Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: PGW on September 06, 2013, 06:18:01 PM
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JPA has just tweeted that''He is happy to announce that his 3rd baby boy has been born this morning''
Congrats to you and your family...
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I expect all 3 boys will be playing upfront for Aston Villa in 20 years time with wonderful English/American/Colombian magic.
Nice for JPA :)
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Congratulations Juan.
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One of the little ones is a really good little player on youtube. Need to get him signed up.
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Good news, congrats JPA and Mrs A!
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There's only 3.... Ok you get what I mean!
Congrants JPA.
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Wasn't his first, Geronimo, born just after he moved to Brum? And we had no welfare officer to help the family.
Fair play to him.
After Collymore he's arguably our biggest ex-player champion on twitta.
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Wasn't his first, Geronimo, born just after he moved to Brum? And we had no welfare officer to help the family.
Fair play to him.
After Collymore he's arguably our biggest ex-player champion on twitta.
Yes, my heart bled for that poor millionaire stuck in a five-star hotel with no-one to help him and his family.
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Well, pampering expensive assets is arguably a justified business cost in the world of top level football.
If we'd had someone like Lorna McClleland (current Player Liaison & Welfare Officer) working for us at the time then we might just have got some decent performances out of JPA in his first few months rather than the embarrassing lost-at-sea displays. Wages for an employee like that seem worthwhile if you've spent over £10m on fees and wages on a player who doesn't speak the language, is from a completely different culture and has come from the other side of the world with a heavily-pregnant wife, who was quite ill for a while post-birth if I remember.
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Well, pampering expensive assets is arguably a justified business cost in the world of top level football.
If we'd had someone like Lorna McClleland (current Player Liaison & Welfare Officer) working for us at the time then we might just have got some decent performances out of JPA in his first few months rather than the embarrassing lost-at-sea displays. Wages for an employee like that seem worthwhile if you've spent over £10m on fees and wages on a player who doesn't speak the language, is from a completely different culture and has come from the other side of the world with a heavily-pregnant wife, who was quite ill for a while post-birth if I remember.
He always had an excuse, or rather, there was always an excuse made for him. First his wife, then his family, then the language, then he was too good for the rest of the team, then the manager.
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Well, pampering expensive assets is arguably a justified business cost in the world of top level football.
If we'd had someone like Lorna McClleland (current Player Liaison & Welfare Officer) working for us at the time then we might just have got some decent performances out of JPA in his first few months rather than the embarrassing lost-at-sea displays. Wages for an employee like that seem worthwhile if you've spent over £10m on fees and wages on a player who doesn't speak the language, is from a completely different culture and has come from the other side of the world with a heavily-pregnant wife, who was quite ill for a while post-birth if I remember.
He always had an excuse, or rather, there was always an excuse made for him. First his wife, then his family, then the language, then he was too good for the rest of the team, then the manager.
I have to admit, although I liked the guy, this used to piss me off about him.
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Well, pampering expensive assets is arguably a justified business cost in the world of top level football.
If we'd had someone like Lorna McClleland (current Player Liaison & Welfare Officer) working for us at the time then we might just have got some decent performances out of JPA in his first few months rather than the embarrassing lost-at-sea displays. Wages for an employee like that seem worthwhile if you've spent over £10m on fees and wages on a player who doesn't speak the language, is from a completely different culture and has come from the other side of the world with a heavily-pregnant wife, who was quite ill for a while post-birth if I remember.
He always had an excuse, or rather, there was always an excuse made for him. First his wife, then his family, then the language, then he was too good for the rest of the team, then the manager.
I have to admit, although I liked the guy, this used to piss me off about him.
It wasn't him that did it, though. He always came across as a nice enough bloke but there were always some self-important morons who seemed to support him more than the Villa.
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He did have one really good season (O'Dreary 03/04) and one decent one (01/02) with bitty ones in between and after. Not quite what we had hoped but none of our record signings ever really are unfortunately.
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Well, pampering expensive assets is arguably a justified business cost in the world of top level football.
If we'd had someone like Lorna McClleland (current Player Liaison & Welfare Officer) working for us at the time then we might just have got some decent performances out of JPA in his first few months rather than the embarrassing lost-at-sea displays. Wages for an employee like that seem worthwhile if you've spent over £10m on fees and wages on a player who doesn't speak the language, is from a completely different culture and has come from the other side of the world with a heavily-pregnant wife, who was quite ill for a while post-birth if I remember.
He always had an excuse, or rather, there was always an excuse made for him. First his wife, then his family, then the language, then he was too good for the rest of the team, then the manager.
I have to admit, although I liked the guy, this used to piss me off about him.
It wasn't him that did it, though. He always came across as a nice enough bloke but there were always some self-important morons who seemed to support him more than the Villa.
Sorry Dave, that's what I meant. One of my good mates was like that, a total fanboy of him, always making excuses for his sub-standard displays.
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have to admit I was a fanboy,
I loved the guy thought he was pure class playing in average side, if he had gone to a European side I think he could have been one of the worlds best, I really thought he was that good
but he didn't, I don't think we ever got the very best out of him, but even so he left some good memories with a feeling of what might have been
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have to admit I was a fanboy,
I loved the guy thought he was pure class playing in average side, if he had gone to a European side I think he could have been one of the worlds best, I really thought he was that good
but he didn't, I don't think we ever got the very best out of him, but even so he left some good memories with a feeling of what might have been
But you could never really have a rational debate about him without his fan club charging in. He seemed to be some totem for the more extreme anti-Ellis factions.
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JPA. Just another in a long list of expensive Villa buys who came, picked up their money but, ultimately, failed to deliver. However, he was give more rope than most on the basis that his signing was somehow considered a victory for the fans against Doug's austerity drive.
Having said that, congratulations and hope all is well the new arrival.
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I was certainly a fan and it's probably due to the feeling that he was THE fan's purchase as TopDeck has alluded to above.
Would love to see him make an appearance onto the pitch at some half time in the future......perhaps when he brings his oldest lad over to sign forms!!!
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I didn't mind him being the fans' purchase but there were some fans who made out that they'd scouted him, arranged the transfer, flown over to Colombia to sort out the problem with his registration and paid the fee.
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Never really rated him. He had that one good season under Gregory but other than that ?
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I never warmed to Angel and never understood the adulation he got from a lot of the fans, and I'll never forgive him for missing that sitter when Luke Moore squared to him against Small Heath at 2-1. Actually thinking about it that's why I dislike him.
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Never really rated him. He had that one good season under Gregory but other than that ?
23 goal season under DOL?
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have to admit I was a fanboy,
I loved the guy thought he was pure class playing in average side, if he had gone to a European side I think he could have been one of the worlds best, I really thought he was that good
but he didn't, I don't think we ever got the very best out of him, but even so he left some good memories with a feeling of what might have been
But you could never really have a rational debate about him without his fan club charging in. He seemed to be some totem for the more extreme anti-Ellis factions.
I wasn't really aware of that, I joined the site soon after he had left
and living outside the city it's hard to have a rational debate about Villa with anyone who doesn't follow Villa
It's the first I've heard of him being a 'fans purchase' to be honest, or the politics involving Ellis over his signing,
I just liked him thought he was better than other players he was surrounded by and had probably joined the wrong club if he wanted to get the best out of his career
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Never really rated him. He had that one good season under Gregory but other than that ?
23 goal season under DOL?
Sorry and thanks for correction . I have wiped DOL out of my memory banks.
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I never warmed to Angel and never understood the adulation he got from a lot of the fans, and I'll never forgive him for missing that sitter when Luke Moore squared to him against Small Heath at 2-1. Actually thinking about it that's why I dislike him.
He had a couple of unwelcome anomalies to his name. Missing two penalties in a match (Fulham, Loftus Road, Feb '04) and scoring both goals in a 1-1 (Spurs, VP, Oct '06). Didn't he also do something daft at a corner kick in that game?
Still, lovely fella, great hair and on his day top-class.
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Always thought he's worthy of a head and shoulders advert. Probably the best head of hair down B6 since Ormsby and McNaught.
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Really great player on his day. Generally when our sides tried to play good football he looked a good player. When we played hoofball and tried to use him as a target man, not so good. Fantastic header of the ball, great touch, could link up play well. He lacked a ruthless edge that you need in this league, but great guy, good relationship with us lot. Ive got a lot of time for JPA.
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We're still missing the player who should have been purchased to thread the balls through to him. It appeared to me (not a fanboy by the way) that he was looking for the pass that never came at the time he wanted it, and when it did he was caught offside.
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I'd wager he's a fantastic dad. Seems a really nice man.
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I never warmed to Angel and never understood the adulation he got from a lot of the fans, and I'll never forgive him for missing that sitter when Luke Moore squared to him against Small Heath at 2-1. Actually thinking about it that's why I dislike him.
He had a couple of unwelcome anomalies to his name. Missing two penalties in a match (Fulham, Loftus Road, Feb '04) and scoring both goals in a 1-1 (Spurs, VP, Oct '06). Didn't he also do something daft at a corner kick in that game?
Still, lovely fella, great hair and on his day top-class.
It was at Craven Cottage, not Loftus Road.
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I never warmed to Angel and never understood the adulation he got from a lot of the fans, and I'll never forgive him for missing that sitter when Luke Moore squared to him against Small Heath at 2-1. Actually thinking about it that's why I dislike him.
He had a couple of unwelcome anomalies to his name. Missing two penalties in a match (Fulham, Loftus Road, Feb '04) and scoring both goals in a 1-1 (Spurs, VP, Oct '06). Didn't he also do something daft at a corner kick in that game?
Still, lovely fella, great hair and on his day top-class.
It was at Craven Cottage, not Loftus Road.
Wasn't that the night of Eric Djemba-Djemba's stunning debut as well?
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I never warmed to Angel and never understood the adulation he got from a lot of the fans, and I'll never forgive him for missing that sitter when Luke Moore squared to him against Small Heath at 2-1. Actually thinking about it that's why I dislike him.
He had a couple of unwelcome anomalies to his name. Missing two penalties in a match (Fulham, Loftus Road, Feb '04) and scoring both goals in a 1-1 (Spurs, VP, Oct '06). Didn't he also do something daft at a corner kick in that game?
Still, lovely fella, great hair and on his day top-class.
It was at Craven Cottage, not Loftus Road.
It was. And in the Spurs game at Villa Park in October 2006 Barry scored our goal with a cracking right foot curler.
JPA was a competent player, but nothing special. He had a couple of good seasons whilst he was here but never justified the price tag. He seemed a decent bloke and had a good rapport with fans but was never good enough to be a legend.
Having lived abroad a couple of times it is a tough experience, even for a professional player on a big salary. I remember at the time thinking that we hadn't invested in an off field structure to help a player fit in as quickly as possible.
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Interesting that in the recent long interview with Dazzler, he thought JPA was his best strike partner at Villa Park and that they were split up too early.
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I never warmed to Angel and never understood the adulation he got from a lot of the fans, and I'll never forgive him for missing that sitter when Luke Moore squared to him against Small Heath at 2-1. Actually thinking about it that's why I dislike him.
He had a couple of unwelcome anomalies to his name. Missing two penalties in a match (Fulham, Loftus Road, Feb '04) and scoring both goals in a 1-1 (Spurs, VP, Oct '06). Didn't he also do something daft at a corner kick in that game?
Still, lovely fella, great hair and on his day top-class.
It was at Craven Cottage, not Loftus Road.
It was. And in the Spurs game at Villa Park in October 2006 Barry scored our goal with a cracking right foot curler.
JPA was a competent player, but nothing special. He had a couple of good seasons whilst he was here but never justified the price tag. He seemed a decent bloke and had a good rapport with fans but was never good enough to be a legend.
Having lived abroad a couple of times it is a tough experience, even for a professional player on a big salary. I remember at the time thinking that we hadn't invested in an off field structure to help a player fit in as quickly as possible.
D'oh. Two erroneous statements, my bad.
When did we play Fulham at Loftus Road then?
I'd forgotten Barry's howitzer. Angel did do something else bad apart from score an own-goal against Spurs like miss a penalty or take a comedically bad corner. S'pose I could always look this up...
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I never warmed to Angel and never understood the adulation he got from a lot of the fans, and I'll never forgive him for missing that sitter when Luke Moore squared to him against Small Heath at 2-1. Actually thinking about it that's why I dislike him.
He had a couple of unwelcome anomalies to his name. Missing two penalties in a match (Fulham, Loftus Road, Feb '04) and scoring both goals in a 1-1 (Spurs, VP, Oct '06). Didn't he also do something daft at a corner kick in that game?
Still, lovely fella, great hair and on his day top-class.
It was at Craven Cottage, not Loftus Road.
It was. And in the Spurs game at Villa Park in October 2006 Barry scored our goal with a cracking right foot curler.
JPA was a competent player, but nothing special. He had a couple of good seasons whilst he was here but never justified the price tag. He seemed a decent bloke and had a good rapport with fans but was never good enough to be a legend.
Having lived abroad a couple of times it is a tough experience, even for a professional player on a big salary. I remember at the time thinking that we hadn't invested in an off field structure to help a player fit in as quickly as possible.
D'oh. Two erroneous statements, my bad.
When did we play Fulham at Loftus Road then?
I'd forgotten Barry's howitzer. Angel did do something else bad apart from score an own-goal against Spurs like miss a penalty or take a comedically bad corner. S'pose I could always look this up...
From recollection eamonn in between his calamitous own goal and his goal he tried to take a quick short corner and kicked the corner flag in highly comedic fashion. Not his best day at the office!!
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Eamonn, we played Fulham at Loftus rd in 2003 and 2004. We lost the first game 2-1 and won the second by the same score - it was the night Delaney had his leg broken by Bocanegra's awful tackle. And I think JPA scored that night, along with Vassell.
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He scored 60 odd goals in his time here, in all comps, including some absolute crackers. I wouldn't put him in the expensive flop category by any means. I think in all he just about proved his worth.
I thought he started O Neills first season pretty well when we played 4-3-3. As soon as we switched to a 4-4-2, O Neill seemed to prefer playing Sutton up top as a target man with either Baros (who was useless that season) or Gabby.
O Neill actually rated Japes as a top player who's only lacking attribute was pace, which happened to be an attribute most prized by O Neill with his front men. With MON it's either a quick player or a brick shit house up top. Any other type and he was lost in how to play that player.
I was disappointed to see him go because I actually felt that Carew could have been an ideal partner for Pablo for a year or two. That said, he was 31 at the time and had lost virtually any pace he had at first, and a move to New York was a good opportunity for him too I suppose.
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I always felt he needed everything to be absolutely perfect to play well. A decent player on his day but a league record of 1 in 4 is a bit crap for a record signing striker in his prime years.
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He always seemed to look a bit unfit to me.
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"Japes"? Supertom, you're some man for the inventive nicknames I have to say.
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There is something really endearing about him. All logic suggests he was an average Villa player at best, when looking back I can't help but choose to remember him fondly.
That's in spite of all the comedy moments that make Heskey look assured.
The double penalty miss v Fulham
The penalty miss, own goal and attempt at taking a corner v Spurs
The burst through on goal from the halfway line at Stamford Bridge, only to be caught up by Terry
The shots from the half way line that he used to spanner out for a throw-in
Offside. Every.Fucking.Game.
Even his excellent season wasn't anything special on reflection. 23 goals sounds fantastic - but I remember him getting a fair few in the League Cup and a fair few penalties.
Still, he looked cool and seemed like a nice bloke.
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have to admit I was a fanboy,
I loved the guy thought he was pure class playing in average side, if he had gone to a European side I think he could have been one of the worlds best, I really thought he was that good
but he didn't, I don't think we ever got the very best out of him, but even so he left some good memories with a feeling of what might have been
He wasn't, decent enough strker but we've had better since, obviously Benteke and Carew who did play for the big European clubs.
What did for him really was after an excellent 03/04 he had an operation which made him even slower so in the pace obessed premier league that was a bit of a problem. That's another excuse anyway Dave has forgotten.
End of the day he got huge support from the Holte end for being the pound protest signing (remember that). Would've been comical if we'd signed Balaban 6 months earlier instead.
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Really great player on his day. Generally when our sides tried to play good football he looked a good player. When we played hoofball and tried to use him as a target man, not so good. Fantastic header of the ball, great touch, could link up play well. He lacked a ruthless edge that you need in this league, but great guy, good relationship with us lot. Ive got a lot of time for JPA.
Yes he was pretty good at scoring from crosses, he'd have done well if we'd signed an Ashley Young type a bit earlier rather than right as he was leaving and passed it.
Still he did well when we had Solano and UDLC in the team aswell and also let's not forget right at the start of 06/07 when Luke Moore and Gabby were doing the running either side of him.
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He scored 60 odd goals in his time here, in all comps, including some absolute crackers. I wouldn't put him in the expensive flop category by any means. I think in all he just about proved his worth.
I thought he started O Neills first season pretty well when we played 4-3-3. As soon as we switched to a 4-4-2, O Neill seemed to prefer playing Sutton up top as a target man with either Baros (who was useless that season) or Gabby.
O Neill actually rated Japes as a top player who's only lacking attribute was pace, which happened to be an attribute most prized by O Neill with his front men. With MON it's either a quick player or a brick shit house up top. Any other type and he was lost in how to play that player.
I was disappointed to see him go because I actually felt that Carew could have been an ideal partner for Pablo for a year or two. That said, he was 31 at the time and had lost virtually any pace he had at first, and a move to New York was a good opportunity for him too I suppose.
I remember turning up for MON's first home game against Reading five minutes late as there was mass queues outside as it was a midweek game.
My Dad was no fan of JPA at all and thought MON was the best thing since sliced bread (as most of us did at that point). As soon as we got in he saw JPA was playing, turned to me and said "fcuk me we've got one of the best managers around and he's still playing Angle (as he'd call him) upfront!"
As you say never really an O'Neill type striker but he did well at the start of that season.
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Why didn't we stick with that formation of Angel flanked by Gabby and Moore? I seem to remember we were unbeaten with that formation until the middle of October. Sutton came in and Baros got the odd opportunity but we had a really poor run that winter, 06/07. I can't remember if we had ditched the three up front by then.
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Why didn't we stick with that formation of Angel flanked by Gabby and Moore? I seem to remember we were unbeaten with that formation until the middle of October. Sutton came in and Baros got the odd opportunity but we had a really poor run that winter, 06/07. I can't remember if we had ditched the three up front by then.
Luke Moore got injured and it kind of perpetuated the change. Luke was never the same for us after either, because he'd started pretty well. The front three of Gab, Angel and Moore was quite effective and we went unbeaten for a good stretch at the beginning of that season too IIRC.
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It's strange how it has become accepted wisdom that his comedy corner was against Spurs in his own goal game. It wasn't.
And this thing about people liking him because he was the 'fans' signing' is a load of bollocks too. Like it's successor myth - 'you only think Gabby is good because he's a Villa fan' it's quite an insult to people's intelligence too.
Does anyone still think that about people who rate Gabby BTW?
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Really Percy? The pound signs protest against Spurs was in November 2000, we signed him 6 weeks later.
Remember he didn't score for his first 12 games or whatever it was, plenty of other players have copped more stick from the fans for less e.g. Crouch who I think scored on his debut.
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Really Percy? The pound signs protest against Spurs was in November 2000, we signed him 6 weeks later.
Remember he didn't score for his first 12 games or whatever it was, plenty of other players have copped more stick from the fans for less e.g. Crouch who I think scored on his debut.
Really. I liked him because he scored lots of good goals for us, I didn't give a shit that he was the fan's signing. So it stands to reason that I believe others liked him for the same reason.
Same as I don't care who Gabby supports, I just think he's a good player. I find it really annoying when people tell me I don't really think these things.
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It's strange how it has become accepted wisdom that his comedy corner was against Spurs in his own goal game. It wasn't.
And this thing about people liking him because he was the 'fans' signing' is a load of bollocks too. Like it's successor myth - 'you only think Gabby is good because he's a Villa fan' it's quite an insult to people's intelligence too.
Does anyone still think that about people who rate Gabby BTW?
I think you are wrong here Percy.
I have no doubt that Angel got cut more slack than many other players simply because he was seen as "Our player" the one we forced Doug to buy with the £sign protests and the "Buy or go" poster stuff. The fans have certainly turned on strikers far quicker in recent times than they did on Angel, Milosevic and Crouch for instance got far less time to start performing.
Gabby almost certainly got less vitriol from the fans when he was going through his bad spell because he is a local lad come good as well.
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It's strange how it has become accepted wisdom that his comedy corner was against Spurs in his own goal game. It wasn't.
And this thing about people liking him because he was the 'fans' signing' is a load of bollocks too. Like it's successor myth - 'you only think Gabby is good because he's a Villa fan' it's quite an insult to people's intelligence too.
Does anyone still think that about people who rate Gabby BTW?
I think you are wrong here Percy.
I have no doubt that Angel got cut more slack than many other players simply because he was seen as "Our player" the one we forced Doug to buy with the £sign protests and the "Buy or go" poster stuff. The fans have certainly turned on strikers far quicker in recent times than they did on Angel, Milosevic and Crouch for instance got far less time to start performing.
Gabby almost certainly got less vitriol from the fans when he was going through his bad spell because he is a local lad come good as well.
Thanks for telling us what we think Dave. If I pm you my password could you post my views all the time? It would make my life much easier.
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What?
They are pretty obviously my views.
The phrases "I think" and "I have no doubt" should tell you that I am voicing my own opinions on this subject.
Disagree if you want but don't come over all annoyed just because I happen to hold a different opinion to you.
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Wind it in please Percy, no one said it is why you rate JPA or Gabby, but quite possibly why some people do.
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What?
They are pretty obviously my views.
The phrases "I think" and "I have no doubt" should tell you that I am voicing my own opinions on this subject.
Disagree if you want but don't come over all annoyed just because I happen to hold a different opinion to you.
Okay, so you're not speaking for me, just everybody else.
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What?
They are pretty obviously my views.
The phrases "I think" and "I have no doubt" should tell you that I am voicing my own opinions on this subject.
Disagree if you want but don't come over all annoyed just because I happen to hold a different opinion to you.
Okay, so you're not speaking for me, just everybody else.
No, I'm speaking for me. Everyone else is just as entitled as you are to disagree with me.
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He scored in his 7th or 8th game, which just so happened to help send Coventry down. He then got 20 goals for the season in his first full season didn't he? That goal against Bolton was great as well, even if he didn't mean it. Got a bit slow and past it towards the end, but overall he was a good player for us.
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Liked him a lot when he played for us but changed my mind when he refused to shake my hand in a Liverpool hotel couple of years after he had gone.
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What?
They are pretty obviously my views.
The phrases "I think" and "I have no doubt" should tell you that I am voicing my own opinions on this subject.
Disagree if you want but don't come over all annoyed just because I happen to hold a different opinion to you.
Okay, so you're not speaking for me, just everybody else.
No, I'm speaking for me. Everyone else is just as entitled as you are to disagree with me.
I disagree that you are speaking for you. You are saying you 'have no doubt' that you know what other people are really thinking, even when they don't say that themselves.
How would you like it if, when you used to criticise Gabby for 'not having a footballing brain', I said 'I have no doubt that the reason people really don't like Gabby (and a lot don't) is because he's black? Would you accept that's just my opinion, and not me making unfair assumptions about others' opinions?
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Bloody hell Percy, are you now accusing me of somehow being a closet racist because I think that Gabby sometimes makes bad decisions on the football field?
In fact I don't know what you are on about at all to be honest. I have obviously touched a nerve by having an opinion on Angel that differs from yours, quite why you have dragged up an old argument on Agbonlahor is beyond me, obviously you have been storing the "footballing brain" comment in your personal hard drive just to dredge it out on an occasion when I dare to disagree with you.
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It's strange how it has become accepted wisdom that his comedy corner was against Spurs in his own goal game. It wasn't.
And this thing about people liking him because he was the 'fans' signing' is a load of bollocks too. Like it's successor myth - 'you only think Gabby is good because he's a Villa fan' it's quite an insult to people's intelligence too.
Does anyone still think that about people who rate Gabby BTW?
The flaw in the "he was the fans' signing" argument is the concept that, really, Doug would ever have been "forced" into making such a big signing by the fans. He never did anything he didn't want to do himself, or at a time he didn't choose himself, ever (including selling the club).
I find it hard to believe he'd have really been influenced that much into spending money. He was a stubborn fucker who only ever did things he wanted.
That Gabby / Villa fan thing, though, I do think it is true that a lot of people cut him more slack because he's a Villa fan. It's understandable, in a way, but I don't see how anyone can not think it happens to a certain degree, it's that obvious.
Same when people say "he's been really loyal" - they associate him being him a Villa fan and here a long time with meaning loyalty. Loyalty only really means something when it is tested, otherwise it is an empty concept.
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Bloody hell Percy, are you now accusing me of somehow being a closet racist because I think that Gabby sometimes makes bad decisions on the football field?
In fact I don't know what you are on about at all to be honest. I have obviously touched a nerve by having an opinion on Angel that differs from yours, quite why you have dragged up an old argument on Agbonlahor is beyond me, obviously you have been storing the "footballing brain" comment in your personal hard drive just to dredge it out on an occasion when I dare to disagree with you.
I have no problem with you disagreeing with anybody's opinion of Angel (or Gabby). What annoys me is you thinking that people who disagree with you are not basing their opinion on their merit as footballers, but on some abstract emotional concept.
I can see from your first sentence that were I to accuse you of the same, re: Gabby, it would annoy you too.
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Well if you accused me of being racist then yes, I would get very annoyed, but I don't see the relevance here.
I have an opinion that Angel got cut a lot of slack from the fans because he was seen as "our signing" because we did the whole £ sign thing etc. You don't.
I also think Gabby got far less stick than he might have got during his rather barren spell than he might have had if he hadn't been a local lad done good. Again, you don't.
Do you not think that some people might be swayed by such things? I know you aren't, you have made that very obvious, but I know for a fact that there are Villa fans who would love the likes of Grealish or Gardner to make it as Villa players because they are home grown, and if these players do get into the first team I will definitely forgive them a few bad games, certainly a few more than some bloke we might sign from Belgium (I remember Benteke getting pelters on the first couple of match threads after he signed).
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love angel and his missus
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Liked him a lot when he played for us but changed my mind when he refused to shake my hand in a Liverpool hotel couple of years after he had gone.
He probably thought your were drunk, or obnoxious, or worse of all, a Scouser.
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Well if you accused me of being racist then yes, I would get very annoyed, but I don't see the relevance here.
I have an opinion that Angel got cut a lot of slack from the fans because he was seen as "our signing" because we did the whole £ sign thing etc. You don't.
I also think Gabby got far less stick than he might have got during his rather barren spell than he might have had if he hadn't been a local lad done good. Again, you don't.
Do you not think that some people might be swayed by such things? I know you aren't, you have made that very obvious, but I know for a fact that there are Villa fans who would love the likes of Grealish or Gardner to make it as Villa players because they are home grown, and if these players do get into the first team I will definitely forgive them a few bad games, certainly a few more than some bloke we might sign from Belgium (I remember Benteke getting pelters on the first couple of match threads after he signed).
I think it's probably best to take people's opinions at face value rather than undermining them by assuming they are swayed by other, rather silly, considerations.
See, I think it's pretty obvious that someone like Gabby, who is not blessed with great technical ability, wouldn't have become our record Premier League goal scorer without having used his considerable football brain to utilise what ability he does have efficiently. Then there are people who just assume black people are thick. But I can see that if I just make assumptions about posters based on these two things it could be rather insulting, so I just accept what you SAY you think about him and argue about that, rather than trivialising your opinion by implying it is based on some irrelevant shit that I've made up.
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Interesting that in the recent long interview with Dazzler, he thought JPA was his best strike partner at Villa Park and that they were split up too early.
Indeed. An effective partnership and part of the sixth-placed team that SGT took over and quickly turned into a shambles by dropping Angel, selling Boateng and picking that clown Enkelman. Even O'Clown got them back to sixth simply by replacing those two with McCann and Sorenson and picking Angel again.
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I was rather indifferent to Angel - thought he looked brilliant at times (that double one-two goal with Baros against Everton under O'Leary) but he pissed me off with sloppy penalties and too many very average displays. Never really thought of him as the fans signing. I do think there is relevance to the fact he wasn't offered much support by the club. In the same way Collymore's millions didn't make him immune to depression, neither would Angel's wedge have made him immune to home-sickness, missing his family, the stress of relocating to a different continent, the pressure of being a record signing and the massive worry of a sick child/wife. I don't think many would be on top of their game with all that going on.
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I was rather indifferent to Angel - thought he looked brilliant at times (that double one-two goal with Baros against Everton under O'Leary) but he pissed me off with sloppy penalties and too many very average displays. Never really thought of him as the fans signing. I do think there is relevance to the fact he wasn't offered much support by the club. In the same way Collymore's millions didn't make him immune to depression, neither would Angel's wedge have made him immune to home-sickness, missing his family, the stress of relocating to a different continent, the pressure of being a record signing and the massive worry of a sick child/wife. I don't think many would be on top of their game with all that going on.
You can see that and you're not a self-important moron who supported him more than the club? My, my, we are confounding the stereotypes today.
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Interesting that in the recent long interview with Dazzler, he thought JPA was his best strike partner at Villa Park and that they were split up too early.
Indeed. An effective partnership and part of the sixth-placed team that SGT took over and quickly turned into a shambles by dropping Angel, selling Boateng and picking that clown Enkelman. Even O'Clown got them back to sixth simply by replacing those two with McCann and Sorenson and picking Angel again.
As Paul Merson lamented at the time in a tone of astonished despair: "You don't replace George Boeteng with Mark Kinsella!".
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Well if you accused me of being racist then yes, I would get very annoyed, but I don't see the relevance here.
I have an opinion that Angel got cut a lot of slack from the fans because he was seen as "our signing" because we did the whole £ sign thing etc. You don't.
I also think Gabby got far less stick than he might have got during his rather barren spell than he might have had if he hadn't been a local lad done good. Again, you don't.
Do you not think that some people might be swayed by such things? I know you aren't, you have made that very obvious, but I know for a fact that there are Villa fans who would love the likes of Grealish or Gardner to make it as Villa players because they are home grown, and if these players do get into the first team I will definitely forgive them a few bad games, certainly a few more than some bloke we might sign from Belgium (I remember Benteke getting pelters on the first couple of match threads after he signed).
I think it's probably best to take people's opinions at face value rather than undermining them by assuming they are swayed by other, rather silly, considerations.
Isn't suggesting that "some" people are swayed by this or that, whatever, a different thing entirely to "assuming" people are, though?
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Nice Juan, son, let's have another Juan.
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Well if you accused me of being racist then yes, I would get very annoyed, but I don't see the relevance here.
I have an opinion that Angel got cut a lot of slack from the fans because he was seen as "our signing" because we did the whole £ sign thing etc. You don't.
I also think Gabby got far less stick than he might have got during his rather barren spell than he might have had if he hadn't been a local lad done good. Again, you don't.
Do you not think that some people might be swayed by such things? I know you aren't, you have made that very obvious, but I know for a fact that there are Villa fans who would love the likes of Grealish or Gardner to make it as Villa players because they are home grown, and if these players do get into the first team I will definitely forgive them a few bad games, certainly a few more than some bloke we might sign from Belgium (I remember Benteke getting pelters on the first couple of match threads after he signed).
I think it's probably best to take people's opinions at face value rather than undermining them by assuming they are swayed by other, rather silly, considerations.
Isn't suggesting that "some" people are swayed by this or that, whatever, a different thing entirely to "assuming" people are, though?
Semantics. Okay then. I think it's probably best to take people's opinions at face value rather than undermining them by suggesting they are swayed by other, rather silly, considerations.
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Nice Juan, son, let's have another Juan.
Shurely there can only be one Juan?
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Nice Juan, son, let's have another Juan.
Shurely there can only be one Juan?
Ah, Sean Connery and his Shpanish Acshent...
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Another thing that annoyed me about Angel was that he choose his one good season to be at the same time Crouch had started to look like a proper player, and as soon as we sold him he reverted to type.
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Well if you accused me of being racist then yes, I would get very annoyed, but I don't see the relevance here.
I have an opinion that Angel got cut a lot of slack from the fans because he was seen as "our signing" because we did the whole £ sign thing etc. You don't.
I also think Gabby got far less stick than he might have got during his rather barren spell than he might have had if he hadn't been a local lad done good. Again, you don't.
Do you not think that some people might be swayed by such things? I know you aren't, you have made that very obvious, but I know for a fact that there are Villa fans who would love the likes of Grealish or Gardner to make it as Villa players because they are home grown, and if these players do get into the first team I will definitely forgive them a few bad games, certainly a few more than some bloke we might sign from Belgium (I remember Benteke getting pelters on the first couple of match threads after he signed).
I think it's probably best to take people's opinions at face value rather than undermining them by assuming they are swayed by other, rather silly, considerations.
Isn't suggesting that "some" people are swayed by this or that, whatever, a different thing entirely to "assuming" people are, though?
Semantics. Okay then. I think it's probably best to take people's opinions at face value rather than undermining them by suggesting they are swayed by other, rather silly, considerations.
Well, semantics are surely quite important in this case? In terms of what you're accusing him of, there's a big difference, and if he'd actually assumed people liked Angel for that reason, I'd be on your side.
I just don't see it as meaning that.
"I think some people rate Gabby higher because he's a local lad" v "People rate him because he's a local lad".
I'd agree with the first, but not the second, as it's saying something totally different, surely?
Oh, I dunno.
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I bowed out of this last night before it got silly.
I'm still not entirely sure what I'm being accused of here, at no time have I said that anyone is definitely swayed by the local lad issue or the fact that Angel was possibly bought as a direct result of supporter action, just that I think that some people were.
I know for a fact that I have tended to support Gabby through his barren spells more than I would another player because he is local lad we bought through the youth system, maybe I'm unique in that but I doubt it.
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Another thing that annoyed me about Angel was that he choose his one good season to be at the same time Crouch had started to look like a proper player, and as soon as we sold him he reverted to type.
Again, to be fair there were two good seasons. 01/02 - 12 league goals and 4 in the cup and 03/04 - 16+7.
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As a person he seems a real nice bloke. But I can still never see past the 1 in 4 league ratio which is crap for a record singing striker in his prime years.
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I can't see past Percy's bollocks attack on Cooper. Unnecessary and unwelcome.
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As a person he seems a real nice bloke. But I can still never see past the 1 in 4 league ratio which is crap for a record singing striker in his prime years.
As with all strikers goals per minute is a much fairer yardstick due to sub appearances/being substituted skewing figures.
Gabby's record isn't probably all that better yet I think we're all agree he's a brilliant, boyband-pwning badass.
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I can't see past Percy's bollocks attack on Cooper. Unnecessary and unwelcome.
I felt my views on JPA's ability as a footballer were being misrepresented and dismissed as based on some sentimental guff about him being the fans' signing. Dave and I discussed it, but it became drawn out because he didn't get my point. Although strangely he seemed to understand okay when I asked him how he'd feel if his views on Gabby were misrepresented and dismissed as based on racism.
If you consider that an 'attack' you should get out more.
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But at no point did I say that you personally held those views, just that I believe some Villa fans did and probably still do.
I don't know why you decided this was some sort of personal attack on your views on Angel and Gabby, it wasn't and I can't see where you would infer that it was unless you think every comment that you disagree with is aimed at you?
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Fair enough Dave, it's just these views read like blanket generalisations sometimes.
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Fair enough Dave, it's just these views read like blanket generalisations sometimes.
I try not to do that, but if it came across wrong then sorry.
*virtual handshake*
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Fair enough Dave, it's just these views read like blanket generalisations sometimes.
I try not to do that, but if it came across wrong then sorry.
*virtual handshake*
Reciprocated of course.
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Another thing that annoyed me about Angel was that he choose his one good season to be at the same time Crouch had started to look like a proper player, and as soon as we sold him he reverted to type.
Again, to be fair there were two good seasons. 01/02 - 12 league goals and 4 in the cup and 03/04 - 16+7.
I'd agree with that. Looked a quality player at times during those two seasons. Unfortunately he couldn't produce that kind of performance at other times.
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I think he was shit and anyone who doesn't is a big jessie
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I think he was shit and anyone who doesn't is a big jessie
It's hard to argue with this.