Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Chris Jameson on November 15, 2013, 10:41:33 AM
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There was a fundraising event held in Harrogate last night for the charity Shine (Danny Mills is a supporter and fundraiser ), the Theatre and Sporting Memories, it was basically a panel of ex footballers hosting a Q&A session.
Danny Mills was asked who the best manager he had played for was and naturally being part of the Leeds United team that made it to the Champions League semi final in 2001 his manager at the time David O'Leary got a mention.
"I'm not sure about who was the best manager, but I can certainly tell you the worst by miles, O'Leary, he didn't have a clue, one of his team talks consisted of three words 'just do it'. As soon as things weren't going well, he didn't have any solutions or answers."
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Excellent!
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Sounds about right. We were very good throughout 2004 under O Leary but it just went badly downhill after that. When teams worked us out (pretty quickly) that was it.
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I am Jack's total lack of surprise.
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The team o Leary took over had been moulded well by George graham in his short reign - o Leary was in the right place at the right time and by all accounts mon was 1st choice to go to Leeds and then had 2nd thoughts about leaving leicester.
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O'Leary was dreadful, yet in his first season we almost qualified for the Champions League. Another case of inheriting a team, yet on his final appearance at Villa Park the person who built that team was booed by sections of the Holte end.
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Come on, be fair. He had "a really small squad" but "an honest bunch o'lads !"
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Crazy to see how much of a blagger he really was/is.
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Crazy to think of how many managers we've appointed in the last 10 years that have struggled to find another position after us. Some really poor appointments.
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I was pleased when he joined and delighted when he left. History will judge him as his own worst enemy, strange that he has never worked as a manager again.
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I was pleased when he joined and delighted when he left.
That pretty much sums it up for me as well. He should have gone after that Doncaster debacle.
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Crazy to see how much of a blagger he really was/is.
Indeed ..he recently got a mega pay out from managing in the middle east somewhere too after failing there. Definetly can talk the talk...
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Crazy to see how much of a blagger he really was/is.
Indeed ..he recently got a mega pay out from managing in the middle east somewhere too after failing there. Definetly can talk the talk...
Definitely had the gift of the gab ;)
Can't be bad, get a contract on mega money, get kicked out after a season and on to the next mug, Is football management one of the few jobs were you can be sacked for failing and get another job doing the same thing all over again?
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They're fickle in Harrogate you know!
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They're fickle in Harrogate you know!
I blame the pound shop.
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I was pleased when he joined and delighted when he left.
That pretty much sums it up for me as well. He should have gone after that Doncaster debacle.
Did you have to bring that up ??
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I was pleased when he joined and delighted when he left.
That pretty much sums it up for me as well. He should have gone after that Doncaster debacle.
Did you have to bring that up ??
My sincere apologies Phil.
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O'Leary was dreadful, yet in his first season we almost qualified for the Champions League. Another case of inheriting a team, yet on his final appearance at Villa Park the person who built that team was booed by sections of the Holte end.
Chris, I can't remember all the details of Graham Taylor's squad of 2002-3 (that season will forever just mean shite football and 2 awful derby capitulations to me) but the team O'Leary inherited had finished 16th.
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Wasn't he youth coach or summat before taking over at Leeds?
He's clearly got delusions of granduer, and if he was chocolate he'd eat himself. But getting a team like Leeds to a CL semi final and the first 18 months of his time with us illustrate he did have something to offer.
If you think about it, in both cases he didn't lose his job based on results. He talked himself out of it.
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O'Leary was dreadful, yet in his first season we almost qualified for the Champions League. Another case of inheriting a team, yet on his final appearance at Villa Park the person who built that team was booed by sections of the Holte end.
Chris, I can't remember all the details of Graham Taylor's squad of 2002-3 (that season will forever just mean shite football and 2 awful derby capitulations to me) but the team O'Leary inherited had finished 16th.
Taylor made some poor signings for sure. To O Drearys credit he signed McCann and Sorenson and they both had an instant impact in the side. Both we're pretty good initially. McCann offered some energy and blood and thunder our mid lacked, and Sorenson was...well...not Enckleman. Plus he re-instated JPA into the side and it paid dividends (initially).
Certainly if you're talking about inherited squads, O Neill inherited better than what DOL did. Likewise Houllier inherited quite a good squad too.
I would say Lambert has inherited the most bobbins squad of any of our last half dozen gaffers.
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...I still don't like the pig-nosed numpty.
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(http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/PA-3362104-600x423.jpg)
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I still can't believe that Doug gave him the job.
A checkbook manager and Doug was never going to end well.
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(http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/PA-3362104-600x423.jpg)
Great banner was that. No response required.
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(http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/PA-3362104-600x423.jpg)
I was there that day, a truly dreadful 0-0 draw at home to a bang awful Fulham side on a grey day.
he were on a brilliant run for the second half of his first season. Remember a great coming from behind with against Southampton in the middle of that run.
His antics towards the end of his reign were a disgrace. Werent we hammered at Arsenal and he spent time at the end taking pictures for fans etc? Remember a couple of newspaper reports commenting on how bad it looked. Then the coup he tried to initiate against Ellis that summer probably finished him as a manager. If he had concentrated on management he could have been decent but his focus was rarely on the club.
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The year we came back from two down at Southampton was Dollys second season, as Carthorse scored. I remember their fans singing about Rover's demise while they were two up and slinking off to face their nigh on ten year exile when the third went in.
We finished 1-1 in Dolly's first and best season at Southampton, Beatie scoring a penalty to even things up. The strangest football violence that day ever, with the Mario Bros, Spiderman, the Turtles et al piling out of Yates' to horse Southampton up the road.
There were some good aways; scoring five in 17 minutes at Leicester, coming back from a goal down to win 2-1 at Boro, with ten men, with a 93rd minute Crouch winner.
The second season was as bland as I can recall, with only the open day win and away day fight back against Southampton being memorable. I am fairly sure Heskey destroyed us at the Sty and they did us at Villa Park too. Beyond that, I am out.
Some good derby wins aside, his final season was an abomination and to learn the players thought he was clueless is not surprising.
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When he took over it was blatantly obvious we needed a keeper and a central midfielder who could tackle. He got them both and we had a good season. After that he didn't seem to have a clue apart from attempting to bring in more players when things went wrong. If you read Peter Risdale's book it is clear he is a lying, conniving backstabber. Apparently he began sucking up to the Irish FA with a view to the managers job when he was still playing and hasn't stopped since.
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I was pleased when he joined and delighted when he left. History will judge him as his own worst enemy, strange that he has never worked as a manager again.
Yes he did. I am sure i saw an article about him managing in Saudi or somewhere in that direction.
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Al-Ahli.
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He's certainly marked his card for management in this country. His ego is too big that he'd take a league 1/2 job, and no one else would take a risk on him. He's similar in a way to a few of our previous managers, like Gregory. I honestly can't see him getting a gig any time soon on domestic soil. It may well be the case for McLeish too who has failed in his previous couple of jobs now, three if you count Shitty, but they're not a prem club so they're back at their level again.
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Al-Ahli.
Gesundheit
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My outstanding memory of O'leary's reign (apart from the fickle banner of course), was going to Everton away with my husband and him managing to successfully start an incredible range of '0'Leary out' chants that went on for the entire match.
It was so bizarre watching my PNE supporting husband get the whole of the Villa support whipped up into full O'Leary Out' mode. I couldn't help being more than slightly uneasy as I was the only one who knew he wasn't actually a Villa fan, and that he was finding the whole thing hilarious.
Still - it did seem to properly get the ball rolling!
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My outstanding memory of O'leary's reign (apart from the fickle banner of course), was going to Everton away with my husband and him managing to successfully start an incredible range of '0'Leary out' chants that went on for the entire match.
It was so bizarre watching my PNE supporting husband get the whole of the Villa support whipped up into full O'Leary Out' mode. I couldn't help being more than slightly uneasy as I was the only one who knew he wasn't actually a Villa fan, and that he was finding the whole thing hilarious.
Still - it did seem to properly get the ball rolling!
I had a similar experience when we won away at Chelsea on New Year's Eve 2011. I was in a box by the Chelsea lairy boys in the west stand and after we went ahead Terry came over for a throw in. I started booing shouting how bad it was and all the blokes ini front of me joined in and it escalated. Absolute joy!
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My outstanding memory of O'leary's reign (apart from the fickle banner of course), was going to Everton away with my husband and him managing to successfully start an incredible range of '0'Leary out' chants that went on for the entire match.
It was so bizarre watching my PNE supporting husband get the whole of the Villa support whipped up into full O'Leary Out' mode. I couldn't help being more than slightly uneasy as I was the only one who knew he wasn't actually a Villa fan, and that he was finding the whole thing hilarious.
Still - it did seem to properly get the ball rolling!
Blimey was that the 4-1 - we were so shit McFadden scored? I think it was temporarily suspended when Gabby scored. We were dire and we were in deep trouble - thankfully our near neighbours construed to be even more shit.
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Yes - Gabby's debut I think. We were awful.
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He's certainly marked his card for management in this country. His ego is too big that he'd take a league 1/2 job, and no one else would take a risk on him. He's similar in a way to a few of our previous managers, like Gregory. I honestly can't see him getting a gig any time soon on domestic soil. It may well be the case for McLeish too who has failed in his previous couple of jobs now, three if you count Shitty, but they're not a prem club so they're back at their level again.
Being a manager of Villa in the last 30 years doesn't lead on to bigger or better experiences - SGT I aside and even he came back to ensure the record was sullied. A who's who of hasbeens if you're lucky or never gonna bes again. Saunders, Barton, Turner, McNeill (even his triumphant return to Celtic was comparatively short lived), Dr Jo, BFR, Little (terminal divisional slide), Gregory, DOL, MON, Houllier, TSM. That is a fairly extensive list - in view of this Lambert really has punted his reputation. I always think that Villa and Wolves are two very very hard jobs. Not that many fans expect them to be Top 4 team nowadays just that they expect them to be better than they are at any given time. Not so with Albion or Blues in the last 10 years.
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I remember watching the 4-1 in Pakistan. The Star TV pundits- Steve McMahon and someone - both laid into O'Leary and his team selection saying that he had picked a team designed to lose.
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Yes - Gabby's debut I think. We were awful.
Yep Everton were nowt special and absolutely battered us. I think we were in a similar position as them at the time. I had a few beers in Flannagans in town afterwards numbed the pain a little.
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I remember watching the 4-1 in Pakistan. The Star TV pundits- Steve McMahon and someone - both laid into O'Leary and his team selection saying that he had picked a team designed to lose.
the highlight that day was singing about the match day programmes...
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Ha I was just going to say there was much singing about the programmes!
"Villa fans, programmes are now available"
Waey! Lets all buy a programme! For about fifeteen minutea straight.
Arsenal away where Dolly fawned over his old club and said we cannot compete with the Charltons of this world saw some very loud Dolly out signing. "We're just honest, bunch of lads!"
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I hated O'Leary more that I hated McNeil.
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The Djemba twins put the boot in to O'Leary: click me (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/nov/16/eric-djemba-djemba-manchester-united).
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He is only 32? Crikey, I thought he would have retired.
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Even with the negative football and lack of any idea I still dislike the pug nosed one more than I ever did Mcleish...
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I dislike O'Leary more than any other former Villa manager and he's alongside the Hopkins of this world when it comes to odious former Villa employees.
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As soon as I saw him my blood was boiling, just looking at him does that to me. He was orange and still has his stupid fucking nose and an arrogance about him that makes you want to push him over or throw stuff at him.
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I hated O'Leary more that I hated McNeil.
For many months after he arrived everything he said started with 'when I was at Leeds'.
It was his comment about Villa fans expectations and Charlton that was the final straw for me. Horrible big headed waster.
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The dolly seasons are about the only ones where I really lost interest. I just couldn't care about a club when I really wanted to punch the manager every time I saw him. Having moved abroad I didn't catch a game last season and probably won't get to one this season either, the only other seasons since the premier league started where I have been to at least 1 game were DOLs 2nd and 3rd seasons and I only went to 1 in his first season, after getting to 7 in the GT season and I made 5 in MONs first season. It was only after that year that I realised how much my dislike of Dolly has stopped me attending.
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He never really seemed to have a great affinity with the club imo or even attempt to try to get a connection with the fans. Obviously you can get away with that when you are overachieving and getting 6th, less so when the results worsen and we're in a relegation battle.
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The problem with o Leary is he seemed to look down on us - he never thought we were a big club and seemed to delight at putting us down every chance he got.
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Al-Ahli.
This
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2318842/David-OLeary-wins-3-4m-compensation-claim-Al-Ahli-early-sacking.html
(Short links are beyond my capability )
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Did'nt he also wobble on about Leeds every chance he got?
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Did'nt he also wobble on about Leeds every chance he got?
Or arsenal .
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I hated O'Leary more that I hated McNeil.
For many months after he arrived everything he said started with 'when I was at Leeds'.
It was his comment about Villa fans expectations and Charlton that was the final straw for me. Horrible big headed waster.
The tosser didn't understand that supporters who turn up everyweek come rain or shine do so in hope. He spent what seemed like his entire stay here destroying our hope.
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I hated O'Leary more that I hated McNeil.
For many months after he arrived everything he said started with 'when I was at Leeds'.
It was his comment about Villa fans expectations and Charlton that was the final straw for me. Horrible big headed waster.
The tosser didn't understand that supporters who turn up everyweek come rain or shine do so in hope. He spent what seemed like his entire stay here destroying our hope.
Looking at the reality of his management style we now see that he knew he was hopeless, and so was adjusting our expectations accordingly.
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Al-Ahli.
This
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2318842/David-OLeary-wins-3-4m-compensation-claim-Al-Ahli-early-sacking.html
(Short links are beyond my capability )
I am sure he was guilty of abandoning his job at Al Ahli because that is exactly what he did when he was here.
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Even with the negative football and lack of any idea I still dislike the pug nosed one more than I ever did Mcleish...
O'Leary, Houllier and McNeill never ever gave a shit about the Villa. They are to be treated for the rest of their days with the utter contempt they deserve. Shameful the way 2 of them talked Villa down, was involved in relegation scraps with mid table / top half squads and the latter who actually managed the feat. I'd find it tricky to piss on them if they were burning.
Turner and TSM were rubbish at the job, out of their depth and naeive in the exteme in the latter's case but they understood what Villa meant at least. That is why they were never going to turn down the job.
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Did'nt he also wobble on about Leeds every chance he got?
Or arsenal .
Or he banged on about us banging on about our European Cup win. Which he mentioned more often than we did.
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Even with the negative football and lack of any idea I still dislike the pug nosed one more than I ever did Mcleish...
O'Leary, Houllier and McNeill never ever gave a shit about the Villa. They are to be treated for the rest of their days with the utter contempt they deserve. Shameful the way 2 of them talked Villa down, was involved in relegation scraps with mid table / top half squads and the latter who actually managed the feat. I'd find it tricky to piss on them if they were burning.
Turner and TSM were rubbish at the job, out of their depth and naeive in the exteme in the latter's case but they understood what Villa meant at least. That is why they were never going to turn down the job.
I never took to Houiller that much. I went on holiday a week or so after MON quit and by the time I came back Houiller was in charge and it felt strange. It was an odd appointment anyway but it seemed strange seeing him in the dug out. Did'nt he turn us down at first?
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I quite liked Houllier.
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I view Houllier differently, to me, despite everything that went wrong, he had the right idea of what needed doing and, importantly, he was a good choice given the circumstances. The season we really had to concentrate on looking at managers who weren't with a club and had the skills to come in and make a go of it without being able to add anything significant to the squad for 3-4months. In that light I can understand his appointment and I'm slightly more forgiving towards him. As I see it, at the time, we needed him more than he needed us, I can't think of another time where that has been the case.
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Even with the negative football and lack of any idea I still dislike the pug nosed one more than I ever did Mcleish...
O'Leary, Houllier and McNeill never ever gave a shit about the Villa. They are to be treated for the rest of their days with the utter contempt they deserve. Shameful the way 2 of them talked Villa down, was involved in relegation scraps with mid table / top half squads and the latter who actually managed the feat. I'd find it tricky to piss on them if they were burning.
Turner and TSM were rubbish at the job, out of their depth and naeive in the exteme in the latter's case but they understood what Villa meant at least. That is why they were never going to turn down the job.
I never took to Houiller that much. I went on holiday a week or so after MON quit and by the time I came back Houiller was in charge and it felt strange. It was an odd appointment anyway but it seemed strange seeing him in the dug out. Did'nt he turn us down at first?
Must have been a long holiday as that took about 2 months, didn't it?
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Even with the negative football and lack of any idea I still dislike the pug nosed one more than I ever did Mcleish...
O'Leary, Houllier and McNeill never ever gave a shit about the Villa. They are to be treated for the rest of their days with the utter contempt they deserve. Shameful the way 2 of them talked Villa down, was involved in relegation scraps with mid table / top half squads and the latter who actually managed the feat. I'd find it tricky to piss on them if they were burning.
Turner and TSM were rubbish at the job, out of their depth and naeive in the exteme in the latter's case but they understood what Villa meant at least. That is why they were never going to turn down the job.
I never took to Houiller that much. I went on holiday a week or so after MON quit and by the time I came back Houiller was in charge and it felt strange. It was an odd appointment anyway but it seemed strange seeing him in the dug out. Did'nt he turn us down at first?
Must have been a long holiday as that took about 2 months, didn't it?
Whoever hired him had overlooked or failed to communicate the fact that he wasn't actually ready to start straight away. The phrase schoolboy error is used in the real world.
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Even with the negative football and lack of any idea I still dislike the pug nosed one more than I ever did Mcleish...
O'Leary, Houllier and McNeill never ever gave a shit about the Villa. They are to be treated for the rest of their days with the utter contempt they deserve. Shameful the way 2 of them talked Villa down, was involved in relegation scraps with mid table / top half squads and the latter who actually managed the feat. I'd find it tricky to piss on them if they were burning.
Turner and TSM were rubbish at the job, out of their depth and naeive in the exteme in the latter's case but they understood what Villa meant at least. That is why they were never going to turn down the job.
I never took to Houiller that much. I went on holiday a week or so after MON quit and by the time I came back Houiller was in charge and it felt strange. It was an odd appointment anyway but it seemed strange seeing him in the dug out. Did'nt he turn us down at first?
Must have been a long holiday as that took about 2 months, didn't it?
You've got me thinking now. We were gone for about 2 and a half weeks. I missed the Man City home game when Gabby got a hat-trick and Stoke away when we lost 3-2 (I think) then Liverpool at home. I think Houiller's first game was Stoke away but I might be wrong.
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Even with the negative football and lack of any idea I still dislike the pug nosed one more than I ever did Mcleish...
O'Leary, Houllier and McNeill never ever gave a shit about the Villa. They are to be treated for the rest of their days with the utter contempt they deserve. Shameful the way 2 of them talked Villa down, was involved in relegation scraps with mid table / top half squads and the latter who actually managed the feat. I'd find it tricky to piss on them if they were burning.
Turner and TSM were rubbish at the job, out of their depth and naeive in the exteme in the latter's case but they understood what Villa meant at least. That is why they were never going to turn down the job.
I never took to Houiller that much. I went on holiday a week or so after MON quit and by the time I came back Houiller was in charge and it felt strange. It was an odd appointment anyway but it seemed strange seeing him in the dug out. Did'nt he turn us down at first?
Must have been a long holiday as that took about 2 months, didn't it?
You've got me thinking now. We were gone for about 2 and a half weeks. I missed the Man City home game when Gabby got a hat-trick and Stoke away when we lost 3-2 (I think) then Liverpool at home. I think Houiller's first game was Stoke away but I might be wrong.
You are confusing 2008-09 with 2010-11.
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Even with the negative football and lack of any idea I still dislike the pug nosed one more than I ever did Mcleish...
O'Leary, Houllier and McNeill never ever gave a shit about the Villa. They are to be treated for the rest of their days with the utter contempt they deserve. Shameful the way 2 of them talked Villa down, was involved in relegation scraps with mid table / top half squads and the latter who actually managed the feat. I'd find it tricky to piss on them if they were burning.
Turner and TSM were rubbish at the job, out of their depth and naeive in the exteme in the latter's case but they understood what Villa meant at least. That is why they were never going to turn down the job.
I never took to Houiller that much. I went on holiday a week or so after MON quit and by the time I came back Houiller was in charge and it felt strange. It was an odd appointment anyway but it seemed strange seeing him in the dug out. Did'nt he turn us down at first?
Must have been a long holiday as that took about 2 months, didn't it?
You've got me thinking now. We were gone for about 2 and a half weeks. I missed the Man City home game when Gabby got a hat-trick and Stoke away when we lost 3-2 (I think) then Liverpool at home. I think Houiller's first game was Stoke away but I might be wrong.
You are confusing 2008-09 with 2010-11.
You're right you know. My apologies.
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Wow, that's some confusion. West Ham home 3-0, Newcastle away 0-6?, Stoke away 1-2 was it in 2010-11?
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It was yeah, but you missed out us beating Everton 1-0.
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Wow, that's some confusion. West Ham home 3-0, Newcastle away 0-6?, Stoke away 1-2 was it in 2010-11?
I went to America in 2008 and 2010 and we played Stoke away both times while I was gone. I think that's where the confusion set in and i'm not sure why because I was at the Newcastle game where they beat us 6-0. My bad (as the kids would say).
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I view Houllier differently, to me, despite everything that went wrong, he had the right idea of what needed doing and, importantly, he was a good choice given the circumstances. The season we really had to concentrate on looking at managers who weren't with a club and had the skills to come in and make a go of it without being able to add anything significant to the squad for 3-4months. In that light I can understand his appointment and I'm slightly more forgiving towards him. As I see it, at the time, we needed him more than he needed us, I can't think of another time where that has been the case.
I never quite got that argument. We had just finished 6th, had a squad of internationals, some exciting young players and a chairman who had a reputation for backing his manager. We needed to be more agressive in our recruitment and pursue the right man, regardless of whether he was in a job or not.
As for Houllier, I never really took to him and don't think he had any real feel for the club. That having been said, he was getting it right and things were looking good going forward, until he had his health issues. Which was one of the main concerns many of us raised when he got the job.
The about turn in then appointing TSM basically destroyed the groundwork he had laid, meaning Lambert had to start from scratch. Lambert as the man after Houllier would have made a lot of sense.
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It was yeah, but you missed out us beating Everton 1-0.
Was Houllier or Kevin Mac in charge for that one?
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It was yeah, but you missed out us beating Everton 1-0.
Was Houllier or Kevin Mac in charge for that one?
K-Mac.
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Wasnt houlliers first official game at wolves when heskey scored a late winner?
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I view Houllier differently, to me, despite everything that went wrong, he had the right idea of what needed doing and, importantly, he was a good choice given the circumstances. The season we really had to concentrate on looking at managers who weren't with a club and had the skills to come in and make a go of it without being able to add anything significant to the squad for 3-4months. In that light I can understand his appointment and I'm slightly more forgiving towards him. As I see it, at the time, we needed him more than he needed us, I can't think of another time where that has been the case.
I never quite got that argument. We had just finished 6th, had a squad of internationals, some exciting young players and a chairman who had a reputation for backing his manager. We needed to be more agressive in our recruitment and pursue the right man, regardless of whether he was in a job or not.
As for Houllier, I never really took to him and don't think he had any real feel for the club. That having been said, he was getting it right and things were looking good going forward, until he had his health issues. Which was one of the main concerns many of us raised when he got the job.
The about turn in then appointing TSM basically destroyed the groundwork he had laid, meaning Lambert had to start from scratch. Lambert as the man after Houllier would have made a lot of sense.
The problem was one lurch to the other. Man Motivator (if you were part of the clique) exceptional to aloof Coaching Strategist (who had to all intent purpose excluded some of Man Motivator's men) with an Unconvincing Lackey to a 'Limited' organiser. Waste waste and more waste. They were all 10 years past their best if you look at it objectively. Lerner and Faulkner have a lot to answer for. Lambert was a huge step criteria wise in the right direction and hopefully will turn out to work practically speaking.
I'd rather not RL and PF have the need to recruit anyone just yet as it would mean 3 sub optimal appointments. In fact I'll be happy if they don't need to at all.
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Wasnt houlliers first official game at wolves when heskey scored a late winner?
It was indeed.
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David O'Dreary. I would still like to know who the fans he met at the petrol station were.
Pugged nosed prick!
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It was yeah, but you missed out us beating Everton 1-0.
No recollection of that at all. Who scored? I thought our record, barring the obvious Newcastle anomoly, was decent up to the Wolves game when Houllier took over. K-Mac did a great job in the circumstances
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It was yeah, but you missed out us beating Everton 1-0.
No recollection of that at all. Who scored? I thought our record, barring the obvious Newcastle anomoly, was decent up to the Wolves game when Houllier took over. K-Mac did a great job in the circumstances
Luke young in a game everton controlled.
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I view Houllier differently, to me, despite everything that went wrong, he had the right idea of what needed doing and, importantly, he was a good choice given the circumstances. The season we really had to concentrate on looking at managers who weren't with a club and had the skills to come in and make a go of it without being able to add anything significant to the squad for 3-4months. In that light I can understand his appointment and I'm slightly more forgiving towards him. As I see it, at the time, we needed him more than he needed us, I can't think of another time where that has been the case.
I never quite got that argument. We had just finished 6th, had a squad of internationals, some exciting young players and a chairman who had a reputation for backing his manager. We needed to be more agressive in our recruitment and pursue the right man, regardless of whether he was in a job or not.
As for Houllier, I never really took to him and don't think he had any real feel for the club. That having been said, he was getting it right and things were looking good going forward, until he had his health issues. Which was one of the main concerns many of us raised when he got the job.
The about turn in then appointing TSM basically destroyed the groundwork he had laid, meaning Lambert had to start from scratch. Lambert as the man after Houllier would have made a lot of sense.
Largely it comes down to character. Would we really want a manager who was willing to walk out on their club that early in the season? What would be to stop them doing it to us? Is that really a situation you want to tempt having just had your manager walk out at the worst imaginable time.
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I view Houllier differently, to me, despite everything that went wrong, he had the right idea of what needed doing and, importantly, he was a good choice given the circumstances. The season we really had to concentrate on looking at managers who weren't with a club and had the skills to come in and make a go of it without being able to add anything significant to the squad for 3-4months. In that light I can understand his appointment and I'm slightly more forgiving towards him. As I see it, at the time, we needed him more than he needed us, I can't think of another time where that has been the case.
I never quite got that argument. We had just finished 6th, had a squad of internationals, some exciting young players and a chairman who had a reputation for backing his manager. We needed to be more agressive in our recruitment and pursue the right man, regardless of whether he was in a job or not.
As for Houllier, I never really took to him and don't think he had any real feel for the club. That having been said, he was getting it right and things were looking good going forward, until he had his health issues. Which was one of the main concerns many of us raised when he got the job.
The about turn in then appointing TSM basically destroyed the groundwork he had laid, meaning Lambert had to start from scratch. Lambert as the man after Houllier would have made a lot of sense.
Largely it comes down to character. Would we really want a manager who was willing to walk out on their club that early in the season? What would be to stop them doing it to us? Is that really a situation you want to tempt having just had your manager walk out at the worst imaginable time.
Didn't Lambert walk out of Colchester to join Norwich one game into the season?
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I view Houllier differently, to me, despite everything that went wrong, he had the right idea of what needed doing and, importantly, he was a good choice given the circumstances. The season we really had to concentrate on looking at managers who weren't with a club and had the skills to come in and make a go of it without being able to add anything significant to the squad for 3-4months. In that light I can understand his appointment and I'm slightly more forgiving towards him. As I see it, at the time, we needed him more than he needed us, I can't think of another time where that has been the case.
I never quite got that argument. We had just finished 6th, had a squad of internationals, some exciting young players and a chairman who had a reputation for backing his manager. We needed to be more agressive in our recruitment and pursue the right man, regardless of whether he was in a job or not.
As for Houllier, I never really took to him and don't think he had any real feel for the club. That having been said, he was getting it right and things were looking good going forward, until he had his health issues. Which was one of the main concerns many of us raised when he got the job.
The about turn in then appointing TSM basically destroyed the groundwork he had laid, meaning Lambert had to start from scratch. Lambert as the man after Houllier would have made a lot of sense.
Largely it comes down to character. Would we really want a manager who was willing to walk out on their club that early in the season? What would be to stop them doing it to us? Is that really a situation you want to tempt having just had your manager walk out at the worst imaginable time.
Didn't Lambert walk out of Colchester to join Norwich one game into the season?
Yes , he did indeed - after a 7-1 with Colchester i believe.
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Blimey I thought Lambert joined Narrrrich the following season.... ???
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It was yeah, but you missed out us beating Everton 1-0.
No recollection of that at all. Who scored? I thought our record, barring the obvious Newcastle anomoly, was decent up to the Wolves game when Houllier took over. K-Mac did a great job in the circumstances
Luke young in a game everton controlled.
Remember it now. Spot on too. Baines and Peinnar tore LY a new one all game. It mattered little though, thankfully.
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Blimey I thought Lambert joined Narrrrich the following season.... ???
Colchester United are manageress this morning after Paul Lambert sensationally resigned yesterday, with a view to coaching the team he recently thrashed 7-1. His appointment at Norwich City was confirmed this morning.
U`s Chairman, Robbie Cowling, has issued a statement in which he explained City`s approach for Lambert came hours after Saturday`s assured league home win over Yeovil Town.
Vital Colchester began reporting the intense speculation over his future last night but Cowling revealed Lambert quit the club while they were busy haggling for his compensation package.
Read more: http://www.colchester.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=166350#ixzz2l0mFoBQj
http://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/colchester-united/history_suggests_paul_lambert_will_move_on_again_1_1379309
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Well I look a bit of a tit there don't I. I still maintain that was the reasoning behind it at the time though, and given those that criteria I think Houllier was a decent choice, it didn't work out so in hindsight it's easy to call it a bad appointment but I think the path of the club wouldn't have seen us down in the bottom half for 2 seasons if he'd been fit to carry on.
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I liked the football houllier was trying to play but I have doubts about his man management - he ruffled a few feathers no doubt but perhaps tried to do too much too soon - i also found his behaviour at anfield a bit shabby as he turned to applaud the Liverpool fans rather than villa fans - and his team selection at man city in the cup left me furious in much the same way as mons Moscow fiasco.
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I was at the Liverpool game, so I didn’t see Houllier and his antics in respect of Liverpool. I do remember it being bloody freezing and a thoroughly depressing affair mind.
It was always a pity that Makoun and Bradley didn’t work out. You would have thought that on paper at least, those two sitting with Young in the hole feeding Bent was equally as good as what we produced under O’Neill, especially with Downing and Gabby adding width.
Houllier lacked the iron will of Lambert. The laters whole demeanour screams steely determination, while Dave’s description of the former as a consultant is just about the best description I can think of to describe him.
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If we had gone down the director of football route then houllier may have been ideal with a coach dealing with the first team .
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Michael Bradley is playing for a Roma team who have started like a train in Serie A. Cabaye has rediscovered his class, Makoun showing lately with Cameroon that there was something to work with there. Walker obviously is number one for Spurs (and England, I think? Don't really watch them). There's no doubting GHou's eye for a player. He also got the best out of Marc Albrighton and arguably Barry Bannan too.
As Mr Woodhall has describe him on here - Houllier was a fine management consultant. Saw what was wrong, went about fixing it professionally with little regard as to player morale and the style of the previous regime all without getting bogged down in the history and spirit of the club and in the process giving himself an unnecessary stick for supporters to beat him with. I think the switch from MON to him was just too marked. If we'd had someone in between both men's tenures who had some of Houllier's double-sessions-and-no-doughnuts-diet continental approach while retaining O'Neill's ability to keep a team competitive and hard to beat, maybe things would have worked out better.
The swing from O'Neill to Houllier to McLeish though was scarily naive, though.
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O'Leary was dreadful, yet in his first season we almost qualified for the Champions League. Another case of inheriting a team, yet on his final appearance at Villa Park the person who built that team was booed by sections of the Holte end.
Gregory?
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In fairness, the player who fired us up the league in 03/04 was JPA and Graham Taylor did not fancy him at all the year he was at villa.
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In fairness, the player who fired us up the league in 03/04 was JPA and Graham Taylor did not fancy him at all the year he was at villa.
I think Taylor in part will struggle to live down coming in halfway through a season and dropping our top scorer. The following season I think Japes started about 3 games didn't he? He had 16 goals in all comps at the point GT took over from Gregory. I think he'd have passed 20 goals had Gregory seen out the season, and perhaps because of that been held in slightly higher regard among some fans. That said the JPA diehards (admittedly myself included) can't be swayed on the fact he was a very talented player, often not used correctly.
That's the one thing O Leary did right and why we did well in his first season. He played to JPA's strengths and got rewarded for it. The following season I think JPA had an injury early on and was somewhat rushed back. When he did come back he'd lost a yard or two and was never quite the same player (though I felt he played well from Aug-Nov under O Neill, before being inexplicably dropped in favour of either Sutton or Baros). But in 04-05 most of our side, probably Nol Solano excluded, were pretty dour in the second half of the season. We'd started where we'd left off really. The whole of 04 was good. Then when we had been worked out, O Leary's only response to counter that was to have us hoofing the ball.
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I view Houllier differently, to me, despite everything that went wrong, he had the right idea of what needed doing and, importantly, he was a good choice given the circumstances. The season we really had to concentrate on looking at managers who weren't with a club and had the skills to come in and make a go of it without being able to add anything significant to the squad for 3-4months. In that light I can understand his appointment and I'm slightly more forgiving towards him. As I see it, at the time, we needed him more than he needed us, I can't think of another time where that has been the case.
Houllier had the right ideas but he was just too old for the job (maybe not age but away from the premier league and full time management for a while) plus the health issues always stood a chance of cropping up again.
I didn't agree with his fawning over Liverpool after we were stuffed 3 nil up there or his Man. City cup selection either.
He would've been much better as a DOF with say a younger european coach like a Pochettino in charge. Or even Martinez who I'm convinced would've been great for us in the 2010-12.
McLeish seemed a decent fellow who respected our traditions. His awful football philosophy was a bit of a problem though.
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I liked Houllier, and was disappointed when his illness meant he had to go. His man-management skills are shite, and the Liverpool love-in was annoying as hell, but it was clear what style of football he wanted the team to play, and it was starting to show towards the end. I think had his health not failed, he'd have turned us into a good side, with Cabaye as it fulcrum by all accounts.
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Yes Cabaye would've been a great addition and a good replacement for Stan.
Pretty sure we were linked with Gago or Banega (always confusing the two) so the midfield would've had a proper overhaul.
I'd say Young would've left regardless as it's difficult to turn down Man. United but Downing would've probably given us another year as he enjoyed playing under Houllier.
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I liked Houllier, and was disappointed when his illness meant he had to go. His man-management skills are shite, and the Liverpool love-in was annoying as hell, but it was clear what style of football he wanted the team to play, and it was starting to show towards the end. I think had his health not failed, he'd have turned us into a good side, with Cabaye as it fulcrum by all accounts.
When we talk about the mistakes our current benevolent overlords have made, people usually suggest it is appointing McLeish (admittedly, a cataclysmic act of stupidity), but I think the real error was broader than that.
It wasn't about McLeish per se, it was the fact that we'd made some real progress at the end of the Houllier year, we'd started to play some decent football, so the clever thing to have done would have been to appoint a manager with a style which suggested that could be carried on.
When it was mooted they wanted Martinez, a lot of us were far from convinced, but you could at least see a hint of footballing continuity there. To then get knocked back (and, whichever way you look at it, being offered an interview for a job and turning it down is a knock back) by Martinez only to turn to someone with a football style which was entirely the opposite of what we'd been trying to do was nuts.
The Houllier season was horrible in parts, and he was an unlikeable, offensive old bastard at times, but we came out the other end towards the end of the season and looked like we'd started a journey.
We then managed to throw away all that progress, the stress of that season was for nothing, and we took another two steps back by appointing McLeish.
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I liked Houllier, and was disappointed when his illness meant he had to go. His man-management skills are shite, and the Liverpool love-in was annoying as hell, but it was clear what style of football he wanted the team to play, and it was starting to show towards the end. I think had his health not failed, he'd have turned us into a good side, with Cabaye as it fulcrum by all accounts.
When we talk about the mistakes our current benevolent overlords have made, people usually suggest it is appointing McLeish (admittedly, a cataclysmic act of stupidity), but I think the real error was broader than that.
It wasn't about McLeish per se, it was the fact that we'd made some real progress at the end of the Houllier year, we'd started to play some decent football, so the clever thing to have done would have been to appoint a manager with a style which suggested that could be carried on.
When it was mooted they wanted Martinez, a lot of us were far from convinced, but you could at least see a hint of footballing continuity there. To then get knocked back (and, whichever way you look at it, being offered an interview for a job and turning it down is a knock back) by Martinez only to turn to someone with a football style which was entirely the opposite of what we'd been trying to do was nuts.
The Houllier season was horrible in parts, and he was an unlikeable, offensive old bastard at times, but we came out the other end towards the end of the season and looked like we'd started a journey.
We then managed to throw away all that progress, the stress of that season was for nothing, and we took another two steps back by appointing McLeish.
Thankfully they appear to have realised their mistakes in this regard, as the notes from the recent Villa Trust meeting with PF show.
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Had Houllier had a less abrasive number than McCallister things may have been easier with the squad. I think Gary Mac also had his fair share of problems during his stint here. The fact that neither the number 1 and 2 were very popular with the squad didn't help.
If you have a stand off-ish manager who doesn't take much shit, then I'd have thought the rule of thumb would be to have a right hand man who can play the good guy.
I thought Houllier had good ideas though. In retrospect, the injuries he suffered (possibly in part down to his new training regime) did not help him. The teams we had to put out in the middle third of the season were very thin on experience and quality. The fact too that we "lost" John Carew the second O Neill left, didn't help either. As inconsistent as he was, he was mercurial and a match winner. But with his fitness and attitude to grafting, he was never going to get on with Houllier (as had been proven at Lyon). We were just too predictable early on in the season. Carew could often, when he wanted to, do something from nothing. With AY struggling somewhat that year, playing as the second striker, we were quite easy to defend against. Heskey actually played quite well for a time under Houllier but obviously because he doesn't score many (despite him going on a little purple patch of 5 goals in 9 at one point) you need goals from midfield. So in that regard, we missed Jimmy M in CM.
When we had Bent come in, we seemed to have that missing link to turn our decent play in the first 2/3 of the pitch into goals. We were starting to take a step forward, before the McLeish appointment ended up being an almighty leap back.
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When we talk about the mistakes our current benevolent overlords have made, people usually suggest it is appointing McLeish (admittedly, a cataclysmic act of stupidity), but I think the real error was broader than that.
It wasn't about McLeish per se, it was the fact that we'd made some real progress at the end of the Houllier year, we'd started to play some decent football, so the clever thing to have done would have been to appoint a manager with a style which suggested that could be carried on.
I was deleting some PMs the other day and noticed one from my brother, returning after a holiday, asking whether I thought there was likely to be any truth in the rumours of TSM coming here, 'Not a chance' I assured him, 'anyone even giving voice to it happening should be sectioned'.
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When we talk about the mistakes our current benevolent overlords have made, people usually suggest it is appointing McLeish (admittedly, a cataclysmic act of stupidity), but I think the real error was broader than that.
It wasn't about McLeish per se, it was the fact that we'd made some real progress at the end of the Houllier year, we'd started to play some decent football, so the clever thing to have done would have been to appoint a manager with a style which suggested that could be carried on.
I was deleting some PMs the other day and noticed one from my brother, returning after a holiday, asking whether I thought there was likely to be any truth in the rumours of TSM coming here, 'Not a chance' I assured him, 'anyone even giving voice to it happening should be sectioned'.
Do you feel a tinge of guilt about having your brother sectioned?
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When we talk about the mistakes our current benevolent overlords have made, people usually suggest it is appointing McLeish (admittedly, a cataclysmic act of stupidity), but I think the real error was broader than that.
It wasn't about McLeish per se, it was the fact that we'd made some real progress at the end of the Houllier year, we'd started to play some decent football, so the clever thing to have done would have been to appoint a manager with a style which suggested that could be carried on.
I was deleting some PMs the other day and noticed one from my brother, returning after a holiday, asking whether I thought there was likely to be any truth in the rumours of TSM coming here, 'Not a chance' I assured him, 'anyone even giving voice to it happening should be sectioned'.
I was at work when it was said on the radio that we were talking to McLeish. I really did laugh it off as it was obviously nonsense.
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I don't like going back there.
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I was in Shanghai finishing a hard day's work when Chico sent me a message to say TSM was in talks with us. He also sent me a text to break the news that MON had left.
He's the grinning head of death that Chico.
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How I wish O'Neill had gone to Liverpool instead of Roy Hodgson (July 2010). We'd have saved money on compensation and had all summer to line up a decent replacement. He'd also have ruined the scousers with the likes of Aiden McGeady. Even if we'd still got Houllier we could have made some signings in that summer to shake things up and maybe even kept Milner for another season. You'd think Stephen Ireland wouldn't have happened at least.
Failing that my other wish would be that McLeish hadn't won the league cup with Blues and that might have been enough to stop him getting the Villa job. Hopefully whoever we'd got instead would have taken Lambert's approach and we'd now be a year further on with our recovery. No Given/Hutton/N'Zogbia is reason enough to gamble on someone else.
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I was in Shanghai finishing a hard day's work when Chico sent me a message to say TSM was in talks with us. He also sent me a text to break the news that MON had left.
He's the grinning head of death that Chico.
I was running for a train in a sunny Maynooth when a friend, who I subsequently fell out with, texted me with the news MON had quit Villa. I was on my way to a wedding in Athlone when I got the text, from the same friend, with news that Houllier was arriving. It was also a sunny day.
I was in Southend visiting friends when I first became aware of the dark rumors linking us with TSM. It was all quite a shock as I hadn't been logging in here while I was away in Southend. When I flew back to Dublin he was installed. Oddly, when I think back to the TSM year, I always remember things being dark/grey. By coincidence I moved house around the time he became villa manager and it was in the corner of an estate, surrounded by trees so very little light used to get through. Sums up that season.
May as well complete the ha-trick...I was working in my office on the day Lambert signed and I was just thrilled, it felt like we were finally back on the right road.
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I thought the TSM rumours were rubbish. I think I was on here when I heard on the TV he had quit Small Heath. I sent a text to a mate saying 'Oh shit'. His first reply was 'What?', quickly followed by 'Ah, I've heard now. Not looking good is it?'
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When it happened, I remember sinking to my knees and screaming: "You maniacs. Oh, damn you! Goddamn you all to hell!"
Secretly, I'd always wanted to say that.
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I was in the bookies just two hours before it was announce that TSM had quit. I was placing £50 on David Moyes becoming the manager. A dead cert my ITK mate told me... bastard ITK. He knew sod all...
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I've just been reading the new manager thread from that period.
Here onwards
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=43650.5445
people saying no way will it be McLeish etc, then someone reports he's resigned, and it all snowballs.
Quote from Mazrim on that first page probably a good example of how unbelievable we all found it.
Its not bad news, its just a bookie's odds.
McLeish isnt going to be Villa manager any more than Barbara Streissand.
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I remember a PM exchange we had about that time Paulie.
It was McLeish resigning Sunday and I told you it was him.
It took people a week to believe it I think. In fact, Mysteryman was still arguing it was poppycock for days.
It took a long time to sink in. I also had Dave on the horn that afternoon going spare about how they could sell it.
I feel cold just thinking about it all to be honest.
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I still can't believe we appointed TSM, even now. I'm trying to forget that it actually happened, it still seems like some surreal nightmare of eternal nil-nils.
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I remember a PM exchange we had about that time Paulie.
It was McLeish resigning Sunday and I told you it was him.
It took people a week to believe it I think. In fact, Mysteryman was still arguing it was poppycock for days.
It took a long time to sink in. I also had Dave on the horn that afternoon going spare about how they could sell it.
I feel cold just thinking about it all to be honest.
Was Dave getting excited by it?
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A frustrating thing for me is after having good seasons and look on the brink of great things we change manager and nosedive down the table. Graham Taylor leaves us in second place then Venglos comes in and we are in a relegation battle. O'Neil left us in sixth place then Houlier comes in and we are in a relegation battle. We were hoping the new managers would take us the extra step and nothing of the sort happened.
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No, he's a shit manager who plays shit football. I cant see that useless ginger c*** being put in charge at B6 though, thank the Lord.
Little did I know...
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Houllier. Left France for the Villa because he was dripping in egg after the French fiasco in South Africa. Used to stand on the Kop when he was a student, don't you know. Also France didn't qualify for USA 94 because of him, not Ginola. I refrain from calling him a wanker because he has had some health issues.
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Would you not embrace his experience of school-teaching and the Villa if he passed you by in the Perpignan mist?
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The TSM hiring really was strange.
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Looking back on that makes very interesting reading. I called it on Moyes eventually ending up at Utd. (puts hand up for a high five). For a few pages while there were rumours back then of him leaving Everton, many on here were clutching onto the hope that we were after Moyes to fill our Ginger haired manager shaped hole.
Funny to look back at that, having already basically ostracized Steve MacLaren as a possible manager here by bombarding the club with negative reaction, the closer it got to Eck being signed up becoming real, the more we suddenly started thinking that Schteeve might not have been all that bad. Ha ha. Funny old game football.
Strange that the club listened to us regarding MaClaren, but not Big Eck.
That summer was entirely embarrassing though. First rejected in our public pursuit of Martinez, then it became clear we were after Schteeve. The fans kicked up a stink and we changed tack. Mark Hughes quit Fulham, which hinted that it might be something to do with him. But we didn't go there, hinting that because he quit his club to join another, we didn't think he was the right man for the job.
Then McLeish quits his job (at our fierce local rivals he relegated twice and had playing the most fuck awful football), and we then sign him up.
I can only imagine that Randy lost a bet of some kind and as a forfeit had to make the worst decision in the history of humanity.
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Please, please, please can the 'MacLaren didn't get the job because of the fans' reaction' theory be filed in the Myths Cabinet, between the Five Year Plan and Mcleish getting it because Randy wanted a manager we could hate instead of him.
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Please, please, please can the 'MacLaren didn't get the job because of the fans' reaction' theory be filed in the Myths Cabinet, between the Five Year Plan and Mcleish getting it because Randy wanted a manager we could hate instead of him.
No because they're all true.
:)
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Please, please, please can the 'MacLaren didn't get the job because of the fans' reaction' theory be filed in the Myths Cabinet, between the Five Year Plan and Mcleish getting it because Randy wanted a manager we could hate instead of him.
No because they're all true.
:)
Has dan hacked into your account?
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Please, please, please can the 'MacLaren didn't get the job because of the fans' reaction' theory be filed in the Myths Cabinet, between the Five Year Plan and Mcleish getting it because Randy wanted a manager we could hate instead of him.
No because they're all true.
:)
Has dan hacked into your account?
I think it was the illuminati, slowly hacking accounts on here to bring about the NWO.
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Honestly, you lot will be telling me next that N'Zogbia is genuinely injured.
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Please, please, please can the 'MacLaren didn't get the job because of the fans' reaction' theory be filed in the Myths Cabinet, between the Five Year Plan and Mcleish getting it because Randy wanted a manager we could hate instead of him.
No because they're all true.
:)
Has dan hacked into your account?
You've got Pat Murphy to blame for that myth.
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I've just been reading the new manager thread from that period.
Here onwards
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=43650.5445
people saying no way will it be McLeish etc, then someone reports he's resigned, and it all snowballs.
Quote from Mazrim on that first page probably a good example of how unbelievable we all found it.
Its not bad news, its just a bookie's odds.
McLeish isnt going to be Villa manager any more than Barbara Streissand.
Barbra Streisand would have been more entertaining. But the ticket prices would have been a bit steep.
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Seemed appropriate to post here, a link from the bbc on one of our ex managers with a bit discussing us, as he was before my time (born june 87) what were fans general opinion of him? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24945469 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24945469)
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Seemed appropriate to post here, a link from the bbc on one of our ex managers with a bit discussing us, as he was before my time (born june 87) what were fans general opinion of him? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24945469 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24945469)
Nice enough bloke by put well out of his depth at villa - tried to change far too much too soon and the 6-0 defeat at forest was quite atrocious - should never have been given the villa job - huge clanger by Douglas!
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Seemed appropriate to post here, a link from the bbc on one of our ex managers with a bit discussing us, as he was before my time (born june 87) what were fans general opinion of him? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24945469 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24945469)
Nice enough bloke by put well out of his depth at villa - tried to change far too much too soon and the 6-0 defeat at forest was quite atrocious - should never have been given the villa job - huge clanger by Douglas!
I didn't like Turner from day one, but I'm not sure the changing so much so soon was totally his idea.
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I've just been reading the new manager thread from that period.
Here onwards
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=43650.5445
people saying no way will it be McLeish etc, then someone reports he's resigned, and it all snowballs.
Quote from Mazrim on that first page probably a good example of how unbelievable we all found it.
Its not bad news, its just a bookie's odds.
McLeish isnt going to be Villa manager any more than Barbara Streissand.
Barbra Streisand would have been more entertaining. But the ticket prices would have been a bit steep.
Nice one!
The dawning realisation it was going to be McLeish was awful. I went into work on Monday and told everyone not a hope in hell, by Thursday it was inevitable. What on earth was Randy thinking? We'll be talking about the insanity of that decision 50 years from now. Bizarre.
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Seemed appropriate to post here, a link from the bbc on one of our ex managers with a bit discussing us, as he was before my time (born june 87) what were fans general opinion of him? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24945469 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24945469)
Nice enough bloke by put well out of his depth at villa - tried to change far too much too soon and the 6-0 defeat at forest was quite atrocious - should never have been given the villa job - huge clanger by Douglas!
Agreed. As was said in a certain book about managers, "How can you go from Shrewsbury into a dressing room of internationals and European champions and tell them they're not good enough?" If he'd gone to Wolves first then us it might have been completely different.
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I was at that Forest game where we lost 6-0. Villa fans chanted to Clough all match "we'll take more care of you, Brian Clough, Brian Clough" and you could see his ego growing by the second. He loved it. At the end he came over to applaud us at the end.
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Had Houllier had a less abrasive number than McCallister things may have been easier with the squad. I think Gary Mac also had his fair share of problems during his stint here. The fact that neither the number 1 and 2 were very popular with the squad didn't help.
If you have a stand off-ish manager who doesn't take much shit, then I'd have thought the rule of thumb would be to have a right hand man who can play the good guy.
I thought Houllier had good ideas though. In retrospect, the injuries he suffered (possibly in part down to his new training regime) did not help him. The teams we had to put out in the middle third of the season were very thin on experience and quality. The fact too that we "lost" John Carew the second O Neill left, didn't help either. As inconsistent as he was, he was mercurial and a match winner. But with his fitness and attitude to grafting, he was never going to get on with Houllier (as had been proven at Lyon). We were just too predictable early on in the season. Carew could often, when he wanted to, do something from nothing. With AY struggling somewhat that year, playing as the second striker, we were quite easy to defend against. Heskey actually played quite well for a time under Houllier but obviously because he doesn't score many (despite him going on a little purple patch of 5 goals in 9 at one point) you need goals from midfield. So in that regard, we missed Jimmy M in CM.
When we had Bent come in, we seemed to have that missing link to turn our decent play in the first 2/3 of the pitch into goals. We were starting to take a step forward, before the McLeish appointment ended up being an almighty leap back.
My abiding memory of the GMAC caretaker spell was us drawing 1-1 against WBA, Paul Scharner gets sent off so we have extra space to counter attack and he brings on flipping Pires who singlehandly slowed down all our attacks. We lost 2-1. I do chuckle when some say why didn't we just give him the job, he would've been as bad as TSM. We did beat Arsenal and Liverpool but they were both on the beach at that stage and it's completely out of context with the results we had for pretty much all the season.
I believe in the confusion of MON's walkout the intial plan was to give the job to McDonald for the season seeing as there was a big emphasis on the youth at the time. But losing 6-0 to Newcastle and losing the 2nd leg to Vienna comically changed all that and we couldn't seriously make him head coach after that.
IMO then we handicapped ourselves by saying we wouldn't approach a premier league manager under contract. I doubt we would've got Moyes but in hindsight Martinez could've been pursued at this stage seeing as we went after him the next summer. Instead we got a half-baked up appointment of Houllier. Well remembered also we appointed him in early September 2010 and yet he couldn't even take up the job until Wolves on 25th September due to making tea at the French FA.
The next summer the club again made the error of stating they wanted a manager with premier league experience (rather than casting our net into Europe which seemed logical due to the steps Houllier had started). So we got TSM. No idea what the thought process was, all I can think is they looked at the period of 09- feb 11 (ignoring the relegations) and thought he could emulate that here....e.g finish top 10 and win a cup with a tough defence and good spirit. All we predictably got was dire football and a relegation battle we were lucky to survive after losing to Bolton.
Again that's why I'm happy to stick with Lambert and give him time. Who knows what the board will come up with next?!
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We seemed to be such an un-motivated disorganised bunch under Turner's reign.
When I look back at this period or before, I see certain things we failed to resolve:
Getting a decent replacement for Peter Withe (Rideout was poor)
Steve MacMahon was not yet ready to replace Dennis Mortimer (but he turned into a great player)
A solid replacement for Ken McNaught (instead of persevering with Brendan Ormsby).
Terrible injuries to Gary Shaw and Gordon Cowans.
We should have been in for players like John Wark, Alan Smith, john Metgod. I guess hindsight is a wonderful thing
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We seemed to be such an un-motivated bunch under Turner's reign.
When I look back at this period I see certain things we never sorted:
Decent replacement for Peter Withe (Rideout was poor)
Steve MacMahon was not yet ready to replace Dennis Mortimer (but he turned into a great player)
A solid replacement for Ken McNaught instead of persevering with Brendan Ormsby.
Terrible injuries to Gary Shaw and Gordon Cowans.
We should have been in for players like John Wark, Alan Smith, john Metgod. I guess hindsight is a wonderful thing
"We should have been signing players like Bryan Robson and Ray Wilkins. Alan Curbishley suited the chairman's wallet better." - Tony Morley.
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Doug's finest piece of business was refusing to give Ken Mcnaught a new contract and flogging him to Albion. Then spending twice as much to buy Steve Foster. Then selling him at a loss to Luton. Then spending twice as much again on the player he was keeping out of the Luton team, Paul Elliott.
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Doug's finest piece of business was refusing to give Ken Mcnaught a new contract and flogging him to Albion. Then spending twice as much to buy Steve Foster. Then selling him at a loss to Luton. Then spending twice as much again on the player he was keeping out of the Luton team, Paul Elliott.
And selling Kenny Swain to be replaced by Mark Jones (under Barton I think).
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Taking a look at the new manager thread again just as McLeish was being appointed was quite disturbing, it still made me feel a bit sick and nervous, what a terrible time that was.
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"Steve MacMahon was not yet ready to replace Dennis Mortimer (but he turned into a great player)"
I was speaking to McMahon a few months ago when I saw him locally - I asked him about his time at Villa and his replies gave me the opinion that he just didn`t want to be at the club - I also asked him if he had any fond memories and he replied he didn`t. I questioned if it had been "a marriage of convenienece" as players rarely crossed Stanley Park - he just grinned and I left it at that.
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"Steve MacMahon was not yet ready to replace Dennis Mortimer (but he turned into a great player)"
I was speaking to McMahon a few months ago when I saw him locally - I asked him about his time at Villa and his replies gave me the opinion that he just didn`t want to be at the club - I also asked him if he had any fond memories and he replied he didn`t. I questioned if it had been "a marriage of convenienece" as players rarely crossed Stanley Park - he just grinned and I left it at that.
I thoght McMahon was a cracking player during his short spell here - was sorry to see him go.
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McMahon was excellent for us on the pitch but bottled moving to Liverpool instead of us and regretted it until the time he put that right. It probably didn't help that Everton suddenly became great during his time with us. I spoke to him at a Swindon Town awards night in 1996 when my fiance at the time had a brother playing for their youth team. I didn't detect a hint of fondness for Villa.
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Great insight, cheers lads.
How bizarre, we were the super cup holders and only knocked out of the previous European Cup by a fantastic Juventus team. You'd have thought the Villa of 1983 would be a dream for most players.
Our home form at this time was stunning. If only we would have resolved our poor away form we would have been challenging big time.
Re Steve Foster, it's interesting that he was excellent for Luton. He looked bloody awful for us. Perhaps he was a small fish in a big pond?!?!
I never took to Paul Elliott; a shocking player. Curtis Davies reminded me a lot of PE
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McMahon was excellent for us on the pitch but bottled moving to Liverpool instead of us and regretted it until the time he put that right. It probably didn't help that Everton suddenly became great during his time with us. I spoke to him at a Swindon Town awards night in 1996 when my fiance at the time had a brother playing for their youth team. I didn't detect a hint of fondness for Villa.
It's more likely that Everton wouldn't sell him to Liverpool.
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For me, McMahon and Cowans together in midfield was a dream combination; except that it became very obvious that the former really didn't want to be in B6.
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Thing with McMahon is he always speaks well of us when doing the studio punditry on star sports, or something. He may have not enjoyed his time with us but he doesn't speak anything but positive towards us.
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For me, McMahon and Cowans together in midfield was a dream combination; except that it became very obvious that the former really didn't want to be in B6.
I think McMahon said at the time that Playing alongside Cowans was a major reason for joining us. Sadly that wasn't to happen in 83-84.
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McMahon was excellent for us on the pitch but bottled moving to Liverpool instead of us and regretted it until the time he put that right. It probably didn't help that Everton suddenly became great during his time with us. I spoke to him at a Swindon Town awards night in 1996 when my fiance at the time had a brother playing for their youth team. I didn't detect a hint of fondness for Villa.
It's more likely that Everton wouldn't sell him to Liverpool.
I seem to remember that around the time his contract was up at Everton in '83 he fell out with them because they gave his brother a free transfer. We took his brother on (not sure whether it was a short contract or a trial) when he joined us. Obviously as a bit of a sweetener.
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Seemed appropriate to post here, a link from the bbc on one of our ex managers with a bit discussing us, as he was before my time (born june 87) what were fans general opinion of him? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24945469 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24945469)
This bit made me laugh. The old "walk around the garden" routine.
"I got a call from the chairman on the Sunday morning saying we're having a board meeting at my house. It does not take a genius to work out what's going to happen next. I changed into my suit, the kids said 'Where are you off to Dad?' I said 'I think I'm going to get the sack'. And I went off for my walk round the garden with the chairman. But, within three weeks, I'd been approached by Wolves, so there wasn't too long to dwell on it."
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Am I right in thinking that despite the myth of Doug's walk of death around his garden it was only Turner who actually took that walk?
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Didn't Big Ron get the walk?
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I thought he got a call in his car to go to Villa Park and it was all over within the hour. Followed by his quote about going from considering buying Collymore to considering buying cauliflower.
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Am I right in thinking that despite the myth of Doug's walk of death around his garden it was only Turner who actually took that walk?
it would only work if both of them took the walk though.
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Am I right in thinking that despite the myth of Doug's walk of death around his garden it was only Turner who actually took that walk?
How was McNeill sacked? It should have been the ducking stool.
it would only work if both of them took the walk though.
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From what I've heard about the amount of times McNeill actually bothered travelling to the Midlands I would guess Doug sent him a telegram.