgy's lineup.
Aly and the playerwhoisimpersonatingHutton can provide the width.
However, I think that the signing of TVC15 means that Jack won't be starting.
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One thing's for sure - when everyone's fit, there's going to be some fairly decent players not even making the bench. Wouldn't be at all surprised to see one or all of Lowton, Clark and Herd shipped-out on loan shortly, but I would also be concerned if I was Bacuna, Joe Cole and even N'Zogbia, unless he starts producing whilst he is in the side.
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N'Zogbia shouldn't be anywhere near the first 11.
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These line ups speak a little of the sort of functional sides Everton had under Moyes. A bit of craft, a lot of exprience and ability to work very, very hard.
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These line ups speak a little of the sort of functional sides Everton had under Moyes. A bit of craft, a lot of exprience and ability to work very, very hard.
After the last few seasons functional sounds good to me!
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I don't think he will. He will be used as an impact sub.
If Lambert was planning to start Jack, he wouldn't have brought in Cleverley.
I just hope that Jack isn't sent out on loan.
I don't know if we have enough options to do that really, but I think that would be a good step for him if he isn't going to feature that much. A loan move to a good Championship club (or maybe even abroad), with the instruction that he is to play in the "number 10" role would be good for his development.
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For me the key thing here is that we have options on the bench that we can rely upon.
the bench was always a good indicator of the strength of the first XI.....
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N'Zogbia shouldn't be anywhere near the first 11.
Did N'Zogbia do anything against Hull? I thought it was him who hit the post from the free kick but it turned out it was Westwood.
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These line ups speak a little of the sort of functional sides Everton had under Moyes. A bit of craft, a lot of exprience and ability to work very, very hard.
After the last few seasons functional sounds good to me!
Proud history. Functional future.
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N'Zogbia shouldn't be anywhere near the first 11.
Did N'Zogbia do anything against Hull? I thought it was him who hit the post from the free kick but it turned out it was Westwood.
should've gone to specsavers!!! (apologies if you have a serious eye problem obv)
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N'Zogbia shouldn't be anywhere near the first 11.
Based on this season so far I would say he flatters to deceive for half an hour and then goes missing, although in fairness that may partly be a fitness issue at present.
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These line ups speak a little of the sort of functional sides Everton had under Moyes. A bit of craft, a lot of exprience and ability to work very, very hard.
After the last few seasons functional sounds good to me!
It does to me too! I wasn't being critical, more an observation.
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Continuing to play the way we do...
Guzan
Hutton Vlaar Senderos Cissokho
Sanchez
Delph Richardson
N'Zogbia Agbonlahor
Benteke
But i wouldn't mind seeing...
Guzan
Vlaar Senderos Okore
Bacuna Richardson
Sanchez
Delph Cole
Benteke Agbonlahor
I think those 2 as wing backs would be excellent, although its hard to make a case for changing at the moment with the 7 points tally...!
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Why should we have more of the ball at home than away?
Two teams playing each other on the same size pitch with the same size ball. The only difference might be kit colour.
I can't get my head around why teams think they have to play differently depending on the venue.
Was the game always like this or is this concept something that only came in with Sky?
See MON's last 18 months as a guide. He had one plan, using the width and pace on the counter, it worked away when teams pushed on to us (as the home team) as we got in behind, and failed at home when teams sat back (as the away team) and we ran down blind alleys. Traditionally teams are expected to get more points at home than away and their tactical mentality is based around this. Always been the same as i remember.
Mind you, i do agree with you that we should stick to one formation with this team. Hopefully we can come up with a few more ideas than MON used to, enabling us to change a particular situation at any time.
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Having experience just allows us a little more time to integrate the younger players into the side. Unlike in recent years we've tossed them in out if sheer necessity. Now we can allow the likes of Grealish, Burke, Donacien etc to either work their way in or go in loan to get experience and add maturity to their games.
For me the squad as it is may not romp to victory too often but neither will it get battered and go into those prolonged slumps. There's enough older heads in their now with PL or international savvy to keep things on an even keel.
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Mind you, i do agree with you that we should stick to one formation with this team. Hopefully we can come up with a few more ideas than MON used to, enabling us to change a particular situation at any time.
I'd hope we don't.
If the situation calls for us to play 4-4-2 then do that. If it calls for 4-5-1 then do that. If it calls for 3-5-2 then do that.
Like you allude to, MON's biggest failing was being tactically inflexible and it was one of the things that Lambert looked really good at with Norwich. It would be nice if this season we got to see a bit of that here.
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Like you allude to, MON's biggest failing was being tactically inflexible
Oh how we miss the days of ...........'75 minutes on the clock, so here comes Ivanhoe'
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I'll be bald young so i can't say shizzle Mr Redsox.
I'm giving zog benefit of the doubt over his fitness, I'll decide soon if i think he should have a future.
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N'Zogbia shouldn't be anywhere near the first 11.
Did N'Zogbia do anything against Hull? I thought it was him who hit the post from the free kick but it turned out it was Westwood.
should've gone to specsavers!!! (apologies if you have a serious eye problem obv)
Both Westwood and N'Zogbia were standing over the ball before the kick. Best defense I can muster.
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One thing's for sure - when everyone's fit, there's going to be some fairly decent players not even making the bench. Wouldn't be at all surprised to see one or all of Lowton, Clark and Herd shipped-out on loan shortly, but I would also be concerned if I was Bacuna, Joe Cole and even N'Zogbia, unless he starts producing whilst he is in the side.
Bacuna is very versatile, you need one of those on the bench. N'zogbia I'd always have as an impact sub, certainly if it's between him and Joe Cole.
Our bench potentially will have quite a few game turning options. We could have Gabby and CNZ on it with their pace depending on the game situation and also Kozak if we want to lump it long in the last 20 minutes.
It makes a change.
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Guzan
Walker
Cahill
Vlaar
Cissokho**
Milner
Barry
Delph
Young
Benteke
Grealish***
** Just shows how bad things have been at LB for Villa recently that after just three games, Aly is already the best current or former (but active) Villa player in that position.
*** A slight case could be made for Downing.
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My Dad never stopped talking about this lot..Where are they today?
Defender
Peter Aldis England England 11/04/1927
George Ashfield England England 07/04/1934
Gordon Lee England England 13/07/1934
Pat Saward Ireland Ireland 17/08/1928
Midfielder
Vic Crowe Wales Wales 31/01/1932
Forward
Johnny Dixon England England 10/12/1923
Gerry Hitchens England England 08/10/1934
Peter McParland Northern Ireland Northern Ireland 25/04/1934
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Mind you, i do agree with you that we should stick to one formation with this team. Hopefully we can come up with a few more ideas than MON used to, enabling us to change a particular situation at any time.
I'd hope we don't.
If the situation calls for us to play 4-4-2 then do that. If it calls for 4-5-1 then do that. If it calls for 3-5-2 then do that.
Like you allude to, MON's biggest failing was being tactically inflexible and it was one of the things that Lambert looked really good at with Norwich. It would be nice if this season we got to see a bit of that here.
The only time I'd be happy to see 352 is if we're playing against a side in a traditional 442, the current 433/451 formations which are the standard pretty much force your fullbacks into a 5 at the back and you end up looking short on numbers and width going forward.
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Presume this has already been mentioned but Brew XI?
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Mind you, i do agree with you that we should stick to one formation with this team. Hopefully we can come up with a few more ideas than MON used to, enabling us to change a particular situation at any time.
I'd hope we don't.
If the situation calls for us to play 4-4-2 then do that. If it calls for 4-5-1 then do that. If it calls for 3-5-2 then do that.
Like you allude to, MON's biggest failing was being tactically inflexible and it was one of the things that Lambert looked really good at with Norwich. It would be nice if this season we got to see a bit of that here.
The only time I'd be happy to see 352 is if we're playing against a side in a traditional 442, the current 433/451 formations which are the standard pretty much force your fullbacks into a 5 at the back and you end up looking short on numbers and width going forward.
Completely agree. I think we showed last Saturday why 433 seemed to be the death of 352. It's interesting that after all the talk of 352 at the World Cup, it's hardly taken the premier league by storm. Three teams seem to be trying it. Hull and QPR both switched from it after looking horrendous. And Man U look awful with it.
Perhaps more suited to the more sedate pace of international football?
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Hull switched against us with how the game was going but it's been their first choice formation for the last couple of years. It does look like QPR might be scrapping it though despite bringing Glenn Hoddle in to coach it.
It's easy to get drawn into a discussion as to which formation is best but for me it always comes down to the players in the squad. Juve (and to a lesser degree, Hull) are able to use 3-5-2 effectively but it doesn't mean that other teams are automatically going to perform as well using it.
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Hull switched against us with how the game was going but it's been their first choice formation for the last couple of years. It does look like QPR might be scrapping it though despite bringing Glenn Hoddle in to coach it.
It's easy to get drawn into a discussion as to which formation is best but for me it always comes down to the players in the squad. Juve (and to a lesser degree, Hull) are able to use 3-5-2 effectively but it doesn't mean that other teams are automatically going to perform as well using it.
I think Bruce would be mental to persist with three centre backs if Davies and Dawson are going to be two of those.
Senderos looks exposed the further out of the centre he goes, wouldnt like to see him in that formation.
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Depends on the opposition doesn't it? We have options and alternatives now.
I think we've got 8 players who would be in my team regardless of who we're playing (at the minute):
Guzan
Hutton, Vlaar, Cissokho
Westwood, Delph
Gabby, Benteke
The outfield players there are pretty flexible in different roles as well. Which is why the squad has a nice balance to it, you could almost take any three of Okore, Richardson, Sanchez, Cleverley, N'Zogbia, Cole, Kozak and Weimann and change the shape of the side.
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Everyone to their own, but i just don't see how people can keep putting gabby and especially weimann out wide in an attacking 3 when we are choosing our best 11. Don't we all keep saying weimann is useless if not playing through the middle?
As Lambert doesn't do 'wingers' I'd personally go diamond.
------------Guzman-----------
Baldy---Baldy2----Baldy3---Bitoffuzz
------------Sanchez-----------
-------TC23--------Delph------
------------Grealish------------
-------Benteke-----Weimann------
Arguments could be made for jack being too young, so replace with cole/Zog or change formation and bring Richardson in/play TC23 further forward etc. Weimann could easily be replaced with Kozak depending on form although i think he links well with the beast. Gabby needs to go some way in proving to me he's still up to it. The Hull game was a very good start but I've seen it too often from him. Harsh on Westwood, come in for cleverley if he's shite, he's not strong enough to be our DM in my humble opinion.
We do actually have options and now actually have the opportunity to completely disagree with each other. Kushty.
I like the look of that setup orange man. How to include Richardson though?
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My Dad never stopped talking about this lot..Where are they today?
Defender
Peter Aldis England England 11/04/1927
George Ashfield England England 07/04/1934
Gordon Lee England England 13/07/1934
Pat Saward Ireland Ireland 17/08/1928
Midfielder
Vic Crowe Wales Wales 31/01/1932
Forward
Johnny Dixon England England 10/12/1923
Gerry Hitchens England England 08/10/1934
Peter McParland Northern Ireland Northern Ireland 25/04/1934
they are probably still looking for the other 3 players in their team : )
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Everyone to their own, but i just don't see how people can keep putting gabby and especially weimann out wide in an attacking 3 when we are choosing our best 11. Don't we all keep saying weimann is useless if not playing through the middle?
As Lambert doesn't do 'wingers' I'd personally go diamond.
------------Guzman-----------
Baldy---Baldy2----Baldy3---Bitoffuzz
------------Sanchez-----------
-------TC23--------Delph------
------------Grealish------------
-------Benteke-----Weimann------
Arguments could be made for jack being too young, so replace with cole/Zog or change formation and bring Richardson in/play TC23 further forward etc. Weimann could easily be replaced with Kozak depending on form although i think he links well with the beast. Gabby needs to go some way in proving to me he's still up to it. The Hull game was a very good start but I've seen it too often from him. Harsh on Westwood, come in for cleverley if he's shite, he's not strong enough to be our DM in my humble opinion.
We do actually have options and now actually have the opportunity to completely disagree with each other. Kushty.
I agree with the majority of the team in your post, although I would probably have Gabby in for Weimann. What really encourages me though is the bit in bold and the bench for the above team could be from Given, Okore, Westwood, Richardson, Cole, Weimann, Kozak, Bacuna, N'Zogbia.
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Bench doesn't look all that bad does it tom?
Not sure how i could fit Richardson in that formation really robbo, unfortunately I've not been able to see us play this year (just highlights). So I'm not exactly certain how he's being utilised, i just know he's more 'central' by the sounds of things. Wide left of a front 3 maybe? I think I'd rather him be out wide if we're going to play that than Weimann for instance. But i don't think we're suited to that formation anyway, directly in for Cleverely maybe if he's been showing the discipline to play in the middle?
What have you lot thought about how and where Richardson is playing? You could enlighten me.