Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on December 07, 2013, 06:57:25 PM
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Available Sunday 8.12.13 @3.20pm.
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Buy some fucking experienced players villa. We look like schoolboys without Vlaar.
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we are miles and miles away from being interesting
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Do we practice passing?
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Shit.
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Awful. Refereeing a joke.
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Dreadful , dire and dross !
Weimann , Westwood and bacuna were all especially shit !
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Well that was pretty bad.
Lets see what January brings
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We're so shit it's unbelieveable.
Totally and utterly clueless.
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That was really, really poor in almost all aspects. Goals mask a lot of things but we were technically inept and taken apart by a team that had forgotten how to win.
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You're forgetting. We would have lost this kind of match last seas......oh.
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Awful. Refereeing a joke.
Not as much a joke as some of our players - we were lucky to lose 2-0 .
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Well that was pretty bad.
Lets see what January brings
IF it brings anything it is more likely to be more Championship quality.
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Fulham's day and they had the luck with them. Especially getting the soft pen and we not getting two stonewall penalties. However we were outplayed and didn't do enough to get something out of this match. We need a plan other than counter attacking.
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Painful
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Absolute garbage
Guzan 5
Clark 5
Baker 5
Herd 5
Bacuna 2
Weimann 0
KEA 3
Delph 5
Westwood 3
Benteke 1
Gabby 6
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Tonev 0
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missing key players is the excuse Lambert will come out with, doesn't excuse the pathetic performance...
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Let's all overreact!
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Awful referee, but that's no excuse, we were second best by a long, long way.
Been a fan of Lambert for a long whle, but I am getting sick to the tits of our inability to get even the basics right - can't pass, can't keep the ball, don't move off it, don't use space.
Too many of these players are simply not good enough.
I am not making excuses for Lambert, but have a feeling that, given the new wage structure we are having to work within, that is going to create the same problem for whoever is our manager.
Very disappointing again from Weimann today - I can't recall a more anonymous performance than that. It was so bad that I didn't even notice Quinn's inability to pronounce his name until about 70 minutes, because he hadn't had cause to actually say it up to that point.
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Rubbish performance. We were due an away defeat. Thank goodness we beat Southampton.
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Makes a mockery of Lambert's we don't need experience shit.
A midfield of over 30 year old's one 37 completely battered us today
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I'm beginning to loathe December as much as March.
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It's games like this that commenting on the referee's performance is utterly pointless. It's the team and the manager's fault. Toothless. If you play like that you have yourself to blame.
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Shocking from start to finish. I think lambert can chance enough points to give the part time yank the mid table mediocrity he so craves but his football is wank, his signings are wank and we are the worst team to watch in the division.
I'm sorry, this isn't knee jerk but I don't want him here. He is turning us into something that is going to be impossible to reverse. All we have is counter attack and I fear other managers will watch what Fulham have done today and see how easy it is to stop us....just like happened last year.
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We need some leadership in the middle of the park. Completely devoid of ideas and movement there.
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Wank, as said in the match thread, would sell Benteke now if the money was reinvested in the midfield. Kozák, Gabby, Helenius & Weimann can all play centrally.
Sort this shit out Lambert. Cannot have a team who can't string five fucking passes together.
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Parker showed our midfield how to do it today.
Awful tactics, no movement, resulting in long balls.
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Utter dog sh*t from start to finish. Not a single solitary positive note.
I've said it before and I will say it again, we look increasingly like a science experiment gone wrong.
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The warning signs were there during our unbeaten run. We're a poor side overperforming. Tactically inept, short on quality, and riding our luck. Today the luck ran out and Vlaar's presence was sorely missed.
Most of our squad isn't Premiership quality. Our manager can motivate and get hard work but he's useless at organising things. Tactically he's clueless. Either he gets a decent right hand man or he'll eventually get booted because we'll slip back into the mire unless we address matters.
This has been coming for weeks now. Well and deservedly beaten. As poor as the ref was, it's no excuse.
It's going to be a tough Christmas I suspect.
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Parker showed our midfield how to do it today.
Awful tactics, no movement, resulting in long balls.
I suspect that, if he persists with us playing long balls, the sizeable well of goodwill he still has is going to run dry very, very quickly.
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Wank, as said in the match thread, would sell Benteke now if the money was reinvested in the midfield. Kozák, Gabby, Helenius & Weimann can all play centrally.
Sort this shit out Lambert. Cannot have a team who can't string five fucking passes together.
I'd be happy if we were playing a third as well as Norwich did under Lambert. We're not a great deal better than we were under Mcleish.
Booooooooo
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Fulham looked pleased that Jol's gone, though. It does make a difference, but we played it very much into their hands.
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Well that was pretty bad.
Lets see what January brings
Probably a young and hungry inexperienced player bought for peanuts.
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I am miserable now. Time to hibernate for a week. See you all whenever.
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It was sickening to be goaded on Wednesday for pointing out the possession and shot stats. There was a reason. To show that we were STILL, as we were against Cardiff and Sunderland, papering over the fact that we are one of the worst teams in the division.
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I could see no rationale that would justify the two penalty decisions. Time to check betting patterns, they were that bad.
The real annoying thing is that it made no difference. 2-0 was a fair result. We were listless and for the most part utterly disinterested. Whatever the issues are with Lowton and Benteke, Lambert needs to sort them out. Even he looked to have given up.
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Wank, as said in the match thread, would sell Benteke now if the money was reinvested in the midfield. Kozák, Gabby, Helenius & Weimann can all play centrally.
Sort this shit out Lambert. Cannot have a team who can't string five fucking passes together.
I'd be happy if we were playing a third as well as Norwich did under Lambert. We're not a great deal better than we were under Mcleish.
If Benteke keeps this form up, we'll be lucky to get 10 million for him. He's been piss poor for months now. He wasnt even that great early season, but he scored goals to mask the fact he's clearly lost a bit of pace and drive.
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I'm sorry, this isn't knee jerk but I don't want him here. He is turning us into something that is going to be impossible to reverse. All we have is counter attack and I fear other managers will watch what Fulham have done today and see how easy it is to stop us....just like happened last year.
What?
Lambert is doing a good job. This does sound knee jerk. He's been here 18th months, we're doing better than we were last year. Been unlucky with injuries, lucky in some games yes.
I trust he will sort our passing out and get us settled. To say you don't want him here is way over the top, imho.
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Awful referee, but that's no excuse, we were second best by a long, long way.
Been a fan of Lambert for a long whle, but I am getting sick to the tits of our inability to get even the basics right - can't pass, can't keep the ball, don't move off it, don't use space.
Too many of these players are simply not good enough.
I am not making excuses for Lambert, but have a feeling that, given the new wage structure we are having to work within, that is going to create the same problem for whoever is our manager.
Swansea, West Brasil, Cardiff etc.. all have lower spend and wage structure but at least they can pass the bloody ball.
No doubt Lambert will find something to blame. The real blame is staring at him in the mirror. Tactically clueless.
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For me, Lambert's going to have to pull off a bloody spectacular signing in January just to give the side some confidence. They look as if going through the motions is too much effort.
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My stream is showing Keys and Gray now. What official channel do they work for?
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Picking things apart, there isn't really much you can add that hasn't already been said.
But what it really comes down to, our players are not good enough at this present moment in time.
They have potential to improve of course, but I fear many will get found out and fall away too. And its inevitable our better performers will get better offers, then leave. Its all a commendable idea, this build on a budget, I just think its almost an impossible task in the unfair capitalist football world.
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Should have sold Benteke once he handed in a request. No comeback from that.
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What a load of utter bollocks and my record still stands of not seeing us win away this millennium
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It was sickening to be goaded on Wednesday for pointing out the possession and shot stats. There was a reason. To show that we were STILL, as we were against Cardiff and Sunderland, papering over the fact that we are one of the worst teams in the division.
It's been coming. The sad part is that Lambert seemed fine with how it was going and hasn't addressed any of those issues, or even tried. We could have taken that bit of luck and those results, despite playing wretchedly and built upon it.
Today showed a shit team overperforming up against an average side underperforming, and there was a switcharound.
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There's only so honest Lambert can be but I just want him to come out and say we played poorly and tell us that we have a lot of work ahead. I'm sure that they he will have a word with the players but that was very poor indeed. Fans aren't stupid and while we don't see everything the pros see, we're not complete morons either.
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Parker showed our midfield how to do it today.
Awful tactics, no movement, resulting in long balls.
I suspect that, if he persists with us playing long balls, the sizeable well of goodwill he still has is going to run dry very, very quickly.
Just wait until next weekend. It won't be pretty.
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Poor. A large gap in the team where some sort of midfield should exist.
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Predictably blew a good chance for 3pts away from home to a struggling team with a new manager ahead of our annual battering by Man Utd next week. This is definitely 3pts dropped which could have given us some breathing space between the relegation battle developing at the bottom of the league over the Xmas period, but we got nothing and deserved to get nothing on yet another piss poor performance.
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We're still in the top half, but if we're not careful we'll fail to consolidate that and slip back down into chaos at the bottom. In order to avoid that, we need to:
1) Stop giving the f**ing ball away. I know 'ball' is a four letter word but we shouldn't censor its existence from our midfield.
2) Stop playing players who are out of form from sheer hope. Lowton was, in my view, rightly dropped for a poor start to the season, but what do Weimann or Westwood have to do get a seat on the bench for a game? I don't think they're suddenly shite, this time last season we were raving about Westwood and bemoaning the shitness of Delph and that's football, form changes, but Albrighton and Sylla have done nothing not to be given a shot, and it's absurd to deny them that (or bring Lowton back to right-back and put Bacuna in midfield with Delph. I don't mind, just try something).
3) (And this is related to 1)) STOP HOOFING IT. Early in the game, when it was 0-0, we got a free-kick just inside our half and everyone lumbered into their box for Clark to wallop it towards them, like we're Pulis' Stoke in the last minute. And we wonder why we have the worst possession statistics in the division.
4) Paul. I think we all like you. But please make some substitutions at a point earlier than Way Too Late, and please sign some players with a bit of creativity. Creative players aren't a disease, you know. Just because you look like MON doesn't mean your football has to, and on a fraction of the budget.
That said, it's not so bad, and Fulham were due a backlash, they do have some good players. But there needs to be a lot of improvement - the problems in the side are there for all to see, and they require addressing sharpish.
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I do wonder how bad it will have to get for Lerner to contemplate the chop. He got rid of McLeish citing style of play. On that basis, Lambert might want to start putting some feelers out.
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At least it puts the frighteners on the bogies.
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If we're so shite, it must be painful supporting the ten teams below us in the league.
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One step forward, two steps back. I await with interest to see if Mike Dean is dropped from the next round of fixtures.
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Playing on the break looks great when teams pressure you up the pitch - but when that does not happen, we don't have a way of playing through teams, just hit long balls.
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If we're so shite, it must be painful supporting the ten teams below us in the league.
It's not that. We've just played poorly in large chunks in games recently and very poorly in almost all aspects today. The teams below us have done that too and have other major flaws which is why they are below us.
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Playing on the break looks great when teams pressure you up the pitch - but when that does not happen, we don't have a way of playing through teams, just hit long balls.
I saw Fulham pressing us very high on a number of occasions. The midfield and defence just weren't controlled enough in possession to take advantage of the space left.
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I do wonder how bad it will have to get for Lerner to contemplate the chop. He got rid of McLeish citing style of play. On that basis, Lambert might want to start putting some feelers out.
I can't see him doing anything. He'll just look at the table, see us 10th and go back to whatever he was doing. Add to that his previous record of appointments he won't want to be in the position of having to find another manager.
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Lambert has not got a clue how to change things when it's not working.its so frustrating.
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Parker showed our midfield how to do it today.
Awful tactics, no movement, resulting in long balls.
I suspect that, if he persists with us playing long balls, the sizeable well of goodwill he still has is going to run dry very, very quickly.
Already is I suspect.The performance much more than losing pissed me off today.Midfield was so poor Delph tries but Westwood and KEA both lightweight today ,Tonev was wrong sub too IMO.Should of been Sylla
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first half wasnt all that bad. threw in the towel at half time.
shameful performance.
Thought lowton and Albrighton showed a bit of heart when they came on.
guzan 5 - one great save but shares some of the blame for the first and joined in with the keystone cops act in the second half
bacuna 2 - to be honest, not sure he even deserved 2. shouldnt have played today after a few shocking performances lately. that he was left on was a bit cruel
herd 6 - won everything in the air but is a dirty player for sure. too rash to be a centre half but Id chance him in midfield for a few games ahead of the weaklings we have in there
clark 6 - couple of unbelievable interceptions at times but hoofed it continuously. fear for him in the next game
baker 3 - not a left back and this was proven beyond doubt yet again.
westwood 4 - had an absolute shocker and was looking to be taken out of his misery long before the end
Kea 4 - an utterly shit player that Im sick of seeing playing for the club. doesnt have an ounce of quality
delph 7 - decent on the ball but forced to do too much at times due to no-one else playing in midfield with him. should be looking to move to a better club to be honest. How can a decent midfielder play in a side that just hoofs it constantly
weimann 2 - getting found out this season. desperately poor technically and now that he cant be arsed putting in a shift he looks woefully out of his depth
gabby 6 - poor in first half but was a reasonable threat in the second and did enough to have won that penalty.
Benteke 5 - missed sitter sums up his season. couple of decent shots but how can Gabby and himself be expected to thrive when the default mode of our players is to hoof the ball 50 yards?
Tonev 2 - oh dear
lambert - awful, just awful.
to be honest we have been riding our luck something terrible lately so inevitably it came back to bite us today. Ref rode us but we deserved nothing. Most of our players had zero courage, if you are playing at this level then you shouldnt treat the ball like a grenade.
If Lerner has any thoughts about putting a few quid into the club then I dont think Lambert is our man.
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We're a mediocre team in a mediocre mini league. There are worse sides than us and we're better than last year
I wish our form would improve though. There's not much difference between today's performance and our last two away games, except we missed vlaar - even though I thought herd and Clark did well individually.
But if we'd had an in form Lowton, vlaar Okore and luna we'd have surely done better today
I thought we were ok for spells of the first half. Not great, but ok considering our recent form
Second half the subs just didn't work at all.
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Im getting bored with Lambert
I wanted him , maybe the best we could get at the time , I won a lot of money betting on him
I suppose I expected us to be like Dortmund
but hes bought us a lot of players who are not good enough , a lot of poor players
our best players have been Guzan and Delph and Gabby has worked hard at times , two players he didnt sign.
He has lived off the Benteke signing but most of the rest have been poor signings bar a couple and stop playing players out of form and position .
He has no tatical nous . It improved alot the second half of the season last but it was so dire , it had to and I expected us to push on a little
this season but hes going backwards . People will say but we are 10th , what do you want ? but by Mcgrath is absolute garbage at times .
He has disppointed me this season if I am being honest.
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It's hard to play any kind of passing game when you don't have a midfield. Delph is head and shoulders above many prem players but he can't do it on his own. The defence is makeshift mainly due to injuries and the lack of buying another CB in the summer. So need to buy two good player next month and things could be very different. We were utter rubbish today.
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Playing on the break looks great when teams pressure you up the pitch - but when that does not happen, we don't have a way of playing through teams, just hit long balls.
I saw Fulham pressing us very high on a number of occasions. The midfield and defence just weren't controlled enough in possession to take advantage of the space left.
They sat back more than most do, it was like a home game. But yes, our midfield and forwards didn't keep hold of the ball or use it well.
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We have gone backwards from the end of last season. Lambert settled on the trio of Westwood, Deiplh and Sylla at the end of last season and it looked good. Why has he ditched Sylla for KEA? The Lowton situation is also a joke. The longer Lowton and Sylla are left out the more it knocks their confidence which isn't helped by lack of match practice. Lambert has to buy in January, end of!
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Shocking performance in a long line of shocking performances - Hull, Spurs, Wham, most of Cardiff, Albion, Sunderland, Soton and now Fulham. Don't think we've played well since the Man City game but we've got away with scraping results so we're safely ensconced in mid table - for now
I think the bottom line is that too many of the players simply aren't good enough at this level, and when you factor in injuries to key players (Okore and Vlaar), and lack of form from the likes of Benteke, there's simply insufficient quality in the wider squad. The puzzling thing is the same players played some good football in the latter stages of last season. Were the 'young, hungry' inexperienced players carried by adrenaline in their first season in the top flight and now they just can't compete at this level? Was Benteke a one-season wonder, or is he not fully fit, getting no service, and getting marked out of the game?
The acid test is how many of our players today would have got in any other top half team. Few, if any. If Lambert doesn't invest in quality and soon, I fear the worst. Palace and Fulham have got the 'new manager bounce', and, yes, we're 6 points above the drop zone,but carry on playing like we did today and sooner or later we'll be the new Wigan - hover above relegation for a few seasons but eventually fall through the trap door.
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I suppose I might be one of the few people who's relatively ok with Lambert because I thought he'd be much worse when we appointed him.
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Dortmund we certainly aren't. More like Big Sam's Bolton.
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Guzan -5
Bacuna - 4
Herd 7
Clark 7
Baker 5
Kea 5
Westwood 5
Delph 6
Weimann 3
Benteke 4
Gabby 6
Lowton na
Tonev 5
Albrighton na
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Where do you start with a performance like that ? Seemed they felt like they just had to turn up today.
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my mind always feels like Ive just done two days of VAT for my business when I watch the Villa.
mashed , tired and numb
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Clark and Benteke are the only two who get a pass from me. Maybe Delph too, he did try to get things going.
Been saying it for months but PLEASE take Westwood off set pieces.
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Parker showed our midfield how to do it today.
Awful tactics, no movement, resulting in long balls.
I suspect that, if he persists with us playing long balls, the sizeable well of goodwill he still has is going to run dry very, very quickly.
Just wait until next weekend. It won't be pretty.
He's lucky he replaced Mcleish after some awful football - had he replaced houllier I think more would have turned on him by now.
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totally unbalanced formation. players out of position. passed off the park by a team of old cast offs. we'll be very lucky to avoid a dog fight again in 2014
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Guzan – Great save for the Berb header early on, terrible decision for the 1st goal and a few almost costly decisions later on.
Clark/Baker – Solid enough individually but yes collectively we were a mess
Baucuna – being played out of position, and funnily enough constantly out of position – harsh penalty but he shouldn't have been in that position anyway, a defensive liability
Herd – can't understand any criticism aimed at him today, the defence looked at mess at times but he looked solid enough.
Westwood – Good at the simple little things, but his dead balls are just terrible
Delph – Only real creative spark in the midfield, but stupid yellow yet again to rule him out of the next game.
Gabby – Solid but uninspiring display and was never really given the space to run into
Weimann – who?
Benteke – 2 chances he should have taken, difficult chances yes but world class strikers take those, other than that his running and positional sense has been terrible
Lambert – Really needs a plan B and to begin to rectify the glaring deficiencies he has in both his squad and his tactics
Fulham – got their tactics spot on, didn't rush forward and press high, but gave us time and space on the ball in our own half and then sought to catch us on the break and it worked, essentially playing us at our own counter attacking game.
Ref – It was obviously Jasper Carrot in disguise and after a reasonable start he definitely gave some very dodgy decisions.
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Awful, absolutely shit performance. Thank god I couldn't go for all sorts of reasons, I would be even more seething than I am already. Sort of performance that makes me feel like not bothering any more. The referee was nearly as shit as Bacuna and Weimann and that's saying something. Not that the ref was to blame and not that Bacuna or Weimann were much shittier than the rest of that shower on show. Our summer signings are looking like a complete waste of money. Anyone know where we can buy a midfield?
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Benteke has turned into Darren Bent.
He's lost all ability to pick up the ball and link play.
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I quite enjoyed the first half even when we conceeded twice. The second half we were very poor. The midfield ,if Delph is not on his top form(and since his illness he isnt) is far too lightweight.
Benteke is struggling in terms of confidence and Weimann should not be in the first team squad.
Lambert has a lot work to do in the next few months.
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If we're so shite, it must be painful supporting the ten teams below us in the league.
You're right I'm sure because it's f*****g painful supporting us and sometimes even an embarrassment
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Dortmund we certainly aren't. More like Big Sam's Bolton.
No chance. Big Sam's Bolton were organised and efficient. Very good at set pieces too. We are much worse than that. The absolute garbage we produce at defending or attacking set pieces really worries me and is telling of bigger problems.
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Let's face it, we were awful last week against Sunderland and got lucky in midweek against Southampton. The club is going backwards under Lambert - we look worse than last season! What has happened to Benteke and Weimann?
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Benteke has turned into Darren Bent.
He's lost all ability to pick up the ball and link play.
He is world class though in throwing his arms up in exasperation all the time. Whilst I think he's got it and it's just a matter of fitness and confidence and playing with shit players, you could be forgiven for thinking he is a one season wonder. We'd be saying it about another team's player in a similar situation I suspect
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Read the first few comments, many people seem to feel it was a worse performance than i did. Thought we played better than at Southampton to be honest. We didnt have the luck today, i always felt we were probably due a defeat away, Fulham were due a win. Cant be arsed to be too down, was encoraged by some better passing of the ball and didnt think the defence was too bad either considering the loss of Vlaar.
Most disappointed with losing Delph next week to be quite truthful.
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It's also worth pointing out we have a number of injuries, second highest in the Prem I think (?)
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47% possession according to the Beeb. That's where we went wrong, we had too much of the ball.
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It's also worth pointing out we have a number of injuries, second highest in the Prem I think (?)
All those great players waiting to come back into the team...I can see a late run to the Champions League if we get everyone fit
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I can't think of anything Weimann did in the game at all and he's been like that for most of the season. How does he come straight back into the side and Lowton remain left out for a player playing out of position?
Lambert is a real puzzle at times.
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Really poor as we have been most of the season in truth. Gabby, Herd, Guzan, Delph, Clark, Baker can come out of that with some credit, not much for anyone else.
I'm very disappointed with our work ethic off the ball, when we are in possession and out of it. It's dwindled away from our first games of the season and just makes it too easy for the opposition to play, even when that team is lacking confidence. We need some more experience and creativity in the midfield, how long have we been saying it? It makes losing games like today so much more frustrating when the remedy has been so apparent for so long.
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It's also worth pointing out we have a number of injuries, second highest in the Prem I think (?)
Yet a concious policy of the manager/club to keep a very small squad of players leaves us horribly exposed, something many many people commented on in August.
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It's also worth pointing out we have a number of injuries, second highest in the Prem I think (?)
Not blaming injuries or the ref , lambert has spent Ł43m on players in the last 18 months - today's display was shocking and the players and staff must take a good look at themselves.
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Yes we played fairly shite, but the penalty made it worse. Reverse the two key penalty decisions and we may have got away with a draw.
The key moments though from our point of view was Benteke's two missed chances
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Yes we played fairly shite, but the penalty made it worse. Reverse the two key penalty decisions and we may have got away with a draw.
The key moments though from our point of view was Benteke's two missed chances
That's the point. We always are looking to 'get away with it'. You can't do that for a season.
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Poor tactics and a poor side.
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It's also worth pointing out we have a number of injuries, second highest in the Prem I think (?)
Yet a concious policy of the manager/club to keep a very small squad of players leaves us horribly exposed, something many many people commented on in August.
The majority of clubs will struggle defensively without their 2 first choice CB, as well as being without both natural LB.
MF is where we are too weak, just not enough options in the center.
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Well that was bloody horrible.
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Abject horseshit. What more can I say? 2-0 really flattered us. The most depressing thing about it all is that it isn't going to end soon.
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5 minutes into Arsenal v Everton and there is more quality than the whole Villa game. Embarrassing.
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What's Lowton got to do to get back in?
Surely it's time for him to be recalled!
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Yes it's depressing to see Everton knocking the ball around like this isn't it?
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It's also worth pointing out we have a number of injuries, second highest in the Prem I think (?)
Yet a concious policy of the manager/club to keep a very small squad of players leaves us horribly exposed, something many many people commented on in August.
The majority of clubs will struggle defensively without their 2 first choice CB, as well as being without both natural LB.
MF is where we are too weak, just not enough options in the center.
The loss of Vlaar has essentially cost us 4 goals. We've improved a lot defensively and he is a big part of that. Not only his own play but his ability to help those around him. He is also a natural leader.
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We're not going backwards but there are some areas of our play, i.e. ball retention, creativity, movement off the ball, where we don't appear to have gone forwards either. How many games has Lambert had now? 50-odd? 60? You'd expect there to be some definable style to our play by now but all we seem to offer is Gabby's pace on the break (which we've always had) and hoofing it up to the big man (which we've been doing for some years).
Benteke is so off form that he's temporarily lost the ability to carve out chances for himself from nothing. And on top of that no-one in the midfield or out wide looks like creating them for him on a regular basis.
We also look a very callow team, lots of very pale nervous-looking young boys. Fulham may be where old pros go to die but that match experience a lot of them have can be priceless. We desperately need some of that, particularly in midfield.
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Watched the game on Sky, but was very easily distracted. It seemed to me that a lot of our players fell over, but the Fulham players managed to remain on their feet ok.
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Dire,
Banging the same drum as most others, midfield that cannot create anything.
New additions seem very poor, need some proven campaigners prepared to dig in come Jan or it could be a very long 2014.
This really was a relegation type performance.
With some exceptions, Herd, Gabby, Clarke, Delph very little fight or urgency, I have said give Lambert till this time next year before making hasty judgements, but this type of showing does not make it easy.
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Poor tactics and a poor side.
I'm not even entirely sure what our tactics were first half. From where I was sat it looked like a diamond but I've no idea really where Weimann supposed to be playing. There was no width, no ideas.
Westwoods set pieces were appalling, why on earth did he keep on taking them?
Defence was utter shambles, we were wide open. Baker at left back was god awful, Herd likewise. Bizarre decision to pick the two of them in those positions.
We need a decent centre back and a creative midfielder minimum in Jan to avoid a relegation fight. And that won't happen.
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Lambert: "But as a team, we were short. We never got going."
The closest thing to an honest opinion about us that we a going to get. He mentioned their penalty obviously and the one denied us.
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Paul Lambert post-match.
Paul Lambert accepted fully that Villa weren't at their best at Fulham - but bemoaned two penalty decisions that had a big impact on the final scoreline at Craven Cottage.
Fulham were awarded a first half spot-kick by referee Mike Dean when Leandro Bacuna was adjudged to have fouled Alex Kacaniklic.
But he waved away strong claret and blue protests in the second half when Gabby Agbonlahor was upended in the box by Aaron Hughes.
Lambert felt the referee got both decisions wrong and also spoke of his unhappiness with the official's general performance on the day.
He said: "I don't think we played as well as what we have been.
"But I still think some the decisions out there went against us. In terms of penalty decisions, I thought the Fulham one wasn't and ours was. That's me being honest.
"I didn't think it was a penalty for Fulham. I have just seen it again on the monitor.
"The game is in the balance. The lad has played for that. The referee's view is that he can see it clearly. Mike can see it. There's no-one in his way. There's a full view of it.
"The lad backed into Leo. The referee has given it. That's what has happened. The referee has bought it.
"I think the one on Gabby was a penalty. That was an absolute stonewaller. That would have given us a chance to kick on for the final minutes.
"I don't think Fulham's one was at all. But I thought the referee's performance over the game was poor. I thought some of his decisions were poor."
However, Lambert accepted Villa didn't do enough to collect the three points on the cold afternoon at Craven Cottage.
He added: "We lost three to injury. But that's football and I don't want to make that as an excuse.I couldn't fault the lads for the way they tried to get themselves back into it.
"But I don't think we got going. I can't fault the lads though because the effort was there.
"We had a really tough game on Wednesday. But we pick ourselves up and go again.
"We had chances to get it back if we'd got the penalty which I thought we should have.
"But as a team, we were short. We never got going."
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Yeah that was just poor. Ah well, onto the next game.
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It's also worth pointing out we have a number of injuries, second highest in the Prem I think (?)
All those great players waiting to come back into the team...I can see a late run to the Champions League if we get everyone fit
Don't be a bellend, I'm just trying to point it out as a potential reason why were poor today.
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Don't be a bellend, I'm just trying to point it out as a potential reason why were poor today.
It doesn't explain why we had no creativity and couldn't keep hold of the ball for more than 2 seconds or why we hoofed it far too often. If this is how things are going to be every time we have injuries, which are a fact of footballing life, then we need a much better standard of squad player.
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It's also worth pointing out we have a number of injuries, second highest in the Prem I think (?)
All those great players waiting to come back into the team...I can see a late run to the Champions League if we get everyone fit
Don't be a bellend, I'm just trying to point it out as a potential reason why were poor today.
It's also worth pointing out we have a number of injuries, second highest in the Prem I think (?)
All those great players waiting to come back into the team...I can see a late run to the Champions League if we get everyone fit
Don't be a bellend, I'm just trying to point it out as a potential reason why were poor today.
Perhaps you could refrain from being abusive in future, thank you
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Terrible performance against a team that has lost 6 on the bounce.
Fulham are better than that but really that was way too easy for them.
I think we saw today the effects 23% possession and then playing another away game less than 4 days later have.
We missed Ron badly and need him and Luna back fit for next sunday as for their faults, a defensive unit with them in it (and Lowton) is far better than the piss poor unit we saw.
Delph out suspended for Man. United aswell, great.
And what can you say about our strikers? Even when one of them scores they still look out of it next game. Baffling and it's not like we have saviours on the bench either.
Disappointing. I sort of blame myself aswell as when we play on a Saturday away I normally go to Broad St to watch it but couldn't be bothered with the early start so went into Sutton which was the first time I've watched an away game there since last season.....against Chelsea.
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It's also worth pointing out we have a number of injuries, second highest in the Prem I think (?)
All those great players waiting to come back into the team...I can see a late run to the Champions League if we get everyone fit
Don't be a bellend, I'm just trying to point it out as a potential reason why were poor today.
Less of the insults please.
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I hope this doesn't turn into another nightmare December after last year! The omens aren't good.....Vlaar has another calf injury. Lambert should buy some defensive cover in January - EXPERIENCED!! even if it's a loan deal. Sylla needs to be restored to the middle and Lowton at right-back, Bacuna needs a break, which is understandable given his age and lack of experience at this level; I do think he'll be very good given time.
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I don't think we should be at all surprised about today. This is who Villa are at the moment and probably will stay that way for some time under the current ownership.
Our natural level of form, affected by injuries will produce results like today or maybe a boring draw at home against teams we should beat like Sunderland.
However, we do get lucky as per Citeh and Saints. We'll probably slide down a bit over December and January but we'll pick up later.
It ain't pretty, it ain't fun but it is what it is.
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I don't think we should be at all surprised about today. This is who Villa are at the moment and probably will stay that way for some time under the current ownership.
Our natural level of form, affected by injuries will produce results like today or maybe a boring draw at home against teams we should beat like Sunderland.
However, we do get lucky as per Citeh and Saints. We'll probably slide down a bit over December and January but we'll pick up later.
It ain't pretty, it ain't fun but it is what it is.
That's a pretty depressing summary after 7 years of Lerner's tenure, but true - does he ever attend a match these days? We are light years away from being a top club with this regime.
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We pick ourselves up and we are woeful again.
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Didn't see the match - sounds like I dodged a bullet. Anyhow, from a purely results-oriented point of view, it isn't a major problem is it? Ups and downs, it's not unexpected, we don't have the clout or the quality to string together win after win and we're bound to come a cropper now and then. Nothing to worry about really.
However, the overall style of play is another matter entirely. I understand it's not easy to work with a limited budget and Lambert is doing a decent enough job of improving the overall results, but if securing mid-table security requires him to turn my beloved team into a bastardised version of Pulis' Stoke, then I'm honestly not sure I wouldn't prefer an annual relegation battle.
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I don't think we should be at all surprised about today. This is who Villa are at the moment and probably will stay that way for some time under the current ownership.
Our natural level of form, affected by injuries will produce results like today or maybe a boring draw at home against teams we should beat like Sunderland.
However, we do get lucky as per Citeh and Saints. We'll probably slide down a bit over December and January but we'll pick up later.
It ain't pretty, it ain't fun but it is what it is.
That's a pretty depressing summary after 7 years of Lerner's tenure, but true - does he ever attend a match these days? We are light years away from being a top club with this regime.
Whenever I say that I get jumped on by three or four posters.
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Just grateful it was only 2-0 if i am honest . Could have been a lot more listening to it on the radio .
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I don't think we should be at all surprised about today. This is who Villa are at the moment and probably will stay that way for some time under the current ownership.
Our natural level of form, affected by injuries will produce results like today or maybe a boring draw at home against teams we should beat like Sunderland.
However, we do get lucky as per Citeh and Saints. We'll probably slide down a bit over December and January but we'll pick up later.
It ain't pretty, it ain't fun but it is what it is.
That's a pretty depressing summary after 7 years of Lerner's tenure, but true - does he ever attend a match these days? We are light years away from being a top club with this regime.
Whenever I say that I get jumped on by three or four posters.
Say what you feel - that's what these message boards are for, to vent opinions.
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The rub of the green that had been with us for the last two or three games deserted us today. On the days when we're creating next to nothing we need every bit of luck to go our way. If you're scoring hatfuls of goals the occasional bad penalty decision doesn't matter much but unfortunately we're not in that position.
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We pick ourselves up and we are woeful again.
A light amongst the gloom of the day.
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I don't think we should be at all surprised about today. This is who Villa are at the moment and probably will stay that way for some time under the current ownership.
Our natural level of form, affected by injuries will produce results like today or maybe a boring draw at home against teams we should beat like Sunderland.
However, we do get lucky as per Citeh and Saints. We'll probably slide down a bit over December and January but we'll pick up later.
It ain't pretty, it ain't fun but it is what it is.
That's a pretty depressing summary after 7 years of Lerner's tenure, but true - does he ever attend a match these days? We are light years away from being a top club with this regime.
Whenever I say that I get jumped on by three or four posters.
Yes so do I usually, mainly the Mods. I'm just trying to be realistic. It's the younger fans I feel sorry for. They've seen nothing really and that's not going to change in the near future. Maybe I'm wrong and Lerner will sanction some quality signings in January, but I doubt it somehow. His enthusiasm seems to have waned significantly over the last year or so. He's like an absentee landlord who can't be bothered with his property or his tenants.
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I don't think we should be at all surprised about today. This is who Villa are at the moment and probably will stay that way for some time under the current ownership.
Our natural level of form, affected by injuries will produce results like today or maybe a boring draw at home against teams we should beat like Sunderland.
However, we do get lucky as per Citeh and Saints. We'll probably slide down a bit over December and January but we'll pick up later.
It ain't pretty, it ain't fun but it is what it is.
That's a pretty depressing summary after 7 years of Lerner's tenure, but true - does he ever attend a match these days? We are light years away from being a top club with this regime.
Whenever I say that I get jumped on by three or four posters.
I think we have to abandon the idea of ever being a 'top club' again. Unless we're bought by a Qatari sheikh, or we sell our souls to Red Bull, this is it. We might get lucky in a cup, but we're never going to challenge the big boys with our 'young and hungry' lower league recruitment policy. So where's the enjoyment in that, you may ask? There isn't much on the pitch, which is why the safe standing campaign is so important. We're going to have to make our own fun, I'm afraid, because the club has pretty much thrown in the towel.
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^^^
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Aston Villa manager Paul Lambert:
"We never deserved to win the game but I'm disappointed at some of the decisions. I thought their penalty wasn't one whereas ours when Gabriel Agbonlahor was brought down was a spot-kick.
"I thought referee Mike Dean's performance was poor. I still don't think we did enough to win the game.
"We never got going but couldn't fault the lads for effort. I'm honest enough to feel we didn't deserve to win."
Can't disagree with any of that. It has to improve quickly though Paul. Too many games like this recently.
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Lets speak my mind a little more then. I found it depressing how many posters were glorying in the fact that we were so shite on the ball against Soton. I found it very depressing in fact, and all this 'there's no right way to play the game' etc. Anybody concerned about how bad we actually were got the whole 'we scored three times' thrown in their face.
Football of course is about points accumulated but over the course of a season, teams who struggle with the ball will generally be under pressure more and therefore concede more goals. You might get away with it six or seven times a season and that can push you into mid-table. But that shouldn't be enough. We should be striving to get back with the big boys and to that the whole culture of the club has got to change.
Fulham didn't let us 'smash and grab' and instead played us off the park.
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It's also worth pointing out we have a number of injuries, second highest in the Prem I think (?)
All those great players waiting to come back into the team...I can see a late run to the Champions League if we get everyone fit
Don't be a bellend, I'm just trying to point it out as a potential reason why were poor today.
Personal abuse is not tolerated on this site. Please apologise.
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I for one am ready to see a top six Villa play at their traditional home The Red Bull Arena.
;D
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I don't remember anyone glorying that we had so little possession. Just glorying in three points. There's a big difference.
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That was utter cock rot. We desperately need to find someone to pull the strings in midfield - this long ball up to Benteke is as predicable as it is ineffective. For heaven's sake, please put Lowton in at right back, push Bacuna forward on the right and tell Weimann that he has to start doing some fecking work to justify his new contract. His performance today was absolutely appalling.
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Decisions didn't go for us but it was a tired, lethargic performance. As I'm in a good mood I'll put it down to a tough game mid week and a number of injuries.
I am starting to get concerned by Benteke, however. His confidence has deserted him and without that he looks a shadow of the player he was the second part of last season.
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I did not watch the game, have just got home. How did we line up today - was it 4-2-3-1 ? And where did Tonev play when he came on ? Just curious.
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Also, I don't think we're not 'striving to get back with the big boys'. Being satisfied with where we are this season is based on it bring progress of a sort on how we performed last season. I won't be satisfied with it next season.
Just cos we're not there yet doesn't mean we're not 'striving for it. Sadly, the slightly more solid version of Villa at this stage of transition is less fun to watch than the enthusiastic flakiness of last year.
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Decisions didn't go for us but it was a tired, lethargic performance. As I'm in a good mood I'll put it down to a tough game mid week and a number of injuries.
I am starting to get concerned by Benteke, however. His confidence has deserted him and without that he looks a shadow of the player he was the second part of last season.
The continued lack of form of Benteke is a massive worry. If he is on form it makes us a totally different side attacking wise.
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Lets speak my mind a little more then. I found it depressing how many posters were glorying in the fact that we were so shite on the ball against Soton. I found it very depressing in fact, and all this 'there's no right way to play the game' etc. Anybody concerned about how bad we actually were got the whole 'we scored three times' thrown in their face.
Football of course is about points accumulated but over the course of a season, teams who struggle with the ball will generally be under pressure more and therefore concede more goals. You might get away with it six or seven times a season and that can push you into mid-table. But that shouldn't be enough. We should be striving to get back with the big boys and to that the whole culture of the club has got to change.
Fulham didn't let us 'smash and grab' and instead played us off the park.
I agree. It's why I always smile when people say it's a sign of a good team that they can play badly and still win and get three points. Yes, perhaps that's true for one or two of the top teams, but down at our level it usually means you're pretty poor, got away with it, and will get found out sooner or later. As tended to happen with MON as the season wore on...though tiredness due to lack of squad rotation was clearly a factor there
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I thought we would avoid it this year but maybe we will have our traditional Christmas collapse after all. Merry Christmas everyone! ;D
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I don't think we should be at all surprised about today. This is who Villa are at the moment and probably will stay that way for some time under the current ownership.
Our natural level of form, affected by injuries will produce results like today or maybe a boring draw at home against teams we should beat like Sunderland.
However, we do get lucky as per Citeh and Saints. We'll probably slide down a bit over December and January but we'll pick up later.
It ain't pretty, it ain't fun but it is what it is.
That's a pretty depressing summary after 7 years of Lerner's tenure, but true - does he ever attend a match these days? We are light years away from being a top club with this regime.
Whenever I say that I get jumped on by three or four posters.
Yes so do I usually, mainly the Mods. I'm just trying to be realistic. It's the younger fans I feel sorry for. They've seen nothing really and that's not going to change in the near future. Maybe I'm wrong and Lerner will sanction some quality signings in January, but I doubt it somehow. His enthusiasm seems to have waned significantly over the last year or so. He's like an absentee landlord who can't be bothered with his property or his tenants.
Eh? You're perfectly entitled to your opinion as are the moderators.
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I did not watch the game, have just got home. How did we line up today - was it 4-2-3-1 ? And where did Tonev play when he came on ? Just curious.
4-3-3 first half, then 4-2-4 second half with Tonev wide left and Gabby behind Benteke.
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My opinion is the most valid.
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Decisions didn't go for us but it was a tired, lethargic performance. As I'm in a good mood I'll put it down to a tough game mid week and a number of injuries.
I am starting to get concerned by Benteke, however. His confidence has deserted him and without that he looks a shadow of the player he was the second part of last season.
The continued lack of form of Benteke is a massive worry. If he is on form it makes us a totally different side attacking wise.
There will be a collective sigh and roar across the Villa world; fans, coaches and players when he scores again. The players will visibly grow a foot.
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I did not watch the game, have just got home. How did we line up today - was it 4-2-3-1 ?
Just curious.
You know that machine they use for the lottery where the balls bounce about inside a glass container, we were something like that. Tactically random.
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Decisions didn't go for us but it was a tired, lethargic performance. As I'm in a good mood I'll put it down to a tough game mid week and a number of injuries.
I am starting to get concerned by Benteke, however. His confidence has deserted him and without that he looks a shadow of the player he was the second part of last season.
The continued lack of form of Benteke is a massive worry. If he is on form it makes us a totally different side attacking wise.
There will be a collective sigh and roar across the Villa world; fans, coaches and players when he scores again. The players will visibly grow a foot.
I just hope for most of them it's not a third left foot!
Baddum bish.
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I take it Tonev did not play well... I would like to see players in their normal role next game, so perhaps Guzan - Lowton, Vlaar, Clark, Luna - Westwood, KEA/Sylla - Albrighton, Helenius/Tonev, Gabby - Benteke/Kozak in a 4-2-3-1. From what I read, Albrighton deserves a chance ahead of Weimann. And Helenius or Tonev behind the main striker.
And someone else than Westwood with the set pieces.
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Benteke reminds me of the boxer Danny Williams. When things were going well Williams looked a very good heavyweight indeed.
When the confidence waned Williams looked awful.
Benteke looked as if he wanted to be elsewhere today.
We missed Kozak.
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I take it Tonev did not play well... I would like to see players in their normal role next game, so perhaps Guzan - Lowton, Vlaar, Clark, Luna - Westwood, KEA/Sylla - Albrighton, Helenius/Tonev, Gabby - Benteke/Kozak in a 4-2-3-1. From what I read, Albrighton deserves a chance ahead of Weimann. And Helenius or Tonev behind the main striker.
And someone else than Westwood with the set pieces.
Tonev did little when he came on , but in honesty the team played so poorly it was hard for him to change things - particularly poor were Westwood, Weimann, and bacuna .
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Decisions didn't go for us but it was a tired, lethargic performance. As I'm in a good mood I'll put it down to a tough game mid week and a number of injuries.
I am starting to get concerned by Benteke, however. His confidence has deserted him and without that he looks a shadow of the player he was the second part of last season.
The continued lack of form of Benteke is a massive worry. If he is on form it makes us a totally different side attacking wise.
There will be a collective sigh and roar across the Villa world; fans, coaches and players when he scores again. The players will visibly grow a foot.
I just hope for most of them it's not a third left foot!
Baddum bish.
Unless of course they all grow a left foot like Sid Cowans
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That all went pretty well then.
I'll concede that we aren't quite Arsenal and won't be for a couple of months yet but if Lerner can divert his attention away from whatever else he's currently fucking up and hands over some cash then a couple of further purchases from Chesterfield and Crewe should put us back on track. Merry Christmas one and all.
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I haven't seen the match today and only got the chance to listen to occasional snippets on the car radio. A brief, constructive synopsis would be appreciated. Or a link to highlights as I cannot find any yet.
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Watching Everton, their loans of Delefou and Barry have been totally inspired. Barry is just the type we need to give experience and Delefou is just the sort we could do with to open up a game. Inspired loan deals by them. It is a market we have to look at to help bring the young players through. They will mature, they will improve, but it was noticeable today the only really experienced leader in the side was missing.
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I haven't seen the match today and only got the chance to listen to occasional snippets on the car radio. A brief, constructive synopsis would be appreciated. Or a link to highlights as I cannot find any yet.
In terms of passing and control it was a lot of the same from previous weeks. We didn't create too many chances. Benteke is playing like Ian Olney, Berbatov played like the very good Berbatov and not the invisible one, they got a really soft penalty, we were denied a really good one. Westwood and Bacuna had very poor games. We really missed Ron Vlaar.
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We were shit. The ref skanked us twice at least, but doesn't change we were shit. Bacuna was really really shit as was Weimann. And Benteke didn't cover himself in glory again. Delph got booked so is out the manure game.
I await a call from the beeb to go professional.
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Thank you.
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I haven't seen the match today and only got the chance to listen to occasional snippets on the car radio. A brief, constructive synopsis would be appreciated. Or a link to highlights as I cannot find any yet.
Early doors it was in truth even, we had a couple of really good chances that Benteke spurned. They go in, we are on the way to a result, but we then gave away a really poor goal that Guzan and Bacuna should share blame for. We got forward and won a couple of corners, from one they broke. A brilliant flicked ball from Berbatov got one of theirs behind us, Bacuna caught him, but the guy essentially backed into Bacuna (leaving the ball) and won a penalty Dean was itching to give. Berbatov scored. We then missed a 3rd great chance just before half time. Tonev came on, what little shape we had went completely and we were very poor second half, looking likely to conced a 3rd in all truth, but then Gabby had a great shout for a pen that was not given by Dean (shock) and we had a brilliant chance when Weiman and Tonev seemed to get in each others way. Another penalty appeal for handball was turned down, but a goal would have flattered us to be honest. Benteke started well but visible lost confidence and never looked up for it after that. Lack of movement and confidence going forwards hurts the midfield options too. Very frustrating day all round, and Berbatov showed us the type of creativity we desperately lack.
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We were shit. Very shit. We won't get lucky all the time like we have been against some teams (Man City and Southampton (especially this game, we were awful and deserved to be beat)).
After watching this rubbish, I worry about whether we'll be once again worrying about potential relegation come the end of the season.
I can't believe how little we pass the ball. I have seen these players do it, so know they can do it. Whether it's a confidence thing or they're not instructed to pass it, but it's ridiculous.
No idea what Weimann was doing today and Bacuna simply is not a right-back and persistently playing him there won't change it.
Awful. Something needs to change and fast because it's not good enough.
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Lowton needs to come back in at RB with Bacuna moving into midfield. Delph, Sylla and Bacuna as our 3. I'd even bring Albrighton back in for Weimann who has been terrible all season.
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Goals (http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/fulham-2-aston-villa-0-alternative-all-goals-clip/)
Steve bloody Sidwell. Coolly-taken penalty, though. Did Guzan go too early?
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Bacuna is not a full back.
Herd is not a centre back (I dunno what is).
Baker is not a full back.
El-Ahmadi is not a premier league footballer.
Lambert made a mess of it today.
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Too many players had absolute mares (Bacuna, Westwood, Weimann - I could go on) and were not good enough to carry anyone. They looked knackered too.
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They did look like 90 minutes of sheer war like effort in the week left them done today.
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I haven't seen the match today and only got the chance to listen to occasional snippets on the car radio. A brief, constructive synopsis would be appreciated. Or a link to highlights as I cannot find any yet.
In terms of passing and control it was a lot of the same from previous weeks. We didn't create too many chances. Benteke is playing like Ian Olney, Berbatov played like the very good Berbatov and not the invisible one, they got a really soft penalty, we were denied a really good one. Westwood and Bacuna had very poor games. We really missed Ron Vlaar.
Oh,and by the way Weimann didnt play...but he did!
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What a typical dumb bloody interview. The manager clearly wants to dodge the poor performance and focus on the referee so the interviewer lets him by spending ages talking about the penalty decisions and the Berbatov-Herd non-event.
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Lets speak my mind a little more then. I found it depressing how many posters were glorying in the fact that we were so shite on the ball against Soton. I found it very depressing in fact, and all this 'there's no right way to play the game' etc. Anybody concerned about how bad we actually were got the whole 'we scored three times' thrown in their face.
Football of course is about points accumulated but over the course of a season, teams who struggle with the ball will generally be under pressure more and therefore concede more goals. You might get away with it six or seven times a season and that can push you into mid-table. But that shouldn't be enough. We should be striving to get back with the big boys and to that the whole culture of the club has got to change.
Fulham didn't let us 'smash and grab' and instead played us off the park.
I agree. It's why I always smile when people say it's a sign of a good team that they can play badly and still win and get three points. Yes, perhaps that's true for one or two of the top teams, but down at our level it usually means you're pretty poor, got away with it, and will get found out sooner or later. As tended to happen with MON as the season wore on...though tiredness due to lack of squad rotation was clearly a factor there
And that's another consequence. When you don't play with the ball you tire chasing the team that has it. Against Southampton we grabbed three goals and gave them over 70% possession. Is it any wonder we were tired today? There's a reason top sides play possession football so again, I feel the philosophy has to change. I'd rather watch us play football every week than marvel six or seven times a season at how we got a smash and grab.
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What a typical dumb bloody interview. The manager clearly wants to dodge the poor performance and focus on the referee so the interviewer lets him by spending ages talking about the penalty decisions and the Berbatov-Herd non-event.
He's never going to properly admit that, but in the longer interview on the OS he does say more than he usually does. My beef is if he's so concerned about not upsetting the fragile mindset of a young dressing room, then buy a few old leaders that can take it on the chin. That and they can give it and motivate while on the pitch.
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Bacuna is not a full back.
Herd is not a centre back (I dunno what is).
Baker is not a full back.
El-Ahmadi is not a premier league footballer.
Lambert made a mess of it today.
Lambert is not a Premier league manager. Win % just under 29.
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Goals (http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/fulham-2-aston-villa-0-alternative-all-goals-clip/)
Steve bloody Sidwell. Coolly-taken penalty, though. Did Guzan go too early?
He was cabbaged.
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Stats for Villa managers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Aston_Villa_F.C._managers)
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We haven't done anything other than take punts on Championship or less quality players for the last 2 years.
The problem is that those that were shite (KEA, Sylla, Bennett) are still shite, those that were good (Benteke, Westwood, Lowton, Weimann) are playing like they are shite & the players we've bought are either shite (Tonev, Hellnius) or it's too early to say (Kozak, Bacuna, but in all honesty they are probably shite too). Only Guzan, Vlar, Gabby, Delph & possible Clarke look anywhere near good or consistent enough.
It says everything you need to know about the quality of our club that KEA is anywhere near the squad, never mind a regular starter.
Aston Villa deserve better than what Lerner is turning us into.
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What a typical dumb bloody interview. The manager clearly wants to dodge the poor performance and focus on the referee so the interviewer lets him by spending ages talking about the penalty decisions and the Berbatov-Herd non-event.
He's never going to properly admit that, but in the longer interview on the OS he does say more than he usually does. My beef is if he's so concerned about not upsetting the fragile mindset of a young dressing room, then buy a few old leaders that can take it on the chin. That and they can give it and motivate while on the pitch.
Well, he's already got Hutton on Ł60k a week training with the stiffs. I can't believe that he would not do better than the current makeshift arrangement.
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I haven't seen the match today and only got the chance to listen to occasional snippets on the car radio.
You lucky bugger !!
It was horrendous. Guzan and Delph (and maybe Gabby) versus Fulham (and the Refs)
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Stats for Villa managers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Aston_Villa_F.C._managers)
Gregory's is very healthy, and over 190 games too. Was a different era then though.
ETA - good to see TSM confirmed as the worst
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Are you a Premier League team getting spanked every week? Out of form and generally on your arse? Never fear, a fixture against Aston Villa is always around the corner. Coming next, an out of sorts Man Utd.
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We haven't done anything other than take punts on Championship or less quality players for the last 2 years.
The problem is that those that were shite (KEA, Sylla, Bennett) are still shite, those that were good (Benteke, Westwood, Lowton, Weimann) are playing like they are shite & the players we've bought are either shite (Tonev, Hellnius) or it's too early to say (Kozak, Bacuna, but in all honesty they are probably shite too). Only Guzan, Vlar, Gabby, Delph & possible Clarke look anywhere near good or consistent enough.
It says everything you need to know about the quality of our club that KEA is anywhere near the squad, never mind a regular starter.
Aston Villa deserve better than what Lerner is turning us into.
Hear Hear. Becoming perennial stragglers. When, as an Aston Villa fan, you find yourself delighted to see us in tenth you know something has gone badly wrong. There was a time being tenth was a disappointment as a villa fan.
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Who has said they are delighted with 10th? You don't half make some stuff up to help your point of view.
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If you devide the league teams into these categories:
Lucky if you get anything
Tricky
Winnable
Sadly we are now on everyone's winnable list
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Bacuna is not a full back.
Herd is not a centre back (I dunno what is).
Baker is not a full back.
El-Ahmadi is not a premier league footballer.
Lambert made a mess of it today.
I'll take the above and add a 'this 4-3-3' obsession is no longer working. The midfield with 3 playing narrow is completely dire, and we're carrying a passenger in Weimann when he's picked this season.
Put Bacuna or Albrighton to the right of a midfield four, stick Lowton back where he should be (and he can push up as and when) and leave Gabby and Benteke loose up top. Hopefully the added width will help them out immensely.
And above all else, stop fucking hoofing it long. It's meat and drink to experienced central defenders and does none of our forwards any service at all.
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Shit again. Probably the 10th or so time this season already. Lambert is no good, I've said it since last Christmas and nothing has happened to change my mind. Most of his Ł43m quids worth of signings aren't worth a shiny shit either, he's hiding behind the Benteke gem.
Westwood
Bacuna
Tonev
Bennett
Sylla
Helenius
Bowery
El Ahamadi
All add nothing.
I'm sick of us being shit, don't kid yourself, we are shit right now. I'm sick of signing unheard of shit and im sick of making excuses up for why this week we wasn't any good, again.
We cannot pass the ball, we can barely control a ball. The better players all we already at the club and this scotch clown has frittered away the cash we had to spend. He can go fuck himself, the dour, boring, dull, unimaginative, excuse making twat.
I'm sick of them. And i'm sick of Lambore especially.
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Just got back from my annual game.....
Just utter shit, Southampton we got away with it, today we got what we deserved. Made a team in the bottom three look really decent.
We will need to improve
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Who has said they are delighted with 10th? You don't half make some stuff up to help your point of view.
I'm not making anything up I was speaking for myself. I said as an Aston Villa fan when you see yourself being delighted with tenth you know something has gone wrong. I'm making a point that the expectations have shifted considerably and used myself as a source.
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Bacuna is not a full back.
Herd is not a centre back (I dunno what is).
Baker is not a full back.
El-Ahmadi is not a premier league footballer.
Lambert made a mess of it today.
I'll take the above and add a 'this 4-3-3' obsession is no longer working. The midfield with 3 playing narrow is completely dire, and we're carrying a passenger in Weimann when he's picked this season.
Put Bacuna or Albrighton to the right of a midfield four, stick Lowton back where he should be (and he can push up as and when) and leave Gabby and Benteke loose up top. Hopefully the added width will help them out immensely.
And above all else, stop fucking hoofing it long. It's meat and drink to experienced central defenders and does none of our forwards any service at all.
I'm not sure it was 433 today to be honest. I think Weimann was supposed be playing on the hole in a diamond formation. KEA seemed to be our right-most midfielder.
Whatever it was, it was a mess. We're gonna be shambolic until Vlaar returns, that much is obvious
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I gave up watching at half time and it sounds like the team gave up playing too.
We've failed to score in 7 out of 15. On average we only manage 3.4 shots on target per game, and on average we only have 43% possession....
Most worryingly 3 out of our next 4 are at home and we hardly ever score at Villa Park, let alone win. I know we're 10th and everything but if you can't score against the likes of Fulham and Sunderland that suggests you have big problems. We could easily get pulled into a relegation battle again and quite frankly that isn't good enough.
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We were shit. End ov.
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We were shit. End ov.
Short , sweet and to the point sadly :(
Time to put this game behind us and look towards the utd clash , we are still 10th and need to hope that Vlaar may be back for that one .
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The walk from Hammersmith Broadway to the ground was the highlight of the day.
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By far our worst performance this season,made a poor fulham team look decent. Need a couple of experienced players come January but I can't see lambert buying any.
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By far our worst performance this season,made a poor fulham team look decent. Need a couple of experienced players come January but I can't see lambert buying any.
Neither can I , I expect similar age and inexperience at this level with potential , but we need players for now not the future.
I'd like to see an experienced defender on loan - interesting to see lambert mentioning Fulham the other day and saying how experienced they are and it guarantees nothing - well today the men gave the boys a bloody lesson .
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When is Vlaar coming back?
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Lamberts major failing is allowing 2 seasons to start with the most ineffective and lightweight midfield I have seen at the Villa. Sidwell was better than all of our midfield today and he is totally shit.
He has had more than enough time to address this. So he buys Tonev who is just awful.
I am not ready to write Lambert off yet but he really does need to show that he has got some idea about how to assemble a team that is better than another relation flirt while playing dreadfull football
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Absolutely bang on. Remember Lambert thought we were outstanding against Soton and wasn't interested in the stats. We were lucky, very lucky, to win that game. We scored great goals yes but we can't delude ourselves that the performance deserved the win.
I can't see what Lambert is bringing to the table. If 18 months of management of Villa simply brings backs-to-the-wall counter attacking, lump it forward football then we have got to say that this isn't good enough. Where's the plan, the strategy, the progression?
Martinez at Everton and Pochettino at Soton have shown a desire to reshape the play of their teams and they look great.
We are are an opportunistic, nick a result team playing leaden football and there's nothing in what Lambert says to suggest that he's got a better vision than this. It's depressing. Lets speak my mind a little more then. I found it depressing how many posters were glorying in the fact that we were so shite on the ball against Soton. I found it very depressing in fact, and all this 'there's no right way to play the game' etc. Anybody concerned about how bad we actually were got the whole 'we scored three times' thrown in their face.
Football of course is about points accumulated but over the course of a season, teams who struggle with the ball will generally be under pressure more and therefore concede more goals. You might get away with it six or seven times a season and that can push you into mid-table. But that shouldn't be enough. We should be striving to get back with the big boys and to that the whole culture of the club has got to change.
Fulham didn't let us 'smash and grab' and instead played us off the park.
I agree. It's why I always smile when people say it's a sign of a good team that they can play badly and still win and get three points. Yes, perhaps that's true for one or two of the top teams, but down at our level it usually means you're pretty poor, got away with it, and will get found out sooner or later. As tended to happen with MON as the season wore on...though tiredness due to lack of squad rotation was clearly a factor there
And that's another consequence. When you don't play with the ball you tire chasing the team that has it. Against Southampton we grabbed three goals and gave them over 70% possession. Is it any wonder we were tired today? There's a reason top sides play possession football so again, I feel the philosophy has to change. I'd rather watch us play football every week than marvel six or seven times a season at how we got a smash and grab.
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Shit again. Probably the 10th or so time this season already. Lambert is no good, I've said it since last Christmas and nothing has happened to change my mind. Most of his Ł43m quids worth of signings aren't worth a shiny shit either, he's hiding behind the Benteke gem.
Westwood
Bacuna
Tonev
Bennett
Sylla
Helenius
Bowery
El Ahamadi
All add nothing.
I'm sick of us being shit, don't kid yourself, we are shit right now. I'm sick of signing unheard of shit and im sick of making excuses up for why this week we wasn't any good, again.
We cannot pass the ball, we can barely control a ball. The better players all we already at the club and this scotch clown has frittered away the cash we had to spend. He can go fuck himself, the dour, boring, dull, unimaginative, excuse making twat.
I'm sick of them. And i'm sick of Lambore especially.
I'm in this camp. I said we were boring on the thread asking that question and I stick by that. I also agree with Irish Villain that sights now seem to have been set so low that 10th is some sort of success and 8th would be positively cracking! We are also a team that everyone now identifies as a good chance for 3 points. I'm sick and tired of it too, week after week, for the most part with the odd very unconvincing win thrown in. I didn't bother going to Fulham or Southampton, games I would always have gone to in the past. Yes, I had other things on, but in truth I could have gone if I'd really tried. However, I refuse to pay upwards of Ł50 for this sort of dross anymore. Oh, and sure, if I wait long enough, maybe some of these youngsters will come good and then one of the big teams can sign them. But, of course, I should be contented, because we are Aston Villa and we do things the right way and we're all real gentlemen and we discovered football blah blah blah. We're even too nice to contest shit penalty decisions any more, just a shrug of the shoulder. Next Sunday I'm in London for a Christmas day out with my family and I'm not really that bothered to be missing out on seeing the Man Utd game
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See once again we've performed poorly, difference from Wednesday is we didn't get the goals. Our performances have been on the decline for a while now and it needs to be addressed, we don't carry much of a threat anymore. Equally worrying Vlaar has been out for a game and a half and we've conceded 4 goals.
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If you devide the league teams into these categories:
Lucky if you get anything
Tricky
Winnable
Sadly we are now on everyone's winnable list
Who come the previous 5 teams we played couldn't beat us? O.k on balance of performance probably two of those should've won (Sunderland and WBA) but the reality is we're a mid table team.
A mid table team will win some, draw some and lose some more. We'll pick up enough points from those below us to not have any relegation battle this season but frustratingly just when we have a chance to kick on after a good result we play and lose like today.
I'd be happy with top 10 this season, it's looking like it will just be sneaking into 10th but still it's small progress. I do have my doubts with this current policy when we can really challenge the top 6 again (which Everton and Newcastle are doing). At some point we will have to sign some better players and shock horror these guys will be earning decent wages at the clubs they're at.
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Shit again. Probably the 10th or so time this season already. Lambert is no good, I've said it since last Christmas and nothing has happened to change my mind. Most of his Ł43m quids worth of signings aren't worth a shiny shit either, he's hiding behind the Benteke gem.
Westwood
Bacuna
Tonev
Bennett
Sylla
Helenius
Bowery
El Ahamadi
All add nothing.
I'm sick of us being shit, don't kid yourself, we are shit right now. I'm sick of signing unheard of shit and im sick of making excuses up for why this week we wasn't any good, again.
We cannot pass the ball, we can barely control a ball. The better players all we already at the club and this scotch clown has frittered away the cash we had to spend. He can go fuck himself, the dour, boring, dull, unimaginative, excuse making twat.
I'm sick of them. And i'm sick of Lambore especially.
I'm in this camp. I said we were boring on the thread asking that question and I stick by that. I also agree with Irish Villain that sights now seem to have been set so low that 10th is some sort of success and 8th would be positively cracking! We are also a team that everyone now identifies as a good chance for 3 points. I'm sick and tired of it too, week after week, for the most part with the odd very unconvincing win thrown in. I didn't bother going to Fulham or Southampton, games I would always have gone to in the past. Yes, I had other things on, but in truth I could have gone if I'd really tried. However, I refuse to pay upwards of Ł50 for this sort of dross anymore. Oh, and sure, if I wait long enough, maybe some of these youngsters will come good and then one of the big teams can sign them. But, of course, I should be contented, because we are Aston Villa and we do things the right way and we're all real gentlemen and we discovered football blah blah blah. We're even too nice to contest shit penalty decisions any more, just a shrug of the shoulder. Next Sunday I'm in London for a Christmas day out with my family and I'm not really that bothered to be missing out on seeing the Man Utd game
I watched the way we ended the season and had high hopes we had turned the corner - however after a bright start we have in recent weeks played some awful turgid football - I think lambert has had a lot of goodwill and was lucky he followed Mcleish - i sense now the honeymoon is over and patience is wearing thin .
The next 2 months are huge!
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If you devide the league teams into these categories:
Lucky if you get anything
Tricky
Winnable
Sadly we are now on everyone's winnable list
Who come the previous 5 teams we played couldn't beat us? O.k on balance of performance probably two of those should've won (Sunderland and WBA) but the reality is we're a mid table team.
A mid table team will win some, draw some and lose some more. We'll pick up enough points from those below us to not have any relegation battle this season but frustratingly just when we have a chance to kick on after a good result we play and lose like today.
I'd be happy with top 10 this season, it's looking like it will just be sneaking into 10th but still it's small progress. I do have my doubts with this current policy when we can really challenge the top 6 again (which Everton and Newcastle are doing). At some point we will have to sign some better players and shock horror these guys will be earning decent wages at the clubs they're at.
Not sure we can consider ourselves as a mid table team, we are a bad run away from fighting it out down the bottom and bsed on the last 3 performances we are more than capable of stinging some bad results together.
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Most worrying is the brand of football we play. Square pass x5, Hooooooofff !
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People can blame Benteke and the other forwards but until the midfield is sorted no one will score goals. Delph excepted, we are devoid of drive, presence, skill or ability to dominate a game. The fact is that we were bossed around by Parker and Sidwell and had no answer. If you don't get a grip in a game then chance will be hard to come by and then strikers will look disinterested as they suffer goal droughts. We need to invest in a proper player who can come in and transform the middle of the park. Will it happen? Probably not!
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What a load of utter bollocks and my record still stands of not seeing us win away this millennium
Keep away from Everton inFeb, I'm there for the weekend.
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Most worrying is the brand of football we play. Square pass x5, Hooooooofff !
You're talking out your arse.
There's no way we can put fives passes together.
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We were shit. The ref skanked us twice at least, but doesn't change we were shit. Bacuna was really really shit as was Weimann. And Benteke didn't cover himself in glory again. Delph got booked so is out the manure game.
I await a call from the beeb to go professional.
That about sums it up for me.
I await a call from Lambert to see which position he wants me to play against Man Ure. I may be nearly 100 and on crutches but doubt I could do worse than some of our lot today.
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We were shit. The ref skanked us twice at least, but doesn't change we were shit. Bacuna was really really shit as was Weimann. And Benteke didn't cover himself in glory again. Delph got booked so is out the manure game.
I await a call from the beeb to go professional.
That about sums it up for me.
I await a call from Lambert to see which position he wants me to play against Man Ure. I may be nearly 100 and on crutches but doubt I could do worse than some of our lot today.
Centre half please pauline with the mercurial dc5 as your rock alongside :)
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We were shit. The ref skanked us twice at least, but doesn't change we were shit. Bacuna was really really shit as was Weimann. And Benteke didn't cover himself in glory again. Delph got booked so is out the manure game.
I await a call from the beeb to go professional.
That about sums it up for me.
I await a call from Lambert to see which position he wants me to play against Man Ure. I may be nearly 100 and on crutches but doubt I could do worse than some of our lot today.
This is a great post sums up the level of comment, in the main, to be found on this thread. A little perspective would not go amiss from a lot of the posters on here. Sunderland for instance may be shit, may have lost 6-1 at Villa last year and so will easily roll over. Or maybe turn up intending to be very solid and give nothing to avoid a repeat of last year? Fulham with a new man in at home have everything to prove, perhaps? We are clearly a developing team, there are issues and injuries and we are just not going to win comfortably every week. It's football. I didn't see an awful performance today just agame where luck, the referee and a couple of individual errors went against us. Fulham weren't that great but we weren't that awful in a keenly contested and very even for the most part, game. The worst thing was Delph's soft 5th booking but I still dont think Manure will roll us over easily next time out and if anything this defeat might propel us on to that. Up the Villa!
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How quickly things can change! Against Southampton just a few days ago most of the team played well. Today, nobody did apart from Guzan. The passing was appalling and Westwood's corners and free-kicks were straight out of the Barry Bannan manual (except that Bannan's got getter since he left us). Weimann was completely anonymous. As for Benteke - if he wants a big move in January he's hardly putting himself in the shop window.
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Surely Grealish and Carruthers are better than Tonev? Albrighton is much better as well. Lambert is clueless, end of!
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We pick ourselves up and we are woeful again.
We were stuck on a number 14 bus for about one and a half hours after the game (bloody Christmas shoppers. Don't you people have anything better to do this time of year?). Read the above and was laughing that loudly was getting some strange stares from other passengers. Thanks for brightening up a very tedious bus journey after that awful game.
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I didn't see an awful performance today just agame where luck, the referee and a couple of individual errors went against us. Fulham weren't that great but we weren't that awful in a keenly contested and very even for the most part, game.
I tend to look on the brighter side of the Lambert regime, but I struggle to see us as anything much better than awful today. We hardly managed to string a few passes together, threatened goal how many times - Benteke's header (which was wide anyway), and his shot on 91 mins or so, but what else?
When Fulham went 2-0 up, I thought they looked far more likely to score the third goal of the game than we did.
The referee was awful, yes, but he wasn't the reason we spent most of the game lumping the ball long at Benteke and hoping for the best.
I like said, I tend to look on the bright side, and we are not in a relegation scrap, which you would think we were to listen to some, but that today was a pathetically poor performance.
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We have been riding our luck massively in a lot of games this season which is why I am the same as Irish Villain and also get excited about being tenth, however that is not where I expect us to finish, this squad is marginally better than last season so I expect us to end up 13th/14th so slightly better for the 2nd year running, the improvement is painfully slow but I for now will stick by Lambert.
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How quickly things can change! Against Southampton just a few days ago most of the team played well. Today, nobody did apart from Guzan. The passing was appalling and Westwood's corners and free-kicks were straight out of the Barry Bannan manual (except that Bannan's got getter since he left us). Weimann was completely anonymous. As for Benteke - if he wants a big move in January he's hardly putting himself in the shop window.
We did well on Wednesday, yes, but let's not forget, on Wednesday our passing was truly abysmal, too. The first time in any of the top five European leagues that a side has managed to complete less than 50% of its passes in a match this season, apparently. The passing was awful today, too, but it's been going that way for a while now, we've just been either getting away with it, or making the most of the chances we do create (Southampton).
If we continue to give up possession of the ball so easily and to pass so poorly, we're going to have a lot more days like today. How many times today did we find ourselves in possession, in space, only for the player to look up and belt it aimlessly up-field?
Horrible to watch. I don't know what scares me most - our players being unable to do much better than that, or Lambert actually wanting them to do that.
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We were shit. The ref skanked us twice at least, but doesn't change we were shit. Bacuna was really really shit as was Weimann. And Benteke didn't cover himself in glory again. Delph got booked so is out the manure game.
I await a call from the beeb to go professional.
That about sums it up for me.
I await a call from Lambert to see which position he wants me to play against Man Ure. I may be nearly 100 and on crutches but doubt I could do worse than some of our lot today.
This is a great post sums up the level of comment, in the main, to be found on this thread. A little perspective would not go amiss from a lot of the posters on here. Sunderland for instance may be shit, may have lost 6-1 at Villa last year and so will easily roll over. Or maybe turn up intending to be very solid and give nothing to avoid a repeat of last year? Fulham with a new man in at home have everything to prove, perhaps? We are clearly a developing team, there are issues and injuries and we are just not going to win comfortably every week. It's football. I didn't see an awful performance today just agame where luck, the referee and a couple of individual errors went against us. Fulham weren't that great but we weren't that awful in a keenly contested and very even for the most part, game. The worst thing was Delph's soft 5th booking but I still dont think Manure will roll us over easily next time out and if anything this defeat might propel us on to that. Up the Villa!
Can't agree at all with that , keenly contested fairly even, not that bad ?
I thought we were dreadful and very lucky to lose only 2-0 - Fulham were the better team by a mile .
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How quickly things can change! Against Southampton just a few days ago most of the team played well. Today, nobody did apart from Guzan. The passing was appalling and Westwood's corners and free-kicks were straight out of the Barry Bannan manual (except that Bannan's got getter since he left us). Weimann was completely anonymous. As for Benteke - if he wants a big move in January he's hardly putting himself in the shop window.
The result on Wednesday was good, the performance definitely wasn't. Today was a similar performance without a couple of counter attacks.
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How quickly things can change! Against Southampton just a few days ago most of the team played well. Today, nobody did apart from Guzan. The passing was appalling and Westwood's corners and free-kicks were straight out of the Barry Bannan manual (except that Bannan's got getter since he left us). Weimann was completely anonymous. As for Benteke - if he wants a big move in January he's hardly putting himself in the shop window.
We did well on Wednesday, yes, but let's not forget, on Wednesday our passing was truly abysmal, too. The first time in any of the top five European leagues that a side has managed to complete less than 50% of its passes in a match this season, apparently. The passing was awful today, too, but it's been going that way for a while now, we've just been either getting away with it, or making the most of the chances we do create (Southampton).
If we continue to give up possession of the ball so easily and to pass so poorly, we're going to have a lot more days like today. How many times today did we find ourselves in possession, in space, only for the player to look up and belt it aimlessly up-field?
Horrible to watch. I don't know what scares me most - our players being unable to do much better than that, or Lambert actually wanting them to do that.
The latter definitely, if this is Lambert's plan then we're set for ruin. I really hope it's the players struggling, because it's really poor.
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Some people seem to think we're making progress - we're not! Shocking results at home in particular. We're going backwards with this regime. We've put up with this shit since MON walked in 2010.
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Tonev looks terrible, like a poor mans Holman.
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How quickly things can change! Against Southampton just a few days ago most of the team played well. Today, nobody did apart from Guzan. The passing was appalling and Westwood's corners and free-kicks were straight out of the Barry Bannan manual (except that Bannan's got getter since he left us). Weimann was completely anonymous. As for Benteke - if he wants a big move in January he's hardly putting himself in the shop window.
We were embarrassing against Southampton and 99 times out of 100 we would've been hammered (see also Man City). Add to this we were appalling against Cardiff and Sunderland, not to mention Spurs and Newcastle.
Based on how last season ended I was really looking forward to this season. However, it's turning out to be pretty crap as per usual.
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I also find it very frustrating to see Bowery on the bench every bloody week. No hard feelings but he should be nowhere near the premier league.
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We were embarrassing against Southampton and 99 times out of 100 we would've been hammered (see also Man City).
This gets missed a lot, I think. We did well to get three points from that Man City game, but that first half was the most embarrassingly one-sided half of football I have seen in a long time.
I'd rather we were 16th than 10th at the moment but showing some sign of the football improving, but whilst the results haven't been too bad, the football has been utterly horrible to watch.
I'm also starting to find the whole "only one place behind Man United" thing that gets trotted out a bit to be a bit small time, as well as utterly meaningless.
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We were embarrassing against Southampton and 99 times out of 100 we would've been hammered (see also Man City).
This gets missed a lot, I think. We did well to get three points from that Man City game, but that first half was the most embarrassingly one-sided half of football I have seen in a long time.
I'd rather we were 16th than 10th at the moment but showing some sign of the football improving, but whilst the results haven't been too bad, the football has been utterly horrible to watch.
I'm also starting to find the whole "only one place behind Man United" thing that gets trotted out a bit to be a bit small time, as well as utterly meaningless.
Agree 100% the basking in the glory of the Southampton and Citeh results is ok, but it's short term thinking at its worst. We won't get good results consistently until we start playing well and keeping the ball. Also we won't be remotely entertaining.
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I for one would like to see a change of personnel just to see what they can do. Jack Grealish,Carruthers and in particular Callum Robinson should be on the bench. Something must be wrong when a player who is totally out of any kind of form can get picked week after week
That player is Andreas Weimann. Not his fault,of course, when Lambert selects him, but it is most certainly our manager's fault!
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We were embarrassing against Southampton and 99 times out of 100 we would've been hammered (see also Man City).
I'd rather we were 16th than 10th at the moment but showing some sign of the football improving, but whilst the results haven't been too bad, the football has been utterly horrible to watch.
For me personally, I couldn't disagree more. I'll take comfortably mid table over threatening relegation any day. Last season everyone was saying the same.
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We were embarrassing against Southampton and 99 times out of 100 we would've been hammered (see also Man City).
This gets missed a lot, I think. We did well to get three points from that Man City game, but that first half was the most embarrassingly one-sided half of football I have seen in a long time.
I'd rather we were 16th than 10th at the moment but showing some sign of the football improving, but whilst the results haven't been too bad, the football has been utterly horrible to watch.
I'm also starting to find the whole "only one place behind Man United" thing that gets trotted out a bit to be a bit small time, as well as utterly meaningless.
Agree 100% the basking in the glory of the Southampton and Citeh results is ok, but it's short term thinking at its worst. We won't get good results consistently until we start playing well and keeping the ball. Also we won't be remotely entertaining.
Keep playing this type of stuff and as well as the above, our players will be absolutely knackered. If we spend entire matches chasing the ball, like we are doing, then we shouldn't be surprised when things start to get worse, not better. It's not like we have the squad to rest players, either.
I think Lambert's crap, to be honest.
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We were embarrassing against Southampton and 99 times out of 100 we would've been hammered (see also Man City).
I'd rather we were 16th than 10th at the moment but showing some sign of the football improving, but whilst the results haven't been too bad, the football has been utterly horrible to watch.
For me personally, I couldn't disagree more. I'll take comfortably mid table over threatening relegation any day. Last season everyone was saying the same.
I agree, I'd rather be 10th and playing crap that 16th and entertaining - but obviously the aim would be to be playing good entertaining football and getting results to match.
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We were embarrassing against Southampton and 99 times out of 100 we would've been hammered (see also Man City).
This gets missed a lot, I think. We did well to get three points from that Man City game, but that first half was the most embarrassingly one-sided half of football I have seen in a long time...
The Man City thing though is par for their season, we're not the only side who has spent a load of the game watching them go through their party pieces only to turn them over.
If we were consistently good we'd be near the top of the table; consistently bad and we'd be near the bottom. We're neither and our league position reflects that.
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I think General Charles Krulak is still on our board as a Non-Exec Director - what use is he? What input or decisions? zero! The leadership is a joke.
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We were embarrassing against Southampton and 99 times out of 100 we would've been hammered (see also Man City).
I'd rather we were 16th than 10th at the moment but showing some sign of the football improving, but whilst the results haven't been too bad, the football has been utterly horrible to watch.
For me personally, I couldn't disagree more. I'll take comfortably mid table over threatening relegation any day. Last season everyone was saying the same.
I agree, I'd rather be 10th and playing crap that 16th and entertaining - but obviously the aim would be to be playing good entertaining football and getting results to match.
"At the moment", not finishing there.
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I think one thing is certain. If Andi starts on Sunday then PL had lost the plot.
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I'd be quite satisfied to finish in our current position which represents progress results wise but I would hope that the quality of football will improve - We have a very loyal fan base and the home fans have been short changed for a while with the poor displays at villa park.
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I'd be quite satisfied to finish in our current position which represents progress results wise but I would hope that the quality of football will improve - We have a very loyal fan base and the home fans have been short changed for a while with the poor displays at villa park.
Next Sunday is a great opportunity to change this.
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We pick ourselves up and we are woeful again.
We were stuck on a number 14 bus for about one and a half hours after the game (bloody Christmas shoppers. Don't you people have anything better to do this time of year?). Read the above and was laughing that loudly was getting some strange stares from other passengers. Thanks for brightening up a very tedious bus journey after that awful game.
H&V has me guffawing loudly in many places (home, work, bog, waiting rooms...) so I am glad to have given something back to the community. :-):-
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We're papering over massive cracks to be honest.
The odd win here and there is giving false optimism to what is all intents and purposes a very poor season.
The buck must stop with the manager. He is the clueless one.
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We're papering over massive cracks to be honest.
The odd win here and there is giving false optimism to what is all intents and purposes a very poor season.
The buck must stop with the manager. He is the clueless one.
If we're very poor and every win is only papering over cracks then what does that make the teams below us? We're tenth. Not great, but not disastrous. It's getting a bit tedious to read from our own supporters that every win is lucky and every defeat means we're doomed.
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We're papering over massive cracks to be honest.
The odd win here and there is giving false optimism to what is all intents and purposes a very poor season.
The buck must stop with the manager. He is the clueless one.
If we're very poor and every win is only papering over cracks then what does that make the teams below us? We're tenth. Not great, but not disastrous. It's getting a bit tedious to read from our own supporters that every win is lucky and every defeat means we're doomed.
I'm not sure that's it, I don't think all our wins are lucky or that all defeats are a disaster. It's just our level of play and possession needs to improve for us to succeed long term.
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I can't for the life of me understand why "professional" players can not pass the Fucking ball to each other? Why can Westwood be allowed to take shit set piece after shit set piece? The amount of times we just punted it down the field in hope was an embarrassment, Bacuna is not a full back and I can't understand why he's constantly having to play there, very very poor. Not happy
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Also Weimann should not be playing. He offered absolutely nothing.
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It's getting a bit tedious to read from our own supporters that every win is lucky and every defeat means we're doomed.
It would be, if anyone was actually saying that. We got lucky against Albion, Sunderland and to an extent against Southampton, as well as playing some decent stuff ourselves in patches in those games. Let's face it, if we can only play well in patches we're going to need a lot of luck to win games.
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I know our football the majority of this season has been dire but overall results have been better, I measure progress by comparing this season to last season and we are currently 5 points better off than at this point than in the previous campaign and our goal difference is better by 9 goals, I want better play, better players who can affect games but until then I will take the stats above.
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We're papering over massive cracks to be honest.
The odd win here and there is giving false optimism to what is all intents and purposes a very poor season.
The buck must stop with the manager. He is the clueless one.
If we're very poor and every win is only papering over cracks then what does that make the teams below us? We're tenth. Not great, but not disastrous. It's getting a bit tedious to read from our own supporters that every win is lucky and every defeat means we're doomed.
I'm not sure that's it, I don't think all our wins are lucky or that all defeats are a disaster. It's just our level of play and possession needs to improve for us to succeed long term.
That's the point - long-term. Every successful manager I've seen us under has started off with some pretty dire football (with the exception of Ron Saunders, who struck gold with the forward line he inherited, and even then his first season back up was pretty uninspiring). They got it right eventually and Lambert should be given the chance as well. If we're still playing this badly next season I'll complain and if the result are worse I'll complain even louder but in the meantime let's accept what we are for the moment and not get so hysterical at every setback.
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I'm not saying Lambert's job should be under pressure at all, but he needs to show some evidence that he's aware that our football isn't working correctly for whatever reason.
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I'm not saying Lambert's job should be under pressure at all, but he needs to show some evidence that he's aware that our football isn't working correctly for whatever reason.
I agree completely.
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I can't for the life of me understand why "professional" players can not pass the Fucking ball to each other?
I thought my dad was posting on here when I read that.
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We're papering over massive cracks to be honest.
The odd win here and there is giving false optimism to what is all intents and purposes a very poor season.
The buck must stop with the manager. He is the clueless one.
If we're very poor and every win is only papering over cracks then what does that make the teams below us? We're tenth. Not great, but not disastrous. It's getting a bit tedious to read from our own supporters that every win is lucky and every defeat means we're doomed.
I'm not sure that's it, I don't think all our wins are lucky or that all defeats are a disaster. It's just our level of play and possession needs to improve for us to succeed long term.
That's the point - long-term. Every successful manager I've seen us under has started off with some pretty dire football (with the exception of Ron Saunders, who struck gold with the forward line he inherited, and even then his first season back up was pretty uninspiring). They got it right eventually and Lambert should be given the chance as well. If we're still playing this badly next season I'll complain and if the result are worse I'll complain even louder but in the meantime let's accept what we are for the moment and not get so hysterical at every setback.
I think there should be more of an improvement over the course of two seasons, personally, let alone getting into a third. If by the end of this season there has been no qualitative improvement at all, then I don't think there is ever going to be.
Unfortunately, I suspect the major problem we have is that too many of the players are not good enough. Where the fault lies with that, though, is the important bit.
Do we have so many underwhelming players because Lambert hasn't spent well, or is it because we're restricted to working within a very tight wage budget? If it is the latter, then I can't really imagine many managers doing any better.
I am very glad we're having this conversation with us in 10th place rather than the arse end of the table, but that doesn't change the fact that for very large chunks of this season, we have been as poor at passing the ball as any Villa team I've seen for a long time.
I also wonder whether we've bought into this counter attacking thing a bit too easily, as there's a really thin line between doing that well, and simply being a team who defend and hoof the ball upfield because they can't create anything else - which is what we looked like today.
At the end of the summer window, I was worried that we hadn't bought any players of higher quality or more experience than the ones we already had, and we are again starting to look like a team which needs some wiser heads in it. It's noticeable that with the player who is probably our most experienced head - Vlaar - gets injured, we fall to pieces.
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Went for the annual family trip and quite enjoyed it, certainly not as own beat as the consensus on this thread. The second goal was pivotal. They moaned at the ref a lot and we didn't. Thought Guzan, Delph, Clark and Gabby were great. Bacuna was out of position a few times. Never a pen though.
Chin up!
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What has Lowton done wrong !!! Bacuna was shocking his positional sense is appalling and his distribution is woeful. TBF he should be playing midfield as he is definitely not a full back. Lambert has signed players who are all much the same, we have no creativity and no one to come off the bench to change anything. If Tonev and Albrighton are the answer then we are in big trouble.
Whether we have sacrificed some attacking play to be more solid this season I don't know but it is awful to watch and unless we sign some quality rather than cheap hopefuls we are in for a long long season !!
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I can't for the life of me understand why "professional" players can not pass the Fucking ball to each other?
I thought my dad was posting on here when I read that.
Is you're dad clever as well then?
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I really can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading on here. Maybe I was watching a different match but in the first half I gelt we matched them and had the two best chances which last year he (Benteke) would have put away. Then we give away a softisimmo goal, foe which Bacuna was admittedly a disaster, but to be truthful so was Guzman (as Quinn insisted on calling him). But we came back strong and the penalty really killed us at that stage. Second half we were awful and that's my main criticism. When the chips are down the good teams keep patiently plugging away, believing in their systems and styles, but we tend to revert to hoofball and it never works (except against the Baggies but there you go). But overall we are not so bad as some on here are making out. Either of those Benteke chances go in, either of those penalties are given the way they should have been, and it's a different story. (I'm getting ready for the salvo now).
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I'm not saying Lambert's job should be under pressure at all, but he needs to show some evidence that he's aware that our football isn't working correctly for whatever reason.
I agree completely.
Thirded.
I had the guy down as stubborn up to now, but I'll confess I'm teetering on the edge of questioning his credentials right now.
That said, he deserves time. January is important and next summer more so. If money's tight, I'd rather he go against his ideals and take quality experience on loan instead on punting the same amount on a fee for a squad filler.
In other words, without stating the obvious, I think taking someone like Gareth Barry would benefit us more than say, (for example) another Helenius. It may be short term but I think the likes of Westwood would benefit greatly being alongside experience. Surely therefore we win both ways?
My worry, referring to my earlier point, is I fear Lambert is all consumingly determined with his crusade to champion young unknowns as proof he can see what the rest of us can't.
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In other words, without stating the obvious, I think taking someone like Gareth Barry would benefit us more than say, (for example) another Helenius.
I can understand why he bought Helenius if he sees him as one for the future (and he may be a brilliant prospect, I have no idea, we've hardly seen him). Same with Bowery, I guess.
I do think we need to start signing some players for now, though.
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I'm not saying Lambert's job should be under pressure at all, but he needs to show some evidence that he's aware that our football isn't working correctly for whatever reason.
I disagree. He needs to be under pressure, because pressure drives excellence. That's not to say I believe he should be in imminent danger of the sack, but I do think that both Lambert and some of the players (Weimann and Westwood especially) would benefit from a kick up the arse occasionally. It all seems a bit too comfortable in mediocrity.
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I'm not saying Lambert's job should be under pressure at all, but he needs to show some evidence that he's aware that our football isn't working correctly for whatever reason.
I disagree. He needs to be under pressure, because pressure drives excellence. That's not to say I believe he should be in imminent danger of the sack, but I do think that both Lambert and some of the players (Weimann and Westwood especially) would benefit from a kick up the arse occasionally. It all seems a bit too comfortable in mediocrity.
The Zen of Swain.
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The disappointment comes from the feeling that we are formulaic and devoid of any creativity .
Every corner is the same - crap delivery from Westwood - never short , never a near post flick on.
We are a counter attacking team that cannot break teams down. He has bought poorly and we are paying the consequences when it looked so simple to improve. An experienced head in midfield - a number 10 with creativity - would make a massive difference .
I am beginning to lose sight of his plan.
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Weimann's was an incredibly anonymous performance today, really, really poor.
On the flip side, I thought Chris Herd did quite well.
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Weimann's was an incredibly anonymous performance today, really, really poor.
On the flip side, I thought Chris Herd did quite well.
Agreed I do actually like Herd it just sometimes feels like he's made of glass
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Then we give away a softisimmo goal, foe which Bacuna was admittedly a disaster, but to be truthful so was Guzman (as Quinn insisted on calling him).
I think he was getting him mixed up with Swansea's Jonathan de Guzan.
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Still haven't seen us play well this season although in contrast some results have been good. Most of the 'edge of the seat' action comes from wondering if we are going to clear a dangerous situation rather than because of exciting attacking play.
We don't get wide often enough to cross ourselves but let the opponents cross with impunity from wide open spaces. Set piece delivery is rarely accurate let alone threatening; we readily cede possession and seldom press opponents. Players try, but generally lack skill and awareness and last ditch tackles and clearances bear witness to the panic created by players constantly being caught out of position.
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In the second half Delph gave a short pass to Westwood and ran forward into space for the return pass what did Westwood do he passed it backwards to a defender, that sums up our main problem, we can complain all we like about the pointless long balls to Benteke but what option can a defender do if the midfield keep passing the ball back to them and then stand still. Delph aside who i think has carried the side this season our midfield is diabolical, Westwood and Kea have no creativity. Benteke needs a goal, since the penalty miss he has lost confidence, credit to Gabby he looks the only forward we have who looks good enough. What does the manager do with all the dross he has bought we have so many players that clearly will never make the grade?
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In other words, without stating the obvious, I think taking someone like Gareth Barry would benefit us more than say, (for example) another Helenius.
I can understand why he bought Helenius if he sees him as one for the future (and he may be a brilliant prospect, I have no idea, we've hardly seen him). Same with Bowery, I guess.
I do think we need to start signing some players for now, though.
I agree Paulie, I think transfer opportunities present themselves rarely. Timing is all important, an elapsing contract, a financial need to sell, a managerial change, the player has reached the point he wants a move or whatever. 'You snooze - you lose', as they say. Its perfectly possible we'd never have the chance to purchase said player again. Lambert backs his judgement and does what he thinks is necessary.
As you say though, I just think sometimes these lads need a bit more help on the pitch. Before their confidence is shot.
If you were Nathan Baker (again only for example), would you rather muddle through with Ciaran Clark at your side, or would you rather be talked through the game by an international like Ron Vlaar.
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Weimann's was an incredibly anonymous performance today, really, really poor.
On the flip side, I thought Chris Herd did quite well.
Yes thought Herd put in a good shift, especially the fact that he has not played in the first team for a while. Would put him in front of the defence in a breaking up play role, when Vlaar is back ......
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Just got back. What the hell was Lambert thinking of with that defensive line up? He could have kept it as simple as possible by playing Lowton, Clark, Baker in their normal spots and somebody at left back but decided to play three players of position. Throwing Herd in at centre half who hasn't played for ages was a silly idea and it showed, I thought he was awful but it wasn't his fault.
Oh and that ref was shockingly bad,
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A truly awful performance for me. I don't think there was a redeeming performance from that game. Guzan made a few good saves, they hit the post twice and had a couple of clearances off the line. All I can recall is a Benteke shot straight at the keeper in the first half. Our passing and movement were shit - which forces the defence to hoof it long
The dost distressing fact was that a team which has had a manager in place for two games played better football than we did after 16 months together.
And a Fulham mate sent me a message telling me we are the worst team he has seen this season - except for Fulham!
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Gotta say Mr Lambert looks well and truly pissed off in the post match interview - although he says the lads gave plenty of effort he clearly recognises their shortcomings today and doesn't use injuries as an excuse - We weren't good enough.
I completely agree with him on the penalties and the new Fulham boss is gracious enough to admit they were lucky to get theirs and would have been disappointed if they hadn't got the one when Gabby was pulled down. He agrees with Lambert then.
Those two decisions were crucial and Dean fu**ed up.
As he did with quite a few others including Berbatov committing two consecutive fouls which Dean spoke to him about then did nothing when he committed a third.
He was shit.
So were we.
What we need next is a good win over a mid-table club like......
O bugger!
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Dave Woodhall, if I could address this to you. I think everybody accepts what we are right now. We are like a business that has been inherited by a son from a spendthrift father and we are working to resolve a few 'legacy issues' (Ireland, Bent, N'Zogbia etc).
We can accept that we are having to make do with taking punts on players rather than signing people to come straight in and improve the team. We can also accept and buy into what the overall project is. It is a long-term project and a very admirable one. We accept that we will need a few years in mid-table before we can climb back up towards an assault on the top six.
What is frustrating though, and hard to accept, is the fact that we see so many frailties every week and no obvious sign that they are being worked on. Our defence has improved (well Vlaar and Clark at least have) but in so many areas we really ride our luck. We gift teams the ball because, despite being a premier league team, our throw ins, our decision-making, our set-pieces and our tactics can be so painfully inept. If we're honest we have rode our luck. I was happy we got a point after we played Sunderland as they had some good chances and Southampton was a clear smash and grab (fair dues, Lambert got his tactics spot on that day).
But today, it was clear after ten mins that counter-attacking wasn't an option because Fulham had done their homework on us. And it is in those games where you need to rely on the basic skills of the game: passing, movement, intelligence, set-pieces in order to take something. And when that happens it is clear as day that we aren't good enough. Sure we will go along, soak up your pressure and hit you on the counter if you attack us but anything else is a struggle. Today, Westwood should not have been taking free kicks and corners. We all know this so why is he still taking them? We know Benteke is off form and winning very little in the air so shy do we punt it long to him? It is just frustrating to watch us be torn apart like that and to be so poor at so many basics. After what, 50+ league games with this project, you just wonder will it take another 50 games for us to learn how to get these basics right?
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Bollux.
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There was a flicker of some endeavour when one of ours was fouled at the far end. The crowd got going and I thought that we were going to see a change. Unfortunately, it only lasted for about 5 seconds.
When we were sitting on that bus after the game, I began to think what a waste of money the whole game was. Meanwhile, back in a nearby football dressing room, I doubt if there was any concern being shown about the days work.
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Still haven't seen us play well this season although in contrast some results have been good. Most of the 'edge of the seat' action comes from wondering if we are going to clear a dangerous situation rather than because of exciting attacking play.
We don't get wide often enough to cross ourselves but let the opponents cross with impunity from wide open spaces. Set piece delivery is rarely accurate let alone threatening; we readily cede possession and seldom press opponents. Players try, but generally lack skill and awareness and last ditch tackles and clearances bear witness to the panic created by players constantly being caught out of position.
Nail on head. We were given the run around today by not a very good team.
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Bollux.
What she said.
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In other words, without stating the obvious, I think taking someone like Gareth Barry would benefit us more than say, (for example) another Helenius.
I can understand why he bought Helenius if he sees him as one for the future (and he may be a brilliant prospect, I have no idea, we've hardly seen him). Same with Bowery, I guess.
I do think we need to start signing some players for now, though.
We needed experience this time last year & he didn't buy them or wasn't allowed to buy them when we were seriously in the shit. I doubt very much he'll be buying anyone of note this time either.
A wounded Man Utd, albeit their worst side in a generation, will rip us apart next week.
I wouldn't put a penny on us beating anyone at the moment and at some point everyone's patience is going to run out.
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In other words, without stating the obvious, I think taking someone like Gareth Barry would benefit us more than say, (for example) another Helenius.
I can understand why he bought Helenius if he sees him as one for the future (and he may be a brilliant prospect, I have no idea, we've hardly seen him). Same with Bowery, I guess.
I do think we need to start signing some players for now, though.
We needed experience this time last year & he didn't buy them or wasn't allowed to buy them when we were seriously in the shit. I doubt very much he'll be buying anyone of note this time either.
A wounded Man Utd, albeit their worst side in a generation, will rip us apart next week.
I wouldn't put a penny on us beating anyone at the moment and at some point everyone's patience is going to run out.
How long is it since we won, again?
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Bollux.
What she said.
Ok.
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Bollux.
That's being kind, I thought we were worse than that. Still, there's 10 teams below us apparently or some such number, which actually means we're quite good. In fact, there must be about 80 league clubs below us which therefore puts us on a par with Barcelona. And we've scored more goals or let in fewer than this time last season, or maybe both, and got more points too so I think we should be very pleased with that. And we're closer to 8th than we are to 14th which is amazing when you think about it. Aston Villa, almost top half or maybe already top half, who'd have thought it. I only wish my grandfather was alive to share in our good fortune.
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In other words, without stating the obvious, I think taking someone like Gareth Barry would benefit us more than say, (for example) another Helenius.
I can understand why he bought Helenius if he sees him as one for the future (and he may be a brilliant prospect, I have no idea, we've hardly seen him). Same with Bowery, I guess.
I do think we need to start signing some players for now, though.
We needed experience this time last year & he didn't buy them or wasn't allowed to buy them when we were seriously in the shit. I doubt very much he'll be buying anyone of note this time either.
A wounded Man Utd, albeit their worst side in a generation, will rip us apart next week.
I wouldn't put a penny on us beating anyone at the moment and at some point everyone's patience is going to run out.
How long is it since we won, again?
Four days. Sack the manager, lynch the chairman, burn the stadium to the ground and move to Mexico.
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What is frustrating though, and hard to accept, is the fact that we see so many frailties every week and no obvious sign that they are being worked on. Our defence has improved (well Vlaar and Clark at least have) but in so many areas we really ride our luck.
If our defence has improved, is that not one of the aforementioned frailties that has clearly been worked on?
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Bollux.
What she said.
I have to say, I don't think there was anything too controversial in there.
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What is frustrating though, and hard to accept, is the fact that we see so many frailties every week and no obvious sign that they are being worked on. Our defence has improved (well Vlaar and Clark at least have) but in so many areas we really ride our luck.
If our defence has improved, is that not one of the aforementioned frailties that has clearly been worked on?
Although that's a good point.
The defensive bloke he got in over the summer has clearly made a difference. We're still not immune to the odd ricket, but there has been definite improvement there.
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In other words, without stating the obvious, I think taking someone like Gareth Barry would benefit us more than say, (for example) another Helenius.
I can understand why he bought Helenius if he sees him as one for the future (and he may be a brilliant prospect, I have no idea, we've hardly seen him). Same with Bowery, I guess.
I do think we need to start signing some players for now, though.
We needed experience this time last year & he didn't buy them or wasn't allowed to buy them when we were seriously in the shit. I doubt very much he'll be buying anyone of note this time either.
A wounded Man Utd, albeit their worst side in a generation, will rip us apart next week.
I wouldn't put a penny on us beating anyone at the moment and at some point everyone's patience is going to run out.
How long is it since we won, again?
Four days. Sack the manager, lynch the chairman, burn the stadium to the ground and move to Mexico.
Overreacting again Monty!
SELL the stadium, get some dosh, don't burn it! ;-)
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If you don't think the defending's improved, watch the highlights from the Southampton defeat at VP last season.
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Did those of you watching on an
illegal stream TV notice Gabby having a go at Bacuna and telling him to "Think!"? The camera showed him saying it twice. I was hoping he'd burst into song like Aretha Franklin in the Blues Brothers and get the whole team doing a dance routine.
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In other words, without stating the obvious, I think taking someone like Gareth Barry would benefit us more than say, (for example) another Helenius.
I can understand why he bought Helenius if he sees him as one for the future (and he may be a brilliant prospect, I have no idea, we've hardly seen him). Same with Bowery, I guess.
I do think we need to start signing some players for now, though.
We needed experience this time last year & he didn't buy them or wasn't allowed to buy them when we were seriously in the shit. I doubt very much he'll be buying anyone of note this time either.
A wounded Man Utd, albeit their worst side in a generation, will rip us apart next week.
I wouldn't put a penny on us beating anyone at the moment and at some point everyone's patience is going to run out.
How long is it since we won, again?
But hand on heart would you put money on us beating anyone?
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Bollux.
What she said.
Ok.
I disagree with all three of you - we were worse than bollux.
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But hand on heart would you put money on us beating anyone?
I think we're one of the most volatile sides in the league, in that we seem to be either really good or really shit and not much in between, which is one thing which keeps it from being "boring" (see other thread).
I actually wouldn't bet on us this season, full stop - win or lose.
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In other words, without stating the obvious, I think taking someone like Gareth Barry would benefit us more than say, (for example) another Helenius.
I can understand why he bought Helenius if he sees him as one for the future (and he may be a brilliant prospect, I have no idea, we've hardly seen him). Same with Bowery, I guess.
I do think we need to start signing some players for now, though.
We needed experience this time last year & he didn't buy them or wasn't allowed to buy them when we were seriously in the shit. I doubt very much he'll be buying anyone of note this time either.
A wounded Man Utd, albeit their worst side in a generation, will rip us apart next week.
I wouldn't put a penny on us beating anyone at the moment and at some point everyone's patience is going to run out.
How long is it since we won, again?
But hand on heart would you put money on us beating anyone?
Me? Money? Bless your naivety.
Actually I would because first of all we've won a few this season and second - look at the table. There are more teams below us than above and there's a reason for that.
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But hand on heart would you put money on us beating anyone?
Obviously, we're 10th in one of the top three leagues in the world, not bloody bottom of the Slovenian U-10s Fourth Division.
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Bollux.
That's being kind, I thought we were worse than that. Still, there's 10 teams below us apparently or some such number, which actually means we're quite good. In fact, there must be about 80 league clubs below us which therefore puts us on a par with Barcelona. And we've scored more goals or let in fewer than this time last season, or maybe both, and got more points too so I think we should be very pleased with that. And we're closer to 8th than we are to 14th which is amazing when you think about it. Aston Villa, almost top half or maybe already top half, who'd have thought it. I only wish my grandfather was alive to share in our good fortune.
So we are supposed to go from relegation candidates to top 6 challengers without going through any of the points in between? It's hard work at the moment but we're making ourselves into a more solid unit, as reflected by our league position, but it doesn't happen overnight and I think we just have to understand that there will be days like this along the way.
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Oh please, we are not in danger of anything dreadful. We just had a bad day at the office.
Next Sunday, total domination.
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What happened to the 5 year plan Dave?
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Should have gone in for Gazza Bazza in the summer....working wonders at Everton.
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Unless my ears are broken, Mark Chapman just spoke bollocks on MOTD 2. He said Villa are inconsistent because they failed to win against Norwich (1-0 Kozak), Hull, Sunderland and West Ham (all reasonable 0-0 draws). How much do these ill informed dickheads get paid to spout utter nonsense?!
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Watching MOTD we didn't look to bad until the goals but the Pen killed us
Also showed that despite PL protests Experience can make a difference as seen by Fulhams midfield and Berbatov today
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If you devide the league teams into these categories:
Lucky if you get anything
Tricky
Winnable
Sadly we are now on everyone's winnable list
Who come the previous 5 teams we played couldn't beat us? O.k on balance of performance probably two of those should've won (Sunderland and WBA) but the reality is we're a mid table team.
A mid table team will win some, draw some and lose some more. We'll pick up enough points from those below us to not have any relegation battle this season but frustratingly just when we have a chance to kick on after a good result we play and lose like today.
I'd be happy with top 10 this season, it's looking like it will just be sneaking into 10th but still it's small progress. I do have my doubts with this current policy when we can really challenge the top 6 again (which Everton and Newcastle are doing). At some point we will have to sign some better players and shock horror these guys will be earning decent wages at the clubs they're at.
Not sure we can consider ourselves as a mid table team, we are a bad run away from fighting it out down the bottom and bsed on the last 3 performances we are more than capable of stinging some bad results together.
We have 19 points on the board from a hard run of games.If you devide the league teams into these categories:
Lucky if you get anything
Tricky
Winnable
Sadly we are now on everyone's winnable list
Who come the previous 5 teams we played couldn't beat us? O.k on balance of performance probably two of those should've won (Sunderland and WBA) but the reality is we're a mid table team.
A mid table team will win some, draw some and lose some more. We'll pick up enough points from those below us to not have any relegation battle this season but frustratingly just when we have a chance to kick on after a good result we play and lose like today.
I'd be happy with top 10 this season, it's looking like it will just be sneaking into 10th but still it's small progress. I do have my doubts with this current policy when we can really challenge the top 6 again (which Everton and Newcastle are doing). At some point we will have to sign some better players and shock horror these guys will be earning decent wages at the clubs they're at.
Not sure we can consider ourselves as a mid table team, we are a bad run away from fighting it out down the bottom and bsed on the last 3 performances we are more than capable of stinging some bad results together.
If we aren't a mid table team than with respect what on earth are the likes of West Ham, Norwich, WBA, Stoke?
You can't seriously say they're better than us. Yes Stoke beat Chelsea but that was a fluke, very similar to how we beat Man. City.
Despite all our faults there are many poorer teams than us in the league thankfully than in previous seasons.
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Unless my ears are broken, Mark Chapman just spoke bollocks on MOTD 2. He said Villa are inconsistent because they failed to win against Norwich (1-0 Kozak), Hull, Sunderland and West Ham (all reasonable 0-0 draws). How much do these ill informed dickheads get paid to spout utter nonsense?!
Far too much.
As you said, Bollux.
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MOTD:
Dean fu**ed up with both pens - official - Hansen said it!
Sidwell goal almost pantomime. Confirms my seeing it live when I said "How the f**k did that go in?"
The Berbatov kicking at Herd (which I didn't see at the time) was his third foul in about 6 minutes - should already have been booked - wasn't - should've been sent off - wasn't.
On a scale of 1 to 10?
Big spiky stick shoved right up his a***.
Not that I'm bitter mind, just slightly vexed.
:D
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I was very disappointed how Westwood went missing today. In fact it was a disgraceful performance from a midfielder who's supposed to be our playmaker. He hid behind his markers too often. There were so many occasions when Clark or Herd stepped out of defence but had no option to pass to. Inevitably they had to play it long.
Likewise KEA was the same. He was non existent. In his case I think games just pass him by too often. In Westwoods case, from what I've seen too often this season, he goes hiding. He's also lost a lot of the composure he had between Feb and March. Back then he was always available for a pass. He then rarely wasted the ball. He's starting to look seriously out of his depth.
Delph again was head and shoulders our best midfielder, but he was below par too.
We've certainly got to sort out our movement. It was woeful today. Players stood waiting for passes behind their markers. No one making themselves available, forcing us to hoof hopefull balls forward.
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I can't for the life of me understand why "professional" players can not pass the Fucking ball to each other?
I thought my dad was posting on here when I read that.
And the money they are on these days.
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mostly Bacuna just got slagged for being out of position as a right back. possibly, that might be because he's not a right back. if paul fucking lambert can't see that but any twat who works for motd can see that, it's worrying.
when we have players who are fit and dropped for players out of their positions, what does that say? what does weimann have to do to be droppped? he has been consistently one of the worst performers this season, easily, yet is a cert on the team sheet. lambert seems to have gone from a manager who believed in width to one who actively narrows our game. why?
today was horrible, shit tactics, very little effort (gabby, guzan and herd apart), long ball. a team that had lost 7 on the bounce and we made them look good. don't blame the ref lambert, it could easily have been 5-0
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Unless my ears are broken, Mark Chapman just spoke bollocks on MOTD 2. He said Villa are inconsistent because they failed to win against Norwich (1-0 Kozak), Hull, Sunderland and West Ham (all reasonable 0-0 draws). How much do these ill informed dickheads get paid to spout utter nonsense?!
Far too much.
As you said, Bollux.
Louzie0 - are you on some kind of sponsored "bollux" thing?
;-)
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We have 19 points on the board from a hard run of games.
Wow. How much longer is this line going to be trotted out for. We are nearly at the halfway point of the season!
We've recently played the bottom 2 in this division, scored
0 goals and got 1 point.
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I was out and did not watch live, so accept the majority of you on here saying we played badly. But, the MOTD2 highlights show that new manager syndrome affected the referee, who wanted/ expected Fulham to win. Their pen: not. Hughes on Gabby: pen. Berbatov on Herd: red card. (Sidwell's goal was just one of those to shrug at. We all know he never has and never will do that again.)
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Unless my ears are broken, Mark Chapman just spoke bollocks on MOTD 2. He said Villa are inconsistent because they failed to win against Norwich (1-0 Kozak), Hull, Sunderland and West Ham (all reasonable 0-0 draws). How much do these ill informed dickheads get paid to spout utter nonsense?!
Far too much.
As you said, Bollux.
Louzie0 - are you on some kind of sponsored "bollux" thing?
;-)
Mark Chapman is, however his sponsor spells it. He knows everything including the names of the tea ladies about the top 5 clubs, but after that his small brain is too full to bother with real facts about the other 15 teams he is paid a fortune to broadcast about.
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(Sidwell's goal was just one of those to shrug at. We all know he never has and never will do that again.)
[/quote]
Everton away, December 2007 - he scored a cracker ( hard to believe I know)
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(Sidwell's goal was just one of those to shrug at. We all know he never has and never will do that again.)
Everton away, December 2007 - he scored a cracker ( hard to believe I know)
[/quote]
Superb assist at home to Hull City that time, too.
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I was out and did not watch live, so accept the majority of you on here saying we played badly. But, the MOTD2 highlights show that new manager syndrome affected the referee, who wanted/ expected Fulham to win. Their pen: not. Hughes on Gabby: pen. Berbatov on Herd: red card. (Sidwell's goal was just one of those to shrug at. We all know he never has and never will do that again.)
Berbatov got away with murder today. That for me was the worst part of today. But no excuse really. Fulham were by a long, comfortable margin, the superior side. Poor decisions can't excuse how feck awful we were.
I also felt Bacunas was a penalty. Technically it shouldn't really have been, but it's one of these where as a defender, you don't make the challenge. He's coming from behind, he makes contact and the attacker goes down. When the attacker gets goal side of you, you just don't give them an excuse to go down, he should have tried to get goal side of him or leave it to Guzan and try to cover the line. 7-8 times out of 10, those decisions go to the attacker, and it did. So for me, though it was harsh, it's one that mostly gets given. Naive defending. We got the decision with a very similar challenge against Arsenal.
Gabby's was also probably a pen. There was contact, but he did oversell it. The thing is though, if the ref doesn't give it, he has to book Gabby for diving, but he didn't, so his view on the incident is highly questionnable.
Again though. No excuses, we deserved to get trounced today.
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There's no way that was a penalty, just no way whatsoever. He didn't make contact, the striker stepped into him.
Mike Dean refereed by guesswork today.
He's a truly awful referee, and he's far from the only one.
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There is no denying we were poor today, but as depressingly few people have reasonably pointed out, this is mid-table for you. We're capable of brilliance and muck, often in the same match. We'll win some and we'll lose some. What would you have given last January to be told that we'd be tenth by December? And tenth in the Premier League at that? I appreciate that people are sick of watching dire performances, that it costs a fortune to watch this guff, but the extreme reactions after every defeat are getting more depressing than the results. A bit of perspective on here, even after a shitty showing like today, would make the defeat easier to take.
If people really can't see that we're making progress then they need to wake up. It may be slow, it may not be what you expected, but if you take Lambert's first year as a honeymoon period then this is his first proper blip; if you really want him out after his first poor run of form when we're tenth then maybe you deserve whichever Megson comes in to replace him.
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To be fair, CB, I don't think anyone has said they want him out.
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(Sidwell's goal was just one of those to shrug at. We all know he never has and never will do that again.)
Everton away, December 2007 - he scored a cracker ( hard to believe I know)
Superb assist at home to Hull City that time, too.
[/quote]
I was sat behind him against Hull when he was a sub warming up and assisted that assist. One tiny magic moment for whatever fortune he was paid by Villa. I meant that today he stuck it in from an incredible angle, due to flukey timing and Bacuna not being a defender.
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There's no way that was a penalty, just no way whatsoever. He didn't make contact, the striker stepped into him.
Mike Dean refereed by guesswork today.
He's a truly awful referee, and he's far from the only one.
It wasn't but like I say, those are given quite often. The legs came together, it was 6 and two three's. Because Bacuna was coming in from behind, it was always going to go the attackers way. A more experienced defender would have backed off, or tried to cover the goal perhaps. Soon as the player went to ground I new it'd be given.
For me the Berbatov decisions were worse, but it just seemed like a Berba wankfest day. The commentary were jizzing over him and he got every decision. He actually had a handful of classy moments but strolled through most of the game trying the odd showboat. 6/10 at best.
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There's no way that was a penalty, just no way whatsoever. He didn't make contact, the striker stepped into him.
Mike Dean refereed by guesswork today.
He's a truly awful referee, and he's far from the only one.
It wasn't but like I say, those are given quite often. The legs came together, it was 6 and two three's. Because Bacuna was coming in from behind, it was always going to go the attackers way. A more experienced defender would have backed off, or tried to cover the goal perhaps. Soon as the player went to ground I new it'd be given
But you said it was a penalty?
The fact they're often given doesn't mean it's a good decision. It wasn't even six and two threes, the Fulham player stepped into Bacuna and went down. Nothing like a penalty.
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There's no way that was a penalty, just no way whatsoever. He didn't make contact, the striker stepped into him.
Mike Dean refereed by guesswork today.
He's a truly awful referee, and he's far from the only one.
It wasn't but like I say, those are given quite often. The legs came together, it was 6 and two three's. Because Bacuna was coming in from behind, it was always going to go the attackers way. A more experienced defender would have backed off, or tried to cover the goal perhaps. Soon as the player went to ground I new it'd be given
But you said it was a penalty?
The fact they're often given doesn't mean it's a good decision. It wasn't even six and two threes, the Fulham player stepped into Bacuna and went down. Nothing like a penalty.
It's part of this problem with the way games are reffed and inconsistencies, but I knew he'd give it as soon as the player went down. No it shouldn't be a penalty but more often than not, "challenges" like that are given. It's why as a defender you've got to be careful.
I agree though it's ridiculous but the letter of the law is confused, as is the way it's followed.
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To be fair, CB, I don't think anyone has said they want him out.
Oh they have. Correct me if I'm wrong (and if I am I'll apologise) but I think Irish Villain has been pretty explicit in his views. And AJK whatsit said:
"I'm sick of us being shit, don't kid yourself, we are shit right now. I'm sick of signing unheard of shit and im sick of making excuses up for why this week we wasn't any good, again.
We cannot pass the ball, we can barely control a ball. The better players all we already at the club and this scotch clown has frittered away the cash we had to spend. He can go fuck himself, the dour, boring, dull, unimaginative, excuse making twat.
I'm sick of them. And i'm sick of Lambore especially."
Not exactly a ringing endorsement. A mildly illiterate post, but not a ringing endorsement. I believe Richard Moore agreed with him. I'm not sure I've read the phrase "Sack Lambert" anywhere, but the sentiment is loud and clear in some quarters.
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There is no denying we were poor today, but as depressingly few people have reasonably pointed out, this is mid-table for you. We're capable of brilliance and muck, often in the same match. We'll win some and we'll lose some. What would you have given last January to be told that we'd be tenth by December? And tenth in the Premier League at that? I appreciate that people are sick of watching dire performances, that it costs a fortune to watch this guff, but the extreme reactions after every defeat are getting more depressing than the results. A bit of perspective on here, even after a shitty showing like today, would make the defeat easier to take.
If people really can't see that we're making progress then they need to wake up. It may be slow, it may not be what you expected, but if you take Lambert's first year as a honeymoon period then this is his first proper blip; if you really want him out after his first poor run of form when we're tenth then maybe you deserve whichever Megson comes in to replace him.
The most sensible post I've seen on here in a while.
Extreme reactions are not just on here though, it seems to be the norm for many football fans at the moment. I don't know why people put themselves through it when it just gets them so wound up and down about the whole thing. I actually had to move seats for the 2nd half of the Everton game because according to the people behind everything the team did was shocking and the whole team was useless. I've never heard moaning like it. They made it sound like we were playing against Tamworth.
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Watching Everton, their loans of Delefou and Barry have been totally inspired. Barry is just the type we need to give experience and Delefou is just the sort we could do with to open up a game. Inspired loan deals by them. It is a market we have to look at to help bring the young players through. They will mature, they will improve, but it was noticeable today the only really experienced leader in the side was missing.
the commentator summed them up perfect, a blend of experience and arrogant youngsters
you listening Lambert
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watching MOTD depressed
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There is no denying we were poor today, but as depressingly few people have reasonably pointed out, this is mid-table for you. We're capable of brilliance and muck, often in the same match. We'll win some and we'll lose some. What would you have given last January to be told that we'd be tenth by December? And tenth in the Premier League at that? I appreciate that people are sick of watching dire performances, that it costs a fortune to watch this guff, but the extreme reactions after every defeat are getting more depressing than the results. A bit of perspective on here, even after a shitty showing like today, would make the defeat easier to take.
If people really can't see that we're making progress then they need to wake up. It may be slow, it may not be what you expected, but if you take Lambert's first year as a honeymoon period then this is his first proper blip; if you really want him out after his first poor run of form when we're tenth then maybe you deserve whichever Megson comes in to replace him.
The most sensible post I've seen on here in a while.
Extreme reactions are not just on here though, it seems to be the norm for many football fans at the moment. I don't know why people put themselves through it when it just gets them so wound up and down about the whole thing.
Absolutely. And going back to CB's point, that's not just mid-table for you, it's football for you.
Ask any football fan to explain why it's the best sport and they'll mention its unpredictability, its low unit of scoring meaning that upsets are more likely etc etc. Irish Villan suggested that he needs evidence that flaws are being corrected on a week-by-week basis. I think he's watching the wrong game.
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Watching Everton, their loans of Delefou and Barry have been totally inspired. Barry is just the type we need to give experience and Delefou is just the sort we could do with to open up a game. Inspired loan deals by them. It is a market we have to look at to help bring the young players through. They will mature, they will improve, but it was noticeable today the only really experienced leader in the side was missing.
the commentator summed them up perfect, a blend of experience and arrogant youngsters
you listening Lambert
It's not about experience or arrogance, it's about quality. We can't afford players of that quality, of any age. You listening JUAN PABLO?
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Watching Everton, their loans of Delefou and Barry have been totally inspired. Barry is just the type we need to give experience and Delefou is just the sort we could do with to open up a game. Inspired loan deals by them. It is a market we have to look at to help bring the young players through. They will mature, they will improve, but it was noticeable today the only really experienced leader in the side was missing.
the commentator summed them up perfect, a blend of experience and arrogant youngsters
you listening Lambert
It's not about experience or arrogance, it's about quality. We can't afford players of that quality, of any age. You listening JUAN PABLO?
so you reckon Lamberts had no money to spend . oh dear
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Not on wages, no.
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Watched the game this afternoon on TV and had been disappointed with poor quality football. I am sick of crap and poor football from my team. I want football to be fun and enjoyable and played properly.
Possession is important as it keep the ball working and make the opposition do more work. We haven't passed the ball properly since John Gregory era. We alway a team mostly in mid / lower half table.
We have buy a lot of poor / average players under Lambert apart from Benteke, Jores Okore and Lowton. We keep using players out of position and use too many players off form, and don't use youth enough.
The club doesn't make me want to give my passion and money for the team. We need to look at Swansea and see what they are doing and stick to footballing principles and finding managers which stick to their footballing principles. Why can't we get managers like Roberto Martinez or Michael Laudrup.
I am sick of 4-3-3 ineffective counter attacking game. For next game I would chop and change the team.
Guzian,
Lowton, Clark, Baker (assuming Vlaar is out), Luna/Bennett (Who ever is fit)
Albrighton, Syvila, Westwood, reserve team player like Williams or Greaish
Benteke, Kojak
and Agbonlahor is not a captain. Maybe it is time to give it to Westwood to see if it inspire him to do more.
We need a winger, a playmaker, a powerful midfield general. That mean finding next Dennis Mortimer, Gordon Cowans and Tony Morley to play with Delph. When Gary Gardner is due to come back from injury ?
Think not resigning Barry on loan is one of worse mistake we made this summer.
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Was Gardner a sub today?
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Was Gardner a sub today?
I know weimann was ;)
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Watching Everton, their loans of Delefou and Barry have been totally inspired. Barry is just the type we need to give experience and Delefou is just the sort we could do with to open up a game. Inspired loan deals by them. It is a market we have to look at to help bring the young players through. They will mature, they will improve, but it was noticeable today the only really experienced leader in the side was missing.
the commentator summed them up perfect, a blend of experience and arrogant youngsters
you listening Lambert
It's not about experience or arrogance, it's about quality. We can't afford players of that quality, of any age. You listening JUAN PABLO?
so you reckon Lamberts had no money to spend . oh dear
I reckon he's had about forty million to spend on an entire squad. It's not much. And it's not about the transfer fees, our wage structure would never allow us to accommodate players of the quality of Barry or Delefeou. Which was my point. But you clearly don't get it anyway. Oh dear indeed.
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Too much fxing perspective, that's the problem
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Watched the game this afternoon on TV and had been disappointed with poor quality football. I am sick of crap and poor football from my team. I want football to be fun and enjoyable and played properly.
Possession is important as it keep the ball working and make the opposition do more work. We haven't passed the ball properly since John Gregory era. We alway a team mostly in mid / lower half table.
We have buy a lot of poor / average players under Lambert apart from Benteke, Jores Okore and Lowton. We keep using players out of position and use too many players off form, and don't use youth enough.
The club doesn't make me want to give my passion and money for the team. We need to look at Swansea and see what they are doing and stick to footballing principles and finding managers which stick to their footballing principles. Why can't we get managers like Roberto Martinez or Michael Laudrup.
I am sick of 4-3-3 ineffective counter attacking game. For next game I would chop and change the team.
Guzian,
Lowton, Clark, Baker (assuming Vlaar is out), Luna/Bennett (Who ever is fit)
Albrighton, Syvila, Westwood, reserve team player like Williams or Greaish
Benteke, Kojak
and Agbonlahor is not a captain. Maybe it is time to give it to Westwood to see if it inspire him to do more.
We need a winger, a playmaker, a powerful midfield general. That mean finding next Dennis Mortimer, Gordon Cowans and Tony Morley to play with Delph. When Gary Gardner is due to come back from injury ?
Because presumably they haven't got the desire to come and do a complete overhaul of a massive club like ours on a shoestring budget. The job was there for the taking if Martinez wanted it. He didn't fancy it. Lambert had the balls to take it on. He's not even two seasons into the job, don't write him off yet.
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I'm trying to understand the Lambert love in but can't, so to help me better understand why the pro Lambert supporters rate him so highly, can you provide a cogent argument as to why he is right for us and exactly what he has achieved since arriving and spending a not inconsiderable sum of money to get us playing exactly like TSM did on much less?
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Lowton asking to swap shirts with Berbatov moments after our surrender had reached a merciful end speaks volumes to me. This is what we've become is it? Star struck Aston Villa youngsters pleading for a Fulham (yes Fulham!) striker to part with his shirt, what the hell is all that about? It's less than a minute since we've lost the game, the guy should be thinking of nothing else but defeat. If you or I were on that pitch we'd have to be dragged off it in desolation, yet he's got his tongue hanging out and puppy dog eyes pleading with the opposition to part with a shirt. Absolutely pathetic. We're Aston Villa, we are better than this.
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Lowton asking to swap shirts with Berbatov moments after our surrender had reached a merciful end speaks volumes to me. This is what we've become is it? Star struck Aston Villa youngsters pleading for a Fulham (yes Fulham!) striker to part with his shirt, what the hell is all that about? It's less than a minute since we've lost the game, the guy should be thinking of nothing else but defeat. If you or I were on that pitch we'd have to be dragged off it in desolation, yet he's got his tongue hanging out and puppy dog eyes pleading with the opposition to part with a shirt. Absolutely pathetic. We're Aston Villa, we are better than this.
Well said.
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I'm trying to understand the Lambert love in but can't, so to help me better understand why the pro Lambert supporters rate him so highly, can you provide a cogent argument as to why he is right for us and exactly what he has achieved since arriving and spending a not inconsiderable sum of money to get us playing exactly like TSM did on much less?
For me the jury is still out on him - I'm not convinced he is the right man but I'm not in the sack him now camp either - I think we should wait until the summer and see how things pan out - we are in a position that looks decent at the moment but with only 6 points between 10th and 19th we could get dragged into trouble still.
The next couple of months will be important and a couple of wins can do wonders - we need Vlaar back and benteke on form and I think things will be ok , certainly would bring Lowton back in at right back and there is no way Weimann should be in the side on form .
Regarding January i think an experienced defender on loan would be a good idea until okore is back and we are crying out for quality and creativity on midfield - as we have been for a long while now , this needs to be addressed as top priority.
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What a waste of a Sunday.
The poorest we have played all season by some distance and against really poor opposition too. The lack of proper full backs needs to be sorted. It took 80 minutes for a cross to come in from the left because we have our 4th choice centre half playing as a left back.
Bacuna had an absolute mare, why he stopped for the soft first goal, I have no idea and I am also not sure where Guzan was going.
The midfield was so deep that there was a good thirty yards between the forwards. I am not sure what has been worked on during the week as our only tactic seemed to be to hope for Benteke to win a knock down for Gabby.
We were devoid of ideas and thoroughly inept.
The penalty decisions were farcical and bizarrely the game could have ended 1-1 as a result, but it doesn’t mask how desperately poor we were.
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What a waste of a Sunday.
The poorest we have played all season by some distance and against really poor opposition too. The lack of proper full backs needs to be sorted. It took 80 minutes for a cross to come in from the left because we have our 4th choice centre half playing as a left back.
Bacuna had an absolute mare, why he stopped for the soft first goal, I have no idea and I am also not sure where Guzan was going.
The midfield was so deep that there was a good thirty yards between the forwards. I am not sure what has been worked on during the week as our only tactic seemed to be to hope for Benteke to win a knock down for Gabby.
We were devoid of ideas and thoroughly inept.
The penalty decisions were farcical and bizarrely the game could have ended 1-1 as a result, but it doesn’t mask how desperately poor we were.
Pretty much spot on ads , both goals very very soft but Fulham were worthy of the win and could have had more - I could not understand why Guzan went to ground or rushed out like that for the goal - the pen was soft and harsh but bacuna has been dreadful at right back recently and Lowton should be there .
Left back is a problem and when fit both luna and Bennett have looked ropey in the role at times - central defence when fit I'm pretty happy with - Vlaar and okore will be fine and Clark as cover with baker will be sufficient .
Midfield really is a huge problem area - Delph is superb but neither Westwood, sylla or kea are really convincing - Westwood is not the player he was last season and I thought he was awful yesterday , but we are short of quality and creativity in that area.
We need genuine width in the team and cannot keep playing Weimann when he is so off form - there are a few worries at the moment .
On the positive side when fit we have a decent spine to the team with Guzan , Delph, Vlaar and benteke .
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A great weekend in London almost ruined by watching that pile of utter gash - are we really improving?
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Midfield definitely needs freshening up . Someone who can pass forwards and make a forward run to support the strikers. Johnson and Gardner must be worth a look at right now.
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A great weekend in London almost ruined by watching that pile of utter gash - are we really improving?
Yes, this time last year we were in the relegation zone, we currently sit 10th.
Yesterday was a crap performance there's no doubt about that but it happens, let's see how they react next Sunday.
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Reading these threads after the games actually help my mood after a defeat, because it is a relief to see that other people see the same issues, for example:
- Westwood should not be taking set pieces
- Lunas throw-ins are terrible
- Bacuna is a midfielder, not a right back
- What has Lowton done wrong not to get picked
- Weimann is off form
etc.
We might not always agree on the answers, but it helps that I am not the only one frustrated about the above. But it annoys me that Lambert does not change things, for example try different corner kicks. At least try. Or give other people a chance, when players are out of form.
It is a bit difficult to blame him for the cheap signings, because I have not got a clue what the budget is or if he has been told not to loan players or buy older players with no sell-on value. We hear nothing from Lerner about our goals, plans or ambitions and that annoys me. What are Lerner´s plans for Villa ?
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A great weekend in London almost ruined by watching that pile of utter gash - are we really improving?
Yes, this time last year we were in the relegation zone, we currently sit 10th.
Yesterday was a crap performance there's no doubt about that but it happens, let's see how they react next Sunday.
Lets not get too carried away that we are 10th - only 6 points between 10th and 19th - a few big games coming up which will tell us a lot about our squad this month .
Don't get me wrong I'm pleased to be where we are now but the bottom half is very tight and we need to continue to pick up wins.
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Reading these threads after the games actually help my mood after a defeat, because it is a relief to see that other people see the same issues, for example:
- Westwood should not be taking set pieces
- Lunas throw-ins are terrible
- Bacuna is a midfielder, not a right back
- What has Lowton done wrong not to get picked
- Weimann is off form
etc.
We might not always agree on the answers, but it helps that I am not the only one frustrated about the above. But it annoys me that Lambert does not change things, for example try different corner kicks. At least try. Or give other people a chance, when players are out of form.
It is a bit difficult to blame him for the cheap signings, because I have not got a clue what the budget is or if he has been told not to loan players or buy older players with no sell-on value. We hear nothing from Lerner about our goals, plans or ambitions and that annoys me. What are Lerner´s plans for Villa ?
Maybe bacuna should be on corners - his set piece delivery can't be worse than westwoods.
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Midfield definitely needs freshening up . Someone who can pass forwards and make a forward run to support the strikers. Johnson and Gardner must be worth a look at right now.
I thought Johnson was very poor against Pool u-21 the other night and did nothing to show he was worthy of being near the first team squad. And Lambert was there watching it so one would think they would be busting a gut trying to impress.
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Exactly, why not try Bacuna on corners ? It can only get better. If not, try another one..
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Whilst we were poor the Ref has done us out of a point , possibly all 3.
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Whilst we were poor the Ref has done us out of a point , possibly all 3.
I think Fulham would still have found a way through to be honest. The ref was bloody shocking but we didn't deserve anything out the game sadly. Had we played even anywhere approaching mediocre I'd be really pissed off about that reffing display, as it was we were that bad it's not really bothered me too much.
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and poor set pieces/throw in/corners is not good enough. When we had Martin Laursen and John Carew in the team with Ashley Young it is much more dangerous. I would love to see the stats we score from corners and free kicks header in last 18 months
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The funny thing was we were all crying out for Lowton in the last few games. He came on against Soton and looked poor (albeit CH) and then he came on yesterday and gave the ball away in a good position at one point, which thankfully Fulham didn't capitalize on.
While our side is really struggling at the moment, I'm not sure what difference Lowton will actually make. He's a player who's clearly short on confidence himself. There also appears to be something between him and the gaffer. He's not far off having been treated like one of the bomb squad. What's gone on is anyones guess.
The fact Herdy came in and got a game over him spoke volumes. In fairness to Herdy I thought he was the best (of a bad bunch) at the back yesterday. What I do like about Herd, and why I wouldn't mind slipping him into midfield, is his commitment and attitude. That said, they lad went off injured again. If he fell into a barrel of boobs he'd come out sucking his thumb.
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It's all been said, but I just want to add how intensely frustrating I find Westwood's set piece deliveries. Whip a few in for fucks sake. Get it in the fucking mixer!
Definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
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and poor set pieces/throw in/corners is not good enough. When we had Martin Laursen and John Carew in the team with Ashley Young it is much more dangerous. I would love to see the stats we score from corners and free kicks header in last 18 months
I think in 07/08 we scored a ton of goals. 70 odd, and about half of them came from set pieces. Not just Young either, we had Gaz Baz taking corners from one side too and he could whip in a goodun.
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Whilst we were poor the Ref has done us out of a point , possibly all 3.
I think Fulham would still have found a way through to be honest. The ref was bloody shocking but we didn't deserve anything out the game sadly. Had we played even anywhere approaching mediocre I'd be really pissed off about that reffing display, as it was we were that bad it's not really bothered me too much.
Agreed. They could have had more. We barely looked like scoring. Again.
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Whilst we were poor the Ref has done us out of a point , possibly all 3.
I think Fulham would still have found a way through to be honest. The ref was bloody shocking but we didn't deserve anything out the game sadly. Had we played even anywhere approaching mediocre I'd be really pissed off about that reffing display, as it was we were that bad it's not really bothered me too much.
Agreed. They could have had more. We barely looked like scoring. Again.
Guzans save from Berbatov in the first half was world class. So we're damn lucky to have a top keeper as well.
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The funny thing was we were all crying out for Lowton in the last few games. He came on against Soton and looked poor (albeit CH) and then he came on yesterday and gave the ball away in a good position at one point, which thankfully Fulham didn't capitalize on.
While our side is really struggling at the moment, I'm not sure what difference Lowton will actually make. He's a player who's clearly short on confidence himself. There also appears to be something between him and the gaffer. He's not far off having been treated like one of the bomb squad. What's gone on is anyones guess.
The fact Herdy came in and got a game over him spoke volumes. In fairness to Herdy I thought he was the best (of a bad bunch) at the back yesterday. What I do like about Herd, and why I wouldn't mind slipping him into midfield, is his commitment and attitude. That said, they lad went off injured again. If he fell into a barrel of boobs he'd come out sucking his thumb.
Lowton Made a difference against Cardiff i felt - bacuna was shocking at right back yesterday , more effective in midfield .
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I have literally no idea why Westwwod has every indirect attacking set-piece. they're not even average, they're really poor. The only times his corners have ever lead to goals have just been because Benteke's been able to out-jump everybody else in the box.
I remember Tonev taking a corner against Malaga in the sumemr and it being an absolut epeach that landed right on Vlaar's head, at pace, inswinging, from 6 yards out. Why's he never taken one in a competitive match?! Westwood's lofted corners are probably the thing I find most frustrating about this current side.
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If you watched MOTD 2 last night, Alan Hansen perfectly analysed Bacuna's positional weakness (and therefore Villa achilles heel) at right-back. He was starting far too high up the field for a full-back playing in a back 4. Lowton is very good at getting forward from deep-positions, whereas Bacuna very much looks like a winger playing at right-back. Whilst it was the penalty decision was a dreadful one, Bacuna shouldn't have been caught wrong-side of his man in that position in the first place.
It's made even more frustrating by the fact that Wiemann is currently not bringing anything to the side in an attacking side.
For me, next week's team picks itself after yesterday;
Guzan; Lowton, Vlaar, Clark, Luna; Tonev/El Ahmadi, Delph, Westwood, Bacuna; Benteke, Agbonlahor.
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Like someone else said earlier in the thread, Lambert made a total mess of that yesterday from start to finish. Throw in most of the players having a terrible game and we ended up with us lucky not to have been beaten by more.
I like Lambert and overall I can see what he's trying to do but every so often I do wonder tactically what the hell he's thinking.
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Lambert should find a very good tactician coach to work with him.
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Lambert should find a very good tactician coach to work with him.
He will probably say he already has a very good coaching staff - most of who have been with him at various clubs .
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Like someone else said earlier in the thread, Lambert made a total mess of that yesterday from start to finish. Throw in most of the players having a terrible game and we ended up with us lucky not to have been beaten by more.
I like Lambert and overall I can see what he's trying to do but every so often I do wonder tactically what the hell he's thinking.
I can't see what he's trying to do at all. Passing it around at the back might get our possession stats looking healthier but for what purpose? And how narrow are we defensively? Fulham's wide men had the freedom of the park yesterday.
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Like someone else said earlier in the thread, Lambert made a total mess of that yesterday from start to finish. Throw in most of the players having a terrible game and we ended up with us lucky not to have been beaten by more.
I like Lambert and overall I can see what he's trying to do but every so often I do wonder tactically what the hell he's thinking.
I can't see what he's trying to do at all. Passing it around at the back might get our possession stats looking healthier but for what purpose?
We spent chunks of the match doing that, then someone would look up, see god knows what at the other end of the pitch, and launch it up-field in the general direction of where Benteke should be.
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Like someone else said earlier in the thread, Lambert made a total mess of that yesterday from start to finish. Throw in most of the players having a terrible game and we ended up with us lucky not to have been beaten by more.
I like Lambert and overall I can see what he's trying to do but every so often I do wonder tactically what the hell he's thinking.
Yesterday was terrible but I do think his hands were tied by the number of injuries we have. Even with the benefit of hindsight I'd struggle to pick a balanced side from the players available.
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The funny thing was we were all crying out for Lowton in the last few games. He came on against Soton and looked poor (albeit CH) and then he came on yesterday and gave the ball away in a good position at one point, which thankfully Fulham didn't capitalize on.
While our side is really struggling at the moment, I'm not sure what difference Lowton will actually make. He's a player who's clearly short on confidence himself. There also appears to be something between him and the gaffer. He's not far off having been treated like one of the bomb squad. What's gone on is anyones guess.
The fact Herdy came in and got a game over him spoke volumes. In fairness to Herdy I thought he was the best (of a bad bunch) at the back yesterday. What I do like about Herd, and why I wouldn't mind slipping him into midfield, is his commitment and attitude. That said, they lad went off injured again. If he fell into a barrel of boobs he'd come out sucking his thumb.
Lowton Made a difference against Cardiff i felt - bacuna was shocking at right back yesterday , more effective in midfield .
yes this is a reason to give Lowton a run out , as Bacuna is more effective there than RB and we cant judge people on ten minutes here and there as sub , give Lowton a few games to see how hes going.
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Whilst we were poor the Ref has done us out of a point , possibly all 3.
I think Fulham would still have found a way through to be honest. The ref was bloody shocking but we didn't deserve anything out the game sadly. Had we played even anywhere approaching mediocre I'd be really pissed off about that reffing display, as it was we were that bad it's not really bothered me too much.
Agreed. They could have had more. We barely looked like scoring. Again.
Guzans save from Berbatov in the first half was world class. So we're damn lucky to have a top keeper as well.
Agree with silhillvilla and don't agree with Meanwood Villa and supertom twice! Nothing lucky about a GK making a save. Fulham were very lucky that the ref was partially blind.
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If you watched MOTD 2 last night, Alan Hansen perfectly analysed Bacuna's positional weakness (and therefore Villa achilles heel) at right-back. He was starting far too high up the field for a full-back playing in a back 4. Lowton is very good at getting forward from deep-positions, whereas Bacuna very much looks like a winger playing at right-back. Whilst it was the penalty decision was a dreadful one, Bacuna shouldn't have been caught wrong-side of his man in that position in the first place.
It's made even more frustrating by the fact that Wiemann is currently not bringing anything to the side in an attacking side.
For me, next week's team picks itself after yesterday;
Guzan; Lowton, Vlaar, Clark, Luna; Tonev/El Ahmadi, Delph, Westwood, Bacuna; Benteke, Agbonlahor.
Delph is suspended and theres doubt Vlaar will be fit
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Whilst we were poor the Ref has done us out of a point , possibly all 3.
I think Fulham would still have found a way through to be honest. The ref was bloody shocking but we didn't deserve anything out the game sadly. Had we played even anywhere approaching mediocre I'd be really pissed off about that reffing display, as it was we were that bad it's not really bothered me too much.
Agreed. They could have had more. We barely looked like scoring. Again.
Guzans save from Berbatov in the first half was world class. So we're damn lucky to have a top keeper as well.
Agree with silhillvilla and don't agree with Meanwood Villa and supertom twice! Nothing lucky about a GK making a save. Fulham were very lucky that the ref was partially blind.
wouldnt have made no difference , fulham hit the post , we cleared off the line, they were much better than us. We were clueless most the match.
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wouldnt have made no difference , fulham hit the post , we cleared off the line, they were much better than us. We were clueless most the match.
All of that doesn't stop a football team from winning a game if the right calls are made by the officials. Clearing off the line is the player's job. Post is there for a reason.
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Another poor shapeless performance, we look like a McLeish team again, lacking in any quality.
If Man Utd play Giggs on Sunday he will dominate the game.
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wouldnt have made no difference , fulham hit the post , we cleared off the line, they were much better than us. We were clueless most the match.
All of that doesn't stop a football team from winning a game if the right calls are made by the officials. Clearing off the line is the player's job. Post is there for a reason.
, I felt we were outclassed all over the pitch and 2-0 flattered us - the Fulham penalty was harsh and we should have had one but I have no real complaints about the result - the better team won and we got exactly what deserved.
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wouldnt have made no difference , fulham hit the post , we cleared off the line, they were much better than us. We were clueless most the match.
All of that doesn't stop a football team from winning a game if the right calls are made by the officials. Clearing off the line is the player's job. Post is there for a reason.
we need to sort the team out first, get them to pass the ball to each other more than 3 times , refs will always make these mistakes . We were robbed at Chelsea , yet I was proud after the game with the way the lads played , yesterday I was just frustrated with the pile of poo I witnessed. The ref got it wrong but Im more concerned with our team at the moment.
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We didn't get exactly what we deserved. We deserved better from match officials. 3 wrong calls were made. These are the facts rest is just possibilities.
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we need to sort the team out first, get them to pass the ball to each other more than 3 times , refs will always make these mistakes . We were robbed at Chelsea , yet I was proud after the game with the way the lads played , yesterday I was just frustrated with the pile of poo I witnessed. The ref got it wrong but Im more concerned with our team at the moment.
That's fair enough and I understand your frustration however it's not correct say "it would have made no difference"
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we need to sort the team out first, get them to pass the ball to each other more than 3 times , refs will always make these mistakes . We were robbed at Chelsea , yet I was proud after the game with the way the lads played , yesterday I was just frustrated with the pile of poo I witnessed. The ref got it wrong but Im more concerned with our team at the moment.
That's fair enough and I understand your frustration however it's not correct say "it would have made no difference"
It may have made a difference, it would certainly have papered over the cracks.
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We didn't get exactly what we deserved. We deserved better from match officials. 3 wrong calls were made. These are the facts rest is just possibilities.
there was a hand ball by a Villa player a few weeks ago If seen , it would have been a penalty and we probably would have lost the game.
swings and roundabouts . we will get dodgy decisions at another time through the season , they level them self out , which doesnt excuse the refs of course.
but we were awful , Im not blaming the ref for our rubbish performance . Im blaming most the players , the manager and coaching team.
p.s Benteke to score the pen If given . fuck knows ;)
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The way I saw it was if their's was a penalty then so was Gabby's. But in truth i thought both were soft calls and neither should have been.
We got what we deserved for another wretched performance regardless.
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Well yesterday's performance is one way to stop flares being let off in the away end.
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swings and roundabouts . we will get dodgy decisions at another time through the season , they level them self out , which doesnt excuse the refs of course.
I'm not sure things do even themselves out over a season. Not due to any bias but the better teams put the ball in the area more than shit teams. Ditto, the more possession you have the more you'll get fouled. It's percentages.
I think we will more frequently see decisions go against us if we are happy to concede possession and territory which is another reason to encourage the team to try and control possession more.
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The way I saw it was if their's was a penalty then so was Gabby's. But in truth i thought both were soft calls and neither should have been.
We got what we deserved for another wretched performance regardless.
I think you need to look at the penalty incidents again.
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The way I saw it was if their's was a penalty then so was Gabby's. But in truth i thought both were soft calls and neither should have been.
We got what we deserved for another wretched performance regardless.
I think you need to look at the penalty incidents again.
What for ?
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The way I saw it was if their's was a penalty then so was Gabby's. But in truth i thought both were soft calls and neither should have been.
We got what we deserved for another wretched performance regardless.
I think you need to look at the penalty incidents again.
What for ?
If you think the foul on Agbonlahor wasn't a penalty, you need to look at it again.
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Gabby's was a penalty. I had a great view of it and so did the ref who bottled out of it by looking over to his linesman when he didn't need to. The linesman in turn bottled it as well. I didn't think there's was a pen though although they could have had one before that for a push on Berbatov I think.
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There was never a peanlty. It was an appalling decision.
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As bad as we were yesterday, if we'd have pulled a goal back I think they would have wobbled. We just didn't look like scoring though.
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swings and roundabouts . we will get dodgy decisions at another time through the season , they level them self out , which doesnt excuse the refs of course.
I'm not sure things do even themselves out over a season. Not due to any bias but the better teams put the ball in the area more than shit teams. Ditto, the more possession you have the more you'll get fouled. It's percentages.
I think we will more frequently see decisions go against us if we are happy to concede possession and territory which is another reason to encourage the team to try and control possession more.
Dante , yes youre probaly right but all Im trying to do is point out that the poor ref decisions does not hide the fact we , the manager , the team are all pretty useless at the moment and people keep saying If it wasnt for the ref we might have got a result . Yes , we might , a very big If and yes If Benteke actually scored the penalty but we were still pathetic . Im more concerned with the defending , the passing , keeping the ball , people out of form playing and players taking dead balls when they should not.
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I honestly think Paul Lambert has got MO'N syndrome when it comes to signing big players. He doesn't want anyone in there who could be perceived as being bigger than him. I think a Barry type signing would have made a huge difference to us in games like yesterday. Or of course the wage structure imposed could be a factor - just get the impression he woudn't bring big names in even if he could.
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we're a mid table team doing what mid table teams do. Lose some, win some. We'll win some we shouldn't, we'll also lose some we shouldn't. We'll have very little consistency as will all of those sides around us. Yesterday we lost one that on form we shouldn't but against a side that has the quality in their squad to be exactly where we are this season. Fulham had massively underperformed under Jol. I expect that in January we'll have more points and be sitting close to where we are now. We'll pick up some wins and we'll be happy at times and wondering how the fuck did we do that? Then there will be games where we lose and the sky falls in.
The turning point for us will be when Benteke returns to any sort of form. The drop off has been stunning and is affecting everyone in the side. That for me is very evident to see. When you think what he was doing last season and immediately prior to his injury it's amazing to think how low his confidence is right now. Fix that, and a lot of things fall back into place. He was doing things instinctively last season. Right now he isn't sure of the most basic aspects of his game. As Benteke goes we go and our opponents are finding us very easy to defend against when the beast isn't the beast.
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If Benteke was putting in the same kind of effort he was last season it might have an effect...
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There was never a peanlty. It was an appalling decision.
I wouldn't say appalling , but harsh yes.
The sort of pen that home teams may get but away teams wouldn't .
Appalling decisions are those in cases of diving or handballs that aren't - I'd say this was more on the 50/50 category, favouring the home side.
No doubt the gabby one should have been a pen but I'm not too worried about the decisions as we deserved to get beat with that display.
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It's too easy to say the poor performances are a result of Benteke's loss of form. What about Weimann, Westwood, KEA etc? When are they gonna put a shift in? If anything, I feel sorry for Benteke, it can't be easy playing with players who play like they haven't seen a ball before in their life.
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we're a mid table team doing what mid table teams do. Lose some, win some. We'll win some we shouldn't, we'll also lose some we shouldn't. We'll have very little consistency as will all of those sides around us. Yesterday we lost one that on form we shouldn't but against a side that has the quality in their squad to be exactly where we are this season. Fulham had massively underperformed under Jol. I expect that in January we'll have more points and be sitting close to where we are now. We'll pick up some wins and we'll be happy at times and wondering how the fuck did we do that? Then there will be games where we lose and the sky falls in.
The turning point for us will be when Benteke returns to any sort of form. The drop off has been stunning and is affecting everyone in the side. That for me is very evident to see. When you think what he was doing last season and immediately prior to his injury it's amazing to think how low his confidence is right now. Fix that, and a lot of things fall back into place. He was doing things instinctively last season. Right now he isn't sure of the most basic aspects of his game. As Benteke goes we go and our opponents are finding us very easy to defend against when the beast isn't the beast.
Are we "a mid table team doing what mid table teams do", though? Or are we an experimental team doing what no other established PL club has done before by steadfastly refusing to bring in players with proven PL experience?
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It's too easy to say the poor performances are a result of Benteke's loss of form. What about Weimann, Westwood, KEA etc? When are they gonna put a shift in? If anything, I feel sorry for Benteke, it can't be easy playing with players who play like they haven't seen a ball before in their life.
not one of those guys are remotely as important to us as Benteke. He elevates their games as all great players do for the lesser players around them. He not only makes things happen for himself with a moment of sheer genius but his play and intelligence makes it that much easier for the others. Look at the second goal Weimann scored against Sunderland last year and how Benteke took two players with him opening space for Weimann to receive Lowton's pass in acres of space. Look at the back heel at Anfield. Those things happen because Benteke is occupying the thoughts of the opposition defenders and doing things most others can't or don't even think of doing. I'm not making an excuse for basic things like our recent inability to pass 5yds to a player of the same shirt colour. It is a much bigger picture statement. As a mid table team with a superstar player playing at his peak will elevate to the fringes of the group ahead of us and separate us completely from the mess below.
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we're a mid table team doing what mid table teams do. Lose some, win some. We'll win some we shouldn't, we'll also lose some we shouldn't. We'll have very little consistency as will all of those sides around us. Yesterday we lost one that on form we shouldn't but against a side that has the quality in their squad to be exactly where we are this season. Fulham had massively underperformed under Jol. I expect that in January we'll have more points and be sitting close to where we are now. We'll pick up some wins and we'll be happy at times and wondering how the fuck did we do that? Then there will be games where we lose and the sky falls in.
The turning point for us will be when Benteke returns to any sort of form. The drop off has been stunning and is affecting everyone in the side. That for me is very evident to see. When you think what he was doing last season and immediately prior to his injury it's amazing to think how low his confidence is right now. Fix that, and a lot of things fall back into place. He was doing things instinctively last season. Right now he isn't sure of the most basic aspects of his game. As Benteke goes we go and our opponents are finding us very easy to defend against when the beast isn't the beast.
Are we "a mid table team doing what mid table teams do", though? Or are we an experimental team doing what no other established PL club has done before by steadfastly refusing to bring in players with proven PL experience?
I think the table doesn't lie. It's easy to look at our flaws and say we've been lucky. But others teams for whatever reason haven't been able to capitalise. Part of that is luck, part of that is because we've improved. A mid table team almost by definition hasn't got everything right and sit in that position because they themselves are completely unpredicatable one week to next. The other aspect is just that we've gone about getting to where we are in a very non traditional manner. At times last season we looked spectacular; good and bad. We've matured a little now where we are neither spectacularly good or bad. We haven't hit the heights of some of our best games and are nowhere close to the depths of our worst moments.
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It's too easy to say the poor performances are a result of Benteke's loss of form. What about Weimann, Westwood, KEA etc? When are they gonna put a shift in? If anything, I feel sorry for Benteke, it can't be easy playing with players who play like they haven't seen a ball before in their life.
not one of those guys are remotely as important to us as Benteke. He elevates their games as all great players do for the lesser players around them. He not only makes things happen for himself with a moment of sheer genius but his play and intelligence makes it that much easier for the others. Look at the second goal Weimann scored against Sunderland last year and how Benteke took two players with him opening space for Weimann to receive Lowton's pass in acres of space. Look at the back heel at Anfield. Those things happen because Benteke is occupying the thoughts of the opposition defenders and doing things most others can't or don't even think of doing. I'm not making an excuse for basic things like our recent inability to pass 5yds to a player of the same shirt colour. It is a much bigger picture statement. As a mid table team with a superstar player playing at his peak will elevate to the fringes of the group ahead of us and separate us completely from the mess below.
But we should be able to cope when Benteke isn't playing well. That's my main issue with Lambert, there's no plan B at all.
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They're not as important as Benteke, no, but they are when they all lose form at the same time.
I have to say, I am not too sure how much players being out of form explains or justifies some of the awful football. Isn't the manager's job supposed to be to get these players in form? Surely it's not something which just happens and lasts as long as it can, without managerial interference?
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It's too easy to say the poor performances are a result of Benteke's loss of form. What about Weimann, Westwood, KEA etc? When are they gonna put a shift in? If anything, I feel sorry for Benteke, it can't be easy playing with players who play like they haven't seen a ball before in their life.
I feel for him too. That said he won a lot of games by himself last season. Again we know he's a class above any of our outfield players on form, so the sooner he gets back to that the better.
The way we're playing, in part because some of the players aren't quite good enough at this level, we do need him to get back on form. An on form Tekkers could have scored 2-3 against Fulham, then we'd have all had a more pleasant Sunday evening.
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It's too easy to say the poor performances are a result of Benteke's loss of form. What about Weimann, Westwood, KEA etc? When are they gonna put a shift in? If anything, I feel sorry for Benteke, it can't be easy playing with players who play like they haven't seen a ball before in their life.
not one of those guys are remotely as important to us as Benteke. He elevates their games as all great players do for the lesser players around them. He not only makes things happen for himself with a moment of sheer genius but his play and intelligence makes it that much easier for the others. Look at the second goal Weimann scored against Sunderland last year and how Benteke took two players with him opening space for Weimann to receive Lowton's pass in acres of space. Look at the back heel at Anfield. Those things happen because Benteke is occupying the thoughts of the opposition defenders and doing things most others can't or don't even think of doing. I'm not making an excuse for basic things like our recent inability to pass 5yds to a player of the same shirt colour. It is a much bigger picture statement. As a mid table team with a superstar player playing at his peak will elevate to the fringes of the group ahead of us and separate us completely from the mess below.
But we should be able to cope when Benteke isn't playing well. That's my main issue with Lambert, there's no plan B at all.
Right now I'm more concerned with Plan A.
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They're not as important as Benteke, no, but they are when they all lose form at the same time.
I have to say, I am not too sure how much players being out of form explains or justifies some of the awful football. Isn't the manager's job supposed to be to get these players in form? Surely it's not something which just happens and lasts as long as it can, without managerial interference?
That they don't look like they know what they're supposed to be doing once they get over the half way line is a big problem. Again, too much youth only adds to a lack of composure I suppose. Ultimately it does fall at Lamberts feet. The fact a Villa player gets on the ball, just has to roll it 5 yards to a team mate but somehow can't manage it, is inexcusable. I'm still utterly flabbergasted at how laughable our throw-ins are too. It's comically bad and has been all season. Luna in particular is woeful. When he's not foul throwing (I've seen him do it 2-3 times this season), he's tossing it straight to the opposition. It's bizarre.
The fact we don't appear to know what we're doing is more a cause for bad form in some players as opposed to a symptom I feel.
I still hold onto the hope that Lambert manage to identify a way of attacking effectively last season, and also did something to make our defence better in the summer, and hope that he can sort the mess out. If we can even start getting some basics right that'll be a start.
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On the plus side our team full of inneffectual, out of form, youthful, naive players are comfortably in mid table whereas the likes of Fulham and West Ham are struggling to avoid the drop and paying enormous wages to the likes of Berbatov, Sidwell, Parker, Bent, Rodallega, Collins, J Cole, Downing, Carroll, Nolan etc etc. Their wage bills must be far higher than ours. I know we're not tearing up any trees, but even when we had experienced high earning players we were doing worse than this and struggling to stay up with the likes of Dunne, Collins, Ireland etc.
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It's too easy to say the poor performances are a result of Benteke's loss of form. What about Weimann, Westwood, KEA etc? When are they gonna put a shift in? If anything, I feel sorry for Benteke, it can't be easy playing with players who play like they haven't seen a ball before in their life.
not one of those guys are remotely as important to us as Benteke. He elevates their games as all great players do for the lesser players around them. He not only makes things happen for himself with a moment of sheer genius but his play and intelligence makes it that much easier for the others. Look at the second goal Weimann scored against Sunderland last year and how Benteke took two players with him opening space for Weimann to receive Lowton's pass in acres of space. Look at the back heel at Anfield. Those things happen because Benteke is occupying the thoughts of the opposition defenders and doing things most others can't or don't even think of doing. I'm not making an excuse for basic things like our recent inability to pass 5yds to a player of the same shirt colour. It is a much bigger picture statement. As a mid table team with a superstar player playing at his peak will elevate to the fringes of the group ahead of us and separate us completely from the mess below.
But we should be able to cope when Benteke isn't playing well. That's my main issue with Lambert, there's no plan B at all.
we should you're right but it isn't always as straightforward as that and especially when you're plan A when it works is very good. When it has collapsed as it has it affects everything else. I don't know of many teams that have a Plan B anything close to as effective as their primary strategy. The very best teams have the depth that the drop off isn't as drastic.
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They're not as important as Benteke, no, but they are when they all lose form at the same time.
I have to say, I am not too sure how much players being out of form explains or justifies some of the awful football. Isn't the manager's job supposed to be to get these players in form? Surely it's not something which just happens and lasts as long as it can, without managerial interference?
that's what bothers me the most is that collectively we've all but forgotten the very basics. Surely the intent to defend better or that the star striker isn't on form doesn't equal us being unable to string two or three passes together. It's like everyone has suddenly become the anti-Spaniard Carlos Cuellar when controlling the football.
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we're a mid table team doing what mid table teams do. Lose some, win some. We'll win some we shouldn't, we'll also lose some we shouldn't. We'll have very little consistency as will all of those sides around us. Yesterday we lost one that on form we shouldn't but against a side that has the quality in their squad to be exactly where we are this season. Fulham had massively underperformed under Jol. I expect that in January we'll have more points and be sitting close to where we are now. We'll pick up some wins and we'll be happy at times and wondering how the fuck did we do that? Then there will be games where we lose and the sky falls in.
The turning point for us will be when Benteke returns to any sort of form. The drop off has been stunning and is affecting everyone in the side. That for me is very evident to see. When you think what he was doing last season and immediately prior to his injury it's amazing to think how low his confidence is right now. Fix that, and a lot of things fall back into place. He was doing things instinctively last season. Right now he isn't sure of the most basic aspects of his game. As Benteke goes we go and our opponents are finding us very easy to defend against when the beast isn't the beast.
Are we "a mid table team doing what mid table teams do", though? Or are we an experimental team doing what no other established PL club has done before by steadfastly refusing to bring in players with proven PL experience?
I think the table doesn't lie. It's easy to look at our flaws and say we've been lucky. But others teams for whatever reason haven't been able to capitalise. Part of that is luck, part of that is because we've improved. A mid table team almost by definition hasn't got everything right and sit in that position because they themselves are completely unpredicatable one week to next. The other aspect is just that we've gone about getting to where we are in a very non traditional manner. At times last season we looked spectacular; good and bad. We've matured a little now where we are neither spectacularly good or bad. We haven't hit the heights of some of our best games and are nowhere close to the depths of our worst moments.
I don't think we have been lucky; for example, I was in a distinct minority in refusing to so describe the victory against Man City. But I think saying what is happening is just typical of a mid table side is not accurate.
Thanks to the symbiosis of RL's experience with MoN and PL's Dortmund vision thing (DVT), we are embarked on a bold experiment which, as far as I can tell, has never worked in the PL to date. The theory is that it will come good at some point in the future when the young players bought from lower leagues get up to speed, and the bargains from abroad acclimatise. No panic buying for us, as graphically demonstrated during the last January window.
I am quite sure if Okore had not got that injury, and Vlaar had stayed fot, things would be considerably different.
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I think it is more of a dedicated strategy than an experiment. I don't think the manager and board sat around a table and said "let's try this today or this season". I think they have a plan and we are in the middle of it. Much of it hasn't come off, some things are better than expected. In some areas we've regressed. If players were on form and healthy we'd be a bit further ahead than we are now. But not much further.
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I am quite sure if Okore had not got that injury, and Vlaar had stayed fot, things would be considerably different.
Vlaar has only missed 1.5 matches, though, and we won one of them, so not really sure that's made much difference?
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I am quite sure if Okore had not got that injury, and Vlaar had stayed fot, things would be considerably different.
Vlaar has only missed 1.5 matches, though, and we won one of them, so not really sure that's made much difference?
More to do with the reaction on here to the performance of the defence in the last 1.5 games without him, and the prospect of him missing for much longer.
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I am quite sure if Okore had not got that injury, and Vlaar had stayed fot, things would be considerably different.
Vlaar has only missed 1.5 matches, though, and we won one of them, so not really sure that's made much difference?
More to do with the reaction on here to the performance of the defence in the last 1.5 games without him, and the prospect of him missing for much longer.
I think it's the full backs that give more concern rather than the central defenders. Obviously Vlaar is important, especially as he's actually found some form but overall I and I think most on here were pleased with the performances of Clark and Herd.
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I didn't see the whole game yesterday because I was at work. I managed to listen to it on the radio on & off, and it did sound dreadful.
However, I have to put this out there, even though I know it has little chance of meaning anything to anybody, it did occur to me that it might mean something....
I watched MOTD2 when I got in, & we looked alright! Bear with me - I know it's only a few minutes of a whole 90. None the less, isn't it of some possible significance that we had a pretty much even share of the 'highlights' of a match we lost 2-0 & had very little play in?
As a group of supporters we have always held a fairly high level of conviction that MOTD has some kind of vendetta against us. So why, did they decide to show us as having a fairly even game when we all (including me from the radio) witnessed us never being in it?
It just left me thinking, that maybe a bit like the Southampton game, the other team had the ball a lot, but we didn't really allow them to do much with it. The highlights would bear this out. The match highlights showed us creating as much as them, and them getting a dodgy penalty, and us not getting a stick on. So perhaps we had a good share of the 'significant' play in that game. So maybe not so bad.
We're not very pretty, but we're probably not shit. I still think we will improve again in the latter half of this season, and it'll look a little better than the latter half of last season.
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I didn't see the whole game yesterday because I was at work. I managed to listen to it on the radio on & off, and it did sound dreadful.
However, I have to put this out there, even though I know it has little chance of meaning anything to anybody, it did occur to me that it might mean something....
I watched MOTD2 when I got in, & we looked alright! Bear with me - I know it's only a few minutes of a whole 90. None the less, isn't it of some possible significance that we had a pretty much even share of the 'highlights' of a match we lost 2-0 & had very little play in?
As a group of supporters we have always held a fairly high level of conviction that MOTD has some kind of vendetta against us. So why, did they decide to show us as having a fairly even game when we all (including me from the radio) witnessed us never being in it?
It just left me thinking, that maybe a bit like the Southampton game, the other team had the ball a lot, but we didn't really allow them to do much with it. The highlights would bear this out. The match highlights showed us creating as much as them, and them getting a dodgy penalty, and us not getting a stick on. So perhaps we had a good share of the 'significant' play in that game. So maybe not so bad.
We're not very pretty, but we're probably not shit. I still think we will improve again in the latter half of this season, and it'll look a little better than the latter half of last season.
I didn't see motd las night but if they showed it as looking pretty even then I'd say they've been very generous to us - I thought Fulham were the better team by a distance in virtually every position .
To be honest I thought the score line flattered us losing 2-0.
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I'm with Eastie, I sat right behind the goal at that they scored in and they really could have had a few more. We had a couple of good early chances for Benteke, and then nothing until the last 15 minutes. That said it was long balls forward that caught us out most of the time, and the full backs getting caught too narrow. Brad made some good saves but didn't cover himself in glory for sidwell's goal - a bit like Long's second v WBA, not out nearly quick enough. All we did second half was punt it straight onto Aaron Hughes head, until Lowton and Alby came on then we showed far more promise. But we were very poor and well beaten. Once they had the lead, the onus was on us to break them down and we are not very good at that are we? Never a pen though and definitely one for Gabby.
I will be bold enough to say I don;t think we'd have lost with Vlaar on the pitch.
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I like your reasoning Amfy and you raise an interesting point re MOTD's neutrality - they had no need to big us up.
I guess the fact that there were only 2 games meant they could show more of the game than they would do on a Saturday. In reality I think we had 2 shots on target (the second from Benteke in injury time) whilst Guzan made a few decent saves, they hit the woodwork twice and had a couple cleared off the line. I could rant at the ref - in fact I did rant at the ref! - but in reality we were well below par and were second best. Most worrying of all was our inability to pass, move and retain possession, with a surfeit of aimless, depressing long balls.
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I can well imagine why anyone who had already seen the whole thing, which would be most of us, would give MOTD2 a miss last night. I'd only heard it & I didn't want to watch it - it was only because it was on almost as soon as I switched on the telly when I got in from work.
They showed a few of those chances that the stats miss, and no one seems to count anymore, because they're not stats.......those ones where it whizzes across the face of the goal, but no-one quite gets to it. To be fair, in the highlights no-one got anywhere near it, but I still think those are better chances than those tame 'shots on target' which may as we'll be a back pass. When the ball is zipped across the face of the goal ke that it can go anywhere - you don't even need one of your own players to get on the end of it, because they are own goals waiting to happen. Anyway - we did a few of those according to the highlights, and the movement in the build up was pretty incisive fast & exciting.
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I can well imagine why anyone who had already seen the whole thing, which would be most of us, would give MOTD2 a miss last night. I'd only heard it & I didn't want to watch it - it was only because it was on almost as soon as I switched on the telly when I got in from work.
They showed a few of those chances that the stats miss, and no one seems to count anymore, because they're not stats.......those ones where it whizzes across the face of the goal, but no-one quite gets to it. To be fair, in the highlights no-one got anywhere near it, but I still think those are better chances than those tame 'shots on target' which may as we'll be a back pass. When the ball is zipped across the face of the goal ke that it can go anywhere - you don't even need one of your own players to get on the end of it, because they are own goals waiting to happen. Anyway - we did a few of those according to the highlights, and the movement in the build up was pretty incisive fast & exciting.
Fulham had loads of low crosses into the box and I was concerned how easy it was for them to get crosses in - our full backs were very poor closing them down - i thought herd and Clark coped admirably as they were under the cosh for long periods and made some great tackles and blocks at times.
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anyone ever hear what happened to Kozak?
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anyone ever hear what happened to Kozak?
Toe knack.
Reckons he'll be back in a week, he hopes. On twitter today.
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I take your point Amfy but having sat through the whole sorry debacle and watched MOTD2 this morning, I think they showed virtually every single little bit of our attacking play whereas Fulham had far more in and around our box than they showed. However I would agree with you that we had a couple of decent chances early on and if we had taken the lead, I think we would probably have gone on to win the match. However as it panned out, they got the first goal which should have been stopped, then a penalty shortly after which was a very benevolent decision and from then on decided basically to say to us, "come on then try and score if you can" and we simply did not have any ideas by way of movement, swift passing, etc to find a way through them and create a decent opening, instead resorting to our usual MO of hoofball.
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anyone ever hear what happened to Kozak?
Toe knack.
Reckons he'll be back in a week, he hopes. On twitter today.
ah...he might have been more effective than those who ended up playing even with a buggered toe. Anyway, what kind of pussy calls off sick with a toe problem?
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anyone ever hear what happened to Kozak?
Toe knack.
Reckons he'll be back in a week, he hopes. On twitter today.
ah...he might have been more effective than those who ended up playing even with a buggered toe. Anyway, what kind of pussy calls off sick with a toe problem?
Duchess of York had all sorts of grief with a toe problem (think Texan millionaire).
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anyone ever hear what happened to Kozak?
Toe knack.
Reckons he'll be back in a week, he hopes. On twitter today.
ah...he might have been more effective than those who ended up playing even with a buggered toe. Anyway, what kind of pussy calls off sick with a toe problem?
Duchess of York had all sorts of grief with a toe problem (think Texan millionaire).
Not to mention David Mellor in a Chesea shirt and Antonia de Sancha with a toe sucking incident.
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MOTD pretty flattering towards us tbh - it wasn't that even on the Sunday afternoon that i spent at Fulham!
But - still can't believe the poor penalty decisions that were/weren't given - the Fulham player backs into Bacuna then bounces off him on to the floor. What was it that Dean saw? Perhaps Gabby's flailing arms made it look a bit overcooked but it was a foul - Hughes "attempted" to go for the ball, missed it and caught Gabby smack on top of his ankle. Clear from where I was standing (sitting, Stewards, sitting!). Berbatov "made a back" for Herd on at least two occasions and committed a couple of "lazy, routine" fouls. AND kicked out at Herd while he was on the floor. Ref speaks to him twice but no further action. Can't remember what Delph was booked for now.
Tears made my view a bit swirly! ;-)
And I am fully expecting at least TWO apologies from the ex-ref/ref spokesman bloke for Dean's shit decisions.
Any day now....
Bound to happen...
Just waiting...
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Ahhh well - thank you everyone for clearing that up without laughing me off the thread! Having not seen the whole thing, it was worth me checking it out!
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Wade Elliott was in the same carriage as us on the train from Moor St to Marylebone and when we arrived he met up with Nikola Zigic who was already on the concourse, and a couple of other scum players.
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I am quite sure if Okore had not got that injury, and Vlaar had stayed fot, things would be considerably different.
Vlaar has only missed 1.5 matches, though, and we won one of them, so not really sure that's made much difference?
More to do with the reaction on here to the performance of the defence in the last 1.5 games without him, and the prospect of him missing for much longer.
I think it's the full backs that give more concern rather than the central defenders. Obviously Vlaar is important, especially as he's actually found some form but overall I and I think most on here were pleased with the performances of Clark and Herd.
Agree with that. It seems to be in vogue at the moment in the Premier League to have full backs who are better at going forward than defending, but seeing as ours don't get forward all that well, I'd prefer to see a couple of steady types back there. In Guzan, Vlaar and Okore, we've got a solid base - add two solid full-backs who can defend either side and we'd be a lot stronger back there. Wonder what Earl Barrett and Alan Wright are doing these days?
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Our fullbacks are terrible defensively and not great going forward.
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Our fullbacks are terrible defensively and not great going forward.
Bacunas barely been over the half way line in recent games.