Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: SW9-VILLA on April 14, 2014, 03:28:09 PM
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http://www.croydonadvertiser.co.uk/Crystal-Palace-fans-hit-Aston-Villa-supporters/story-20953116-detail/story.html
Anyone there on Saturday know what happened?
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Already been covered in post match thread!
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Fair enough. Mods delete if so.
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To save me swimming through all the Lambert out posts in there to find it, were some of our fans a little disrespectful?
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Can someone link up where it starts in the post match thread?
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There was some chanting/singing at the start of the minutes silence - not sure if from the stand itself or from the latecomers getting to the stand.
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People still on the concourse/coming into the ground were still singing.
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From what I've heard, Palace fans were not exactly saintly like, during the match
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The above post (Ads) says it all; I don't believe anyone actually in the seating area was disrespectful. I acknowledge, however, that as at all away games where we have a high allocation of tickets there were a fair number of idiots there on Saturday.
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It happens during most silence. A few late people, usually getting told to shut up by others. Then the opposition fans blow it out of all proportion. It was a disgrace though as they should have shut up when it became obvious they were letting the side down.
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From what I've heard, Palace fans were not exactly saintly like, during the match
The ones around us spent most of the game gesticulating at our away support, and considering it was a family stand the language was pretty grim too.
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I wasn't at this game but I can remember at least 3 times where I have been singing in the concourse only to step on the terrace to be told to shut up as there is a minutes silence going on. I am pretty sure that our fans would not disrespect a minutes silence, especially one for Hillsborough, but when you have been drinking and are getting carried away with the atmosphere you just can't help it.
In fact at Liverpool away a few years ago I was talking as I was walking on the concourse only to be told to shut up which I did, it happens and its mostly unintentional.
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It happened earlier this season at WHU after which we were similarly criticised for not observing Armistice Day.
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My Palace supporting friend was sitting next to our fans and looking directly at us. He says that no way was it late comers and was disgraceful. Cameron Jerome even tweeted about it afterwards. I had a bit of an argument with my mate but he swears blind it wasn't guys on the concourse etc.
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I was watching Soccer Saturday on, erm, Saturday and they showed the silence at all the grounds. At all of them, there sounded like there was some chanting. And I expect in most cases, it was due to fans coming up late.
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It's a football match, fans are full of tension and adrenaline. They're just asking for trouble calling for minute silences. I'm getting sick of them.
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It's a football match, fans are full of tension and adrenaline. They're just asking for trouble calling for minute silences. I'm getting sick of them.
Yes, it is a bit much expecting fans to be quiet as a sign of respect for 1 minute. After all, they've only got another 1,439 minutes in the day in which to make a noise.
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I am with you SH. Minute's silences have become completely devalued.
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It's a football match, fans are full of tension and adrenaline. They're just asking for trouble calling for minute silences. I'm getting sick of them.
Yes, it is a bit much expecting fans to be quiet as a sign of respect for 1 minute. After all, they've only got another 1,439 minutes in the day in which to make a noise.
They're going to a football match not a mass.
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It's a football match, fans are full of tension and adrenaline. They're just asking for trouble calling for minute silences. I'm getting sick of them.
This was one of the ones I was ok with, especially as it could have been any team losing almost 100 fans at the time. The ones I hate are the ones forced on all teams when the person has nothing to do with other teams. (Like what will happen when Whisky face dies.)
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It's a football match, fans are full of tension and adrenaline. They're just asking for trouble calling for minute silences. I'm getting sick of them.
This was one of the ones I was ok with, especially as it could have been any team losing almost 100 fans at the time. The ones I hate are the ones forced on all teams when the person has nothing to do with other teams. (Like what will happen when Whisky face dies.)
I don't like them, never have done never will do. There's always gonna be a few fans who make a bit of noise then the shit hits the fan and the whole fan base gets slaughtered for it.
We should just call it a day and stop minute silences for good.
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It's a football match, fans are full of tension and adrenaline. They're just asking for trouble calling for minute silences. I'm getting sick of them.
This was one of the ones I was ok with, especially as it could have been any team losing almost 100 fans at the time. The ones I hate are the ones forced on all teams when the person has nothing to do with other teams. (Like what will happen when Whisky face dies.)
I don't like them, never have done never will do. There's always gonna be a few fans who make a bit of noise then the shit hits the fan and the whole fan base gets slaughtered for it.
We should just call it a day and stop minute silences for good.
You must be fun to be around at funerals then.
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It's a football match, fans are full of tension and adrenaline. They're just asking for trouble calling for minute silences. I'm getting sick of them.
This was one of the ones I was ok with, especially as it could have been any team losing almost 100 fans at the time. The ones I hate are the ones forced on all teams when the person has nothing to do with other teams. (Like what will happen when Whisky face dies.)
I don't like them, never have done never will do. There's always gonna be a few fans who make a bit of noise then the shit hits the fan and the whole fan base gets slaughtered for it.
We should just call it a day and stop minute silences for good.
You must be fun to be around at funerals then.
Much as Villa games feel like funerals these days I can assure you they're not. Go and pay your respects at church, memorial services or whatever you like, but for goodness sake leave football matches alone.
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If you thousands of people managing to keep quiet for one minute I think it makes the whole thing pretty moving.
It is a shame that there were a few that were unable to keep it zipped for 60 seconds.
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It's a football match, fans are full of tension and adrenaline. They're just asking for trouble calling for minute silences. I'm getting sick of them.
This was one of the ones I was ok with, especially as it could have been any team losing almost 100 fans at the time. The ones I hate are the ones forced on all teams when the person has nothing to do with other teams. (Like what will happen when Whisky face dies.)
I don't like them, never have done never will do. There's always gonna be a few fans who make a bit of noise then the shit hits the fan and the whole fan base gets slaughtered for it.
We should just call it a day and stop minute silences for good.
You must be fun to be around at funerals then.
Much as Villa games feel like funerals these days I can assure you they're not. Go and pay your respects at church, memorial services or whatever you like, but for goodness sake leave football matches alone.
On this occasion it was about a tragedy at a football match that could have involved any of us.
I think it was quite appropriate and so, it seems, did most football fans throughout the country.
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I am sure the 96 who lost their lives at Hillsborough would not want their fellow fans to be po faced and miseryarsed.
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My Palace supporting friend was sitting next to our fans and looking directly at us. He says that no way was it late comers and was disgraceful. Cameron Jerome even tweeted about it afterwards. I had a bit of an argument with my mate but he swears blind it wasn't guys on the concourse etc.
Well your mate is wrong and, anyway, what was he doing 'looking directly at us' shouldn't he have been facing the pitch?
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My Palace supporting friend was sitting next to our fans and looking directly at us. He says that no way was it late comers and was disgraceful. Cameron Jerome even tweeted about it afterwards. I had a bit of an argument with my mate but he swears blind it wasn't guys on the concourse etc.
Well your mate is wrong and, anyway, what was he doing 'looking directly at us' shouldn't he have been facing the pitch?
It was during the minutes silence and he was looking at the Villa fans as he reckons that there was a lot of singing and shouting ruining the silence
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No there wasn't - as I've said earlier on this thread, and also on the post match thread on Saturday, the noise came from Villa fans who had not yet entered the seating area, and were therefore unaware that the minutes silence had started. The Villa fans got similar - undeserved - stick at West Ham on 2nd November. I'm more than happy for fellow fans to be lambasted if they deserve it but in these two cases they don't.
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I was in row 7 and it was well behind me. I think he is stirring things up.
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Isn't this why they invented the minute's applause? It seems a much better option at a rowdy event like a football match, so that when we have the minute's applause for the anniversary of the Bradford City fire, the Bolton tragedy, the Ibrox disaster, the Heysel disaster and indeed the Hillsborough disaster, we can all show our respect by making a racket, like football fans are supposed to?
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I was in row 9 and came up from the concourse during the minutes silence after queuing for the loo for an age. Whilst I was quiet, I was also completely unaware that the minute's silence had begun. You couldn't tell from the concourse area as the PA system is inaudible and I'm sure that 99% of those making noise were in the same boat. Like all clubs we have our share of idiots (and they were out in force on Saturday) but at least from my vantagepoint I didn't see anyone being intentionally disrespectful. It was an unfortunate set of circumstances. On a separate note, my Palace supporting mate was quite near us and said some girl in their section got hit by a bottle during the match, there seemed to be a bit of aggro but I couldn't see what was going on.
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It's a football match, fans are full of tension and adrenaline. They're just asking for trouble calling for minute silences. I'm getting sick of them.
Yes, it is a bit much expecting fans to be quiet as a sign of respect for 1 minute. After all, they've only got another 1,439 minutes in the day in which to make a noise.
They're going to a football match not a mass.
I tend to agree that there are generally too many which of course has the effect of devaluing the significance, but my point is that if there is a call for a 1 minute silence, it should not be beyond the capabilities of anyone to observe it.
I've never been to a mass, and suspect I never will, but I'm pretty sure they last longer than 1 minute.
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Precisely Jimbo. Who decided that the only form of respect for the dead is silence? Last year my brother died. He was a Villa fan from before WW2. The club sent a wreath to his funeral, a letter of condolence to his widow and a very moving card signed by the players. After his funeral we all went to Timperley Cricket Club. It was a noisy, raucous, beery family gathering filled with laughter and Villa story telling. My brother would have hated silence and tears and unhappiness. It was the way he would have wanted it. Let us remember the victims of Hillsborough as full of life and love of the beautiful game not as some sort of behavioural science test.
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I am sure the 96 who lost their lives at Hillsborough would not want their fellow fans to be po faced and miseryarsed.
Being quiet for a minute doesn't have to equate to being po faced and miseryarsed.
I was sat in the Palace bit and it was clear that there was some chanting or singing coming from the Villa bit, though it was muffled and could quite easily have come from the concourse.
In an ideal world I personally think a minutes silence is a moving tribute, but as we have seen as supporters twice this season, perhaps it is unworkable.
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But surely you were silent/ respectful in the church / wherever the service was. Then afterwards the noise was made. Well isn't that the same as Saturday? Minutes silence and then the cheering after.
When a player dies, I prefer a minutes applause for his accomplishments in life, however applauding for a minute because fans of other teams lost their lives just does not sit right, especially as it could have been our fans ( or others in the 80's).
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I was listening to the commentary of the Arsenal game and the minute's silence eased into a minute's applause because of chanting. People in the concourse there as well I should imagine.
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I was at the game, and as it is often is it was people who were singing on the concourses, continuing to sing as they entered the ground, then getting told to 'shut up', which obviously creates more noise.
So, technically the Palace fan is right as he will have heard singing from the stand, albeit very briefly. Like I say it was as people entered from the concourses, they'd stop once they were told. Unfortunately, there was then the next rowdy group coming in who hadn't cottoned on to the minute's silence either.
It's not great coverage but it happens when people go on boozy away days, I'd had a fair few drinks myself, but was well aware of the minute's silence and was in the ground from around 3pm. Guess it's easy to forget about a silence when you've sunk a few and are at a football match when everyone's singing and shouting for hours before the game.
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No there wasn't - as I've said earlier on this thread, and also on the post match thread on Saturday, the noise came from Villa fans who had not yet entered the seating area, and were therefore unaware that the minutes silence had started. The Villa fans got similar - undeserved - stick at West Ham on 2nd November. I'm more than happy for fellow fans to be lambasted if they deserve it but in these two cases they don't.
Agreed. Exactly how I saw, and heard, it.
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I find the self righteous indignation of Crystal Palace fans far more nauseating than a few pissed up morons, momentarily forgetting themselves. Especially as it's now widely known, that these 'salts of the earth' had plenty of knuckle scrapers of their own.
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No there wasn't - as I've said earlier on this thread, and also on the post match thread on Saturday, the noise came from Villa fans who had not yet entered the seating area, and were therefore unaware that the minutes silence had started. The Villa fans got similar - undeserved - stick at West Ham on 2nd November. I'm more than happy for fellow fans to be lambasted if they deserve it but in these two cases they don't.
That doesn't wash with me Saturday was highly advertised about the minute silence, the game kicked off 7 minutes late as advertised, the not knowing about it is a shit excuse. Fair enough for most other minutes silence but not one that was as high profile as Saturdays one it was embarrassing
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I was listening to the commentary of the Arsenal game and the minute's silence eased into a minute's applause because of chanting. People in the concourse there as well I should imagine.
It was very odd seeing the TV coverage. People stood in silence, head bowed, not 30 cm from someone doing the applause.
The Wigan coaching staff didn't know which way to turn and ended up sort of clapping with bowed heads.
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I find the self righteous indignation of Crystal Palace fans far more nauseating than a few pissed up morons, momentarily forgetting themselves. Especially as it's now widely known, that these 'salts of the earth' had plenty of knuckle scrapers of their own.
The point is, that for two London clubs we are insensitive and disrespectful louts because - in their experience this season - we dissed two occasions that other clubs 'apparently' did not.
What actually happened and the mitigating circumstances are, in their eyes, irrelevant.
I suggest we all get over it.
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There is stuff in the 'Lost football grounds' group on Facebook today about Chelsea & Middlesboro fans failing to respect the silence. So it wasn't just us.
I think away fans possibly struggle more than home fans due to being more likely to be rushing in late, often having had more to drink. Home fans have a routine where any change to it is more easily recognisable.
I think there is a role for turnstile staff & stewards here to remind people as they enter the ground that there is about to be a minutes silence or that there is one in progress.
At the Petrov charity game at Boldmere a few weeks ago there was a minutes silence for the bloke who was due to ref the game but had died. I became aware if it as I was walking up because there had been noise & it had gone quiet. However coming through the turnstiles, it was apparent the the turnstile operators were unaware & were chattering to people on the way in. Someone from inside walked over to tell them & they stopped letting people through but carried on chatting! One of them said brightly 'I didn't even know there was a minutes silence! To which I responded pretty sharply 'Well you do now!'
That made me think that if the groundstaff aren't properly briefed, then what chance does everyone else have?
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I was in Row 25 and the little bit of noise came from the concourse, it was made louder by everyone else sshhhing to try and get them quiet. Overall I thought our away support at Palace was tremendous, we were vocal and stayed with the team, despite the shit we were watching.
I forgot what a shithole the Palace ground was though no better than a Division 1 stadium, I spoke with a steward at half time who did say that we were the worst behaved fans for abuse, alcohol and general shit they had welcomed to the ground all season .
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I find the self righteous indignation of Crystal Palace fans far more nauseating than a few pissed up morons, momentarily forgetting themselves. Especially as it's now widely known, that these 'salts of the earth' had plenty of knuckle scrapers of their own.
Agreed.
The idiot who squealed shut up from across the other side of the pitch was more embarrassing than anything else. It was coming from the concourse, which is half open air and so easily sounds into the stand.
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I spoke with a steward at half time who did say that we were the worst behaved fans for abuse, alcohol and general shit they had welcomed to the ground all season .
We do have a segment of support (as every club probably has) who are more interested in drinking and/or hurling abuse at the opposition supporters than in watching the game. There were plenty of these around on Saturday.
I've said before that, as a latecomer to football, I really don't understand the way that some people behave at games.
As for the "silence", from where I was stood I was aware of one person who was chanting as he entered the seating area. He stopped as soon as he realised what was happening.
The only other noise was from people in, was passed for, the concourse/food area.
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The point about my brother's funeral being quiet was more or less true. My bro had no truck with religion and it was a humanist ceremony with plenty of humour and Villa jokes. Last week was not the funeral of the 96 it was a mass gathering at a sporting event and people are people, some good some bad and some in-between. What really bothers me about this incident is the media stirring anti football fan hysteria just like they did in the immediate aftermath of Hillsborough. The Croydon Advertiser is plugging into the largely home counties stereotypical prejudice that football fans are scum. In these pages you have no better eye witness than Ads who is clearly an intelligent and truthful man. If he says the noise came from the concourse that is good enough for me.
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Well like many things in society the minority get the attantion that the majority really deserve.
There was a story I read about some Liverpool fans lobbing bricks through a Man City supporters coach on the way to the ground on Sunday.
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I've heard from a few people that our away support was a strange one on Saturday.
As for the Citeh coach at Klanfield, while not condoning it in any way or saying it was the case in this instance, selling on Witton Lane most games I see the away fan coaches arrive. The goading some of them do to home fans, it doesn't surprise me that they they will do it to the wrong group and something like that happens. I'm actually surprised it doesn't happen more often.
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I've heard from a few people that our away support was a strange one on Saturday.
As for the Citeh coach at Klanfield, while not condoning it in any way or saying it was the case in this instance, selling on Witton Lane most games I see the away fan coaches arrive. The goading some of them do to home fans, it doesn't surprise me that they they will do it to the wrong group and something like that happens. I'm actually surprised it doesn't happen more often.
I just find it pretty sad that on a highly emotional day for Liverpool some of their fans would chuck bricks at a coach.
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I've heard from a few people that our away support was a strange one on Saturday.
As for the Citeh coach at Klanfield, while not condoning it in any way or saying it was the case in this instance, selling on Witton Lane most games I see the away fan coaches arrive. The goading some of them do to home fans, it doesn't surprise me that they they will do it to the wrong group and something like that happens. I'm actually surprised it doesn't happen more often.
I just find it pretty sad that on a highly emotional day for Liverpool some of their fans would chuck bricks at a coach. Some people just can't help themselves.
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I've heard from a few people that our away support was a strange one on Saturday.
As for the Citeh coach at Klanfield, while not condoning it in any way or saying it was the case in this instance, selling on Witton Lane most games I see the away fan coaches arrive. The goading some of them do to home fans, it doesn't surprise me that they they will do it to the wrong group and something like that happens. I'm actually surprised it doesn't happen more often.
I just find it pretty sad that on a highly emotional day for Liverpool some of their fans would chuck bricks at a coach.
Pure conjecture, but maybe because it was an emotional day they reacted to being goaded in a way they wouldn't normally.
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Maybe - it wouldn't justify the action though.
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I am not a fan of one minute silences, and thought that the league wide silence was over the top.
For a game involving LFC, fair enough, but not beyond.
Some bereaved also would rather now forget.
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Why dont we have a minutes silence for all Minutes' silences ?
If people want to remember those who have passed for whatever reason it should be voluntary and private. If you want to go to a memorial service you can choose to do so.
The whole thing has become a charade for the sanctimonious and holier than thou brigade to score points.
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Minute's silence for anything other Rememberance Sunday are a nonsense IMO.
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Some 'Yippee Eye Yay, Yippee Eye Yo' chanting that sounded like it was coming from the back of the stand (by late arriving Villa fans I assumed).
I did think that upon being told to shit up by other Villa fans some were deliberately shouting "OI" and such like, just to be funny (unbelievably stupid twats in other words).
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I've never been told to shit up, minute silence or not.
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I've never been told to shit up, minute silence or not.
I thought you could only do that under gravity free atmospheric conditions.
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I've never been told to shit up, minute silence or not.
I thought you could only do that under gravity free atmospheric conditions.
Croydon?
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I've never been told to shit up, minute silence or not.
I thought you could only do that under gravity free atmospheric conditions.
Croydon?
Or St Andrews.
Which coincidentally is another place where you will get a guaranteed minutes silence*.
* Just pick any one from 90.