Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Loxton01 on December 05, 2013, 09:53:55 AM
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So we are 14 games in and have 19 points. Having played all of the current top 8 within those 14 games the start we have had is impressive.
In comparable games this time last season against these top eight clubs we would have 0 points [I think]. This is compared to nine this season.
With the players we have brought in and the appeared budget now operated at the club the current position of the 10th is extremely encouraging.
We have 5 clean sheets in 14 games the same as the whole of last season.
For many the style and performance level this season has been disappointing particularly at home however we need to get a reality check that we do not have a define right to beat any teams in this league. We have a squad in my opinion comparable to the likes of WBA, Sunderland, Fulham, Stoke and West Ham and we are out performing all of them currently.
Many at the start of the season said a 10-12th position this season would be real progress and if we achieve this that would be huge progress. One of the huge criticisms last season was how easily it was to score against us..... that has improved although I admit there is much work still to be done.
Last season I would argue we had three players who were proven top 10 premiership quality in Gabby [on his day], Guzan and Benteke. This season I would add Delph and Vlaar to this category. This gives us a spine to work from.
What needs to become clear after we rid ourselves of Bent, Given, NZog and Ireland which Im sure we are still paying most of there wages is will Lambo be able to go out and spend 20-30m and bring in 3-4 players of proven 1st Team quality. If so we can then 'go' again.
I also think come next summer Lambo needs to take a long look at the Likes of Albrighton, Bowery, Herd, Bennett et al if he doesnt rate them he needs to rid of them as they are gathering cobwebs and taking up wages.
Lambo had a real job when he came in to strip everything right back in this greed league instant success is all that matters, however I do feel inch by inch we are getting there. I can see it taking a long time with a fair bit of pain and ups and downs along the way but PROGRESS is being made
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Cant disagree with anything there. Certainly if we end up around the same position then it definitely will be progress. Any idea where we were after 14 games last season?
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Yes it is progress, the results prove that. We have to hope that Lambert addresses the areas where we have problems that is mainly the two full back posistions then we will make further progress.
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Cant disagree with anything there. Certainly if we end up around the same position then it definitely will be progress. Any idea where we were after 14 games last season?
We were 17th with 13 points!
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Cant disagree with anything there. Certainly if we end up around the same position then it definitely will be progress. Any idea where we were after 14 games last season?
17th
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We may have progressed from last year but it's bloody frustrating.
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Yes it is progress, the results prove that. We have to hope that Lambert addresses the areas where we have problems that is mainly the two full back posistions then we will make further progress.
I doubt that too be honest, i think Luna & Bacuna/Lowton are the kind of full backs he likes. Surely it's that creative midfielder that's the target in January and possibly a centre half, maybe on loan, depending on Vlaar's injury.
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The defence being more solid and points tally is a big bonus. However we do need to start retaining possession and creating a lot more if we're going to progress. At the moment if we can't counter attack, we struggle to create anything of note. We need to start working possession through the midfield and creating chances through the middle. We also desperately need Vlaar to be fit as he's been pivotal to the improved defence.
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Just looking at last seasons stats, it was the New Years Day draw at Swansea that got us to 19 points.
That's 7 more games than it took this season.
Plus January was a shocking month (as I'm sure we all still have nightmares about).
After the 3-3 at Everton, we had played 25 games and only had 21 points.
It's certainly not been pretty to watch this season, particularly for those of us who only tend to go to home matches, but you can't argue with the facts.
We are definitely moving in the right direction.
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After last night, I'm beginning to think that Lambert's approach may have changed somewhat. Last season we played more attractive passing football in the centre of the park and it was our woeful defending that did for us. The defence has improved, I think Vlaar's performances this year have been a big difference, hopefully he's not out for too long.
For large parts of last night our football was abysmal, (pass completion was below 50% I believe?) but three classic breakaway goals and we get a very good 3 points. The team spirit that LAmbert has created is obviously excellent, Delph last night said they are like "brothers" and I think this is visible that they really do keep going. That has really been evident this season. We are progressing, slowly.
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Just looking at last seasons stats, it was the New Years Day draw at Swansea that got us to 19 points.
That's 7 more games than it took this season.
Plus January was a shocking month (as I'm sure we all still have nightmares about).
After the 3-3 at Everton, we had played 25 games and only had 21 points.
It's certainly not been pretty to watch this season, particularly for those of us who only tend to go to home matches, but you can't argue with the facts.
We are definitely moving in the right direction.
I posted the stats of 14 games vs 14 games last season on the transition thread last night, but as uncomfortable as the football as been, 5 more scored and I think 6 less conceded in those games, 6 more points and having played the sides we have, the progress is stark. I think the last 3 months of the season, played in a cavalier swashbuckling was, clouded the memories of how poor we were at times in the first half of the season. We have now found bottle and heart, and know that the skill is there in many of them that we are not seeing it in at the moment. Individual form is temporary, and we will play better football when our better players play themselves back into form and Lambert finds a couple of attacking midfielder to help us keep hold of the ball better.
If we win (and I don't think we will) against Fulham it will have taken us 15 games to top what it took us 25 to do last season. Not bad really.
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I am very happy with the progress. I would just like to win a few more home games as my two juniors attend every home game and so far they have not had much to shout about other than Mancity and Cardiff wins. I was disappointed with our meek exit in the League cup so the priority for the next 10 games is 15 points and 2 FA cup wins.
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I am very happy with the progress. I would just like to win a few more home games as my two juniors attend every home game and so far they have not had much to shout about other than Mancity and Cardiff wins. I was disappointed with our meek exit in the League cup so the priority for the next 10 games is 15 points and 2 FA cup wins.
I like your thinking , you are a cool cat affers and have set an achievable target .
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I am very happy with the progress. I would just like to win a few more home games as my two juniors attend every home game and so far they have not had much to shout about other than Mancity and Cardiff wins. I was disappointed with our meek exit in the League cup so the priority for the next 10 games is 15 points and 2 FA cup wins.
I like your thinking , you are a cool cat affers and have set an achievable target .
Yep that would be realistic I think. We'd be well on our way to a solid haul of around 45-55 points, which would put us somewhere between 8th and 12th depending how well we've done. That would be good progress. A good cup run would be good, and as long as it doesn't have an adverse effect on our league form, it will be great. The pleasing thing is that Kozak, effectively our second choice main striker, looks like he's got goals in him. If Benteke were to be back in form for example, I'd happily call upon Kozak in cup games for example. Likewise, who knows a good draw against a lower league club could be ample time to introduce Helenius and get a bit of confidence for him.
Importantly we have options now and we aren't short of players who are willing to work very hard when given the chance.
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Interesting piece -
By James Nursey | 05/12/13
A stunning 3-2 away win at Southampton means Aston Villa fans and neutrals are starting to wake up to Paul Lambert's quiet revolution.
I wrote last week how I have been impressed with Villa's steady - if unspectacular - progress under the Scot despite not spending big.
He has assembled a competitive, promising side on the cheap with a good future ahead of them collectively and individually.
But it is only when you get an impressive win that the majority of people probably start to acknowledge Villa's progress.
Victory on the South Coast does not mean Villa are now going to definitely qualify for Europe after five games unbeaten.
But they have clearly improved significantly from last season's relegation battle and various embarrassing thumpings.
They currently stand 10th and have 19 points from 14 games which is a decent haul given they came 15th last term with 41.
I am enjoying watching the likes of Ashley Westwood, Fabian Delph, Leandro Bacuna, Karim El Ahmadi, Ron Vlaar and Co improve from week to week.
Their steps - or strides in the case of Brad Guzan and Christian Benteke last season - gives Villa genuine hope for the future.
The players deserve respect for their efforts but Lambert is the key to encouraging them to flourish.
Lambert recently gave a rare glimpse behind the mask as to what really makes him tick.
The usually deadpan manager usually tries to give as little away as possible in his dry press conferences on camera.
He certainly never reveals his methods.
He even went to watch a club train abroad recently in the international break but refused to name who it was despite being repeatedly asked!
Yet last week he was talking up Westwood to the press (probably to deliberately boost the midfielder's belief and confidence) and in a lengthy discussion he casually mentioned: "I get great enjoyment seeing players each do well for themselves, not just Westy.
"I get great enjoyment seeing the lads make a name for themselves and trying to achieve something."
It occurred to me this is surely the principle of Lambert's management.
Because by putting the emphasis on individuals to better themselves and improve, the net result is the whole team therefore improves too.
That is what we saw at Norwich where he guided the Canaries from League One into the Premier League - and kept them there.
As a result dedicated pros like Russell Martin are now well-paid top-flight players and internationals, who otherwise might have been languishing in the lower leagues had they not got a break.
It also helps explain why Lambert takes players whether from abroad or lower down the leagues and gives them a platform to better themselves.
The consequence is then usually a win/win scenario with the player improving, earning more, playing high up the leagues and Lambert's side improving too.
I believe that is what we are witnessing at Villa this season where Lambert's collection of "humble" players - a quality he likes to emphasise - are continuing to grow.
Their resulting loyalty and hunger also means they have a strong stomach for a fight as underlined recently at the likes of West Brom and Saints.
I am not getting carried away as creditable top-flight finish of somewhere between eighth and 12th remains what is realistic and what I always expected this term.
There is still work to be done of course to rectify the home form.
And Benteke has gone off the boil but I am sure he will come good again for Villa and in the meantime other players are starting to make a name for themselves too as Lambert helps progress their careers and in turn the club - on a much cheaper, sustainable financial model.
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After last night, I'm beginning to think that Lambert's approach may have changed somewhat. Last season we played more attractive passing football in the centre of the park and it was our woeful defending that did for us. The defence has improved, I think Vlaar's performances this year have been a big difference, hopefully he's not out for too long.
For large parts of last night our football was abysmal, (pass completion was below 50% I believe?) but three classic breakaway goals and we get a very good 3 points. The team spirit that LAmbert has created is obviously excellent, Delph last night said they are like "brothers" and I think this is visible that they really do keep going. That has really been evident this season. We are progressing, slowly.
Agree with this. Vlaar is a different player from last season and from what we've seen, Joes Okore looked to be a great signing that would have seen us with a more solid central pairing. Questions still need to be asked about the full backs, it's so disappointing that Lowton couldn't carry through his form from last season. Hopefully it will come. On the left we still look weak which is not helped by Lambert playing us very narrow which enables teams to run at us from the flanks.
The midfield haven't come close to the level of performance we saw from February onwards last season.
Delph is growing as an important player and at times is a joy to watch.
Westwood is still learning but overall does his job though still not up to the level of last season. He really needs to show more mobility and make himself available to receive a pass, too often he puts himself in a dead zone, limiting the options for the player with the ball.
KEA and Sylla haven't shown enough to warrant an automatic first team place.
KEA shows glimpses of the player he was in Holland but overall I'm not convinced. The number of short passes he makes that immediately put one of our players under pressure is criminal. Often it's not him that gives the ball away but he's often the cause of it.
Sylla never started the season and has struggled to find any rhythm to his game. I'm still not convinced he's playing in his best position, often as our most advanced midfielder when we bought him as a defensive midfielder. Love his workrate but again the rest is no where near his level of last season.
Gabby showed last night what he's capable of achieving. Complete and utter belief in his ability when there was an easier option. He's struggled with injury this season but still remains an essential part of our team. Due to the lack of anything constructive from our midfield, Gabby is often seen dropping deeper and cutting inside. Whilst understandable, it does mean we lose a lot of shape and attacking threat.
It's not helped that on the other side, Andi Weimann despite his workrate looks nothing like the same player as last season. He appears to look very heavy and rarely a threat on goal. Right now he does very little for defenders to worry about and is easily taken care of. He really needs to get himself more in the box when the ball is coming in from the left. Stuck out on the wing he generally only manages to pass the ball back to Bacuna.
Benteke like Gabby has had his fair share of injuries but it's the lack of service and support that has made him look nothing like the player from last season. Too often he's isolated which allows teams to double up on him. It must be extremely frustrating, especially when we revert to hoofing it up to him. Saying that, there's no excuse for a poor attitude but then only way to solve that is to get him more involved in games.. and more importantly, get him scoring. Right now, judging by his reaction to our goal celebrations, I'm not convinced his heart is in it. I don't believe for one milisecond he's a one season wonder but the team need to give him better service and he needs to show more desire. I think it will come and he'll be back to the player we all know and love.
As for the rest..
Clark has shown some improvement but still needs to learn how to be a dominating defender, I'm just not sure he has the physical strength.
Baker is still only 22 and still leaning his trade. Ideally he'd be doing it out on loan but can't fault his effort and commitment.
Luna, after gaining overnight worship, mainly because of the Tony Moon tag, started the season well but looks anything but solid in defence. Another to suffer from Lambert's narrow formation. Not sure he'll be the player we all want him to be but needs more time to adapt. Despite his aging features it's worth remembering he's also only 22.
Bacuna blows hot and cold. Great free kicks, a couple of MOTM performances and a few shockers. Jury is still out.
Tonev reminds me of the young Tony Morley when we signed him from Burnley; great with the ball at his feet but no end product. Right now coming off the bench should be his only option.
Kozak really has been thrown in the deep end and is just about treading water. He's adapting as best he can given the poor service but thankfully he has some experience which will help him, though not as much as the goals. He never had a decent run at Lazio so he's not going to be full of confidence but I do see him playing his part this season.
Lambert. I'm really not sure where to start. Is he another MON, tactically naive that will take results and build nothing, another disciple of Charles Hughes or is he just dealing with an ongoing injury crisis that doesn't allow him to set up his team and get them playing the way he wants? Right now I'm guessing it's a combination of the two. His biggest challenge once we're safe is to get us performing at Villa Park. Fail to do that and I don't think there will be many renewing their season tickets, nevermind the walk ups turning up. Like so many of our youngsters he's still learning his trade but there's a very thin line between success and failure and Lambert right now can thank his luck he's walking on the right side.
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Very much a season of transition. The quality of football seems to have dropped but we are harder to beat and conceding less goals.
What is noticeable, the players on the fringes now cost a lot less than previous regimes and will be on much less a week in terms of wages. They shouldn't therefore stop us continually investing - Lambert's policy of signing younger and unknown players relatively cheaply should be more sustainable.
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On the whole I'm very pleased with the gradual but tangible progress that has been made in the last 18 months. I like Lambert. I like his quiet steely resolve. I also like the 'project' as it feels very much like something is being built almost from scratch, and is taking shape before our eyes.
That said, there are some things I just can't fathom. Yes, we have become more difficult to beat, but we have seemingly lost some of the rampaging force that we had towards the end of last season as well. I wonder if it is just that the other teams know what to expect from us now, and they might have worked out how to play against Benteke?
We now have these two big strong centre forwards, and yet there is seemingly no-one tasked with crossing balls into the box. When KEA got that cross in last night Kozak duly dispatched it. I can't help thinking that both he and Benteke could be prolific if someone was crossing balls in the whole game. This was obviously the only way MON knew to set up a team, and so I'm happy to have a bit more variety in terms of how we play. But how do we play? It seems to be quite haphazard to me. There doesn't seem to be a plan, just a lot of commitment to the cause.
Anyway, that commitment to the cause is currently seeing us make progress and build up some self confidence, which can only be good.
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Good thread this one. I agree with many of the posts on here
I've come to the fairly simple conclusion that we need more creative midfielders / wide forwards. Someone who can get the ball down and create. Without that sort of player I don't think we'll get that attractive.
But I think we can return to something close to the form at the back end of last season. But we need:
- a settled shape. That must help surely - knowing where your team mates are likely to be
- get Lowton back in the side
- gabby linking up with benteke
- possibly Tonev coming into things
- Westwood to learn to assert himself more. I'm not entirely sure he's got the physique that will enable this though
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Good thread this one. I agree with many of the posts on here
I've come to the fairly simple conclusion that we need more creative midfielders / wide forwards. Someone who can get the ball down and create. Without that sort of player I don't think we'll get that attractive.
But I think we can return to something close to the form at the back end of last season. But we need:
- a settled shape. That must help surely - knowing where your team mates are likely to be
- get Lowton back in the side
- gabby linking up with benteke
- possibly Tonev coming into things
- Westwood to learn to assert himself more. I'm not entirely sure he's got the physique that will enable this though
And don't write Kozak off ;-)
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If you replace Wigan with Cardiff, Reading with Hull and QPR with Palace (given their relative finishing positions in last years Premiership/Championship, over the same 15 games that we have played this season, last season we would have picked up 10 points by now. This would leave us firmly rooted in 19th place and 3 points behind West Ham in 17th. I call that solid progress, even if the style of the performances have not been pretty in many cases.
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Good thread this one. I agree with many of the posts on here
I've come to the fairly simple conclusion that we need more creative midfielders / wide forwards. Someone who can get the ball down and create. Without that sort of player I don't think we'll get that attractive.
But I think we can return to something close to the form at the back end of last season. But we need:
- a settled shape. That must help surely - knowing where your team mates are likely to be
- get Lowton back in the side
- gabby linking up with benteke
- possibly Tonev coming into things- Westwood to learn to assert himself more. I'm not entirely sure he's got the physique that will enable this though
Tonev, coming into things? I am guseeing you mean his shorts as soon as he sees the goal just before lashing his shot 30yards off target. The bloke should be nowhere near this league.