Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on February 01, 2014, 11:43:55 AM
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Saturday 1.2.14 @4.50pm
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We were really really shit. Playing like this is always going to result in us losing games.
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Clueless management I'm afraid.
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I'll say it again. Spot on first half, absolute wank in the second. Disappointing.
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Rubbish today. Totally rubbish.
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Just utterly heart breakingly shit!
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I just don't get the mindset of these players. Common sense tells you keep it and move...
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Shite!
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I bloody hate losing to better teams than us.
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Clueless management I'm afraid.
Bollocks. We flooded them first half and were on top. If Vlaar stays fit we take a point, they just looked shattered to me.
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Why not set the team out to play like we did against Liverpool?
Clueless, classless, tedious shit from Lambert. He was frightened to even try to win.
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Deserved nothing, got nothing. Anything else would have been grossly unfair.
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You can't rely on the belief that we will be able to soak up pressure against good sides for 90 minutes. We have no plan besides the initial strategy and that has cost us today. Lambert has to figure this out because he is showing little or no flexibility in his tactics. It's very poor.
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Not watched, but not going have a pop too much after coming through the game in midweek which will have taken a lot from them, to then keep up the way we were set up not having the ball for 90 minutes was going to be bloody difficult. Poor management, and poor weekend other results wise.
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Depressed. Weds was great but should have fooled no one. Depressed.
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TSM-type set up to try not to lose. Hardly strung 3 passes together all game. Constantly just hoof from the back inviting more pressure on. Got what we deserved
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I don't have a problem with playing deep and being direct on the break, when it suits. I do have a problem when we just don't play at all, as we did for forty minutes of the second half.
The goals were well deserved and somewhat inevitable for Everton
It's hard to do player ratings because for much of the game our players were just filling in positions.
Terrible second half performance
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An embarrassment of the highest order.
That is anti football
Get that f in scottish tw@t out of my club
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Please explain why Vlaar was taken off in that scenario. I did not see that his leg had fallen off and that is about the only reason I would accept. Stupid.
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Owner not good enough.
Manager not up to the job of managing a championship squad into the top half of the premiership.
Players not good enough.
]
Shit shit shit.
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Why did Vlaar go off?
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Lambert is completely responsible for that result. I don't understand why people can't see through him
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This was very very disappointing, we were always gonna concede at some stage and when they got the 2nd our mindset was too negative and we
couldn't change it.
Was Vlaar injured - he walked off OK didn't he....if not should have kept him on the park.
Some strange decisions by the manager.
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It was very much a Mcleish style performance that
To be fair we did play like that a fair bit under O'Neill. We were just better at it and more dangerous on the break
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An embarrassment of the highest order.
That is anti football
Get that f in scottish tw@t out of my club
Were you saying that on Wednesday evening?
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We got what we'd deserved that simple. I have two issues with that display and they're related. Firstly I've been banging on about this for ages if you have possession stats of 40% or less on a regular basis you will lose more than you win, and considering we have less than 35% possession quite regularly that balance will be even more skewed. Lambert really doesn't get it.
Secondly I find it embarrassing that Villa as a club have become so small time. It's one thing for a team who get promoted to regularly play with their backs to the wall, but it's frankly embarrassing that we go to clubs and desperately try and cling on and offer nothing. That coupled with our transfer strategy is just not good enough. Aston Villa are a much bigger football than we look and play like at the moment.
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I wish Poyet was our manager. Lambert just doesn't learn.
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Utter horse shit.
Negative nonsense I thought we'd left behind with McLeish.
Week after week 30% possession, it is just awful to watch. Embarrassing in fact.
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Clueless management I'm afraid.
Bollocks. We flooded them first half and were on top. If Vlaar stays fit we take a point, they just looked shattered to me.
We flooded them first half?
No we didnt.
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No attacking intent (or ability) at all in the second half. We frustrated them first half but playing as we were, it was just a matter of time.
Quite why we have to play the most godforesaken football in the history the game, I don't know. Woefully unskilled and unsightly at times. Travel back a million years and you'd see cave men kicking rocks with more skill than some of our players at times this season.
Next 3 games are key. Get Gabby back, be adventurous and beat the teams we should be beating.
Today we just have to write it off as playing a side which is far, far better than us. We made them work hard for it, but absolutely no complaints about the result. Everton deserved it. We're a country mile away from their level right now.
Bacuna and Bertrand played well. Delph did pretty well. Our front men couldn't get a sniff.
KEA and Westwood remain woefully inadequate at this level.
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Owner not good enough.
Manager not up to the job of managing a championship squad into the top half of the premiership.
Players not good enough.
]
Shit shit shit.
Erm...
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I'm not really annoyed, which is annoying. The inevitability of losing after the equaliser makes me very frustrated.
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Why did Vlaar go off?
It can only be because he is carrying an injury
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We got what we'd deserved that simple. I have two issues with that display and they're related. Firstly I've been banging on about this for ages if you have possession stats of 40% or less on a regular basis you will lose more than you win, and considering we have less than 35% possession quite regularly that balance will be even more skewed. Lambert really doesn't get it.
Secondly I find it embarrassing that Villa as a club have become so small time. It's one thing for a team who get promoted to regularly play with their backs to the wall, but it's frankly embarrassing that we go to clubs and desperately try and cling on and offer nothing. That coupled with our transfer strategy is just not good enough. Aston Villa are a much bigger football than we look and play like at the moment.
Hear hear.
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29% of the ball. A very common stat. Outplayed. Weak-minded.
We look capable of conceding more than 2 goals in every game.
I really hope Randy is looking to sell.
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No Match of the Day tonight for me then.
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Disappointing result and performance from what I've heard, looks like we're back in the relegation fight
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I have no issue losing games. It happens to every team. It's the manner of the defeat that always bothers me. If someone had told me that we'd lost 2-1 to Everton but gave it everything, despite being disappointed I'd have accepted it. Today was, aside from a brief happy moment exactly what we did not need after the high of Wednesday.
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Is Vlaar injured again?
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Lambert's makes Mcleish look like a tactical genius.
Absolutely awful manager. How does he think having 29% possession will win you games?
He is so clueness and the sooner he is out this club the better
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Same shit
-Stupid free kicks -check
- No ball rentention - check
-Long balls to Benteke - check
Liverpool and WBA were positive performances this was back to the clueless shite we have served up time and time again this season.
Vlaar going off if he is inured again we are back in shit street no question about it
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I wish Poyet was our manager. Lambert just doesn't learn.
Poyet is looking a good manager in the making.
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5 points off the drop zone. i was looking forward to mid table mediocrity. wont it be typical if vlaar is now out injured and the windows closed
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Slight over reaction today I think....yea we were poor but take away the Liverpool game and Wednesdays and we have played like this most of the season. No real surprises today for me, Everton are a good side.
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Lambert is completely responsible for that result. I don't understand why people can't see through him
Totally agree.
Has he not seen and leant that we a era better team when we try and play football.
This approach of defending, defending, defending and then hoofing the ball back to the opposition is utter,utter madness.
I just think the job is too big for him, he has a small club mentality and approach to the game.
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The vlaar sub must have been injury related. There's no way he'd have taken him off and left baker on if it wasn't.
Need a win v west ham now or I'll feel nervous we're being sucked back into it
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(https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/s403x403/1601202_791195037574723_680115482_n.jpg)
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An embarrassment of the highest order.
That is anti football
Get that f in scottish tw@t out of my club
Were you saying that on Wednesday evening?
Leeg, do you think he is good enough to be our manager? He fucks it up EVERY time we make any type of progress
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Unlucky Villa, but we always compete every game, by hook or by crook.
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Utter horse shit.
Negative nonsense I thought we'd left behind with McLeish.
Week after week 30% possession, it is just awful to watch. Embarrassing in fact.
It's a shame after doing well against West Brom and Liverpool that we had to regress to this bollocks. I would rather we'd have been a bit gung ho and tried attacking, even if it meant losing 4-3 instead of 2-1.
We've got to move on from this piss poor anti-football.
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Utter horse shit.
Negative nonsense I thought we'd left behind with McLeish.
Week after week 30% possession, it is just awful to watch. Embarrassing in fact.
Yep the whole approach of the club is embarrassing at the moment.
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We got what we'd deserved that simple. I have two issues with that display and they're related. Firstly I've been banging on about this for ages if you have possession stats of 40% or less on a regular basis you will lose more than you win, and considering we have less than 35% possession quite regularly that balance will be even more skewed. Lambert really doesn't get it.
Secondly I find it embarrassing that Villa as a club have become so small time. It's one thing for a team who get promoted to regularly play with their backs to the wall, but it's frankly embarrassing that we go to clubs and desperately try and cling on and offer nothing. That coupled with our transfer strategy is just not good enough. Aston Villa are a much bigger football than we look and play like at the moment.
Hear hear.
Agree with this
Im too busy swearing to make such a top post
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very very poor and very disappointing!.
I had already written this one off, but looking at the early part of the game we could have had a go and done better. Everton were there for the taking today and we didn't capitalise on it. Instead we played a strange defensive game.
We go again ! Tonights excuse will be interesting from Lambert!
Lack of flair and talent at the back, there is always mistakes in them and when you give silly free kicks away expect to be punished!
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I have no issue losing games. It happens to every team. It's the manner of the defeat that always bothers me. If someone had told me that we'd lost 2-1 to Everton but gave it everything, despite being disappointed I'd have accepted it. Today was, aside from a brief happy moment exactly what we did not need after the high of Wednesday.
Makes West Ham at VP next week into a 6 pointer too. Win it, looking up again, lose we are in trouble. Vlaar going off is a big hit.
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Sick. Of. Watching. This. Shit.
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Slight over reaction today I think....yea we were poor but take away the Liverpool game and Wednesdays and we have played like this most of the season. No real surprises today for me, Everton are a good side.
Agreed. This talk of depression about the game and Lambert fuck off and aren't we clueless and isn't it a shame we have no heart and no guts and blah blah blah. I'm disappointed we lost too, but we've got four points from three games where most people thought we would get three. Fine margins, but we're not going down. The thing about having a young squad is they will be inconsistent. Today we weren't good. The last two games were good. It happens.
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(https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/s403x403/1601202_791195037574723_680115482_n.jpg)
Today we defended quite well and lost.
Previous two games we defended pretty poorly and picked up 4 points.
Building from our defence will get us nowhere, we need to attack teams.
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Dissapointing. However Everton were only likely to score a second from a free kick and this they did!
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An embarrassment of the highest order.
That is anti football
Get that f in scottish tw@t out of my club
Were you saying that on Wednesday evening?
Leeg, do you think he is good enough to be our manager? He fucks it up EVERY time we make any type of progress
Good question. I think he has the potential to be, but inconsistency is his downfall. I doubt if he will be replaced in the near future anyway.
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Everton were favourites to win but Lambert bottled it today. He looked at the stats and came for a draw.
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Here's an idea, let's score a goal and then spend the entire game giving Everton the ball back.
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We got what we'd deserved that simple. I have two issues with that display and they're related. Firstly I've been banging on about this for ages if you have possession stats of 40% or less on a regular basis you will lose more than you win, and considering we have less than 35% possession quite regularly that balance will be even more skewed. Lambert really doesn't get it.
Secondly I find it embarrassing that Villa as a club have become so small time. It's one thing for a team who get promoted to regularly play with their backs to the wall, but it's frankly embarrassing that we go to clubs and desperately try and cling on and offer nothing. That coupled with our transfer strategy is just not good enough. Aston Villa are a much bigger football than we look and play like at the moment.
Agreed.
I don't think Lambert is the right man. He gets away with it sometimes but I just can't see a bright future (completely unintentional) for us with him here.
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Dissapointing. However Everton were only likely to score a second from a free kick and this they did!
If you have 29% possession and give away 18 free kicks then you are giving them as a good a chance as possible to do so.
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Very worrying if Vlaar is injured.
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Beaten by a better team, better footballing team, we know that, we need better midfield players, we know that, decided to save our purchases till the summer, i can cope with that.As supertom said, apart from Delph, the midfield is poor, we can't do nothing now, we have to wait until summer, 4 more wins and we will be safe.If we don't win next weekend, then we could be in trouble, but as it is what i expected today.
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As i said in the match thread, only one side played football today and it wasn't us.
The way Lambert had us set up was practically 10 men behind the ball, we played very deep and compact, and this initially made it difficult for Everton to get through us, but it was very 'anti-football'. We had no out ball though and by the end we weren't even hoofing it in Benteke's general direction, we were just hoofing it. You can't 'play' like that for 90 minutes, all of our defending and closing down takes it's toll towards the end of games and players begin to tire, and their players then begin to find the space and make opportunities.
I'd have been happy if we'd of sneaked a win or draw, but FFS can we please try and play some football. We've played some good stuff against better teams than Everton so there really is no excuse for that kind of performance.
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Owner not good enough.
Manager not up to the job of managing a championship squad into the top half of the premiership.
Players not good enough.
]
Shit shit shit.
Erm...
It is a squad that would struggle in the championship and we expect Lambert to get it into the top half of the premiership.
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Beaten by a better team, better footballing team, we know that, we need better midfield players, we know that, decided to save our purchases till the summer, i can cope with that.As supertom said, apart from Delph, the midfield is poor, we can't do nothing now, we have to wait until summer, 4 more wins and we will be safe.If we don't win next weekend, then we could be in trouble, but as it is what i expected today.
If it was just poor players it wouldn't bother me as much. It's the fact we set up so negatively and we know that we won't buy good players.
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An embarrassment of the highest order.
That is anti football
Get that f in scottish tw@t out of my club
Were you saying that on Wednesday evening?
One swallow doesnt make a summer and all that
This level of incompetence has been going for 18 months save as about 10 games
PL is clueless
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Good first half.
Ran out of energy in the second and never retained the ball once. Gambled that Everton wouldn't break us down, they did we lost.
We look like we have more than enough to retain our premier league status. But not enough to finish top half. It's where we are right now.
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We got what we'd deserved that simple. I have two issues with that display and they're related. Firstly I've been banging on about this for ages if you have possession stats of 40% or less on a regular basis you will lose more than you win, and considering we have less than 35% possession quite regularly that balance will be even more skewed. Lambert really doesn't get it.
Secondly I find it embarrassing that Villa as a club have become so small time. It's one thing for a team who get promoted to regularly play with their backs to the wall, but it's frankly embarrassing that we go to clubs and desperately try and cling on and offer nothing. That coupled with our transfer strategy is just not good enough. Aston Villa are a much bigger football than we look and play like at the moment.
Very well put across.
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Paul Lambert got it wrong today. When you set up with 5 at the back against a team without a recognized centre forward, a team that loves to throw it's fullbacks forward, a team that lacks pace through the middle of its team you will lose. Too much time, too much respect and too much space was given to Everton.
Everton have been great at home this season but this was probably the weakest starting 11 they have had at home, they got thumped in their last game and their defence was torn to shreds by pace and clever running, both things we are good at. We should have wide men pinning the fullbacks in their half, our fullbacks should have pushed higher up the pitch and the midfield should have pressed higher up the field.
Clark showed amazing naivety to give a way a needless freekick in the middle of pitch 25 yards out against a team with numerous good freekick takers. Surely it was discussed before the game.
Really disappointed that we didn't go out to get three points and the mentality of defending a point from the kick off makes my blood boil.
- And to really piss me off the Frogs score a try after 30 seconds.
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Very worrying if Vlaar is injured.
Probably more so if he isn't as it means the manager is a fucking fruitcake...
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Over reaction. We were superb at the back for 60 mins. They'd had one shot on target and playing 3-5-2 had stopped them from being able to pass through us. Vlaar gets injured, can't turn for the first and goes off and we look shoddy at the back. If Vlaar stays fit we take 3 points and people talk about how resilient we are this season and how we are only 7 points behind the toon. Yes I would like us to play more expansive but we weren't poor today. The game plan almost worked a treat.
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apart from Delph, the midfield is poor
Everyone was saying Bacuna was having a good game at half time?
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Defence battled well and in the end the pressure told - can't complain about the result as everton deserved the win but we gave them a hard game - hope Vlaar isn't injured , he didn't seem to be limping when he went off but we look dodgy without him at the heart of things .
Tenth place but still only 5 points above the relegation zone - 3 huge games against west ham, Cardiff and Norwich coming up which hopefully will yield some points - enjoy your weekend all!
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Please explain why Vlaar was taken off in that scenario. I did not see that his leg had fallen off and that is about the only reason I would accept. Stupid.
I would love to know why an experience backup for a player so vitally important if he is carrying a knock was not signed by the club.
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As i said in the match thread, only one side played football today and it wasn't us.
The way Lambert had us set up was practically 10 men behind the ball, we played very deep and compact, and this initially made it difficult for Everton to get through us, but it was very 'anti-football'. We had no out ball though and by the end we weren't even hoofing it in Benteke's general direction, we were just hoofing it. You can't 'play' like that for 90 minutes, all of our defending and closing down takes it's toll towards the end of games and players begin to tire, and their players then begin to find the space and make opportunities.
I'd have been happy if we'd of sneaked a win or draw, but FFS can we please try and play some football. We've played some good stuff against better teams than Everton so there really is no excuse for that kind of performance.
If you set up in a defensive formation with defensive tactics you end up in a negative mindset which is very hard to reverse. By the 60th minute they looked like Barnsley playing Barcelona. I will be go smacked if he shoulders any of the blame though
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Slight over reaction today I think....yea we were poor but take away the Liverpool game and Wednesdays and we have played like this most of the season. No real surprises today for me, Everton are a good side.
Surely you counter your own argument there, it's not an over reaction precisely because we have played like this for most of the season, despite the fact we know we can play better and a better style of football.
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We got what we'd deserved that simple. I have two issues with that display and they're related. Firstly I've been banging on about this for ages if you have possession stats of 40% or less on a regular basis you will lose more than you win, and considering we have less than 35% possession quite regularly that balance will be even more skewed. Lambert really doesn't get it.
Secondly I find it embarrassing that Villa as a club have become so small time. It's one thing for a team who get promoted to regularly play with their backs to the wall, but it's frankly embarrassing that we go to clubs and desperately try and cling on and offer nothing. That coupled with our transfer strategy is just not good enough. Aston Villa are a much bigger football than we look and play like at the moment.
Very well put across.
I've had a few weeks to think about it!
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I wish Poyet was our manager. Lambert just doesn't learn.
Poyet is looking a good manager in the making.
It's all well and good buying young, up and coming players and building a team but we need the right man in charge to make it work. Lambert most certainly is not that man. This team is no where as bad as he makes them.
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(https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/s403x403/1601202_791195037574723_680115482_n.jpg)
Those stats could represent many games under PL
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Tactics absolutely terrible. I wouldn't agree we got it spot on first half, Everton had nothing up front, yet we barely kept them out. And it was always going to be harder once Martinez had opportunity to tweak things second half.
It didn't help that Guzan's hoofs forward went largely uncontested, despite us having two of the best aerial foragers in the league.
We got what we deserved. We didn't even try to play the game in the one area of the pitch that we have Everton outclassed. Fckn stupid.
If we really are short on spending power we need a team that is set up to punch above its weight not below it. I bet Martinez cannot believe his luck.
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An embarrassment of the highest order.
That is anti football
Get that f in scottish tw@t out of my club
Were you saying that on Wednesday evening?
I was. Unlike some I wasn't letting one win paper over the cracks.
29% possession is embarrassing and I'm really fucking sick of it. He's turned us into a long ball team and probably the worst team to watch in the division. He really isn't the manager I thought we were getting. His tactics are from the stone age.
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Disappointing following the euphoria of Wednesday night. One of those that had we pulled it off it would have been a defensive materclass. However, I was surprised to see the changes to the line up and formation and ultimately our lack of attacking interest invited the inevitable.
Next four games before the Man City thrashing will determine whether we meander until the end of the season or get dragged back in for an uneasy finish to the season.
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I`m seriously beginning to wonder whether in years to come, the Lerner/Lambert combination will be looked on as an absolute catastrophe for Aston Villa football club, screw the "we`re better off than last year" argument, fact is, we are a piss poor side in a poor league, we`re bringing in sub-standard signings, investing less and less on the pitch and it shows, it`s just a matter of time before this disasterous policy catches up with us. In terms of quality of performance, we are going backwards. If things don`t improve, the gates will plunge next season, less revenue = even less investment and then what??....
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Defence battled well and in the end the pressure told - can't complain about the result as everton deserved the win but we gave them a hard game - hope Vlaar isn't injured , he didn't seem to be limping when he went off but we look dodgy without him at the heart of things .
Tenth place but still only 5 points above the relegation zone - 3 huge games against west ham, Cardiff and Norwich coming up which hopefully will yield some points - enjoy your weekend all!
I have to take issue with giving them a hard game. I think we made it far too easy for them
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Why did he change to three centre backs after the last two games being, arguably, out best. Bizarre. Would like him to explain his changes.
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I think we need some perspective here. Everton are a quality top 6 side. Also we do need to accept highs and lows. After Wednesday today should come as no surprise. West Ham a big game now.
Without wishing to sound like the manager, we go again.
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As is our way recently, one step forward, one step back. A team who just triumphed in a derby versus a team who were just humiliated in a derby. We needed to be ruthless and shove it up this poxy club, but of course, that was too easy wasn't it.
And it seems we're just scared of the ball, or indifferent to it. It happens too often and I'm fucking sick of it. I really hate giving Everton points and we're making a habit of it. This team, this club, unfortunately, is going nowhere with very little idea from any level on what to do about it. I can feel myself losing interest. And I hate that.
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I really don't know what's in the minds of the Villa hierarchy. To me, if you're looking for success on a shoestring, you need a canny manager with tactical acumen. Lambert is championed because he doesn't complain about the budget.
People may have enjoyed Wednesday's game. I enjoyed the result, but the match was painful. I think I've enjoyed listening to Villa once in the last four or so years, and that was the second half against Sunderland. I want to enjoy supporting the club again, and if the club is going to continue with this policy of spending pennies on players, the only way that will happen is a change of management.
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Confirms me in my views that Martinez is the anti-Villa and Lambert is an enigma.
Martinez regularly turned us over when he was Wigan manager and helped create the Swansea that has,on the cheap, become a safe mid-table club that is easy on the eye. He also turned up his nose when he had the chance to manage us so that he could stay at Wigan. Also, when you need his team to beat somebody you can be sure they will lose and when you need them to get beaten they will go and beat United or Chelsea. Fuck I cannot stand him.
As for Lambert, why does he tinker with the system? We got into our stride the last few games then he changes it. Pressing =good resuts so why change to the horrific abomination of a 3-5-2?
And here's hoping Vlaar isn't out for long. Longer term we need to start looking for his replacement as we can't have such a stop start player as the main component of our spine.
Depressing.
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I`m seriously beginning to wonder whether in years to come, the Lerner/Lambert combination will be looked on as an absolute catastrophe for Aston Villa football club, screw the "we`re better off than last year" argument, fact is, we are a piss poor side in a poor league, we`re bringing in sub-standard signings, investing less and less on the pitch and it shows, it`s just a matter of time before this disasterous policy catches up with us. In terms of quality of performance, we are going backwards. If things don`t improve, the gates will plunge next season, less revenue = even less investment and then what??....
With the wage bill having been slashed and the TV income up I think we must be very profitable at the moment. Is Randy trousering the profit or saving it for the summer? Or making what he can before he sells?
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People taking issue with him changing a winning side, it isn't the 80's. Also, was that not exactly what MON got slagged for? He picked a formation to stifle the opposition and for 65 minutes he got it spot on. We used the ball poorly but to me we looked shattered, maybe Wednesday night took it out of us?
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Second half was inexcusable. One goal up and we sit back and do nothing for 45 minutes.
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Bacuna goal (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1aswsy_goal-bacuna-everton-0-1-aston-villa-01-02-2014-highlights_sport)
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People taking issue with him changing a winning side, it isn't the 80's. Also, was that not exactly what MON got slagged for? He picked a formation to stifle the opposition and for 65 minutes he got it spot on. We used the ball poorly but to me we looked shattered, maybe Wednesday night took it out of us?
All the more reason to strengthen the squad what did we do? Fucking very little.
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An embarrassment of the highest order.
That is anti football
Get that f in scottish tw@t out of my club
Were you saying that on Wednesday evening?
I was. Unlike some I wasn't letting one win paper over the cracks.
29% possession is embarrassing and I'm really fucking sick of it. He's turned us into a long ball team and probably the worst team to watch in the division. He really isn't the manager I thought we were getting. His tactics are from the stone age.
I've got to agree with this. He's done a decent job in terms of league position given the resources at his disposal but the football is utterly awful.
The fact that he spent £7m on a long ball target in the summer and neglected to add creative midfielder says it all to me.
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Week after week barely any attempt to play football. No midfield, as we don't need one, aimless long balls at Benteke, occasionally combined with extreme defensiveness.
A decent result against Albion and a creditable draw at Anfield were nice but this season has been far more about the sort of shit we saw today.
We don't even try to play football.
If I weren't a Villa fan, we are exactly the sort of team I'd like to see get relegated. It us embarrassing, it was like that under McLeish and performances like today are no better.
Anyone who thinks this midfield, having opted not to strengthen, is going to mean anything other than this long ball shit till the end of the season is going to be disappointed.
I've now reached the point at which I can only think of one reason not to sack Lambert, and that is because it'd mean starting all over again, which manages to be more depressing a thought than seeing out the season playing like this.
I don't give a toss if we are five points and several places above the drop zone, if we carry on with this 30% possession shit we won't be there much longer. It is just embarrassing to watch, like Stoke except we're too brainless to do the gamesmanship stuff.
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Confirms me in my views that Martinez is the anti-Villa and Lambert is an enigma.
Martinez regularly turned us over when he was Wigan manager and helped create the Swansea that has,on the cheap, become a safe mid-table club that is easy on the eye. He also turned up his nose when he had the chance to manage us so that he could stay at Wigan. Also, when you need his team to beat somebody you can be sure they will lose and when you need them to get beaten they will go and beat United or Chelsea. Fuck I cannot stand him.
As for Lambert, why does he tinker with the system? We got into our stride the last few games then he changes it. Pressing =good resuts so why change to the horrific abomination of a 3-5-2?
And here's hoping Vlaar isn't out for long. Longer term we need to start looking for his replacement as we can't have such a stop start player as the main component of our spine.
Depressing.
Swansea that are in serious danger of going down? Wigan that went down?
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In twenty years' time, we'll be talking about how shit it was to be Villa fans now.
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I wonder what the players think of the tactics PL employs? We proved against Liverpool we can play, but 75% of the other games have been dire. The players cant enjoy playing like this and the better players like Benteke, Bertrand, Delph and Vlaar must be horrified to see what is going on.
Sooner or later our luck will run out and it could be this year. 10th place flatters us
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It is a squad that would struggle in the championship and we expect Lambert to get it into the top half of the premiership.
[/quote]
it is his squad, he bought the most of them. he is the one that decides to play with three centre halves against no centre forward
considering the utter dirge in the bottom half of the Barclays Premier League, a decent manager should be able to manage a side with the likes of benteke, gabby, guzan, vlaar, bertrand, delph into the top half. id prefer if we at least attempted to play football though.
its his managerial philosophy that is insulting to the game, mcleish is zdenek zeman like in comparison. I cant believe that the football we are playing and Lambert's reputation as a manager have not been talked about more in the mainsteam media. ive never seen anything like it since the backpass rule was abolished.
everton were shite today too with the exception of gareth barry who was a different level to the shite on both teams. from an irish perspective was very disappointed with our two glaswegians. both as is their wont flattered to deceive again. naismith coming on changed the game and thought pienaar was decent.
feel sorry for benteke to be playing with us. clark and baker both simply a disgrace today. some indictment of the standard of coaching in the Villa academy, the way those two treat the ball.
every non villa genuine football fan must be hoping we are relegated
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Week after week barely any attempt to play football. No midfield, as we don't need one, aimless long balls at Benteke, occasionally combined with extreme defensiveness.
A decent result against Albion and a creditable draw at Anfield were nice but this season has been far more about the sort of shit we saw today.
We don't even try to play football.
If I weren't a Villa fan, we are exactly the sort of team I'd like to see get relegated. It us embarrassing, it was like that under McLeish and performances like today are no better.
Anyone who thinks this midfield, having opted not to strengthen, is going to mean anything other than this long ball shit till the end of the season is going to be disappointed.
I've now reached the point at which I can only think of one reason not to sack Lambert, and that is because it'd mean starting all over again, which manages to be more depressing a thought than seeing out the season playing like this.
I don't give a toss if we are five points and several places above the drop zone, if we carry on with this 30% possession shit we won't be there much longer. It is just embarrassing to watch, like Stoke except we're too brainless to do the gamesmanship stuff.
I agree, it seems like the exciting game against Albion and the performance against Liverpool are almost in spite of our tactics. We are playing embarrassing and awful 'football' that is beneath a club of our size.
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Reverted to type. Core problems are still there. Lerner should've spent in the Jan window. I've lost confidence in him running this club. You can't do it on the cheap in this league. Sell up!
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Who needs new players when you have subs like Tonev and El Ahmadi available eh?
The lack of ambition being shown by the club right now is nothing short of disgraceful. We desperately needed one new midfielder as an absolute minimum.... nothing. Everton were missing Lukaku, coming off the back of a battering at Anfield and we played 3 centre backs vs their one up front who is a midfielder. Yet again we had less than 30% possession. It's beyond a joke.
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I think we need some perspective here. Everton are a quality top 6 side. Also we do need to accept highs and lows. After Wednesday today should come as no surprise. West Ham a big game now.
Without wishing to sound like the manager, we go again.
There's no shame losing to Everton at Goodison. there is shame - I think - in playing such anti-football for the whole of the second half. And it's disappointing to see us revert to reactive, on the back foot mode. When we'd been so much on the front foot at Anfield for example.
I really just did not expect to see Villa be such a regularly defensive, negative, unambitious side this season, after the way we finished last year. I just didn't expect it.
Given our circumstances, I don't mind being tenth at all (though if we're shifting from that it's down not up, given the points difference). But I do mind
On a side note, Dion Dublin and Garth Crooks are appalling pundits aren't they? Almost as bad as Robbie Fowler.
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People taking issue with him changing a winning side, it isn't the 80's. Also, was that not exactly what MON got slagged for? He picked a formation to stifle the opposition and for 65 minutes he got it spot on. We used the ball poorly but to me we looked shattered, maybe Wednesday night took it out of us?
I think that's the issue, he picked a formation to stifle their side, rather than to actually play football ourselves. I must admit for a while i thought it might just work, but with no real out ball and absolutely no midfield presence it became obvious the pressure and their massive possession were almost certainly going to pay off for them eventually.
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I think we need some perspective here. Everton are a quality top 6 side. Also we do need to accept highs and lows. After Wednesday today should come as no surprise. West Ham a big game now.
Without wishing to sound like the manager, we go again.
It's not the result so much but the manner of it.
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every time a team is desperate for a result we roll over. lots of pressure on us now in next 3 games
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People taking issue with him changing a winning side, it isn't the 80's. Also, was that not exactly what MON got slagged for? He picked a formation to stifle the opposition and for 65 minutes he got it spot on. We used the ball poorly but to me we looked shattered, maybe Wednesday night took it out of us?
How many times have we are we going to hear well it worked for 65 minutes?
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We are a very inconsistent team, we rarely string two wins together, a draw and a win is nearly always followed by a defeat, we win one in 4 games and that keeps us away from trouble, feel slightly vulnerable with so many below us winning but they are where they are for a reason and we will keep out of trouble, big game against the Hammers tho.
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In twenty years' time, we'll be talking about how shit it was to be Villa fans now.
On paper we should be so much better but for ability and style its the worst Villa side I've seen and I go back to 88. We struggled in 88-89 but had a better team. 90-91 and 94-95 we had quality sides that had done well in prior campaigns but ended up at the wrong end of the table. Both were better sides than this one. O'Leary's team was better to watch and contained better players. And yet we are 10th tonight! The league is mega poor.
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Confirms me in my views that Martinez is the anti-Villa and Lambert is an enigma.
Martinez regularly turned us over when he was Wigan manager and helped create the Swansea that has,on the cheap, become a safe mid-table club that is easy on the eye. He also turned up his nose when he had the chance to manage us so that he could stay at Wigan. Also, when you need his team to beat somebody you can be sure they will lose and when you need them to get beaten they will go and beat United or Chelsea. Fuck I cannot stand him.
As for Lambert, why does he tinker with the system? We got into our stride the last few games then he changes it. Pressing =good resuts so why change to the horrific abomination of a 3-5-2?
And here's hoping Vlaar isn't out for long. Longer term we need to start looking for his replacement as we can't have such a stop start player as the main component of our spine.
Depressing.
Swansea that are in serious danger of going down? Wigan that went down?
What's your point?Have you read my post?
He gave us two fingers when we tried to sign him, he was happier remaining at Wigan than joining us and they regularly used to beat us regardless who managed us. I detest the fucker. And yes, the Swansea that we have found ourselves being overshadowed by the past few years.
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The thing that was enjoyable about the Sunderland win last season and was pleasing about the comeback against the Boggies was that the side basically went 'fuck you, we're so much better than you' and showed it. Today, it was as if they were purposely told anybody who played their natural game would be fined. Even Delph looked average.
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People taking issue with him changing a winning side, it isn't the 80's. Also, was that not exactly what MON got slagged for? He picked a formation to stifle the opposition and for 65 minutes he got it spot on. We used the ball poorly but to me we looked shattered, maybe Wednesday night took it out of us?
How many times have we are we going to hear well it worked for 65 minutes?
Yea, during that 65 minutes we had the ball for about 18 of them and that is the lack of quality showing.
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I can't remember who said it. But there was a quote about most of villa's wins this series being 'almost by accident' and you'd have to say there's a lot in that.
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I think we need some perspective here. Everton are a quality top 6 side. Also we do need to accept highs and lows. After Wednesday today should come as no surprise. West Ham a big game now.
Without wishing to sound like the manager, we go again.
It's not the result so much but the manner of it.
Indeed.
Losing at Goodison isn't embarrassing.
Playing like that with less than 30% possession is though.
And it is hardly rare. We managed less possession than that *at home* to Swansea.
It is embarrassing. McLeish made me embarrassed to be a Villa fan with his tactics, Lambert is now doing the same.
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Manager reaction from Goodison Park.
Paul Lambert felt his side were very unlucky not to leave Goodison with a point after a late double earned Everton all three points. 'I thought the lads were really excellent in the first half against a really strong side especially at home. We got the goal deservedly and I thought we could push on from there. They came back strong in the 2nd half but I thought we still had good chances to settle it. There isn't much you can do about the quality of the strike that wins it but I felt we deserved something today for our work rate. But you move on and go again on Monday.'
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People taking issue with him changing a winning side, it isn't the 80's. Also, was that not exactly what MON got slagged for? He picked a formation to stifle the opposition and for 65 minutes he got it spot on. We used the ball poorly but to me we looked shattered, maybe Wednesday night took it out of us?
I think that's the issue, he picked a formation to stifle their side, rather than to actually play football ourselves. I must admit for a while i thought it might just work, but with no real out ball and absolutely no midfield presence it became obvious the pressure and their massive possession were almost certainly going to pay off for them eventually.
Is that not his job? If he'd played 4 at the back and Lowton at right back, the midfield runners would have had a field day and Baines would have tore Lowts a new one. People saying they had no striker on the pitch but we had three CB's clearly have no perspective of how the modern game is played. How many times have Barca or Spain played without a striker?
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Over reaction. We were superb at the back for 60 mins. They'd had one shot on target and playing 3-5-2 had stopped them from being able to pass through us. Vlaar gets injured, can't turn for the first and goes off and we look shoddy at the back. If Vlaar stays fit we take 3 points and people talk about how resilient we are this season and how we are only 7 points behind the toon. Yes I would like us to play more expansive but we weren't poor today. The game plan almost worked a treat.
With the greatest respect this is so far off the mark (IMO). This type of performance (similar to west ham against Chelsea) will probably yield a result 1 in about 10 times. If you constantly submit possession and territory you will almost always cave eventually and if you don't it will almost certainly be down to luck. Our defence was excellent for 60mins but they were constantly being pressed. That was barely a game plan, don't let organised defending cloud a complete reluctance to try and play football. I could accept that performance (just about) if we were playing bayern Munich. But we weren't, we were playing a below strength team assembled for a similar amount of money, missing their main and only real striker coming off the back of a 4-0 defeat by a team playing a style and formation we usually utilise and get results away from home with. Their manager is using someone else's players and has been in his position a lot less time than ours.
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I think we need some perspective here. Everton are a quality top 6 side. Also we do need to accept highs and lows. After Wednesday today should come as no surprise. West Ham a big game now.
Without wishing to sound like the manager, we go again.
It's not the result so much but the manner of it.
Indeed.
Losing at Goodison isn't embarrassing.
Playing like that with less than 30% possession is though.
And it is hardly rare. We managed less possession than that *at home* to Swansea.
It is embarrassing. McLeish made me embarrassed to be a Villa fan with his tactics, Lambert is now doing the same.
Yep it's appalling.
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Manager reaction from Goodison Park.
Paul Lambert felt his side were very unlucky not to leave Goodison with a point after a late double earned Everton all three points. 'I thought the lads were really excellent in the first half against a really strong side especially at home. We got the goal deservedly and I thought we could push on from there. They came back strong in the 2nd half but I thought we still had good chances to settle it. There isn't much you can do about the quality of the strike that wins it but I felt we deserved something today for our work rate. But you move on and go again on Monday.'
Ha ha. I would laugh if I thought he was joking but her seriously believes what he is saying and for that reason we will never under improve under him.
Where exactly were the chances to settle it he mentions?
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what I took from the baggies game - we conceded 3 to a rubbish team, could have easily conceded another 3 and we were lucky to hold on in the end. Is that negative? I don't think do, its how it panned out.
At home.
Please god can some fruitcake pay what Randy wants.
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Manager reaction from Goodison Park.
Paul Lambert felt his side were very unlucky not to leave Goodison with a point after a late double earned Everton all three points. 'I thought the lads were really excellent in the first half against a really strong side especially at home. We got the goal deservedly and I thought we could push on from there. They came back strong in the 2nd half but I thought we still had good chances to settle it. There isn't much you can do about the quality of the strike that wins it but I felt we deserved something today for our work rate. But you move on and go again on Monday.'
I wonder what good chances in the second half lambert is thinking about?
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In twenty years' time, we'll be talking about how shit it was to be Villa fans now.
I hope this is as bad as it gets. Without serious investment in the summer I fear for us next season as the young and hungry players aren't improving enough and I am sure the teams in the bottom half who survive will be busting a gut to strengthen in the summer.
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I would love to see his reaction upon seeing those stats from earlier. I really would. Whos he kidding?
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Week after week barely any attempt to play football. No midfield, as we don't need one, aimless long balls at Benteke, occasionally combined with extreme defensiveness.
A decent result against Albion and a creditable draw at Anfield were nice but this season has been far more about the sort of shit we saw today.
We don't even try to play football.
If I weren't a Villa fan, we are exactly the sort of team I'd like to see get relegated. It us embarrassing, it was like that under McLeish and performances like today are no better.
Anyone who thinks this midfield, having opted not to strengthen, is going to mean anything other than this long ball shit till the end of the season is going to be disappointed.
I've now reached the point at which I can only think of one reason not to sack Lambert, and that is because it'd mean starting all over again, which manages to be more depressing a thought than seeing out the season playing like this.
I don't give a toss if we are five points and several places above the drop zone, if we carry on with this 30% possession shit we won't be there much longer. It is just embarrassing to watch, like Stoke except we're too brainless to do the gamesmanship stuff.
Good post and agree with all except one point. We wouldn't have to "start again" if we bring in a new manager. We need a manager that can bring out the best from this squad and develop them, basically somebody that understands how to play football, has a plan and can build on it. It's so bloody obvious Lambert is not that man, in fact he's the absolute opposite of what we need. He's way out of his depth.
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That interview sums up Lambert, he genuinely doesn't seem to understand football.
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I can't claim I wanted Martinez to come to Villa after McLeish was sacked, but it's not as if Wigan Athletic were swimming in cash either. Why couldn't we find a manager anywhere that plays decent football within financial constraints?
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People taking issue with him changing a winning side, it isn't the 80's. Also, was that not exactly what MON got slagged for? He picked a formation to stifle the opposition and for 65 minutes he got it spot on. We used the ball poorly but to me we looked shattered, maybe Wednesday night took it out of us?
How many times have we are we going to hear well it worked for 65 minutes?
Yea, during that 65 minutes we had the ball for about 18 of them and that is the lack of quality showing.
They had one shot on target in those 65 minutes and then Vlaar got injured. The debate about whether we should have signed a CB is there to be had but I don't think you can slaughter us today. We were well worth the lead in the first half, the second half was poor but I honestly think the mental night we had n Wednesday might have had something to do with that. Worth noting that the Everton v Liverpool game was dead after 30 mins and they had an extra days rest.
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Manager reaction from Goodison Park.
Paul Lambert felt his side were very unlucky not to leave Goodison with a point after a late double earned Everton all three points. 'I thought the lads were really excellent in the first half against a really strong side especially at home. We got the goal deservedly and I thought we could push on from there. They came back strong in the 2nd half but I thought we still had good chances to settle it. There isn't much you can do about the quality of the strike that wins it but I felt we deserved something today for our work rate. But you move on and go again on Monday.'
Ha ha. I would laugh if I thought he was joking but her seriously believes what he is saying and for that reason we will never under improve under him.
Where exactly were the chances to settle it he mentions?
Don't you remember that hoof up field that Benteke nearly touched? All he had to do was bring it down, beat 3 men and stick it in the top corner.
Such fine margins...
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Manager reaction - Everton 2-1 Aston Villa
Aston Villa boss Paul Lambert: "We were excellent up until that first Everton goal, then the second it's a world-class free-kick but I'm not sure we deserved to lose the game."
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Bacuna goal (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1aswsy_goal-bacuna-everton-0-1-aston-villa-01-02-2014-highlights_sport)
Nice goal.
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Please explain why Vlaar was taken off in that scenario. I did not see that his leg had fallen off and that is about the only reason I would accept. Stupid.
Any chance you can let us know what Randy' s plans for the future of the club actually are?
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Manager reaction from Goodison Park.
Paul Lambert felt his side were very unlucky not to leave Goodison with a point after a late double earned Everton all three points. 'I thought the lads were really excellent in the first half against a really strong side especially at home. We got the goal deservedly and I thought we could push on from there. They came back strong in the 2nd half but I thought we still had good chances to settle it. There isn't much you can do about the quality of the strike that wins it but I felt we deserved something today for our work rate. But you move on and go again on Monday.'
Ha ha. I would laugh if I thought he was joking but her seriously believes what he is saying and for that reason we will never under improve under him.
Where exactly were the chances to settle it he mentions?
And a decent work rate is the minimum I would expect. He makes out that alone is enough to get something from the game
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We pick ourselves up and we go again.
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Manager reaction from Goodison Park.
Paul Lambert felt his side were very unlucky not to leave Goodison with a point after a late double earned Everton all three points. 'I thought the lads were really excellent in the first half against a really strong side especially at home. We got the goal deservedly and I thought we could push on from there. They came back strong in the 2nd half but I thought we still had good chances to settle it. There isn't much you can do about the quality of the strike that wins it but I felt we deserved something today for our work rate. But you move on and go again on Monday.'
Ha ha. I would laugh if I thought he was joking but her seriously believes what he is saying and for that reason we will never under improve under him.
Where exactly were the chances to settle it he mentions?
He must think people are stupid. I wish one of these gutless fucking journalists would take him to task on this drivel
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Oh, and many thanks for signing Benteke, Paul, but I don't want you to be the one spending the profits of his sale this summer.
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You'd have to hope that with bent, Ireland, hopefully Hutton and given off the wage bill, we could have a bit more scope for investment.
I think people criticise Westwood too much but he was anonymous today. But I do think the formation and tactics were the main culprits. It was very much 53 (then a big gap) then 2, in the second half
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Manager reaction - Everton 2-1 Aston Villa
Aston Villa boss Paul Lambert: "We were excellent up until that first Everton goal, then the second it's a world-class free-kick but I'm not sure we deserved to lose the game."
Genuinely completely delusional and doesn't understand the game. We totally got we deserved.
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Missed the first half but second seemed to be us sitting back and then "hoof". Absolutely zero attempt to pass the ball or try to build an attack through the middle. It was just a question of time before Everton got back into it, anyone could see that. I just don't understand Lambert, we showed in the last two games we can play some decent stuff going forward so why not stick to that? It's starting to look as if hoof ball is his natural tendency or comfort zone and if that's the case then I don't want him as our manager in the long term.
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You'd have to hope that with bent, Ireland, hopefully Hutton and given off the wage bill, we could have a bit more scope for investment.
I think people criticise Westwood too much but he was anonymous today. But I do think the formation and tactics were the main culprits. It was very much 53 (then a big gap) then 2, in the second half
I thought Ireland was off the wage bill?
Thats only 3 players wages, we should be able to get better players in on our income...
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I would love to see his reaction upon seeing those stats from earlier. I really would. Whos he kidding?
He would say exactly what he said before 'the amount of possession doesnt win you the game', which is a real crass response, but a typical one from him
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I think we need some perspective here. Everton are a quality top 6 side. Also we do need to accept highs and lows. After Wednesday today should come as no surprise. West Ham a big game now.
Without wishing to sound like the manager, we go again.
It's not the result so much but the manner of it.
Indeed.
Losing at Goodison isn't embarrassing.
Playing like that with less than 30% possession is though.
And it is hardly rare. We managed less possession than that *at home* to Swansea.
It is embarrassing. McLeish made me embarrassed to be a Villa fan with his tactics, Lambert is now doing the same.
Agreed. The defeat was not shameful, but the whole club, tactics included, feels a little cowardly at the moment.
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Got exactly what we deserved.
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Anyone looking fwd to the west ham game? That's gonna be like watching a drunken cretin try to open a door with a banana for a key.
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Next week against West Ham is going to be a belter.
I reckon we'll have 30% possession, they'll have 30%, and the other 40% will be entirely unaccounted for, it will just slip away into some sort of footballing black hole.
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I have to believe Vlaar was injured. But Clarke fouls a player almost every challenge he makes. There was no threat at the edge of the box and he just steams in with a reckless attempt handing them a chance on a plate ......This game shows like many this season why we need a player sitting in the MF who can retain and distribute the ball. Which Petrov was very good at .....
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Bit disappointing. I dont understand why a good midfielder like Lambert has no regard for having one in our team.
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You'd have to hope that with bent, Ireland, hopefully Hutton and given off the wage bill, we could have a bit more scope for investment.
I think people criticise Westwood too much but he was anonymous today. But I do think the formation and tactics were the main culprits. It was very much 53 (then a big gap) then 2, in the second half
I thought Ireland was off the wage bill?
Thats only 3 players wages, we should be able to get better players in on our income...
That's the whole point, for the last five years we haven't had any net income. We've been running a massive deficit. It's been fairly well publicised so I continue to find it surprising when people criticise the club for not spending. It's bad spending that put us in this tedious position
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You'd have to hope that with bent, Ireland, hopefully Hutton and given off the wage bill, we could have a bit more scope for investment.
I think people criticise Westwood too much but he was anonymous today. But I do think the formation and tactics were the main culprits. It was very much 53 (then a big gap) then 2, in the second half
I thought Ireland was off the wage bill?
Thats only 3 players wages, we should be able to get better players in on our income...
This is another issue, I'm sorry but I imagine most clubs have some players on big wages they don't want/need. It doesn't stop those clubs from showing any ambition at all. Bent, Given and Hutton being on the wage bill are not an excuse for buying hopeful punts and average players. We should be in for decent players.
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If we are to play five at the back you cant play Holt up front. He is shockingly immobile and can only really play as the sole centre forward with two quick players running off him. Not him and Benteke together.
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Week after week barely any attempt to play football. No midfield, as we don't need one, aimless long balls at Benteke, occasionally combined with extreme defensiveness.
A decent result against Albion and a creditable draw at Anfield were nice but this season has been far more about the sort of shit we saw today.
We don't even try to play football.
If I weren't a Villa fan, we are exactly the sort of team I'd like to see get relegated. It us embarrassing, it was like that under McLeish and performances like today are no better.
Anyone who thinks this midfield, having opted not to strengthen, is going to mean anything other than this long ball shit till the end of the season is going to be disappointed.
I've now reached the point at which I can only think of one reason not to sack Lambert, and that is because it'd mean starting all over again, which manages to be more depressing a thought than seeing out the season playing like this.
I don't give a toss if we are five points and several places above the drop zone, if we carry on with this 30% possession shit we won't be there much longer. It is just embarrassing to watch, like Stoke except we're too brainless to do the gamesmanship stuff.
Good post and agree with all except one point. We wouldn't have to "start again" if we bring in a new manager. We need a manager that can bring out the best from this squad and develop them, basically somebody that understands how to play football, has a plan and can build on it. It's so bloody obvious Lambert is not that man, in fact he's the absolute opposite of what we need. He's way out of his depth.
agreed top post. This is exactly where we are.
Embarrassing. We are shit and scared with it.
I'm awful at predictions, but I think it will be a rare game when we concede less than 2 goals. We will be very close to the bottom three come May.
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Manager reaction from Goodison Park.
Paul Lambert felt his side were very unlucky not to leave Goodison with a point after a late double earned Everton all three points. 'I thought the lads were really excellent in the first half against a really strong side especially at home. We got the goal deservedly and I thought we could push on from there. They came back strong in the 2nd half but I thought we still had good chances to settle it. There isn't much you can do about the quality of the strike that wins it but I felt we deserved something today for our work rate. But you move on and go again on Monday.'
Ha ha. I would laugh if I thought he was joking but her seriously believes what he is saying and for that reason we will never under improve under him.
Where exactly were the chances to settle it he mentions?
And a decent work rate is the minimum I would expect. He makes out that alone is enough to get something from the game
Indeed. I stopped taking seriously anything he says a few months ago.
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Over reaction. We were superb at the back for 60 mins. They'd had one shot on target and playing 3-5-2 had stopped them from being able to pass through us. Vlaar gets injured, can't turn for the first and goes off and we look shoddy at the back. If Vlaar stays fit we take 3 points and people talk about how resilient we are this season and how we are only 7 points behind the toon. Yes I would like us to play more expansive but we weren't poor today. The game plan almost worked a treat.
With the greatest respect this is so far off the mark (IMO). This type of performance (similar to west ham against Chelsea) will probably yield a result 1 in about 10 times. If you constantly submit possession and territory you will almost always cave eventually and if you don't it will almost certainly be down to luck. Our defence was excellent for 60mins but they were constantly being pressed. That was barely a game plan, don't let organised defending cloud a complete reluctance to try and play football. I could accept that performance (just about) if we were playing bayern Munich. But we weren't, we were playing a below strength team assembled for a similar amount of money, missing their main and only real striker coming off the back of a 4-0 defeat by a team playing a style and formation we usually utilise and get results away from home with. Their manager is using someone else's players and has been in his position a lot less time than ours.
The second half was bad, I grant you. That first half was a good performance. We sat in, broke and looked dangerous on the counter. We seemed to abandon that in the second half but I don't for one minute think Lambert told them to. I think they looked shot after Wednesday. One of the things I like about Lambert Is the way he alters our formation to the opposition we are playing, it shows a flexibility that you don't normally get from British coaches. We are the only side in the league cutting our wage bill, both our major signings have been ruled out for the season and we are sat in tenth. I just don't think he is doing that badly.
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Anyone looking fwd to the west ham game? That's gonna be like watching a drunken cretin try to open a door with a banana for a key.
Providing Carroll gets his red card rescinded which I think he will, alardyce and lambert should just both agree to not play any midfielders and let the keepers take it in turns launching Hail Marys at their respective big men up front
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I'm listening to Lambert now on WM and he is saying we did not deserve to lose as Guzan had nothing to do for 70 mins! I'm stunned
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Next week against West Ham is going to be a belter.
I reckon we'll have 30% possession, they'll have 30%, and the other 40% will be entirely unaccounted for, it will just slip away into some sort of footballing black hole.
40 % ball boys, mascot, us in the stands
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Manager reaction from Goodison Park.
Paul Lambert felt his side were very unlucky not to leave Goodison with a point after a late double earned Everton all three points. 'I thought the lads were really excellent in the first half against a really strong side especially at home. We got the goal deservedly and I thought we could push on from there. They came back strong in the 2nd half but I thought we still had good chances to settle it. There isn't much you can do about the quality of the strike that wins it but I felt we deserved something today for our work rate. But you move on and go again on Monday.'
Ha ha. I would laugh if I thought he was joking but her seriously believes what he is saying and for that reason we will never under improve under him.
Where exactly were the chances to settle it he mentions?
He must think people are stupid. I wish one of these gutless fucking journalists would take him to task on this drivel
Isn't that what Pat Murphy tries to do only to get absolutely slated on here and spoken to like shit by the manager?
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Anyone looking fwd to the west ham game? That's gonna be like watching a drunken cretin try to open a door with a banana for a key.
No im not but like a bloody fool I have just ordered mine.
Massive game now. Hopefully Carroll is suspended. He will give Clark a torrid time if he does play
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I think hartman is partly right.With a better Gabby instead of Holt, and a better midfielder than Westwood, then we would'nt have lost today.
Bacuna and Bertrand were very good, and the back 3 restricted them to almost nothing until they scored.The lack of quality on the ball was our undoing.
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I'm listening to Lambert now on WM and he is saying we did not deserve to lose as Guzan had nothing to do for 70 mins! I'm stunned
He didn't
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I would love to see his reaction upon seeing those stats from earlier. I really would. Whos he kidding?
He would say exactly what he said before 'the amount of possession doesnt win you the game', which is a real crass response, but a typical one from him
Lots of posters on here were saying similar after we somehow beat Southampton and I got slated for posting that the whole culture of the club from boardroom, pitch to terrace had to change. There's a lot of sneering at sides who are good in possession for some reason. Give me ninety minutes of that over the backs-to-the-wall stuff we rely on.
We have to change as a club. I think Houllier tried to put us on a modernising journey but he went too far too fast and alienated players and fans. The future will not belong to the sides like West Ham, Stoke, Palace and what Villa are fast becoming. It will belong to those who can relax with the ball and keep it from their opponent. If you surrender possession & territory you are asking for trouble as % alone will ensure the other team will have more shots and that eventually your side will make a mistake in defence.
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'We go again on Monday'
I'd love to see one of our training sessions. I can only imagine it is currently a case of 10 laps of the pitch then 30 mins of Benteke standing on the half way line while the rest of the team aims long balls at him.
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Worrying that teams below us won today. Can see another struggle in the next few months. Sick of this year after year. Club is treading water under Lerner's ownership.
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Week after week barely any attempt to play football. No midfield, as we don't need one, aimless long balls at Benteke, occasionally combined with extreme defensiveness.
A decent result against Albion and a creditable draw at Anfield were nice but this season has been far more about the sort of shit we saw today.
We don't even try to play football.
If I weren't a Villa fan, we are exactly the sort of team I'd like to see get relegated. It us embarrassing, it was like that under McLeish and performances like today are no better.
Anyone who thinks this midfield, having opted not to strengthen, is going to mean anything other than this long ball shit till the end of the season is going to be disappointed.
I've now reached the point at which I can only think of one reason not to sack Lambert, and that is because it'd mean starting all over again, which manages to be more depressing a thought than seeing out the season playing like this.
I don't give a toss if we are five points and several places above the drop zone, if we carry on with this 30% possession shit we won't be there much longer. It is just embarrassing to watch, like Stoke except we're too brainless to do the gamesmanship stuff.
Good post and agree with all except one point. We wouldn't have to "start again" if we bring in a new manager. We need a manager that can bring out the best from this squad and develop them, basically somebody that understands how to play football, has a plan and can build on it. It's so bloody obvious Lambert is not that man, in fact he's the absolute opposite of what we need. He's way out of his depth.
agreed top post. This is exactly where we are.
Embarrassing. We are shit and scared with it.
I'm awful at predictions, but I think it will be a rare game when we concede less than 2 goals. We will be very close to the bottom three come May.
I bet we are no lower than 12th
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Bent is on Fulham's wage bill, in any case, at least a percentage of it will be.
The problem with the spending isn't that we need to spend 20m more every window, it is that we just buy mediocre players from the lower leagues or traditional selling leagues, as we are working to a strict wage bill.
We didn't need to spend hugely this window, we needed a midfielder, like we have done for two years now, but all that comes from the club is Lambert telling people about the players we can't afford, then saying we are working on about 15 things, only to sign nobody.
Norwich are such c***s, but really, a blind man on a galloping horse could have spotted the potential for them to screw us over re Hoolahan, but we allowed it to happen. Naive and stupid, and 24 hours later we get a reminder of why we needed that player in the first place.
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I think hartman is partly right.With a better Gabby instead of Holt, and a better midfielder than Westwood, then we would'nt have lost today.
Bacuna and Bertrand were very good, and the back 3 restricted them to almost nothing until they scored.The lack of quality on the ball was our undoing.
It's partially that, but it's tactical as well. Why start 3 centre halves against a team with no strikers? it immediately says you don't want possession. Lambert has lost any sort of attacking thoughts he ever had, and we are an embarrassing team. As paulie says we're the sort of team that I would want to see relegated if I wasn't a fan.
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If we are to play five at the back you cant play Holt up front. He is shockingly immobile and can only really play as the sole centre forward with two quick players running off him. Not him and Benteke together.
Completely agree. And I think pretty much everyone called this as soon as they saw the team.
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Manager reaction from Goodison Park.
Paul Lambert felt his side were very unlucky not to leave Goodison with a point after a late double earned Everton all three points. 'I thought the lads were really excellent in the first half against a really strong side especially at home. We got the goal deservedly and I thought we could push on from there. They came back strong in the 2nd half but I thought we still had good chances to settle it. There isn't much you can do about the quality of the strike that wins it but I felt we deserved something today for our work rate. But you move on and go again on Monday.'
Ha ha. I would laugh if I thought he was joking but her seriously believes what he is saying and for that reason we will never under improve under him.
Where exactly were the chances to settle it he mentions?
He must think people are stupid. I wish one of these gutless fucking journalists would take him to task on this drivel
Isn't that what Pat Murphy tries to do only to get absolutely slated on here and spoken to like shit by the manager?
There is obvious history between Murphy and PL as evidenced by PLs very defensive but aggressive answers to questions after the West Brom game.
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Week after week barely any attempt to play football. No midfield, as we don't need one, aimless long balls at Benteke, occasionally combined with extreme defensiveness.
A decent result against Albion and a creditable draw at Anfield were nice but this season has been far more about the sort of shit we saw today.
We don't even try to play football.
If I weren't a Villa fan, we are exactly the sort of team I'd like to see get relegated. It us embarrassing, it was like that under McLeish and performances like today are no better.
Anyone who thinks this midfield, having opted not to strengthen, is going to mean anything other than this long ball shit till the end of the season is going to be disappointed.
I've now reached the point at which I can only think of one reason not to sack Lambert, and that is because it'd mean starting all over again, which manages to be more depressing a thought than seeing out the season playing like this.
I don't give a toss if we are five points and several places above the drop zone, if we carry on with this 30% possession shit we won't be there much longer. It is just embarrassing to watch, like Stoke except we're too brainless to do the gamesmanship stuff.
Good post and agree with all except one point. We wouldn't have to "start again" if we bring in a new manager. We need a manager that can bring out the best from this squad and develop them, basically somebody that understands how to play football, has a plan and can build on it. It's so bloody obvious Lambert is not that man, in fact he's the absolute opposite of what we need. He's way out of his depth.
agreed top post. This is exactly where we are.
Embarrassing. We are shit and scared with it.
I'm awful at predictions, but I think it will be a rare game when we concede less than 2 goals. We will be very close to the bottom three come May.
I bet we are no lower than 12th
I'll have some Paul, it must be good
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How many games have we actually played well in this season? I think you can count them on one hand. Arsenal and Chelsea away. Liverpool away for 45 mins (a good result and a bit of resolute defending but backs to the wall in the second half). Parts of the WBA game. That's about it?
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4 shots - 1 on target. 1 corner (92nd minute) 18 fouls. 29% possession. Lucky to get away with 2-1.
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If we are to play five at the back you cant play Holt up front. He is shockingly immobile and can only really play as the sole centre forward with two quick players running off him. Not him and Benteke together.
This I agree with. However, I don't know who else I would have played. To me Albrighton is too naive and Tonev isn't ready. Gabby really is massive for us.
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Skimmed the thread only, it seems most aren't happy with that performance but I have to admit, with 20 minutes to go, I was starting to think Lambert had played it perfectly.
We'd got the goal with a classic overlapping move and the defence looked unrecognizably solid with the five at the back. The only criticism I had at that point was bacuna giving Baines too much freedom and our front two not showing wide as an outlet when it was desperately needed.
Then all of a sudden we're two-one down....
I suppose you could say we got what we deserved ultimately, but sometimes it's a fine line between these things coming off and being a hero, and apparent idiotic failure.
Got to say though, if Ron Vlaar is injured and out for any length of time, the day after the transfer window has shut, when we all know the consequences of Clark/Baker playing together, then Lambert deserves every bit of flak going.
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(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/s403x403/1604673_791215624239331_499429622_n.jpg)
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Apparently vlaar has a tight hamstring
I'm not sure we'll win again until he's back so I hope it's not too bad. I wonder if we'll see Okore this season?
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I despise the way this ownership know so little about football. They have no idea what success is, what it costs and what fans aspire to see.
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If we are to play five at the back you cant play Holt up front. He is shockingly immobile and can only really play as the sole centre forward with two quick players running off him. Not him and Benteke together.
This I agree with. However, I don't know who else I would have played. To me Albrighton is too naive and Tonev isn't ready. Gabby really is massive for us.
Weimann innit
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An embarrassment of the highest order.
That is anti football
Get that f in scottish tw@t out of my club
Were you saying that on Wednesday evening?
Exactly, some overreactions in here. Lambert is doing fine with what he has. We are 10th, we aren't going down. This summer is important though.
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Over reaction. We were superb at the back for 60 mins. They'd had one shot on target and playing 3-5-2 had stopped them from being able to pass through us. Vlaar gets injured, can't turn for the first and goes off and we look shoddy at the back. If Vlaar stays fit we take 3 points and people talk about how resilient we are this season and how we are only 7 points behind the toon. Yes I would like us to play more expansive but we weren't poor today. The game plan almost worked a treat.
With the greatest respect this is so far off the mark (IMO). This type of performance (similar to west ham against Chelsea) will probably yield a result 1 in about 10 times. If you constantly submit possession and territory you will almost always cave eventually and if you don't it will almost certainly be down to luck. Our defence was excellent for 60mins but they were constantly being pressed. That was barely a game plan, don't let organised defending cloud a complete reluctance to try and play football. I could accept that performance (just about) if we were playing bayern Munich. But we weren't, we were playing a below strength team assembled for a similar amount of money, missing their main and only real striker coming off the back of a 4-0 defeat by a team playing a style and formation we usually utilise and get results away from home with. Their manager is using someone else's players and has been in his position a lot less time than ours.
The second half was bad, I grant you. That first half was a good performance. We sat in, broke and looked dangerous on the counter. We seemed to abandon that in the second half but I don't for one minute think Lambert told them to. I think they looked shot after Wednesday. One of the things I like about Lambert Is the way he alters our formation to the opposition we are playing, it shows a flexibility that you don't normally get from British coaches. We are the only side in the league cutting our wage bill, both our major signings have been ruled out for the season and we are sat in tenth. I just don't think he is doing that badly.
I understand where you're coming from but we aren't playing any football whatsoever. Its scrappy long-ball shite with the odd decent counter-attack thrown in.
If we had a bigger budget I wouldn't want Lambert to spend it. £7m on Kozak when we are in such desperate need of a decent midfielder?
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People taking issue with him changing a winning side, it isn't the 80's. Also, was that not exactly what MON got slagged for? He picked a formation to stifle the opposition and for 65 minutes he got it spot on. We used the ball poorly but to me we looked shattered, maybe Wednesday night took it out of us?
I think that's the issue, he picked a formation to stifle their side, rather than to actually play football ourselves. I must admit for a while i thought it might just work, but with no real out ball and absolutely no midfield presence it became obvious the pressure and their massive possession were almost certainly going to pay off for them eventually.
Is that not his job? If he'd played 4 at the back and Lowton at right back, the midfield runners would have had a field day and Baines would have tore Lowts a new one. People saying they had no striker on the pitch but we had three CB's clearly have no perspective of how the modern game is played. How many times have Barca or Spain played without a striker?
Well i would say the remit of his job is a little larger than 'pick a side to stiffle the opposition', for instance i seem to remember the club and Lambert saying at the beginning of his tenure something about 'playing football' the right way.
I agree that we had to be wary of Everton's goal scoring threat, with 34 of their 43 goals this season not coming from their main striker, and said as much in the prematch thread and the start of the match thread. We weren't however playing Bareclona and have played better football against better teams then them this season so i don't agree there was a need for such completely negative tactics. The way we were set up we had no midfield or attacking threat whatsoever and without a massive slice of luck such as we had at Southampton, Everton we're always going to get the result.
I would rather lose playing football and having a go, than playing this negative ****
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How many games have we actually played well in this season? I think you can count them on one hand. Arsenal and Chelsea away. Liverpool away for 45 mins (a good result and a bit of resolute defending but backs to the wall in the second half). Parts of the WBA game. That's about it?
Man City was a great result and a decent second half performance but the first half was one of the most one sided halves I've ever seen.
We are just so unconvincing. Great resilience against Albion but you even saw the same thing there, a near total inability to keep the ball and a constant lumping it up at Benteke.
We may very we'll finish 12th. We might finish 17th. I don't know, but honestly, who wants to watch us play like an Allardyce team?
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The problem with Lambert's tactics isn't that he's long ball, it's that he's impatient to the extent that long balls become acceptable. If there's space in the midfield like against Liverpool then we'll pass it quickly along the floor through the middle, but if that space isn't there we'll be just as impatient to get it forward quickly, resulting in the old 'lump it and lose it' situation.
What Lambert saw as successful against Liverpool wasn't the fact that we were passing it along the floor, but that we were getting it to Benteke quickly. He doesn't seem to realise that the method of getting the ball there is all important. The players have no calm, no training in how to move when a teammate gets the ball, no clues on when to hold it and when to make the telling pass, and are obviously drilled to get it forward quickly by whatever means necessary. If the opposition give us space in the middle, great. If they don't, like almost every team in Europe since 2005, tough shit.
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Manager reaction from Goodison Park.
Paul Lambert felt his side were very unlucky not to leave Goodison with a point after a late double earned Everton all three points. 'I thought the lads were really excellent in the first half against a really strong side especially at home. We got the goal deservedly and I thought we could push on from there. They came back strong in the 2nd half but I thought we still had good chances to settle it. There isn't much you can do about the quality of the strike that wins it but I felt we deserved something today for our work rate. But you move on and go again on Monday.'
Ha ha. I would laugh if I thought he was joking but her seriously believes what he is saying and for that reason we will never under improve under him.
Where exactly were the chances to settle it he mentions?
He must think people are stupid. I wish one of these gutless fucking journalists would take him to task on this drivel
Isn't that what Pat Murphy tries to do only to get absolutely slated on here and spoken to like shit by the manager?
I guess so. But for me, I would ask "which good chances, Paul?" Or " how did you deserve the goal, Paul? It was your first attack of the entire game" or "can you explain your teams reluctance to try and play football?"
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I think hartman is partly right.With a better Gabby instead of Holt, and a better midfielder than Westwood, then we would'nt have lost today.
Bacuna and Bertrand were very good, and the back 3 restricted them to almost nothing until they scored.The lack of quality on the ball was our undoing.
If only we had the opportunity , some kind of window to address that lack of quality on the ball, particularly in midfield.
So frustrating.
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I think hartman is partly right.With a better Gabby instead of Holt, and a better midfielder than Westwood, then we would'nt have lost today.
Bacuna and Bertrand were very good, and the back 3 restricted them to almost nothing until they scored.The lack of quality on the ball was our undoing.
It's partially that, but it's tactical as well. Why start 3 centre halves against a team with no strikers? it immediately says you don't want possession. Lambert has lost any sort of attacking thoughts he ever had, and we are an embarrassing team. As paulie says we're the sort of team that I would want to see relegated if I wasn't a fan.
No it doesn't. Martinez plays three at the back all the time and his sides always look to retain possession. It says you want them going outside you and not playing through you. Baines is a winger but he underlaps rather than overlaps and we forced him outside today.
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I despise the way this ownership know so little about football. They have no idea what success is, what it costs and what fans aspire to see.
Yep. An amazing few years in villa history and such passivity around the whole club.
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I played centre back for a Sunday league team that had a decent back four and a piss-poor midfield. None of us at the back wanted to hoof the ball aimlessly but because there was no ball retention in front of us, minimal movement to help you find a pass or any positive interaction with the forwards, we were constantly forced into doing just that. The ball just kept coming back. So you end up reverting to the basics of "Just get it clear". Watching the Villa defence having to do the same thing is embarrassing.
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I'd make Lambert sit down and watch a rerun of the game and point out all these chances. We were fucking rubbish.
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Mind you for all the stick we give PL, me included, the players need to stand up and take some flack.
The sheer inability to hold onto the ball, pass simply to each other is appalling. What do they do in training?
A couple of times in the second half Weimann and Delph had the chance to make a simple oass forward to start an attack and made a hash of it.
There seems to be no attempt to slow the game down with good ball retention when we are under pressure. We give the ball away and the pressure starts all over again.
The team defended well for the first 65 mins but you just knew Everton would get through eventually and that we couldn't then respond, because we don't have the ability to do so.
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The problem with Lambert's tactics isn't that he's long ball, it's that he's impatient to the extent that long balls become acceptable. If there's space in the midfield like against Liverpool then we'll pass it quickly along the floor through the middle, but if that space isn't there we'll be just as impatient to get it forward quickly, resulting in the old 'lump it and lose it' situation.
What Lambert saw as successful against Liverpool wasn't the fact that we were passing it along the floor, but that we were getting it to Benteke quickly. He doesn't seem to realise that the method of getting the ball there is all important. The players have no calm, no training in how to move when a teammate gets the ball, no clues on when to hold it and when to make the telling pass, and are obviously drilled to get it forward quickly by whatever means necessary. If the opposition give us space in the middle, great. If they don't, like almost every team in Europe since 2005, tough shit.
Beautifully summed up, Monty.
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Watched online and have to say i was not pleased with what i saw (even at 0-1 OR 1-1).
From the off it was clear our rumoured back 3 was in fact 5 with OUR 2 midfielders being outnumbered by their counterparts meaning we just couldn't get the ball.
I didn't want Holt, i'll gladly admit that before asking what was his purpose today?. He did absolutely nothing to my eyes, and i do mean NOTHING. He's just a big lump that does very little to warrant a start. I have an awful feeling we're going to see loads of him as we did Heskey under O'Neill. Not because they offer anything but because of stupid stubbornness from the blokes that brought them.
Going to Everton on the back of two decent results with a game plan of seemingly being to hang on for a dour point at best was truly depressing. They had some BIG players missing and with a bit more positivity could've been there for the taking.
As it was, it was just dreadful negative crap.
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People taking issue with him changing a winning side, it isn't the 80's. Also, was that not exactly what MON got slagged for? He picked a formation to stifle the opposition and for 65 minutes he got it spot on. We used the ball poorly but to me we looked shattered, maybe Wednesday night took it out of us?
I think that's the issue, he picked a formation to stifle their side, rather than to actually play football ourselves. I must admit for a while i thought it might just work, but with no real out ball and absolutely no midfield presence it became obvious the pressure and their massive possession were almost certainly going to pay off for them eventually.
Is that not his job? If he'd played 4 at the back and Lowton at right back, the midfield runners would have had a field day and Baines would have tore Lowts a new one. People saying they had no striker on the pitch but we had three CB's clearly have no perspective of how the modern game is played. How many times have Barca or Spain played without a striker?
Well i would say the remit of his job is a little larger than 'pick a side to stiffle the opposition', for instance i seem to remember the club and Lambert saying at the beginning of his tenure something about 'playing football' the right way.
I agree that we had to be wary of Everton's goal scoring threat, with 34 of their 43 goals this season not coming from their main striker, and said as much in the prematch thread and the start of the match thread. We weren't however playing Bareclona and have played better football against better teams then them this season so i don't agree there was a need for such completely negative tactics. The way we were set up we had no midfield or attacking threat whatsoever and without a massive slice of luck such as we had at Southampton, Everton we're always going to get the result.
I would rather lose playing football and having a go, than playing this negative ****
Why is it that all of our good results are lucky and all of the bad ones are down to Lambert? The bottom line is we are the tenth best team in this league and let's not forget that we have already played Liverpool and Arsenal twice. For a club slashing their wage bill, the manager can't be doing that badly.
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I think hartman is partly right.With a better Gabby instead of Holt, and a better midfielder than Westwood, then we would'nt have lost today.
Bacuna and Bertrand were very good, and the back 3 restricted them to almost nothing until they scored.The lack of quality on the ball was our undoing.
It's partially that, but it's tactical as well. Why start 3 centre halves against a team with no strikers? it immediately says you don't want possession. Lambert has lost any sort of attacking thoughts he ever had, and we are an embarrassing team. As paulie says we're the sort of team that I would want to see relegated if I wasn't a fan.
No it doesn't. Martinez plays three at the back all the time and his sides always look to retain possession. It says you want them going outside you and not playing through you. Baines is a winger but he underlaps rather than overlaps and we forced him outside today.
I'd suggest our performances and the way our centre halves kick the ball away show we don't want possession.
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Mind you for all the stick we give PL, me included, the players need to stand up and take some flack.
The sheer inability to hold onto the ball, pass simply to each other is appalling. What do they do in training?
A couple of times in the second half Weimann and Delph had the chance to make a simple oass forward to start an attack and made a hash of it.
There seems to be no attempt to slow the game down with good ball retention when we are under pressure. We give the ball away and the pressure starts all over again.
The team defended well for the first 65 mins but you just knew Everton would get through eventually and that we couldn't then respond, because we don't have the ability to do so.
But this isn't an anomaly. This is how they are trained to play and set up to play.
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What's disappointing is that today could have been so different and had control over that. We took the lead and had a chance to really put some pressure on Everton or at the very least make them work really hard for a win. It's so poor that we essentially allowed them to engage in a pass and shooting drill.
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If we are to play five at the back you cant play Holt up front. He is shockingly immobile and can only really play as the sole centre forward with two quick players running off him. Not him and Benteke together.
This I agree with. However, I don't know who else I would have played. To me Albrighton is too naive and Tonev isn't ready. Gabby really is massive for us.
KEA for Holt. Push Weimann forward. Weimann does nothing unless you push him forward. He is a goalscorer, and nothing else, but he needs to play off a big man, not wide or behnd a front two
Agree Gabby is a big big miss
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I think hartman is partly right.With a better Gabby instead of Holt, and a better midfielder than Westwood, then we would'nt have lost today.
Bacuna and Bertrand were very good, and the back 3 restricted them to almost nothing until they scored.The lack of quality on the ball was our undoing.
It's partially that, but it's tactical as well. Why start 3 centre halves against a team with no strikers? it immediately says you don't want possession. Lambert has lost any sort of attacking thoughts he ever had, and we are an embarrassing team. As paulie says we're the sort of team that I would want to see relegated if I wasn't a fan.
No it doesn't. Martinez plays three at the back all the time and his sides always look to retain possession. It says you want them going outside you and not playing through you. Baines is a winger but he underlaps rather than overlaps and we forced him outside today.
I'd suggest our performances and the way our centre halves kick the ball away show we don't want possession.
I'd argue it's because they don't have any movement in front of them. Lambert's already identified that as a problem, once he has done that and offered his targets it's not his fault if they don't arrive.
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Mind you for all the stick we give PL, me included, the players need to stand up and take some flack.
The sheer inability to hold onto the ball, pass simply to each other is appalling. What do they do in training?
A couple of times in the second half Weimann and Delph had the chance to make a simple oass forward to start an attack and made a hash of it.
There seems to be no attempt to slow the game down with good ball retention when we are under pressure. We give the ball away and the pressure starts all over again.
The team defended well for the first 65 mins but you just knew Everton would get through eventually and that we couldn't then respond, because we don't have the ability to do so.
But this isn't an anomaly. This is how they are trained to play and set up to play.
Set up to play, yes.
To retain the all so poorly, no
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I do agree with Rudy to a certain extent. Some of the retention and distribution from a number of our side, who are employed as professional footballers, is fucking abysmal. If economics is such an issue at Aston Villa, we may as well start signing semi-pros, because I don't see how they can do much worse.
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If we are to play five at the back you cant play Holt up front. He is shockingly immobile and can only really play as the sole centre forward with two quick players running off him. Not him and Benteke together.
This I agree with. However, I don't know who else I would have played. To me Albrighton is too naive and Tonev isn't ready. Gabby really is massive for us.
KEA for Holt. Push Weimann forward. Weimann does nothing unless you push him forward. He is a goalscorer, and nothing else, but he needs to play off a big man, not wide or behnd a front two
Agree Gabby is a big big miss
I see your point but I think he wanted Weimann to do a job on Barry the same way he did on Gerrard at Anfield. I would have been more inclined to your suggestion though.
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No Match of the Day tonight for me then.
I'll watch it, just to see the geordies having an absolute paddy as that's always entertaining.
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People taking issue with him changing a winning side, it isn't the 80's. Also, was that not exactly what MON got slagged for? He picked a formation to stifle the opposition and for 65 minutes he got it spot on. We used the ball poorly but to me we looked shattered, maybe Wednesday night took it out of us?
I think that's the issue, he picked a formation to stifle their side, rather than to actually play football ourselves. I must admit for a while i thought it might just work, but with no real out ball and absolutely no midfield presence it became obvious the pressure and their massive possession were almost certainly going to pay off for them eventually.
Is that not his job? If he'd played 4 at the back and Lowton at right back, the midfield runners would have had a field day and Baines would have tore Lowts a new one. People saying they had no striker on the pitch but we had three CB's clearly have no perspective of how the modern game is played. How many times have Barca or Spain played without a striker?
Well i would say the remit of his job is a little larger than 'pick a side to stiffle the opposition', for instance i seem to remember the club and Lambert saying at the beginning of his tenure something about 'playing football' the right way.
I agree that we had to be wary of Everton's goal scoring threat, with 34 of their 43 goals this season not coming from their main striker, and said as much in the prematch thread and the start of the match thread. We weren't however playing Bareclona and have played better football against better teams then them this season so i don't agree there was a need for such completely negative tactics. The way we were set up we had no midfield or attacking threat whatsoever and without a massive slice of luck such as we had at Southampton, Everton we're always going to get the result.
I would rather lose playing football and having a go, than playing this negative ****
Why is it that all of our good results are lucky and all of the bad ones are down to Lambert? The bottom line is we are the tenth best team in this league and let's not forget that we have already played Liverpool and Arsenal twice. For a club slashing their wage bill, the manager can't be doing that badly.
Ok so a couple of hyperthetical questions; Lerner sells up and we are bought by the Bahrain royal family/oil Barron sheik who provide us with a 300m war chest. Do you think Lambert could have us winning the league within 2-3years? Then secondly, the same scenario with Everton-do you think Martinez could do it with them?
I know my answers
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An embarrassment of the highest order.
That is anti football
Get that f in scottish tw@t out of my club
Were you saying that on Wednesday evening?
Exactly, some overreactions in here. Lambert is doing fine with what he has. We are 10th, we aren't going down. This summer is important though.
You are a half full man then
Look at the table. We are 5 points off the bottom three and have West Ham up next.
I wouldnt trust PL to spend any money
Its the manner of the performance and tactics that is so appalling
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I'm listening to Lambert now on WM and he is saying we did not deserve to lose as Guzan had nothing to do for 70 mins! I'm stunned
He didn't
Unfortunately the matches tend to last at least 90 minutes, highlighting something of a flaw in Lambert's master plan and logic.
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People taking issue with him changing a winning side, it isn't the 80's. Also, was that not exactly what MON got slagged for? He picked a formation to stifle the opposition and for 65 minutes he got it spot on. We used the ball poorly but to me we looked shattered, maybe Wednesday night took it out of us?
I think that's the issue, he picked a formation to stifle their side, rather than to actually play football ourselves. I must admit for a while i thought it might just work, but with no real out ball and absolutely no midfield presence it became obvious the pressure and their massive possession were almost certainly going to pay off for them eventually.
Is that not his job? If he'd played 4 at the back and Lowton at right back, the midfield runners would have had a field day and Baines would have tore Lowts a new one. People saying they had no striker on the pitch but we had three CB's clearly have no perspective of how the modern game is played. How many times have Barca or Spain played without a striker?
Well i would say the remit of his job is a little larger than 'pick a side to stiffle the opposition', for instance i seem to remember the club and Lambert saying at the beginning of his tenure something about 'playing football' the right way.
I agree that we had to be wary of Everton's goal scoring threat, with 34 of their 43 goals this season not coming from their main striker, and said as much in the prematch thread and the start of the match thread. We weren't however playing Bareclona and have played better football against better teams then them this season so i don't agree there was a need for such completely negative tactics. The way we were set up we had no midfield or attacking threat whatsoever and without a massive slice of luck such as we had at Southampton, Everton we're always going to get the result.
I would rather lose playing football and having a go, than playing this negative ****
Why is it that all of our good results are lucky and all of the bad ones are down to Lambert? The bottom line is we are the tenth best team in this league and let's not forget that we have already played Liverpool and Arsenal twice. For a club slashing their wage bill, the manager can't be doing that badly.
Please point out where i said that? I think you'll find i haven't and even indicated that we'd gained results through playing good football. The Arsenal and Liverpool games you mention being a prime example.
You like using this 'the bottom line is...' sentence don't you, which isn't really the bottom line at all unless it's related to actual physical bottoms and their functions. Being 10th doesn't make us the 10th best team in the league, it just means we have more points than 10 teams below us. At the moment the gap between us and 18th is 5 points, and the way things are those teams below us could easily make that up in the next few games.
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I'm listening to Lambert now on WM and he is saying we did not deserve to lose as Guzan had nothing to do for 70 mins! I'm stunned
He didn't
Unfortunately the matches tend to last at least 90 minutes, highlighting something of a flaw in Lambert's master plan and logic.
Statistically Guzan had little to do for 70 minutes. But playing the tempting fate game isn't usually going to end well.
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From the off it was clear our rumoured back 3 was in fact 5 with OUR 2 midfielders being outnumbered by their counterparts meaning we just couldn't get the ball.
We did exactly the same at West Ham and like Everton today, they didn't have a recognised striker on the pitch.
I didn't want Holt, i'll gladly admit that before asking what was his purpose today?. He did absolutely nothing to my eyes, and i do mean NOTHING. He's just a big lump that does very little to warrant a start. I have an awful feeling we're going to see loads of him as we did Heskey under O'Neill. Not because they offer anything but because of stupid stubbornness from the blokes that brought them.
Going to Everton on the back of two decent results with a game plan of seemingly being to hang on for a dour point at best was truly depressing. They had some BIG players missing and with a bit more positivity could've been there for the taking.
As it was, it was just dreadful negative crap.
Good comparison with Heskey. I thought the Holt deal was to replace Kozak and desperate cover should we lose Benteke to injury. How wrong I was.
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I think hartman is partly right.With a better Gabby instead of Holt, and a better midfielder than Westwood, then we would'nt have lost today.
Bacuna and Bertrand were very good, and the back 3 restricted them to almost nothing until they scored.The lack of quality on the ball was our undoing.
It's partially that, but it's tactical as well. Why start 3 centre halves against a team with no strikers? it immediately says you don't want possession. Lambert has lost any sort of attacking thoughts he ever had, and we are an embarrassing team. As paulie says we're the sort of team that I would want to see relegated if I wasn't a fan.
No it doesn't. Martinez plays three at the back all the time and his sides always look to retain possession. It says you want them going outside you and not playing through you. Baines is a winger but he underlaps rather than overlaps and we forced him outside today.
I'd suggest our performances and the way our centre halves kick the ball away show we don't want possession.
I'd argue it's because they don't have any movement in front of them. Lambert's already identified that as a problem, once he has done that and offered his targets it's not his fault if they don't arrive.
Agree the movement in front of the centre halfs is poor, as it is all over the pitch when we are in possession. The Liverpool games proves we can play well though. Why not play the same way and have Albrighton plays Gabbys role. Not ideal but much better than what we got to see today.
Clarks defending has improved this year but his passing is dreadful, either long or short.
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Why is it every fucking time the ball is played back to Guzan he blasts it upfield ..we have 5 defenders yet none of them are capable of starting an attack with the ball at feet ?
Holt and Benteke the only combination worse was Kozak and Benteke.On what planet is playing 2 big strikers with a midfield comprising for 2 cms and another striker a good plan ? Once again the powder puff nature of our midfield was exposed only Delph can physically hold himself up against strong oponnents.
We had one corner as far as I can tell and guess what another god damn floaty piece of shit.Seriously when will management and players wake up to its non effectiveness ?
Despite being 10 we are very much still in a relegation scrap and with Vlaar a doubt against West Ham I only hope Carroll keeps suspension as he destroyed Swansea today.
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You are a half full man then
Look at the table. We are 5 points off the bottom three and have West Ham up next.
I wouldnt trust PL to spend any money
Its the manner of the performance and tactics that is so appalling
Yeah, we have West Ham at home. we'll beat them.
Games like Fulham away, Palace at home and Sunderland at home are the ones that really piss me off. Today was not one of those games. They were better, but we've played similar and came away with wins before (Southampton).
Obviously I don't want us to play like this every game but we have to do what we can to get points and up until 75 mins it was working.
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People taking issue with him changing a winning side, it isn't the 80's. Also, was that not exactly what MON got slagged for? He picked a formation to stifle the opposition and for 65 minutes he got it spot on. We used the ball poorly but to me we looked shattered, maybe Wednesday night took it out of us?
I think that's the issue, he picked a formation to stifle their side, rather than to actually play football ourselves. I must admit for a while i thought it might just work, but with no real out ball and absolutely no midfield presence it became obvious the pressure and their massive possession were almost certainly going to pay off for them eventually.
Is that not his job? If he'd played 4 at the back and Lowton at right back, the midfield runners would have had a field day and Baines would have tore Lowts a new one. People saying they had no striker on the pitch but we had three CB's clearly have no perspective of how the modern game is played. How many times have Barca or Spain played without a striker?
Well i would say the remit of his job is a little larger than 'pick a side to stiffle the opposition', for instance i seem to remember the club and Lambert saying at the beginning of his tenure something about 'playing football' the right way.
I agree that we had to be wary of Everton's goal scoring threat, with 34 of their 43 goals this season not coming from their main striker, and said as much in the prematch thread and the start of the match thread. We weren't however playing Bareclona and have played better football against better teams then them this season so i don't agree there was a need for such completely negative tactics. The way we were set up we had no midfield or attacking threat whatsoever and without a massive slice of luck such as we had at Southampton, Everton we're always going to get the result.
I would rather lose playing football and having a go, than playing this negative ****
Why is it that all of our good results are lucky and all of the bad ones are down to Lambert? The bottom line is we are the tenth best team in this league and let's not forget that we have already played Liverpool and Arsenal twice. For a club slashing their wage bill, the manager can't be doing that badly.
Ok so a couple of hyperthetical questions; Lerner sells up and we are bought by the Bahrain royal family/oil Barron sheik who provide us with a 300m war chest. Do you think Lambert could have us winning the league within 2-3years? Then secondly, the same scenario with Everton-do you think Martinez could do it with them?
I know my answers
No and no. Everton are miles in front of us at the moment, they have a lot of quality that we don't simply just don't have.
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I'm listening to Lambert now on WM and he is saying we did not deserve to lose as Guzan had nothing to do for 70 mins! I'm stunned
He didn't
Unfortunately the matches tend to last at least 90 minutes, highlighting something of a flaw in Lambert's master plan and logic.
Statistically Guzan had little to do for 70 minutes. But playing the tempting fate game isn't usually going to end well.
So you knew Vlaar would get injured? You should have text Paul.
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The odd nutjob seems happy with that performance, I don't see how Lamberts tactics can be applauded.
5 at the back for a team with no centre forward.
With 5 at the back you think we could play it out no Guzan hoofed it every time giving them possession.
Weiman gave the ball away every time he got it, so he stays on the pitch for 80 minutes.
We got our first corner in the last 10 minutes.
There was no plan, except defend and try and get away with it. When it became obvious that we were not going to get away with it he did nothing.
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I said during the game that this is a team desperately in need of a brain. We give the ball away like a sack of cheap Christmas cards. We make stupid fouls in stupid areas. We can't work out how to pass a football. But I think it goes deeper than that. We are a club desperately in need of a brain. From the owner, to the chief exec, manager and the vast majority of the players, when it comes to the game of football, there's hardly a brain cell between the lot of them.
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You are a half full man then
Look at the table. We are 5 points off the bottom three and have West Ham up next.
I wouldnt trust PL to spend any money
Its the manner of the performance and tactics that is so appalling
Yeah, we have West Ham at home. we'll beat them.
Games like Fulham away, Palace at home and Sunderland at home are the ones that really piss me off. Today was not one of those games. They were better, but we've played similar and came away with wins before (Southampton).
Obviously I don't want us to play like this every game but we have to do what we can to get points and up until 75 mins it was working.
You reckon today was much better than Fulham. We made the latter look like Barca that day.
Going forward today was as bad as Fulham except we actually managed to score.
Glad youre confident for next week. Wish I was
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The odd nutjob seems happy with that performance, I don't see how Lamberts tactics can be applauded.
5 at the back for a team with no centre forward.
With 5 at the back you think we could play it out no Guzan hoofed it every time giving them possession.
Weiman gave the ball away every time he got it, so he stays on the pitch for 80 minutes.
We got our first corner in the last 10 minutes.
There was no plan, except defend and try and get away with it. When it became obvious that we were not going to get away with it he did nothing.
I don't think anyone was happy with the performance at all.
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Awful, really not sure how they manage not to create anything for most of the game, we sat off them too much, and gifted them the ball too often.
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I thought the performance was alright, just not quite good enough to pick up the points. Inconsistency = midtable
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People taking issue with him changing a winning side, it isn't the 80's. Also, was that not exactly what MON got slagged for? He picked a formation to stifle the opposition and for 65 minutes he got it spot on. We used the ball poorly but to me we looked shattered, maybe Wednesday night took it out of us?
I think that's the issue, he picked a formation to stifle their side, rather than to actually play football ourselves. I must admit for a while i thought it might just work, but with no real out ball and absolutely no midfield presence it became obvious the pressure and their massive possession were almost certainly going to pay off for them eventually.
Is that not his job? If he'd played 4 at the back and Lowton at right back, the midfield runners would have had a field day and Baines would have tore Lowts a new one. People saying they had no striker on the pitch but we had three CB's clearly have no perspective of how the modern game is played. How many times have Barca or Spain played without a striker?
Well i would say the remit of his job is a little larger than 'pick a side to stiffle the opposition', for instance i seem to remember the club and Lambert saying at the beginning of his tenure something about 'playing football' the right way.
I agree that we had to be wary of Everton's goal scoring threat, with 34 of their 43 goals this season not coming from their main striker, and said as much in the prematch thread and the start of the match thread. We weren't however playing Bareclona and have played better football against better teams then them this season so i don't agree there was a need for such completely negative tactics. The way we were set up we had no midfield or attacking threat whatsoever and without a massive slice of luck such as we had at Southampton, Everton we're always going to get the result.
I would rather lose playing football and having a go, than playing this negative ****
Why is it that all of our good results are lucky and all of the bad ones are down to Lambert? The bottom line is we are the tenth best team in this league and let's not forget that we have already played Liverpool and Arsenal twice. For a club slashing their wage bill, the manager can't be doing that badly.
Ok so a couple of hyperthetical questions; Lerner sells up and we are bought by the Bahrain royal family/oil Barron sheik who provide us with a 300m war chest. Do you think Lambert could have us winning the league within 2-3years? Then secondly, the same scenario with Everton-do you think Martinez could do it with them?
I know my answers
No and no. Everton are miles in front of us at the moment, they have a lot of quality that we don't simply just don't have.
And a much better manager. His astute signings in the summer, if nothing else. He has comfortably beaten us twice this year and consistently did it with Wigan.
Makes me weep to look at Barry passing it around simply but effectively and also being able to still play the killer pass. We should have got him back in the summer. Maybe we did try, but obviously not hard enough.
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You reckon today was much better than Fulham. We made the latter look like Barca that day.
Going forward today was as bad as Fulham except we actually managed to score.
Glad youre confident for next week. Wish I was
Today was better than Fulham. Fulham are shit and bottom of the league. Everton are a very good side.
I agree that going forward we weren't great today but don't forget Bacuna had a shocker against Fulham, defensively we were better today. It took two moments of genius to break us down, 75 minutes into the game. We collapsed fast against Fulham.
Anyway I'm confident for next week yeah.
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The odd nutjob seems happy with that performance, I don't see how Lamberts tactics can be applauded.
5 at the back for a team with no centre forward.
With 5 at the back you think we could play it out no Guzan hoofed it every time giving them possession.
Weiman gave the ball away every time he got it, so he stays on the pitch for 80 minutes.
We got our first corner in the last 10 minutes.
There was no plan, except defend and try and get away with it. When it became obvious that we were not going to get away with it he did nothing.
I don't think anyone was happy with the performance at all.
There are a few people defending it.
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Just back at the hotel, poor performance, what were the possession stats second half? It seemed like we never had the ball, I will be surprised if we achieved 25%
No ambition.
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I thought the performance was alright, just not quite good enough to pick up the points. Inconsistency = midtable
If it was a one off, no one would be worried, but its not. Its the norm
Think for totally ineptitude
Fulham
Palace
Hull
Today
Sunderland home
Spurs home
West ham
Sheff utd
Spurs home in the cup
West brom away first half
Stoke
Man u
The good performances, let alone good results are few and far between
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The odd nutjob seems happy with that performance, I don't see how Lamberts tactics can be applauded.
5 at the back for a team with no centre forward.
With 5 at the back you think we could play it out no Guzan hoofed it every time giving them possession.
Weiman gave the ball away every time he got it, so he stays on the pitch for 80 minutes.
We got our first corner in the last 10 minutes.
There was no plan, except defend and try and get away with it. When it became obvious that we were not going to get away with it he did nothing.
I don't think anyone was happy with the performance at all.
There are a few people defending it.
Don't worry they're just nutjobs
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Vlaar picking up yet another injury is precisely the reason we should have got another centreback in. It's mind boggling why Lerner and Lambert are taking so many chances with our Premier League status.
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The odd nutjob seems happy with that performance, I don't see how Lamberts tactics can be applauded.
5 at the back for a team with no centre forward.
With 5 at the back you think we could play it out no Guzan hoofed it every time giving them possession.
Weiman gave the ball away every time he got it, so he stays on the pitch for 80 minutes.
We got our first corner in the last 10 minutes.
There was no plan, except defend and try and get away with it. When it became obvious that we were not going to get away with it he did nothing.
I don't think anyone was happy with the performance at all.
There are a few people defending it.
Don't worry they're just nutjobs
Thanks for reminding me ;)
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Vlaar picking up yet another injury is precisely the reason we should have got another centreback in. It's mind boggling why Lerner and Lambert are taking so many chances with our Premier League status.
He was struggling first half against west brom and I was surprised he came out for the second half. Big risk to keep playing him when he is not fully fit. If he needs a rest give it to him now, don't wait until he completely breaks down
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"Look, Paul, you kept us up last season with the same team - and we're a little bit better off this stage. Nah, we'll be ok. Ok, Paul?" "Right, boss. If we lose we pick ourselves up and go again. No worries."
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Vlaar picking up yet another injury is precisely the reason we should have got another centreback in. It's mind boggling why Lerner and Lambert are taking so many chances with our Premier League status.
I wonder what the stats are with and without Vlaar.
I don't remember many points with him out the team this and last season.
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we had 29%.
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Lambet got that massively wrong today. A flat back 5, out numbered in midfield and no outlet ball? Utter garbage.
An a word for the Everton fans. Congratulations on being utter shite too. 74 minutes before they sung their one song. Embarrassment.
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Lambet got that massively wrong today. A flat back 5, out numbered in midfield and no outlet ball? Utter garbage.
An a word for the Everton fans. Congratulations on being utter shite too. 74 minutes before they sung their one song. Embarrassment.
I know what you mean, but I'm less bothered about the ability of their singing and more about the 6 points they've taken off us this season!
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I'm sure everyone is bothered about that. Goes without saying I guess.
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First defeat at Goodison since 2006 but no wins there since 2008. Like White Hart Lane, another ground we always used do well at until the last few years.
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Our record at Villa Park has been pretty shite since then too
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Vlaar picking up yet another injury is precisely the reason we should have got another centreback in. It's mind boggling why Lerner and Lambert are taking so many chances with our Premier League status.
Karma has had a habit of biting us in the ass and all.
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Any news on Vlaar
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As bad as the game was, it makes a refreshing change to see a post-defeat match thread made up of reasoned opinions and debate rather than of endless tirade of X is a c*nt.
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First defeat at Goodison since 2006 but no wins there since 2008.
What's so annoying about today is we probably had the best chance of beating them, they had so many key players out but we decide to play to their strengths and our weaknesses.
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First defeat at Goodison since 2006 but no wins there since 2008.
What's so annoying about today is we probably had the best chance of beating them, they had so many key players out but we decide to play to their strengths and our weaknesses.
So much like the Manchester United game it hurts.
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Any news on Vlaar
Hamstring strain. They don't know if he'll be fit to face Wet Ham.
Well done, Villa. Another quality transfer window.
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I really am starting to detest Lamberts port match interview. Why don't we ever hear, "We were very poor when we had the ball today and this needs to change", or, "It's not good enough giving silly free kicks away in dangerous areas of the pitch", and, " We need to press higher up the pitch and when we win the ball keep composed, heads up and take it to them".
But no, every game he pipes up with, and I quote, "I thought we looked really comfortable". "I am not so sure we deserved to lose the game". "You just keep trying to build it and keep going". "If we keep playing the way we are, we will certainly win more games than not."
I'm sorry but I can't agree with anything he says. No of course I don't want him to come out and slate them, nor do I want him sacked. But we as fans see how bad we are with the ball, just be honest and say we were poor at keeping the ball, we need to improve because we certainly won't win more than not playing like that Paul.
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Don't panic Mr Mainwaring.
A minimum of 4 pts from next 2 games will give us 31 points with 12 games left.
Then Fulham, Stoke, Norwich, Hull at home. Away at Palace, Swansea, Man Yew
Plenty of chances to get enough wins to keep us safe. Have Faith.
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Don't panic Mr Mainwaring.
A minimum of 4 pts from next 2 games will give us 31 points with 12 games left.
Then Fulham, Stoke, Norwich, Hull at home. Away at Palace, Swansea, Man Yew
Plenty of chances to get enough wins to keep us safe. Have Faith.
How many of these will be straightforward, no-fuss victories? I know that's not your point, but I'd really like to hope it's most of them.
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This game shows why we're miles off the top 6 nowadays. In mentality e.g lack of bravery to not even attempt to score a 2nd goal and in terms of quality e.g MIDFIELD. Everton have a proper midfield with strength in depth, that's why they're top 6 and 19 points clear of us after 24 games.
Still we've had a good run recently and in fairness Goodison isn't an away ground you can say you drop points on anymore as they've lost 1 there in 14 months (and that was them down to 10 men for 75 minutes against Sunderland).
I'm expecting 4 points from West Ham and Cardiff. This season has hit the buffers really as it's going to take a very good run just to catch Newcastle and Southampton so really just take 10th this season and hope Lambert has a knock to the head and start signing some forward thinking midfielders in the summer.
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How many games have we actually played well in this season? I think you can count them on one hand. Arsenal and Chelsea away. Liverpool away for 45 mins (a good result and a bit of resolute defending but backs to the wall in the second half). Parts of the WBA game. That's about it?
How can you play well in a game you lost. Everyone bangs on about we played well at Chelsea no we didn't. West Ham played well there we didin't
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We played very well at Stamford Bridge.
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Don't panic Mr Mainwaring.
A minimum of 4 pts from next 2 games will give us 31 points with 12 games left.
Then Fulham, Stoke, Norwich, Hull at home. Away at Palace, Swansea, Man Yew
Plenty of chances to get enough wins to keep us safe. Have Faith.
But some of those teams are improving - enough to overtake us if we play as tactically inept as today. I was lambasted, laughed at and abused for suggesting Lambert is tactically useless because he has FA badges and won the European Cup etc. It means nothing when you have to manage on a shoestring and think on your feet. He get tactically out-thought by opposition managers too regularly for my liking and today was yet another example. We (he) got lucky against Albion.
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Our sequence of results for the last 6 games prior to today was LDW LDW so with today's loss i expect a draw in the next match and a win in the one after that.
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I really am starting to detest Lamberts port match interview. Why don't we ever hear, "We were very poor when we had the ball today and this needs to change", or, "It's not good enough giving silly free kicks away in dangerous areas of the pitch", and, " We need to press higher up the pitch and when we win the ball keep composed, heads up and take it to them".
But no, every game he pipes up with, and I quote, "I thought we looked really comfortable". "I am not so sure we deserved to lose the game". "You just keep trying to build it and keep going". "If we keep playing the way we are, we will certainly win more games than not."
I'm sorry but I can't agree with anything he says. No of course I don't want him to come out and slate them, nor do I want him sacked. But we as fans see how bad we are with the ball, just be honest and say we were poor at keeping the ball, we need to improve because we certainly won't win more than not playing like that Paul.
How many mangers come out and criticise their team? Very, very few. Why would a manager do that? If someone told you you're shit, would you take kindly to it? Probably not.
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How many games have we actually played well in this season? I think you can count them on one hand. Arsenal and Chelsea away. Liverpool away for 45 mins (a good result and a bit of resolute defending but backs to the wall in the second half). Parts of the WBA game. That's about it?
How can you play well in a game you lost.
If you can't play well in a game you lose, that also means you can't play badly in a game you win, right?
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As soon as you go public with criticism it's over. Players will never take kindly to being called out in public. Tell me where it has ended well for any manager that has done that?
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Not read all of the forum but having watched the game Everton appeared to be half a yard sharper (excluding Delph).
Lambert like his incumbent is tactically a defensive manager. 3-5-2 or 4-3-1-2. The game is always set up to be 6/7 defence v 3/4 attack, no width - Charles Hughes would be proud! (younger readers ask for info!)
Certain players (wiemann) in particular are being asked to play 'defensive' positions against the grain to secure a starting spot.
Wouldn't you?
Wiemann is a striker, a goal scorer. Why against Swansea did he play up front, right and left wing back all in 90 minutes and lo! he gets abuse for being off his game... He is a natural finisher. Not a racehorse!
Albrighton - Silla is brought on v West Barca Albion. Why not Albrighton? Because Ridgewell did not pose a threat but Banies did.
Holt..... Even Al Hademi must be asking questions......
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I really am starting to detest Lamberts port match interview. Why don't we ever hear, "We were very poor when we had the ball today and this needs to change", or, "It's not good enough giving silly free kicks away in dangerous areas of the pitch", and, " We need to press higher up the pitch and when we win the ball keep composed, heads up and take it to them".
But no, every game he pipes up with, and I quote, "I thought we looked really comfortable". "I am not so sure we deserved to lose the game". "You just keep trying to build it and keep going". "If we keep playing the way we are, we will certainly win more games than not."
I'm sorry but I can't agree with anything he says. No of course I don't want him to come out and slate them, nor do I want him sacked. But we as fans see how bad we are with the ball, just be honest and say we were poor at keeping the ball, we need to improve because we certainly won't win more than not playing like that Paul.
How many mangers come out and criticise their team? Very, very few. Why would a manager do that? If someone told you you're shit, would you take kindly to it? Probably not.
Read it properly....I did say I don't want him to come out and slate them. But I hear from the very top managers week in week out say if their team plays poorly, gives away cheap possession, sloppy goals etc etc....they tell it how it is. Fergie did, Mourinho does. If you read Lamberts interviews he continues to say how excellent we were.....when we simply weren't.
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I really am starting to detest Lamberts port match interview. Why don't we ever hear, "We were very poor when we had the ball today and this needs to change", or, "It's not good enough giving silly free kicks away in dangerous areas of the pitch", and, " We need to press higher up the pitch and when we win the ball keep composed, heads up and take it to them".
But no, every game he pipes up with, and I quote, "I thought we looked really comfortable". "I am not so sure we deserved to lose the game". "You just keep trying to build it and keep going". "If we keep playing the way we are, we will certainly win more games than not."
I'm sorry but I can't agree with anything he says. No of course I don't want him to come out and slate them, nor do I want him sacked. But we as fans see how bad we are with the ball, just be honest and say we were poor at keeping the ball, we need to improve because we certainly won't win more than not playing like that Paul.
Does my f in head as well!
Only he alone, can believe what he says
I bet the players take the p1ss out of him behind his back. Mumble, mumble
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How many games have we actually played well in this season? I think you can count them on one hand. Arsenal and Chelsea away. Liverpool away for 45 mins (a good result and a bit of resolute defending but backs to the wall in the second half). Parts of the WBA game. That's about it?
How can you play well in a game you lost.
If you can't play well in a game you lose, that also means you can't play badly in a game you win, right?
Right. Not all wins are pretty.
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I really am starting to detest Lamberts port match interview. Why don't we ever hear, "We were very poor when we had the ball today and this needs to change", or, "It's not good enough giving silly free kicks away in dangerous areas of the pitch", and, " We need to press higher up the pitch and when we win the ball keep composed, heads up and take it to them".
But no, every game he pipes up with, and I quote, "I thought we looked really comfortable". "I am not so sure we deserved to lose the game". "You just keep trying to build it and keep going". "If we keep playing the way we are, we will certainly win more games than not."
I'm sorry but I can't agree with anything he says. No of course I don't want him to come out and slate them, nor do I want him sacked. But we as fans see how bad we are with the ball, just be honest and say we were poor at keeping the ball, we need to improve because we certainly won't win more than not playing like that Paul.
How many mangers come out and criticise their team? Very, very few. Why would a manager do that? If someone told you you're shit, would you take kindly to it? Probably not.
Read it properly....I did say I don't want him to come out and slate them. But I hear from the very top managers week in week out say if their team plays poorly, gives away cheap possession, sloppy goals etc etc....they tell it how it is. Fergie did, Mourinho does. If you read Lamberts interviews he continues to say how excellent we were.....when we simply weren't.
Fergie and Mourinho tell it how it is. Are you drinking? Of the two managers on the planet you could have mentioned, and throw in Wenger too, they and their players never, ever do anything wrong and it is always, always everyone and everything else that is at fault.
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The stats on how we do when Ron is on the pitch to when he is not must be very stark.
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As soon as you go public with criticism it's over. Players will never take kindly to being called out in public. Tell me where it has ended well for any manager that has done that?
Maybe just occasionally say, the best team won.
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How many games have we actually played well in this season? I think you can count them on one hand. Arsenal and Chelsea away. Liverpool away for 45 mins (a good result and a bit of resolute defending but backs to the wall in the second half). Parts of the WBA game. That's about it?
How can you play well in a game you lost. Everyone bangs on about we played well a Chelsea no we didn't. West Ham played well there we didin't
Southampton played well when we beat them down there for example.
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As soon as you go public with criticism it's over. Players will never take kindly to being called out in public. Tell me where it has ended well for any manager that has done that?
Maybe just occasionally say, the best team won.
By nature they are all an arrogant bunch. It's probably gets stuck on their tongue if they try and admit that.
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everything about Villa at the moment is uncomfortably mediocre. I'm beginning to think that Randy is never going to fund a player again, and Lambert will have to take his chance on further loans and the odd reinforcement from cash generated through player sales. We were desperate for quality in January in key positions to avoid shit like toady but the decision makers were lulled into a sense of false security by our position in the table and nothing happened. Unless we are relegated, I can't see that strategy changing in the summer. Anything is bearable as long as we stay up.
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I think this years relegation battle is shaping up to be a humdinger. I wouldn't like to call who will drop, though Fulham look in trouble.
Since the halfway point we have taken one point from Arse, Liverpool and Everton (pretty much expected) and 6 from Sunderland and Albion (great).
We really need 4 from the next 2 games to keep a safe distance. The thought of looking at everyone's fixtures for the next 3 months for the fourth year running is pretty unbearable.
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Don't panic Mr Mainwaring.
A minimum of 4 pts from next 2 games will give us 31 points with 12 games left.
Then Fulham, Stoke, Norwich, Hull at home. Away at Palace, Swansea, Man Yew
Plenty of chances to get enough wins to keep us safe. Have Faith.
Oh, is that the old 'easier games' mantra?
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WM said that Randy last attended VP in December 2012!
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Lambert is worse than O'Leary in interviews and his tactics are McLeish like, some would say worse. His substitutions are MON like, Holt on for Lowton took me back to the Harewood on for Shorey days.
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WM said that Randy last attended VP in December 2012!
Why does that matter?
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Don't panic Mr Mainwaring.
A minimum of 4 pts from next 2 games will give us 31 points with 12 games left.
Then Fulham, Stoke, Norwich, Hull at home. Away at Palace, Swansea, Man Yew
Plenty of chances to get enough wins to keep us safe. Have Faith.
Oh, is that the old 'easier games' mantra?
We've taken 6 points from the last two "easy" league games we've played. Actually given their form since, it was an excellent effort to go to Sunderland, win and keep a clean sheet, not that you'd read that on here of course.
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The manager has nobody but himself to blame for he result wih the poor selection and system deployed. We were the antithesis of our last visit to Liverpool.
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WM said that Randy last attended VP in December 2012!
Why does that matter?
It matters big time. It shows he gives a flying F
I want an owner who constantly examines his investment and ownership and see how it can improve. Not one who treats us all with contempt and who thinks he can spend the minimum to keep us in the prem. one year anytime soon he will get his sums wrong
I dont want an owner who when Paul Faulkner calls for a few quid says to his PA ' oh fuck not him again, tell him I'm in the shower and I will call him back on the 1st Sept or 1st Feb'
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If Lerner hasn't been to Villa Park for a game in over 12 months then it's pretty obvious he's lost interest isn't it?
What other explanation is there? The man has a private jet for crying out loud!
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So disappointing after the Liverpool and WBA positivity.
Like so many others have said, it's not the result, it's the performances. We have to get better on the ball.
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71% of possession to EFC, we can't win without that much of the ball.
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If Lerner hasn't been to Villa Park for a game in over 12 months then it's pretty obvious he's lost interest isn't it?
What other explanation is there? The man has a private jet for crying out loud!
You've got to wonder how interested he really is under those circumstances.
Maybe it wouldn't be that way if he'd had a history of not turning up, but I remember when they first arrived, they were here a lot. I even remember him going up to Scunthorpe (or was it Doncaster? Anyway, somewhere northern and unappealing) to watch us in a LC game.
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This is why I was angry we didn't strengthen in the window, midfield is Shit and inept. Must be because the manager doesn't use them he just hoofs it from the back. We're Aston Fucking Villa not Wimbledon Villa II. He promised attacking attractive football and this is not it! Yes we won Wednesday but we played the same style. Your not going to go to places like Everton and get a result playing this way and it's not Fucking good enough. This is just as much Lerner's fault for making him shop at a level where he has to buy this Shit.
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What makes it, in some ways, even worse is that he spends quite a lot of time in the UK. It's not as if he is permanently based in the US.
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Watched it on TV. I thought we were ok first half and just about deserved the lead. We also started the second half ok and the defending was pretty good for the most part though lucky at times and Everton squandered some chances. Once they started pressing more and we began to tire, you sensed Everton would score a couple though and obviously they did.
We do give the ball away far too easily at times and put ourselves under pressure needlessly. I thought the match against Albion on weds may have had a bearing on it as we looked knackered after about an hour. Everton are a good side though too - I can't rember the stat of how many they have lost- I think it was something like 1 in 32. Whatever it is, they're clearly very solid at Goodison . I don't agree with some of the more hysterical posters that we were shite. We just lost to a better side.
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This is why I was angry we didn't strengthen in the window, midfield is Shit and inept. Must be because the manager doesn't use them he just hoofs it from the back. We're Aston Fucking Villa not Wimbledon Villa II. He promised attacking attractive football and this is not it! Yes we won Wednesday but we played the same style. Your not going to go to places like Everton and get a result playing this way and it's not Fucking good enough. This is just as much Lerner's fault for making him shop at a level where he has to buy this Shit.
Although I think Kozak is a decent player, if money is the issue, I'd have thought 7m on a striker was an infinitely less sensible way to spend money than on a midfielder.
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If Lerner hasn't been to Villa Park for a game in over 12 months then it's pretty obvious he's lost interest isn't it?
What other explanation is there? The man has a private jet for crying out loud!
You've got to wonder how interested he really is under those circumstances.
Maybe it wouldn't be that way if he'd had a history of not turning up, but I remember when they first arrived, they were here a lot. I even remember him going up to Scunthorpe (or was it Doncaster? Anyway, somewhere northern and unappealing) to watch us in a LC game.
Precisely, what other explanation can there be? Either he's lost interest and/or he's too ashamed or even frightend to show his face because of what's happened to the squad over the last 4 seasons. At least Doug Ellis turned up to every match and faced the stick from the fans.
The sooner he sells up the better.
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i don't think he even gets that much stick, to be honest.
The selling up thing, though, he can only sell up if someone is prepared to pay him what he wants for the club. And we only want someone to buy off him if they're going to invest in the club.
It's not like "sack the manager" style arguments. You can't force someone to turn up with the money and desire to buy a football club. Hope for it, yes, but nobody - including Randy - can just make that happen. He's not going to sell for peanuts and walk away from his investment having lost even more money, and why should he?
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This is why I was angry we didn't strengthen in the window, midfield is Shit and inept. Must be because the manager doesn't use them he just hoofs it from the back. We're Aston Fucking Villa not Wimbledon Villa II. He promised attacking attractive football and this is not it! Yes we won Wednesday but we played the same style. Your not going to go to places like Everton and get a result playing this way and it's not Fucking good enough. This is just as much Lerner's fault for making him shop at a level where he has to buy this Shit.
Although I think Kozak is a decent player, if money is the issue, I'd have thought 7m on a striker was an infinitely less sensible way to spend money than on a midfielder.
This is true and it's been said on here many times that a striker was not the priority at that time. It has to be a money issue I can see no other explanation, unless it's a wages issue
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He has said before about constraints hasn't he, he also said we couldn't compete with the Albion
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This is why I was angry we didn't strengthen in the window, midfield is Shit and inept. Must be because the manager doesn't use them he just hoofs it from the back. We're Aston Fucking Villa not Wimbledon Villa II. He promised attacking attractive football and this is not it! Yes we won Wednesday but we played the same style. Your not going to go to places like Everton and get a result playing this way and it's not Fucking good enough. This is just as much Lerner's fault for making him shop at a level where he has to buy this Shit.
Although I think Kozak is a decent player, if money is the issue, I'd have thought 7m on a striker was an infinitely less sensible way to spend money than on a midfielder.
This is true and it's been said on here many times that a striker was not the priority at that time. It has to be a money issue I can see no other explanation, unless it's a wages issue
Of course it's a wage issue. That's why our squad is packed out with players from the lower leagues and abroad.
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I got on a plane and we were 1 up. I stepped off the plane the other end and it's 2-1. wtf happened !?
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Lerner is not interested. He never turns up. He would be embarrassed at any game, home or away, where none of the opposition directors know him, but all talk to Mr.Ellis.
Lambert is, also, a clown. What a pity that we have these pair at the forefront of our club.
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I know people are going on about money constraints but look at Poyet he's managed to turn round a team full of misfits bought by his predecessors. Could you imagine us going anywhere and winning 0-3 any time soon. The long and short of it is Lambert is not a very good manager.
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I think selling has been his intention for the last year, he has made the books look a lot healthiier and got rid of almost all the high earners, that and two players in January who will cost the club very little. I don't see from his point of view why he would hang around,there is no chance of any glory and no profit in owning a premiership club these days. He came he tried he failed time to move on.
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i don't think he even gets that much stick, to be honest.
The selling up thing, though, he can only sell up if someone is prepared to pay him what he wants for the club. And we only want someone to buy off him if they're going to invest in the club.
It's not like "sack the manager" style arguments. You can't force someone to turn up with the money and desire to buy a football club. Hope for it, yes, but nobody - including Randy - can just make that happen. He's not going to sell for peanuts and walk away from his investment having lost even more money, and why should he?
Very true. The most worrying part is that the longer he owns us the more chance that we'll be relegated. You can't run a Premier League club on Championship style investment and expect us to stay up long term.
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I know people are going on about money constraints but look at Poyet he's managed to turn round a team full of misfits bought by his predecessors. Could you imagine us going anywhere and winning 0-3 any time soon. The long and short of it is Lambert is not a very good manager.
Poyet also has them playing good football
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Watched it on TV. I thought we were ok first half and just about deserved the lead. We also started the second half ok and the defending was pretty good for the most part though lucky at times and Everton squandered some chances. Once they started pressing more and we began to tire, you sensed Everton would score a couple though and obviously they did.
We do give the ball away far too easily at times and put ourselves under pressure needlessly. I thought the match against Albion on weds may have had a bearing on it as we looked knackered after about an hour. Everton are a good side though too - I can't rember the stat of how many they have lost- I think it was something like 1 in 32. Whatever it is, they're clearly very solid at Goodison . I don't agree with some of the more hysterical posters that we were shite. We just lost to a better side.
Hysterical posters?
You are joking right. This is not a one off, this has been going on for 18 months since PL arrived. Negative football, unable to retain possession, not being able to defend, nothing offensively, poor tactics, poor formation, poor team selection, being loathed by other fans because we are so negative and worst of all anti football
This was shite of the highest order
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I know people are going on about money constraints but look at Poyet he's managed to turn round a team full of misfits bought by his predecessors. Could you imagine us going anywhere and winning 0-3 any time soon. The long and short of it is Lambert is not a very good manager.
Yeah weird that project seems to be working quicker than ours..
Poyet also has them playing good football
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I know people are going on about money constraints but look at Poyet he's managed to turn round a team full of misfits bought by his predecessors. Could you imagine us going anywhere and winning 0-3 any time soon. The long and short of it is Lambert is not a very good manager.
Poyet also has them playing good football
Agree, although this they looked pretty poor against us one month ago.
Reckon they might beat us know though.
Note their American owner has been spending some dosh. We have been loaning an overweight has been from Wigan.
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Watched it on TV. I thought we were ok first half and just about deserved the lead. We also started the second half ok and the defending was pretty good for the most part though lucky at times and Everton squandered some chances. Once they started pressing more and we began to tire, you sensed Everton would score a couple though and obviously they did.
We do give the ball away far too easily at times and put ourselves under pressure needlessly. I thought the match against Albion on weds may have had a bearing on it as we looked knackered after about an hour. Everton are a good side though too - I can't rember the stat of how many they have lost- I think it was something like 1 in 32. Whatever it is, they're clearly very solid at Goodison . I don't agree with some of the more hysterical posters that we were shite. We just lost to a better side.
We were shite. Nothing hysterical about that.
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Game followed the script of 90 per cent of our games. Can't pass. Horrific tactics. Long ball team. Shite manager. Bored shitless now of getting beat and outplayed, we are a non entity at the moment a nd it's a disgrace. No one gets angry anymore there is a culture of acceptance about getting beaten and constant excuses made for terrible football.
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Watched it on TV. I thought we were ok first half and just about deserved the lead. We also started the second half ok and the defending was pretty good for the most part though lucky at times and Everton squandered some chances. Once they started pressing more and we began to tire, you sensed Everton would score a couple though and obviously they did.
We do give the ball away far too easily at times and put ourselves under pressure needlessly. I thought the match against Albion on weds may have had a bearing on it as we looked knackered after about an hour. Everton are a good side though too - I can't rember the stat of how many they have lost- I think it was something like 1 in 32. Whatever it is, they're clearly very solid at Goodison . I don't agree with some of the more hysterical posters that we were shite. We just lost to a better side.
We were shite. Nothing hysterical about that.
We've been shit for most of this season, and last season, and the season before that, and yet fans are classed as hysterical for pointing it out?
At least we're not deluded.
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Shitquake
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I love this club when it's good and I love it more when it's bad don't know why but I do and boy are we bad at the moment.
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I thought I was the only one to like the Trailer Park Boys. :-)
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71% of possession to EFC, we can't win without that much of the ball.
What was the % v Southampton?
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Manager reaction from Goodison Park.
Paul Lambert felt his side were very unlucky not to leave Goodison with a point after a late double earned Everton all three points. 'I thought the lads were really excellent in the first half against a really strong side especially at home. We got the goal deservedly and I thought we could push on from there. They came back strong in the 2nd half but I thought we still had good chances to settle it. There isn't much you can do about the quality of the strike that wins it but I felt we deserved something today for our work rate. But you move on and go again on Monday.'
Can I just say in order to try and lift the gloom I actually completely made this after match reaction up. But I've just seen what he actually said and its more or less the same! Incredible.
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Lerner is not interested. He never turns up. He would be embarrassed at any game, home or away, where none of the opposition directors know him, but all talk to Mr.Ellis.
Lambert is, also, a clown. What a pity that we have these pair at the forefront of our club.
I don't mind Lambert. I think he has done well given what he has been working with. If he was backed properly, I am sure Lambert would have signed two or three quality players by now which is really all that we lack. Stick a proper anchor man, a proper play-maker and a good, strong centre back into that side to play alongside Vlaar (Okore is 20, I think he should have been signed as one to blend into the side over the next few seasons and not as the 'main man' now), and we'd be a good side. We just have a weakness through the coreo f the side.
If Lambert does have a weakness, it's that he doesn't seem to hate losing enough for my liking. With Fergie, Wenger, Pullis, MON and Mourinho you can see they cannot stand losing.With Lambert there's too much of a sense he's already waiting for the next game 'we go again' (ad nauseum). There's too much acceptance of losing at Villa. We used to be draw specialists and think for instance of some of those stupid narrow defeats over the past two seasons (today, Palace at home, Stoke away) if we could only grind out draws in those positions they alone could be worth a higher position in the league at the end of the season.
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How was the away support today ?
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This is what he actually said.
I thought for 71 minutes we were really comfortable in the game, before the first half we never looked really under threat. First goal was really poor from our point of view second goal I think you can hold your hand up and it’s a world class free-kick, and you can’t do nothing about that, but I don’t think we deserved to lose the game.
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The best it's been all season - it usually is at Everton for some reason, even though we never seem to take as many there as I think we should, in comparison to other away grounds.
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How was the away support today ?
Tolerant.
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Had a text from an Everton mate who really complimented our support. Wondered if anything special happened or were we just good as usual ?
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Gabby was a massive miss today, would have been ideal
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Yes we really miss gabby. He really is great away from home. Hope he's back soon.
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Had a text from an Everton mate who really complimented our support. Wondered if anything special happened or were we just good as usual ?
We weren't bad. Didn't hear anything off them until they scored and then nothing until they scored their winner.
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Our support is excellent. They pay a lot of money to watch, largely, turgid rubbish. Our billionaire owner can't even be bothered to turn up and watch his team. He can't be getting much pleasure from us. We're nowhere near being a success. There's no point in him owning us.
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71% of possession to EFC, we can't win without that much of the ball.
We were winning upto 74th minute and lost the game to an 85th minute unbelievable free kick. Funny he the possession stat gets used without any context of how the match actually played out.
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Another waste of my hard earned cash !!!!
I don't mind losing if we have a go and I can walk out the ground thinking we played well and it just wasn't our day. But that performance was shit !! Everton are a good side but we just lay down. We played like a non league side playing a top four side in an FA cup game, its embarrassing !!!
We are ASTON VILLA !!!!!
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So, a gruelling midweek game was a contributing factor to today, according to the manager.
This must explain why we decided were not going to attempt to play any of the game in the opposition half, especially in the second half.
It's a good job he threw the FA cup because with the extra games of football we would be expected to play, as a football team, we would be totally bolloxed.
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I know people are going on about money constraints but look at Poyet he's managed to turn round a team full of misfits bought by his predecessors. Could you imagine us going anywhere and winning 0-3 any time soon. The long and short of it is Lambert is not a very good manager.
Poyet also has them playing good football
Agree, although this they looked pretty poor against us one month ago.
Reckon they might beat us know though.
Note their American owner has been spending some dosh. We have been loaning an overweight has been from Wigan.
Don't be silly, they are below us so are therefore shitter than us, regardless of performances apparently.....
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71% of possession to EFC, we can't win without that much of the ball.
We were winning upto 74th minute and lost the game to an 85th minute unbelievable free kick. Funny he the possession stat gets used without any context of how the match actually played out.
The possession stats are entirely relevant, eventually Everton broke us down because they had so much possession. If you replace Villa with West Ham today would you say they played well?
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We were really really shit. Playing like this is always going to result in us losing games.
Clueless management I'm afraid.
Rubbish today. Totally rubbish.
Just utterly heart breakingly shit!
Shite!
Yes and somehow we only lost because of a very good strike in the 85th minute.
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We were level with the edge of the penalty area at the Park End. I said that we should see plenty of action in the second half but did we fuck?!
Paint it how you like but we were poor and so were they. The highlight of the day was when my son beat me 2-0 at darts in the pub after the game.
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I think there needs to be a separation here. I do not think we will be relegated, so I'm not too concerned about that and I don't think many people on here are either. What I am concerned about is the long term prospects under the current manager. We have played many games this season where we've had 40% possession or much less, so two questions does anyone think long term we can be a successful team with that sort of figure? and more importantly does anyone actually enjoy watching us play with this style?
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This season I have enjoyed home V West Brom and parts of the home games against Cardiff and Man City. That's it really.
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71% of possession to EFC, we can't win without that much of the ball.
We were winning upto 74th minute and lost the game to an 85th minute unbelievable free kick. Funny he the possession stat gets used without any context of how the match actually played out.
I'm guessing that the implication is that with more possession we might not have given two goals away. That it is energy sapping chasing the ball so you are more likely to give away late goals. That your concentration gives out defending all match, so you'll probably give late goals away. That if you have more possession it's possible we might have scored more than one goal. I think trying to win a match with 29% possession is a bit of a lost cause, and suggesting otherwise is not really realistic. Look at the shots which resulted from that possession. We were just lucky to hold out as long as we did.
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I know people are going on about money constraints but look at Poyet he's managed to turn round a team full of misfits bought by his predecessors. Could you imagine us going anywhere and winning 0-3 any time soon. The long and short of it is Lambert is not a very good manager.
Poyet also has them playing good football
Agree, although this they looked pretty poor against us one month ago.
Reckon they might beat us know though.
Note their American owner has been spending some dosh. We have been loaning an overweight has been from Wigan.
Don't be silly, they are below us so are therefore shitter than us, regardless of performances apparently.....
Poyet didn't take over until October. They're currently 5th in the form table in a cup final having beaten Man U in the semi final and still in the FA cup
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So maybe it was an excellent result to go there and win. All I remember from that post match thread on NYD was how shite we were, how shite Sunderland were and how shite generally everything is.
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Oh and if tiredness is a factor, keeping possession would probably help.
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I really am starting to detest Lamberts port match interview. Why don't we ever hear, "We were very poor when we had the ball today and this needs to change", or, "It's not good enough giving silly free kicks away in dangerous areas of the pitch", and, " We need to press higher up the pitch and when we win the ball keep composed, heads up and take it to them".
But no, every game he pipes up with, and I quote, "I thought we looked really comfortable". "I am not so sure we deserved to lose the game". "You just keep trying to build it and keep going". "If we keep playing the way we are, we will certainly win more games than not."
I'm sorry but I can't agree with anything he says. No of course I don't want him to come out and slate them, nor do I want him sacked. But we as fans see how bad we are with the ball, just be honest and say we were poor at keeping the ball, we need to improve because we certainly won't win more than not playing like that Paul.
How many mangers come out and criticise their team? Very, very few. Why would a manager do that? If someone told you you're shit, would you take kindly to it? Probably not.
Read it properly....I did say I don't want him to come out and slate them. But I hear from the very top managers week in week out say if their team plays poorly, gives away cheap possession, sloppy goals etc etc....they tell it how it is. Fergie did, Mourinho does. If you read Lamberts interviews he continues to say how excellent we were.....when we simply weren't.
Fergie and Mourinho tell it how it is. Are you drinking? Of the two managers on the planet you could have mentioned, and throw in Wenger too, they and their players never, ever do anything wrong and it is always, always everyone and everything else that is at fault.
That's my opinion.
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Will we ever switch on to quick free kicks? It is literally school boy defending.
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I know people are going on about money constraints but look at Poyet he's managed to turn round a team full of misfits bought by his predecessors. Could you imagine us going anywhere and winning 0-3 any time soon. The long and short of it is Lambert is not a very good manager.
Poyet also has them playing good football
Agree, although this they looked pretty poor against us one month ago.
Reckon they might beat us know though.
Note their American owner has been spending some dosh. We have been loaning an overweight has been from Wigan.
Don't be silly, they are below us so are therefore shitter than us, regardless of performances apparently.....
Poyet didn't take over until October. They're currently 5th in the form table in a cup final having beaten Man U in the semi final and still in the FA cup
It was a joke. If you read the Sunderland match thread you'll see why said that.
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WANK.
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It was as though lambert thought he had accrued enough goodwill to play like that again after two positive performances. Embarrasing- everton were arguably there for the taking, but we got what we deserved- nothing.
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We did looked tired in the last 20 mins or so. May be that was due to Everton having had an extra 24 hours rest as they payed on Tuesday.
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Oh and if tiredness is a factor, keeping possession would probably help.
Exactly ..we simply have no way of controlling games.We can pressure teams and play on the counter thats it.Every ball out from Guzan is long and just invites more pressure today we never at end point held onto the ball for any period of time
In fairness should be said possession isnt everything as witnessed by Swansea who have the ball more than their opponents but do sod all with it but overall IMO being able to hold onto will win you more games than not.
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This season I have enjoyed home V West Brom and parts of the home games against Cardiff and Man City. That's it really.
Don't waste your money. Just look at the table. We are great.
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We did looked tired in the last 20 mins or so. May be that was due to Everton having had an extra 24 hours rest as they payed on Tuesday.
Or maybe it was because we spent the entire game running after Everton players? We are going to struggle badly to progress if we don't retain possession.
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Just seen the goals. When is Clark going to learn to stop giving stupid fouls away? He was the same on Wednesday night - needlessly going into the back of strikers. First goal was poor as well - more to do with Vlaar losing his man that time though.
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71% of possession to EFC, we can't win without that much of the ball.
We were winning upto 74th minute and lost the game to an 85th minute unbelievable free kick. Funny he the possession stat gets used without any context of how the match actually played out.
We had one shot on goal so unlikely at any to get more than one goal.
we were being battered almost all of the second half because we were chasing the team with the ball. It was inevitable that the pressure would at some time break us. It did with a decent move and then a defender gives away the free kick in a shooting position.
So I think the possession context is there for all to see. We lost.
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Stats from champions league show that teams with greater possession always clock up more KMs running total. So the argument that having less possession makes you run around more and tired is bunkum.
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The midfield is the problem and until it's sorted we'll hover around until we're relegated simple as. We have Delph and erm..... The rest are lets face it shit. Westwood what the f**k does he bring to the table? Nowt that's what and as for the others Sylla, KEA they'd struggle to get into a championship side. It's embarrassing to watch and it's pissing me off!!!
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So I think the possession context is there for all to see. We lost.
We lost because a free kick that 9 times out of 10 would have not resulted in a goal ended up in the back of the net. Nothing to do with possession.
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So I think the possession context is there for all to see. We lost.
We lost because a free kick that 9 times out of 10 would have not resulted in a goal ended up in the back of the net. Nothing to do with possession.
I know what you are saying olaft but only having 1 real shot on goal didn't help did it?
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Stats from champions league show that teams with greater possession always clock up more KMs running total. So the argument that having less possession makes you run around more and tired is bunkum.
Ok fair enough, but do those sides tend to win or lose more often?
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Stats from champions league show that teams with greater possession always clock up more KMs running total. So the argument that having less possession makes you run around more and tired is bunkum.
You have obviously not played the game, because it a lot more tiring chasing the ball than controlling it.
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Like I said earlier, do people enjoy watching Villa desperately trying to hang on, hoofing the ball away and repelling wave after wave of attack? I don't I'd like to see us attack and play entertaining football. Everton should have comparative standing to us, but they are a long way ahead of us.
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Only just back, thanks to some pricks getting the train delayed. I'm sorry, but that today was fucking shit. Does
Lambert seriously think we are going to get results by allowing the home team gave over 70% possession? Yes, it worked at Southampton but that was a one off. We aren't good enough to let teams come at us for most of the game and not concede - we are asking for trouble and today we got exactly what we deserved, which us nowt. No attacking intention whatsoever in the second half...none at all.
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Like I said earlier, do people enjoy watching Villa desperately trying to hang on, hoofing the ball away and repelling wave after wave of attack? I don't I'd like to see us attack and play entertaining football. Everton should have comparative standing to us, but they are a long way ahead of us.
I think there are times when there is no choice but to play that way because the pressure some of the top teams can inflict. At Old Trafford you would expect periods of the game where you are under the kosh. (Everton without a centre forward should not have caused a 5 at the back formation and 2 lumps up front). But to set up to play that way is asking for trouble.
He has got away with it (Southampton) and at various other times.
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Stats from champions league show that teams with greater possession always clock up more KMs running total. So the argument that having less possession makes you run around more and tired is bunkum.
Ok fair enough, but do those sides tend to win or lose more often?
Yes ok (and I am sniggering now) same stats do show that teams with more possession winning the game.
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Stats from champions league show that teams with greater possession always clock up more KMs running total. So the argument that having less possession makes you run around more and tired is bunkum.
You have obviously not played the game, because it a lot more tiring chasing the ball than controlling it.
They had greater possession because we allowed them and because we were not chasing the ball.
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Stats from champions league show that teams with greater possession always clock up more KMs running total. So the argument that having less possession makes you run around more and tired is bunkum.
You have obviously not played the game, because it a lot more tiring chasing the ball than controlling it.
They had greater possession because we allowed them and because we were not chasing the ball.
One reason they had so much possession was because we kept giving the ball away, something we do pretty much every match without fail.
The failing to chase it down is another of our problems, but if you keep losing possession cheaply, you're up against it - you can't spend 90 minutes chasing the ball.
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Stats from champions league show that teams with greater possession always clock up more KMs running total. So the argument that having less possession makes you run around more and tired is bunkum.
You have obviously not played the game, because it a lot more tiring chasing the ball than controlling it.
They had greater possession because we allowed them and because we were not chasing the ball.
What I saw was Everton moving the ball from player to player and each time a Villa player moving towards the player with the ball, sometimes Villa players had to run to fill space that Everton might have used, I dunno what they were chasing then.
Any way it worked really well. We lost.
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Stats from champions league show that teams with greater possession always clock up more KMs running total. So the argument that having less possession makes you run around more and tired is bunkum.
You have obviously not played the game, because it a lot more tiring chasing the ball than controlling it.
They had greater possession because we allowed them and because we were not chasing the ball.
One reason they had so much possession was because we kept giving the ball away, something we do pretty much every match without fail.
The failing to chase it down is another of our problems, but if you keep losing possession cheaply, you're up against it - you can't spend 90 minutes chasing the ball.
I never seen a Villa team give the ball away as much as this one. Even from something as simple as a throw in we lose possession more than I've ever seen another team do. It's training ground stuff. If we can't get the basic stuff right what chance have we got?
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What I don't get is it has deteriorated from last year.
Don't get me wrong, I watched my first match in about 1975, so I have seen lots of shit Villa sides, but over that time the main overriding problem has been players not moving off the ball. This side isn't the worst overall, but in terms of movement, it is truly dreadful.
That scares me, when the problems are so fundamental.
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Not read all of the forum but having watched the game Everton appeared to be half a yard sharper (excluding Delph).
Lambert like his incumbent is tactically a defensive manager. 3-5-2 or 4-3-1-2. The game is always set up to be 6/7 defence v 3/4 attack, no width - Charles Hughes would be proud! (younger readers ask for info!)
Certain players (wiemann) in particular are being asked to play 'defensive' positions against the grain to secure a starting spot.
Wouldn't you?
Wiemann is a striker, a goal scorer. Why against Swansea did he play up front, right and left wing back all in 90 minutes and lo! he gets abuse for being off his game... He is a natural finisher. Not a racehorse!
Albrighton - Silla is brought on v West Barca Albion. Why not Albrighton? Because Ridgewell did not pose a threat but Banies did.
Holt..... Even Al Hademi must be asking questions......
FYI this post is f'ing ridiculous
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What I don't get is it has deteriorated from last year.
Don't get me wrong, I watched my first match in about 1975, so I have seen lots of shit Villa sides, but over that time the main overriding problem has been players not moving off the ball. This side isn't the worst overall, but in terms of movement, it is truly dreadful.
That scares me, when the problems are so fundamental.
Yep and that's my concern, it's not a short term thing in that I think we'll be ok this year. But where are we going? there's no sense of progression as regards ball retention or movement, if anything there's a regression. In the long term the way we are playing will end up in losing the majority of games.
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Watched it on TV. I thought we were ok first half and just about deserved the lead. We also started the second half ok and the defending was pretty good for the most part though lucky at times and Everton squandered some chances. Once they started pressing more and we began to tire, you sensed Everton would score a couple though and obviously they did.
We do give the ball away far too easily at times and put ourselves under pressure needlessly. I thought the match against Albion on weds may have had a bearing on it as we looked knackered after about an hour. Everton are a good side though too - I can't rember the stat of how many they have lost- I think it was something like 1 in 32. Whatever it is, they're clearly very solid at Goodison . I don't agree with some of the more hysterical posters that we were shite. We just lost to a better side.
we're not shite, but we are mediocre, as befits our league position.
We were shite. Nothing hysterical about that.
We've been shit for most of this season, and last season, and the season before that, and yet fans are classed as hysterical for pointing it out?
At least we're not deluded.
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We did looked tired in the last 20 mins or so. May be that was due to Everton having had an extra 24 hours rest as they payed on Tuesday.
Havw to say that is a lame excuse, we hadnt played for 11 days and they had played the shite that is Stevenage
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Like I said earlier, do people enjoy watching Villa desperately trying to hang on, hoofing the ball away and repelling wave after wave of attack? I don't I'd like to see us attack and play entertaining football. Everton should have comparative standing to us, but they are a long way ahead of us.
I fucking hate it and I have been digging out a lot of old villa games from my youth, including some supposedly poor villa sides, and we were NEVER this bad. Even go look up some of those games on youtube, even the 2-0 win against Chelsea in 2007 which was also a classic smash and grab, and we just look so much better than we do now. Yeah we were clinging on a bit but we made really good use of the ball when we had and our defence/spine looked strong, composed and determined in a way that ours doesn't today.
Our defence is one of our weakest elements (I'll come to it) yet we repeatedly play a style that invites pressure on it. That is the most bizarre thing about the Lambert era. If he wants to play that way he should have sorted out a better defence. Otherwise, in my view, you counter a weak defence by both protecting it and making good use of the ball ahead of it. Which brings me to my second point.
With MON we always had an incredible midfield. Petrov, Barry, Milner, Downing and yes NRC. They were players who, between them, were strong, physical,decent with the ball and dangerous going forward. Today you could drive a lorry through our midfield and we are so poor on the ball there that our goalkeeper/(manager?) think it best to bypass them and go route one to the forwards. Delph is a great player in the making, Westwood may well be eventually. KEA, in my view, isn't going to make it at this level while Bacuna is still trying to work out his best position.
Long story short, why didn't we sign a quality midfielder to go in and improve us. I genuinely think we would be such a better side with an experienced midfielder in the team.
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Long story short, why didn't we sign a quality midfielder to go in and improve us. I genuinely think we would be such a better side with an experienced midfielder in the team.
Amen to that.
Even more annoying when you look at how much money we have saved the past couple of years. I expected a midfielder the first week of January, it is maddening we decided "nah, dont need one" when our midfield crisis is obvious and has been for a long time.
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Stats from champions league show that teams with greater possession always clock up more KMs running total. So the argument that having less possession makes you run around more and tired is bunkum.
You have obviously not played the game, because it a lot more tiring chasing the ball than controlling it.
Yes, how far you run is only one factor. If you're turning, sprinting etc you will get tired more often than if you're jogging steadily. I can walk all day up mountains but I can't run all day long.
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I thought it was the sort of performance we often saw from mid table opposition at VP when we were a top 6 side. Everton have a really good home record but we were organised and hard working. We scored a good goal and I thought we'd be good for a point until that free kick. It's not much fun to watch but it is what so many teams try to do that I am surprised it is causing such a fuss.
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Like I said earlier, do people enjoy watching Villa desperately trying to hang on, hoofing the ball away and repelling wave after wave of attack? I don't I'd like to see us attack and play entertaining football. Everton should have comparative standing to us, but they are a long way ahead of us.
I fucking hate it and I have been digging out a lot of old villa games from my youth, including some supposedly poor villa sides, and we were NEVER this bad. Even go look up some of those games on youtube, even the 2-0 win against Chelsea in 2007 which was also a classic smash and grab, and we just look so much better than we do now. Yeah we were clinging on a bit but we made really good use of the ball when we had and our defence/spine looked strong, composed and determined in a way that ours doesn't today.
Our defence is one of our weakest elements (I'll come to it) yet we repeatedly play a style that invites pressure on it. That is the most bizarre thing about the Lambert era. If he wants to play that way he should have sorted out a better defence. Otherwise, in my view, you counter a weak defence by both protecting it and making good use of the ball ahead of it. Which brings me to my second point.
With MON we always had an incredible midfield. Petrov, Barry, Milner, Downing and yes NRC. They were players who, between them, were strong, physical,decent with the ball and dangerous going forward. Today you could drive a lorry through our midfield and we are so poor on the ball there that our goalkeeper/(manager?) think it best to bypass them and go route one to the forwards. Delph is a great player in the making, Westwood may well be eventually. KEA, in my view, isn't going to make it at this level while Bacuna is still trying to work out his best position.
Long story short, why didn't we sign a quality midfielder to go in and improve us. I genuinely think we would be such a better side with an experienced midfielder in the team.
Because Randy is done with us and is only bothered about getting out with the most amount of cash he can. It looks like we are a safe bet to stay up so why waste money on players?
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I don't think were a safe bet, were not that clear of relegation, couple of defeats were right back in it
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I don't think were a safe bet, were not that clear of relegation, couple of defeats were right back in it
We're right in it , make no mistake the next 2 games are massive.
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I thought it was the sort of performance we often saw from mid table opposition at VP when we were a top 6 side. Everton have a really good home record but we were organised and hard working. We scored a good goal and I thought we'd be good for a point until that free kick. It's not much fun to watch but it is what so many teams try to do that I am surprised it is causing such a fuss.
I take your point.
Given some of the away games we have, we are going to have to win the home games against the likes of Wet Spam. My concern is our inability to take the initiative and tactically to overturn resolutely defending oppo.
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Like I said earlier, do people enjoy watching Villa desperately trying to hang on, hoofing the ball away and repelling wave after wave of attack? I don't I'd like to see us attack and play entertaining football. Everton should have comparative standing to us, but they are a long way ahead of us.
I fucking hate it and I have been digging out a lot of old villa games from my youth, including some supposedly poor villa sides, and we were NEVER this bad. Even go look up some of those games on youtube, even the 2-0 win against Chelsea in 2007 which was also a classic smash and grab, and we just look so much better than we do now. Yeah we were clinging on a bit but we made really good use of the ball when we had and our defence/spine looked strong, composed and determined in a way that ours doesn't today.
Our defence is one of our weakest elements (I'll come to it) yet we repeatedly play a style that invites pressure on it. That is the most bizarre thing about the Lambert era. If he wants to play that way he should have sorted out a better defence. Otherwise, in my view, you counter a weak defence by both protecting it and making good use of the ball ahead of it. Which brings me to my second point.
With MON we always had an incredible midfield. Petrov, Barry, Milner, Downing and yes NRC. They were players who, between them, were strong, physical,decent with the ball and dangerous going forward. Today you could drive a lorry through our midfield and we are so poor on the ball there that our goalkeeper/(manager?) think it best to bypass them and go route one to the forwards. Delph is a great player in the making, Westwood may well be eventually. KEA, in my view, isn't going to make it at this level while Bacuna is still trying to work out his best position.
Long story short, why didn't we sign a quality midfielder to go in and improve us. I genuinely think we would be such a better side with an experienced midfielder in the team.
Not so sure about driving a lorry through our midfield......more like a tuk-tuk
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If Lerner wants to sell surely he will find it easier to do, and at the same time get a better price, if the club are doing well?
Like the rest of you I have no insight into his intentions but the idea that if he did it would equate with running us down makes little sense.
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I thought it was the sort of performance we often saw from mid table opposition at VP when we were a top 6 side. Everton have a really good home record but we were organised and hard working. We scored a good goal and I thought we'd be good for a point until that free kick. It's not much fun to watch but it is what so many teams try to do that I am surprised it is causing such a fuss.
I take your point.
Given some of the away games we have, we are going to have to win the home games against the likes of Wet Spam. My concern is our inability to take the initiative and tactically to overturn resolutely defending oppo.
Yes, that is the big problem for us. We need Gabby back pronto, if he stays fit our front three should have enough to see us through those games.
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I thought it was the sort of performance we often saw from mid table opposition at VP when we were a top 6 side. Everton have a really good home record but we were organised and hard working. We scored a good goal and I thought we'd be good for a point until that free kick. It's not much fun to watch but it is what so many teams try to do that I am surprised it is causing such a fuss.
I take your point.
Given some of the away games we have, we are going to have to win the home games against the likes of Wet Spam. My concern is our inability to take the initiative and tactically to overturn resolutely defending oppo.
Yes, that is the big problem for us. We need Gabby back pronto, if he stays fit our front three should have enough to see us through those games.
The other bit of it is that if we want to play such an overtly-defensive approach away from home, the ball retention and midfield effectiveness has to be a whole better ... Obviously.
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So Vlaar goes off, we suddenly start to look shaky and then deservedly concede another, well, who could have predicted that?
As for possession stats, we were no threat to them whatsoever for 3/4 of the game, how could we be?
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Does anyone enjoy watching how we play football? If we aren't competing to win anything and we aren't entertaining, what is the point?
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I thought it was the sort of performance we often saw from mid table opposition at VP when we were a top 6 side. Everton have a really good home record but we were organised and hard working. We scored a good goal and I thought we'd be good for a point until that free kick. It's not much fun to watch but it is what so many teams try to do that I am surprised it is causing such a fuss.
I take your point.
Given some of the away games we have, we are going to have to win the home games against the likes of Wet Spam. My concern is our inability to take the initiative and tactically to overturn resolutely defending oppo.
Yes, that is the big problem for us. We need Gabby back pronto, if he stays fit our front three should have enough to see us through those games.
I am responding to this one, but agree with all 3 of your above posts. Talking sense Chris.
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I don't think were a safe bet, were not that clear of relegation, couple of defeats were right back in it
Correct, since when has a 5 point gap been so big it's uncatchable
. Stoke went from relegation zone to 'midtable' in 90 minutes yesterday
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Does anyone enjoy watching how we play football? If we aren't competing to win anything and we aren't entertaining, what is the point?
This. No one can enjoy 90 minutes plus of backs to the wall football. It's torture.
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I thought it was the sort of performance we often saw from mid table opposition at VP when we were a top 6 side. Everton have a really good home record but we were organised and hard working. We scored a good goal and I thought we'd be good for a point until that free kick. It's not much fun to watch but it is what so many teams try to do that I am surprised it is causing such a fuss.
Got to respectfully disagree Chris. Up at Anfield two weeks ago we closed down and harried their midfield, forcing them into mistakes. Gerrard commented on it himself. We did it once yesterday, which led to our goal. The rest of the game panned out with ten men behind the ball defending our lead. We didn't go to Liverpool with tactics like that, why should yesterday have been any different?
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I don't think were a safe bet, were not that clear of relegation, couple of defeats were right back in it
Correct, since when has a 5 point gap been so big it's uncatchable
. Stoke went from relegation zone to 'midtable' in 90 minutes yesterday
Two things.
If Stoke are mid table that we are much more firmer mid table.
If we lose a couple of games does that mean that all 10 teams below us will win a couple of games at the same time to send us plunging towards the relegation zone?
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When Alex McLeish set up his team to do exactly this everyone was up in arms were they not? Not here but at Birmingham! They finished ninth that season.
Their fans hated watching Foster,Johnson,Dann etc hoofing it in the direction of Zigic for 90mins and said so.
We are doing exactly that. Paul Lambert doesn't have the intelligence to understand its awful to watch.
You may not like him but can you imagine Harry Redknapp playing this way?.
I didn't think so.
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When Alex McLeish set up his team to do exactly this everyone was up in arms were they not? Not here but at Birmingham! They finished ninth that season.
Their fans hated watching Foster,Johnson,Dann etc hoofing it in the direction of Zigic for 90mins and said so.
We are doing exactly that. Paul Lambert doesn't have the intelligence to understand its awful to watch.
You may not like him but can you imagine Harry Redknapp playing this way?.
I didn't think so.
But we don't do it every game, that's the point. We were superb against Liverpool in the first half. They couldn't have complained if they'd gone in 3-0 down at half time. That's why yesterday was so bloody frustrating.
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When Alex McLeish set up his team to do exactly this everyone was up in arms were they not? Not here but at Birmingham! They finished ninth that season.
Their fans hated watching Foster,Johnson,Dann etc hoofing it in the direction of Zigic for 90mins and said so.
We are doing exactly that. Paul Lambert doesn't have the intelligence to understand its awful to watch.
You may not like him but can you imagine Harry Redknapp playing this way?.
I didn't think so.
But we don't do it every game, that's the point. We were superb against Liverpool in the first half. They couldn't have complained if they'd gone in 3-0 down at half time. That's why yesterday was so bloody frustrating.
I agree, but looking at performances over the last 3 months or so I'd say the Liverpool game is a bit of a blip.
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I thought it was the sort of performance we often saw from mid table opposition at VP when we were a top 6 side. Everton have a really good home record but we were organised and hard working. We scored a good goal and I thought we'd be good for a point until that free kick. It's not much fun to watch but it is what so many teams try to do that I am surprised it is causing such a fuss.
Got to respectfully disagree Chris. Up at Anfield two weeks ago we closed down and harried their midfield, forcing them into mistakes. Gerrard commented on it himself. We did it once yesterday, which led to our goal. The rest of the game panned out with ten men behind the ball defending our lead. We didn't go to Liverpool with tactics like that, why should yesterday have been any different?
I think the efforts of the mid week derby and the absence of Gabby went a long way to dictating how we set up yesterday. I have no idea if playing differently would have yielded a different outcome but I do know that it is a tactic used by a lot of teams.
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I thought it was the sort of performance we often saw from mid table opposition at VP when we were a top 6 side. Everton have a really good home record but we were organised and hard working. We scored a good goal and I thought we'd be good for a point until that free kick. It's not much fun to watch but it is what so many teams try to do that I am surprised it is causing such a fuss.
Got to respectfully disagree Chris. Up at Anfield two weeks ago we closed down and harried their midfield, forcing them into mistakes. Gerrard commented on it himself. We did it once yesterday, which led to our goal. The rest of the game panned out with ten men behind the ball defending our lead. We didn't go to Liverpool with tactics like that, why should yesterday have been any different?
I think Lambert plays a different game against the very best teams away from home. Against top teams he thinks we are likely to get beaten so play higher up and press them as we did against Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool. Sitting back with their quality will make the inevitable come to be for sure. However against other teams he thinks we can sneak a result by soaking up pressure and hitting them on the break. Both tactics have served us well away from home so far this season however IMO he should play the same way, as against Liverpool, in every away game.
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I thought it was the sort of performance we often saw from mid table opposition at VP when we were a top 6 side. Everton have a really good home record but we were organised and hard working. We scored a good goal and I thought we'd be good for a point until that free kick. It's not much fun to watch but it is what so many teams try to do that I am surprised it is causing such a fuss.
Take issue with your last sentence. And it isnt just against the top 6 either
Good for a point? Hanging on more like and deservedly getting nothing
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I thought it was the sort of performance we often saw from mid table opposition at VP when we were a top 6 side. Everton have a really good home record but we were organised and hard working. We scored a good goal and I thought we'd be good for a point until that free kick. It's not much fun to watch but it is what so many teams try to do that I am surprised it is causing such a fuss.
Got to respectfully disagree Chris. Up at Anfield two weeks ago we closed down and harried their midfield, forcing them into mistakes. Gerrard commented on it himself. We did it once yesterday, which led to our goal. The rest of the game panned out with ten men behind the ball defending our lead. We didn't go to Liverpool with tactics like that, why should yesterday have been any different?
I think the efforts of the mid week derby and the absence of Gabby went a long way to dictating how we set up yesterday. I have no idea if playing differently would have yielded a different outcome but I do know that it is a tactic used by a lot of teams.
Gabby was a big miss as he always is. Playing Holt wasn't the answer though, that was obvious ten minutes into the game. As for the midweek excesses, Everton were in a local derby as well. I wasn't expecting another four goals, just our midfield to carry on from where they left off in the last away game. Instead we just sat off them and let them pass their way into the penalty area, it was so frustrating to watch.
One thing Liverpool did against them in the week was play Sterling in front of Jon Flanagan which nullified the threat of Baines. It's a shame Lambert didn't think of it because he had so much space to run into in the first half, it was ridiculous.
I like Lambert but tactically on occasions he leaves you tearing your hair out.
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We did looked tired in the last 20 mins or so. May be that was due to Everton having had an extra 24 hours rest as they payed on Tuesday.
Havw to say that is a lame excuse, we hadnt played for 11 days and they had played the shite that is Stevenage
Agree that we have had fair amount of rest since opting out of the FA cup. However we did have a tough game on Wednesday have to come back from 2-0 down whereas they lied down and let Liverpool tickle their belly on Tuesday night.
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I thought it was the sort of performance we often saw from mid table opposition at VP when we were a top 6 side. Everton have a really good home record but we were organised and hard working. We scored a good goal and I thought we'd be good for a point until that free kick. It's not much fun to watch but it is what so many teams try to do that I am surprised it is causing such a fuss.
Got to respectfully disagree Chris. Up at Anfield two weeks ago we closed down and harried their midfield, forcing them into mistakes. Gerrard commented on it himself. We did it once yesterday, which led to our goal. The rest of the game panned out with ten men behind the ball defending our lead. We didn't go to Liverpool with tactics like that, why should yesterday have been any different?
I think the efforts of the mid week derby and the absence of Gabby went a long way to dictating how we set up yesterday. I have no idea if playing differently would have yielded a different outcome but I do know that it is a tactic used by a lot of teams.
Efforts of midweek. You make out no one else played in the week
Playing holt and Benteke is just plain stupid. I think we will see a lot of this while Gabby isnt around because PL will want to prove a point. Doing this means Weimann isnt in his best position up front.
Holt looks like the player we all thought he was. Rubbish
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I thought it was the sort of performance we often saw from mid table opposition at VP when we were a top 6 side. Everton have a really good home record but we were organised and hard working. We scored a good goal and I thought we'd be good for a point until that free kick. It's not much fun to watch but it is what so many teams try to do that I am surprised it is causing such a fuss.
Got to respectfully disagree Chris. Up at Anfield two weeks ago we closed down and harried their midfield, forcing them into mistakes. Gerrard commented on it himself. We did it once yesterday, which led to our goal. The rest of the game panned out with ten men behind the ball defending our lead. We didn't go to Liverpool with tactics like that, why should yesterday have been any different?
I think the efforts of the mid week derby and the absence of Gabby went a long way to dictating how we set up yesterday. I have no idea if playing differently would have yielded a different outcome but I do know that it is a tactic used by a lot of teams.
Efforts of midweek. You make out no one else played in the week
Playing holt and Benteke is just plain stupid. I think we will see a lot of this while Gabby isnt around because PL will want to prove a point. Doing this means Weimann isnt in his best position up front.
Holt looks like the player we all thought he was. Rubbish
Holt is not rubbish. He's definatley not the player you want in place of Gabby if you're planning to catch teams on the break though.
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If Lerner wants to sell surely he will find it easier to do, and at the same time get a better price, if the club are doing well?
Like the rest of you I have no insight into his intentions but the idea that if he did it would equate with running us down makes little sense.
Except you'll remember the famous DO'L quote about not changing the curtains if you're about to sell the house.
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It was his first start so he needs to be cut a little slack but if Holt is serious about 'ramming it down the throats' of those who think hes not good enough, he'll need to improve an awful lot.
No complaints about his effort but his technique was poor and he looked a fish out of water at that level.
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If Lerner wants to sell surely he will find it easier to do, and at the same time get a better price, if the club are doing well?
Like the rest of you I have no insight into his intentions but the idea that if he did it would equate with running us down makes little sense.
Except you'll remember the famous DO'L quote about not changing the curtains if you're about to sell the house.
Except it's not the same as selling a house, is it, where you have something that, for the most part, increased in value without having to do too much. It's selling a business and the vendor will want to make it as an attractive prospect as possible to recoup the investment he has made.
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When Alex McLeish set up his team to do exactly this everyone was up in arms were they not? Not here but at Birmingham! They finished ninth that season.
Their fans hated watching Foster,Johnson,Dann etc hoofing it in the direction of Zigic for 90mins and said so.
We are doing exactly that. Paul Lambert doesn't have the intelligence to understand its awful to watch.
You may not like him but can you imagine Harry Redknapp playing this way?.
I didn't think so.
On the point of Redknapp, QPR fans this season have actually been voicing a fair bit of dissatisfaction about the playing style at the club. They've viewed him as quite negative, and despite having a plethora of attacking midfielders like Phillips, SWP, Kranjcer, Benayoun, and Hoilett, none of whom would look out of place in the Prem (if motivated) still don't play attractive football.
They're 2nd in the table but the fans are moaning about the style. Most of their wins are by the odd goal. Unsurprisingly their best players this season have been their two CH's, Barton, and Austin who nicks them wins at the other end.
Just saying like. Before we go down that dark road of fancying Arry Redknapp at the club. And indeed when he first joined QPR he basically set them up as a team that had 10 men behind the ball and hoofed it long. They were tougher to beat but still not winning the games they needed.
That said, we're within our rights to complain after the dross of all but 3-4 games this season, that we've been served up.
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Just seen MOTD
Lambert said we were excellent
ffs
someone have a word please , it was anti football awful .
one step forward four steps back
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When Alex McLeish set up his team to do exactly this everyone was up in arms were they not? Not here but at Birmingham! They finished ninth that season.
Their fans hated watching Foster,Johnson,Dann etc hoofing it in the direction of Zigic for 90mins and said so.
We are doing exactly that. Paul Lambert doesn't have the intelligence to understand its awful to watch.
You may not like him but can you imagine Harry Redknapp playing this way?.
I didn't think so.
But we don't do it every game, that's the point. We were superb against Liverpool in the first half. They couldn't have complained if they'd gone in 3-0 down at half time. That's why yesterday was so bloody frustrating.
I agree, but looking at performances over the last 3 months or so I'd say the Liverpool game is a bit of a blip.
Just as it was last season
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Its certainly time to put this 3-5-2 (or 10-0-0) formation to the knackers yard. It's awful, it's fugly to watch and more often than not we'll lose using it. Just because we pulled off a result against Man City (one of the most fortuitous results this season) doesn't make it a winner. The sooner Lambert gets that into his noggin the better. Unfortunately he's not proven himself to be a fast learner.
We got something out of Liverpool by being adventurous, pressing high up and attacking.
I don't think we're in any danger of relegation. I can't see us not getting another 13 points, which would be more than enough. I would fancy us to beat all those teams around us away from home. Just as long as Gabby is fit.
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Why did he change to three centre backs after the last two games being, arguably, out best. Bizarre. Would like him to explain his changes.
exactly . he makes a lot of awful decisions , never learns . I thought we were good against poo and thou baggies was so entertaining , it could have gone either way , two poor teams to be fair , they were just a little shiter.
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I've not read the thread and not seen any highlights. Therefore, the following is based purely on what I saw from my crappy position in the second row by the corner flag.
Firstly, regarding the area around Goodison Park. Do they import dog-shit or are the canines of Everton particularly proficient crappers ?
If Lukaku or any decent striker had been playing for Everton yesterday, Villa could not have complained about losing by five.
Starting Holt means that you don't have him available at the time he's most needed, ie with five minutes to go and you need to hang on for a point (see Liverpool away).
Of course Villa didn't need to sign another centre half. Why would anyone think that ? (insert sarcasm emoticon here)
How weak must the squad be when bringing on KEA is not just an improvement its an absolute necessity.
Benteke may be able to bully mediocre centre halves (see WBA) but put him up against a decent pairing and he's not a major threat (albeit, not having Gabby around didn't help him).
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Why did he change to three centre backs after the last two games being, arguably, out best. Bizarre. Would like him to explain his changes.
exactly . he makes a lot of awful decisions , never learns . I thought we were good against poo and thou baggies was so entertaining , it could have gone either way , two poor teams to be fair , they were just a little shiter.
I think that the three centre backs formation is because Lamberts trying to cover for Spongey Ron being a constant injury risk and Baker/Clark can't be trusted as a pair.
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For this and the last 3 seasons we have hardly ever put a consistent run together which is why it was no surprise that we were beaten yesterday, there is another reason though which is that Everton even with injuries are a very tough side to play at Goodison and were looking to respond to a bad defeat, it was always going to be very difficult, I agree with Chris Smith, why the fuss and surprise at this narrow defeat?
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What was also annoying about yesterday was that it was only a matter of time before they scored. Also, I thought the referee was poor. If you watch the highlights again from MOTD, he gives Everton a free kick late in the second half and he let's them take it from nowhere near where the offence occurred. He gave them a lot of the decisions as well. I'd never heard off him either.
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On a fashion note (and I'm sure Gok Wan would agree) I thought we looked very good in that kit with the claret shorts. Except Grant Holt who of course would look like a refuge collector no matter what kit he was wearing!
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I've not read the thread and not seen any highlights. Therefore, the following is based purely on what I saw from my crappy position in the second row by the corner flag.
Firstly, regarding the area around Goodison Park. Do they import Blues or are the canines of Everton particularly proficient crappers ?
If Lukaku or any decent striker had been playing for Everton yesterday, Villa could not have complained about losing by five.
Starting Holt means that you don't have him available at the time he's most needed, ie with five minutes to go and you need to hang on for a point (see Liverpool away).
Of course Villa didn't need to sign another centre half. Why would anyone think that ? (insert sarcasm emoticon here)
How weak must the squad be when bringing on KEA is not just an improvement its an absolute necessity.
Benteke may be able to bully mediocre centre halves (see WBA) but put him up against a decent pairing and he's not a major threat (albeit, not having Gabby around didn't help him).
Wholly agreed on Lukaku. With a good focal point, Everton would have destroyed us with the pathetic way we set out.
As for Benteke. I've seen him bully the best. First half I thought he'd been getting slightly the better of Jagielka. Jagielka was actually looking a bit wound up by the end of the half. Second half however, not particularly his own fault, Benteke just never got the ball. Our ball retention went from piss poor, to absolutely fucking woeful between halfs.
It's a shame in many regards how we spent years as a side toe to toe with Everton. Normally very well matched games, but in recent times they look a whole league above us. It's embarrassing. It's fucking Everton!
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I agree with Chris Smith, why the fuss and surprise at this narrow defeat?
I think people are more annoyed about the way we set up and played rather the defeat.
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What was also annoying about yesterday was that it was only a matter of time before they scored. Also, I thought the referee was poor. If you watch the highlights again from MOTD, he gives Everton a free kick late in the second half and he let's them take it from nowhere near where the offence occurred. He gave them a lot of the decisions as well. I'd never heard off him either.
It was his sixth game. I thought he was OK.
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... I agree with Chris Smith, why the fuss and surprise at this narrow defeat?
because of the insipid performance; because of the fact that we lacked the MF we thought should have been bought last month; because playing Holt and Benteke didn't seem to make sense; because Baker in a back three doesn't make sense; because ...
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I agree with Chris Smith, why the fuss and surprise at this narrow defeat?
I think people are more annoyed about the way we set up and played rather the defeat.
That's certainly my issue.2nd half we were completely overan and the neither of the 2 strikers we played could hold the ball and therefore Weimann was also ineffective so it was basically then just attack vs defence.
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I agree with Chris Smith, why the fuss and surprise at this narrow defeat?
I think people are more annoyed about the way we set up and played rather the defeat.
I agree but according to the BBC: "Prior to this result, Villa had only lost three times away all season and their 3-5-2 formation, along with some brave defending, made it look like they would pinch victory".
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What was also annoying about yesterday was that it was only a matter of time before they scored. Also, I thought the referee was poor. If you watch the highlights again from MOTD, he gives Everton a free kick late in the second half and he let's them take it from nowhere near where the offence occurred. He gave them a lot of the decisions as well. I'd never heard off him either.
It was his sixth game. I thought he was OK.
I thought he did quite well. Some other refs might have whistled for Delph's challenge, leading up to our goal. He did get the ball, it was a good tackle, but he came in from behind so we're lucky that the ref had clear line of sight. Some refs will just always give challenges like that as a foul, no matter if the ball is got first.
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Apart from the fact we scored with one breakaway the rest of the game was like watching kids playing 'shots in' in the park with a pair of coats as the only goal.
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I thought we looked tired in that second half, which isn't a surprise given the match we had on Wednesday night and given that our opposition hadn't bothered turning up for theirs on Tuesday.
Still, it's annoying that at some point over a year ago somebody replaced Ciaran Clarke's feet with a pair of sand wedges.
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Benteke may be able to bully mediocre centre halves (see WBA) but put him up against a decent pairing and he's not a major threat (albeit, not having Gabby around didn't help him).
Yesterday the Everton defence regularly beat Benteke to the ball from our hoofed clearances and when he did get his head to the ball neither Holt nor Weimann anticipated the flick-on. Against West Brom he missed very few in the air.
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People taking issue with him changing a winning side, it isn't the 80's. Also, was that not exactly what MON got slagged for? He picked a formation to stifle the opposition and for 65 minutes he got it spot on. We used the ball poorly but to me we looked shattered, maybe Wednesday night took it out of us?
I think that's the issue, he picked a formation to stifle their side, rather than to actually play football ourselves. I must admit for a while i thought it might just work, but with no real out ball and absolutely no midfield presence it became obvious the pressure and their massive possession were almost certainly going to pay off for them eventually.
we looked like when SHA were in the Prem to me .
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You are a half full man then
Look at the table. We are 5 points off the bottom three and have West Ham up next.
I wouldnt trust PL to spend any money
Its the manner of the performance and tactics that is so appalling
Yeah, we have West Ham at home. we'll beat them.
Games like Fulham away, Palace at home and Sunderland at home are the ones that really piss me off. Today was not one of those games. They were better, but we've played similar and came away with wins before (Southampton).
Obviously I don't want us to play like this every game but we have to do what we can to get points and up until 75 mins it was working.
sorry Smirker , I wouldnt bet anything we will beat west ham at home.
Its not going to be easy .
yes they are shite but this is not a home banker , Villa dont do home bankers
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Does anyone enjoy watching how we play football? If we aren't competing to win anything and we aren't entertaining, what is the point?
This. No one can enjoy 90 minutes plus of backs to the wall football. It's torture.
I watch every game with a keen 100 % eye but yesterday I was bored with it even chatting with a friend online while the game was on . Villa bored me. Soon as I saw the team I knew it.
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Why did he change to three centre backs after the last two games being, arguably, out best. Bizarre. Would like him to explain his changes.
exactly . he makes a lot of awful decisions , never learns . I thought we were good against poo and thou baggies was so entertaining , it could have gone either way , two poor teams to be fair , they were just a little shiter.
I think that the three centre backs formation is because Lamberts trying to cover for Spongey Ron being a constant injury risk and Baker/Clark can't be trusted as a pair.
should have bought one then . we know hes injury prone that why he will never play for a top club . If he was always fit , he wouldnt be here .
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And another thing, we have a world class striker in our team who will more than likely go on to win league titles and other honours in his career. And what have we done all season? Hoof the ball in his general direction. Our whole ethos is just wrong, wrong, wrong. Not only are we not utilising a truly great player properly, we are just sucking the life out of our fans.
The frustrating thing is that when we do try and play, we do very well as at Anfield and against West Brom.
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Thought I'd allow the dust to settle and post a measured response to yesterday, and allow angry people to let off steam yesterday.
First half was OK I thought. Yes we had one chance, but Everton didnt really carve out chance after chance. Even with a weakened side, Everton were always going to come back strong in the second half, and we were under the cosh for the last 25-30 minutes. However, last season we would probably have gone on to conceed 4 or 5 goals, so there is clearly a more resiliant manner about us.
Yes, by and large the performances have not been great this season, but when we play well, we're capable of getting a result against most sides in the league. We are a mid-table side, doing by and large what mid-table sides do... not getting a consistent run of results.
We are 10th in the table. Sure we might by only a handful of points ahead of the sides in the mix, but we have the points on the board. The next two game are really good chances for us to really get some breathing space, but we need to find more performances like what we saw at Anfield.
I feel we need 4 more wins this season. We stopped up on 41 last season. Something tells me the total needed to survive won't be as high as that this time.
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I`m seriously beginning to wonder whether in years to come, the Lerner/Lambert combination will be looked on as an absolute catastrophe for Aston Villa football club, screw the "we`re better off than last year" argument, fact is, we are a piss poor side in a poor league, we`re bringing in sub-standard signings, investing less and less on the pitch and it shows, it`s just a matter of time before this disasterous policy catches up with us. In terms of quality of performance, we are going backwards. If things don`t improve, the gates will plunge next season, less revenue = even less investment and then what??....
With the wage bill having been slashed and the TV income up I think we must be very profitable at the moment. Is Randy trousering the profit or saving it for the summer? Or making what he can before he sells?
Part of me would really like to think so.
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Just back to London after spending yesterday with a group of scousers, heavy day!! They couldn't believe we didn't rip them apart and, despite their pressure, felt lucky, with the team they had, to have beaten us. They were moaning about Neysmith something rotten before the game.
Villa fans were great throughout but I took a load of abuse for the "sign on" song when I got back to the pub( something I don't sing)
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Firstly, regarding the area around Goodison Park. Do they import Blues or are the canines of Everton particularly proficient crappers ?
Goodison is famous for the amount of dog shit on the streets around it. Up to the 80s and early 90s it was always white. Like everything else at Goodison.
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The word filter makes serious discussion bout canine excrement very difficult
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I thought we looked tired in that second half, which isn't a surprise given the match we had on Wednesday night and given that our opposition hadn't bothered turning up for theirs on Tuesday.
I was going to type exactly the same thing yesterday evening. I thought all week we'd beat Everton by a couple of goals but the lads simply looked cream-crackered by the second half yesterday. Hopefully we'll sort out squad depth and quality in the summer.
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Just back to London after spending yesterday with a group of scousers, heavy day!! They couldn't believe we didn't rip them apart and, despite their pressure, felt lucky, with the team they had, to have beaten us. They were moaning about Neysmith something rotten before the game.
Villa fans were great throughout but I took a load of abuse for the "sign on" song when I got back to the pub( something I don't sing)
What was the Everton biew of our performance and tactics. Amazed they were so positive about us before KO
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Just back to London after spending yesterday with a group of scousers, heavy day!! They couldn't believe we didn't rip them apart and, despite their pressure, felt lucky, with the team they had, to have beaten us. They were moaning about Neysmith something rotten before the game.
Villa fans were great throughout but I took a load of abuse for the "sign on" song when I got back to the pub( something I don't sing)
What was the Everton biew of our performance and tactics. Amazed they were so positive about us before KO
We met with Liverpool fans much later who said we were the best team at Anfield this season. All bar one thought we have a good team but just too inconsistent.
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The coaching really upsets me !
We have a fresh win, scored 4 goal earlier in the week and should be in a positive mindset.
So it must be very debilitating for the players when the manager set an entirely negative match plan.
Then there is the mistake with putting KEA on the pitch again. Currently when both Westwood and KEA is on the pitch at the same time our midfield just falls apart.
KEA managed to lose us a game that we almost (undeserving) was winning. First he is on the wrong side of the player he is supposed to cover (think it was Pinaar) who then
unchallenged can put the ball behind the line for Naismith. 1-1. Later his abysmal passing leads to the turnover that Clark then stops by a foul. 2-1 on the freekick.
The positives was that Bertrand and Delph makes our left ide very solid. Bacuna totally disabled Baines and scored again. Imagine how good he would be for us if Lowton, KEA and Westwood
wasnt next to him to instantly give the ball away in every game.
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So Vlaar goes off, we suddenly start to look shaky and then deservedly concede another, well, who could have predicted that?
As for possession stats, we were no threat to them whatsoever for 3/4 of the game, how could we be?
He's been good this season, but his injury record is becoming a concern.
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So Vlaar goes off, we suddenly start to look shaky and then deservedly concede another, well, who could have predicted that?
As for possession stats, we were no threat to them whatsoever for 3/4 of the game, how could we be?
He's been good this season, but his injury record is becoming a concern.
It's a concern for two reasons, firstly that he's a good defender and his captaincy/leadership is vital. Secondly our other centre halves are nowhere near good enough.
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Vlaar is a good captain but, strangely, when Baker came on against Albion and nobody knew what the hell was going on, there were no instructions passed to him, or given by him, in the initial turmoil that ensued.
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Vlaar is a good captain but, strangely, when Baker came on against Albion and nobody knew what the hell was going on, there were no instructions passed to him, or given by him, in the initial turmoil that ensued.
It can often seem like that when a substitution occurs just because the rhythm of the side has been broken. I didn't see that much turmoil compared to what had gone before because the pace of that game was pretty frantic anyway.
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Ron Vlaar doesn't like playing in the winter months.