Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Off Topic => Sports Arena => Topic started by: paul_e on September 07, 2013, 06:28:52 PM
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Might as well get it started as it's the opening weekend.
I'm looking forward to this season, there seem to be a lot of teams who could make the playoffs, I think it might be a fair bit more competitive than we've seen.
I've caught a couple of games so far, last night bath looked comfy away at newcastle, and today there was a belter between wasps and quins 2 teams who clearly aren't quite into the season yet but it finished 15-16 with Goode (at Wasps) hitting the post with a conversion attempt after the 80 after quins had opened a 6 point lead with a try after 71mins. Really good game despite the errors.
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Might as well get it started as it's the opening weekend.
I'm looking forward to this season, there seem to be a lot of teams who could make the playoffs, I think it might be a fair bit more competitive than we've seen.
I've caught a couple of games so far, last night bath looked comfy away at newcastle, and today there was a belter between wasps and quins 2 teams who clearly aren't quite into the season yet but it finished 15-16 with Goode (at Wasps) hitting the post with a conversion attempt after the 80 after quins had opened a 6 point lead with a try after 71mins. Really good game despite the errors.
At times i am a complete twit!!!!
Why did i open this post!!
Been watching cricket so i decided to record 2nd half of Wasps game which i am watching now....currently 10-9 to Wasps.....As i say i am a prat!!!
Sale surprised me though with thar result at Gloucester. I shall record Warriors at Tigers tomorrow as priority is Stan's game on BT2.
10-14 now try just scored!!!!
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Might as well get it started as it's the opening weekend.
I'm looking forward to this season, there seem to be a lot of teams who could make the playoffs, I think it might be a fair bit more competitive than we've seen.
I've caught a couple of games so far, last night bath looked comfy away at newcastle, and today there was a belter between wasps and quins 2 teams who clearly aren't quite into the season yet but it finished 15-16 with Goode (at Wasps) hitting the post with a conversion attempt after the 80 after quins had opened a 6 point lead with a try after 71mins. Really good game despite the errors.
At times i am a complete twit!!!!
Why did i open this post!!
Been watching cricket so i decided to record 2nd half of Wasps game which i am watching now....currently 10-9 to Wasps.....As i say i am a prat!!!
Sale surprised me though with thar result at Gloucester. I shall record Warriors at Tigers tomorrow as priority is Stan's game on BT2.
10-14 now try just scored!!!!
Sorry... :(
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Poor start for Glos again. Not won on opening day since 2009.
You can have all the flair in the backs you like but with no ball from the front five you will struggle.
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The "Mighty Lyd" won their first game of the season against Old Patesians 42-17.
This is the first time that we've ever been this low in the league structure. We've probably been the most boring team since the leagues started. We began in the division above where we are now and popped up into the division above that for a couple of seasons, but that's as far as we've moved.
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Was in kenya last week and caught the last20 minutes of somone v ithink Otago. itwas great.Something like a 6 point deficit for I think Otago and constant pressure and some great defence led to a try for Otago. They missed the kick so were still 2 behind. From the kick-off they bullied the home teamagain pushing them back with about one minute on the clock they get a penalty. My 11 month-old was crawling aroundthe tv and pulled something and the screen went blank. Still no idea how it ended.
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Warriors took one hell of a beating at Tigers....32-15...but it was worse than that score suggests.
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Warriors took one hell of a beating at Tigers....32-15...but it was worse than that score suggests.
On paper worcester looked weak and from the bits I saw today (I was watching the petrov game mostly) they're as poor as I expected. I think worcester and Newcastle could end up a bit adrift at the bottom.
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I spent a few years playing seconds at Old Pats, between football, when I was younger. Well, young.
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Seems to be a real argument rewing regarding the European competitions. I can understand where the French and English clubs are coming from (especially when it comes to both Scottish and Italian teams getting automatic qualification in to the Heineken Cup), but it would be a shame to see a great tournament disappear.
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Seems to be a real argument rewing regarding the European competitions. I can understand where the French and English clubs are coming from (especially when it comes to both Scottish and Italian teams getting automatic qualification in to the Heineken Cup), but it would be a shame to see a great tournament disappear.
It would be a shame but the rfu and ffr are both right to stand their ground on this, the qualification from the rabodirect is silly with them effectively getting 11 of the 24 spots in a 12 team league, with no relegation. Reduce the number of teams in it by 4 (to 20), give each league 6 spots with 1 extra for the winners Heineken cup and another for the winners of the Amlin cup. Add the 4 spots you took away to the amlin cup and potentially look to extend that competition further anyway to bring in club in the smaller nations, or add a third tier for them with the winners moving into the amlin.
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Cardiff Blues 9 - 7 Connaught latest
Ulster 9=6 Glasgow latest
Quins v Saints just starting could be a cracker
Sale v Newcastle 20:00
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Torrential rain spoiling it 3 - 3 HT
Sale winning 11-3 v Newcatle but not HT there.
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It appears to be a bit damp under foot at The Stoop
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It appears to be a bit damp under foot at The Stoop
It is rather isn't it, lots of standing water. A bit of rugby from Saints to score the try...6-13 with about 8 to go.
Sale beating Newcastle 14-12 oh hold on scratch that Newcastle winning 15-14 now. If Newcastle win this it won't do Warriors many favours!!!
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It appears to be a bit damp under foot at The Stoop
It is rather isn't it, lots of standing water. A bit of rugby from Saints to score the try...6-13 with about 8 to go.
Sale beating Newcastle 14-12 oh hold on scratch that Newcastle winning 15-14 now. If Newcastle win this it won't do Warriors many favours!!!
quins vs saints was a great game given the conditions, Wood and Foden outclassed Robshaw and Brown and Burrell was quality, nailed on man of the match, the competition in the centres for England is frightening, there are 5-6 guys that you can't leave out right now, lovely to see all the depth that's appearing for us. The next world cup might be a season too early but we're going to dominate the northern hemisphere for years soon, I can see us and NZ making a pretty big gap at the top before long.
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It appears to be a bit damp under foot at The Stoop
It is rather isn't it, lots of standing water. A bit of rugby from Saints to score the try...6-13 with about 8 to go.
Sale beating Newcastle 14-12 oh hold on scratch that Newcastle winning 15-14 now. If Newcastle win this it won't do Warriors many favours!!!
quins vs saints was a great game given the conditions, Wood and Foden outclassed Robshaw and Brown and Burrell was quality, nailed on man of the match, the competition in the centres for England is frightening, there are 5-6 guys that you can't leave out right now, lovely to see all the depth that's appearing for us. The next world cup might be a season too early but we're going to dominate the northern hemisphere for years soon, I can see us and NZ making a pretty big gap at the top before long.
Newcastle held on to win 15-14.
All Blacks v South Africa on at 08:35 in morning.
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That's a big win for Newcastle, I thought they'd struggle this season but fair play to Richards, he's got them playing as a solid unit, I guess it was 5 kicks which means the creativity might still be a problem though, which was my concern looking at their squad.
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I spent a few years playing seconds at Old Pats, between football, when I was younger. Well, young.
How long ago was that C-Lion ?
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Hmmm, Australia lucky to beat Argentina this morning.
The Lions success looks less and less impressive, and to lose a match is looking pretty poor now.
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"We are top of the league, we are top of the league"
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I haven't seen any highlights or read any reports but that was a shite result for Worcester Warriors yesterday....only 2 games gone and already i think favourites for the drop. They have to beat London Irish at home!! They failed simple as that.
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Sarries vs Glaws - Nick wood red card after 70 seconds for stamping on Berger's head, right in front of the ref, utterly stupid.
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Sarries vs Glaws - Nick wood red card after 70 seconds for stamping on Berger's head, right in front of the ref, utterly stupid.
Despite that 10-12 glaws in the lead, Burns has been immaculate, 12trees and Trinder have been very good as well. For Sarries Billy V is looking like a beast and their pack are dominant but they're making a lot of handling errors.
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Numbers made the difference in the end and sarries take the 5 points, Barnes made a couple of very harsh calls against glaws though, particularly to give a yellow against glaws for pulling down the maul (right decision) but then no yellow for wigglesworth 10 minutes later for blatantly cutting out quick ball at the breakdown when he was offside, definitive professional foul, Wigglesworth actually looked embarrassed not to have been yellow'd. Glaws need to work on their scrum though, they don't seem to know how to handle the new regulations.
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Stourbridge mullered DK on Saturday.
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You ever get the impression its not your year? I do, with Glaws this season.
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You ever get the impression its not your year? I do, with Glaws this season.
They've got the same problem they've had for a while, the front 5 isn't good enough, which is odd given it's been the glaws strength for a long time until the last 7-8years, in Burns they've got the best 10 in the league though, and 12trees and trinder are a superb pairing in the centre, those 3 showed signs of clicking on saturday but 14 men for 79 minutes is a nightmare.
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Only Saints on Saturday!!
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But Cameron tweeted on Tuesday: "It was great to welcome you and the team to No 10. No need to apologise - I know it was just a bit of fun."
That's a pretty decent response from Cameron in relation to the Tuilagi incident. He could have made a lot more fuss.
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Numbers made the difference in the end and sarries take the 5 points, Barnes made a couple of very harsh calls against glaws though, particularly to give a yellow against glaws for pulling down the maul (right decision) but then no yellow for wigglesworth 10 minutes later for blatantly cutting out quick ball at the breakdown when he was offside, definitive professional foul, Wigglesworth actually looked embarrassed not to have been yellow'd. Glaws need to work on their scrum though, they don't seem to know how to handle the new regulations.
Oi, no hating on a fellow son of the Forest :D
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Numbers made the difference in the end and sarries take the 5 points, Barnes made a couple of very harsh calls against glaws though, particularly to give a yellow against glaws for pulling down the maul (right decision) but then no yellow for wigglesworth 10 minutes later for blatantly cutting out quick ball at the breakdown when he was offside, definitive professional foul, Wigglesworth actually looked embarrassed not to have been yellow'd. Glaws need to work on their scrum though, they don't seem to know how to handle the new regulations.
Oi, no hating on a fellow son of the Forest :D
I actually really rate Barnes as a ref but I think he was wrong not to give wigglesworth yellow and I think he was very strict with the glaws front row but was letting the sarries hooker have his leg in before the ball went in or the feed to go in to his feet rather than the channel. Given the IRB standpoint on the laws around the scrum I found it a bit disappointing to see. Glaws front row had balance issues, that was obvious but at least they were feeding straight and fair. The quins vs saints game had a few iffy scrums as well, with quins feeding it through very quick so Saints couldn't push them over.
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Sarries vs Glaws - Nick wood red card after 70 seconds for stamping on Berger's head, right in front of the ref, utterly stupid.
Wood gets 8 weeks for the stamp, seems fair, it's the minimum for the offence and he's got a very clean record for a prop, he'll be missed though.
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Stamping has no place in the game, at all.
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Burger was offside twice in that game in the first 70 seconds as well though, unpunished.
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Real tough training session for Hull Ionians under 11's tonight. Good prep for the start of the season. 3 lads, my lad included had to do 2 laps of the pitch extra for not beating their time last Sunday. Josh and Harry got 2 extra laps for talking and poor Harry got 3 extra laps for missing a tackle.
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Burger was offside twice in that game in the first 70 seconds as well though, unpunished.
Indeed he was, and his position for the incident was totally wrong and should have been a penalty, however, you point it out to the ref, you don't stamp on his head. This is part of the problem for a few English sides, they're not good at making sure the ref sees what they want him to, Irish rugby on the other hand is practically built around it.
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And if you do give someone a clout make sure he doesn't see it.
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Lovely first phase try for Glaws vs saints, brilliance in midfield from Burns and 12trees, they've got to be 10 and 12 for the autumn internationals, they've got a great understanding and have started the season superbly (even though Glaws have struggled). Saints leading 10-8, glaws set piece is failing again.
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Glaws 26-24 Saints - One of the best games you'll ever see, the saints try with a minute to go was sublime and then some very controversial calls to give Glaws a penalty 2mins into overtime which 12trees nailed. 2 really good sides who both played their part, brilliant watching.
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We finally won a game at Newcastle.
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If you are into Rugby its The Springboks v The All Blacks this weekend at Ellis Park. It's going to be brutal.
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If you are into Rugby its The Springboks v The All Blacks this weekend at Ellis Park. It's going to be brutal.
I'm looking forward to it, it's the only one of the championship games I really enjoy most years.
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Another home defeat.
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Another home defeat.
If you're talking gloucester as I assume the front 5 were awful again, Burns and 12trees were just totally starved of space by how poor the ball back to them was. It then didn't help that they lost so much confidence in the breakdown that they were standing almost flat ready to deal with the turnover when they should've been trying to hit the ball at pace and use the quality in the backs to create chances. It was a really poor performance but I can't see what they can do other than completely rebuild the front of the pack, from the back row out there is loads of quality but they just don't get the opportunities to show it off.
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Nick Wood is a miss and does a great job but our pack are shite. Well, the front 5 anyway.
Considering what I was brought up watching thats just odd. We used to have the biggest and meanest buggers around.
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It is strange that for years gloucester had a big strong pack but didn't have the quality outside to really step up, now they've got that quality but the pack has gone missing.
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They let the grunt leave in the summer (Big Jim Hamilton) but did not replace it coupled with injury/suspension.
My trip to Munster is going to be a long old weekend.
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Olly Morgan has had to retire at 27. A real shame.
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They let the grunt leave in the summer (Big Jim Hamilton) but did not replace it coupled with injury/suspension.
My trip to Munster is going to be a long old weekend.
The issues in the scrum this year are more technical than anything else, lots of problems with the bind they've been penalised a lot for not driving straight.
Olly Morgan has had to retire at 27. A real shame.
That's really sad news, but it was largely inevitable, without the injury problems he'd have been the best fullback in europe in my opinion, excellent under the high ball, good all round technical skills and very good running into a broken field, he's a big loss to the English game in general, much like Simpson-Daniel who whilst he's still playing doesn't have the wow factor from when he broke through and has never become the genuine world class talent he threatened to be.
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Another home defeat.
I still find it weird to see Gloucester even playing Exeter, let alone losing at home to them.
I can remember when we (ie "The Mighty Lyd") used to play Exeter.
(NB - a that time we wouldn't even have considered giving Worcester a fixture)
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At the risk of being called parochial JSD may be getting older but he had the wow factor for a number of years and was given scant chance by England, probably because he didnt play for a more "fashionable" side. With Morgan I agree that he broke through but injuries got in the way, with JSD he had the skills but was shafted by the England selectors. players who broke through and never made the next step would be the likes of Marcel Garvey, Anthony Allen, Jack Adams etc.
It remains to be seen whether the far more talented Freddie Burns gets the nod over Flood and Farrell - perhaps if Freddie's dad picks the team and he moves to an "establishment club like Harlequins, Saracens or Leicester?
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At the risk of being called parochial JSD may be getting older but he had the wow factor for a number of years and was given scant chance by England, probably because he didnt play for a more "fashionable" side. With Morgan I agree that he broke through but injuries got in the way, with JSD he had the skills but was shafted by the England selectors. players who broke through and never made the next step would be the likes of Marcel Garvey, Anthony Allen, Jack Adams etc.
It remains to be seen whether the far more talented Freddie Burns gets the nod over Flood and Farrell - perhaps if Freddie's dad picks the team and he moves to an "establishment club like Harlequins, Saracens or Leicester?
JSD did get a fair few squad places, invariably then picking up an injury before the games came around, I just think England saw him as too big a risk with all the injuries, which is probably fair. Allen left too soon and suffered from being a bit player at tigers for a year or 2 when he needed to be playing regularly, he had everything to be a very good IC but he got stifled. As a positive note him doing exactly the same to 12trees led to the latter joining Glaws and forming a very effective partnership with Burns.
As for the 10 spot I can see the attraction of Farrell, he does have a very good boot on him and at times he looks like he could become a good player in open play but he's just too eager to kick the ball away for me. Either way Flood wouldn't make the squad for me, Ford has already surpassed him and is firmly my 3rd choice at 10.
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Superb performance from Glaws to beat Perpignan, superb game, and the running line from May for the winning try was pure perfection, he's a big boon coming back because his pace and ball carrying is irreplaceable.
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I'm quite happy with the squad for the Autumn Internationals. The centres look to be pretty exciting and I'm glad to see Foden back. I wouldn't have included Goode to be honest.
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No Ford in the squad. personally would have had Johnny May in over Ashton but I'm just a myopic Glos fan though.
Apparently there are some scientific theories which suggest that there are an infinite number of parallel universes where every eventuality exists, looking at the weekends Heineken fixtures I'm still not sure any of these universes would have anything other than a Munster win.
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I dont fancy us but its all about quick ball. If we get it out fast we will kill them as they arent what they were. Winning up front is easier said than done mind.
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Get Johnny May the ball with space to run into and he can score against anyone, so the game plan for Glaws has to be about finding a way to do exactly that.
On England - Not surprised that Ford isn't included, I think he will replace Flood but not until Burns and Farrell have a few more games onder their belts.
I'm very pleased that Burrell has been called up, he's a very good player and I'm even happier about Trinder who I've had bigs hopes over for years, he's a very good 13 and a much more rounded player than most of our other centre options, however I'm not so sure about Tomkins who I don't think is ready for international rugby.
On form the backs for me would be:
Care, Burns, Wade, Twelvetrees, Eastmond, Yarde, Foden.
The advantage of Twelvetrees is that he is a very effective 10 as well so we could go with a bench of Youngs, Burrell/Trinder, Brown which gives us a lot more options.
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Yay, got me a ticket for the convicts at Twickenham.
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Yay, got me a ticket for the convicts at Twickenham.
Me too :-)
Don't like disagreeing with Paul e as I find his opinions more often than not spot on, but here goes. My backline would be Youngs, Farrell, Twelvetrees, Trinder, Yarde, Ashton and Brown.
As much as I like Freddie he just hasn't been as "at it" this season as last and Farrell, although without the flair of Burns, is easily first choice. I really like Eastmond but he has to get in front of Twelvetrees at inside centre first and although not quite at the standard of last season, I think Billy deserves a shot. I would like Eastmond to be on the bench as I think he could cover centre and outside backs position. THE form 15 is undoubtedly Brown and he did very well in Argentina too. I don't think there is much doubt he will start and I would certainly pick him ahead of Foden at present. I trust he picks wingers on the wing and not full backs, as the folly of that was shown up in Cardiff and in that case, Yarde is shoe in for me.
Very excited about the upcoming games and hopeful of 2/3 minimum. I didn't think we had a prayer against NZ last year and we won and I think this team is better than last years, so who knows. Kiwis are better too mind :-(
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Yay, got me a ticket for the convicts at Twickenham.
Me too :-)
Don't like disagreeing with Paul e as I find his opinions more often than not spot on, but here goes. My backline would be Youngs, Farrell, Twelvetrees, Trinder, Yarde, Ashton and Brown.
As much as I like Freddie he just hasn't been as "at it" this season as last and Farrell, although without the flair of Burns, is easily first choice. I really like Eastmond but he has to get in front of Twelvetrees at inside centre first and although not quite at the standard of last season, I think Billy deserves a shot. I would like Eastmond to be on the bench as I think he could cover centre and outside backs position. THE form 15 is undoubtedly Brown and he did very well in Argentina too. I don't think there is much doubt he will start and I would certainly pick him ahead of Foden at present. I trust he picks wingers on the wing and not full backs, as the folly of that was shown up in Cardiff and in that case, Yarde is shoe in for me.
Very excited about the upcoming games and hopeful of 2/3 minimum. I didn't think we had a prayer against NZ last year and we won and I think this team is better than last years, so who knows. Kiwis are better too mind :-(
I'm all for disagreements so it's all good.
Half backs:
There's nothing between Care and Youngs so for me it's a throw of a dice. I actually think Dickson is better suited to our side but I've accepted that England will pick someone quicker around the fringes for the extra threat.
Burns over Farrell is a team thing for me, against Argentina the whole team worked better, that we were playing a depleted side that were probably on a similar level to Italy was a factor, but the 'intent' was to use the backs. The game between Gloucester and Sarries summed them up for me, for 50minutes Burns was a class above Farrell, but then the extra man started to count and sarries started to get the penalties for Farrell to kick them to victory, and as soon as he started kicking them his confidence grew and Burns ended up completely starved of the ball.
Centres:
13 is a tough position as we don't really have an experienced option in the squad, and the 'window' for someone to make an impression there is pretty small. I really rate Trinder and, as said, I think he's a genuine complete 13 but I'm not sure if he'll be able to have much impact in this series. Eastmond however has the pace and running lines to really cement himself in the squad, but the form of twelvetrees is such that 12 should be out of the question. I would be happy with either though, and I wouldn't mind seeing if Burrell and 12trees could make a pairing as well, there's just lots of options in there, and injuries to Barritt and Manu have given us the opportunity to use them.
Outside backs:
Wade was exceptional against the argies and really should've been in the 2nd game but for a really poor decision by the lions to call him up on the day of a game. On the back of that I judge that spot as his and I don't think anyone else has done enough to take it away (although I'd be very tempted by Johnny May who is equally explosive but not called up).
At fullback I've made no attempt to hide the fact that I don't think Brown has it to play at the highest level, I just think he's one of those players who looks better than he is at club level and not as good as he is at international level. It hasn't been helped by him being on the wing so often for England but I just don't trust him. I also think Foden has been marginally the better of the 2 in the league so far. On top of that the more important reason for me is that I think the Ashton/Foden combination was the one bright spark under Johnno and whilst Ashton has had his chance to fit with the new side (and struggled to find a place) I don't think Foden has for one reason or another.
I do think Foden and Brown both need 3-4 starts this season to prove they deserve their place so actually either or is ok by me so long as the other does get a chance and, if they both take that chance, I'd probably leave Goode out next summer and go for someone a little more exciting (May currently but I have high hopes for Watson now he's starting regularly at Bath).
In the forwards I think 6 and 7 are even tougher to call than the centres, I'd go Wood and Kvesic personally.
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Following relegation last season "The Mighty Lyd" are playing in SSE National League Three South West.
As if having Worcester's amateur team in the league wasn't bizarre enough, tomorrow we play Amersham & Chiltern.
How can they be in a South West league ? They have a Tube Station fer fecks sake !!
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Stourbridge have won every game again so far. Lets hope they dont screw it up like last year.
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No Ford in the squad. personally would have had Johnny May in over Ashton but I'm just a myopic Glos fan though.
Apparently there are some scientific theories which suggest that there are an infinite number of parallel universes where every eventuality exists, looking at the weekends Heineken fixtures I'm still not sure any of these universes would have anything other than a Munster win.
Glaws right in the game at half time, Robson has been superb, I've been a fan since he was with the England schoolboys he just such a clever player at 9. Having Twelvetrees and Trinder both out has weakened them going forward unfortunately. If it's still close with 20 to go I can see Burns coming on and them really going for it.
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No Ford in the squad. personally would have had Johnny May in over Ashton but I'm just a myopic Glos fan though.
Apparently there are some scientific theories which suggest that there are an infinite number of parallel universes where every eventuality exists, looking at the weekends Heineken fixtures I'm still not sure any of these universes would have anything other than a Munster win.
Glaws right in the game at half time, Robson has been superb, I've been a fan since he was with the England schoolboys he just such a clever player at 9. Having Twelvetrees and Trinder both out has weakened them going forward unfortunately. If it's still close with 20 to go I can see Burns coming on and them really going for it.
I'm fuming about that game Paul. Firstly the coach should be ashamed of picking such a weak team for a massive European game. That is a game that a full strength Gloucester could have won, they may not have, but the chance was there. Too effectively surrender it goes right against the grain and although not a Gloucester fan per se, I can't imagine what the natives think?
Going back to your England selection, you make a compelling argument on all fronts and I wouldn't be upset to see your backline operating. I do feel that mine will be closer to what Lancaster picks however? He is that little bit conservative, as all England coaches except SCW are and I feel he will do the same this time
Certainly the Aussie game, having watched a little bit today, will be harder than I envisaged. I still feel that minimum 2/3 is what we should be targeting.
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I think Davies put out a weaker side to give himself a get out for the defeat.
We were in it until the late try so makes you wonder what might have been.
The locals were quite nervous as well - not the strongest ever Munster side.
A cracking weekend nonetheless.
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What I find difficult whenever I watch anyone play Munster at Thomond Park is how the refs all seem to buy into the myth. Yesterday Munster did everything to slow down the breakdown, with hands in the ruck, tacklers not letting go of the player once he was tackled, coming in from the side, or off their feet, oh and feeding the scrum and line-out. The only one I saw punished was when O'Connell came in from the side and off his feet, right in front of the ref. On the other hand he gave 7-8 penalties against Gloucester for the same things.
I get very annoyed by it, the all blacks get similar treatment internationally it's clearly a sub-concious thing, and I'm convinced it's to do with the way they talk to the ref but I hate seeing it. For an example watch the line out that they pushed over for the first try, the front man caught in front of his chest, there is no chance it was even remotely straight, but no one seemed to notice, not even the pundits/commentators. The reverse was, early in the 2nd half Gloucester had a line out which was straight but caught in the wind and drifted to their side, and the ref gave it as not straight, and again, no one complained.
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Think Davies was hedging his bets somewhat on the team selection. We have Bath in the league next week.
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There was a great brawl in the Lyd v Amersham game on Saturday. It started on the pitch, proceeded to a giant puddle on the touch line and ended up with some players being chased round the back of a stand.
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To go back to the Brown/Foden debate, Foden seems to have been released to his club, so probably won't feature next week, scoring 2 tries is probably the best possible response to that.
This weekend also sees Burns, Kvesic, Eastmond and Burrell all play for their club, looks like we might see England revert back to the negative stuff of the 6N rather than continue the open attacking play from the summer, which is hugely frustrating.
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To go back to the Brown/Foden debate, Foden seems to have been released to his club, so probably won't feature next week, scoring 2 tries is probably the best possible response to that.
This weekend also sees Burns, Kvesic, Eastmond and Burrell all play for their club, looks like we might see England revert back to the negative stuff of the 6N rather than continue the open attacking play from the summer, which is hugely frustrating.
Yeah it would be hugely annoying if they reverted to type. They really should not only be looking to beat an average (at best) Australia, but winning convincingly in an entertaining manner.
I for one won't regard a 12-9 type victory next week any sort of success
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A bit like the victory the cheating Bath ****** got last night. Wayne Barnes was an absolute disgrace.
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To go back to the Brown/Foden debate, Foden seems to have been released to his club, so probably won't feature next week, scoring 2 tries is probably the best possible response to that.
This weekend also sees Burns, Kvesic, Eastmond and Burrell all play for their club, looks like we might see England revert back to the negative stuff of the 6N rather than continue the open attacking play from the summer, which is hugely frustrating.
Let's see how we play before saying we are back to the negative Six Nations form. I would be very happy if we replicated the Scotland game, which wasn't particularly negative. Granted our performances got worse after though.
I think the players are better than they were a year or so ago and I believe there is a different mindset as well, a willingness to attack and go for it. Can't deny I am particularly upset to see that Kvesic won't get a run out, but I think the Brown's, Farrell's, Twelvetrees and Yarde's deserve their chance. I also think Ashton is now getting back to where he should be so while unfortunate for Wade, I think he deserves to stay in. However, he now knows that he has competition breathing down his neck so he has to keep his standards up.
Only player I am really struggling with is the proposed selection of Tomkins. That I just don't understand
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To go back to the Brown/Foden debate, Foden seems to have been released to his club, so probably won't feature next week, scoring 2 tries is probably the best possible response to that.
This weekend also sees Burns, Kvesic, Eastmond and Burrell all play for their club, looks like we might see England revert back to the negative stuff of the 6N rather than continue the open attacking play from the summer, which is hugely frustrating.
Let's see how we play before saying we are back to the negative Six Nations form. I would be very happy if we replicated the Scotland game, which wasn't particularly negative. Granted our performances got worse after though.
I think the players are better than they were a year or so ago and I believe there is a different mindset as well, a willingness to attack and go for it. Can't deny I am particularly upset to see that Kvesic won't get a run out, but I think the Brown's, Farrell's, Twelvetrees and Yarde's deserve their chance. I also think Ashton is now getting back to where he should be so while unfortunate for Wade, I think he deserves to stay in. However, he now knows that he has competition breathing down his neck so he has to keep his standards up.
Only player I am really struggling with is the proposed selection of Tomkins. That I just don't understand
Tomkins is the one that makes me think he's not really learnt from the summer, Tomkins has a lot of potential but at the minute he's just a battering ram.
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So Burrell, Trinder and Eastmond sent back and Tomkins likely to play all 80, all 3 are far more rounded centres but Tomkins tackles well
Burns sent back and Flood retained despite Burns having started the season superbly in partnership with the obvious choice at 12
Kvesic sent back despite giving us a new dimension in Argentina
Wade effectively punished for his Lions call up by being left out
I'm already not looking forward to this weekend, he's making the same mistakes as last year and right now I can't see us getting anything on saturday. The game plan will be to batter them up front and kick for territory, I genuinely dream of the day when a england side is picked to play aus or NZ at their own game and generate quick ball at the breakdown and retain possession for the quick guys outside, it will happen eventually, we have the players for it but the coaches are all 20 years out of date.
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I'm not sure Lancaster is out of date, quite a lot of his thinking is really innovative. He's also looked to Rugby League to improve our skills on the ball, so I don't think he's negative. Yes he's sent Wade back, but he's brought Yarde into the fold and Yarde is a great attacking talent and defensively questionable. Goode has gone, and Brown is no longer being employed as a defensive wing option. I agree I'd like to have seen one of the other centres on the bench, but in Kvesic's case it's better for him to play a full game this weekend. He plays in the same position as Robshaw so is unlikely to get on the pitch.
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I'm not sure Lancaster is out of date, quite a lot of his thinking is really innovative. He's also looked to Rugby League to improve our skills on the ball, so I don't think he's negative. Yes he's sent Wade back, but he's brought Yarde into the fold and Yarde is a great attacking talent and defensively questionable. Goode has gone, and Brown is no longer being employed as a defensive wing option. I agree I'd like to have seen one of the other centres on the bench, but in Kvesic's case it's better for him to play a full game this weekend. He plays in the same position as Robshaw so is unlikely to get on the pitch.
His ideas are still based on territorial dominance, which has a time and a place, but he's picking a squad to enable that at the expense of explosive breaking and finishing. Effectively hope to push over a few tries but if not always be range so Farrell can kick us to a win. The reason it's dated is that the fitness levels in the professional era mean that there are generally 7-8 players in any decent international squad who can breakaway and score from their own half, either alone or as a group and players like Burns, Trinder/Eastmond and Wade are our 'aces' in replicating that, as is only really Foden, Youngs and Yarde have that explosive potential, the 23 is too 'safe' for my liking.
I doubt we will get hammered by anyone, but we also probably won't do any hammering either. In real terms I think an autumn of matches won with the boot is in the offing and I think the players we have are capable of producing something much more convincing. I want to see us put down a marker in the next 12 months to show that we intend to win the world cup in England, I don't think this squad does that, one with the likes of Wade, Burns, Eastmond, Trinder, Kvesic, May, etc might do.
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I am hoping that as we moved forward over the next year that Burns/Ford, Kvesic, Wade, Eastmond/Trinder and Lawes become more and more central to the team.
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It's a pretty young side we're playing, I'm looking for to Billy playing at number 8.
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It's a pretty young side we're playing, I'm looking for to Billy playing at number 8.
I'm not too upset by most of the side, the 3 key decisions were vunipola/marler, lawes/attwood and dickson/youngs; he's made the right choice for all of them (personally I'd have started Hartley as he's been exceptional this year and Tom Youngs is good as an impact sub, but it's a 50/50 so no issues there). I still think there's a lot of pressure on twelvetrees to make things happen for the backs because of his conservative choices at 10 and 13, that's the crucial area for me, and whilst you can argue for Farrell with his kicking Tomkins getting the nod because of his defence just doesn't sit well with me, it's all a bit too similar to Brad Barritt last year for my liking.
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I actually think Tomkins is getting a bad rap, he's actually got excellent hands and I think a pretty skillful player from what I've seen.
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I actually think Tomkins is getting a bad rap, he's actually got excellent hands and I think a pretty skillful player from what I've seen.
He has the potential to be a good player, as you say he offloads pretty well and ships the ball along the line ok but he has very little impact on the game. Watch the highlights of all the sarries games from this season and you won't notice him, whereas Trinder, Eastmond and Burrell feature heavily in the the highlights for the games they play. That's largely my point, Tomkins would be fine as the steadying influence outside 2 creative options, but with Farrell at 10 you really need 2 centres who can spark something in the game. Fundamentally I find it incredible that half of our backs come from the most forward-centric side in the league.
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Any predictions for tomorrow then?
I'll go with England by 6 points.
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England 12-9 Australia
Pretty uninspiring selection.
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england 15 -14
5 kicked penalties despite bossing the territory. I can't imagine them not getting a try and a few pens of their own.
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Worcester vs Bath this evening, another game with flashes of brilliance from Anthony Watson, excellent covering tackle to bundle his man into touch behind the line, 3-4 bit of pace and footwork beyond anyone else in England and steady under the high ball in truly vile conditions for the backs. If you want to see the making of a genuine world class superstar I suggest following him closely. I really wouldn't be surprised if he's right in the mix for a world cup place in 2 years.
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Early days. Farrell is kicking like a drain. They cant scrummage for toffee.
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First half has gone almost exactly as I expected other than Farrell has failed at the 1 thing that's getting him into the side. We have no threat with the ball in hand other than Billy V who can bash through anyone. This is what i mean by out of date rugby.
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Really poor first half. When you're that dominant in the scrum, but have absolutely zero creativity behind it, then surely the penny has to drop for Lancaster.
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Yarde showing some flair there, and a try for Robshaw.
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Dynamic try from Farrell.
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Important win for England there, take your wins and then build performance.
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Happy with the result, but not the performance particularly, we scored twice, which was nice but one was a sucker punch and the other was the result of some shockingly lax play from australia (good break and finish from Farrell though).
Lawes and Launchbury looked good together, back row all played well, front row was good but Youngs had some throwing issues early on.
Dickson did what he was there to do and got the ball out quick but we largely didn't want to play in the open so Farrell kicked away a lot of possession, Farrell also had a very ropey first half, credit for coming out in the 2nd half and looking much better. in the centres twelvetrees was anonymous in attack and made a couple of mistakes in defence, Tomkins was also anonymous but tackled better. Yarde and Ashton did well despite both getting done a few times and, to give him his due, Brown played very well, it's the first time I've seen him look mentally capable of playing at this level, Billy V should've got man of the match though, he was at the centre of everything we did well.
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Yep, a win but an average at best performance.
I do like the look of the pack now. Problem is it seems much more dynamic than the backs.
Get Wade in next week, and possibly Burrell.
I do prefer Ben Youngs at scrum half also
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Brown was excellent today.
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Yep, a win but an average at best performance.
I do like the look of the pack now. Problem is it seems much more dynamic than the backs.
Get Wade in next week, and possibly Burrell.
I do prefer Ben Youngs at scrum half also
Ben Youngs works better with Flood or Farrell at 10, if we pick Dickson we need a 10 with the vision to make the most of the quicker ball they'll get, Burns is that man, but despite his good tour in Argentina and fine start to the season the none performances of the glaws front 5 have cost him a place in the match day squad.
I agree on Wade, we need some dynamism in the backs, I'd give eastmond a shot at 13 as well. For 12 Twelvetrees deserves another chance but if he doesn't perform next week I agree we should look at Burrell who is the form centre in the league.
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Any predictions for tomorrow then?
I'll go with England by 6 points.
OK by 7. A win is a win and against the convicts worth so much more. Could have been by 16 points had Farrel put his kicking boots on. Scrum solid,
lineout very average.
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Any predictions for tomorrow then?
I'll go with England by 6 points.
OK by 7. A win is a win and against the convicts worth so much more. Could have been by 16 points had Farrel put his kicking boots on. Scrum solid,
lineout very average.
The line out was fine after the first 3-4, genereally we were fine in all of the set plays, if was after that where we looked short of quality.
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Twelvetrees was really disappointing today, which makes for some difficult decisions next week. I think Ashton and Yarde did pretty well over all. It's one of those games where it's just good to get out with a win, also to shut out Australia completely in the second half was impressive.
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Brown was excellent today.
For a ******
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Twelvetrees was really disappointing today, which makes for some difficult decisions next week. I think Ashton and Yarde did pretty well over all. It's one of those games where it's just good to get out with a win, also to shut out Australia completely in the second half was impressive.
Ashton seriously? I toughs he was atrocious. Yarde also looked a little like a rabbit caught in the headlights.
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Twelvetrees was really disappointing today, which makes for some difficult decisions next week. I think Ashton and Yarde did pretty well over all. It's one of those games where it's just good to get out with a win, also to shut out Australia completely in the second half was impressive.
Ashton seriously? I toughs he was atrocious. Yarde also looked a little like a rabbit caught in the headlights.
I don't think you can really judge either of them too much, Yarde had a lovely burst down the wingbeating his man and the fullback before ashley-cooper got across and bundled him out, that glimpse is about the lot for either of them with ball in hand.
As I've said, our gameplan is a direct copy of sarries from the league, be big up front and play for territory and have backs who'll tackle anything that comes at them and punish errors. The issue is the top sides aren't going to gift you tries like farrell's today. Our frist try was decent but came after a very long break and a lucky bounce caught them off guard. Fair play to Robshaw he did really well with the finish but it's not the type of try you build your team to score. They scored from a couple of missed tackles but the first one (ashton) was a direct result of their game plan, which was to tempt someone out of the line with a flat line, they hooked Ashton and nearly got straight through and then a couple of phases on 12trees got his tackle very wrong, but australia had already created the chance and got us defending on the line, we never really did that, and that's my worry.
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Had 24 hours to reflect on my afternoon at Twickenham. At half time I was spewing with the regression into early 90's hoof and chase and although the Aussies didn't do anything particularly outstanding, we deserved to be behind simply for kicking the ball away all of the time.
From 50 mins onwards I was however very impressed with England. It was uncannily like the game this time last year only this time we found a way to get over the line. Most of the forwards played very well and after a couple of dodgy lineouts we got that aspect resolved and as a result, with the extra grunt that Lawes/Launchbury/Attwood provide I hope they don't bring Parling back into the 23. Big well done to Robshaw who I thought had an excellent game with his backrow colleagues Billy and Tom Wood. Obviously if he is fit Corbs comes back and I would start Hartley too, feel Youngs and Mako will be better off the bench.
The backs? Still not sure why Youngs was dropped from 9, we improved so much when he came on. I believe Dickson is an excellent club player but short of international class in my view. Our two scrum halfs should be Youngs and Care for the run to the World Cup. Farrell was very poor first half but all credit to him for a good comeback in the 2nd period. I would still prefer a Burns or Ford or Cipriani but accept it won't happen for the forseeable.
The centres for me were an unmitigated disaster and I wouldn't have either of them in the squad next week. Billy needs to get back to Gloucester and pick his form up if he can. I have no idea what Tomkins brings to the party that Eastmond, Burrell, Trinder don't and I want to see a combination of two of those three next week.
The back three were a mixture of sublime (Brown) and ridiculous (Ashton). I have just seen Christian Wade score two tries v Gloucester yesterday and the time is now, no more waiting. As Sir Clive says, being small didn't stop Billy Whizz so that argument is finished before it has started. Very pleased for Mike Brown and he played as well as I thought.
No win against Australia should be sniffed at, so pleased with the outcome. Little tweaking of the team in the right areas and I shall enjoy my 2nd and final visit to HQ this Saturday
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I largely agree with that dave, the centre was definitely the weak point, I do think twelvetrees was made to look worse by getting nothing from Farrell though.
The 1 bit I'd question is your comments on Dickson. In the team and system we played yesterday Dickson looks very average and we'd be better with the 2 you mentioned, but with a side looking to get the backs more involved in play dickson does a much better job of getting the ball out to the 10 quickly to use the space when defenders are drawn in. The slow ball from 9 and 10 has been englands problem for a long time and the only way to solve that is to pick a pairing for it.
As for 10 I'll let farrell's inclusion go, he's clearly seen as the new Johnny Wilkinson within the rfu so I give up worrying about him, but the idea of Flood coming in as a game changer is just silly, Burns and Cipriani are clearly the 2 you look at to change a game.
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Not overly happy that there's no Wade on the bench and Goode is back on the bench.
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Not overly happy that there's no Wade on the bench and Goode is back on the bench.
1 winger and 3 fullbacks in the 23, very negative. I'm not sure how Yarde deserves to be dropped from the 23 but Tomkins and Ashton get another start each. I feel sorry for Foden being put on the wing when he's the form fullback in the league. I completely disagree with Marler starting. I also note that Burrell still isn't going to get a look despite being the form centre. A lot of the choices here seem to be down to loyalty rather than ability/form. A bench with Flood and Goode as the the replacement backs is pretty uninspired.
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To be fair apparently Wade was going to start but his hamstring tightened up. Also I didn't realise that Foden was starting on the wing, at least that means that Goode is only back in the squad as a temporary measure.
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Yarde is out injured as well, so maybe it's more circumstantial than negative on reflection.
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Yes from what I am led to believe, Wade and Yarde were both going to start on Saturday and I was practically salivating at the prospect. I have a ticket and to find neither now playing has totally deflated me. Happy that we have tweaked the pack and it just shows the strength in depth that we have up front, I think you will find Corbs will be eased back in this week and start against NZ. Having the likes of Dan Cole on the bench must make us the envy of the rest of the world?
I have just seen the Lancaster press conference and understand the selection a little more in the fact that he wants to pick from players who have trained all week and not just pluck a Sinbad, May, Sharples or Monye out of the air for example. However, if Wade and Yarde were injured or doubts why in gods name did he let Anthony Watson go back to Bath? If he was on the bench instead of Goode that would cover both full back and wing. If Ashton gets levelled by a Puma and is injured after 5 mins, we are left with a back 3 of Foden, Brown and Goode??? Jesus wept !!!. I do disagree on Foden Paul, Brown deserves a run and is for me the form full back
So in summary I like what Lancaster is doing in the forwards and we are getting to the point where we could pick two decent packs and half of a third. I would like a Kvesic, Wallace, Fraser in their somewhere but he is doing all right. However I am getting depressed with the lack of flair and excitement in the backline. SCW said last week that he wanted players who could get 82k people off their seats and going nuts. There isn't one of those in the backline or in the substitute backs. He really does have to grasp the nettle and go for it next week v NZ. We won't win the World Cup kicking penalty goals.
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Yarde is out injured as well, so maybe it's more circumstantial than negative on reflection.
To an extent, but Yarde was struggling all week apparently so I don't see why you'd keep a very 1-paced Goode and send Eastmond back to his club. If Ashton or Foden pick up a knock we have no cover at all as Brown has shown that he doesn't have the positional sense to play wing and Goode is far too slow to play there.
The bigger issue is we have Goode on the bench who plays 10, we have 12trees starting who can play 10 so why not pick someone to cover the centre or wing on the bench in place of flood (Eastmond or Burrell for example). We also have Foden starting so why pick a fullback on the bench, again eastmond or Burrell in place of Goode is better balanced.
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Yes from what I am led to believe, Wade and Yarde were both going to start on Saturday and I was practically salivating at the prospect. I have a ticket and to find neither now playing has totally deflated me. Happy that we have tweaked the pack and it just shows the strength in depth that we have up front, I think you will find Corbs will be eased back in this week and start against NZ. Having the likes of Dan Cole on the bench must make us the envy of the rest of the world?
I have just seen the Lancaster press conference and understand the selection a little more in the fact that he wants to pick from players who have trained all week and not just pluck a Sinbad, May, Sharples or Monye out of the air for example. However, if Wade and Yarde were injured or doubts why in gods name did he let Anthony Watson go back to Bath? If he was on the bench instead of Goode that would cover both full back and wing. If Ashton gets levelled by a Puma and is injured after 5 mins, we are left with a back 3 of Foden, Brown and Goode??? Jesus wept !!!. I do disagree on Foden Paul, Brown deserves a run and is for me the form full back
So in summary I like what Lancaster is doing in the forwards and we are getting to the point where we could pick two decent packs and half of a third. I would like a Kvesic, Wallace, Fraser in their somewhere but he is doing all right. However I am getting depressed with the lack of flair and excitement in the backline. SCW said last week that he wanted players who could get 82k people off their seats and going nuts. There isn't one of those in the backline or in the substitute backs. He really does have to grasp the nettle and go for it next week v NZ. We won't win the World Cup kicking penalty goals.
I don't have a problem with brown starting, I do think Foden has had a better season but that's subjective, my issue is what effect on Foden's selection it will have if he doesn't have the best of games as a winger.
Your last paragraph sums it up for me, we have a pack to rival anyone in the world, but ours backs are all safety first choices, which I'm very disappointed about, Foden is the only one of them with any spark of quality and he's out of position.
My biggest gripe is the same as yours, we had Eastmond and Watson with the squad, who are both exciting ball carriers, but he sent them both home and now we're stuck with Goode on the bench.
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I'd rather Goode was completely out of the squad and we had an exciting back on the bench.
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If Ashton gets levelled by a Puma and is injured after 5 mins, we are left with a back 3 of Foden, Brown and Goode??? Jesus wept !!!.
That would have to be the most depressing full back/wing combination England had ever put out if it comes to fruition.
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What do you guys see in Ashton that I don't?
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What do you guys see in Ashton that I don't?
If he finds his form and England play the right way he's a devestating try scorer.
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What do you guys see in Ashton that I don't?
17 tries in 35 games at international level and a scoring rate at club level. - STATS (http://www.espnscrum.com/england/rugby/player/27816.html)
Ashton is a fantastic support runner, probably the best England has had in the last 10-15 years, he's not jinky and he's not lightning fast but he will make himself available on a line that cuts through a defence if you get decent possession in the right areas. For all the things that Johnno got wrong one thing he got right was the way he used Ashton. The way Ashton left Saints and they way they used him last season set him back a lot (which is why there are question marks now) but sarries seem to be learning and he's playing his way back into form.
That said Wade and Yarde are the 2 best wingers in the country at the moment so Ashton should be a backup to them rather than a starter. Jamie Elliott at Saints would be my 4th winger at the minute - STATS (http://www.espnscrum.com/england/rugby/player/128540.html) - Like Ashton he scores for fun. Jack Nowell at Exeter is a very exciting talent as well, but he needs to nail down a place at his club and start scoring regularly before he gets in.
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England have been good in the first half, and played at a really good tempo.
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Second half has been really poor so far.
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England have been good in the first half, and played at a really good tempo.
Dickson was excellent in the first half, which is why our tempo was good, that's what he's picked to do.
I still see nothing in Joel Tomkins to suggest he's anything like good enough to be and International.
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This second half has been really disjointed, our intensity and precision has completely vanished.
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This is terrible now, horrible horrible half so far.
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Decent first half, woeful 2nd half so far
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Terribly disjointed and complacent in second half and as paul says Tomkins looks well short.
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Finally Morgan goes over for something positive from second half.
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Well, another win, but the poorness of the second half makes it feel rather hollow. England for some reason abandoned the first half gameplan and tempo, and tried to go too wide too early. That would be fine if you had good wingers and a decent 13. England didn't today.
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Wade definitely needs to come in for Ashton next week, Ashton is trying far too hard at the moment.
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Wade definitely needs to come in for Ashton next week, Ashton is trying far too hard at the moment.
Wade, Yarde and Eastmond/Trinder/Burrell at 11, 13 and 14 for me. Foden (who looked ok but clearly isn't a winger) on the bench with Goode, Ashton and Tomkins dropping out of the 23.
I'd swap Flood for Burns as well to give us a bit more creativity if things get bogged down like today. Forwards are fine but Marler should be 3rd choice behind Corbs and Mako and Cole has to start agianst NZ. Hartley is a level above Youngs and proved it today.
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A great away win at Bracknell today for the Mighty Lyd.
Bracknell are second at the moment so we're starting to pull clear now.
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Lancaster seems to be taking a few pelters in the press after the 2nd half, which is good to see. With the options we have in the backs it's really not good enough to see a team so short of ideas.
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France V New Zealand was an enjoyable game last night.
It showed that the Kiwi's, whilst obviously the best team in the world, are not unbeatable. I think the autumn so far has been just about acceptable from England. All will depend on next Saturday, and the bare minimum acceptable should be a close game where we start to show some signs of flair.
As for Wales? I'm sure they'll win an autumn international one day.
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Wade, Yarde, Corbisiero all out against the All Blacks. I fear for us.
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Tomkins will get another 80minutes to show he's nothing like good enough to play test rugby, yay.
I give up trying to understand his thought processes in selecting a backline, by chance injuries and Lions call ups forced him to play a progressive backline in the summer and we were great to watch and had skill and flair all across the park, with a full compliment to choose from he's gone back to safety first and picked another incredibly forward-centric side. We have an excellent pack, everyone can see that but the backs are probably the weakest in the 6N at the moment, which is poor given the options we have.
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Oh dear.
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We've responded fairly well to their try, but we've got to look at our wide defence.
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Worryingly poor first scrum.
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Our defence is all over the place, complete shambles.
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Tomkins will get another 80minutes to show he's nothing like good enough to play test rugby, yay.
I give up trying to understand his thought processes in selecting a backline, by chance injuries and Lions call ups forced him to play a progressive backline in the summer and we were great to watch and had skill and flair all across the park, with a full compliment to choose from he's gone back to safety first and picked another incredibly forward-centric side. We have an excellent pack, everyone can see that but the backs are probably the weakest in the 6N at the moment, which is poor given the options we have.
He only needed 11 of them to give the ball away in their 22 with numbers with him, hes pretty anonymous right now.
The tactics are totally wrong here.
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That was definitely a try, shocking from TMO.
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Try get in.
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Brilliant work from Tom wood to get the ball back in for Launchbury to score.
The one before was shocking from the officials, definite try.
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Yep it was, NZ are giving away a lot of pens.
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Points for nothing, terrible from Twelvetrees.
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Off you go Kieran.
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Fucking hell Tomkins doesn't appear to be able to catch the ball.
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Good to see Joubert punishing NZ for killing the ball at the breakdown, which has been the cornerstone of their game for years. Tomkins is a liability, he's provided nothing for 2 games and now is actively breaking our continuity.
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16-20 at half time, England have done very very well to fight back here.
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Lawes and Launchbury is the best lock partnership in the world, both have been exceptional today.
Wood and Vunipola are phenomenal in the back row, Robshaw has also played well but he's just not at their level.
Front row has been solid.
Dickson has been superb, directed the packs brilliantly, kept the ball moving and, importantly, has made sure Joubert sees all the niggly shit from NZ.
Outside that there's been some flashes of quality from Foden and Brown but little else. Farrell has had one of those frustrating games where he's been good with the boot from set play but he's just killing all the threat outside. Tomkins has been a complete car crash and Ashton has had nothing to work with which leaves him being judged on his defence, which will never end well.
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Tomkins is offering nothing in defence or attack, we should have had another centre option on the bench.
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Considering they play together at club level, Tomkins and Farrell look like they havent met before.
We causing them allsorts of trouble up front mind.
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Good play by Ashton.
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Lawes is playing like a man possessed right now, he was brilliant first half and he's gone up a level since half time.
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This is a hell of a game.
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Youngs line out is letting us down.
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It's killed us there, that'll be the game I imagine. Piss poor from Youngs.
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Tom Youngs has lost this game.
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It was a very gutsy display, but the Youngs brothers coming on cost us the game. Hartley's line outs were brilliant and Youngs were awful, and Ben Youngs has been rubbish. Lawes, Vunipola, Wood were all magnificent and it was a very credible performance. Tomkins is not an international centre.
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I think both of the Youngs have come on and failed to match the level of the players they replaced to be honest, but largely losing Hartley cost us the chance at the game.
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I think both of the Youngs have come on and failed to match the level of the players they replaced to be honest, but largely losing Hartley cost us the chance at the game.
Yep basically I agree. Overall the pack was excellent and with Vunipola and Corbs coming back it'll only get stronger and we played with great character. Issues to address the Youngs brothers can't come on and play that poorly, they were rubbish. Tomkins offers absolutely nothing defensively or in attack. Ashton actually did better in this game and still has a future. Overall though if we can build on that it's a really good showing.
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Building blocks of an excellent side are definitely there. 3 changes in the backs and we'll have a real shot at winning the WC.
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Building blocks of an excellent side are definitely there. 3 changes in the backs and we'll have a real shot at winning the WC.
Well I'd say a back line of Dixon, Farrell, Burrell/Eastmond, Tuilagi, Wade, Brown and Yarde has a good shout of that. Combine them with the forwards we'd be in with a shout.
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Building blocks of an excellent side are definitely there. 3 changes in the backs and we'll have a real shot at winning the WC.
Well I'd say a back line of Dixon, Farrell, Burrell/Eastmond, Tuilagi, Wade, Brown and Yarde has a good shout of that. Combine them with the forwards we'd be in with a shout.
I agree with that, add a bench of Youngs/Care, Burns and Foden and we'd carry a threat.
the pack just needs to be kept fit, in 2 years time I guarantee every team in the world will be shit scared of facing us, corbs, hartley, cole, lawes, launchbury, wood, robshaw and billy V will go down down as one of the greatest packs of all time, the best bit is that all of that pack could still be playing in 10years (well, probably not Corbs who clearly has major injury problems, but Mako V is a very able replacement).
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Building blocks of an excellent side are definitely there. 3 changes in the backs and we'll have a real shot at winning the WC.
Well I'd say a back line of Dixon, Farrell, Burrell/Eastmond, Tuilagi, Wade, Brown and Yarde has a good shout of that. Combine them with the forwards we'd be in with a shout.
I agree with that, add a bench of Youngs/Care, Burns and Foden and we'd carry a threat.
the pack just needs to be kept fit, in 2 years time I guarantee every team in the world will be shit scared of facing us, corbs, hartley, cole, lawes, launchbury, wood, robshaw and billy V will go down down as one of the greatest packs of all time, the best bit is that all of that pack could still be playing in 10years (well, probably not Corbs who clearly has major injury problems, but Mako V is a very able replacement).
Yeah I think there is plenty more to come from this team and almost in some ways I take more from today's game than the win last year. There is so much more potential for growth. Also Robshaw was pretty bold as a captain today which bodes very well. Morgan's impact off the bench was excellent.
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It was a great atmosphere at Twickenham for a change as well.
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Two good number 8's going for the same jersey is promising. Hartley was out cold, shame really if he stayed on the pitch it would of gone to the wire.
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Bath vs Exeter has been a good game so far today, Bath were 14-0 within 4 minutes with 2 really good tries, 24-3 at half time.
Nowell for Exeter is a very exciting winger, he's got really quick feet so he sneaks through gaps that aren't really there, i think he'll be a top player.
Watson has had a bit of a mixed game, choked when he could've been away and dropped the pass but he's also had a lot of shit thrown out to him where he's had to battle with scraps, late in the half he got it out wide with 10m to go and beat his first man easily but couldn't quite get away from the next tackler, once he gets in the tries and realises how easy it can be for him he'll be a superb player.
George Ford looks every inch an international 10, he's been superb.
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Well the annual Gloucester Harlequins trip ended in the usual defeat but Glos played much of the game with 14, the front 5 held their own and Johnny May was the best player on the pitch. Chin up!
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All you Glos fans need to turn your attention to 20 miles down the A48 where the Mighty Lyd won again yesterday to cement their place at the top of SSE a National 3 SW.
Another Thing to keep an eye on in Gloucestershire is the positions of Hartpury and Zindyferrrd. If Hartpury get promoted, then that might be it for Zindy's period of artificial success.
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Ireland 22-7 New Zealand after 36 mins of 1st half
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Ireland 22-7 New Zealand after 36 mins of 1st half
How? Ireland are woeful
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Ireland 22-7 New Zealand after 36 mins of 1st half
How? Ireland are woeful
Not today apparently I do think the All Blacks have made a few changes from last week
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Sir Clive Woodward, Former England coach and BBC Sport expert
Ireland have played quicker than New Zealand. They've scored three first-half tries, and it's brilliant.
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Unbelievable game that,Ireland were so unlucky to loose at the death
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Watched Bath vs Wasps yesterday rather than the Ireland game, Bath have a lot of quality but I will never understand teams kicking for territory when they have a 20 point lead and 3 tries on the board, that's surely a case where you take the long approach and keep the ball in hand to nudge your way to the line and try to get a bonus point, it was as if they really didn't care and just wanted to get to the end.
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Bloody hell Wade and Yarde out of six nations, that's a huge blow.
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Bloody hell Wade and Yarde out of six nations, that's a huge blow.
Should be a massive blow but I'm not convinced either of them would've got a chance anyway. The brave thing to do to replace them would be to call up Jack Nowell and Anthony Watson, I half expect to see Monye.
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If Moyne plays I'm supporting Italy.
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So, this whole Heineken Cup thing with English clubs. What's the alternative viewpoint on it, other than the clubs looking to power (or possibly more accurately money) grab?
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it's a tough one because getting more money is clearly part of it but the undeniable issues are:
The RaboDirect gets 11 places for 12 teams, with the 1 missing place shared between Ireland and Wales, England and France get 6 guaranteed places between 12 and 14 teams respectively. The key argument here is that, from a qualification point of view, league placing is irrelevant, add on that there is no relegation in the rabodirect and league placing becomes even less of an issue. That means those teams can hold players back for european games whereas the english and french sides can't afford to do the same. Ireland having the strongest sides in the rabodirect coincided well with it's formation to give them a disproportionate amount of wins in recent years.
Financially the commercial revenue is split by union rather than by league so again, club by club, the french and english clubs get less of a share in the revenue than the rabodirect sides.
Finally the structure of the Heineken and Amlin cups is doing nothing to help the developing nations in europe as the amlin in particular is totally dominated by english and french clubs.
The best proposal I've seen was 3tiers of 20 teams with the heineken cup giving 6 places per league, with an additional place for the winners of both the Heineken and Amlin cups. Then the Amlin has 5 teams per major league and 5 spots for 3rd tier leagues, with the finalists both guaranteed a spot. The 3rd tier would then be made up of the top teams from the developing leagues, such as romania, russia, georgia, etc. The 1 issue is that if both of the top tiers are won by clubs from the rabo direct or the english league then they'd be given 13 places for 12 teams but it'd be pretty easy to have some kind of pre-season playoff between the other league and french league for that spot.
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Great explanation Paul. Many thanks
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it's a tough one because getting more money is clearly part of it but the undeniable issues are:
The RaboDirect gets 11 places for 12 teams, with the 1 missing place shared between Ireland and Wales, England and France get 6 guaranteed places between 12 and 14 teams respectively. The key argument here is that, from a qualification point of view, league placing is irrelevant, add on that there is no relegation in the rabodirect and league placing becomes even less of an issue. That means those teams can hold players back for european games whereas the english and french sides can't afford to do the same. Ireland having the strongest sides in the rabodirect coincided well with it's formation to give them a disproportionate amount of wins in recent years.
Financially the commercial revenue is split by union rather than by league so again, club by club, the french and english clubs get less of a share in the revenue than the rabodirect sides.
Finally the structure of the Heineken and Amlin cups is doing nothing to help the developing nations in europe as the amlin in particular is totally dominated by english and french clubs.
The best proposal I've seen was 3tiers of 20 teams with the heineken cup giving 6 places per league, with an additional place for the winners of both the Heineken and Amlin cups. Then the Amlin has 5 teams per major league and 5 spots for 3rd tier leagues, with the finalists both guaranteed a spot. The 3rd tier would then be made up of the top teams from the developing leagues, such as romania, russia, georgia, etc. The 1 issue is that if both of the top tiers are won by clubs from the rabo direct or the english league then they'd be given 13 places for 12 teams but it'd be pretty easy to have some kind of pre-season playoff between the other league and french league for that spot.
Cheers for that. I'm certainly no expert on rugby but it's interesting to see the opposing side of things. The 3 tier proposal seems to have merit to me anyway.
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it's a tough one because getting more money is clearly part of it but the undeniable issues are:
The RaboDirect gets 11 places for 12 teams, with the 1 missing place shared between Ireland and Wales, England and France get 6 guaranteed places between 12 and 14 teams respectively. The key argument here is that, from a qualification point of view, league placing is irrelevant, add on that there is no relegation in the rabodirect and league placing becomes even less of an issue. That means those teams can hold players back for european games whereas the english and french sides can't afford to do the same. Ireland having the strongest sides in the rabodirect coincided well with it's formation to give them a disproportionate amount of wins in recent years.
Financially the commercial revenue is split by union rather than by league so again, club by club, the french and english clubs get less of a share in the revenue than the rabodirect sides.
Finally the structure of the Heineken and Amlin cups is doing nothing to help the developing nations in europe as the amlin in particular is totally dominated by english and french clubs.
The best proposal I've seen was 3tiers of 20 teams with the heineken cup giving 6 places per league, with an additional place for the winners of both the Heineken and Amlin cups. Then the Amlin has 5 teams per major league and 5 spots for 3rd tier leagues, with the finalists both guaranteed a spot. The 3rd tier would then be made up of the top teams from the developing leagues, such as romania, russia, georgia, etc. The 1 issue is that if both of the top tiers are won by clubs from the rabo direct or the english league then they'd be given 13 places for 12 teams but it'd be pretty easy to have some kind of pre-season playoff between the other league and french league for that spot.
True, but the English teams look to share their amount out equally amongst all teams in the league instead of giving teams that are in the HEC a higher amount.
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Leinster vs Saints has been one hell of a first half from Saints, North, Wood and Manoa in particular have all been superb, great game to watch so far. To their credit Leinster have defended as well as anyone I've ever seen.
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Leinster vs Saints has been one hell of a first half from Saints, North, Wood and Manoa in particular have all been superb, great game to watch so far. To their credit Leinster have defended as well as anyone I've ever seen.
Bad to quote myself but that was one of the best games I've ever seen, both sides threw everything at each other and both defended fantastically. Truly brilliant rugby, massive win for saints and the breakaway try denying Leinster was nice as well. It's still a massive task for Saints to qualify from their group but it's good to see that much heart from them.
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Particularly after the home defeat drubbing last week.
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How did Glaws do? 5 points today, which was needed?
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Ha, f'cking lost, having beaten them away.
If we lose to Worcester next week I suspect Davies will come under big pressure.
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Lost at home? Again? To Edinburgh? He should be under pressure now.
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To be fair Edinburgh defended very well, they were really aggressive on gain line and were hitting runners back in the tackle, what glaws needed to do was start manufacturing rolling mauls, the try came from one and they were getting nowhere otherwise.
Also of note, Edinburgh were incredibly lucky not to go down to 13 men at one point, with a man already sin-binned their 10 swatted at a pass when there was a decent chance of an overlap, you normally see yellow when they're that blatant.
The Edinburgh 15 was on kicking duty and he made the single worst penalty attempt you'll ever see, the ball fell off the tee as he was stepping up so he effectively hit a grubber straight to a glaws player, who was so surprised by it that he knocked on to give them a scrum 10yards out right under the posts, which largely sums the game up.
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I suppose one positive to consider is that we are starting to make signings in the front five for next season.
Afoa from Ulster and Hibbard from the Ospreys confirmed so far.
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I agree, Credit to Davies for being pretty pro-active about it and getting his men in early, Afoa is a particularly good signing as he's a good pick and go carrier around the fringes which none of the existing front 5 are really, that's another reason why the backs aren'y able to rip teams open, when glaws pick and go they go backwards far too often which means the backs end up too flat and aren't coming on to passes at full pace. Noyle at 9 is a big problem as well as he will not pass off the floor, which you really need as an option when your game is built around your running game in the backs, it's only 1 step but it slows things enough that they never have quite as much space as they'd like.
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A 5 year deal for a 30 year old prop seems quite generous to me though, they normally retire before then (Leonard excepted).
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not really, props are normally at their best at 28-29 so playing until 34-35 is not that unusual, it might be a year too long but no more than that.
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If they can just find a pair of second rows then that should make for an interesting season next time. Woody will be fine alongside the two new boys.
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Rumours have Jim Hamilton coming back but I honestly can't see how we can afford it, unless we are adopting a Sacraecian approach to the salary cap.
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I fully intended to watch the game today but ended up wrapping christmas presents instead so I'm very upset that I missed the game being delayed by half an hour because the crossbar got broken by the pre-match entertainment, Ben Kay and Austin Healy on the commentary would've been great fun to listen to after that.
Aside from that it was a very important home win for Glaws, they really need to get some home form after a pretty shocking run and a nervy one in a local derby is a great starting point.
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London Irish next. Could do with winning that as well and break out from the pack of shit at the bottom.
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Thing is we are the pack of shit at the bottom!
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Touche
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London Irish next. Could do with winning that as well and break out from the pack of shit at the bottom.
Important win today, didn't play particularly well and defended really poorly for the Irish 3rd but a win is all that matters. The table looks much nicer for glaws now than it did a couple of weeks ago.
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Away win! Must say glad to see back of Burns, the way he's treated the club and supporters recently has been selfish in the extreme. Will Leicester get done for tapping him up? I should coco.
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Away win! Must say glad to see back of Burns, the way he's treated the club and supporters recently has been selfish in the extreme. Will Leicester get done for tapping him up? I should coco.
To give Burns some credit I think he's walking away because he should be England's first choice now but 18months of playing on the back foot behind the weakest pack in the league hasn't given him the platform he needed. I'm surpirsed Leicester is his destination of choice though, Quins and Saints could both do with a new 10 (Quins because Evans is 33 and probably only has another year in him and Saints because Myler is highly questionable under pressure, both from the tee and in general play) and both have fantastically strong squads where he could shine. I think Tigers are on the way down right now, they don't look the certainties for the playoffs that they've been for the last few years and it's happened because they've failed to trust the quality youngsters they had. I think they're going to have a similar fate to Bath where they drift in midtable for a few seasons.
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Maybe, but look at the signings Glos have made (Afoa and Hibberd) we won't be such a soft touch next season. Him leaving now leaves a big gap.
Also Leicester have clearly made him an offer in the autumn when they shouldn't speak to him, even indirectly, before 1 January. Interested to see if the RFU apply the rules to them or, like Saracens and the salary cap, the big establishment team get a free run.
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Maybe, but look at the signings Glos have made (Afoa and Hibberd) we won't be such a soft touch next season. Him leaving now leaves a big gap.
Also Leicester have clearly made him an offer in the autumn when they shouldn't speak to him, even indirectly, before 1 January. Interested to see if the RFU apply the rules to them or, like Saracens and the salary cap, the big establishment team get a free run.
it depends on his contract, if the finish date is in May they can have started talks on the 1st of December with the current rules. Having no idea what it is they've got a pretty safe 'get out' clause if that is the case, if his contract ends on the first of June, which is supposedly the standard, then they've broken the rules, pretty clearly. The May contract thing is why you start seeing a lot of agreements around mid-December.
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Brilliant weekend of games, Saints vs Quins tonight was muddy and error-strewn but was a truly excellent game despite all that.
Tomorrow sees Glaws at home to Sarries which will b fun and then Sunday we get Tigers at home to Bath.
Back to tonight, huge win for Saints, I've admitted before that I'm a big saints fan but seeing the resilience and quality in their side this year I think they'll take the title and I'm sure that they'll be a big force in europe net year, whatever competition it happens to be. Lawes, Hartley and Burrell have all stepped up a level and are the best in their positions in England, Wood already was the best and 6-7 other players are right at the top of their game as well. For England fans keep an eye out for Tom Collins, only 19 and has only broken through this year but he looks like he's going to be a bit special, excellent finisher and great skills, him and Elliott are massive prospects.
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...and in the biggest surprise of 2014 Cockerill get away with accusing Sale of cheating.
Leicester truly above the law.
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...and in the biggest surprise of 2014 Cockerill get away with accusing Sale of cheating.
Leicester truly above the law.
Cockerill has done enough stupid stuff now that his position really should be untenable, but he's one of the Tigers old boys and thy have mates high up. I'm just hoping that the team there continues getting weaker because, as I've said before, I still blame the 'jobs for the boys' culture that Leicester had built up entirely for the state we'd got to by the 2011 world cup, there is no way we should've been that poor. I think that's also a big part of why, as a nation, we're struggling to find a style which suits the backs we should be building the team around, so instead we're trying to do everything up front.
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Glaws took a bit of a battering at home to sarries, didn't seem to ever think they stood a chance, was a pretty dire performance all told. Sarries are a good side who have a great pack and offload well in the loose but Glaws gave them far too much respect at times.
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Bath carry the ball so well, 2 truly superb tries in a few minutes, Excellent from Abendanon and Watson for the first, even better from Eastmond and Ford for the 2nd. I reckon their backline is going to be stripped completely in a few weeks, Ford, Eastmond and Watson all have to be called up.
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Another very good try, great finish from Joseph.
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Another very good try, great finish from Joseph.
Good game so far.
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What is happening to Leicester of late 17-27 at home to Bath.
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Fair play to Tiger to come back to earn a 27 each draw.....but missed two conversions to have actually won it.
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Finished 27-27, fantastic game.
What's happening to Tigers is, simply, they're not that great any more.
Bath do have a hell of good side when they're on the front foot though. Leicester got back into today by doing what Saints did last week which was to draw Baths centres into the tight. Bath's weakness is that they don't have a mobile enough back row. If you can pin their backs in at the ruck you can get round the back pretty easily, Leicester did it twice today, saints did it 5 times last week, they need to replace Fearns and Garvey with some more modern back row players who get around the pitch better.
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Glad to see Ford is now in the squad, I think Burns is pretty lucky to retain his place.
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Also Eastmond being in instead of Tomkins is good.
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Glad to see Ford is now in the squad, I think Burns is pretty lucky to retain his place.
He hasn't, he's still in the EPS squad because he's contracted but he's dropped out of the 6N squad.
I really happy with the squad they've picked I just hope he shows some common sense and gives Burrell, Eastmond, Nowell and Watson the game time they deserve, those 4 are the future of our backline and need to play ahead of the likes of Ashton, Goode and Barritt who are all functional but uninspiring options.
The only forward I'd question is Ed Slater, I'd have promoted Robson myself but 4th choice Lock isn't a position I'd lose sleep over.
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Little annoyed to see Goode in the 6 nations squad as opposed to Foden. I'm hoping he's 3rd choice behind Watson.
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Little annoyed to see Goode in the 6 nations squad as opposed to Foden. I'm hoping he's 3rd choice behind Watson.
Foden is out until at least the 3rd game so there's no great problem with this, I'm happy with Goode as a more experienced option, I think Watson will go on to be one of the best back 3 players in the world but he's only played 19 games so we need to have a bit of caution with him. So long as May, Watson and Nowell all get some game time I'll be happy, we have 18/19 games before we need to finalise the rwc squad, so we've got a lot of time to see these kids and today shows that the England management are looking at them to be part of our world cup plans.
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Good weekend so far, lots of interesting games. Glaws were much better yesterday. They didn't have enough to see off munster (to an extent this was because the ref did the usual thing and allowed Munster to kill it at the breakdown, I have no idea why they continually get away with that) but they showed they've got a bit more fight in them.
Today saw an abysmal first half in the ospreys-saints game but then a really good second half. I found it quite amusing that, with Saints comfortably in the lead and totally deserving of the win the Welsh commentator picked out an Ospreys player and the only Welsh saints player to discuss man of the match. The real answer to that question was Dylan Hartley, who is having a truly superb season but the non-English commentators have refused to acknowledge him all season. His defending to hold the Osprey Fullback on his back over the line and stop a try was an exceptional bit of defending that capped a great performance. I do however agree that George North was exceptional today, his try was a genuine worldy (to quote a football term).
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I had to watch the Gloucester game on mute as the sky commentary was as biased as I've ever heard outside South America.
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I agree, the commentary on BT is far better, on Sky when it's an English team against Welsh, Scottish or Irish opposition you always get a English commentator who's trying to prove he can be impartial alongside an Irish/Welsh/Scot who's not bothering so you get a horribly skewed view of things. Munster in particular have benefited from that consistently over the years, nearly as often as they're allowed to kill the ball at the breakdown by refs turning a blind eye.
There was a fantastic example yesterday where glaws caught at the line out and went for the line, Munster tried the choke tackle but they went down and then after a few seconds the ref gave them the scrum but only after telling the glaws SH that the ball was there and to use it. which if tried to do but the ball wouldn't come out. A few points on it:
Glaws were advancing after the choke tackle was attempted, making it a maul, which Munster collapsed (penalty and arguably a penalty try).
After it collapsed no attempt was made by any Munster player to roll away (penalty, maybe a yellow card - see Jimmy Cowan the week before).
After the ball came to the top, with Glaws 2 yards from the line the SH tried to play it but the ball wasn't coming free, his own players won't have been holding it in so that was almost certainly a Munster player playing the ball on the floor (penalty, maybe a yellow card - see Billy Vunipola the week before).
So 3 penalty offenses and potentially 2 of them leading to yellow cards and somehow the ref saw nothing wrong. The choke, collapse if they start to go back and hold the ball in tactic is a particular favourite of Munster and I have no idea why no ref is willing to act on it. I used to use choe tackles all the time because at lower standard you can turn the guy your way and let one of your team strip the ball but I'd never have got away with collapsing it if it didn't go to plan.
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You know more about rugby than me. Their game killing was driving me to a very sweary distraction Saturday though.
They would likely still have won but the ref fucked me off no end.
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It's no surprise. ERC and Sky make money the further Munster go with all the hullabaloo that surrounds them. Whether directly or inferred, the preference the refs have for them is a natural progression from this. The fact a Celtic league team gets a Celtic team ref who they see week in week out again shows the natural bias of the organisers to Munster.
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You know more about rugby than me. Their game killing was driving me to a very sweary distraction Saturday though.
They would likely still have won but the ref fucked me off no end.
I can't remember watching Munster play a HC game and not having that feeling, they've been doing the same shit for a decade and never ben picked up on it. It's one of a very small number of things that really pisses me off with professional rugby (it ranks just behind the fact that Richie McCaw has an entry in the rules of the game stating that he doesn't have to let go of the man after a tackle, doesn't have to be on his feet and doesn't have to enter a ruck through the gate).
As far as I'm concerned Munster are the Man Utd of rugby with half the refs in their pocket and when they lose that protection they'll be as badly shown up as United are being this year.
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Be interesting to see who Gloucester bring in to replace Burns.
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Indeed, they probably need someone more willing to punt to the corners and get the pack on the front foot, I'm a big fan of Freddie and think he's immensely talented but he needs a stable pack in front of him and glaws haven't had that for a few years. I suspect we'll start to see his little brother soon though, from the bits of seen of him in the England youth sides he's going to be as good if not better.
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Let's just get someone who wants to play for the club.
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Let's just get someone who wants to play for the club.
Slightly harsh on Burns tbh, I just think the fit was wrong. He wants to play a really high line so he can use his running ability to make space for the outside backs but to do that you need the pack to be solid and get regular quick ball, Glaws haven't had that pack for 18months and it's not helping anyone.
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We will have next season though. Now we're being put through the charade of pretending Leicester are approaching him now, not November when the deal was done.
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To be fair, Nigel Davies is hiding anything. He basically he is off to Leicester, is glad it is now in the open and will be looking to sign possibly two to replace him.
He also suggested that he wants a ten who will control the game rather than change it.
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To be fair, Nigel Davies is hiding anything. He basically he is off to Leicester, is glad it is now in the open and will be looking to sign possibly two to replace him.
He also suggested that he wants a ten who will control the game rather than change it.
exactly. This glaws side needs someone to keep them playing in the right areas and 'directing traffic'.
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Is the rugby improving over there? It is still thought over here in New Zealand as a last pay day to earn big money before the career ends and play less intense Rugby. I suppose that all the All Blacks that play over there are ex-AB's.
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That's more because NZ don't pick people that are playing abroad than anything else.
I think there's very little difference between the quality at club level certainly the top 10-12 sides in the Heineken would be competitive against the top 10-12 in the superugby. Where there is a difference is in the mental side of things, northern hemisphere rugby is focused on setting the platform of good field position and then opening the game out with southern hemishpere sides generally more interested in running aggressive lines earlier in the play.
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How does the quality of Northern competitions compare with the Super 15 tournament? it is a genuine question as I don't get to see the European competitions.
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It's hard to compare them really, the formats are totally different, the Heineken cup format is similar to world cup - 6 groups of 4, the 6 winners and 2 best runners-up go in to a straight-forward single game knockout.
I think the best answer is, if you took the best 4 teams from each tournament and played them off all of the games would be fantastic and I'd be completely unwilling to bet on them, I'd be particularly interested to see the outcome of Toulon vs the Bulls - that'd be a bruising game.
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I think the intensity is similar as is the concentration of internationals. it would be like a northern vs southern hemisphere international match I think ie close and dependent on how its refereed and if its on hard ground or not.
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Good win for Saints tonight, 2nd in the group behind Leinster and highly unlikely to qualify but it does highlight the disparity in the groupings this year that Castres and the Ospreys (French champions and arguably the strongest side in Wales) have finished 3rd and 4th in the group. Northampton seem to have had a really tough group like this every season since they made the final a few years back.
From tonight Waller is very unlucky not to have been called up for the 6N squad, the English core of the Saints pack is phenomenal, Waller, Hartley, Lawes and Wood have stepped up to a new level. If Northampton can keep this squad together and get a bit of luck with injuries in the backs they'll win everything in the next 2-3 years.
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Cracking intense game with Ulster winning at Leceister. Full of impact and high quality play in tough conditions.
This is what the Heineken Cup is all about.
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This season in the Heineken cup has just served to show, once again, how big an effect the Italian teams have, the 2 groups with them in both leading to the winners getting a home QF and the 2nd place teams getting the runners up spots. The changes to european rugby really are needed to limit how big a part this plays.
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Agreed. I might add that, whilst parts of the game need working on, Gloucester were bloody great in Perpignan today.
It is amazing what happens when you start winning the scrum and release the weapons at the back.
May and Kvesic the standouts today. May destroyed them with room and Kvesic ran the floor.
Leicester bound bollocks picked up a bit as well. Those previous pair the star turns for me though.
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Kvesic was superb. If he performs like that consistently for the rest of the season it'll give Lancaster a massive headache because Robshaw is poor at the breakdown, this is why I've never been comfortable with Robshaw as the captain, most people in the game knew Kvesic was going to become something special, I don't want us to miss out a truly world class 7 in the world cup because we won't drop the captain and I've thought it might come to that all along.
May was very good, nice to see him do it at 13 as well, I think he's got the pace and skill to play 13 and out, which makes him a fantastic choice for England. Him and Twelvetrees on the bench covers the entire backline perfectly.
As for Burns, if Gloucester played like that upfront regularly he'd be going nowhere.
Final points on Glaws today, Robson was superb, I've said for a few years that he'll be long term solution at 9 and he's starting to get the experience and consistency to be a top international scrum-half. He'll surpass Youngs and Wigglesworth soon in my opinion, Him, Care and Dickson would be my 3 for the world cup as it stands.
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If Northampton can keep this squad together and get a bit of luck with injuries in the backs they'll win everything in the next 2-3 years.
As a part-time fan, I hope so. From my perspective I cannot see too many Saints leaving for another English club, so will the threat will be from France? Maybe horrible Saracens?
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If Northampton can keep this squad together and get a bit of luck with injuries in the backs they'll win everything in the next 2-3 years.
As a part-time fan, I hope so. From my perspective I cannot see too many Saints leaving for another English club, so will the threat will be from France? Maybe horrible Saracens?
I don't think there's a lot of people likely to leave outside of a few fringe players, really the key is getting the backs fit, not many clubs could cope with the number of injuries Saints have been hit by in the last few months, Foden is the key as they've really struggled to replace him, losing Wilson who would be the first choice to do so is just seriously bad luck. They've also got away with losing Corbs on the back of a truly excellent season from Waller. It's really strange that a club that lost Tonga'huia and Mujati in the summer have actually improved immensely up front, I doubt anyone would've predicted that, Lawes and Hartley moving from potentially great players to being genuine world class talents has been the key, summer up by them being the key men in easily the best line out in Europe.
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Where does the H&V rugby crowd stand on the Ian Evans stamping issue?
If you haven't seen it:
You can skip to about 1:40 in to see it from the important angle, if you look you see 1 stamp that misses and then 3 that are clearly to his head. The argument seems to be that he didn't realise it was a head he was stamping on and therefore it's fair game, which is complete bullshit as far as I'm concerned. 1 stamp to the head when he can't see what he's doing I'd accept that and just uphold the red card and a very short ban, as is I think this is on a par with the Nick Wood one earlier in the season so I'd hope for a 6-8week ban, which it deserves. I have a feeling he's going to get off lightly though, probably 2-3 weeks so he can play the 6N and the same excuses will be given. If you watch the whole thing there's about 4 players stamping (the normal definition is that a front to back action is rucking and an up and down action is stamping) in there including Evans, If I were the citing commissioner I'd be sending a big fine to the club because that's just not on. I'm ok with a guy getting a bit of a shoeing (rucking) if he's in the way (although he was there completely legally which also seems to be being missed) but there's never a justification to stamp on someone.
I've been on both sides of that situation a lot of times and only once did the opposition see fit to stamp, one got me in the face and I have the missing teeth to prove it, I also had a cracked rib from the same event. It led to the most bizarre situation I've ever seen with 3 red cards for stamping (with bans of 4, 8 and 20 weeks for the culprits) 2 red cards for fighting (one for each team, our captain flattened the guy who got me in the face and got an 8 week ban himself) and a 10 minute break midway through the half whilst the ref decided whether to let the game carry on or abandon it. I had a great view of everything from the side of the pitch whilst I waited for an ambulance.
I guess that does cloud my judgement on stamping a little but going to work on the Monday with a cracked rib and foot print on my face didn't go down well with my boss (I was conducting a load of training at the time so had to start each session with a 'rugby is a messy sport sometimes' speech.
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In response to the comment re Burns and good ball, versus Burns and his financial requests, I think Gloucester were on a loser from the start.
Leicester tapped him and made an offer at the start of his negotiations with us. They offered to make hime the best paid, home based, ten around.
We were pissing in the wind negotiation wise from there on out.
They tried but couldnt get close to the rival package with other positions to upgrade.
More to come on the tight five though so says a chap I know who works at Hartpury.
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Does your ITK have any idea who we're getting in at 10?
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Not that I know of.
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I've heard they were talking with a flyhalf from one of the welsh regions (there were stories about Rhys Priestland a week or 2 back but I don't know if this is alongside those stories or the same link) but I didn't get anything else. I've also been told a few times that a number of the coaches believe that Billy Burns will be a better 10 than his brother in a few years.
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Do any of you ever get down to Moseley? They've just had approval for a new stand, hopefully the start of the road back.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/rugby/work-set-begin-moseleys-long-6532786
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It wouldn't surprise me if Sam Davies, Nigel's son came in from Ospreys.
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A random thought, however...
Kvesic to me has some facial appearances similar to Guzan.
As you were.
Oh, and for Lovejoy, he reckons we may well have at least had a chat with Priestland.
At least, he thought it was him.
My ITK is shite and purely based on seeing what Davies will tell him or spotting people turning up (who he thinks they are).
Sometimes great. Sometimes woefully off beam. His effort with Doncha wish your girlfriend was O Callghan, being an example.
That was the year they beat us at home in the Heineken quarters and was most exciting as a Summer signing.
I think we got an untried Qera and two from Scotland!
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(http://www.fifa.com/imgml/tournament/worldcup2010/players/xl/276139.png)(http://img.skysports.com/13/09/218x298/177215022_2999133.jpg)
I've thought the same for a while, they could quite easily be related.
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12 week ban for Evans, I'm pretty amazed by that. I thought it deserved about 8 and I expected him to get 2-3, I'm pretty glad they did go further with it as I don't think the club or player really appreciated how serious it was and were all too busy arguing about the red card to consider that he could've seriously injured someone.
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Worcester's misery continues lost 20-6 at Sale today
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I feel for Worcester, they've had some really good players in the last few years but they just haven't been able to keep hold of them and the replacements just haven't worked out.
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Feel sorry for Ryan, he's a good coach. They're going down.
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Do any of you ever get down to Moseley? They've just had approval for a new stand, hopefully the start of the road back.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/rugby/work-set-begin-moseleys-long-6532786
Yeah, this is probably my level of interest in rugby. I'll always watch England games even when it's in the World Sevens in Las Vegas which I'm currently watching. I'll also look out for Moseley's scores as well and like to try and keep an eye on what they're doing. Wouldn't mind goingto Twickenham, even though forthetwo years or so thatI lived on the road where the ground is situated (Nelson Rd?) I didn't. And even if Moseley became thetop team in England I'd be delighted and declare myself a Moseley follower, but I wouldn't go and watch a game.
I find watching club rugby boring. I do like watching the game, but only internationals, and I do know the rules. But I do like reading about it on this thread. I'd say a lot of my knowledge about England players comes from this thread.
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Is it the standard of club rugby which makes you say it's boring or the fact that you don't follow a top team compared to, say, your interest in England?
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Bit of both I guess. But mainly because football absorbs my life so much there's not much room for other sports. But I have, and do, go to cricket games. Warwickshire mean more to me than England in a Villa way but Im not bothered about seeing either play live although I definitely will again.
I suppose it's because I'm not from a rugby family or have played the game. I'd liked to have gone to HQ but I could never go to another sporting event while Villa are playing. In fact I don't like doing anything when Villa are playing.
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If you don't follow a team and therefore don't have the emotional attachment to the sport, I can understand why you find it boring. I have the same feeling with American football. That said it isn't the sport itself which is boring but your relationship with it that makes this so.
Regarding the standard, I think if you watch Heineken cup games (Leicester vs Ulster for example) the intensity of that game would better say the Scotland Italy 6N game I suspect.
The sport itself is is far from boring.
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No, I can honestly say that I find rugby incredibly boring to watch. I'm with whoever once dubbed it "Kick and clap". I've tried to get into it, but it doesn't hold my attention for more than about five minutes before I flick the channels. I've been to games as well, love the social side, nice to be able to have a pint on the terraces, but the game is boring.
I played it to a decent level as well when I was in the Army, I was a decent hooker and also played prop and second row when needed. Made the Army minor units final and got selected for a BAOR select XV (only played one game but a big honour), loved playing, hated watching.
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I never used to be able to watch club rugby other than at the ground but when i had to stop playing at 28 (stupid knee) I found myself a lot more drawn to it. Now I can happily watch glaws, saints, bath and quins (and i like watching toulouse, toulon and clermont as well). I can't watch rabodirect games, I don't mind the Scottish and Italian sides but I hate watching Irish and Welsh rugby, not sure why, Leinster play fantastic rugby for example, but I can only watch them in a 'willing them to lose' way.
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I'm very happy to see Youngs left at home, Dickson and Care are the 2 best in the country so I'm glad he's had the guts to go with them.
Forwards: David Attwood (Bath Rugby), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Joe Launchbury (London Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby), Matt Mullan (London Wasps), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks), Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints), Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers).
Backs: Brad Barritt (Saracens), Mike Brown (Harlequins), Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints), Danny Care (Harlequins), Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath Rugby), Alex Goode (Saracens), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby).
There's a few spares in there but I suspect on the day it'll be:
Mako V, Hartley, Cole
Launchbury, Lawes
Wood, Billy V, Robshaw
Dickson, Farrell
Twelvetrees, Barritt
Nowell, Brown, Watson
Subs: Thomas, Marler, Youngs, Attwood, Morgan, Care, Ford, Burrell
I'd personally leave Barritt out and move Burrell in with May on the bench though but I'd be amazed if he doesn't figure. I really hope Goode is left out, he's not quick enough to play as a wide back and isn't good enough to be selected as a 10.
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Burrell, Nowell and May starting pretty interesting back line. I'm a bit worried about a lack of creativity on the bench.
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So...
England: Mike Brown; Jack Nowell, Luther Burrell, Billy Twelvetrees, Jonny May; Owen Farrell, Danny Care; Joe Marler, Dylan Hartley, Dan Cole, Joe Launchbury, Courtney Lawes, Tom Wood, Chris Robshaw, Billy Vunipola.
Replacements: Tom Youngs, Mako Vunipola, Henry Thomas, Dave Attwood, Ben Morgan, Lee Dickson, Brad Barritt, Alex Goode.
The pack picks itself with Marler/Mako the only decision and that one is so close that he couldn't really get it wrong. Backs, I'm mostly happy with his selections, I'm surprised he's gone with Burrell and Twelvetrees as I didn't think he'd pair them, but that's a positive, they both deserved to start.
However... the backs on the bench just don't inspire me at all. Dickson isn't an impact sub, he should start with Care to come on and snipe around the fringes when people are tiring. Barritt and Goode likewise provide no impact, Ford and Watson there instead and we'd have game changers to bring on (like we have with Mako, Youngs and Morgan up front). He's still being a bit negative but Nowell and May on the wings is a big step in the right direction.
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So...
England: Mike Brown; Jack Nowell, Luther Burrell, Billy Twelvetrees, Jonny May; Owen Farrell, Danny Care; Joe Marler, Dylan Hartley, Dan Cole, Joe Launchbury, Courtney Lawes, Tom Wood, Chris Robshaw, Billy Vunipola.
Replacements: Tom Youngs, Mako Vunipola, Henry Thomas, Dave Attwood, Ben Morgan, Lee Dickson, Brad Barritt, Alex Goode.
The pack picks itself with Marler/Mako the only decision and that one is so close that he couldn't really get it wrong. Backs, I'm mostly happy with his selections, I'm surprised he's gone with Burrell and Twelvetrees as I didn't think he'd pair them, but that's a positive, they both deserved to start.
However... the backs on the bench just don't inspire me at all. Dickson isn't an impact sub, he should start with Care to come on and snipe around the fringes when people are tiring. Barritt and Goode likewise provide no impact, Ford and Watson there instead and we'd have game changers to bring on (like we have with Mako, Youngs and Morgan up front). He's still being a bit negative but Nowell and May on the wings is a big step in the right direction.
I agree the general direction is positive, but the bench lacks the ability to change the game.
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Its not a very experiences back line, is Paris in the 6N opener the place to do this?
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I'm actually pretty happy with that, players should be picked because they've earned it not because they have lots of caps. Lancaster is starting to show a bolder side to his character and team selection and I'm pleased about it.
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Its not a very experiences back line, is Paris in the 6N opener the place to do this?
We're running out of time to give the likes of May, Nowell and Burrell the run their club form deserves so I think he's left himself with no choice because of his very conservative approach in 2013, the only time he made genuinely positive selections was when the lions forced his hand.
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Its not a very experiences back line, is Paris in the 6N opener the place to do this?
We're running out of time to give the likes of May, Nowell and Burrell the run their club form deserves so I think he's left himself with no choice because of his very conservative approach in 2013, the only time he made genuinely positive selections was when the lions forced his hand.
I see Lancaster as being a rugby version of Doug Ellis. He will go so far, but just when you are willing him to go that one step further he lets you down. Delighted with the team, but the backs on the bench??? What on earth is he thinking? What happens if Nowell and Farrell go down injured in the first 10 mins. We are left with Brown on the wing again, didn't work last year and won't work ever and Twelvetress as fly half, not good enough in the position for Glaws let alone England.
What the bloody hell the point of Ford and Watson going to Paris to look at the sights is, is beyond me. I am backing the team to win, but christ if we are down with 20 to go there is absolutely nothing to inspire in terms of backs on the bench. Get Watson and Ford into the 23 as quick as possible
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Apparently Flower is going to resign, bit of a turn up. Saying that after this tour we need a change now, it has been diabolical across all forms.
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Wrong thread.
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Its not a very experiences back line, is Paris in the 6N opener the place to do this?
We're running out of time to give the likes of May, Nowell and Burrell the run their club form deserves so I think he's left himself with no choice because of his very conservative approach in 2013, the only time he made genuinely positive selections was when the lions forced his hand.
I see Lancaster as being a rugby version of Doug Ellis. He will go so far, but just when you are willing him to go that one step further he lets you down. Delighted with the team, but the backs on the bench??? What on earth is he thinking? What happens if Nowell and Farrell go down injured in the first 10 mins. We are left with Brown on the wing again, didn't work last year and won't work ever and Twelvetress as fly half, not good enough in the position for Glaws let alone England.
What the bloody hell the point of Ford and Watson going to Paris to look at the sights is, is beyond me. I am backing the team to win, but christ if we are down with 20 to go there is absolutely nothing to inspire in terms of backs on the bench. Get Watson and Ford into the 23 as quick as possible
The biggest issue I have with them having flown Ford and Watson over and then left them out is that both would've benefited (given their age and experience) from a run out for the saxons so if the intention was to pick the team he has I don't understand him not releasing them both back to the saxons, Ford could've shared a game with Burns and Watson would clearly be picked ahead of Thompstone.
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Terrible terrible start.
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Twelvetrees has started appallingly both defensively and in attack.
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and again Twelvetrees wastes a chance.
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Utter shambles, Knowle is having a fucking nightmare.
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Error strewn nightmare of a performance at the moment.
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May off as well now permanently for the useless Goode.
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The decision to have Goode as the outside back replacement on the bench has proven a masterstroke, in no way is he far too slow to play at the level. Watson on the bench and gameplan doesn't change, now we're playing 2 fullbacks for 75mins, fucking wonderful.
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The decision to have Goode as the outside back replacement on the bench has proven a masterstroke, in no way is he far too slow to play at the level. Watson on the bench and gameplan doesn't change, now we're playing 2 fullbacks for 75mins, fucking wonderful.
This game is over short of a miracle come back. Goode being on is a disaster.
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Great finish Brown.
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Good try from Brown but we are too reliant on Nowell to break the line, I was angry with the bench anyway, as soon as May went off I knew he'd be gone for the game and we'd be stuck with 2 full backs for most of the game, it was so predictable. Lancaster drives me mad, every time he starts to look at using our dangerous outside backs he fucks it up by making negative selections elsewhere which ruin it.
Goode was utterly shit for their 2nd try.
No idea why we didn't drop the ball and take the penalty at the end.
I'm so frustrated by this because his answer next week, if we don't get back into this, will be to go more negative again.
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The decision to have Goode as the outside back replacement on the bench has proven a masterstroke, in no way is he far too slow to play at the level. Watson on the bench and gameplan doesn't change, now we're playing 2 fullbacks for 75mins, fucking wonderful.
This game is over short of a miracle come back. Goode being on is a disaster.
I don't agree with that, the french team aren't anything like as fit as we are, if the game is close after an hour we'll take it.
I agree with you that Twelvetrees has been poor, Burrell hasn't had a sniff because fuck all has gone to him.
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Twelvetrees has started appallingly both defensively and in attack.
But improved in second quarter.
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take a bow big billy, brilliant break and a fantastic support line from Burrell to score, that's the game I want to see from us.
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Threw it away, as soon as Nowell went off they knew we didn't have the pace to hurt them. Goode was very poor, he's too slow and he sold himself far to easily for their winning try after putting in a shocker of a tackle for the 2nd, a better option on the bench and we could've saved those 12 points. I have no idea why he took off Lawes who was the best player on the pitch, might be that he was tiring but I still don't think it was the right call. I'm really disappointed, we should've had enough to win that
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Stupid basic errors cost us dear there, that was Frances cup final, they'll get fuck all from here on, they always do.
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I didn't see the second half, but I reckon the first 20 minutes of the game cost us really. It's very frustrating because it sounds like we should have won. I really don't ever want to see Goode in an England team again, he's slow and has the most telegrahed step in rugby. I'd just love to get our first team on the pitch for once. The bench today was a massive problem today, and we need a lot more impact available on it. If Watson had come on instead of Goode we probably would have won. We need to start winning and dominating if we are to stand a chance in the World Cup.
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Thought we were the better side by some distance today. The first twenty minutes aside we should have won. No idea why he took Care off who was my man of the match by some distance, even with the slow motion replays I thought he had grounded the ball on the line.
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Really disappointed to lose that. Undeserved. Coming off the back of the Villa capiulation a shit sporting day.
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With the Everton game having two late goals and our most important player going off, today sport has kicked me in the bollocks twice because France mugged us.
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Until that conversion, the score was 16-6 - a representation of Bloomsday on this, the birthday of James Joyce. Shame it didn't finish like that.
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My fear is that if May isn't fit then Goode will start and I don't think he should be anywhere near the squad.
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Goode is a fine player in club rugby as he is generally a very intelligent player who moves the team around the pitch well and really should be playing at 10 for someone (glaws could do a hell of a lot worse than to try convincing him of this). The issue is, at international level, he's not quick enough, either flat out pace or changing direction, so his clever running lines get picked and defensively he gets caught flat-footed. He's just one of those players who will never make it internationally. I agree he shouldn't be in the England squad but he's not as bad as he gets made to look at international level.
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May is fit for next week.
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excellent news, in that case my only changes would be Ford and Watson onto the bench for Goode and Barritt and I'd switch Dickson and Care, I like them both but Care against a tiring back row and half back pairing is much more dangerous. For me the bench should always be selected for their ability to come on and add impetus, look at the effect Morgan, Vunipola and Youngs had in the loose, all 3 were making huge gains every time they carried. We were badly let down by the lack of flair coming on in the backs, once Nowell went off we looked like we had nothing other than pick and go and first receiver crash balls, which were pretty effective but just didn't offer enough variation to get the points our domination deserved (and we did totally boss the game after the first 20).
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excellent news, in that case my only changes would be Ford and Watson onto the bench for Goode and Barritt and I'd switch Dickson and Care, I like them both but Care against a tiring back row and half back pairing is much more dangerous. For me the bench should always be selected for their ability to come on and add impetus, look at the effect Morgan, Vunipola and Youngs had in the loose, all 3 were making huge gains every time they carried. We were badly let down by the lack of flair coming on in the backs, once Nowell went off we looked like we had nothing other than pick and go and first receiver crash balls, which were pretty effective but just didn't offer enough variation to get the points our domination deserved (and we did totally boss the game after the first 20).
Yeah I'd agree.
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Named an unchanged 23 so clearly he saw nothing wrong with ending the game with Barritt and Brown on the wings and thinks the performance from Goode was ok, I'm not sure what to say on that.
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I'd say it's worrying.
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I hope Sam Burgess does switch to union, I think he'd make a great union centre which is something we really need.
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I hope he switches codes and gives it a go because he could be very good but I also hope they don't just fast-track him into the England squad. We have a lot of potentially very good centres (Manu, Burrell, Twelvetrees, Joseph, Eastmond, Trinder and Daly all have a lot of quality) some of whom have missed out on caps because they fast-tracked Tomkins in on the basis of very little evidence that he was an international class union centre. They've made the same mistake in the past with Farrell and Henry Paul who both got international status in union far too quickly. I worry Burgess will get similar preferential treatment and get a place regardless of his club form.
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Other than Jason Robinson name me one UK player whose made a successful switch?
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Eastmond looks like he is currently.
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Eastmond could be top drawer but it's taken him a while to settle and he's had a fair few problems.
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U20 game vs Scotland has been very good so far, can watch online here (http://www.rugbydump.com/2014/02/3586/scotland-u20-vs-england-u20-live-stream-friday-730pm-gmt)
Kibirige at 14, topmkins at 13 and Billy Burns at 10 have looked quality and the England back row has dominated the breakdown from what I've seen. 8-19 to England at half time, it could've been a lot more though, we've been a bit poor on their tryline.
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I was very impressed today. I don't think I can remember a game where we were so comfortable and in control of a game. Yes we could have scored more points, but I think the pitch had a massive impact on that and I thought our attacking was pretty good. Burrell is really impressing me as well.
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Indeed. Other the Yonugs throwing being wonky after Hartley went off, it was top quality stuff.
Typical of the Scots to boo the kickers, no class in that.
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I think that bar the first 20 minutes at France, England have been excellent in this Six Nations.
Completely dominant yesterday and 20-0 massively flatters the Scots, who had no answer to the power, pace and tempo of our game. We must now keep this set of players together and they will only improve.
The only gripe I have is that we need to get Watson on the bench ahead of Goode
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Other than Jason Robinson name me one UK player whose made a successful switch?
Chris Ashton has been good, excellent for spells, but he had the benefit of the Saints getting relegated so had a whole season to play at a lower level. He struggled in his first season after the switch if i recall correctly.
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One thing I'll say is that England's game is certainly developing. It's noticeable that whilst we still have a lot of power in the forwards which we need, in the first two games of the 6 nations we've been a lot more expansive in the backs. Farrell is offering more as an attacking fly half and the backs are running good lines and looking threatening. Lancaster is clearly moving towards the style he wants to play and developing, which is quite a stark contrast with Lambert's inability to develop his tactics.
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Not been on since the game. We should've won by a lot more, very dominant performance and everyone who started deserves credit. The pack is exceptional.
The bench/subs were poor though, with only really Mako coming on and having a positive impact, Tom Youngs had a nightmare throwing in after a pure masterclass from Hartley, less than a year ago there were people genuinely calling for Youngs to get the nod and Hartley be dumped for good, I thought it was stupid at the time and I'm glad that they've all gone very quiet in the last few months.
All that said the only changes I'd like are the same ones I wanted to see 2 weeks ago, Watson in for Goode and Ford (or Eastmond if you're happy with twlevetrees as an option) for Barritt. We need some late impact, France did us after being battered for an hour by having an open field runner to bring on late in the game, as a game changing option, we need to have the same option(s) on the bench.
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Glaws missed out on a big win at Tigers on the back of 2 shocking decisions which led directly to 8 points for Leicester when they weren't really in the game. I'm very disappointed with the officials over it. The free kick for feeding at the scrum was pathetic.
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Same old Leceister always cheating.
If this was football it would be all over the back pages.
If there are any Leceister fans on here, can you tell me how you feel to win in that manner? (Honest question).
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Sam Burgess confirmed for Bath, they're going to start having problems fitting everyone in to that backline; Eastmond, Joseph, Burgess, Henson as the 4 primary option in the centres is pretty strong, Ford and Heathcote inside them and then Watson, Abendanon, Rokoduguni, Banahan and Biggs are all very good premiership players on the outside as well, it's becoming a very impressive squad.
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I think Abendannon is leaving.
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I think Abendannon is leaving.
Is that confirmed? I actually don't pay that much attention to Bath so I hadn't seen anything to say it was definite. I can understand it if he does but they'll have to replace him because Watson will miss a lot of club rugby for the rest of his career, he's too good to not be a regular in the England squad, give him a bit of time to get used to regular top level rugby and he's got the pace, power, skills and defence to cover 11-15, he reminds me of North when he first got into the Welsh side, still raw but with absolutely everything you want in a outside back.
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There are some really exciting players in England and I'm glad that even though he's still making a few errors, Lancaster is beginning to bring our game on.
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Sounds like Ford is going to be on the bench on Saturday. Happy about that, as it potentially gives us a lot more impact from the bench.
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Ford on the bench is a big improvement, he's persisting with Goode though, which is frustrating.
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Ford on the bench is a big improvement, he's persisting with Goode though, which is frustrating.
Yeah but hopefully it's a gradual transition, maybe he doesn't want to leave too much inexperience on the bench in such a big game. I'm hoping that's the case anyway.
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So Davie Wilson in for Cole and Ford onto the bench in place of Barritt, as was clearly ging to be the case when the 23 was announced. Should be a close game, Ireland have started the tournament really well and made Wales look very average (Although Mike Phillips deserves a fair share of the 'credit' for that). England started 20minutes late against France but have been good since and keeping scotland at 0 highlights just how dominant we were, better precision and we'd have given them a real pasting.
I'm going to go for Home advantage and give go for England 17-13 Ireland and a very nervy last 10.
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I have a sneaking suspicion we'll win this won comfortably by about 10-12 points.
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Stupid basic errors cost us dear there, that was Frances cup final, they'll get fuck all from here on, they always do.
Told you so.
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Fuck me that ref was biased.
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Roland, biased? Yes! He has never given Wales anything. Can't think of a single decision that was wrong tonight. Championship is back on!
Cymru am byth!
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At least a couple of line outs where the ball clearly came off a Welsh player and given to Wales, the North try involved a shove in the back that forced the French player to split the ball, the French number 8 was sin binned for very little whilst Welshies on a wind up went un punished and I even though the Welsh try looked short of the line or at best inconclusive.
It's almost as if the ref felt he needed to even something up......
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If I'm honest I'm really pleased it's Joubert for the England game, I hold out hopes that he'll stop them killing the breakdown, hes about the only ref in this tournament that I'd back to do that, especially with England at home. Without Cole to do the dirty stuff on the floor that Robshaw doesn't bring we'd be really susceptible to the game being slowed down and I wouldn't trust some of the other refs to care how legally it's done.
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England breed the downright dumbest players in world rugby. How many times can you knock on the door of the try-line and screw it up?
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We missed a few chances but that was brilliant in defence. I also take back my previous criticism of Brown, I'd always thought his running lines weren't good enough for someone without blistering pace but he's worked very hard on it and looks every bit an international fullback now.
Gutted to see Billy V on crutches, I really hope that was precautionary.
Burrell is a genuinely world class prospect in the centres, everything he did today was superb.
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So Davie Wilson in for Cole and Ford onto the bench in place of Barritt, as was clearly ging to be the case when the 23 was announced. Should be a close game, Ireland have started the tournament really well and made Wales look very average (Although Mike Phillips deserves a fair share of the 'credit' for that). England started 20minutes late against France but have been good since and keeping scotland at 0 highlights just how dominant we were, better precision and we'd have given them a real pasting.
I'm going to go for Home advantage and give go for England 17-13 Ireland and a very nervy last 10.
not far off, close to the difference and the last 10 was just as close as I suspected.
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Care was MOM for me in a really high quality test match, though Brown once again was unstoppable.
Billy V is a quality player who would be missed but Morgan is an excellent and powerful no.8 who must think himself a little unlucky not to start.
Bring on the welsh, we should have enough to beat them though it is the biggest game for them by a mile.
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That was one of the most pulsating and intense international matches I have seen.
Huge performance for such an inexperienced side to stymie an excellent Ireland in great form. Brown is fast becoming one of the best 15's in world rugby, something I never thought I'd be saying a year ago when he was wasting on the wing. Care excellent, as was Burrell.
This side could really be something. When you think how much natural improvement there's going to be over the next year, and with the likes of Cole, Corbisiero, Tuilagi, Wade, Yarde all to come back into contention, it must be a pretty scary prospect for other teams.
Hopefully Billy V will be fine in a couple of weeks, but Morgan is a fine player to have as backup.
If only for the lack of that poor first 20 minutes in Paris, we'd be looking at the probability of a Grand Slam.
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Oh and today epitomised for me why the six nations is a better tournament than the one played in the southern hemisphere.
Yes there may be more try's down south, but the level of intensity and commitment is lacking compared to the European game
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Fabulous match full of tension. This England team is going places and fast. We need Billy back soon, but I thought Brown, Care, Launchbury, Lawes and Burrell were all excellent. Also it's noticeable that Farrell is playing a much more ambitious game now.
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As much as the players named above deserve credit the player who was epitomised the direction this team has tried to go under Lancaster is Robshaw. Despite lots of criticism, only now is it quietening but not gone away, he has proved to be vital in this team. Credit to Lancaster for seeing something, making him captain, and watch him look closer to being a world class international as it's possible to be.
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I was lucky enough to be at Twickenham yesterday. What a pulsating game of rugby, played by two evenly matched teams who displayed skill, ambition to run the ball while defending as though their lives depended on it, huge commitment and intensity. Can't wait to bring on the Welsh now.
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Same, and the Irish helped to make it a great atmosphere.
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What a very good game of rugby that was. That first 20 minutes of the second half was pulsating with the momentum swinging one way and then the other. I bet Sexton is kicking himself after that restart, it was a turning point.
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Oh and today epitomised for me why the six nations is a better tournament than the one played in the southern hemisphere.
Yes there may be more try's down south, but the level of intensity and commitment is lacking compared to the European game
Agree completely which makes it doubly galling that the gap between the southern and northern hemisphere seems so wide, it discredits the 6 Nations and Heineken cup because any southerner will say the quality is not as good, yet as a spectacle it's consistently much better to watch.
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The gap between the north and south isn't anything like as wide as it's made out to be, player for player. It's the attitude to the game that's different, this over simplifies things massively but in the north field position is more important than possession a lot of the time, that's not so true in the south, particularly at club level. That's why the offloading game has historically been a very southern hemisphere thing, it works really well if you're attacking from deep.
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I see Billy V is rule out for the rest of the tournament, that's a big blow, he's been superb so far. That said Morgan is a very capable deputy. Will be interesting to see what they do with the bench though, Kvesic is the obvious choice but he'd be a direct replacement for Robshaw on the bench which I don't think Lancaster will want so you have to look to the saxons squad. In there Dickinson looks like the sensible option but that would be a huge rise from the championship to the England bench in 8months.
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I see Billy V is rule out for the rest of the tournament, that's a big blow, he's been superb so far. That said Morgan is a very capable deputy. Will be interesting to see what they do with the bench though, Kvesic is the obvious choice but he'd be a direct replacement for Robshaw on the bench which I don't think Lancaster will want so you have to look to the saxons squad. In there Dickinson looks like the sensible option but that would be a huge rise from the championship to the England bench in 8months.
As you say Billy is a big loss but provided Morgan stays fit he's decent back up. I think he'll bring in Kvesic and if required he'll put Wood at number 8.
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I see Billy V is rule out for the rest of the tournament, that's a big blow, he's been superb so far. That said Morgan is a very capable deputy. Will be interesting to see what they do with the bench though, Kvesic is the obvious choice but he'd be a direct replacement for Robshaw on the bench which I don't think Lancaster will want so you have to look to the saxons squad. In there Dickinson looks like the sensible option but that would be a huge rise from the championship to the England bench in 8months.
As you say Billy is a big loss but provided Morgan stays fit he's decent back up. I think he'll bring in Kvesic and if required he'll put Wood at number 8.
I agree, but the conclusion to that, if morgan has to come off, is that we'd probably end up with:
a 6 at 8 (wood)
a 6 at 7 (robshaw)
a 7 at 6 (kvesic)
Which is just as unbalanced as the backrow we had against wales last year which cost us dearly.
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Got to say, I'm worried about the game tomorrow.
Wales were poor against Italy, Atrocious against Ireland, and slightly above average against a French team that decided to roll over and die.
However, Wales have developed the knack of raising their game several levels when they play against us, and without Cole or Corbisiero, Adam Jones and Jenkins will be relishing the scrum.
Jonathan Davies being back is huge for them, as not only is he a strong centre, he allows North to revert back to the wing.
Hopefully the tempo and dynamism of our game will be too much for them to cope with.
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Justice in that try for Care, Hibbert should have been yellow carded.
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Stupid penalty to concede.
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We're not getting to the breakdown quick enough.
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Great kick from Twelvetree's and brilliant instincts from Burrell.
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We have gifted Wales all of their 12 points here.
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Really sloppy to only be 5 points ahead.
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Given away so many silly penalties, they're very lucky not to have had hibbard given a yellow and north catching nowell and carrying him into touch was a shocker of a decision from the ref, it was so clear he tackled him in the air.
I'm pretty happy with things though, I just like to see someone stamp on Halfpenny's foot, this would be game over without him, 3 of those penalties would be out of range of almost anyone else.
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Our play when we're not giving away stupid penalties has been really good. Now come on England build a winning lead.
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Burrell and Lawes have been brilliant today.
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That was a comprehensive battering and we should have won by 20 plus points. Farrell, Lawes, Burrell, Twelvetrees, Launchbury and Care were all outstanding. Lovely to see us play an expansive game.
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I agree PWA, 2 best players on the pitch for me, Lawes is everywhere and Burrell is always at the centre of everything we do. Say it quietly but I'm not sure Manu is going to get his place back unless they move Burrell to 12 but that'd be harsh on Twelvetrees who's been getting better and better as the tournament has gone on.
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That was a comprehensive battering and we should have won by 20 plus points. Farrell, Lawes, Burrell, Twelvetrees, Launchbury and Care were all outstanding. Lovely to see us play an expansive game.
Wales are always going to be in a game whilst Halfpenny's around. However, that was a hammering in all but the score today.
I'm not sure what's happened to Westbury-on-Severn's finest (aka Cuthbert) but he didn't seem to want to tackle today and only seemed to go looking for the ball when the game was dead.
I'm still not convinced by Johnny May. Yes, he's quick but he's no strong enough to break thro' the defence.
Burrell and 36 look like they're forming a good centre partnership and Lawes has made to step up from just being a great athlete to now being a great rugby player.
More importantly, the Mightly Lyd beat Bracknell yesterday to just about seal promotion back up to National 3 South at the first attempt.
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Brilliant win, all the sweeter for knowing how bloody annoyed that lot over the border will be feeling, I love beating Wales way more than any other team as rugby is all they've got really. How Brown breaks through the first tackle every time is amazing. I'd stick with May as I love his weavy running and he brings something different to the party. I do wonder about Nowell though who looks a bit naive at this level. The rest, Hartley's stupid errors aside, were brilliant. And to think some people were watching Hull vs Sunderland instead of this!!
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That was a comprehensive battering and we should have won by 20 plus points. Farrell, Lawes, Burrell, Twelvetrees, Launchbury and Care were all outstanding. Lovely to see us play an expansive game.
Wales are always going to be in a game whilst Halfpenny's around. However, that was a hammering in all but the score today.
I'm not sure what's happened to Westbury-on-Severn's finest (aka Cuthbert) but he didn't seem to want to tackle today and only seemed to go looking for the ball when the game was dead.
I'm still not convinced by Johnny May. Yes, he's quick but he's no strong enough to break thro' the defence.
Burrell and 36 look like they're forming a good centre partnership and Lawes has made to step up from just being a great athlete to now being a great rugby player.
More importantly, the Mightly Lyd beat Bracknell yesterday to just about seal promotion back up to National 3 South at the first attempt.
For me May is an impact option from the bench at this level, his pace is terrifying and he runs some good lines but his decision making isn't good enough at the moment, I think he's behind Yarde for the left wing shirt but he's a bit more verstile than Nowell or Wade so when everyone is fit he might be a good option on the bench. I wouldn't want to make a call on Wade or Nowell, Wade scores more but Nowell has the shirt and has done well.
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I agree PWA, 2 best players on the pitch for me, Lawes is everywhere and Burrell is always at the centre of everything we do. Say it quietly but I'm not sure Manu is going to get his place back unless they move Burrell to 12 but that'd be harsh on Twelvetrees who's been getting better and better as the tournament has gone on.
I agree, but what an impact player to have coming off the bench. I'm thinking of a fully fit side of something like -
Brown
Wade May
Burrell
Twelvetrees
Farrell
Care
Wood Billy Robshaw
Lawes Launchbury
Corbs Hartley Cole
Then a bench including a selection of Mako, Manu, Yarde, Ford, Watson, Attwood, Kvesic, Youngs, Morgan etc.
We have serious strength in depth and a bench that could make a significant impact on a game. Our style of play is evolving into a much more expansive game and as we gain experience we'll cut out the silly penalties. Whisper it quietly but this England set up very much has a good chance in the World Cup and beyond.
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I'd definitely have Wade over Nowell, purely on the basis that Wade is a natural finisher.
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A most excellent afternoon spent in the company of Welshists at my local rugby club, a sound beating, could and should have been by 10 more points, Wales offered little and got what they deserved, nothing. Can't remember the last time the Welsh midfield were so piss poor.
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Just got in from watching England beat Wales, pretty comprehensively IMO. (I've had a few beers, so excuse the ramblings) :)
Mike Brown was, again, fantastic.
But, Courtney Laws was absolutely awesome.
Couldn't find a relevant thread, so please merge if needed.
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Very sloppy performance if the truth be told. They were there for the taking and we could have given them a real beating and I think a more cohesive, experienced unit would have. That's to take nothing away from that attacking intent, even from inside our own 22 and you could see Wales were wary of it,. But all of Wales points come from stupid penalties. The sort of stuff you wouldn't expect to see at level lower than The English Premiership.
I put that down to over-eagerness. I think that's something that they will learn. And I also think that's why they deserve, ultimately, not to win the title this year. Although the Triple Crown is a encouraging as it is to threatening to other teams. We deserve to come up just short this season for the silly mistakes. But, this team has the potential to be a whole lot more.
Lawes was stand-out. Absolutely brilliant. He has become the player the hype told us to expect and has been awesome. Carries on in this vein of form and his legacy will outstrip Johnson's if we win the next World Cup and because of him, and I believe it would be, we won the one after that. I will say that as well as Lawes as being playing Robshaw is crucial to this team. You can see that Lancaster called it right with him.
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Think you're being very harsh, I agree the penalties were sloppy but the performance on the whole was excellent. We absolutely battered Wales and showed an expansive game which is developing rapidly.
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Think you're being very harsh, I agree the penalties were sloppy but the performance on the whole was excellent. We absolutely battered Wales and showed an expansive game which is developing rapidly.
Agree, Wales hardly threatened the England line, and had they not got a top drawer kicker, in Leigh Halfpenny, three of the penalties would have been out of range.
I refer to Scotland v France, had Halfpenny, or Owen Farrell, been playing for Scotland, Scotland would have beaten France.
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The killer is losing to France when we never should have. However England are already a good side and I fully believe we'll go on to be great.
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Think you're being very harsh, I agree the penalties were sloppy but the performance on the whole was excellent. We absolutely battered Wales and showed an expansive game which is developing rapidly.
Agree, Wales hardly threatened the England line, and had they not got a top drawer kicker, in Lee Halfpenny, three of the penalties would have been out of range.
I refer to Scotland v France, had Halfpenny, or Owen Farrell, been playing for Scotland, Scotland would have beaten France.
But this kind of backing up my point. defensively we did well the few times we had to but we then rushed our attacking play and handed the ball back to Wales. We conceded almost immediately after every time we scored. Defensively poor in midfield I thought too and poor Welsh play cost them one, if not, tries. But yes we're a team that will improve in this area.
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I don't think we're defensively poor in the midfield. The way we stopped Wales' main attacking plan was very impressive.
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Lots of sad welsh faces in Hereford tonight. Agree with pretty much everything said. To reiterate, what an athlete Laws is,Brown always gets over the gain line and we really do have the basis of a good squad now. As others have said but for fifteen minutes of silliness in the France game we have been the best and most consistent side by some distance.
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"We've tried to remove the fear of failure and go out and play," admitted Lancaster afterwards. "While your heart is in your mouth a bit, and sometimes we played in the wrong areas, our intent got its reward."
I think those quotes show where Lancaster wants to go, he's a very impressive coach.
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Burrell's excellent performances have now created a situation where Manu could be used as a pretty devastating impact sub in the last 20 minutes.
Any coach would sell their own grandmother for that option.
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The disallowed Burrell try was the moment of the match for me, the skill levels from Lawes and Burrell in the build-up were above anything we'd have seen from England in the past, Lawes catch and pass in particular was exceptional.
Penalties - giving away 3-4 in the kicking range of someone like Halfpenny is pretty much a given so we only gave a couple of extras away. When you then take into account that 2 were highly debatable it looks a lot less like something to beat England with.
The debatable ones:
1. Lawes getting back to his feet. The tackler has to be holding you whilst you have a knee on the floor to 'complete' the tackle, for me that wasn't the case, the tackle was made, contact broke and then once Lawes was back up the guy grabbed his foot, I think they got that one wrong.
2. Hartley taking the man in the air, for me this was a misapplication of the law, Falatau jumped into Hartley as much as anything, ruling this as a penalty is basically saying that if you get a bit of a hospital ball and you're going to get clattered as you take it you should jump as you make the catch so you get a penalty, which is clearly wrong. Add to this the fact that North clearly caught Nowell and carried him in to touch earlier in the game and I think this one was poor.
Whilst I'm on the ref I thought the yellow card (to me Wilson suckered him into it) was harsh but more importantly how fucking stupid is Gethin Jenkins? If the ref has warned you twice to drive straight you make sure you're whiter than white for the next couple of scrums.
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spot on paul_e, the ref warned them a few times about driving straight in the scrum, Jenkins was either driving upwards or at an angle.
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Agree re the Lawes 'tackle' he wasnt tackled, he was being held onto after an intitial tackle attempt was made, Hartleys taking the man in the air was as ridiculous a decision as you could wish for.
I have to say I was worried about the England scrum before the game and sure enough, first scrum Wales got the nudge on and it looked like it was going to be their day. They managed to cheat their way, or at least get every single decision at the scrum go their way in Cardiff last year, glad to see a few wrongs put right out there yesterday.
Worst thing about BBC 6 Nations coverage still has to be having to listen to Jonathan Davies during half time and post match, he's like an annoying smurf on helium, smug little twat had the grin wiped off his face yesterday.
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All rugby coverage is the same, the English guys try their hardest to be neutral, to the point of favouring the opposition the rest make no attempt to do the same if they're from whoever we're playing.
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Davies is a particularly annoying little turd mind.
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While were on the coverage, why the heck would you interview Savage and Barton at half time, they know less than Eddie Butler.
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All rugby coverage is the same, the English guys try their hardest to be neutral, to the point of favouring the opposition the rest make no attempt to do the same if they're from whoever we're playing.
I have a lot of time for Keith Wood. Always comes across as a very decent bloke, and certainly not a flag-waver.
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All rugby coverage is the same, the English guys try their hardest to be neutral, to the point of favouring the opposition the rest make no attempt to do the same if they're from whoever we're playing.
Saying that, Brian Moore cannot help himself, England through and through.
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Brian Moore is about the only English commentator that comes across as proudly English, Wood is better than most but he's very pro-Irish still.
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Brian Moore is proudly English, but he will criticise England a lot as well.
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Criticising poor play is fine, it's when commentators ignore things that I get annoyed, George North tackling Nowell in mid-air was a good example, it was like the 3rd replay before anyone mentioned it, yet the falatau one which was a lot more dubious got instant support from everyone.
It annoys me because if you spend time around other rugby supporters (particularly the Welsh and Scottish) they'll always talk about how hard done by they are and how arrogant the English are but the reality is that hasn't been the case for years, it's pretty much the exact opposite now.
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Brian Moore has toned it down a fair bit since qualifying as a referee to be fair.
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Criticising poor play is fine, it's when commentators ignore things that I get annoyed, George North tackling Nowell in mid-air was a good example, it was like the 3rd replay before anyone mentioned it, yet the falatau one which was a lot more dubious got instant support from everyone.
It annoys me because if you spend time around other rugby supporters (particularly the Welsh and Scottish) they'll always talk about how hard done by they are and how arrogant the English are but the reality is that hasn't been the case for years, it's pretty much the exact opposite now.
I agree the Nowell incident was so strange, I was instantly infuriated but the lack of comment towards it made me think that I had got something wrong.
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I agree PWA, 2 best players on the pitch for me, Lawes is everywhere and Burrell is always at the centre of everything we do. Say it quietly but I'm not sure Manu is going to get his place back unless they move Burrell to 12 but that'd be harsh on Twelvetrees who's been getting better and better as the tournament has gone on.
I agree, but what an impact player to have coming off the bench. I'm thinking of a fully fit side of something like -
Brown
Wade May
Burrell
Twelvetrees
Farrell
Care
Wood Billy Robshaw
Lawes Launchbury
Corbs Hartley Cole
Then a bench including a selection of Mako, Manu, Yarde, Ford, Watson, Attwood, Kvesic, Youngs, Morgan etc.
We have serious strength in depth and a bench that could make a significant impact on a game. Our style of play is evolving into a much more expansive game and as we gain experience we'll cut out the silly penalties. Whisper it quietly but this England set up very much has a good chance in the World Cup and beyond.
Looks like we'll see what impact Manu can have off the bench at the weekend, him in for Goode is the only change to the 23, I'm very happy with that, Lancaster had clearly lost faith in Goode with him not getting off the bench 2 games running, I hope that's the last we see of him in the England squad, very good club player but too slow and too weak in the tackle to be an international fullback.
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For once I'm pleased that our game was put back to 5:30.
Down the British Oak for England, 12:30 ko.
Get home in plenty of time for a quick snack before setting off to Villa Park.
Perfect, just perfect ;D
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Manu being on the bench is a great improvement on Goode.
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Brilliant from Burrell and Brown again, great try.
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Started a bit too expansive trying to play it wide without earning the right but after the first try we've looked dominant. We've ran them all over the pitch and got them looking tired already, with Dickson, Ford and Manu on the bench we can put on a huge score from here. It's a shame our forward options on the bench aren't as good as they have been, If we had Marler and Billy V fit we'd have massive impact in the forwards as well.
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Brilliant from Burrell and Brown again, great try.
Hey... what... when did this kick off..... I thought it was 3pm
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I have no idea why Burrell was taken off there, that doesn't bode well, twelvetrees off and Burrell inside was the obvious change.
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Brilliant from Burrell and Brown again, great try.
Hey... what... when did this kick off..... I thought it was 3pm
12.30
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Good win but I'm disappointed with the subs, moving Farrell to 12 was clearly to keep him on to kick points, I have no idea why Wood or Burrell came off, Youngs came on 10-15 too early and I cant decide if Care came off too soon as well.
The Burrell change was the key one for me, twelvetrees and Manu offer a lot of good things but neither of them has a particularly good offloading game and we should've built our attack around that in the last half an hour when Italy were clearly out on their feet.
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I'm very content how we are moving forward. Was lucky enough to be at Twickenham last weekend and it was a superb effort by the team, probably only downside was not winning by enough. Yes today was frustrating at times, but I think that came from trying to force 50 points too early.
Been a bot of a critic of Lancaster but I love the way we are now embracing this "all court" game and not afraid too play. Agree with Paul that Burrell shouldn't have been the one too make way, although Manu was devastating. Lovely little glimpse of what Ford can offer right at the end and as well as Farrell is playing, he has been superb this tournament, he doesn't offer that in his locker.
Two concerns have been the scrums all through, although when we made changes today it seemed to improve, we definitely miss Corbs and Cole there. Also as much as I like both May and Nowell, neither have really taken their chance this time around. So disappointed with May when I know he has everything in his locker, the amount of times he has cut inside has frustrated the hell out of me. I don't think either of them have nailed down the wing spots and I still see two of Wade, Yarde and Watson as starters.
Finally take a bow Mike Brown. Genuinely didn't think he had these performances in him, well done sir.
Future is bright for England Rugby I think
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I'm not overly worried about the scrum, it's the strongest part of the game for wales and italy and we've got 2 of the best props in the world out injured.
Lancaster has definitely improved but he still doesn't seem to have worked out exactly how to use the backs, how much of that is down to the limitations of Farrell though I'm not sure. Ford showed exactly why I'm still not convinced Farrell is the long term solution at 10, Farrell has an excellent boot and his game management and defence are good but he doesn't threaten the line enough.
I agree totally on Brown, I was never shy in stating my opinion of him and I'm genuinely amazed at the step up from him, I have largely the same opinion of Care as well.
Man of the series (from England) is between Lawes, Burrell and Brown for me, slightly generous for Burrell but given he made his debut in the opener his performances have been special, across all of the teams he's definitely the 'rising star' from the tournament. The other 2 have been pretty much 10/10 in every game, I'd probably lean towards Lawes because he's done all the scrappy stuff but I'm worried that being a saints fan I'm slightly biased.
Across the entire squad the only person who's played and not done well is Goode who had a shocker against France and is largely responsible (along with Lancaster for thinking he was suitable cover for the back 3) for us not having a grand slam and the championship in the bag. I'd have liked to see Watson get his debut and Ford get a little more game time though.
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Just seen the red card from the wales vs scotland game, all I can say is 'what was he thinking?' It's brutal but more importantly utterly brainless.
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I thought we were very good after the first 10 minutes, it's a very difficult game to chase points. I was gutted when Burrell was brought off, as he is completely different to all our other centres. He's a super player and should be one of the first names on the team sheet. But overall we've made a lot of progress this 6 nations and Lancaster has made us a much more attacking side and we're developing very quickly.
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No doubt I'm biased, but I think there was a certain justice in O'Driscoll winning the championship in his last international. What a tense game though, unbearable at times.
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There's an element of that I didn't begrudge him winning it, but I think England were probably the best side and definitely have the most potential for continuous growth over the next few years.
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Not that fussed about not winning the Six Nations. We have the Triple Crown and unless it was a Grand Slam I'm not fussed about finishing first. Points difference in rugby is, well, pointless. Saying that I'd have preferred finishing first but that would have been statistical more than anything.
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My viewpoint is that this England team, at this very early stage of their development have absolutely no right to be as good as they currently are.
It is slightly annoying that we haven't won the grand slam this year, as we were pretty dominant at France barring the first 20 minutes. I do think however, that the main reason we haven't won the six nations is because of not putting the 45-50 points on the Scots that our performance really should have merited.
Fair play to Ireland, they beat France and we didn't. I've often thought about the merits of using the head to head tie break rather than points difference, but if France would have won on Saturday, under that system they would have won the title. No one would have believed that France deserved it.
Anyway, on to the WC and we really are going to go extremely close to winning it. Obviously need a lot more luck with injuries than we have recently had.
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The table sometimes lies. England were the best team this tournament, no doubt. This will be rectified next year hopefully.
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The table sometimes lies. England were the best team this tournament, no doubt. This will be rectified next year hopefully.
England were comfortably the best side in the tournament for 380 of the 400 minutes we played, the opening 20 against France cost us badly.
I also agree that we didn't get the score we should've against Scotland, another 20 points in that game would've have been flattering, it was genuinely the most dominant display I've seen in the 6N for years, be fair, Scotland were lucky to get 0.
For me:
Front Row - very strong depth, Mako and Youngs offer great impact from the bench. Hartley has taken the lions disappointment onboard and become a genuinely world class hooker, his line out work and play in the loose is immaculate, needs some work on his hooking in the scrum though (which is common because they haven't had to do it for years). Marler and Wilson have moved on from able deputies to being genuine challengers for the shirt. Cole was his excellent self before his injury.
2nd Row - For me this is the best part of the team, Lawes and Launchbury were superb, Attwood was excellent from the bench, I think we've got the best 2nd row in world rugby, all of them could play 6 at this level which makes us so strong in the loose. Lawes has become the best line out jumper in Europe.
Back row - Wood is the perfect 6, he does everything. Robshaw still has limitations on the floor but his work rate and tackling are superb and he's a very good captain. Billy V will go on to be one of the all time greats and Morgan is a fantastic impact option from the bench. No comment on Johnson as he barely played and isn't an impact player.
half backs - Farrell does what he does, great game management, impeccable kicking but questionable temperament and doesn't threaten the line enough. Care was excellent, seems to have finally grown up, I hope he keeps on track off the field as well. In backup I'd like to have seen more of Ford but his cameo against Italy was good and Dickson, like Farrell, did what he does, not quick enough to snipe around the fringe but offers great control and works very quick ball, both are great alternatives to the starters.
Centres - Twelvetrees was fine but struggled to really impose himself, made a few fairly basic errors but was generally good. Burrell was awesome, hit the ball at pace and regularly broke the line, freed his hands well too offload and create chances and his timing of passes is great as he always commits his defender, he was right up there with Lawes and Brown as our player of the tournament and I was gutted to not see him and Manu together for the last half hour.
Back 3 - Nowell looks like an international winger, made a few mistakes but learned from them and got better and better as the tournament went on. May... didn't. I like him but he ran into too many blind alleys and generally looked a little short of quality. Brown was superb, I had no idea he had that quality in him, if he can carry it on we have an exceptional fullback on our hands. Goode shouldn't make the squad again, too slow and defensively suspect.
For the summer I'd like to see Ford get more time, Burrell and Manu play together and Watson/Wade/Yarde get a go on the wing ahead of May. I also think we really need to give Kvesic some game time before the world cup, we have good options in every position in the pack except 7 and we need to get some game time for an alternative, right now a Robshaw injury would mean we'd either move Wood or play someone with 2 caps to his name, we know we have depth at 6 and 8 at the minute, we need to ensure that is in place at 7 as well. Finally I'd love to see Elliot Daly, Kyle Eastmond and/or Jonathan Jospeh get a chance in the centre, right now we have 3 big strong crash centres, they're all different but they all rely on their strength, I'd like to see a bit of guile in there as well and those 3 are best options for that right now.
Jonathan Davies has largely the same thoughts as me on most of these as well in his team of the tournament (http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/26603325) - I think Heaslip only got the vote at 8 because Billy got injured and BoD at 13 is clearly sentimental, he pretty much admits that, Burrell was the star at 13.
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How on earth Jonathan Davies can put any welsh backs in the team of the tournament is national bias and nothing else. Their back line against England was shambolic at best. I admit I didn't see the Scotland game but Scotland are a poor side with fifteen let alone fourteen.
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I'm really not sure on Nowell I think he lacks a finisher's instinct, he did ok but I wouldn't say he's shown he's definitely going to be international class.
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George North is there on merit, when they've got the ball to him he's been very good. I'm not sure why Roberts is in though, he's been one of the key reasons that North hasn't had more ball, he's a very powerful but incredibly 1 dimensional centre, much like Basteraud. That said the centres in general have been pretty poor in the tournament, Burrell was the best, BoD was good but not as dynamic as he was a few years ago (understandably) after that Scotland, Wales, Italy and France all had poor tournaments in the centres (Fickou looked a class above the rest of the French backs but didn't play enough), D'arcy and Twelvetrees both had average tournaments as well, to be honest the tournament was dominated by the forwards, with most teams looking very good upfront.
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Worcester throw it away in the last minute as Wasps go in. 11-13.
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Big defeat for Saints today, I hope they get things back on track next week.
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Watched Saints vs Tigers whilst flicking to the cricket, Saints seem to have been badly effected by the internationals, hopefully they'll get back on track soon.
However, I'd like to know how wayne barnes didn't see a high, straight arm to the face as a yellow card offence. There are a lot of things to like about Manu but his poor tackling technique and untamed aggression aren't amongst them, good job Waller is a tough cookie, he could've seriously hurt him, I wouldn't be surprised to see that one get cited, I doubt there'll be a ban as it wasn't a red card offence but I can see him getting a slap on the wrist.
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You're making the mistake of trying to apply the laws of the game to Leicester. They're above them.
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Warriors finally win a game - won away at Newcastle 17-12.
9 points behind Falcons
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You're making the mistake of trying to apply the laws of the game to Leicester. They're above them.
Indeed, it seemed to have changed a bit earlier in the season but recently every 50/50 has gone their way again. Another one they got away with every time was not releasing the tackle before playing the ball, and then the saints player getting pulled up for not releasing the ball. Slater is a master at that one, he managed to sneak a couple of very cheap penalties like that yesterday. The penalty from the scrum in the 2nd half was typical Leicester as well, tight head and hooker turn across to force the wheel and then the back 5 straighten, the whole thing falls apart and they make a big deal of blaming the opposition, it resets, they repeat and get the penalty. I don't understand how the refs can be so stupid to fall for it, they've done that same move for 20years.
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The Mighty Lyd are champions of SSE National 3 South West
http://www.gloucestercitizen.co.uk/Lydney-Rugby-Club-National-South-West-champions/story-20882056-detail/story.html
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Goode has just had a horrible injury.
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really nasty collision that led to that, I can see the anti-english brigade is already out in force on the internet claiming that it wasn't a red card. First rule of chasing a high ball is that jump so if there is a collision you're not tipping the guy up, as soon as Goode landed it was always going to be red, all the excuses will be that he had his eyes on the ball but that doesn't stop running into a man who's in the air like that incredibly dangerous. Fair play to Ulster for doing what they could to keep it competitive though.
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Indeed, the Ulster player never jumped and has a duty of care to the jumper. Not malicious but a red all the same. Brave refereeing.
Glos Bath saturday ....our Father, Who art in heaven .....
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Indeed, the Ulster player never jumped and has a duty of care to the jumper. Not malicious but a red all the same. Brave refereeing.
Glos Bath saturday ....our Father, Who art in heaven .....
You wouldn't believe how many people I've seen commenting on it who don't understand that 'duty of care' concept.
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I am going to the Gloucester game at the weekend.
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We'll let's hope they put the Wasps game behind them and win, ideally then win at Twickenham next week (Ill be there) then top 7 and play off for HC next season.
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I really want to watch the game at the weekend but I don't have any internet at home yet, it's very frustrating. I think this will be a belter.
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I was at Palace so can someone fill me in on events at Kingsholm?
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I was at Palace so can someone fill me in on events at Kingsholm?
I watched the highlights earlier.
Looked like a classic West Country encounter
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It was a crap game and the ref completely lost control. He was making it up as he went along for the last 15 or 20 minutes.
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My team crowned champions.
http://www.redditchstandard.co.uk/2014/04/14/sport-Woodrush-power-to-title-triumph-103798.html#.U0vDGQGRge0.facebook
Wonderful for the club.
Rollercoaster last few seasons, but the hard work has paid off.
Would have loved to have been part of this squad, there are some fabulous players, but at over 50 I'd really be pushing the 'Experienced Player' line ::)
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My team crowned champions.
http://www.redditchstandard.co.uk/2014/04/14/sport-Woodrush-power-to-title-triumph-103798.html#.U0vDGQGRge0.facebook
Wonderful for the club.
Rollercoaster last few seasons, but the hard work has paid off.
Would have loved to have been part of this squad, there are some fabulous players, but at over 50 I'd really be pushing the 'Experienced Player' line ::)
Well done!
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Congratulations. My last club (Old Yards) are currently sitting top of the league you're moving into and with a couple of games in hand so they'll almost certainly move into midlands 2, which will be a big achievement for them, they've done a lot of work at colts and youth level though so they deserve the success.
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Congratulations. My last club (Old Yards) are currently sitting top of the league you're moving into and with a couple of games in hand so they'll almost certainly move into midlands 2, which will be a big achievement for them, they've done a lot of work at colts and youth level though so they deserve the success.
Excellent.
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Good to see Moseley finishing mid-table in the English Champions. Given the money teams in that division have in comparison it's a worthwhile achievement. They beat the teams around them that have as much, or less financially, than Moseley which was a great effort from them.
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Good to see Moseley finishing mid-table in the English Champions. Given the money teams in that division have in comparison it's a worthwhile achievement. They beat the teams around them that have as much, or less financially, than Moseley which was a great effort from them.
The city of Birmingham really should be able to support a top level team. If it does ever happen, I hope that its Moseley that gets the injection of funds required.
We ("the Mighty Lyd") used to play Moseley regularly, including at least one great cup encounter at their place.
I miss a proper National Rugby Cup. Now, it order to even compete for a chance to reach a cup final you have to either be a top team or just a local village outfit. There's no competition for clubs of Lyd's level.
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So Nigel Davies departs from Gloucester, he seemed like a nice chap. Unfortunately 8 wins from 22 is not good enough and he has carried the can. I hope some of the squad are feeling sheepish today.
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So Nigel Davies departs from Gloucester, he seemed like a nice chap. Unfortunately 8 wins from 22 is not good enough and he has carried the can. I hope some of the squad are feeling sheepish today.
No one to blame but himself though really. That front 5 isn't fit for the league and just made the jobs of the back row and backs too difficult. They've got some really exciting players but they've been on the back foot all season. Ironically he'd addressed the problem with some really good signings for next year but it was always going to be a big ask for him to keep the job after the season they've had.
Moving on, I'm still backing Saints for the title, Saturday was a masterclass, Leicester is always a tough game for them but I fancy them to get through and if they do I think they'll beat Sarries or Quins inn the final.
Gutted for Bath, after the season they've had they deserved to make the playoffs.
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I have never, ever felt sympathy for Bath. Can't see anyone beating Saracens tbh.
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I have never, ever felt sympathy for Bath. Can't see anyone beating Saracens tbh.
The Heineken cup final is the issue, I can see them either letting their eye off the ball against quins or struggling to lift themselves in the final (regardless of the result in europe). A few sides have fluffed the playoffs because of europe in the past and it really wouldn't shock me.
Aside from that, Northampton blew Sarries away in the autumn match at franklins gardens. I know Sarries then won the return game but it was a very tight affair and Saints were a bit off-colour trying to reintegrate their internationals at the time, at the weekend they were back to the style of rugby that they were playing earlier in the year and which is very effective against Sarries. I'm genuinely more worried about getting past Leicester.
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Leicester won't go down without a fight or without trying to intimidate and dupe the ref.
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Leicester won't go down without a fight or without trying to intimidate and dupe the ref.
Exactly.
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Looks like Cipriani is going to get a recall for England, which is a fantastic decision, he's been superb for the last 5-6 months and hopefully he's grown up enough to realise that this is a very important opportunity. For all the good goal kicking I'm still not convinced Farrell is in the same class as the likes of Sexton right now.
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Cipriani will be an interesting option, and good to see Lancaster not closing the door on people.
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I really like the idea of: care, cips, burrell and manu, there's a great baance to that side, add brown at the back and, for me, Yarde and Ashton outside and we'll rip teams to bits.
I know Ashton is a controversial one but with the offloading games of cipriani and burrell and him looking to be back to his best hes worth another shot.
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Ashton has been excellent this year and has earned a recall.
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Good to see Cowan-Dickie get a call up to the training squad as well, With Hartley and Youngs both struggling for fitness we've got a chance to look at the depth of options at hooker and, to me, Cowan-Dickie looks a really good prospect.
Oh, and Dan Robson is there which is a good call, he's a great young 9 who will just get better and better.
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WOOOOO
Fuck you tigers and you're dirty shitty approach to the game. Brilliant 2nd half from Saints.
How the fuck was Gonova not sent off, 2 clear yellows in the 2nd half and the ref let him off both times but who cares, the best team won.
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Indeed how Gonova didn't walk is a mystery. Oh no it isn't he plays for Leicester. Let's hope it's not taken too much out of them for the final.
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didn't watch the game today but that's a really good win for sarries, the final is going to be awesome, 2 teams that don't know when they've lost, both with excellent packs, creativity in the midfield and quality finishers out wide, really looking forward to it.
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Ford out of the NZ tour, looks like Cipriani will be jumping to the front of the queue for the 1st Test.
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Bad news for Ford but I like that fact that it forces them to give Cipriani some significant game time. We really need an option at 10 who can change the game, for all his kicking excellence and game management Farrell doesn't have the flair or pace to frighten a top side, Ford, Burns and Cipriani might have and all of them need game time before the World Cup.
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I really like Burns, but I'm curious to see how Cirpriani has matured and there isn't much of a tougher place to be tested.
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Leicester announce Burns signing 6 months after he agreed to join them following illegal approach.
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it was a banker he was going there, from an England point of view I just hope he plays, Leicester have ruined a few English youngsters by signing them and then leaving them on the bench for a couple of years.
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I hope he rots there, at that putrid, over bearing classless club.
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That's fair, the whole thing has been pretty shitty for glaws, the worst thing is I think the front 5 will work next year and whoever plays 10 will have a much better platform, and with the options outside it could be a really good team to be the 10 for next season.
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Cole out until November, our tour to NZ is looking quite worrying at the moment.
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Better this summer than next. I have no problem with Thomas and Wilson sharing the duties for the summer and autumn. We really need to get to the point where we have 2-3 players we trust in every position so we can have some actual selection headaches for the world cup. It's the same reason why I'd give Robshaw a rest for at least one of the games and why I don't mind Hartley being out. An injury to Farrell at some point to give him the summer off wouldn't be a bad thing either.
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Yay, first half of the double complete, Saints win the Amlin cup, excellent 2nd half again.
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So, over to Jonny to do the business tonight.
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I hope Barnes isn't right and Barritt will be battling Burrell for the jersey in NZ. Burrell offers so so so much more than him.
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What an absolute top class professional Jonny Wilkinson is. A rare breed, an Englishman who always performs on the top stage.
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Indeed and interestingly you can see his successor Farrell is developing his game as he matures.
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This will be some finale to Wilkinson's incredible career, obviously there's a game next week but he's just an incredible player.
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This will be some finale to Wilkinson's incredible career, obviously there's a game next week but he's just an incredible player.
Absolute legend. Shame he had the injuries he did because he could have challenged Carter for top international points scorer. The injuries he had were predominantly from being over committed in the tackle.
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Wilkinson was exceptional today, fantastic player.
Farrell showed why he's not world class right now, he's just not got that extra bit of quality that you need to break down a top defence.
More importantly though, Steffon Armitage showed why he needs to given a chance for England, he was easily the best player on the pitch, truly brilliant performance.
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I think Farrell is getting there, he improves and most importantly learns every time I see him. We need Armitage in the England squad, he's a fantastic player.
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I think Farrell is getting there, he improves and most importantly learns every time I see him. We need Armitage in the England squad, he's a fantastic player.
Farrel will get there and has all the attributes to be world class. He should have had a yellow though today and can be pretty petulant which he really needs to cut it out.
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I do think we need to make an exception on the rule of playing outside England for Steffon Armitage. He is a hell of a player and he needs to be involved.
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I do think we need to make an exception on the rule of playing outside England for Steffon Armitage. He is a hell of a player and he needs to be involved.
Don't watch a lot of club rugby though Armitage was different class today. He bossed our "English" no.8 which is bloody ridiculous that we are poaching players from abroad when we have quality home grown talent already in those positions.
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He's a super player at the breakdown. Billy is a fantastic player as well and Armitage isn't a number 8.
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He's a super player at the breakdown. Billy is a fantastic player as well and Armitage isn't a number 8.
He may not be a no.8 but he was top draw today and we have Ben Morgan who is a quality English player. I know it's within the international rules but for me the rules need to be tightened up for everyone and that applies to New Zealand too.
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I'm fine with the international rules, Billy will be amazing for us for years. I do think we need to make sure we have our best players though and Steffon Armitage is one of those.
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I'm fine with the international rules, Billy will be amazing for us for years. I do think we need to make sure we have our best players though and Steffon Armitage is one of those.
Don't you think it belittles the international game though? Football isn't anywhere near as bad and England especially have been pretty good with not drafting in foreign nationals. It's as they said when Billy got his first England cap,he comes from a long line of International rugby stars but they all played for New Zealand. It's not just rugby mind you have got the same problem with England cricket.
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I'm happy enough, he moved to England as a child and grew up here.
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The vunipola's were both pre-schoolers when they moved to the UK, pretty much the only country they'll remember living in is the UK, they are also both full UK citizens. There is no problem with either of them for me. I have a much bigger issue with people who come over a lot older.
I think Farrell has got the potential to be very good but he's never going to have the spark of brilliance that Burns or Cipriani can bring.
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Was out for the day and left my tivo box recording the final, it finished just before the froch fight so only just getting round to posting. I'm absolutely exhausted after that final, what a truly fantastic match. 2 very strong sides, but Northampton always had that little bit extra with the ball in hand.
Myler got the official man of the match but I think that was a mistake, Luther Burrell was immense, as good a centre performance as you'll see, broke the line every time he carried, ran brilliant support lines, tackled excellently and showed he passes (and sees the chances) superbly.
That sarries were the team that got beaten in the last seconds of extra time makes it all the sweeter.
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Was out for the day and left my tivo box recording the final, it finished just before the froch fight so only just getting round to posting. I'm absolutely exhausted after that final, what a truly fantastic match. 2 very strong sides, but Northampton always had that little bit extra with the ball in hand.
Myler got the official man of the match but I think that was a mistake, Luther Burrell was immense, as good a centre performance as you'll see, broke the line every time he carried, ran brilliant support lines, tackled excellently and showed he passes (and sees the chances) superbly.
That sarries were the team that got beaten in the last seconds of extra time makes it all the sweeter.
I am certainly not an 'officianado' of rugby( i don't understand all the rules) - i enjoy the Premiership and 6 nations but i have to agree today was a marvellous match and Burrell was the MOM.
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It may have slipped under the radar, but, Jonny Wilkinson has retired after a fantastic season at Toulon.
He was, in my opinion, the best ever player to wear the England shirt.
http://www.rugbyonslaught.com/2014/06/rfu-tribute-to-jonny-wilkinson.html
Tried adding a YouTube link, but, wouldn't load :-[
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Definitely hasn't slipped under the radar. He is one of the icons of English rugby, it's him and Johnson at the top for me.
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Definitely hasn't slipped under the radar. He is one of the icons of English rugby, it's him and Johnson at the top for me.
Add Will Greenwood and Richard Hill to that, those 4 were the best in the world in their positions for 3-4 years in the build up to the world cup win, Hill was the dog in the team that did all the unseen work to make the rest look as good as they did and Greenwood was the genius that opened defenses for us.
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They were both fantastic players, but the reason I said icon is for the general public perception as well.
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I agree, they were the 2 that were easily 'spotted' by the casual fans, just pointing out the other 2 as being just as important, the rest of that side was excellent as well but those 4 were a level above.
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The reason I think Jonny was the best is because he could have played any of the positions 4 - 15 and given his opposite number a proper game. I rule out 1-3 because they play a different game to the others ;)
I can't think of any player in World rugby who could do that.
Another favourite was Jason Robinson
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The reason I think Jonny was the best is because he could have played any of the positions 4 - 15 and given his opposite number a proper game. I rule out 1-3 because they play a different game to the others ;)
I can't think of any player in World rugby who could do that.
Another favourite was Jason Robinson
He couldn't have played 4, 5 or 8. He'd have been an ok 6 or 7 (which is largely in line with what you say) and I'm not sure he was quick enough to play 11 or 14.
I do get the point though, very strong defender, very clever player and good at all the basics.
I think there's a few playing now who could do the same, Wood and Burrell could easily swap roles and be top domestic players, for example.
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Interesting watching the match vs the Baa Baas the other day how well Slade played at 10. I'm quite surprised he didn't get a ticket to NZ, though maybe they're holding him back for the future.
Have to say that whatever NZ and the WC throw up, the future beyond is looking very bright indeed, a lot of quality players. Elliot Daly is another one who should be near the squad.
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Slade's an excellent player, but then so are Farrell, Ford, Myler and Burns (Burns had a poor season behind a weak pack and with all the unrest over his move but he had a superb tour in Argentina) who are all in front of him. I'm surprised Daly didn't go though, fantastic player, he's probably the most skillful player in English rugby right now, just a bit suspect in defence at times. Him and Anthony Watson will breakthrough fully after the world cup and will both be mainstays in the team for years once they do.
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Yep, exciting times now that we have some proper young flyers around the squad. If you think of how many injuries we have you begin to see just how much strength in depth there is.
Where would you put Slade in that list Paul?
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Well Glos have signed Hook as fly half who along with Laidlaw, Afoa, Hibbard, Tom Palmer makes for an exciting next season. Just need a coach now.
To be honest I think Hook will be a cracking player. Apparently Davies wanted Laidlaw to play 10, and the owners didn't think that was a good idea and hastened his departure.
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6th because I missed out Cipriani.
For me, on form currently:
Cipriani (h'es looked the special talent everyone knew he was this season and deserves a shot)
Farrell/Ford (I really can't pick between them, both classy kickers, both have great game management, Ford is more of a gainline threat but Farrell spots things very quickly and is willing to put some air on the ball)
Myler (not the most creative but is the best kicker in the country right now)
Burns (needs to work on his game management and kicking but easily the most exciting 10 we have)
Slade (has all the talent but is still very young and has as many bad games as good)
Our strength in depth is phenomenal right now, that team on saturday was 5th and 6th choices in almost every position and only the brilliance of Gear out wide made a difference.
The best thing is, we have some special talent in the youth age groups as well, for the U20 we have Itoje in the 2nd row and Nathan Earle at wing/fullback who will both break-through in the next few years (Itoje in particular is going to be special, 6'5 built like a shed at 18 but very quick and with great skills*).
* note the lack of a "for a forward" qualifier, it's not needed.
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Well Glos have signed Hook as fly half who along with Laidlaw, Afoa, Hibbard, Tom Palmer makes for an exciting next season. Just need a coach now.
To be honest I think Hook will be a cracking player. Apparently Davies wanted Laidlaw to play 10, and the owners didn't think that was a good idea and hastened his departure.
Good signing, not sure about laidlaw though. I understand the need to replace Cowan but I think Robson could've done that easily enough, I hope whoever they get in rotates them properly because it would be a huge shame to see Robson starved of gametime.
To save having to quote myself, I've just noticed Nathan Earle got a hattrickin the JWC game against Italy, no surprise there, he's rapid and a very good finisher.
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I agree, they were the 2 that were easily 'spotted' by the casual fans, just pointing out the other 2 as being just as important, the rest of that side was excellent as well but those 4 were a level above.
Disagree. I think the casual fans were all too aware of Greenwood and Hill.
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I agree, they were the 2 that were easily 'spotted' by the casual fans, just pointing out the other 2 as being just as important, the rest of that side was excellent as well but those 4 were a level above.
Disagree. I think the casual fans were all too aware of Greenwood and Hill.
Depends how casual I guess. I know a lot of guys I used to play football with who'd have been able to name Johnson, Wilkinson and Robinson but wouldn't have a clue about anyone else, despite watching the whole of that tournament with me.
Seeing as we're talking about greenwood, I can't miss an opportunity to link this:
19 seconds in, easily my favourite try of all time, there's only a handful of players ever who'd have even considered that.
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Sounds like Burns and Eastmond will start. I'm quite excited to see Eastmond given a chance, but not sure about Burns due to form.
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I agree, they were the 2 that were easily 'spotted' by the casual fans, just pointing out the other 2 as being just as important, the rest of that side was excellent as well but those 4 were a level above.
Disagree. I think the casual fans were all too aware of Greenwood and Hill.
Depends how casual I guess. I know a lot of guys I used to play football with who'd have been able to name Johnson, Wilkinson and Robinson but wouldn't have a clue about anyone else, despite watching the whole of that tournament with me.
Seeing as we're talking about greenwood, I can't miss an opportunity to link this:
19 seconds in, easily my favourite try of all time, there's only a handful of players ever who'd have even considered that.
5:32 - How f**kin' fast is Jason Robinson?
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Bloody hell, the rugby season is still going on. It's the second leg of the Bristol v Oxford Welsh playoff tonight.
It's June fer fecks sake.
When I used to arrange the fixtures for The Mighty Lyd (back in the pre-league days), the season ran Sep through Apr and that was it.
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Oxford Welsh are back in the Premiership
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Hope Care is fit, it's going to be a real struggle this game. I'm quite surprised that Burns is starting.
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Hope Care is fit, it's going to be a real struggle this game. I'm quite surprised that Burns is starting.
I'm not, Lancaster has shown that he's willing to be loyal to people who've had a dip in form, particularly when it's related to off field stuff (he stuck with Ashton through the move to sarries where he was struggling). I expect Cipriani to get about half an hour regardless.
Care will be a big blow, I'm really unconvinced by Ben Youngs and to expect Dickson to come on and have an impact 3 days after he arrives is a massive ask. I'm not sure how it could've been done otherwise but having 2 scrum halves there for the first test and then 4 joining the squad seems a big risks, maybe they should have started Robson and had another option on the bench for the barbarians game so Simpson could travel as cover.
Either way, for me the first test is about damage limitation. Looking at it objectively there are 9 players in our squad who would make our strongest 23man squad. 2-3 of the other 14 probably wouldn't make the world cup squad right now with them being down at 4th or 5th choice in their position. If we can stay within 2 converted tries of them it's a good performance for me. With our best 23 and their best 23 I think it's a close game though and I think we can make up for this first match in the next 2 but we'll need to keep people fit and have a few top performers.
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Hope Care is fit, it's going to be a real struggle this game. I'm quite surprised that Burns is starting.
I'm not, Lancaster has shown that he's willing to be loyal to people who've had a dip in form, particularly when it's related to off field stuff (he stuck with Ashton through the move to sarries where he was struggling). I expect Cipriani to get about half an hour regardless.
Care will be a big blow, I'm really unconvinced by Ben Youngs and to expect Dickson to come on and have an impact 3 days after he arrives is a massive ask. I'm not sure how it could've been done otherwise but having 2 scrum halves there for the first test and then 4 joining the squad seems a big risks, maybe they should have started Robson and had another option on the bench for the barbarians game so Simpson could travel as cover.
Either way, for me the first test is about damage limitation. Looking at it objectively there are 9 players in our squad who would make our strongest 23man squad. 2-3 of the other 14 probably wouldn't make the world cup squad right now with them being down at 4th or 5th choice in their position. If we can stay within 2 converted tries of them it's a good performance for me. With our best 23 and their best 23 I think it's a close game though and I think we can make up for this first match in the next 2 but we'll need to keep people fit and have a few top performers.
I'm staggered Burns is starting. Cipriani has been one of the main reasons that Sale improved last season over the previous season. It bodes poorly for Cipriani's chances of staying in the squad next season - Farrell & Ford are nailed on with now Myler & Burns fighting to be 3rd choice in my opinion. I would have started Cipriani and given Burns time off the bench.
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Burns has had a poor season, that's undeniable, but he was superb last summer. Cipriani will get a chance on this tour and in the autumn and I think Myler will get a chance as well. The problem is he's invested so much in Farrell so far that we're running short of time to give the other guys an 'audition' for the world cup.
It's the same problem at 7. If robshaw were to pick up an injury next summer and miss the world cup we'd be fucked because we've got no one to cover who has had a decent chance at international level, he won't even pick a 7 on the bench to give them half an hour here and there.
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Care out that's another blow.
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Was largely expected though
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2 more tries for Earle in the JWC - 5 in 2 for him so far, he's definitely one to keep an eye on, nice win over Australia, the last group game is tuesday vs Argentina, pretty nice to be going into that with 2 bonus point wins, we should get a 3rd there as well. SA beating NZ today has made it pretty interesting though, if Wales manage to beat France then NZ become favourites for the 4th seed with 3rd seed being France or Ireland (unless England or SA blow it). If France win then it's Ireland looking at 4th seed which is a much more attractive prospect.
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Will be interesting to see how it goes, it's going to be very tough for us.
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I just want to see a good performance from us here, it's a massive ask to expect anything big.
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Nonu should have been yellow carded immeadiately.
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Robshaw has started brilliantly here.
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Really good play from us there.
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As good as NZ are, I hate how games involving them are reffed.
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We have started very well.
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Really good play from us there.
We've started really well, Burns is justifying his start. Nonu was a definite yellow, really poor from Owens, who's had a poor start from our side. They have got away with a lot of the niggly shit.
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Burns is doing brilliantly.
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So frustrating we get three points and then give three points straight back.
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Our attacking game is really developing.
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Rubbish handling from Wilson.
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It's been very good so far, but we've made a few unforced errors.
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Good half, we've pierced their defence a few times and made a few too many unforced errors. We've got to keep up the intensity and take our chances.
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We really are developing our running game very well.
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New Zealand will hit us hard here.
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This shows the strength in depth we have, we've been the better side and with a bit more attention and some slightly less dubious refereeing we should've gone in ahead (the last penalty for NZ was shit, their guy moved out of the ruck so haskell had no one to ruck against and fell over the top, never a penalty.
Burns and Parling have been superb so far.
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May got away with that massively there.
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indeed, that was a bit silly in the corner.
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We need to get our composure back a bit here.
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there was always going to be a period where they kept the ball in hand and put pressure on us, this is very good defending right now.
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Yep and our scrum has been excellent. Whatever the result here, for such a weakened side this is very impressive.
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Poor from Owens again, Burns knocked that backwards.
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Nigel Owens needs to learn the difference between forwards and backwards
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Owens has given us fuck all and it's putting us under pressure. I like him as a personailty but I hate him reffing England games.
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Need to cut the errors here and get some territory.
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Fucking hell we need to switch on here.
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forward pass to start that chance for me, still nearly caught Yarde out though, that's his inexperience showing.
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Excellent from Morgan and Eastmond there. Terrible handling from Wilson yet again.
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Fucking brilliant break from Eastmond, tough pass but if he'd have got it we'd have scored.
Wilson needs to go off, he's doing well in the scrum but he's killing us in open play.
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Wilson has been brilliant in the scrum though.........
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He has.
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Indeed, he's frustrating the hell out of me. The handling errors he's made are unforgivable but he's doing so well in the scrum he almost gets away with it.
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Thing is they talk about rustiness for the All Blacks, I think pressure is playing its part.
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Is that not a yellow card? brilliant from May there.
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that's another yellow card for me, England score if he doesn't kill that.
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3 points, now don't cough them up again. That should have been a yellow card again though.
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Good pressure kick from Burns, hes been very impressive given the season he came in off the back of.
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Indeed.
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There we go, give away the points again frustrating stuff.
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I'm not sure what he's given that penalty for, he called it as offside but I saw nothing to account for that, might have just missed it though.
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Terrible error. We get a yellow card? shocking unbelievable that NZ don't get yellow cards.
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Piss poor from Ben Youngs.
Fuck you Owens, you cheating Welsh prick.
How the fuck is that a yellow when the other one wasn't.
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No consistentcy at all.
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No consistentcy at all.
It's not inconsistent, it's cheating, fucking joke referee.
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Piss poor from Ben Youngs.
Fuck you Owens, you cheating Welsh prick.
How the fuck is that a yellow when the other one wasn't.
Yeah it was terrible from Youngs, but are NZ not allowed yellow cards.
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Just FUCK OFF Nigel Owens. No Yellow for NZ when preventing a try on their line by cheating? No penalty given on 2 successive NZ scrums that got decimated? Yet a yellow for that? Just fuck off
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Really poor handling again.
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Was that tackle on Cipriani legal? it just looked like a shoulder tackle to me.
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Cipriani on, Not got long to make an impact but he's got the quality to create something.
Brilliant first break from him.
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It was ok actually, well done Danny.
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Love that passion from Haskell.
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Was that tackle on Cipriani legal? it just looked like a shoulder tackle to me.
Was fine, Cipriani just made it look bad by getting his legs away.
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good kick Danny.
Whatever happens this has been heroic
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Fucks sake really naive, that ball had to be kicked.
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That is short.
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Definitely short
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that must've been short, the NZ guy going again suggests as much.
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Surely they'll score from this
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Ah gutted, they've scored.
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Well played Nigel Owens. You worked hard for that win.
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Fuck it, the extra man has made a big difference.
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Yep no Yellow cards for NZ won it for them.
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If nothing else we can take massive credit from the fact that the fucking ref was the difference between the teams
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Super performance from us, annoying errors, Referee's lack of consistency killed us. Yarde's was a yellow card, but so were two for NZ that weren't given. Very promising for future though, if we can do that with a weakened side. We played some great stuff.
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I'll say one thing, we can take anyone now I truly believe that. We are a developing and excellent side.
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Super performance from us, annoying errors, Referee's lack of consistency killed us. Yarde's was a yellow card, but so were two for NZ that weren't given. Very promising for future though, if we can do that with a weakened side. We played some great stuff.
absolutely, you can't give Yarde a yellow when you didn't give Fekitoa one for the same offence in a far more dangerous position 10minutes earlier.
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It makes selection interesting next week.
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It makes selection interesting next week.
Not for me. Regardless of how well today's team played, they've got to bring in the better players for next week.
May impressed me at times today. I've never been a fan of his, thinking him too lightweight, but he showed more strength in this game.
Eastmond played well but he's too similar to Manu for that to be a regular partnership.
If ever there was a classic case of a prop you don't want getting involved in ball handling, its Dave Wilson. Great scrummager and good at the breakdowns but when England have the ball just get out of the way.
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I wouldn't say Eastmond is remotely similar to Tuilagi and Burns has made a case. I think people will be back, but it shouldn't be a foregone conclusion. I'd have Ashton on the wing in place of May certainly, but Eastmond has made things in the centre interesting. I want Burrell back in the team though.
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Cipriani had hardly any time, but he impressed me in the time he was on the pitch as well.
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Yeah. Looks like a golden age of English Fly Halfs. Especially with Burns and Cipriani finding form
Farrell, Ford, Burns and Cipriani are a great quintet to choose from
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Burns' and Cipriani's job is to keep that level of performance now and put real pressure on.
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I think far too much was made of NZ's supposed "rustiness". Their players have been playing domestic rugby recently.
I think a lot of their errors can be attributed to the intensity of England's defence
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Cipriani had hardly any time, but he impressed me in the time he was on the pitch as well.
Showed good nerve in slotting over that penalty.
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And Chris robshaw just gets better and better. Looking at the (very many) positives just how good is our strength in depth? Without a one-sided referee and a full squad we would have won here convincingly. After a nervy start Brown looked good and Tuilangi very dangerous. How many times did my break the gain line? A bit more luck and composure we'd have scored 3 or 4 tries.
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Burns' and Cipriani's job is to keep that level of performance now and put real pressure on.
As a person that believed Cipriani should have started, can I put my hands up and say that I thought Burns had a very good game. In addition, I thought that Youngs had a very good game that enabled Burns to have the game he did. Thought that the commentator made a telling comment regarding Wilson's ball handling - If you offered me a tight head that had good ball handling or one that anchored the scrum, give me the latter every time. When was the last time test props lasted the whole game ? As has been said, we have real competition in most positions now and I think this was the ideal place to tour this year and the same will go for the Southern Hemisphere teams this Autumn when they come to the Northern Hemisphere.
I hope that the AB's keep playing McCaw, Nonu and Mealamu - No way they should be playing at RWC 2015. I would go so far as to say that is the least effective game that I have seen McCaw have in an AB's jersey. If he had not been captain, they would have surely had to replace him but he appears to be an "Untouchable" in the eyes of whoever is the AB's coach.
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Yeah. Looks like a golden age of English Fly Halfs. Especially with Burns and Cipriani finding form
Farrell, Ford, Burns and Cipriani are a great quintet to choose from
You're missing the Form 10 in europe there as well, Myler has always been steady but this season he has rightly pushed himself right into the mix. Add to that the fact the Henry Slade looks likely to develop into a world class 10 an Billy Burns looks every bit as good as his brother did at that age. We're going to have massive selection decisions to make this time next year. I genuinely think we could pick 2 squads for the world cup and the 2nd would be good enough to get out of the group.
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Great game spoilt by a weak Welsh referee.
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Didn't bother watching after the first 20 minutes, I assumed that we'd be reffed out of the game and posted as much and low and behold that is exactly what happened.
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Didn't bother watching after the first 20 minutes, I assumed that we'd be reffed out of the game and posted as much and low and behold that is exactly what happened.
You should have watched, we were excellent.
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Piss poor from Ben Youngs.
Fuck you Owens, you cheating Welsh prick.
How the fuck is that a yellow when the other one wasn't.
Nail, head.
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David Humphreys appointed DoR at Glos. Great news, getting someone up encumbered with past failures is a great idea.
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Didn't bother watching after the first 20 minutes, I assumed that we'd be reffed out of the game and posted as much and low and behold that is exactly what happened.
You should have watched, we were excellent.
I'l love to but I get too irate watching refs throw in biased decisions.
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Piss poor from Ben Youngs.
Fuck you Owens, you cheating Welsh prick.
How the fuck is that a yellow when the other one wasn't.
Nail, head.
I was rather angry with him at that point.
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How did Ben Morgan play? I'm not really a rugby fan, but he's my next door neighbour!
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He was excellent.
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And Chris robshaw just gets better and better. Looking at the (very many) positives just how good is our strength in depth? Without a one-sided referee and a full squad we would have won here convincingly. After a nervy start Brown looked good and Tuilangi very dangerous. How many times did my break the gain line? A bit more luck and composure we'd have scored 3 or 4 tries.
Robshaw is approaching the levels that McCaw was at 3 or 4 years ago. All bodes well for the world cup.
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Burns' and Cipriani's job is to keep that level of performance now and put real pressure on.
Thought Burns played very well apart from his restarts which were way too long and handed possession back and enabled the AB's to keep the pressure on.
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How did Ben Morgan play? I'm not really a rugby fan, but he's my next door neighbour!
He made one great break from the base of a scrum on England's line that set up a period of dominance.
Not many international players started their at Dursley
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We almost have too many similar level FHs now you can add Slade to the mix also, he was excellent against the Baa-Baas.
Not convinced by May at all, I have to say, what happened to Nowell? Seemed to really have what it takes when watching him in the 6 nations. Our back row were excellent today, NZ well below par. Also agree that McCaw was anonymous.
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We almost have too many similar level FHs now you can add Slade to the mix also, he was excellent against the Baa-Baas.
Not convinced by May at all, I have to say, what happened to Nowell? Seemed to really have what it takes when watching him in the 6 nations. Our back row were excellent today, NZ well below par. Also agree that McCaw was anonymous.
Nowell is on the very long list of injuries for this tour.
McCaw was average because we were beating them at the breakdown, they pretty much sacrificed attempting to win it in the tight to pack the fringes so we couldn't use the big forwards to bash through, we should get used to teams doing that against us.
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I think McCaw is past it to ne honest. He has been injured and has recently just got back playing for The Crusaders but has looked a yard off the pace. The biggest loss for the AB's is Kieran Read, he is the main man now.
The ref was shocking with his decision making and certainly seemed to favour the AB's. Even AB fans I have spoken to today thought he was inconsistent at best and biased at worst.
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What was the NZ reaction to England JD?
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I was impressed with Morgan and Haskell too but I'm surprised they got so much joy to be honest - I don't think that reflects too well on NZ. I was very impressed with Kaino though he is a brick wall.
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As I said, we did as well as we did because they didn't compete the breakdown, they just fanned out and then slowed it down when there was a hint of a turnover. It meant We had a lot of chances to pick and go but generally running at numbers. Where Haskell in particular got joy was missed tackles, which NZ will be concerned by, Manu strolled through a few times as well. Morgan only really had 1 break from the back of a scrum, which led to the great break by Eastmond.
We also offloaded pretty well and the struggled to stay with us. Given that's a particular strength of Burrell and something Ashton at his best will profit from I suspect they'll be the first 2 changes on the teamsheet.
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I truly believe that we can reach the heights of 2003 again and go on to create an on-going great side this time.
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What was the NZ reaction to England JD?
Good reaction Pete, full of praise for England. Hansen had already said they shouldn't be underestimated and I think most over here are praising their effort and can see that England have some strength in depth. New Zealand see England as the big threat for the next World Cup.
Most press were saying that it was good to have a tight and close test match and are looking forward to the Dunners test, especially as England have up to 16 players that didn't play last Saturday that could come in.
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I hope we don't end up putting Tuilagi on the wing, he either starts in the centres or he's on the bench for me.
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I hope we don't end up putting Tuilagi on the wing, he either starts in the centres or he's on the bench for me.
I agree, this is the sort of thinking that led to Mike Brown on the wing, which was a massive mistake.
Burrell and Manu to start in the centres for me. Care and Farrell 9-10, Ashton, Brown and Yarde at the back. The bench is tough though, Dickson as 9 then either 12trees or Cipriani to cover 10 and 12 and Foden to cover the back 3.
The pack pretty much picks itself depending on the fitness of a few of them, basically what we had in the 6N
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Yep I agree, no square pegs in round holes.
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Technically this is Rugby 2014-15 but I can't be bothered to start a new thread whilst the NZ tour is still on, therefore:
Champions cup (Heineken replacement) draw
Pool 1 - Saracens; Munster; Clermont; Sale Sharks
Pool 2 - Leinster; Castres; Harlequins; London Wasps
Pool 3 - Toulon; Leicester; Ulster; Scarlets
Pool 4 - Glasgow; Montpellier; Bath; Toulouse
Pool 5 - Saints; Racing Metro; Ospreys; Treviso
1 and 3 look brutal, will be some special games in there, saints will be disappointed with less than 23-24 points in their pool and really should be aiming for the top seeding in the quarters.
In the 2nd tier Challenge cup
Pool 1 - Cardiff Blues; London Irish; Grenoble; FIRA-AER 1 (qualifier)
Pool 2 - Exeter Chiefs; Bayonne; Connacht; La Rochelle
Pool 3 - Stade Français; Dragons; Newcastle Falcons; FIRA-AER 2 (qualifier)
Pool 4 - Edinburgh; Bordeaux Begles; London Welsh; Lyon
Pool 5 - Gloucester; Brive; Zebre; US Oyonnax
Only really pool 2 stands out as having any great quality and Glaws really only have Brive of any threat.
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Its fair to say Sale will be doing well to win this!
Just deciding whether we go to Parma or stay in Bordeaux and drive to Brive.
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Its fair to say Sale will be doing well to win this!
Just deciding whether we go to Parma or stay in Bordeaux and drive to Brive.
Sale have had the shitty end of the stick, that's for sure, 3 clubs who'll all go into it thinking they can win it in the same group, but they'll all be thinking they need 9-10 points from Sale to get out of the group, should be fun.
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Hmm strange selection, the backs massively changed and the forwards barely touched. I guess Parling has earned another shot, but I think Lawes is the better player. Morgan was outstanding last week, so Billy will be a good impact option. I just don't like the idea of Tuilagi on the wing, it's a classic case of trying to fit a player in. He's either centre or not in the team for me, but we shall see.
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I suppose the good thing is that this week the bench can make a big impact.
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Hmm strange selection, the backs massively changed and the forwards barely touched. I guess Parling has earned another shot, but I think Lawes is the better player. Morgan was outstanding last week, so Billy will be a good impact option. I just don't like the idea of Tuilagi on the wing, it's a classic case of trying to fit a player in. He's either centre or not in the team for me, but we shall see.
I remember reading that Tuilagi has played on the wing before ? and in my opinion Parling deserves another go but as you say Lawes is the better player, and yes the bench makes better reading.
Saturday should be a good day sports wise......Rugby, the Test match and then World Cup !! :)
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Yeah I was thinking that, and no Villa to ruin it at the moment!
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Yeah I was thinking that, and no Villa to ruin it at the moment!
Just wait until the announcement of Nicky Barmby's medical
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Hmm strange selection, the backs massively changed and the forwards barely touched. I guess Parling has earned another shot, but I think Lawes is the better player. Morgan was outstanding last week, so Billy will be a good impact option. I just don't like the idea of Tuilagi on the wing, it's a classic case of trying to fit a player in. He's either centre or not in the team for me, but we shall see.
Is Tuilagi playing opposite Junior Savea? If so it's a good move as they may cancel each other out. Savea is a beast as well.
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I never understand the point of picking players out of position. Square pegs and round holes and all that.
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I never understand the point of picking players out of position. Square pegs and round holes and all that.
Do you mean just in Rugby Union or in all sports ? If the latter, then I'll raise you Kenny Swain, who arrived at VP as a forward and became a European Cup winning right back.
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Humphreys in as the new Director of Rugby at Gloucester then.
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I think Manu played as a wing at youth level, which I didn't realise. So I'm willing to give it a chance,
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Humphreys in as the new Director of Rugby at Gloucester then.
...yes but we await who is going to be head coach. Apparently. Humph is a hands off, strategy man.
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Good start but we need to keep it solid in defence now
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Poor support line from Brown there, great defence from Smith but Manu had no option but to carry (not that he was going to pass)
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Not a bad first half from us there. The options we have off the bench this week might make this interesting.
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Billy Twelvetrees you fucking idiot
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Playing well, but we really should be about 10 points clear
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Oh just fuck off
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Forward pass rule suspended again this half ?
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How the fuck can it be advantage over before the ref has seen who collects the kick? What a crock of shit
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Oh and another ref ruins a game
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First offence yellow card again, after umpteen warnings for the All Blacks earlier. I don't know why we bother playing.
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Twelvetrees is having an absolute nightmare of a game
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Got to say that Yarde is extremely poor defensively
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Shit. What started off well first half is going all tits up and there's still 14 mins left.
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It's a try no doubt
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The NZ fans have the temerity to boo a decision? After all the help the officials have given them over 2 games?
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Twelvetrees simply has to be dropped
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Difference is that when we were in control for the first 40, we scored one try. When they were in control for 20 minutes in the second half they scored 3 tries.
Their first try was crucial. Twelvetrees has to shoulder the blame for a ridiculous offload when we were in a great attacking position.
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Twelvetrees was very poor, Farrell was nearly as bad. We got nothing out wide which completely nullified the decision to put Manu out there. Up front Parling had an awful 2nd half. To go a bit "broken record" early 2nd half we needed our 7 to do what the best do and slow down play. For all his qualities Robshaw can't be that player and we were dominated.
I don't think the ref was that bad, the 2-3 forward passes were borderline and it was a clear yellow. The only one that really disappointed me was the blatant truck and trailer line out drive before their 2nd.
I think Care starting with Youngs on the bench was wrong as well, they're too similar, Dickson on the bench would've been better.
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Yeah I'd like to see Burrell and Tuilagi as the centres for next week, with Ashton on the wing. Lawes, Hartley and Vunipola all to come in from the start aswell.
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As I said before the game, Manu is not a winger. Johnny May would have scored that just before half time, also he has the turning circle of the Arc Royal.
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Twelvetrees cost us that game for me, he consisently missed passes and it was his fault we conceded the try that turned the game. Ashton should be on the wing as well.
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Yeah I'd like to see Burrell and Tuilagi as the centres for next week, with Ashton on the wing. Lawes, Hartley and Vunipola all to come in from the start aswell.
I agree.
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We went to sleep for 20 mins of the second half and it wasn't good enough.
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I do think we need to get Ashton into the team on the wing though and Tuilagi back in the centres next to Burrell. Also Billy, Lawes and Hartley should start. However we're all disappointed that we've lost by 1 point in NZ and that sums up how far we've come.
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Gutted we have lost both tests, we are so close to beating them it's really irritating. Annoyed beyond belief that Lancaster changed the most exciting centre partnership I have seen for England last week for the numbnuts that is Twelvetrees. I feel sorry for Burrell as he missed the first test through no fault of his own, but please let's go back to Eastmond and Tuilagi in the centres for Hamilton.
Lawes, Hartley and Billy in for Parling, Webber (who has done very well incidentally) and Morgan. Would have Attwood off the bench to add ballast and leave Parling out on this occasion. Again Parling has done very well, at least for a test and a half. Ashton, May or Watson should be playing on the right wing.
Feel these two weeks have been a missed opportunity and we really want to be coming home with one win next Saturday as well as the Crusaders game on Tuesday.
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I think overall it's been a really positive tour so far, we've had players step up and show they can compete. We now need to play our strongest side next week and there will be tough decisions.
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I think overall it's been a really positive tour so far, we've had players step up and show they can compete. We now need to play our strongest side next week and there will be tough decisions.
See I think it's only positive if we went with the belief that 1 win over there would be a good return. I don't think that was the case, I think we went knowing we could win if we played well, but both games so far we've let ourselves down with the basics and by making a couple of really silly selection decisions.
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I don't mind so much provided those mistakes are learned from.
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As I said before the game, Manu is not a winger. Johnny May would have scored that just before half time, also he has the turning circle of the Arc Royal.
I agree that Manu is not a winger and Johnny May would, probably, have scored that particular chance. But, for me, J M hasn't filled me with confidence for being an international winger. Not just yet.
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Farrell is out, so Burns will get a chance in the final Test I imagine.
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You'd think so. Cipriani and Dickson both went off early in the crusaders game so I think they're both in with a good chance of making the bench, with Care also struggling. Watson got his debut and scored a 40 yard break which is exactly what I was hoping would happen, very talented kid.
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Lots of changes, I think the back line has a better balance with Eastmond and Tuilagi in the centres. I think the team looks pretty strong, Launchbury had looked tired in the last couple of games.
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Lots of changes, I think the back line has a better balance with Eastmond and Tuilagi in the centres. I think the team looks pretty strong, Launchbury had looked tired in the last couple of games.
I'd agree with all of the changes except for dropping Burrell. Burrell and Manu is the centre pairing I want to see but he seems determined to not even attempt it.
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I think he seems them both as a bit similar, I think they want a ball playing centre inside centre.
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I think he seems them both as a bit similar, I think they want a ball playing centre inside centre.
I get what he's doing, but it's basically looking at Burrell, seeing a big strong guy who is excllent at breaking the line and assuming his technical skills are ropey, when actually he's a great passer, offloads better than anyone else in the squad and runs incredibly intelligent lines.
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As I said before the game, Manu is not a winger. Johnny May would have scored that just before half time, also he has the turning circle of the Arc Royal.
I agree that Manu is not a winger and Johnny May would, probably, have scored that particular chance. But, for me, J M hasn't filled me with confidence for being an international winger. Not just yet.
Maybe not judged on his limited international appearances, no. But judged on his club form you would.
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I'm looking forward to seeing Eastmond again tomorrow, Launchbury in for Parling.
As an aside we're doing really well in the Junior World Cup final at the moment.
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I'm looking forward to seeing Eastmond again tomorrow, Launchbury in for Parling.
As an aside we're doing really well in the Junior World Cup final at the moment.
Won the JWC again, 2 in a row, and importantly we're doing it by having players who all have solid technical skills, when we've done well in the past it was based on being bigger, stronger and quicker.
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Yep we showed great resilience in that last 10 mins as well.
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Not a good start Freddie.
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Burns not started particularly well.
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Really sloppy start, Brown took that back in and then hoofed it straight out.
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Terrible terrible start, haven't got out of the dressing room.
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This has been a fucking diabolical start.
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Fucking hell are we actually going to cover the wide threat, we've conceded two and it should be three tries in the same position.
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Fucking hell ref that is never a yellow card.
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Diabolical from 1 to 15, shameful.
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The centre pairing has failed completely here. Add to that Brown's worst game at full back, a harsh yellow and a poor start from Burns and it's a bit of a perfect storm.
I'd make all the backs changes now 9, 10 and 12 all off.
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Brown has been atrocious. The only player I don't blame funnily is Ashton he has been completely hung out to dry. I'd get Cipriani on.
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One thing that has frustrated on me this tour is that all the refs have given us yellow cards and never come close to sin binning an All Black.
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Good start to second half.
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Come out very well in the second half.
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Midfield is all over the place, time for those calling for Twelvetrees to be dropped to hold their hands up.
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Billy twelvetrees would have made no difference to that.
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Possibly not but he was slated last week and the defence was infinitely worse without him.
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Twelvetrees was fine in defence, it was what he did with the ball that was the problem, last week we didn't get Yarde, Burrell or Manu into the game at all because Farrell and Twelvetrees just weren't able to find them in space.
I agree with a change to the centres, what I thought was wrong was changing both, Burrell and Twelvetrees are the organisers, Manu and Eastmond aren't and it showed today. Once Burrell came on our defensive shape was much better. The 2nd half was ok but we need to finish the chances, if Yarde had got the ball away to Burrell rather than going on his own we'd have got 14 points in the first 5minutes and it'd have been a really interesting game.
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Ultimately though, there is still a gulf between us and them and I doubt we can bridge that in a year.
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I'm not so sure, Today we got it wrong, our midfield defence was appalling. In the other 2 games there was nothing between the sides besides a couple of key ref decisions in the first and a 10 minute spell each where they took their chances and we didn't. I genuinely think we can make it up before the world cup, we just need Lancaster to be willing to be a bit ruthless.
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Our second half was much improved and it was pretty level, but we have to become much more clinical. We have to learn the lessons from today.
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Our second half was much improved and it was pretty level, but we have to become much more clinical. We have to learn the lessons from today.
Exactly, if we can find a way to kill teams off we'll be a top side.
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Ultimately though, there is still a gulf between us and them and I doubt we can bridge that in a year.
I'm sure we can. I think the NZ side is currently at their absolute peak, whereas I think we are probably playing to about 65-70% of this groups future potential. Missing Cole and Corbisiero was crucial at times. I think we'd have been dominant in the scrum with those two there.
Being as ruthless as them is going to be the challenge. But as the players, particularly the backs mature then that will come. Add to that it's a home world cup, and we've beaten them convincingly and pushed them incredibly close in our last two home games against them.
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watching the 2015 WC qualifier between Madagascar and Zimbabwe in Antananarivo. Grounds is packed - must be 40 000+ easily. 15-22 at half-time.
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Zimbabwe pissed it.
They are in a pool of 4 and the WInner goes into Group C with New Zealand. In the other game that day Kenya beat Namibia in a close game. Yesterday Namibia beat Zimbabwe in another close game and Kenya demolished Madagascar. Kenya are really focussing on their 15s in the build up to the World Cup. They will qualify if they beat Zimbabwe. The team who finish second will play Russia in the repercharge and they qualify.
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Are ITV showing these qualifiers ?
I think I read that prior to the 2011 WC, they bought the rights to the qualifiers (or maybe just had them as part of the TV rights for the WC itself) and then didn't bother showing any.
Who has the 2015 broadcast rights in the UK ?
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Are ITV showing these qualifiers ?
I think I read that prior to the 2011 WC, they bought the rights to the qualifiers (or maybe just had them as part of the TV rights for the WC itself) and then didn't bother showing any.
Who has the 2015 broadcast rights in the UK ?
I'm not sure who has the rights but it's irrelevant because they're clearly not interested in showing them. Sky have the rights to the 6N and the championship (the replacement for the tri-nations now Argentina are included) and both are block negotiations so I guess they have all the rights for the lot and have chosen to do nothing with them.
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Unbelievably Kenya are out! lost against Zimbabwe. Namibia demolished Madagascar to finish top. Kenya just bottled it and finished third.