Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Dave on August 27, 2014, 09:58:05 PM
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Oh dear.
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It's not like we have not been here before.
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Hey ho. Just happy it wasn't a league game.
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We are truly shit.
We should be able to take Leyton Orient at home even with some second choice players.
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I can only assume that as football is a results driven business then lambert must have been set very low targets.
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Meh
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It doesn't need investment for a so called team of professional premier league footballers to beat a team from league one who have never beaten a team in the cup from this league before.
It takes a fcukin manager who has got the first clue tactically of how to set a team out to go after its opposition and grind them into the dirt. Especially one from league bastard one.
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If Lambert had any self respect he would resign.
He won't .
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Fuck it. I'd rather have Keane in charge for the next 5-9 months than this clown
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Sighs
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You think randy gives a shit about the league cup?
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I know we are up for sale but we weren't when these debacles were well underway.
Chelsea away
Wigan home
Bradford
Millwall
Sheffield United
Leyton Orient
Regular trouncings by Spuds.
15-0 in three premier league games.
Lower points total than McLeish
I mean what more does anyone have to do to lose their job.
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Looks like were in for another record breaking season with Lambert in charge, the dullest, least winningest football ever witnessed by mankind. The miracle is he still has a job.
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The players should be too good for Orient. The blame once again lies with Lambert.
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Has lambert ever been to Wembley as a manager or player ?
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Lambert won't go or be sacked. Let's put that to one side.
We have shortcomings, and they were exposed without any need for Orient to do much. If anything, we beat ourselves tonight.
Again, money is the answer to a very serious problem. Four days and counting.
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Another spat with fans behind the dugout too... not 100% sure what happened but judging by the reaction of a few fans I think it must have been pretty inflammatory... their anger was well and truly directed at Lambert.
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Consensus seems to be grealish very encouraging, cole poor, bent missed two one on ones, bacuna missed two great chances
I really would consider starting grealish v hull. But I didn't see the game so will defer to those that did
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I take it all back. We've made progress tonight. We had 53 percent possession at home and one shot on target. More than normal. No doubt he will consider this to be 'fantastical'
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What do the BBC mean by a "shock elimination"? A shock to who?
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Another spat with fans behind the dugout too... not 100% sure what happened but judging by the reaction of a few fans I think it must have been pretty inflammatory... their anger was well and truly directed at Lambert.
?? What happened?
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Depressingly familiar territory. August should never feel like this.
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I just hope the sticky plaster signings made so far get us an extra few points this season.
So we can go again next season....
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The real problem here is that the chairman doesn't really give too much of a fuck anymore. While that us the case, nothing will change.
Thus far we've spent 7m in the window and our much needed "creator" is Joe Cole, a tubby relic who has done nothing for years.
Defending well in the first two league games is nice, but how many shots on target have we managed?
What a mess.
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Don't want to panic anyone but We've had 2 shots on target in 3 games.
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From despair to fucking where exactly?
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Don't want to panic anyone but We've had 2 shots on target in 3 games.
Oh, well it's not all bad news then.
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From despair to fucking where exactly?
Beachy Head ?
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Don't want to panic anyone but We've had 2 shots on target in 3 games.
Lambert was right about the stoke game. We had enough chances to win two games.
Two chances to be precise.
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Said it before but for ages our tactic is to sneak a goal against the run of play or on the break. If this fails or we go behind we are screwed. It has been like this for ages. There is no creativity or drive from midfield, and there hasn't been for years.
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The real problem here is that the chairman doesn't really give too much of a fuck anymore. While that us the case, nothing will change.
Thus far we've spent 7m in the window and our much needed "creator" is Joe Cole, a tubby relic who has done nothing for years.
Defending well in the first two league games is nice, but how many shots on target have we managed?
What a mess.
Thing is, we play in the Premier League as if every other team is better than us - which, more or less, might well be true. This did work for Crystal Palace last year, so who knows, but as soon as the emphasis is on us to force the match we flail helplessly.
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A team that lacks confidence at home is beaten by lower league opposition again. There is no way any momentum can be generated when weer keep on throwing results like this in. Instead of a draw followed by a comfy win and a crowd full of confidence we will go into the Hull game with a subdued crowd, a team with little confidence and will no doubt suffer because of it.
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I blame the players more than Lambert tonight. They should have had enough to beat Leyton fucking Orient and stake a claim for a first team place. Load of old arse biscuits.
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Another spat with fans behind the dugout too... not 100% sure what happened but judging by the reaction of a few fans I think it must have been pretty inflammatory... their anger was well and truly directed at Lambert.
?? What happened?
Really not sure, but it took half a dozen stewards to push back three or four Villa fans up the stairs and out. I know Lambert swore at fans last season, so I wonder if he's done it again and they reacted...
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We spend 6-8 million strengthening a poor side, Man Utd spend 130 million strengthening an ok side. Still we're both out of the first domestic trophy, if we buried our chances and won it still does not cover up the facts that we are going to win some and lose probably more this season.
We'll stay up as we are better off than last season but probably at times it ain't going to be fun. It's Off Topic we're I'm off I think, football is a fucking nightmare sport to follow.
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This is what happens when you drill your team to only play one way. We're ok against anyone better than us but time and time again we come up against weaker teams who just sit in and counter attack and we haven't got a clue what to do. Lower league teams must be licking their lips everytime we play one of them. Let's just hope we don't get another one in the FA cup. Especially at home.
It's been obvious for a while but our lack of goals is also very worrying. Until Benteke comes back I feel like we're going to see quite a few more low scoring affairs.
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So the orient fans gobbing off yesterday were right then.
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Whenever I feel the tiniest bit of hope they kick me in the teeth, we fuckin go again.
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Well we would have been out next round as we would've got our bogey team Sheffield Utd.
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To make matters worse I've just watched the Bradford Leeds game with my neighbour (big Bradford fan) 1-0 down with 5 mins to play won 2-1, kept bringing memories up of 2 years ago.
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Oh dear. That fleeting sense of early season optimism has dissipated already.
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I wonder what sort of place Tom Fox thinks he's walked into. Has he started yet? Spin and sell the Villa to the players we need Mr Fox and may the Lord McGrath be with you.
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Has lambert ever been to Wembley as a manager or player ?
he might get to Wembley as a hot dog seller....
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Has lambert ever been to Wembley as a manager or player ?
You never know, he might take us there!
League One playoff.
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Has lambert ever been to Wembley as a manager or player ?
he might get to Wembley as a hot dog seller....
Made me laugh.
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The only realistic chance of silverware (please no FA Cup jokes) gone 3 days before the end of August. Fcukin gut wrenching.
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One up front against a league one side (div 3 in my money) - once again the football genius is found out by lower league opposition.
Hutton and Senderos were probably our best two players . Too many of the other players played out of position- and Bacuna and Westwood were garbage - again .
Tom Fox has got one job to do at the minute - time to get his hands dirty .
We are sleep walking toward the Championship with this idiot in charge.
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I liked the look of Sanchez and Grealish tonight but underwhelmed by Cole, Bacuna and Bent. Keep reading posts on here claiming Bent will score if he is given chances, well he didn't, can't even get shots on target very often. Richardson is no full back is he? Oh well, conditioned to it I suppose. Now we can concentrate on the battle ahead.
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Has PL had his press conference yet?
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Has he mumbled anything to the press yet?
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Did Sanchez get injured?
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This is what happens when you drill your team to only play one way. We're ok against anyone better than us but time and time again we come up against weaker teams who just sit in and counter attack and we haven't got a clue what to do.
This is absolutely spot on.
It's also not as if we haven't had time to learn, either.
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Has lambert ever been to Wembley as a manager or player ?
he might get to Wembley as a hot dog seller....
All he'd give you was a stale bun with no sausage in it - a bit like the teams he sends out.
Joe Cole - would struggle to get in a retirement home for the bewildered's 5-a-side team.
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To be honest, it's now as likely we'll win the FA Cup as the League Cup, maybe even more so, since we wouldn't have to play twice in a semi final. But both are still as likely as Lord Lucan riding Shergar to victory in next year's National.
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I'm going to say it but what does Gordon Cowans do as I just don't see an improvement in the way we pass, create etc. It's fair enough blaming the manager but what about the coaches taking training?
I just don't see players becoming any better technically...surely if you train and practise these things you should see an improvement.
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Has lambert ever been to Wembley as a manager or player ?
You never know, he might take us there!
League One playoff.
On a positive note his contract is up at the end of the season. If he cared any for the club he would do the right thing but as i see it he's going to draw every last penny from his contract regardless.
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Aston Villa. Kicking you in the teeth since 2010
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Was Joe Cole playing that Walking Football from the Barclays ad?
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4 days left for the idiot Lerner to spend some money.....I'm not holding my breath
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This is what happens when you drill your team to only play one way. We're ok against anyone better than us but time and time again we come up against weaker teams who just sit in and counter attack and we haven't got a clue what to do.
This is absolutely spot on.
It's also not as if we haven't had time to learn, either.
I wrote in the match thread that he's a non-event of a manager - he picks a team, then does nothing. I don't see tactics, reactions or aggression. Villa just exist under Lambert's management, nothing more.
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Has lambert ever been to Wembley as a manager or player ?
he might get to Wembley as a hot dog seller....
Made me laugh.
If he peddles anything at Wembley it's most likely to be half-baked shite.
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ston Villa. Kicking you in the teeth since 2010
Long before that !
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Whenever I feel the tiniest bit of hope they kick me in the teeth, we fuckin go again.
This.
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I'm going to say it but what does Gordon Cowans do as I just don't see an improvement in the way we pass, create etc. It's fair enough blaming the manager but what about the coaches taking training?
I just don't see players becoming any better technically...surely if you train and practise these things you should see an improvement.
I think that's a fair point, actually. We get pats on the back for bringing youngsters through, but none of them set the world alight. Baker is an appalling defender, you couldn't trust Weimann to score if his life depended on it, and we've just had to loan our equivalent of Gerrard out to Brighton because we can't be sure he'll ever complete ninety minutes, let alone be the answer to a prayer. Grealish is rightly being feted, but even if he does succeed, he'll be ripped from us by some top four outfit if he shows any promise. I'd see him as an aberration even if he does forge a career in the top flight.
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I blame the players more than Lambert tonight. They should have had enough to beat Leyton fucking Orient and stake a claim for a first team place. Load of old arse biscuits.
That's exactly right.
These aren't squad players who,played tonight, but first teamers.
That said, I blame lambert as well...does that bloke learn fucking nothing from previous embarrassments?
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We do not have good enough forwards to play one up front as none of them can hold the ball up and create space for others. Even Benteke on his own struggles. We do not have good enough midfield players to play one up front because they cannot see how to support the front player.
So the question is "why do we try and play with one up front?".
Too many of our players stand and watch what is going on. Unless they have the ball or are going to directly receive it they are static.
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Went tonight. No incision. No creativity.
Lesson in Abject Management number 43 (or thereabouts) by Mr Paul Lambert.
He really should fuck off.
Missus has been a few times with me now. At half time she said '..it's always boring to watch when I come here..'
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Bacuna is another overrated waste of space.
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On the basis of the first two games there there is absolutely nothing to suggest he has the first clue on how to fix the frankly shocking home form since he joined.
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Another season another humiliation caused entirely by Lambert's lack of tactical nous. Any other manager would have been sacked long before adding yet another shameful statistic to his portfolio.
Two positives - I got back incredibly quickly; and we'd have played Sheffield United again in the next round so would have been knocked out pretty soon anyway.
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The player who scored the winner has got a big, stupid hipster beard as well, just to make matters worse.
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We go (out) again.
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At least we won't be last on The League Cup Show.
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I blame the players more than Lambert tonight. They should have had enough to beat Leyton fucking Orient and stake a claim for a first team place. Load of old arse biscuits.
That's exactly right.
These aren't squad players who,played tonight, but first teamers.
That said, I blame lambert as well...does that bloke learn fucking nothing from previous embarrassments?
Lambert deserves criticism as well, one up front at home to Orient? And that one is Darren Bent?
But apart from Bent I was happy with the side we put out, they really should have been able to win pretty comfortably tonight. Unless there are injury problems, I don't think any player brought in tonight is going to be worrying the starting 11 on Sunday. Maybe Grealish at a push. Not good enough from them.
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Bacuna is another overrated waste of space.
I am afraid I must agree with you. He was total garbage tonight.
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The biggest problem is that it is so frustrating.
Proven useless manager who is untouchable whilst the chairman - who won't spend - tries his best to get rid of a club he stopped giving too much of a toss about ages ago.
In terms of a "retreat", I suspect this is going to be long, messy and more than a bit depressing.
This record against lower leagues opposition is just too consistent to be a coincidence - Sheffield United, Milwall, Bradford, Orient. Too much evidence that he's tactically without a brain.
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Bacuna is another overrated waste of space.
I am afraid I must agree with you. He was total garbage tonight.
One free kick against man city apart - he's been absolute gash .
Another one of the football geniuses signings ......
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Shall we try a tabloid headline for tomorrow?
'Sir Vincealot'. No thought not.
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We look like a former middleweight boxing champion, punch drunk and getting KOd by smaller hungrier fighters
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My only note of optimism is that in twenty years time, we'll be looking back at the Lambert era and asking ourselves what the fuck happened. Of course, we could be in the Blue Square North by then, but hey...
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Bacuna is another overrated waste of space.
I am afraid I must agree with you. He was total garbage tonight.
One free kick against man city apart - he's been absolute gash .
Another one of the football geniuses signings ......
And the other 4 goals he scored.
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Is Joe Cole making an early punt to be the slowest ever Villa player?
He was abject.
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Caught a bit of his post match mumblings on the way back. Apparently we put out a strong side and created enough chances to win two matches (maybe he meant Swan Vestas). I think "we created enough chances to win two matches" is this season's "we go again"
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Seen it all before, too many times. It'll happen again in January. We never learn.
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Is Joe Cole making an early punt to be the slowest ever Villa player?
He was abject.
I can't believe anyone really expected anything out of that signing?
It's early days, but really, he's absolutely past it, and if we rely even slightly on him to create things for us, then we're screwed.
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Be interesting to see how many shots on target then. 4 maybe 5??
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Is Joe Cole making an early punt to be the slowest ever Villa player?
He was abject.
He was terrible. Fat, unfit and out of his depth against third division players. With him and Bent in the team you could say we played most of the game with 9 men.
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Caught a bit of his post match mumblings on the way back. Apparently we put out a strong side and created enough chances to win two matches (maybe he meant Swan Vestas). I think "we created enough chances to win two matches" is this season's "we go again"
He talks utter shite. Two matches of what? Tiddlywinks?
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Just got back
We were poor, never looked like scoring.
Awful (again)
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Is Joe Cole making an early punt to be the slowest ever Villa player?
He was abject.
My west ham ST contacts warned me he can only last about 15 mins . His legs are totally shot.
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Bacuna is another overrated waste of space.
I am afraid I must agree with you. He was total garbage tonight.
One free kick against man city apart - he's been absolute gash .
Another one of the football geniuses signings ......
And the other 4 goals he scored.
Yep - sorry, your right . One of those - against the baggies was a brilliant finish. Silly me .
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Bugger.
My ghast is so flabbered that I can't even bring myself to comment on that.
Kept my run going, in that each time I've sat in The Holte, we lose. Every single time. I thereby take full responsibility.
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Just checked... One shot on target... How do you win two games with one shot on target??
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I'm fitter than Joe Cole. Does he train? He was breathing through his arse after 15 mins and I'm not joking.
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Is Joe Cole making an early punt to be the slowest ever Villa player?
He was abject.
I can't believe anyone really expected anything out of that signing?
It's early days, but really, he's absolutely past it, and if we rely even slightly on him to create things for us, then we're screwed.
I didn't. Of the freebies/bomb squad him and Hutton would have been at the bottom. Glad Hutron has turned it around.
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Two home games into the season, no goals and out the cup to a f'kin League one club!
Pissed off already!!
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Bacuna is another overrated waste of space.
I am afraid I must agree with you. He was total garbage tonight.
One free kick against man city apart - he's been absolute gash .
Another one of the football geniuses signings ......
And the other 4 goals he scored.
Yep - sorry, your right . One of those - against the baggies was a brilliant finish. Silly me .
1,000,001.
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Bacuna is another overrated waste of space.
I am afraid I must agree with you. He was total garbage tonight.
One free kick against man city apart - he's been absolute gash .
Another one of the football geniuses signings ......
And the other 4 goals he scored.
Yep - sorry, your right . One of those - against the baggies was a brilliant finish. Silly me .
Agreed.
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Is Joe Cole making an early punt to be the slowest ever Villa player?
He was abject.
He looked to be blowing out of his arse after about 7 minutes.
Maybe he was desperate for an ciggy ?
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One shot on target, according to the beeb.
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Is Joe Cole making an early punt to be the slowest ever Villa player?
He was abject.
I can't believe anyone really expected anything out of that signing?
It's early days, but really, he's absolutely past it, and if we rely even slightly on him to create things for us, then we're screwed.
If he was a Pirlo type, who could stand in one small area and ping accurate passes wherever he fancied, I could have seen what Lambert was driving at.
But he's Joe Cole, and he's a never-really-was. He has medals, but they're not going to be much help to us.
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Q for trvia bods.
Have we ever been kod of the League Cup in August?
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Q for trvia bods.
Have we ever been kod of the League Cup in August?
Last year.
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It comes to something when Grant Holt wouldn't get into my top 2 of slowest and most unfit players i've seen play for us.
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The worst thing is its not really a shock. The club has such a soft underbelly. The fa cup draw will be depressing as well - prem team and we're out and lower division and we're all waiting for further potential embarrassment
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It comes to something when Grant Holt wouldn't get into my top 2 of slowest and most unfit players i've seen play for us.
Joe Cole / Nigel Callaghan ?
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Bacuna is another overrated waste of space.
Surely to be overrated, you have to be rated in the first place? Who rated him?
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It comes to something when Grant Holt wouldn't get into my top 2 of slowest and most unfit players i've seen play for us.
Joe Cole / Nigel Callaghan ?
Ok he won't even make my top 3. I was thinking of Pires. I walk faster than he could run by the time he was with us.
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I've just got back and I am just as pissed off as everyone else.
I'm gonna mention some sort-of positives though just because someone has to - at least we tried to keep it on the deck and get it wide instead of endless long-balls down the middle like last season, we just weren't that good at it. And we did have enough chances to win the game handily if we'd had a decent striker on the pitch to get on the end of some crosses or if Baker could get free headers on target. Thats about all I've got.
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It comes to something when Grant Holt wouldn't get into my top 2 of slowest and most unfit players i've seen play for us.
Joe Cole / Nigel Callaghan ?
Ok he won't even make my top 3. I was thinking of Pires. I walk faster than he could run by the time he was with us.
Ah yes I'd forgotten about Uncle Bob.
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Under 18k as well. Feckin hell a bleak night
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It comes to something when Grant Holt wouldn't get into my top 2 of slowest and most unfit players i've seen play for us.
Joe Cole / Nigel Callaghan ?
Ok he won't even make my top 3. I was thinking of Pires. I walk faster than he could run by the time he was with us.
Ah yes I'd forgotten about Uncle Bob.
Strangely enough, I had a dream the other night we would win the League Cup, 2-0 against Tottenham. Pires got one of them.
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We've persisted with 4-3-3 at home for 2 seasons, no width & no midfield players breaking into the box. With the players we have it doesn't work & it won't work. Without Benteke we will score nothing.
Bent & Cole are busted flushes, Bacuna is not a Premiership player.
On a positive note - Grealish looks a real talent.
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Q for trvia bods.
Have we ever been kod of the League Cup in August?
Last year.
No. We actually managed to beat Rotherham 3-0 last year
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Q for trvia bods.
Have we ever been kod of the League Cup in August?
Last year.
No. We actually managed to beat Rotherham 3-0 last year
Bollocks, I watched that one too. False alarm, stattoes!
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It's getting such a regular occurrence, that losing abjectly to lower league opposition is no longer a shock. The football is void of attacking flair.
Last season we played fewer matches than anyone with 41. I reckon we can lower that again this season, but somewhere along the line, someone or something will doubtless have been 'excellent'.
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We're not good enough to take the piss against lower league opposition I'm afraid and Mr Lambert doesn't seem to learn that lesson.
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Having just read the AVFC match report it seems as though we should have won about 12 - 1 but for some dashed bad luck. A few moments of sheer class from our lads too apparently. I'm not listening to you lot again.
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Surely there was enough out there to have beaten Orient. So it has to come down to desire, motivation and organisation.
It the majority of those picked wouldn't or couldn't get into the game then they should be let no where near the first team again.
What happened to Jo Cole?
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Just home, having wasted £14 on the ticket, £15 on the diesel, £3 on the crap hot dog, £3.80 on the piss poor beer and 5 hours.
Has Bent ever headed a football? Why does Westwood think that he is useful with a dead ball? Could Baker head a ball into an empty net with no opponents?
Which manager in the history of football goes one down in a cup tie in the 88th minute and, with possession but no penetration, puts on no substitutes?
On the upside, Hutton, Sanchez and Grealish would do well in a good team.
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Bloke next to me said "Hutton's the best player on the pitch" and had to agree with him. He's reinvented himself as a player as far as I can see.
Cole hasn't. Bent was poor. Bacuna too. Can't see that we had any more "class" than Orient, two leagues below us. Lots of huffing and puffing but little or no composure or assurance on the ball. Senderos and Baker solid, Richardson is no full back, Grealish a few promising signs once he'd settled in.
We need to be a lot better on Sunday.
UTV!
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And why did we keep lumping it up to Bent?
Don't think he won a single ball in the air all night - not his fault, just a waste of time (tactics?) and playing into the opposition's hands time and again. Wouldn't let my Under 12s do that, so why does Lambert let it carry on with the team he sends out?
Goodbye horse!
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Bastards! Midweek games are the only ones I can get to and they go and get knocked out the League Cup by fucking Orient.
Thanks Villa. Good job I like Coronation Street.
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Bacuna is another overrated waste of space.
Surely to be overrated, you have to be rated in the first place? Who rated him?
Haha good point.
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Lambert reaction
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rphCEiJ7cuk
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Another spat with fans behind the dugout too... not 100% sure what happened but judging by the reaction of a few fans I think it must have been pretty inflammatory... their anger was well and truly directed at Lambert.
Not good if true. Yes by all means criticize Lambert, but trying to physically attack him (as ive heard) isn't on.
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37 secs of highlights.
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37 secs of highlights.
Far too long. Orient weren't even at full strength apparently.
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He really has no idea.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-created-enough-chances-7681821
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37 secs of highlights.
Far too long. Orient weren't even at full strength apparently.
Neither was I by the fu**in' end!
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The lack of tactical nous shown yet again in very similar circumstances to all the previous too many to mention humiliations has put out the flame that the first two games had given me.The guy yet again was done tactically by the Orient manager who I had never heard of.Is Roy Keane accepting of this? Thing is before the game you knew this result was well possible and walking away from the ground there was an air of grim acceptance of just how shit we have become as a club.
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I remember the feeling of humiliation when Keegan's Fulham did us in the FA Cup. A few years later in was Doncaster. Now it's every bloody season!
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Its become a regular event under Lambert to exit the cups to lower league teams. In my opinion to continually suffer this fate indicates a pretty serious managerial deficiency ( to not learn from previous mistakes).
To put it simply, its unproffesional and unacceptable.
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Frustrating. Will I ever get to see us lift a trophy? :(
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Frustrating. Will I ever get to see us lift a trophy? :(
Unless you're about six months old, probably not, no.
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I can't believe Gabby wasn't brought on. It was crying out for some pace to stretch the game, push their defence back and free up some more space in midfield and he chose to bring on Weimann, the most impotent of our striking options.
Is planless a word? If it's not it should be because that's exactly what we are, constantly.
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Bent / Bacuna & Cole made absolutely no case to be included at the weekend.
Bent used to have that yard of pace to get away from a defender, now he has lost that yard he is shown up for a lack of technical ability.
Bacuna might be good if they introduce 'special teams' to take free kicks, watching a professional player who plays with his head permanently down makes me angrier every time I have to watch him.
Cole was ok for 10-15 mins then disappeared.
When you go 1 nil down with 5/6 minutes to go including injury time why the hell did he not throw Gabby or N'Zogbia or Delph on....strikes me as he was quite happy to lose while appearing to pick a good side.
I'm another who would love to see this 433 (451-tomato tomaytoe) given the heave ho - Heskey would be a huge improvement on Bent or Gabby at the moment because he a) challenges for headers b) can control a ball c) can hold a ball up and d) can pass properly to a team mate - if the useless one insists on a game that is 90% hit a target man he might want to get a target man to tide us over until Benteke / Kozak are fit.
The big positive was Grealish, he started much like his 20 mins v Stoke getting the ball and instantly looking for a team mate, as he grew into the game it was refreshing to watch him actually take players on....by no means the end product but plenty to work with.
Whilst I don't think we were terrible tonight I do think we were complacent
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Frustrating. Will I ever get to see us lift a trophy? :(
Unless you're about six months old, probably not, no.
Ha!
Well, I'm only 20, so I've got quite a few years left hopefully. It can't be like this forever, can it?
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Went to the game earlier, but only just now felt like going over it again. It just felt inevitable that they were going to score at some point and they had great chances before they actually did. They had a clear header inside our box in both halves which should have been goals (Given made a great save off the one in the 2nd half) and had a goal disallowed. I really can't complain about the result as we didn't do enough to win the game.
Paul Lambert has got to hold his hand up and admit he got it tactically wrong against a lower league side yet again. Surely he can see that lower league teams struggle when they are stretched wide and struggle against pace, yet he left arguably our best wide player and our quickest forward on the bench. It was clear it needed changing quite early in the second half, but he seemed reluctant to alter things. The difference Weimann made when he came on was telling as at least he added a bit of energy. We created very few clear chances (Bent was put through at an angle twice and Baker had a headed chance off a set piece) and we produced very little quality in the final third.
As for the players, I thought Hutton did OK, as did Senderos and Richardson. Is it coincidence that the return of Given results in us looking suspect defending set pieces again and the return of Baker results us in looking far less solid at the back? Westwood and Sanchez did OK, but they were pretty much playing the same role throughout and I can only really see one of them playing going forward. Bacuna looked sharp in the first half, but his final ball was poor throughout, and Cole and Bent just looked way off the pace. Bent at least made a few decent runs, but Cole offered very little and looked very slow and ponderous (I accept that he's not had much of a pre season).
That just leaves Grealish, who had a bit of a mixed night, but definitely more good than bad. He had some really nice touches at times and looked far more threatening in a central role than out wide. Cole should have been brought off earlier in the second half, with Grealish moving inside and N'Zogbia or Gabby coming on out wide. I don't see him as a wide player going forward, his natural position is in the "hole" where he can make things happen.
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Is there anybody out there that still doesn't believe Lambert (nice chap that he may be) is tactically inept?
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.strikes me as he was quite happy to lose while appearing to pick a good side.
Just recall his comments re cup games in the week before the Sheffield United game?
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Didn't see the game but Milwall / Shef United /Bradford / Orient ...it's just not acceptable and the lack of funds argument simply doesn't work in these situations.
4 points from the first 2 games had given us something to be positive about given last season's shambles and the club being for sale , that has been swiftly wiped out.We now go into the Hull game and go behind there and the crowd will turn ..and we are only in August FFS.
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Lest we forget, this was against a team that could only manage a 0-0 draw at home to bloody Walsall at the weekend.
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Lambert will not change. He is a son of Hitzfeld, who he played for whist at Dortmund and won the European Cup. Hitzfeld was the Swiss manager in the last world cup.
His style is narrow, defensive football (look at the Swiss ranking) based on full backs providing width. Take for example Lamberts quest to find the perfect full-back. We are on our fourth left back and third right back in as many seasons.
He won the European Cup with Dortmund - it worked why should he change it at Villa?
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Lest we forget, this was against a team that could only manage a 0-0 draw at home to bloody Walsall at the weekend.
To be fair to them, they were a solid, well organised outfit. They didn't really possess any pace up front or out wide, but they defended well and had the better chances on the night.
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Lambert will not change. He is a son of Hitzfeld, who he played for whist at Dortmund and won the European Cup. Hitzfeld was the Swiss manager in the last world cup.
His style is narrow, defensive football (look at the Swiss ranking) based on full backs providing width. Take for example Lamberts quest to find the perfect full-back. We are on our fourth left back and third right back in as many seasons.
He won the European Cup with Dortmund - it worked why should he change it at Villa?
That was nearly 20 years ago!!
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Two years on and we are still absolutely dire at home and unable to take the game to opponents and create/convert chances. It's like a fucking X-File that never gets resolved.
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Lest we forget, this was against a team that could only manage a 0-0 draw at home to bloody Walsall at the weekend.
To be fair to them, they were a solid, well organised outfit. They didn't really possess any pace up front or out wide, but they defended well and had the better chances on the night.
To be fair to us, they shouldn't have been any where near our goal.
Lambert is a clueless twat and giving him more money to spend is pissing in the wind.
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The saddest part is that I'm really not surprised by this result in the slightest.
Its what we do now, our recent records in cups is embarrassing. Nothing will change though and I fully expect we'll be right back here first week of January.
Actually i hope we draw a top side away as at least that won't be the usual embarrassment we've become accustomed to. Thanks Paul.
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We had so much possession and still didn't look like scoring. Disappointed more than annoyed in truth.
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Given never left his line once
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Two years on and we are still absolutely dire at home and unable to take the game to opponents and create/convert chances. It's like a fucking X-File that never gets resolved.
The problem is Paul Lambert, he's shit. Case closed Mulder.
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I can't even be bothered listening to what the man has to say anymore, long ago I realised he is a pure bullshitter and most of what he comes out with bares no relation to what I watched.
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“We performed at a decent level for a League One team.”
There you have it in black and white. Their manager summing up how well you need to play to beat the Villa.
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Just got back. Sadly another typical home performance under this clueless manager .It is not hard to see why we struggle to win,score even with the way he gets us to play. Yet again we concede in the last five minutes and lose the game .They just never learn.
One thing you have to say about Lambert, he is certainly breaking all types of Villa records. Trouble is they are all unwanted records.I read last night that the last time we went out in this round was against Grimsby back in 1992.
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Until Ads and Chris Smith refuse to put up with this shit anymore I think the suffering will continue.
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Two home games this season and just one shot on target, must be another Villa record surely
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We had so much possession and still didn't look like scoring. Disappointed more than annoyed in truth.
we are doing a lot of the right things in two thirds of the pitch and yet come apart at the seams as soon as we enter the final third. The movement is just awful of our forwards that it can't help players behind them even if are trying to be creative. I see players running in lots of straight lines but no angled runs, or overlaps other than the full backs. Look at some of the goals scored by MK Dons last night, and they did a lot of the things we simply don't. We are very one dimensional it's embarrassing.
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Typical...the Leyton Orient got Sheff Utd in the draw at home. We could have got through this and got some revenge in the next round. That or got knocked out again in a cup by Sheff Utd.
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is he still with us? This bloke redefines unsackable. What a farce.
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Roll on September 19th, Lerner has a cunning plan, we all know what a political animal and such an astute business man he is, well he is waiting for Scottish independence, then he can deport Lambert as an illegal and we dont have to pay any compo, brilliant Randy.
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Bent and cole were effectively the front two. I can just picture now ineffective and lacking in penetration that must have been
They must have made the crowd yearn for Weimann and gabby, which is saying something!
The thought that joe cole, playing centrally - where lambert has been clear he sees him - is the answer to our creative woes is laughable
I do think it's time to bin the lambert project. But it's not clear what Randy's thinking is now about selling up.
Would the football actually be worse under pulis? I can't believe I'm saying that!
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The other record he is very close to achieving is final proof that he is a worse manager than Alex McLeish. In his time with us there have been at least five occasions if not ten of meriting a termination of his contract. Any other well run club would have sacked him months ago.
It occurs to me that the first thing Tom Fox has got to do is challenge and end the way the club is being dislocated by ex-cathedra diktats from the owner. The only reason I can see for Lambert still being in place is Randy decreeing "I am not paying any more contract compensation. Do not raise the subject with me again".
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I know we are up for sale but we weren't when these debacles were well underway.
Chelsea away
Wigan home
Bradford
Millwall
Sheffield United
Leyton Orient
Regular trouncings by Spuds.
15-0 in three premier league games.
Lower points total than McLeish
I mean what more does anyone have to do to lose their job.
This. I reckoned we'd get beat in the pre-match predictions, have just got home from a night shift and found the score. Two home games already, no wins and no goals. Its going to be a long 9 months.
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I can't even be bothered listening to what the man has to say anymore, long ago I realised he is a pure bullshitter and most of what he comes out with bares no relation to what I watched.
I find even looking at him irritates me. He comes over as some pissed up old boozer who looks as if he has been dragged through a hedge backwards. And as I've often said, I don't think he's very bright at all
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The worst manager we've had in my time. I have no idea how inept Billy McNeill was but this guy takes the biscuit.
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The worst manager we've had in my time. I have no idea how inept Billy McNeill was but this guy takes the biscuit.
We had to endure McNeill for far less time Deano which was some blessing at least. We seem to have put up with this mumbling idiot no matter what
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The guy is bullet proof it seems but I still think Keane will be boss by Christmas.
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I`m as pissed off as anybody, but lets see what the next few League games bring, then we`ll have a better idea, but if they go tits up, it`s position untenable time.
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I`m as pissed off as anybody, but lets see what the next few League games bring, then we`ll have a better idea, but if they go tits up, it`s position untenable time.
We've been saying stuff like this since he took over but he still continually humliates the club. Sad to say but whatever pain he inflicts on us we're still gonna be stuck with him till Lerner goes.
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So sad that the Lerner/Lambert austerity measures now extend to ensuring at the earliest opportunity that money doesn't need to be spent on silver polish.
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The guy is bullet proof it seems but I still think Keane will be boss by Christmas.
Me too. Next month will be Lambert's last stand.
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I just can't get angry about it any more, it feels like a waste of energy. When their goal went in I just felt like shrugging my shoulders because that's just what happens to Villa these days.
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Watching Besiktas last night and hearing Bilic after the game got me all starry eyed. They played some great stuff with fairly limited footballers. Unfortunately we only have the latter and not the former.
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It's very disappointing and another massive way to shoot yourself in the foot!
You have to at times look at the players too the likes of bent cole wanting to kick on and get into the team had their chance!
What formation did we play?
I think with the money he has had to spend we should be looking at 12th and a good cup run! Were out of one so that just leaves the fa cup!
He will have had three seasons and if we are getting nowhere he has to go!
One goal in three games isn't good enough
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The worst manager we've had in my time. I have no idea how inept Billy McNeill was but this guy takes the biscuit.
We had to endure McNeill for far less time Deano which was some blessing at least. We seem to have put up with this mumbling idiot no matter what
McNeill was worse. I put Lambert on a par with TSM for slightly different reasons.
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Another point why the fuck was Given playing?
He is 8 years past his best whereas Guzan is coming into his prime and much better and doesn't need a rest. He did the same picking Steer in January.
That fuking annoys me.
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Lee Hendrie looks well pissed off.
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The player who scored the winner has got a big, stupid hipster beard as well, just to make matters worse.
I'd rather we were beaten by a bearded man than a stupid clean shaven "man"
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I`m as pissed off as anybody, but lets see what the next few League games bring, then we`ll have a better idea, but if they go tits up, it`s position untenable time.
Surely it was position untenable time in his first season, when we went through christmas losing 3 games a combined 15-0? Surely it was position untenable time when we couldn't keep a clean sheet in 27 games. Surely it was position untenable time after only winning 5 home games in a season?
Lambert could walk into Lerners house, piss on all the furniture, do his wife up the arse in front of him and force his kids to call him daddy. He still wouldn't get the sack.
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Two home games and exactly the same failings of the last two years. What's that saying about the definition of a fool being someone doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome. Passing the ball in front of opponents and no penetration whatsover. Different players but nothings changed
There is a deeply ingrained depression hanging over Villa Park which is draining the life out of the fans. The club needs some kind of lift to shake the torpor - be it a change of manager or more hopefully a key signing or two, otherwise I can only see more of the same.
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Judging by the attendances for the first two games people are beginning to vote with their feet. I can see it being sub-30,000 on Sunday.
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Judging by the attendances for the first two games people are beginning to vote with their feet. I can see it being sub-30,000 on Sunday.
I'm amazed anyone goes given the shit that is served up and I take my hat off to every one of them. They are 'better men' than me because I wouldn't go anywhere near the place at the moment
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Well we have had our two moments of elation. The Sanchez signing and the arrival of Tom Fox. Now its back to normal. Dreadful result down to a truly dreadful, verbally incomprehensable and untalented manager.
One goal this season and most goalkeepers would have saved that!
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So, given that tactically Lambert is totally and completely inept (this surely can no longer be in any doubt), and that he's had to recruit Keane to help him, what exactly is he bringing to the table himself?
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As has been said on here, what really worries me is how so many aren’t at all surprised by the result. We are now so immune to the annual cup humiliation that we now collectively shrug our shoulders to it. I take my hat off in all sincerity to those that went last night and to those that continue to travel to every game, because I know that were I still in the UK, I am not sure I could cope much more without some sign of a silver cloud on the horizon.
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Bearded magnificence.
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His CV now shows cup defeats by Bradford (over 2 legs), Millwall, Sheff Utd and now Leyton Orient - all within 20 months from Jan 2013 to Aug 2014.
Only a shambles of a club would let this happen/ continue.
Disgrace - and yes , far, far worse than anything TSM served up.
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His CV now shows cup defeats by Bradford (over 2 legs), Millwall, Sheff Utd and now Leyton Orient - all within 20 months from Jan 2013 to Aug 2014.
Only a shambles of a club would let this happen/ continue.
Disgrace - and yes , far, far worse than anything TSM served up.
Not forgetting the worst home record in our entire history. How can he possibly still be here?
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and he can't get his glasses right. They look totally wrong!
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Sadly I only think things will change when the fans turn on Lambert. We almost need such a bad home match that people have no choice but to start showing their anger.
But even then, would Randy pay any attention. I's just so depressing.
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I'd personally rather we had a great home match.
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numb, our team last night was pretty much what we would put out in the prem, yes lambert is to blame, yes lerner is to blame, but the players if they had any pride would not have let that happen, we had enough of the ball (what a ridiculous thing to say we were playing div 1 opposition)
we need atleast a striker, handy andi can go and take gabby with him.
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If this Tom Fox is as good as people say, he'll quickly realise the dwindling attendances are down to lambert and he will demand change.
Let's see. If not he's just another lapdog for Randy.
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Sadly I only think things will change when the fans turn on Lambert. We almost need such a bad home match that people have no choice but to start showing their anger.
But even then, would Randy pay any attention. I's just so depressing.
No. Not this time.
It was different with McDoom. Randy was in attendence and the whole crowd who were left turned on McLeish with a lot of (justified) vitriol. And '000s were not going to renew their season tickets at the time.
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Most people in the pre match thread had a similar team to the one fielded. On paper it looked pretty strong and I'm sure most fans and PL assumed it would be good enough. Unfortunately some of the players were poor. Not entirely the manager's fault that Bacuna failed to deliver or Bent missed chances he normally thrives on.
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I don't really want to see the whole stadium turn on lambert. It shouldn't have to be that way.
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I don't really want to see the whole stadium turn on lambert. It shouldn't have to be that way.
I agree. I don't want to subject anyone to a stream of vitriol. No-one is doing a rubbish job on purpose. I just want this seemingly never-ending tide of mediocrity to end.
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Most people in the pre match thread had a similar team to the one fielded. On paper it looked pretty strong and I'm sure most fans and PL assumed it would be good enough. Unfortunately some of the players were poor. Not entirely the manager's fault that Bacuna failed to deliver or Bent missed chances he normally thrives on.
There have been far too many examples of this so yes it is the managers fault not being able to see it at HT or half way through second half and make changes in tactics and personnel to see off a third tier team.
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The culture of apathy, malaise, stagnation and disregard is down to one man. Randy Lerner.
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we had plenty of the ball, didn't create that many chances but did create enough to have won the game. Not Lamberts fault that Senderos, Baker, Bent, Bacuna, Cole and Grealish all missed chances that they should probably have scored.
Some of you need counselling for your mood swings. 2 weeks ago after the Stoke game, you were high as a kite, now you are in a deep dark place.
make your minds up!!!
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As has been said on here, what really worries me is how so many aren’t at all surprised by the result. We are now so immune to the annual cup humiliation that we now collectively shrug our shoulders to it. I take my hat off in all sincerity to those that went last night and to those that continue to travel to every game, because I know that were I still in the UK, I am not sure I could cope much more without some sign of a silver cloud on the horizon.
The whole club is one giant collective shrug to defeat, we are so used to it it has no effect anymore. Players, the Manager, the Chairman, the Fans.
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I think Lambert is right when he says "No one has a divine right to beat anybody else". However, I would expect a team two tiers above it's opposition to manage more than a single shot on target in 90 minutes. We are seeing too much of that season after season. The worry is that he doesn't appear to be capable of sorting it out.
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I`m as pissed off as anybody, but lets see what the next few League games bring, then we`ll have a better idea, but if they go tits up, it`s position untenable time.
NO. Sorry but this has happenend too often now to wait. Once, twice three times may be but this sequence has been repeated too often to give Lambert more chances.
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In the past when we have been bad, and we have had long periods of being as bad or worse than we were last night, the big difference was that we won some games at home. From personal memory this occasional joy was due to us having a player who could forge a goal with individual effort, character or skill. A Frankie Broome a Trevor Ford a John Gidman, a Sammy Morgan, a Harry Burrows, a Peter McParland, a Mark Walters, a Brian Little.
Along comes Bosman and our best players get sold and not replaced with equal quality. So we are left watching our team stuffed with millionaires and knowing that there is not a goal in the lot if them.
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I don't know whether to laugh or cry, or whether I'm depressed or not.
It's the first time the O's have beaten a team from the Premier league and I am happy for them, but I'm so pissed off it was against Villa (sorry it's just the O's were my local team when I was a nipper).
Oh well, after two games back to the normal disappointment of the last three years. Will we ever score again this season? It wouldn't surprise me if we didn't, we are so inept.
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Yes! We're three matches into the new season, two league games and the transfer window hasn't shut. The two league games showed some signs of promise too.
I agree that we should've done better last night, but it happens. (A lot in our case) sacking the manager isn't always the answer.
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Sorry wrong Morgan.
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I didn't realise, til i got home and heard it on the radio, that Orient made 6 changes to their usual first choice line up.
And Darren Bent wouldn't look dangerous if you gave him a flick knife.
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i was very worried last season that if we went down we would struggle, in the championship, and our performances against these lower league clubs is barring this point out, our big empty ground is a great place for lesser clubs to just "go for it". Randy please be warned.
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Randys been warned many times, nothing changes.
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Sorry wrong Morgan.
Haha.. I was surprised a little when I read Sammy! Nevertheless I liked Sammy
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Most people in the pre match thread had a similar team to the one fielded. On paper it looked pretty strong and I'm sure most fans and PL assumed it would be good enough. Unfortunately some of the players were poor. Not entirely the manager's fault that Bacuna failed to deliver or Bent missed chances he normally thrives on.
There have been far too many examples of this so yes it is the managers fault not being able to see it at HT or half way through second half and make changes in tactics and personnel to see off a third tier team.
As people pointed out - Joe Cole looked like he was going to have his heart pumped after 15 mins. Why did he show for the 2nd half. Is Lambert that fucking stupid?
And he still picks the walking calamity that is Baker.
I think Lambert plays Championship Manager as much as Villa Kicks
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Getting Willie and Sammy Morgan mixed up took me back to that epic 3 3 at home in the cup to Yanited. Villa Park was rocking that night. Only relevant to this thread because we were very much the underdog no hopers.
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Lest we forget, this was against a team that could only manage a 0-0 draw at home to bloody Walsall at the weekend.
To be fair to them, they were a solid, well organised outfit. They didn't really possess any pace up front or out wide, but they defended well and had the better chances on the night.
To be fair to us, they shouldn't have been any where near our goal.
Lambert is a clueless twat and giving him more money to spend is pissing in the wind.
The only times they did were off a couple of good crosses and some set pieces.
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I think we can now definitely rule out Joe Cole as being any use to us at all . We need a decent creative midfielder bought in before Monday and a winger.
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Roll on September 19th, Lerner has a cunning plan, we all know what a political animal and such an astute business man he is, well he is waiting for Scottish independence, then he can deport Lambert as an illegal and we dont have to pay any compo, brilliant Randy.
It's me birthday, what a present a new owner/manager would be
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Surely Keane will have kicked their collective arses after that performance, absoulutely abysmal.
Isn't that what we hoped part of his role was, to inject some fire into the players that Lambert seems incapable of.
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I was fed up until I read this thread and now I'm suicidal, my take on it was we had lots of tippy tappy possession and did fuck all with it, highlight was young Jack, I'll be interested to see what happens on Sunday. Going out at home to lower league opposition isn't just a Lambert problem, it happened under Mcshit, O'Neill and also Ron Atkinson
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17,000 Last night with reduced prices. I wonder how many Os fans there were?
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Joe Cole ....why?
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Their section was packed full.
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If the club are so disinterested in the League Cup, why do we bother to enter it? Likewise the FA Cup? All they are doing is misleading the fans and giving them even more false hope. For the life of me I don't understand the attitude off so many Premier League Clubs who belittle the cups. For most it is the only real chance of winning anything and back in the good old days, a League Cup triumph was often a springboard to even greater success. Villa being a prime example of this. In those days there were 42 league games to play as well in much more energy sapping conditions with far smaller squads. Nobody seemed that bothered about saving themselves for League survival. Actually, silly me, of course it's all about money ..... stuff the fans.
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in our case, after this length of time, and with the humiliations that we have endured, sacking the manager is the only answer
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No Clark or Lowton in the squad again I see. Injured or out of favour?
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19,000 Last night with reduced prices. I wonder how many Os fans there were?
1200 or so would be my guess. Decent enough showing but they didn't seem to make much noise.
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19,000 Last night with reduced prices. I wonder how many Os fans there were?
I think 2000
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The attendence wasn't too bad considering that no-one really goes to the early rounds
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The attendence wasn't too bad considering that no-one really goes to the early rounds
Optimism that there would be a rare home win.
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I hoped that Lambert would have taken stock of the last 2 years and realised the way we set up at home is deeply flawed and needed to change.
The first two home games could have happened any time in that period. He has learnt nothing - desperately poor manager.
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I thought we looked ok and completely controlled the game. But it was as if the final third was mined and there was some sort of miasma seeping around and infected the players' minds.
Bacuna's final ball was diabolical. Richardson, midfielder though he is, cannot put in the same kind of whipped ball that Aly can, Bent was pedestrian and missed two good chances and actually proved that yes, there is somebody worse than Gabby up front.
We're clearly missing Benteke and Kozak, but when a young lad like Grealish is looking head and shoulders above everybody else, then you have to wonder. I hope he starts on Sunday, as he has got something. He glides past players and is intelligent enough to draw free kicks. I really like him and think he is wasted out wide. Get him central and get him on the ball as much as possible, as he makes the game look effortless at times.
Without Delph, the midfield was devoid of any impetus centrally and had no pace. Even without Gabby, there was nobody capable of stretching the Defence.
We likely won't dominate sides as comfortably possession wise as we did like last night in the premier league, but the problems will remain the same at home no matter who we play. Unless the opposition think they're capable of winning the game and come onto us, we cannot break a side down. We need attacking players desperately.
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I hoped that Lambert would have taken stock of the last 2 years and realised the way we set up at home is deeply flawed and needed to change.
The first two home games could have happened any time in that period. He has learnt nothing - desperately poor manager.
Yes it does appear that way.
We can't win every game. We can't play well every game.
What we can do is attempt to play some decent / attractive stuff at home in every game.
We don't do anything of the sort.
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The guy is bullet proof it seems but I still think Keane will be boss by Christmas.
Me too. Next month will be Lambert's last stand.
I doubt it. He knows he's got Randy by the nuts. His contract is up at the end of the season and he'll rinse every penny from it and walk away then.
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It's always a shitter when your team is beaten by a lower league side. But when your team appears incapable of beating a lower league side then it goes up another level of shitness.
Oh yeah, and WTF is up with Okore?
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Okore is out injured. Again.
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Okore is out injured. Again.
Hmmm. Whats wrong with him now?
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It's not a repeat of the old injury, other knee / leg this time.
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He picked up a knock to his knee before Stoke.
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He picked up a knock to his knee before Stoke.
Thanks
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Okore - I hate to write him off already, but when do we accept we've bought a 'crock'?
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Maybe we should get him some of that skateboard kit.
Bless him.
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No Clark or Lowton in the squad again I see. Injured or out of favour?
Clark was on the bench last night
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Roll on September 19th, Lerner has a cunning plan, we all know what a political animal and such an astute business man he is, well he is waiting for Scottish independence, then he can deport Lambert as an illegal and we dont have to pay any compo, brilliant Randy.
It's me birthday, what a present a new owner/manager would be
Mine too. Happy birthday to us!
EDIT: sorry, thought you meant today, didn't read the post you quoted.
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Well happy birthday anyway, Percy. You can always count on Weller to cheer you up more than Villa....right?
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The guy is bullet proof it seems but I still think Keane will be boss by Christmas.
Me too. Next month will be Lambert's last stand.
I doubt it. He knows he's got Randy by the nuts. His contract is up at the end of the season and he'll rinse every penny from it and walk away then.
Precisely. Why would he stay - terrible owner, sub standard funding, majority want him out regardless - his last stand won't be next month, it'll be end of the season when he rids his hands of this mess. All very sad
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He picked up a knock to his knee before Stoke.
Stone?
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The only thought that went through my head as Orient scored was "thank God there won't be extra time so i have to watch any more" - I'm sure I wasn't the only one.
I didn't get a ST as this is the type of performance I feared would be the norm but I have foolishly booked tickets for the first half-dozen matches - my heart sinks having to go on Sunday. It's just boring.
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The really sad thing is I think it's going to take about 5 years to even recover from the mess we are in , that's from a point all yen building blocks are in place which could take years in itself. What a shambles.
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I will take boring over "sweet holy Christ, we can't even defend".
Its not very pretty at the moment though in that final third. We're functional, upto a point and I will give us leeway until our best strikers are back. Benteke would have bagged a brace last night.
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Roll on September 19th, Lerner has a cunning plan, we all know what a political animal and such an astute business man he is, well he is waiting for Scottish independence, then he can deport Lambert as an illegal and we dont have to pay any compo, brilliant Randy.
It's me birthday, what a present a new owner/manager would be
Mine too. Happy birthday to us!
EDIT: sorry, thought you meant today, didn't read the post you quoted.
Happy Birthday Percy, Don't forget mine will ya?
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I thought we looked ok and completely controlled the game. But it was as if the final third was mined and there was some sort of miasma seeping around and infected the players' minds.
Bacuna's final ball was diabolical. Richardson, midfielder though he is, cannot put in the same kind of whipped ball that Aly can, Bent was pedestrian and missed two good chances and actually proved that yes, there is somebody worse than Gabby up front.
We're clearly missing Benteke and Kozak, but when a young lad like Grealish is looking head and shoulders above everybody else, then you have to wonder. I hope he starts on Sunday, as he has got something. He glides past players and is intelligent enough to draw free kicks. I really like him and think he is wasted out wide. Get him central and get him on the ball as much as possible, as he makes the game look effortless at times.
Without Delph, the midfield was devoid of any impetus centrally and had no pace. Even without Gabby, there was nobody capable of stretching the Defence.
We likely won't dominate sides as comfortably possession wise as we did like last night in the premier league, but the problems will remain the same at home no matter who we play. Unless the opposition think they're capable of winning the game and come onto us, we cannot break a side down. We need attacking players desperately.
Good assessment that Ads and I agree with every word. I'm still staggered Lambert waited so long to change things in the second half especially as it looked likely that Orient would get one at some point. Taking Cole and Bent off, moving Grealish into a more central position and bringing on N'Zogbia and Gabby would have changed the game.
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Our attacking is so pedestrian though. Little movement or clever running off players, very rarely overlapping runs let alone incisive passing..,
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If the club are so disinterested in the League Cup, why do we bother to enter it? Likewise the FA Cup? All they are doing is misleading the fans and giving them even more false hope. For the life of me I don't understand the attitude off so many Premier League Clubs who belittle the cups. For most it is the only real chance of winning anything and back in the good old days, a League Cup triumph was often a springboard to even greater success. Villa being a prime example of this. In those days there were 42 league games to play as well in much more energy sapping conditions with far smaller squads. Nobody seemed that bothered about saving themselves for League survival. Actually, silly me, of course it's all about money ..... stuff the fans.
why do you say we were disinterested?
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It's not a repeat of the old injury, other knee / leg this time.
How long is he likely to be out? Fed up of seeing Mr "50p head" Baker in the squad - would rather see Clark start in front of him!
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We likely won't dominate sides as comfortably possession wise as we did like last night in the premier league,
53% possession. I know we've been starved of the ball in recent years, but against a league 1 side that is hardly dominant
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Hackney is a difficult place to go for a quiet pint normally. Love the O's supporters club bar but resisted going last night.
http://www.hackneygazette.co.uk/football/orient/vincelot_heads_home_late_winner_as_leyton_orient_cause_league_cup_upset_at_aston_villa_1_3747291
How did Dean Cox do? he is my favourite O's player. Pritchard ex-Spurs is good as well but subject to injury. Kevin Nugent, coach, is a gentleman; drinks in my local. I had an intimation I'd be having one of those conversations with Kev, although Wm Hill was the main beneficiary with my donation!
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Disappointed we didn't win the game would have liked a cup run.
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Most people in the pre match thread had a similar team to the one fielded. On paper it looked pretty strong and I'm sure most fans and PL assumed it would be good enough. Unfortunately some of the players were poor. Not entirely the manager's fault that Bacuna failed to deliver or Bent missed chances he normally thrives on.
There have been far too many examples of this so yes it is the managers fault not being able to see it at HT or half way through second half and make changes in tactics and personnel to see off a third tier team.
As people pointed out - Joe Cole looked like he was going to have his heart pumped after 15 mins. Why did he show for the 2nd half. Is Lambert that fucking stupid?
And he still picks the walking calamity that is Baker.
I think Lambert plays Championship Manager as much as Villa Kicks
In your world, who would've partnered Senderos in defence?
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Hackney is a difficult place to go for a quiet pint normally. Love the O's supporters club bar but resisted going last night.
http://www.hackneygazette.co.uk/football/orient/vincelot_heads_home_late_winner_as_leyton_orient_cause_league_cup_upset_at_aston_villa_1_3747291
How did Dean Cox do? he is my favourite O's player. Pritchard ex-Spurs is good as well but subject to injury. Kevin Nugent, coach, is a gentleman; drinks in my local. I had an intimation I'd be having one of those conversations with Kev, although Wm Hill was the main beneficiary with my donation!
the ship, hidden away infront of the town hall off mare st was always the hackney council workers' boozer of choice when I worked there.
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My thoughts on last night/last season/last few years
We are a strange outfit, individually we seem to have players who have tidy respectable enough games, (Westwood, Sanchez, Senderos, Baker, Grealish, last night) but collectively we fail to create anything, regardless of the opposition.
I don't understand it, and I can't really imagine that 3 European Cup Winners are giving the team these instructions, but it's like a culture among the players/coaching staff/managers that is somehow broken. The number of times yesterday that we took the least threatening option was frightening.
A few other thoughts, ...
maybe if Grealish wore some shin pads he wouldn't have to shit out of every tackle? Generally I thought he was pretty good and don't want to pick on the kid but these were the two things that bugged me about his performance and maybe they're not unconnected.
If the finances in the Premier League move so far away from the rest of the football pyramid, how does the gap in quality appear to be closing?
(An older Orient fan me and my dad were talking to on the train, wasn't even that excited about beating us, he was saying it was a close game between two weakened sides..I honestly think they might have been more weakened than we were)
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My thoughts on last night/last season/last few years
We are a strange outfit, individually we seem to have players who have tidy respectable enough games, (Westwood, Sanchez, Senderos, Baker, Grealish, last night) but collectively we fail to create anything, regardless of the opposition.
I don't understand it, and I can't really imagine that 3 European Cup Winners are giving the team these instructions, but it's like a culture among the players/coaching staff/managers that is somehow broken. The number of times yesterday that we took the least threatening option was frightening.
A few other thoughts, ...
maybe if Grealish wore some shin pads he wouldn't have to shit out of every tackle? Generally I thought he was pretty good and don't want to pick on the kid but these were the two things that bugged me about his performance and maybe they're not unconnected.
If the finances in the Premier League move so far away from the rest of the football pyramid, how does the gap in quality appear to be closing?
(An older Orient fan me and my dad were talking to on the train, wasn't even that excited about beating us, he was saying it was a close game between two weakened sides..I honestly think they might have been more weakened than we were)
This is a major issue with the team and has been for some time now.
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The same criticism used to be chucked at Downing and Young. It's the bizarre English mentality and obsession with pace and brawn over technique and ability.
I don't want the 8 stone ringing wet, floppy haired, Jack grealish flying into any tackles, shin pads or not, as he's a wisp of bloke. I want him beating players for fun and looking dangerous, which he does. He needs to understand that he has an obligation to track and mark when required, on the wing at least, but he can avoid getting clobbered as much as he likes.
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The number of times yesterday that we took the least threatening option was frightening.
This is a major issue with the team and has been for some time now.
Too right.
The failing as I see it with our squad is not their lack of pace, or positioning, or technical attributes. Its simply they all go hiding. They all play within their comfort zone. There's not one who is prepared to show, to stand out, to take a risk.
Its a mentality thing as opposed to a technical ability thing. You can't coach it. You have it or you don't. You can carry a few in the squad who don't have it, if you have a few who have an abundance of it. But unfortunately, its completely lacking at VP.
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Hackney is a difficult place to go for a quiet pint normally. Love the O's supporters club bar but resisted going last night.
http://www.hackneygazette.co.uk/football/orient/vincelot_heads_home_late_winner_as_leyton_orient_cause_league_cup_upset_at_aston_villa_1_3747291
How did Dean Cox do? he is my favourite O's player. Pritchard ex-Spurs is good as well but subject to injury. Kevin Nugent, coach, is a gentleman; drinks in my local. I had an intimation I'd be having one of those conversations with Kev, although Wm Hill was the main beneficiary with my donation!
the ship, hidden away infront of the town hall off mare st was always the hackney council workers' boozer of choice when I worked there.
Kevin uses The Charles Lamb in Islington. A very good pub..and The Cambridge round the corner when on the P.. Lots of good places in Hackney now. Howl at the Moon f'instance
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Most people in the pre match thread had a similar team to the one fielded. On paper it looked pretty strong and I'm sure most fans and PL assumed it would be good enough. Unfortunately some of the players were poor. Not entirely the manager's fault that Bacuna failed to deliver or Bent missed chances he normally thrives on.
There have been far too many examples of this so yes it is the managers fault not being able to see it at HT or half way through second half and make changes in tactics and personnel to see off a third tier team.
As people pointed out - Joe Cole looked like he was going to have his heart pumped after 15 mins. Why did he show for the 2nd half. Is Lambert that fucking stupid?
And he still picks the walking calamity that is Baker.
I think Lambert plays Championship Manager as much as Villa Kicks
In your world, who would've partnered Senderos in defence?
I'd have picked the slightly better Clark (assuming Vlaar was rested due to his World Cup exploits and injury record).
Still don't understand why Guzan was rested.
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The number of times yesterday that we took the least threatening option was frightening.
This is a major issue with the team and has been for some time now.
Too right.
The failing as I see it with our squad is not their lack of pace, or positioning, or technical attributes. Its simply they all go hiding. They all play within their comfort zone. There's not one who is prepared to show, to stand out, to take a risk.
Its a mentality thing as opposed to a technical ability thing. You can't coach it. You have it or you don't. You can carry a few in the squad who don't have it, if you have a few who have an abundance of it. But unfortunately, its completely lacking at VP.
I mentioned something similar last night.
It's almost as if, individually, the players are more concerned with their own game (probably not to fuck up) than to play as a team and a cohesive unit.
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My thoughts on last night/last season/last few years
We are a strange outfit, individually we seem to have players who have tidy respectable enough games, (Westwood, Sanchez, Senderos, Baker, Grealish, last night) but collectively we fail to create anything, regardless of the opposition.
I don't understand it, and I can't really imagine that 3 European Cup Winners are giving the team these instructions, but it's like a culture among the players/coaching staff/managers that is somehow broken. The number of times yesterday that we took the least threatening option was frightening.
A few other thoughts, ...
maybe if Grealish wore some shin pads he wouldn't have to shit out of every tackle? Generally I thought he was pretty good and don't want to pick on the kid but these were the two things that bugged me about his performance and maybe they're not unconnected.
If the finances in the Premier League move so far away from the rest of the football pyramid, how does the gap in quality appear to be closing?
(An older Orient fan me and my dad were talking to on the train, wasn't even that excited about beating us, he was saying it was a close game between two weakened sides..I honestly think they might have been more weakened than we were)
Good post
I couldnt understand how we passed the ball sideways (reminded me of Dennis Mortimer in his latter days) and backwards so much.
is the premier league having a laugh ????
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The same criticism used to be chucked at Downing and Young. It's the bizarre English mentality and obsession with pace and brawn over technique and ability.
I don't want the 8 stone ringing wet, floppy haired, Jack grealish flying into any tackles, shin pads or not, as he's a wisp of bloke. I want him beating players for fun and looking dangerous, which he does. He needs to understand that he has an obligation to track and mark when required, on the wing at least, but he can avoid getting clobbered as much as he likes.
It's not that I think he needs to go clattering into tackles, but if you don't challenge for 50:50 balls they turn into 0% balls.
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'Goin back' as supporters of my vintage are apt to say,practically all clubs put out their first team in the cups.
With so much depending on staying in the Premier League each season nobody does it.
Because essentially,these days, the cups don't matter a jot.
Not even the FA Cup!
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Poor stuff really, need a win at the weekend now.
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I have to admit that Lambert is consistent, yet again outwitted by a lower league side. A disgrace we still can't break a side down and can only play on the counter. As many of said we as usual take it as a given and there is no anger anymore, a sad state of affairs. Lambert is merely a symptom, until Lerner goes nothing will change.
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It wasn't much different to our 1st team though so I'm not sure that explains it. The only real differences were bringing in Cole and Bent for Weimann and Agbonlahor. On last nights evidence they're both past it, but two former England internationals should have been good enough to stand in against third tier opposition.
(In response to Ron Manager)
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The lack of mobility from Bent and Cole really hampered us, even with some awful service from Bacuna.
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'Goin back' as supporters of my vintage are apt to say,practically all clubs put out their first team in the cups.
With so much depending on staying in the Premier League each season nobody does it.
Because essentially,these days, the cups don't matter a jot.
Not even the FA Cup!
I'll be in retirement before I see another! Come on da villa..Time waits for no man but another season now at very least. Maybe before the bloke in the cloak comes calling?
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I know we are up for sale but we weren't when these debacles were well underway.
Chelsea away
Wigan home
Bradford
Millwall
Sheffield United
Leyton Orient
Regular trouncings by Spuds.
15-0 in three premier league games.
Lower points total than McLeish
I mean what more does anyone have to do to lose their job.
I'm no Lambert fan but he has equalled McLeish not lower
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The lack of mobility from Bent and Cole really hampered us, even with some awful service from Bacuna.
Certainly did. I was impressed with the passing through the side, out of the back and into midfield, all quick, crisp and accurate, with Sanchez as the pivot. Always makes himself available, and Westwood looked all the better for it, gets him 15 yards further up the pitch. But time and time again, the lack of a pass further forward offered by two vastly experienced players brought progress to a standstill, allowing Orient to regroup in front of us. Fucking MOOOOOOVE.
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Bent is yesterday's striker. He hasn't got it anymore sadly. Unfortunately whilst Benteke and possibly Kozak are out the other options aren't much better.
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The spine of the team last night - Given - Senderos - Cole -Bent.
Is it really a surprise with these dinosaurs plodding around. Joke.
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The same criticism used to be chucked at Downing and Young. It's the bizarre English mentality and obsession with pace and brawn over technique and ability.
I don't want the 8 stone ringing wet, floppy haired, Jack grealish flying into any tackles, shin pads or not, as he's a wisp of bloke. I want him beating players for fun and looking dangerous, which he does. He needs to understand that he has an obligation to track and mark when required, on the wing at least, but he can avoid getting clobbered as much as he likes.
It's not that I think he needs to go clattering into tackles, but if you don't challenge for 50:50 balls they turn into 0% balls.
if he continues to play without shin pads, someone will teach him a painful lesson before too long
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if he continues to play without shin pads, someone will teach him a painful lesson before too long
I thought it was mandatory these days to play with them? When did that change?
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if he continues to play without shin pads, someone will teach him a painful lesson before too long
I thought it was mandatory these days to play with them? When did that change?
It is mandatory, he probably had the Perspex see through version on.
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Grealish does wear shin-pads. He has to.
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It wasn't much different to our 1st team though so I'm not sure that explains it. The only real differences were bringing in Cole and Bent for Weimann and Agbonlahor. On last nights evidence they're both past it, but two former England internationals should have been good enough to stand in against third tier opposition.
(In response to Ron Manager)
There were changes in goal, defence, midfield and up front. It was a good way off our first team.
I expected a disjointed performance, you always get that when you change a team around, so that was no surprise. Even so, we should be beating teams from League 1 however to do that you need to score goals and that is beyond us at present.
Of the players who came in, none really did themselves any favours with Bent being the worst of the bunch.
Edit: Forgot to mention Grealish, the bright spark on a dull night.
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Thing is Vlaar and Cissokho were injured so only the 3 unenforced changes, one of whom was our keeper so shouldn't have changed the way we attacked too much.
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Most people in the pre match thread had a similar team to the one fielded. On paper it looked pretty strong and I'm sure most fans and PL assumed it would be good enough. Unfortunately some of the players were poor. Not entirely the manager's fault that Bacuna failed to deliver or Bent missed chances he normally thrives on.
There have been far too many examples of this so yes it is the managers fault not being able to see it at HT or half way through second half and make changes in tactics and personnel to see off a third tier team.
As people pointed out - Joe Cole looked like he was going to have his heart pumped after 15 mins. Why did he show for the 2nd half. Is Lambert that fucking stupid?
And he still picks the walking calamity that is Baker.
I think Lambert plays Championship Manager as much as Villa Kicks
In your world, who would've partnered Senderos in defence?
I'd have picked the slightly better Clark (assuming Vlaar was rested due to his World Cup exploits and injury record).
Still don't understand why Guzan was rested.
Okore and Vlaar were injured and I don't have any confidence that Clark would have done anything to change the way the game ended. As for Guzan, can't say I saw Given do much wrong. The problem was yesterday's midfield were all happy to play deep and make no effort to join the isolated Bent. The amount of times we got in reasonable positions and were looking to hit a pin point cross to one player in the box was ridiculous.
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Shin pads these days are pathetically small.
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Most people in the pre match thread had a similar team to the one fielded. On paper it looked pretty strong and I'm sure most fans and PL assumed it would be good enough. Unfortunately some of the players were poor. Not entirely the manager's fault that Bacuna failed to deliver or Bent missed chances he normally thrives on.
There have been far too many examples of this so yes it is the managers fault not being able to see it at HT or half way through second half and make changes in tactics and personnel to see off a third tier team.
As people pointed out - Joe Cole looked like he was going to have his heart pumped after 15 mins. Why did he show for the 2nd half. Is Lambert that fucking stupid?
And he still picks the walking calamity that is Baker.
I think Lambert plays Championship Manager as much as Villa Kicks
In your world, who would've partnered Senderos in defence?
I'd have picked the slightly better Clark (assuming Vlaar was rested due to his World Cup exploits and injury record).
Still don't understand why Guzan was rested.
Okore and Vlaar were injured and I don't have any confidence that Clark would have done anything to change the way the game ended. As for Guzan, can't say I saw Given do much wrong. The problem was yesterday's midfield were all happy to play deep and make no effort to join the isolated Bent. The amount of times we got in reasonable positions and were looking to hit a pin point cross to one player in the box was ridiculous.
I don't know - Clark and Baker are both very limited defenders. I'd say Clark is slightly better with the ball at his feet (i.e. passing) which may have helped last night.
Given (and I was always a fan when he was with The Toon) does not command his area or marshall his defence much anymore.
I prefer Guzan - I think he is a much better keeper.
Cole should have been taken off at half time. He is clearly not fit.
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Most people in the pre match thread had a similar team to the one fielded. On paper it looked pretty strong and I'm sure most fans and PL assumed it would be good enough. Unfortunately some of the players were poor. Not entirely the manager's fault that Bacuna failed to deliver or Bent missed chances he normally thrives on.
There have been far too many examples of this so yes it is the managers fault not being able to see it at HT or half way through second half and make changes in tactics and personnel to see off a third tier team.
As people pointed out - Joe Cole looked like he was going to have his heart pumped after 15 mins. Why did he show for the 2nd half. Is Lambert that fucking stupid?
And he still picks the walking calamity that is Baker.
I think Lambert plays Championship Manager as much as Villa Kicks
In your world, who would've partnered Senderos in defence?
I'd have picked the slightly better Clark (assuming Vlaar was rested due to his World Cup exploits and injury record).
Still don't understand why Guzan was rested.
Okore and Vlaar were injured and I don't have any confidence that Clark would have done anything to change the way the game ended. As for Guzan, can't say I saw Given do much wrong. The problem was yesterday's midfield were all happy to play deep and make no effort to join the isolated Bent. The amount of times we got in reasonable positions and were looking to hit a pin point cross to one player in the box was ridiculous.
I don't know - Clark and Baker are both very limited defenders. I'd say Clark is slightly better with the ball at his feet (i.e. passing) which may have helped last night.
Given (and I was always a fan when he was with The Toon) does not command his area or marshall his defence much anymore.
I prefer Guzan - I think he is a much better keeper.
Cole should have been taken off at half time. He is clearly not fit.
Shay Given never did command his area, in the same way as Budgie didn't. Given is very good at reaction saves. However as time passes his
ability to move quickly is diminishing fast.
If Cole is not fit ,and you would think he would be, he should not have started.
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Cole should have been taken off at half time. He is clearly not fit.
I agree, the problem is he needs to play games to get fit.
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but not for us
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but not for us
Why not?
He played some good through balls and looked useful, but as Chris has pointed out, he was nowhere near fit. With somebody a lot more mobile than Bent up top, better things may have happened.
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Sadly I think we have to resign ourselves to the fact that Lambert will never approach these games in the right way. Whether he takes opposition lightly, or just genuinely sees the cups as a needless distraction, or both, we seem to be getting into a poor habit under him of going out with a wimper to lower league opposition.
I'd honestly have fancied our chances more against Chelsea or Man City in the cup over whoevers at the arse end of League Two.
Pathetic, uninspiring, but completely unsurprising. Upon checking the score I more or less just groaned and shrugged. I'd expect the same in the FA Cup.
The main thing for me though is Lambert keeps us up, then parts ways so we can hopefully move onward, and perhaps, if we're lucky, under new ownership. Then we can put a whole sorry 4 years behind us.
It'd be nice to send our side out all guns blazing genuinely intent on progressing and potentially winning a cup and ensure we're well versed on whatever opposition we're up against.
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but not for us
Why not?
He played some good through balls and looked useful, but as Chris has pointed out, he was nowhere near fit. With somebody a lot more mobile than Bent up top, better things may have happened.
Again, it might be down to lack of fitness, but he just looked so slow last night. He just didn't seem to have the pace to get past players and the difference between him and Grealish when the latter appeared in central areas was stark.
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Cole looked looked like his legs have gone and generally past it on last nights evidence, doesn't mean he is. It could just be down to fitness, after all he was gasping for breath after about 5 minutes.
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Cole looked looked like his legs have gone and generally past it on last nights evidence, doesn't mean he is. It could just be down to fitness, after all he was gasping for breath after about 5 minutes.
He should try those vapour e lights instead of Benson and hedges