Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Concrete Tom on October 01, 2013, 10:26:26 PM

Title: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: Concrete Tom on October 01, 2013, 10:26:26 PM
Delph in the League Cup earlier this season followed by El Ahmadi and Bacuna on Saturday. Is there any possibility that we might lesson the Burden on our strikers this season?

Hopefully if Delph continues to play as he has been and continues to gain confidence, he might be the one to start scoring like he used to do at Leeds.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: not3bad on October 01, 2013, 10:32:18 PM
Hopefully both Delph and Bacuna can start to weigh in with more goals now. 
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: dekko on October 01, 2013, 10:38:10 PM
I've noticed since the end of last season our midfielders have been trying a lot more shots from distance.  Not always a good idea (eg Tonev at Norwich) but I'm sure we'll see them spank in the odd goal.

As previously mentioned, Delph used to score some great goals in his Leeds days (and was unlucky that the shot he hit the post with at Arsenal didnt go in) so I reckon we'll see him get 5-10 this year now he's getting better and more confident.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: paul_e on October 01, 2013, 10:38:31 PM
12 in 8 so far, 1/3 for Benteke, 1/3 for the rest of the strike force and 1/3 the rest of the team, that's not a bad split, given Benteke will get 25+ in my opinion if we've still got the same ratio at the end of the season we'll have no complaints.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: supertom on October 02, 2013, 08:00:17 AM
I think Benteke's injury forces us to explore different ways of playing. This also puts added pressure on midfield to score goals as well, which you would hope is pressure that will pay off. Last season it was very rare to see midfielders in the box or even close to getting in goalscoring opportunities. Benteke was at the heart of everything, and when things weren't going well he always had the ability to just get the ball and make a goal entirely by himself out of nothing.

I think long term Tekkers injury will make us a better side. It'll give us more ability to play without him but also to not play almost entirely through him.

Once Tonev settles you'd expect him to get a few screamers. Helenius looks capable of a special goal and hopefully in some "easier" games we can get him a few more minutes.

But yeah, Delphy should start adding goals soon. He's been unlucky a couple of times this season, notably against Arsenal. KEA may add a couple more to his tally this season if he continues playing. Bacuna looks capable of a good strike too. He scored a cracker in pre-season and the free kick at the weekend was different class. We've also got Zoggy to come back and Albrighton back in the managers thoughts. Both are capable of finding the net.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: themossman on October 02, 2013, 09:40:32 AM
Agree. If we can get a few decent results without benteke it will be great for the confidence of the other players too. They must feel a bit like the supporting cast when he's in the team.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: Phil from the upper holte on October 02, 2013, 10:39:38 AM
I think Tonev is shooting too much, Needs to have a bit of composure, however the Bacuna goal was one of the best I've seen down VP in a while
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: QBVILLA on October 02, 2013, 11:45:25 AM
I think Tonev is shooting too much, Needs to have a bit of composure, however the Bacuna goal was one of the best I've seen down VP in a while

Early days I know but I don't think Tonev will still be a Villa player in 12 months time.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 02, 2013, 12:05:50 PM
Out of interest, when was the last time we scored directly from a free kick at home in a league match?

I am imagining it is about 35 years ago, but am pretty sure it'll turn out to be not that long ago.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 02, 2013, 12:06:32 PM
I think Tonev is shooting too much, Needs to have a bit of composure, however the Bacuna goal was one of the best I've seen down VP in a while

I know it was only against Rotherham, but the build up to Delph's goal was one of the best moves I've ever seen at Villa Park.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: BoskoDjembaSalifou on October 02, 2013, 12:07:16 PM
Out of interest, when was the last time we scored directly from a free kick at home in a league match?

I am imagining it is about 35 years ago, but am pretty sure it'll turn out to be not that long ago.

N'Zogbia at home vs West Ham?
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: dave.woodhall on October 02, 2013, 12:07:48 PM
Out of interest, when was the last time we scored directly from a free kick at home in a league match?

I am imagining it is about 35 years ago, but am pretty sure it'll turn out to be not that long ago.

Didn't N'Zogbia get one last season?
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: pauliewalnuts on October 02, 2013, 12:08:12 PM
Out of interest, when was the last time we scored directly from a free kick at home in a league match?

I am imagining it is about 35 years ago, but am pretty sure it'll turn out to be not that long ago.

N'Zogbia at home vs West Ham?

Ta!

See, I knew it wasn't decades ago. It just felt like it!
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: olaftab on October 02, 2013, 12:22:05 PM
Out of interest, when was the last time we scored directly from a free kick at home in a league match?

I am imagining it is about 35 years ago, but am pretty sure it'll turn out to be not that long ago.
Yes it was Bruce Rioch since than nothing other than N'Zog last season and Ash Young, Gardner, Salano etc etc etc
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: Concrete John on October 02, 2013, 12:44:13 PM
I think Tonev is shooting too much, Needs to have a bit of composure, however the Bacuna goal was one of the best I've seen down VP in a while

Early days I know but I don't think Tonev will still be a Villa player in 12 months time.

It is early, but not too soon to say that he'll need to improve to have a future here.  It is, however, too early to start saying he won't.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: gnrpoison on October 02, 2013, 04:18:09 PM
Out of interest, when was the last time we scored directly from a free kick at home in a league match?

I am imagining it is about 35 years ago, but am pretty sure it'll turn out to be not that long ago.
Yes it was Bruce Rioch since than nothing other than N'Zog last season and Ash Young, Gardner, Salano etc etc etc

Didn't Milner get one against Everton in the 3-3 game bk in 08/09 or 09/10? Would be great for more to come from free kicks.



Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: eamonn on October 02, 2013, 06:11:09 PM
Gardner got a few from free-kicks but they always seemed to be daisy-cutters rather than top-corner porn.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: seanthevillan on October 02, 2013, 07:56:44 PM
Ashley Young scored a good one against Blackburn a few seaons ago, when we drew with them.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: LeeB on October 02, 2013, 09:28:12 PM
My favourite ever Villa free kick was Sid's away at Everton in 1990, where he tickled the ball over the wall and in off the bar from right on the edge of the box.

Pure class.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: Clampy on October 02, 2013, 09:32:07 PM
Did'nt Merson get one in that game when we sent Coventry down?
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: Can Gana Be Bettered!?!? on October 02, 2013, 09:33:53 PM
James Milner scored one as well I believe - Everton at home was it?
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: olaftab on October 02, 2013, 11:44:53 PM
Anyway only Vlaar and Lowton are capable of scoring from mid field. Others have to be a little closer!
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: Monty on October 02, 2013, 11:48:36 PM
Did'nt Merson get one in that game when we sent Coventry down?

Nope, a corner was cleared out to him about thirty yards out, so naturally he bastarded it into the top corner.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: olaftab on October 02, 2013, 11:50:55 PM
Gardner got a few from free-kicks but they always seemed to be daisy-cutters rather than top-corner porn.
He got one.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: eamonn on October 03, 2013, 01:54:51 AM
Two. Scored free-kicks in consecutive league games against Spurs (Four-one and you fucked it up) and a winner against West Ham.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: supertom on October 03, 2013, 03:28:57 PM
Did Tommy Hitz ever net a free kick? I'd be surprised if he didn't given his aptitude.

Stan Staunton must have had 1-2 over the years for us. Does a corner count?
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: bobdylan on October 03, 2013, 03:33:09 PM
Did Tommy Hitz ever net a free kick? I'd be surprised if he didn't given his aptitude.

Stan Staunton must have had 1-2 over the years for us. Does a corner count?

Hitz got one at home to Bolton in the League cup semis, don't remember Stan getting one.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: olaftab on October 03, 2013, 06:36:21 PM
Two. Scored free-kicks in consecutive league games against Spurs (Four-one and you fucked it up) and a winner against West Ham.
Oh yes I remember I had shaved that day and lost all my power but if you don't mind I'd rather not talk about that!
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: Concrete Tom on May 09, 2015, 03:33:22 PM
We finally have some goal scoring midfielders!
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: tom jennings III on May 09, 2015, 03:39:53 PM
Great resurrection of the thread! Shows how long we've been waiting. A goal for Grealish would be fantastic in the not too distant future.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: KRS on May 11, 2015, 04:03:08 AM
My favourite ever Villa free kick was Sid's away at Everton in 1990, where he tickled the ball over the wall and in off the bar from right on the edge of the box.

Pure class.
I remember that one as clear as daylight...I was in line with the ball as he stepped up, we paused, the ball hit the back of the net, we went mental. Also memorable for the longest rendition of Graham Taylors Claret and Blue Army that started before and went through half time into the second half.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: JD on May 11, 2015, 09:10:47 AM
Great resurrection of the thread! Shows how long we've been waiting. A goal for Grealish would be fantastic in the not too distant future.

The winner in the FA cup final would be a great start for Jack. He then wouldn't need to score again in his career.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: pauliewalnuts on May 11, 2015, 10:24:33 AM
The confusing thing about this is that what has changed it is really relatively simple.

Under Lambert, our midfielders never actually got in the box. They'd be all around it, passing the ball amongst themselves, but hardly ever in it.

Sherwood has clearly told them to get in there as often as they can.

Look at Cleverley's goal against Everton. He sees there's the chance to give Bacuna somewhere to play the ball, and he absolutely bombs it into the area, pretty much from just inside our half. Picks up the ball (superb pass from Bacuna) and scores.

That is emblematic of the difference.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: passitsideways on May 11, 2015, 11:50:37 AM
The confusing thing about this is that what has changed it is really relatively simple.

Under Lambert, our midfielders never actually got in the box. They'd be all around it, passing the ball amongst themselves, but hardly ever in it.

Sherwood has clearly told them to get in there as often as they can.

Look at Cleverley's goal against Everton. He sees there's the chance to give Bacuna somewhere to play the ball, and he absolutely bombs it into the area, pretty much from just inside our half. Picks up the ball (superb pass from Bacuna) and scores.

That is emblematic of the difference.

Yeah - it's not like the formation was any different compared to Lambert's time either: it was mostly 4-3-3 back then as well, yet the midfield three would all basically just sit really really deep and do absolutely nothing.

I think having Grealish and N'Zogbia (and Sinclair, to a degree back when he was starting) instead of Gabby and Andi as the two playing off Benteke have been influential as well though - even though they're both cutting inside a lot, they're just so much better at dragging defenders around, which opens up space for someone in midfield to make a run into.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: Holte L2 on May 11, 2015, 12:29:56 PM
The confusing thing about this is that what has changed it is really relatively simple.

Under Lambert, our midfielders never actually got in the box. They'd be all around it, passing the ball amongst themselves, but hardly ever in it.

Sherwood has clearly told them to get in there as often as they can.

Look at Cleverley's goal against Everton. He sees there's the chance to give Bacuna somewhere to play the ball, and he absolutely bombs it into the area, pretty much from just inside our half. Picks up the ball (superb pass from Bacuna) and scores.

That is emblematic of the difference.

Yeah - it's not like the formation was any different compared to Lambert's time either: it was mostly 4-3-3 back then as well, yet the midfield three would all basically just sit really really deep and do absolutely nothing.

I think having Grealish and N'Zogbia (and Sinclair, to a degree back when he was starting) instead of Gabby and Andi as the two playing off Benteke have been influential as well though - even though they're both cutting inside a lot, they're just so much better at dragging defenders around, which opens up space for someone in midfield to make a run into.

Completley agree with the NZogbia and Grealish post.  I really hope NZogbia continues this run in the side.  He's been fantastic recently.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: Matt Collins on May 13, 2015, 07:28:05 AM
Three key things for me on why the current 433 is so much better
- full backs now playing much better at pushing fwd to give width
- midfielders much more licence to get fwd - delph in particular is often playing quite wide
- nzogbia and grealish so much more creative than  weimann and gabby

Zoggy and grealish do need to start scoring some goals though, if we're going to keep playing this way. If benteke were to leave, unless we replace him with a prolific scorer, that will be even more true
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: Ron Manager on May 13, 2015, 07:38:05 AM
The confusing thing about this is that what has changed it is really relatively simple.

Under Lambert, our midfielders never actually got in the box. They'd be all around it, passing the ball amongst themselves, but hardly ever in it.

Sherwood has clearly told them to get in there as often as they can.

Look at Cleverley's goal against Everton. He sees there's the chance to give Bacuna somewhere to play the ball, and he absolutely bombs it into the area, pretty much from just inside our half. Picks up the ball (superb pass from Bacuna) and scores.

That is emblematic of the difference.

Yeah - it's not like the formation was any different compared to Lambert's time either: it was mostly 4-3-3 back then as well, yet the midfield three would all basically just sit really really deep and do absolutely nothing.

I think having Grealish and N'Zogbia (and Sinclair, to a degree back when he was starting) instead of Gabby and Andi as the two playing off Benteke have been influential as well though - even though they're both cutting inside a lot, they're just so much better at dragging defenders around, which opens up space for someone in midfield to make a run into.

Completley agree with the NZogbia and Grealish post.  I really hope NZogbia continues this run in the side.  He's been fantastic recently.

I agree. N'Zogbia is not getting enough credit for his recent performances. He could be a match winner, of that there is no doubt.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: not3bad on May 13, 2015, 08:03:16 AM
The confusing thing about this is that what has changed it is really relatively simple.

Under Lambert, our midfielders never actually got in the box. They'd be all around it, passing the ball amongst themselves, but hardly ever in it.

Sherwood has clearly told them to get in there as often as they can.

Look at Cleverley's goal against Everton. He sees there's the chance to give Bacuna somewhere to play the ball, and he absolutely bombs it into the area, pretty much from just inside our half. Picks up the ball (superb pass from Bacuna) and scores.

That is emblematic of the difference.

And the difference was seen straight away.  FA Cup v Leicester, Sherwood has a quick work at half time, and in the second half Bacuna makes a run into the box and scores a cracker.  Then Sinclair gets the second!!
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: tomd2103 on May 13, 2015, 08:48:23 PM
I think the trio of Delph, Cleverley and Grealish have the capabilities to chip in with the goals we have desperately needed from midfield for a while now.  All three have it in them to score at least ten each a season.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: Mister E on May 14, 2015, 10:18:54 AM
  I really hope NZogbia continues this run in the side.  He's been fantastic recently.
I think 'fantastic' is stretching credulity a little.
He has improved to a point where we can see that he has skills largely hithertofore not displayed. However, for a senior player on good money that cost £10m, we are still not seeing the end-product.
Although I've never really been a fan (in my view TSM bought him because he had been unable to 18 months' earlier when at the Sty), I accept that he has improved ...
... but I'd be picking Sinclair ahead of him, personally.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: tomd2103 on May 14, 2015, 10:28:53 AM
  I really hope NZogbia continues this run in the side.  He's been fantastic recently.
I think 'fantastic' is stretching credulity a little.
He has improved to a point where we can see that he has skills largely hithertofore not displayed. However, for a senior player on good money that cost £10m, we are still not seeing the end-product.
Although I've never really been a fan (in my view TSM bought him because he had been unable to 18 months' earlier when at the Sty), I accept that he has improved ...
... but I'd be picking Sinclair ahead of him, personally.

Agree with all of that. 
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: Toronto Villa on May 14, 2015, 12:53:06 PM
I love the fact that we now attack in waves especially on the counter. The big gap that used to exist between the forwards and everyone else no longer exists. We we push on everyone is so much higher up, and even when we lose the ball the closing down is so much faster. Attacking with 6 or 7 players as opposed to 1 or 2 makes a huge difference and it sounds simple but we weren't doing it before.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: LeeB on May 14, 2015, 02:08:12 PM
  I really hope NZogbia continues this run in the side.  He's been fantastic recently.
I think 'fantastic' is stretching credulity a little.
He has improved to a point where we can see that he has skills largely hithertofore not displayed. However, for a senior player on good money that cost £10m, we are still not seeing the end-product.
Although I've never really been a fan (in my view TSM bought him because he had been unable to 18 months' earlier when at the Sty), I accept that he has improved ...
... but I'd be picking Sinclair ahead of him, personally.

Agree with all of that. 

I don't. I think he's been great, and a big part of our upturn. Watch those clips of Grealish on Saturday, and see who keeps feeding him clever little passes.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: tomd2103 on May 14, 2015, 03:49:56 PM
  I really hope NZogbia continues this run in the side.  He's been fantastic recently.
I think 'fantastic' is stretching credulity a little.
He has improved to a point where we can see that he has skills largely hithertofore not displayed. However, for a senior player on good money that cost £10m, we are still not seeing the end-product.
Although I've never really been a fan (in my view TSM bought him because he had been unable to 18 months' earlier when at the Sty), I accept that he has improved ...
... but I'd be picking Sinclair ahead of him, personally.

Agree with all of that. 

I don't. I think he's been great, and a big part of our upturn. Watch those clips of Grealish on Saturday, and see who keeps feeding him clever little passes.

Clever little passes are great, but moves consistently break down when he has the ball around the box.  Case in point on Saturday, he broke down the left in the first half and had Grealish and Cleverley free in the middle and in on goal.  It really didn't look too difficult to make the pass from where I was sitting in the North Stand, but he ended up floating the ball intio the arms of the keeper.  Watch our recent games (including the semi final) and see how many times he gives the ball away in the final third.     
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: LeeB on May 14, 2015, 03:52:58 PM
Wind back to the quarter final and see who opens the game up for us.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: Monty on May 14, 2015, 03:57:42 PM
N'Zogbia has been pretty good, but he's kept up a few of his frustrating habits, such as running head-down into five defenders or letting the ball bobble off his shins and out of play. Nonetheless, he's been pretty good, and does an important job in the side (I've never seen him run so much in a Villa shirt before Sherwood came in!).
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: Ads on May 14, 2015, 03:59:06 PM
I think Sinclair carries more of a goal threat than N'Zogbia, who nonetheless has been playing well of late.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: tomd2103 on May 14, 2015, 10:28:13 PM
Wind back to the quarter final and see who opens the game up for us.

The fact that we're having to go back that far to find him having an assist says something.  Yes, he has looked more interested over the past month than the rest of the three and a bit seasons he has been at the club, but I still think we could do with better if we are to improve.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: PeterWithesShin on May 14, 2015, 10:35:15 PM
He got an assist against QPR as well. A player can contribute a lot to a result as well and not get a direct assist. He played a role in the winner in the semi as an example.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: leylandalbion on May 14, 2015, 10:42:17 PM
He is I granted somewhat frustrating but zog offers so much more than gabby. It also helps we have options so he is getting replaced after 70 mins meaning he can give his all. Sinclair is an option but more of a wide player. Give him credit he is playing well and he would be my starter at the moment. 
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: tomd2103 on May 14, 2015, 11:05:16 PM
He is I granted somewhat frustrating but zog offers so much more than gabby. It also helps we have options so he is getting replaced after 70 mins meaning he can give his all. Sinclair is an option but more of a wide player. Give him credit he is playing well and he would be my starter at the moment.

Oh I do give him credit and agree with your post (except that I think Sinclair could also play in a more central role).  My point was more with the future in mind, but as it stands I would also have Charles in the starting XI at the moment. 
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: tomd2103 on May 14, 2015, 11:13:33 PM
He got an assist against QPR as well. A player can contribute a lot to a result as well and not get a direct assist. He played a role in the winner in the semi as an example.

Sorry to nit pick, but he wasn't on the pitch for our first two goals against QPR and the third goal was a free kick by Benteke. 
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: PeterWithesShin on May 14, 2015, 11:18:51 PM
He got an assist against QPR as well. A player can contribute a lot to a result as well and not get a direct assist. He played a role in the winner in the semi as an example.

Sorry to nit pick, but he wasn't on the pitch for our first two goals against QPR and the third goal was a free kick by Benteke. 

Winning the freekick is classed as an assist, for Fantasy League purposes any way. So i'm claiming it for him.
Title: Re: Goals from the Midfield
Post by: tomd2103 on May 14, 2015, 11:26:07 PM
He got an assist against QPR as well. A player can contribute a lot to a result as well and not get a direct assist. He played a role in the winner in the semi as an example.

Sorry to nit pick, but he wasn't on the pitch for our first two goals against QPR and the third goal was a free kick by Benteke. 

Winning the freekick is classed as an assist, for Fantasy League purposes any way. So i'm claiming it for him.

Ah go on then! 
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