Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on September 23, 2013, 06:46:00 PM
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Available Tuesday night @9.30pm-ish.
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Absolute garbage. 0-3 at home to Spurs seconds. Ironically, we had some creativity, but no one to finish - we never quite get it right do we.
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I spoke too soon. FFS. Young and hungry anyone?
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Their squad is much better than ours.
Positives.
The general amount of effort from everyone.
Albrightons best performance for a couple of years probably.
Helenius looks like he could be quite useful.
Sylla looked pretty good until the 4th goal. certainly wasn't lacking fitness.
Robinson getting his debut.
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4-0 now mate.
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Complete and utter shit. I'm at the bus stop to get back to town and am seriously fucked off.
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As said in the other thread, I am starting to hate them again.
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It's either the worst thing to happen ever ever ever, or just a case of lots of our squad players and new ones blending into the league losing to a far superior team, who have had the luxury of spending a lot of money on players over the last few years whilst we've been cutting back. I think I'll go for the latter.
Albrighton had one of his better performances in recent years, Sylla improved after the break and I think Bacuna has slotted in quite nicely. Tonev was much better than Saturday too.
So people can complain, moan, beat PL or the players up about this, say "I've spent my money so I can complain as much as I like," but we'll have better performances in more important games than this.
Our best chance of a cup? Maybe, but I'm still optimistic about an improved performance in the league this season.
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embarrassing, we surrendered before the game and losing 4-0 is not acceptable. That kind of surrender does no good for the club at all and continues our dreadful form at home.
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When the manager intimates it isn't as important as the Citeh game, then you can't expect too much really.
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Their squad is much better than ours.
Positives.
The general amount of effort from everyone.
Albrightons best performance for a couple of years probably.
Helenius looks like he could be quite useful.
Sylla looked pretty good until the 4th goal. certainly wasn't lacking fitness.
Robinson getting his debut.
No positives from tonight.
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Absolute garbage. 0-3 at home to Spurs seconds. Ironically, we had some creativity, but no one to finish - we never quite get it right do we.
Wasn't really our 'firsts,' was it?
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Absolutely unacceptable from the entire club.
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The less I say about that the better. It's made me incredibly angry. I'm glad some have been rested for our heavy defeat on Saturday.
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We won 56-44 on possession - BBC
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Absolute garbage. 0-3 at home to Spurs seconds. Ironically, we had some creativity, but no one to finish - we never quite get it right do we.
Wasn't really our 'firsts,' was it?
Granted. We should have had the side that played them at home in the league last season, they would have given it a right good go - oh hang on.
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Happy the reserve players got a run out. The league matters far more.
Good to see Albrighton playing ok.
Besides that, pretty much all negative. We have a long long way to go.
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I dont think this does us any good for the Manc game to be fair . i think we could be walloped on Saturday
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As said in the other thread, I am starting to hate them again.
How can you hate your football team mate?
Piss you off...yes, but hate is a bit strong dont you think?
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Happy the reserve players got a run out. The league matters far more.
Good to see Albrighton playing ok.
Besides that, pretty much all negative. We have a long long way to go.
I don't see our reserves getting a run out as a positive, since they got absolutely dicked.
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Clear from Lamberts comments on Saturday and selection that this wasn't a priority.
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That was incredibly difficult to watch.
Hopefully we will have some of the first-teamers back for Saturday .
I fear a hammering to make tonights one look mild.
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Wasn't able to go tonight so listened on AVTV. What an irritating, gibbering dickhead Andy Blair is!!
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So glad I decided not to go. Put out a weakened side in the only less than zero chance we have of winning a competition and its no mystery people complain. You can't defend it really.
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Pretty piss poor really. Gifted them 3 goals. Didn't create too much. Midfield still a problem area.
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I think those who thought we would breeze into the top on the back of beating a load of shit off form teams towards the end of last season need to look at tonight.
We are also rans - behind Everton Swansea, Southampton and a few others who have built progressively over a few years.
I am willing to be patient as it will take time. I don't want to see another one of those performances in the next year - whoever we play!
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Why wasn't this a priority!? PL has been on record as saying we would take all cups seriously. Much better chance having a right go tonight than there is of getting anything Saturday in my opinion. Another PL cup balls up
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Happy the reserve players got a run out. The league matters far more.
Good to see Albrighton playing ok.
Besides that, pretty much all negative. We have a long long way to go.
I don't see our reserves getting a run out as a positive, since they got absolutely dicked.
a lot of these reserves were bought in the summer and I was expected them to be better than what we had . Oh well
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I hope we get some players back because if that side plays Man City...
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We clearly de-prioritised this game, rightly or wrongly and I think there was an air of inevitability about the comfort of spurs' performance. I wonder how many multiples their team cost compared to ours?
I can see another one of these scorelines coming on Saturday
Unfortunately, I think we have to get used to a league that's a bit more like most foreign leagues. We missed the boat for various reasons and now we need to get used to the fact that villa are unlikely to win anything of significance ever again (unless we get bought out by a multi-billionaire, not just a billionaire). Our best bet is to be run a bit like Everton but there's a fair bit of damage to unravel before then
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The gap between us is bigger than ever, Lamella, 1 player , cost more than all of our squad put together.
Having said that, partic 2nd half, we played some nice football, and appaling decision by the referee not to give the penalty, then foot up for their 2nd goal.
Positives for me, Bennett played well, both defensively and going foward, Baker was ok as was Vlaar, Bacuna and Sylla i thought played very well in a 4-4-2, and Helenius looks as if he has something about him.Tonev was ok, as was Albrighton.
Thought Lowton, Kovac and Bowery were poor tbh.
Did'nt expect much tonight, it was'nt a 4-0, Spuds are possibly the 2nd best team in the country.Not as bad a performance, partic 2nd half, as some on here will lead you to think.
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Weakened side ..I was under impression that other than Steer the rest not played where all carrying injuries ?
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People going on about the squad not being as good as theirs, bla, bla, I accept it, but this was a total and utter gulf in class difference. He had the chance to improve the squad in the summer and chose to go with the young and hungry policy again, leaving us still woefully short as a squad. Either, he had no choice through £ constraints in which case Lerner needs to tells us what he is planning to do with £60m or he had the choice and went ahead with this unworkable method of squad building. Either way it is utterly shit.
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Absolute garbage. 0-3 at home to Spurs seconds. Ironically, we had some creativity, but no one to finish - we never quite get it right do we.
When you have Lamela costing £27M and Paulinho £17M which cost more than the whole Team we put out its hardly surprising, I thought considering the team we put out we played some decent stuff at times and didn't deserve the scoreline.
We just don't have the quality in depth that spurs have.
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Think Lambert wrote this off before we started which was disapointing.
For me we have around 14 players who are good enough and the rest who arent against the best teams.
He has to find a better way to play at home. 0-4 is not good enough.
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I almost went to that and spent more than our transfer budget in, projecting Lerner's budget spiral, 2015. Yes, about 50 quid. Close escape.
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As said in the other thread, I am starting to hate them again.
How can you hate your football team mate?
Piss you off...yes, but hate is a bit strong dont you think?
I hate my mother but I still love her....
I'm just being dramatic, they are decent lads who work hard so you can't hate that.
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Look, I know you optimists are just looking it from a glass half full perspective and trying to be realistic. Good for you.
But as you say, Spurs are clearly far better than we are.
That in itself is a hugely depressing state of affairs. I reserve the right to be well and truly fucked off.
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Why wasn't this a priority!? PL has been on record as saying we would take all cups seriously. Much better chance having a right go tonight than there is of getting anything Saturday in my opinion. Another PL cup balls up
we were putting 4 past Man city last year at the etihad ;(
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Have to be said that was a crap performance by a crap 11. Albrighton huffed and puffed...can't really say anything positive about anyone else.
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The gap between us is bigger than ever, Lamella, 1 player , cost more than all of our squad put together.
Having said that, partic 2nd half, we played some nice football, and appaling decision by the referee not to give the penalty, then foot up for their 2nd goal.
Positives for me, Bennett played well, both defensively and going foward, Baker was ok as was Vlaar, Bacuna and Sylla i thought played very well in a 4-4-2, and Helenius looks as if he has something about him.Tonev was ok, as was Albrighton.
Thought Lowton, Kovac and Bowery were poor tbh.
Did'nt expect much tonight, it was'nt a 4-0, Spuds are possibly the 2nd best team in the country.Not as bad a performance, partic 2nd half, as some on here will lead you to think.
Spot on mate, cant disagree with this comment.
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Worrying. Very worrying.
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We should have had a penalty. But I can't argue with the amount they scored. The best team won. (vomit).
It feels like we haven't progressed from last season much, and actually, it feels like we've regressed somewhat. We had some excellent form at the end of last year. Sod, it, on to the next one. Up the Villa.
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By the way the inaccuracy of the commentary on 5 live was astounding
Apparently we have citeh then Chelsea next, Lowton came up through the youth team, Suarez was playing tonight, we lost at Norwich at the weekend.
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The gap between us is bigger than ever, Lamella, 1 player , cost more than all of our squad put together.
Having said that, partic 2nd half, we played some nice football, and appaling decision by the referee not to give the penalty, then foot up for their 2nd goal.
Positives for me, Bennett played well, both defensively and going foward, Baker was ok as was Vlaar, Bacuna and Sylla i thought played very well in a 4-4-2, and Helenius looks as if he has something about him.Tonev was ok, as was Albrighton.
Thought Lowton, Kovac and Bowery were poor tbh.
Did'nt expect much tonight, it was'nt a 4-0, Spuds are possibly the 2nd best team in the country.Not as bad a performance, partic 2nd half, as some on here will lead you to think.
Spot on mate, cant disagree with this comment.
I can with all of it.Spurs didn't need to play 2nd half.They knew they had already won.
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Their squad is much better than ours.
Positives.
The general amount of effort from everyone.
Albrightons best performance for a couple of years probably.
Helenius looks like he could be quite useful.
Sylla looked pretty good until the 4th goal. certainly wasn't lacking fitness.
Robinson getting his debut.
And possession at home more than 50%.
Wondering who might have been able to come on, let alone start, with the knocks and injuries in the squad. Time till Saturday for some key players to recover.
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I just don't think it's acceptable for Aston Villa to completely surrender a game at home to anyone. Not good enough from anyone involved.
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I just don't think it's acceptable for Aston Villa to completely surrender a game at home to anyone. Not good enough from anyone involved.
Spot on!
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Look, I know you optimists are just looking it from a glass half full perspective and trying to be realistic. Good for you.
But as you say, Spurs are clearly far better than we are.
That in itself is a hugely depressing state of affairs. I reserve the right to be well and truly fucked off.
Yes spurs are currently better than we are and you could argue they have a better squad than Man Ure and Arsenal its hardly embarrassing. But the way we are looking at it is long term not quick fix.
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Why wasn't this a priority!? PL has been on record as saying we would take all cups seriously. Much better chance having a right go tonight than there is of getting anything Saturday in my opinion. Another PL cup balls up
He obviously looked at it and thought there is no way even if we get to the semis we could beat Bradford so decided not to prioritise it to stop injuries and the like.
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More blind positivity from me. I think our cup run last season hurt us in the league. Hopefully us getting knocked out this early will help us this season?
Just trying to see the bright side here :)
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It's all well and good looking for positives, but tonight shows how piss poor our overall squad is, after a not insignificant amount has been spent on it.
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no Benteke no Okore . Im expecting 5 -0 loss on Saturday .
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It's either the worst thing to happen ever ever ever, or just a case of lots of our squad players and new ones blending into the league losing to a far superior team, who have had the luxury of spending a lot of money on players over the last few years whilst we've been cutting back. I think I'll go for the latter.
Albrighton had one of his better performances in recent years, Sylla improved after the break and I think Bacuna has slotted in quite nicely. Tonev was much better than Saturday too.
So people can complain, moan, beat PL or the players up about this, say "I've spent my money so I can complain as much as I like," but we'll have better performances in more important games than this.
Our best chance of a cup? Maybe, but I'm still optimistic about an improved performance in the league this season.
Lambert has had enough money to spend, or to not use, to make sure we play better than that. I can't see any other team in the league handing a game to Spurs like that. Sounds like it was worse than last year's 0-4 to them in the league. As for resting players - for what? Man City at home, when regardless of our line-up we will defend in numbers, have 22% possession and hope we burn them on the break. The chances of it being successful? Well, have a gander at the bookies' odds.
How many more shaggin' years of transition do we have to put-up with?
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Not acceptable - about time Lerner stated his intentions - has he bothered to watch us 'live' this season?
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Their squad is much better than ours.
Positives.
The general amount of effort from everyone.
Albrightons best performance for a couple of years probably.
Helenius looks like he could be quite useful.
Sylla looked pretty good until the 4th goal. certainly wasn't lacking fitness.
Robinson getting his debut.
We lost 4-0 at home. They're are no positives what so ever.
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I missed the game but heard Dean Saunders mystified that we weren't closing the Spurrrrrrrrs players down more; he said that our front 6 were not putting in the effort to stem the balls into the danger areas. Certainly sounded like we were against Barcodes, where we were also poor at pressing.
That is a coaching and fitness issue. Not ignoring the difference in quality between the players, we could have done alot better than we did; which is pretty discouraging.
Delighted for Albrighton that he has made a re-appearance in the team.
I'm not looking forward to being at VP on Saturday, TBH; but will be.
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Ok. Let's look at this rationally...
We were beaten by the reserves of a much superior side. It's to be expected. They're much better than us. They qualified for Europe and everything.Not a problem is it?
So, since when did we so readily accept Spurs are a superior club to us?
Who next? Everton? Swansea? Stoke? Wigan?
AND when did we start to accept we could lose to a superior club without a fight. The way Bradford fought against us last year.
Make all the excuses and dismissals you want, there is a serious problem with this Aston Villa side these days.
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Looked forward to this game and thought it would be a hard fought cup tie. The line up said otherwise. Not quite as bad as Moscow or Citeh but nevertheless bloody shite. Pissed off.
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Not acceptable - about time Lerner stated his intentions - has he bothered to watch us 'live' this season?
Yes.
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I would not pay too much attention to what Saunders said after some of the shit he came out with today.
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In the league I do wonder if we'll get back to being a regular top half club or will bottom half become the norm.
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I don't think we will get quality players in until CB goes tbh kippax.For me we are not in the position to spend £10m on each position, more for attacking players, so we need to take gambles on players like Hughes, like Lestienne, and hope they turn into good/great players.
On the positives, i thought Sylla and Bacuna 2nd half were very good, Bennett probably deserves a chance further up the pitch, and for me Helenius, when he gets up to the speed of the prem, looks another good player.The next step for us has to be £10m players, otherwise we are going to remain light years behind the top 5/6.
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The gap between us is bigger than ever, Lamella, 1 player , cost more than all of our squad put together.
Having said that, partic 2nd half, we played some nice football, and appaling decision by the referee not to give the penalty, then foot up for their 2nd goal.
Positives for me, Bennett played well, both defensively and going foward, Baker was ok as was Vlaar, Bacuna and Sylla i thought played very well in a 4-4-2, and Helenius looks as if he has something about him.Tonev was ok, as was Albrighton.
Thought Lowton, Kovac and Bowery were poor tbh.
Did'nt expect much tonight, it was'nt a 4-0, Spuds are possibly the 2nd best team in the country.Not as bad a performance, partic 2nd half, as some on here will lead you to think.
Spot on mate, cant disagree with this comment.
I can with all of it.Spurs didn't need to play 2nd half.They knew they had already won.
If the ref had give us a penalty and disallowed there goal for dangerous play, I wouldn't have said Spurs knew they had already won.
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Soon as I saw the line up I knew we would hav no chance so no surprise for me really .NEXT !!
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Fuck, we are poor. Bowery certainly did not grab his chance. Helenius tried and wanted the ball more. How was that shorts moment not a penalty ??? There was (as usual at home) much more aggression and willingness to try things in the second half, but the quality is just not there.
Yes, Tottenham are better, but I do not like the assumption that we should just accept it as a fact that they are miles ahead of us. Remember, not so long ago we were told Champions League was what we were aiming for. Now it is all about bringing wages down and giving "Young and hungry" lower League players the chance to improve Aston Villa Football Club.
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Absolutely piss poor from a shocking Villa team, and that slowed down song they sing is fucking horrible.
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Yet another defeat, yet another humiliation. I remember when we used to regularly beat Tottenham home and away, now we bow down to them like they're Real Madrid or something.
Is anyone really enjoying life as a Villa fan under Lambert and more importantly Randy Lerner?
This really isn't acceptable. We seem to have turned into Stoke, just happy to plod along and survive in the PL, and sod the cup competitions. Is there anyone at the club with a bit of pride in the claret and blue?
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Loved Dean Saunders as a player but given his managerial record I take no notice of him now
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I still do not get his comments before this game. It is utterly unacceptable. For years, this competition became our cup, it was exciting to be in it, it's our only fcuking chance of silverware let's face it (don't say it's our year by the way on the other unmentionable) so why not have a fcuking go. Presumably it is to ensure we tread water in the Premier League again and obtain £60m but for what - doing up another pub?!
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Garbage.
As soon as I saw the team put out I didn't think we had a chance.
Really we need to buck our ideas up and actually try to at least make it difficult for the opposition at VP, it's far too easy.
If we're not careful we'll be pasted in our next two home league games and will struggle to win one before boxing day.
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AVB " Villa Park is always a difficult place to come"
Are you taking the piss?
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Tonights positives?
I' ve had a really tender steak
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So glad I came back. Fucking dire. Only players worth anything tonight were Sylla and Steer.
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Look, I know you optimists are just looking it from a glass half full perspective and trying to be realistic. Good for you.
But as you say, Spurs are clearly far better than we are.
That in itself is a hugely depressing state of affairs. I reserve the right to be well and truly fucked off.
Yes spurs are currently better than we are and you could argue they have a better squad than Man Ure and Arsenal its hardly embarrassing. But the way we are looking at it is long term not quick fix.
I know, I know. But I just wish it didn't have to take so long. I'm encouraging (well, forcing) my eldest to be a Villa fan, and it'd be great if his grandkids could see us established as a top six side again.
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I would not pay too much attention to what Saunders said after some of the shit he came out with today.
I enjoyed hearing from him to begin with, for sheer novelty value and nostalgia.
Then my ears heard the phrase: "world class" and I realised he was talking about Defoe!
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I still do not get his comments before this game. It is utterly unacceptable. For years, this competition became our cup, it was exciting to be in it, it's our only fcuking chance of silverware let's face it (don't say it's our year by the way on the other unmentionable) so why not have a fcuking go. Presumably it is to ensure we tread water in the Premier League again and obtain £60m but for what - doing up another pub?!
I think If we hadn't had so many injuries we would have put out a stronger team we just couldn't.
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aside from the fact that we looked like a league 1 side huffing and puffing against one of the big boys, none of the new signings have moved the team onto a next level.
you look at spurs and the strength they have in depth, they technically piss all over us, and that has happened in 4 years or so. the difference? savvy leadership at the top.
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Loved Dean Saunders as a player but given his managerial record I take no notice of him now
I've never warmed to him, remember him saying leaving Liverpool to join Villa was obviously a step down at the time he signed.
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More shit.
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Lambert's comments this morning set the tone about not taking this game seriously, we better put in a good performance now against City but I'm not holding my breath.
Fair play to the 20k villa fans who bothered to turn up tonight.
As Saunders H says Villa Park used to be a bogey ground for Spurs even when they had a decent team a few years back. Now it's rapidly becoming another Man. United scenario when they just turn up and stroll to victory.
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Fuck, we are poor. Bowery certainly did not grab his chance. Helenius tried and wanted the ball more. How was that shorts moment not a penalty ??? There was (as usual at home) much more aggression and willingness to try things in the second half, but the quality is just not there.
Yes, Tottenham are better, but I do not like the assumption that we should just accept it as a fact that they are miles ahead of us. Remember, not so long ago we were told Champions League was what we were aiming for. Now it is all about bringing wages down and giving "Young and hungry" lower League players the chance to improve Aston Villa Football Club.
They might be at the moment but 3 years ago it was the other way round.
This Villa side is a work in progress. No problem, we will get there. Just not tonight!
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We had better beat Citeh on Saturday:)
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aside from the fact that we looked like a league 1 side huffing and puffing against one of the big boys, none of the new signings have moved the team onto a next level.
you look at spurs and the strength they have in depth, they technically piss all over us, and that has happened in 4 years or so. the difference? savvy leadership at the top.
yet despite all that spending...they wont win the league and that's the big problem with the premier League .
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Poor home performance. Sounds familiar.
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Spurs have consistently spent big, got lucky with the Bale fee and are now reaping the rewards. I think they will finish top 3.
We are the opposite. Sell our best players aNd pay peanuts to replace them.
Bet Benteke is regretting his decision to stay.
UTV
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Spurs have consistently spent big, got lucky with the Bale fee and are now reaping the rewards. I think they will finish top 3.
We are the opposite. Sell our best players aNd pay peanuts to replace them.
Bet Benteke is regretting his decision to stay.
UTV
Stephen Ireland was our best player?
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And the more I think about it, Im struggling to think of anything as bad under McLeish as I've witnessed at home already this season.
The football was dull, but the organization was there. At least the players gave the impression they were being coached and working to a plan.
While I'm not saying for one minute I want to go back to that, you've got to start questioning Paul Lamberts credentials. What has he done to address the glaringly obvious failings of last season?
Is the Emperor as well dressed as we thought he was?
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Spurs have consistently spent big, got lucky with the Bale fee and are now reaping the rewards. I think they will finish top 3.
We are the opposite. Sell our best players aNd pay peanuts to replace them.
Bet Benteke is regretting his decision to stay.
UTV
Stephen Ireland was our best player?
No, but Milner, Barry, Young and Downing were (and others too) I think that's what he was getting at. We've sold too many good players and replaced them with inferior ones. That's why we as a club have plummeted.
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Fuck, we are poor. Bowery certainly did not grab his chance. Helenius tried and wanted the ball more. How was that shorts moment not a penalty ??? There was (as usual at home) much more aggression and willingness to try things in the second half, but the quality is just not there.
Yes, Tottenham are better, but I do not like the assumption that we should just accept it as a fact that they are miles ahead of us. Remember, not so long ago we were told Champions League was what we were aiming for. Now it is all about bringing wages down and giving "Young and hungry" lower League players the chance to improve Aston Villa Football Club.
They might be at the moment but 3 years ago it was the other way round.
This Villa side is a work in progress. No problem, we will get there. Just not tonight!
Work in progress we have heard that for the past 3 years.Lets face it staying in the Premier League seems to be all the club want.I was really positive at the start of the season,but now it just seems to be the same dire performances at home.If anything we have gone backwards.
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And the more I think about it, Im struggling to think of anything as bad under McLeish as I've witnessed at home already this season.
The football was dull, but the organization was there. At least the players gave the impression they were being coached and working to a plan.
While I'm not saying for one minute I want to go back to that, you've got to start questioning Paul Lamberts credentials. What has he done to address the glaringly obvious failings of last season?
Is the Emperor as well dressed as we thought he was?
Your joking right !!! The Football under McLeish was abysmal.
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Sure some games are more important then others but we should NEVER have to edure humilation on Villa Park to Spurs.
Sylla was good for most of the time, getting us some possession and Bacuna looks like he is improving with every game. Both look very fit and powerful.
Bowry did what he does best, find a way to be invisable in plain sight...
Baker is clearly still subpar to Clark, who in turn is not much worse then Vlaar. The sad thing being is thats not a high mark to aim for.
Bennet didnt do any worse then Luna. Some good attempts going forward in 2nd half but poor crosses aiming for God knows Who.
Helenius clearly need some quality around him. I think rather have him over Tonev as a complementing target behind Benteke as an offensive midfielder.
And lets hope Guzan never ever gets injured because he wouldnt let those crappy finishes at 2nd and 3rd get past him.
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Spurs have consistently spent big, got lucky with the Bale fee and are now reaping the rewards. I think they will finish top 3.
We are the opposite. Sell our best players aNd pay peanuts to replace them.
Bet Benteke is regretting his decision to stay.
UTV
Stephen Ireland was our best player?
No, but Milner, Barry, Young and Downing were (and others too) I think that's what he was getting at. We've sold too many good players and replaced them with inferior ones. That's why we as a club have plummeted.
... and it will continue with Benteke leaving next summer!
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Spurs?
At home ?
In the cup?
I thought we'd at least try and give them a fucking game.
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If Helenius had not been sexually assaulted it might of been a different game.
I'm sure the original comments made by PL that we were serious about the cup were made with good intentions. However, injuries over the weekend probably blew his team selection for tonight out of the water.
I think that there were some positives to have out of tonight. Albrighton not yet back to his best, but it must of given him some confidence getting a game and doing ok.
And Both Helenius and Bacuna I think he will be a good player's once they get up to the speed of the Premier League.
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Helenius looks like he could be quite useful.
I know......AND he has a big dangly cock.
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And the more I think about it, Im struggling to think of anything as bad under McLeish as I've witnessed at home already this season.
The football was dull, but the organization was there. At least the players gave the impression they were being coached and working to a plan.
While I'm not saying for one minute I want to go back to that, you've got to start questioning Paul Lamberts credentials. What has he done to address the glaringly obvious failings of last season?
Is the Emperor as well dressed as we thought he was?
Your joking right !!! The Football under McLeish was abysmal.
TSM's final home game at VP was against Spurs. We were 1 up and they had Danny Rose sent off. What happened? Spurs dominated possession, quickly equalised and should've beaten us. With 10 men.
It's always tempting things were better previously but they really weren't.
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aside from the fact that we looked like a league 1 side huffing and puffing against one of the big boys, none of the new signings have moved the team onto a next level.
you look at spurs and the strength they have in depth, they technically piss all over us, and that has happened in 4 years or so. the difference? savvy leadership at the top.
yet despite all that spending...they wont win the league and that's the big problem with the premier League .
i'm surprised you can dismiss them. they'll certainly be up there.
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And the more I think about it, Im struggling to think of anything as bad under McLeish as I've witnessed at home already this season.
The football was dull, but the organization was there. At least the players gave the impression they were being coached and working to a plan.
While I'm not saying for one minute I want to go back to that, you've got to start questioning Paul Lamberts credentials. What has he done to address the glaringly obvious failings of last season?
Is the Emperor as well dressed as we thought he was?
I like Lambert, and want him to do well, but I'm a bit concerned with our progress.
Our defence was shockingly bad last season. I mean, let's be honest, it was absolutely atrocious. You'd think that any sensible manager's first priority would have been to bring in some better quality defenders and try to rebalance the midfield to give us a proper screen in front of the back four. Now of course, he's been very unlucky with the Okore injury, and the young lad does look like he's going to be a really good signing. But he didn't bring in any proven quality at all, no experience in either defence or midfield. He's persisting with a midfield set-up that involves three central players charging around pressing the opposition, with nobody given specific instructions to sit and move laterally to mop up attacks and calm the play like Petrov did, and nobody specifically given licence to roam in front of the front men.
To me, he hasn't addressed the fundamental problems we had last year, he's just signed like for like players to expand the squad, not improve it. So logically, we can expect more of the same, until the existing players become better and more experienced themselves. Which is going to take a long time, and may not happen at all in some cases, especially if they have nobody better than them at the club to learn from.
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Quote from: Louzie0 on Today at 10:08:15 PM
Quote from: Rudy65 on Today at 10:05:49 PM
Spurs have consistently spent big, got lucky with the Bale fee and are now reaping the rewards. I think they will finish top 3.
We are the opposite. Sell our best players aNd pay peanuts to replace them.
Bet Benteke is regretting his decision to stay.
UTV
Stephen Ireland was our best player?
No, but Milner, Barry, Young and Downing were (and others too) I think that's what he was getting at. We've sold too many good players and replaced them with inferior ones. That's why we as a club have plummeted.
Correct
In addition we break our record transfer fee on Bent who is then out on loan 2 years later. More money wasted.That and £20m on Ireland in the fee and wages. You couldn't make it up.
When we invest money we waste it
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Spurs have consistently spent big, got lucky with the Bale fee and are now reaping the rewards. I think they will finish top 3.
We are the opposite. Sell our best players aNd pay peanuts to replace them.
Bet Benteke is regretting his decision to stay.
UTV
Stephen Ireland was our best player?
No, but Milner, Barry, Young and Downing were (and others too) I think that's what he was getting at. We've sold too many good players and replaced them with inferior ones. That's why we as a club have plummeted.
... and it will continue with Benteke leaving next summer!
Ok - all into the cut!
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I've been a villa fan now for 30 oddyears! I've neve witnessed such a load of shite like that! Fuck me we have fallen!
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Just as shit as the performance was the attendance. less than 20,000 Villa fans arsed to go to a cheap game is shit.
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@MatKendrick: Hearing that Christian Benteke is out for a month #avfc
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I've been a villa fan now for 30 oddyears! I've neve witnessed such a load of shite like that! Fuck me we have fallen!
It wasn't an Arsenal in 1986.
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It's far too early to judge the team based on a performance in the cup when we fielded mostly second string players that have hardly kicked a ball in anger. Injuries have forced his hand tonight. We've competed against Arsenal, Chelsea & Liverpool this season. We have just got our first clean sheet and an away win and we've had a dire performance against the barcodes in between that lot. That's an improvement already on last year, although lord knows whey we didn't try and sign a "playmaker".
Our home form and tactics need sorting, we know that. But tonight is not the game to judge that one on, not with the team we had out.
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And the more I think about it, Im struggling to think of anything as bad under McLeish as I've witnessed at home already this season.
The football was dull, but the organization was there. At least the players gave the impression they were being coached and working to a plan.
While I'm not saying for one minute I want to go back to that, you've got to start questioning Paul Lamberts credentials. What has he done to address the glaringly obvious failings of last season?
Is the Emperor as well dressed as we thought he was?
Your joking right !!! The Football under McLeish was abysmal.
I know, that's what I said.
What I'm asking is, whether Lamberts is any better?
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I've been a villa fan now for 30 oddyears! I've neve witnessed such a load of shite like that! Fuck me we have fallen!
You must have had your eyes closed at times then?
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That first half was a fucking joke and an embarrassment. No clue, no effort, no tactics, no idea from manager and players. To not even try is fucking pathetic. It doesn't matter how much the other team cost, to not try is appalling. I spent £20 to watch them not bother.
Despite an improvement in the second half, which wasn't hard and helped by Spurs laughing too much at us to take their game as serious, it wasn't enough to forgive what went on in the first half.
Many players are clearly not good enough, but the manager needs to take some responsibility for that first half performance. What on earth was our gameplan? There wasn't one other than watch Spurs play then occasionally lump it to Kozak but don't bother trying to support him.
Fucking well pissed off tonight. The end of last season made me think we were at least going to try and win games this season and put up a fight. Signs that's not necessarily the case this season isn't good.
I know loads of players were injured, but those there should feel ashamed.
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Just as shit as the performance was the attendance. less than 20,000 Villa fans arsed to go to a cheap game is shit.
True, but im £80 better off by not watching that tonight!
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Not that it would have made much difference in the end I imagine, but being 1-1 from a clear as fucking day penalty might have helped a little. That has to be one of the most astonishing decisions ever not to give that. First Terry, now this. Have we pissed someone off?
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That was utterly abysmal.
We were outclassed all over the park. To think that we are so far behind Spurs' second string is totally galling.
This work in progress, team in transition is bloody painful.
How long does it last?
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Sounds like a poor Villa side bowing out of a cup to concentrate on a relegation battle.
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Not that it would have made much difference in the end I imagine, but being 1-1 from a clear as fucking day penalty might have helped a little. That has to be one of the most astonishing decisions ever not to give that. First Terry, now this. Have we pissed someone off?
The visual of a Villa player getting his pants pulled down was probably indistinguishable from what was happening to the team as a collective for 90 min.
He could probably have mounted poor Helineius there and then and the ref would still think its just Villa getting screwed at Villa Park as usual....
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And the more I think about it, Im struggling to think of anything as bad under McLeish as I've witnessed at home already this season.
The football was dull, but the organization was there. At least the players gave the impression they were being coached and working to a plan.
While I'm not saying for one minute I want to go back to that, you've got to start questioning Paul Lamberts credentials. What has he done to address the glaringly obvious failings of last season?
Is the Emperor as well dressed as we thought he was?
No, he's buck naked IMO.
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Has PL come out with any comments yet... hopefully when he does it is a little more than "we go again".
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Has PL come out with any comments yet... hopefully when he does it is a little more than "we go again".
Aston Villa boss Paul Lambert: "(On Nicklas Helenius getting his shorts pulled down): That was a big moment. It thought it was a pen. I don't think anybody could believe it. It was a strange decision.
"I didn't think there were four goals in that. We had a lot of players out injured and they were too much for us. But I couldn't fault the lads for effort.
"We gave it a go in the second half and their second goal was a really poor goal from our point of view.
"There are a couple of plus points from individual performances. Nathan Baker is coming back after injury. Marc Albrighton was excellent."
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Has PL come out with any comments yet... hopefully when he does it is a little more than "we go again".
The new quote is ' we lost again'
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The worst thing for me was that we were so clearly not able to compete with them. They had £100m of talent on the bench, and I said to my brother that I estimate the starting line up combined cost less than Lamela. I'm all for "the plan" but in building we are being left so far behind by a team that only 4-5 years back you could make a strong argument we were at least as good as if not marginally better.
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I've been a villa fan now for 30 oddyears! I've neve witnessed such a load of shite like that! Fuck me we have fallen!
You must have had your eyes closed at times then?
Losing at home to Man Citeh = 5-1
Losing at home to Leeds - 4-1
Losing at home to Bradford (Simod Cup) 5-0
Losing at home to SHA - 3-0
Losing at home to Norwich - 4-1 (1986)
All off the top of my head that were worse than tonight. But you are right we are shite.
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It was disappointing but I thought 4-0 was a bit harsh in the end.
I hope Lambert gives Albrighton another crack over the next few weeks because after the injuries he's had, he deserves another chance, he did well in the second half.
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Quote from: Ian J on Today at 10:23:37 PM
Quote from: Desontheholte on Today at 10:19:45 PM
I've been a villa fan now for 30 oddyears! I've neve witnessed such a load of shite like that! Fuck me we have fallen!
You must have had your eyes closed at times then?
Losing at home to Man Citeh = 5-1
Losing at home to Leeds - 4-1
Losing at home to Bradford (Simod Cup) 5-0
Losing at home to SHA - 3-0
Losing at home to Norwich - 4-1 (1986)
All off the top of my head that were worse than tonight. But you are right we are shite.
You forgot
Blackburn 0-4
Coventry 1-4
We had hope with MON and now its all gone to shit
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Insipid. Pathetic. Red wine...
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(https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1374289_714835125210715_139504976_n.jpg)
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I've been a villa fan now for 30 oddyears! I've neve witnessed such a load of shite like that! Fuck me we have fallen!
You must have had your eyes closed at times then?
Losing at home to Man Citeh = 5-1
Losing at home to Leeds - 4-1
Losing at home to Bradford (Simod Cup) 5-0
Losing at home to SHA - 3-0
Losing at home to Norwich - 4-1 (1986)
All off the top of my head that were worse than tonight. But you are right we are shite.
But Lambert's Villa have provided us with some absolute stinkers in his short period as Manager though. There can't be many managers in our history who have dished up as much crap as Lambert has in his tenure.
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Tickets £32
Fuel £25
Parking £5
Programme £3
Various ancillary items £8
So £73 spunked for that shite, fucking disgusted
No effort at All
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(https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1374289_714835125210715_139504976_n.jpg)
Just incredible how he wasn't penalised for that. Pathetic.
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We clearly de-prioritised this game, rightly or wrongly and I think there was an air of inevitability about the comfort of spurs' performance. I wonder how many multiples their team cost compared to ours?
I can see another one of these scorelines coming on Saturday
Unfortunately, I think we have to get used to a league that's a bit more like most foreign leagues. We missed the boat for various reasons and now we need to get used to the fact that villa are unlikely to win anything of significance ever again (unless we get bought out by a multi-billionaire, not just a billionaire).
We were bought by a multi-billionaire who's now just a billionaire.
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As soon as I saw the teams on twitter I had a bet on spurs - easy money.
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I have been to VP loads of times over the last 30 odd years and we have lost. Better Villa teams, better visiting teams, it doesn't feel any different. I am pissed off.
However, this will get better and there have been times like the season before last when I didn't think that would happen.
Still stunned that Helenius did not get a penalty, though.
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(https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1374289_714835125210715_139504976_n.jpg)
Just incredible how he wasn't penalised for that. Pathetic.
Simply stunning. The ref must have looked at Helenius and had to have wondered why the fuck are your shorts down by your ankles? And how about the assistant ref? What was he doing? Like I said, I'm not so naive suggest they wouldn't still have won tonight, it would have been a bit more of a contest. And you wonder why so many players go down so easily in the box. Joke.
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Well that was depressing. Loads of people who normally sit by me didn't go tonight as they weren't prepared to pay £20 to watch the reserves get shown up by sodding Spurs.
They should have had a man sent off for retaliation/raising his arms - didn't even get a yellow card. And how can a defender have his shorts dragged down to his ankles and it's not a penalty? Other than that it was all pretty much pants, epitomised by the way we gave them the ball for the third and fourth goals. The reality is we have fallen way behind Spurs and too many of our players simply aren't good enough.
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Embarrassing Humiliating performance. Thought as much when Lambert suggested he'd pick a virtual reserve side and our reserves simply aren't good enough. Spurs had the preverbial cigar out for most of the game apart from the last 10 minutes perhaps.
Starting to get seriously worried for our fate this season as I don't think Lambert as improved this squad.
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Very, very poor.
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Wasn't expecting that, that just shows you the difference in squad depth that we need.
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I'm not as worried about the regular first team as I am about the lack of quality to cover the first XI. At full strength we'll be fine. Beyond that, it's thin.
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We couldn't half do with Sandro in the middle of the park. Strong, physical, moves the ball around. Ran the game and can't get near their first team.
We make it so easy for teams to get into a rhythm at home. We need to get in their faces and play higher up the pitch. Every team comes to VP and is able to take the initiative. Lambert needs to find a new way if playing at home, and quickly.
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The first goal had been coming for a while.
Never seen a more obvious penalty - how the f**k does he expalin that to the assessor?
The second goal was completely shit marking - how can any team leave the near post so open from a corner?
We gave them the last two from pure shitty poor play/wayward passing.
I'm depressed by the whole thing but not surprised at the result.
Disappointed at the lack of application by a fair few players tonight who should have been making the most of the opportunity to impress.
And didn't seem bothered.
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Whats up with Lowton by the way? Been spending his new contract money on pies?
Bennett looked decent I thought.
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Sandro as well as one or two others dwarfed most of our players. He looked massive put there next to Bacuna and KEA. Only Sylla was able to compete. Man City won't be any different. Toure could run riot against our lot.
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I thought this was a joke when I first saw the still image.
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"Marc Albrigton was excellent"
Ha! That's just topped it off. I laughed then read it again in disbelief. What is Lambert on?!?!
To comment on the effort of the team being great as well is a fucking joke, did he not watch the first half???
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At least Albrighton tried and looked like he could be bothered. Shame about the rest of them.
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I wouldn't go as far as excellent but Alby was very good. One of the only players to do anything or look like he gave a shit.
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So glad I came back. Fucking dire. Only players worth anything tonight were Sylla and Steer.
I disagree, I thought they were crap too.
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On the plus side, I left a few minutes early so as far as i'm concerned we only lost 2-0.
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Hey come on, when they return next month they will be so confident after this game they will be
There for the taking. Benteke Hat Trick, send them home with their tale between their legs
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Tickets £32
Fuel £25
Parking £5
Programme £3
Various ancillary items £8
So £73 spunked for that shite, fucking disgusted
No effort at All
32 quid for a Carling cup game really? I thought 20 quid was top price tonight?
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Perhaps he paid for more than one ticket?
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Tickets £32
Fuel £25
Parking £5
Programme £3
Various ancillary items £8
So £73 spunked for that shite, fucking disgusted
No effort at All
32 quid for a Carling cup game really? I thought 20 quid was top price tonight?
2 tickets and booking fee i'm assuming.
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I'm struggling to come up with any positives from tonight. In fact I can't. Desperate all over the pitch.
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At least Albrighton tried and looked like he could be bothered. Shame about the rest of them.
I wouldn't go as far as excellent but Alby was very good. One of the only players to do anything or look like he gave a shit.
You scare me.
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Worst game i've ever been to for some time. I'll be exchanging my tickets for Saturday as i have better things to do.
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Sick of watching this shite and reading excuse after excuse for lambert and the players. That was woefully shite. We have not improved over the summer , I'd argue we're going backwards. The likes of Lowton and Westwood look a shadow of their former selves and Weimann now he's got his contract is on easy street. Now Benteke out for 2 months.
Worried , very very worried.
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Can't say I'm surprised with the result tonight.
It's all gone very MON which has been on the cards these last few weeks.
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Hey come on, when they return next month they will be so confident after this game they will be
There for the taking. Benteke Hat Trick, send them home with their tale between their legs
Might be difficult if Benteke is out for the next 4 to 6 weeks!! Too many poor players at Villa. Lambert gets an easy ride because he picks a team full of kids and Villa fans rarely fail to back a team full of kids. Our home record as a disgrace.
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0-4 What the fuck.
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At least Albrighton tried and looked like he could be bothered. Shame about the rest of them.
Tried yes, but also tried my patience at times. Some of his play is shocking. By his standards he was probably excellent. By any other player he was as bad as the rest.
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Worrying thing is 0-4 without spurs breaking sweat. Won in gear 2.
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Just got in. Lacklustre, naive and impotent. I feel quite mugged off.
Less of this kind of thing please. I know there's a fair few out but I cannot stomach watching that shower of ****** from North London taking the piss at Villa Park again.
Fuck it, I'm off to watch Captain Kronos: Vampire Hunter and have a whiskey.
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At least Albrighton tried and looked like he could be bothered. Shame about the rest of them.
Tried yes, but also tried my patience at times. Some of his play is shocking. By his standards he was probably excellent. By any other player he was as bad as the rest.
People see one through ball or a run in the 90+ minutes and think he was top notch. All round he was as poor as everyone else who stepped on to that pitch. The difference in class is light years in comparison...
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What did we learn tonight?
Spurs squad is light years ahead of ours, not surprising when they've just spent £120m.
We cannot compete unless we are at or near to full strength.
Plus points - Baccuna looks a really useful player, with a bit of pace also.
Sylla same as Baccuna without the pace.
Tonev needs time to get to grips with the pace / power of this league, has ability but will not see the best from him for a while yet. Also he managed to get a shot on target.
Hellnius, looks really skillful & can pick a pass but needs to be physically stronger & lacks pace. How on earth the ref / assistant ref failed to give a penalty is astounding but in reality it wouldn't have changed the result.
I'm struggling to think what alternative options could Lambert have taken given the injuries we currently have?
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Lambert's had enough time and money and is totally shite end of. Apart from Benteke and possibly Okore all the other signings are also ran's. Our home form is beyond awful and the entire management team are tactically inept. God knows what went on with him and Delia in the bake off but only one of them has got a soggy bottom and it isn't her. Complete gash. Could be looking at Chavski type obliteration against City. Lambert please do one.
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I think we are in big trouble quite honestly
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Lambert's had enough time and money and is totally shite end of. Apart from Benteke and possibly Okore all the other signings are also ran's. Our home form is beyond awful and the entire management team are tactically inept. God knows what went on with him and Delia in the bake off but only one of them has got a soggy bottom and it isn't her. Complete gash. Could be looking at Chavski type obliteration against City. Lambert please do one.
Who would you have instead?
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(https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1374289_714835125210715_139504976_n.jpg)
Sorry guys, this was at 1-0!! They may well have gone on and done us 4-1 or still 4-0 but this was a game changing decision and not even borderline! I have never seen anything like this in 40 years down the Villa. I have seen plenty of slight 'tugs' on shirts given as penalties but the defender clearly has a grip on the shorts here in view of both the linesman and referee.
I m not going to try and cover up our frailties tonight, but this is genuinely a poor call and so clear too. Who knows what might have happened if we had been rightly given a penalty and scored??
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That was largely, all graft and no craft - the midfield 3 were clueless - KEA was chasing chickens, Sylla was slow and off pace & Bacuna is never a centre mid if he cannot get his head up and find a pass...Tonev is at best a 15 mins impact sub at the moment. Finally realised why they call him Concrete Ron, it's the boots he wears.
Albrighton did well, Baker was willing and showed decent composure, Bennett grew into the game, Helenius showed some nice touches, Kozak was isolated, Steer made some good stops.
Spurs had 5 or 6 players out there tonight who were capable of playing the incisive pass to open up our leaden defence, we had one option in Albrighton.
Not having any centre halves with any pace for next 9 months is gonna be an issue IMHO. In fact the lack of pace through the whole side when Gabby is out is a concern.
As you can tell I really enjoyed that :-( if McLeish had thrown in the towel like we did tonight he'd have been slaughtered
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I'm getting over the heavy defeat quick just gutted i was nearly 10,000 out for my GTC prediction. We were ridiculously shit and deserved to lose, nothing more to say really.
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Unmitigated shit to pile on top of the unmitigated shit deposited during the last home performance. We seem to be building a prodigious pile of dung at Villa Park, and this at least may stop the opposition from waltzing through our defence unhindered.
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Should it also have been a red card?
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Should it also have been a red card?
Yes
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Just back in.
Well it seems Spurs squad is a tad better than ours.
We set up to contain them and did so for 35 minutes. Kozak very isolated. I thought it said everything about our approach that at one nil down we decide to take him off ready for Saturday.
It was a miss-match side that played like one. No purpose or focus in attack, sloppy passing and movement, poor concentration at the back and some sloppy keeping. Very poor all in all.
I have to say, Spurs are easily the best team we have played so far this season.
We cannot afford to be without so many first choice picks (i.e. the entire frontline) against quality like that.
I have also never seen a player debagged before and it appears neither had the referee. Stonewall penalty.
This time last year we were getting very wet in rainy Manchester. Mind you if we had known what was to come, we would have left it at one nil. I loathe home games in the cup. They're invariably gash.
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So many average players in our squad it's no wonder why we lose so many games. Some of them aren't fit to wear the claret and blue, yet they try and fool us into thinking there's some kind of genius plan at work. Sorry but I just don't buy it. This club is in decline thanks to Lerner trying to run us on a relative shoe string.
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Should it also have been a red card?
Indeed, last man etc.....
Game changing.
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So, we're now the English equivalent of the Cleveland Browns.
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So, we're now the English equivalent of the Cleveland Browns.
Because we lost a League Cup third round tie?
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So, we're now the English equivalent of the Cleveland Browns.
Well he seems to have weaved the same kind of black magic he did at Cleveland.
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So, we're now the English equivalent of the Cleveland Browns.
Because we lost a League Cup third round tie?
In isolation you would have a point, but we've had too many of these type of performances since Lambert took over.
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So, we're now the English equivalent of the Cleveland Browns.
Because we lost a League Cup third round tie?
You misunderstand. I think I should have put a question mark at the end of my post instead of the full stop.
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Olaf, cannot quote your post. (Weird stuff on site)
But it is not that bad, tonight.
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So, we're now the English equivalent of the Cleveland Browns.
Because we lost a League Cup third round tie?
In isolation you would have a point, but we've had too many of these type of performances since Lambert took over.
We also had a lot of them under every other manager, including worse cup results than tonight which have been forgotten.
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Let's not make excuses about injuries.
Let's not make excuses about squad strength.
Let's not make excuses about how much spurs have spent.
Let's look at what our manager did tonight. He elected to not compete in a cup tie by selecting an under strength team. He surrendered the match on behalf of Aston Villa football club. Maybe tonight is not as bad as Moscow but it is a damn sight worse than what Houllier did at manciti. Before tonight Paul Lambert had my unconditional support but no more. He has not only let down the hard working paying supporters but also rubbished the name of Aston Villa. Mr Lambert I no longer trust you however I have full belief in Aston Villa Football Club.
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I almost went to that and spent more than our transfer budget in, projecting Lerner's budget spiral, 2015. Yes, about 50 quid. Close escape.
That made me laugh!
Very annoyed. We were awful. Something needs to change when we play at home or we'll keep getting beat easily like that.
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So, we're now the English equivalent of the Cleveland Browns.
Because we lost a League Cup third round tie?
You misunderstand. I think I should have put a question mark at the end of my post instead of the full stop.
You've broken it haven 't you?
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Should it also have been a red card?
Penalty.
Red Card.
And the guy who lashed out at Lowton because he was tackled fairly and lost the ball wasn't even spoken to.
Inconsistency in refereeing?
This was the blooper video all in one game!
I'm embarrassed that the ref's name is Moss!
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Let's not make excuses about injuries.
Let's not make excuses about squad strength.
Let's not make excuses about how much spurs have spent.
Let's look at what our manager did tonight. He elected to not compete in a cup tie by selecting an under strength team. He surrendered the match on behalf of Aston Villa football club. Maybe tonight is not as bad as Moscow but it is a damn sight worse than what Houllier did at manciti. Before tonight Paul Lambert had my unconditional support but no more. He has not only let down the hard working paying supporters but also rubbished the name of Aston Villa. Mr Lambert I no longer trust you however I have full belief in Aston Villa Football Club.
Did you still support O'Neill when he put out a second-string team and they lost to Leicester and QPR?
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So, we're now the English equivalent of the Cleveland Browns.
Because we lost a League Cup third round tie?
In isolation you would have a point, but we've had too many of these type of performances since Lambert took over.
We also had a lot of them under every other manager, including worse cup results than tonight which have been forgotten.
You're right we have, but Lambert has provided us with some quite humiliating results in his short time at Villa.
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I knew there would be this kind of mellowdrama.
Shock horror Spurs stiffs are comfortably better than ours.
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So, we're now the English equivalent of the Cleveland Browns.
Because we lost a League Cup third round tie?
In isolation you would have a point, but we've had too many of these type of performances since Lambert took over.
We also had a lot of them under every other manager, including worse cup results than tonight which have been forgotten.
You're right we have, but Lambert has provided us with some quite humiliating results in his short time at Villa.
Would you get rid of him now then?
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Let's not make excuses about injuries.
Let's not make excuses about squad strength.
Let's not make excuses about how much spurs have spent.
Let's look at what our manager did tonight. He elected to not compete in a cup tie by selecting an under strength team. He surrendered the match on behalf of Aston Villa football club. Maybe tonight is not as bad as Moscow but it is a damn sight worse than what Houllier did at manciti. Before tonight Paul Lambert had my unconditional support but no more. He has not only let down the hard working paying supporters but also rubbished the name of Aston Villa. Mr Lambert I no longer trust you however I have full belief in Aston Villa Football Club.
See reply 179
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Did you still support O'Neill when he put out a second-string team and they lost to Leicester and QPR?
I hate it when our managers do not take the cups seriously. So no I did not support O'Neill.
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I knew there would be this kind of mellowdrama.
Shock horror Spurs stiffs are comfortably better than ours.
There was no need to play our stiffs tonight .
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Christ, if its like this tonight I can't wait for Saturday :S
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See reply 179
Yes I saw that and believe me it was bad at VP tonight. I don't care if we get beat 5/6 to nil as long as we set out to compete. Tonight Lambert opted out.
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Did you still support O'Neill when he put out a second-string team and they lost to Leicester and QPR?
I hate it when our managers do not take the cups seriously. So no I did not support O'Neill.
To the same extent as you've just said?
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I dont see how people can get so worked up. It doesn't even feel like a proper game.
Mish mash side, an almost half empty ground, no atmosphere, an almost eventless game played out at speeds almost training level at times, with no season ticket holders around you. Ergh. Home cup games are wankety wank.
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I knew there would be this kind of mellowdrama.
Shock horror Spurs stiffs are comfortably better than ours.
There was no need to play our stiffs tonight .
Who else was there?!
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Should it also have been a red card?
Penalty.
Red Card.
And the guy who lashed out at Lowton because he was tackled fairly and lost the ball wasn't even spoken to.
Inconsistency in refereeing?
This was the blooper video all in one game!
I'm embarrassed that the ref's name is Moss!
you know what? You are dead right!
I wasn't going to mention the officials again but................
I got told to 'grow up' tonight when I had a go at the 4th official who popped into the Spurs dug out, and stayed there, with his little board, while they made a decision about who and when to make a substitution. He was quite happily having a chat with all of their subs and management
Again a frustration, and may not have directly influenced the outcome, but not surprising that supporters get fed up of officials> and their antics
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So, we're now the English equivalent of the Cleveland Browns.
Because we lost a League Cup third round tie?
In isolation you would have a point, but we've had too many of these type of performances since Lambert took over.
We also had a lot of them under every other manager, including worse cup results than tonight which have been forgotten.
You're right we have, but Lambert has provided us with some quite humiliating results in his short time at Villa.
Would you get rid of him now then?
No, I'd give him till Christmas. If we're struggling at the foot of the table he should be given the boot. I think he's damn lucky to be still in the job if I'm honest. Managers have been sacked for a lot less than the shit he's put us through. I certainly accept that he's had his hands tied behind his back by Lerner's lack of cash, but what little money he's been given (especially this summer) I don't think he's spent well. I'm flabbergasted that he only thought it wise to buy one centre back (a 20 year old as well) when we had the worst defence in recent memory.
Surely you're not happy seeing us being thumped like this so often, especially at home?
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I knew there would be this kind of mellowdrama.
Shock horror Spurs stiffs are comfortably better than ours.
Not knocking you at all Ads, but it wasn't Spurs stiffs was it?
Paulinho? Sandro? Defoe?
They put out a team to win the game, probably knowing our injury problems.
The thing that bugs me is that we were pretty clueless and wasteful with the ball (my main gripe!) in every area of the game- if Bradford F***ing City can organise a team to test us, surely the Villa can make things a bit tough for Spuds at VP?
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Did you still support O'Neill when he put out a second-string team and they lost to Leicester and QPR?
I hate it when our managers do not take the cups seriously. So no I did not support O'Neill.
You do know that Benteke, Delph, Gabby and Okore are all injured don't you? The only players you can really say were 'rested' were Weimann and Guzan and they would not have made much difference to that result.
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Christ, if its like this tonight I can't wait for Saturday :S
Saturday is just another league game. Tonight we are out of the cup without even a whimper.
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This season we have been turned over once.
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So, we're now the English equivalent of the Cleveland Browns.
Because we lost a League Cup third round tie?
In isolation you would have a point, but we've had too many of these type of performances since Lambert took over.
We also had a lot of them under every other manager, including worse cup results than tonight which have been forgotten.
You're right we have, but Lambert has provided us with some quite humiliating results in his short time at Villa.
Would you get rid of him now then?
No, I'd give him till Christmas. If we're struggling at the foot of the table he should be given the boot. I think he's damn lucky to be still in the job if I'm honest. Managers have been sacked for a lot less than the shit he's put us through. I certainly accept that he's had his hands tied behind his back by Lerner's lack of cash, but what little money he's been given (especially this summer) I don't think he's spent well. I'm flabbergasted that he only thought it wise to buy one centre back (a 20 year old as well) when we had the worst defence in recent memory.
Surely you're not happy seeing us being thumped like this so often, especially at home?
I'm pissed off about tonight, but it has to be accepted that this competition doesn't really matter - the crowd alone is proof of that. As for being thumped like it so often, when was the last time we lost by more than one goal? As for "Lerner's lack of cash," perhaps you'd care to list how many managers have spent more in the last two summers.
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Christ, if its like this tonight I can't wait for Saturday :S
Saturday is just another league game. Tonight we are out of the cup without even a whimper.
It was going to happen especially when you take out our best players.
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Christ, if its like this tonight I can't wait for Saturday :S
Saturday is just another league game. Tonight we are out of the cup without even a whimper.
You were there, I wasn't, I have to acknowledge your first hand experience of this match.
I did hear on the radio that Villa players put up a fight. And there was the dodgy penalty non decision. They were keeping possession and attacking, apparently. I can't ask for more from the players we have. They still have to develop and get better. And, they will!
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You're right, to say it was Spurs stiffs is over egging it. They were packed with quality and I am actually worried they may seriosuly challenge for the title given how bobbins everybody else seems to be.
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If this result was against Man.Utd for example would people be kicking up such a fuss. I don't think they would because they see the word Man.Utd so expect it but I think Spurs have pushed on in such a way that we have to really fear them and what they could do this year and years to come. Top 3 definitely, title challengers maybe...we've thought relegation for 2 odd seasons, the difference is massive.
I expected Spurs to win comfortably, I expect Man.City to knock 4 maybe more past us...
People, lower your expectations seriously.
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There was bags of effort. Just no quality.
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And the more I think about it, Im struggling to think of anything as bad under McLeish as I've witnessed at home already this season.
The football was dull, but the organization was there. At least the players gave the impression they were being coached and working to a plan.
While I'm not saying for one minute I want to go back to that, you've got to start questioning Paul Lamberts credentials. What has he done to address the glaringly obvious failings of last season?
Is the Emperor as well dressed as we thought he was?
I like Lambert, and want him to do well, but I'm a bit concerned with our progress.
Our defence was shockingly bad last season. I mean, let's be honest, it was absolutely atrocious. You'd think that any sensible manager's first priority would have been to bring in some better quality defenders and try to rebalance the midfield to give us a proper screen in front of the back four. Now of course, he's been very unlucky with the Okore injury, and the young lad does look like he's going to be a really good signing. But he didn't bring in any proven quality at all, no experience in either defence or midfield. He's persisting with a midfield set-up that involves three central players charging around pressing the opposition, with nobody given specific instructions to sit and move laterally to mop up attacks and calm the play like Petrov did, and nobody specifically given licence to roam in front of the front men.
To me, he hasn't addressed the fundamental problems we had last year, he's just signed like for like players to expand the squad, not improve it. So logically, we can expect more of the same, until the existing players become better and more experienced themselves. Which is going to take a long time, and may not happen at all in some cases, especially if they have nobody better than them at the club to learn from.
Absolutely spot on.
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Christ, if its like this tonight I can't wait for Saturday :S
Saturday is just another league game. Tonight we are out of the cup without even a whimper.
You were there, I wasn't, I have to acknowledge your first hand experience of this match.
I did hear on the radio that Villa players put up a fight. And there was the dodgy penalty non decision. They were keeping possession and attacking, apparently. I can't ask for more from the players we have. They still have to develop and get better. And, they will!
Effort, running, putting your foot in is the bare minimum you expect from any professional footballer, and that they did. It's quality and quite a bit of it they lack and I mean quality in terms of awareness, composure, positioning, etc. I see that so I don't expect too much.
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So, we're now the English equivalent of the Cleveland Browns.
Because we lost a League Cup third round tie?
In isolation you would have a point, but we've had too many of these type of performances since Lambert took over.
We also had a lot of them under every other manager, including worse cup results than tonight which have been forgotten.
You're right we have, but Lambert has provided us with some quite humiliating results in his short time at Villa.
Would you get rid of him now then?
No, I'd give him till Christmas. If we're struggling at the foot of the table he should be given the boot. I think he's damn lucky to be still in the job if I'm honest. Managers have been sacked for a lot less than the shit he's put us through. I certainly accept that he's had his hands tied behind his back by Lerner's lack of cash, but what little money he's been given (especially this summer) I don't think he's spent well. I'm flabbergasted that he only thought it wise to buy one centre back (a 20 year old as well) when we had the worst defence in recent memory.
Surely you're not happy seeing us being thumped like this so often, especially at home?
I'm pissed off about tonight, but it has to be accepted that this competition doesn't really matter - the crowd alone is proof of that. As for being thumped like it so often, when was the last time we lost by more than one goal? As for "Lerner's lack of cash," perhaps you'd care to list how many managers have spent more in the last two summers.
Losing is losing TSM liked to keep it tight at 1-0 down.Paul Lambert needs to start playing with pace from the start.And has I said in the match thread the team has all the shape of the Blob.We needed Quality in the summer and we didn't get it.Randy cant be blamed for that unless he was unwilling to pay the wages to get the quality players in.
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So, we're now the English equivalent of the Cleveland Browns.
Because we lost a League Cup third round tie?
In isolation you would have a point, but we've had too many of these type of performances since Lambert took over.
We also had a lot of them under every other manager, including worse cup results than tonight which have been forgotten.
You're right we have, but Lambert has provided us with some quite humiliating results in his short time at Villa.
Would you get rid of him now then?
No, I'd give him till Christmas. If we're struggling at the foot of the table he should be given the boot. I think he's damn lucky to be still in the job if I'm honest. Managers have been sacked for a lot less than the shit he's put us through. I certainly accept that he's had his hands tied behind his back by Lerner's lack of cash, but what little money he's been given (especially this summer) I don't think he's spent well. I'm flabbergasted that he only thought it wise to buy one centre back (a 20 year old as well) when we had the worst defence in recent memory.
Surely you're not happy seeing us being thumped like this so often, especially at home?
I'm pissed off about tonight, but it has to be accepted that this competition doesn't really matter - the crowd alone is proof of that. As for being thumped like it so often, when was the last time we lost by more than one goal? As for "Lerner's lack of cash," perhaps you'd care to list how many managers have spent more in the last two summers.
I'm not going to list the humiliating results Lambert's inflicted on us since he took over, but as you well know there have been far too many, and if you honestly think Lambert's had enough cash to spend to improve such an average squad then we'll have to agree to disagree on that subject. Our squad wasn't good enough before Lerner slightly opened his wallet in the summer, and it still wasn't good enough when he slammed it shut.
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I really wish I'd have put a question mark instead of a full-stop.
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How much money do you think an owner should donate to his club every summer then?
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How much money do you think an owner should donate to his club every summer then?
Every penny you have left after all your outgoings
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When the manager intimates it isn't as important as the Citeh game, then you can't expect too much really.
That will be even worse than 0-4.
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How much money do you think an owner should donate to his club every summer then?
He could speculate to accumulate. We didn't mind telling Doug Ellis to do the same year in year out.
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Knowing Villa, we'll probably draw or win.
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How much money do you think an owner should donate to his club every summer then?
He isn't donating anything,investing yes.But just like his other ventures it seems to be going tits up.
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When the manager intimates it isn't as important as the Citeh game, then you can't expect too much really.
That will be even worse than 0-4.
I expect that especially at home
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Was this referee the same "Moss" who gave the soft penalty in the ManU Palace game and sent the Palace player off?
Surely pulling a players shorts down is a worse offence?
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Christ, if its like this tonight I can't wait for Saturday :S
Saturday is just another league game. Tonight we are out of the cup without even a whimper.
You were there, I wasn't, I have to acknowledge your first hand experience of this match.
I did hear on the radio that Villa players put up a fight. And there was the dodgy penalty non decision. They were keeping possession and attacking, apparently. I can't ask for more from the players we have. They still have to develop and get better. And, they will!
Effort, running, putting your foot in is the bare minimum you expect from any professional footballer, and that they did. It's quality and quite a bit of it they lack and I mean quality in terms of awareness, composure, positioning, etc. I see that so I don't expect too much.
well I would. Seriously, a PL team showed nothing?
That is unacceptable and I think you are wrong, going by what I heard.
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I'll stick the Money City pre-match thread on later this morning.
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Christ, if its like this tonight I can't wait for Saturday :S
Saturday is just another league game. Tonight we are out of the cup without even a whimper.
You were there, I wasn't, I have to acknowledge your first hand experience of this match.
I did hear on the radio that Villa players put up a fight. And there was the dodgy penalty non decision. They were keeping possession and attacking, apparently. I can't ask for more from the players we have. They still have to develop and get better. And, they will!
Effort, running, putting your foot in is the bare minimum you expect from any professional footballer, and that they did. It's quality and quite a bit of it they lack and I mean quality in terms of awareness, composure, positioning, etc. I see that so I don't expect too much.
well I would. Seriously, a PL team showed nothing?
That is unacceptable and I think you are wrong, going by what I heard.
They didn't show a lot.
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How much money do you think an owner should donate to his club every summer then?
He could speculate to accumulate. We didn't mind telling Doug Ellis to do the same year in year out.
So now you're comparing a man who's already speculated over a quarter of a billion pounds with one who never put a penny into the club and took around £40 million out.
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How much money do you think an owner should donate to his club every summer then?
He isn't donating anything,investing yes.But just like his other ventures it seems to be going tits up.
I can just imagine the howls of outrage if he ever got any sort of return from this 'investment'.
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How much money do you think an owner should donate to his club every summer then?
He could speculate to accumulate. We didn't mind telling Doug Ellis to do the same year in year out.
So now you're comparing a man who's already speculated over a quarter of a billion pounds with one who never put a penny into the club and took around £40 million out.
Am I right in thinking a lot of the money Lerner has put in the club are actually loans? As for the rest, well it doesn't look like he's done a very good job. In fact it's been appalling.
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On the one hand, Lambert's plan sounds great. If you notice, every time we go a few weeks without a game, confidence builds up because there's just so much there to believe in - club was rotten, reinvesting in youth, sell-on values, young and hungry, attacking football etc
Then you watch another insipid performance like that and you wonder whether you just want to believe in it, you really do but it's all bullshit. At the end of the day there have been some peculiar decisions made by PL, not significantly strengthening the defence and seemingly turning out teams at VP with no game plan whatsoever.
I'm desperate to believe in the Lambert plan, I don't want to consider the alternatives but I'm very concerned about our lack of quality, especially at home and perhaps moreso, I'm horrified by some fans' acceptance of our new place in the world, as the bottom feeders of the Premier League. Fuck you most of all.
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How much money do you think an owner should donate to his club every summer then?
He could speculate to accumulate. We didn't mind telling Doug Ellis to do the same year in year out.
So now you're comparing a man who's already speculated over a quarter of a billion pounds with one who never put a penny into the club and took around £40 million out.
A quarter of a billion and probably on the pitch no better.We have one day out at Wembley to show for it.Not knocking how much he has spent,more what he has done with it.
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How much money do you think an owner should donate to his club every summer then?
He could speculate to accumulate. We didn't mind telling Doug Ellis to do the same year in year out.
So now you're comparing a man who's already speculated over a quarter of a billion pounds with one who never put a penny into the club and took around £40 million out.
Am I right in thinking a lot of the money Lerner has put in the club are actually loans? As for the rest, well it doesn't look like he's done a very good job. In fact it's been appalling.
Loans which he has a) turned into shares or b) declined interest payments on.
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How much money do you think an owner should donate to his club every summer then?
He could speculate to accumulate. We didn't mind telling Doug Ellis to do the same year in year out.
So now you're comparing a man who's already speculated over a quarter of a billion pounds with one who never put a penny into the club and took around £40 million out.
A quarter of a billion and probably on the pitch no better.We have one day out at Wembley to show for it.Not knocking how much he has spent,more what he has done with it.
Ain't that the truth! To me he just seems incompetent.
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How much money do you think an owner should donate to his club every summer then?
He isn't donating anything,investing yes.But just like his other ventures it seems to be going tits up.
I can just imagine the howls of outrage if he ever got any sort of return from this 'investment'.
Not from me,he didn't buy us because he loved us,it was an investment.I would love it if got any money back because then we would be a success.
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On the one hand, Lambert's plan sounds great. If you notice, every time we go a few weeks without a game, confidence builds up because there's just so much there to believe in - club was rotten, reinvesting in youth, sell-on values, young and hungry, attacking football etc
Then you watch another insipid performance like that and you wonder whether you just want to believe in it, you really do but it's all bullshit. At the end of the day there have been some peculiar decisions made by PL, not significantly strengthening the defence and seemingly turning out teams at VP with no game plan whatsoever.
I'm desperate to believe in the Lambert plan, I don't want to consider the alternatives but I'm very concerned about our lack of quality, especially at home and perhaps moreso, I'm horrified by some fans' acceptance of our new place in the world, as the bottom feeders of the Premier League. Fuck you most of all.
Hear hear!
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Does anyone from the club read this? It would be nice to know an insiders, honest, view.
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I haven't read the entire thread but I've seen several people mention that Helenius looks promising. Really? I'm not trying to be negative but I haven't seen him do anything remotely useful since pre season, and i'd lump Tonev in with him. Albrighton gave it a go tonight, fear it might be a bit late for him here though.
Disappointing. I expected us to lose tonight, Spurs have improved their squad immensly, I just hoped to see something encouraging from someone. A shame to say I didn't.
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Big clubs consistently do bad because they have either
A. Shite manager
B. Shite chairman
C. Both
We are now in the category of big clubs that are consistently bad.
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How much money do you think an owner should donate to his club every summer then?
He could speculate to accumulate. We didn't mind telling Doug Ellis to do the same year in year out.
So now you're comparing a man who's already speculated over a quarter of a billion pounds with one who never put a penny into the club and took around £40 million out.
Did either of these men balance the books?
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I haven't read the entire thread but I've seen several people mention that Helenius looks promising. Really? I'm not trying to be negative but I haven't seen him do anything remotely useful since pre season, and i'd lump Tonev in with him. Albrighton gave it a go tonight, fear it might be a bit late for him here though.
Disappointing. I expected us to lose tonight, Spurs have improved their squad immensly, I just hoped to see something encouraging from someone. A shame to say I didn't.
I think that's fair enough, and yet... There were signs of, if not immediate quality, then at least the promise of it. Helenius clearly has not got used to not having 20 yards of space to play in however even by the end of this game he was showing signs of adapting. Tonev also showed some tenacity, a good engine and put in some good balls in the second half.
I think a big problem is if you put them into a team with a clear way of playing and a bit of confidence then they would develop faster but as individuals running aimlessly around the pitch and getting overrun everywhere, it's not as easy to see the promise.
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How much money do you think an owner should donate to his club every summer then?
He could speculate to accumulate. We didn't mind telling Doug Ellis to do the same year in year out.
So now you're comparing a man who's already speculated over a quarter of a billion pounds with one who never put a penny into the club and took around £40 million out.
Did either of these men balance the books?
One of them managed it. Then again, he did sell a European Cup-winning team to do so.
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Put the kids in, etc.
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Put the kids in, etc.
Sack the board, etc. bring back the old chants!
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I haven't read the entire thread but I've seen several people mention that Helenius looks promising. Really? I'm not trying to be negative but I haven't seen him do anything remotely useful since pre season, and i'd lump Tonev in with him. Albrighton gave it a go tonight, fear it might be a bit late for him here though.
Disappointing. I expected us to lose tonight, Spurs have improved their squad immensly, I just hoped to see something encouraging from someone. A shame to say I didn't.
I think that's fair enough, and yet... There were signs of, if not immediate quality, then at least the promise of it. Helenius clearly has not got used to not having 20 yards of space to play in however even by the end of this game he was showing signs of adapting. Tonev also showed some tenacity, a good engine and put in some good balls in the second half.
I think a big problem is if you put them into a team with a clear way of playing and a bit of confidence then they would develop faster but as individuals running aimlessly around the pitch and getting overrun everywhere, it's not as easy to see the promise.
I agree to an extent. It isn't like I'm hoping things don't work out, I hope they both come good. I just currently can't see that they add anything to the team. With any luck they'll develop into good PL players.
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Tickets £32
Fuel £25
Parking £5
Programme £3
Various ancillary items £8
So £73 spunked for that shite, fucking disgusted
No effort at All
32 quid for a Carling cup game really? I thought 20 quid was top price tonight?
2 tickets and booking fee i'm assuming.
I got a refund on the booking fee after 10 or so emails.
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What a load of shite, a piss poor, heartless, amateurish, lacklustre, inept, weak, structure less performance.
Again, defense left wanting, midfield running around at 100mph like headless chickens, achieving next to nothing, strikers with none of the ability of Tekkers.
We have taken a giant step backwards since the last 4 months of last season.
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I think people are very quick to forget that football today is not the same as 10 years ago. The difference in spend is not a few million here and there now, it is hundreds of millions of pounds. Spurs can afford it through massive ticket prices, London location and huge backers that are richer than Lerner. We can't. They put out a side tonight, their reserve side, that would probably be better than our first team all season. It is not being defeatest either, it is acknowledging that the playing field is so far tipped towards the money sides now, that those without have to plan differently.
Lambert is building. He has been in the job 15 months? If we are playing like this in 5 years I will be worried, but seriously, the reason Everton are in a good state for Martinez to build if because they gave Moyes 10 years despite finishing bottom 5 a couple of times. Swansea are an impressive side because they have stuck to a particular philosophy and approach over a long period of time.
Our next step is to spend say 30 million of the TV money on 3 players not 10. This will elevate the rest of the players and improve us no-end. At the moment we only have 3-4 class players and the rest are work men. We need more quality, but Lambert started pretty much from scratch and we need to give him 4-5 years IMO to sort it.
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I think people are very quick to forget that football today is not the same as 10 years ago. The difference in spend is not a few million here and there now, it is hundreds of millions of pounds. Spurs can afford it through massive ticket prices, London location and huge backers that are richer than Lerner. We can't. They put out a side tonight, their reserve side, that would probably be better than our first team all season. It is not being defeatest either, it is acknowledging that the playing field is so far tipped towards the money sides now, that those without have to plan differently.
Lambert is building. He has been in the job 15 months? If we are playing like this in 5 years I will be worried, but seriously, the reason Everton are in a good state for Martinez to build if because they gave Moyes 10 years despite finishing bottom 5 a couple of times. Swansea are an impressive side because they have stuck to a particular philosophy and approach over a long period of time.
Our next step is to spend say 30 million of the TV money on 3 players not 10. This will elevate the rest of the players and improve us no-end. At the moment we only have 3-4 class players and the rest are work men. We need more quality, but Lambert started pretty much from scratch and we need to give him 4-5 years IMO to sort it.
I couldn't put up with another season of this shit let alone 5 years of it. It's naive to think he'd get that amount of time in the job with these sort of results.
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I totally disagree. With the funds available to buy essentially a whole squad, until he has had time to mould it and get in some better quality than he has chance to so far, it is impossible to know what it could be like. We have flashes of playing really well. Okore looked a bloody good player. We are in a similar boat to last season I would readily admit, but what the feck would be the point of starting again with someone else. I would bet in 3 years time we look a very decent side. Competing against sides worth 150 million plus - unless we are taken over that just will not happen. Even Wenger is having to spend 40 million on a player to stay with the top group. We played with 8-9 players out tonight. And to be honest, I am totally and utterly nonplussed about losing. Could not give a shit.
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I think people are very quick to forget that football today is not the same as 10 years ago. The difference in spend is not a few million here and there now, it is hundreds of millions of pounds. Spurs can afford it through massive ticket prices, London location and huge backers that are richer than Lerner. We can't. They put out a side tonight, their reserve side, that would probably be better than our first team all season. It is not being defeatest either, it is acknowledging that the playing field is so far tipped towards the money sides now, that those without have to plan differently.
Lambert is building. He has been in the job 15 months? If we are playing like this in 5 years I will be worried, but seriously, the reason Everton are in a good state for Martinez to build if because they gave Moyes 10 years despite finishing bottom 5 a couple of times. Swansea are an impressive side because they have stuck to a particular philosophy and approach over a long period of time.
Our next step is to spend say 30 million of the TV money on 3 players not 10. This will elevate the rest of the players and improve us no-end. At the moment we only have 3-4 class players and the rest are work men. We need more quality, but Lambert started pretty much from scratch and we need to give him 4-5 years IMO to sort it.
I would like it to be faster! Agree with your scenario.
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They have a much better squad than us, fewer injuries to key players and even got the rub of the green. Results like this happen when games go like that. Even AVB said they got away with it on Helenius.
There's only one positive to take from this game, but it is a positive: if Albrighton can stay fit we might have a genuine winger to bring into the side should we need it.
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I think people are very quick to forget that football today is not the same as 10 years ago. The difference in spend is not a few million here and there now, it is hundreds of millions of pounds. Spurs can afford it through massive ticket prices, London location and huge backers that are richer than Lerner. We can't. They put out a side tonight, their reserve side, that would probably be better than our first team all season. It is not being defeatest either, it is acknowledging that the playing field is so far tipped towards the money sides now, that those without have to plan differently.
Lambert is building. He has been in the job 15 months? If we are playing like this in 5 years I will be worried, but seriously, the reason Everton are in a good state for Martinez to build if because they gave Moyes 10 years despite finishing bottom 5 a couple of times. Swansea are an impressive side because they have stuck to a particular philosophy and approach over a long period of time.
Our next step is to spend say 30 million of the TV money on 3 players not 10. This will elevate the rest of the players and improve us no-end. At the moment we only have 3-4 class players and the rest are work men. We need more quality, but Lambert started pretty much from scratch and we need to give him 4-5 years IMO to sort it.
Interesting point of view, Ozz but in 5 years time where will football be? Will we forever be playing catch up? My concern is we're not even getting the basics right and Lambert has bought into the headlines about us being a counter attacking team. MON did the same thing and in 5 years only managed to build a team on quicksand. The last three games (Liverpool, Rotherham and Norwich), despite winning two have shown we really lack a tactical plan. Tonight just confirmed it.
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Being pragmatic.. We were shit.
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Shocking scoreline but they have a far stronger squad than us. Kozak being taken off at half time is worrying, injured or crap? Pity Nzogbia wasn't fit as it might be time to give Gabby or Weimann a chance down the middle.
The absence of probably our two best players, Okore and Benteke for the next while is worrying. Probably no harm for Clark's confidence that he wasn't playing tonight.
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Kozak being taken off at half time is worrying, injured or crap?
Lambert indicated post match he had just given him some extra match minutes. Presumably he took him off to make sure was fully rested for the weekend.
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shit cup (Obviously only say that when we are out)
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"Marc Albrigton was excellent"
Ha! That's just topped it off. I laughed then read it again in disbelief. What is Lambert on?!?!
To comment on the effort of the team being great as well is a fucking joke, did he not watch the first half???
He was our best player by a mile, he was far from outstanding but he offered more of a threat that the others put together.
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I feel really sad that people running our club and team have already priortised avoiding relegation above all else with 5 games gone. I feel really sad that teams can turn up at the great Aston Villa football club and be given a walk over. I can not and will not support a manager who will not field the strongest team available in a cup tie at Villa Park.
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Spurs have been run very well over the past decade.
We have been spectacularly mis-managed over the same period and it's why they are title challengers and we are relegation stragglers
The truth hurts but we should not be so far behind that lot. .
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A Villa side missing its key players loses to Spurs. Mutiny!
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The issue for me is the 'journeyman' make up of our B team. All good,solid championship/ lower Premier League level players. Adequate cover,individually only,for the first team.
Where are the young prospects though? I know one or two are on loan but it would have been good to see a 'potential' player on the pitch as well.
Spurs clearly have strength in depth to go for the two weaker competitions they are in, we obviously don't but I would have liked to have seen a glimpse of one of our supposedly good young players.
And if we're paying Given at least play him in these games.
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Well what happened to the pressing/closing down type of game that we were supposed to be about this season? In the first half Albrighton and Tonev never got anywhere near giving support to Kozak, he was left alone upfield while we played 5 across the half way line. They were playing as auxiliary full backs and never got forward to pressurise the spurs full backs.
That, together with Bacuna and Sylla also getting nowhere near the pace of the game in the first half meant KEA was left chasing shadows and trying to contain them himself, until he got a final warning from the ref.
Tonev, Sylla, Bacuna, Helenius, Bowery were completely off the pace of the game and need to learn how to play in the fast moving, physical game that is played in this country. At times they showed a bit of skill which maybe suggests that if they can adapt they might be decent players but until they do they will continually struggle.
Also I said last season that in the summer our squad should be put through a weights programme to make them physically bigger and stronger and last night showed that up even more. They were being outmuscled all over the park. Most of them need another stone of muscle to compete at this level.
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When do the Ashes start?
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Spurs have been run very well over the past decade.
We have been spectacularly mis-managed over the same period and it's why they are title challengers and we are relegation stragglers
The truth hurts but we should not be so far behind that lot. .
I could agree with about 30 excellent posts on this thread but none more so than this one
I listened to Dean Saunders last night on R5 rattle off the names of the team he played with in the that halycon period in the early 90s - and he could remember every single one - and reflected on how we are now a million miles away as a club from what we were then both in terms of personnel and, most sadly of all, status within the game (not all of which is entirely our own fault of course)
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(https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1374289_714835125210715_139504976_n.jpg)
Just incredible how he wasn't penalised for that. Pathetic.
It wasn't just a penalty
It wasn't just a penalty and a Red Card
It was a penalty, a Red Card and a place on the Sex Offenders register
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Thanks richard. I just feel we have been sinking for the past few years and nobody seems to care. If Spurs had a nightmare season you just know they would sort it out and make sure it didn't happen again.
We have had, two, three of them and we seem to be sleep-walking into another one. Do it often enough and eventually you are relegated.
As I said on the other thread, I just can't wait to see us reach 40 points. I still think we will be safe by March and should be able to clock up another eight nine points on that. But will that represent progress? I'm not sure. Keeping our world class striker should have given us a piggy-back to the top 8/9. Will be back to square one next summer?
What is Randy's ambition for the club? Is this yearly struggle and crap home form good enough for Aston Villa?
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No point in going into too much depth about last night.
Tonev had one run in the first half and two good minutes just before he was subbed, other than that he was (and has been all season) awful. No better than Grealish or Carruthers would be.
I thought that Helenius looked good, with some nice turns touches and layoffs. He could well have scored if he hadn't have been de-bagged.
Marky Marc did OK, with a couple of good crosses that none of the midfielders gambled on.
As always its the defence that worries me and I think that the main problem is Vlaar. He'd probably be OK alongside three experienced Premier League class defenders but he's no leader. Lowton's really gone backwards since last season and Bennett's, well..... he's Joe Bennett.
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I'm fully behind Lambert, we are where we are because of past mistakes. It's embarrassing how we've been bullied and ripped apart over the last two years but I'm confident,given a little more time we will be much more competitive.
I take heart from the end of last season, this pre-season (I know...but some of the football was sublime) and how we have played at the start of this season.
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Will anyone really be bothered after we lose our next 3 home games making it 5 in a row or will it be just more excuses along the lines of ''the project, building for the future, key players injured, who else could do any better, MON fucked us''
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Video of the de-bagging for those who still haven't seen it
http://deadspin.com/de-pantsing-is-soccers-most-effective-defensive-strate-1379996612
Perfectly safe for work because, according to the Referee, it didn't happen.
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A Villa side missing its key players loses to Spurs. Mutiny!
And a very, very good Spurs side at that.
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And if we're paying Given at least play him in these games.
What would be the point of that if Lambert sees Steer as his number 2?
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I didn't bother posting as soon as I got back from the game, thought it better to sleep on it and I'd be less pissed off. A few thoughts.
We were bad, but we weren't 4-0 bad.
Given the injuries and enforced abscences, theres not a lot Lambert could do about the squad selection, aside from maybe putting Weimann and Guzan in, but you've got to give the fringe players a chance some time. Speaking of fringe players, I thought Albrighton tried his hardest and was probably our best player, but admittedly thats not saying much.
Helenius, Kozak, Tonev, Bacuna etc have all come in from worse leagues and will need time to adjust. Ideally you'd only play one or two of them at a time to bed them in gradually. Play a whole squad of them when they're not up to speed and you'll struggle whoever you play, which brings me on to.....
Spurs. This wasn't exactly a Spurs B team - granted it wasn't the strongest side they could put out, but probably Sandro and certainly Paulhinho and Lamela plus a couple of others would walk into more or less any top 4 side. Very tough opposition.
The really concerning things are some of the same shortcomings coming back again. Not much of a plan for playing at home (although playing a good spuds side when you've got nearly a full XI of injuries to key players isnt the best time to shake things up). Movement off the ball lacking - Kozak was winning all the headers and keeping the ball relatively well when it got to him, but a lot of the time Tonev and Albrighton were nowhere to be seen for him to flick on to. At one point Tonev (who wasn't so trigger happy this time out) put a cross into the box, and depite having 3 strikers on the pitch there was nobody even in the area. Ball retention very poor.
All in all, very disappointing but given the difference in quality between the two sides last night a defeat was always likely. We'll finish comfortably mid-table, and Spurs will probably come close to winning the title (thats the difference between a well run club with shitloads of money and a badly run club thats one season in to a major rebuilding project).
UTV
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(https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1374289_714835125210715_139504976_n.jpg)
Just incredible how he wasn't penalised for that. Pathetic.
It wasn't just a penalty
It wasn't just a penalty and a Red Card
It was a penalty, a Red Card and a place on the Sex Offenders register
Unless your name is Paul Jewell, who found it hilarious and the penalty debate a mere distraction from the comedy of it. Presumably, when he was managing he would have laughed it off if it happened to his team.
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A Villa side missing its key players loses to Spurs. Mutiny!
And a very, very good Spurs side at that.
I'm surprsied by the reaction on here. Maybe it'll be different today once people have slept on it.
If we sell Benteke then we'll have the opportunity to "financially dope" the squad to have more strength on the bench. In the past 2 or 3 seasons Spurs have sold Modric and Bale and reinvested wisely, ending up with one of the country's strongest squads (for example I doubt there's much between that spurs side and their first XI).
This has come about because they've been well run with Levy and often a Director's of Football ensuring that there is continuity from one manager to the next. We've fundamentally failed on that front (and still have to an extent) but I'm not sure this result justifies aborting Lambert's mission in the way some are seemingly demanding.
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I think people are very quick to forget that football today is not the same as 10 years ago. The difference in spend is not a few million here and there now, it is hundreds of millions of pounds. Spurs can afford it through massive ticket prices, London location and huge backers that are richer than Lerner. We can't. They put out a side tonight, their reserve side, that would probably be better than our first team all season. It is not being defeatest either, it is acknowledging that the playing field is so far tipped towards the money sides now, that those without have to plan differently.
Lambert is building. He has been in the job 15 months? If we are playing like this in 5 years I will be worried, but seriously, the reason Everton are in a good state for Martinez to build if because they gave Moyes 10 years despite finishing bottom 5 a couple of times. Swansea are an impressive side because they have stuck to a particular philosophy and approach over a long period of time.
Our next step is to spend say 30 million of the TV money on 3 players not 10. This will elevate the rest of the players and improve us no-end. At the moment we only have 3-4 class players and the rest are work men. We need more quality, but Lambert started pretty much from scratch and we need to give him 4-5 years IMO to sort it.
Hear hear
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I feel really sad that people running our club and team have already priortised avoiding relegation above all else with 5 games gone. I feel really sad that teams can turn up at the great Aston Villa football club and be given a walk over. I can not and will not support a manager who will not field the strongest team available in a cup tie at Villa Park.
Ok, with the players that were carrying knocks and injured, what side would you have put out?
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I think people are very quick to forget that football today is not the same as 10 years ago. The difference in spend is not a few million here and there now, it is hundreds of millions of pounds. Spurs can afford it through massive ticket prices, London location and huge backers that are richer than Lerner. We can't. They put out a side tonight, their reserve side, that would probably be better than our first team all season. It is not being defeatest either, it is acknowledging that the playing field is so far tipped towards the money sides now, that those without have to plan differently.
Lambert is building. He has been in the job 15 months? If we are playing like this in 5 years I will be worried, but seriously, the reason Everton are in a good state for Martinez to build if because they gave Moyes 10 years despite finishing bottom 5 a couple of times. Swansea are an impressive side because they have stuck to a particular philosophy and approach over a long period of time.
Our next step is to spend say 30 million of the TV money on 3 players not 10. This will elevate the rest of the players and improve us no-end. At the moment we only have 3-4 class players and the rest are work men. We need more quality, but Lambert started pretty much from scratch and we need to give him 4-5 years IMO to sort it.
Hear hear
You're bang on with your assessment there Ozzjim.
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I was at the game and I can confirm we were thoroughly shite. League 2 standard fayre.
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If a defeat is 'always likely' like it was last night, then we as not bother going on Saturday!
We are quickly getting ourselves into the situation where we accept defeat too easily with reasons like, injuries, work in progress, long term plan, building for the future etc.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with this pragmatic approach, but it can't be the stock answer for every single, shit performance.
Questions have to be asked over the quality of players, the quality of football, and the ABSOLUTELY appalling home form of the last couple of years.
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The 'always likely' comment wasn't meant to say that we should be happy about losing. I'm going to be in a bad mood all week now. I was just trying to say that it really shouldn't have come as a surprise, and certainly shouldn't be grounds for some of the wailing and knashing of teeth thats going on at the moment.
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We should never be happy to accept losing 4-0 on our own turf, no matter who we play. I know Spurs are a better side than us. That's patently obvious. We didn't even look in the same league as them though. I'd say we looked league 1, but had they played a league 1 side they would have got a better game. An underdog side would have been well up for it and really raised their game.
I'm just not sure the players really know how to do on the pitch what Lambert aspires for them to do. We look utterly clueless on our own turf particularly. When we can just shift up to top gear and break on teams we look okay, but even that is going to become increasingly harder to do. Last night was just pathetic. We didn't even give it a go. I think we'd written the game off. Just like City in the cup a few years back, or Hamburg.
Last night was also a sad indication of life without Benteke.
I know Spurs have spunked 100 million on players. We've let a lot of sides just really push on whilst we slip away. With the TV money that came in, I'm quite sure we had the funds to buy a couple of standout players this window. I mean we spent 7 million on a player that left everyone, probably particularly Helenius, scratching their heads.
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Not sure why only mentioned a couple of times but the debagging happened straight from the kick off and should have been a red as well as a pen - assuming we scored the pen (Big Brad is useless at them) then how can we possibly know that we would not have gone on with confidence and beat them?
Steer - Some decent stops but does not command the area, especially on set plays
Bennett - Thought he did very well against a guy who cost 20+ mil - possibly deserves the place for Saturday?
Vlaar - average and not totally convinced by him yet - he did however put a couple of great through balls from defence - including the one for the pant ripping event
Baker - thought he did really well - did not deserve to be on the end of a 4-0
Lowton - shocking - does not get forward and was responsible for 2 goals against Barcodes and at least 2 last night - no wonder he was dropped
Tonev - obviously a #10 and not a wide player - jury out on him at present due to being 1st season
Bacuna - large parts of the game i forgot he was playing
KEH - as others have said runs a lot but thats about it
Albrighton - decent shot, couple of decent crosses but too much of a luxury - 4 managers now to seal a regular place and it is not going to happen - shame but true
Sylla - Much better option with Westie / Delph than KEH
Kozak - worked hard but so isolated he never stood a chance
Spurs had 3 of their record signings on the pitch and the other one on the bench in case - i agree with other the depth of their squad could see them actually challenging for the title even though i get a bit of sick in my mouth when i say it
Hopefully it would be at the expence of the red bastards falling out of the top 4
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A Villa side missing its key players loses to Spurs. Mutiny!
And a very, very good Spurs side at that.
I'm surprsied by the reaction on here. Maybe it'll be different today once people have slept on it.
Its because its Spurs and part of the reaction is an annoyance at just how well they have got things together down there. I'd be very worried as a Yanited fan, becuase I think Spurs have more quality all over the park. If Spurs had bagged Benteke, then they would be close to winning the whole show.
They're easily the best side we've played all season and that includes going to the Emirates (where Arsenal actually turned them over) and Stamford Bridge.
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I agree with the majority of the posts on here - modern football is shit - and we are, unfortunately, one of the teams that has been caught most in the eye of the recent storms.
We all know the reasons - it's how we move forward which is the big question.
Their personnel was on a different level in every position to ours - and every year for the last few years they have passed us off the park.
Is that about money - or about a club / managers footballing ethos ?
It can't be just about money when you look how well a team such as Swansea knock the ball about. Sharp, incisive passing made easy by movement off the ball - even Wayne Routledge looks a different player down there now.
The most disappointing thing for me though was the attitude - we looked like we had given up before the start - and certainly more so in the second half.
The team needs a real leader - we haven't had one for too long now.
I also don't think Bennett was so bad - in fact, I would like to see him given a try in midfield with a Tony Moon at left back. I think he offers more for us in an advanced position. Bacuna looked better again and Marc Albrighton was one of the only ones who really tried to put a shift in.
The rest were just 'meh' - I don't want this football club to settle for 'meh'.
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I think people are very quick to forget that football today is not the same as 10 years ago. The difference in spend is not a few million here and there now, it is hundreds of millions of pounds. Spurs can afford it through massive ticket prices, London location and huge backers that are richer than Lerner. We can't. They put out a side tonight, their reserve side, that would probably be better than our first team all season. It is not being defeatest either, it is acknowledging that the playing field is so far tipped towards the money sides now, that those without have to plan differently.
Lambert is building. He has been in the job 15 months? If we are playing like this in 5 years I will be worried, but seriously, the reason Everton are in a good state for Martinez to build if because they gave Moyes 10 years despite finishing bottom 5 a couple of times. Swansea are an impressive side because they have stuck to a particular philosophy and approach over a long period of time.
Our next step is to spend say 30 million of the TV money on 3 players not 10. This will elevate the rest of the players and improve us no-end. At the moment we only have 3-4 class players and the rest are work men. We need more quality, but Lambert started pretty much from scratch and we need to give him 4-5 years IMO to sort it.
Hear hear
You're bang on with your assessment there Ozzjim.
I'll second (or third) that sentiment.
First half you could see what Lambert was trying to do - frustrate Spuds - which almost worked. El Ahamadi played quite well - but found Sandro difficult to beat. Kozak was all on his own but did quite well. Defence was reasonably comfortable. The 5 in midfield did keep Spurs at bay for most of the half.
Once they scored at end of first half it appears the towel was thrown in. Kozak and El Ahamadi taken off to save them for the weekend. Helenius - needs to improve his first touch which at times is woeful. Bowery - I'm sorry but if you sent him back to Shrewsbury he wouldn't get in their first team either.
Plus points. Albrighton looked OK at times - but he is at best a Championship player - and would do well at that level - maybe another Peter Whittingham type - who would achieve success with a decent team. Tonev at least got 1 decent shot on target and had a couple of decent runs. Bacuna looks to be settling in. Steer made a few good saves first half. Sylla looks fairly solid and needs more time on the pitch.
What we are lacking - somebody to dominate midfield. Spurs had Sandro who I thought was MoM.
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Bennett was our only player who my Spurs mate thought was any good for what its worth.
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I think people are very quick to forget that football today is not the same as 10 years ago. The difference in spend is not a few million here and there now, it is hundreds of millions of pounds. Spurs can afford it through massive ticket prices, London location and huge backers that are richer than Lerner. We can't. They put out a side tonight, their reserve side, that would probably be better than our first team all season. It is not being defeatest either, it is acknowledging that the playing field is so far tipped towards the money sides now, that those without have to plan differently.
Lambert is building. He has been in the job 15 months? If we are playing like this in 5 years I will be worried, but seriously, the reason Everton are in a good state for Martinez to build if because they gave Moyes 10 years despite finishing bottom 5 a couple of times. Swansea are an impressive side because they have stuck to a particular philosophy and approach over a long period of time.
Our next step is to spend say 30 million of the TV money on 3 players not 10. This will elevate the rest of the players and improve us no-end. At the moment we only have 3-4 class players and the rest are work men. We need more quality, but Lambert started pretty much from scratch and we need to give him 4-5 years IMO to sort it.
Hear hear
Thirded. I don't see what choice we've got.
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I would have thought that with the money we have spent since Lambert took over we had a choice to either generally strengthen the squad in all departments or each of the two summers buy two or three players who would be almost guaranteed to strengthen the starting eleven. Having taken the long term view and done the former I would like to think we now have the luxury of doing the latter in future.
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I think people are very quick to forget that football today is not the same as 10 years ago. The difference in spend is not a few million here and there now, it is hundreds of millions of pounds. Spurs can afford it through massive ticket prices, London location and huge backers that are richer than Lerner. We can't. They put out a side tonight, their reserve side, that would probably be better than our first team all season. It is not being defeatest either, it is acknowledging that the playing field is so far tipped towards the money sides now, that those without have to plan differently.
Lambert is building. He has been in the job 15 months? If we are playing like this in 5 years I will be worried, but seriously, the reason Everton are in a good state for Martinez to build if because they gave Moyes 10 years despite finishing bottom 5 a couple of times. Swansea are an impressive side because they have stuck to a particular philosophy and approach over a long period of time.
Our next step is to spend say 30 million of the TV money on 3 players not 10. This will elevate the rest of the players and improve us no-end. At the moment we only have 3-4 class players and the rest are work men. We need more quality, but Lambert started pretty much from scratch and we need to give him 4-5 years IMO to sort it.
Got to agree with this, Like it or not we've got to have patience as we cant compete financially.
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By the way the inaccuracy of the commentary on 5 live was astounding
Apparently we have citeh then Chelsea next, Lowton came up through the youth team, Suarez was playing tonight, we lost at Norwich at the weekend.
I listened open mouthed at the sheer incompetence of the "commentator" he also said former Everton striker Berbatov scored for Fulham....and sad to say Dean Saunders also got into the act....
last night ? did not expect anything and got nothing.....the Spurs weakend side had two players in it that cost £17+£24 million....they scored on half time, should of been a pen and a red card....then the second came with in my opinion a dangerous foot up and two goals in 6 mins at the end. perfect for Spurs.
UTV
The Doc
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The morning after the night before, as thoroughly disappointed as I was, mainly because I was at the game, and it was my first one is ages, the points made by Ozz are worth bearing in mind. We are not at the level of Spurs as utterly shit as that is to admit, and once our squad is diluted due to injury it is even more exposed. I just hope that in seasons to come that we don't only persist with the current transfer policy. That once we have completely shed the remaining unwanted wages that we free up our transfer policy for signings that will actually move this club forwards at a more aggressive pace.
The current plan will keep us out of trouble (just), but it will never be enough to bridge the gap between the middle and the upper echelons of the table, and to make us competitive in all competitions every season. If things go to plan and we get into Europe in the next couple of seasons our resources will be stretched again, but as Swansea are showing it can be done with a sustained plan over many years and some very astute signings.
Let's hope the lads who didn't play last night, Benteke aside are well rested and put in a solid shift at the weekend.
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Some points that separated Spurs from the Villa last night:-
1. Confidence of a player in possession even under pressure, another player always available.
2. instant control of the ball which allowed for quick decisions.
3. Strength in and out of the tackle, Villa players, apart from Sylla,were too easily knocked off the ball.
4. Pressure, Spurs were far quicker to close us down.
5. Movement, the Villa midfield has to become more mobile and make those runs that split defenses, it is a worrying statistic on how long it has been since a Villa midfielder has been on the score sheet.
I am happy that all the above on work in progress but I wonder about the level of coaching being done with these young players.
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Some points that separated Spurs from the Villa last night:-
1. Confidence of a player in possession even under pressure, another player always available.
2. instant control of the ball which allowed for quick decisions.
3. Strength in and out of the tackle, Villa players, apart from Sylla,were too easily knocked off the ball.
4. Pressure, Spurs were far quicker to close us down.
5. Movement, the Villa midfield has to become more mobile and make those runs that split defenses, it is a worrying statistic on how long it has been since a Villa midfielder has been on the score sheet.
I am happy that all the above on work in progress but I wonder about the level of coaching being done with these young players.
These are all excellent points, nice one.
Reagrding number 1 - is this something we're missing when Westy is out of the team?
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As much as it loathes me to say it, Spurs have a very good side - I think their squad as a whole is better than Man Utd now. Our squad is better than last season but still recovering from years of decay. Take our 3-4 better players out of the equation and we'll struggle.
All that said, it's still far, far too easy for teams to come and play at Villa Park at the moment and it needs addressing.
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Some points that separated Spurs from the Villa last night:-
1. Confidence of a player in possession even under pressure, another player always available.
2. instant control of the ball which allowed for quick decisions.
3. Strength in and out of the tackle, Villa players, apart from Sylla,were too easily knocked off the ball.
4. Pressure, Spurs were far quicker to close us down.
5. Movement, the Villa midfield has to become more mobile and make those runs that split defenses, it is a worrying statistic on how long it has been since a Villa midfielder has been on the score sheet.
I am happy that all the above on work in progress but I wonder about the level of coaching being done with these young players.
Very good observations, our first touch seems to be missing compared to the latter part of the season. and our work rate in closing sides down seems to have dropped. I think all those qualities are there but need to be focussed on every game
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One thing I was thinking about last night - the poor ball retention and playing at a million miles an hour when we do have the ball.
Might be a chicken/egg thing, but do we play quickly because we know we cant hold on to the ball, or can we not hold on to the ball because we play too quickly?
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One thing I was thinking about last night - the poor ball retention and playing at a million miles an hour when we do have the ball.
Might be a chicken/egg thing, but do we play quickly because we know we cant hold on to the ball, or can we not hold on to the ball because we play too quickly?
I'm not sure why we do it, but it must be changed. We have to get a lot better at retaining the ball.
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Best part of the night for me was the away supports 'is there a fire drill' when the droves left at 3-0. Bad as it was had to have a chuckle at that. Oh (and i'm not blaming anyone but) never heard the place so quiet.
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Best part of the night for me was the away supports 'is there a fire drill' when the droves left at 3-0. Bad as it was had to have a chuckle at that. Oh (and i'm not blaming anyone but) never heard the place so quiet.
I think we sung that at Arsenal this season....
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It's fine if we're just waiting to clear the remaining big earners off our wage bill before spending again, so next summer I expect us not to be signing drek from shit foreign leagues, or making our one expensive-ish signing in a position that we don't need. I'm not holding my breath though.
I'm getting fed up with Lambert to be honest. I'm getting fed up with shite home results interspersed with the odd battering here and there (we've played Spurs twice at home in the last nine months and conceded 8 with no reply), I'm getting fed up of the tacit approval of our decline in status that comes with the lowering of expectations. I see above that we should be looking up to Swansea as a way to run our club.
Aston Villa should be emulating Swansea City.
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Had a few beers for the first time in a while whilst 'enjoying' the match last night, damn what an awful hangover to wake up to this morning!
We were extremely poor last night, for me no positives to take from that really. Lambert is apparently claiming that the scoreline flattered Spurs or words to that effect. Not how i saw it.
Hope we get Delph back in on Sat, and Gabby.
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It's fine if we're just waiting to clear the remaining big earners off our wage bill before spending again, so next summer I expect us not to be signing drek from shit foreign leagues, or making our one expensive-ish signing in a position that we don't need. I'm not holding my breath though.
I'm getting fed up with Lambert to be honest. I'm getting fed up with shite home results interspersed with the odd battering here and there (we've played Spurs twice at home in the last nine months and conceded 8 with no reply), I'm getting fed up of the tacit approval of our decline in status that comes with the lowering of expectations. I see above that we should be looking up to Swansea as a way to run our club.
Aston Villa should be emulating Swansea City.
Good post.
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First of all, Benoit Assou-Ekotto said in 2010, as I'm sure we'll all remember: 'if we [Spurs] are not careful, we'll end up like Villa.' They were careful, and struck gold with Gareth Bale into the bargain. We appointed Alex McLeish, and it's difficult to think of a more retarding decision made in Villa's history.
However, we need to keep the ball better. Swansea have busted the myth that it's all about having better players - though that obviously helps - but if you can get the right players to play pass-and-move and drill them pretty hard in it, then you will keep a lot of the ball and thereby deny the opposition opportunities. We just play a billion miles an hour with, apparently, no thoughts. It's not good enough, not at all.
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We won major trophies in the 1990s, 1980s, 1970s, 1960s, 1950s not to mention our illustrious history up to that point. We flirted with honours at times in the 2000s but made some horrendous decisions that have held us back (under Gregory, GT mark II, O'Leary and MON).
We got off to the worst possible start in the new decade with three pretty poor campaigns, it's still remarkable to think we actually managed ninth in 10/11 after such a poor season.
We started from scratch, our year zero if you will, last season and nearly got relegated. We seem to have made a little progress this year but when you compare it to where Spurs and Everton are, not to mention Man fecking City, you just feel we are further away than ever. Plus, we have to be realistic and acknowledge that for all our progress, any star performer we get will just be bought by a 'big club', like bloody Spurs.
My gripe about all this is that we find ourselves in this vortex because of several unforced errors. This is all our own fault. Yes, modern football is crap, we all hate the ceiling it has put on what we can achieved but we HAD plenty of money and several other things the likes of Swansea, don't have: history, a world class stadium, top training facilities, top academy and a large, fanatical fanbase. We are underachieving massively, we have fucked ourselves over. We had some of the most expensive players in the league over the past few years and they were scarcely kicking a ball for us. How did we end up squandering so much money for no return? How did we end up in a situation where we are now having to work on the basis of: right, lets avoid a relegation struggle this season and put it down as progress and hope that we can replicate that the following year when we more than likely lose Benteke.
I'm not trying to be dramatic, I am fully behind Lambert and what he is trying to do. I just feel that the club's idiocy, when compared to the way several other clubs have been run, has unnecessarily held us back by several years. We are now light years away from where we were even five years ago. When will we be beating the likes of Ajax in European competition again?
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We won major trophies in the 1990s, 1980s, 1970s, 1960s, 1950s not to mention our illustrious history up to that point. We flirted with honours at times in the 2000s but made some horrendous decisions that have held us back (under Gregory, GT mark II, O'Leary and MON).
We got off to the worst possible start in the new decade with three pretty poor campaigns, it's still remarkable to think we actually managed ninth in 10/11 after such a poor season.
We started from scratch, our year zero if you will, last season and nearly got relegated. We seem to have made a little progress this year but when you compare it to where Spurs and Everton are, not to mention Man fecking City, you just feel we are further away than ever. Plus, we have to be realistic and acknowledge that for all our progress, any star performer we get will just be bought by a 'big club', like bloody Spurs.
My gripe about all this is that we find ourselves in this vortex because of several unforced errors. This is all our own fault. Yes, modern football is crap, we all hate the ceiling it has put on what we can achieved but we HAD plenty of money and several other things the likes of Swansea, don't have: history, a world class stadium, top training facilities, top academy and a large, fanatical fanbase. We are underachieving massively, we have fucked ourselves over. We had some of the most expensive players in the league over the past few years and they were scarcely kicking a ball for us. How did we end up squandering so much money for no return? How did we end up in a situation where we are now having to work on the basis of: right, lets avoid a relegation struggle this season and put it down as progress and hope that we can replicate that the following year when we more than likely lose Benteke.
I'm not trying to be dramatic, I am fully behind Lambert and what he is trying to do. I just feel that the club's idiocy, when compared to the way several other clubs have been run, has unnecessarily held us back by several years. We are now light years away from where we were even five years ago. When will we be beating the likes of Ajax in European competition again?
Great post
We fucked ourselves and each year we have fallen further and further behind.
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Just seen the penalty that wasn't given! I suppose I shouldn't be shocked at the referee ignoring it! Nothing else in the game worth commenting about!
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I've waited until now to post as I wanted to be sure I was not just reacting to the result.
Basically I'm just bored and fed-up of turning up to see this dross. The Season Ticket feels like a millstone this morning and I was kicking myself for actually shelling out an extra £20.
Best bit of last night was at 0-2 when we (back of the Holte) just kept singing the C&B Army tune - felt like a desperate attempt to entertain ourselves - which is basically what it has come to.
I go to VP for a laugh, some action and incident, the odd great performance and some entertainment - most of these have been sadly lacking for 3-and-a-bit seasons.
This "development" lark is all well and good but it's damned boring...
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Harping on about what choice Lambert had with team selection does not excuse the fact that our passing and ball control was appalling, as it was against Newcastle. Professional footballers should do better.
We cannot continue dreaming about the next transfer window.
Losing 4-0 at home is not acceptable against any opposition in the same division, in my view, regardless of it being 'only the League Cup'.
How many of those who are remaining so wonderfully composed about it came out of the ground last night with any thoughts other than that they had just witnessed a load of rubbish again?
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We cannot continue dreaming about the next transfer window.
I'm dreading it. I expect a bid for the beast. Especially if Man U are struggling.
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We cannot continue dreaming about the next transfer window.
I'm dreading it. I expect a bid for the beast. Especially if Man U are struggling.
Chelsea and Arsenal could also be sniffing. Spurs may well want another crack if Soldado has been quiet. The only positive is that being January, we'd be able to demand silly money.
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I think the biggest irritation for me at the moment is that the squad has not been strengthened in the right areas this summer. Never mind bringing in supposedly decent back up for performing players, how about bringing players to replace players that were not performing last season. We didn't have a decent CB in the club last season and he brings in 1 new player, a 21 year old never played in the PL before. He's now injured (which obviously isn't Lambert's fault) but we are now in a position where we have to use the same shit as we did last season. We were dubious to say the least at 'holding' Central midfield and he doesn't bother with that position at all. For me, Bacuna is a stand in for Weinmann, even though once fit we already have N'Zogbia, Tonev is a stand in for Gabby, and we bought 2 stand in's for Benteke. The only thing we did address was the left back position, although that wasn't as desperate as the others mentioned. No experience or leadership bought in. This is what needs sorting and has done for way too fucking long now.
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How many of those who are remaining so wonderfully composed about it came out of the ground last night with any thoughts other than that they had just witnessed a load of rubbish again?
*shrugs*
I drove down the motorway expecting to see a load of rubbish.
By and large, League Cup games and early round FA Cup games at home are awful matches.
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Whats really chuffing annoying too is that Richard Dunne has been excellent for QPR so far. I'd been taking the piss out of my R's supporting mate, but Dunney's been rock solid apparently and a class apart. Exactly the sort of presence they lacked last season, and indeed what we lack this season. There's something painfully ironic about that. I'm not sure he had quite the injury problems publicized last season. I figured he'd got to a stage where he'd be like Ledley King and play every other week and barely train. That hasn't been the case. He's played most of their games thus far and looked excellent.
Not that I'm saying we should have kept him! But we could do with a proven premier league center half at the moment. Vlaar isn't good enough IMO. He's improved but he's just not reliable enough and doesn't stamp his authority on a game as well as being disappointingly un-concrete.
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How many of those who are remaining so wonderfully composed about it came out of the ground last night with any thoughts other than that they had just witnessed a load of rubbish again?
*shrugs*
I drove down the motorway expecting to see a load of rubbish.
By and large, League Cup games and early round FA Cup games at home are awful matches.
Unfortunately so are most of our home league matches.
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How many of those who are remaining so wonderfully composed about it came out of the ground last night with any thoughts other than that they had just witnessed a load of rubbish again?
*shrugs*
I drove down the motorway expecting to see a load of rubbish.
By and large, League Cup games and early round FA Cup games at home are awful matches.
Unfortunately so are most of our home league matches.
An incontrovertible fact, sad to say.
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Ok, with the players that were carrying knocks and injured, what side would you have put out?
Only two players are injured. Benteke and Okore. Others are "carrying knocks" and were rested and will be, miraclessly, available on Saturday. My point is he should have treated this game as must win and not worried about a league game coming up. Why didn't we have one of the best keeper in PL playing for starters?
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Ok, with the players that were carrying knocks and injured, what side would you have put out?
Only two players are injured. Benteke and Okore. Others are "carrying knocks" and were rested and will be, miraclessly, available on Saturday. My point is he should have treated this game as must win and not worried about a league game coming up. Why didn't we have one of the best keeper in PL playing for starters?
Those days have long gone, and not just for us.
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Resting a keeper has always baffled me. Especially if he is on the bench and has to train, prepare and travel the same as usual. Play him or give him a day or two off. I can however see it from the point of giving a game to the back up keeper.
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The worry for me is another heavy home defeat and with man city to come on Saturday i fear we will be in for a similar result.
We must address the problems at villa park and find a way of playing that improves our style and results at home.
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Ok, with the players that were carrying knocks and injured, what side would you have put out?
Only two players are injured. Benteke and Okore. Others are "carrying knocks" and were rested and will be, miraclessly, available on Saturday. My point is he should have treated this game as must win and not worried about a league game coming up. Why didn't we have one of the best keeper in PL playing for starters?
Personally i'd have played Guzan last night but he's brought a number 2 keeper in and it was a chance to give him some more game time so i'm ok with that.
As for the players 'carrying knocks', making them run round for 90 minutes in a cup game and possibly making their knocks worse isn't a good idea with some league games coming up. Maybe if it was another situation like Rotherham where we didn't have another game for over 2 weeks, then maybe he would have risked them.
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I'd like to know who made this decision that we should take The League Cup lightly? I watched the 77 final on you tube the other night and was still proud of winning it. We just accept mediocrity now and take defeat like it means fuck all.
Its only September and were 'resting' players. Is avoiding relegation all we have to look forward to?
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I think people are very quick to forget that football today is not the same as 10 years ago. The difference in spend is not a few million here and there now, it is hundreds of millions of pounds. Spurs can afford it through massive ticket prices, London location and huge backers that are richer than Lerner. We can't. They put out a side tonight, their reserve side, that would probably be better than our first team all season. It is not being defeatest either, it is acknowledging that the playing field is so far tipped towards the money sides now, that those without have to plan differently.
Lambert is building. He has been in the job 15 months? If we are playing like this in 5 years I will be worried, but seriously, the reason Everton are in a good state for Martinez to build if because they gave Moyes 10 years despite finishing bottom 5 a couple of times. Swansea are an impressive side because they have stuck to a particular philosophy and approach over a long period of time.
Our next step is to spend say 30 million of the TV money on 3 players not 10. This will elevate the rest of the players and improve us no-end. At the moment we only have 3-4 class players and the rest are work men. We need more quality, but Lambert started pretty much from scratch and we need to give him 4-5 years IMO to sort it.
Hear hear
You're bang on with your assessment there Ozzjim.
I'll second (or third) that sentiment.
First half you could see what Lambert was trying to do - frustrate Spuds - which almost worked. El Ahamadi played quite well - but found Sandro difficult to beat. Kozak was all on his own but did quite well. Defence was reasonably comfortable. The 5 in midfield did keep Spurs at bay for most of the half.
Once they scored at end of first half it appears the towel was thrown in. Kozak and El Ahamadi taken off to save them for the weekend. Helenius - needs to improve his first touch which at times is woeful. Bowery - I'm sorry but if you sent him back to Shrewsbury he wouldn't get in their first team either.
Plus points. Albrighton looked OK at times - but he is at best a Championship player - and would do well at that level - maybe another Peter Whittingham type - who would achieve success with a decent team. Tonev at least got 1 decent shot on target and had a couple of decent runs. Bacuna looks to be settling in. Steer made a few good saves first half. Sylla looks fairly solid and needs more time on the pitch.
What we are lacking - somebody to dominate midfield. Spurs had Sandro who I thought was MoM.
With all due respect - I endorse Ozzjim's comments here - we did not throw in the towel after Spurs scored. We were shaky to half time but came out fighting and were undone by back to back injustice. It would have been a different game at 1-1 and playing 10 men and even if we'd missed the pen that was never a freekick that led to the cornalty from which they scored the second. Even then we ended up with more possession as a result of forcing the game in the second half and the third goal were lucky (Steer should have saved it) - only then did heads drop and we gifted them the fourth.
4-0 really flattered them although they did dominate the shot count and we in truth didn't create many clear chances. There was not the vast gulf that is being claimed by some on here and Lambert's half time changes were clearly aimed at having a go and at least initially had that effect.
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I'd like to know who made this decision that we should take The League Cup lightly? I watched the 77 final on you tube the other night and was still proud of winning it. We just accept mediocrity now and take defeat like it means fuck all.
Its only September and were 'resting' players. Is avoiding relegation all we have to look forward to?
We were resting players who have knocks. Why is that so hard to grasp?
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Gabby, Delph and Luna all played through injury on saturday as well. Playing 180 minutes of premiership-standard football in 4 days is a good way of ensuring that a slight knock becomes a strain, or a pulled muscle, or something else that'll keep you out for a lot longer than a mid week cup game.
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I'd like to know who made this decision that we should take The League Cup lightly? I watched the 77 final on you tube the other night and was still proud of winning it. We just accept mediocrity now and take defeat like it means fuck all.
Its only September and were 'resting' players. Is avoiding relegation all we have to look forward to?
We were resting players who have knocks. Why is that so hard to grasp?
Not totally true, even if all fit i doubt lambert would have played his strongest team having read his comments regarding the man city game and the importance of it .
Guzan wasnt injured and was rested as was Weimann and i think had it been a league game he would not have sent that side out last night .
It seems as many have pointed out that the premiership is the be all and end all and the cups are not taken as seriously which is sad to see , this was probably our best hope of silverware this season and its gone .
Lamberts pre match comments seemed to underline that he saw the man city game as the priority above a league cup tie.
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I'd like to know who made this decision that we should take The League Cup lightly? I watched the 77 final on you tube the other night and was still proud of winning it. We just accept mediocrity now and take defeat like it means fuck all.
Its only September and were 'resting' players. Is avoiding relegation all we have to look forward to?
We were resting players who have knocks. Why is that so hard to grasp?
Not totally true, even if all fit i doubt lambert would have played his strongest team having read his comments regarding the man city game and the importance of it .
Guzan wasnt injured and was rested and i think had it been a league game he would not have sent that side out last night .
It seems as many have pointed out that the premiership is the be all and end all and the cups are not taken as seriously which is sad to see , this was probably our best hope of silverware this season and its gone .
We were short-changed. I felt embarrassed and let down by the performance. Whatever happened to the 'Proud History, Bright Future'? Our proud history includes a proud record in the League Cup. Our heritage is important but I feel it was dealt a huge blow last night. Yes we have a proud history but it may be that is all we have to savour because the future will not be bright if we continue to sacrifice our tradition to the altar of the Premier League.
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I'd like to know who made this decision that we should take The League Cup lightly? I watched the 77 final on you tube the other night and was still proud of winning it. We just accept mediocrity now and take defeat like it means fuck all.
Its only September and were 'resting' players. Is avoiding relegation all we have to look forward to?
We were resting players who have knocks. Why is that so hard to grasp?
Not totally true, even if all fit i doubt lambert would have played his strongest team having read his comments regarding the man city game and the importance of it .
Guzan wasnt injured and was rested as was Weimann and i think had it been a league game he would not have sent that side out last night .
It seems as many have pointed out that the premiership is the be all and end all and the cups are not taken as seriously which is sad to see , this was probably our best hope of silverware this season and its gone .
Lamberts pre match comments seemed to underline that he saw the man city game as the priority above a league cup tie.
Which is ridiculous when the club try to promote these cup games on the OS. Why should the fans bother to turn up if the club has no intention of competing in our only realistic chance of silverware?
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I'd like to know who made this decision that we should take The League Cup lightly? I watched the 77 final on you tube the other night and was still proud of winning it. We just accept mediocrity now and take defeat like it means fuck all.
Its only September and were 'resting' players. Is avoiding relegation all we have to look forward to?
We were resting players who have knocks. Why is that so hard to grasp?
Not totally true, even if all fit i doubt lambert would have played his strongest team having read his comments regarding the man city game and the importance of it .
Guzan wasnt injured and was rested and i think had it been a league game he would not have sent that side out last night .
It seems as many have pointed out that the premiership is the be all and end all and the cups are not taken as seriously which is sad to see , this was probably our best hope of silverware this season and its gone .
I think if all our players had been fit he probably would have made one or two changes at the most but the team still would have been stronger than it was last night. I think it's obvious that he might have risked the one's carrying knocks had it been a league game.
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If we'd not had the injuries and knocks we'd have put out a side that included a few players you wouldn't normally see on a weekend, with a smattering of our bigger players. Something similar to what Spurs did. Last nights team with either Gabby or Beteke in it could've looked quite a lot different, but as it was, we couldn't really risk wiping Weimman out too! It was the injuries that took this selection from a normal early round league up side to a side we barely recognised, and who, seemed to barely recognised each other.
For me, I could see 10 minutes in that it wasn't our night, & kind of relaxed into watching a reserve game & seeing what different individuals have to offer.
When you lose 2 goals in he last 5 minutes of a cup tie, it really doesn't make any difference - it happens because you may as well push up. The fact that so many walked out on 85 mins when the 3rd went in, shows that despite what people say, they thought we could still be in it till then. I actually laughed & said 'Were you all waiting for the big comeback?' I wasn't, I was still there because as he game went on I saw some improvement, both in individual performances and in shape - I like watching my team develop, try stuff out - I sometimes think I'm not supposed to be into football because my tolerance of failure is pretty high! I like the journey, not just the destination - i used to think this was what it was about for non-glory hunters. Now I'm not
so sure.
If I'm annoyed its that it was sold @£20 on the basis of it being a more attractive fixture than Rotherham, yet it played out like a reserve match. The result, I just saw as an inevitable result of things not going for us on the run up to this game.
I don't know how people align rage with 'years of underachievement' with endless shock at nights like this. This is where we have been for a while now, we aren't going to bounce back overnight. If we don't stick with something, sometime, then we aren't bouncing back at all. There is no managerial genius out there who is taking us back to the top in 18 months. If there is someone that good, I am afraid they will have better offers than us.
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I must say i agree that we should play our strongest available side in cup games as the cups are our only chance of silverware and look what happened with wigan last season - yes there were some injuries and knocks but he could have put out a stronger side if he had wished.
O Neill did the same as did houllier , and it saddens me that we do this.
I can understand champions league sides doing similar but villa are a historic cup side and we should be looking to do as well as possible in cups.
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I'd like to know who made this decision that we should take The League Cup lightly? I watched the 77 final on you tube the other night and was still proud of winning it. We just accept mediocrity now and take defeat like it means fuck all.
Its only September and were 'resting' players. Is avoiding relegation all we have to look forward to?
We were resting players who have knocks. Why is that so hard to grasp?
Not totally true, even if all fit i doubt lambert would have played his strongest team having read his comments regarding the man city game and the importance of it .
Guzan wasnt injured and was rested and i think had it been a league game he would not have sent that side out last night .
It seems as many have pointed out that the premiership is the be all and end all and the cups are not taken as seriously which is sad to see , this was probably our best hope of silverware this season and its gone .
I think if all our players had been fit he probably would have made one or two changes at the most but the team still would have been stronger than it was last night. I think it's obvious that he might have risked the one's carrying knocks had it been a league game.
Better not bother buying tickets for the FA Cup game on 4th January because we have a big game against Arsenal the following week!
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yes there were some injuries and knocks but he could have put out a stronger side if he had wished.
But you don't know that for sure. Gabby and Luna were both carrying knocks on Saturday so playing them again 3 days later would have been a risk.
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I'd like to know who made this decision that we should take The League Cup lightly? I watched the 77 final on you tube the other night and was still proud of winning it. We just accept mediocrity now and take defeat like it means fuck all.
Its only September and were 'resting' players. Is avoiding relegation all we have to look forward to?
We were resting players who have knocks. Why is that so hard to grasp?
Not totally true, even if all fit i doubt lambert would have played his strongest team having read his comments regarding the man city game and the importance of it .
Guzan wasnt injured and was rested and i think had it been a league game he would not have sent that side out last night .
It seems as many have pointed out that the premiership is the be all and end all and the cups are not taken as seriously which is sad to see , this was probably our best hope of silverware this season and its gone .
We were short-changed. I felt embarrassed and let down by the performance. Whatever happened to the 'Proud History, Bright Future'? Our proud history includes a proud record in the League Cup. Our heritage is important but I feel it was dealt a huge blow last night. Yes we have a proud history but it may be that is all we have to savour because the future will not be bright if we continue to sacrifice our tradition to the altar of the Premier League.
When was the last time we put out a full team in the League Cup?
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I'd like to know who made this decision that we should take The League Cup lightly? I watched the 77 final on you tube the other night and was still proud of winning it. We just accept mediocrity now and take defeat like it means fuck all.
Its only September and were 'resting' players. Is avoiding relegation all we have to look forward to?
We were resting players who have knocks. Why is that so hard to grasp?
Not totally true, even if all fit i doubt lambert would have played his strongest team having read his comments regarding the man city game and the importance of it .
Guzan wasnt injured and was rested and i think had it been a league game he would not have sent that side out last night .
It seems as many have pointed out that the premiership is the be all and end all and the cups are not taken as seriously which is sad to see , this was probably our best hope of silverware this season and its gone .
I think if all our players had been fit he probably would have made one or two changes at the most but the team still would have been stronger than it was last night. I think it's obvious that he might have risked the one's carrying knocks had it been a league game.
Better not bother buying tickets for the FA Cup game on 4th January because we have a big game against Arsenal the following week!
That's up to the individual fan to decide I suppose.
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I'd like to know who made this decision that we should take The League Cup lightly? I watched the 77 final on you tube the other night and was still proud of winning it. We just accept mediocrity now and take defeat like it means fuck all.
Its only September and were 'resting' players. Is avoiding relegation all we have to look forward to?
We were resting players who have knocks. Why is that so hard to grasp?
Not totally true, even if all fit i doubt lambert would have played his strongest team having read his comments regarding the man city game and the importance of it .
Guzan wasnt injured and was rested and i think had it been a league game he would not have sent that side out last night .
It seems as many have pointed out that the premiership is the be all and end all and the cups are not taken as seriously which is sad to see , this was probably our best hope of silverware this season and its gone .
We were short-changed. I felt embarrassed and let down by the performance. Whatever happened to the 'Proud History, Bright Future'? Our proud history includes a proud record in the League Cup. Our heritage is important but I feel it was dealt a huge blow last night. Yes we have a proud history but it may be that is all we have to savour because the future will not be bright if we continue to sacrifice our tradition to the altar of the Premier League.
When was the last time we put out a full team in the League Cup?
Wembley 2010
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yes there were some injuries and knocks but he could have put out a stronger side if he had wished.
But you don't know that for sure. Gabby and Luna were both carrying knocks on Saturday so playing them again 3 days later would have been a risk.
Guzan and Weimann ? I appreciate some had knocks and accept your point but i just think its sad the way the premiership has become the holy grail and the cups taken more lightly , thats all.
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Id rather take the cup games seriously and play the reserves against the top 3/4... We will get twatted on saturday whatever team we have out...
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Id rather take the cup games seriously and play the reserves against the top 3/4... We will get twatted on saturday whatever team we have out...
Interesting and probably true .
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Id rather take the cup games seriously and play the reserves against the top 3/4... We will get twatted on saturday whatever team we have out...
Then if they had played last night and aggravated their injuries and were out for longer the manager gets called an idiot for risking them. With Benteke already out surely he has to use a bit of common sense.
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Id rather take the cup games seriously and play the reserves against the top 3/4... We will get twatted on saturday whatever team we have out...
Personally I think that's a mad idea.
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Why though, last season showed even we had a chance to win something, get into europe etc. getting thumped by the top four is no fun and pretty predictable at the moment. Id rather have a day at wembely and finish in the bottom half.
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Why though, last season showed even we had a chance to win something, get into europe etc. getting thumped by the top four is no fun and pretty predictable at the moment. Id rather have a day at wembely and finish in the bottom half.
It's a ridiculous idea, sorry. Besides we didn't get thumped on the opening day or at Chelsea.
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Why though, last season showed even we had a chance to win something, get into europe etc. getting thumped by the top four is no fun and pretty predictable at the moment. Id rather have a day at wembely and finish in the bottom half.
It's a ridiculous idea, sorry. Besides we didn't get thumped on the opening day or at Chelsea.
Your point is a valid one clampy and the thing that needs to be addressed fast is that we look a reasonable side away from home and a poor side at home - we must find a way of playing at villa park which puts more pressure on the opposition and takes the game to them - our home form is of huge concern and not just the results but the style of play .
We are very much Jekyll and Hyde.
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Hoping we don't get a long injury list based on what was one show last night. Buying in young players seems to mean having to be extremely patient while they adapt to the higher standard of opposition. As with the youngsters last year this means we need to get the likes of Tonev and Bacuna playing and suffer the consequences. I wonder whether the fans will be as patient this time around? Only bright point for me was Sylla but he cocked up at the death resulting in the last goal. Oh, and albrighton tried hard but just can't beat a player anymore.
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I'd like to know who made this decision that we should take The League Cup lightly? I watched the 77 final on you tube the other night and was still proud of winning it. We just accept mediocrity now and take defeat like it means fuck all.
Its only September and were 'resting' players. Is avoiding relegation all we have to look forward to?
Thinking of 1977 and earlier times brings two-legged ties / replays (more than one if necessary) to mind.
I must admit that a replay in this competition would be a pain these days. There is no enthusiasm.
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I'd like to know who made this decision that we should take The League Cup lightly? I watched the 77 final on you tube the other night and was still proud of winning it. We just accept mediocrity now and take defeat like it means fuck all.
Its only September and were 'resting' players. Is avoiding relegation all we have to look forward to?
We were resting players who have knocks. Why is that so hard to grasp?
Not totally true, even if all fit i doubt lambert would have played his strongest team having read his comments regarding the man city game and the importance of it .
Guzan wasnt injured and was rested and i think had it been a league game he would not have sent that side out last night .
It seems as many have pointed out that the premiership is the be all and end all and the cups are not taken as seriously which is sad to see , this was probably our best hope of silverware this season and its gone .
We were short-changed. I felt embarrassed and let down by the performance. Whatever happened to the 'Proud History, Bright Future'? Our proud history includes a proud record in the League Cup. Our heritage is important but I feel it was dealt a huge blow last night. Yes we have a proud history but it may be that is all we have to savour because the future will not be bright if we continue to sacrifice our tradition to the altar of the Premier League.
When was the last time we put out a full team in the League Cup?
The last time we got knocked-out, a whole eight months ago? Or maybe just outfield as Given played throughout the cup campaigns and not Guzan.
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I think the argument about 'resting' players and giving players a break who have knocks proves one thing.
Our squad is woefully short on experience and ability.
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Whichever way you look at this, they have opted for Premier League survival in September ahead of a good cup run.
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Whichever way you look at this, they have opted for Premier League survival in September ahead of a good cup run.
Disagree with your interpretation.
Lambert has - like others before him - mixed up team selection in the League Cup. Anyone buying a ticket for last night should have expected the selection to be different from the P'ship team.
What made it more skewed last night was the risk of exacerbating injuries to certain players.
I can also see why he rested Weimann, whose game is pretty energy-sapping - and anyway he'd obviously decided he wanted to play 4-5-1.
I can see why Steer played: he's a pretty decent keeper that needs game-time.
Lambert has to give the players he bought some chances to get into the P'ship pace - people like Bacuna, Tonev, Helenius and Kozak will be less effective later in the season if they haven't had some run-outs now.
It's painful but I can see why last night was as it was; I can't imagine Lambert enjoyed it much either.
Spurrrrrs have had the opportuntiy to buy some world-class players: accept the fact that at the moment they are streets ahead of us in terms of development.
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Whichever way you look at this, they have opted for Premier League survival in September ahead of a good cup run.
What make you say that?
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Whichever way you look at this, they have opted for Premier League survival in September ahead of a good cup run.
What make you say that?
Everything is shit, Lambert is a terrible manager, all our players are crap and Randy Lerner wants to ruin the club.
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Whichever way you look at this, they have opted for Premier League survival in September ahead of a good cup run.
Disagree with your interpretation.
Lambert has - like others before him - mixed up team selection in the League Cup. Anyone buying a ticket for last night should have expected the selection to be different from the P'ship team.
What made it more skewed last night was the risk of exacerbating injuries to certain players.
I can also see why he rested Weimann, whose game is pretty energy-sapping - and anyway he'd obviously decided he wanted to play 4-5-1.
I can see why Steer played: he's a pretty decent keeper that needs game-time.
Lambert has to give the players he bought some chances to get into the P'ship pace - people like Bacuna, Tonev, Helenius and Kozak will be less effective later in the season if they haven't had some run-outs now.
It's painful but I can see why last night was as it was; I can't imagine Lambert enjoyed it much either.
Spurrrrrs have had the opportuntiy to buy some world-class players: accept the fact that at the moment they are streets ahead of us in terms of development.
Spot on. It's horrible and I don't like Villa losing by such a margin under any circumstances but I'm grasping at the bigger picture. I feel Lambert simply viewed last night as an opportunity to help hitherto fringe players get up to speed for the campaign ahead. I'm not so sure it's as dramatic as him opting for Premiership survival in September but more a case of him trying to get the squad as match ready as possible in order to finish as high up the table as possible. Lambert's paid to take these types of decisions and gambles and from what I have seen of him so far he strikes me as a shrewd operator.
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I think the argument about 'resting' players and giving players a break who have knocks proves one thing.
Our squad is woefully short on experience and ability.
Yet when they are given experience there is criticism.
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I don't have any problem with Lambert resting players, if he thinks it's a good idea.
But whatever side he picks, it should have a more coherent game plan than the one he sent out last night.
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we are all pissed off, no one likes to loose especially in last nights fashion and particularly at home.
In hindsight I can not understand why I thought we would give them a go !
Some good retrospective observations and comments.
Ozzjam, I go along with your view, if these signings are building blocks the next influx of players need proven class and able to step into the 1st team as proven players.
As much as I support the (I hope it is a plan) plan, I find it hard to understand why we do not have a leader in the team, all successful teams have a go to player. we do not have one,
We need a grizzled pro in there to pull us together.
My Everton mates are over the moon with Barry.
And if it is not asking too much please, a Fucking plan to win at home.
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Just about calmed down after another woeful home display - If clubs are insistent on playing weakened sides in this competition and the FA Cup they should at least let season ticket holders in for free. If you are charging customers to watch a competetive match you should at least provide just that - I realise prices were cheaper last night - does that mean the club is therefore entitled to provide below par entertainment? When I pay to watch Aston Villa FC I expect to watch them compete and try and win a game and not surrender before a ball is kicked - I was concerned that Lambert was taking a" half arsed" approach to this game and I was criticised for that - I was wrong - he wasn`t even a "quarter arsed".
Last night was a poor performance, by a poor team managed by a less than impressive manager. Hopefully things will improve as the season progresses however I am already regretting buying a season ticket as the two home games I have watched (I was on holiday for the Liverpool game) have been extremely poor.
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Whichever way you look at this, they have opted for Premier League survival in September ahead of a good cup run.
What make you say that?
Because of the way the manager downplayed the importance of the fixture before it. At best, they are planning for mid table, because I doubt seriously with the squad they have they go any higher. I don't blame the manager if that is his remit, however, if that is the case, the owner needs to explain what is going to happen to the £60m per annum the club is set to gain from the new deal.
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Id rather take the cup games seriously and play the reserves against the top 3/4... We will get twatted on saturday whatever team we have out...
exactly - they will twat us with the first team anyway
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Everton got crucified on the radio tonight for playing a softer side especially when the presenter said 'Everton wont be going down , so why did they do it , very disappointing from Martinez , ' I mean he even won the cup last season which probably got him the job.
We did not even get a mention , obviously expect us to be in relegation battle then.
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Id rather take the cup games seriously and play the reserves against the top 3/4... We will get twatted on saturday whatever team we have out...
exactly - they will twat us with the first team anyway
And again exactly. Let's play percentages game in the league for now and play to win in cup ties.
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I just remember when cups were tangible and worth winning. 18 years.
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I see Small Heath have put their 2nd team out tonight and coasted to 3-0 win over the cup winners Swansea.
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That's the thing...best match I've ever been too... Tranmere - League Cup Semi Final... Best day out Man U League Cup Final.... I feel for the generations of Villa fans that have never seen us win a thing.
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I see Small Heath have put their 2nd team out tonight and coasted to 3-0 win over the cup winners Swansea.
Its because they're a great side.
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Hull Tiggers at home in the 4th round is what we missed.
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Everton got crucified on the radio tonight for playing a softer side especially when the presenter said 'Everton wont be going down , so why did they do it , very disappointing from Martinez , ' I mean he even won the cup last season which probably got him the job.
We did not even get a mention , obviously expect us to be in relegation battle then.
The reason we didn't get a mention tonight is probably because we weren't playing tonight.
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Everton got crucified on the radio tonight for playing a softer side especially when the presenter said 'Everton wont be going down , so why did they do it , very disappointing from Martinez , ' I mean he even won the cup last season which probably got him the job.
We did not even get a mention , obviously expect us to be in relegation battle then.
The reason we didn't get a mention tonight is probably because we weren't playing tonight.
That and we don't seem to exist to some radio stations. Unless we directly affect another club, such as anyone from the top 6 beating us or failing to sign our star player.
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Everton also played on Tuesday.
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If we'd not had the injuries and knocks we'd have put out a side that included a few players you wouldn't normally see on a weekend, with a smattering of our bigger players. Something similar to what Spurs did. Last nights team with either Gabby or Beteke in it could've looked quite a lot different, but as it was, we couldn't really risk wiping Weimman out too! It was the injuries that took this selection from a normal early round league up side to a side we barely recognised, and who, seemed to barely recognised each other.
For me, I could see 10 minutes in that it wasn't our night, & kind of relaxed into watching a reserve game & seeing what different individuals have to offer.
When you lose 2 goals in he last 5 minutes of a cup tie, it really doesn't make any difference - it happens because you may as well push up. The fact that so many walked out on 85 mins when the 3rd went in, shows that despite what people say, they thought we could still be in it till then. I actually laughed & said 'Were you all waiting for the big comeback?' I wasn't, I was still there because as he game went on I saw some improvement, both in individual performances and in shape - I like watching my team develop, try stuff out - I sometimes think I'm not supposed to be into football because my tolerance of failure is pretty high! I like the journey, not just the destination - i used to think this was what it was about for non-glory hunters. Now I'm not
so sure.
If I'm annoyed its that it was sold @£20 on the basis of it being a more attractive fixture than Rotherham, yet it played out like a reserve match. The result, I just saw as an inevitable result of things not going for us on the run up to this game.
I don't know how people align rage with 'years of underachievement' with endless shock at nights like this. This is where we have been for a while now, we aren't going to bounce back overnight. If we don't stick with something, sometime, then we aren't bouncing back at all. There is no managerial genius out there who is taking us back to the top in 18 months. If there is someone that good, I am afraid they will have better offers than us.
I agree with everything in here except that I think PL is actually a managerial genius.